The Kevin Sheehan Show - Turner's Admission

Episode Date: December 22, 2022

Kevin and Thom opened with Scott Turner's admission that Brian Robinson Jr. should've gotten more carries on Sunday night in the loss to the Giants. They talked about Washington's well-done and emotional Pro Bowl video where Ron Rivera broke the news to Tress Way, Jon Allen, Terry McLauren, and Jeremy Reaves that they had made it. What will the overall feeling about this season be if it falls short of the playoffs? The boys discussed. Thom's Christmas plans, what VSG means, and some local TV numbers for Commanders' games.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show is Kevin. Yeah, he was doing really well. I mean, you know, 12 carries. You look at it and you say, man, we really should have given him the ball more than that. You know, we've been on the field a lot and we've had a lot more plays. You know, we had 58 plays, I think.

Some of the situations in the game at the end there, especially we're kind of in a two-minute-type mode. you know so when you look at it and you come out of there 26 past 26 runs 29 passes you know that's pretty balanced you know some of those you know because of brian and how he was running you know looking back at it yeah you you would have liked him to touch it more that was scott turner yesterday Tommy i was really interested in hearing what he would be asked and how he would answer some of the questions specifically for me, the biggest issue I had from Sunday nights game after the turnovers, which, you know, I emphasized and you felt the same way, Brian Robinson Jr. averaging seven and half yards per carry and only getting the ball 12 times. Well, upon further review, Scott feels like maybe, just maybe

we should have given him the ball a little bit more than that. You know, it's, I think it's rare to hear that. And I would bet you that. But Rivera probably said something to him because I think Rivera gives his coordinators a shitload of autonomy. I think there's a lot of autonomy there. And I think, you know, at the end of the game, and Ron looks at the stat sheet and he looks at it and says, well, how did we get away from that? You know, sometimes it's not so easy. Sometimes it's, well, we didn't have the ball. You know, our defense couldn't get off the field, which, by the way, was the case during a very long drive in the first half.

you know, an eight-minute drive in the first half. Sometimes it's... 97 yards, yes. Sometimes it's we turn the ball over too much and our drives were shortened. Or, you know, we had too many penalties so we were in first and 20 or second and 20. And, you know, you can't hand the ball off in those situations. And sometimes the answers are... But you didn't hear that from him.

Well, because it wasn't true. He didn't get up there and say he was a victim of circumstance. No. And I think... Okay. And I think that's one of the reasons. on Monday, I went through to make sure, and whenever, because I really, I think I mentioned this on Monday, and I forget if I mentioned it to you on Tuesday. I'll never forget, and I think it was Sonny that was probably on with both of us, but it could have been a pregame show that I did

with Sonny. And Sonny just said, we never know what we think we know when we criticize play calling. He said, there's just so much more to it. This is my thing. Yeah. This is my thing with all sports. this is what I argue about baseball all the time. We don't know the conversations that are taking place to context, and we'll never know them. But, you know, Ron is one of the things, and this kind of drives you crazy sometimes, I know,

but Ron is pretty wordy in his explanations and his discussion. Yes, he is. And I think he's very good for journalists. I think he tries to accommodate them when, really, I'm sure you and maybe other people don't think he really should. as much as possible. So it's not surprising that he would encourage, or at least I'll be okay with his coordinators doing that. Now, the defensive guy is not very worthy.

He doesn't even want to talk about last week. No. You know, by the time he gets to reporters on Thursday, last week is a memory, and he doesn't want to discuss it. He literally says that's last week. I don't want to talk about it. In your experience, coaches, managers who are super wordy, have you found them to be successful coaches and managers or unsuccessful

more often than not? Successful because it means they have a level of confidence and they don't have a level of fear. You know, the guys who are worried about losing their jobs with every word they say, the team can smell that fear. Okay. You think they smell it with Belichick? You think they smell it with Belichick? No, he just had, no, that's contempt. That's different than fear. Okay.

The Belichick has contempt. Well, I'm not asking you about motive. I'm not asking you about whether or not the less wordy coaches and managers are more successful or less successful. I mean, if you go through, like Joe Gibbs was not super wordy. You know, he was very, he was very guarded, very, very. But he was not abrupt. He was not abrupt. I'm not saying abrupt.

I'm just saying very guarded in terms of the information and not really. You use the word accommodating journalists. Gibbs didn't accommodate journalists. Belichick certainly doesn't accommodate journalists. Tom Landry didn't accommodate journalists. I mean, Chuck Noel probably didn't accommodate journalists. Parcell's probably. You know what?

What? You know what? You know who did? Mike Leach did. Yes, he did. Mike Leach? Right. Okay.

But that was for a different reason. That was to be entertaining, talking about Halloween candy. No, I think that Ron has a certain level of trust and confidence. And he may say the wrong thing at time. But I don't, it doesn't surprise me that Scott, and Scott growing up in the game with North Turner, who I mean, Norv. you know, he used to drive fans nuts, but reporters like Norv, okay, because he pretty much would give them a good explanation as to what was going on. So it doesn't surprise me that Scott is that way.

I think sometimes... You know, we almost look at him when they walk by each other, you know, when they meet with reporters. I don't know how it happened. What took you so long? Real must look at him and think, you know, my God, you're looking at him. Why don't you just Shut up. Why did yours take so long? Mine was over in four minutes.

I think some coaches, though, and I'm not suggesting that this is Ron or even Scott, I think some coaches end up talking so much because they're being defensive. And they're trying to give a side to sort of refute what the narrative is about them. But in this particular case, I mean, going back to, you know, the play calling, there just wasn't much of a reason why you wouldn't have given it to him.

All of the reasons suggested you should have kept giving it to him. So at least he recognizes it. And, you know, it's funny, I do like Scott Turner. I think Scott Turner is a competent offensive coordinator. Sorry, Pauley. I do. I mean, it seems like our fan base, for whatever reason, just gets on these unbelievable, you know, sort of anti-coordinator, you know,

rants in positions. They all hated Kyle because, of course, it was nepotism. They couldn't stand Sean McVeigh. You know, it's been one after another. Like, for whatever reason, we leave the head coaches alone. I'm not saying we do that because people are all after, they've been after Rivera and Gruden and Shanahan and Zorn and the whole thing. But, man, I mean, the coordinators, the offensive coordinators in particular,

have taken a pounding in every single. person in this town that ripped all of the previous coordinators was dead wrong, dead wrong. I mean, the anti-Kyle, you remember, we were doing a show together. I remember people on our air saying, this guy is in way over his head. There's only one reason he has the job. One reason. Yep, I remember that. And I'm like, wait a minute. After he had turned Matt Schaubb, it's a pro ball quarterback in Houston. That's what I kept saying during that whole time. I'm like, seriously, did you see what he did with Matt Schaub in Houston?

Yes. Like everybody. And what did Matt Schaub do after that? Yeah. And, you know, people thought the same about Sean McVeigh. I mean, you know, out of all of the future head coaches that were in the building, the one that I wasn't so sure about was Kevin O'Connell. I never was blown away. Sean, like I had enough conversations with Sean to know what Cooley had said on the air when Sean was the tight ends coach.

And that is if anybody interviews him, he's going to be a head coach within a week, within a day after he's hired. I mean, Cooley's like, he suggested maybe we should hire Sean now and make Jay Gruden the offensive coordinator when Jay was the head coach. and Kyle always was obvious to me. Matt Lafleur wasn't obvious to me at all. Mike McDaniel, you know, I've told everybody about that conversation that we had outside our studio, and he was just such a bright guy, but, you know, Mike was the one that said he's going to be the head coach,

but, you know, we couldn't have seen that. COC, though, Kevin O'Connell was never, look, remember, he didn't get the job as the offensive coordinator from Ron. Ron didn't want to keep him on as the coordinator. And so Sean ended up hiring him. And I don't think Kevin O'Connell was in line to be a head coach anytime soon until the Rams won the Super Bowl last year. You know, that's what did it more than anything else.

Probably. He's doing a great job. He's done a pretty good job in Minnesota. Excellent job. Because they're doing it with smoke and mirrors and a great quarterback. An outstanding quarterback. A pro bowl quarterback. A pro bowl quarterback.

back. I'm excited for the pro bowl stories for Washington, and I want to get to that in a minute because the video that the team put out was outstanding, but just one last thing on Scott Turner. You know, I think he is ready to, you know, I think they're going to, I think they're going to yank Heineke at the first sign of trouble on Saturday, especially if they're down. I believe they think Wence is ready to go, that he's far along and underkey. understanding the offense. And, you know, he said some nice things about Carson Wentz, you know, yesterday during his presser. I just hope that on in the game Sunday, Saturday, he rolls out everything he's got with Taylor. Give him every single chance to succeed. And I think that means

Taylor's got to become a significant part of their run game on Saturday or they're not going to have a chance. But, okay, you don't think that, look, I mean, that they have to see what we see. I know they see a lot of stuff that we don't see, but they have to see that we see, and what we see in the sense that Carson Wentz would be a sacrificial lamb. And let's say they're going to put Carson Wentz in the game if they're behind, all right? So they're going to already be behind. So they're already going to have to throw the ball.

And the 49ers pass rush is going to know that. and he would be a sacrificial win. It'd be like putting Alex Smith in against the Rams a few years ago. That's not a good comparison. It would be close. Alex couldn't move. Carson can move. Carson can move.

Carson went to bear. He could barely move. Carson is not. He's not going in the game because if they're behind, they're not putting, they're going to give Carson Wentz a full week to prepare as the starter against an easier opponent in Cleveland. Carson's a pro. He's not going to help them win against the 49 or Saturday. Carson's a pro.

Scott Turner said Carson's a pro. He's played a lot. It's just as long as whenever he was physically ready, I think he's ready to go if we need him. We have confidence in Carson if we need to play him, that he's going to be able to step in and go. He's not coming into game Saturday. I would say 60-40 he's not.

I think there's a 40% chance he does. 95-5. Okay. I'm at less than that. This idea, though, that he is like Alex Smith was on one leg is ridiculous. Now, is Carson as mobile as he was three years ago? No, and that was obvious this year early in the year. But people that are making them out and describing him as a statue, he's not that. He actually has more yards rushing per game than Taylor does this year.

That's because he has to avoid more sacks. Well, because the offensive line was really bad, and the defense wasn't very good early on, and they had to throw the football more. And he wasn't comfortable. The offensive line isn't any better. It's not that much better. Oh, okay. It's true. It's true. He's comfortable.

That's good. I'm glad he's comfortable now. Are you comfortable? I'm saying with the, I'm not comfortable right now, actually, with you. But there are a lot of different reasons for that. But I'm saying he's more comfortable with the playbook. I'm suggesting that he's more comfortable with the playbook. that was, you know, when I said to Logan Thomas, when I had him on the show two weeks ago,

I said, what is the big difference between Taylor Heineckee? And why do you guys love Taylor Heineke so much? What's the big difference? And he said, he just really knows the playbook. He's been in this system. It's a hard system to learn. He's been in it for so long, and he really knows it. And I said, well, was that the big issue with Carson? He said, I think it was, but Carson's really been coming along, you know, while Taylor's been playing. Logan Thomas being a former quarterback in sort of understanding the playbook, although he has not played well recently. Hell yeah. So what did you, for those of you that didn't see it, it doesn't make sense to play it because you have to see the video of it, really. That's what does it justice. But the commanders

put out on their social media account a video of Ron Rivera. guys walking in to Ron Rivera's office and Ron Rivera telling them that they were or into a coach's room and Ron Rivera telling them that they had made the Pro Bowl but Ron, you know, looking very serious like, you know, we got to talk. I got to tell you something. And it was Tressway and it was John Allen and it was Terry McLorn.

And then the most emotional part, and I have to admit, watching it, I thought it was really emotional and I thought it was well done was Jeremy. Reeves. Jeremy Reeves is the special teams pro bowler in the NFC. Terry McClorn is a backup receiver. John Allen is a starter. Trusway is a starter. And then Duran Payne was an alternate. Montez Sweat was a first alternate was Duran Payne. Second alternate was Montez Sweat. What did you think of the video? I thought it was as good as anything that they've done on social media all year long.

at least as good if that didn't touch it then you've got a heart of stone obviously that was a great video i watched it multiple times i retweeted it and it's it's the one the one of the best things they put out that i can remember period yeah ron should bring in all his players to cry in front of them that they should do this on a weekly basis well i then it would be a bit self-serving The Jeremy Reeves story is really incredible. And I saw it was, hold on, because I liked the tweet. Who tweeted it? Ross Tucker did.

And it really must have been. I mean, considering this is a training camp cut kind of guy through some of his career, to have gotten that news really must have been overwhelming for him. Here's the career. Here's the career. You ready? Ross Tucker tweeted it out. In May of 2018, he's signed as an undrafted free agent by Philadelphia. He's waived on September 1st, 2018. On September 12th, 2018, he signed to the practice squad here in Washington. And then I'm not going to give you every date, but I'm just going to read it to you. Then he's released from the practice squad, signed to the practice squad, signed to the active roster from the practice squad, waived, signed to the practice squad. waived. Signed to the practice squad. Signed to the active roster from the practice squad.

Waved. Signed to the practice squad. Signed to the active roster from the practice squad. Waved. Signed to the practice squad. Signed to the active roster from the practice squad. Return to the practice squad. Signed to the active roster from the practice squad. Return to the practice squad. Signed to the active roster from the practice squad. Now we're into 2022. Signed to the active roster from practice squad. Return to the practice squad. This was by the way, early in January, and then on January 8th, 2022, signed to the active roster from the practice squad. This is the example of the guy that is just for whatever reason, he's just not good enough, but at the same time, there's something about him that coaches love,

and they just don't want to get rid of him because they see something in him, but he went to South Alabama. He wasn't drafted. There's no pedigree, you know, and so that, That is really the story of incredible persistence from a guy. And to see him get that emotional, and I remember the story he lost his mother only about a year ago as well. That was phenomenal. And by the way, he has had a hell of a year.

I'll be honest with you, I was a bit surprised that he was a pro bowler. I didn't realize that he was on the verge of being a pro bowler. I think he's been outstanding on special teams, but I just haven't followed the special teams players. from throughout the NFC, so I didn't think about him as a potential pro bowler. But that was awesome. Really awesome. That was the best part of it. It really was.

And when he said, I'll run through a wall for you, coach. You got a root for that guy. Absolutely. Got a root for that guy. Yeah, he really was something. Remember the safety for Carolina that was available. Why am I blanking on his name? big time safety for Carolina.

He became available. He was sort of being blackballed a little bit by the league for, was it his vaccination stance or was it something else? I forget what here. Eric Reed. Eric Reed. Thank you. Eric Reed.

Thank you. And Ron basically said, you know, we'll sign you, but you've got to go on the practice squad. And he didn't want to do that. And then Ron said, well, I've got, and Ron said to reporters, I remember, I've got guys like Jeremy Reeves. who have been living on practice squad and then getting called up. We're trying to build a culture here, basically,

and I'm not going to bring somebody in and who hasn't proven it here and just put him right above somebody who's been earning it. And I think, you know, in watching that video, and I know I've said this before about Ron, and not everybody agrees, and I'm not talking about his coaching, I think he has a real ability to connect to young people in a football locker room and lead them and mentor them.

And I think there's a tremendous respect in Ron Rivera from players. I think you saw that when he got fired in Carolina, all the people that came out. And I think you saw that even in that video, just a glimpse of it. We've heard a lot about how well respected he is by that locker room. And his number one job when he came to Washington was to change the culture. Now, he's never going to be given the opportunity as long as Dan Snyder owns the team, and hopefully we're coming to that end to change the culture of the entire organization. But he has changed the culture of that locker room, you know, by the players he's selected

and by the players he's decided to move on from. And, you know, I was thinking about that a little bit this morning because, you know, one of the players he decided to move on from is one of those players that I don't think he should have moved on from. But it was a guy that was not bought in completely to Rivera and the organization. And that was Trent Williams, who they will face on Saturday. You know, he wanted a contract extension. And Ron said, I'm not giving anybody a contract extension until I get to know everybody. Remember his stance coming in in 2020? I'm not giving people contract extensions until I know what I have. I'm not taking anybody else's word for it.

You know, nobody that was here before me is going to convince me of anything until I see it myself. And Trent didn't think that that, you know, Trent had a problem with it. And Ron said, fine. If you're not all in with what we're doing, we will move you. Now, ultimately, they moved him for a third and fifth round pick to the 49ers. And that's where you just look at this organization and say, my God, if you had been more proactive, a year ago, you could have gotten a lot more. just like with cousins, et cetera. But, you know, one of the picks, I was looking at this this morning,

one of the picks turned out to be Benjamin St. Juice. The third round pick that they got from the 49ers for Trent Williams in 2021 was Benjamin St. Juice. The fifth rounder they got in 2020 was Keith Ishmael, the center, who, interestingly, Tommy, I was like, is he still on the practice squad? He is on a practice squad. He's on the 49ers practice squad.

So the player that Washington used, the pick that Washington used from the 49ers, the fifth rounder in 2020, the player they selected is now back with the 49ers on their practice squad. But anyway, the Jeremy Reeves part of that and him saying, I'd run through a brick wall for you coach. And the respect, the trestway part was great. You know, Terry was obviously not super surprised, nor should he have been that he's a pro bowler. Same with John. I'm a little upset that Duran Payne isn't a pro bowler, but first all, turn, it's pretty good. I think the real interesting thing will be, is John Allen going to be an all pro this year?

I think he's got a chance to be an all pro, and I hope he ends up. I think he does, absolutely. Getting that. Yes. 21 of the 44 NFC pro bowlers are from the NFC East, nearly half. What a year for the NFC East. Philly's got eight, Dallas has seven, Washington four, and the Giants have two. Pretty impressive.

Okay. I had a couple of other things for you, including we've got to get your pick, and we should talk about what you're doing for Christmas. I'll talk about that probably on tomorrow's show, but we'll get to all of that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky. Go to mybooky.orgie. use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and they'll match your first deposit dollar for dollar all the way up to

a thousand bucks. Tommy, I mentioned this on the podcast yesterday. And now the actual over-under number is moving up. But the Saints play the Browns on Saturday. Temperature is supposed to be 11 degrees with 30-mile-per-hour wins. And the total yesterday at my bookie was 31 and a half. And it would have been the lowest NFL over under number since 2008 and one of the lowest of all time. Actually, there were back in 1993, there were two games where the NFL total was 28. I can't even believe that. I mean, in 1993, I was betting football and I don't remember 28. But that number's up to 32 and a half right now. Meantime, the 49ers are down to seven. They're just a seven-point favorite over Washington.

Smell test will be on tomorrow's show, and there's no smell test pick for tonight's game, the Jacksonville Jet Game. But I think Washington looks like the right side. I really do. I think there's a chance Washington plays the 49ers much tougher than people think. The total's very low. It's 38. I mean, could we see a 20 to 16 kind of a game?

Maybe. I mean, this is going to be the best defense that Brock Purdy has faced since, he took over as the starting quarterback. So we'll see. Is Benjamin St. Juice playing? He is. He is. I mean, they missed him, obviously, in the Giants game. They did, no doubt.

So I think that this, I don't know, I have just a gut feel that this is going to be a much more competitive game than we think. And I think that what, I think the reason the line is coming down is that there's some sharp money on Washington and the sharp money would be there. because they think that this is the best defense that Brock Purdy has faced, and Brock Purdy was a third-string quarterback. It's amazing, isn't it, that they have a third-string quarterback, and nobody is really downgrading this team.

That's just how good the 49ers are everywhere, defensively running game and their talent. And by the way, the coach gets a hell of a lot of respect from odds makers. Yes. What's your pick on the game Sunday? Well, I like the 49ers. I like the 49ers to win 24 to 20. I think Washington is a good bet to the right side of this.

I think it will, not that they'll play them closer, but the overall score will be closer. I don't think it'll be an indication that the game was actually close. I think it will wind up 2420, San Francisco. I mean, it's really interesting because if Washington is a, able to pull off another stunner to beat basically two of the top three teams in the NFC record record with Philadelphia with Philadelphia right then I think I think there would be a lot of discussion about Washington look out if they make it they're the ones that have beaten the heavyweights in the conference

and I think there's a lot of people already that think that Washington would be a tough out you know I was thinking about this Tommy that you know all of the goodwill um that they've built up over this, you know, that run of six one and one, five one and one with Taylor, that is now five, two and one or six, two and one, if you consider the Chicago game, if somehow like they lose to the 49ers and then they lose one of the last two and they finish eight, eight, and one, and they miss the postseason, what will be the opinion of the team that for, you know, a month and a half anyway, people started to get excited about and thought was a pretty good team?

will it will it i think it'll be i think i think i think it'll be same old commanders i think it will i mean they'll look at the record and they'll say 500 ron rivera that's what they'll look at well 500 ron rivera would be the best record he's had if he goes eight eight and one since here so but what if but that i think i think they'll just think that this team on the rivera and they may be, is incapable of making the big leap. That may be true, but we won't know until he has a real quarterback. It would be interesting with respect to the narrative about how he always gets it together and they play really well late. If really what it came down to is he actually gets his team to play really well in the middle.

Because last year at 6 and 6, you know, they cratered. Now, a lot of that had to do with. injuries in COVID, et cetera. This year, though, it doesn't. And they're facing a daunting task, and then another one that won't be easy against Cleveland. And then Dallas, who knows what that game will be. But I think if it goes south here, like they lose to the Niners and they lose one of the other two and they finish eight, eight and one, and they miss the postseason, I think it's going to be pretty harsh as an overall evaluation. And I think everybody's going to point to the Giants and they're going to say you had back-to-back games against a team that you've just got

better players then and you came out of that, you know, 0-1-1 and that was your season right there. You know, losing to the 49ers is, you know, expected. A home game against Cleveland on January 1st is going to be a game that most people are going to expect Washington to win. Now, I mentioned yesterday at my bookie, it's two and a half. Washington's a two and a half point favorite in the look-ahead line with Cleveland. So it's not like a lock that they're going to beat the Browns. The Browns have good players, and they're still in the playoff race as well. If they beat the Saints, they'll come here with something to play for on New Year's Day. But it would be interesting. And they have a quarterback who you have to assume is becoming more familiar with playing

again into Sean Watson and getting a little bit better every week. Right. So I think for me, if they don't make the postseason and let's just say they lose two out of the final three, which would be losing three out of the final four and throw in the tie out of the last five games, I still think I would get to the end of that and feel differently about, say, eight, eight, and one and no playoff than I thought I would feel before the season began. And I'll explain. I think I'm much more convinced that their players are pretty good players, that they have, you know, their defense really became the defense we thought it was going to become last year. And the players in particular, and of course, you know, Duran Payne's a big part of it.

And so we'll see what happens in the offseason. But they have good players on defense, good young players on defense. They have exceptional skill position players on offense, including, you know, their. third round pick in Brian Robinson, Jr., who looks so much more like a keeper now than he did early on. And there are obvious reasons for that. He's gotten healthier and he's getting better. So, you know, if they don't make the playoffs, I think that people will be harsh on the finish. But at the same time, I think I'll walk away from it thinking it's true, but they played a lot of these 50-50 games.

When they were winning these games, they were all kind of coin-fifery. games. But overall, I think they've got good players, and they just have to find a quarterback. And if they find a quarterback, they've got a chance to be a pretty good team. That's a big ask, understood, and it's a hard thing to accomplish. But I think that they're much closer than they've been in a while. The question is, then, you're the new owner. Do you fire the coach? No. but you have a guy that you've eyed up for a while now that you want to be your coach tell me who it is i don't know who it is okay i'm just saying who it is right i'm just saying

you're the new owner you've got a team that has studied this and they picked out the next hot young offensive coordinator uh and you've got a defensive coach as your head coach uh in an offensive although you might not think that this year, you wouldn't fire on. I mean, I understand what you're saying, but I need to know who that person is. If you're telling me that the new owner is going to hire Sean Payton and then they're going to trade for Aaron Rogers,

I'm all in. I'm all in for that. But if you're telling me it's the hot new coach and it's another guy that they like his, general manager and they're going to start from scratch, it's their prerogative, and I'm going to be all on board because the new owner is going to be a total game changer for a lot of us. But I do think you could do a lot worse than Ron Rivera and staff. You know, I think that there's been a culture change with the football operation. I'm not suggesting that I think he's, you know, the right coach to

lead them to a five to 10 year run of, you know, Super Bowl contention and divisions won and playoff games won. But from where they were, I think they've made progress with him. And so, you know, for now, it really doesn't matter anyway, more likely than not Tommy, because the new owner, when they take over, it's going to be too late to swap out coaching staffs and even front offices. So I think he's good for 2023. And in some ways, I think he's earned it. You know, he said this third year was going to be the big year, like this is the year we start, you know, a contender, and they still are a contender for a playoff spot, but they're really not a contender to do a lot when they get there.

But I think they are closer than they've been in a long, long time from a football player in roster standpoint. Anyway, I want to find out what you're doing for Christmas. I also have some television ratings numbers for Washington games on television here locally. We've talked about that a little bit, but we hadn't seen any numbers, but they're out now. Share that with you and everybody else when we come back right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This final segment of the show brought to you by Window Nation. Window Nation's giving you an opportunity right now to buy new windows, pay half price, because you'll get two free

windows with every two you buy, and they're going to give you zero percent interest for five full years on new windows. That's no interest payments for 60 months in addition to the buy to get too free. Temperatures, as we know, are going to be plummeting tomorrow. Energy costs are going to be higher than they've been forever, really, in our lifetime. Wind donation will give you new windows that will help you save big time money and also upgrade the look and feel of your home. If you've been thinking about new windows, call Window Nation 86690 Nation. mention my name, go to windownation.com. They'll give you a free estimate, and then you can benefit from buy-to get-to-free

and zero percent interest for five full years on new windows. Again, that's 86690 Nation and windownation.com. So, Tommy, I just saw this, and I was just going to share this with everybody real quickly, because I had not seen any television ratings numbers, local numbers, for the Skins games this year. And our friend Eric on Twitter sent this tweet out, and it was from sports TV ratings. They put out all the local team market numbers.

And this was through week 14. So this would have been through last week. Give you an idea of the top five. Buffalo did a 43.1 rating for all of their games on TV in the Buffalo market. Kansas City is at a 42.1. The Packers are at a 33.6. The Saints are to 33.6. Pittsburgh came in fifth with a 32.4.

Washington is 24th out of 32 teams with a 13.6 average rating on local television numbers. The share number is not as bad. It's a 40. That's 17th overall in the league. But the rating at 13.6, give you an idea. 10 years ago, that number would be 23.6, 15 years ago it would have been 28.6. 20 years ago, it would have been in the 30s. All right. The playoff game that they had against Seattle, remember, after the 2012 season, did a 50 rating locally. 50. The game against Green Bay in the postseason did like a 39 rating, 38 ratings, something like that. Washington hasn't seen a number approaching. anything resembling that in years, and the 13.6 overall as a local TV rating is really, really low for a team with its kind of history in this kind of a market, just not very good. So while, you know,

we all talk incessantly about the team here, not as many people are watching the games, and we certainly know not as many people are going to the games as they used to either. All right. let's finish this thing up. What are you doing for Christmas? Well, we'll be heading up to Philadelphia to one of my sister-in-law's house in West Philly. And we usually stay overnight in a hotel in downtown Philly. You do? We stay in a nice hotel overnight and come back the next day because, you know, I don't like to drive back like at 9 o'clock at night on Christmas night from Philadelphia. really back home.

And it'll be a big gathering. You know, my wife's family and seven brothers and sisters. It'll be a big gathering. So I'm looking forward to it. And I'm on the Miramar Beach countdown after that. That's right. That's coming soon. When do you head to Florida?

December 31st. We get in the car. We get there January 1st. There you go. driving on down to Miramar Beach. That'll be fun. That's right. God, I could go for some warm weather.

You know who I might see down there? Who's that? Who do Jack? Jack Dale Rio. Apparently, he has a house down there. Well, you won't see him down there in early January and, you know. No, but eventually. Eventually.

I might run into Jack in a bar or something like that. And what would you say to Jack? Would you go up in the Young Republicans Club meeting? I don't know. Who knows? I don't think it would be the young Republicans meeting. Would you go up and say hello to him? No, I wouldn't do that.

Why? Why would I do that? I don't know. Introduce yourself. Cover the team for the Washington Times? No, I wouldn't do that. Not because I'm afraid. I just think he could care less and it would be intrusive.

Okay. Any thoughts on Frank? Although Jack Dale Rio can be a pretty scary guy from what I've heard. Any thoughts on Frank? Franco Harris? Look, I grew up in the 70s really watching pro football, and the Steelers were it. And it's so funny, because when I first started watching football in the 60s, I mean, the Steelers had a 40-year record of mediocrity. They were terrible, you know?

And they became the gold standard in the 70s, with rosters full. of Hall famers. And Franco Harris was one of them. I remember Franco Harris when he played in the same backfield with Lydell Mitchell of Penn State. I mean, I remember watching those teams, those Joe Paterno teams. That was a remarkable backfield. And I don't have a Frank O'Harris story. A lot of people do. And a lot of people have been telling them online and they're all good. He seemed like a very smart, warm guy. He was an interesting runner because, he used to get criticized for not taking punishment, for running out of bounds, for not being a Jim Brown-like punishing runner?

I'm glad you brought that up, because I talked a lot about the Immaculate Reception game in the wake of Franco Harris's death, which I was planning on doing anyway because it's the 50-year anniversary of that game tomorrow, and they're going to remember that game on Christmas Eve, and that's why the Steelers' Raiders were scheduled for that night. And I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday afternoon who listened to me on the podcast and he said, you remember what they used to say about Franco, right? And I said, yeah, he ran out of bounds a lot. He didn't want to take hits.

Sometimes he'd put his hand up and say, I'm running out of bounds. And I remember there were backs like Walter Payton who criticized Franco Harris for that. But he was a hell of a back. He was an excellent running back. Great vision. By the way, great hands out of the best. backfield. He was a great back, but Tommy... He did 12,000 yards rushing. I know. I know he did. I mean, he's still in the top 15 in NFL history in rushing arts. So yeah, I mean,

because he was a... He was not stupid enough that he was dribbling his food in old age because he took so many hits. No, I'm not going to criticize him for that. Well, I mean, we don't know. I don't know why he passed away at the age of 72. It certainly seemed like it was sudden. But anyway, no, he was a great back, but I'm glad you remembered that because I was going to mention that that was the criticism of him, especially from other great backs. But Tommy, you mentioned the Hall of Famers, and I went through the list. There were 13 players who played in the Immaculate Reception game that eventually played in the Hall of Fame. And there were seven others, including Chuck and old John Madden, Art Rooney, and Al Davis, who were also in the stadium for

working on on for both of those teams that ended up in the Hall of Fame what what what a a game and what met memories of those two teams that you know the Steelers that was the beginning they would end up having all of these other Hall of Famers that would join them and join them in the coming years like Swan and Stallworth and Shell and Dungey and Lambert and Webster the Raiders by the way had Blanda stabler blitnikoff Otto shell upshaw Willie Brown, and Cliff Branch was a punt returner on that team, and he would eventually make the Hall of Fame. Actually, just recently as part of the senior committee entrant into the Hall of of Fame. But anyway, all right, what else you got?

Why does football team so much better back then? It's just a kid. Well, as a child. I can't explain that. As a child of the 70s, I remember so many of those games. And for me, too, the reason I think football became so important to me is because George Allen was the coach and the Redskins were great. If I had grown up with the Redskins being terrible, like my kids have, I wonder if I would have ever loved football as much as I loved football. I mean, George Allen's 71 team is the first team. I remember the 72 playoff game. Tommy, I mentioned this yesterday. The Immaculate Reception game was the Saturday early game. The late game was the game in which Stauback brought the Cowboys back from 2813. down in the final few minutes to beat the 49ers at Candlestick, which was a very memorable playoff game. And then the following week, and I don't know if you remember this, Pittsburgh

hosted the AFC championship game against the undefeated dolphins. Imagine, and this was what it was back then, you didn't earn home field with the best record. It was a rotating divisional thing. And that year, it was the AFC Central's turn to host. the championship game. So the 14 and O'Dolphins played a road game in the championship game to get to the Super Bowl, which is nuts. And they won, they won a close game against the Steelers and then beat the Redskins in the Super Bowl. But I think that was the last year of the rotation of divisions for the championship game. Yeah, go ahead. One thing, I'm looking at the list of all-time rushers, and I guess I didn't realize this. Warwick Dunn, it's 23rd on the list of all-time rushers.

I knew he was a great, a terrific back, but I didn't realize he gained over 10,000 yards rushing. Work done. He was 5'9, I weighed 187 pounds. Why did you hone in on Work Dunn? What made you do that? Because his name popped up on the list. He's 23rd on the list of,

all-time rushers, and I didn't, I didn't expect to see that. I knew he was a good back. I figured he had 70,000 yards rushing, but he's in the top 25 of an NFL history, and he was, he was 5'4-9 and not even 200 pounds. Where's Rigo? He's got to be the smallest guy in the list. I don't have the list up. I'm pulling it up right now, but where's Rigo on the list? Is he still, like, in the top 11 or 12? I don't think he's in the top 11 or 12. He's not. He might be. Here it is. Where is Rigo? Rigo's 19th.

You know, for a long time, so who's passed him? Fred Taylor. Well, Franco's passed. Well, Franco would have passed him a long time ago, obviously. I'm looking for Frank Gore. By the way, Frank Gore's son set the bowl game record with like 340 yards rushing last weekend in a bowl game. Frank Gore, Adrian Peterson. Bettus, Falk, James, Fred Taylor, these are the guys that have passed them more recently.

Okay, like in this century. Because Rigo, when he retired, I think, was still like top 10 or top 12 all time. Yeah, he was top 10, I think. Yeah. God, looking at this list, I mean, you picked out Warwick Dunn. Like, I don't know. I don't think I would have ever put that Fred Taylor was number 17 on the all-time rushing list. That's a good point.

I mean, Curtis Martin, he was, he was, invisible Jacksonville. Curtis Martin was always the one, because at one point he was like third on the list, third or fourth on the list, and Peterson passed him, and Frank Gore passed him. And Curtis Martin, to me, with the great, Emmett Smith, you know, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, you know, Dorset and Brown, etc. Never passed the eye test as much as those guys, but man, did he accumulate some yardage over the years? And he's in the Hall of Fame.

I mean, he was a really good back, but I never, I'll tell you, I never thought Bettis was, I don't think Bettis to me during his career. I know he is eighth. I'm looking at it right now on the all-time list. I never felt like Bettis was like an obvious Hall of Famer. I think you and I had that argument many years ago, or maybe I had it with somebody else. I always did. Jim Brown is 11th on the list, and he hasn't played football in almost 60 years.

And he also only played for nine seasons. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right, Tommy. Merry Christmas to you and Liz and the family have fun. You know, if you stayed in town, we could have just gone down to Shelley's Christmas Eve and hung out and had a cigar. are eating some of that great food, had a couple of cocktails and celebrated it together. Too bad we didn't do that. You know, that would have been great. It sounds tempting at this point. Listen,

if you're still out there, if you're out there rushing around for a Christmas present for your significant other, and I'm not excluding females at this as well, but for your husband or your boyfriend or your son, Shelley's back room. is a great option. They sell gift cards that you can sell. And if you want to go in and actually buy a couple of cigars, they've got a great selection of cigars. Some of the top cigars rated by cigar aficionado. Like they have the Ashton, VSG-Robusto at Shelly. Do you know what VSG stands for? I actually don't. I'm not a cigar guy, as you know. So I don't, what does VSG stand for? I don't know.

virgin sun grown and what does that mean doesn't that sound exciting it does virgin sun grown it sounds exciting for some if that's your thing but what does that mean when it comes to cigars I'm not sure but it sounds interesting it sounds interesting yes

I would take anything that's virgin sun grown okay because I just I just googled VSG and I got vertical sleeve gastrectomy surgery. So that's a little bit different, I think, than what we're talking about with cigars. Yes. Okay. Yes, that's different.

They also have the Cohiba Blue Churchill. They've got the Grand Marnier torpedo. Is that Roryo? Are those VSG? No, they're not. Okay. Not every cigar is virgin sun-grown. I would imagine not.

That doesn't make. So I'm just pointing out, you can walk in a show. and say, I want to buy a handful of cigars for my guy, and they'll help you pick out a great selection. Shelley's back room, 1331 F Street, Northwest, in the district.

I can only imagine what's on the holiday menu. It's a great spot, too, in a great part of town. All right, Merry Christmas to you and the family. We will talk on Tuesday following a long holiday weekend. Merry Christmas to you and everybody out there, boss.

I'll be back tomorrow with Cool. Emily.