The Kevin Sheehan Show - Tier 2 For JD5

Episode Date: August 12, 2025

Kevin and Thom today with a lot of follow up on fan concern over Washington's dismal preseason performance against the Patriots. Jayden Daniels was ranked as a "Tier 2" QB by a panel of 50 NFL GMs, former GMs, and coaches around the NFL. The boys also talked about the Jon Gruden/NFL case that had a major ruling in the Nevada Supreme Court yesterday. Thom with more on his report from over the weekend that Mike Rizzo was actually fired because he wouldn't fire Davey Martinez. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. He is Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. The show's presenting sponsor is always Windonation 86690 Nation, window nation.

Windonation.com. Tommy, this is from Matt in Upstate. That could be Upstate New York. That could be South Carolina Upstate. Are there any other upstates in other states around the country? those are the two upstates that come to my mind. I'm not familiar with any other than New York. Well, you're familiar with the South Carolina upstate, right?

Greenville, Spartanburg, Clemson, that whole area. I think that's part of the upstate. No, I'm not familiar with that. I wasn't an ACC freak, so I'm not familiar with the Carolina. It's like you guys. All right. Well, Matt from the upstate writes, Kevin, the only thing we've learned from one preseason game, the uniforms still stink. By the way, I can't wait to hear about how bad we look during

the preseason under Coach Joe and how great Osaka was. Love the shows. Yeah, Joe Gibbs' teams famously were horrible in the preseasons in which they went on to win Super Bowls. And of course, the Steve Spurrier Osaka game is legendary around these parts. And for those unfamiliar, because most, I think, listening are familiar. Steve Spurrier's first preseason game as an NFL coach for the Washington Redskins in 2002 was in Osaka, Japan against the 49ers. And they were throwing it all over the park

and beat the 49ers 38 to 7. And he just kind of thought it was easy. He said, this isn't that hard. My stuff works. It still works. The fun and gun works. But you know something? What?

You know? I mean, we talk about Osaka. We talk about Joe Gibbs' you know, lack of success in preseason. And it's like we never discussed it at all sometimes. It's like people have never heard of it before. Well, the fun... You know what I mean?

Yeah, but the funny thing is, is back then, the preseason actually meant a lot more because players played in preseason games. Particularly when in Gibbs era. Yeah. I mean, they would play certainly for a quarter in the first game, a half in the second, and then usually well into the second half for that third preseason game. Here are the stats, by the way, from the Steve Spurrier Osaka Fun and Gun game.

Danny Werfel threw the ball 45 times in total, ran it just 21 times, which, by the way, over the years, and I've talked about this, I noticed really during like the 2010s in particular, a lot of the really good teams, the Patriots were the ringleaders in this. They would go out in at least one, if not two preseason games, and do nothing but throw the football. They didn't care about running the football. So Brady would have, you know, in a quarter,

he'd have 16 pass attempts, and there would be no runs. And other teams did that. I think the Packers did it with Aaron Rogers. A couple of the really good passing teams did it. And the reason they did it is that's the area of offense that is all rhythm and timing. And they wanted to get into that rhythm and timing in a real game atmosphere. You don't really see that anymore.

So maybe Spurrier was a little ahead of his time, throwing it four. 45 times in a preseason game. Sage Rosenfels played and Shane Matthews was benched, but he came back the next week to start. He had his Florida guys start in preseason games. The thing about that game, he really didn't understand how misleading it was. That's a true thing. I've talked to him about that.

I had him on the show maybe a year, year and a half ago, and we talked about Osaka. he really didn't and wasn't so familiar with how preseason NFL football worked. They didn't have that in college. So it seemed like a game to him. Let's remember, though. I mean, he played in a different era, but he played in the NFL. That's true.

When they played six preseason games and they played in all of them just to get in shape, the starters did. Yeah, the different era. But in week three of that 2002 season, they played the 49ers. out at Candlestick, and they lost 20 to 10, and they couldn't generate any offense, and he couldn't figure out why the 49ers, you know, were much different than they had been six weeks or whatever earlier. And it was like somebody had to remind him that, you know, Osaka, the 49ers starters

actually didn't play in the game. Yeah, Osaka. But, yeah. None of this has stopped panic from setting in, has it? I don't think most people are panicking. You know, I think social media just really, you know, gets carried away with this stuff. And I just don't think it's really reflective of like a big percentage of the fan base. You agree with that, right?

I think it is. No, I think this is a particular situation. When people see football, it's hard. for them to divorce that what they're seeing isn't real, per se. So it's hard for them still, even knowing what they know, to divorce it and not to basically extend what they see into how their team will perform. I think most fans do that. I think most, I can only speak to the audience that you and I have. I would say that the mass majority of people listening to this podcast are not worked up about the preseason result in New England on Friday night. I think

they've been around long enough to know that it literally does not matter at all, that every single projected starter sat in the game. If they're not worked, if they say they're not worked up, Most of those people are deep down are worried. They're just trying to talk themselves in the saying it's no big deal. I don't know. It's no big deal. But again, I don't see anything changing year after year in terms of the reaction. There was a lot of discussion about that preseason game.

That lasted for days. And it wasn't positive about the team at all. Well, there was nothing positive. about the game for the team. I know, but, but, but people didn't just dismiss it, you know, people didn't say, let's just move on. You know who did? They wanted a harp on. You know who dismissed it?

You. Yeah. Definitely. I definitely dismissed it. No matter, even after listening to Dan Quinn, because I came in here and I did a quick podcast after the show. And then on my ride home, I listened to Dan Quinn. and he talked about, you know, being super sloppy and the energy wasn't there,

all things that were obviously observable if you watch the game. And he's the head coach. He's supposed to be outwardly concerned. He's supposed to use it as a chance to light a fire. But the lighting of the fire is under players that aren't going to be here when they play the Giants on September 7th. I did the math on this yesterday, Tommy. So 30 players sat in the game. They either didn't dress or didn't even post.

They were back in Virginia. And of those 30, basically 29 are locks to make the roster. All right. 29 are absolute locks to make the roster. And so of those, so you take the 29, then you take the kicker, punter, long snapper. All right, that's 32. add another player or two that's not on the roster now that will probably be added. I mean, there were a couple of players added yesterday that may make the team.

So you're up to like 33, 34. Call it 34 players, okay, that didn't play in the game. Well, the kicker, and holder did. Didn't play that are going to lock up 34 of the 53 spots. 58 players played. That means 39 of them won't be on the team. on September 7th against the Giants, 39 of them. Now, there will be some practice squad guys, for sure.

It's irrelevant. I don't care about how bad they looked. I don't care. I mean, it's a little bit bothersome that there wasn't a lot of energy because there was last summer, but I don't have any doubt that this coach and this staff isn't going to have the team energetic and trying hard and giving effort.

I'm not concerned. In the least. Not at all. But I would ask you, why wasn't there more energy? The players that are, the 39 players that aren't going to be on the roster, maybe they're not very good. Maybe the Patriots just had a lot more energy, which they did. It was Rabel's first game. They played their starters.

Yeah. They played their starters. Yeah. So there's some of that. I mean, if you... So if you get, okay, so if, look, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. So if you're going to dismiss the bad, that means you can't embrace the good. So you can't rave about how Trey Amos, is that his name?

Amos, yeah. Trey Amos. Yeah. How good he played, right? Because it doesn't matter. How well he does. You know, right? Right.

He, these, these games are for player evaluation. but it's not, I mean, we can try to evaluate the players, but the coaches can obviously evaluate the player performance because they know what the players are being asked to do. And the context of these games isn't to go win the game. It is to evaluate players. You know, even, you know, I think it was, was it T.J. Watt or J.J. Watt had that. J.J. Watt had that tweet.

He said, you guys have no idea what you're looking at. in some cases, plays themselves aren't even designed necessarily in practice or, you know, for them to work. It's for a player evaluation or to evaluate a concept. So I don't know that most of us know what we're watching. I think the obvious stuff, like a kicker missing a field goal, which Matt Gay did, if he had made the 70-yarder that Cam Little did for the Jacksonville Jaguars, We could have certainly clapped hard for that because, I mean, a field goal attempt is a field goal attempt, right? If a quarterback misses with plenty of time five straight receivers or if a receiver drops six straight balls, we can evaluate that.

It's funny because you use the example of, well, then we can't evaluate the good. It's easier, I think, for us to evaluate the obvious bad than the obvious good. although a kicker making a 70-yard field goal is good. That would be an obvious good. A running back that fumbles a couple of times is not good because that's not, they're not evaluating his ability to carry the ball differently. You know, like we can, there's stuff that's obvious. I don't know.

I can't, we've done this for so long. You and I have done this for so long together. and there's nothing rarely that carries over into the regular season. The only, the, yeah. So we shouldn't expect to see Sam Hartman in the offseat, you know, this fall in hair-cuttery commercials instead of in a commander's uniform. I don't think Sam Hart, I think Josh Johnson is the leader for the third spot, because Sam Hartman is still eligible for the practice squad, right? I think so.

Did he do hair cuttery spots? I'm not following Sam Hartman's. He has the greatest hair in the world. Yeah, right. He's a handsome man, yes. Yes. Yeah, but people seem to like him. He certainly did.

He didn't help himself, did he? I don't know. He didn't. What do you don't know? Well, he didn't appear to help himself. But again, I mean, I don't know that the coaches aren't taking the joint practice more seriously or their own practices more seriously. I do think there is something about a real game under the lights,

referees, fans, clock, scoreboard, and you might be able to evaluate somebody's ability to kind of step up and seize the moment or shy away from it or get scared by it. I think there's probably some of that psychological stuff. Like you can see the guys that are real gamers versus guys that. maybe get too nervous. I bet there's a lot of that evaluation going on. I think that there's probably something to learn there. But again, are we going to notice that in an offensive lineman or a defensive lineman?

Probably not. We might notice it a quarterback. What did Sam Hartman do? I'm actually looking. So he threw the one interception. Wasn't it a tipped ball? Wasn't it a catchable ball, the interception? I'm pretty, or no, that was the one Josh Johnson threw.

Nine of 19 for 64 yards. Yeah. Not good. Right. I mean, he wasn't good enough to, you know, be on the roster last year. He was on the practice squad, right? They had the other dude as the third stringer for getting his name now. The guy that's not on the team anymore.

The Cincinnati guy for many years. You don't know who I'm talking about. Their third string quarterback last year was. I will tell you in one second, because I have blanked on his name. I don't have this kind of staff that you have. Last year's third. I can't recall it. Last year's third string quarterback was Jeff Driscoll.

Yes. Jeff Griskel was the third string quarterback. And if I recall, he actually played pretty well as a runner in the preseason. Remember last year with Jaden, they were running some read option and Driscoll came in and did it, and Marcus Mariotta came in and did it. I'm not at all concerned. Monday night, to me, is going to be a better environment to watch football because Cincinnati's playing their starters.

We know that. They played them in the opener against Philly. I would imagine Washington's going to play their starters, I think, for a quarter or two. I think that's a legitimate question as a fan. Do you think that starters should play? Should they get more work? Yes. I mean, the risk of injury is just as great in, you know, the first series of the first game of the year as it is in a preseason game.

It's maybe not as great as in practice in shells when you're not hitting. But I'd like to see Jaden and the first team offense out there. It's not going to be the first team offense because Terry won't be out there unless he signs between now and Monday night. You know, today they're having an intra-squad. scrimmage. And just FYI, we're recording this prior to that intra-squad scrimmage. So we don't know what the results were and we don't know what Dan Quinn said afterwards. I think it's safe for us to say about that preseason game and this preseason in particular that the coaching staff has a different agenda this preseason they did last year.

right last year they were still getting to know their roster their players they were still new yeah it was so preseason i think last year was a much more significant for them than this year where they pretty much know what they have going in except for a handful of players but last year it was all new. Yeah, that's, no, and I think some of what I was talking about with respect to kind of sizing up the kind of, you know, mental toughness some of the players have. It was their first experience to see what these guys and how they would react to going out under the lights and playing in an actual game atmosphere. Because I'm sure that coaches during these preseason games will get back on, you know, know, Saturday morning after a Friday night game and say, oh my God, did you see when old,

you know, Johnny got into the game in the fourth quarter? I mean, he, he soiled himself. He was so nervous. You know, there's probably some of that that they don't see in practice, but then they see under the lights, like in a real game atmosphere when you get that first opportunity. And then at the same time, the flip side is, oh, my God, that kid who's been, you know, basically going through the motions in practice, did you see? him, you know, when he got in there with, you know, three minutes to go in the fourth quarter. Let's keep an eye on him and maybe consider him for the practice squad. I don't know. I mean, the bottom line is the every projected starter didn't play in the game. I mean, Josh Connerly did,

and maybe he'll end up starting. And I can't get worked up over their readiness, their intensity, their execution and the final score when the players that are going to play against the Giants didn't play in the game. And by the way, even if they had played in the game and they only played a series or two, I've seen it for too many years. It's just not more times than not translatable.

There is one interpretation that I read out there on social media and in stories from the people, that covered the team is that Terry McClureen didn't get hurt at all by that first preseason game. Yeah, I talked about this on the podcast yesterday. Somebody said, emailed me and said, clearly Friday night was a great night for Terry McLaren. I'm like, it was. Why?

Debo Samuel didn't play. Jaden Daniels didn't play. Like nobody was out there. How could you possibly? I mean, if you were. want to just go based off of the fan observation of the game. Jacori Harris, the wide receiver, was one of the top two or three performers in the game. I think he's a receiver.

He is. He's a big receiver, too. He's got good hand. You could see that in the game on Friday night. I don't think that Terry's been... My response to that was, if Terry was helped so much by the joint practice in the preseason game, when they signed 14 players or when they worked out 14 players on Sunday and signed three yesterday, why wasn't at least one of them a wide receiver?

None of them were. Good point. So I don't think they're that concerned. And let's keep in mind again, Terry's going to play for this football team in 2025. So we don't have to worry about whether or not he's being helped or not helped. He's going to play for us. I don't think in negotiation, in the negotiation conversation, I can't imagine that he was helped much. But I could be wrong.

I could be wrong. Maybe they're panicking behind closed doors. Maybe they're like, oh, my God, we have nothing and we got to get, we got to pay him what he wants. Or we got to get up to a number that he'll accept. I don't, but I don't sense that personally. Okay. Here's another email that I wanted to read, and it's, a good segue into Terry. It's from Ed. Ed's a doctor. He's an MD. He writes,

Here's why I think the deal with Terry McLorne might be dragging out. If you take him at his word, there was a period of time when the team ignored him. Nobody likes to negotiate with someone who ignores them. And Terry was clear that this felt hurtful after years of dedicated service to a dysfunctional franchise. If the team had shown him due respect, maybe they would have found him more open to negotiation and reached a deal by now. Respect is vital in any negotiation. When one party feels disrespected, they will inevitably dig in and become unreasonable out of spite.

I'm surprised this perspective isn't discussed more in the media, including on your show. I think it could be a major factor. What do you think? Well, I don't think this guy has no idea what kind of communication the front office had with Terry McCloran in the off-season. Well, Terry said there was a month. They didn't remember when he did the Eastern Motors thing, he said they haven't talked to him in a month,

him or his agent in a month. Okay. Yeah, I think that's what Ed's referring to. Oh, okay. Terry seemed hurt by the fact that they had kind of gone, you know, that they were, you know, for the lack of a better description,

and it's probably not the right one, that they were ghosting him. I know that, but I don't think any reasonable agent would talk his client out of using that as to hurt himself, you know? If you think Terry McCorn is hurting himself by this hold in and refusing to sign a contract, I think the agent would tell the guy, look, you got to put that aside unless the agent took it personally, too.

And that would be foolish. You can't take this stuff personally. No, you can't. But I actually agree with that a little bit. because the thing that that struck me the most about the press conference that day was that he wasn't angry, he was hurt. And he was selling himself. He was trying to validate himself because I don't think he had felt like during the negotiations that the organization understood his value. And then they had gone, you know, dark for 30 days.

Now, that was the 30 days in which everybody gets away and every, you know, doesn't mean you don't, you don't continue negotiations. And I would agree with you, you can't be hurt. You can't get emotional in these situations. But I do think that part of this is Terry not feeling like they're acknowledging what he's been through here and what he's meant to the organization, in his opinion. And maybe... But you always say that, you know, it's what you're going to do, not what you've done.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, if I were his agent, I'd be trying to get as much as I can for what he's done, but I would also understand that, you know, you don't get paid for what you've accomplished so far. You get paid for what you're going to accomplish. He got paid for what he's done. He got that contract extension, and he's been playing on it, and he hasn't played through the entirety of it yet. That was a contract for the kind of player and the kind of person he was, you know, and for what he had, you know, and for what he has done the last three years.

He got paid for that. Now, again, every situation's different, and he is an important person in the organization. He's not a diva. This isn't, you know, a guy that fans, you know, have been, like, you know, completely against, which is, like you said, often the case, they'll take management side. I mean, I think they've flipped a little bit here in recent weeks, but I think that, I think he, I think he, I think he, I think he. it's not just for what he's accomplished, Tommy.

It's also that they don't see him the way he sees himself in relation to the, you know, the receivers in the league. I think he believes he's, you know, he's up there, you know, and he's really good. And I think they think he's really good. And I think he thinks he's great. He didn't say that publicly, but I mean in negotiations and wants to get paid like he's great. They're not going to pay him like he's great. They're going to pay him like he's great.

really good. Here's the thing, though. He's great in Ashburn. Jane Daniels is not going to be thrown to any of those other great receivers this here. He's great for this team because he is clearly the best thing they have on offense for Jane Daniel. So however great, however great he is or isn't among the league,

he's the greatest thing they've got in Ashburn. Well, the greatest thing they have is Jaden Daniels. Right. Yes. I mean, the greatest thing for Jane to help Jane Daniel is this guy. He's not throwing to, you know, any of the other great wide receivers, Jefferson or anyone else. No. No matter how much better they are than Terry.

They're not on the roster. That's true. It doesn't matter right now. The question is, if Terry weren't on the roster, would, it impact their offensive success. And I think it would, I don't think it would at the level that a lot of people out there think it would. I don't think that they're going to be ground to a halt if Terry McLoran isn't out there. You know, he didn't have big games every week last year.

The guy caught, what, 87 balls last year? Was it 82? I mean, he was 19th in receptions or yards and 15th and the other. I mean, they had games in which Terry didn't produce in a big way, but the offense did. But part of that could be because he was on the field. He's a decoy. Yeah, he could. I mean, he could be drawn double coverage in those situations.

He's not a guy that gets doubled a ton, like the great receivers do. No. No, he's not. I know that. But his presence on the field could have resulted in that. it wouldn't come to a grinding halt. But if you think you're a Super Bowl contender, you can't win without Terry McClure. I tend to agree with that.

I do. I believe that the chances of them contending for a Super Bowl are less without Terry McLaren. But if the defense stepped up and the defense was much better than it was last year, I still think they could be a very successful team without Terry, I think they would still have success offensively. Again, you know, Buffalo, Kansas City last year, no receivers really. And they were, you know, Kansas City was in the Super Bowl and Buffalo was in the final four.

And they won a combine 29 regular season games or whatever it was. But their defenses were excellent. So Washington defensively to contend without Terry would need to be much better defensively. And I don't know that you can count on that. But again, like we're having this conversation, and, you know, I get sucked into it too, like I just did, as if he's not going to play. Like there's a choice. You either sign him or he doesn't play. That's not the choice.

You either sign him and he plays or you don't sign him and he plays. Those are the two choices. Yes, he could hold out. That would be super damaging to himself. There is the possibility, too, that with this supposed ankle injury, they could put him on the Pupp list, you know, the reserve list, and he could get paid while he's not playing. I want to see that happen. This ankle injury seems to me to be, you know, a convenient excuse for everybody so that they can not find him while they're still negotiating, hopefully.

a contract extension. I want to see him use it during the regular season and choose to go ahead and pay him and have, you know, his contract grow. And what's that word they use? I forget the word that they use. Toll. Is that it? I forget what it is. But anyway, I think the likely scenario is still he plays on an extended deal. I still think that is the odds on favorite. But I think the clear cut number two is that he plays on the last year of his deal. I can't emphasize enough, and I know this is a broken record, but for the team, if they're not really concerned about 2027, a 32-year-old Terry McCorn, then they should let him play out his deal and then choose the franchise tag in 2026.

It is much better financially for the team to do that. And I would think that that's in play here. There's pictures posted this morning from the commander's media that Terry McLaurin is watching practice and is talking to Adam Peters while he's watching practice. Oh, boy. If we're recording this and later on in the day, the news breaks that he's signed a deal, we're going to have to ditch this show to do a new one. even though you have a commitment this afternoon, and so do I. But anyway, well, look, I hope he gets a deal. That's still the best case, I think, for us, the fans.

And I still think it's the odds on favorite that he ends up getting a contract extension. All right. Speaking of Jaden Daniels, the athletic has put out their quarterback tiers, ranking all of the starting quarterbacks in the NFL will tell you. where Jaden landed on that. List right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought you by Window Nation. 50% off all window styles with nothing owed for two full years.

That's right. No money down, no payments, and no interest charged until the year 2027. So you'll get brand new windows. That'll save you big money for two years plus on air conditioning bills and heating bills. your home will look better and you don't have to pay for them until Jaden Daniels has his new contract in 2027. And when you start paying, you'll be paying half price. All I ask is give him a chance to come out and give you an estimate. If you've been thinking about new windows, just call Window Nation at 86690 Nation or go towindonation.

dot com, mention my name, and they will schedule for you a convenient hour or less in-home estimate. They'll leave you with the quote. They won't bother you. You make the decision. But if you've been thinking about new windows, please give Windonation a shot. I promise you it'll work out. It does for everybody. I hear from people all the time about their experience with Wind Donation. They've got over 45,000 five-star reviews, and they've got a consistently very high satisfaction rating of 96%. 86690 Nation, Windonation.com. By the way, Dan Quinn, before practice started, said there is no update on Terry McClure. Okay.

But there could be an update later on today. Yes, there could be. I'm just trying to ease your mind. I know. Well, we were just talking during the break because we are recording. We do this occasionally. It's usually because Tommy's very busy. He's got a big schedule and he's got a commitment this afternoon.

As do I, actually, this afternoon. I'm playing golf this afternoon. When you told me you had to do the show early on Tuesday, I said, well, that'll give me a chance if I want to go play golf. So I'm playing golf later on today. But no, I've actually had this commitment. for a while? Yeah, I've played, I've played, no, not a lot, but I played in the last month a little bit here and there.

Why? I'm just curious. Why are you curious? Usually it sounds, it sounds like you've played golf a lot more in past years. Well, yeah, I talked about it. I had that thing there where I couldn't do anything after that thing for about a month. That's right. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So that's why. But I've had this commitment actually for a while. So if news breaks, you're going to have to wait until tomorrow's show for us to have it. I don't know. I guess I could come in here tonight if Terry signs a deal. But I don't think he's going to sign a deal today.

The odds probably are against it. But I still think eventually he will before the season starts. You have not updated your current thought on that. Contract extension, no contract extension. I mean, it's hard. to envision them not making a deal. But I got to tell you, when, you know, when ESPN reported that he was offered 23 million, that I think.

Fowler changed that. You know, you and I talked about that last week. Fowler then was on a podcast later that day and amended that to say 24 or 25 million, for what it's worth. Okay, that's not much better. But, I mean, that really threw me. I mean, that made me think that they're not going to make a deal. I mean, I can't fathom why you would negotiate with that kind of offer.

I mean, look, this is an interesting, we've talked about this before. Fans are torn between their, you know, in Adam Peters, we believe, and he earned that after one year of magic with a roster that looked like he bought it at Costco. and Terry McClure, who has given so much of his franchise in Dark Times. So you have two forces pulling on fans here. I think they make a deal. Okay. We're on the same page.

It doesn't happen all the time. So the Athletic did their quarterback tiers with six GMs, six assistant GMs, six former GMs, five other execs, eight head coach. and 19 other coaches, including 15 coordinators. They had them, it was a 50-person panel for Mike Sandoz's annual quarterback rankings for the athletic. They had five different tiers, tier one, tier two, tier three, tier four, tier five. Tier one quarterbacks, here they are. Tide for first, Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrow.

Also in tier one, Josh Allen, number three, Lamar, Jets. Jackson number four, and Matt Stafford number five. Where did that come from? Where did what come from? Matt Stafford, or no, Jay. Stafford, yeah. Oh, Stafford's right, he's right there on the, I think he's after Jaden, but I think Stafford's right in that top six, top seven conversation.

I'm surprised some people know he's still playing in the league. Well, he almost pulled off the win at Philadelphia in the snow to get to the NAC championship game. We would have been playing in L.A. I actually think if he's healthy and he's got some back issues right now, I think the Rams are really being undervalued at this point with the talent they have on both sides of the ball. But the key is him, obviously. So that's your top five, tier one. Tier two starts with the sixth best quarterback in the NFL.

Jaden Daniels, followed by Justin Herbert at seven, Jared Gough at eight. Stroud and Hertz tied for ninth. So that's your top 10. Baker Mayfield's considered a tier two quarterback at 11, Prescott at 12, Jordan Lev at 13, and Brock Purdy at 14. Those are your tier two quarterbacks. Look, I think he's in the top five. I've had him sort of Mahomesboro, Alan Jackson, Daniels. I think that's what he is. Oh, you think he's the best quarterback of the NFC, right? I do. Yeah. And I think Stafford's

probably the second best quarterback in the NFC. I'm a big Jordan Love guy. I still believe Jordan Love has some greatness ahead of him. He's awfully young. And Baker Mayfield's really taken a big step. And I'm a Hertz guy. I just don't think hurts is Daniels. Like, I just can't imagine if I were an Eagle fan other than really liking Jalen Hertz and not wanting to see him go. If somebody offered me straight up Jaden for Jalen Hertz, I would take that. I think I would.

Well, I definitely would. I don't know how I would feel if I'm an Eagles fan because I'm the opposite of an Eagles fan. But six is fine. I would have extended Tier 1 to include the top six, and Jaden would have been a Tier 1 quarterback, because I think that's what he is. I think he is definitely an elite quarterback. man there is you know I I understand the reluctance after one year to elevate him that high but it's the greatest year we've ever seen a rookie quarterback has yeah you know I mean I think I think all all all rules are off all bets are off if you've got reluctance to to jump in on this guy I mean because there they're you know I know this is kind of

of like, you know, cursing them. But there are no red flags. None. None. Not one. None. Not off the field. Yeah.

Not on the field. You know, there's no warp coaching staff to destroy them. None. No red flags. What's funny about the tier two description, a tier two quarterback can carry his team sometimes, but not as consistently as tier one quarterbacks. He can handle pure passing situations and doses and or possesses other dimensions that are special enough to elevate him above tier three.

He has a hole or two in his game, a hole or two in his game. I can't name the hole for Jaden Daniels. I personally can't. There's his hole. He was a rookie. That was his hole. I mean, that's the only thing I think that the reason why you wouldn't put him in tier one, you say yourself, oh, Jesus, he only played one year, you know?

How can I put him ahead of guys who have been in a league for years? Yes, that's it. That's a big part of it. No doubt. No doubt. I mean, look, we did this segment a few weeks ago. Have we crowned him too early? I personally don't think so.

Here are some of the quotes about Jaden Daniels. This is from a defensive coordinator. Quote, what I respect most is it. never seems too big for him. He would stand in the pocket and deliver the ball. Once we saw him running around, it was, okay, he's going to be a problem. Another defensive coordinator, he's a two, meaning a tier two with the arrow up. He can run. He can throw with accuracy, and he's really calm. This shit ain't too big for him, big for him, and it's easy to see when you are playing him. He doesn't get flustered. From one voter from one of Washington,

Washington's NFC East rivals. He's probably the best passer in our division. He's really good. From another defensive coordinator, this dude has got arm, legs, and processing. He just took his team to the championship game with a non-championship caliber roster. There you go. Excuse me, roster. There you go.

Yeah, I mean, that's what we talked about towards the end of the season. last year. It's like he's doing this, not in the way Rothlisberger or Flacco or Sean King or any of the other guys, Mark Sanchez, when they were rookies and went to championship games. He had a 23rd ranked DVOA defense, 26th against the run. He let it. He strapped the team to his back. He was the one responsible for it. None of the other rookie quarterbacks that got to championship games were were anywhere near number one on the list of responsible for it. This from a head coach about Jaden Daniels, I think he's tremendous. I don't want to one him, meaning tier one him, because I want to see another year.

Get me halfway through that second year and I'll have a good feel. The defensive coordinators will all have had their shot by them. By the way, since Sandoz started to do this list, No second year quarterback has made a higher ranking than Jaden Daniels in his second year. C.J. Stroud was lower than that, I guess, last year. Yeah. All right. I mean, he's really good, people. And guess what? They're going to play the games this year and we're going to have a chance to watch him again. I just don't, I can't envision other than the team. being horrible around him. I can't imagine that he has like a step back or a big time

difference season in year two. Will he win all those games in the last few seconds like he did last year? No, but if he's in that position, he's certainly going to be okay dealing with it. Let's get to this John Gruden NFL story and also talk about what you reported over the weekend about Mike Rizzo's exit from the Nats. We'll do that and more after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelley. Well, you know, I'm down here at Bethany Beach, and it's been beautiful weather, and the beach has been great.

And I'm on the beach yesterday, and I've got my Shelley's backroom hat on. It's a very cool hat. You know, it's a picture of, like, on the brim of a cigar with ash and smoke, hanging out, you know. And it's one of my favorite hats. I'd like to get one of those hats. Do you think I can get one of those hats? I think you can buy them online.

If I'm not mistaken, I think Shelley's backroom has some apparel, including hats for sale. And you can find out more at shellysbackroom.com. But a guy, you know, I was walking by and a guy stopped me, he said, Shelly's back room, I go there. And, you know, he started talking that he realized, So you're Tom Laverro, orange. Then he recognized me, but he recognized my hat first.

Right. Because we both shared a love of Shelley's back room, and we talked a little bit about cigar smoking, and that's when I disappointed him because I couldn't really talk about cigar smoking, because I just smoke them. I don't really know anything about them, you know. But the people with Shelly's do,

they know a lot about cigars because they have the best you can smoke for sale there at Shelly's backroom. You can see their cigar menu online. Shelley's backroom at 1331 F Street Northwest in the district. The Nevada Supreme Court yesterday sided with John Gruden in his lawsuit, alleging the NFL leaked damaging emails to the media before he resigned back in 2021. And their five to two ruling justices did not determine whether or not the league had leaked Gruden's emails, but they found that the league's decision to force his complaint into arbitration

proceedings overseen by Roger Goodell was unconscionable. So this thing is going to court, Tommy, and there will be discovery, and there will be witnesses, and what are we going to learn about Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen and their role in this? You know, I think they could, actually, they could appeal to the Supreme Court if they wanted to. I think they'd probably, will. The league? Yes. Okay. But what's interesting about discovery that we're all pining for in the information available, you know, right now, it's just for entertainment purposes. If this was a few years ago,

we saw it as fuel to force a change in the team, to force the owner out. Now, it's just entertainment purposes, right? Yeah, like I guarantee you there are people, especially some of these, you know, fans on social media that would say, who cares about this? I mean, we got a winning team. We won 14. We're a Super Bowl contender. Why would you focus on this? Well, because we can do more than one thing at the same time, you know?

I can worry about and talk about the name and I can talk about Jaden Daniels in the games. Like, God, I know that's coming. Like if anybody, and I don't tweet about this stuff, if anybody tweets, oh my God, I can't wait to hear what comes out about Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder, I guarantee you there will be people that would say, why would you even care? Dan Snyder's gone. Well, because of what you said, it will be incredibly entertaining. And I love this stuff to find out what was really going on. I mean, hell, this will be interesting for just NFL fans. They don't have to be Raider fans or John Gruden fans or understand potentially,

potentially the role of a Snyder or a Bruce Allen and all of this. But it's not like I'm going to, you know, read through the discovery notes during a game on Sunday when the skins are playing the Giants. Like there's, there are other hours in the day where you can do other things. but I think it will be, I mean, I hope we get to the point. Let me ask you this. It's probably a question for like a Neal and Rockville or a Howard,

but would they, they'd have to, they'd be deposed, right? Yes. Yes, they'd have to be deposed. And then how would we learn what was said? Well, if it goes to trial, I think those depositions would be filed in the court file. Okay. I would imagine that the Don Van Nattas

and the Seth Wickershams of the world would have all that, don't you think? I would think, Seth. Yeah. I would think Don Van Nata has been waiting for a moment like this. Yeah. Although he's had many great moments as a reporter.

All right. So we will, the NFL, if they appeal it to the Supreme Court, this is going to take a long time, obviously. But this was a big win for John Gruden yesterday. And we'll see what happens with him and, you know, a potential coaching job at some point. I think he wants to coach. Hasn't he said that over and over again?

I think he's got a less than zero chance of coaching the NFL. Yeah, but he could coach college. He could definitely. Oh, absolutely. And I think he'd be a great coach. If you're a college president and you want to. to make a name for your down and downtrodden program? Yes, that would be, that would do it.

All right. Tell me what you wrote about Mike Rizzo over the weekend. Well, on Friday's Washington Times, and you can go online at Washington Times.com slash sports, I reported that yes, indeed, what a lot of people speculated was true, that the learners fired Mike Rizzo as general manager because he would not fire Davy Martinez as the manager.

They wanted him to fire Davey. He refused to do it because he didn't believe the problem with the team was the manager. He believed that the problem with the team was the players. They're not very good. Now, you could say, well, that's a reflection on him. But it's, again, that you're looking at, if you do that, you're looking at the symptom of the disease. The disease is an ownership that spent $65 million for an arm. field payroll this year.

I mean, basically, he was operating with two hands tied behind his back, and he just refused to, you know, to fire the manager. He took a stand on it because he thinks Davey was the best manager for this team. Moving forward,

and a lot of gambols that Rizzo took didn't work out as free agents this year. But that was the way he had to shop. And again, it wouldn't have taken much to have spent a little bit more to make the team more competitive. So that's what I wrote. I also wrote that the learners probably are rooting. There's probably going to be a lockout in baseball in 2027 because the owners want to have a salary cap when the current contract is up, and the players union won't ever agree to that.

So everyone's speculating there'll be a lockout. the learners would certainly welcome that because if there's no baseball, they're not going to lose any money. Right. Okay. Breaking news. That's what you do sometimes. Occasionally.

Like John Houston said in China, Chinatown, there's still some teeth left in this mouth. All right. Enjoy your day the next couple of days, and I will talk to you on Thursday. Okay, boss. You too. Have good fun playing golf. All right. I'll be back tomorrow, everybody.

everybody.