The Kevin Sheehan Show - Tim Kurkjian on Soto + McLaurin's Madden

Episode Date: July 19, 2022

Kevin welcomed ESPN's Tim Kurkjian on the show to talk about the Juan Soto drama in DC. Chase Hughes/NBC Sports Washington jumped on with his reaction to Terry McLaurin's lofty Madden 23 rating. Kevin opened the show with thoughts on both the Soto and Durant stories along with a reaction to Terry McLaurin's lofty "Madden 23" rating.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. It feels pretty tough. It's pretty frustrating. So I try to keep myself private. Don't try to throw stuff out there.

It feels really bad, but at the end of the day, we just got to keep playing. It don't matter what's happening. A couple weeks ago, they were saying they were never train me and now all these things he came out. It feels really uncomfortable. the ball. You don't know what to trush, but at the end of the day, it's out of my hands with what decision they made. That was Juan Soto yesterday at Dodger Stadium prior to winning the

home run derby last night, a cool $1 million first prize for winning the home run derby as he beat Albert Pooholz, the 42-year-old legend in the final. But he did not sound happy about the Nats leaking the information if you believe that's how it got out. And most people do. about him turning down the $440 million 15-year offer. His agent, Scott Boris, quoted yesterday, negotiations between Juan Soto and the Nationals should be private. They are not anymore. My client will take that under-advisement, closed quote.

How convenient from Scott Boris, who has many times in the past leaked information when it benefited his client. In this case, he doesn't think it did. have no problem real quickly, as an aside, with the Nats trying to get their message out to their fans that they have tried to sign Juan Soto to a long-term deal, especially with a potential trade looming. I don't think the timing of it was very smart. We've bashed the football team time and time again with a two-by-four to their heads for years for being just horrible at public

relations. While I think the Nats had every right to try to get the message out there that they were really attempting and doing their best to sign Wandsota when he turned down this massive deal, even though in this day and age, most simpletons can do the math on the AAV. You know, it's not like the 440 million the Nats should have thought would have won the day. Everybody can understand that it equated to, you know, an AV that would put him barely in the top 20. So it wasn't. It wasn't. an offer that he was going to accept. It was an increased offer from where they were before. I don't have them, again, any issue with them trying to get the message out there that they are trying to do it. But the timing of it with the home run derby last night, with the All-Star

game tonight, with Juan Soto being the representative there, knowing that he was going to be the big story in L.A. I don't know that it worked to their advantage. That's for sure. Anyway, Tim Kurchin's going to be on the show today with us. Nobody better than Tim to answer all of the questions surrounding the Juan Soto situation here in D.C. After Tim, we will talk to Chase Hughes. Why are we going to talk to Chase Hughes? Well, there was a story written by a credible longtime NBA reporter mentioning Kevin Durant and the Wizards in the same sentence, as in the Wizards have interest in Kevin Durant. And Kevin Durant may, may have some interest in the Wizards.

We will get to that here momentarily. And then we will talk to Chase Hughes about it later on in the show. The show today is presented by Window Nation. Right now you can beat the heat with Window Nation and save $200 off any style new window. Pay nothing until 2024 in the process. You will save thousands on energy bills over the next two years. you'll increase the value of your home with a better look and feel. And you can do that right now by calling them at 86690 Nation or going to windownation.com and mentioning my name.

You'll make no payments and pay no interest until the year 2024 with brand new windows from Window Nation. You've got nothing to lose. It's a free estimate. Mention my name, 86690 Nation, windownation.com. Before we get to Tim Kirchen, let me. just quickly say the following about Juan Soto. I'm watching the home run derby last night. I'm watching him as he is really the story of the day. And will probably be the story of the day today as well in Los Angeles prior to the All-Star game tonight. A generational talent, a

player who many have compared to Ted Williams is potentially going to be traded at 23 years old. and as I was watching him last night in the home run derby, which to me is not the most exciting event. You know, it's for some people, just like the slam dunk contest and the three-point shooting contest. You know, there was a point in time where I loved all of that stuff. I don't like any of it anymore. The home run derby actually, I think, is the most interesting,

at least for a short period of time. Then it gets old, although I stuck with it last night, because of Juan Soto being alive. all the way into the finals and then winning the thing last night. But as I was watching him, I thought, wow, I mean, how did we get here? Less than three years ago, they won the World Series. And they were an organization that had been winning for eight consecutive years. They had won more games than any franchise in Major League Baseball,

with the exception of the Dodgers in terms of total number of wins. They had a playoff history, you know, just soul-crushing losses to the Cardinals, to the Dodgers, to the Cubs. They lost one to the Giants. That was in four games, not a fifth game home loss, as the others were. And I just, I thought, wow, what a difference, you know, barely three years makes. This organization, this team right now is among the worst in baseball with no prospect of getting that much better anytime soon. All of the rankings of their farm system are in the bottom third of the league, if not the bottom 25% of the league. And some of their big contracts with a guy like

Steven Strasbourg, they don't know if they'll ever get one cent more of a return from Stephen Strasbourg with the latest injury that he has. And Juan Soto is all that really is a left at this point. I mean, Patrick Corbyn's still pitching for them. Strasbourg's still on the team, but in terms of the actual positional players, he's all that's left. And they weren't, I don't think they were supposed to suck the year following the World Series win, even though they didn't have Rendon on the roster, even though Howie Kendrick retired. They were supposed to be a good team. They were supposed to be a contender. And then we had the pandemic. And everything changed. They missed out on an unbelievable business upside that, you know, I don't know if they'll ever, ever,

if there will ever be a story. Tommy mentioned this yesterday. If there will ever be a story of worse luck following a championship than the Nats having the ability to sell out the ballpark, increase corporate sponsorship. The revenue increases following a World Series. we documented back in 2019. They never had a chance to take advantage of that. That's put them in the position they're in now,

that along with the commercial real estate industry, where they are looking to sell the team the learners are. And they weren't good in a weird year, the pandemic season. They were bad last year. They traded off Scherzer and Trey Turner. And here they are this year as one of the worst teams in baseball at the All-Star break. I mean, sitting there, 32 games, 32 out under 500, 27 and a half games back of the first place Mets.

They've got the worst record in the National League. They've got the worst record now in all of baseball. They are the worst team in baseball. And I'm watching last night and I'm thinking, wow, I mean, now they're going to lose Juan Soto. doesn't make sense to me. He's really all they have. How are you going to get Juan Soto back? Who's going to be interested in the team if you trade Juan Soto in the next few years? And yet, I do understand the flip side of that argument, which is if you're not going to sign him in two and a half years and you're not going to be a team that contends for anything in the next

two and a half years, we know it's not going to be this year, well, then you've got to try to get as much back for him as you can. Right, Sheehan? This is the Kirk Cousins, Trent Williams, Brandon Sheriff conversations that we've had over the years. The football team effed up all of those situations. You can't actually be advocating for the opposite with the Nats. Well, I sort of am. It's two and a half years they have left with him. He is debatably the best player in baseball, certainly the best offensive player in baseball. He's nowhere near his prime yet, and look what he's accomplished. He's a true superstar in the game. How do you trade him? For what? Maybe a few big leaguers and a bunch of prospects. What are the chances that in aggregate what you bring back,

it matches what you lose? Probably not that great. Certainly the chance of getting a player back of his caliber, slim and none. But here's the bottom line. I think what we've learned about him and maybe what we learned about Bryce Harper, too. They don't want to play here. I know he has said the opposite, but they just don't want to play here. And the Nats have that sense. You know, it's a complicated situation because of the ownership deal, but people, for whatever reason, don't love our city as much as we do. And I can. can understand L.A. You know, in the weather, in San Diego

in the weather. And New York is New York. And certainly there are other cities with much longer and storied baseball traditions and more passionate fan bases. But D.C.'s come along here. It's not a bad

place to live. It's not a bad place to raise a family. And the nationals in terms of the organizations in town are one of the best. But you don't know what is coming down the road, and the Nats can't take the risk, I guess, of sucking with him for the next two and a half years and then watching him walk. So I do understand that part too. I'm not super sold that keeping him is the right thing. It just seems to me that if you actually have Ted Williams on your team, you probably don't want to trade him.

As far as Kevin Durant goes, I would trade whatever it took to get Kevin Durant. And that would probably include, it would have to include guys like Porzingis, a couple of other players, and lots of draft picks. Remember, Bradley Beale has a no trade clause. The reason I bring it up is because Sam Amico, who writes for now Hoops Wire, but he's written for many places in the past, wrote a story about the current state of Kevin Durant and Brooklyn and their efforts to try to trade him. Recently, Adrian Woj Naurowski from ESPN said the Nets are still trying to find a deal. But Sam Amico wrote as part of his story that the Phoenix thing is pretty much done because they re-signed DeAndre Dayton after matching an offer from Indiana.

So they're probably out on Durant. Miami probably doesn't have enough for Durant. Those were the two places he wanted to go. And Sam Amico wrote the following. Several sources have told him to keep an eye on the wizards who could make a major push. Durant's a DC product. He may not be upset about playing at home alongside Bradley Beale. Well, that would certainly be a change of heart and mind.

You know, KD to D.C. 2016 style. He didn't even give Ernie Grunfeld a meeting. He didn't even give Ernie Grunfeld and Ted a chance to pitch him. He didn't want to come home. So that would be kind of the first surprise is if Durant was more open to coming home. Do I think he is? I have no idea. He wanted a trade right before free agency began because he thought Phoenix in particular could make a move for him.

They didn't. You know, how many teams legitimately are now, capable of trading for Durant, where he'd actually want to go. Now, he doesn't have a choice. He doesn't have a no trade clause, and he's got four years left on his deal. And as I've said from the jump, if I'm Brooklyn, I am not trading him for anything other than a massive return. I gave him everything he wanted all along, and now he's going to have to understand that we're just not going to trade him to his preferred destination if the preferred destination isn't making us whole in the process.

if Durant now realizes, oh, trading me is more problematic than I thought. Bradley Beal just signed this big deal. I know I haven't wanted to go home, and he hasn't. He has not wanted to come back to D.C. and play in his hometown. You know, lots of players feel that way. But maybe now Durant's thought is, well, with Bradley Beale and whatever would be left over after the trade back to Brooklyn, we can contend in the east. East.

I personally don't believe it'll happen. My position is that he will end up in Brooklyn with Kyrie Irving, with Ben Simmons, with Joe Harris back, you know, and they will, you know, that's his best chance to actually contend and win a championship in the short term. And he's going to have to just hope that Kyrie Irving, and it's a big hope, becomes an actual, you know, good teammate and a guy that is more reasonable and joins everybody on earth to live out, you know, and try to live up to a $36 million player option. I still think that that is the most likely outcome, and it would be the one I would wager on,

and I'm not giving the Wizards a significant chance. but I did think that that report was interesting because we've mentioned it here and there that if all of a sudden there aren't a lot of obvious places, should Washington go after it? Should they go all in and try to convince them? Now, the big problem is they don't probably have enough. They have a protected lottery pick next year, part of the wall deal to Houston for Westbrook. Now, if Kevin Drant comes here, they're not going to be in the lottery. So Brooklyn would get that pick.

But you'd have to give several future first-round picks. And then Porzingis would have to be the absolute that Brooklyn would have to want and take back because his contract would get you at least most of the way to Durant's contract. You'd still have to throw in guys like Denny Evdia, Corey Kisper, you know, perhaps a Rui Hachamura. but you still could be left with a Kyle Kuzma and a Will Barton and a Monti Morris and a Daniel Gafford and a Bradley Beal and a Kevin Durant. And that team would be a contender. It would in the East. And it would be one of the most exciting things to happen to D.C. sports in a long, long time.

I know that I've been harsh on Kevin Durant over the years at times, but I think that, you know, know, his sensitivity to criticism has been, you know, to me, beneath him and beneath his greatness, the constant sort of chase for whatever he's chasing and the sensitivity to the criticism of him joining up with a winner already and, you know, all of that stuff. I think there's been, you know, justifiable criticism. But I've said this before, that Kevin Durant in Brooklyn, his performance last summer, in the playoffs against Milwaukee, when he, you know, had a 49, 17 and 10 game in game 5 and went for 48 in game 7, two of the great individual playoff performances I've ever seen without coming out of the game, playing 48 minutes in game 5, 53 in game 7, and he was a mere toe on a three-point line away

from advancing to the Eastern Conference Finals, and he may have gotten to the NBA finals and beaten Phoenix instead of Milwaukee winning the title, it more likely than not would have happened. And then a lot of the Kevin Durant conversation actually wouldn't be happening right now if he had won it last summer with Brooklyn. But the wear and tear that he's taken in Brooklyn, playing all of those minutes and playing big time clutch games and clutch moments. And I know they got swept this year by Boston. I know he's only won one one. series since he got there. But Kevin Durant is an all-time great. A 34-year-old Kevin Durant would give any franchise contender status. The Wizards have never had that. I'm sorry, they haven't had it

since 1979. It's been 43 years. More on this coming up with Chase Hughes. Tim Kirchen next. Before that, though, I did want to mention this because so many of you sent me the link to the Madden 23 ratings for wide receivers. They grade out all the wide receivers in the league. And we've had so many conversations over the last, you know, two months about Terry McClure and where he falls on the list. And nothing is going to change my mind that he is somewhere in that, you know, 11 to or 12 to 15 range.

The ESPN, Jeremy Fowler stuff where they've been ranking all the positions with, you know, input from 50 team execs, coaches, players, you know, had them at 13th. That seemed totally right for me, right around there. I'm excited about Terry McCorn being back. You know, this has never been about criticizing Terry McClorn. It's about, you know, a sports conversation about where he really is. And, by the way, where he really is now may be different from where he really is

this time next year or this time in two or three years. but the Madden 23 ratings had him tied for the eighth, excuse me, the eighth best receiver in the game. They graded out Adams is a 99, Cooper Cup is a 98, Tariq Hill is a 97, DeAndre Hopkins is a 96, Stefan Diggs as a 95. Those were your top five. And then Justin Jefferson was next at a 93. Mike Evans was a 92 and then Keenan Allen and Terry McCorn tied for eighth with a 91 rating on Madden 23.

Amari Cooper was 10th. That was your top 10. Many of you wanted me to know that. I appreciate you sending it to me. They're not going to just allow him to use his Madden rating when they open up with Jacksonville

on September 11th. But it's another, you know, subjective discussion about Terry McLorn. And a lot of you have said over and over again, you think Terry McCorn's a top five and certainly a top 10 receiver. And so I guess, you know, here's your proof. It's not proof, it's subjective, but there is some other entity that agrees with you. Fine. Do you know what receivers are outside the top 10? I mean, let's be honest here for a moment.

They have Jamar Chase is the 20th rated wide receiver in the NFL. That's a joke. If you gave me the choice right now of Terry McClureen or Jamar Chase, I wouldn't have to think more than a quarter of a second before I said, Jamar Chase, thank you. I'll take him. Jamar Chase is already a dominant receiver in the NFL. Terry McLaren's never been described as, dominant, and I don't know that he ever will be. He'll always be described as very good,

if not great. Maybe elite. Dominant, no. Like, takes over a game, no. Jamar Chase takes over a game. Devante Adams can take over a game. Tariq Hill obviously can take over a game. You know, I was having this conversation with Brendan, my producer on the radio this morning, and we talked about like players who take wide receivers who can take over a game. And I said it's Devante Adams to re-kill Hopkins. You know, to me, Jamar Chase, without question, is in that conversation. I think D.K. Metcalf has that potential. D. Bo Samuel, for sure.

D.bo Samuel, on this list, all right? On this list came in ranked 14th. If you gave me the choice, sorry, I'm taking Debo Samuel over McLaren. A.J. Brown came in 18th. Two spots ahead of Jamar Chase. That's a joke. But 10 spots behind Terry McLorn. I don't think that's right.

That's my opinion. I think A.J. Brown, I've watched him take over a game before. I don't think Cooper Cup, who's the number two, though, on this list is a guy that's capable of taking over. a game, even though statistically, when you look at it, there are games where he kind of took the game over. But anyway, congratulations to all of you that are convinced that this is now proof that you are right that Terry McLaurin is a top 10 receiver. Subjective people, I don't think he's top 10, but it's no knock on him. We are in the era of great, great wide receivers. There are so many of them. On the Madden ratings, like if you

just go outside the top 20. You know, you find receivers like Mike Williams at 22, C.D. Lamb at 24. You know, a guy like Jalen Waddle, who we may have way up on the list next year, at 28. I'll tell you who's a guy that could really have a breakout season is Cortland Sutton with Russell Wilson at quarterback. Devante Smith is 31st in their rankings. I mean, just unbelievable talent and stars at the wide receiver position, all time. And we're not even looking at the guys that are coming into the league this year. All right. Tim Kirchen next, right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

All right, let's welcome on to the podcast, one of the greats, ESPN's Tim Kirchian. Bethesda born and raised one of WJ's all-time greats. That would be Walter Johnson High School for those not. hip to lower Montgomery County High School trivia. Tim is with us to discuss the Nats, obviously, but really the reason anyone's talking about the Nats these days, their right fielder won Soto. So, Tim, before we get into kind of some Soto discussion

and specific Soto discussion, this team, less than three years ago, it was less than three years ago. They won a World Series. and since then they have been over 500 on just two dates, and that came midway through the season last year. They've been a bad team. What happened? Well, they traded Trey Turner and Max Scherzer.

They lost Anthony Rendon to free agency. By the way, the only player ever to finish in the top three of the MVP for a world championship team and then not start the next season with that team. That's how stunning it was or how strange it is that a world champion star like that would leave without playing another game for the world champion. And then, of course, Straussberg got hurt and put all of that together. This is a classic rebuild, and it rebuilds take time. and that's why the nationals are in the trouble they're in.

So here we are with Juan Soto. Do what you do as well as anybody. Put his first four, four and a half seasons, whatever it's been, ages 19 through 23 in historical perspective. Well, it's one of the greatest first four years in Major League history for anyone that young. It's one thing to put up. numbers like that when you're 23 to 27. But when you're 19 to 23, it's virtually impossible to do what he has done. As we know, there have been three 20-year-olds to hit cleanup in a World Series game, Ty Cobb, Miguel Cabrera, and Juan Soto. And for him to be an integral player on a World

Championship team at 20 is amazing. I mean, Ted Williams is one of the few. I mean, Soto compares favorably to Ted Williams. And when you start comparing him to, for me, the second greatest hitter of all time. Now we're in a company that almost no one has been in. So with a track record like this and a future like this, because, Kevin, the plate discipline, the ability to control the strike zone is a skill. It's an art that a lot of guys never have. He had it when he was 19 and he will never lose it. That's why when you project, you know he's going to be a great hitter for many, many more years. Is he the most talented player in the game? No, he's not the most talented player in the game. I think he's the best hitter in the game. There are others who

play the outfield better than he does, who run the bases better than he does. Show A. O'Tonnie is more talented than he is because he pitches and he runs the bases and he hits. But Juan Soto, when it comes to who's the best hitter in the game, I think you could make a case. It's him. And if you're that good in an era where, you know, hitting is at such a premium because the pitching is so unbelievably good, if you can find a hitter that gets on base at that rate and can hit good pitching, that makes his value even higher as a hitter. Do you consider him, I mean, we only have 2019 to judge, but he obviously got them through the wild card game against Josh Hader,

down three to one. They were nearly dead. It's amazing, you know, we always tell you the fine line in sports, right, how close they were to be eliminating in the wild card game at home, and they end up winning a World Series. And then the big, you know, strike against the Dodgers in game five, all of the big hits throughout that postseason. How much do you think the question of what a clutch hitter he is has been answered?

Well, as you know, Kevin, in today's baseball, there is no such thing as a clutch hitter, which I totally disagree with. The big hits that he's gotten in his career is clear what a great player he is at the most important times, which is what we're looking for in all of our players. Just take Cody Bellinger on a different level. He's had some down years. He's gotten some of the biggest hits for the Dodgers during his down years. So please don't tell me there's not a clutch element to all of this.

The best players like Juan Soto get the biggest hits in the biggest times. That's why they're the best players. And everyone out there recognizes if you want to win a game, you don't pitch to Juan Soto in a key situation because he's the guy that's going to deliver. All right. Let's take the last few days chronologically. What did you, or how would you describe the Nationals offer of 440 million 15 years? Well, I think it's more than fair, and I'm not surprised at all that it was rejected by Juan Soto. is agent of course is Scott Boris and Scott Boris is out to like always to do the best for his clients

and yet at the same time set every record. Now 440 million would be a record but part of me just thinks you know half a billion dollars is where they want to go with this and maybe the only way to get to that is to go to free agency or get traded to a team that has the money to pay that. So I think that's where we are right now. I think it was a very fair offer, but mostly I think Juan Soto looks at this and says, I want to win. Where's my best opportunity to win? And if he looks at the nationals right now and says, I'm going to sign here for 15 years, I don't know how many times I'm going to win, especially in the next five years. So he has every right to look at this and say, I'm not sure my best opportunity.

to win is here. Do you think there's any number right now that Soto and Scott Boris would take, given sort of Boris's history with non-pitchers of getting to free agency? Well, if they went to $700 million, maybe he would sign right away. But again, it should be, it's supposed to be about my future and where am I going to win and where am I going to have the most fun experience playing this game? Because the fun part of it is not just making the money, it's winning. So I'm not sure there's a realistic number out there that the nationals could offer

that would make him sign right now because I think he's intrigued by playing in other places, winning in other places, and he has that right to do it. I'm just confused, Kevin, how quickly this might happen now. I've had people tell me he's going to be traded before the trade deadline this year. I've had other people tell me there is no way that they're going to be able to put together such a complicated enormous trade in only two weeks. So that's why the next two weeks is going to be all about Juan Soto and his future. Don't you think, though, I mean, this is intuitive to me, but I'll ask you, you're the expert,

that if he were to get traded to a contender, obviously three post seasons before you potentially could lose them if you don't sign them is a hell of a lot more attractive than potentially two off seasons. So that trading him now for the nationals is their best opportunity to get the biggest haul back? Yes, absolutely. And let's not forget the club is for saying. And the new owners are going to need to know what do we have our best asset or not. This will make the sale of the team so much easier if the Juan Soto situation is clear. Because the new owners don't want to come in and say, hey, we just bought the team and then made transcendent young player. That's the first thing they do.

They want the current regime to do that for them. So when they come in, they know exactly what they have, and they don't have to be saddled with, yes, the team, and then we traded Juan Soto. They don't want to start a partnership beginning like that. So that's why this is so complicated. But you're right. If you can trade him now, and let's say you trade them to the Padres, and they don't have enough money, let's say to afford him long term, At least they get him for this year and next year, and they can win a World Series, potentially, with him in May Majato and Fernandez Jr. hit one, two, three in the order.

That's why it's such an intriguing situation. You know, you mentioned something, and I was going to ask you about the ownership situation, because I don't, you seem to think, correct me if I'm wrong, that it would be more advantageous and perhaps more valuable for the prospective buyer to have the Soto situation settled rather than having to make that decision. On some level, I've thought having them could make the franchise more valuable, but having them could put that incredible expense on the books and may make it less valuable. Ultimately, netting it out, is the franchise more valuable with Soto in the fold,

Soto in question or Soto out? Well, Kevin, that's the question we're going to be asking every single day, at least for the next two weeks and maybe much longer. Personally, I think the best thing for the nationals to do, the greatest value is to trade him in the next two weeks. Get exactly what you want in return. And I mean an enormous haul. and now when new owners come in, at least it's clear.

If it's unclear whether he's with us or not moving forward, I just don't think that's the best way to sell the team. So it's a very complicated situation. The third way to look at it is we just sign the best player, the best hitter in the game for 15 years. Our number one asset is here. But if you don't think you're going to be able to sign him in two years or so, then maybe you have to move him now in order to get clarity within the organization. I understand the logic in getting the biggest call if you don't think you're going to be able to sign him now or two and a half years from now.

But I also just can't believe that it makes sense to trade Ted Williams. Kevin, your point is well made. People are going to look at this and say, you just traded the best hitter in the game, and he's 23 years old. But the dynamic isn't that easy, especially in today's day and age, especially with Scott Boris in charge of this negotiation. If he's balked at 15 for 440, where do you have to go? That's part of the problem here, and that's the confusion.

fusion in all of this, and that's why this will dominate the discussion for two weeks, if not two years. Yeah, I mean, the alternative is I have Ted Williams, and I'm going to have them for the next two and a half years, and then I'm going to try to convince him to stay at the end of the next two and a half years. But we suck this year, but maybe next year will be a little bit better, and who knows, maybe in 2024, Cade Cavali and, you know, maybe a healthy Steven Strzbrough, who knows, a couple of other pitchers and maybe we can contend.

But I understand the alternative part of this, and that is, you know, you may not think you're a contender the next two and a half years in to try to get the hall. Who is the likely trade partner or partners for them before the second? Well, again, that's what we're going to be talking about for two weeks. Obviously, the Yankees and the Dodgers are high on the list because they have more money than anyone else, and they have resources to trade. The question is, anyone would want and need Juan Soto,

but are they willing to give what it's going to take to get him right now when they have the best record in the league, and to me they're the two best teams in baseball? I think you look at, say, the Mets and the Braves, they would certainly want him, but I can't see how or why the nationals would trade him within the division. which brings, you know, the Cardinals into play, but can they afford him long turn? The Padres into play, who I think, again, we're all guessing here, that they make the most sense because they have an aggressive owner who has a lot of money. They have a wildly aggressive general manager who needs to add one more piece

because they are not a good offense team right now. But with their pitching, if they added Soto to their team, they suddenly could challenge the Dodgers in the National League with the top of the order that would be ridiculous if Fernando Tatee's Jr. comes back healthy. Those are just some of the possibilities. And these next few weeks are going to be wild to figure out what team fits best. All right. Last one. If they do what you're suggesting and what a lot of people are starting to believe will happen, they trade Juan Soto. Tim, what does it say about Washington, what does it say about this organization, that two

position player generational talents, Bryce Harper and Juan Soto, didn't stay? Boy, you ask really tough questions, Kevin, but they're all legitimate. If we look 20 years down the road at where Bryce Harper's career is and where Juan Soto's career is, and both of them are in the Hall of Fame. It's going to be really difficult to justify. Those guys were on the same team at the same time. How can this happen? And again, this is where ownership has to be accountable for what's going on,

but it's just such a strange collection of great players in a spot at the same time. And they made an offer to Harper, and he didn't want to stay. and maybe it wasn't a good enough offer. They've made an enormous offer for Soto, and maybe it's not a good enough offer. So I think they're trapped in a very difficult spot, and people are going to look back at these few years in Washington and say, how could they let those guys get away? But as we said, it's just not that simple.

Not everyone just has $440 million lying around to give to somebody, or in this case, $500 million. I appreciate you doing this. Tim's out in L.A. for the All-Star game, which happens tonight, was there for the Home Run Derby last night. At Kirchin underscore ESPN, he's the best, and that was great. Hope you're well, and we'll talk somewhere down the road. Thanks, Tim.

Okay, Kevin. Talk to you soon. Always great when we can have Tim Kirchin on the show. All right. Up next, I mentioned in the open there was a report about Kevin Durant and the Wizards. This isn't 2016. This is 2022. We'll find out what Chase Hughes, who covers the team for NBC Sports. Washington thinks when we return, right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

So late last night this morning, I don't know when I saw it, Sam Amico, a longtime NBA reporter who now writes for Hoops Wire, put out a story about Kevin Durant and the issues that the nets are having in trying to trade Kevin Durant to Phoenix to Miami, which were his two top preferred destinations. And in that story, he wrote the following, quote, several sources have told HoopsWire, that's his who he writes for, to keep an eye on the wizards who could make a major push. Durant is a DC product too. he may not be upset about playing home alongside Bradley Beale.

So let's bring in or on to the podcast. Chase Hughes, everybody knows who Chase is. Chase covers the Wizards for NBC Sports Washington. You can follow him on Twitter at Chase Hughes, NBCS. You know, it's funny because I ended up midway through a call segment this morning on this on radio. somebody sent me a link to a story that you wrote shortly after the draft that essentially said, this is kind of a pipe dream, it's impossible, the Wizards don't have enough, which is kind of what I said when Durant looked, you know, announced that he wanted to be traded.

I'm like, the Wizards don't have enough. They've got a protected pick. You know, they just don't have enough. And yet here we are, a couple of weeks later, Chase, and Brooklyn doesn't have an obvious trade partner. what do you make of this story? Do you think it has any legs? Well, first of all, I do believe the wizard are interested in Kevin Duran. Woj reported that more than half the league had expressed interest. We know the Wizards tried to get him in the past.

I think there would be several hurdles involved. One of them being, has Kevin Durant changed his mind from six years ago when he wouldn't even give them a meeting? We all remember that story. and if he would come to Washington, can the Wizards put together a commensurate trade package? I think if it was an open bidding, it might be difficult for them to do that.

In order to match the money, Christaps Wrozingis would have to be involved. Do the Nets want Christaps Porzingis? Would Christaps Forzingis and a collection of young players and a few first-round picks get it done? I don't know. I think the Rudy Gober trade is really interesting in terms of how it could affect the market.

for star players and how it could affect the Wizards in particular in the short term because they gave up so many first-round picks the Minnesota Timberwolves did that I think a lot of people around the league are wondering what's going to be the price for a player who's younger or even better than Rudy Gobert. And the Wizards, of course, have their next four first-round picks tied up in protections due to the John Wall-Russle-Westbrook trade. So it seems like if that type of market is going to affect any team, it would affect the Wizards in the short term. But certainly if Kevin Durant would come here, if his mind has changed

over the last six years, the wizard should make a major push because he would instantly make some title contenders. Yes, this is what's exciting about it. But at the same time, being practical, my guess is right now, and I don't want to bury the lead here, but I want your prediction first, and then we can go through all of the, you know, hypotheticals and maybe distant possibilities. Knowing that Phoenix is probably dead in the water at this point for Durant, Miami doesn't have enough. I think he's going to stay in Brooklyn because if I'm Brooklyn, I don't trade Kevin Durant unless I get an Anthony Davis type of hall for him, and I don't know that anybody's going to do that. So my guess is that he's going to end up playing in Brooklyn next year, perhaps with Kyrie Irving and Ben Simmons,

and Joe Harris back, and that's his best chance to actually contend. Do you agree with that or not? At this point, I would lean towards him being in Brooklyn, but I think if he gets traded, I think the team to watch is Toronto. They've done this type of trade before with Messiahe Ujiri in charge of their front office, trading for Kauai Leonard with the Spurs. That was a major risk. They only had him for one year, but they won a championship, so it paid off.

If you're talking about a team that can offer, or if you're talking about an offer that would require good young players, very few teams could compete with what Toronto could offer and then still keep good players on that roster enough to build a contender around Kevin Durant. I mean, even if Scotty Barnes, the rookie of the year, wasn't involved, and Fred Van Blee, stayed in Toronto, they could offer Pascal Siakum, all-MBA player, or Oji Annanobi, a guy who looks like he has all-star potential.

they've also got first round picks and Kevin Durand has said some nice things about Toronto and their atmosphere in the past I believe at one point he grew up and he liked Trace McGrady in those days of the Toronto Raptors so I think they'd be a team to watch because of their history and what they can offer Portland you know it seems like Damian Lillard is pretty

motivated to get him there just going off that Photoshop picture put on Instagram I agree with Phoenix But there are going to be some teams out there. A lot of teams that would be interested in some teams that could offer quite a bit for them. So why do you think there hasn't been any progress made? I think the asking price has been just too high. And I think the Brooklyn Nets probably are smart to take their time and wait for a good deal.

I mean, they've got this situation. It's just remarkable the trajectory of them from where they were when those guys first got there. Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving. They built this culture around late draft picks and diamonds in the rough, and they attracted those guys, and then here they are just a few years later, and they're facing the prospect of blowing it up entirely. Of course, they made the James Hardin trade and the Ben Simmons trade. So I would imagine they feel like it's in their best interest to just let the dust settle a little bit

and wait until they get the best deal. But I think the price is going to have to come down. I mean, we heard initially that, you know, for instance, in talks with Phoenix, they wanted, like, Devin Booker. If I were the sons, I would not give up Devin Booker. I mean, he's a star player who's much younger than Kevin Durant. And same thing if I was the Raptors, if they were asking for Scottie Barnes, did it as Durant is, and as young as Barnes is, I wouldn't give him up because I think Scottie Barnes could be an all-star, you know, nine or ten times. And he's only going into his second year.

So I think the asking price is probably too high at this point. You know, you mentioned the Rudy Gobert trade. And then, you know, as you were just discussing, and by the way, if I'm Brooklyn again, not to beat a dead horse, but I would be looking for an Anthony Davis kind of haul back or I'm not doing it. He's under contract. I gave him every single thing he asked for. And I'm not going to impact my franchise in a negative way by accommodating him once more. If I accommodate him, it's going to be because I ended up somehow, at least with, you know, a chance to come out of the trade the winner. But you mentioned the Kauai Leonard trade from 2018. I remember at the time, Chase, I said, I would trade the entire team for Kauai Leonard. It didn't matter what he was in San Antonio. You and I both know, if you don't have a superstar top five-ish kind of player, you don't have a chance to win a title. And you really don't have much of a chance to even contend for one. You've got to go back to 2004 and the Pistons. to find a team that won the title 18 years ago without an obvious top five-ish kind of player.

And the Wizards don't have one, and they haven't had one forever. Do you know what that Kauai Leonard trade brought back to San Antonio? Do you remember? Margarozen and Jakub Pertil. And a first-round pick, but Toronto got Kauai and Danny Green. Like, we're talking about a completely different kind of package, just for, four years later. I mean, it really, I know, you know, I know that there was some questions about Kauai

because there he was essentially saying, I'm upset and angry with the most respected franchise in the sport with the most respected head coach. And maybe, you know, this looks, maybe it looked bad at the time on Kauai. But still, I mean, it really, I mean, it was, it was Derozen for Lent. really what, you know, essentially was the trade. And people at the time, because I read about this early this morning before the radio show, people in Toronto were split and Kyle Lowry was incensed because DeMarrozen was the guy that, you know, he had played in the back court with forever and was one of his best friends.

He was not happy about it. It's kind of strange. Four years later, we're talking about, you know, the Rudy Gobert trade and all of the picks and, you know, et cetera. Right, so you think Toronto and other teams still have a shot. Let's talk and circle back to the Wizards. If Durant, and this is a big if, if he were open for the first time that we would know of, to being a Washington wizard, coming home and being a wizard, how would the deal get pulled off?

What would be in the deal that could possibly entice Brooklyn? Well, I think Corzingis would have to be the centerpiece just financially because he makes close to $34 million. And Kevin Durant has a salary of $44 million for next year. You've got to match the money. The money would match if it was Christop's Porzingis, Rui Hachemura, and Dennyovcia. And then I think on top of that, you'd have to trade basically as many first-round picks as you possibly can, which I think you can go eight drafts in the future. and the first few were tied up in that trade.

So maybe you could toss in two first-round picks on top of those three players. That might be about as good as the Wizards could do. Maybe Gafford gets thrown in there because he doesn't make very much so that you could match the money pretty easily. But I think it would be Porzinga, whatever young players, the Nets want, and then how many first-round picks you can possibly part with? So what would, I agree with you, it's got to be Porzengis. Beal's got the no trade clause.

Let's not forget about that. He could wave it. And by the way, let me just be clear, I would trade whatever Brooklyn wanted or attempt to trade whatever Brooklyn wanted for Kevin Durant and then try to build around him. But obviously the appeal, I think for Durant, if he came here, would be, if he changed his mind, would be to play with Bradley Beale. So let's just say Brooklyn was okay with Porzingis. with Avdia, with Rachamura, with Hachamura, with maybe a Kispert, and several first-round picks into the future. Next year's is protected, and it would probably be next year's pick.

If you have Durant, you're probably not going to be in the lottery next year. So it would probably be next year's pick, and then the other picks would free up because they wouldn't have the restrictions on it based on what happens next year. So let's just say it was something that Brooklyn decided, you know what, we're willing to do that. We get all these picks. We get a couple of good young players. What would a team in Washington with Kevin Durant, Bradley Beal, Kyle Kuzma, Daniel Gafford, Monta Morris. I'm just ripping off, you know, a potential starting five. Will Barton,

you know, still there. Kispert may be still there or maybe he's part of the deal. Where does that team fit in in the East? I think they vault right to the top or near the top. I mean, Boston's going to be very difficult, of course. They made the finals last year, and they have a chance to get better, and they had a really good off season. The Milwaukee Bucks should be better than last year. Chris Middleton is healthy, and they've got, in my estimation,

the best player in the game. So I don't think the Wizards immediately go to the top, but I think they enter that top mix. Bradley Biel and Kevin Durant would be a basically unstoppable score, duo and Kyle Kuzma would be in the same role essentially that he was in L.A. behind LeBron and Anthony Davis, and that worked. I mean, he was essentially the third guy on a title team. I think he knows that role very, very well. If you could keep, you know, Daniel Gafford as your center to just kind of clean up on the back end and block shots and rebound and set

screens and throw lobs and, you know, Monti Morris would be, I think, a perfect point guard for that type of lineup because he would just set the table and spread the floor with his shooting. I think that would be a really, really good team. Obviously, depth would be the first question I think you ask once for Dust settles. You see what you have left. But you can add depth. I mean, if you build a team that players around the league see as someone that can win a title, guys will want to join that. And then, of course, you can go up to the trade deadline and operate accordingly. So I think as a core, they would have a core that would contend for a championship, No question.

Do you believe that Ted and Tommy, if they got wind, that Durant wouldn't resist a trade, would be all in? I think so. Yeah, I do think so. I think they've been waiting to kind of go after something like that. They've kind of methodically followed this plan since Tommy Shepard took over where, you know, they've, as he says, built a foundation. They've kept their draft picks and they've built around Bradley Deal. But he has said over and over, he's not afraid to take big swings. And I think to a certain extent he's taken a couple of them.

You know, trading John Wall for Russell Westbrook was a bit risky. And then, of course, it was a big trade, trading Westbrook to the Lakers. And both of those trades worked out pretty well for them. And he might argue that acquiring Kirstap's Gingis was a big swing. But this is the type of move that I think he is preparing for or has been preparing for. You know, he said when he took over the job that Jerry West told him, them don't ever be afraid to take big swings. And I think this would be a perfect example of what Jerry West was talking about.

What would it do for the franchise? I mean, I think it would immediately put them on the map to a degree that they haven't been, I don't know, maybe in my lifetime. I mean, actually, you probably have to go back to Michael Jordan being here, of course, where they sold out every night and, you know, you could travel the country and see wizard's jerseys in every city, essentially, because, They were everyone's favorite team for two years because they had Michael Jordan, but they were winning, what, 37, 38 games? They weren't going to the playoffs.

Kevin Durant, if he stayed healthy, obviously injuries have been an issue for him, would pretty much guarantee you going to the playoffs and probably going pretty far if Brad the deal also stayed healthy. So I think they'd have a level of relevancy that would surpass pretty much anything that they've had in a long, long time. I think it would pass anything that they had with John Wall or honestly even anything they had with Gilbert Arenas. I know it peaked pretty high when he was playing really well, but I don't think anything would compare to what Kevin Durant would bring to the city in terms of excitement around the wizard. Yeah, the only thing that's comparable, I agree with you, would be Jordan, but Jordan was, what, 38 or 39, obviously. It was different, yeah. Yeah, I think this would be a, they would sell out immediately the season ticket base. it would be one of the difficult tickets to get, certainly in that first year and to your point,

they would launch to, I don't know if it would be the top of the east with Milwaukee and Boston and, you know, even the heat, but they would certainly be considered one of the top three to four contenders to go to the NBA championship for the first time, really since, well, in 43 years. That was the last time they won two series. So exit question for two years. Chase Hughes from NBC Sports Washington as we've, you know, tossed this around. On the, you know, percent chance, percent probability scale, what would you give it? Probably pretty low just because of all the things that would have to happen for it to occur. I'd probably put it at five to 10 percent.

And that's, you know, you might argue that's higher than somebody expect me to say. It's just a lot of stars would have to align. But it would be. fun if they did. You agree, though, that Sam Amico is a credible reporter and that what he reported is there's probably some smoke around the Wizards for whatever reason. I think, sure, yeah, I think it's worth discussing at a minimum. Well, you know what, on July 19th, when they're in the middle of All-Star Week, Chase, it's definitely worth discussing in the line of work that I am in. Thank you for doing. Although Juan Soto,

Juan Soto was pretty good, wasn't he? He was really good. And that's been a part of the show today as well. Thanks for doing this. Feel better. Chase is getting over. Actually, do you even want me to mention what you were getting over or not? No, go ahead.

Yeah, Chase is recovering from COVID. Yeah, he was out in Vegas. And Vegas. Yeah, he's recovering from Vegas. And, oh, by the way, this thing they call COVID. Many of us when we get back from Vegas need a short vacation from that vacation. Thanks for doing this. Really appreciate it.

Talk to you soon. Exactly. No problem. Anytime. All right. Thanks to Chase. Thanks to Tim Kirchen. That's it for today.

Tomorrow more football talk, including at least one guest, Kurt Badenhausen, who writes for Sportico, wrote a story about the revenues just exploding in the NFL. And we'll find out where Washington kind of ranks on the list. list of the 32 teams after the television dollars. So we'll do that and a lot more tomorrow.