The Kevin Sheehan Show - Thom's Te'o Review + Doc Walker

Episode Date: August 25, 2022

Kevin with Thom and Doc Walker today. Kevin and Thom talked Manti Te'o doc, Thom's mob-reporting days, Andrew Norwell's press conference, Maryland Basketball recruiting, and lots more. Then Doc jumped on for a ton of Commanders' analysis and some reluctant reminiscing about his days as a Rose Bowl champion at UCLA.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy is here with me to start. Doc will join me to finish the show. Doc is calling the game with Kenny Albert on Saturday night against the Ravens,

the preseason finale. By the way, Tommy, yesterday Ron Rivera sang about, you know, what he would do with the starters on Saturday. Saturday night against the Ravens. He said, very limited, very limited time for the starters and the preseason finale. I went back and looked at what he said last year. I think a lot of people took very limited as, oh, the starters are actually going to play some in the preseason finale. They didn't play at all in last year's preseason finale. Last year, when asked about the starters against the Ravens and the preseason finale, he said,

said, quote, the starters will play what we think they need to play, closed quote. My guess is the starters don't play at all on Saturday night. That's just a guess. He essentially led you to believe that there's a chance like he did last year, but last year he didn't play any of the starters. And my guess is that probably will be the case Saturday night, even though I don't think it should be the case. But go ahead.

But doesn't Washington want to break that preseason? winning streak for the Ravens? Don't they want to beat a team to break the streak? You know, you're going to hear... That was the question. You're going to hear... That was the question? Yes. Go ahead.

No, that what are you saying? That was the question to him? That was the question a couple of times this week to the coach. And to other players, actually. And what were their answers? Well, here's the best answer. Here's the best question. somebody asked Casey Two Hill

this was a question if they do win will they pour the Gatorade on head coach Ron Rivera somebody didn't ask that you're being serious somebody did no it's in the transcript and what was Two Hill's answer

I'm not usually in charge of that he said that's a good question I'm not sure I don't really handle Gatorade dumping responsibilities I'll tell you what, and this is in all seriousness. By the way, you're going to hear Doc later because I had to record Doc earlier this morning because, you know, he's a very busy guy. You have to, you got to definitely accommodate his schedule when you want to have him on,

which we always want to have him on. He's not always available. He's got many, many options. But, of course, with Doc, this would be a big, big opportunity, you know, to beat the belt to beat the Beltway bullies and their winning streak. If they actually beat Baltimore and they poured Gatorade on Ron Rivera at the end of that, that would become another mocking moment for this franchise. I mean, it would be.

It really would. And even if it was done with like a sense of humor like ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. It wouldn't matter because football fans around the world would say, oh my God, look at this. this loser of an organization. They're celebrating a preseason win with Gatorade over the coaches. Please, if anybody out there is listening, make sure you don't do that. I think don't do that.

I don't know. I think it would be kind of funny, too, if they actually did it to be funny. I don't think it would be received as anything other than there goes that dumbass organization doing dumb things again? You know, there is. There is an edge. Even in a preseason game, there is typically a little bit of an edge

between the Ravens and now the commanders. Remember a couple years ago, there was a big fight during a preseason game up there where actually Jay Grudman and John Harbaugh were on the field yelling at each other. Before the kickoff, yes. I do remember that. Yeah.

Yeah, so there's always a little bit of an edge. And let's not forget, I think it was 2014. This was the stadium where Robert Griffin III's career was buried. It really was, for all intents and purposes. In that preseason game, where I think he basically had seven downs and had no incompletions, three sacks. I mean, it just looked literally like a guy pulled out of the stands to play quarterback. And the debate would continue a little bit after that. And you could argue when his career ended.

You're not talking about 2013. Because 2013 was all in for week one. No, I'm talking about 2014. Oh, 2014. Okay, I thought you said 2013. Yeah. 2014 against the Ravens. I certainly remember the Detroit preseason game in 2015.

This is interesting. I don't remember the game you're talking. talking about. I'll try to see if I can find it again, but it was pretty bad. It's a pretty bad performance. I remember. There's always a little bit going on in a Ravens preseason game with this season. Okay.

I don't really think so. I don't, but you do have a couple of examples, but I just, I've never felt like the Ravens, like there's any rivalry to a game against the Ravens. By the way, the game that I remember specifically was the Detroit game, which really was Griffin's last salvo in D.C. It was 2015. We had not yet gotten the announcement. Kirk Cousins is going to be the starter for this season.

Because remember, in the moment, that was a bit of a shocker. But after that preseason game against Detroit, which turned into a disastrous performance for Griffin. The next week, Jay Gruden came out and said, Kirk Cousins is going to be the starter for this season. It wasn't just for the Baltimore game, the third preseason game. It was for this season. And that really ended up being a surprise thing.

And you knew then Griffin's days were numbered in D.C. I think his carcass was buried on the field. Emmett Pank Stadium in 2014 preseason when in his only appearance in the game, he had three sacks, one interception, and a 27.1 pass-a rating. Well, go to the 2014 season and find the game against the bucks. That was the game where literally, I'll never forget, Cooley's film breakdown was, I can't really give you a film breakdown of the offense. because Robert was so bad, I can't evaluate the other players.

And that was, he got sacked. I'm trying to find the box score right now. Give me a second. Because that was perhaps the last time he got a start for them, I think. Because I think after that they started, no, it was his next to last start. Sorry. And then he played at the very end of the year because Colt McCoy got hurt. The Tampa Bay game in 2014, Robert Griffin the 3rd had a 17.0 QBR.

He was 23 of 32, 207 yards, a touchdown, intercepted twice, sacked six times, and a 27-7 loss at home. And yeah, and then the next year was when, yeah, I mean, his last, the last, he only played in 2014. He never played, obviously, after that here. But, you know, Tommy, go ahead. Go ahead. I was going to say.

I will be there just on Saturday night to watch the festivities just in case some actual action does break out. The 2015 preseason, this is something I think I've shared before. I think, well, you won't remember because you don't remember anything. But I think I've shared this before. but on my way to FedEx Field for the preseason opener against Cleveland. This is now 2015, and there really aren't any necessary rumblings about Griffin being benched and Kirk Cousins winning the job. I mean, it was talked about as being an open competition for the job in 2015,

but I think still most people thought that Griffin would be given the chance, because obviously the relationship he had with the owner, etc. And I was on the phone talking to Mike Shanahan on my way out to FedEx Field. I forget what we were talking about, but he said something to me, and I'll never forget him saying this. He said, I really don't think that Robert's going to be in the league a year from now. And if he is, it will not be as a starting quarterback. He had no idea that Cousins was going to be named two weeks later or a week and a half later. Maybe he did as the starter because there were still a there was still a holdover or two from his staff. But I remember saying what? And he said, just remember I told you this.

I don't think Robert's going to be in this league a year from now. And if he is, it will be at best be as a backup, which was a shocking thing to say. But, you know, he obviously had conversations with various people and various teams. And Griffin did, you know, in 2015, I think was the year that he wasn't on a roster, or 2016, excuse me, I don't think he was on a roster. Then he was in Cleveland, or maybe he was in Cleveland in 2016, got injured. And then he, you know, was out a year. And then Baltimore signed him to be a backup for a couple of years, and then that was it. I mean, he wasn't exactly right, but he was pretty close to right. Yes, he was.

He was in Cleveland right after Washington. Yeah. That was where Jeff Darlington wrote the famous article where they did a workout with him, and he said, Darlington wrote, you could feel the earth move. It was so exciting. Did he really? I don't remember that. I don't remember that.

Oh, yes, he did. Anyway, enough about RG3 and preseason and the whole thing. I just wanted to point out, which started this conversation, is Rivera basically just, you know, in saying very limited, very limited, very limited, gave people the thought that maybe Carson Wenzell come out with the starters and play a series or two. And I'm just saying that last year, he left it open that the starters would play as well and they didn't play at all. I would guess that they're not going to play at all on Saturday night.

I hope they play. It would be a change for him. And, you know, we've seen super slow starts. You know, Rivera historically, as a head coach, has had slow starting teams, but very strong finishing teams. You're right. But this team this year can't afford a slow start. We've talked about this a lot. You can't lose to Jacksonville in the opener.

That would be disastrous on so many levels. A nuclear nightmare. A nuclear nightmare. So, you watched the Manti Teo documentary. What'd you think? It's riveting. It was unbelievable. And it was so confusing in terms of who are you more angry about?

Who do you blame? You know, I mean, there's so much going on in so many different directions. and there are so many villains. There's not a hero in the bunch, unless you want to think Deadspin is, and I can't bring myself to actually say Deadspin as hero because their whole purpose

was to just embarrass the media. So I'm not a big fan of that. So it was great, and it confirms what I know will never happen, but I think has to happen to save humanity. And that's the, the elimination of anonymity on the internet has to happen.

The elimination of anonymity on the internet. You can't, you can't, like let's say for Facebook where all this happened. You can't sign up for Facebook until you present proof of who you are. And you have to use your name. Otherwise, we'll just continue down this road of people, you know, threatening to kill people, behind anonymous names and conning people. I mean, enough people were being conned through the regular U.S. mail before we started the Internet. You know?

Now I'll bet you the victims of con games are through the roof because of this. And I'm not, look, I'm not railing against the Internet, and I know the Internet purists say you can't have this, I think that anonymity is really the biggest and dangerous thing on the web. I have no problem putting my name on every single thing I post. And I think everybody else should be held to the same standard. All right. Let's go back to who the biggest villain in this thing was. So if you had to choose, I mean, I think it's easy personally.

I mean, Rania, Tuias, Tius, so so. is the biggest villain. That person who is now transitioned was a horrible, horrible person. And wanted sympathy for his or her position. I'm sympathetic to him because obviously he was going through some very deep emotional issues at the time. I understand. It doesn't excuse what he did. It's not an excuse.

I mean, he should be. He is the biggest. villain, you know, in that. But I sort of kind of sympathize with his emotional state at that time. It does not give him, you know, a pass for what happened. You're right. He's the biggest villain. But there's no hero, I'm saying.

There's nobody who ran to the rescue. I mean, I just can't bring myself to say Deadspin did that. Well, the other thing also, I agree with you. Like you could have, you know, a human emotional kind of sympathy for what this particular person was going through with identity issues and in a culture where, you know, it was not going to perhaps be well received. But it got evil at the end. Like there has to become a time, as you know, you're going deeper and deeper where you are really hurting somebody. And then to me, the moment in which it became evil was when, you know, he brought the girlfriend back to life from the grave. And that just was horrendous.

And I don't want to spoil this for those that haven't watched it. But at that point, you know what you're doing, no matter what your mental state is, is wrong. wrong. Oh, look, you can know what you're doing. You can know what you're doing is wrong and still be really, you know, in any emotional mental state. I understand that.

But no, you're right. But that was a step that was completely unnecessary. Yes. Anyway, I, what did you? One of the things I told you right after I watched it is I feel for Man Taito and what he went through. I mean, his life in many ways, his professional life for sure, was impacted in a very negative way through all of this. And at the same time, while I have sympathy for the situation and understand that, you know, many people could have been had for a while anyway with this catfishing, you know, scam, I told you, I came away with, my God, he can't be the brightest bulb on the

Bush by a long shot. Like, I mean, they're just, how could you get taken for that long without seeing this person's face that you have supposedly fallen in love with? Not very bright.

Those are the people who use the web, who use these various social media sites, to control these kind of people, to victimize these kind of people.

There are people who live their lives based on what they read, you know, and what they read on Facebook and other social media outlets. So, yeah, I mean, I think you'd have to come away that he wasn't,

he wasn't very smart, wasn't very smart about this, and really, surprisingly, did not have anyone he could confide in. You know? I didn't have somebody who he could say, you know, this is going on here. What do I do?

Well, he had the one friend, you know, whose name escapes me, the guy that he played football with, that was very, at least according to him, was skeptical throughout. But, you know, he sensed that Man Taito had this relationship was falling in love. But he was skeptical. But you're right. Nobody stepped forward to say, dude, what are you doing? what do you mean she won't FaceTime you? What do you mean she won't see you?

What do you mean now she's, you know, she's, she was dead and now she's a lot, I mean, long before her dying and then coming back from the grave, I think most limited people would have figured out that something ain't right here after a few months. And he never did. And again, if you have a confidon, somebody. he's going to say, okay, show me what's going on here. Sign on. Let me see what's going on here. Okay. You know? I mean, that was kind of interesting that he really didn't have a close friend or close family member. And I said maybe that's part because of expectations because he was, he was considered such a football god that there really was no one who could relate to him. But he didn't have a good friend.

He may have had friends, and that guy may have been skeptical, but he didn't help him. No, and the parents were skeptical. Certainly they were, but they didn't necessarily help. And, you know, the one thing that you could say in his defense is he had a cousin that vouched for this woman, you know? So there was, you know, didn't know that he was vouching for this particular woman. that didn't exist. But anyway, yeah, real quickly, and we'll wrap this part of the show up.

I'm glad you liked it. I thought you would like it. Did Liz watch it with you? Yes, she did. She liked it a lot, too. I mean, it's a documentary that goes beyond football. Yeah, and it was well told, I thought. It's a much bigger issue.

I thought it was well told, considering how complex the whole thing was. Yes. Yes, it was. So what do you say about Deadspin? What do you think their motive was? Well, I mean, their motive was, again, I've always told you this. And I'm thinking even these two Yahoo's on Deadspin, the one guy who's a computer genius, apparently, I should make fun of them. And I enjoyed the reporter from Deadspin talking.

He was pretty kind of funny. Yeah. You know, he was kind of a joke. But it's always about the story. I mean, for most reporters I've ever met, and I'm speaking about writing, reporters who write for a living, it's about the story. That's the agenda. The agenda is getting the story. If you happen to embarrass ESPN in the process, that's ultimately their goal.

But they really was motivating them was they had a story that no one else had. Exactly. This idea that they were, you know, that the motivation was to make ESPN in the NEWSPN in the NEWR. York Times look horrendous for not fact-checking this story. That's not the motivation. The motivation for this guy, Tim Burke and, you know, the other guy, Jack, whatever his name was, was to break a story that was this incredible story because all season long, the death of Manti-Tio's grandmother and then girlfriend within, you know, a few hours of each other was an incredible heartbreaking story. And then the rest of the season took on a life of its own.

because of it. They didn't, I don't think that they really and truly cared about exposing ESPN or the New York Times. In a way, that was the purpose of Deadspin to kind of stick their thumb in the eye of mainstream media. Right. And that doesn't appeal to me, but it appealed to a lot of people. Deadspin was very popular. And I think that was basically the motivation of the entity.

but I think those guys said, hey, we got a story, a big story that no one else is going to have. And again, this is what I say to people who think there's some kind of, you know, agenda behind all kinds of reporting. Most of the time, I'm not saying all the time, but most of the time, it's the story. It's the thrill of having the story. Right. I guess part of the controversy with Deadspin at the time in breaking the story was and I know that this is obviously always a consideration. You know this more than anybody. That there's the amount of time that's considered to be fair to give this subject a chance to respond with the concern of being.

beaten to the punch by a competitor. Did they give Manteo enough time to respond before they just went with the story? Well, considering the Washington Post called John Mitchell, maybe a few minutes before they were about to go to press. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Oh, Katie Graham is going to get her tit caught in the ringer. In the ringer. I know. So look, the last call you, the last call you. always make is to the subject that you're trying to expose. It's always the last call. And you really have that concern is you don't want to give them enough time to circle the wagons. How many times have you made that call? How many times have you made that call? Oh, I don't know. Dozens of the time. So is there any, is there a memorable story of you

getting ready to break a story, a really good story, and calling the. the main figure in the story right before you're about to let it go for a comment. And, I mean, do you have anything that comes to mind? Not particularly. I mean, I was writing when I was at the Baltimore Sun, I was writing a story about a mobster turned informant, who was actually both. He was a mobster, con-ard, or sent an informant.

And he was in federal, he was in state, he was in city prison in Baltimore. I mean, he was a low-level mob guy. His nickname was Tony Limow because he was a limo driver for a while for some of these guys. But a lot of these drivers wind up becoming big mob bosses eventually. This guy didn't. And he called me at the Baltimore Sun Newsroom from Baltimore City Jail. And basically threatened me if I wrote the – if I published the story. And the story was ready to go.

But that's a different thing. What was the story? The story was the story, the story was about him? Yeah, it was about him. He had, this guy was an unbelievable con man. He had conned a guy who owned an airline out in Cumberland, Maryland. You've told me the story now. Now I remember the story, but go ahead.

Go ahead, yeah. Yeah, and he had done so much more. He had been all across the country conning people out of money. But, and I was the one who broke this big story about him. He actually con the guy. He almost bought Granth Airlines with nothing. That's how good of a con man this guy was. Yeah.

You know? So, but no, I don't have anything that comes to mind where I had to call somebody at the last minute. Usually they say, I'll get back to you. Sometimes where they say, I have no comment. You know, and get back to you. You let them know. We're going to press in a couple of hours. Is there another part to this story, like after the story aired?

What happened after the story aired with this guy? Oh, nothing. No, he was all talk. Okay. He was all talk. Maybe I'm thinking about something else. He didn't want to be exposed while he was in jail because he was in Genpop. And he was trying to get information.

Genpop, meaning general population? Yes. Yeah. He was there to basically try to get information to try to use to his advantage, you know, to rat on somebody. Right. And if I exposed him, they'd have to put him in protective custody. Did they? They'd have to take him out of Gentop. I don't know. I don't know what happened.

You don't really know what happened with old Tony Limo? I don't remember. I don't remember. He eventually died. He did? You know, yeah. He eventually passed on. What was his actual last name? Anthony Saravola. Google it. He's in a famous Supreme Court case where he,

Fulminanti versus Sarevaux or Sarevaux versus Fulminanti, a huge Supreme Court case involving the use of jailhouse informants. He was in jail in Arizona. How do you spell his last name? S-A-R-A-S-A-R-I-V-O-L-A. Anthony Saravoa. Okay. I mean, he's all over the law books for this particular Fulminante case,

where he informed on the guy in a murder case, actually. And he always did that. And here's the thing, while he was doing all this, he was a federal, under federal witness protection program. While he's going around the country, conning people left and right, he was under the federal witness protection. So he was protected. after time by the feds.

Wow. Fight the character. But that adds nothing to do with this. Oh, here's your story. I just found it. Even the trial of federal witness Anthony Saravola bears secrets by Tom Levero,

Baltimore's son, June 24th, 1991. The day in court... That's a follow-up to the big story. Oh, right. follow up. Okay. Yeah. Well, maybe I can find

the big story as well. Well, let's move on. Should we move on? Why are you fearful that something may happen? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because this is worth this is worth an entire show. So, I mean, if you really want to talk

about someday, I'll send you a full story and we could talk about it. Do you remember what family he worked for? You know, I think he worked for Sonny Franzis. Michael Franzis, a young, powerful member you wrote of the Colombo family. Who wound up. Michael Francis is so famous.

Yes, right. Because he basically, he went clean. He basically went straight. Yes, I've seen this. And now I just Googled his face. I've seen him on TV. Yes, he's a big-time mob consultant for media and stuff. Right.

And he speaks, I think he speaks to basketball teams and football teams about gambling. Exactly. He was the son of a ruthless mob boss named Sonny Francis, who was in jail at the time. I think he, now we know that, what's his face from Goodfellas, you know. Henry Hill. Henry Hill was a big part of the whole. a Boston College gambling, you know, a scheme back in the 80s. And for whatever reason, I'm wondering if this guy, Franzis, was part of that as well.

I'm trying to look it up. I think he was. I think he may have been as well. Yeah. Now you could have Michael Franzis on your podcast, I think, if you wanted it. I think, you know what we should do? We should do a podcast where we do Fransisse and then we do your interview with Jonathan Banks right afterwards, which I listen to.

and it was excellent. And Tommy, by the way, gave me a thumbs up on playing that on the podcast. And I'm going to do that probably next week. It was an excellent interview. For those of you that are fans of Jonathan Banks from Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, he's from here. And it was an excellent conversation. By the way, I could tell, you know, very rarely with you over the years,

have I, and I'm not talking about the Brooklyn Decker thing, where you were just completely flummoxed with her beauty. I'm talking about very rarely have I ever sensed that you were excited about an interview. You were excited about that interview. You were really happy to be talking to Jonathan Banks. Yes, I've been a big fan since his wise guy days. Yeah. You know, and what's interesting about that is as we continue to drive.

the bumper car all over the podcast. Right, well, whatever. What's interesting about that is I started watching Better Call Saul again. Yeah, you told me that. His character, Mike Erment Trump, is so much, there's so much more to him early in the show. I mean, you find out the whole story about how he was a Philly cop and how his son, you know, was killed by these cops because he was going to, he's going to say that. They were corrupt, and then Mike shot these two Philly cops.

All that is in the first year of the show. Right. And you kind of forget that because I think in the end, the last year. Don't tell me. I haven't gotten through, a midway through season four. I'm just going to say that he is more of, I don't know how you would describe it, at Albaton, you know, kind of like there's not a lot going on with Mike. in the last season of the show. And I know you have a limited amount of time to devote to characters,

but he had much more going on in the show early in Better Call Saul, and he's so good at it. He's so good at it. I mean, I'll tell you what, I just watched was the episode where, you know, he's at that church, you know, help group, and he calls out that fraud in the middle of one of the, you know, one of those sessions. And, you know, his daughter-in-law really got upset with him. And the new friend, I don't know if she develops into a girlfriend, because I have not watched the rest of season four and I still have season five to go.

I don't know. He's, let me just say this. And we'll end the bumper car session of the podcast. he was such a nice guy in the interview with you. Like he was not, you know, you and I both know that sometimes when you end up getting somebody like that on, you know, it's just their intent is just to give you something quickly and then to move on. He was genuinely nice and giving and appreciative and it was just a very nice conversation, especially

Well, thank you. But I'm complimenting you, of course, but I'm also, you know, he, you never know what these people are like in real life, and he came off as incredibly likable. Yes. Yeah. Okay. A regular guy who just happens to be a great actor.

And from here. You know, one of the things he mentioned, by the way, he grew up in PG County. His mother was a teacher at Northwood in Montgomery County, which is why he ended up. up going to that school. But he grew up in Chillam in Chillam Heights, which I think is, you know, that's kind of PG County near College Park, you know, Greenbelt, etc.

It's that area, right, is where Chillam is. Pretty sure. So he grew up in P.G. County. His mother worked for the CIA. Yes. And then, but I'm sorry, she worked for the CIA, but she did something with Northwood High School. getting what it was. Was it his, he got to, he went to Northwood because his mother or,

because he grew up in a one parent household just with his mother. And now I'm forgetting why he went to Northwood, because his mother worked for the CIA, but he said something about his mother doing something with Northwood High School. Or maybe it was his, well, this is why people will have to listen to your show when you hear the podcast. Yeah. It was a very nice interview. I'm going to, I'm going to put that as part of the podcast next week. Okay. Let's get off the bumper cars and let's go to the haunted house. Let's take another ride. I want to talk about Ted Leonis and the interest that he has in purchasing the nationals

and another team that's quasi-local. We'll get to that. And Andrew Norwell, the starting guard for the Washington commanders, had one of the more interesting press-commen. conferences following a practice that I've ever heard. We'll get to that and a few more things when we come back right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Doc Walker is coming up in the next segment.

We'll do Tommy and I one more segment here together. And I wanted to start with this because, you know, we've talked about before these daily press conferences after practices, especially during training camp, what the Washington Commanders Public Relations Group does is they, Ron Rivera speaks, and then they usually provide two players. And then I think there's a weekly commitment for Scott Turner and Jack Del Rio. There is when the regular season starts. Yesterday, one of the players that they provided was Andrew Norwell, the guard who Washington signed during the offseason. The guards on this team are going to be brand new.

They did not, you know, choose to extend branded. Sheriff or franchise him again, and they will see Brandon Sheriff, by the way, in the opener. He's a Jacksonville Jaguar. And they got rid of Eric Flowers. Eric Flowers, they let go as well. So, Norwell, who was, you know, a Panther and was a big signing by the Panthers, is here in D.C. I'm going to play his press conference yesterday, which the total amount of time is probably

the shortest you will ever see. It was two minutes and 39 seconds. we're going to pick it up with the second question, and the question you'll hear is about Brandon Sheriff and him replacing Brandon Sheriff, and then you'll hear the rest of the two minutes, and then I want Tommy to respond to this, as will I. Here's what it sounded like yesterday with Andrew Norwell.

When you're joining a new team, and obviously Brandon Sheriff, you're kind of flipping places, how much do you feel, I don't know, an obligation, but a pressure to kind of do what he did here for this team given kind of what you guys have done both in your careers? Next question. How good as an offensive line can you guys be? I mean, obviously it's new pieces and all that,

but what can you guys do as a group? Just come together as a unit and work hard every day. And, yeah, it's got it. What's your opinion of Carson when? So what have you learned about Carson as kind of a quarterback and really as a leader more than anything else? Yeah, he goes to work every day. He's the same guy.

and displays a lot of leadership out there. I'm sure they may have I already asked you, but when you've had to miss time with a new, not so much a new system maybe, but a new group of guys, what's the adjustment period for you when you come back? What was your question again? When you're coming back after missing a little bit of time

and, you know, just during camp, what's the adjustment period for you like when you come back, considering it's a new group of guys? Just, you know, just do my job, you know, just focus on myself and do my job. And when you're watching, I know you're not watching Brian Robinson during a game. But when you're, I guess when you're watching film with him,

what stands out about him as a running back to you? You know, he hits the holes when they're open. And, you know, he comes to work every day. Oh, what's it been like blocking for a guy like Brian Robinson and a young running back? It's been great, you know. They've got a great group of guys in that room. And, you know, I look forward to blocking for every one of them.

Well, some of the things about Brian Robinson's, like, Rohing style specifically, they, like, have stuck out to you. You know what? I'm just here to talk about myself. So, thanks. How has the adjustment been for you to a new team and all that? It's been great, you know. It's just my job to do it.

And just come to work every day and be the same guy. All right, thanks. I mean, Tommy, have you ever heard a shorter, conference. I mean, we've had a lot of interviews, live interviews on radio that we had to get out of quickly because the person we were interviewing wasn't much for, you know, lengthy answers or not really into it. But that was kind of funny, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. I mean, it was kind of reminiscent of some of our Pierre Garsohn segments that we used to pay him for. Yeah, well, that was after he made a headline. for. Yeah. After he actually said something and got in trouble for it, this was pretty much a

Pierre-Garsone interview after that. God, that was painfully too. Yes. Yeah. But, I mean, you know, I love the answer about Brian Robinson. I mean, somebody was obviously, there's one, two, three, Brian Robinson's stories that are also. Some poor guy in that media tent is doing a story about Brian Robinson. and looking for anything he can get. And he wasn't getting it from Andrew Norwell who said, you know what?

I'm just here to talk about myself. But he wasn't there to talk about himself. He didn't want to talk about himself. He didn't want to talk about anything. No. I think it's one of those things where you have to watch it too, because I don't know anything about Andrew Norwell. I don't know if he has given great interviews before,

but maybe that second question about Brandon Sheriff may have pissed him off when he said next question. Like, you know, like it was a gotcha question, which of course it wasn't. But I think if you watch it, like there was something likable about him and watching him come up with the shortest possible answer to end this as quickly as he could.

By the way, I don't care about this stuff. Like, I'm not being critical of him at all. I want to make sure people are clear on this. There are people that are totally uncomfortable doing this. And I don't know if he was uncomfortable or if this was his intent. And maybe the Brandon Sheriff thing, you know, where he said, next question. You know, like if he feels pressure to live up to Brandon Sheriff's, you know, tenure here in Washington, next question. Maybe that set them off. I don't know. Maybe we'll get a much longer interview with Norwell.

And maybe I should have gone back and heard the interview because I'm sure he was interviewed after he was signed here as a free agent. But, you know, they're just, you're not going to have, you know, 90 players or 80 players now on a roster and soon to be 53. Most of them, what I have found over the years, don't make for compelling interviews. Most of them, like the significant majority. And when you find the players that really are good talkers and are engaging, you know, those are the ones that are worth putting on the air. I don't know, should the PR people have known that this was not going to be a very good hit with Norwell or not? I don't know. I think it may have just been his turn, you know?

Yeah. It just may have been his turn in the box. He certainly didn't make any headlines, that's for sure. No, and you know what? This will probably be the only interview he does all year. I hope he's a good player. You know, he signed that big deal a few years ago in Carolina. It was the largest deal ever signed for a guard at the time.

And then he wasn't very good last year, which is why he was available for basically a song. And they need him to be good. The one thing, though, is he's back with the guy that coached him in John Matzco. And so, you know, you'll hear Doc talk about Matscoe in the next segment. He's really a highly respected position coach in this organization. And maybe Norwell, you know, who's only 30 years old. I mean, he's got a couple of years left.

But, you know, Washington got him for, you know, basically what they paid Eric Flowers last year. Half of what they paid Eric Flowers, I think, last year. So anyway, I know you. Okay. Here's what. When he got hired, when he got signed, he had much more to say. He did. He did. He said, quote, I'm fired up to be a commander.

I'm just looking forward to this opportunity. It's really, and his familiarity, he was asked about being familiar with Rivera and Mattoe, were key components in signing with the commanders. Norwell said, it's really big. being familiar with the coaching, being able to go in day one and start those relationships again, build them even stronger, and contribute to this team, I'm just fired up and looking forward to it. Well, that's, well, somebody should have asked him more about his offense, his position coach. Yeah, I would have gotten him going.

Yeah, well, I mean, in knowing that now, maybe it was that sheriff question that just really upset him. Yeah, here's another question answer. Somebody asked him about Rivera. The way to coach treats his players, he's very, very consistent. He gives everybody an opportunity. He gave me an opportunity when I was a rookie, and I'm very fortunate that I made the most of that opportunity. I'm excited to be back.

So, I mean, it could have been that question. It could have been. I mean, I, I, I guess, you know, God, we had kind of this conversation about Scott Abraham asking Carson once, you know, a question about whether or not this is going to be his last opportunity to be a starter in the NFL. But the way he introed it, you and I both agreed it wouldn't have been the way that we introed it. And thinking about, you know, feeling pressure about living up to, you know, Brandon Sheriff's tenure in Washington, you know, Norwell there for a brief moment in time when he signed, you know, what,

was the biggest deal in the history of the league for a guard back in 20, I think it was 2014, 2017, something like that. Whatever it was, he signed a massive deal, you know, in the moment. Maybe he just felt, maybe he feels like he's at the level of Brandon Sheriff. What do you mean? You're getting Andrew Norwell. And he didn't want to answer it that way because it would have seemed, you know, self-promotional. So he just said, next question. And, Maybe that did set them off. Okay, well, that's good to know. Maybe the next interview will be better.

I think you need to have them on your show. I'm going to shoot for it. And the first question I'm going to ask is, was Brandon Sheriff overrated? All right. So what did you want to say about the... We talked briefly the other day about, you know, monumental sports and taking over NBC sports. Washington. And now it's been reported that Ted and monumental sports, along with David Rubinstein from the Carlisle Group, are basically putting a bid together to buy the Washington Nationals.

But a part of the story says that the two of them have also told key backers of the Baltimore Orioles that they would consider buying that team if it comes up for sale as well. So your reaction to this is what? Well, what's interesting is Ted has connections with both teams. I mean, he's a partner already with Mark Lerner. Mark Lerner owns a piece of monumental sports. He's a minority partner in that organization. So they're already partners, and there is a guy behind the scenes who is both a

confidon of Ted Leoneses and Peter Angelo's. Let me just double-check something here. And I mean, Elway has been in the past, at least. And that's George Stamis. Right. Okay.

Very behind-the-scenes power broker in this town, and in Baltimore as well. He's been an Angelo's confidon, and he's been a Ted confidon. And at all, I mean, the three of them have this, let's face it, this Greek connection. Of course. Okay?

Yeah. You know? So it doesn't surprise me that Ted would be in touch with the people who own the Orioles, say Angelo's family, whatever. And it doesn't surprise me that he would let them know that, you know, if the Orioles happen to become for sale, he'd be interested in them. And this is going to be the interesting thing, because they could wind up being on the market at the same time.

And the Orioles are not going to be for sale until Peter Angelo's passes away. Well, the nationals are for sale right now. Yes, they are. Yes, they are. And despite all the reports that this is going to happen quick, I tend not to believe that. But, I mean, the other thing I didn't know about, because I don't know, David Rubinstein from Adam, if he's a Baltimore guy, apparently. So the interest in the Orioles is. certainly understandable.

And that was the Sportico piece of information that wasn't in, I don't believe, anyplace else. So I thought that was pretty interesting. And it's going to be interesting to watch how both teams' futures unfold. David Rubinstein, just as a quick aside, is an excellent interviewer, excellent interviewer on that peer-to-peer show, which I've watched a few times. Interesting. He is worth billions as well. Yes.

So, you know, they certainly have the ability to do this. Which team is more attractive as a purchase? The Orioles or the Nationals? I think the Nationals are. I think they're worth more. Yeah. Because of the market size. Yeah, the market size, and I think the Capitol Hill proximity gives it a little bit of push. I really think it does.

I mean, if you use it right, if you're a smart owner, it should help you, you know? And both teams have very secure stadium deals in place. I think the Orioles are about to secure their new lease, if they haven't already. And the nationals, I think, have another 18 or 17 years to go on this. their lease. So their stadium deals are pretty secure. And, you know, people who think that the Orioles are going to move to Nashville because John Angelo's lives in Nashville, that's absurd. They're not moving the Orioles. Okay? That Camden Yards is considered one of the prized ballpark still in all baseball,

the park that changed baseball. They're not going to move a major league team out of there for a lot of reason. Chelsea Janes wrote about it a few weeks ago, and there's a story from yesterday from Barry and Chelsea and Ben Strauss in the Post about some of the other potential bidders for the team. Let's not forget, too, what we talked about the other day, which is, you know, the Leonis-Rubenstein bid would now also include a built-in network that they own. NBC Sports Washington.

You would have to clear up the Massen thing first. They have a network right now. I know. Okay. That's a complication. Is it a complication or is there an out? I mean, I don't, how long are they locked into Massen for? It's a complication.

Okay. Five bidders. And I don't see how you can sell the nationals without that complication being fixed. Five other bidders have met. with Nationals officials, according to this post report. Billionaire Michael B. Kim. He's got a private equity firm that manages more than $25 billion in assets. He met with the team earlier this summer.

Mortgage mogul Stanley Middleman and are the two other names that are mentioned here among five potential bidders. No, they're not. That's it. That's the only ones they mention. didn't mention the other ones. No, I just said. It's five potential, but these are the ones that they mentioned in the report. Medellman and Michael B. Kim, and then, of course, Leonas and Rubinstein. So three of the five, I don't know who the other two are. Now, front office sports had reported what I've been saying

all along that Larry Lekino is one of the interested parties in this team. And, you know, I have no, I could be wrong. I'm not saying this is a. done deal or this is the way it's going to happen. But I'd be surprised if I are Lekino doesn't wind up as the owner of the Washington Nationals. Okay. A couple of things just to

wrap it up with Tommy on and then we'll get to Doc. Number one is big headline in the NFL this morning. Tyron Smith, the outstanding left tackle for the Cowboys, may be done for the significant part of the upcoming season

with a torn hamstring. That's big news in the NFC East. Remember, the Cowboys did draft Tyler Smith from Tulsa in the first round to eventually become the left tackle replacement for Tyron Smith. They've used him, by the way, during camp at left guard. So we'll see what happens. But that's a big loss in the NFC East with the Cowboys. Secondly, Chet Holmgren, who was the number two selection in the NBA. draft in June. He has a Liss-Frank injury that he suffered the other day to his right foot. He's going to miss the entirety of the upcoming season. The other thing I wanted to mention, and Tommy, this is for you to respond to as well, if you want to, is I just wanted to say that

Kevin Willard, the head coach at Maryland, the new head coach at Maryland, is killing it from a recruiting standpoint. Maryland got a big commitment last night from Deshawn Harris Smith. Deshawn Harris Smith plays for PVI. That's Paul the 6th in Northern Virginia, part of the WCAC, the best high school basketball conference in the country. He's the number 39 player in America per 247 Sports.com. This follows Maryland's signing of Jamie Kaiser a few weeks ago,

a top 50-ish player in the country, but rising rapidly. Kaiser also played in the WCAC at. Bishop Iyerton, but is going to play his senior year at IMG Academy in Florida. That followed Maryland signing Jonathan Lamoth, a player out of Baltimore. Maryland's class for 2023 right now is a top 10 class, and he's not done yet. Willard isn't done yet. There's still another player or two that they could land that could give Maryland one of its highest-ranked recruiting classes in school history. The last time they had a top 10 class,

which is what they have right now, was 2018 when Turgeon recruited Jalen Stick Smith out of Baltimore. Aaron Wiggins was in that class, Eric Iala. That was the last top 10 class. Turgent had some, you know, consistent top 20, top 25-ish, top 30-ish classes. But this is huge for Maryland basketball fans. And it's huge because the three players recruited so far are all local players. And that follows the big transfer they got during the transfer portal portion of this offseason for the upcoming year, Jemir Young. The guy who played at Charlotte last year, who has a chance to be, will be more likely than not, Maryland's starting point guard and will be one of their leading scores probably along with Dante Scott. and Hakeem Hart.

The Terps aren't supposed to be great in Willard's first year. They've been predicted anywhere from, you know, I've seen as high as sixth in the big 10 to 10th in the big 10. But right now, their 2023 recruiting class, Willard's first full-fledged class is a top 10 class already, ranked eighth right now by 247 Sports.com and could go higher. So that's big news. I mentioned Jamir Young, by the way, because he went to Damascus. before signing with Charlotte and now transferring to Maryland for his senior years.

So Maryland basketball fans be excited about what's going on right now here early in the Kevin Willard tenure from a recruiting standpoint. Big news last night with the signing of Deshawn Harris Smith. Did you have any questions about this, Tommy? Or any thoughts? No, I have no questions about that, except it all sounds familiar. that's the only thing I have to say about that. What do you mean?

Recruiting and. It sounds familiar. And keeping the best players at home? No. It sounds like I heard the same things about Turgeon. So it just sounds familiar, that's all. Well, but Turgeon only had one top 10 recruiting class in his tenure there. Willard's first class is going to be a top 10 class with all local kids.

Okay. All right. Let's have a party. Doc Walker up next right after these are words. Let me just say something. It's an honor to be able to open the hole that Doc Walker can run through. You know what? Great block number 66.

Good job. We got to get you to the Hall of Fame. Doc next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, this segment of the podcast is presented by MyBooky. Go to mybooky.com, mybooky.orgie. a g use my promo code kevin dc and they'll double your first deposit all the way up to a thousand dollars very few shops are doing that they're doubling your first deposit you deposit a thousand bucks you'll have two thousand in your account to gamble with my bookie dot com my bookie dot a g fair lines

fair pricing you get paid when you win uh washington right now a three point favorite in the opener against Jacksonville on September 11th. My guest, my good friend, Richard Doc Walker, joins us right now. And even though you've been doing these preseason games and you've been at every practice, you've got your eyes on September 11th, Jacksonville, when it counts. And that's always kind of your mindset. Good morning, by the way. And I heard you were killing me on my own radio show this morning.

No, I was promoting the fact that you take more vacation. I'm Johnny Carson, and I'm like, oh. And no, it really is. And you and Neil, you've got your attorney with you, and you guys are just baiting people into litigation. And I think it's smooth. I love it. But we, as your listeners, we are diehard.

We just have to wait until you come back. And I asked them if you were in or out of the country. And, you know, were you on a boat? Were you stationary? Hey, man, I'm not hating. I'm proud of you. You know, it's just, it's just, It's such bullshit when you say that.

And this is like an every summer thing. When I take a few days off, you do the same thing to me every year. It's basically been going on for 10, 15 years. I don't want to be. I depend on you every day. And I would watch you at the end of the year. We'd get to late December and you'd be, I've got three days left. I'm going to use them all.

I would never. I never used all my vacation days, ever. I never cheat. people. I never teach the people. You're right. And so you, you know, the management is the only reason I'm not on every day.

By the way, Doc, as everybody knows, has a podcast with Solly, which you can get at patreon.com slash Doc Walker. Doc is doing radio for the next, I don't know what your radio schedule is. Maybe you've got a couple of days off, but he

has been filling in for Craig Hoffman on 980, the station that for all intents and purposes dock built from scratch. So I'm excited about that, and I listened a little bit yesterday, and it was great, as always. But seriously, September 11th, this is always, I know you get really excited and you're putting out all the videos on all the young pups and the guys that are trying to make those last few roster spots, but you're always dialed in on the games that count in the opener. Yeah, but I'm also dialed in.

There's an opportunity to snap a streak. The Ravens have a 22-game, three-season game streak. And don't you think that that, to me, that's like the pinata. I got to take a swing at it. It wouldn't be me if I didn't want to take a swing at that. And so after the game, the gun goes off at M&T, then, my friend, I'm with you 100% I'm totally focused on

Jacksonville but for right now it's just unnatural for me not to want to go out and especially with the possibilities of a Ravens rivalry

yeah count me in yeah but you don't think that Ron Rivera is thinking that way right it's not important for him to end the Ravens preseason winning streak no well I think it is but I just don't think he can

admit it. Really? Down inside? Oh, yeah. I think he'd love it, but he can't admit it. See, it's like, it's like, Ron's a big pitcher guy.

I'm not. You know, he's thinking about the future and protecting it. I'm not. I mean, and that's why he's a head coach and I'm not. But I do have the right to go into this

to think that, like when the Orioles in the Nats play, it's on. I mean, to me, it's like, If we don't have some way of rivalry or getting ourselves into something to be competitive, see, you always have an interest in it because you're the house. But for the rest of us, it's like, what else are we going to do? I'm not the house.

I'm on the wrong side. I'm on the opposite side of the house. Well, I don't buy that for a moment. But anyway, trust me, I'm not the house. Okay, well, I'm into this game Saturday. And I just want to find that what we made up. Why do you do this? You know, I love you dearly, but this game is a preseason game.

You and I, you because you played in it, me because I was a fan of it, we know what real rivalries look and feel like. Walking into Robert F. Kennedy Stadium for a Monday night game against the Cowboys. Don't direct me back into that. I mean, don't do that. walking into Cole or X-Finity for a game against Duke. That's a rivalry. My favorite, though, was when you and I, because I'm pretty sure we did this game together, you and I went to that game seven between the Caps and the Penguins.

Oh, my God. The one that we love? One of Ovechkin's first big games, and you and I walked into the suite, which we had, which was the company suite. I don't know, it was probably Doc Sweet. and it was 4 to nothing in the first five minutes. Pittsburgh. And the place was so lit. It was lit and then all of a sudden it was basically dead. It was over in like 10 minutes.

Oh, my God. There was a game that we lost to the Flyers. And the beauty about hockey, and I know you and I care about it, but it's that when you lose sudden, and when the puck hits the net and it's over. Yeah. It's so sudden. It goes from your, it's just amazing.

I sat in that arena for like 45 minutes. I could not move. But again, the fact that they at least put us in that position. No, I know that. It just don't suck. No, but. Yeah, just don't. We're not even been in contention here in a mighty long while.

Yeah, we had the, the, the playoff deal, they went down and got to play Tampa and have convinced themselves that they were in the game, which is a joke. The team has 500 yards, a total offense against you. You act like you were in it and could have won it.

But, you know, romance yourself any way you want to. All I'm saying is that there's not a lot of our fan base that can remember the last time we were really good. And all, but I do, I have a really good memory. And all I'm saying is that this is all I get now. I got one shot, it's Saturday.

And I know it matters the hardball. It matters to them. I watched their game against Arizona. So the final second, because I was thinking, well, maybe Arizona can pull this off because they came back. And I know it's important. What game are you talking? What are you talking about?

Ravens, Ravens. A card-dose. A pre-season game. Yeah. See, I got, okay. You don't take it seriously. I think it's... This is my life.

This is what I do. I want to go back to what you said about the Tampa playoff game. It is so funny how there has been an incredible revisionist history about this game, as if Washington, like, somehow had Tampa on the ropes. And Tampa, if they... Tampa barely got through Washington and then went on to win the Super Bowl. And Washington was right. They gave up 507 yards.

And in that game, Chris Godwin, remember, dropped about six balls right in his hands. All right. Let's talk some X's and O's. Burgundy and Gold. I love doing that as we did it for 14 years together on the pregame show. We'll do it again. Just hang in there. We'll do it again.

We'll do it again. I want to ask you something. You know, you have been out there. single day. You're calling the preseason games and Doc will be on the call with Kenny Albert again on Saturday night, NBC Sports Washington. After, by the way, being banished from the place for a year and a half or whatever it was. Disgustingly. Solitary confined. So my question to you is, now that you've seen this operation up close, are they well coached or not? Yes, they are. Yes, they are. What they are not,

geared towards, and that is winning the game, because they're taking an approach like you are, that their target is Jacksonville. And so we won't know until Jacksonville whether or not it works. Can't blame my guy. They made it very clear. They don't care about it. None of this.

All they're doing is trying to get through it. I don't understand how a non-playoff team can develop itself with the attitude that they have, but that's their prerogative to do it. I'm more in line to think of like Detroit is who they are, and they're trying to change that narrative. So you've got to push the envelope. Have you been watching hard knocks? Oh, my God.

Yeah, because I got to see some real football. I haven't seen anybody tackle anybody where I'm at. Actually, I've watched an episode and a half. It's kind of entertaining. Campbell's entertaining. He's a big dude. I had no idea he was that big. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it's beyond entertainment, it's the seriousness in which you've got to teach people. They have to fight, and it's physical, and you tackle, and it's all out. Now, there's always a risk in that, how else do you prepare? How can a fighter pilot train if you didn't. go up there and go for it. NASCAR, they burn rubber. That mean, they do it at the highest level, prepared for it.

But the NFL, not just this team, but a lot of them have this philosophy that they're almost like they're scared to death that everybody's going to die at practice. And they're not going to have a team. So, we just got to wait it out.

But sooner or later, somebody's going to have to judge the results of their approach. And if it's good, enough for the people that's paying them, then it's good enough for me. So there's nothing I can do about it. I know. You held hostage with this. What I really want to get to is, you know, you have, you, you know what good coaching is. You know what good tempo at a practice is.

You know what good organization looks like. You know what, you know, discipline looks like. And this is your first chance this summer to see it up close in person. Do you feel better about it now than you did maybe last year? Absolutely, because now I can see it. If they would simply have engaged with another team in a joint practice or scrimmage, they'd have checked every one of my boxes. Okay.

Everyone, but they don't do it. If they wanted to do it, they would have done it. Who were the best position coaches on the team? Oh man, O'Line. I think, Matt, when I watch him work with his people, it's so Joe Buegel, back in my mind, Jim Hannafin. I mean, I got a chance to see some world-class offensive line coaches, and they have the hardest job on the team

because they have the most players that they have to deal with, and they're protecting the king or the queen, whichever one you want to call it. So it's very important. You know, D-Line is important. important. But if they don't get the quarterback, you just don't win the game. The world's not over.

Offer's line breaks down. They murder your quarterback. You're done. So the level to me of seriousness and that's why I was blown away was all the injuries came out last week, and yet they put

together a group, and that's not why they lost the game. They lost the game because they or their third down, offense and defense. It's not good enough to compete. But their damn guys, they put in there, even if you didn't know their name, they were militaristic

in terms of competing assignments. You didn't see any free runners. They didn't jump off sides. You know what I mean? And that's how you judge a group in terms of the staff. Now, whether we play press man or

we run games up front defensively, that's the question for you and them. their coaching staff. All I know is that when it comes to results, it's not acceptable. Third down is just not acceptable. So they got to figure that out. That's their job. It ain't my job.

My job is that I report it when I see it. But you can't. And if I said, oh, you were giving pat the hole. Yeah. You need to see what the best looks like. Yeah. Right. Because going against our backups and practice,

you've been patting yourself way too much on the back. Then the moment I put you against somebody else, you fall apart. That's not what I want to see. I want to see us compete. And they were competitive, but close. You want to applaud them from being close? They almost second them. Knock yourself out.

But then you'll be crying against Jacksonville when you get your ass kicked in the opener. And then we, every year, same old crap. And so I'm saying that if they come and blow Jacksonville out and win, I'll never say another word about it. They were right. But if they don't, if they don't, buddy, you ain't all like me. I want to get to what you think they should do on Saturday night in a little bit,

but I want to stick with the coaching staff here for a moment. Other than, I mean, Del Rio's already been a head coach. Scott Turner, who knows, he's got the name, obviously, and he's going to have an opportunity to produce, you know, a decent offense this year. He's got some weapons now, brother. He's got some weapons now. He does. of the rest of the

of the rest of the coaches who's the guy that you think will be a head coach one day? Do they have one of those people like they did with Shanahan they had four future head coaches on the staff? I mean, hell, the interns were probably capable at some point of being a head coach. Who's a potential

head coach that's on their staff right now? Who's blown you away? Matt's goes older, so he's probably not going to get a chance. guess to be a head coach. But is there a guy there that you think could be a head coach one day that really impresses you? Chris Harris. Chris Harris, the defensive back coach, he won't be here next year. He'll be a de-coordinator.

He'll be gone. Yeah, he's gone. I can see that his communication, he gets his points across. He is so active in teaching. And like Frank Gans, the best coach I ever had. And Chris reminds me because he coaches every player in his sight all day. I've never seen him not do it. He is the most enthusiastic guy, but not a cheerleader, but a teacher and a trainer.

You know, a lot of yellers, screamers, they don't know what to talk about. That's clear. They just blow hearts. this guy is an instructor that has a lot of passion for what he's doing and I look at the result how active now excuse me I don't have the results in game to show that because on third down they get torched

in terms of what I see in practice in his unit I take him tomorrow I mean this guy is just really special and then we'll see but you know you can't really give a teacher well you know it's like you've been that instructors and a guy like you, high IQ, you sit in there, but you were back there, you know, thinking about games and things while she was teaching.

That doesn't mean she didn't do a great job. You just had your mind in another direction. That's true. Yeah. Yeah, so that's all I'm saying. I like him a lot. He'll be gone. He'll be gone.

But what does that mean to the final score? I have, no, I can't tell you. Let's talk some ball here. Give me a player or two that you. you are really excited about, I mean, for the upcoming season. Well, it's probably not good. It's not going to sound good again because they might not even get the chance to play. Because I'm focused on who's going to try to make the team to help them get better. And the obvious is Brown, is Diami.

Diami Brown? Yeah. Yeah. When I look at number two. We've blown a lot of our second round picks. They've just been awful. They're not even in the league. He was a third round pick.

Yeah, but what I'm saying is that when I look at a guy who he was a high pick who has not really flashed yet. So I'm going, now he's got his quarterback here with him. And I haven't seen what I'm looking for

for him. That's not to answer you a question, but a guy who has got to produce, if he does, it makes him a jackpot. Dots is a home run. He's the best player I've seen. in practice. Okay?

That answers your question. The guy that will determine if this group is special or not is the Army Brown. Because right now I can't answer that. John Dodson, the best player I've seen in person at that training camp

is Dodson. But the guy that will determine their success, he might even make the team based on what injuries come up. Because if you're going to, Do you trust him? I don't know how you can.

I take Cam Sims. I can trust him. And I'm going to get special teams work out of him. The Army Brown right now is that he's that guy that I got to know more about. To me, he's a difference maker, but he may not even make it. Because I don't know if I could trust him based on what I've seen by Dodson. And Samuel, who I hadn't seen, I mean, he told me about him, but I don't count you unless you play.

He's special. Now I see it. I go, wow. He was worth waiting for him. Now can they get the ball in his hands? But he is definitely legit. Make no doubt about it. So this is the things I couldn't see when I didn't see practice.

He never played, so I didn't really know. I like 15. Dax Mill. I like him a lot. All he does is produce. He's got to be on my team. He has got to be on a team that I'm a. involved in, he's got to be on it.

So, you know, I don't know if Jonathan Williams, who I adore, I don't know if he'll make it, but he'd make my team. Because there's just nothing about him I don't like. He does everything. And I can count on him. It's just like Keith Ishmael.

Keith Ishmael has developed to the point where I trust him now. This dude's athletic. I mean, he gives you great effort, and he plays with Pat. I like him a lot. I got to find out if he makes it, but because of their injuries, and we've got a pacifier, and so many people waiting on it,

they may take the people that haven't flashed yet over the people that have done the work. Like, I've never seen Trey Turner play here. I've seen him on the other field that bring him along. They told me, well, he's a former, and once again, he's a former panther, and he's a great former, all that. All I know is he's available. my guy is not even on the team. Flowers.

And that's for the life of me, I can't figure that out. You know, so again, I can't, I can only, you try to get me to. No, no, no, no. You answered the question. You got around to it. You said Dotson. And then you said Samuel. I mean, you focused in on two, you know, extraordinary, extraordinarily talented playmakers.

And what I would ask you is, What does Terry McLaurin look like next to a healthy Curtis Samuel and everything you've said about Dotson? Is he still their best receiver? Or do you think that Dotson or Samuel could end up becoming really their star playmaker and the go-to guy for Wentz? I think that Terry is like art monk. Jerry Clark flashes more. Right. but guard monk never fails

he just makes that's Terry Terry just he's as good as you need him to be every day the other guys I don't know I don't know that's it only because of his age

Camille I don't know I don't see it he's up and in and I don't know but I do know this about 17 like James Arthur Monk always there count on him you can trust him he's like a secure

I mean you're a guy with a lot of assets financial assets he's one of those that you can trust I mean he he yeah and he's not as flashy and I know I kept thinking how in the heck

should he go in the third round but then again now that I understand the inner works of the NFL nothing surprised me anymore because there's just not that many qualified people they got so many friends and relatives and family friends and people in positions

that don't know what the hell they're doing, then I see why there's so many misses now. But Terry McLaren, he's one of the best football players. Like Art Mark, art plays teams, this guy can play team, he could do anything. It's really, really special.

But your boy from Penn State, I'll tell you what, I don't think I've seen him drop a pass the entire town. You were right, as always. No, no, no, no, no, no. I was dead wrong about the other guy that sounded like the same last name. Well, no, but that was your son. That was your son gave you that information. I had a son at TCU when Doxon was there, and I had a son at Penn State.

In graduation last May, Ryan walked right in front of Jahan Dotson. It was funny. Actually, it happened just the way. Are you serious? Yeah, right across the stage. You know, they announced Ryan. He got his diploma. He starts walking. And up next, you start hearing people cheering. And I'm like, oh, they're cheering for my son. No, they weren't. And I knew that.

But I didn't realize here came Jahan Dotson right next. Right after him. Nice kid, too. You know what? Two demeanors. Brian Robinson and John Dotson and Terry, just great young men. Their parents should be really proud. You know, we've had our ton of jackasses that they've drafted here.

and these guys are really good people. And that's why I'm encouraged to give them the benefit of the doubt because you win with quality people. Yeah. You know, because the fool will let you down. These guys are really high-quality people who happen to also be really good football players. Yeah, they've steered clear of the Darius Geises and Suea Cravens, you know, in the second round.

They have focused on higher-quality people and character in the whole. thing. That's been Ron's, you know, culture focused to try to get better, you know, more interested people in here. I wanted to, you mentioned Brian Robinson. Are they going to strap big baby country up at the beginning of the season and just try to ride him? Are you convinced to that now? I'm not convinced of anything that they do, but that's what I would hope they do. This is not even close. He's the best back on the team, and everybody knows. Even the back to know, everybody knows. And so,

because he's also been, I mean, this guy came out of Sealed Team 6 training. So what do you say? It's not even surprised. What he had to do, he was running against

Alabama's first team. He set behind two first round running backs. You know he was practicing against all the guys in the NFL. And this dude is, he's, oh, phenomenal.

That's why I'm excited. They've now got really have some good players that they've acquired. That's why I mentioned Big Phil. Mathis, he's not a, but he's typically they blow it. No, no, no. Dude, he's all, he's all that you want to see. Solid, you haven't heard a word out of it.

He hadn't missed a second of practice. You can almost just count on him. I mean, they're just, they're like, they're morphed out of some, some cartoon. John Allen was there practice the other day, and I swear to God, I thought, oh, man, ACL, he's done. He got caught up in a big pile. And he kind of jumped up, and that was it. He said, I'm good.

They're like they're bionic. They're different. You know, they play for a higher, they have a higher standard. And that's what it's all about. And they do it physically, and they get after. So now we just got to get the results. Our problem is that we've got to get results. And results are third downs and scoreboard.

And on both of those right now, we're just not good enough to get what we need to get. Are you excited about the prospect that Logan Thomas might be ready to play in the opener? Yeah, yeah. I mean, but see, that's full goal to me. What happens if he doesn't? Do you fall apart? So the kid 88 right now, to me, I'm going into season with Amari Rogers. Because he's the only guy that's there.

Everybody else, you know, seven guys start only one. finish it. So, I mean, I got to go with the guy. I know you hate it, but I love Armani. I really like Armani Rogers so far. He's, you know, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's great. But you know, but you, but you think Logan, Thomas is a really good player, don't you? I think he's, I think he's a pro bowl talent. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Yeah, he's, he's everything. I mean, he's like more, a bigger version of what Amarie Rogers will ultimately be, because he made a position of just change and he's up to the task. I mean, he's a thrill to watch.

I don't want to get sucked into one. Then what happens if he doesn't? We don't have him. Bates, oh, my God. He's just, unfortunately, but he got the injury because I love him to death. But if you can't play, he can't help me. We may have to wait for Curtis Hodges. When I say wait, maybe sick, who knows?

But remember this, whenever they do get him on the field, in the red zone. it's over. Six-eight. You're not going to be able to cover it. You can't cover it. This dude, I go, wow. But again, I've said this about a lot of people.

Can he get to the field? Can he stay on the field? That we don't know. You got to play with who you have. And who we have is what I got to go with. And I know you hate it, but I've got to do that because the rest of the guys, they're not there. I mean, like Trey Turner, like some nitwit who does the

programs still has players that are on a pub list starting in the program. Well, they just, they don't have to update. No, they think it's cute. No, no, no. They think it's marketing. Okay. Well, you're not marketing Trey Turner unless he's playing a shortstop for you. They have, every program I look at has Chase Young on it.

It has all of them on there. How hard is it to update it now with the technology we have? Yeah. This is a thing that pisses me off. It's like either your attention to detail or you're not or you're lazy or you're promoting. Whatever it is, to me, is garbage. How about the guy who's actually playing in the game? You're a player.

You go in the locker room to give you the program and you look up there and there's Neil Jacobs. And you know Neil is the best. Can I ask you one more question about a player that's not going to play in the regular season? Go ahead. You're going to do it anyway. It's nothing I can do to stop you. I want you to just tell everybody what it's been like to watch Taylor Heineke as the backup quarterback for this team. But the kind of relationships he has, the kind of respect he garners, just a couple, give me your thoughts about Taylor Heineke.

Played well last week. Yep. And he needed to because the first shot came out, you got to be kidding me. He did it, and he's capable of doing it. He's the guy that they rally around him. I look at their body language. If something doesn't go well for him, almost over half the team comes to acknowledge him.

He is, oh, man, he's just one of those kind of guy. He gets it. He's got to continue to develop. He threw it well. He's just got to anticipate get rid of the ball quicker. that makes up for arm strength. Just get rid of this quicker. Get rid of it quick.

Or run. Be decisive. And so he's that kind of guy I felt comfortable with. I'm never in a panic. That's why I go, he's going to play in this league 10 years. If he simply just gets with the right people or stays here,

but he's got to win. If he doesn't win and his limitations are the reason, oh, he can't, well, then you're in trouble. Well, yeah. Because if I'm just talking about, I'm just talking about him as a backup quarterback in this league. Yeah, he can do it.

The faith that his teammates have in him. You've seen it up close. Okay. Oh, you can feel it. Oh, he can do it. He's got all that. I got two quick ones to end this with. Number one is this.

Number one is this. What's the player who's on the bubble right now? What's he going through getting ready for his last chance on Saturday night? His whole future. You don't know where you are, especially if he's married. or have kids. If he's single, whatever, you know, he's cool.

He's living in a suitcase anyway. But the guy with a kid or a wife that doesn't work with that, that's the guy that's running like his pants are on fire. That's why the guy I'm trying not to disrespect and start talking about a game down the road three weeks from now. It's not disrespectful.

Because for somebody, no, but you do it all the time if you don't care. And, of course, And you never lose because, again, you're the house, but you went either way. Uh-huh, yeah. I can't do that to these guys because, you know, it's too much, it's too much emotion into it, and I'm never, I'm not going to do it. Did you know you were going to make, in Cincinnati, your rookie year, for those of you that don't know, Doc, was... Broke my arm. I was hurt.

Oh, that's right, you broke your arm. So you were... I broke my arm, yeah. So they put you on injured reserve? No, they didn't. Paul Brown told me it kept me active. I came back and broke it. Again, no, I didn't. It's a horror story, and nobody cares.

But what I'm telling you is that, if you're not starting, if you're not the starter, or you're playing behind, like Bob Trump is all pro, if you're playing behind somebody, you don't know what's going to happen because an injury to another position could affect you. Right. You know what I mean? And that's what happens. It could be nothing about you, but if they had an unfortunate injury or something they didn't anticipate, that's the way it goes.

But again, you have to, you don't know, especially on a team that's not winning. The worst place you want to be is with a non-playoff environment or team because you just already know, nobody really knows and everything changes. There's never consistency. So, yeah, that's scary. Doc. Because you don't know. I like talking about Doc's career.

And he doesn't. You do, but nobody cares. He doesn't. But Doc, you know, was a great player at UCLA, Rose Bowl champion, and then was drafted in the fourth round by Cincinnati. And so in that first... By the way, a good team, I mean, the Cincinnati teams of the 70s...

Paul Brown? You had Ken Anderson, a quarterback. You just mentioned Trumpy was the tight end. Oh, yeah, Isaac Curtis? Isaac Curtis. Boobie Clark. Had Lamar Parrish already come? come to Washington

yet or not? He was the best. Leap de Lamar, the best by far. You can't throw far on Leapin Lamar. You broke your arm in the first training camp? First preseason game. First preseason game against the Packers. Yeah.

But you had a sense that you were going to make the team before that or not? A sense. Yeah, I was a fool. Yeah, of course. I was trying to start. I never thought I wasn't going to start. You don't go into this. Make the team.

No, dude. You don't get it. You don't last to this stuff. No, I do. I do get it. No, you don't. You can't. No, I do.

Yeah, really, all kidding aside. You really don't, because you don't understand what it's all about. You really? And you don't understand numbers. No, no, you understand that. What I mean is a position somewhere else could be depleted. It could affect you, is what I mean. Right.

If you're not starting, you're on the bubble. Because if they don't need you, if you don't need you, you're not somebody. They go, we cannot lose that person. It could happen to anybody. Yeah, it could. And that's what these guys are going through. I don't know their background enough to know, and I can't predict what we do. Because I don't think like they think.

So I have no idea. That's why I don't get involved in that. Because the guy I would keep, the guy I like, they may not like him for different reasons. The team that Doc got drafted by those Bengals, I'm looking it up right now. Archie Griffin was on that team. Pete Johnson. They had an all, they had a big-time Ohio State backfield, huh?

Oh, my God, yeah. Why wasn't Archie Griffin a good pro? Well, he was a good pro. Why he wasn't great, he was damn good. Because he could block, he was dependable. He wasn't at Ohio State. That's why. Because what happens is that it's like the Alabama. When you're surrounded by all them bullies and he's outstanding in his own rack, right?

It's just they overwhelm you. Now you separate it because the NFL is the equalizer. Because everybody's good. Some guys are exceptional, but everybody's good. And so, my love Griff, man. I went home with Griff for Thanksgiving. man, I was, griff, man, to this day,

when he was AD in Ohio State, because I'd never let him forget that we kicked their ass to Rose Bowl. And that was, that was like losing, that was death to them. They were number one undefeated, blah, blah, blah. So, no,

the Ohio experience was weird and different and all that, but in terms of quality people, man, Archie's brother Ray was on that team. Pete Johnson loved Pete. Pete, man, Pete, these guys, news, man, and the Browners.

So you see, that's why I understood the essence of collegiate experience, because the Notre Dame kids, Ohio State, it was different. So because of what their expectation level is so high, they never expect to lose.

I mean, you, and you get that. Doc really, I mean, I know that we've talked about this, you know, before. But Doc played in the biggest of the biggest games. That Rose Bowl that he played in, that they won, beating number one Ohio State, undefeated Ohio State, Dick Vermeal against Woody Hayes.

I mean, think about that matchup as a coaching matchup at the Rose Bowl. And then just a few years later, you were back in the Rose Bowl again, winning a Super Bowl. I mean, you really were on some massive stages in your career. You just don't have to have this podcast, you just do whatever you want to do, and you don't, you're making so much money, you have so many sponsors that you could.

do this and not lose your position. I like doing this. You know I like doing this. And I and I and I and I and I love um when you talk about like Dick Vermil and and and and some of the coaches that you had uh at UCLA. I love when you've told stories about UCLA being on campus when Bill Walton and John Wooden's the coach and and and and uh well yeah this this is why I have so many problems here in this market of issues of people not their understanding. You know, and you do it because you also, as a coach, is that people think I'm talking, that I'm making it up or that it, they don't understand it.

Because very few people actually win. A lot of people participate. Very few win. And very few win consistently. And they really don't understand the formula. I can smell it. I can see it. I've been around.

it. So when you win on every, I've won on every level. See, when you're undefeated when you're 13, it changes your life. Because one man, Herman McCulley, told us, he goes, I'm not losing a damn game. We're winning every game. What? You're thinking of you to have me. You scared was this baseball or football? Baseball, baseball. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember. I was a baseball guy. I know. And so, so baseball to me, still my favorite, because it requires you to think and we were we had signals and that's why I'm so disappointed a lot of these coaches especially to make the kid come all the way to the sideline to get a damn play

you know what I mean I'm going hey man we had we had signals when I was 11 and 12 so it's a cerebral sport you score it and you learn to score it while it's going on just really a great game it's amazing but we've become so lazy in America that you want everything's got to be process fast and you don't have any patience and we've got to speed everything up and so live with it but when you

win and the expectations is to win and then when you lose like I'm also losing it's like I swear to God I cannot so in the worst days of my life people were throwing in Cincinnati they were blowing they were burning trash cans

and people say you suck and it was the racial overtone there. I'd never experienced like the Midwest, never lived in the South. It's different. Everything's different. And so that was different for me. And then I realized that to go through all you've got to do, go through

and not win, it's not worth it. You have to win. To me, it's like oxygen. You've got to win. And then nothing infuriates me more than when people lose and make a ton of money don't seem to give a damn. and that's why I think the NCAA the dumbest group

adults I've ever been around ever heard of in my life and next is the NFL because it should be a million dollars per player to win a Super Bowl a million and because the incentives

should be so high that's all what we played for it go back and listen to the tapes guys were 70,000 all we talked about was the money because we had to win to get it. Now, these guys come to Camp Fat.

Remember all the Rose Royces we had over at the park? There was five Rose Royces used to be over at the park. I go, and nobody said nothing to them. There's no way in the hell somebody would pull up in the Rose Royce and we wouldn't win it. We'd have checked them. Yeah, we'd check them. But these guys, so that's why my frustration comes that, you know,

It's like a dying breed because nobody cares. They want to get their money. They go get in. Everybody's on the microphone. I cut them damn microphones off and say, prove it. Show me. They talk their way in and out and stuff now. Show me.

The parking lot out in Ashburn, you used to get a big kick out of when they were, you know, five and a lot. It took me off so bad. Yeah. There were Rose Royces. Yeah. And they got, I mean, just, why do you do this? I'm never coming on your show again. This is it.

All right. This is my last time. Yeah, I'm ever going to be on, but I appreciate it. Well, you know what? It won't be the last time you're invited. I'm just so glad you were available because you had so many choices. No. No, you're on vacation.

You know what? Today, I get the last laugh today because I get the microphone. The day at 3 o'clock, I am going to open up the show about you. Doc will be on 980 today and tomorrow, 3 o'clock. No, no. Richmond. I'll not be on Friday. I'm going down to 3A. Right. Yeah, provoked you down at Richmond

with the organization. Right. Something that you're getting paid to do. No, no. I'm doing charity work. I'm giving back. And then on Saturday night, 7 o'clock on NBC Sports Washington, Kenny Albert and Doc Walker, and he will be talking

about the Ravens as the Beltway bullies right from the jump. That's right. And it's time to end that. It's time to end that 22-game preseason NFL all-time. Now you're talking. All right. I'll talk to you later, thanks.

Love you back. And listen, you won't be, just don't miss me today at three, please. Because I'm going to have a tribute to you. Okay, see you. Do me a favor. Try to go one show without mentioning my name. That would be great.

I can't. I can't do it. Goodbye. I can't do it. You are ratings strong. Goodbye, see you. I'm using you as a rating strong. Why do you think I'm having you on on my key day of the week right now?

Because Cooley couldn't do it. Because Cooley couldn't do it. That's not true. I know, look, it's okay. It doesn't hurt my feeling. All right. Have another great time on Saturday. Good show today and I'll talk to you.

See you. Thank you. Thank you, Chris, my best. All right. Doc Walker, everybody. That is it for the show today. Back tomorrow, yes. Yes.

Scheduled is Chris Cooley. Have a good day. You can't make this up. Oh, Kevin Sheehan, where are you?