The Kevin Sheehan Show - Trading Up For Caleb?

Episode Date: February 13, 2024

Kevin and Thom opened with more on the Chiefs' Super Bowl win over the 49ers including a discussion on who the "clutch QB" historical comps are for Patrick Mahomes. Plenty on the criticism Kyle Shanahan is facing after losing his third Super Bowl after leading by 10 pts or more. The guys talked Commanders' QB plans including contemplating a trade up one spot with the Chicago to select Caleb Williams. The latest on Ted Leonsis' proposed deal with Northern Virginia which hangs in the balance finished up the show.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's with me today. We'll get his reaction to the Super Bowl. He wrote about Patrick Mahomes. Show, as always, presented by Window Nation.

Call them at 86690 Nation or head to Window Nation.com. We've got a couple of really good reviews in here that I've been saving for your next appearance. This one comes from JL. He writes, Best Show Since 980 Days, Tommy and Et cetera. Everyday listener, always entertained.

In Maine now, keeps me connected to the home base. Offseason topic, Tom Hardy Taboo, FX. Surprised you guys haven't talked about this one. Highly recommended. Heard season two is coming. Have you watched? And he goes on and on and on.

First of all, five stars. Thank you, J.L. very much. I've not heard of Tom Hardy Taboo. Is that Tom Hardy, the actor? Yes, I believe so. I mean, I haven't heard of it either, but I love almost everything Tom Hardy does. Oh, my God. So I think I'm going to check it out.

Yeah. So it's not called Tom Hardy Taboo then. I just looked it up. It's called Taboo and Tom Hardy Starry. stars in it. I've not heard of it. I have not heard of it. I'm looking at the rest of the cast. Yeah, some familiar names in it. It looks like season one, eight episodes. Executive

producer Ridley Scott. Hello. Yeah, I think I'll check it out. Yeah, that's a good one. I'm now through two seasons of Fargo, the second season with Kurt. And Ted Dantz and Ted Dantz and is great. Jesse Plymins, you know, from Breaking Bad, obviously, Todd and Breaking Bad. It's good. Now, let me just say, you've seen, you're caught up, right?

You've seen all five or you've seen four of the seasons? I have not seen season five. I watched a couple of episodes. Then I got sidetracked, so I'd have to go back and watch it from the beginning again. Season two is really good, but I will just mention this. I thought the finale was really average because the next last episode, that would be the pent ultimate episode, was great.

But the last episode I didn't love, but I liked the season, she was great in it. I still think of the two seasons Martin Freeman and Billy Bob Thornton just are incredible. I mean, it's one of the best roles for Billy Bob Thornton ever. I looked at season three and season four. It's season four that Chris Rock is in,

and a lot of Fargo fans love season four with Chris Rock. You can count me in on that as well. And season four ties into... Let me see. I'm trying to think what season three is about. Is that about the Kansas City Wars or is that? No, that's season two. That's season two.

Season two. Yeah. Okay. Well, season four will tie into season two. Oh, okay. In a very unique way. Should I watch season four since I just finished season two? And then go back to three?

No, no, no, no, no. Just watch them, let them stand alone as they are. All right. Don't be greedy. I'll try not to be. This from Church 76, Kevin and Tom over the years have been. become like family. They gave us five stars. He gave us five stars as well. Or she. I will try to keep this short due to your request. But given the amount of times I've heard rate and review us,

by the way, don't forget to rate and review us on Apple and Spotify, five stars and a quick one to two sentence review is perfect. Subscribe and follow the podcast as well. Anyway, Church 76 writes, I'd appreciate it since you ask us to rate us and review us all the time if you could take the 25 seconds to read. Been listening to Kevin since he would get into heated arguments with Gary on Rigo's show. That would be Gary Braun. Kevin, I can't imagine having to keep the energy going day in and day out year after year. You are special.

Thank you. And he says thank you. Tom, you managed to educate me and make me smile on a weekly basis. Thank you. And then he writes, am I the only one that thinks that Ian sounds like John Malkovich? I met Ian for the first time at the radio event that we did a few weeks ago, a week and a half ago. I don't think he sounds like John Malkovich. I don't know that he sounds like anybody other than I am.

I've tried to pluck out how he sounds. Yeah, I don't blame you. This from Andy in Annapolis, who also gave us five stars. Kevin needs to listen to Tommy more. Been listening for a long time. Tommy used to make me mad with his outlandish comments. However, over time, I've come to realize, Leverro is almost always right.

Leverro is right about the team botching the hiring of Dan Quinn. Love the hire, but let's face it, Quinn was their third choice, and Peter's body language is telling me Quinn wasn't his choice. Andy in Annapolis, Andy, I think I know you. for some reason. I think we've had this conversation via email already. But thank you for all of the ratings and reviews, and it really does help. We were like a top 15, top 10ish podcast in the

football category all of last week through this weekend. And that's a big plus for us. So we appreciate it. And you know what all the kids say, we couldn't do it without you. We couldn't do it without you. That's true. You're next. God love you. So what did you think of the Super Bowl? I thought it was okay.

It wasn't a great game. You know, a lot of mistakes. Not much. I mean, except for the inevitable, Patrick Mahomes, eight for eight, overtime drive. I thought it was an okay game. Did you watch the game?

Yeah. And you just thought it was okay. It was okay. The score by itself does not dictate a great game. No, but an overtime game with about an hour and a half straight of drama makes it a very memorable game at the very least. Okay, yeah, yeah. The overtime, the whole overtime scenario and how it played. out was very entertaining. And the missed extra point turned out to make it very entertaining.

But I wasn't particularly overwhelmed with it. Like the Kansas City Buffalo AFC title game a few years ago, remember that game? You're talking about the, that was actually a divisional round playoff game. Whatever it was. That's one of the all-time great NFL postseason games, no doubt. Well, that's, and we've had better Super Bowls than this one. I was entertained by it, but I wasn't captivated by it. I understand those that would say it was, you know, not the cleanest game, certainly in the first half, but it certainly will go down for me as one of the most memorable Super Bowls of all time,

because there just was so much to it, not to mention just what you said, you know, the performance towards the end. of Patrick Mahomes. I actually, a friend of mine texted me the following. Is LeBron? Who's closer? LeBron to Michael Jordan or Mahomes to Tom Brady. I think Mahomes to Tom Brady.

So do I. Because personally, I don't think LeBron's that close to Michael Jordan. I don't. And I know, I recognize. recognize LeBron's greatness, and I don't want to get into this conversation with all of you. LeBron's great. He's all-time great, but he's not the killer, and it was never the killer that Jordan was. I don't think he's the player that Jordan was. I think Mahomes, you and I talked about this, and we've talked about it, or we certainly talked about it heading into the Baltimore game, and then after the Baltimore game,

I think he's now, I think it's just, it's certainly not premature, it's certainly not exaggeration, it's certainly not nuts if your take is that Mahomes is the greatest quarterback you've ever watched. No, I mean, I agree with you. I think he is the greatest quarterback I've ever watched. Now, again, I recognize there's all kinds of caveats that go into that, not the least of which is the game is much more geared towards a quarterback success now than it ever has been. And that Roger Stalback could have been Patrick Mahomes in 2000, 23 or 24, you know, given the same openness of the game and protections for quarterbacks.

But just, you know, we can't, there's no way to equate that. There's no way, there's no formula to take into the difference in style and the difference in rules. Just going by what I see, Patrick Mahomes plays it like nobody I've ever seen. Cooley was on this show with me yesterday. Those of you that missed it, it was a lot of fun breaking down the Super Bowl with him. There was a lot of really good conversation in that. I, um, he, he just, he said something that actually my son, Corbyn said to me when Mahomes took over in the first sort of have to have it drive, which was, you know, they were down 16, 13, and, you know,

you get into the fourth quarter and he drove him down the field, they kicked a field goal to tie. Then, you know, two, five, and, towards the end of regulation, minute 53 left, got to drive him down to kick a field goal. to tie. And then, of course, overtime, you know, the touchdown to win. And my son just said to me, goes, is there even a doubt what's about to happen? And I said, no, there's no doubt. He's absolutely taking them down the field, and they're going to, you know, they're going to score, and they're going to either win this game.

You know who agreed with you? You. The player's on the 49ers bench. Yeah. They showed their faces at that drive was going on, and they were all beaten. At least the ones I saw, they were beaten. So here's my question to you. Because typically, when we get into these kinds of conversations about players of today,

usually you, but sometimes me, will say, did you see Unitas? Did you see Elway and Marino? And I'm wondering, I totally agreed. Like, I didn't think there was any chance other than the outcome that happened each time. He was never, you were never going to lose the game with the ball, with the Chiefs having the ball and Mahomes being on the field and the close game at the end. What other quarterback in all of our years of watching the NFL is close. to feel to the way maybe a lot of people, and I felt on Sunday, and maybe you felt the same way.

There's one... You know, I mean, Montana. Elway. I mean, Elway, you know, but his teams got pummeled in three Super Bowl. I know, but they weren't close games. I know. I know. Stawback. Stabler. Starback, Elway, yeah, those guys.

Actually, I'd put Aaron Rogers in that category. Whenever Green Bay was in a big game and they needed it, it seemed like it always happened. And I know that someone will give me examples of it not happening. But, I mean, don't we say Brady too? Like, didn't we feel that way if New England had the ball and needed something? Yeah, why is Brady's status? slipping seemingly diminished

yeah because because he was he wasn't flashy is that why he was he was very surgical it's not

it's not diminished in Maya in my mind but I hear what you're saying I just think it's this I think it's all about Mahomes I think it's all about the way he plays

he is very much the type of quarterback that people feel like you have to have in today's NFL, not just the ability to make every throw, but to be able to create, to be able to extend, to be able to use your legs when you have to, all of that, and that's not what Brady was, although Brady's brilliance was creating time in the pocket, which was Marino's brilliance. which was Peyton Manning's brilliance.

But I think you're right. I think it's also because, look, if we didn't know how many Super Bowls each of them had, and you said, here, watch these four playoff games from Tom Brady, watch these four from Patrick Mahomes, you would take Mahomes on the eye test. Yes. Yes, he would because his play is more dramatic than Brady.

Yeah. Kurt Warner was another one. Kurt Warner was another one I felt good about. Yeah. Part of that drama is his ability to manufacture plays on the run under such tremendous composure that he has. Brady didn't have to do that. Brady got rid of the ball quick. You know, he found his targets and he would just march. down the field. I know this Kansas City team didn't have a ton, but most of Brady's teams didn't have much.

Right. You're right. You're right. You know what? Maybe some of it had to do with the coaching. I know nobody wants to say that anymore because, you know, Belichick has stunk up the choice since Brady left, but maybe it did have something to do with the coaching. Oh, I think it definitely had something to do with the coaching.

But I think Mahomes, you know, actually, well, I mean, Belichick's more of a defensive guy, but still. Yes. But Andy Reid has done, is an offensive guy and really does touch Mahomes' performance more than Belichick did, Brady's. Yes, I know. I agree. I just, I can't remember, though, feeling like it's, you know, when they kicked the field goal, it's not that I thought it was over, but I said, I thought to myself, well, there's no chance they're not going down and getting at least a field goal to stay alive in this game. The guy from the past for me always is Elway.

Like every, there's so many games regular season in playoffs and not the Super Bowl or most of the Super Bowls he was in, where he actually, and by the way, I think he's probably, I mean, I guess Rogers from this era, but Elway from that era is more of the Mahomes comp. You know, unless you want to say a left-handed Steve Young. But Elway was just, I mean, I don't have the numbers in front of me. I'm looking for them right now. All-time comebacks, fourth quarter comebacks. But Elway has to be near the top of that list.

Here it is. Who thinks so? So here's the list right now. NFL fourth quarter comeback career leaders. It's the stats they've taken since 1950. Number one all time is Brady. Now, he played in a lot more games, considering he played until 44 years old.

Peyton Manning is two. Rothlisberger, forgot about him. He was big-time clutch. Big-time clutch. Yeah. It was three. Matt Ryan is four. I would have never thought of Matt Ryan.

Drew Breeze is five. Matt Stafford is six. Now, remember, a lot of these quarterback have played in a lot more games, you know, because they played, you know, they played 17 here recently, 16, some of these quarterbacks you'll see on the list 14. Unitas is 7th. Marino is 8th. Elway is 9th with Russell Wilson. And then it's Philip Rivers, Fran Tarkington, Vinnie Tester Verdi, Derek Carr, Brett Favre, Eli Manning, Joe Montana's 17th on the list all-time comebacks. Now, you know, some of that, too, is when you play on a truly dominant team, you don't have as many opportunities. You're not losing in the fourth quarter. That's a big part of it, too.

You know who's top 25 on this list? Close your ears, people. Close your ears. You know who. You know who's on the list. At 25. He has the greatest comeback in NFL history. Well, he's got that, and he set the record for most fourth quarter.

quarter comebacks in a season last year. Yeah, I think, I mean, when you think about some of these, it's either they played in so many games or they were on teams like Matt Stafford's way high in the list and maybe Matt Ryan to a certain degree because it's not like they played on teams that were dominant. I mean, Breeze did more. They were usually in a come-from-behind situation. Yeah. Stawback Elway, the snake comes to mind.

I mean, he was big-time clutch. Unitas is way up there, though. Wow. Speaking of you know who, there is a story that was circulating on the internet this afternoon, and it's odds from a certain offshore book that has Washington as the frontrunner for Kirk Cousins in this offseason. Washington is plus 400, Minnesota plus 425, the Raiders are plus 500, the Patriots plus 600, and then it's Atlanta, Denver, Seattle, Pittsburgh, and then the field. but Washington is the favorite.

I don't think Kirk Cousins is going to sign here. Now, it would not surprise me. Let me just mention this. It would not surprise me if people close to Kirk, like maybe close to his agent, are throwing out teams like Washington, which have a need for quarterback to get Minnesota off their ass and create, you know,

the feeling of, I mean, he is the number one quarterback in free agency right now. So it's possible that there's some stuff floating around out there that cousins would welcome a return to Washington. But here's why I just don't see it happening. Washington's going to draft a quarterback at number two. The veteran quarterback that's going to be on this roster is going to be, a Jacoby Brissette type if they go that direction, or it'll be Sam Howell. By the way, you know, Tommy, there is a chance, a chance that Sam Hal is not on this roster next year.

Because if you draft a quarterback at number two overall and you don't believe Sam Hal is your long-term answer, you'd rather have a, it's a new system. It's not like anybody's going to benefit from Hal's presence under Eric Purs. enemy system, right? So having a Jacoby Berset at $8 million, you know, as an example, as a veteran mentor, everybody talked about what a great mentor he was for, you know, every quarterback he's been with, including Sam, it's possible that the two quarterbacks on the roster next year are number two overall and a veteran. That makes sense. That scenario would make sense. If you're going to draft a quarterback, I mean, the formula has been, you know, you want to supplement him with a veteran who can come in a game and win a game or two for you, but knows how to be a good backup.

Yeah. The reason I think Cousins to D.C. is an absolute super long shot is because they're going to draft a quarter. quarterback at number two and you're not paying Kirk Cousins 40 million a year for a two-year all guaranteed. Now, the way Cousins would end up in Washington is if Adam Peters and companies say, we don't like any of these quarterbacks. We don't want to draft a quarterback at number two. Maybe we'll take, you know, a round two flyer early on Bo Nix if he's still there. But we're not taking a quarterback. We're going to go out and we're going to cousins, and we are going to use draft capital and free agent capital to actually fill all these holes and compete right away.

I just don't see them acting that way. I think that, again, they are process-oriented. They're meticulous. They are taking their time. They're thorough. If they wanted that, I mean, Dan Quinn's a good hire for that, but then they should have been interested in Belichick or Vrabil. Yes.

If they were interested in, you know, immediately contending. Not that Quinn can't coach a contender. It doesn't spit their M.O. I don't think so. Kirk Cousins. And I just saw this literally as we were sitting here talking. Justin Jefferson says, there's a story out there that says Justin Jefferson is not signing an extension until he knows Kirk is back.

So he's staying in Minnesota. There's no way, although, hey, Minnesota, we'll send you some picks, not number two overall, we'll send you some picks, and we will, for Justin Jefferson and then sign cousins. Can you imagine Justin Jefferson and Terry McLorn combined? But I think, I think you know who will be back in Minnesota. Everybody wants them back. the most important player on their team wants them back, wants them back. So anyway, there's more Super Bowl follow-up I want to get to.

I also want you to weigh in. Have you been following? I didn't ask you before the show, but have you been following this whole Virginia state legislature saying no chance to Wizards Caps to Northern Virginia? There's some stuff that's happened here this afternoon. All right, so we will get to that. We've got a lot to get to. We'll start that process right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. How about Valentine's Day at Shelly's? Would the wife or girlfriend appreciate that, a cigar bar for Valentine's Day? Maybe. Let me tell you something out there, people. If you have a wife or a girlfriend who would appreciate going to Shelly's back room on Valentine's Day, you better do everything you can to hold on to that woman. As much as I love Shelly's, and as much as it is in many ways, family-friendly,

because of the ventilation system they have there that make it very easy to deal with any cigar smoke that would be there, that would be quite a revelation. You know, like, you see, the opposite is Father's Day. Like, if they took you someplace, they would take you to Shelly's. that would be a natural. Father's Day is a big day at Shelly. That it should be. Of course.

But Valentine's Day, not so much. Not that Shelly's couldn't handle it. I've seen the women at Shelly's. You know, I mean, but it takes a special woman to say, let's go have a cigar on Valentine's Day. There are some women that like to do that, though. Look, I've seen them at Shelly's. Yeah, I know. And Shelly's is a special thing.

If you got a woman who wants to do that, the place you need to go is Shelly's. You're not going to have your heartbroken at Shelly's, okay, because they're going to get everything right. From the drinks to the food to the top 25 cigars from cigar aficionado that they have on their cigar menu, I mean, they will give you a hearts and flowers event at Shelly's back room at 1331 F Street Northwest. I tell you what, my heart would love to be at Shelley's on Valentine's Day, even if it was by myself. It might be. Yes. Shelly's backroom, 13th and F, northwest.

You can find out more at shelley's backroom.com. I think I've told you this before, that my annual joke with my wife for what I want on Father's Day is to play golf on Mother's Day. she doesn't really think that's funny anymore um anyway uh i wanted to read this um this uh email that i got from my guy seth and potomac who emails all the time and i want to see if you remember this um because i do remember i don't remember specifically what it was about but i do remember he he wrote me and he said he said um the following you said kevin you didn't go hard enough with deserved criticism of your half-brother Kyle Shanahan's Super Bowl decisions. I think he's proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's a great offensive coordinator, but as a head coach, maybe not

secure enough or cut out to be the big-picture thinker you have to be. I remember the day you had him on your show and questioned him on an in-game decision, you were right, but he was too stubborn to admit it. He doesn't have enough humility to admit it. He doesn't have enough humility to admit it, when he's wrong, and that's why he's always come up short, and you should have gone harder on him yesterday. First of all, do you remember that it was our show? It wasn't with Cooley. It was you and me.

We had Kyle on. Do you remember this or not? No, I don't. Okay. We had Kyle on the show. It's possible you weren't there. It was the only time we had Kyle on the show, because every other request to have him back the show was denied.

But it was something, I don't remember specifically what it was, but I definitely pushed back on how they had handled, I don't know, timeouts or going for two or something. And he definitely didn't appreciate it. And the one thing, and I know I've said this before, Mike and Kyle are completely different. I didn't get to know Kyle. There are people in town that got to know Kyle much better than I did.

but I think they would agree with this. Kyle was definitely tightly wound. The perception of Mike was that he was tightly wound, but he really wasn't. I mean, he is much. Mike was always willing to have a conversation with me anyway, but I know with others in town too. Still, you know, if I were to call him today,

call me right back, you know, tonight or tomorrow. And he'd stay on the phone for an hour, you know, talking football and stuff. And he'll tell you who to hire for general manager. But, you know, there was definitely this perception of Mike being super tightly wound and being, you know, kind of curmudgeonly. And he really wasn't that way. But let me just say this to Seth.

First of all, just the idea, dude, that you don't think Kyle's cut out to be a head coach. in seven seasons he's gone to four NFC championship games in two Super Bowls. Like, are you kidding me? I, there are coaches that are cut out to be offensive coordinators and not head coaches. Josh McDaniels would be an answer to that one. But it ain't Kyle, okay? I do think, and I've said this before about Kyle at times, I do think like many coaches, he's not perfect.

There are some flaws, and he made some mistakes on Sunday. There's no doubt about it, and they were costly mistakes. But no, he's not a coordinator. You don't have, in seven seasons, four trips to the NFC title game, two to the Super Bowl, and by the way, be within like a play of winning the Super Bowl twice and not be a head coach. That's silly and stupid, actually. Look, we talked about this last week.

Yeah. In a column I wrote about Kyle, and I compared him to Andy Reed in Philadelphia. You know? I mean, they were saying the same things about Andy Reed. They weren't. They couldn't win the big game. Yes.

You know? He was considered a great offensive coach who couldn't win a big game. And eventually, you know, they, they were tired of him in Philadelphia. Now, Andy Reid ain't going anywhere as long as Pat Mahomes' Maloney's quarterback. He's not retiring or going anywhere as long as Mahomes is back there. So I think Kyle was only 44.

Like I said, he's got a long way ahead of him. And he, I'm constantly, he will have a Super Bowl to call his own at some point. Yeah, I mean, it's a good, it's a really good analogy. By the way, Andy Reid, people thought about that in his first several years in KC, too, before Mahomes. Yes. You know, and also, you know, Andy Reid was thought to be a boob when it came to clock management and things like that before Mahomes showed up. Look, Kyle has done what he's done in San Francisco without an elite quarterback, without a top 10, you know, kind of a quarterback. Now, real quickly, on Seth's criticism, I think I went very.

hard on Kyle yesterday. I'm not sure what you were listening to. They, um, I, I, I remembered something after the show yesterday and I went back to, to see exactly what game it was. Early in the season, they played the Giants and he didn't use timeouts at the end of the half. And I, it was a Thursday night game and that next Friday, I'm like, Kyle sometimes just kind of sleepwalks through opportunities. Now, they crush the Giants that night, but it was pretty close in the first half. But the big mistake that he made in the game that isn't even debatable is he didn't use his timeouts at the end of the first half to gain another possession. That's just inexcusable. That is really awful. Now, it's possible that, you know, he's got a reason for it. You know,

well, Brock was over there. He was a little bit dazed or he had a bad finger and we were afraid to to put him back into the game before we checked on it at halftime. Whatever. I doubt that's true. but there could be a reason, but I think it's just that he's not very good at it and he doesn't have somebody there helping him. That is, in a 10 to 3 game, they had a chance to get the ball back with 50 plus seconds left in the first half, and he took two timeouts with him into the locker room instead and didn't get an extra possession. As far as what happened at the beginning of overtime, I think it was a big mistake. You just don't take the ball with these new overtime rules, especially when the other quarterbacks named Patrick Mahomes.

You can't give him an extra down and exactly knowing what he needs. So I think Kyle was, I think there are two parts of this. One we didn't really get to yesterday. I think that he made the mistakes. But I think it's really, it doesn't look good. on him that the players all said they had no idea what the new overtime rules were. Oh, God, no. Looks terrible. I think it looks bad too. Especially since the Chiefs players said, yeah, we practice these scenarios.

Yeah, it's not a good look. And I mentioned this this morning to Denton on radio. Can you imagine if on that first drive, they had actually scored a touchdown, like that throw to Juan Jennings, which was pressured by Jones on that third down before they kicked the field goal. And by the way, Brandon Ayukes wide open on that play. Let's just say they throw a touchdown on that play. The whole bench would have stormed the field thinking they had won the game. And it would have really been embarrassing. Yeah. Because they, look, this wasn't a couple of players. This was many players that said that they were completely confused about the overtime rules. They did not know.

And the Chiefs players said everything was laid out for them. But anyway, yeah, I think Kyle cost him. I think he cost him a lot in the game. He didn't cost them as much as the Chiefs had Patrick Mahomes and his team didn't. Because really, more than anything else, that was the decision. factor in the game. But it is one of those off seasons where if you're a 49ers fan or if you're doing sports talk radio or you're writing columns in San Francisco about the Niners, it is a big

topic, Kyle, not getting it done here. And the fact that it came with these strategic decisions that did not go his way and really weren't set out to go his way, you know, opens him up for some level of criticism. But as far as a coach, like a lot of coaches are missing a lot of areas. I would take Kyle's, you know, eight out of ten. He's basically got eight out of ten. He's a mastermind X's and O's offensive guy, play caller. You know, he's clearly a decent leader.

Players love playing for him. And you give up something else. I mean, you're not going to get everything in one head coach. You rarely do. Anyway, I did think it was interesting that the Chiefs, after winning their second straight Super Bowl, being an underdog in three straight games and overcoming that, that they are not the favorite to win the Super Bowl next year. The 49ers are. The 49ers at my bookie plus 520, the Chiefs are plus 680. I've seen it plus 500, plus 700. And then the Ravens, bills and lines after that. I actually, if somebody had asked me to guess before I saw him, I would have guessed that the Ravens would have been favored to win the Super Bowl next year.

But man, the chiefs, the key for them is Chris Jones. They've got to resign Chris Jones. He is way too important to that team and that defense that led them this year. and he was the most impressive and most disruptive player in the Super Bowl after Patrick Mahomes. By the way, speaking of odds, Washington is the third longest odds on the board to win the Super Bowl. The Patriots and Panthers are the only two teams with longer odds. And a lot of those all too early NFL power rankings, you love doing power rankings, they're all out there for 2024, and I've seen a couple of them, Washington, average is like 29 or 30.

ESPN had him at 31. But you know... But you know what? What? Come the end of training camp next year, you'll have people call your show saying 12 wins. Well,

there's... 12 wins, Tommy, was never possible until this coming year. So now 12 is actually a possibility. I'm not saying for this year. But, you know, there shouldn't be a lot of preseason respect. Washington was the worst team in the league you could argue at the end of last this past season. I know that. And nationally, there never is. Yeah. And they're going to draft

a quarterback at number two overall. And what happened with C.J. Stroud last year is the exception to the rule, which is it takes a little bit of time. They do have. But it's in their head. It'll be in their head. I'm telling you. What do you mean? You'll have people fall. over themselves next year to basically say that, you know, they're going to win 10, 11 games. They're going to be the Houston Texans of 2024. That's true. That last part is 100% true. There will be a lot of people who will say after they draft, let's just say Drake May or Jaden Daniels, with all of the free agent capital that they, you know, all the salary cap room they have. And let's just say they go out and sign two big free agents and another four or five to fill holes and they draft,

you know, six, seven players and it's, you know, everybody perceives it to be a good draft. You never know. There will be a lot of people that will say Washington, and by the way, it won't just be locally. There will be people who will say, look out for Washington here. They've got, you know, they got a better coaching situation. they added a lot of pieces and look out if Jaden Daniels has a C.J. Stroud kind of a year. But there will be a lot of Houston C.J. Stroud comparisons. No doubt. That's true. Yes. You mentioned my column that I wrote about earlier. You said Patrick Mahomes.

Yes. The lead is about Patrick Mahomes, but the column itself is about how Washington needs to treat this draft pick with a sense of urgency with a look to the past. And picking number two in the past has not worked for them. So they need to do everything they can, particularly if they think that Caleb Williams is the guy, do everything they can to get that number one pick. Well, perfect segue into what I was going to mention next.

Obviously, as you know, I kind of read your, I didn't read your column. Usually I do. I just didn't have time to read it, but I looked at it right before we started. And I saw that you used the Ernie O'Corsi line that you've used maybe 150 times since I've known you, which is when he told you that, you know, when a team gets on the bus and heads to the game, the quarterback's got to be, you know, they got to feel like they got a chance to win because of the quarterback. But on Sunday in one of those long pregame shows on the NFL Network, or I think it was, yeah, because it was Ian Rappaport, Ian Rappaport and Mike Garifolo from NFL Network engaged in a conversation about the number one overall draft and then number two, Washington. And Ian Rappaport reported that the Bears are going to want an historic hall, you know, something historically in terms of,

compensation back for anybody to move up to number one. Meantime, Garifolo said, Washington is expected to have interest in moving up to number one. And so we did that today on the radio show and we took calls like, would you? First of all, I think the thing you have to know before you answer that question is what is the compensation to move? up. Well, no, the first thing you need to have confidence in is this is the guy. Daniels and Drake May are not anywhere near Caleb Williams. He's got a chance to be the next, I don't even want to say Mahomes anymore. I don't know if anybody will ever be Mahomes. He's got a chance to be Josh Allen. He's got a chance to be, you know, combination of Allen and Burrow and, you know,

any of the other great quarterbacks in the league that you want to put up there that aren't named Mahomes. And we've got a size of difference on our board between Caleb Williams and then Jaden Daniels and Drake May. So that's number one. That's the most important thing. That's the most important thing. And then it's, what will it cost you? You know, there's just been, it's really, this is the thing, and I say it all the time,

this is the thing we always get wrong, you know, in terms of figuring out draft compensation, you know, and moves up, et cetera. I went back to the 2017 NFL draft because it's the last draft in which somebody moved up in the top five just one spot for a quarterback. And it was when San Francisco traded, when Chicago traded up one spot to draft Mitchell Tribusky at number two overall. San Francisco had number two. By the way, it would have been Washington with number two had they taken it and traded Kirk Cousins. didn't. But what the Bears gave up to move up from three to two, this isn't two to one, and it's three to two for Mitch Trubisky. It's not two to one for Caleb Williams. But what they

gave up was they gave up their number three overall. They gave up a third and a fourth in that draft and a third rounder the next year. Trust me, the compensation is going to be much greater than that, even for one spot two to one for Caleb Williams, if you assume that other teams will feel the same way you do, which is, oh my God, this guy's so much better than everybody else. I think it'll take, you know, the swap of two to one, one to two, next year's one, this year's two, minimum, minimum. It's not going to be a Jimmy Johnson draft trade chart move because that chart says that basically you just have to give up a second rounder to move up one spot from two to one. That's not happening, I don't think. I would definitely consider it if I

loved Caleb Williams, if I thought he was going to be the next big thing and I had him way ahead of Daniels in May, I wouldn't think twice. Yes, yes, I wouldn't think twice either. If that's the guy, you've got to think what will it cost you if you don't trade for him, if you don't get him. You know, I mean, Washington has been in this situation before with the number two pick in the draft. And, you know, if they had had the number one, for some reason those years, could have dramatically changed their franchise. One was the Robert Griffin, you know, and the Colts picked Andrew Luck. Now, Andrew Luck's career was cut short. But we would have taken it.

Because of injury. But he threw 171 touchdown passes, including 39, his last year in the league. He was great. Okay? Yeah. Okay. The last time was when they picked Chase Young because Joe Burrow was number one. Yep.

And Ron has said, if he had an opportunity to take Burrow, he would have taken Burrough. Oh, yeah. And we've seen Burrow is sometimes Mahomes-like in his play. So, I mean, the past two times they've had the number two pick, there's been a big difference between number two and number one. Yes. So for me, I mean, if Caleb Williams is the guy that this coaching staff and this general manager wants, that you've got to make that move.

You're giving them the benefit of the doubt, it sounds like. Yes, you've got to have a willing participant, meaning the bears have to be willing to trade. Yeah. Yes. And see, that's the thing, is that if you believe Caleb Williams is all of that, then the bears will probably believe he's all of that, and it would take, it would probably result in the bears aren't going to trade the pick,

and if they are going to trade it, they're trading it for an outrageous price. But I'm with you that I, But again, the parameters for me would be, it's like not even close. Adam Peters, you know, Dan Quinn, Cliff Kingsbury, they're all with the scouts. And it's like everybody agrees, this guy's the next coming. This is it. This is our chance. And Chicago is willing to listen to offers.

And Jaden Daniels, nice player, but we don't have them anywhere near Caleb Williams. Drake May, nice play. I wouldn't have anywhere near. But if those guys are as close to Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels in particular, as I think they might be, then I would not make that move. Well, again, I would leave it up to the brain trust that they've assembled. And they've assembled quite a brain trust, haven't they? Yes, that's why I said.

You're in Kevin benefit of the doubt mode. You're just going to trust that they're... Well, at this point, we're not in territory. where I could speak any other way. I can't speak to how good the offensive line coach is going to be or the defensive backs coach or the quarterback's coach. I can't speak to that. You know, I forget if I said this to you last week or not.

The worst thing for us would be if like in two weeks or right when the league calendar begins, they make a big trade with Chicago and they're at number one. Because then all of the speculation and all of the conversations we're going to have between now and draft night, they're over. We're taking Caleb Williams.

That's it. Yeah. Yeah, I am totally going to trust in the people that are going to have the expertise and, by the way, a lot more information than we'll have. But I just have, and I had this feeling for a while now. I just have a weird feeling

that Jaden Daniels may end up being the number one quarterback taken. And I think there's still a lot between now and draft night where things could change because they haven't had their meetings. You know, you get the combine

in a week and a half. All of the quarterbacks are going to be at the combine. That's going to be an interesting combine. That to me, that to me, has been a snoozer event for years, but it won't be this year. It won't be this year on quarterback day. That's for sure. I want everybody to know that Window Nation right now is offering their best deal of the year.

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That's M-A-G-D-E-N motors.com. I did want to mention Tommy before we get to this story about Ted's Wizards and Caps. Two things. Number one, we did put a poll out today on 980 during the show. Would you make the historic trade to move up to number one overall in draft Caleb Williams? There were four potential answers. Hell yes, yes, no, and hell no. Hell knows the leader by a lot.

Really? 88.3% are no or hell no. I don't, I mean, there is definitely this mindset with what I believe is at least half the fans, that they don't want to take risks. They don't want to trade valuable capital for what turns out to be typically a one-and-three shot, you know, at the top of the draft when it comes to quarterbacks. I understand that to a certain degree. but if you don't take the swing at the one and three chance and you know until you land on the one out of the three

you're forever going to be in that area of just hoping you know for a decent season here or there you know a decent run here or there you want sustained 10 years success you got to figure out that position out I know there are other ways to get it I understand that but it's not trying to hit or thread the needle with Brock Purdy in the seventh round or Sam Howell in the fifth round. It just isn't. Those are massive. Those aren't one and threes. Those are one and three hundred and thirty threes.

One other quick thing before we get to this. The Wizards, there's a really nice story on the Athletic, by the way, about how the Wizards actually went to Kyle Kuzma. They had a trade lined up for Kyle Kuzma to go to Dallas. And because they like him so much, which they do, he wants to stay here. He said, I want to be here with this group and I want to try to build something, which I thought was pretty interesting and pretty unique, actually,

with a player that would have brought back some good value. But you can't build something with Jordan Poole. Have you been following this guy? Like, last week he had a game in which he only shot the ball five times and he missed all five shots. Last night, he did put it up 12 times. He was one for 12 for three points in a close game throughout. I can't remember a guy that had this much ability to be a scorer, seemingly throw it away the way he is. He looks completely disinterested.

That's your wizard's You think this is all just to get rid of him, to get him out of here? You think he's engineering his exit? Well, he's going to be gone at the end of this year, but he wasn't gone by the trade deadline. No, he wasn't. I mean, he is shooting in this month of February from the floor. He is shooting 26.4%.

And from behind the arc, 19.5%. The guy, look, I was totally. wrong about this. I actually thought, what are you doing bringing in Jordan Poole, signing Kyle Kuzma to a long-term deal? You might win 25 to 30 games. You want to win 15 to 20. Jordan Poole might average 28 a game this year. Nah, nah. You got to be interested to average 28 a game. I thought he would be a massive heist that he'd just be pulling up from 25, one on three fast break.

I mean, he hasn't had more than in the last, in four out of the last five games, he hasn't shot more than 12 times in a game. All right, tell us about what's going on with Ted's move of the Wizards and Caps to Virginia. Well, over the weekend, Ted's plan to have the state finance a $2 billion arena complex for in Potomac Yards took a big blow when probably the most powerful person in the legislature. Louise Lucas, I believe her name is. She's the Senate Finance and Appropriations Chairwoman.

She said, she called it Glen Dome, obviously an attack on Glenn Yonkin, the governor of Virginia. She said it was a dead issue as far as she was concerned. It's a dead project that wasn't going anywhere. And I could tell you what, politicians, they love the smell of a rich guy's dead project. You're going to see more people who were thinking, yeah, this sounds like a guy. great idea. You know, they're going to start thinking, oh, I don't know if I want to be associated with this. Now, it passed the state, the house today, but it still has a long way to go. And there's no, there's no pass that I see past Louise Lucasett as the chairwoman

of the finance and appropriations committee. So right now, Ted is on the ropes. Meanwhile, back in the district, you have Muriel Bowser threatening the suit head and hold him to a lease that she thinks will keep the cats and wizards in town. Now that's something that's debatable, but that's something that might wind up being debated in court.

So this is... I told you that Virginia is a very politically volatile state. You know, these things do not happen in Virginia for a reason. You know, it's difficult. cult to get a consensus when you have a governor that only serves four years.

You know, and done. Yeah. I mean, you know, you're like almost a lame duck the first day you're in office. So I just think that, I just think now the odds are against this happening for Ted. Before I thought it was maybe 60, 40, you know, 40% that it wouldn't happen, 60% that it would. Now I would switch those odds. I had the guy from Channel 9, Eric Flack, on radio today. Have you followed him covering this story?

He was actually really good. I've had him on the show before. I think it was about some of the Snyder investigations, if my memory serves me correctly. It could have been about this, too. He was really good. He kind of described it as you just described it. And I said, you know, basically he said,

what happened was they basically spiked the ball before they got into the end zone. And there certainly seemed to be a lot of that, you know, giddiness, as we talked about, on the day of the actual press conference. And I don't know, it certainly sounds, Ted did a bunch of interviews last week on television. Oh, God, yeah. I know. Absolutely.

What do you think the motivation? I asked Eric what the motivation for that was. He didn't really have an answer. He said he wondered what it was. What do you think it was? I think he's feeling the pressure. I think he's stealing the heat from the opposition, both in the district, and in Northern Virginia with the residents and the groups that have organized to protest this thing.

You know what was funny. At one point, he told somebody that, you know, he's kind of surprised by all the criticism. and hurt a little bit because he's not like other people. He listens. I didn't. You know, I tell you what, if he's that sensitive, he must be an emotional wreck from owning the Wizards for 14 years. Yeah.

I have asked for him. There's apparently some gatekeeper that I'm supposed to have a conversation with at some point. I know it's coming. You know, we've asked for him many times in the people. past. I think, you know, what Eric actually said to me today was that Ted wanted to get his story out because he was feeling like he was being criticized for leaving D.C. And I'll just say what I have felt since that press conference and since you've seen kind of the value of the deal that is proposed. I mean, it's basically when you take into consideration, you know,

bond and bond length, et cetera. It's like, you know, it's a four to one deal over what D.C. offered. And Ted wants to do a lot more with the space that Potomac Yard would offer. And he wants to take monumental public and the valuation on that IPO would be much higher with the deal from Northern Virginia. I don't know that if I had all the information he had, that I would come. come to the same, that I would come to a different conclusion. I think the part that he missed on was that there was no compassion in those first few days. And maybe it's because he was kind of pissed. Maybe it's like, you know, they thought I was bluffing. They ignored me in the city. They

haven't done the right thing. You know, we've been asking for, you know, this kind of money for a while and they come in at the 11th hour with even less. I've had to pay for my own security. You know, maybe he was just pissed off and he's like, he couldn't wait to basically throw it back in their face and say, guess what? I'm gone now. But that... You know, but in his tour, in his tour last week, he said it wasn't about the crime in D.C. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Well, it's not just about the time. It's not just about the crime. It's about what he wanted to do with Capital One Arena and what he wanted the city to pay for. That's the big part of it.

I know. I know. I get that. Look, there's a lot of holes in the plan, period. I don't know if you know. With their parking plan, includes people parking at National Airport. Yeah, Reagan National. Yeah.

Well, remember, I told you the highest percentage of his fans, both for the Wizards and Caps, live in Virginia. I know. All right. I know. Anything else? So right now, the percent chance that they move to Northern Virginia for you is what? 40%. I'll say it's slightly better than 50-50. I'll say it's 60%. But here's my question to you.

If it completely falls through, what does he do? Does then Mayor Bowser have him by the you-know-what? I think so. Oh, how the turntables turned. Whatever. All right. That's a Michael Scott line, by the way. You didn't pick up. I know.

All right. Anything else? I got nothing else for you today, boss. All right. Good job. Thanks for your patience because we didn't get started until late because Tommy, I asked Tommy to do it later today because I had something to do. And he is always accommodating.

Do you have any karaoke tonight? No, no, that's tomorrow night. Okay. And I'm hoping that Sammy Panama from Elwatusi Records shows up this week. Me too. It'd be a great story to hear the contract that he offers you on tomorrow night on the show on Thursday. All right, back tomorrow, everybody. Michael's got paper company to see Mr. David Wallace, I believe we're expected.

Well, well, well. how the turntables