The Kevin Sheehan Show - Turner + Top 10 Commanders

Episode Date: January 11, 2023

Kevin opened with his thoughts on yesterday's Scott Turner firing. Doc Walker jumped on to talk Turner, Rivera, and a lot more on the Commanders. Kevin finished the show with his list of the "Top 10 Commanders" for 2022.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. And how did you think Scott Turner did as offensive coordinator this year? I think Scott did his job, did the things that he tried to do. And, you know, we're going to self-evaluate and go through that process.

That was Ron Rivera as part of that joint press conference with Ron Rivera and general manager, Martin Mayhew, yesterday. A few minutes after that question. and answer, Scott Turner was fired by Ron Rivera. Tommy and I did not know that when we were recording the podcast. Of course, we expected it. It was not a surprise that Scott Turner was fired, but we did not have on the podcast yesterday the discussion of Scott Turner being fired. So I will get to that today here in the opening segment. On the show today, Doc Walker will be with me. We'll get a lot of different. thoughts from Doc on the Scott Turner situation, the Ron Rivera situation, the quarterback situation. And then in the final segment of the show today, I'm going to count down the top 10 Washington Commander players for the 2022 season. My list, my top 10 list of the 10 best players from the 2022 season. The show today is presented by My Bookie. Go to My Bookie. Go to My Bookie. at g use my promo code

Kevin DC and they'll match your first deposit dollar for dollar all the way up to a thousand bucks very few places giving away that kind of money guys I would take advantage of it even if I already have a shop use my bookie as a comparison

spot certainly for the free money that they're going to give you but there will be a lot of shifting point spreads and totals here in these playoff games I'm already seeing it right now so you want to get the best number and the best price. MyBooky is a great alternative for you or a great first option for you.

MyBooky.ag promo code Kevin D.C. By the way, a couple of interesting line movements here. The first game of the weekend on Saturday afternoon 430 Eastern, Seattle at San Francisco, the weather, if you're not following it out west, just torrential rains. more of that expected in the Bay Area and in, you know, south of the Bay Area in Santa Clara for the game on Saturday. Rain, if not heavy rain in the forecast. The total keeps coming down. It's at 42. It opened at 43 and a half, 44. San Francisco was at 1.10, 10, 10 and a half. They're down to 9.5. I don't know much about the grass field at Santa Clara, the kind of turf, the kind of drainage

system they have. I'm trying to think, have we seen a terrible field condition situation in San Francisco since they moved to Santa Clara? I don't know, but the weather is supposed to be horrible and it'll be horrible all week leading up to that game. We've also seen a big move in the Chargers Jags game. That line came down to one. Now the Chargers are two and a half point favorites in that game. And then for the Monday night game, Dallas Tampa, that line is down to two and a half now, down from three. Still most of the action on Tampa. And I would expect that Dallas will probably be a smell test pick for me. I'm looking at, I don't love the board this weekend in general.

I thought a lot more would be on Minnesota, but I think people recognize. that Minnesota plays these outrageously close games and that the Giants, you know, rolled up 450 yards of offense a few weeks ago against the Vikings. You know, that's kind of a chic upset pick, the Giants over the Vikings. But the public is kind of split on that game right now. The public loves Buffalo to absolutely annihilate Miami. So the dolphins might end up being a play. And they love Cincinnati right now because we're still unsure about the quarterback situation for Baltimore and Miami, for that matter. I think, by the way, I think the public's going to be all over San Francisco as well.

So Seattle might be a play. But we'll wait until Friday for smell test picks on what was or has been. We still have a lot of, we have 13 games left, six this weekend, four next weekend, to the weekend after that, and then the Super Bowl. But up 14 units for the year, I'd have to lose 13 games, and I'd still be a game above 500. So I've done well actually in the playoffs a lot. in recent years. But I don't love the board this weekend. That is for sure. The biggest move, actually, Buffalo, Miami, the total continues to go up in that game from like 44 to 46.5.

I see some 47s. My bookie's at 46 and a half right now. The weather in Buffalo on Sunday is supposed to be beautiful for that game. So no weather issues in Buffalo, none in Cincinnati. And And really the only weather situation will be the first game of the weekend, and that is the rain, the torrential rains that California has been getting in Northern California in particular is expected to last right through the weekend. All right. Wow, look at this. Tua, Tungavailoa, out.

I think we knew that was coming, but officially he is out for the game on Sunday in Buffalo. Skyler Thompson's going to start again. I mean, I would have much preferred to have seen Miami lose against the Jets and have Mike Tomlin, who's done a phenomenal job in Pittsburgh. Much rather see that badass Steelers team go into Buffalo. They wouldn't have won either, I don't think. Although they did win their last year in the regular season, right? That would have been much more entertaining to see Tomlin and the Steelers and Kenny Pickett

is a rookie in a playoff game than seeing Skyler Thompson and the Dolphins. I mean, they've got no shot, right? I don't think they do. I mean, they only scored nine points against a really good defensive team in the Jets last week. They scored 11, actually. They had the safety on the final play. But anyway, that's breaking news. And look at this.

There's more breaking news as I'm recording this podcast and doing this like it's a live radio show. Bill's safety, Damar Hamlin, discharged from a Buffalo hospital. Nine days, two hospitals. he's going home healthy after suffering cardiac arrest a week ago Monday night. This is an amazing story. What an incredible result from where we were a week ago. Just incredible. Really so happy, obviously, for him and his family,

but just think about the Bill's family and the Bill's fan base and how incredible this news is. and now from a football standpoint, the lift it gives this team as it goes into the postseason. By the way, knowing that if they make it to the AFC championship game and they're playing Kansas City, it'll be on a neutral field. But, you know, I'm turning the conversation to football. It's just a miracle recovery from where he was.

And it certainly appears as if that commotion cordis, which is like a one in ten million dollars, one in 10 million shot of happening, may be at the top of the list of reasons because they did announce that there was no underlying cardiac disease, no underlying conditions. So I was reading a lot about this last night that a lot of the doctors believe that it was this,

you know, one in a several million shot of being hit in a spot when your heartbeat is at a certain point, and putting you into cardiac arrest, it's happened a lot with baseball players, young baseball players, young lacrosse players, with the weight of the ball. I say it's happened a lot. It doesn't happen a lot at all.

It happens like 30 times a year worldwide, something like that. But it was, you know, that's good news too. I mean, he not only survives this thing, it is going to be okay, but there's no underlying medical condition that they believe led to this. Incredible. Anyway, let's get to Scott Turner.

Let's get to the firing of Scott Turner. I think what I'm going to say, most of you won't be in total agreement with me. It might be a little bit unpopular with some of you. So be it. I did want to start with this, though. I'm okay with them trying to do better than Scott Turner. I'm totally okay with that. Yes, I've been more of a defender of Scott Turner during his three years as the OC than I have

in a criticizer. I've been both, but I've been more of a defender, but I'm not standing on a table stomping my feet saying they're letting the next Kyle Shanahan or Sean McVey out of the building. What are you doing? I'm not doing that. I'm fine with them trying to do better than Scott Turner. I'm a little bit skeptical as to what they have lined up because if they're trying to do a lot better than Scott Turner with like the next hot OC that's a quarterback's coach somewhere right now, Washington's not appealing, and they're not appealing because of the ownership situation and because of Ron Rivera's status as the head coach. If Ron Rivera hires you, you've got to understand that there's a chance a year from now,

they're going to blow out the whole staff. They might blow out the whole staff in March or April. So I am kind of skeptical with respect to what they can attract. You know, I've seen a lot of people mentioning Mike Shula's name. Mike Shula was with Ron in Carolina as the O.C. He's a senior offensive assistant in Buffalo right now. Speaking of Buffalo. But I'm a little bit skeptical as to what they have right now.

I would also tell you, I do believe that this was a scapegoat firing. I think if they had won one more game and they were getting ready for a playoff game this weekend, there is no chance that Scott Turner would have been fired. I shouldn't say no chance because I do think that there was a disconnect, you know, between Rivera and Scott Turner based on where they were before the season and where they ended up. But he gave him a contract extension a year ago. I mean, Scott Turner signed a multi-year contract extension through the season of 2024,

2025, I believe. So you weren't going to fire a guy that you just extended if you got to the post-season. Because if they had made the postseason, they finished, you know, let's just say they had finished 9, 7, and 1, that they hadn't shit the bet against Cleveland or that they got one of the two giant games. And even if they lost in the first round, it would have been viewed certainly internally as a major step forward season. And by the way, there would have been discussion about how, wow, given the quarterback situation, second straight year, not the guy they planned on, what a great job Scott Turner did. So I do think that there's some scapegoat.

there in the firing of Scott Turner. But while I am okay with them trying to do better than Scott Turner, and I'm not standing on a table screaming, they're letting the next Kyle Shanahan go or the next Sean McVay go, I don't think that the problems offensively for the last three years have been exclusively Scott Turner problems. I don't. He's not number one.

on my list of why they have struggled offensively for three seasons. Look, there have been some games along the way where I think Scott Turner's done a good job, and I've pointed that out. There have been games in which I didn't feel like he had a good feel for the game itself, recently against the Giants at home on Sunday night. Second and 18, Kvon Tibado is already dominating the game, and you're going to drop your quarterback back to his own goal line, a guy that can barely see over the line of scrimmage,

and you've got past protection issues, didn't love that, didn't love the 12 carries for a guy averaging 7.4 yards per carry, but loved what he did with Taylor Heineke and his first start against Tampa Bay, where they rolled up 370 yards of offense and 23 points against a team that they were getting no complimentary football from. Remember Tampa in that game, 500 plus yards of offense, and Chris Godwin dropped five balls in that game. I mean, there have been games here and there where I think, you know, he's done really well, and then games in which he hasn't really felt it.

But eight quarterbacks in three seasons is number one on the list of why they haven't been very good on offense or very consistent on offense for three seasons. Eight quarterbacks in three seasons. Come on, man. How could you possibly list Scott Turner is the number one reason when not only did he start have to start eight different quarterbacks, all right? In order. Haskins, Kyle Allen, Alex Smith, Taylor Heineke, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Garrett Gilbert, Carson Wentz, Sam Howell, eight different starting quarterbacks, none of whom were any good. How could you possibly have Scott Turner as number one on the list in a quarterback league when you've had eight subpar starting quarterbacks? Maybe Sam Howe will be different.

But really, to date, eight subpar starting quarterbacks in three seasons. That's number one on the list. If you want to put Scott Turner number two, I'm not going to argue with you that much. But there have been other reasons that the offense hasn't been very productive and significant reasons. Terrible offensive line this year. Musical chairs everywhere in addition to being a bad offensive line to begin with. Last year, they had musical chairs at center, even though the offensive line with, Flowers and Sheriff was a better offense of line, much better.

This year you had a guy that turned out to be one of your best players, Brian Robinson, Jr., missed the first four-plus games, really five games if you count the Tennessee game. I mean, that was his first game back. He wasn't really ready at that point. They had their second best receiver, Jehan Dodson, miss a third of the season. I mean, there are a lot of other reasons that you weren't very good offensively. in addition to Scott Turner. You want to say Scott Turner was part of the problem, fine.

If you say he was the only part of the problem, I just don't agree with that. My guy, Polly, who I love. Paulie, I love you. I think you've got a super sharp opinion, and I love the conversations we've had over the years. You DM'd me last night and said with a competent, a competent offensive coordinator,

this team would have won two to three more games. I just totally disagree with that. If you had Kyle Shanahan, if you had a great offensive coordinator, Shanahan, McVe, etc., you would have won another game or two. I'll concede that. They would have figured out how to take this chicken shit and turn it into chicken salad. But not just a competent OC. I mean, to discuss Scott Turner is totally incompetent to me is inaccurate.

Or let me put it this way. It's unfair. because I don't know how you could come to that conclusion with what he's had to deal with. You know, I was looking, I was reading this morning the Jeremy Fowler, Dan Gratziano weekly column, where they answer a bunch of questions and then they open up their note bag and they've got, you know, news and notes items. And Jeremy Fowler, who was super plugged in, said this about the Scott Turner. firing. He said, he said, Turner will have another job in short order. He's a well-respected coach. I've heard the same thing that he is well-respected, that people actually think he's pretty

good. Ben Standing wrote a column at one point this season where he went out and talked to general managers and GMs all talked about the fact that, you know, or at least one or two did, that Turner's done a really good job and is very creative. And I've heard, by the way, some of the pushback. He's not creative enough. Actually, I think the problem's been the opposite of that. I think sometimes he's been too creative when he didn't need to be. I think they had very creative. I think they had a lot of creativity in their run game specifically.

But you're not going to get me to say that Scott Turner was a terrible offensive coordinator. You're also not going to get me to say that Scott Turner was my boy, and I'm really crushed by this. I'm not. I'm not going to say that because I never felt that. But I don't feel, and I don't agree with those of you that are convinced that they had a terrible offensive coordinator that was incompetent that cost them the playoffs this year. I don't agree with that at all. By the way, here's another thing I saw. J.P. Finley tweeted this out.

Where is it? Here it is. This is a PFF thing. And again, I'm not a worshipper of PFF. I'm not a disciple of PFF. I understand what they do and there's some guys like Nick Ackridge who we've had on the podcast

I like Nick a lot and the commanders Washington is his favorite team JP and Nick has told us some of this before they ranked 38 starting quarterbacks I guess you had to have a certain number of games that you started to be ranked for the season by PFF 38 quarterbacks this year regular season ranked Carson Wentz was 33rd

Taylor Heineckee was 37th There are 32 NFL teams and they didn't have one of their two quarterbacks ranked in the top 32 in the league. Now, you may say like the eye test, you know, doesn't really back up that kind of ranking for Taylor Heineke in particular. And I understand some of that. I mean, he made some magic at the end of these games. You know, the end of the Green Bay game, the end of the indie game, the end of the giant game, you know, the game that they tied in the Meadowlands. only Zach Wilson was a lower-ranked PFF quarterback of the 38 that they ranked in the NFL than Taylor Heineke. He was number one on the list of turnover-worthy throws.

Nobody had anywhere near the number of turnover-worthy throws that Taylor Heineke had. And we know, you know, the Tariko-Collinsworth Pixie Dust line that they repeated multiple times during that Sunday night or against the Giants. We know that he got really fortunate a lot. and that all of those coin flip games would have gone the other way on the coin flip had just one defender that had a ball right in his hands, that he actually caught it instead of dropped it. Eight different quarterbacks, none of whom were very good in three seasons. I'm just not ready to say that the offensive struggles of the last three years

were exclusive to their offensive coordinator. I don't believe that to be true. We'll see what happens with Scott Turner. I wouldn't bail on him yet. Look, a lot of you said when I was on a chair, on a table, screaming about Mike and Kyle, a lot of you said, you're out of your mind. Kyle Shanhan's a dope.

Only reason he's got the job is Mike. A lot of you said the same things about Sean McVeigh. You know, oh my God, they keep running that duo play over and over again. He stinks. I mean, we have had strong opinion. about offensive coordinators in this town in the past. And when I say we, I mean mostly you. And you've been dead wrong.

Now, I don't know what Scott Turner will get. He'll get another opportunity to coach. It'll probably be a step down from OC, I would imagine. And, you know, I don't know if he'll ever be an offensive coordinator again. Again, I'm fine with this, but I just don't think he's as incompetent as many of you do. Sorry, I don't. There was one other thing I wanted to get two in the open here before we get to Doc's opinions on all of this. And that is this exchange yesterday, which we kind of talked about on the show yesterday, Tommy and I did.

But I wanted you to hear the question from David Aldridge and the answers from both Ron Rivera and Martin Mayhew. Listen carefully. This is about philosophy versus sort of adaptation to what they've had offensively, why they went to kind of heavy. run first offense this year. But I want you to listen to the question, listen to the answer, and then I'm going to comment on it. You have said consistently you want to be a run first team. Is that because of the personnel you have at quarterback, or is that a philosophical belief because most of the league seems to go the opposite way?

I think it's a philosophical belief. I mean, for me it is. I've been involved with that. I think a big part of it is that, you know, you've got to be able to be able to, to help your defense as well. You know, if you look at a lot of the teams that do end up at the end where they are, most of them rush for over 1,000 yards as an offense, well over 1,000, I should say. And I think they control the tempo of the game.

And I think that's what we need to do to win football games. We need to control that tempo of the game. You know, I do believe in a two-back system. You know, I've had success with that, and I believe we had some pretty good success with it. You know, unfortunately, both those young men for us ended up on injured reserve. But, well, B. Rob wasn't injured. B. Rob just didn't finish the last game. But, you know, they're a talented group of guys, and we've got to be able to use them.

You know, we've got some talented positions, and we've got to be able to get the ball in those guys' hands. I think we're all products of our experience in this league, you know. And in my experience here, the most success that I had was playing here. And we were to run first football team. and we were running back by committee football team, you know. And so that's what I've had success with when we had success in Detroit, in 2014. We had a run first orientation. I know coaches had a pretty good running back when you play, too, you know, in Chicago, you know.

So I think we're products of that and what we've experienced, and that's where I've had the most success. And I know that late in the year that becomes really, really important. And when you can't run the football late in the year, it makes it very, very difficult to advance, to make the playoffs or have success in the playoffs. So that's why I think it's really important. And the physicality of the game, I think, is what can make a good team better, you know, or an average team good. You know, when you can out hit somebody, it gets your chance to win every game.

There was a really good question from David Aldridge, because in listening to that press conference yesterday, what David and everybody there kind of picked up on was they were really, hell bent on emphasizing formula. I think they mentioned the word formula a half dozen times, as in it is the formula that we're trying to create here, this run first, you know, philosophy, heavy run to pass, heavy run over pass ratio. And David wanted to find out whether or not that was, you know, their philosophy, their philosophical belief, or it was kind of an adaptation to the talent or lack of talent that they had at quarterback.

And they answered that it was their philosophical belief. Well, I don't believe that for a moment. I think that's just an answer of convenient kind of recency. I mean, everything that they did last off season would speak to that not being their philosophy. They traded for a quarterback that could stretch the field vertically with a strong arm. They said that. We want to be able to make more throws. We want to be able to stretch the field.

We want to be able to go vertical. They extended with a massive contract extension Terry McLorn. They drafted a receiver at 16. They drafted a tight end that was basically a receiver. They re-signed a running back, and they did so in this controversial way with Buffalo, J.D. McKissick, that was more of a pass-catching running back. Yes, they drafted Brian Robinson, Jr. They also let Eric Flowers and Brandon Sheriff, they didn't have much control over that situation, a go.

If their philosophical belief was heavy run-to-pass ratio, they want to be, their identity is going to be heavy run over pass, then they wouldn't have traded for Carson Wentz. They would have signed Marcus Marietta, or they would have signed Mitch Trubisky, or they would have just kept what they have, had. I mean, it's just not true. None of their actions actually said this is what they wanted to be. Now, is it true that Ron really liked what they did in that four-game win streak last year with their running game? You know, and staying ahead of the chains and possessing the football and running it more than passing it? Yes, he did like that.

But they also did that out of necessity because they didn't have a quarterback that could really make NFL throws consistently. and they wanted something different than that. They wanted the ability to be able to do both. I'm not saying that they wanted to come in and be heavy Passover run. Maybe Scott wanted that, I don't know, but they wanted to be more balanced. They wanted the ability to throw the football when they needed to throw the football,

especially when they got behind if they were to get behind. I agree with a lot of things they say. Look, this formula is tried and true you know, for, you know, it's got to come with a great defense. It's got to come with a team that doesn't beat itself with penalties and turnovers. But, you know, if you play that kind of way, you can beat Tennessee with Derek Henry in the backfield and Ryan Tanna Hill at quarterback. By the way, that's a much better quarterback situation than they've had. And you can win 11 games,

maybe 12, probably not going to get to the Super Bowl playing that way in 2023. I have a problem if that's kind of philosophical belief in 2023. I think you do that, you move to that out of necessity. I mean, I like, trust me, I love physical football, you know, smash mouth football, and taking it to people and wearing people down. And I think, by the way, that travels well, especially with a great defense. but I, it's just, and Galdi, so Galdi pointed out on Twitter yesterday, and I went and and looked at even beyond what Gauley. Galdi had the nine out of the 10, top 10 passing teams

in the league are in the playoffs per the football outsider's DVOA metric. It's actually even more than that. 13 out of the 14 playoff teams are in the top half of the league in passing teams. All right. Those teams are, here it is right here. Hold on for one second. Those teams are Kansas City and Buffalo one, two.

By the way, your two best odds teams to win the Super Bowl. San Francisco really runs the ball well, guys, right? They're the number three-passed DVOA team in the league. Those three teams are three of the top four favorites to win the Super Bowl. Then you've got Miami for. Jacksonville is at six, Cincinnati, seven, Seattle's eight, Philly is nine, the Giants are 10, Tampa's 11, Dallas is 13, Minnesota is 15, and Baltimore is 16. 13 of the top 16 teams that are in 13 of the 14 playoff teams are in the top half of the league of past DVOA. nine out of the 14 playoff teams are in the top half of the league in rush DVOA.

You've got to be able to do both. And really, if you can't throw the football, your chances of winning a Super Bowl in 2023 aren't great. By the way, in the past DVOA rankings, the only team in the top 10, not in the postseason, is Detroit. and they were nearly in the postseason. How about the bottom teams in past DVOA? Indianapolis, Houston, Chicago, Arizona, Carolina, Denver, Washington, the Raiders, the Jets, the Patriots, the Saints. I mean, do I need to go on?

You got to be able to throw the football in 2023. If you can't throw the football, I don't have a problem with what they've done. I think actually in many ways it was good coaching to recognize, hey, we don't have a quarterback. We can't stretch the field. We put a lot of weapons out there, and we can be a short passing team. We can use Curtis Samuel in the run game. We can use McLaurin in the run game. You know, we can try to play action off of a really good run game to get those receivers the football on occasion in sort of medium length passes.

but that's not what their actions said in the offseason. I think I would have kind of felt, I would have respected their answers more yesterday if they had said, look, you got to be able to do both in this league. We want to be a physical point of attack kind of team. We want to be able to run the football. We believe in that. By the way, Martin Mayhew talking about the last team

that he played for here in Washington as being a run first team. I mean, but they were the best deep passing team in the league with the posse and Mark Rippin in 1991. Nobody lit up the league with deeper passes like Washington did in 1991. Yeah, Biner and Riggs and Ricky Irvins were pretty good running the football. They were balanced. They were a balanced team that really were incredibly successful throwing the deep ball and stretching out a defense with the deep ball.

I just I think one of the things that we've gotten used to here during the last three years is a lot of waffling on answers a lot of convenient answers based on recent data a lot of not really having a philosophy

unless they're forced into it they had an identity this year they developed an identity defense running game defense was something that's been coming with the talent acquisition, and they were able to put it together this year. The running game and being heavy run to pass, you know, after the early portion of the season when they were more pass heavy, because, by the way, in some cases, they were behind.

You know, the Detroit game, when Wentz threw for 360 and through for near, what was it, 46 times, 45 times, whatever it was, they were down 22 to nothing. They were down big against Philly. They were down big against Dallas. So, you know, some of the heavy pass over run ratio early was also because they were behind. But their actions in the offseason, you know, spoke to wanting to be able to throw the football. And I think ultimately that's where some of the disconnect with Ron and Scott developed. You know, I don't think Scott probably had a major problem understanding what they were at quarterback, you know, with Wentz healthy or with whence unhealthy.

key in there. I mean, obviously, Wents was not the right selection. They did a terrible job on that. They tried to defend that yesterday, too. But I think if this really is who they want to be philosophically, you know, you keep Dotson, obviously, you keep Terry McLorn, he's under contract. You really heavily invest in the offensive line. You see if you can get something for Curtis Samuel, and you keep Gibson and you keep Robinson Jr., and you keep, Williams, and you either go with Sam Hal, who is a dual-threat quarterback in many ways, or you think about drafting somebody like Anthony Richardson, who might be there at 16, who could be a phenomenal, you know, dual-threat quarterback, run-first quarterback.

Maybe Justin Fields becomes available, you know, if they decide to go Bryce Young, number one overall in Chicago. imagine Justin Fields with, you know, an overall heavy run-to-pass philosophy with the defense that they have here. And by the way, Justin Fields can throw the football a little bit. I know statistically it wasn't good. And he was an incredible runner this year. But if you're really going to go with that philosophy,

hire, you know, Todd Downing, who just got fired in Tennessee, you know, draft Anthony Richardson, or if you think, Sam Hal is going to be a dual threat quarterback. Go with Sam Hal. Or trade for Justin Fields. Invest in your offensive line. Cut wents. Go with Fields and Hal or Richardson and Hal.

And let's go Baltimore. Let's go Philly. Let's go Tennessee. And play that way. You know, if you really want to do that, don't go out and draft another receiver and, you know, find another quarterback that can stretch the field for weight. too much compensation.

That part of the presser yesterday was odd. Doc Walker next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, it's time to bring on my good friend, Rick Doc Walker. I want to read this Apple review. It comes from Brian who writes, When you have Doc on, there's nothing better than when you say to Doc, it's time for X's and O's Burgundy and gold Thank you Brian

And almost said maroon And white No you didn't Because our colors are no longer Burgundy a gold Well that's true Well there is I don't know what the colors are

No it's not No that Brian had a lot of nice things to say About every time Doc comes on the show And Brian just so you know I mean he gets invited On the show all the time And it's my pleasure

When he comes on He's very busy I try not to reach out too often because I don't want to ask too much. Look, I'm the substitute teacher. Okay, it's okay. Whenever Cooley can't do it, I do it. You know, and I'm honored to do that.

What is it about tight ends? Like, you Cooley and Logan Paulson, because I like Logan a lot. I think Logan's got a sharp opinion about football. I mean, the three tight ends are the best analysts of this team and have been in this market for years. It's a highest IQ position. It is a high IQ position.

I know you're saying, but it is for real. No, V. Hyatt. The highest. Yeah. More than quarterback? The highest. In my opinion, yeah. Why?

But, you know, when we never have to put on a color jurors and be told not to be touched, you know, and it's full contact, and you've got to do more than one thing at once. But even if it's a tie, you know, I'll take that. But I don't want to hurt their feelings because they're very fragile. So put them in first place if that makes you happy. It doesn't make me happy. I was just asking you why, but I have heard from many people over the years, not you, because you don't self-promote, but many other people that the tight-end position requires.

very, very high IQ smart players. And that's why a lot of them end up becoming a big-time analyst. Look, Greg Olson's the number one analyst on Fox, tight end. Yeah, yeah. All right. So Doc's got his podcast, which you should listen to, wherever you get a podcast. But his is really at Patreon. So you've got to go to patreon.com to get his podcast.

He's on Burgundy and Gold today on the 980 signal, which is the one that I'm on in the mornings. Doc does 12 to 3 most days of the week. You can listen to him there. All right, let's just start with this. Your reaction to Scott Turner being fired yesterday. Well, I like Scott as a person. But it's a golden parachute.

He got a three-year deal and got released. So that's what family does. you know, it's like the mob, you know, he didn't get hit. You know, he got transferred. So he's transferred to another team, and he'll be there, and it'll be fine, because this league takes care of his own and this alumni, and they do a great job at it. I just have a hard time understanding how a guy who's in charge of everything

gets amnesia when it comes to a position of when it becomes critical. how could you Scott's an employee and so we've got this coach-centric system so he was allowed to do it on his own the head coach had no idea

I'm confused but yesterday and I don't get into hire and fire it but I did demand human sacrifice at some point I don't care who it is but you can't have destroyed the season in the end

and done a poor job as they did and not have a casualty. It's just un-American. You're a samurai yourself or you've got to pick somebody because you can't have this group, love vote group, go in and fail miserably, and everybody get a full check and just walk away and we get pie in our face as a fan base,

people who die by it, live by it, and bleed Burgundy and gold. That's the part that pisses me off. But I don't blame him, because when you got a guy hiring you for something he has no idea about, what do you expect? So was Scott Turner, because you're referring here a lot to Ron Rivera, and the big check that he gets... The guy's in charge. The guy's in charge. He's in charge.

He does everything, picks everything. Yeah, so... But then it doesn't know what happened. Can't control what plays a call. Has no influence on the guy that he hired and gave a three-year addition to. Come on, man. When this leaves here, it goes right to Comedy Central. This script goes right to Comedy Central.

So did Scott Turner get fired because he needed a scapegoat or because Scott Turner wasn't very good at what he did? I would pick the scapegoat because how can you say he's not good at what he does? You gave him a three-year extension months ago. What are you saying? You don't have any influence or you didn't know what players were going to be called? Are you saying you're in charge? because you got nothing to do with what's called?

Are you serious? Come on, man. Okay. But again, it'll work, it'll work on this powder puff fan base, so whatever. They get to do whatever they want to do. All I'm suggesting is that they

actually try to win because he was hired to be a social worker to clean the culture up. Well, I don't give a damn about the culture. Because the culture on the football team and the culture in the front of of two different animals. And they sell you a bunch of crap. Okay, it's not his job

to handle the culture of an organization that was ruined by a guy who has no sense of direction at all. So let's get that straight. So you come in, not just him, at least in Denver, they admitted their mistake. They didn't try to double down.

You don't think it's rare that you fire a guy after you give him a three extension, and yet you're in charge of everything. You don't find that. I mean, you're just playing like you don't get it. I understand what you're doing. You're acting like you don't longer care.

Well, it's not my level of caring. I still have strong opinions about this. I think you make a really good point. No, no. I think you don't care. I think you make a really good point. I mean, this is, and this is what you're saying. You're saying the guy that just gave the offensive coordinator,

a contract extension through the 2024, 2025 season, fired him a year into that extension as if somebody else decided to give him the extension. No, Ron Rivera decided to give him the extension. He gave it to him, so it's really his fault. You would like to see Ron Rivera gone. No, I don't fire people. I'd like to see Ron do his job.

I'd like to see him simply do his job. Your job, but he's doing his job. He was doing his job. Because he changed, he changed the culture. I would have asked him to, his job would have been defined by winning. So he came as a social worker, not as a football coach. That's where you took the cheese at. I don't give a damn about their culture, okay?

Yeah. Yeah. So what is you telling me? I mean, really, what is he? You've got to be something. So if you're not the guy who gives the raises and decides who does the job, you're telling me you didn't know what players are going to be called you got jim brown on the sidelines you can't convert on third and a inch and you're telling me it's the coordinator's fault but yet it's a

dictatorship which is it i'm confused and so are you but you just don't want more than no no no no no no no i care because we're getting ripped off again i don't another group comes in they ripped the market off and then you're the one of the one of the one of the one way with years of payment and you think I'm not supposed to be affected by that? Well, you're not affected as much as you act like you're affected. You don't care as much as you used to care either. So. Yeah, well, no, but you don't know.

You don't control what I can. Oh, yeah, but I. You, you, you don't go in a studio. Uh-huh. You work from your, from your estate. Yeah. You don't go to the state. It's a studio.

You're totally removed. Yeah. You're totally removed right now. I don't care as much as I used to. to. There is no doubt. You're not in the game anymore. But you don't either. But you don't either. And I just said, and I just said, I just said, you

have a bigger issue with Rivera than you do anybody else. I'd like to hear you admit that. No, I have a problem with the leadership. The leadership. The person who picks, who plays?

Who put Carson Went to the game? And he looked like Bozo to the clown and quarterback. Who's responsible? Is that, Is that the guy that just got fired? I don't know. Who was it? Is that, so, no, I'm asking you, the guy who got fired?

You're my guest. I'm asking you. Do you know who? You know what it is. Who convinced whom to put Carson Wentz in the game against the Browns? Nobody had to be to convince the guy who was in charge of everything. Right. So he's had three years.

He's lost more than he's won. He's a social worker. his whole career is that. So what's your point? Well, I'm just, I'm just, it sounds to me like you don't care about the Scott Turner thing that you just want, you don't think anything's going to change

until Ron Rivera's gone and you, for whatever reason, would admit it. No, there's nothing going to change until the ownership is changed. Okay, well, we can agree on that. It's got a damn thing to do with Ron Rivera. It's got a damn thing to do Ron Rivera. Well, you've been talking about Ron Rivera's doing it.

Well, Ron Rivera's doing it. Well, Ron Rivera. There's in charge. He's a guy that said he's a czar. Everything, you know, he does everything. He's in charge of everything. And you don't think it's strange that your guy gets promoted so he gets a bonus and he gets fired so he gets not only an all expense paid trip to Cancun, but they double down

and give it to him for three years in Cancun. And it's his fault. So I know it is funny. No, no. No, I know it is funny. Yeah. But we. That was funny.

Okay. So, oh, you didn't think the kid to come in. to beat the playoff eventual Super Bowl champion Dallas Cowboys. And the guy comes in who hasn't played all year and rips him a new one. And you don't think it was strange that he almost didn't play at all?

And he wouldn't have played unless Heineke put him in. You know, Heineke's the reason he played. Oh, you're talking about Sam Hal. Okay, sorry. Yeah, Sam Howl. You don't think that's strange? I thought the whole thing was strange. I thought the whole...

Yeah, but you're not saying it. Oh, I did. You don't care. I talked about it all right. You don't care. All these people are to you as a ratings point out. You look at their chaos. I'm actually suspicious.

Well, that's true. You benefit from your chaos. And so do you. And I want them to win. I want them to win. You're such a fraud. I'll give the money back if they win. You won't.

You won't. I wish some of you could hear our private conversations. Yeah, Phil. I don't know what you talked about. I don't talk to you. You don't talk to me, Bill. Somebody didn't show up. We both.

And I bail you out. Let me tell you something. Yeah. And let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. What? This is a sin, and it's going to continue to happen until we as a group of fans. Stop it.

What fans? But we're so stuck. We mean what fans? And the people that go to the games is not indicative of our power. Yeah. And you know that. I agree. So what you're recommending?

Until we do what? Well, you got to get over first. Yeah, of course. You can't do anything. We got a gift this year. We got a gift. Yeah. The gift.

Absolutely. Yeah, this is the, you know, this is the light at the end of the tunnel that says people like me who don't care as much as we used to could be back with the real ownership and, you know, real, well, real ownership that gives you a chance, gives you a chance to actually win more than you lose. There you go. But let's make one thing clear. Their dysfunction over the years has benefited both of us. But if they had been winning like they'd been winning in places like Boston, we would have benefited to a much higher level, much higher. That's, yeah, that's good.

No, that's a hundred percent true. The object is to win. Okay, so we both agree on the owner. That's obvious. That's obvious for years. And, you know, by the way, that it was something it took you a while on because you were good friends with the owner and hung out with the owner. And we were all telling you that you will never win with this owner. You finally come around on that.

I can't consider being good friends with somebody. I've been around maybe three times individually. I don't know him at all. We don't know me. We were talking about this the other day. I think the last interview that Snyder did, I mean, a real interview with somebody in town. talking about a charity event where somebody throws out a question, a news reporter. I was there.

I think you did it. No, Cooley. No, I think Cooley did it with a, Cooley may have done it. But I think all of the others were done. Well, you didn't do it once. There was a period there, two or three years you did it every year in training camp. And they asked me. I know they asked you to.

To the changes, well, I said, I won't do it. I won't do it unless I do it my way. If you don't want to answer, just say no. I say no comment. You're not going to tell me what to ask somebody. They tried, but I didn't do it. I remember that. They try every time.

But that's okay. I don't blame that. All I care about is winning. Here's my deal. How can you get a raise failing? That's like a kid's putting in a C or D minus paper, and you give him an A. I don't understand that. I need you to explain that to me.

We got all these people with all these titles. The only thing I care about is a scoreboard. It's never personal with me. I love linebacker Ron. I don't like the guy swallowing the microphone. I don't even know that guy. I want linebacker Ron. I want the guy in there.

We got everything. He's right. I want Ron to do his job and finish the job, which is to get into the playoffs with a competitive team. They can compete for the alumni. Barney Trophy. Is that asking too much? In this organization, it is. In this organization

it is. With that owner, it's asking too much. Okay, well, okay, so you don't find a strain that Ron fires a guy that you just promote it. You think that's no problem with that, huh? Well, I mean, putting it

that way, of course it's odd, but, you know, like you said from the beginning, I think that he needed a ape goat for this, you know, disastrous end of this season. I think if they had, you know, won one more game and, you know, beaten the Giants in that Sunday night game and they were still playing on Saturday. I don't think anybody would have been fired.

I agree. But I do think that there was a disconnect between Ron and Scott. Because all of the conversation, and I talked about this in the open to the show, all of the conversation yesterday about what they were. want to be, and this is who they are philosophically. Well, their actions spoke to something that was the opposite of that. They traded for Carson Wentz. Oh, you listen to the press carpet. I did. Oh, what are you talking about? Oh, you did? You listened to that? Yeah. I watched it. Yeah. I watched the replay. Oh, okay. I didn't. Yeah. All right. Well, no, I didn't. Actually, you would have loved it because

Martin and Ron talked about a philosophy of being a run-first team. No, no, I wouldn't have loved it because I've heard it before. Well, no, they change the same stuff they always say. No, they change all the time. What was different? What was different? Oh, they always change. They change their ideas on everything. At the beginning, here's what was different. Here's what was different. What was different? So at the beginning of the season, after trading for Carson Wentz, drafting Jahan Dotson, extending Terry McLaren, resigning J.D. McKissick, drafting a tight end that was really a wide receiver and Cole Turner and telling you that they wanted to be a more vertical team. They wanted to be able to stretch the field and throw the ball down the field.

Yesterday, they said that their core philosophy is being a heavy run-to-pass team. That's what they want to be. That's what they're looking for. So, yeah, they do switch based on where they are. And I do think that... But see, I don't follow what they say. I just follow what they do. Right.

I don't listen to anything they say. Well, why do you even follow what they do? All you got to do is look at the record. You don't even follow it. I wouldn't know until yet. But the overall, if your overall record indicates failure, more failure than success, how can you ever make more money every year? Why do you get increased?

Well, when you say more failure than success, I had this conversation with Tommy yesterday, you do know that Ron Rivera has a winning record as a head coach in the NFL. Did you know that? No, I didn't. Yeah, he's 98, 90. He's eight games over 500. In 12 seasons of coaching, he's been to the playoffs five times. Now, what is also true, well, it's much better than anybody's done around here in 25, 30 years.

But what is also true is that in his 12 years of coaching, he's had nine seasons in which he ended up, or eight seasons, excuse me, in which he ended up with a losing record. That's true also. And typically you don't end up getting opportunity after opportunity. But as Tommy pointed out, think about the two owners that have hired him. Jerry Richardson no longer in the NFL and Dan Snyder on his way out. But anyway, at least you acknowledge he's one hell of a social worker. Right? He did a great.

No, he's the best. He's the best of social. Can we talk about... He's one of the best of our air. Can we talk about Scott Turner, though, more seriously? Yeah. Okay. I understand that he got a raise and, yes.

Got a raise and then got fired. What about Scott Turner did you think was something, you know, that deserved firing, regardless of the contract extension, and what kind of excuses would you make for Scott Turner if you were in the camp of not firing him? Well, I would need somebody to explain to me the past protection. Who's in charge of past protection in the passing game? because Scott Turner designed

had too many people wide open that a kid couldn't see or couldn't hit him. He had too much inconsistency a quarterback for me to judge whether or not he's a bump. But where I am infuriated over is their past protection schemes.

But I don't know who's in charge of that. You know, because if you're going to pay a guy to block a first-round pick or a pro-ball guy, you should pay him that way. So if you're telling me that somebody actually thought it was a good idea to leave 11, a premier pass rush, a Timbertoe, all the great ones that we have in the league, and then you're going to blame the tackle. If you don't chip, if you don't slide protection, or do anything to assist him, I then am critical of the design,

not the player. because I played in the system against great players and that didn't dominate the games we played it. So it's possible you can do that. That troubles me, but I don't know who's in charge of what because I'm assuming that the one guy says, in charge of everything should have brought that, that should have come to his attention.

And he should have then been in the meetings and understood and suggested that we double somebody of high interest. That's just me. I don't know. Obviously, that's not popular, and they went it the other way. In all seriousness, who is, is it Matzko or is it Turner that's responsible for pass protection? Because you had an issue with this all year long, who we did everybody. Ron Rivera, the head guys in Georgia, everything. You keep missing a boat.

The one guy. I'm trying to ask you, on a week-to-week basis, who was designing the pass protection? coach centric. Okay. Yeah, everybody. Everything goes to him. So I'm just saying to him, then why isn't that addressed at the press conference? Why don't we ever hear that?

I don't understand that. Why are you putting something on a subservient, an employee? You don't ever ask the general manager, the manager. I don't understand it. It's the system he set up. And now you're saying it's not his fault. Failure is not his fault. It's the employee's fault.

Well, I mean, you don't think he's going to give up another $8 million in one season and throw himself, you know, under on the gauntlet. He's not going to do that. He's not going to sacrifice himself for $8 million. Okay, well. Especially when he doesn't think it's his fault. We've heard that a lot. All right, it sounds like, you know, it sounds like, you know,

I'm just following what I hear. I'm very serious. You're trying to put it on everybody but the boss, the guy, the head guy, who's in charge of everything. I don't want to put it on. If you're in charge of everything, then it's your fault. I don't want to put it on. I don't want to put it on Turner. No, you want to put it on Turner.

I want to put it on Turner. I want to put it on, I want to put it on Ron, too. You're right. So it's third fault. Then the Giants, you got a guy who's 6-6, 250 wide open, a guy air flights it and misses him. All those misses, that's on the coordinator. Noah shows me, designed pretty good. Well, he got people open.

Couldn't get anybody to give him the ball. But then he picked the guy to get him the ball. All their personnel is on Ron. He picks all the people. He's a GM. He's the president. He's in charge of everything. Okay, well, I don't know why this is not clear.

to you. It is clear to me. Coach Centric. Why are we having this conversation? Well, because Scott Turner got fired. I wanted you, I wanted to ask you about Scott Turner. I wanted to get your thoughts on the offensive coordinator. You can do, you can do two things at once. You can say the whole thing's on the head coach, but let me tell you about what I thought about Scott Turner is an offensive coordinator. I thought Scott Turner had some really nice design. It's not my cup of tea to be on the one-yard line and be in spread or wide. Yeah, I'd have been in jumbo. You've got a wide receiver, of course, you're touch,

that he'd never been in the game. I don't understand that. Okay, I don't understand why you get big guards, big old guys that are the physical guys, you run them on screens and put them out of space. They couldn't get me in space. So what are you good at? A coach's job, as I was taught,

is to get the best out of every person. Not everybody's great, but you find out what they do best and you build around their skill set. I see guys wearing 340 in space not hitting a dead man. Well, so you're not good in space. So past protection is not your forte,

but I can't get an inch. I can't get a yard from you. So what is it that you do? Oh, you're a friend of the family. Okay, get it. So that's why you're here. All right, cool. I just need to understand, man.

Now I'm understanding. What do you think? You don't want to do with it. What do you think, what do you think coach centric? What do you think coach centric? What do you think coach centric's going to do at quarterback? What should he do at quarterback? Let me see.

Well, first of all, he's got to replace his coordinator, so he'll go get another former employee. Right. And a friend of another friend of a family, and they'll bring some guy over. Give him an extension. You'll know his last name. You'll know his last name. And so, because he's a maid man, and they'll bring him in. and things just continue.

And, you know, and if they get that kid in from North Carolina, now they did draft him. And I think they've got some great talent. And I also heard he's going to scrimmage this year. They've got some great talent? They've got some outstanding talent. I like the kid. Well, who brought in the talent?

Who's in charge of the football operation? Brought it. Oh, so he did, so they've got some good talent. So he did something well other than the social worker. Not just social work. He's got a decent roster. He's got a decent roster. He's got a decent roster. Absolutely. But what doesn't he have? He doesn't have a quarterback.

So what's he going to do? Well, he doesn't have a quarterback. He's drafted in the fifth round. The kid came in and beat the Cowboys. Cowboys may win the Super Bowl. He just beat them. The Cowboys are going to win this Super Bowl. Oh, Clay. And their top five, what are you talking about? Clay's listening right now.

And Doc and I on. On Brooke text messages with Clay, we just say, there's no chance you can't lose to Tampa. Tampa is terrible. I mean, you've got Dak Prescott and Mike McCarthy and they should win the Super. If you don't win the Super Bowl, but they're not winning the Super Bowl. They got, for limited league, it's so interesting. That's why I wish I could get myself to where I don't even get emotionally tied up with it. They've got Fred Flintstone of their head coach.

They got the richest program in sports. the most popular brand, they're instant money. But the coach won't hire an alpha because he wants to be the GM. If I was a really good coach, the first thing I would request is that he'd get the hell out of the general manager's seat and go to the owner's box

and go entertain his guests. But he ain't going to do that. You're not going to get the job. Because he doesn't have to win. You're right. You're not going to, Sean Pay. Anybody really serious is a multimillionaire, the first thing you do is you go out,

you get the best in the industry. and convince them to join you. The guys that had buddies who, I mean, Snyders, I guarantee his number one council came from your best friend, Scott Van Pelt, because they're all on the ESPN. All they can do is whatever Scott said, then their buddies go tell Dan, and that's what we've been doing. Yeah, right. ESPN has been running our program for a few decades. That's funny.

I'm saying, well, who else was doing it? Okay, stop. What do you? Just look at the hired. What should they do at quarterback, other than Sam Howell? Oh, Sam Howell. You like Sam Howell? Well, I love Sam Howell, but now he's going to have a new boss,

whomever that, when they bring the kid in from Buffalo, to be the coordinator or somebody else's friend, yeah, Shula. Recognize the last name. The next friend of the family that they bring in, it's the same thing going to happen all over again. It depends on to let the kid play or not. and now Heineke will go wherever

Turner goes I'm sure Heineken will go there because he knows the system He's been with it for six years and he knows the system up and down and so Amen I don't know what

I know when you're just making fun of me because you love dragging me over the colds because I care No this kills me It kills me that we're laughing stock You know and you love this. Who is your new team anyway?

Who do you really follow? Oh, Minnesota. I forgot. I forgot. I forgot. You got that horn? I do like that horn. That's good.

I love that horn. That's a good one. Let me tell you, are you a season ticket holder now? For what? And you bought tickets? Minnesota. I'm a season ticket holder to the Vikings game like you just had dinner with Dan and Tanya. You want to talk about that?

well I wish I did I'd sure love to talk to him I'd love to get him on the show yeah well matter of fact I would love to I wouldn't be a season ticket holder to the Minnesota of the Vikings it's a long way to travel on Sundays especially from the comfort of my beautiful

warm studio that I'm in right now what else do I have for you know does Kevin ever come in I go hell no hell no why would he come in he doesn't come in we got to go to him. I said, no, the king is doing well. I'm proud of you, man.

I'm proud of you. You stop. And it was good to see Herzog. And without you, Herzog wouldn't even have been into the building. And I applaud you for that. That was a great, that was a great movie. If they were smart, they'd hire you. If they were smart, they would hire you.

Yeah. No, they would hire you. And they would have Ron's got this guy up in the booth. They would hire. They would hire you. And you would. And you would be you. And you know what you would do?

And I believe this. You would pick the best people. You would sell, entice the best people to come work for this organization. Now, you couldn't do it with the current owner. Couldn't do it with the current owner because people see, they would see beyond you and they would see the garbage at the top. But with a new owner, that new owner, that new owner, that new owner, you couldn't do it. should hire someone like you and you can go pick the people. I'll stick to the game.

I'll stick to the game. I had a ball. Look, that's what I saw. And look, Chris Paul, you see him at guard? Yeah. I've been screaming all year. How did he play? Put this freak in the gate played well.

Played well. Playing against the Dallas Cowboys. I mean, I'm just telling you, that was an indictment on this entire staff. I don't care what anybody says. from our linebackers, our specialties people, Joey didn't have the best game, but I'll tell you what, these kids, they play hard,

and it's a sin that they not be put in a position to benefit from it. That's all I'm asking for is that they be put in a position to maximize their skills because we can act, we don't have to be in last place every year. It's no damn reason for that.

It's just a damn shame. I think the social worker has put together a decent roster, and if they can get a quarterback, they can play... They got a quarterback. No, you mean if they can put the guy they have in the damn game. Okay, well, you're convinced on Sam Hal. I'm not convinced yet after one game, but... No, no, no, no.

I can say he's better than what you have. Okay. I'll take him over what you have. Right now, so what I... I know I'm getting maybe Derek Carr. if they might be able to get Derek Carr, you know, they might be able to get, they've got some connections.

See, if they could, you know, I put Jack in charge of some of this. We've got to split up the responsibility. I can no longer have the head hot show in charge of everything. I think that's been a failure. Yeah. So I think I want Martin Mayhew.

Except that the roster's pretty good. It is. Yeah. It is, but I want Martin Mayhew to not have to have a passive, have Ron attached to him every time he speaks. I think he needs to be free of that.

Cut the shackles. Let him go do his job. Yeah, but you're not going to put anything on Martin Mayhew because everything falls at the feet of Ron. I said I'd like to change that. Cut the chains. Okay. Cut the chains off and let Martin go do his job independently.

Right. Okay. And then let Ron coach. And this, let's see what happened. We got our training room together now. The FBI is out. We actually got Bell in the end, you know, and we're doing well. And then we said,

The DEA agents aren't there this year. Yeah, they're not there anymore. That was a Ron hire. Okay, we got him out. Right. So now I heard we're going to scrimmage. Oh, my God. We're finally going to scrimmage another opponent.

Well, somebody's got to agree to it. Which is mandatory. Well, he's got connections all over the play. What are you talking about? There is a pro team you could drive. You could actually ride bicycles to Baltimore, and they could scrimmage the Raven, unless they're afraid of them.

So we'll see. I mean, it's up there. Hey, look, dude, all I can do is react to what I see and what happens. That's it. I can't predict anything. All right, this was fun. Because I don't understand how they think. Well, thank you.

Is Cooley okay? Cooley's fine. Okay, good. This is usually the, This is usually the day, Mondays or Wednesdays, the days I like to have you on, because Tommy's on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And when you make yourself available, and you, I mean, I don't like to ask a lot. I don't like to ask a lot. I'm available all the time. Figured you'd have, you know, 15, usually you've got 17 different jobs.

I mean, the radio and the podcast and the speaking engagements and all the different things that you're always into, all the vacation time you take. I never want to interrupt any of that vacation time. There's not one vacation day that Doc Walker hasn't used in the 17 years that I've known him. Okay, I said this to your producer. And thank God you did it. You were off. And I told me. You're right.

I took some days off this year at holiday time for the first time. You have him come on that damn show and you did it. You did come on. Yeah. A New Year's Eve, whatever you did. I told him, I go. He said, well, we have him. in for Cal, I said, what? I said, that's BS. You get him on that show. I wake up to him if he

better be on that damn show. And you did. You did call in as a guest. Even when you're on vacation, you owe us at least 30 minutes. At Rick Doc Walker on Twitter, patreon.com slash Doc Walker for Doc's podcast with Solly. Have you recorded your episode for today? Yes, I did. We're done. Yeah. Good. Hey, I grew up to Walter Cronkite. You are Walter Cronkite. Okay, good day. Love you.

I'll talk to you soon. Give you family my best. Doc Walker, everybody. I'll finish up with a segment where I list my top 10 commanders of the year. Doc would love to hear him, but he's gone now. That's next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This final segment of the show will feature my top 10 Washington Commanders, for the 2022 season.

I think I used to do this on the show. Maybe I did it with Cooley and Tommy. Haven't done it in a while. I have no idea what made me think of this last night. But I worked on a list. I took everything into consideration, and I will unveil the top 10 Washington commanders for 2022 here in a moment. This final segment of the show is presented by Window Nation.

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estimate and take advantage of their home show savings. No interest five years. Buy two, get two free, no limit. Windonation.com. home show or 866 90 Nation. All right. My top 10 Washington commanders for 2022. There were some honorable mentions. I'm not going to mention them first because you may think they're going to end up in the top 10. And I don't want to spoil the anticipation as we count down from 10 to 1.

I'm going to start with number 10. and even though he only played in 12 games, Jahan Dotson was one of the best 10 players on their team. And I don't think it's going to be much of a reach right now to say that he's going to be on this list every single year he's on this team, barring injury in years to come. What a special talent Jahan Dotson is. 12 games, seven touchdowns really made them look good from an evaluation standpoint.

And by the way, the tradeback value, where they got Brian Robinson Jr., where they got Cole Turner, where they got Sam Howell. And, you know, all of that by trading back five spots with New Orleans. New Orleans ended up taking Chris Alave, and Alave was outstanding as a rookie. I mean, he is in the mix for offensive rookie of the year. He's not going to win it. Kenneth Walker will probably win it. But Jahan Dotson comes in 10. think about Dotson and Terry McCluren together with a really good quarterback

and the production that those guys will have. I don't think there's a better route runner on the team. I don't think there's a more natural, instinctive hands catcher than Jehan Dotson. I think he's the best with the ball in the air. Everything about him, I love. I think he is a tough cover. I think he's the guy that eventually, even more than Terry, will keep defensive coordinators up late at night.

Jahan Dotson and at number 10. Number nine, Defoe, Derek Forrest. What a season. What a revelation Derek Forrest was. Came out of that tough Cincinnati program. Luke Fickle. Marcus Freeman was his defensive coordinator, the head coach at Notre Dame.

This guy's tough. He's a hitter. He made plays. He led the team in interceptions with four. this guy just was all over the field and high IQ. Part of what I really think was a very intelligent back end for Washington. Not only did you get players who could play, they were players that clearly Jack Del Rio had a lot of confidence in.

There was connectivity between Del Rio and his back four this year. Remember, in the offseason, when he complained that some of the secondary people weren't there for some of those limited off-season opportunities, and that this year would be better because everybody was there. He was right. He was right. Forrest was outstanding this year. He comes in at number nine on the list.

Number eight on the list, Antonio Gibson. And I know some of you are like, Sheen, get off Gibson's jock. I mean, it's been enough of you and Gibson this year. I think he's a top five talent on this team. I really do. I think you could argue that. He still had a very productive year. He ended up with, you know, 900 yards of total offense,

missed the last few games, five touchdowns, 50 plays that resulted in first downs, and no fumbles, no lost fumbles. He did have one fumble, but they recovered it. No lost fumbles. What was the big conversation about Antonio Gibson when we found out that, I think it was from Ben Standing, when we found out that they were going to be interested in the back in the draft, It was all about his fumbling problem.

And by the way, the durability issue a little bit. But it was about the fumbles and the concern over the fumbles. I think ultimately what they really did say at the time when they drafted Brian Robinson, Jr., and I think it turned out to be true, is they, you know, they did like the combination of, you know, the Jonathan Stewart, Christian McCaffrey, Jonathan Stewart, DeAngelo Williams. What they had in Carolina, the two-back system, he talked about. that yesterday actually. I think they really were looking for that. I think they were concerned about the fumbles. I think they were concerned about the wear and tear on Gibson. Personally,

I think Gibson handles inside the tackles well. Brian Robinson, Jr., coming up on this list, turned out to be even better than Gibson at that. And I know at one point in the season, I was like, I want Gibson with a significant more a number of touches than Brian Robinson, Jr. I like Antonio Gibson. I think he had a really good year. I think if he plays the whole season, I think if they've got better quarterback play, I think he ends up being a guy that produces even more. But he comes in for me at number eight on the list. Number seven on the list is Brian Robinson, Jr. I mean, let's face it, the guy turned out to be an absolute beast of a running back. He only played really in 11 games. I mean, 12 if you count the Tennessee game.

797 yards. The average 3.9 yards per carry, nothing to write home about. But how many of those yards were all yards that he gained, yards after contact? I mean, the amount of times that he basically created something out of nothing. I mean, he is the definition of nothing there. Somehow he gets three. You know, if there's minus two, he gets back to the line of scrimmage. If there's three, he gets six. God forbid you give him any kind of forward momentum. He's going to carry the pile for three to four yards. He was outstanding. He is a guy that has a chance to be a really good NFL back this year. You know, it's funny about Brian Robinson Jr. One of the things we heard so much about, you know, mature, played so much in college, never fumbled. And by the way,

he didn't have a lost fumble this year either. You know, the only lost fumble they had on a rushing attempt all season long was Curtis Samuel. That was it. You know, and last year with Gibson, that was an issue. But Brian Robinson, Jr. was outstanding. They were right about him. I still would have looked at Tyler Algier in that spot before Brian Robinson Jr. I loved Kenneth Walker. Now I think he was gone. Al Jir is a guy that ultimately in Atlanta is another guy that's, you know, in the running for offensive rookie of the year. He won't get it. Again, Kenneth Walker will get it. But man, they didn't go wrong with Brian Robinson, Jr. That's for sure. I thought he was too upright. I thought he was too tentative. But he was new and he was coming off a near tragedy in August.

Once he got his sea legs under him, and by the way, once they went to the formula of heavy run first, a lot of those yards, man, he was a bull. Imagine with, you know, a real pass threat. with a better offensive line. This guy isn't Derek Henry, but he's kind of baby Derek Henry. I don't know about that. But Brian Robinson, Jr., a hell of a season in his rookie year, he comes in number seven on my list. Number six, Montez Sweat.

Some might have had him higher on this list. You can make that determination when you hear what my top five are. Montes Sweat finished 13th in tackles for loss in the NFL tied for 13th, had eight sacks on the season, had multiple pass deflections. Once again, a big part of what he was able to do with the line of scrimmage, impact passing lanes. He still doesn't get home enough. I mean, I don't know how he doesn't get home enough because they definitely recognize him on the other side. as a guy that is going to be a problem, but an outstanding season from Montez Sweat.

Certainly the sack numbers could have been higher. And if they were, if he got, you know, home a little bit more, I think I would have had sweat higher. I just love his motor. I love his size. I love his athleticism. I love his strength. I think he's really learning how to play the position. He comes in number six on my list of the top 10 commanders. for 2022. Number five, Cameron Curl. We talked about Derek Forrest, who came in number nine on this list. I mean, if there's ever a player that you hold up as the definition of he gains more when he's not playing than when he is, Cameron Curl would be the guy this year because when he was out, first two games of the year, the Cleveland game, the defense really struggled without.

them. They've got a high Q back end, high IQ back end. He is a hitter. He can cover. He's versatile. He's smart. He's great in the box. He's great if he's in free safety mode. He's an excellent player. Seventh rounder out of Arkansas. They weren't good without him, almost every single time, with the exception of the Dallas game at the end. You know, key games early in the season without them. They were at their worst defensively in those first two games of the year. Cameron Curl comes in at number five on my list. Number four, Tressway. Kind of self-explanatory, right? I mean, he deserves to be in the top ten. He's been, if we count special teamers,

and I did, he's been basically their most consistent and most respected player over the last eight years or however long he's been here. How long has he been here? I think this was his eighth season in Washington? That sounds right. Pro Bowl season for him, respected around the league, was second in the league with punts inside the 20. Interestingly, Johnny Hecker, Carolina, who had a better average and a better net average,

and more kicks inside the 20, wasn't the NFC pro bowler. Tressway was. And I think that goes to show just how much respect the players around the league in particular have for tress away. By the way, this was his ninth season. 2014 was his first year. This was his ninth season in Washington and ended up with his second best season in terms of kicks inside the 20.

He had 41 back in 2018. And this year, by the way, given the struggles that they had on, offense. He punted more this year than any other year with the exception of 2017. Now, there are 17 games, so that matters too. But Tressway comes in at number four on the list. Number three on the list, Duran Payne, led the team in sacks, fourth in the league in TFLs, an absolute one-on-one mismatch with everybody he faced. Duron Payne, you could make the case, should have been even higher on this list. Contract year, whatever concerns you have about this was a contract year,

and you'll never get this from Duron Payne again. It's not an unreasonable take because there was inconsistency in his first few years in the league. He put it all together this year. They won him back. That was an emphasis yesterday. You heard it from Martin Mayhew. Of course, he's going to be sought after in free. agency. Franchise tag for the detackle position, just over 18 million, I believe it is. But what a

season he had. I mean, 18 TFLs tied for fourth in the league, 11 and a half sacks, five pass deflections at the line of scrimmage. He was an absolute handful for any interior offensive linemen. I think Duran Payne is the most gifted player that they have. have. No, that's not true. Chase Young is probably the most talented. Duran Payne is probably second on defense. He comes in third on my list of the top 10 commanders in 2022. Number two on the list. You know who the final two are. So now it's just a matter of who's two and who's one. I put Terry McLaurin at number two. You know, he only had 77 catches. It's not his fault. I understand that. You know, that's the same number of catches as he had last year.

It's the 25th spot in the league in receptions, 25th in the league with 77 receptions. That's not very high. He was 10th in the league in yards with 1191. I get it. On a lot of other teams, he would have put up much bigger numbers. And he'd be considered truly elite among the upper end, you know, of the upper team. of receivers. I think he's in that upper tier of receivers, but I think most people would probably say,

if your upper tier is your top 10, he's at the low end of that. You know, he's behind Justin Jefferson and A.J. Brown and C.D. Lamb on the Pro Bowl roster, but he made the Pro Bowl roster. I'll tell you, if you really look at the NFC receivers, I mean, in terms of production, how did Amman Rae St. Brown not make the Pro Bowl? He had 106 catches. He had 29 more catches than Terry did. Tyler Lockett, Big Year. Chris Godwin, big year. But, like I said about Tress Way, this goes to show you what some of his peers think of him,

because they recognize what Terry McLorne is as a player, and they recognize the numbers would be much better on a team that could really throw the football. Terry McClure, number two on the list, which leaves John Allen. coming in at number one on my list. He was the linchpin of a defense that grew this year into a top 10 defense in the NFL. I mean, per the DVOA number, football outsiders, ninth best defense in the NFL. He was outstanding against the run like Duran Payne. Much of the time, he was impossible to block one-on-one, seven and a half sacks, two force

fumbles, had the interception, remember in the Chicago game, ninth in the league in TFL's, tackles for loss with 16, despite the fact that he missed the last game and a half. I just think he is high IQ. He's strong as an ox. He's impossible to block one-on-one. He's a leader. He's a starter in the Pro Bowl. I think he was the best player on the team this year.

And it's tough. I mean, to me, Alan, McLorn, and Payne this year were the three best players on the team. I do think that a guy like Jahan Dotson would have been much higher had he played all 17 games, certainly if they had a quarterback, if they had better quarterback play. I think Brian Robinson Jr. could have been on this list had he played all 17 games. But John Allen isn't just the best player on the team, in my opinion. I think he is the most respected player on the team. I think he's a tough, old school guy.

and I think Terry, you know, is very well respected as well. Trust me, these are the two, you know, Leno is up there. There's three or four guys that are highly respected inside that locker room when you talk to people who are very familiar with this situation. John is a grown man and he's a grown up. I just love, and I know Doc and I, you know, talked about it. And, you know, Doc referred to Ron Rivera as a social worker. to me, the bottom line is Ron has changed very much the culture in that locker room.

Now, you know, when we look at the top, you know, four players that I just listed on this team, all four were acquired by the previous group. But they're all kept and extended by this group. So there it is. There's your, there's my top 10 list for the commanders this year for players. Again, number 10 was Dotson, 9, Forest, eight Gibson, seven Robinson Jr., six sweat, five curl, four trestway, three Duran Payne, two Terry McClure and one John Allen. Who would I leave off the list? I left Curtis Samuel

off the list. I left Kendall Fuller off the list. I left Benjamin St. Juice, who I think is an outstanding corner off the list. I think that's kind of it in terms of the players that I left off the list that you could have considered. I left Jeremy Reeves off the list. He's going to the Pro Bowl as a special teamer. I certainly could have considered Reeves. But that's the list I came up with. No offensive linemen really were considered.

None of them had a great year. None of them, you know, were consistent enough. Obviously none of the quarterbacks. And, you know, Jamie Davis, not top 10. But I think if you got to, you know, the top 15 to 20 players, you could start to make an argument for Jamie Davis in the season that he had. And I bet you if Cole Holcomb comes back and plays a whole season, we're going to think very highly of Cole Holcomb.

But anyway, that's my list. 2022. In the books. Now we're into the offseason. Can't wait for the playoff games coming up over the weekend. Love the NFL playoffs. And I'll get much more into those games. next two days. Kooley will join me on Friday. Tommy will be with me tomorrow. Have a great day.

Back tomorrow.