The Kevin Sheehan Show - Tourney Title Formula + Logan Paulsen

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

Kevin provided his annual NCAA Tournament "Winner Formula" producing a group of four teams that can win it all. Logan Paulsen jumped on to talk Commanders' off-season. Logan ranked Laremy Tunsil among O-linemen in the NFL and also discussed what might come next.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Logan Paulson's going to join me on the show. We'll talk a lot of football. Get his thoughts on Washington's offseason so far.

Logan Paulson coming up in the next segment. He will likely stick around for the final segment of the show as well. A show who's presenting sponsor, as always, is Windon Nation. 86690 Nation or windownation.com if you need new windows. This from Carlisle, Carlisle writes, Kevin, I'm not sure if you expected this, but I would do the Borough Hendrickson for Jaden Daniels trade. That is a two-for-one elite elite-eat. given away. Thank you, Carlisle. For those that don't know what Carlisle is talking about,

I read the email that I got on yesterday's show from JC, who suggested that Burrow and Hendrickson for Jaden Daniels would be a hell of a trade, Cincinnati not looking to spend all of that cash. Well, they've already spent a lot of that cash already on the two receivers. And it's possible they'll spend it on Trey Hendricksson as well. I would never do that trade. There is nobody in the league, honestly, at this point that I would trade Jaden Daniels for. Even though I wouldn't put Jaden Daniels right now as the number one quarterback, I would still more likely than not have Mahomes at the top of the list. I'd certainly have Josh Allen and Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson as part of the conversation. But I think two years from now, we may all be saying

Jaden is the best quarterback in the NFL. We're certainly more than just top five. Maybe he's top three or top two. I have that faith that that can happen. There's no guarantee, obviously, but there's no way I'm trading away a 24-year-old coming off of that season with the kind of potential that I think he has, even though it would be a two-for-one elite and elite for just one elite. But thank you, Carlisle, for the note. The NCAA tournament gets underway in just about an hour from now. There's a 16 versus 16 game, and then you get North Carolina, the controversial last team in the field against San Diego State. So two of of the first four games tonight. No smell test pick on either game tonight. North Carolina is a

four and a half point favorite over San Diego State. Remember, they were in the national championship game two years ago losing to Yukon. There is more public money on the heels. There's also a lot of sharp money I've been told on North Carolina. That line's gone up from three, three and a half to four and a half. So no smell test pick for tonight, maybe one for tomorrow night. Certainly there will be smell test picks for Thursday, Friday, and then I will tweet out the smell test picks over the weekend for the Saturday and Sunday games. But with the tournament about to get underway this evening,

I have gone through my annual exercise of narrowing the field from 68 down to. to a much smaller number of teams that can actually win the tournament. This is a formula that I put together four or five years ago. It is mostly objective. There is a subjective part of this. And a lot of this stuff you've heard of in some shape or form. I've got four different criteria. And it starts with something that Gary Williams said,

to me many, many years ago. He said, you can win four games in the NCAA tournament if you are an okay offensive team and a good defensive team. But to win six, you have to be able to score. Like, you got to be able to score in the top 15% of teams in the country. So that is my first sort of elimination criteria. If you're not top, 15% in the nation in scoring, you can't win the national championship. You can, and it's happened, but of the last 19 NCAA tournament champions, 16 of those 19 have been a top 15% scoring team, top 15% with 364 division one teams means you've got to be a top 15% scoring team. You've got to be in the top 55 in scoring. There are 28 of the 68 teams that are in the top 55 scoring-wise in

the country. They are. Alabama, Gonzaga, Florida, Kentucky, Akron, Missouri, Auburn, Illinois, Duke, High Point, Arizona, Maryland, Bryant, Yale, New Mexico, BYU, Texas Tech, Utah State, North Carolina, Iowa State, Memphis, UC San Diego, Mississippi State, Wisconsin, Vanderbilt, UNC Wilmington, Lipscomb, and Grand Canyon, Maryland's first round opponent. 28 of the 68 teams finished in the top 15% of scoring teams in the country, a criteria that has produced 16 of the last 19 NCAA tournament champions. From that list, you go to offensive efficiency.

Ken Palm's offensive efficiency adjusted rating. you got to finish in the top 10 to make it on this list to the third criteria, which I'll get to in a moment. So of those 28 teams, only six of them finished in Ken Palm Top 10 adjusted offensive efficiency. Those teams are Duke, Florida, Alabama, Texas Tech, Gonzaga, and Iowa. state. All right. Just six left out of the 68 through those first two criterion.

Is that the plural of criteria? I think it is criterion. The third gets into, yes, it's objective, but the actual category itself is kind of made up by me in that I think even today in the college game, guard play and three-point shooting is critical to winning the tournament. You've got to be led by your guards in scoring. So I am now looking for teams of the six that are left, Duke, Florida, Alabama, Texas Tech, Gonzaga, and Iowa State.

I am looking for the teams in which two of their top three scorers, are guards or wings. They are perimeter players. Out of those six teams, Duke has two of their top three scorers as guards and or wings perimeter players. So does Florida, Alabama, Texas Tech, Gonzaga, and Iowa State. All six teams that were top 15% scoring teams, and top 10 offensive efficiency teams per Ken Palm are also led by their guards or wing players. Cooper Flagg does a little bit of everything, but Tyrese Proctor and Knapple, if you're thinking about Duke,

and if you're thinking about Florida for sure. But all of those teams, you can make the case that two of their top three scores are more perimeter-oriented than any. else. You could make the case, by the way, at this point. The game is just more perimeter-oriented. And if you are a high-scoring team and an efficient team that you end up being led by guard play. But guard play has been the catalyst over the years. By the way, in Ken Palm's top 10, my second criteria, 17 of the last 20 champions have finished top 10. in offensive efficiency rating. I don't think I mentioned that. So top 15% scoring teams,

16 of the last 19 champions. Top 10 offensive efficiency and Ken Palm, 17 of the last 20 champions have come from that. And excellent guard play, all six of my remaining teams advance to the final, very subjective. I'm looking for a team that is well-coached, that I consider to be well-coached. Now, I'm not going to lie to you. I haven't

followed the college game this year as much as I have in previous years. So I did go to multiple lists to sort of back up my thoughts on some of these six remaining coaches. I can tell you right now that among the six teams remaining, I don't have a favorite coach in that group. Like my favorite coaches right now in the tournament would be Matt Painter at Purdue, Kelvin Sampson at Houston, Tom Izzo at Michigan State. I love Rick Petino, always have as a coach. I love Rick Barnes. I've always loved Rick Barnes as a coach at Tennessee.

I love the St. Mary's coach, Randy Bennett, have loved him for years. And I really do like Beard, who was at Ole Miss. He was at Texas Tech a few years ago. Then went to Texas, had those issues, brought Texas Tech, if you recall, to the National Championship game. Those are like when I was just writing down of the coaches in the field. Those are my favorite coaches. There are other guys I really like.

I like McKronin a lot at UCLA. I like Kevin Willard a lot. I think he's an excellent coach. in terms of teams that are in the tournament. I think Dusty May is doing a pretty good job at Michigan, and he did take Florida Atlantic to a final four. But out of the six teams remaining here, there are guys that are ranked high on lists.

I'm not totally sold on John Shire being an excellent X's and O's coach, but he's pretty good. I think Todd Golden's done a nice job at Florida. I'm not a Nate Oates guy. I just am not a big Nate Oates Alabama guy. I know a lot of people who love Nate Oates. He's so transfixed by analytics in particular. And look, Alabama's been to the Sweet 16 in three of the last four years.

They don't play good defense, though. They're a bad defensive team. Mark Few is definitely on the list of these six teams. Mark Few is an excellent basketball coach, so I move Gonzaga into that final group. And T.J. Otsleberger's been at Iowa State now for a few years, and he has done a phenomenal job. If you looked at that program that he inherited, they were horrible. And he's taken Iowa State to three straight NCAA tournament appearances, including two Sweet 16s. now they're very good defensively.

They're pretty good offensively too, obviously based on the criteria that I've just gone through. They've got, you know, some injuries that they are dealing with. But in terms of this criteria, I would put Osselberger and Iowa State onto that list. And I would, even though I'm not a massive fan of Shire, I think he's good. I would put Duke and I would put Florida on that list. That would be the list. I am really not super familiar with Grant McCasland at Texas Tech. So of those six that made it through, Guard play, Duke, Florida, Alabama, Texas Tech, Gonzaga, and Iowa State, I'll go with few in Gonzaga. Iowa State, I understand with the injuries, and I would not necessarily pick them to win the tournament.

But based on this, and Otselberger, Shire and Duke, Golden, and Florida. So those are your four teams based on this, you know, exercise. My NCAA tournament winner criteria, four teams, Gonzaga, Iowa State, Duke, and Florida. The winner will come from that group. All right? Of course, when I go through my bracket, I probably will have Houston winning the whole thing. I love Houston.

I love Duke, too. I don't love Duke. I think Duke is really good. But that would be a semi-final matchup, a Duke-Huston final-four matchup if they both make it. Now, Houston will have to face Gonzaga, potentially in the second round, if Mark Fuse team can get by Georgia on Thursday afternoon. All right. Let's get to Logan Paulson. We'll do that right after.

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Take advantage of when donations buy-to get-to free deal right now where you don't have to pay anything for two full years. them at 86690 Nation or head to windownation.com. Joining me right now is one of my favorite people to have on the show. Logan Paulson is here, former tight end for the team, former tight end with multiple teams. And of course, he does great work as an analyst for the Washington commanders YouTube channel and Washington commanders.com. So, you know, we're at that point in the season where there's a lot of, well, you know, hopefully it's the right fit for this player. It's the right scheme for this player.

You get asked all the time, you know, about how it's going to work out. You know, for me, I don't know about you. I just prefer talking about games, you know, on Mondays and Tuesdays about the game that just happened. And on Thursdays and Fridays about the upcoming game, it's just a lot more fun than, you know, kind of projecting and speculating because so much of it, you know, sometimes deals with, you know, right place, right time. What's your favorite thing to do? Would you rather be talking about games or is this time of the year, you know, a good challenge for you? Yeah, I mean, obviously I enjoy tremendously like talking games and things like that. But I also think that this time of

year is really fun because I think it shows you the other side of the coin and how to build a team, how to build sustained success. And every year, every team has a seemingly a different approach. There does seem to be kind of like universal tenants, but it's like, you know, in this situation, you can buck that trend because you've got a young quarterback or you've got a veteran offensive line or whatever. And it just kind of depends on the situation.

I think that's something that I find so fascinating, is building a team, acquiring talent, improving the roster, you know, making a playoff push, like, and how every year and every team kind of seems to do it a little differently depending on, you know, their financial restrictions or whatever it may be. So I really enjoy talking about it. Again, like I do, I sympathize with you because sometimes the fans are like, what this guy going to do?

It's like, well, I can tell you what he did at his other place, but I have no idea what this staff's going to do. I could make an assumption, but, you know, like, ultimately they're going to do what they're going to do, and that's why they're the coaches. So there's a little bit of that going on, but I do enjoy kind of seeing it all come together and kind of reading the tea leaves a little bit. You know, I think that there are positions where scheme and fit just can make a total difference in the production in one place and the production in a new place.

But I'm wondering if A, you feel the same way, and then B, if there are certain positions where it really is about scheme and fit with most players. So I remember when I was playing, I had this really interesting conversation with Sean say, and he basically, he was a young coach at the time, his position coach, tight end, clearly might have still been on the team, Chris Cooley, might have still been on team. And we were talking about guys that can play in any scheme.

And he's like, you know, there's only three or four guys on a team that are scheme agnostic. Everybody else is scheme dependent. And so when you kind of take a step back and look at it and you watch when people bring in free agencies, how this staff, you know, Adam Peters, Lance Dumark,

and Dan Quinn and all these guys value pieces. Like, you can see that there's a clear fit and a clear vision. And I think understanding that not everyone is scheme-agnostic, not everyone can do what you need to do, and honing in on those specific talent pieces, I think, is incredibly important.

And again, that's another reason why I enjoy this part of the season is, like, does the staff, depending on the team, like, I'm obviously a commander's analyst, but I watch every single team, like, do they understand, like, where the roster's at, where the teams at, this player's importance? Like, I think back to last year, for example, with, take one Barkley,

and, you know, when he left New York, and kind of, to me, it was so obvious his role in that organization. It was more than just, hey, he's a running back. No, he's like the franchise explosive playmaker that insulates Daniel Jones. And the second you get rid of him, you lose what makes that offense scary and dynamic. And that, I think, is part of the issue. And obviously he goes to Philly and the scheme there supports him because the talent on the offensive line is better. But I just think there's people think, oh, this guy's super talented you can play anywhere.

I find that's more rare than that would probably be willing to acknowledge. You know, I've had this conversation with Tim Legler before, and I don't know how much you know about Tim. Tim played in the NBA for many years. He's an analyst on ESPN. He won the three-point shooting contest in the 90s. And, you know, he had a career. There were injuries, but I've talked to him a lot about, you know,

because he was a great shooter, he could have been Steve Kerr, with Michael Jordan. Had he been signed instead of Steve Kerr? Or John Paxson, who came before him. There are lots of guys that can shoot a basketball, and it's just a matter of whether or not you get into the right situation with the right team with a great player where the defense is focused on that great player, and you can kind of just spot up and shoot threes.

So it really is sort of right place, right time for a lot of guys. and I think you're saying that, except for the guys, as I think you said, Sean McVeigh said to you, are scheme agnostic, that sometimes it's a matter of just landing in the right spot at the right time. Yeah, and I think about my own career, just how fortunate I was to be with the Shanahan. They really needed a tight end that could block outside zone. And for whatever reason, that was something that I was very, very good at. It was something I did well in college. And then obviously when Robert came in, like the amount of interest,

intellectual diversity that they put on the tight-end position. Like, I had a really strong aptitude for that because I learned five or six offenses when I was in college. So it was easy for me to kind of digest some of that stuff. So I think, like, yes. And if I had gone to a different team, like, who knows if I would have made it. And so I think that's, again, like, it's a little bit of luck, but also understanding, like, what you need at the position is also incredibly critical.

And I think the shooting analogy there's spot on. It's like, you can get a bunch of guys that can shoot the lights out in the gym. you get a bunch of guys that can run certain routes, but can I get a receiver that's going to block the way I want? Or, you know, the side adjustments to where we need them to. Like, those are things that you have to understand here. And, you know, OZ was great here last year. Noah Brown was great here last year.

The Army has a resurgence year last year because of what the quarterback's will do for them and because of their role in Cliffs' offense. And I think understanding the type of guy you need there is incredibly important when building a team and building a roster. Because, again, you don't need to go out and get the top flight no number one highest paid receiver because like that's not the skill set that we need play in that kind of number two spot opposite tarry in this offense sincerely. The last time we talked, you know, we talked about the rookie contract that Jaden is on

and taking advantage of it in this offseason, next year's off season as well, because they can't pay them until after 2026. So overall, so far, and we're just a couple of weeks into free agency and the draft is over a month away. How do you think they're doing? I mean, I think they're doing a tremendous job. I think coming into the off-season, the free agency period specifically, you know, I start my draft work right when the season ends, but looking at the draft, looking at the free agency pool,

and I was like, man, like they really have to do something on the offensive line. And that's, again, not an indictment of the guys that were here last year. I thought they played really hard. I thought they played way above their skis. But I thought Cliff also did a good job of calling games to insulate that group. I thought, oh, man, they really got to go out and get a lot of talent. But that's the problem. You look at the free-agent market. There's not a lot of guys that are going to get out of their own teams.

They're going to resign with their current teams. And so for Adam Peters to go out and make this trade for Laramie Tunsel, and then say, hey, we need to get a little bit more dynamic offensively. We need to find more explosive plays. Find Debo-Samuel. And understand that you have cash flexibility because Josh Harris is into winning. You understand what it takes to win. You can, and you have the contract,

space or the cap space, excuse me, because James and the rookie deal, you can accommodate those contracts. And then I love the other signings, too. I love the way they're thinking about signing other talent of the roster. Like Dietrich Wides, people don't know who that is, but he played from New England. He's an excellent football player for the role he's going to play here in Washington. You know, Javon Kinlaw, when you watch his top-end plays,

like he's a special athletic talent, and you can tell he's motivated to be great, he wants to be great, you can tell the type of guy his fits the culture here at a high-level resigning Bobby Wagner, resigning Zacherts. I felt the urgency of getting new talent in the building, but I also felt a really clear understanding of what made them good last year, and I'm talking about the leadership and keeping some of the continuity there. So I think I just was really blown away by the whole process,

and again, we talked about it in the last segment, about the importance of knowing who to keep and knowing when to keep and knowing what makes you good at certain spots. And I felt like this whole free agency period showed exactly that for Madame Peters and Danquin. All right. Before we get into some of those players that you mentioned are, you know, good fits and that they've done a great job. Is there anybody that you would have liked to have seen them sign that ended up signing somewhere else? So this is, again, where it goes back to me probably being a jaded guy who played 10 years in the league. I understand that there's multiple ways to fill in need, if that makes sense.

So I think a lot of people look at like the Jeremy Chin signing in Las Vegas and say, oh, no, that doesn't work for us. He did such a good job last year. All those things are true. But understanding that Harris, the safety from New Orleans, is just that same player. Like every team in the NFL has a guy or there are guys that are comparable to people that we have on our roster. I think fans get really comfortable and familiar saying, oh, you know, we want Jeremy Chinback, but Harris is, in my opinion, he plays a very similar role, plays a good box safety, he has a little bit more coverage upside.

And so in some ways, I feel like you've upgraded the position more cheaply. So that's one thing that I always kind of defer to. I, during the free agency period, there's names that get thrown about, but I love those kind of second tier, second, you know, kind of wave of free agency signings that are really, really good football players. like Jones from New England, you know, he's been New England for nine years. He's 31, 31, 32 years old, when I watch his film, I'm like, man, this dude's a good football player, and he fills a knee here, kind of being the backup swing secondary player.

He can play nickel. He can play on outside. So to me, that's maybe a little bit of a cop-out, but, like, I don't go into this period with any expectations. I say, you know, Adam Peters, his staff, they understand what they're looking for, and I always am so pleasantly surprised. where I have been, this period of these cycles.

I'm like, this guy fits what it means to be a commander. And so maybe that's why I don't get disappointed in this period because I'm always pleasantly surprised by the names that they brought in. All right. So what were they looking for and what have they found in Javon Kinlaw? Yeah, so I think he's probably the most interesting one of the group because I think everyone, it's very clear. You know, it's like, hey, this guy does this really well on first down

or this guy fits this role and this guy does this. And Ken Lott, to me, is a little bit like the mystery box. You know, I think when you look at him, like when you watch his run film from, when he was in the 49ers, when he watched his run film from early last year, when he was in New York, he said, man, he has a really hard time stopping the run. So, like, what is his superpower? What's the thing that makes him special? And you watch him on third down, and you watch him in past rushing situations.

You watch his explosive play reel, you know, kind of like tackles for loss, things like that. And you say, this guy is a unique athlete. He's 6-6, he's 320. probably 325, 330, and he moves like such a smaller man. And I think like that explosive playmaking ability along the defensive line, if Harness, could be really, really special. Obviously he's a first round pick for a reason, and we're still talking a little bit about his potential and his upside,

which always makes me a little bit nervous. But when you kind of, when you look at those explosive metrics, those explosive plays, his bull rush on third down is pressure cutups, like this is a special athlete, special mover, and with the right kind of coaching, he's wired the right way mentally. Like when you hear him talk, he is a competitive son of a gun.

He wants to be great. He wants to push himself. He is a commander. And I think couple that with the athletic upside, you say, man, this could be a really nice by-low signing for this organization. For a guy who, when you look at his last three games, the last year probably was playing his best football,

so maybe you get an appreciating asset heading into the season, and a guy with that athletic profile, They're really hard to find. You know, they kind of abide by that Bill Parcell's planet theory. Like, where there's only a couple guys on planet Earth who look like this. So I'm willing to take a little bit of a gamble on a guy with tremendous physical and athletic upside who's wired the right way from a character standpoint. Yeah, I don't think they bought low on him. I think three years, 30 million guaranteed, $45 million was a healthy number for Javon to get in this market.

So what I would say is I push back a little bit. And when I say, buy low, as I say, I look at the other interior defensive pass rushers, right? Look at Milton Williams, look at pretty much anybody else who's resigning with their team who plays interior defensive line who can rush the passer. Like, you're paying a premium for that position right now. So when I say buy low, I'm not saying buy low for Kim La, I'm saying you're buying a interior pass rusher at a below-market value that guy that I think could be appreciating into that next category. players. So that's where I say by law. Now, I agree with you. Kinlaw has not been, at least in recent history, that consistent of a player. But I do think after watching again his last year games from last season, trusting the coaching staff here and what they were able to do with

Dante Fowler last year that you could be getting something at a market value that you're going to be very happy with in a couple years. So it sounds like to me, I mean, you've pretty much said it. You see him and his superpower on this team being as a pass rush. Sure. I do. I think that's, I mean, so past rusher and then his ability to create tackles for loss, right? Because I think when you get him going the right way, when you get him penetrating a gap, like he's hard to stop.

Like when you get him going into the right direction, so to speak. So I think one of the things last year defensively is I think they had a hard time finding what I'm going to categorize is like explosive plays from a defensive perspective. So they were okay from a pressure standpoint, okay from a sack standpoint, and okay from the tackle for loss standpoint. I think this is a piece that makes you a little bit more dynamic in all of those first and second down run categories, and then on third down as well.

So, again, he is developmental. There's a lot of work to do, but I think that's what his athletic skill set gives you. Think more tackles for loss, more sacks. Think about what that does in terms of stopping drives offensively. It makes you a little bit more dynamic defensively. It forces the offense in a passing situation. I think that's ultimately the play here.

Again, at least that's from my performance. perspective. And from an interior position, not as an edge? Yeah, that's something that I'm going to leave up to Dan Quinn and the staff. I know, but what do you think? Yeah, I think that's a good question. I personally liked him playing three technique. I think he could be better in terms of stopping the run in certain situations. I think that's why you bring in a guy like Goldman, who, that is his superpower, stopping the run, sitting double teams. I think this allows you to do some more stuff from a front flexibility standpoint. You could have pains on the field with Kinlau.

You can make sure you're getting one-on-one matchups. I do think Kin-Law can play defensive end in certain situations and draw favorable matchups specifically in the run game. So I guess what I may be a long and short answer is I think that he can do both, and I think that's one of the reasons you bring him in. Right. Is that he gives you some flexibility across the front, which, again, you had last year, but this is a special piece from an athleticism standpoint.

So, yeah, could he play four-eye? Yes. Can he play five techniques? Sure. Can he play a crash five? Absolutely. And bringing that level of that photos is empowered to the front. Again, especially if you put him on the perimeter, kind of boxes it inside, makes it a little bit easier for Bobby Wagner. So, yeah, I can see him playing all the spots across the defensive line. And I think it adds value.

But I would, in answer to your question, I would see him as a higher value, the further he gets away from the ball. So when he's playing a four-eye, a five, or a six technique, so kind of true defensive end alignment. That's where I think he's probably more valuable. I mean, could you see him in their five-man fronts, which sometimes looked like a three-four last year? Could you see him as a zero technique or a one technique?

Like a nose or a shade off the center playing nose? Yeah, see, I probably would probably stay away from that. I think that's why you bring in a body like Goldman. I think Duran Payne probably does that a little bit better. I think you put him in that four-eye, kind of crash four-eye, maybe a wide three technique and say, hey, like this interior player, Goldman's going to have to deal with a double. Four-eye, just for everybody, is like, you know, it's closer to the tackle, right? But not outside the tackle.

It's between the guard and the tackle, but kind of just shading inside the tackle. Inside. Right. And so, like, yeah, basically like a wide three technique, you know, and so you really have an opportunity to penetrate that gap. Like if it's run away, you're at a good angle to kind of beat the tackle to the spot. I think about the way Kinlaw plays, and if you say, hey, penetrate this gap, and the tackle's got to cut you off, like he'll knock that tackle back into the backfield for five yards. If you say, hey, penetrate this gap and the guard's got to reach you from a four-eye spot,

he's going to penetrate the backfield. So I like him, again, like I said, I don't like him on the nose, on the center, inside the guards. I like him outside a little bit more, where he can use that burst and exposiveness to be more disruptive, I think. All right. You've kind of mentioned what you see in Goldman. You've mentioned what you see in Will Harris. Like, who's the opposite first down in 10 defensive end to Dorrance Armstrong? Yeah, I think that's a really good question. And right now, to me, it's either Cleveland Farrell or Dietrich Wise. And Dietrich Wise, I've got a soft spot in my heart. He doesn't know this. But I've loved watching his film in New England, probably for the last three or four.

four years. I think he does a really good job of he just has got a good feel for the game. And so right now I would probably lean in that direction. But I think based on contract value, what they signed for, I think it could be any one of those guys. And I think having bigger body guys in Cleland and Wise, it allows you to have some flexibility in the front in the same way Javon gives you flexibility in the front. And, you know, what even I don't know, I haven't heard this, but it wouldn't surprise me if Kinlaw is in that rotation on first down. Right. Opposite.

You know, so, like, again, they've got some interesting pieces here. On first down, I think they're fine, right? I think opposite Doran, I'm trying to think they've got a really good rotation. To me, it's where it gets a little bit nebulous is what do you do on third down. Who's the opposite guy? He's the guy opposite hand. Is it Frankie Louvo full-time? Did they draft a guy?

Do they make another move in free agency? But on first down, I feel like you've got a really nice stable of guys who are physical, go violent, play hard, and that covers up for, and they're going to do what they're supposed to do on first and second down. What do you think the plan will be? You know, let's just assume that Will Harris gets plugged into Chin's position. Kwan Martin, you know, is the other safety. How do you sort of envision with the addition of Jones, with Latimore obviously back, Sanry Still,

they re-sign Noah I? How do you see it coming together? Does Sanra still stay on the outside? Does he move inside? What is your guess on what we see in early September? Yeah, and again, I'm going to say this again, but I'm going to defer the coaching staff. But if my opinion, I would say that, like,

one of the things Jones gives you is he gives you a guy who can play outside, right? He can play outside. He can play nickel. So what I would say is it's much like bringing Laramie Tunselin and then having the ability to move Brandon Coleman around the offensive front is it gives you flexibility to get your best three or best four on the field. Like I think Noeiglinogne did a great job as the nickel player last year. He deserves a lot of credit for that.

But if we feel like Mike Sanders feels better at that spot, and Jones is a comparable corner piece on the perimeter, which I think he did a fine job. He's not great. They did a fine job of that last year. He's got a really good feel. He's got to track the football well. He still got a little bit of athletic juice in his body.

Like then let's do that. Or if we feel like Noah's playing really well at the nickel, let's keep Mike Santer so on the perimeter, and then we have a nice backup kind of depth piece in Jones. Like that's kind of where I'm starting with it. I just want to, I like that they brought in a guy who lets you get the best three on the field. Sometimes, like with the previous staff, for example,

they would just bring guys in, and that was not a huge kind of point of concern for them. And obviously we saw that that is not the best way to approach that. You want to make sure you get the best guys on the field, have some position flexibility inside outside, You've got two guys that can do that. And I think that that's ultimately what I see there and why I'm excited about that signing. All right, you mentioned Tunsell.

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It's open again until Thursday at noon-eastern. Just go to my bookie.ag and use my promo code, Kevin D.C., to play. All right, we continue with Logan Paulson, and let's focus on the biggest move of the offseason, the trade for Laramie Tunsell. I know you've broken down all of the film and you've got an opinion on what they got in this trade. So go ahead. Tell everybody what you think of Laramie Tunsell in a Washington uniform in 2025 and beyond. Yeah, I mean, I think, I mean, I was just trying to go through.

I think he's probably the sixth, sixth, sixth, seventh best offensive tackle in football right now. And I think in the right situation, he could crack the top five more consistently be a top four guy in the NFL. felt like he is a special football player. Like his comfort with a pass set, understanding the angle, understanding when the punch, understanding how to redirect and keep guys flat on rushes is really impressive. He's very, very good. I think obviously, like, he's good in the run game.

He's not great, but his ability to get out on screens, like pull, like be the athlete. Like, we just haven't had a movable chest piece like this since Trent. And I really compare them. To me, they're very similar. Trent's a better athlete. athlete. I think Laramie's a little bit of a better technician when it comes to some of the past protection stuff. Like his path that is a little bit more aesthetically pleasing in terms

of his body position, his angles, things like that. Trencice gets away with it because he's an absolute freak. So I think that's what you're getting. You're getting a guy who's technically very sound, who gives you more flexibility in the screen game, who you can pull, you can do some more diverse things in the run game with, and I think he's a special football player. And I think that that ultimately is what this offense needed to kind of help push it to the next level, right? Think about all the things that Cliff had to do last year and Bobby Johnson I do last year to protect that offensive line and past protecting situations. Like, this is a true satellite left tackle where you can say, hey, we don't have to worry

about that player. We can send the flight away. We don't need to send ship help that way. We can have the back, make sure that he's checking other pieces who need help. So I think this is a huge piece. It's going to help us get more eligible out in route concept and hopefully make the passing game more dangerous and dynamic for Jane Daniels, which is the goal, right? We want to make the offense better for our young signal caller. I think that's always something that gets overlooked is when you have a guy that you can just leave there and you don't have to help. You get often another eligible receiver out, which just makes you more dynamic passing-wise.

Where do you think – did you say, by the way, sixth or seventh best offensive linemen or tackle in the game? Well, to me, I'm going to say – I said linemen. like I meant tackle to me, it's almost synonymous. There's only a couple guards that I would even kind of put in that sphere, especially with Zach Martin retiring. Like, he's a, for sure, a top-10 offensive line in the NFL, 6, 7, 8, I think, if you include guards. Like, he's an excellent football player.

So where do you see Brandon Coleman landing? Yeah, you know, I don't, honestly, I would have said, if you would ask me this a couple weeks ago, I would have said left guard. I think, you know, Aligretti did a great job last year, but they're paying him kind of like to be a swing interior player. But then coming out of the combine, it's like, you know, they're talking about, oh, maybe he'll play right tackle. You know, so I do think I kind of had to broaden my vision there

and say because I was really locked in left guard. But now kind of hearing the rumors swirling around coming out of the combine, like it sounds like maybe right tackle. And I think that's totally fine. And I think if you're looking at Wiley with his restructure, I think Wiley's a good football player. You want him on the team. You attack things the right way.

but if he could be your swing guy, that's excellent also. So I do think that's the benefit of having a young athletic guy who's played multiple positions in college and Brandon Coleman, who's got the 35-inch arms, who's got the 4-940, he's got that kind of over-9 RAS score, and got the big body weight as well to support it. So, like, he gives you flexibility along that offensive line, and I like the idea of him playing right tackle.

I like the idea of that frame with that length, opposite Laramie Tunsell, and then it gives you some flexibility on the interior, especially with Sam Cosme, kind of negotiating that injury. Right. All right. So offensively, at receiver, we haven't talked since the Debo trade. Like, just tell me how you envision them using him. Yeah, I mean, I think this is the great thing about this signing. It's like it's a low effort implementation. And what I mean by that is like there's a lot of guys you say, we've got to kind of change who we are and what we do to fit this

player's skill set. That's fine, especially if you're an elite football player. But with Debo, I think actually this offense that Cliff ran here with Jane Daniels probably emphasizes or maximizes what he does at an even greater level than what they did in San Francisco. And what I mean by that is like think about all the quick game they ran, all the RPO's they ran, all the stuff that they ran within five yards of the line of scrimmage. Like one of things that Debo struggles with or is not his strength, let's say, is like catching footballs down the field because his route tree is not overly nuanced. Like he still has enough vertical juice to be too deep.

You can run the deep dig, but he's not running like the same route tree that like Terry McCory at Coren is, for example. Now run a five-yard sit, run a slant. And I'll tell you, man, watching his cut-up of explosive plays, there's so many plays of him catching a slant, catching a five-yard in, catching a choice route, catching a bubble screen, catching a screen, catching a screen, like a slammer screen, a perimeter screen, and breaking it for 50 yards, breaking four tackling and going for a second. And when I get breaking four tackles, I'm not being hyperbolic.

No, you're not. You're not. I don't know that I've ever seen a team that had more guys, you know, leading the pack over the last few years was Debo. But even a guy like Kittle, just guys that were impossible to get to the ground with one or two players. If you're not gang tackling that team the last couple of years, you're losing a lot of yards. 100%. I think that's a stylistic choice in terms of how they have. evaluate talent there. But bringing that here, I think is great because now think about those bubble

screens and think about Debo, you know, making one guy miss, breaking a tackle and taking a four-yard bubble screen for 15 yards. And so all of a sudden, this offense that needed to go on 16, 17, 18 play drives, go for a bunch of four downs. That's no longer, hopefully, an issue. And obviously he's got to come in healthy. He's got to come in in shape. But I do think like it's just like the floor of the offense with him in it just raises by like 25%, which is exactly what you're looking for with a guy who's this skill set. So I think it can be a great fit, and obviously he's got to come in healthy, and it's got to be integrated into the culture and all that kind of thing.

But he's a competitive dude. I love watching this film, love the way he plays, love the mindset that he brings to the team, and I think it's going to be hopefully a great fit. Do you see him? I talked a lot about this. I think he's got great vision as a runner. not to mention the power and the breaking of tackles. But I think he just looks like a natural in the zone read game with Jaden.

What do you think? I mean, that's a scary proposition because he is, I mean, he is watching him play receiver. He looks like a running back. Like he's kind of built that way. That's not a knock on him. That's just like his frame. Then you put him in the backfield. And most receivers, when you give him that touch in the backfield,

they're just not built to break tackles and feel it out, and he just does it at a really high level. And so I totally agree. Like putting them in the – talk about raising the floor of your offense. And I'm not sure how much running back he'll play here. We'll see, obviously, when he gets in the training camp and how they're utilizing him.

But the offense last year lacked explosive – June's last – lacked explosive playmaking. But to your point now, you can put Devo Samuel in the backfill with Jane Daniels, and that becomes a very, very scary proposition because you're reading an RPO, you've got Terry on a slant, you can give it to him, Jaden can keep it, and all of a sudden this offense becomes scary. He's got three guys in the read

who can now score a touchdown on this play. And that's something that I'm sure is going to give defense headaches. And so I'm not sure they're going to use him exactly that way, but I do think, yes, he has a natural feel as a runner, and he has the ability to create explosive plays. I may have asked you this the last time you were on, but do you think that there's a chance that Brian Robinson Jr.'s in a bit of trouble

with the addition of Debo, the tendering of Rodriguez, this being a deep running back draft. I mean, is there a chance that he could potentially become expendable by the time we get to post-draft? Yeah, I mean, it hurts me to say this because I really like B. Rob. I like the lead plays. I like the violence that he brings. But, you know, I do.

I think when you look at last year, I think there was a lot of good things that he did. But I think there was also kind of that lacking that top. explosive element from the offense. And again, I think there's an offseason for a reason. He can get better. He can become refine his kind of professionalism, do all those different

things, kind of pack those up. And maybe he's fine, but I do think if I had to put money out it, I think they're going to bring in a running back here, you know, to compete with this group. And, you know, hopefully, competition raises the ship and improves everybody, but like you said, this is a very deep running back class. You know, I haven't

started my watching film yet, but obviously you're reading stuff to Daniel Jeremiah, I put that he's got 20 running backs with starting kind of caliber grades on them or role player type grades. Like that's a lot of good football players that are, and I've watched five of them, and they're all explosive dynamic, and you're like, holy cow, like, these are really good football players. Which of the five? Tell me about the five you've watched and who you really like.

I mean, taking Gentie and maybe, well, Gentie's probably gone by the time we get to 20. I probably would say Jentzy and Hampton are both gone, but, you know, I just started watching the two Ohio State running backs, and, you know, I had a conversation with someone recently about, oh, do you think one of those guys was going on the first round? I was like, oh, and I didn't start watching me, and I was like, no, I don't think so. But then you start watching, like, the explosive play cut up, and you're like, these guys are fast, they're physical, they're violent,

they're competitive football players, and I could definitely see one of those guys being there at 29. Like, I was, like, either one, you know, like, they're just violent, human beings and they're fast and talk about kind of adding an accent to an offense and you mentioned it with Debo playing running back but think about you know what Sequin did for the Eagles or what you know Jimir gives does for Detroit like that kind of when I got that feeling

when I was watching both of them play and obviously I got to watch more watch more of their past protection stuff but to see that juice in an offense from the running back position the explosive plays are able to create I was like man like talk about raising the floor of your offense there And I think both those guys will be available 29. If you have a chance and you haven't already, watch Damien Martinez. Miami last year.

Miami. Oregon State before, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think he's a fun watch. Yeah, I think he's a day three pick maybe, but maybe a night two pick. All right. So let's wrap it up with this. What do they still need?

Yeah, so I think what they've done a really good job of, and this is the right way to handle it. they don't really need, absolutely need anything. And I think that's exactly what you want to be doing heading into the draft, right? Is now at 29, like you just talking about running back, I don't know if I'll go that direction. I don't know Adam Peters's philosophy on running back value in the first round. You know, in San Francisco they drafted, I think two years in a row, they drafted a running back in the third round. But, and I think that's good value for a back, but this year, if there's an exception, there's an exception.

But now I can go edge rusher, or I can go corner, I can go six, safety. I can go running back. If a tight-in, if one of those top two tight-in takes a little bit of the slide, I can maybe go tight-end there, and I can add explosive elements to my offense and defense. And I think that's ultimately what you're looking at now, as you've taken care of the floor, now through the draft, let's see if we can raise the ceiling. And I think that's why I'm really excited, because I do think you can now be super selective in the draft. You don't have the draft for need. I think that's extremely important. would you be in on trey hendricksson for the right price i mean obviously i you know you and me both man

we like good football players at the right price it just depends on what the price is like when i was talking to you know i was talking to someone from cincinnati maybe they were talking you know they were saying that the asking price right now in terms of draft capital is a little bit too rich for my blood personally i think it was like a first a third or first in the second yeah first this year so like that doesn't that doesn't feel right to me for the vet's especially because now the commanders have to give him a contract extension. And so I think that's, again, if that changes now that they've redone the receivers and they still need to move him and they say, oh, it's a fourth round pick plus a contract extension,

like, I'm all in on that, right? Because he's a heck of a football player. He adds a lot of juice, adds a lot of dynamism to your pass rush, and I think, like, that would be a great fit. Now, if they don't do that, I think there's a lot of great fits in terms of defensive line past rushers in the draft that would be great fit to yours, Washington commanders. So, you know, it doesn't have to happen. But yes, for Trey Hendrickson, his career, what he's done over the last, you know, three or four years has been really over the course of this whole career has been tremendous.

I think when we talked before, you and I would have both been in on Miles Garrett for a lot more than, you know, what Hendrickson is, you know, is what Cincinnati is asking for for Hendrickson. But it never came about. Kaleel Mack decided to stay, so some of those opportunities weren't there. Actually, I've got one more question, because I think sometimes we all forget about last year's draft. Obviously, we didn't forget about Jaden Daniels, didn't forget about, you know, San Ristill, and obviously Newton, you know, and Coleman played a lot. But if I were to ask you, which of the following last year draft picks has the best chance of making a significant impact, you know, being a big time contributor next year, of Senate, McCaffrey, and I'll say McGee, because I know how much they liked him before he got hurt. Who do you think they might be counting on to be a big-time producer next year?

Yeah. Of those three, I do think all three, it's to be perfectly clear, I think all three will make a big jump. But right now I think Jordan McGee is the guy that I would circle of that group that I think could be significantly improved. I just remember him from last year's training camp, kind of the buzz around. and how excited they were about him for the injury. And I think he's, I remember watching his college film. I really loved his evaluation.

He just seems like he's the right kind of fit for this defense. And again, I can't wait to watch him healthy. With an offseason, hopefully he can stay healthy throughout preseason. But he's a guy that I kind of circled with it. I want to see what he looks like in year two, when he's healthy, when he can move around. And obviously, that same thing applies to Tiggers on to, you know, getting a full healthy offseason in, but that you didn't ask him about him. but for me it's Jordan McGee.

Wait, who did you just say? I think I said, Jezahn Newton. Oh, John, you know, because I was also, because I think, and just tell me if you think I'm on to something or not, I think they really liked both Holmes in 90 last year, John Baptiste. What did you, I think they have some hope for both of those players. What do you think?

No, I think so, too. I think John Baptiste surprised me. me surprised me in terms of his physicality, his athleticism, and, you know, ultimately, like, you need, like, defensive end is the number one position driven by athleticism, and so, you know, he had, like,

a 9-8-9-R-A-S score, like, and I wasn't sure if that would show up, and it showed up in a big way, he's long, he's athletic, he plays with good power, and so I do think, obviously, the room's a little bit crowded, you know, like with all the new additions and stuff, but I think he's a piece that I would kind of be keeping an eye

as well for sure. At Logan underscore Paulson 82 on Instagram, Washington Commanders on YouTube, Washington commanders.com, for all that he does. Love having you on. Hope you're well. We'll do it again soon.

Thanks, man. Appreciate it. It's always a good time. Logan Paulson, everybody. That'll do it for the day. Back tomorrow. Gary Williams will be on the show with me.