The Kevin Sheehan Show - Trade Valuing Daniels vs Maye

Episode Date: July 23, 2026

Kevin opened with some "DMV Map" follow up from a conversation last week with Mitch Tischler. ESPN's Bill Barnwell jumped on to talk Commanders and NFL. He recently assessed trade value for players around the league which led to a comparison of Jayden Daniels and Drake Maye. Ben Standig joined Kevin as well on the eve of rookies reporting to training camp. Some Nats, LeBron James, and Anthony Davis on the show as well.   For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match   So if you are looking to make Mother’s Day perfect, or just want to impress your friends and family with an epic meal next time you host, go to www.GOLDBELLY.com and get free shipping and 20% off your first order with promo code sheehan.   Air conditioning stops at your waistband. Stay fresh all day with TUSHY. For a limited time, our listeners get 10% off their first bidet order when you use code Sheehan at checkout. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Two guests on the show with me today. ESPN's Bill Barnwell next segment, followed by Ben Standing. The show's presenting sponsor, Window Nation, 86690 Nation,

windownation.com, if you need new windows. This from Eric to open up the show. Eric writes, I liked Mitch from Monumental on your show. The what makes up the DMV map talk was so interesting. I really think the DMV is much larger than either of you made it out to be. Commuters into D.C. come from as far as Delaware, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. I'm not saying that those areas are part of the DMV,

but the areas in Maryland and Virginia near those commuters should be considered the DMV. So places like Frederick and Hagerstown in Maryland and Leesburg and Front Royal in Virginia count as the DMV for me. Of course, I live on Capitol Hill, so I might be wrong. Thank you for that, Eric. Eric's referring to Mitch Tishler coming on the show last week. Mitch is with monumental sports and with the JP Finley podcast. I love having Mitch on the show to talk, football. And Mitch had been in a Twitter back and forth that I noticed about, you know, what really makes up the DMV. You know, the DMV for those of you who don't know, stands for, you know, D.C., Maryland, and Virginia, or the district Maryland and Virginia. It's an acronym. It's also, you know,

a title or a label of some portion of the D.C. Metro, area. You know, I think we would all agree that the entire states of Maryland and Virginia are not part of the DMV. And, Eric, you're correct. You know, nowhere in Delaware, nowhere in Pennsylvania, and really nowhere in West Virginia, even though there are a lot of commuters from West Virginia in the West Virginia part of the state that, you know, borders Frederick County and Loudon County, a lot of commuters. By the way, plenty of listeners to this podcast, because I hear from them all the time, live in West Virginia and commute to D.C. But I don't think Delaware, Pennsylvania, or West Virginia residents can be considered, you know, DMVs.

Not for me anyway. But so we would all agree that it's some portion of the D.C. metropolitan. area. It doesn't include the entire states of Maryland and Virginia. Obviously, there are other big markets in Maryland and Virginia, Baltimore, in Maryland, Richmond, Fredericksburg, Norfolk, the whole tidewater area, Roanoke. I mean, there's a lot more in Virginia. The question is, which parts of Maryland and Virginia should be included as part of the DMV label? We know know that the entire district of Columbia is DMV. So the question is how much of Maryland and Virginia should be included.

I had so much follow-up on the conversation with Mitch last week. And for whatever reason, I have not followed up on that. Maybe I should do it with Tommy tomorrow as well. A lot of people actually said, wherever the metro goes should be considered the DMV. So you take the outer portions, as far as the metro goes, east, south, west, north, and then everything inside it is the DMV. If that's the definition, though, the DMV is essentially, you know, the entirety of the inside the beltway places. I think that's a given. Everything inside the beltway is the DMV.

and then just barely outside the Beltway because the red line, which is the line that travels kind of north-north-west, goes as far as Gatorsburg. That's it. Going south, you get to Springfield, going directly east, you get to New Carrollton, which is barely outside the Beltway, and going west, you get to Ashburn, you know, just into Loudon County. I personally think it stretches beyond that. I think that the counties, well, let me start with this.

The counties that touch D.C., the entirety of those counties, to me, that's the DMV. But I'm going to go beyond that in a moment here. But counties like Montgomery County, which, by the way, go beyond, that county goes beyond Gatorsburg to places like, you know, Damascus and Clarksburg. I think Damascus is part of the DMV. I think the entire Montgomery County, the entire Prince George's County, which includes Bowie and Laurel, I think that's DMV. I think all of Arlington County. I think all of Fairfax County, which actually technically does not border D.C., but it's close enough. I would include all of Fairfax County.

So I think every county that touches D.C. is the DMV, the entire. county. That's the way I would view it. I think Damascus is part of the DMV. I think Clarksburg where, you know, Quince Orchard High School is, I think Seneca, where Seneca Valley High School is, I consider that to be part of the DMV. The extension of some of those counties go beyond where the metro goes, like I just said, but I would still count them. I think the debate on the DMV label applying to said area, I think it begins with Frederick County in Maryland, Loudoun County, and Prince William County in Virginia. I guess maybe Charles County in Maryland as well, parts of Charles, parts of Anarundle County. I don't think those counties in their entirety are part of the DMV,

but I think you could make the case that some of those areas, maybe the areas that border those counties that I was talking about can be included in the DMV, or maybe not. I mean, I think some of them are probably worthy of DMV inclusion and some not. You know, I mentioned that, you know, I've had these conversations and I've had these debates before with people at the radio station. And some of it started with me telling Chris Cooley when he lived way out in Loudoun County closer. to the West Virginia border than much closer to West Virginia than the D.C. line, I'm like, you're not really part of D.C. You're not really a DMV guy. It's too far out. And he would take exception to that. He said, what do you mean? I mean, I got drafted. I came here. They told me to live near the

park. It's where the Washington Redskins, it's the DMV. And I'm like, yeah, but, you know, Most of the football players don't live anywhere near D.C. Anyway, fun conversation. I enjoyed it with Mitch last week, and I'm glad some of you enjoyed it as well. I wanted to talk here in the opening segment about the Nats' 8-0-0 win in Colorado yesterday to finish up their set with the Rockies. They took two or three from the Rockies, following up on the two of three from the A's over the weekend. so they've won the first two series coming out of the All-Star break.

Manager Blake Boutera said after yesterday's game, this was an extremely important win. It felt like an extremely important win. And then he went on to explain why, and I'll get to that in a moment. Cade Cavali, unbelievable yesterday again, six innings complete, four hits allowed, no earned runs, eight strikeouts, just two walks. The Nats have two really good starting pitchers right now in Cade Cavali and in Foster Griffin. By the way, C.J. Abrams is just on fire. He was four or five yesterday, was on base five times.

He did not hit a home run. He had four home runs in three games heading into yesterday's game. But another eight runs and 14 hits for the nationals who are certainly one of the top two, three offensive teams and baseball, they lead the big leagues in overall runs scored. So Blake Boutera said it felt extremely important to win that game yesterday. And I'm taking this from Spencer Nussbaum's story in the athletic. He covers the Nats in the athletic. Boutera said, quote, I just had that feeling. I mean, we're sitting here. Obviously, we know the standings. Everyone in the clubhouse knows the standings. We know the trade deadlines around the corner. It's on TV every day. People are talking about playoffs, trade deadline, buyers, sellers, all those different types of things. And I know this is the first

time in a while that a lot of these guys have played meaningful baseball here late in July, hopefully going into August. So we're having fun with this. Closed quote. You know, when I read this, I thought to myself, because I felt this way about the game yesterday, Tommy and I were in here recording when the game began, and I'm like, they really need this one. I think I said it to Tommy on the podcast. They really need to get this one and win a second straight series against a bad Colorado team. Because if they lose two of three to Colorado, it's going to be a bit of a damper on how everything has come together here. They're going to drop to a game below. 500 instead of a game above 500. They'll drop further out of the wild card race. They're a game and a half behind Arizona right now for the third wildcard spot. Now, there are other teams in between them in Arizona that Nats actually start a weekend set against Arizona at home tomorrow night. So this is another big series coming up for them. But I kind of felt like when I read that, Yeah, I understand why he felt like it was important.

You don't want to lose two or three when you're now starting to think about, hey, man, we could make the playoffs. We could be one of these wild card teams. And oh, by the way, if we got there, we're one of the scariest teams offensively in all of baseball. And in a short series, you know, a wild card round series, you know, as a six-seed against a three-seed, let's just say they play Atlanta. is right now the third of the three division leaders in the National League. The Dodgers and Brewers have very good records.

And it might not even be the Braves by the time we get there. It could be the Phillies. Who knows, it might be the nationals by the time we get there. I doubt it. I think they are vying very much for a wild card spot. But it was an admission that they're in this thing. It's also an admission that we're in this thing right now. Let's be careful about what.

we do at the trade deadline. Let's make not let's make sure we don't kill the spirit that we have right now by trading off a key piece of Garcia or a foster Griffin where then James Wood and C.J. Abrams and Dill, you know, and Lyle and Ruiz and everybody else kind of shrugged their shoulders and say, oh, that was fun until we got to the trade deadline and now we don't have the same team. So I, I think. think this is going to be a really interesting week, you know, going into the trade deadline, because the Nats have, not only do they have Arizona who's in front of them, then they face Toronto, but then literally going into the trade deadline, four games in Atlanta, four games in Philadelphia.

That is quite the stretch. And if they can get through this Arizona, Toronto, these next two series, maybe two or three from Arizona, two or three from Toronto, and they're sitting there three games above 500, and they're a game out, or maybe they're in it at that point. Man, the games in Atlanta and in Philadelphia will be huge deciders, but most of those games are going to come after the trade deadline. Look, I think they'd be dangerous as a really good offensive team and two solid starting pitchers in a short series.

Of course, it would matter at the end of the season if they could line it up so they not only qualify as a wild card, but they qualify in a way that lines it up for Griffin and Cavali to pitch games one and two. Anyway, the Nats off tonight, back at it. Tomorrow night at home against the Diamondbacks. who have won, I think it's something like, I looked at this earlier, it's like eight of their last 10,

and they've been really, really good offensively coming out of the All-Star break. Now, they're not in a division race because of where the Dodgers are. They're 11, 11 and a half, 12 games, something like that behind the Dodgers. But in the wild card race right now, the Cubs and the Phillies have the top two spots. and Arizona right now has that third wild card spot. A half game ahead of St. Louis and Pittsburgh and a game and a half in front of Washington and Miami. So it's bunched up. There are a lot of teams going for, you know, more likely than not one wild card spot

because I think the NL East runner up, either Philly or Atlanta, is going to have one of those. And likely the Cubs will, you know, have another one. they're 12 games above 500. But then between Arizona, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Miami, Washington, and even the Padres and the Reds to a certain degree, it will be a battle and a race for that final spot. But look, they have head to heads with Arizona coming up and some other key teams as well. This has been an unexpected season. And yes, I do like baseball. I think more so than most of you know.

It's just that we've had such a bad team for six, seven years. It's tough to talk about it as much without losing audience. It just isn't right now. It hasn't been a topic that you could spend a lot of time on without some risk. So get them into August and even into football season. vying for a wild card spot with big games late in the season. Let me look at what their late season at the end of the season, who they play. They finish with, well, potentially they'll have a big series with St. Louis in mid-September on the road.

They've got, they still have to go to, they still have to play the Dodgers on the road. I looked at their schedule strength. It's like 17th. You know, they still play Colorado four times. They have games against, you know, Toronto, as I mentioned, they're in last place. The Mets, they've got a bunch of games with the Mets. So it's not the most difficult schedule, but there are some difficult stretches. I already mentioned the Atlanta, Philadelphia stretch.

They also play the Cubs, you know, after a series with Cincinnati. Cincinnati's, you know, sort of in the mix. And then they've got, you know, Miami, Atlanta, the Dodgers, the Padres. You know, that's in late August into early September. And then they finish the season at Detroit and then the Mets at home. So two teams, six games at the end of the year, that right now those teams aren't very good. So we'll see. All right.

Let's get to Bill Barnwell from ESPN after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, in admission, I love Goldbelly. I've been telling you about Goldbelly for three years now. If you're a food guy and you haven't been to goldbelly.com, you are missing out. Goldbelly offers the most iconic famous foods from restaurants all across the country. They ship it directly to you wherever you live. You may have been in a city a few years ago and you loved a restaurant. You loved a particular item at a restaurant.

There's a good chance that Goldbelly offers that. item and you can get it delivered directly to you. We're big pizza fans in our household. John's on Bleaker Street, one of the best New York style pizza places in New York. We get it delivered to the home. It comes frozen. By the time we take it out of the oven and sit down and eat it, it's like we're in the village eating it at Johns on Bleaker Street. Do you like deep dish pizza? Lou Mulnoughties is one of the best, one of Chicago's best. deep dish offerings, that's available at Goldbelly. How about barbecue from Franklin's in Texas straight to your door? If you want to try the one and only world-renowned stone crab,

they'll deliver it direct to your home from Joe's in Miami. This can be for just you. This can be for entertaining. This can be for game day. This can be for a gift. If you're looking for that perfect gift, or you want to impress your friends and family with an epic meal the next time you host, go to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order using promo code Sheehan. That's goldbelly.com code sheen for 20% off your first order. All right. Joining me right now is ESPN's Bill Barnwell, one of my favorites to have on the show at Bill Barnwell on X. You know, only you, only you could create a 53-man-man roster made up of only backup players. That was brilliant, the thing that you had the other day.

But I actually want to start with this. You came up with compensation value for players, key players around the NFL. And I think, you know, I think one of the hardest conversations we have as sports fans and the thing that we get wrong the most is when we get into conversations about trade value, like, well, if you dealt, you know, for us in this past off season, if you traded Duran Payne, you could probably get a day three pick or a day two pick. And we're always wrong on that. I kind of feel that way. Do you feel that way, by the way, that that's always a hard thing?

Because it's really about supply demand, and you don't know how it'll play out if that player becomes available. It's always, what is someone willing to pay you for it, right? You know, it's art, basically. Yeah. we could sit here and say, okay, this is what history says this guy is worth. But I'll tell you what, last year I did this column, I did not have Quinn Williams as worth a first-round pick because history told me,

well, guys in the late 20th, you know, defensive tackles, not send their third contract, they don't get a first-round picks, and then Jerry Jones woke up and said, you know what, I'm sick of watching this defense. I'm going to give up what it takes at Quinn and Williams, and that impacted the rest of the market. Right. Bill Lawrence went for a first-term pick, when I don't know that he would have 12 months earlier. And so we're just sort of trying to capture, okay, what does the league tell us about players

and how they value guys? But at the end of the day, all it takes is one owner to change that to totally change what teams are acting for and what teams are actually getting for players when it comes to the trade market. So Bill's column from last week focused on players that are worth first round picks. And he went team by team and told you how many players on the team were actually worth first round picks. and then, by the way, how many first round picks?

And I'll mention, because I went through your whole thing, Josh Allen's worth seven first round picks. Now, no team's actually going to give that up for him, but it was a way right for you to express his value versus another quarterback's value in terms of picks. Yeah, and this is, by the way, this is not like if you called up the bills tomorrow with seven first round picks, they'd say, well, okay, we don't need a quarterback. Obviously, they're not going to do it for any number of first round picks, but this is more just kind of like the Miles Gare situation in Cleveland and the Michael Parsons situation in Dallas last year of, hey, the moment you decide, actually, we're ready to move on what they fare offer once you're ready to do that.

The bill is not trading Josh Allen for any number of first round picks. But if they did, I would say seven first round picks or, you know, players who combined to be worth seven first round picks, that's the kind of deal that would take something completely unprecedented because teams don't create it. Josh Allen. All right. So the reason for bringing this up with you is we can just go back to the 2024 draft, Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, Drake May. So share with everybody the order in which you think the player would generate the most value in return. So my recollection was I had it May, Caleb Daniels. Is that correct? Correct. You had Drake May worth six first round picks, Caleb Williams worth four first round picks, and Jaden worth three first round picks. So tell me why the order would be that, and really the difference

between Jaden and Drake May would be so significant. Yeah, so I think the reason Jaden is not at the same level has something to do with talent. It has nothing to do with the impact he's had on the field. I think it's just a degree. question of durability, right? I mean, Jaden Daniels came into the NFL with plenty of people in Preston's talent and plenty of people concerned he was too less, too lieth or too

little or too marginal to thrive as an NFL quarterback because he was so small. And last year we saw, you know, kind of the concern reaffirmed in some cases. And so we don't really have those concerns about Caleb Williams. We don't have those concerns about

Drake May. We'll see if those guys stay healthy for their entire career, safe and healthy so far as pros. So I think that's really the difference when it comes to production, obviously. Jaden Daniels has been more productive than Caleb Williams, and you could argue the situation was worse for Caleb Williams. I don't know if it's fair to say last year, but you sort of run into this question of, okay, how many teams would be interested?

With Drake May, any team of us have a quarterback would be interesting. With Caleb Williams, I don't think there's people so impressed with his college tape and kind of the highs of what we saw last year, that I think every team doesn't have a quarterback would be interested. With Jaden Daniels, you know denying the talent of the production, but I do think those concerns about, can we keep

him healthy? Can he keep himself healthy? Which keeps some teams from maybe not being as aggressive going after him. That's why I had him right below cable him. Gotcha. Yeah, I think that that is the obvious answer when it comes to Jaden.

Are you, as you view Washington, is that your number one concern, him playing? Because he barely played last year. You and I've had that conversation before. It's remarkable to me how many people, Bill, evaluate Jaden's season as a regression season or a stepback season as if he actually played football. He played in four games start to finish. And in two of those games, didn't have anybody out there with him. But beyond that, what is your view of the injury risk and then how you see his third season playing out? I love Jane and Daniel. To be clear, when I'm doing those trade evaluations, that is what I think the league thing. I know that. Exactly. I have Lamar Jackson.

Right. I'm safe for the listener. You know, Lamar Jackson, I had him, I think, two first-term picks, even though I think Lamar Jackson is a Hall of Famer, and I would happily give up two first-round picks and more to get Lamar Jackson if I were running a football team and had that opportunity. But when it comes to Jane and Daniels, I think he's a phenomenal football player. I think the poise is so important for him, the consistency, the ability to beat the blitz. His impact as a runner on design runs and on scramble is incredibly valuable. I think he's a truly smart player in terms of how he does protect himself, from taking his unnecessarily at times.

I mean, that Lamar Jackson, I think it's a genius out of avoiding those, the vast majority of the top. But the big question to me, and we talked a little bit about this, is the fit of Jaden Daniels in David Blowd's office. And this idea of we're going on the center, it's going to be, you know, turning your back on the defense and running play action off of that. Like that is a great fit for a Jared Goss, for example. It's not a great fit for a Jad & Daniels. He might be so talented that he is a great fit for it. And it might be a situation where week one we're sitting here and he looks brilliant and it's a great move. Like you sitting here, it might take six weeks for that work.

It might not work at all over the entire season. It's one of the more fascinating situations in the entire league, this idea of we're taking a quarterback who was driving when healthy over his first two years, learning a very specific and very consistent kind of offense to what he ran in school, and now changing it almost entirely to a more pro-style offense and seeing if that unlock something more out of him. A lot of teams want to take what a quarterback did, college, what they did early in their career, and they're making a very big bet, that they're

actually better off doing something entirely different. And I find that so fascinating because it's so different than how maybe other teams would approach the same situation. Are you concerned, like many fans of the team are, about the supporting cast offensively around him? I am, but I think, you know, certainly it's like other people. I know I am. I'm just sort of penciling in this idea that they're going to get somebody else. You know, this idea of whether it's Brandon I, You, Christopher Diggs, or this sort of a secondary

receiver for this offense, it does feel like at the end of the day, I'd be really shocked if we got to week one, and there was not a other receiver in the building. I don't know who that guy is yet, but you know, on paper, as is currently constructed unless Antonio Williams is a

really impressive rookie, or unless they do lean into more 12 or 13 and she had to be, you know, kind of a primary receiving tight ends, it feels lacking. And this is, again, especially for a quarterback who is still on a Ricky deal, making a relative bargain in terms of what he would cost, I think the vast majority of great quarterbacks on Ricky Fields have had more around them at receiver at this point of their careers in Jane and Daniels on paper right now.

But again, we're still, what, 45 or so days away from the start of the season, and I'd be surprised if there was not another edition between now and that. All right, well, let's talk about that. I mean, we've been, well, we were consumed with it for a few weeks. But I think, I mean, I believe, Bill, that if we, you know, go back a month and a half before the video series, the Netflix series starring Brandon Ayuk began, I actually think that there was major interest from Washington. I'd be surprised if there's interest now. What do you think about IUC to Washington? do you still consider that a possibility or not?

It does feel like an accurate representation of the situation. You know, it felt inevitable that this was going to happen. And now through Brandon IU.U.S. own maneuvering, whatever you want to say about them, it would seem surprising to me. And with all these situations in football, you know, these guys aren't always necessarily choir boys. They aren't necessarily, you know, the easy, to handle behind the scenes, wide receivers

more so with most other positions. But we saw it with the AJ Brown situation in Philadelphia, right? You know, AJ Brown had been sort of complaining here and there about his opportunities. But when the Eagles were winning, they didn't really seem to care. It was, hey, we'll make it work next week.

We could win even though we're going to focus on you in a given week. When A.J. Brown didn't have the best year last year and the Eagle struggled and suddenly was a bigger problem, and it'll end up to them making a move. With Iyuk, if you have Coming off of a 1,500-yard phasing, and he looked like he was the best receiver in football, I think the commanders would be treating this as an entirely different situation.

But coming off of an ACL, we haven't seen him in over a year. He was inconsistent early on in his career with the Niners. It wasn't like Al-Shannaan always saw them as, you know, an essential piece on office. Even bench him early in his sophomore season, you know, I think that combination and what's happened publicly just adds up to a situation that the commanders be like, why are we going to rush into this?

You know, Debo Samuel is still out there. Stefan Diggs is still out there. It's kind of telling when Stefan Diggs is out there and he thinks he's going to be much less of a headache than Burns and I, you, but that's probably where the commanders silence up now is just, we have other options. We don't have to go through this

for a player. We don't even feel that confident it's going to be a real difference makes. So, I agree with you. It felt like this was inevitable, and now it feels like I'd be almost surprised if it did happen, although I still think if it does happen with anybody, the commanders will still be the favorite. Give me the better chance. They enter the season against Philadelphia on September 13th

with a group of receivers from the roster as it exists now or with an addition. And if the answer is addition, who's the addition? I would say the addition side is my favorite, and I think the addition side of things, even if I think Stefan Diggs, for Debo Samuel are the favorite. I do think in the big picture, it's more likely to be someone who is on another roster at the moment. There's going to be guys who get squeezed

at the end of training camp might be a good fifth. Someone like a Cedric Tillman, for example, with the Cleveland Browns or a Pop Douglas, with the New England Patriots, where those guys are going to be fourth-fif options, don't play special teams or don't play special teams very often, where those guys are going to be concerned

for their roster spots, and they still might be valuable. number two, number three receivers for, you know, a team in the right role. I think about a couple of years ago where the commanders went out and who did they get from the Noah Brown. Noah Brown very late.

Noah Brown. Yeah, they got Noah Brown who was kind of the same situation, you know, had impressed a little bit with the Texans, but his roster spot squeezed by the Texans getting Devin a couple other players. He comes on and he wasn't, you know, an essential player for them, but he did have, you know, some catches.

here and there. So I would expect that sort of move. Okay. More than I think, but I do think at the end of the day, there's going to be someone coming into this building because I just think there's, you know, they plan this roster. You have to imagine for most of the year thinking, okay, we're leaving a spot in the lineup over them for IUC. So if it's not IUC, there is that spot. They need to fail before the start of the season. The two names that you mentioned are interesting. They're obviously two different players. DeMario Douglas actually played really well.

New England last year and had a couple of very good playoff games as well for them. But he's obviously a smaller slot guy where Cedric Tillman, for those of you who don't know, has played in Cleveland for three years drafted three years ago. And he's a big target. But that does, the way you sort of laid it out, that makes more sense to me. And look, they could end up with, you know, injuries or concerns more so than now that would also prompt that. So yeah, interesting. So let's real quickly, I want to go around the league with you. And I want to start with this. And you're the guy that would be able to somehow quantify this. But my gut tells me that the Rams roster on paper heading into this season, especially if Aaron Donald returns, might be one of the best and most complete rosters we've ever seen before an NFL season. Do you think that

there's a way to quantify that? Do you have the same gut feel about it? I do and I don't. I mean, I think it's certain position. You know, the defensive line, it's one of the deepest I've ever seen. At receiver, it's everyone with one day I have the number two options.

The offensive line is okay. Not terrible a but not, you know, a 2024 Eagles level offensive line. The secondary is much improved, but there's not necessarily a, you know, Pat through tan level cornerback. Here you thought I would quantify it.

And this is what I found interesting, is I went and looked at every team going back to the, I think, 1990, and their Super Bowl odds heading into the seat. And I adjusted for, you know, the Vegas, the sports book,

where it was propagated. I got some pro football reference. Yeah, sure. And the Rams, the Rans, the first year's Rams are the favorites, which should be surprising to anyone, they're only the 30th most significant favorite to win at Super Bowl going back to 1994. So they're favorites, but they're not like overwhelmingly dominant favorites the way that the mid-90s 49ers teams were,

according to their several others, even your typical Patriots team over, you know, kind of the peak of the Brady Dynasty over that 15-year span. And so I do think there's as talented as the roster isn't. There's no question, talented. If they didn't make the playoff, I think we'd be able to sit here right now. It'd be okay, well, Matthew Stafford got hurt. Yeah, of course. And the high system wasn't ready.

Or the offensive line was banged off, or, you know, the past choice was great, but the second was inconsistent. Or most realistically, just that division is so good that the Rams were a two-seed or a three-seat, and they got a road playoff game in the conference championship game and lost because, you know, the Eagles had a much easier schedule, or the Packers had an easier schedule,

or, you know, something like that. seems like it's entirely false book to me. So, I mean, the roster, no question. It is incredible. But they're favorite, but they're not even... Yeah, that's interesting. That's really interesting. You know, they're generational.

Yeah, that's something that's sort of been on my list to go back and check through the pro football reference preseason Super Bowl odds. I love looking at some of that stuff. And look, I mean, as we know, it's the NFL. What it looks like on paper doesn't mean anything. And, you know, last year, New England, and Seattle had over under totals of seven and a half and no one was expecting them to end up where they end up. I mean, this league, as you know, is really, it's week to week, let alone year to year.

Do you remember, like you said some of those Patriots teams, so I'm going to say, even though they lost the Super Bowl, that the 08 Patriots must have been a massive favorite. Maybe some of the Chiefs teams here recently, you know, you've been. mentioned some of the 49ers teams. I would bet you the Redskins in 92 were a pretty prohibitive favorite. The Bears in 86 must have been a prohibitive favorite. So what was, do you remember the biggest favorite when you went back and looked at it? Yeah. Oh, eight Patriots. Oh, eight Patriots. Yeah. And, Carmen, you remember what happened to the 2008 Patriots?

Yeah. Brady got hurt. They lose their quarterback. Yeah. It was their quarterback. And still won 11 games. They still won 11 games, but that year they lost to a Dolphin's team that had gone 1 in 15 the prior season. That would have been impossible. Right, right.

And that is exactly what happens. Patriots were the boys' Patriots were the top favorite, and then I think it was like four consecutive Niners teams from the mid-90s. Wow. And that's probably like, when people talk about the roster being so dominant, the Niners and the Cowboys. those early 90s teams, like right when the salary cap was becoming a thing, people didn't really know how it worked,

they were able to kind of exploit it. It was easier to get guys into free. I see them in this now. Those two teams to me, to stand out as like, oh, no, those were the most talented teams I have seen over the past 35 years, just because the rules were a little different.

The Rams, they're not at that level because they have a cap to deal with. They aren't quite as all in it. Maybe those teams were. They didn't have quite as much of an advantage that built upon, you know, with the Cowboys, there was all those drastic from the Hershal Walker era, and the Niners with, I think, having a real significant, you know,

advantage with Bill Walsh and George Seaford there. But they're as talented as anything I can think of during this, you know, sort of like current era of football with the current capitals. And, again, Vegas or people being in Vegas, so that implies seven times out of eight, They're not going to win the Super Bowl. Look, I thought they were the best team in the league last year, and special teams killed them in the Thursday night game late in the year in Seattle,

and then again in the NFC championship game. But, you know, again, it's the NFL. We have no idea how it will actually manifest itself, but defensively to add Miles Garrett, potentially get Aaron Donald back and add Trent McDuffie to an already talented group, you know, even though they lose Jared Verse. and then we know what they have at wide receiver and a quarterback.

I've been a Kyron Williams fan for a while. I think he is a really good back. All right. What about Kansas City and Mahomes? Will he be ready for that opening Monday night game against Denver? Are they expecting Mahomes to be the quarterback for 17 games, or will it be later? I do think right now, if you ask them secretly, truth theorem involved, they would say yes, they'd be nervous.

I think they're approaching an act if that is going to be the case. But we've seen this with so many ACL injuries over the year. You cannot count on a quarterback to see his normal self coming from an ACL tear, especially with this compressed of a time frame. And you normally see quarterback cell passes if they're not planting as well. They're nervous about traffic around their feet. And when you have a quarterback who was so incredibly dependent on creating out of structure, scrambling to create plays the way Patrick Mahomes had from the years past,

that's going to make things even more difficult. And so I do think that led to the Kenneth Walker edition, where they knew, okay, we have to invest in our running game, we have to create more explosive. They'll last and explosive run rate on design runs over the past two seasons by a significant margin. They had back if you get, you know, when you needed – two, they could get two. When you needed eight, they could also get two. That's not necessarily the most helpful thing to have when you have a quarterback coming off

the injury. So I do think that offense early in the season, even if Mahomes is there, it's going to be more run-driven than it's been in years past. Or more play action-driven kind of more about, you know, trying to create answers from Mahomes that aren't going to be, you know, as intensive for him in terms of being a creator. As for your word on, he's a competitor. I think at the end of the day, when you have big plays or big moments, we've seen him in years past when he had high ankle sprains, right? Yeah.

You know, just a scrabble old game, and it's third in the Super Bowl, and he's going to scrabble for a first down. You know, I don't think they're going to be able to turn that off, but I do think they approached this year expecting something less than the usual homes early in the season. I think it'll be on the field, but I do think it's going to be a lot of Kenneth Walker early in the year. Back to the NFC East, you talked about, you know, the David Blow

fit with Jaden Daniels. Well, Sean Mannion is certainly going to overhaul that offense and put Jalen Hertz under center a lot more than he's been during his career. How do you think that fit will work? Not well. But being completely honest, it comes

to the passing game. I don't think that place Jalen Hertz's strength. I think it takes him out of the quarterback run game, and I think that's something that he added significant value with, with his legs. You know, on design runs over the past five or six years. The only difference is with the Eagles, I do think the run game is going to work.

With the zone running scheme, and the McClum Berkley in the great offensive line, I think they're going to be able to run the ball really effectively, and so that's going to make life easier for Jalen Hurst and not put him in obvious past in situations quite as often. The commanders, I'm hopeful, good offensive line. I think Chobody Crossley-Emerit was underrated last year as a pure runner, the Chrisad White, a solid player, a solid rotational back, but they don't have a fakeom-burt.

They don't have Elaine Johnson in the life, they don't have the same caliber of talent throughout the run game. And so I think the Eagles version is more likely to work for reasons unrelated to the quarterback, even if I think Jane and Daniels is a better passer than Jalen Hurts, which to be clear, I do.

All right, I'll finish up with this, rather than getting your Super Bowl pick on July 23rd. Give me a team out of each conference that you just have a really good hunch, is much, that will end up being much better than most people will end up predicting them to be.

Oh, boy. Okay. In the NFC, I'll throw out the Giants, where I'm counting on a coaching upgrade. I think the defense is really stacked. I think the, not German, I and Jackson Dart, their most giant fans are, but I do think Jackson Dark can be a competent quarterback. They haven't had a lot of their key pieces because of injuries of times over the past three years. years in terms of the offensive line, which I think is deeper.

And at the end of the day, I really believe in John Harbaugh. I think there's a real significant coaching upgrade that was made here. So I'm not saying they're going to win the Super Bowl, but I could see them being kind of a surprise playoff team over on the NFC side of the thing. And then on the AFC side of thing, something I read in the football out of the FDN Football Almanac recently, formerly the Football Omanac, which I contributed to many years ago. They had the Houston Texans as the favorite to win the AFC and make it to the Super Bowl. And that doesn't seem popular, not like people are talking to the Texans right now,

but the more I thought about it, the more I liked it in terms of what CJ Stroud, did in the regular season before all the playoffs stuff happens, in terms of the upgrades they've made on the offensive line, obviously of the defense is incredible. And they play in a relatively easy division. So people see the Texans. I think they kind of say, okay, we know what they are. They're a team that's going to win one playoff game and then kind of settle and falter from there. I do think the Texans have legitimate Super Bowl upside. And I don't know if people are really talking about them that way or not. They don't feel the Texans, the different sort of teams over in the AIS. I like that one. I really liked them before the postseason last year

to make a super deep run and potentially be in the Super Bowl. And I still feel thinking. I have a feeling we talked about this. If they just hand the ball off and punt in Foxborough, they would have won that game. Agreed. Yeah. Instead of letting...

Excuse me? Because Drake May was not good in that game either. He was terrible throughout the postseason. But they kept dropping C.J. Stroud back, and they kept turning it over, and their defense kept creating opportunities. but they kept giving them back. And I loved watching that defense last year.

I mean, and they are loaded again this year. Thanks for doing this, as always. Hope you're well, and maybe we'll talk right before the season starts. Looking forward to it, Kevin. Thanks so much. Bill Barnwell, everybody. We'll talk to Ben Standing next after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, I want to welcome a new sponsor to the podcast. The name of the product is Tushy, as in yes, that Tushy, your backside. And many of you

should listen closely because I think this is something that will really help you. You know, it's 2026. America just celebrated. It's 250th birthday. In two and a half centuries, we've put men on the moon. We've built the internet. We've automated almost every single piece of technology. But when it comes to the bathroom, most of you are still cleaning yourself. like you're living in the colonial days. Well, Tushy Badee can change that. It can transform your bathroom wellness for life. From gut to butt to bowl.

Soothe your bottom with instantly warm water that never runs cold. 99% of people who wash with Tushy warm water bidetes feel cleaner and fresher after going to the bathroom. This is a product that is easy to install. Takes about 10 minutes to complete. Literally anybody can do it. It's easy to use. You sit, you cleanse, and dry using the built-in air dryer. That's right. Cleaning yourself after using the bathroom is now hands-free. And people who have made the switch to Tushy use up to 80% less TP. No more clogged toilets. No more wasting money on something that does an inferior job cleaning your body. Stapositioning stops at your waistband. Stay fresh all day with Tushy. For a limited time, my listeners get 10% off their first bidet order when you use Code Sheehan at checkout. That's 10% off your first bidet order at hellotushy.com with promo code Sheean.

This segment of the show is brought to you by Window Nation. If you need new windows, I highly recommend Window Nation. They're offering 50% off of everything. thing right now, all Windows styles. They've got over 1,500 Windows styles to choose from. And if you choose to finance the purchase after paying half price, you'll pay no money down, no monthly payments, and no interest for two full years. If you've been thinking about new windows, all I ask is just give Window Nation a chance to come out and give you a free in-home estimate. It'll be convenient for you. It'll take an hour or less. You'll actually find out which one. Windows need to be replaced versus those that don't.

And then if you decide to move forward with them, that's your choice. They'll leave you with a quote and then they'll leave you alone. Call now to schedule that fast free in-home estimate. 86690 Nation. You can also go to windownation.com. Joining me right now is my good friend Ben Standing. I would urge everybody, especially with Training Camp, opening up tomorrow if you're not a subscriber to Ben's last. Man Standing substack.

Go to At Beddnestandig, and you can link to last manstandig. Dot substack.com. It's a couple of bucks a month. It's totally worth it. I'm a subscriber. I think you should be as well. So let me just mention something real quickly, because I could be wrong about this. We haven't talked about Brandon Ayuk, at least on my show, at any point this week.

It's been all quiet on the Ayuk front. And in fact, there's not been much to talk about because there's been very little from Brandon Ayuk in the last several days. Now, he's gone on a couple of, you know, hiatuses. Is that the plural of hiatus where we didn't hear from him for a couple of days? And then he would come back strong with some new video. But I still think there is a long shot chance, long shot, that somebody gets a hold of him. He's got good representation, finally. He figures it out with the 49ers.

He applies for reinstatement. He gets, you know, to sit down with them. He apologizes in some sort of public way. And he repairs his image. Maybe it's not a full makeover, but he repairs his image enough so that a month from now or a month and a half from now, maybe some teams are interested. do you think that that's possible? Well, wait, you know, I was out of town for a bit.

Did he get a new agent, or you're just saying a hypothesis? No, I'm just wondering, it's been very quiet on the IUC. Oh, I got you. Yeah. I got you. You know, well, I mean, my guess would be if he did have a new agent, somehow it would come out that the new agent is representing him, even if neither the agent nor Brandon Ayuk said anything,

but that would just be my guess. I don't know, man. obviously that could be key, right? I mean, whatever he's doing on his own, on his own is not working. You know, you said it's been quieter on the, on the IUC front here, and in general, because he hasn't been putting out as much content. It does feel also that, and maybe this is just us,

but like it does feel like any type of thought this was going to happen diminished a lot after the social media post. I guess it's been a couple weeks now. where he kind of seemed to take a jab at Jaden and then Jaden's mom and all that. That's obviously, you know, if you're going to go down that route, that's a tough way to go. So, like, I guess if the question is, do I think Brandon E. He plays in the NFL again?

The answer would be yes. We've seen, you know, far, guys who've got into far more trouble than he play, you know, after the fact, you know, but he's going to have. I mean, the thing what's so frustrating about this is, this is not that complicated. Okay, the riff with the 49ers happened.

Cool. They took 40-Oiners, took away a bunch of guarantees. I seemingly didn't seem to care. Nothing that may seem to the rest of us. Okay. But then to not parley that into, cool, but then you've got to let me go kind of bit, or just that he didn't show up to their facility.

There's so many little things that could have been done here, seemingly to get let go. And he just didn't do them. And it doesn't feel like you need an agent to have to know these things. You know, like, you can do a Google search and figure out what do I need to do to get released. So the fact that it hasn't happened, it just feels so unprofessional. So beyond all the other concerns and, you know, it doesn't seem like complicated for him

to get this done. Therefore, I don't know who's going to be able to talk to him. put some sense in there because, again, we're not talking about things that are that nuts here. Yeah, I mean, he's got a union that literally is there to help him navigate if he doesn't have representation through all of this. So it takes a desire and maybe just a little bit more of intelligence to figure out something that isn't that hard to figure out. Look, I think I am where you are because the last time we talked, I think we were both in the same spot, which is I'm now leaning probably 70, 30, maybe even 80, 20, that they get to opening day on September 13th with receivers that are currently on the roster now. Yeah, I think that that's kind of where I am. And the key point is that today's view, I mean, beyond injuries, let's just see what happens.

I remember last year, probably the day in training camp that really sent alarms off. For me was when they did an inter-squad scrimmage and the defense really controlled the offense. And I remember, of course, if Terry McCorn wasn't there and, you know, they had some other injuries and Tumphol wasn't practicing and all that. But nobody was getting open. And this is still, you know, even though it's a real practice. is it's not a hardcore game, and they couldn't get everybody open. So if they go through some of these early steps, they get if they do another inter-squive scrimmage,

and it's like, man, we still can't get anybody open here. You know, maybe McClure, then maybe something has to happen. But other than that, I think they're going to give as much rope as they possibly can to this current group at this stage. I mean, you know, I'm not going to rule out. You know, after that when you say, like, 80% of likely, that acknowledges there's still a possibility that it could happen. I think sometimes people get caught up in the,

You said it's not going to happen. No, it's just, if I have to lay out the odds, something could happen. So, sure, I mean, if, you know, Stefan Diggs really wants to play at home and he's willing to take an easy deal or incentive-lated and they decide, okay, we're cool, then sure, maybe that happens or whatever. But, yeah, I kind of feel like at this point they're going to roll with what they have. And, you know, again, I think it's important to remember if they're going to use more 12-and-13 personnel this year, which we believe they will, then that means there's only two receivers on the field at most. a good chunk of the time. And, you know, between Antonio Williams and some of the vets,

again, I'm not saying this is Gary Clark and our month, but it is also something that can work if they know when to plug and play certain players in certain situations. And Jaden does this thing that he did in 2024. So, yeah, I'm with you all

across the board on the... All right, Ben's written on his substack over the last three days an offensive and a defensive column about the biggest questions facing each side of the ball with training camp now a day away, rookies reporting, and we'll get the first full practice next week. So I don't want you to give away the entire stories here. I want people to go read it for themselves.

But other than Jaden and his health, which I think is the number one question, and really the most important thing about the 2026 season is, you know, if we look back on it, will be, well, did Jaden, if somebody tells me right now Jaden Daniels played all 17 games healthy, I'm telling you that they won more games than they lost. I'm not going to tell you exactly how many games they won, but they won at least nine. So let me actually ask you, if we fast forwarded ahead and we know that Jaden Daniels was healthy for the entire 2026 season, started and played. in all 17 games, what would you think would be worse case? Yeah, I mean, I think kind of what you would just laid out.

I mean, you know, projecting it to get to 10 wins, 11 wins, I mean, you get to bounce of the balls and injuries elsewhere, blah, blah, blah. But in terms of if he's available and he's playing all the games and, you know, we are talking about some version that looks more like the 2024 version, I'm with you, it seems like that would be a reasonable call to say they finish it, 500. And then you go, you go from there. I did, like in, like you said,

Jaden is done on everything for this team, you know, it no offense or but. Well, in the category of the quarterback in right, what's the biggest question? The injury is obviously a thing, but I wrote basically, does he look more like the 2024 version than he did last year? And we can come up with all the reasons

as to why last year was a mess even when he was playing, But at no point did the offense look like it was clicking the same way that it did in 24. I mean, maybe that Chargers game was about as close as they got. The Chargers and the Bears game. Okay. Two out of the four that he played in start to finish, I think looked like the previous year. I mean, it was close enough. Okay.

I mean, maybe. But I would, anyway, the point is just that, you know, it's, it, got to look like, you know, something more like that. I mean, again, they've set up with the receiver room where it's Terry McCorn and, you know, kind of a lot of uncertainty, but that was the exact same room they had essentially in 2024. And that worked out fantastic. And now they have a more athletic tight end. If Bill is able to be, you know, something more akin to a three-down back, they've got a more explosive guy than in the backgold than they did a couple of years ago,

even though Eckler and Robinson were effective. So, you know, it does hinge so much on Shaden Daniels because it almost has kind of set it up that way. Every team is dependent on the quarterback, but, you know, this is not a group that has a lot of obvious pieces elsewhere to really sort of lean on, and that's why, yeah, he's got to be on the field. And if he is, I agree to you, I think a winning record would seem to be a reasonable conclusion. All right.

So what are the other big questions heading into, 2026 on offense that you want to mention. You know, the ones that may be, you know, like obviously we've thought about as a fan base, the receiver core, and who's going to be the number two? What else?

Give me something else that you find very interesting and a big question mark. Yeah, I mean, I think that, putting, again, putting Jayden aside, I think the player that the ceiling for this offense hinges on the most is probably to Corey Crosky Merritt.

because what we saw last year was very intriguing, obviously, right? I mean, finished third among rookie running backs in rushing yards, had some pretty big games. We saw the explosive ability, the way he can, you know, swerve in and out of traffic between the tackles is impressive. But he was also a early downback only. There was no, he was not involved in the passing game. And, you know, one of the big faults last year was,

but his team was just they didn't have a running back, who you could put out there, and the defense would know, okay, we have no idea what's about to happen here. It was always pretty obvious whether it was going to be run or pass to a degree. If Bill can be a guy who can be in there for three downs, I'm not saying he plays 80% of the snap. I just mean if he's on the field, you don't know exactly what's going to happen. I think that changes so much.

Because if it's not that way, if it's more like it was a year ago, and I know you're big on the Rashad White situation, and he looks good at the summer, he's been productive, he catches 40, 50 balls every year. But that would mean more of something akin to a 50-50 split with those two. And now I just think that the ceiling comes down a bit. I'm not saying that why he isn't good, but look, again, he got a one-year, $2 million deal.

The Tampa Bay was willing to move on from him with getting Bucky Irving and some other guy. So it's not like, you know, he had a huge market. We can assume something, but I don't know if there's a lot of upside there. So I think that Bill, if he's able to be something like a three-down back, I just think with his explosive ability, I just think that takes the offense up another level in ways that they just don't have anybody else in the back field to do it. And like we already established, there's nobody at the second receiver spot

where we can sit here and say, well, that somebody you can lean on in this way. So I just think that Bill, what he doesn't get to think, we just didn't see it much because he missed all the OTAs. Are they comfortable with him as a past protection? in the passing game. But I think as a receiver, he looks okay, but, you know, you've got to be able to protect the quarterback. That's a huge question, and we'll see that,

to some degree, play out here in training camp. I do think that's a huge deal for what this offense can look like. I think, you know, adding to your point there is that after Jaden, the next most explosive player offensively right now is Kroski Merritt. You know, and Dan Quinn has said a couple of times, in the offseason. He said it to me when he was on here, and I remember specifically, I said, what do you really need? He said, I need somebody that can get to the quarterback, and I need somebody that can score from anywhere on the field. And he has that in his quarterback, but I think

Bill, Kroski Merritt, is the other player, and maybe the only other player that is truly a home-run threat. Terry is to a certain degree, but Kroski-merit proved it in the Dallas game. I was also looking as you were talking about him. You know, in some of those better offensive games for Washington, he played well. And I'm talking about the games with Jaden. The Charger game, 14 carries 111 yards, two touchdowns. He also had two catches for 39 yards. Remember, one of them was on a third and long, I remember, and he made a really good catch,

made somebody miss, and then had a big game. Chicago game, he got 17 carries in that game. even later in the season, when they were competitive and beat the Giants with Marioada, he was a major factor. And then the Dallas game was the first game where he actually, Steve Suter used to say about Kroski-Marit. I like everything, but he's got to prove that when he gets to that second level, he can turn it into a big play. And he didn't prove that until this season finale, or the Christmas Day game against the Cowboys.

So I like that one. I do like Rashad White because I always liked Rashad White in Tampa. I thought he was a good between the tackle's vision runner, and I think he fits more of a zone run scheme, and he's more experienced as a pass catcher and as a pass blocker. So it's not going to surprise me if he ends up being on the field as much or even more. But to your point, they're much more dynamic if Kroski Merritt is on the field as a true home run explosive threat.

In the same way, to a certain extent, Echler doesn't have his true home run, but they were more dynamic with Echler on the field in 24, much more offensively. And also, Eckler was a guy that, again, maybe you're not ideal guy to be your lead back at this point of his career, you know, two years ago even. But when he was on the field, I don't know what's going to happen.

Yeah, Pat, he was probably like it, but he's a capable of, running between the tackles. And then once he got hurt, you know, that's just kind of where things went sideways. I mean, Cameron, Nichols can do a lot of these things, but that's not a guy you want to have, uh, giving the ball to too many times. And, uh, you know, Rashad White, I think can't be that guy, like you said, but again, it's just a lower ceiling. So yeah, I think that Bill, um, there's a lot here, uh, to consider with what he might be able to, uh, to do. All right. You wrote about the biggest defensive questions facing the team entering training camp. You know, the first thing that comes to mind for me is Durante Jones,

so let's move past that. What else, you know, came to mind for you in terms of the biggest defensive questions? Because I think you and I talked about this on radio the other day. Last season was the most anticipated in decades, or certainly since 2013. And this year is probably the biggest mystery unknown about so much of the team entering the season. And a lot of is on defense. So there was a lot to choose from after Durante Jones. So hit me with a couple of them. Well, I think one, you know, we keep to some degree, you know, half serious, half joking, is Durantangane going to do another contract year kind of season? Or, you know, he had 11 and a half sacks in 2020, but he's only had 11 in the three years since. But it also got me thinking,

well, is it possible? It just doesn't have that gear in him anymore? Because I remember last year, the coaches back in OTAs and minicamp were saying that DeRont Payne is such a menace in practice that he's like ruining practice. Yeah, right. I remember that. And look, he had a good year. Like, I mean, it's not, you know, it's not like he was bad.

That's why, like, I didn't have an issue with him keeping him even at the higher cap number because it creates a hole if they let him go. The thing is, though they're paying him not to be good, but to be great. That's what the number is. And that hasn't been there. If he's able to do that, and maybe that helps, maybe it happens this year, when he has more help coming off the edges at the patch rusher and et cetera. But I guess we also have to really consider maybe he just doesn't have that.

I mean, maybe he is good, but it doesn't have a great gear in him. I think that's something obviously to consider. I'm not worrying about what happened after this season. I'm just talking about this season. You know, Ken, because if he isn't anything close to what he was in 22, when we talk about what his defense could be, I think that changes it a lot. again, from a ceiling perspective, I think it goes up a fair amount.

If you have a guy in the middle, but the other team is going to have to double team all the time, especially now that you have these bigger threats coming off the edge. So that's one of the big ones. Here's one of the smaller ones that I've just, I put in here, I even stated that at this position, this is not the biggest story,

but for me I'm just sort of fascinated by. And that is, what is the deal with a Meek Robertson? This is a guy they signed to a two-year, $16 million deal, right near the starter free agency. Not a huge amount of money, but when you're signing somebody early,

you're kind of saying this is one of the guys that we won't bring in. And, you know, he's versatile. He plays well in the slot in his career. They really like his energy, his aggressiveness,

his competitiveness. Good. Great. Good stuff. But then when you're looking at it more, you're like, okay, well, wait a minute. He's best in the slot,

but they're going to play a lot of three, four, and four three, such that they're going to use the slot cornerback left in theory, right? Then they did in the years past, not to mention who's to say, if you've got a 3-4, or you got a 4-3, that's 7, you only get 4-more.

So there's not a 5th defensive back on the field, yes. Right, right. So, and even if they go to nickel, who's to say it's not going to be a third safety? I don't think that's something that we can ignore. Right. True. You know, for sure.

So then you're like, okay, well, does you play on the outside? Well, if you go back and look what happened with Detroit last year, you know, you say what you want about PFF or whatever, whatever, but like his analytics was pretty ugly last year, and that was in large part because he had to play more on the outside when the lions had injuries. And he's, you know, he's even smaller than Mikey Sandorstell in terms of the height. We know that Sanders still is not exactly a giant out there. Plus, you've got Trey Amos, you've got Santerstall, and they just bring in Russell, which makes a lot of sense because they needed more outside depth. So it sort of gets me thinking, what, I don't know, I don't know what, I mean, Robert's role is.

you can tell me that, sure, but like, I'm just, like, I don't know where he's even fitting in at all. And so that, to me,

is really interesting because of the fact that he was a guy that they targeted very early in free agency, knowing what the defense was going to look like. I mean,

this is, they didn't change their mind since free agency. So I just think that's interesting that they targeted this guy, and I, if it's again,

it's not so much the years and the money, it's not that big of a deal. It's just, like, I don't know what the plan is, and bringing in Douglas, only reinforces, I don't know what the plan is.

And I'm okay with that, but I just know I'm curious what they think is going to happen. Yeah, I think it's, I think defensively, because we have a sense, as long as they don't add another key player, we have a sense of what it will look like on offense. I mean, there's the question of Chris Paul or Brandon Coleman. There's the question of, you know, who's actually receiver two and receiver three and will be more white than Kroski-merit, et cetera. But defensively, there's just, you know, they've got they signed so many players and they've got a lot of linebackers and they've got a lot of pass rushers,

maybe not elite ones, but good ones, the one that they paid the most money to, you would certainly expect to be on the field in Philadelphia on the first third and long, at the very least, always going to be on the field, but who's going to be opposite him? Is it going to be Chase on? Is it going to be Dorrance Armstrong who will be coming back? All of that's just interesting stuff about the defense. and I don't think we're going to get a really good feel for their situational football until the opener. We may have a feel for who trots out onto the field for first and 10 when Jalen Hertz and the Philadelphia offense take the field. But after that will be really interesting to watch.

You wrote about a player, and rather than have you talk about the player, I'm going to ask you a question that I asked my callers the other day. And that is, you know, Washington added more new players to their team than any team in the league in free agency. 17 new players now, if you count Russell Douglas, added in free agency, didn't play on the team last year. And I asked the question of the 17 new players, not counting draft picks, who do you feel the most comfortable with, won't do anything? than contribute. Because here's the bottom line. A couple of the, even the two and three year guys that they signed, not everybody's going to hit. There's going to be a bust or two, maybe three, when you sign a class that big. In terms of what we think at the end of year one anyway, it may be different year two, who knows? But is there a player that you feel most confident

has the highest floor will be out there and will contribute in a way that more than matches the contract that he got. Yeah, I'm trying to think of some guys that I wrote about it. So I'm going to go with Nick Cross. That was my answer. I think there are two obvious answers because of the opportunities, Chigacanquo in offense, and I think Nick Cross on defense. But tell me why you answered Nick Cross. And what you wrote about?

What can you pick in the turf? What a suck. Right. Well, it wasn't, yeah. But I actually really feel that way about both. Yeah.

No, I hear you. I'm just kidding. Yeah. Look, obviously, you know, O'A and Chesson got more attention to those signings than Cross.

You mentioned style, or, you know, styles obviously getting him in and, you know, et, et cetera. The Nick Cross signing went a little bit more under the radar.

I mean, not that he's a mystery man in the league. He's played four years. started all 17 games each of the last two years. He's been pretty effective. He was pretty effective for the Colts. As a run defender, he is very effective from the safety position. Good speed.

He's aggressive, all these things. I just think, though, the key is that, like, I think he can look at it right now, make an argument that he's the best player they have in the secondary. I'm not discounting Trey Amos or anybody else, but I think it might be Nick Cross. he also might be the guy that like when we talk about all the Durante Jones blitzing and guys come from different angles and we're thinking about it like the edge guys and the defensive tackled.

But, you know, as we see often with teams, it's that sort of random defensive back who's flying in untouched who causes problems or make plays. And I think that's going to be Nick Cross. He's also a guy that is on the field pretty much all the time, or at least he was with the cold. So I just think that there's, you know, from a floor to. feeling perspective. I think the floor is pretty high. And, you know, again, I'm not saying this is the next Sean Taylor or anything if he doesn't have that type of upside, but I do think that there's a player here who may fit very, very well into this defense and give them that extra playmaker in the

secondary that maybe they haven't had as much the last few years. So much talk about tackling and becoming a better tackling team. And Nick Cross is a high-level. NFL tackler. You also had the next-gen number that he led the NFL among safeties with 33 run stops resulting in unsuccessful offensive plays last year. He can run, he can really play well in the box, he can tackle. And by the way, he can play free too. He's got enough range and enough speed to drop back if that's where they decide to use them. And I think to your point earlier, you know, first of all, the opportunity's there, and I don't see a better safety talent-wise on the roster. And I think there's going to be, you know, Minnesota used three safeties a lot.

You know, the five D-Bs, the nickel package may include three safeties, you know, at times, more than three corners, which would certainly be interesting with Kwan Martin or even a guy like Jeremy Reeves being the third safety on the field. But I, my answer to that was Nick Cross. I think Akonkwo clearly has the biggest opportunity because there's nobody else at the position that can be the pass-catching tight end first string. Not that we know of anyway at this point. So they signed him to catch a lot of passes and to be targeted a lot this year. So I think his floor is pretty high. But I think people are sleeping on how good Nick Cross was last year and how available he is.

By the way, a Conquo, too. They just don't miss games or they haven't in their first four years of their career. All right, Ben covers the Wizards as part of his substack as well. There was a report last night on Yahoo Sports that LeBron James is waiting to make his decision on his next team. Part of the reason for waiting is he wants to find out where Anthony Davis is going to play next year. More on that after these words from a few of our sponsors. If you've been listening to this podcast and you like it and you haven't rated or reviewed this show and you don't mind doing it, it's so big for us to continue to get ratings and reviews. Apple and Spotify make it very easy to rate this show.

They've got a star count. You can just click on hopefully five stars. That's the best case for us if you think the show deserves it. Just click on five stars and you're done. Apple allows you to write a quick review, which is helpful for us as well. These things just show an interest in the show, an excitement and a loyalty to the show, and that really helps us, especially as we head towards football season, sell advertising. So if you haven't done it and you don't mind doing it, it's big for us to get as many ratings and reviews as possible.

I'd appreciate it if you would take literally a minute top. to do it. Following the podcast is a big deal for us too. That's also really easy. You just hit the plus button or the follow button on whichever platform you are listening to this show on. We continue with Ben Standig switching subjects to the Wizards. Ben also covers the Wizards as part of his substack. And there was a report last night from Kevin O'Connor at Yahoo Sports that LeBron James is waiting to make his decision in free agency. And the weight is really about two players and their fates. Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis.

He would like to team up with one or the other in a new place, hopefully in his mind's eye, giving him the best chance to compete for a championship. Kyrie Irving, remember, tours ACL late in the season, plays in Dallas. Where would that reunion take place? Maybe in Cleveland. Anthony Davis and LeBron James, as most of you know,

won a title together with the Lakers during the 2020 bubble season. And he enjoyed playing with Anthony Davis, and he would love to reunite with Anthony Davis. I'm going to ask you a question here in a moment about the possibility of the two of them reuniting. But I want to make sure, Ben, you're where I am. right now. And I think you are because I think we've talked about this. I believe that Anthony Davis isn't going anywhere. I think it makes the most sense for the Wizards to keep him. They got him for next to

nothing. And right now it would be hard to trade him for a significant compensation package, something that would be worthwhile because he hasn't played in a while. So am I right that right now you believe Anthony Davis isn't going anywhere that he's going to play in Washington this upcoming season? I believe he is not getting moved, correct? I agree with you. And I think that what they have, they're going to have. But if I told you that one of the two things, one of these two things happened, he got traded for a very handsome compensation package,

which I think is one of the reasons they wouldn't trade him now, because I don't think they would get one. But let's just say they did, that that was option one. Option two is that LeBron James joined Anthony. Davis in Washington, one of those two things happened over the next, you know, few weeks, which of those two would you prefer? Preferer? I would prefer trade. Not me.

I mean, well, I mean, if you're talking about from a content standpoint that you've got to fill three hours a day, I got to write stuff, all that, sure. Having a book would be, would be all kinds of, you know, helpful in that regard. But in terms of where this group is, I just think, like, I know people have said that, like, Anthony Davis and Trey Young's team don't seem to match where the Wizards are with all the other, with the young players and the graphics and the tanking and the this. And I don't completely agree with that because I still think that the focus is the younger guys. But if you bring in LeBron, that is the collapse over. Now it is a completely different show. And we'll talk about AJ DeBont at some point.

Like, it is a different deal all the other stuff. from that perspective, I just think it would be the ultimate sugar high, not even meaning he's going to get them to a title, I just mean it's the sugar high for all the attention that you would get, but I don't think it helps the bigger picture because I'm not assuming LeBrona here for more than 10 minutes. So, no, I would, especially get, you're saying that the trade they would get would be pretty good, not just like,

it will give you like a random first and some of your, like, a pretty, you know, bigger haul than that, then that would be more enticing, and you could still have, you know, a team that could potentially make the playoffs or whatever with the young guys. You're not making the playoffs without Anthony Davis playing a lot of games next year. You could go from 17 wins to 33 wins, you know,

but you're not making the playoffs without a veteran, you know, player with his potential leading the way. Trey Young's not leading them along with all of their young players to 44 or, you know, 43, wins or 42 wins. I, and I think that look, the drama, the

attention, the content, of course. But for me, I don't want to wait any longer on what still is, still is a who knows. Maybe the combination of Sarr and DeBanza and George

and Will Riley and Trey Young for a few years and, you know, and Kulabali, and I can name all of them, maybe they develop into a contender at some point or a playoff team at some point. But it's going to be a few years before we know for sure if that's the core that is, you know, that's on the roster. But there's no guarantee. What you would get with LeBron is, hey, you would get, you know, no downside because what a mentor he would be to A.J. DeBanza and all of these young players, you're going to guarantee that

you're going to play meaningful basketball, you know, in the upcoming season. And I say guarantee, because I still think Anthony Davis would be a big part of that. So he's still got to stay healthy. But maybe AD would be more motivated with LeBron there. And if it lasted just a year or two, it would be a great thing for all of the young players to experience that. But that's just me. That's the way I would see it.

I also just don't think, Ben, that anybody's interested in trading what would be considered to be worthwhile compensation to the Wizards for them to do this. You know, they shouldn't do it. They didn't give up that much, and now they have a chance if they're going to deal him, they deal him after he's played 35 games and played really, really well at the trade deadline, where he's then really worth something. Right.

I mean, I agree. I mean, I think trading him now would be about just sort of getting out, the Anthony Davis business, but there's no reason to do that unless he's forcing their hand. And I think that's one of the things that has been honestly fairly shameful with the NBA media slash aggregators slash fans. It's just this constant assumption that Anthony Davis is forcing his way out of here. I have not heard one peep that that's even remotely accurate. Now, again, can things change?

Of course, if LeBron really is in Anthony Davis are really going to think they're tied together, than obviously if LeBron goes to one of these other teams says, get me him, well, the chances of Anthony Davis pushing for a trade then become more likely that he's done it before in his career. But there's literally no, there's nothing other than just the general assumption that comes with the general assumption that people like Stephen A have been

going with the wizard that they're trash, that this is still the organization that it was for the last 20 years. And don't get me wrong, I mean, I'm not here to say that, you know, everything is completely, fully fixed. You know, PTSD, we all have it. But, like, it is massively different than what it was in terms of what they've been doing the last three or four years with this new group.

So the idea that Anthony Davis looks at this is getting me the hell out of here. I just don't think that's the case. And again, if Anthony Davis is wanted out, he's not showing up in Vegas and doing all the, you know, showing up for the first summer league game and going to Tray Young's press conference. He doesn't need to do any of that. he's Anthony Davis. If he wants to get moved, he'll force his way out. He doesn't need to kiss the wizard's butt if he thinks that this is garbage. So I just think that the constant idea

that he wants out of here is nonsense. Also, the idea that the wizard want to extend him, the way people think they want to expect what an extension means, like another three years, $200 million or some insane amount. I think that's also nuts. I don't see that happening either. Now again, things could change, but it's very different giving Tray Young that deal at 27 years old when you don't have a point guard versus Anthony Davis at 33 when he's constantly missing 20, 30, 40 games a year. For where they are, I don't see that happening either. So I just think that there's a complete misread on what's going on. Again, that's today.

Who knows what happens tomorrow? But whatever anybody is saying now is speculation or run amok, it's not based on any reality that I can see. In the meantime, Brandon Ayuk has posted. just an Instagram picture of him wearing a commander's hat and a burgundy shirt and a gold wrist band. Can you imagine like up until at least a couple weeks ago when he made when he seemed to say maybe take a swipe at jade and we're all like okay maybe this is going to happen. I mean he's really going hard in the paint on this and obviously we get the connections here. But we'd be funny if we find out eventually the commanders had no interest

And he just randomly got all this commander's gear He's looking like a lunatic in retrospect Like he's dressing up like he's a Halloween For something that's not happening That was something pretty funny Yeah well the lunatic part I mean there's you don't need all the Washington get up To stretch to there

All right Appreciate it I'll talk to you soon Can I have a guy just say I want one one last thing Yep Um, yes, so I assume this is, we're talking on Thursday, at the prisons will go up today. Right. Yesterday, Wednesday, I happen to be the one-year anniversary of my substack.

And I just wanted to thank you and your listeners because I can't be. You obviously, been very, very cool with me, constantly talking about it, you know, recommending people to sign up and all that. But I constantly get people telling me, hey, I always hear you. I, you know, I hear you on she and I was at Summer League. for the Wizards games, and this is true. Like, I'm walking down the concourse, and some guy just stops me, pulls me over,

like, basically, a hug to be like, oh, my God, I listen to you and Kevin all the time, and I'm so glad it's so cool to meet you and all this. And, you know, so much of my ability here to keep going here with this site has come from, obviously, the subscribers, and so I know it's come from you. That's nice, but as a subscriber,

it's because you cover the team incredibly well. you know I felt that way for a while now, you know, since the beginning of Ben at the athletic. But yeah, no, it's totally worth it. And I wouldn't say it if I wasn't, if I didn't feel that way. I read Ben and it's the go-to now. And look, we're a different town from a beat reporter standpoint than we were a year ago. I mean, there's not a major newspaper in a major sports section in town anymore. and I thought you were, you know, equal to that, if not better anyway. All right, I'll talk to you later.