The Kevin Sheehan Show - Tush Push Lives + John Wall

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

Kevin opened with news on Terry McLaurin, the announcement that Washington will be featured on HBO's Hard Knocks next year, and the "Tush Push" staying alive...barely. John Wall joined Kevin on the show to talk about his 5-time NBA All-Star career in Washington and a lot more including his thoughts on the two NBA conference championship series. Champions Tour and local golf legend Fred Funk jumped on to talk about the Senior PGA Championship which starts tomorrow at Congressional Country Club in Bethesda.  Goldbelly.com, code sheehan, for free shipping and 20% off your first order of food from around the US.  Go To WindowNation.com. Buy 4 windows, get 4 free!Betting on sports? Go to mybookie.ag. Use code KEVINDC for a bonus!  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. On the show with me today, John Wall. It's been a long time since I've had John Wall on the show. I don't think I've ever had him on the podcast.

Maybe once very early on. Had him on radio several times during his Wizards run. But John Wall, five-time Wizards All-Star in the next segment. The show's presenting sponsor is always Windonation. 86690 Nation, Windonation.com, if you need new windows. Golf fans, the senior PGA Championship gets underway tomorrow at Congressional. Fred Funk will jump on with me for about 15 minutes at the end of the show to talk senior PGA golf and a little bit about Fred's career before he became a PGA championship.

Champions Tour member. Plenty of football to start with. Man, it was a busy day. Football-wise, the owner's meetings in Minneapolis did produce a vote on the Tush Push. And for now, the Tush Push lives on. But it was close to dying earlier today. And there was a ton of tension surrounding this vote, which has just been reported on.

I will get to that shortly, but two other football things to get to before we talk Tush-push and owners meetings today in Minneapolis. The first is this. I saw this just before I started to record the podcast, Jordan Schultz from the Schultz report reporting that all-pro wide receiver Terry McLaurin was not at practice today as off-season workouts continue. He had been a full participant previously and is entering the final year of his contract. So I immediately thought to myself, wait a minute, there's nothing going on right now in Ashburn. There's no practices in Ashburn.

There are voluntary workouts, and Terry apparently has been present for all of those, but wasn't today. But the way that the tweet read that he was not a... practice today as off-season workouts continue. There wasn't really a practice. The OTA days for the team actually start late next week and continue into early June before the off-season, you know, pre-training camp at the end of July, concludes with a veteran mini-camp June 10th through 12th. So when I read that, I'm like, wait a minute, what am I missing here? Look, there are workouts, players are showing up. I have no idea why Terry missed, you know, these voluntary off-season workouts. I certainly would not sweat it at all. You know, if Terry didn't show up for legitimate

practices, you know, OTAs and mini-camp, I wouldn't sweat that. Remember, before he signed his big deal, you know, a few years ago, the $68 million-plus deal, he missed a couple of things, as he should have. He shouldn't have been putting himself at risk with contract negotiations ongoing. I am assuming, and I think it's a safe assumption, that with one year left on his deal, Washington is going to sign him to a contract extension. Now, at age 30, going into age 31 in 2026, when that contract extension would kick in, it's not going to be a top three or top five wide receiver contract, not at his age, but he's going to get paid, and he deserves to get paid. And I can't imagine them getting to the start of training camp without a contract either

having gotten done, an extension having gotten done, or being on the verge of getting done. But if you've seen this report, it's not an alarming report. There's no holdout going on. These are voluntary things. Terry missed some of those days prior to signing the last big deal. And it wouldn't surprise me if Terry posts for some of these OTAs and even veteran mini-camp, but doesn't necessarily participate in anything that could potentially get him hurt. All right, that was one thing I wanted to touch on before getting to the tush push.

The other thing is, Hard Knocks, HBO style, has selected the Buffalo Bills for training camp, but for in-season, it's the NFC East in December. So Washington will make its first ever appearance on Hard Knocks on HBO as part of in season with the NFC East, that will be a December product. Keep in mind, Washington plays four of its six division games in December. It finishes with the Giants, Eagles, Cowboys, Eagles. But they're going to do an HBO hard knocks with all four of the NFC East teams. I really hope that when that show airs, that it's not for our team anything other than,

wow, what a season Washington is having. You know, at that point you get to December and you've got, you know, what, at that point, five, six games left going into January. You know, let's just hope there's something, you know, in the neighborhood of like eight and four or nine. and three and very much in the race for the division title and even a number one seat in the NFC playoffs. Let's hope we don't get there and there have been mass injuries and the season flipped the other way and there's all sorts of controversy raining down on the franchise. I feel like the hard knocks that we would have loved to have seen and it would have been

super entertaining and super inside, I would hope. you know, hard knocks doesn't give you everything. But during all of the shenanigans days with Snyder and investigations and hearings and the whole thing, that would have been actually pretty entertaining. This, I hope, is just lots of happiness. Lots of, wow, we just smoked the Giants, 35 to 10. Now we're getting ready for the first showdown with the Eagles as a, you know, 12. and two football team.

Hard knocks, Washington, Dallas, Philly, and the Giants, hard knocks in season with the NFC East. The training camp summer HBO Hard Knocks will be with the Buffalo Bills. All right, let's get to the big news of the day. The owners voted against banning the tush push. Remember, it wasn't just the tush push.

It was also any sort of assisted ball carrier play, pushing, pulling, lifting, you know, anybody with the ball in the field of play. That was part of Green Bay's proposal to the league, which I had Mark Maskey from the Washington Post on the show, radio show on Monday. and he thought that the tush push was a bit of a coin flip. He did not think that the playoff seating proposal by the Lions would pass, and in fact, it was actually pulled back by the Lions. The owners did not even vote on the seating proposal, so the normal seating for the NFL playoffs, the four division winners seated one through four,

and then the next best three records being seated five through seven will continue for the time. Being Maski told me the other day, he thinks if there is a change to the playoff format, that it would happen in conjunction with the launch of an 18 game schedule, which we could be two to three years away from, probably two years away from, if it happens. So that did not even get voted on. The push push was the big deal. And, you know, Masky told me he thought it was a coin flip. I know that there were other analysts and reporters and columnists that really thought it had a very good chance of passing.

The ban on the tush push had a very good chance of passing. It did not. It required three quarters or 75 percent of the owners to vote for the ban, and that means 24 needed to vote for the ban. and that means 24 needed to vote for the ban, and only 22 voted for the ban. So they were two votes short. The teams that voted against the ban, that's a shorter list to give you, the Eagles, of course, the Ravens, Browns, lions, jags, dolphins, patriots, saints, jets, and Titans. So that means Washington voted for the ban, as did the Cowboys, the Giants,

and every NFC team minus the Lions and the Saints. Interestingly, the 10 teams that did not vote to ban the Tush Push, only two of them were NFC teams, and none of the teams other than the Lions that voted against the ban have the Eagles on the schedule this year. Only the Lions have the Eagles on the schedule, and they voted against the ban. I don't like it.

I wanted the ban. I wanted not just the tush push ban, but I wanted the pushing of a ball carrier in the field of play. I'm kind of sick of seeing the guy get held up and whistles just about to blow as he's six yards short of the goal line, and then here come multiple offensive linemen to push him, if not carry him into the end zone. But it did not pass.

The ban did not pass. So apparently there was major tension. First of all, I can't remember the last time an NFL league meeting vote on a rule change got this much attention. but Seth Wickersham, investigative reporter Supreme, had this late this afternoon. I'm going to read straight from the story because it is interesting. Debate over the tush push led to a heated exchange between NFL owners and league executives Wednesday morning during the league meeting in Egan, Minnesota, multiple sources with firsthand knowledge told ESPN.

The discussion occurred during a part of the league meetings called a general session, which is attended by owners and team and league executives. Philadelphia owner Jeffrey Lurie made an impassioned speech in defense of the play. The Eagles and the NFL declined comment, but sources close to Lurie told ESPN that he had seen reports from earlier in the day that the Tush Push was going to be banned, and so he figured the odds of the play's survival were long. Toward the end of Lurie's speech, which lasted close to an hour, Lurie made an analogy, telling the room that regardless of whether the play was banned, it was a win-win for the Eagles, adding that it was, quote, like a wet dream for a teenage boy, closed quote,

to create a play that was so successful that the only way for it to be stopped was for it to be banned. Man, kind of arrogant. But Lurie, when he finished, was then chastised, according to Seth Wickersham, by executive vice president of football operations and former Philadelphia Eagle and former Washington Redskin as well. Troy Vincent, who told the owners that the wet dream comment was out of line for specifically saying it in front of women in the meeting. Lurie spoke for several more minutes after Troy Vincent called him out for that comment, adding that whoever voted to ban the play would be taking liability for putting quarterbacks at risk.

I don't get that one, to be honest with you. Adding that whoever voted to ban the play would be taking liability for putting quarterbacks at risk. You know, the play is not a dangerous play, but what is he saying? That the quarterbacks then would be running out on the perimeter or would be dropping back to throw and being put at more risk. I didn't follow that. Maybe you did. He then criticized Commissioner Roger Goodell and Troy Vincent for advocating the ban. Apparently Roger Goodell was in favor of this play being banned, adding that he had spoken to NFL chief medical officer Alan Sills at length

about the play. And yes, the play has been deemed to be not an unsafe play. Also speaking at this general session, Eagles assistant GM John Ferrari and former Eagles Star Center, Hall of Fame Center for that matter, Jason Kelsey, who showed up to advocate that owners vote against the ban. Both of them addressed the room. Kelsey said that he would return to the NFL if he could run 60 tush pushes a game. We'd love to see that, Jason. That would be thrilling to watch Philadelphia go up and down the field, tush pushing it. Jerry Jones asked a few questions. Buffalo Bills owner Terry Pagula, a critic of the tush push. Remember, Buffalo is the team that's number two in the league in Tush Pushes and really the only other team that runs it regularly. Terry Pagula, a critic of the Tush Push, said his team was good at the play and still supported banning it.

After an hour of Jeffrey Lurie speaking, 49ers owner Jed York spoke up and said, quote, how much more shit do we need to hear, closed quote. There were a few scattered laughs, but the room was quiet and tense, Seth Wickersham wrote. Goodell then adjourned to what they call a privilege session, which is attended by owners and top league executives, where they voted and the ban was not voted, not ratified, falling short by two votes of the 24. needed. Multiple league sources tell ESPN's Jeremy Fowler that Eagles officials walked out of the room not knowing what to expect and figured the voting could go either way. The Eagles set out today to address the notion that the tush push led to injuries with one source telling Fowler that there

was no data to suggest the play was unsafe. One of Kelsey's talking points, according to this report, to dispel the rumor that he retired because of the tush push. What else is in this Wickersham story? Jerry Jones pointed out potential issues with the play. Kelsey said he understood where he was coming from, where Jerry Jones was coming from. But Jerry Jones at one point said, you know, that he's been flip-flopping on this issue,

but added that after watching film with Jason Kelsey, he admits that the Eagles offensive line prowess is impressive. You didn't know that before, Jerry. There you go. I guess that, first of all, why was Kelsey allowed to address the owners? The general session was for owners and team and league executives. Jason Kelsey is an ESPN analyst. He's not a league executive, he's not a team executive, he's not an owner.

But somehow Jeffrey Lurie got him into the meeting. Look, I hate the play. I think it looks dumb. I think it looks like a rugby play. It's a rugby scrum. I think there's a pace of play issue. I think it's unfair to the defense because the defense isn't allowed to push themselves. Like, you know, I don't know necessarily.

whether or not that would help. I think the play is officiated poorly on a consistent basis. They miss defensive neutral zone infractions. They miss false starts and offensive off sides all the time. I don't like that Philadelphia can run that play twice in a row on third and two and then fourth and one. I think it's boring. I think Philadelphia, and I've said this many times before, is leaving a ton of yardage on the table by running this play.

With Saquan Barkley in that offensive line, maybe it's best for teams to hope they run the tush push and just get a first down rather than getting 50 in a touchdown on the play. But I'm not a fan of it, but we've watched it now for three years, and I now kind of wish in hindsight that they had in the NFC championship game if they had gone ahead and awarded the Eagles a touchdown. Because I think if they had awarded the Eagles a touchdown, that there would have been two more votes for this.

Maybe we'll get to see that during a regular season game. A bunch of trying to time the cadence, time the snap count, jumping over, trying to nail Jalen Hertz in the backfield, and we'll get the Eagles to have a touchdown awarded to them. That would be special. Real quickly before we get to John Wall, Shea Gilgis Alexander named NBA MVP. This is not a surprise by any stretch of the imagination. It's his first NBA MVP.

It's the third for the franchise because Westbrook won it and Kevin Durant won it as well. I'm looking for the voting on this. I'm sorry, I don't see it. I'm assuming Yokic was the runner-up. Uh, yeah. Meantime, Oklahoma City last night rallied from at one point a nine point first half deficit. They outscored Minnesota 70 to 40 in the second half. They are just so good defensively.

Uh, I think OKC is going to win the championship. I think Minnesota can win some games in this series and even make it a long series. But I think OKC wins the championship. And, you know, if Minnesota were to pull off the upset, then I would, you know, pick Minnesota to win. Knicks and Pacers tonight, I don't have a pick on the game. I kind of like the Pacers in the series. The Nats got a good win last night. Dylan Cruz had a home run, and then he walked, and then he left the game with lower back soreness.

I have not seen a report on the MRI results on Dylan Cruz yet. of two for three with a walk for James Wood as well. The Nats have won four out of their last five. So good for them. All right. Let's get to John Wall. Rate and review this show if you get a chance, especially on Apple and Spotify,

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No money down, no payments, and no interest. You won't start paying anything until the year 2027. 86690 Nation, Windonation.com. Joining me right now, and it's a thrill to have him, is John Wall. If you can believe it, we're coming up on 15 years since he was drafted number one overall by the Wizards, June of 2010, out of Kentucky. He spent a decade here the last few years, not healthy enough, that's for sure. But when he was healthy, he was a five-time All-Star. He was an all-NBA selection in 2017.

He was once an all NBA defensive team selection. And when you consider the franchise's lack of success over a long period of time, the John Wall years, especially when he was healthy, were the most successful competitive years since the Bullets teams of the 1970s. I mean, the Wizards with John Wall leading the way had a legitimate chance to get to the conference finals, you know, two to three times. It's great to have you back. You and I were talking a little bit before we started to record. It's been forever. You came on the radio show several times during those years in which the team was in big-time playoff games. Let's just start with how are you doing

and what have you been up to these days? I'm doing great, man. I'm just staying myself in shape, staying ready. Just in case I get a call back to the NBA, but I'm also doing sports analyst broadcasting stuff. I try to figure out what's next for me in my career and not just sit around to be lazy. And I also joined Ben a day. I mean, being around my two boys, watching them grow until what they want to be in sports and getting ready for graduation for one of them from kindergarten. So I'm just enjoying that and enjoying the great weather in Miami. Yeah, you know, what made me reach out to you is I've watched you, you know, as an analyst and in media, and you're really, really good.

But you just mentioned something because you're just 34 years old, so you still have a desire to play. Yeah, yeah, man, I still love the game. I still watch the game as much as possible. If you know me, I'm watching not even just NBA. I watch WNBA. I love watching WMBA. I watch the Hoskin kids.

I have my own hospital tournament to John Wall holiday invitation. One of the best tournaments right out of the Christmas. and I just enjoy a lot of the game, man. I watch all the sports, watch all the games. So I'm enjoying it. I mean, I'm watching the playoffs right now, so, yeah, I'm still working and keeping myself in shape. So do you think someone will give you a shot?

I don't know. You know what I mean? You see how the league is kind of going there, kind of going away from not having too many vets real. And most of the guys that are vets, they're not playing as much. I mean, they've really been a mentor and things like that. But some of the guys that are playing,

they've been playing. They have a great resume in their career right now, so they're still getting opportunities. So I don't know if I will, but, you know what I mean? Just for me, I still want to be in shape just to run around play with my kids and do all the little things. All right. I do want to ask you about OKC, Minnesota, and Pacers Knicks, which gets underway tonight. But since I have you here, I've got a few questions about your time here, because I'm a huge, you know, lifelong Bullets, Wizards fan. And those teams in 14, 15, you know, 16, was different because the injuries and 17 were fun to watch. And it was fun to watch because I really kind of felt as a fan.

It was the beginning of a 10-year maybe plus run of being a legitimate contender. It didn't work out that way because of injuries and other reasons. But here are a few questions about your time here. First of all, the best team you played on was which team? for me I feel like the best thing I played in was 16-17. I mean, we was right there when we took Boston to 7. I think that's the best team I played on. But I feel like we had other great teams too.

I mean, I feel like my first year would, Trevor Reeves, when I first made the playoffs, I think that was a great team also. But I think at the time, me and Brad wasn't the players we wanted to be at the time. We were learning how to be stars, learning how to be great in the NBA and learning how to do well in the playoffs.

So I think that was our first hurdle to understand how good we could be. And then I think my second team I would say would be the year we had Paul Pierce. Just his mentality of being a vet coming in there. Teaching is what really work was every day. And basically just giving me the confidence, like every time you step on the floor, you're the best player. And that's what I felt like every time I was out there with Paul. It was just devastating. I broke my hand, game one year in the playoffs.

But we still had an opportunity to come back and win. I mean, we won't rebound away from going up 3-2 and game 5 in Atlanta. I blocked Dennis Schroeder shot, and then we lose game six at home. I mean, just didn't make some shots down the end. But I feel like those are my good teams. I mean, I have a lot of great vets throughout my career, but I feel like those are my top two teams. Yeah, I'm still convinced to this day that if you don't get injured

against the Hawks in 2015, you guys win that series, and you would have faced Cleveland in the Eastern Conference Finals. And in 2017, if you had beaten Boston, you would have faced Cleveland in the Eastern Conference Finals. I'm curious because I've often thought about those two opportunities and how close the Wizards were to getting to the conference finals one series away from the NBA championship. Which of those two teams do you think would have had a better chance

against the two Cleveland teams, the 2015 calves, the 2017 calves? Would you have given either one of those two teams a chance And of those two teams, which team would have had the best chance of pulling off an upset and getting to the NBA finals? I think for me, I would say 2017, just because of the player I was, the player Brad was. I feel like everybody would just at a different level. I think even when you go back to that, I mean, Marquis Moore, remember we forget he got hurt game one. Right. Prane his ankle very bad, so he wasn't even supposed to play.

So I think 2017 we would have lost because even though, even though. I think we still probably would have lost series. It would have been a great series. But he wouldn't even been able to play in 2017 because he barely got through that game seven, going through the seven games against Celtics. I think 2015 probably a better chance because Keith was hurt, and we had Paul Pierce.

So I think, like, you know what I mean, he wasn't afraid of Bronn. He had battles with Bronn. Not saying he was the same player. He's well with the Celtics, but, you know, me, Brian had respect for him. And I think that would have helped us a little bit. Yeah, I always felt like the 2017 team may have had a chance.

I mean, you guys would have been a big underdog, but you had played Cleveland well that year. I think that was the year where LeBron had that ridiculous three in Verizon Center to force overtime, and it stopped, you know, a pretty lengthy winning streak. But I wanted to ask you about the two coaches that you played for here, because they couldn't have been more different. Randy Whitman and Scott Brooks. Describe the differences between Whitman and Brooks. You know what I mean, Scott Brooks is more like just,

He was just free-flowing letting the players do what they want. You know what I mean? He had his structure. He had his play. But, you know what I mean? He looked at, not saying me and Brad or Kevin Durant at Russell, but, you know, when it got down to, like, the fourth quarter, he let us control the game.

Like, we picked what we really wanted to run. I mean, Randy Whitman is more like a old-school type of coach. Learned a lot from Flipsonas and that pedigree had. They both were great at what they're dealing and what they had sailed in. Randy was more just an old-school mentality. And Scott Bush was kind of the new school mentality. You know what I mean? Like free-flowing, a lot of pick and roll that you do what you do, more so a Randy

Whitney. We had a lot of plays for our four-man, our two-men. And I ran the show, you know what I mean, but he was more in control of a lot of things. But they both helped my career get to where I wanted it to be. Is it fair to say, because I always felt this way, that Randy was an excellent X's and O's coach compared to Scott Brooks. Yeah, I would say that. Yeah, Scott Brooks, he's more so like just got the offense going the way he wanted to go.

You know what I mean? But Randy Whitman is more like you look at it. most of the old school coaches, they're great exes and those. You know what I mean. That's what they predicated bread and butter was off of back then. I mean, with us, when Scott Bush was coming around the time, it was more so when the game was evolving and changed, you know what I mean? It wasn't so many plays. There was a lot of uptempo, it was a lot of pick and rolls. We had a couple hit sets right here and there that we were run, but it was a little bit of different how the game was control. You could tell how the game is going now.

You mentioned a guy's name that I used to talk about all the time, and that is Trevor Areza. I thought he was an integral part of that first team. You and Brad were, you know, playing for the first time. Neyne was on that team. Martian Gortat was on that team. And, you know, Areza left after that first year. And I know that Paul Pierce eventually came in. There was the chase for Durant, remember, you know, in the offseason that wasn't necessarily a realistic chase. How much did you think that you guys ultimately miss Trevor. Risa after playing, you know, at a high level, both ends of the floor for you guys in that first playoff year? I think we miss them a lot. You know what I mean? Don't get me wrong. We got Paul that had like the closing mentality for it to help us like have a closure at the

end of that time. Me and Brad wasn't at the level of closing yet. We were still figuring it out. I think what he brought to was like veteran presence is the same thing Trevor bought. It was just more of a different mindset. But I think just Trevor being younger at the time and what he brought to us defensive helped us out on a different level, you know what I mean? Knockdown, shoot in the corner slash, you're going to make those plays.

Well, Paul Braw is a different dynamic. They both were great and both great veterans for us. But it was a big dynamic. And that's one thing I always was questioning and wondering, is like when we made that run with Trevor, like, why we didn't bring them back, you know, I mean? And in the year in 2017, we make the run we make, and we don't really make adjustments to make the team better than nature. You know what I mean, we kind of take it downfall.

Instead of keeping the guys or letting guys go, you know, it's a part of the business, how the game goes. but I wish you would have kept that team both for those teams together and try to make a push. But I also was grateful for having Paul there because what he brought to me and the mentality he brought for me took my game for another level. One of the smartest players, one of the absolute toughest players that you played with in those first few years when you guys were making the playoffs for the first time was Nene. What was it like playing with him?

Yeah, Nene was great. It was one of the best veterans I had. I mean, but he brought the physicality to our team. team. I think knowing, you know, we know we have Neyne, we didn't back down for nobody. No. He wasn't backing down for nobody. Right. It's just a game that involved. You know what I mean? At that time, Neyne was moving to the five position. I mean, with us, he was a power forward and Gortown was a five, which was great for it at the time when you had to have two bigs like that,

but by the time we got Marky Moore, which was a great pickup, we needed a straight forward at the time, you know what I mean? Yeah. And he could space the floor to the three, and he can switch out and guard guys a little better and stuff like that. So it was a different dynamic. That's what I go back to. I'm saying. 2015 team was a totally different team than what 2017 is, and it just lets you know how quick and fast

the game has involved in two to three years. And if you didn't catch up with it, you would get left behind. You look at David West. David West is one of the best picking up our four men to league at seen with the pace in all of a Sunday two years span. He had to become a stretch five, you know what I mean? So I think getting rid

of the name they was good for it. It brought Marky Moore. They helped us out a lot. But if we would have had the same, oh, NBA, I think day they would have been the perfect fit for it. Really interesting point about David West. We're talking, of course, to John Wall. So you had, I think, a signature moment, and I think you had an all-time game. Look, there isn't a lot to choose from in the history of this franchise when it comes to

playoff games, but I'm old enough to remember the 70s bullets. I was a kid, and I was into those teams. and I've referred to your game six against Atlanta to close them out in 2017 as one of the two or three greatest playoff games played by a bullet or a wizard ever. What do you remember about that night? Just to be honest, that whole series, man,

like we talked about earlier, when we had Paul in 2015, I'd break my hand in game one. I was devastating. I mean, I thought we could have beat them that year. I felt like that was opportunity. Right. And I just remember, you know, I mean, when they beat us and God,

I was from the horse was posting, pictures on Instagram, and I was like, okay, I'm having an opportunity to get back to them. So, you know, when we got them game, first round that year,

I was okay, it's his payback. Like, I told them, I'll be back soon, and I came back, and, you know, I mean,

I remember that whole scenario. Like, we up, I probably think we was up maybe, like, probably like eight or nine when I got sub-doubt and I got set up like a minute,

two and a fourth. Yep. I came back in, Brad, Brad tried to make a play, he sprained his ankle through the shoulder. I tased down,

got a block that could have cut it to like one or three. And after that, I just went on a scoring spree. Like, I got to my bread and butter. And I was just trying to find the Mitch-Matchy wanted to pick and roll. They wasn't trying to switch. Then I was getting to the elbow making my shot every time. I'm making the right play to Otto for 3 or Marquis Morris for a roll or Brad for a shot. And just closed it out.

I think I had like 20-some points in the fourth quarter. You scored 19 in the fourth quarter, 17 of the final 19, 42 points, eight assists, four steals, the block on Schrooter, you had actually two blocks in that game. You completely took over that fourth quarter. And something about the way you just described it, I always felt, John, about your game, that if you got consistent, especially when teams played under the screen or played drop coverage, you would be impossible to guard. That was kind of the last part of your game that came around, right?

it was your jump shot. Tell me about that process to get it to where on a big stage in game six of the conference semifinals, they kept going underneath and you kept drilling it. Well, yeah, you know what I mean? My whole life, I never had to work on my jump shot. I used it because I was so fast and a lady quicker than everybody. So I got wherever I wanted. I mean, I had a little stretch in college what I had to use it a little bit, but it wasn't

too much because we were so great in the half court. And earlier on in my career, you know, I had some concerns. a great coach that was helping me master that. But it was things I had to work on myself. And don't get me wrong, I always worked on my game every year, every day that I could. But I never had to really use it because I was still able to get to wherever I wanted. So then I said, you know what, for me they're involved to make this team better, to make a deeper run and make my game and sell to what I want to be,

an all-star, all-N-B-a type of player, have to be able to knock down the mid-range jumpshine. That was a bread and butter. So I got to it in that year. That was probably my best year in the lead because guys couldn't go under no more. and I was able to get to my spots, and they made my teammates job a lot easier. And, yeah, they kept going on there, and I was making a shot. Your signature moment, that was your signature game, for me anyway.

I think it's, I think it was your, do you agree that that's the best game in terms of the postseason of your career? Yeah, for sure. I would say that because we got the win. I mean, the other game, I would say I had better than that was probably game one or game two. in Boston. I think me in I did a time when that went at it. I think overtime, I had like 40-something

like 10 and 6-focences, but we didn't get the win, so I won't count that one. So I definitely would count the Halt Series because it meant so much to me from being into the year a couple of two years before that. And just me telling a lot of my rapper friends and fans in Atlanta that was courts out,

I was like, I mean, that was like 35, 40, we're going to get the win. That's what I told them after I made the first. You can see me. Yeah, Julio Jones was there. Playboy. Yeah, Julio Jones, Playboy, Pee, Long Wake, Gucci, all them. And I was like, I'm going to get 35-40,

I'm going to get the win. I'm telling him that. And shit, I got to do it. So that probably is my best playoff game for sure. All right. Well, so the signature moment is game sits, six against Boston. Yeah, I'm agreeing with you. With you. With you. The Force, the Game 7, you jumped on up on the table and screamed my town.

Just tell me, you know, kind of your memories of that shot. because if my memory serves me correctly, it wasn't necessarily supposed to be a play for you initially to shoot a three. Nah, the play wasn't for me. Yeah. It was a play we always run.

It was for Brad to get a pin down. We'll go down to the bass, get a pin down from Garton, and come up and shoot three at the top of the key. But they guarded so well. So I really was a D-quarter run to the corner, and I realized we had to get the ball in. And I just basically almost set out of bounds. I tiptoe the sideline right in front of out of and got the ball.

Yeah, you know what I mean, Avery Bradley's a hell of a defender. I've been going to get Avery Bradley since my junior year in high school. And I was like, you know what I mean? He's a great defendant. He has a respect for the rest. There's not an opportunity to play with the basketball right here. I got to get it done. So when I dribble, I took the one dribble, he took steps back

because he probably thought I was going to try to attack the basket. And I just had to hit you pull for three. You know what I mean? I work on every day. Before practice, after practice, all that. And shit, it's the biggest shot of my career. It went in. Yeah, it went in.

And then Game 7 was not. Not that, you know, you played well, but you didn't shoot it well, and you struggled in the second half. Bradley was unbelievable in that game seven. You know, the crazy thing about that series is every one of those road games, we had a chance to win. Maybe not game five. Game five got away from us, but game one we were in, game two, it went to overtime. Game one, game one, we was out of 16. Exactly. So we should have won that game. Yeah. Game two, we should have got that game. I think, you know what I mean, just a little bit of adjustments.

I mean, like playing other guys at the time. Could it help this? I mean, I think Jason Smith could have got a little bit more mention of me at the time because you look at game seven, Bradley played well, but Kelly Olinnick killed us also. Yeah. Because, you know what I mean? Kelly Olinonnelly. That was his game.

That was his game. So that was hurting us. We got Olinx. Yeah, that was hurting us a little bit. So it would have been a little different. It would have been a little different for us. So it got away from us. but, like, yeah, game seven, yeah, I was gas.

I'm not going to lie. I told Coach, I said, let me get a break. I played the whole second half, like, the whole 24 minutes. I'm like, well, I need at least one minute, two minute. Like, I got no legs left. Tasting out there, Thomas around doing all that. But I think just playing Kelly, I mean, playing Jason Smith would have probably help us a little bit more.

Right. You know what I mean? Because, like, especially with Kelly Lynn, playing the five, he was picking and popping and stretching the floor against us. So that would have helped us. But, yeah, that was not the game I wanted to have for game seven. But, you know what I live with the results. So like I said, in an interview before and after game six, I'm going to go out and shoot.

I'm not going to go out, like, scared and been in those moments. This is what you asked for, and it just wasn't our night. But we still had a great chance to win until the fourth quarter happened. Yeah, no doubt. When did you realize that the Gortat screen was something unique? Oh, well, I used to watch Kendraperger's door with Russell Westbrook, and I'm like, man, damn, how much he'd get in all these dogs and stuff? When I seen that, and then Gortataw was using it,

it a lot with Steve Nash. When he came over, he brought it to me, and it helped me out. You know what I mean? Like, just me trying to get better as a point guard and learn how to run the position the right way. And then seeing Gortop being with Steve Nash, he brought a lot of advice and a lot of things that I could use. And he helped my game involved, and I also helped this game out also with us running the true man picking road.

So I knew it was effective. And we had a little signal, you know what I mean? Like, we could tell how teams are garners. And when teams have been aggressive trying to blitz me, I'd like, all right, set the screen the first time, the second time, don't set it. Screen your own man and give me an opportunity to get down the lane. Right, yeah. I love the basketball relationship that the two of you had.

You guys were a tough pick and roll combination. I think part of it is he had really good hands. I mean, you were an exceptional passer. But for a big man, he caught everything you threw to him. Yeah, man, he had great, man. When you do a basketball, they had great hands of catching the basketball. What a lot of people don't understand, He's sneaky athletic, but at the same time, his touchability around the basketball was impeccable.

You know what I mean? Like, he had the reverse layup. He had laid like he was a gar. Right. So I think that helped us out a lot because he was just quick with keeping the basketball high, getting layups on the glass and things like that. So any pass out through to him, several paths, lob past, or anything, he was able to catch the basketball and make things happen. Did you ever think there was any chance to get Durant? No, I really don't.

To be honest, I had a feeling that I was trying to explain to them and tell them that we don't have a real shot at getting them. So you did. I don't think. You told Ted and Ernie that? Yeah, I was telling everybody, like, we don't have a chance to get them. Like, you don't want to come back home. I mean, but, you know what I mean, everybody's going to do their job to the best of their ability and what they think is best. And I think, like, you know, I mean, we letting that happen.

We let Trevor walk. And that hurt us and they help Houston for the next couple of years. I totally agree with that. hardest player you ever had to guard. I'm going two people. Darren Rose, that was MVP year. Yep. Was terrible.

And then I say Kyrie Irvin because, to me, he's the most complete skill basketball player that I've ever seen playing. You know what I mean? To shoot the ball with left hand, right hand, catching shoot three, off the dribble three, post up like he's six days. It has a layup package.

So those are two guys, I would say. So the way you just described Kyrie Irving, How do you describe Steph Curry? Steph Curry is tough in a different way because Steph Curry runs around, like, don't get me wrong. One-on-one, Steph's hard to guard, but I'll be fine. But it's just the way that he runs around all those strings. The way they run their offense, bro, like, he gives up the ball.

He can't relax for one second. He don't take a break. Right. So that's what makes Steph hard to guard because he doesn't relax and take a break when he gets off the basketball. ball. Yeah, I've always thought of Steph as the best combination of a ball handler and shooter in one body, and Kyrie might be the best ball handler, score in one body that I've ever seen. Is that a fair way to describe it, or would you describe it differently?

That's a fair way to describe it, but also, a lot of people forget how great of a shooter Kyrie is. He's not Steph Curry, you know what I mean? I'm like, you know, everybody knows Steph Curry is the greatest shooter of all time. but Kyrie can shoot the ball to dribble just as well that I mean, catch and shoot just as well but yeah, the way you describe it's perfect but it's like with Kyrie you're like

you know what Steph you really don't get too many mid-range is either a three ball or getting always to the basketball like a little floater but Kyrie you might get pull-up jumper a left-hand floater, a right-hand floater, a lay-up package, a mid-post fadeaway and I mean so it's so much different things you got to worry about with Kyrie.

Give me the player, the really good player, All-Star caliber, that when you, when the Wizards played that team and he was going to guard you, you knew that you owned him and you were going to have a big night? An all-star caliber player? Yes, like a really good player that everybody would know. Wasn't there somebody that when they came to town, you were like, I'm getting 40 tonight? I really didn't see, like, that's the difference for me. I really didn't care about getting 40.

You know what I mean? True. You know what I mean? True. My job was like to make sure everybody else game with easy. And I'm glad you brought it up because I try to explain to a lot of people. I could have averaged 20, 25 every season.

But that would have made my team better. You know what I mean? They would have looked good for my resume, but my team wouldn't have been as good. You know what I mean? My job was to get everybody else around me better and still control but I need to control or take over when I needed to. You know what I mean? That's what I did. But are you saying that?

I would say, I would say, man, it had to be Kyrie, man. I knew I had to have a great game against Kyrie because I play him so much. And every time we played the Cavs on the East, I had to lace my boots up and put on the show because if I didn't, he was going to embarrass me. And all those games was on TV, so I lace my boots up for that game for sure. All right, good one. All right, one last one just Wizards related.

And then I want to just ask you about the final four teams, and then I'll let you run. I appreciate the time. So you know that the history of the team includes, you know, the bullet teams from back in the 70s that won a title, went to another championship. Actually went to three championship series in Washington in the 70s, 1-1. But once they came the Wizards, I'm curious as to where you would rank yourself on the all-time Wizards player list. And then if you have a sense of the team's history in Washington when they were the

bullets where you would rank yourself there. I don't like really like to rank myself, but me, I would put myself as the number one best wizard. Just my opinion, you know what I mean? Like, if you had bullets, you know what I mean, you got to put West Unselled or Elvin Hayes, you know what I mean? Because those guys want, I mean, are champions. But I think with the Wizards is between me and Gil. Like, you know what I mean? I think people are going to go either way you want with me or Gilbert Arenas.

So that's where I would go because he had a hell of a – his run there was spectacular. You know what I mean? And we both always get to the same thing. second round but you never got over the hump. But I would just say between us, too, if you're saying... Yeah, I've always thought of you as a top... I think you're number four on the all-time Wizards Bullets list. I think it's Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld, Bobby Dandrich, and then you.

I think there are some people that would debate Phil Schneer, and some would debate Gilbert. But I always thought of you as the number one wizard ahead of Gil. I've got you ahead of Gil. I think you were just a much better defender and a much better, you know, two-way player than Gil was. Yeah, I think if you want to just scoring, you definitely take Gil. You know what I mean, Gil is a fucking phenomenal score, you know what I mean? But if you say everything else with the game, I take myself. But scoring-wise, every day of the week, shooting-wise and scoring-wise, I'm definitely taking Gil.

I wouldn't deny that for nothing. Did you miss D.C. at all? Where do you live? Well, I love D.C. I try to come back all the time, man. Like, D.C. is always going to be my second home. I'm a place I'm always going to try to be tied to. Hopefully one day I can find a way to do anything that can impact the help the city with the team, anything like that. That would be great for me.

But I'm always tuning to the team and trying to figure out what's going on. And, I mean, I was watching the lottery to hopefully they can get the number one, number two pick. Right. They can get another great guy. It's trade out four to six. But you know how those things work because when you look at it here, I went to D.C. They wasn't pulled to have the number one pick, you know what I mean? So I'm glad that happened, but yeah, I'm always tuned in.

I'm always back in D.C. I'm always doing things and trying to keep my face good in that area. You're such a hoops junkie. So tell me of their young players that they've drafted here over the last two years, who do you like a lot? The beyond, I love, I like all the guys. I think they're doing a great job of letting those guys develop. I think they're trying to figure out how the new NBA game is. I think they have a great young core. I think the next thing for them is just trying to find which one is going to be the star. It's either out of the young guys they drafted or they got to get one in the draft. That can be the next star and be the next franchise guy for them.

But I think whoever they figure out who the franchise guy is, all the pieces they have around them are going to work out well for them. You got to have a star. Do you see one at number six or not? I think next year drag, you'll probably see one at six. But, you know, we don't, all of us don't never get it right, you know what? But if one of the guys that we think of a star that don't go high, fall to 60, you might have to start.

You know what I mean? I think a guy that would fit well for them and get him a powerful position. The big kid, Derek Quinn. You like Derek? Merrill, I think he'll be a, yeah, I love him, like, great footwork. I watch him a lot in high school, so, yeah, and I watch him in college. I think he'd be a great fit for them. But, you know, it all depends on who falls.

You know what I mean? Some guys be projected one, two, or three, and then they end up falling a little different. So we have to wait and see. All right, let's take a quick break. And when we come back, I'll ask John about the final four, Oklahoma City, Minnesota, and who he likes in the Knicks Pacer series, which starts tonight. We'll get to that and more after these words from a few of our sponsors. It can be hard for men to deal with hair loss, even though it's common.

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and important safety information. We'll continue with John Wall here in a minute. This segment of the show is brought to you by MyBooky. If you want to bet the NBA playoffs, my recommendation is to go to mybooky.ag or mybooky.com. First things first, use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and they'll give you a cash bonus into your account. They've got the Knicks as four and a half point favorites tonight

in game one against the Pacers. Oklahoma City after destroying Minnesota last night. OKC, a seven and a half point favorite in game two tomorrow night. They've got all the hockey, they've got all the NFL futures, they've got the NFL week one and week two lines, my bookie.ag promo code, Kevin, DC. We continue with John Wall. So OKC last night roars back in the second half. going away. Do you feel pretty good about them winning this series?

I think it's going to be a great series. I mean, Minnesota, I think, you know what I mean, I don't think they're going to shoot. Don't get me wrong, you live by three, you die by three, but they went 15 for 50. And if you look at their bench guys, they had a lot of great looks. I mean, I think they took a couple of bad threes, but they had a lot of great looks and they miss. And if you go back to when they played the Lakers, even though OKC is a different team, defensive, I love what they bring and how they play. But the guys you would let shoot three, the OKC, they made them last night. Minnesota, the guys you had shooting that you don't want shooting,

miss a lot of open ones. So if they make a couple of those is a different ball game. I feel like Minnesota happens, the main thing, they can't turn the ball over that much. Like, even if you look at them before halftime, they was up 10-11, and they let, OK, see, cut it to the four by turning the ball over. Don't turn the ball over, get a shot every time, and let them play against your half-course set, I mean, defense.

I think they'll be fine. And those guys like Knaz-Reed, and the killer has in the walker, Deven Chizzo. They're getting all those open threes. I don't think they're a goal and miss that. shots they did last night. So I think it would be a good shit. I'll take Minnesota a final, still the second game. But you know what I mean? Okay, she's a great team and Shay Show why he's going to be the MVP or should be in a run of MVP the way he finished the

game. Yeah, you know, what you said about Minnesota missing a lot of open looks last night, I feel the same way, especially in the first half. And if they had made some of those, with some of the guys that have been knocking down shots like Nas Reid during the postseason, It may have been a different game. But, you know, at the same time, John, I feel like watching Oklahoma City in this postseason, and I know that they were this way during the regular season as well. But, man, they are so good defensively.

They are so relentless, especially with ball pressure. And they seem to be able to guard one through five with whomever they have out on the floor. And they're a deep team. So no matter who they come in off the bench with it, seems like they can all guard one through five. Give me your thoughts just on Oklahoma City defensively in particular. Well, yeah, if you have so many great individuals,

see, the difference is a lot of guys that they can't really guard them more. You know what I mean? Because they're taking away from, oh, the best defender guard this person and when they pick and roll switch. They're on the best defender's not guarding nobody, you know what I mean? Right. And if he's not giving you nothing offensively, if you're not giving nothing offensively, you take them off the floor.

Okay, if he has four or five guys every time they're on the floor, that can guard at a high level. So they're fine in that situation of scenario. All right, Indiana, New York. I don't know. It's interesting. I think the two people that have to play well for them is Carlinthe Towns, O.G. and Anobi.

And I think for the Pacers, it has to be Mous Turner and Seacom. Those two have to play well for those two. But you're not meant... That's up in the air from... That's up in the air. I don't know who's going to win. I mean, it's tricky right now. Yeah, because the difference is...

cat wasn't there last year, and OG got hurt, but you got to think, Bennett and Matthew wasn't there last year. He didn't play. He's a big piece of the Pacers bench. And also, I think the difference could be the Pacis bench versus the Knicks bench because the Pacers play with a lot of pace that the Celtics didn't play with. Would you favor OKC over either one of those two teams? I would favor any one of the teams from the West over the Eastern Conference.

I agree with that. So I feel like whoever wins the West. because what they bring defensively and what they bring offensively, and they have depth off the bit. So I feel like one of those teams from the West would be the champion. All right. Last question for you. You get to pick any player in the league right now to lead your team,

not for the next 10 years, but just say the next three years. So that keeps some of the veteran players in the mix for you. Who are you taking? What am I going for to win a championship? Yeah, to win a chance. to win a championship? Next three years. Ooh, that's a good question.

See, to me, I go, for me, I'm going Anthony Edwards, man. Just because he's young, the mentality, the dog he brings, he's not scared of nobody. He lives by that old school mentality, you know, I mean? And a lot of people are going to say, why you pick him, you say the next last three years, he hasn't won anything. I just feel like he's the guy. I would have said Tatum, but Tatum is coming off of Achilles.

injury. So, you know, we have to see how he comes back from that. And a lot of people discredit what he's done in his career. So if it, if Tatum didn't get hurt, I would have picked Jason Tatum, but I'm taking Anthony Edwards. The reason I asked the question the way I asked it, where it's about the next three years and not the next, you know, decade, is I wanted players like, you know, Yokic is an example, to be a possibility. Because 10 years from, you know... Well, he's definitely a possibility. Yeah. Or even a, even a yon. honest. Yonkers don't count, man. Yolkes, what he just did with that team? His team wasn't

even as much as talented as was it was in the past. You have to give Yokin's disrespect. Yeah, that was tough. Aaron Gordon hurt. Porter couldn't make a shot. And I used to love, I loved Russ, John. He was one of my favorite players forever. I don't think anybody's ever tried harder. But when that game, when the game slows down for him, him, you found a way when the game slowed down as you grew and became a veteran player to know the difference between the playoffs and the regular season. I never feel and have felt like Russ has figured out how to play when the game slows down. I think it just all depends. I mean, I think people forget when he was okay, see what he did. Then he got out of Houston,

it was well. I think the Lakers just was a bad situation for him. Also, I think in the Clippers situation was it great for him, you know what I mean? Like you said, it's a love-and-hate relationship with Russia. I mean, he's going to do something you love, he's going to do something you hate. But you've got to love the effort he gives out there every time he's out there. Thank you, John, for doing this. I really enjoyed it, loved it to hear your voice. Glad you're doing well.

You're really doing well with the media stuff. But I really appreciate it. Hope to do it again soon. And I'm sorry, I kept you much longer than I told you I would. But you were great. No, you're good. That's all great, man. Thank you for the time. Thank you for the time. Take care. Okay, bet.

John Wall, everybody. Up next, the 85th Senior PGA Championship gets underway tomorrow at Congressional. Local golfing legend Fred Funk will jump on with me next to talk about it. That's after these words from a few of our sponsors. The 85th Senior PGA Championship is being held this weekend. at Congressional. Congressional Blue, which is a different blue these days, but all of the great champions are in town, including an all-time local favorite, Tacoma Park Zone, University of Maryland's own, Fred Funk, joins me right now. Real quickly, before we get to how you've been doing and how you think you're going to play this weekend, for the players who haven't been back to

congressional in a long time. What's the reaction been to, you know, the complete course redesign? Well, it's had a major haircut. It went from being a hippie to a baldy. It actually looks really good. aesthetically, I think it's gorgeous. It's a lot like what they did to Oakmont when Oakmont decided to take all their trees out and opened up the golf course. And I think Oakmont looks better. I actually think this one looks better. It's really good. So aesthetically, when you look at it, it's great. The fairways are probably the best grass I've ever hit off in my life.

It's such beautiful bent grass fairways, phenomenal. The ball has a little cushion, and they're really nice. But the greens are diabolical. They're just so much movement on them. It's beyond comprehension why they would make them that severe, but they did, and some of them are just ridiculous. and if they get them up the speed, this rain probably slowed them down a little, but they have a sub-air system, they can dry them out.

But there's still going to be a lot of three-puss. If you're out of position on the green, which is not hard to do, you're going to have long puss with like triple, quadruple breaks to it, and it'll be hard to judge them. The other day, Fred, I just got caught into one of those sort of YouTube black holes where I was looking at some of the major championships that Congressional had hosted the 2011 U.S. Open, which Rory won. And then the 97 Open, which Ernie won.

He battled Colin Montgomery and Tom Lehman on that final day. And I had forgotten that that particular open, it ended on a par three. They had turned 18 into 17, and they turned 10 into 18. Did you play in that open, I forget? I did. Yeah, I don't remember how I finished, but yeah, that's how it ended with the Part 3, and they didn't like that. They wanted 18 to be the, which it is, it's a really hard finishing hole, the iconic finishing hole of congressional nowadays. Right. That hole hasn't really changed too much. It's still the same green. It's down there surrounded, you know, on the back front and sides, or back in sides, and the front's open, but you've got that horseshoe lake coming around, and you've got a bunch of bunkers now going down the right side in the fairway,

and a really tight fairly. That's the only fairway that really plays extremely tight because it tilts as well to the right to left, and it kicks the ball over into the rough, and the rough is not that high. It's just really, really thick, and you can't move it. And it gets down into there, and you're just hacking it out. Fred Funk was in...

But I didn't answer your question. Actually, I didn't answer your question. So the new 10 is changed again because they had it going... part three now down the hill, and the old 10 toll is now the 11th hole, which is a par 5, a beautiful, par 5 with a split faraway up at the end of it. But 10 is now from the back tee to the front of the green is 116 yards, and then it's about 40 yards deep, and it's real narrow. It's like a strip of bacon, sort of, and it's so elevated, or it's pretty elevated,

even though you're hitting a very short club anywhere from a, you know, Some of these guys will hit Sandwich to maybe nine, maybe eight at most. It's a short hole, but it's a diabolical green. It's just really, really tough. And the greens are, you know, they're still bouncing, and you landed on the back half of that green, and it's going to go over into the water. And it just looks like it's sitting there,

but it's going to create a lot of problems for a lot of guys. You just don't hit the right shot. So that's the new hole. they keep trying to make it fix. In my opinion, that's the one hole back when they changed it originally, that didn't fit the golf course. And I still don't think it fits the golf course. I hate to be critical, but it doesn't.

Yeah. So you've been playing on the PGA Champions Tour for a while now. You're 68 years old. You've made six cuts, I think, this year in six appearances. I want to go back, though, to your PGA career pre-senior tour. You won eight times on that tour. You were in contention at majors a couple of times. You obviously won the Players' Championship.

What is the single, you know, most memorable moment of Fred Funk's career? I went in the players in 05 my iconic win or my biggest win that was that was huge at 48 years old that was that was amazing so that was a great win there

and then a few years later I won the quite a few years later I won four years later I won the senior U.S. Open and that was my other one that's right with it

because I always wanted to have my name on a U.S.GA trophy and then the way I won it was really cool because I was Farrow Greg Norman both Saturday and Sunday, and I beat him by 8. I won by 6 and shot 20 under, which is the lowest underpar score in any USA event. So it was pretty memorable week that week. I want to talk about a couple of the major championships that you were legitimately in contention to win. And we'll go back to 2002 Hazeltine PGA championship. This is the one that Rich Beam ended up winning.

But you had the first round lead. You were just a couple of shots back heading into the final round. You ended up shooting a final round 73 and finished tied for fourth behind Rich Beam, Tiger Woods, and Chris Riley. What do you remember about that tournament? What do you remember about that final day? Is there anything about that weekend that you regret? nothing. It was, I had a great day.

I was fair with Tiger in the second and last group. And we just had a great day. That was one of the, well, it was one of the tournaments where the whole crowd adopted me. They kind of picked me to be their guy. And I think because I was playing really well, I was relaxed on the golf course, and I was interacting with the crowd. And, you know, when they were cheering me, I was cheering them. And so we got kind of engaged that week with the crowd.

and they were rooting for me more than Tiger on Sunday at times. And Tiger actually mentioned it. Hey, they're rooting for you more than me. I'd get used to it, pal. But it ended up, you know, I fell out of contention there early in the back nine, and then Tiger actually made two big mistakes on 13 part three after Rich Beam at Eagle number 11 on 13. He three putted. And then 14 is that little drivable part four that he made a bogey on.

And he also made a bogey when Y Yang beat him there on that same hole. Right. Anyway, he lost touch with Rich, and then he pulled hooks his drive on 15. And the part 5, and it's left of the fairway bunkers in this hay, and he's walking off the tee, and he's saying a lot of F bombs walking off the tee, and he says, I'm going to bird these last four holes, and I'm going to win this son of a gun. And I'm looking at Mark McCaddy, and says, you hear that? And sure enough, he buried 15, 16, 17, 17, 18.

Rich ended up burning 16 to give him the cushion he needed to end up winning. And it was really cool to see that, to be right in the front seat of watching that. How brutal was Shinnecock on the final day in 2004? Ridiculous. It was, I walked on to the range that day. Well, actually, I walked in the locker room. I checked the scores because I was fair with Phil that day in the second and last group. So another great day with high energy.

I always love playing with Phil and Tiger because all the energy in the crowd. it was just automatic and it was cool to be in there. I wasn't intimidated by it. I actually loved it. So anyway, I walked in the locker room and I looked at the scores and everybody's turning 40, 42, 44, and I'm going, man, what the hell was going on? And then I walk out onto the putting green and it's completely brown. I poured a bottle of water on it.

It just beat it up and rolled off the green. And I go, oh, geez, I said, this is real. And the whole range was dead. It was just brown grass and the golf course looked like that. And the camera crew came up, interviewed me, golf channel, whoever it was, and they came up, and they said, so what do you think you expect today? And so, well, they already lost control of the range. It's going to be a tough, really tough day.

And sure enough, it was a tough day. It was, that was something else. Yeah, that was a Reteef Gousin win in 2004 with just him and Mickelson finishing under bar. Yeah, but I'll tell you what happened there. So a lot of people don't know this story if you have time for this. Yeah, please. Phil, he hits it to a foot on 16 to par 5 to tie with Retief,

and we go to 17. It's pretty easy part 3, and he hits in the left bunker. It doesn't even have a lip. The lip's not even a foot high. And we had the rock roll that year. If you could see a rock, you could take it out. But he had this 15 feet to the flag where he would have probably gotten up and down

nine out of ten times and probably would have hold about four of them. Instead, it came out. You could tell the sound in the way the ball reacted. there was a rock down underneath. They got between the ball and the club, and the ball hit the green and had overspin on it. It rolled about 12 feet past, and you can see the mark on the face of the club,

and he three puttie coming back at the same time, while he's three-putting, retie is Birdie and 16, and all of a sudden he has a three-shot lead, and it was a game-set match because of that rock. And Phil never talked about that rock. It was amazing. I asked him about it. He said I shouldn't have been in the bunker,

and I go, yeah, but you got screwed. And I goes, no, or he goes, no, shouldn't have been in the bunker. Anything can happen in the bunker. I went, okay, I get it. So that's what happened there. Yeah, a good story. Of course, a couple years later at the open, he had a really good shot at Wingfoot going to 18 and hit driver, which he probably shouldn't have hit.

He hit off the tent way left over there somewhere. Yeah. There's a bunch of guys that folded their tent on that hole. I wanted to ask you real quickly, the just completed PGA with Scotty Sheffler winning it. Do you like the move to May? I kind of feel like there's more attention potentially with it back in August. What do you think? No, I don't like the May date.

But the way they're trying to finish the schedule to not go up against the NFL and finishing so early, they kind of force the hand to move that PGA to the TPC when the TPC move from March to May, that created an opportunity where the TPC could go back to March and PGA dropped back into May. I mean, yeah, drop into May. Right. And I just don't like it. I like it the way it was before.

But what they like is you've got the players, Masters, PGA, U.S. Open and British, you know, one every week and every month of those five months. So they like that aspect of it. But you eliminated a lot of the northern tier golf courses to host PGA that early in a year up north. All right. Tomorrow morning, you tee off at 8.50 a.m. on hole number one in round number one, barring any sort of bad weather. You've kind of talked about the difficulty of the course.

Tell me what you think the winning score is come Sunday. You know, it's hard to tell because, one, it's a bomber's paradise. The fairways are huge. They're really, really wide. They've got a lot of room. A lot of these guys can fly at least one of the bunkers on one of the sides. They're going to have a lot of short clubs in, but the greens are so diabolical that it's still going to be hard to hit it close. So I don't know what the scores are.

I got a feeling it's going to be lower than people might think. I don't know what they're thinking, but I'm thinking probably somewhere around 12 to 16, unless the wind starts blowing like crazy. That's the only thing I think can stop them. So it will take a bomber. A medium hitter or a shorter hitter has no chance here, I don't think. Wish you the best of luck. You'll have a lot of fans out there following you, I'm sure,

and hopefully you're there with a shot at the end. Thanks, Fred, so much. Yeah, I just want to make the cut. It's not a huge goal, but that's a big goal for me now. Well, you've been making cuts this year, so good luck on making another one. Thank you so much. All right. All right, thanks.

Fred Funk, everybody, the Senior PGA Championship tomorrow through Sunday at Congressional. Tickets are available to get tickets. Go to srpGA.com. All right. That's it for the show. Show back tomorrow with Tommy.