The Kevin Sheehan Show - Trade Up For Fields?

Episode Date: February 2, 2021

Kevin and Thom today considering a potential Washington trade up in the draft to select Ohio State QB Justin Fields. What about a re-draft of 2020....would WFT take Justin Herbert over Chase Young? A lot more on the show that's hard to describe but worthy of a listen for some of you.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here today. I'm here today. Tommy just lectured me before this podcast started about my social media presence on Facebook.

And I agree with him. I totally agree with you. I think you were expecting some pushback from me because you know I don't love social media to begin with. I am very much a Twitter user in terms of promoting the podcast, promoting the radio show, of occasionally putting some thoughts out during games or whatever and interacting with people. But you really believe that Facebook is much more important to me and this podcast. And I believe you. I understand that.

And so I will make a better effort, certainly on the show's Facebook page, which we have one, which you informed me that we haven't had an update to the show's Facebook page in how long? Oh, I don't know. A year. Okay. Well, that's supposed to be Aaron's goddamn job. And I let him have it on a text message here saying, we need a bigger presence on our show's Facebook page now.

Need it out every day on Facebook. He's too busy at the card tables out in Vegas. He's at the Cirque. He's doing a show with Tim Murray, hosting Murray. show from the circuit. They've got a good gig, you know. Tim's such a good guy. Aaron's such a great guy. Aaron's doing well out there.

And he helps with the podcast every day on some stuff. And we just have to get them on the Facebook thing. But you want me to be much more active, well, versus being totally inactive, which I have been, on Facebook personally. You think that's very important. I think it would help your brand. that's what we're talking about. That's the only reason to do it.

I don't care about brand. I know you don't care about. Well, what do you think this is? I understand. I like to do the radio show. I like to do the podcast. I like, you know, I like taking calls. I like interacting with people.

And I don't like sitting there on Facebook reading, you know, long-winded notes about how, well, to be fair, I'll get a lot of stuff about you on there. Okay, I know that. I know that. But listen. What? Listen. Okay.

People just don't like surf the net and say, wow, this sounds like a nice podcast. I'll listen to this. They seek you out. They seek you out because you have a brand. Yeah. That's what this is. I know you're right about all this. I know you're right about all this.

Okay. I do. I do. It's like having a story. and keeping one entrance blocked all the time. I know, but the entrance that is open, we've had pretty good flow coming through it for a while now. Yeah, but people have tried to go in the other way and say,

I can't get in. I'm getting back in my car. No, where they go and they go back to the other door and they say, well, do we want to walk through that door? Because it looks like other people are walking through that door. and on Tuesdays and Thursdays, they're turning around and walking back out. You know what's so funny is that you and I both know this, because over the years we've done so much together,

you know, a radio show for seven and a half years, and you've been a part of this podcast since I launched it two days a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And you get so much complaining about me, and I get so much complaining about you. And it's just funny because the majority, and I think it's the majority of people actually like us together. I would agree. I got one on a media website that was pretty wild and all time confined. Really?

About me? About me. Oh, okay. That actually brought my wife into it. What? Yes. You didn't tell me about this. What happened?

Well, I don't want to tell you about every single. So many. Your Zoom, once again, your Zoom down in Florida is sucky. All right? It is, you come in and out every once in a while, and I'm going to have to put you back on the phone line if I'm going to miss every fifth word. What are you doing down there?

Are you in a place that they have actual? I've got a vaccine and you don't. That's true. Don't be busting on me. Did you have any reactions to your vaccine? people were very impressed by it. No, I mean. That kind of reaction?

I'm telling you. Oh, you mean a reaction medically? No, I had none. What about Liz? No. Okay, good. And your booster is scheduled for February 25th? Yes.

You know what I remember that? Why? Well, one, it's the day after my birthday. Two, it's George Harrison's birthday. Wow. Yeah. You need to pay attention to Facebook because birthdays are a big deal. Do you know what else?

There will be lining up to wish you happy birthday. You just broke up again. I'm calling you back and we're going to continue this on the phone. Hang up. I'm hanging up on Zoom and I'm calling you back on the phone. And all of this is staying in the podcast. So all of the people out there realize what a pain in the ass it is to deal with you. All right.

We've got Tommy back on phone. You've had some issues there. And we also, I'm going to tell you this, and it's not your point. problem, it's my problem, and I screwed this up. But the other day when we had to go to phone with you, I did not have the phone thing potted up, and I had to go back after the show and boost you up. And that was a pain in the ass. Took me 30 minutes to do that from an editing standpoint. So I boosted you here today. Well, it's nice for a change that you had to boost me up because I've had to boost you up for years.

You've been carrying me for years. And now you might be boosted up too high. So I'm going to turn you down here for a second. Hold on. Okay. I've been boosting you up for years and I'm going to have to still do it. Okay. That's good. I'm not in another country, although it seems that way. I'm not editing. I'm not going to edit any of this, just so you know. Okay. I don't blame you because raw Tommy is good, Tommy. All right. So, I need more Facebook presence. That's advice. It's advice heated, understood, and I'm going to make the effort because I know you're right. I do know you're right. Now, the other thing that you asked me about before we actually started the show is what's going on up there?

And I'm assuming you're talking about the weather because it's probably lovely where you are. It's a little cool today. It's about 50 degrees. Is it really only 50? Yeah. Well, that's... Yeah, but it's a little bit... An hour earlier here.

It's both got up to 54 here. Like, some days are in the mid-50s. That's like... And some days are in the mid-60s. That's legit chilly mid-50s for Florida. Yeah, but it depends on... Put your sweater on? It depends on if there's a wind blowing.

If it's a mild wind and the sun is shining, it's a warm 54. If there's a wind blowing off the Gulf, it's a little bit cool. Okay. So... You know what? The temperature in my heated pool is the same, no matter what? It is still snowing here. It has been...

We picked up actually as much snow overnight in this morning as we probably got on Sunday and yesterday combined. I'm going to say right now in Bethesda, where I live, out of this whole thing, Tommy, which started like in the wee hours of Sunday morning, I think we've had 50 plus hours now of it snowing or freezing rain or, and some of it's been very super light snow. But I bet we've probably had a total of six inches now. Over like 50 hours. And it's supposed to continue to flurry and or snow the rest of the day. And then that'll be it. And then apparently next week, here comes the polar vortex. And we're going to have like highs during the day of the low, like in the low 20s

with plenty of chances of more snow in the next few weeks. When are you coming home? You're still, oh, I'm not coming. In fact, we might leave here and drive to Austin. Well, I love Austin. Why are you going to go to Austin? Well, I've never been to all. I've never been there.

I've only wanted to go. Tommy. Tommy, Austin's awesome. It is such a great town. Sixth Street. Just head right down to Sixth Street. The bars, the restaurants, the food, the scene. Of course, it is a pandemic.

So, although it is Texas. It's Texas. They don't pay attention to that stuff. Texas is like its own country. And you'll be vaccinated. Yeah. I love Austin. You know, for business years ago, I went to Austin a lot.

But the last time I was in Austin was when I called the Maryland, Texas game on Labor Day weekend. Johnny couldn't do it because Johnny had, I think Johnny had a family wedding. And so I went down and did the game, and Maryland won. They beat Texas. Remember they beat Texas two straight years? Then they beat him at FedEx Field the next year. But it was a phenomenal game that year. God, what year was that?

Was that 2016? I think that was 2016. Maybe it was 2017. But that was exciting to call that game. It was a great game. And we had a lot of fun. And spent the night, we got into Austin the night before. You know what?

And I've never traveled with teams before as a play-by-play guy, except for the games that I've done for Maryland over the years. I've never done a professional team. And when I've done other schools, whether it's GW or others, I didn't travel. They were all home games. But with Maryland over the years, whether it was basketball games that I filled in for Johnny Holiday

or football games that I filled in with Johnny Holiday, man, when you travel with a big-time program, and look, Maryland's not big-time. Football-wise, you know, it's not Ohio State or Alabama, But it is, you just get preferential treatment. Like you get a motorcade, you get police escorts everywhere, buses. I mean, it's first rate the way it works. And I remember that weekend and I remember that night.

And I'm trying to think there were a couple of guys. Who was on the Maryland beat then? I can't remember. But there were several people that went out the night before. And we all went out to a couple of the restaurants down. on 6th Street in Austin and had a great time. And I was calling the game the next day, so it's not like I had, you know, decided to truly get after it. But I had a couple, you know, a couple or three or four pops, some really good barbecue and went and listened to some live music. And it

was great. Austin's phenomenal. Austin's my favorite place in Texas. I'm not a big Dallas fan. So you're going to drive there? Yeah, we're going to try it's about 11-hour drive from here. All right. I think you'll enjoy it. I hope it's... I don't know if we're going to come back. We just may keep on driving. Why not? You can stop and do this damn podcast anywhere. You can write a column from anywhere. You can write a column ripping Dan Snyder from anywhere. You don't need to be here. That's right. The final score, the final score, I just pulled up the box score of the game that I did in Austin. It was 51 to 41, Maryland. It was a thriller.

It really was. I remember. It was a great game. Yeah. Cassim Hill, who was, you know, that year, I think, like a sophomore for Maryland, big recruit out of D.C., out of St. John's, I think, to be their quarterback, and he tore his ACL in that game. And little Terrell...

Little Terrell Pigram, yeah. That ended up being one of those... That's what every Maryland quarterback winds up doing. Exactly. And DJ Moore played in that game, you know, plays in Carolina. Ty Johnson played in that game. He's in the NFL. And for Texas, Chris Warren was in the backfield for Texas.

Colin Johnson, he's an NFL player. Devin Duverne, who plays for the Ravens, was in that game. A lot of good players in that game. Darnel Savage for Maryland. J.C. Jackson. God, J.C. Jackson, did he lead the league this year in Interceptions for the Patriots? He was pretty close. Maryland, I'll tell you what, for a program that hasn't produced a lot of wins over the years, Tommy, they produced a lot of NFL players.

Yes, they have. Yes, they have. It used to be a quarterback factory. It was a quarterback factory in the 80s with Bobby Ross and, you know, and then really, it's the recruiting area. You know, these coaches have gotten some really good talents, Stefan Diggs, you know, and Ralph recruited some of these guys. Anyway, whatever. So I wanted to start the show. Well, wait a minute. Yeah. Wait a minute.

Before we got interrupted by our technical difficulties, I was about to share to you one of the many criticisms I've received. Oh, right. Yes. Recently. Okay. And this one is from the website DCR TV. I never read that. Now, this is particularly graphic.

Somebody alerted me to it. So it's particularly graphic. I don't know if you'll have to bleep it out. It's a podcast, probably not. I know. To somebody posted, if Sheehan on his podcast had any guts, he would have blasted Laverro for his lack of journalistic integrity regarding his Kurt Schilling Hall of Fame.

So this is somebody has added to that. Somebody else has added their opinion to that. Okay, because that's not that bad. This person is named Obie. Ubi? They pronounce, I'm not sure. I mean, it's not their real name because they wouldn't have the guts to put their real name on it. So true. Not the first time Tom has said stupid things like that with Kevin, still kissing his fat ass. By the way, I hate shilling his beliefs and think he should not get in based on numbers alone. A few weeks ago, he said he disowned anyone who voted Republican at all, which is not true.

I said people who voted for Trump. Yes, you did say that. And I told you I thought that was wrong and limited. Right. Yeah, but still, I did not say voter Republican. It's funny, that phony has taken money from a newspaper that endorses Republicans all the time. It's true.

You could not be friends with anyone there. Yeah, I know, I do. Well, one thing, I write sports. For the other thing, I don't have any problems with Republican. I like the two-party system. I think it works when people like to govern, as opposed to people like to stuff. But anyway, then he says, thank God that fat fuck has had his dummy wife to cover living expenses the last 20 years. Tell me one thing he's touched in that time that made a dollar.

His one book was lazy, sucked, and not fit to start a fire with. I have no idea why Kevin is the only Tom guy left anywhere. Now this guy says, I wrote Kevin and said I like his podcast, but when I see Tom's name on the description, I will refuse to listen to it. Did he write me on Facebook? I don't know. Tom has always played this tough guy image. He is an obese asshole with fake joints. This guy knows everything about me.

Well, of course, he's listened to every single show we've ever done together. Yeah. He's usually the case. He has a heart about to explode. He also plays up his bro. Brooklyn passed, that is BS. He was out of there before 10 years old to the mountains of butt-fuck, Pennsylvania. Kevin's podcast is due.

Everything Tom touches fails. So this guy knows everything about me. When I left Brooklyn, where I moved to, you know. I mean, and still, you know, that I've written, I've written more than one book. But so those are some of the, that's some of the attraction. I'm bringing to your pie there. Well, let me just say, first of all, I can't stand the knock on the Poconos, okay? That is really off. What a beautiful spot. And Strasbourg is a hell of a little town in Pennsylvania. Other than that, I think he got it all right.

Oh, I just shot on my wife? I didn't think that. I thought that was gutless. Well, I mean, this is the stuff that over the years, and you pay attention to it, you interact with it, you respond to it. I just don't. I mean, look, we, first of all, just so everybody understands this, there's no way in fucking hell. What was the guy's name, Ubi? That as long as Tom wants to be a part of this podcast, Tom is going to be a part of this podcast. Do you know why? Because I enjoy it.

And if I enjoy it and we and Tom and I enjoy it together, what we have found and what we've learned over the years is the majority of people, if we are enjoying it with each other, they enjoy it. Now, we have going back to the radio show. We've gotten a lot of complaints. A lot of people have complained to you. Why are you working with that blowhard shee? Why are you working with that know-it-all sheen?

And I've gotten stuff about you over the years, a lot. But I don't know. Tom and I enjoy each other's company, even though it's only a couple of hours a day. But even if it's not a couple of hours a day, we enjoy the conversations. Tommy's politics, I think actually have, well, I'll tell you this. I don't know if I've told you this. I think you've become much further left of center than you used to be. Well, I would think that had something to do with the last four years.

Well, that may be true, but the comment, the only comment Tommy's made in terms of any kind of political conversation that I didn't like and I pushed back and I told him I didn't like it is I think Tommy's bigger than if you voted for Trump, I'll never, you know, you can't be my friend or I won't associate with you. because I know right now Tommy has friends that he doesn't even know that voted for Trump because I think a lot of people that voted for Trump will never admit that they voted for Trump and Tommy probably likes some of those people a lot and the fact that who they voted for in our democracy would somehow ruin the relationship with you that they have with you to me is incredibly limiting if they voted for David too yeah I that's Would that make a difference? Yes, it would.

Absolutely, that would. But David Duke wasn't running for president, and you had, look, I didn't vote for him. I wouldn't have voted for him. The Billy Bush tape was the reason that I never considered him. But you seem to miss out on this, and I'm not saying that you miss out on it, that a lot of people who voted for Trump hate him too, but they don't. don't like, there are two things. One, they're voting for what's in their best interest, which is what most people do when they vote. Or two, they dislike the left equally. Or they disliked the other

candidate equally. And they have the right to vote for whom they want to vote for. But like I've argued before, what we've gone through for the last four years is not politics. Voting for Trump On both sides. On both sides. Oh, much. One was a reaction to the other. Well, I don't know if that's necessarily true. We had a lot of stuff going on long before Trump got elected, which may have been one of the reasons he got elected. You know, a lot of this stuff. He got elected because he was a TV star.

No, you're wrong. Yes. He got elected because, A, whenever the status quo is perceived to be weak, then they're going to vote for the other party. Two, the candidate, Hillary, ran a terrible campaign. But really, overall, there was just a lot of we want something different. And for whatever reason, and, you know, maybe it was his TV background, he connected to a certain kind of person and a certain kind of voter that wanted major change. Years.

Oh, look. 14 years. Of course. If he came out of the blue, you're right. They had 28 million viewers one year on that show. This is why he got elected. No, that's not the only reason he got elected. Obviously, his prominence.

By the way, he was a very prominent figure in our country long before he became a TV star. Yeah, I know that. But becoming a TV, you know how people react. Yeah, I do. I do. I'm not saying that his visibility and the exposure that he had wasn't helpful. But if you think the only reason he got elected in 2016. I didn't say the only reason. It's not even the primary reason.

I don't think it's the point. Oh, it is. Oh, I don't. I don't. There was something where he connected to a group of people that were very much anti-status quo, and the Democrats had a horrible candidate, and she ran a horrible campaign. period. And by the way, Tommy, in 2016, looking back on it and even Bill Clinton, and I remember reading this in the journal about a year after the election, he basically, you know, pushed Hillary's campaign to go to Wisconsin, to go to Michigan, to go to some of those battleground states in the last two or three weeks, because he could feel it slipping away. And the other

thing that really hurt her was the presumption that she was going to win big. And because the presumption, which by the way, was media driven, liberal media driven, because that's the primary, you know, part of our media, it kept people from going to the polls that may have voted if they thought it was going to be a close election. There's a lot of, there's a lot of reasons, okay, we can agree on that, but being a TV star was not number. All those things, oh, absolutely, because no other candidate, any other Republican candidate would had all those things going for them and not had a chance.

Yeah, there's no doubt, but I don't think it's because he was a TV star. I think it's because for whatever reason, he connected as an outsider, you know, and he connected to certainly a lot of people that were hurting in 2016. Look, it's one of the more... Tommy, in our lifetime... Every week for 14 years, you're fired. Tommy, in our life, in your lifetime, and my lifetime, okay? which is a shorter lifetime than you've had.

The 2016 election, and then the 2020 election by extension, and by the way, the context of the 2020 election, you know, what the country was like and a pandemic and the whole thing. I mean, we go back to 68 for even an equivalent to that, right? But the 2016 election, by far and away, is the most shocking result of our lifetime. I mean, you weren't around, well, you may have been around for Dewey Truman, but for the most part, that was a shocker like none other. I mean, and somehow, if you think it's just because he was on TV, Ronald, I mean, look, Reagan had the benefit of 27% interest rates, gas lines, and hostages in Iran to come in, you know, in 1980 against a very weak president. A lot of people give Jimmy Carter a lot more credit after the fact. But in the moment, in the 1980 election year, it was a disaster in this country, a disaster. But people, actually, it's not equivalent because he was a governor of California.

And he had run in 76. So anyway. But he was a movie star. In 30 years. Had it been that long? No. Yeah, almost. Really?

He ran in 1980. He hadn't been in a movie since the mid-fif. I don't know his movie career. Since the mid-50s or mid-60s? Just check movies about monkeys. You'll find something about Reagan. By the way, can we switch real quickly? Because I watched a movie and actually watched it for a second time.

Because for whatever reason, I did not sleep last night. I went to bed at like 11, woke up at 1230 and never went back to sleep. But on Sunday, we watched the little things. The new Denzel movie. Have you heard about it? I've heard about it. It's Denzel Washington. It's Rami Malik.

It's Jared Lato. It is... It's on HBO... It's an HBO Max movie, but it's also in theaters. But because of the pandemic, you can get it on HBO Max and pay for it. We did. We watched it on Sunday afternoon. And I liked it.

I liked it. a lot, but because it was still sort of saved, so I went back last night while I was up, and I watched it again, or most of it again. I definitely recommend it. I'm not going to ruin it at all. All I'm going to tell you is I just, this will be the debate, I think, about this movie. Again, I'm not going to give any details, but I just thought that the ending could have been better. Some of you may disagree because people in my family disagreed with me. This would be a movie you should watch. It's a thriller. It's a thriller. It's, you know, about a serial killer and Denzel's this old L.A. detective, like the top detective,

who because of a mishap ends up in a small town in California, but ends up back in L.A. working with the guy that essentially replaced him. Rami Malik plays that role. It's good. It's really good. I like generally everything that Denzel does, almost everything that he does. let me make a recommendation to you. One movie recommendation. It's on Amazon Prime. It's called I'm Your Woman. Okay.

I thought I got a great soundtrack. Uh-huh. And it's like a very 70-style movie with a lot of action. What's it called again? I think you like it. I'm your woman. Who's in it? I don't remember.

People I don't know. People who are usually on with Jimmy Kimmel, who I have no idea. who they are. So I thought you were going to go to my second recommendation. My second recommendation is News of the World, which is on Netflix. It's Tom Hanks' movie that got released at the end of last year, just a couple months ago. Have you heard of this one? Yes, I have. It's about a cowboy whose job is to basically read headlines from town to town, right? Yes, I think, I actually think you're going to really like this movie. It's directed by Paul Greengrass, who did all of the born movies.

Not that this is like a born movie, but I love all the born movies. But Hanks plays basically a Civil War captain, but it's in the 1870s, so it's every bit of, you know, eight to 10, 12 years after the Civil War ends. And that's his job. And then he ends up basically, I'm not going to give away the whole. storyline, but inheriting this very young girl that he tries to return to some of her family members. And she is part German, but was also raised by an Indian tribe.

It's actually really well done. He's excellent as he is in almost everything. But it's very beautiful, too. In fact, I wanted to look up where they shot it, because I figured they shot it in Texas, like West Texas. it looked like West Texas. Here, I just pulled it up. What was the critical response?

Rotten Tomatoes had an 88% is that good? I don't know. Anyway, it doesn't say anything about where a production. Here it is. Santa Fe, New Mexico. Filming commenced in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Yeah, okay, so it was definitely out

in that area of the country. You'd like that, that it's on Netflix. News of the World. So I'm gonna, I got, I'm your woman, and you've got News of the World and then the little things with Denzel. So I gave you Hankson Denzel. Would you give me? I gave you a movie that you like with nobody who I remembers in it.

Okay, very good. I have some information that I want to share with everybody about the skins and the miss on Stafford, but where they are right now on the quarterback, and we will do that right after this word from one of our sponsors. So Tommy, you have not had a chance to weigh in on the events of the weekend where Matt Stafford got traded to the Rams. Washington was very much aggressive in that attempt to trade for Stafford. Albert Breer yesterday basically spelled out the whole detail of what happened, basically from Friday until Saturday night when the Yale got done with the Rams. Washington and Carolina, Breer wrote at one point during the day

on Saturday were considered to be the two favorites. About a third of the league was interested, and about five or six teams were seriously interested, and then really it came down to Carolina, Washington, and the Rams primarily. But there was a moment on Saturday afternoon where Breer wrote that Washington had offered a first and a third, so number 19 overall in one of their third rounders. Carolina had offered the eighth pick overall, which they have in the first round, and a later round pick.

And those were the two best offers that the Rams were considering, but Sean McVeigh apparently got involved, and basically the bottom line was they threw in another first and Gough, and Detroit did the deal. One of the things that's really interesting, and I forget if Kooley and I talked about this yesterday, but the new GM in Detroit, Brad Holmes, who was one of the new hires in this offseason, Brad Holmes is the new general manager in Detroit. Brad Holmes was in L.A. and was a big part of pushing to draft Jared Gough. So this notion that the lions were basically just taking goff off the Rams hands, which they were because the Rams couldn't afford golf.

Holmes really likes golf. So I did find that part of the story that Breer wrote about, and others have written about it here over the last 48 hours as well, that they like Holmes a lot. So anyway, they came in with that second first and goff, and it ended up. being a better deal, even though it wasn't an immediate better deal for the Lions because they didn't have a first rounder in this draft. I, by the way, also heard Washington may have tried to sweeten the deal with a player. I don't know who that player is. I can guess, and I think I guessed with Gully yesterday that maybe was Landon Collins. I promise you it was not one of the big guys. You know, it wasn't Chase Young or Montez Sweat or Duron Payne. Okay, they didn't offer that

and a first and third for Stafford. Anyway, Tommy, I'll, I want you. you to weigh in here in a moment, but I want to just give you something that I have learned since the podcast yesterday. They really like, first of all, I think we all have to assume that Washington's trying to upgrade a quarterback. Some of you really insisted with me, and it's not unreasonable. It's totally possible that really who they liked is they really liked Stafford. And Stafford was affordable and available, and they were willing to do something for

Stafford. But other than that, they're not willing to go big on Watson or they don't like anybody else, and they're fine now with Taylor Heineke and with Kyle Allen. I don't think that's true, but it's not impossible that it isn't true. It's not impossible that it is true. What I learned yesterday is they really like Justin Fields. And it doesn't surprise me when I heard this from somebody who I consider to be a pretty credible source. Justin Fields, is very much in line with what Ron Rivera has actually talked about in terms of what he likes. And that is he wants a more mobile quarterback. And he wants a very high character guy and a leader.

And Justin Fields, based on everything you read about his two years at Ohio State, he took over for Dwayne Haskins, is a top flight character guy. And so here's one mistake, Tommy. that I don't think Rivera, Martin, and Marty will make that Dan and Vinny and Bruce made all the time is I don't think they're going to make a person mistake, a character mistake. This is too important for them right now. He's talked about leadership at the quarterback position. He is not going to draft somebody with just a great arm who went to Bullis. You know, he's not going to draft somebody who could be a great marketing vehicle for new tickets and new corporate, you know, sweet sales. He wants this culture to continue to change, and Justin Fields fits that. He's also, you know, remember, they drafted Cam Newton, a guy who could make every throw and was super mobile. You know, now, Newton's bigger than Fields. Fields 632, 25, 2.30, Newton was like 6.6-250. I mean, he's a big man. But Fields isn't a small man.

But Matt Miller from NFL Draft Scout mocked yesterday, late yesterday, Washington trading up to number seven with Detroit and selecting Justin Fields. Matt Miller is a respected draft guy, you know, among the many. All right? And he essentially said Washington would give up a first in 2022 and a third rounder in 2021 to move up 12 spots from 19 to 7, which would be sort of in line with what Andy Reid did when he gave up a first and a third to move up 17 spots. So Washington would actually, you know, Reed moved up more 17 spots from 27 to 10 to draft Patrick Mahomes in 2017. Washington would have to move up

12 spots. But just, you know, so you have an idea, it would probably cost them, another first in addition to the one they're swapping, you know, 19 for 7, a first in 2022 and also a third. So something to keep in mind. As you think about what they're going to do to try to, you know, continue to upgrade at quarterback since they struck out on Stafford. I have heard they like fields. Do they like them enough to trade up to get them? First of all, that's the kind of trade that wouldn't be done until draft day when they knew fields was getable at seven or six or with whomever they would trade for. So this isn't going to happen in the next few weeks. That's a late April, early May thing. But I think that that's sort of what they're

looking for if they were to draft somebody. And, you know, in the free agent trade market, I'm still all in on whatever it would take to get Deshawn Watson, you know, not to the extreme, you know, but I don't think he'll be available. And I think he'll be available. And I think he's if he is available, it's the Jets and the dolphins that would probably have the best shot. So what was your reaction to Stafford, and where do you think they are right now on quarterback? Well, I think that for the Rams, I mean, they have a different agenda than Washington. I know everyone thinks Washington is close, and close is a relative thing, but a quarterback would certainly move the ball up the field more for them.

But Sean McVeigh, I mean, his trade is to win the Super Bowl. I mean, he traded for Matt Stafford to win the Super Bowl. And anything other than that has to be considered a failure for them if they don't win with Matt Stafford at quarterback. So there's a different agenda between what Washington wants and needs and what the Rams were going for. So I have no problem with not overpaying too much to get a Matt Stafford. It's not the same deal as Deshawn Watson, where overpay is a difficult concept.

You know, you're talking about Deshaun Watson. But I think if, and look, I haven't seen Justice Fields like you have. I don't know college football like you do. I'm going to bow to your expertise on how talented he is. But I do believe that you're right that they probably would have a better chance of picking the right character guy than personnel people have here in the past. But the bottom line on all this is if they don't wind up with anything and they go into the season with Kyle Allen, that's got to be a failure. Well, they don't have control over this. You know, a free agent has to pick them.

in the case of Deshawn Watson, he's got a no trade clause, which might prevent them from dealing him here if they even deal him. And draft-wise, I mean, nobody has to deal with them so they can get up to pick their guy. You know, they may, I think personally they are looking to really upgrade their quarterback position. I don't think this was just a Stafford thing. I think, you know... Oh, that's what they're trying to do, and they don't. They fail. Okay.

That's a failure. Yes, but what I'm saying is... is it's not a within their control situation right now. Like they're not, I guess they could offer, you know, Houston, the entire team and all of their draft choices for Deshawn Watson. But no, I understand what you're saying. And it may be, but look, I don't know if this is true, but this wouldn't surprise me if this is their thinking right now.

You know, Taylor Heineke, by the way, longtime caller Brad, who's one of my favorite callers, is called us over the years. It's just been a consistent, sharp caller to the radio station over the years. He said to me about Taylor Heineke this morning on the year. He just said, I don't get it with our fans. It's like they tell you all last week about Stafford. He gets hurt too much. He's too banged up.

And Taylor Heineke has started three games and been hurting all three of them. And it is true. You know, Taylor Heineke has started three NFL games and he's been hurt in each and every one of them. Anyway, I know that they really like Kyle Allen. Look, they traded for him last summer. I think that Scott Turner really likes Taylor Heineke. I think Ron Rivera does too, but I think they both, you know, they realize that they, if they're going to really go after it and try to become a franchise that competes for Super Bowls and playoffs year, and year out. They need a real franchise, you know, potential elite quarterback. And so they're trying to upgrade. But I think they also feel like, look, we struck out on Stafford, you know,

Watson isn't going to be available or it's going to be too pricey or he's going to nix the deal here anyway. We could get super aggressive. And that would be my preference, Tommy. I would prefer they go after a known, which is an elite quarterback. The Rams have essentially said, you know, the draft early, the first round is a coin flip kind of a deal with quarterbacks. It's like a 25% hit rate. We'd rather trade those picks and get a known and try to win this year and next year. And it's the old George Allen. The future is now. I mean, that's what the Rams have become. But I think that they, if they went into next year with Kyle Allen as their starter or with Kyle Allen and Taylor Heineckee battling it out and maybe

they'll, I don't know, maybe they'll sign Marcus Marriota or somebody else, Tyrod Taylor, and they have a real competition. And I think that they will then just focus on doing what they've been doing, which is changing the culture, build out the rest of the team, get a middle linebacker, get a corner, get another safety, get another receiver, perhaps a left tackle, really focus on the rest of the team and try to address it next year. Now, the problem is, is there's no guarantee you can ever address it. What's happening with Deshawn Watson, if he were to be made available, is unprecedented in the history of the game. No top five elite quarterback has ever been made available at 25 years old with five years left on his deal. Nobody. It just doesn't happen.

And I think it's one of the reasons it's not going to happen. I think the Darnold thing is interesting to me because Darnold would sort of fit what I think they'd be looking for in a quarterback. Yeah, but I don't see the huge upgrade between Sam Darnold and Kyle Allen. Oh, I do. I mean, I don't see that. Okay. I mean, look, if they can't get to Sean Watson or draft the guy they want, then I think you'd go into the sea.

I think while it's a failure, while you have to admit, we didn't do what we wanted to do, but we're going to do these other things and we'll be better than we were last year because of it. Now, the one caveat is they have a tougher schedule next year than they did this year. And Dak Prescott presumably will be a quarterback for the Dallas Cowboys next year. So it's not going to be as easy to be as competitive in the NFC and throughout the NFC. But I think if they do that, you know, if they go in with Kyle Allen and they build out the team in the other areas, I think they'll be better for it. Yeah.

I, you know, there was a time even recently where I was like, you know, you don't overspend, you build. And I just think the NFL's different now. And I think you've got to have one of these guys if you're going to really have a chance for a long run of being relevant. You know, being Green Bay relevant, being Seattle relevant, being what Kansas City is on the verge of becoming. what, you know, maybe Buffalo's on the verge of becoming. You know, what Baltimore, you know, has, you know, Baltimore is different, but what Indy was for a long period of time with Peyton. What, you know, obviously the Patriots were with Brady.

I just think you need one of these, what the saints have been with Breeze, even though they've had, they actually had a couple of tough years. But I just, I think Sean, well, I mean, they didn't get one of the elite guys. But I think if you have a chance to get one of the elite guys, but I think if you have a chance to get one of the elite guys. And by the way, it's a total crap shoot when you go any other route than trading for one who is already there. And that's what makes it so unique with Watson.

Then I think, you know, you're, you've got it, you know, you're pretty much in that boat of 25, 26 teams that, you know, are just hoping every year to have a good defense and a good running game and be well coached and, you know, maybe win a couple playoff games and maybe even get to the Super Bowl. You know, and if the Philadelphia thing with Foles and the, the Denver thing with Peyton at the end,

but you're not more likely that route going to have 10 years of being in the playoffs eight to nine times and having two to three chances to win it all. You have to have one of the five or six guys on that. And by the way, just to rehash and repeat, Tommy mentioned it. But next year, if you haven't heard me say this already, and I'm not a big fan of projecting schedules, but here's the difference.

next year, if all of these guys are healthy, they are going to face Russell Wilson. They are going to face Tom Brady. They are going to face Matt Ryan. They are going to face Aaron Rogers. They're going to face Patrick Mahomes. They are also going to face Josh Allen. And I haven't even mentioned that they are also going to face more likely than not Justin Herbert. and if DAC resigns with the Cowboys, DAC twice.

I don't know that I've ever seen a team's next year's schedule feature essentially six of the top seven quarterbacks in the NFL. Yeah, they will have a tougher task ahead of them next year. Okay, Kevin, here's what I'm going to do for you. I'm going to light up the phones right now. Oh, boy. We're going to get calls for the next five hours on this one. Okay, I'm listening.

How do you think Ron Rivera would have liked Kirk Cousins as a starting quarterback? Ooh. Well, are you bringing that up because Kirk Cousins was trending yesterday because of the story that Kyle Shanahan's going after him? Did you know that? No. No, I didn't know that. Oh, okay.

But stick to the question. Judge, I have a hostile witness here. Stick to the question. I think he would have liked Kirk Cousins. And I think that Scott Turner would have liked Kirk Cousins. Now, the big thing is I think they really have a preference for a more mobile quarterback. If they had inherited him, I think they would have liked him. But I don't know that they'd be in the market for going out and acquiring him,

because maybe he will be available. I just don't think, I think they want a mobile guy. They really do. Remember, he talked about Taylor Heineke's mobility. He talked about Kyle Allen's mobility. You're probably right. I think he would have loved him as, you know, a professional. Because all of the coaches love him as a work.

You know, what he does is he works at it and he's about the team. And he's smart. So I think all of that he would have loved. he would have not loved the inability to really play well off schedule, which has always been his weakness. Okay, I was just curious as to what your reaction would have been to that. Would they have been successful with Kirk here under the Ron Rivera regime? Yes.

Success meaning making it to an NFC title game. If Kirk Cousins had a chance to have played here with the defense, that they're building or even just this past year's defense, again, I think that they would have probably won 10 games. It's to say, you know, I like Stafford more than cousins, but essentially I think the results would have been pretty much the same. They would have won nine or 10 games. Would they have beaten Tampa?

Would they have beaten Green Bay? No. No, they need to get a lot better than they were. Look, defense costs them the playoff game more than anything else against Tampa. But, oh, yeah, no. I mean, look, what did Kirk not have? He didn't have a running game and he didn't have a defense. And they actually put back-to-back years in 2015 and 2016 of winning records,

which around here, if you haven't been paying attention, has been near impossible to do for the last 30 years. You know? So, and it was a terrible defense. Terrible. I mean, historically awful in 2016 as a third down defense. and they didn't have a running game, really, with him. And by the way, the kicker missed a bunch of kicks in 2016,

the same guy that they still have, Hopkins. And then Kirk played poorly at times too. But no, I thought you were bringing it up because yesterday, Cooley and I talked about it late in the show because the news broke. Evan Massey, who's some sort of, I don't know, some sort of football reporter, basically put out there that the 49ers are looking to make a move of quarterback.

Kirk Cousins, I'm told, is the name to keep an eye on. If the Vikings are open to dealing San Francisco, San Francisco will push hard to acquire him. Ties with Shanahan make this an intriguing potential fit. Ross Tucker agreed with it too. You know, I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this, but with Tommy. I talked to a little bit about it yesterday.

It is amazing to me. the reaction to Kirk Cousins. And I know what it is. It's the money. You know, it's the two franchise tags that Washington put on him. It's the first all-guaranteed contract in the history of the NFL and the pressure that that brought with it. But there's something else to it. I mean, he is so polarizing for somebody who's not an elite quarterback, and he's not,

but he's much better than most of you think. In fact, I mean, just looking at, this was a big, trend yesterday and the reaction's hysterical. Either you are pro-Kirk or you're anti-Kerk. And Tommy, if you're anti-Kirk, you're angry anti-Kerk. Like you are just ugly, almost like, what's the guy's name, Ubu? On the DC TV thing or whatever it was, people just get after him and they get after him with no facts. And I'm okay with the, you know what, when I watch him, I think he sucks, you know, argument. I'm okay with that because, look, Stafford, it's what I said.

When I watch him, I see a guy that I really like that I think's really good. And if you were in a different situation, the results would be even better. And so I'm okay with that. But it's funny how people get stuck on just the worst of inaccuracies. Like it's all about, you know, patting his stats and the whole thing. Do you know what happens when there's any sort of Kirk Cousins thing? On Twitter, you get the pro-Kirk people, and you get the anti-Kirk people. You know, pro-football focus, which I'll be honest with you, I'm not, you know, beholden to and I'm not a big fan of necessarily.

Kirk, since joining the Vikings in three seasons, is the seventh highest-rated quarterback overall by pro-football focus. All right? things like all he does is Pat his stats late in games. How about this one? This is a good one. Kirk Cousins, the most touchdown passes since 2018. In the second half of games, when the score was eight points or less, either way, Russell Wilson's thrown the most, Patrick Mahomes is thrown the second most,

Deshawn Watson's third, and Kirk Cousins is fourth. you know, all of those touchdowns and all those, that stat padding in the blowout games. That has been a major, you know, inaccuracy over the years. Cousins, this past season, the five best passers on targeted throws in terms of accuracy, number one in the league was Cousins, two was Aaron Rogers, three was Breeze. So, you know, the league knows that he can play with that. said, he's not anywhere near Deshawn Watson or Patrick Mahomes or Russell Wilson or any of the greats in the game. I understand that. I would never put him in that class, never have. I think

Stafford's better. I would rather have Stafford. Neil Greenberg, you know, the analytics guy, Tommy, for the post, he put this out there yesterday. Quarterbacks with more expected points added per start than Kirk Cousin since 2015 when he became a starter. Okay, so this essentially says, this is what your starting quarterback is adding in value to your team. The only quarterbacks that came in higher on this list, Breeze, Watson, Ryan, Brady, Rogers, Rafflesberger, Wilson, Rivers, Prescott, and Stafford. That's it. That's the list. By almost every single metric other than wins and playoff wins, Kirk Cousins has basically played at a level that's top ten-ish since he's been a starter.

By the way, he's also never gotten hurt. He's been and started every single game. You know, we have alienated everybody with this podcast. I know. I don't care. And I'll – We have turned everybody off. No, you know what's funny is you're right.

Like whenever these conversations turn to this, people will say, can you guys stop doing a Kirk Cousin show? And I'll say, well, we actually haven't talked about him for months. But I get the same thing from those people that understand the truth in terms of the numbers and the real, you know, the factual information when it comes to him, that, you know, there's just this weird thing that social media in particular has about him. And I'll concede he's not a good off-schedual quarterback. You know, you can fluster him with lots of pressure, he is one of the best quarterbacks against the Blitz and has been.

You know, in the red zone this year, he was 27 touchdown, zero interceptions in the red zone this year. People talk about what a terrible red zone quarterback, you know, money quarterback he is. You know, you can give me to Stefan Digg stuff and all the other stuff. Look, the bottom line is, I don't think Minnesota will trade him. He had a phenomenal season. The reason they weren't in the playoffs this year is their defense sucked, bad. It was horrible. He had a very good year.

Part of the reason, I think, a couple reasons why people react so vehemently about Kirk is outside the Beltway, outside the Washington football world, there's a media perception that he contributed to RG3's demise somehow. Really? Somehow he was, he was. the Great White Hope compared to RG3. Oh.

And people get angry about that. Okay. Well, there was some of that back then, but I don't think that's the reason anymore. Well, I think that carries over. I mean, that's... Why? RG3 turned out to be a disaster. I know that.

All those people that thought that were proven wrong. Yes, they were. Yes, they were. But that doesn't mean they'll act like they're wrong. The second thing is there's a perception that Kirk is a, an Eddie Haskell kind of guy. Yes, true. That he's a phony.

Oh, Eddie Haskell. I'm sorry, yeah. I thought you were basically saying, you know, a beaver, that he's just a goody-two-shoes. Oh, I don't know that he's got a Haskell reputation. Oh, I think he does. I don't think people believe the Goody Two-shoes thing all the time. Look, I'm not saying I do.

I mean, I like Kirk. I agree with everything you say about Kirk. I just think these are the reasons why people react so violently, so adamantly about him, with no good reason to. Yeah. I think, if anything, it's that he's too goody-to-shoes, that he's, you know, Mr. Religious and Mr. Goody Two-Shoes and, you know, seems to be. I don't think people buy all that. Some people don't buy that. Oh, okay.

All right. I think people buy it, and it's annoying to them. So personally, though, I don't think anything matters in terms of why he's become a polarizing player in the NFL as much as the money. He was the first player to totally fleece a team through the franchise tag. And it wasn't really his doing. It was the team's doing, as we know, because he would have signed a deal after the 2015 season if they had given him a reasonable deal, but they lowballed him.

And that set that path of franchise tag. And then when Sean McVeigh left, you know, it was over because he wasn't going to stick around and play for Jay Gruden. He wanted to play, you know, in a place that he was wanted. And then he signs the first all guaranteed contract in the history of the league. And I think that people just assume that only the best players should get those kinds of deals. Only the most elite of players should get those kinds of deals. And he's not elite. And I agree with that.

He also, by the way, signed a contract extension last year. He also had a phenomenal year in which he threw 35 touchdowns, 13 picks, and led the league in a bunch of, or was top five in the league in a bunch of key categories. Not as a dink and dunker, but as a throw the ball down the field. He's got weapons, you're right. Justin Jefferson's outstanding. Dalvin Cook, phenomenal. Adam Thielen, great. Irv Smith is developing into a really good tight end.

They also had a shitty offensive line and one of the true awful defenses in the NFL. And that's why they weren't in the playoffs this year. Had nothing to do with him. Zimmer said at the end of the year, and Zimmer wasn't necessarily the guy that brought Cousins to Minnesota. You know, Spielman did, the GM. But Zimmer said at the end of the year, Cousins had a phenomenal year, and he grew significantly. And we are really excited about him in the offense next year. We just got to get the defense fixed.

So I'd be surprised if they traded him, but I know Kyle and Mike would love to have him in San Francisco running Kyle's scheme, which, by the way, is the Kubiak scheme in Minnesota. Kubiak was Kirk's third offensive coordinator in three years, and Kubiak retired at the end of this year, but his son, Clint Kubiak, is going to be the O.C. But, you know, this was the first year they really had a system of zone run scheme, boost. leg play action, which fits his game best. For those that think Jimmy Garoppolo is better, Kyle Shanahan doesn't. I can promise you that I know that. So anyway, that's it on him. That is it on him.

I did have one more thing that I wanted to get to before the end of the show that I really think is interesting, and that is that ESPN.com went back and redid the 2020. draft. John Kime had to redraft for Washington, and you'll be, I think, surprised at who we picked. We will share that with you right after this word from one of our sponsors. So, Tommy, ESPN's done a couple of things the last two days. One is they sort of went through all of the teams in the NFL and discussed all of the teams in terms of how close they are to a Super Bowl. And this was, you know, I think a lot of the beat reporters and some NFL analysts and whatever were all all contributed. And I was curious as to

what people thought, you know, about where Washington was. They had six categories, current contenders on the cusp, one year out, two years out, three years out, and then four or five years out. And so, you know, current contenders are the four teams that just, you know, finished playing Green Bay, Buffalo, Tampa, and Kansas City. On the cusp were New Orleans, Baltimore, Seattle, and the Rams. after the trade for Stafford. Still a year away were the Colts, the Browns, the 49ers, the Titans, the Steelers, the Cardinals. That was basically teams that they feel are a year away. Teams that they feel are two years away, Miami, the Chargers, the Cowboys, and the Vikings.

And then you get down to basically the next to last category before you find the Washington football team. and they call this category on the upswing three years out from contending for a title. The Raiders, the Panthers, the Patriots, the Broncos, the Bears, the Falcons, the Jets, the Jags, the Giants, and Washington. So I know a lot of people out there think that they're so close, and I think they're closer than this, to be honest with you. I would have had them in the other category of being like two years away from maybe contending, everything goes right. But the bottom line is finding a quarterback. That's the X factor.

You know, until they find the quarterback, they're not going to make that leap, even with a really good defense, into one of those, you know, categories that are really close to contending for a title. But this is what I wanted to get to, because this just came out today. Redrafting the 2020 NFL draft.

Each of the beat reporters, Tommy, for ESPN.com, had a chance essentially to redraft based on, you know, the order from last April. So the Cincinnati guy, he picked Joe Burrow again at number one. Now Washington's on the clock, and John Kime has to make the pick. Do you think he picked Chase Young again? No. Who do you think he picked? Hold on a second.

I think he picked Justin Herbert. He did. He picked Johnson. He picked Justin Herbert, and he said, this is painful. By the way, 301-230-0-980. This is, Kime writes, this is painful because Young will be a star and is everything you want in a player. But Herbert plays the game's most important position and through 31 touchdown passes and only 10 picks. And the talent around him wasn't always great while the competition was.

Young will be great for a long. He was playing for a dysfunctional coach. You know what? Anthony Lynn's not a dysfunctional coach. Well, he was playing in a dysfunctional coaching situation. Yeah, he probably was. A coach was about to get fired. I think Lynn will be a good offensive coordinator. Young and then kind finishes up.

Young will be great for a long time, but Washington can't pass up a franchise quarterback. Look at that. Great minds think alike. That's who I would have picked, Justin Herbert. I mean, he was remarkable this year. And like you said, there were lots of reasons for him to fail, and he didn't. I'm looking through because Kime sent me a text last week. He was obviously writing this column. And he asked me the question.

And hold on, I'm going to find it here. Oh, here it is. He texted me a couple of weeks ago. He said, hey, odd one, but we're doing this now. If a redraft of 2020, do you take Young or Herbert? and I said, it's really close, but I think Herbert. And I think I still feel the same way today, but after, you know, like, to me, Herbert's not going to be Watson. Watson's a cut above Herbert.

I think he is. Herbert's got a chance, though, to be really good. He was so impressive. I don't know. I mean, he really was. and I tell you what, if they had Justin Herbert at quarterback, Tampa's not in the Super Bowl. If, ooh, yeah, but Green Bay would be. Well, I didn't say Washington would be.

I said Tampa wouldn't be. Right, right. Because they wouldn't have beat New Orleans and Green Bay. And I don't even know if they would have beaten. But they would be, yeah. But they would be farther, much farther along. in their quest to get to where they want to go. Rather than right now, right now, it's Justin Herbert versus you don't know.

I mean, this is a no-brainer for me. But I wonder if we would think the same way we think about a guy like Montez Sweat if Chase Young hadn't been on the team this year. Because I think Montes Sweat is a beast. I think he's a really good player. I wonder if we would have seen nearly as much from Montez this year without Chase. I wonder if we would have seen as much from Drexie. Iran without Chase. Chase Young was a massive impact.

You might have seen more from Ryan Carrigan in a healthy season. Yeah. There was nobody on the team that made everybody better like Chase Young did on defense this year. From the jump, even when he wasn't putting up numbers, he was... But you're back to the same argument. I mean, do you want to be the Buffalo Bills with a great defense and no quarterback? But what I'm saying here when it comes to Herbert is, first of all, by the way, just, you know, the whole Tampa thing, they would have beaten Tampa. Remember, the defense played shitty against Tampa, and Taylor Heineke actually played well. How many points did they score?

They only scored 23 and they punted six times, five or six times. So you're right about that. He wasn't. That's not happening with Herbert. He certainly wasn't Aaron Rogers in the game, which I think a lot of our fans, you know, would like to make Taylor Heineke's performance out to be. But the issue is whether, or not Herbert is elite. And I would absolutely not hesitate if I was absolutely convinced that Herbert was going to be in the class of, you know, let's just say that Rogers Mahomes are in the top class and then the one below it, which is still elite, is Josh Allen and Deshawn Watson and Russell Wilson. You know, I'm taking the old guys Breeze and Brady out of the conversation. Is Herbert into that conversation. He might be. And if he is, then I do it. God, I just was not, you know, I did not get him right. I was way off on him. I did not like him at Oregon at all.

But after watching him this year, you know, he really looks the part. He looks the part. You know, it's interesting about Herbert. To me, he's almost like a bigger version of Josh Allen. That's the way he plays and Josh Allen turned into an absolute beast this year of a player. You know, Herbert's every, Herbert's 6-6. What's Josh Allen? Josh Allen's probably somewhere around 6-4-65. So I guess they're comparable in size. Yeah, they really are very comparable to me, Alan and Herbert, in watching Herbert this year.

By the way, Alan did not look as good as Herbert did in his rookie year. Alan had a terrible rookie year. people were wondering if he was maybe possibly a Tim Tebow, another great leader on the field who couldn't throw the ball. Right. When he was a rookie. What did you write about this week? I read a column of yours.

Did I read that this morning or overnight when I could sleep? I said it last night or something like that. It's something that we talked about last week, but I expanded on a little bit, how, Ron Rivera, by getting rid of, actually, we didn't talk about this. Like, we get rid of Kyle, by Kyle Smith leaving, the other, you know, the two or three scouts who left with him were, you know, he was getting rid of the last pieces, some of the last pieces of the Bruce Allen disease out of the building. And he was bringing in his own guys in Martin Mayhew and Marty Herney. And I explained the dynamic of front offices and how it is important for Ron.

Ron Rivera to have the more guys in the building that owe their job to him. And that was the most important thing about the move he made. Not people, it doesn't matter whether Kyle Smith hated Bruce Allen or pledged his undying loyalty to Ron Rivera. He was hired by Bruce Allen. He doesn't owe Ron Rivera. Okay. So what Ron Rivera did was strengthen his place in that organization.

to the point where the next time the owner feels like flex in its muscles, there's not going to be anyone standing there next to him, except for his yacht captain. Yeah, I tend to agree with you. You know, Cooley's been very direct over the last week saying the bottom line is Ron Rivera's goal is to rid the organization of anybody that had ties to Bruce, period. which is the right thing to do, whether fair or not to these people, it's what you've got to do. You have to, I mean, I point out in almost every situation, save for Gibbs and Marty, and even Gibbs let Vinny hang around. It's always been Dan and his lackey against the coach.

Right. It's always been a two-on-one situation in that building pretty much. I mean, they brought Scott McLuhan in, but Bruce brought in a general manager who wasn't going to threaten them. so that doesn't even count. And now it's different. It's Ron and his guys and Dan standing alone. Yeah, but standing alone doesn't make him impotent. I know that.

I know he's still the owner, the guy with the money who signs the checks. But how much guts do you think he has to do battle without somebody standing in front of him? I don't know. I agree with what you're saying. It's the best path to take. You don't, look, Rivera's basically reporting to Snyder, and there's no in-between guy that is Snyder's guy. That is a first in this organization, except for Marty. But it didn't go well for Marty because Dan couldn't have any fun. Now, that's 20 years ago, so I understand that. Yeah, Dan is a much more damaged individual. now than he was then. Right. Yes. Although you are giving him credit for self-awareness.

He's damaged in our eyes and everyone else's eyes because we've known it. We know what he is. But in his own eyes, does he understand how damaged he is? Well, I've said to you before. 20 years ago, his partners were with him when he wanted Marty Schaunheimer out. Now his partners want to get out of the business. That's true. Fred Dress. Fred Drasner. Yeah. So I think he recognizes that he's damaged. I think that's part of the reason why you've seen a lot of these tires.

Yeah, I mean, like we've said many times, and we can sit here and beat this to death, but it's just getting old. We know what is potentially right around the corner as long as he owns the team. I'm just going to choose to, you know, just as a. assess the football operation as it's going. And when I find out, or, you know, we all find out collectively that Dan's button his head in there, that he's off the yacht making a pick, or he's off the yacht making a free agent, you know, decision, then we'll just deal with it like we always have in the past, which is it's never going to work. He's an asshole. He doesn't

know what he's doing and he's going to fuck everything up, which he has always done. For now, you know, I'm going to choose to see glass half full with a guy like Ron. Rivera. By the way, I think you are right about one thing. And I don't necessarily think that seven and nine in a backdoor playoff spot did it. I think Dan's preoccupation with his own personal situation is in play here over the last, you know, nine months or whatever it is. But he can't go four and twelve next year. You know, he's got to keep the forward momentum going. It has to be obvious to Dan. that getting involved would really, really derail something that has some pretty good forward momentum. And for somebody as limited as Dan is from a football standpoint, it's got to be pretty obvious. Like this is what you've said before. It's got to, it can't be like, it can't be seven and nine against a brutally tough schedule, which we all will say, man, they played really well this year.

They didn't make the playoffs. That schedule was brutal, but God, they had so many close games. that kind of stuff isn't obvious to Dan. You know, he doesn't get that. You've got it. You have to keep it obvious, not just to Dan, but to the fan base. I mean, because that's where, that's part of where you're strange with it. The fan base when it comes to football is much more literate and understanding of the football situation than he is.

I mean, he's a football. He's a football. You're right about that. Okay, okay, but Yeah, they're geniuses. Maybe Taylor Heineke will be the right guy. I'll tell you what, he would not be the favorite guy of Snyder because he can't market him.

Anyway, I don't know. Actually, you just reminded me of something. So that's what I wrote about. I wrote about these were good hires and these were good exits. Even if Kyle Smith is a genius, it was a good exit. It was a good column. I did read it. from R.P. Smith 2 on Twitter.

Kevin's favorite topic in capital letters. Dan Snyder. And I replied, Tommy, being active on social media on Twitter, and I said, top five. He's a top five favorite topic. This is the same group of people that will say, God, all you do is talk about cousins, and then I'll think, Jesus, we haven't talked about him in about three weeks.

But if they hear it once... Well, I was the one who brought cousins up today. No, no, no, he was on my agenda. He was going to be brought up because of the story yesterday. But anyway, R.P. Smith, too, I appreciate the response to my response. That was very nice. And I, you know, Dan Snyder is always going to be a big part of the conversation if we're talking about the football team and the risks associated with the football team. He's the number one risk.

Tommy, when you get a prospectus, you know, and if you're looking at, you know, a company and you typically go right to, like, who's running this damn thing? Let me read some resumes. How successful have they been in the past? Have they started companies in the past and been successful? Who's the CEO? Who do they have in the company? And you would literally, and then you have to also, you know, legally, you have to disclose

what the risks of the business are. Well, any sort of prospectus that would involve Dan Snyder is the CEO, he would have to be the number one risk. Absolutely. Anyway. That's a titan event. The snow continues here, but it's 54 and sunny in Florida. Enjoy the rest of the day. We'll get into some Super Bowl stuff. Look, I'm not going to do the Super Super Bowl trivia on the podcast. I'm going to do it on the radio show. I'm going to start that tomorrow. Tommy doesn't want to be a participant. I'm not spending anymore my money. Well, you never did anyway. Actually, you did. One year we paid somebody up. That's true. All right. Thanks. Thanks. a good day, and I will look into the whole getting re-engaged with Facebook, maybe.

Have a great day, everybody, back tomorrow.