The Kevin Sheehan Show - Trade Block For B-Rob + Doc Walker

Episode Date: August 18, 2025

Kevin opened with the latest on Brian Robinson Jr. and the potential for him to get traded or cut. The latest on Terry McLaurin in the open along with Kevin's key interests in tonight's game against Cincinnati. Doc Walker jumped on to talk Commanders' training camp and the things he's looking for in tonight's game. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheen Show. Here's Kevin. The show's presenting sponsor is always Window Nation 86690 Nation. Window Nation.com. If you need new windows, please mention my name.

I promise you they'll take really good care of you. Doc Walker is going to join me on this show, the first of two shows today. There will be this show, which I'll have out late afternoon. it'll serve sort of as a pregame show, but not really. Doc and I are going to talk about a number of things, including his overall observations of camp so far. Yeah, it'll be like a normal Doc Walker appearance on the pregame show that I did for 13 years. Less about the game specifically and more about a lot of the players. Remember, Doc does not like to talk about players who aren't available to play in the game.

So I'll have to work hard to get him to talk about Terry McLaren. But then I'll be back after the game to do a quick recap of tonight's game podcasts. It'll be out probably around midnight or a little bit later than that. I am recording this shortly after some breaking news this afternoon, which followed some breaking news over the weekend, which followed a hunch by my guy, Ben Standing. when Standig said last week, wouldn't surprise me if Brian Robinson, Jr. isn't on the opening day roster. I would guess a lot of people pushed back on Ben for that hunch. It's one of the reasons I like Ben.

I think Ben's instincts is a reporter and as an observer of this team are very good. Following Ben's hunch, we had the report over the weekend from Jordan Schultz, which Ben also reported after, with his own sources, that Washington had Brian Robinson, Jr. on the trade block. And then this moments ago from Mike Garifolo, Mike with the NFL network, quote, amid speculation about his future with the commanders, running back Brian Robinson Jr.,

will not play tonight against the Bengals, sources say. It's a mutual decision between Robinson and the team, as a trade before the cut to the 53-man roster remains a possibility. A mutual decision. First of all, I certainly speculated on radio today that, you know, Brian Robinson Jr. may not play. I think it'll also be interesting, just as a quick side note, we're going to come back to this in a moment,

to see if tonight Jacori Kroski Merritt plays, aka Bill Kroski Merritt, because if they're convinced he's the guy, even if he's fully healthy, which he hasn't been, why would you even play him at this point? But I'm not sure that Kroski Merit is the only reason they're looking to move on from Brian Robinson, Jr. Mutual decision, that could also be Brian Robinson, Jr., saying, look, if you're going to trade me, I'm not risking my neck

in a preseason game against Cincinnati. get me to my next place, whether it's by trade or by cut, and let me, you know, go about my way. Look, this is a very, this is an interesting situation. This isn't, you know, the difference between Super Bowl and no Super Bowl. Brian Robinson Jr. has been okay, really at best. He's been inconsistent. He has been non-explosive at times. He's been not always available.

You know, I had people reach out to me and say, good riddance, he stinks. He doesn't stink, okay? It's not like the guys rushing 2.7 yards per carry and, you know, 400 yards a year. What are we talking about here? No, he's been an effective back at times. The DVOA numbers are not kind to him. They're kinder to guys with fewer carries, you know, guys like Chris Rodriguez and Jeremy McNichols. You know, we saw in 2023 he had the ability to catch the football,

but I don't think they consider him to be super versatile from that standpoint. He's a physical between the tackles, you know, thumper at times. But he's not the difference for them. They were a different team with Austin Echler on the field more often last year than not versus having Brian Robinson Jr. on the field, although I was reminded by a friend of mine because I didn't say this, during the radio show this morning, that against the Ravens,

you know, the game in which he did not play, there was the feeling in that moment that with Brian Robinson Jr., they would have had a better chance to beat Baltimore. I don't think I felt that way, just if I remember my view on this. I thought Brian Robinson Jr. was going to have a big year last year because of Jaden Daniels and the threat of Jaden Daniels as a runner.

But I also, when the season ended, I was very much, I think out there probably with Ben, because he and I discussed this, thinking that Brian Robinson Jr. may not be on the team in 2025, and we would learn that based on how Washington approached the offseason. Washington didn't do anything in free agency. You know, no Najee Harris, no Rico Dowdell, you know, nobody like that. I didn't think they would do it that way. I did think that there was a good chance that they were going to take a running back on night two or early on day three. And that was kind of the cutoff for me. And I said that going into the draft. I said, they're going to take a running back in this draft.

And if it's early enough, that will be an indication that Brian Robinson Jr's days are numbered. But they didn't take a back early in the draft. Not even, you know, midway through the draft, not even early in the late stages of the draft. They took a running back near the end of the draft. taking Jacori Kroski Merritt at number 245 in the seventh round out of 257 picks. I did go back and do something earlier today because one of the reasons I thought that they would move on from Brian Robinson, Jr. before the draft is because this was such a big time running back draft. You know, two first rounders in Gentie and Omarian Hampton. And there were a lot of guys that were, you know, projected night two and early.

early day three guys that people thought had a legitimate chance to, you know, play a lot in the league. And I went back to see how many running backs were taken between 128, which is where Jalen Lane was taken in the fourth round, and Washington's next pick in the sixth round, which was 205, between 128 and 205 in the draft. You know, how many running backs were selected during that particular portion of the draft because I think Kane Madrano is the best player on their board, but I'm not so sure if there weren't a couple of other players available that they wouldn't have taken them, running backs. Here were the players between 128 and 205. Jordan James, Oregon, Jaden Blue, Texas, DJ Giddens, Kansas State, Ali Gordon, Oklahoma State. Ben thinks and thought before the

draft that there might be some interest in Ali Gordon. I thought that Devin Neal who was taken at 184 from Kansas, I thought he was the perfect fit. You know, Damien Martinez was always the guy that I loved after, you know, a few guys early. He had a big night, by the way, in the preseason the other night for Seattle. But I think Devin Neal, who was picked at 184, if he were there at 205, you know, that would have been 21 picks later. I think he may have been the pick. Mullings was picked at 188 by Tennessee out of Michigan. and then another guy, Taj Brooks, was taken at 193 from Texas Tech.

I think Neil or Brooks had either one of them slipped. And I would bet Ollie Gordon was in the conversation as well. Ben was pretty high on him as a potential fit for Washington. If any of those three backs fall, Washington takes a running back in the sixth round. Would we view it differently? Sixth round? I wouldn't. I would have still said sixth round, you know,

Brian Robinson Jr., still probably going to be on the team. Although if it had been one of the guys that I really liked, Neil or Brooks in particular, because I thought they were perfect fits for Kingsbury and Ford, Jaden. I would have probably thought something other than, no, Brian Robinson Jr. is going to stay now. But those were the backs taken. Then in the seventh round, before Jacori-Crosky Merritt was taken,

Damian Martinez, Breschard Smith from SMU, the guy from Rutgers, the guy from Syracuse, and the guy from Clemson were all taken five backs in the seventh round before Kroski Merritt. The only one that I would have thought maybe if he had been there at 245 that they would have taken would have been Martinez, who was taken at 223. But they did not take Martinez with their sixth round pick at 205. maybe they didn't like Martinez. Martinez got drafted a lot later than most people thought he would get drafted. So, yeah, I think a couple of things.

Number one, I just don't think they loved Brian Robinson, Jr. I think they thought he wasn't as versatile as they wanted, wasn't as explosive as he wanted, as they wanted, wasn't as durable as they wanted. Look, this team last year, you know, Brian Robinson Jr. had some games. I'm not suggesting that he didn't. But I really felt like the games in which Austin Echler played, that they were, you know, at least early in the regular season, they were at their best offensively. I mean, he had two concussions. So he ended up having, you know, a really good playoff game against Detroit, you know, as a runner and as a pass catcher and had a couple of

big plays too, remember, in the Tampa Bay win. But early in the year, you know, in the game against Cincinnati. You know, he had that long 24, 25, 26-yard touchdown run for, that gave him an early lead. He had that big game against Cleveland. You know, he was a good player. They were dynamic with him. He was really good in the Bears game. I'm looking that up right now against the Bears. Yeah, seven carries 52 yards for Echler in that game. Was that his best game rushing-wise? his best game rushing-wise for the season was 67 yards against Cleveland on six carries. You know, he averaged 4.8 yards per carry, and a lot of the lesser yards per carry games came late in this season when he was not completely healthy. But, you know, six for 47 in the playoff game against Detroit, a team that, let's face it, was decimated by injuries on defense.

So I guess one of the things to consider here is, you know, what is their plan? Why did they do this? What is their plan? I think number one is they didn't love Brian Robinson, Jr. And they were looking to replace him after last season started. By the way, you know, Brian Robinson Jr. is a different conversation than Terry McCorn. Terry is, you know, one of their culture guys. I'm not saying the culture guy.

You know, Wagner can be sort of that. Ertz can be a little bit of that. But Terry's certainly one of their culture guys. I don't know that Brian Robinson, Jr., necessarily, was that. So there could have been more than just the on-field performance with Brian Robinson, Jr. But I think what's interesting is that they're essentially saying, if they do move him, okay, and at this point, the fact that he's not playing mutual, mutual or not, you know, I think the team certainly is okay with not playing him, and it wouldn't surprise me if this was more the team saying,

yeah, we're not going to put you at risk. What are they going to get for him? You know, not much. A conditional sixth rounder, you know, a conditional seventh that could become a sixth. They're not going to get a lot for him. They're going to save roughly $3.4 million in cash outlay because it's all salary, base salary. There's really little to no dead cap help or hurt either way.

The $3.4 million that they're not going to use to pay him certainly could go towards Terry. This is not a team that's desperate for cap space, but after free agency this year, they're down to $17.2 million in available cap space. That's like 24th or 25th, I think, in the league per spot rack. I think that the plan is, and it goes hand in hand with the reason,

is that they really believe, look, I think many of you will think, well, it's Kroski-Marrant. They struck gold. They got it right. I don't know how you could know that at this point. He is not played in a game. Now, I think you do know that more quickly with running backs than you do with other positions. Running backs, you know, I'm not saying that they don't look at him and say, oh my God, we got this guy right. You know, we took him in the seventh round. We wanted to take somebody earlier, but the guy wasn't there when we had our pick in the sixth round. I think that, by the way, is a good possibility. I'll just leave it at that, that perhaps one of those backs that I mentioned, had they been there at 205, that would have been

the pick instead of Madrano. But it's possible. They know more than we do. It is possible that they're like, this guy's the guy. Because running back is one of those positions where you don't, you know, the tape and then, you know, with his peers, even when they're not hitting, is something that, you know, a lot of evaluators can kind of guess on a little bit more than, say, a quarterback who's got so much. more on his plate. A running back doesn't have nearly as much on the plate. At the same time,

you don't know much about at the NFL level what's going to happen when he gets hit. Is he going to be a good yards after contact guy? Is he really going to make these guys miss? I would say that it has less to do with Bill and more to do with a group that includes Bill. I think it's Debo's involvement in the running game, Chris Rodriguez and Jeremy McNichols and Jacori Kroski Merritt, and I'll throw out another possibility. The chance that one of these fifth or sixth round guys that got picked by a team with running backs could get released and they could pick that player up, I think that that is something that they can't count on, but they might have a sense of a guy out there that might get released that

they really liked that they didn't have a chance to take. But I think right now it's a by-committee thing. And I think they believe by committee is equal to or better than number eight, Brian Robinson Jr. And with Brian Robinson, Jr., he's not going to be on the team next year. His contract ends after this upcoming season. You can save $3.4 million without any kind of dead cap. you know, hit. And you might be able to get something back for him, even if it's a sixth rounder. Even if you get a sixth rounder and have to give up the player and a conditional seventh or whatever, you know, it may be minimal, but it might be something and something's better than nothing. I think that that's probably where they are with this situation, that it's more an answer of,

you know, we're okay here. We're okay at the position. We don't have the dynamic lead back, not yet. Maybe that guy becomes available towards the end of this preseason via waivers. But, you know, in our room right now, it's not a great running back room, but we know that we acquire Debo to carry, you know, two, three times a game, four times a game, maybe. we know that Chris Rodriguez and Jeremy, by the way, they love McNichols. They love them on teams, obviously.

But every single time he's gotten an opportunity, he's produced. Rodriguez, every time he's gotten an opportunity, see the Atlanta game. He's produced. And so along with the belief that they may have gotten it right, it's hard to tell for sure, with Kroski Merritt, they just feel like that group right now is equal to, if not slightly better than B-Rob, and they don't have to pay essentially any of those guys other than Debo, who wasn't acquired, obviously, to be a running back. Kroski Merritt tonight, if he's at all, you know, banged up or just a little bit too close to when he was banged up, why play him?

Like, if they play him tonight, I think that'll be an interesting tell. I think if they don't play him, it's a big tell. It's like, we got our guy. He's going to be fine. He's making the team. If they put him out there, what does that say? I wouldn't be surprised if we see the kid Felton. You know, he had, you know, a decent joint practice, right?

I think it was or no. The intra-squad scrimmages where Felton really excelled. You know, I don't know how much they like him at all, but he's, you know, produced a little bit. They also keep in mind, this is a guy that I had on this show, you know, the year they took him. He set the high school football record for touchdowns in his season. He played at UCLA. The Rivera coaching staff, they kept giving them opportunities. This coaching staff keeps bringing them back.

But a guy like Kaz Allen, I've always felt like his game-breaking ability as a returner would get, you know, a look here or there. But he's gotten very few looks. I think this coaching staff might like him too. look Rodriguez they could have turned away from you know people would say well there was something wrong with Rodriguez I said that something we're missing with Rodriguez because he's too good of a of a runner and you know they did bring him back they brought him back so maybe they feel like he is grown up or matured or whatever it is that could have been the concern this time last year so Brian Robinson Jr. gone I mean pretty much gone right and I think it's this by committee

but don't be surprised if between now and the giant opener, if something happens related to waivers. You know, I mean, I, the guy that I like Damien Martinez is on a team that's loaded with running backs, and he looked really good. I mean, they put him on display against the chiefs the other night and gave him, where is it, 11 carries 50 yards, 4.5 yard average, had a 19-yard run. had a touchdown run. But this is a team with Zach Charbonnet and Kenneth Walker the third.

You know, I mean, that's a possibility. You know, there are other possibilities as well. Let me just see real quickly because the guys. Taj Brooks is playing tonight. You know, they've got Chase Brown, but Taj Brooks was a sixth round pick. Wouldn't surprise me if they liked him. New Orleans drafted Devin Neal.

Let's see what he's done in the preseason. Let's see what he got carries. He didn't get any carries in their last preseason game. And against the Chargers in their first preseason game. Yeah, maybe he's injured. I don't know. Devin, Neil. Let me look this up.

Not in line. Yeah, he must be hurt. He must be a bit injured. Yeah, he's got a hand. hamstring injury. So there you go. Matt Paris reported that. Matt Parrish used to be with the Washington Times. All right. Enough about running back. Terry McClorn. So, you know, on Thursday's show, the podcast with Tommy and on the radio show, I said something that a lot of you responded to. And I'll tell you, you weren't the only ones to respond to it. I heard from some people in the know. Let me quickly just,

tell you what Adam Schaefter had this morning on the Terry's situation. Between, by the way, the last podcast and now, Terry did get activated off the Pupplist. Cliff Kingsbury, certainly in his comments, sounded like it's time for Terry to get back on the grass. Dan Quinn said essentially the same thing. So they activated him off the Pupplist, and now Terry's going to have to start practicing. Or perhaps they could start finding him again if he doesn't start to practice and take all the reps. They want to ramp him up. Dan Quinn did say they have a good plan with Terry to ramp them up to have him ready, probably won't play in the final preseason game, definitely won't play tonight,

to be ready for the giant opener, with or without a contract extension. Why? Because, as I've been pretty repetitive with this, he's under contract. But immediately, people said, don't confuse getting activated off the Pupplist as any progress in contract negotiations. Schefter said this morning that things are, quote, still status quo, which means they are not close to a deal, closed quote. He said the team activating him off the Pup list has not narrowed the scope of, you know, offer and ask.

He said, quote, Terry McCorn still wants something north of D.K. Metcalfe. which is $33 million a year. Charles Robinson last week, Yahoo Sports, said that Terry's first ask was $35 plus million, $35 plus million dollars. Charles Robinson's been a longtime NFL reporter. He also said that Washington, and then he came down to D.K. Metcalfe territory at $33 million a year. And Washington's middle ground is probably going to be 27 to 28 AAV with 50 to 60 to 60 guaranteed.

And he said that Adam Peters has an edge to him. He's a tough negotiator. And he also said something that I thought was interesting, but also something that I have felt. And that is no other team is going to pay Terry what he wants. No other team, he said, it's going to pay Terry McCorn what he's been asking for. So there's no chance for a trade.

But Schefter basically said that the standoff continues, It's where it's been. So I said something on Thursday's radio show that I did not say on the podcast because we recorded the podcast earlier that day. And I said that that's not true. I did say this to Tommy. I did say this to Tommy on the podcast. I said that there's another way that people should look at this. And it's not the way everybody's been looking at it.

But take a moment to consider that the team is looking at. at all of us saying, what are you guys talking about? We don't have to give him an offer. And we have made an offer. And we've made an offer because we like Terry. We want Terry back. But we don't have to do this. We've been generous in giving him an opportunity in his entering age 30 season to put $50 million in the bank, something that will not be available to him, next year or the year after or the year after that, more likely than not. And we are giving him that chance. Even if the AAV is much lower than he wants, we don't have to do this. But we are doing it because we like him. I think there's some truth in that. I think that there is some truth in,

I'm not saying that you have to agree with it, but I think that there is some truth in the team being a little bit bewildered with the response of just pay him already. Like, no, we're not going to do that. We don't have to do anything, and we are offering him something when we don't have to offer him something. We are the ones that are being gracious here and very generous here. We don't have to do this. It's not typical.

It's not atypical, but it's not the norm necessarily. that a receiver entering his age 30 season gets a third contract worth FU money. You know, that he's not to re-kill. He's not Devante Adams. No one is suggesting that. Hopefully, you fans aren't thinking that he's in that realm. He's a really good receiver. He's the best we have.

We've got a better chance to win the Super Bowl with him rather than without him. But we don't have to do this, but we're doing it because we do like him. him. And then viewing their ask as you guys are out of your mind to ask us for Jamar Chase or for Justin Jefferson money or even D.K. Metcalfe money. That's just not even the realm of in the realm of possibility, $33 million a year, $70 to $80 million guaranteed. We're not doing that. Terrible precedent, way overpayment, sets us up for a real problem with other contracts that we have to deal with in the coming, you know, 12 months or something. sooner, guys like Tunsell and Latimore and who knows, maybe Debo. Somebody sent me a text

yesterday and said, you do realize that Debo's 30 years old. Yeah, I do. I do. But he's not, you know, he's playing this final year of his contract or what they have him for. And that'll be a decision they can make then. They won't pay him elite wide receiver money or even really good receiver money. He's not a true receiver. He's a weapon. You know, it's kind of like the athlete description of quarterback when they come out of high school and go into college. It's just Debo's a weapon. He's an athlete. He would get compensated kind of in the, you know, mid of running back and wide receiver or flanker in wide receiver. This flanker even exists as a description anymore. I don't think so. But I think that this is going to, I still believe it'll end. I think

it'll end with Terry giving in and somebody you know either getting in the agents year who gets in Terry's ear or somebody getting into Terry's ear that says don't listen to your agent to say do you want $50 million or don't you want $50 million

because there is literally no way I as your advisor or agent could tell you that there's a good chance you'll get that this time next year or this time you know know, this coming February or March, because it's probably not going to happen. And they're offering it. And it's not what you wanted. It's not what you think you're worth. But it's the best you're

going to do. It's a pretty good bird in hand because the two in the bush don't exist. What do I want to see tonight? Really want to see the defense matched up against Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase and T. Higgins. I had somebody on from Cincinnati today on radio who said their offensive lines a problem right now. They are concerned about the combination of offensive line, continuity, health, everything else. So that means that if the defensive starters start, they should dominate up front. Let's hope that happens. But I'd really like to see Lattimore against Higgins and Chase. I had somebody texted me earlier today who said that this is something that Cincinnati wants to see too.

they want to see their, I mean, they played their starters against Philly. They're going to play their starters for probably a quarter at least tonight. Washington may go a series or two with starters. And by the way, not a lot of starters on offense. Not from last year. I mean, you're without Cosmi. You're without Coleman. We'll see if Tunsell's ready to go.

Looks like Beautish will go, yes. And, you know, you'll have Echler. Not going to have Robinson Jr. in the backfield. Ertz isn't going to go. Terry's not going to go. Noah Brown's not going to go. go. A lot of opportunities for some of the backups on offense to show something tonight. But defensively, to see Latimore against guys he's never faced in Jason Higgins, to see

Trey Amos, to see Sanra still, you know, tonight's much more interesting than last week. But it'll only be interesting for about 30 minutes. And there's no game planning, but we do get to see sort of mono-e-mono. So I'm looking forward to seeing that. Don't want my kicker to miss another kick to raise a level of concern on that after giving him, you know, pretty much an all-guaranteed deal. Yeah. So here we go. Preseason game number two, probably the last time we'll see Jaden before the opener. Doc Walker next after these words from a few of our sponsors. So guys, if If you're like me and you've basically been buying and wearing this same type of underwear for years, in my case, boxer briefs, same brand, same type for a long time.

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and you want to save on air conditioning and heating bills, just have Windonation come out. and give you an estimate. 86690 Nation, windownation.com. All right. Joining me right now, Richard, Doc Walker, 88. Rick, of course, has his own podcast, which you can get via Patreon.

By the way, you and I were talking about this before we first started to record. Solly's running for office again in Montgomery County. Yeah, September night. Well, in September night, there's going to be a big party to kick off the whole campaign. But you can go ahead. Yeah, you can go ahead and donate to the campaign, if you'd like already.

That's set up. But is Sally still doing your podcast, right, with you? Yep. Yeah. We're on today. Yeah, that's my guy. Look, he is the, he's a link to our past and our frat. Yeah.

And so it's like still hanging on that one. thread that represented the most fun I've ever had in my life working for a living. I know. You know, we all miss those days. But, but Sali, one of our favorites, no doubt. But also different, just a different cat, no doubt, in a good way, in a good way. He's a politician. Yeah, and he's a giver.

He's a giver. He's a frugal. When you say blue shirt, gray shirt, And so I see him, you know, every day. Every day, the same outfit. Every day. Same outfit. Well, it's morning and evening.

Yeah. So, you know, he wears gray and blue. There's only two. And it's light simplicity. Walking the dogs. And so now we take three days a week. And I just laugh. It is so funny.

And then I get to tip my check up on Zay, Scotty, you know, and the boys. Because they're still doing their own podcast. Yeah. So he's got Liz's podcast. as Dave's podcast, and then they do a lot. So it's just, and the whole lot of principle about this guy is that he basically left the gig over parking. Exactly.

Yes. Yeah, he did. Yeah, they wouldn't pick up his parking. I'm out. They wouldn't pick up his parking. Yeah. And I just think, man, he's talking about principal. Here's the guy.

I won't represent in my district because, but he's always a guy, and I just think of all the years he was going to prove you, he's always there. And it just represents what you have with your high school, classmates, your collegiate, teammates, and classmates. And it's the closest thing to a fraternity. And that's that 980 thing. and all the time that we all had in that. So that's a special part. Not people, everybody's grown and doing the thing, you know. Imagine Galdi as a parent.

That, for me, it gets up. Well, he's going to have to keep him out of the basement. That's for sure. Oh, my God. Man, I'll tell you what. So I just so many, I mean, and so for me, it's like a double hitter. Because you have the collegiate, you know, you have your playing stuff. Yeah.

And those are families, but those families change every year. Yeah. Every year is a different team, different teammates, people going on. But the run we had on that, that's kind of rare. Yeah. To have that happen that long. And then you think of all the Christians, and when you have DJ, it's just so many fun times.

By the way, think about him as a, he's about to become a parent for the first time. And I swear to God, when I wanted to be a girl so bad. God, I wanted to be a girl. I know. But it seemed like a boy, yeah, they blew my mind with that. She's great. As you know, I haven't been able to perform their wedding. How you think that was?

I know. I know. You were, it was incredible. You did a phenomenal job. And not let, not just. Doc was ordained to handle, you know, CJ and Caitlin's wedding, which he did, of course, in doc style and perfectly, you know, it was perfect. That's a one and done.

But you mentioned Galdi, and we all who know Galdi know that that basement isn't a basement, it's a dungeon, so the kids are going to have to steer clear that. And then C.J, oh, boy. No, and this is a thing that, and Scott Lynn, I mean, it's so childish. but every once in a while there'll be a thread and I already know what the context will be

and it's just brightens my day it brightens my day and it's just so cool you don't get that at every job you don't get in every environment not in every school not at every office but when you do don't take it for granted

because it's it's not guaranteed everywhere you're at But the good news is that there's a game tonight, a preseason game. I don't want to talk about that yet. I don't want to talk about that yet. Let me just do one thing real quick. Well, you never do sports with me.

It's always. I just know you're going to appreciate what I'm going to do. Steve Solomon running for Montgomery County Council at large. Donorbox.org slash Steve dash Solomon dash 4-county-county-council. All right. Just, you know, look up Steve Solomon for county council. You'll get the link if you want to donate. Sali truly is, he's always been super intelligent, super high IQ. And he's made this run before and just come up a little bit short. This is twice. Yeah, so maybe this is the moment for him. But yeah, it's fun to relive what was without question the most fun I have. had working at a place.

Me too. All right. So let's start before we get to tonight with something about you because you always like when I do this. I just want, and we're not going to do just you, I promise. I do want to know one thing about 1977 training camp with the Bengals. You know, you were drafted, as we know, in the fourth round. when did you know that you belonged?

Well, in practice, I mean, when you're out there in the beginning, because they had Tony Casanova. I was lucky because they had a guy that was really good at safety. You could go against. You know, Bob was there. I'm trying to think. Bob Trumpy. Bob Trump was a tight end, but our class, we had the biggest rookie class.

We had 23 rookies. Oh, my God. Really? 23 rookies? 23 rookers, Wolf, Whitley, Eddie Edwards. We had so many guys. So the level of fun, it was like 9-80 fun, but it was with this group, and it was,

I started to think about Moong, Broome, guys, Jerry. Pete Johnson was in your draft from Ohio State. Yeah, and Archie was there, so we'd already, you know, kicked the Buckeyes' ass in Rose Bowl. made. That was a bone of contention. I never let them forget that. And they embraced me. I got to go down for homecoming. I mean, Thanksgiving, I went to Griff's crib and had a ball. It was a really Paul Brown was a football genius. But they ran it like a five-a-dine operation. So just barely, bare minimums on everything. But they had a lot of talent. And Isaac Curtis, Kenny Anderson,

and all those guys, Tommy Cassanova, it was amazing to see it. See, first preseason game, I broke my arm in Green Bay. Right. Covering the kicks, jumping in the weds, and so I had to view it from the outside end.

You know, after you break your arm, you out. And then Paul didn't put me on IR. So he told me, you'll be back. The state goes through you. I travel. Who travels? with a broken arm. And you did.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah, he told me. And I didn't know any better. You should have been on our hour, really. Because the mental anguish are going through that and not participating, but yet being there,

it's not torture. You know, like, you don't want to be. It's like going to the Emmys and you're not up for an Emmy. Right. You know, but it was, but I had Isaac Curtis,

who's from my hometown, I don't have, you know, Billy Brooks, and then Lamar Parish. So I knew all those guys. If you have a star that you know well, you come in and it changes your rookie season. Because they mock you, but they know that's Ike's dude. You know, so you get to go with Ike and you get to be around a level you should never have seen. But, you know, you knew a guy who was a made man. So that made it cool.

But the torture of being injured. Right. And pro football is never discussed in volume, but it's amazing. That's why I'm so sympathetic. Every time I'm going out there when they have pads on, and I'll see a guy that can't participate. And I understand. I always talk to them, hey, you know, take this time to go into another space you

wouldn't have entered, which means more film study. If you're playing and going, you know, you see film, you're good. But if you're not playing, double the film study, take yourself deeper into some area that you wouldn't ordinarily have done because you need it for your psyche. You really need to do it because it's so supply and demand. If you're hurt, you're useless to them. So you have people walk by and you won't even speak to you. And you need that. You need to understand that this is strictly business.

This is not high school, not college. it's pro ball. And I learned that. And I tried to tell, you know, when I was over there working sidelines, I'd always communicate to those guys with that understanding that this game, you could break your arm, you could break your leg, what's your plan B? Right. Well, I always worked while I played, because I understood that you have to be functional

outside of the game. Otherwise, you can't compete in our society. You know, they only love your long, time while you're playing. And you hit the reject deal. You're going, you get thrown back into that lot. So prepare yourself. You know, yeah, I just, that's why I always worked off season.

I never start work. Why would you stop? It's an unrealistic deal. And I also look at money differently. Well, yeah, of course. Yeah, you just look at it differently, but you go, no, no, because I was with the worst paying team. Did it take you long to sign your contract?

Do you remember that? No, no, because they were the worst paying. It didn't matter. There was no negotiation with them. Plus, as a rookie, you know, you come in at that point, everything was based on you, the 40th, the first player in the forefront. But I never cared about that,

because to me, this was an entry to get into it. If you play well enough, you'll get what you deserve. If you don't, you'll be out. But I was never afraid to have a real job. See, a lot of people get into this stuff, and they think it's the end. I never looked at it at the end, means to the end. To me, it was just no step.

Because nobody played 30 years. People, you know, you play eight. The average is 3.5. So why would you think that you're going to do this for like 20 years? You know, you really had a very mature perspective. And by the way, we know how your life from professional football professionally played out. You have had one of the most productive, successful post-career, you know, runs of, you know, anybody that's ever played for the team. And so you were planning for that.

You were smart enough to think about it in that way. Did that come from your parents? Well, my father was a Marine. My mom was a nurse, but they didn't, you know, he played baseball in the Marines. but no, I just go off from being in UCLA. Okay. And when your campus is in Beverly Hills, you realize how broke you are. That's true.

It is in a beautiful neighborhood. Westwood, Beverly Hills, nice. Yeah, but you can't afford any of it. And you realize how that start then, I'm going, my God, how do people do it? They do about being employed and creating a value, but you had opportunities of a lifetime. Eddie Alexander is at KBC. plus there's movie stars and the film stars. So you're just always a peon.

And you realize that there's so much more than the game. Because out there ballplayers, there's no big thing. You can't compete with Denzel or rock and roll or the game show hosts. It's a whole different animal. So I think it makes you think on a bigger picture and go the games. But most of these guys, the game is oxygen. into them. Because they got nothing else to do.

They ain't got nothing else after that. And what are most people do? They end up broke. If you look at the statistics for the people to take their pensions, you wait till 65, you would be blown away. If you knew how many people

simply depend upon this one skill set, they think it's going to carry them through their whole life. How good was Ken Anderson? He was very good. And he had a gun. He had a gun rifle, man. He was, but he had, you know, Isaac Curtis, Billy Brooks, Pat McElnelly, and that helped me. Pat McInelly is from Orange County.

And so we had a Princeton and a Harvard guy. And I really, I learned so much from these guys. Of course, it's a completely different cultures. knew, Pat, we worked out during the off-season at home in Orange County. And so you notice things like I picked up on the fact that the Ivy League kid, almost everybody that was there from the educational standpoint was reading on road trips. Who was the Princeton player? Pat McInelly was the... Pat McInelly was Harvard. He was Harvard. But we had Reggie Williams,

Reggie was Dartmouth Okay Let me just say this Probably We had like six Ibees League three guys Wow

And we had a free safety I would go So I said first of all I want to spend my day off With him And we went antique Choppy He was an antique

And I learned I said Because again You got to understand California LA is really it's a lot handled. And you go from Hollywood,

that area, that whole mindset to Cincinnati, Ohio, where last call is midnight, and they're burning trash cans and putting KKK on the side of a building. Right. So it's a cultural snap. Yeah. And then I'm with these, and I figured when you, to me,

you got to get in somebody else's zone and spend a day off. The worst thing you can do, and your kids are so adjusting. it by because they went to school and how easy they are. A lot of people aren't comfortable outside their environment or with people that don't look like them. So you know this being African American. You know it real early.

But that antique, those days off. Antiquing. Antique to me was just old furniture. And I'm thinking, first of all, I can't fit on most of it because my size does, no, they don't want to see me in the antique shop. But I, man, those Saturday, I was like, my God, I learned so much.

And Pat, reading, that's why, you know, reading and taking that time on that plane to go through what you're going to do, study, or to enhance your knowledge. That became automatic. I didn't come up with it, but I saw it. And, you know,

we had great relationships. I spent a lot of time with these guys. The worst thing you can do is hang around and say people every day. You know, you know, you told your kids that. I told my kids that the whole nine yards is to expand your horizons because there's a whole bunch of stuff going on. And nobody's really determined that they got all the answers. I haven't seen that yet.

Now, I'm 70. Reggie Williams, Dartmouth, Pat McAnnelly, Harvard, and then Dick Geron. Yeah, Dick Geron, Yale. Yeah, Dick Geron. Dick Geron, yeah. Man, Dictor, those dudes was so, man, I'll tell you what, because it's such a different, I mean, you grew up in the culture, so you wouldn't be different to you, but for me, it was, I loved it. I loved it because I just learned so much. I mean, everything was a growth. Everything was like, and don't forget, if you broke an arm, you, you don't have a lot, you're not, I was out there wrapped up running, but I wasn't, you know, like.

taking the full load, so you had to find ways to occupy your mind and then four screnging it. See, I had three different coaches, three years. So, and then here, five, so I had five different coaches in my first five years. That's when I realized that the NFL is imperfect. That's what I always knew.

I assumed, like we assumed, that your boss is worthy of being your boss, almost every occupation. Yeah. You know what I mean? We just... Not always the case. Yeah.

Thank you. Bingo. Bingo. Then I learned that the hard way early on, but it's good to learn it early in your life because you realize that you get lucky, get a Joe Gibbs, a dig for meal, a Terry Donnie, which I had, and some high school has four Hall of Famers. Then you get best luck. But the downside to it is the years you were stuck with knuckleheads.

But they're everywhere. And so even in covering it from what we've all graduated or migrated to, we realized that we watched the Nationals win in 219. And now it's a dumpster fire. We were both in the womb when the Witters were really, really good. And we've seen TV, and that's why I'm so excited about the Mystics. Because I'm looking at development, two of you three, rookies are all-stars.

One is injured, and I'm watching the trick. That, to me, is fascinating because I believe they really know what they're doing. They're going about it in a way. And we saw the capitals. We saw that. With McPhee, we saw how it was built, the whole nine yards, have a superstar,

and to win with a superstar. And now we realize now that they didn't have a chance to playouts. Right. So we're in transition now. And you got to, but it was great, breaking the record, doing all that. But, you know, that's what we are. All right, let's get to...

Can I ask the question before we go? Yeah. Who bailed out on you today? How did you... How did I get lucky today? Nobody bailed out on me today. Okay. You were the first choices you always are.

Yeah, I know. First choice in four months. Yeah, that's good. That's not true. Some guys never get on your show. Well... You know what I realized? Some guys never get on the Kevin Shee and Pod.

I don't... I don't know what guys you're talking about. Oh, yeah, you do. I like people who are good. You're good. That's why you come on with me. You know, what's interesting is... Every four months.

I've observed over the years with your podcast and even your radio show that you, too, like having people on that you like having on, which always, you know, makes me wonder why you never ask me to be on. I've never... Because you golf? I've never been on your podcast. I've never been on your podcast. Never. We don't do. Yes.

My deal is being Sally. It's more where I am. Well, yeah. I'm just sharing with the audience. And that's what I do. I don't. And you play golf. You can't.

I don't play that much golf. No, let's call it. Let's call it straight. I don't play that much golf. And when I call, I don't want to bother you. First of all. You've got an award-winning podcast. You know, five days a week.

You're a member of congressional. No, I'm not. I'm not a member of congressional. Well, you remember one of the most prestigious golf courses in the world. All right. Let's get to the team. Let's get to the team. And we will do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

Great review the show. If you get a chance and you haven't done it already, especially on Apple and Spotify following the podcast. Just hit the plus button or the follow button. That helps us out a lot as well. We continue now with some football team talk with, of course, Richard Doc Walker at Rick Doc Walker on X on Twitter. Patreon.com slash Doc Walker for Docs podcast with Solly.

So where are you on the Terry McLaurin holdout and contract negotiation? standoff? It to me is a negotiation. I mention it when asked about it because I don't focus on guys not on the team. I got too many people to learn that are playing. I don't do that. I'm not surprised.

I followed the diners and they have a lot of really good players and almost every summer, somebody was pissed off about money. And I saw that there's always lingered into the season or the first week of the season. No, and I'm talking about Bosa's and Williams and I'm talking about the linebackers and say they got all all pro people.

And so this with Terry, I did not agree with the way his agent, he had his agent handled this summer. But that's his business, not mine. I'm focused on who's going to replace him against the giant. chance. She's not signed. But then I go, well, he's under contract, so he's going to lose a lot of money if he doesn't come to work eventually.

But that's not what I use the summer for. There's too many people I'm observing and trying to figure out what type of football team we're going to have by the players that are showing up and are working out. I mean, I think he'll end up playing, whether he gets a contract extension or not. my question would be he's off the Pupilus now.

If he starts practicing for real, is three weeks, which is basically we've got 22 days from Saturday when he was activated off the Pupilist. Is it enough time for him to get acclimated and get ready for the regular season opener against the Giants? Yeah, because I would believe he's been in that bubble doing a lot of work. That's just what I think. No one's told me anything. he's one of the best condition athletes on their team

and he's a leader. He is everything that they want to represent as what a commander is all about. That's why to me it is kind of like a residual negative effect.

I spent a lot of time just looking at all their past their highlights of last year. Seldom they've ever seen the lead. He is the leader on their football team. He is the voice inside the locker room. He is the go-to guy.

He represents him. He can be the logo. That's why I find this to be crazy that they didn't get this thing worked out before because it goes against everything they represent about being a commander. But business is business, and we'll see what happens. All right. Let's stay on offense. Let's assume that, you know, he will be a part of the offense, whether it's with a contract extension or not.

Give me a player that has stood out to you offensively of the new guys or of the guys that were rookies last year. Players that haven't made significant contributions yet, who has stood out to you while you've been observing? Well, again, none of them has stood out to me. because they haven't been playing tackle football. I can only evaluate small sample size. I don't do the gymnastics. I don't lose my mind because somebody plays catch. Their pros and the defense is scripted.

Everything they do is organized. So, and I'm not saying, I'm not trying to deprive anybody from their satisfaction. but I have a small sample side of viewing, so that's just the games that's live. I don't do shales and all. That's not the game. I mean, do tennis players, are they evaluated without a tennis ball or bowlers without bowling?

I'm blown away as how many self-proclaimed experts we have and looking at touch and tag and flag. Right. And I just don't, but I'm not, this is my favorite. favorite time of the summer to have Doc on to talk about what he doesn't, you know, take seriously, which, by the way, I think you're 100% right about. Even when they are in tackle football mode, it's not like they're game planning. It's not like anybody's playing for long enough to get an idea as to what they can be.

To exercise. And there's nothing wrong with it. It's exercise. But no, it's unexercise. It's very important. And exercise. And exercise. Yes. And exercise. Yes. It's conditioning. I look at it as conditioning. It's calisynics. Right. And you got to go through it. There's no way not to go through it. But I'll go and I watch tonight and I'll watch to see how special teams are. So you really don't want my evaluation of it. Because the only thing you can really get a good look at, it's real that you work on in practice. And when a guy takes the ball all the way back down and down your throat in the first place, you can't blame. that on not having your veterans. You can't? Because that's where you make the team. That's my point. It could happen to anybody.

Well, then why don't we get one? See, so I'm looking for things in teams, the kickers, punters, we got the best punter in the league. So I'm looking at the backup. To me, this is all about depth. I'm not going to round out my roster. What if I get a nick? What about if one guy can't play? And about my old line? because I've got to beat the biggest bullies in the league, the Eagles. And now the defensive front I have in the first game that matters, their front is better than our offensive front until you prove me otherwise.

So, you know, I'm just focused on the Giants. All this stuff is just window dressing, yeah, period. So, you know, I get the same thing from you every year. I don't have a problem with it because I tend to agree with you. the problem is No, you don't. No, I do. But the problem is when you have a regular podcast and regular radio show.

Oh, I know. No, I know. If you just came on and said none of this matters every day, what are you going to talk about? Well, what I talk about is the Brian Robinson Jr. on the trade block, Terry McLorn, etc. But I do want to ask you this because Smoot was on with me last week. And he said, look, you know, the pre-exampton. season is a lot of what, you know, you describe. You know, it's hard to tell. But as a player, he said, Sean was out with him. Sean Springs was out with him. And they were looking at players.

And he said, sometimes players can just look at somebody, even in calisthenics. And they know. And he said that about Trey Amos. He said, oh, he's the man. He said, you can look at him. and even in these seven-on-sevons and no hitting 11-on-11s, you can tell. So give me the guys that you have that you can tell. So you agree with them on Amos? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I like it. Again, I think our rookies are right tackle is nice, like his hands, like his feet.

Connerly, Jr. More bullets, yeah. Yeah. Kid from Oregon. Virginia Tech. No, Lane. Jailen Lane. Lane is nice, yeah, I can see.

But again, it's professional football. They went through four years of college, and I never see anybody looks out of place. Okay. But it's hard because, again, the only people, it's just hard to evaluate. If I don't have a three-hour radio show, I don't mention any of them until I see the game.

Because then I can say, well, the real game. And the quarterbacks are under pressure. They're being chased, and can we block people? Can we, and that's why tonight, you know, for about 30 minutes or whatever, it'll be worth it. Because I want to see Amos, I want to see these guys because the Bengals are going to play the starters for maybe a quarter or more. So that will be, without Terry there, I don't get to see him against a one. So obviously what made Darrell Green, Darrell Green, was he got to practice with Art Monk. So when you got ones versus ones, that's how you evaluate.

That's to me you want to go against the best guys on your team. Well, if that guy's holding out, no matter what people are saying about this guy, go he's really not being impressed by one to me. So that's why I'd love to have Terry in camp. So I can really find out how good our... Latimore, too, because Latimore, I love him. He was hurt last year. He took that bullet and went out there.

but now I'd love to see him sharp in his blade. For God's sakes, I don't want the Giants game to be the first time he's seeing a freak. But as it stands right now, what other choices are going to get? Yeah, of course. The reports over the weekend about Brian Robinson, Jr. being on the trade block, are you okay with them going into the giant game on September 7th without Brian Robinson, Jr.? Yeah, because he really, if you look at the composites of what the Niners and other teams like represent style and the type of back they have, there's a runner and a receiver and the whole nine yards.

Yeah, I can see. I mean, Bill seems to be more prototypical, niner-type, hacker-type back. And when I say that, not a real big dude. Don't have to be. It's not about size. but it is about being as good a receiver as you are a runner. And I think it would be a better fit for B-Rob for places that employ what he really represents, Thumper.

And I think there's a better fit to him in the league. I don't know if they're going to do it or not. I like him. He plays hard, gives you everything he's got. But is he really dual for it? I don't think so. Right. And so if you look at the Detroit's of the world, yeah, I think both parties can help themselves. Is there anybody, you mentioned Lane, you mentioned Amos, but usually at this point in the summer,

you got somebody that you keep saying, this guy's going to have a chance to make the team, and he's going to be a contributor. Do you have one of those this summer or not? I think we just mentioned some of those were babies that we mentioned. And I also, for me to tell you that a veteran, they brought over, no, I am looking forward to seeing our sophomore that were injured or nicked up a year ago. Right. The young kid out of Illinois can really play. Johnny Newton. He was a thumper.

But we didn't see the full version of that. I expect to see. I expect to see that. The young man out of temple that I was really hopeful for at Linebacker. I haven't, you know, I don't, how can I know without hitting them going? But I think that's the area of need, the position of need, that we need youth and enthusiasm into that. Other than that, I haven't, again, I've only had two padded practices, so. What's tonsill look like to you?

Like a pro bowl guy that I want to become a Hall of Fame guy. He's holding talent hostage. He's that good. but my question to him would be, have you ever thought about the gold jacket? Because he's got that kind of skill. He could be, but why wasn't he last year? So he's got to convince himself.

He's so talented that I think he needs somebody like, boy, bugle would have been great for him. And maybe they'll be great for him. But I think he's holding talent hostage. He's that good. And we need him to be that good and that dominant. because I'm not certain that the rest of the people up front are going to be able to get the job done until I see it done. Are you okay with starters just playing a series or two?

Yeah, because I have to be. And I understand why they're doing it. But starters, the quarterback, I can see hitting it. But if I can't protect you for 10 plays, how can I ever expect to beat the Giants? if I'm a nervous wreck about I'm protecting the pinata, then that's my fault. And again, I'm so Neanderthal.

If Andy Reid got the best, most valuable prospect from football, they never stop playing. They get it and go out. I just think it's like, give them to say, get some first downs, give me the end zone, and you come out.

That's all you got to do is to play. players. Oh, you mean all we got to do is score and we're out? That's all you need to say. But never tell them it's going to be, I wouldn't tell you nothing. Just why I would not tell you that you're not going to play. Because what I'm robbing from the player is how his body prepares for stress. The moment you tell me I'm not playing, I cut my engines off. So you're going to take me all the way to the Giants game for the first time. I'm going to be of that kind of emotional stress that you don't see as a fan. But I'm telling you, the way Gibbs did it was the way you do it.

You don't know how long you're going to go until it gets right. So now you come in locked and loaded, you've got your mouthpiece. You are ready. You prepare your body for the real deal as opposed to just a dress rehearsal, a griff and grin. I find that useless. But, you know, it's the league, man. Some people do it differently. but I tend to favor the people to win trophies like the Lombardi.

So the way the Eagles, Chiefs, the way they roll, that's the way I'd roll. Thank you for doing this. It's always great to have you on the show. I know how busy you are, so I appreciate you making the time for me today. I will talk to you soon. Actually, I'm not busy at all, but I just was waiting. I figured during vacation time that Cooley was bound to take a vacation, and I'd get a shot, and so I appreciate it.

Cooley hasn't been on the show in months. He doesn't even watch football. He didn't even know that it was preseason when I talked to him the other day. Do you really believe that? He said that he was somewhere where it was on TV and he figured it was pre. He's not paying attention. I know that. I know what he loves.

He loves whatever he's doing. That's the beauty about Christopher. Whatever he's doing, he's in love with it. Yep. That's true. Right now he's just putting up a lot of drywall. And he's loving that, building his own house. He's loving.

Yeah, I love it because that's the key to this, man, is that you just enjoy the fact that your lungs work, that you've got vision. Yeah, I mean, there's no reason to be on a downer. And here's a dude who's at the top of the class. And, but he's probably not done the thing that's going to satisfy him the most yet. That's how awesome to do this. Yep. Yeah, I wish him well.

Well, I mean, you coming on with me means a lot. It's always great when you're around and you're able to say, yes, I'm not doing something today. I'm not giving an inspirational speech to a tech company on NASDAQ. Neil, from Rockville. Yeah, he's my one. I got two people in my audience. I got Neil for Rodgville and Big Tony. I'll talk to you later. Thanks. Take care, my brother. Doc Walker, everybody. That's it for today. Again, I'll be back with a quick recap of tonight's game with a podcast out probably by midnight, a little bit after. You can get it early in the morning as well.