The Kevin Sheehan Show - Under-25 Commanders

Episode Date: July 3, 2024

Kevin today opened addressing an e-mailer who wonders why in a rebuilding year, Washington signed older players like Zach Ertz and Bobby Wagner. It was a perfect transition into "ESPN's Under-25 NFL Roster Rankings" and the Commanders place on that list which Kevin discussed. Ben Standig/The Athletic jumped on to talk all-too-early 53-man depth chart projections for Washington's defense. The rest of Kevin's conversation with Steve Czaban finished up the show with Czabe weighing in on Jayden Daniels, the team, and Rory McIlroy. Download the PrizePicks app today and use code Sheehan for a first deposit match up to $100! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Wind Donation. Give him a call at 86690 Nation or head to Windonation.com. Mention my name and you'll get a free, no-risk in-home estimate.

Two guests on the show today. Ben Standig's going to jump on in the next segment. He has done his 53-man all-too-early depth chart. projection for the defense. So we'll talk to Ben about that. And then you'll hear the second part of my conversation the other day with Zabe. He talks Washington football franchise, Jaden Daniels, Rory McElroy as well. Tough night for the Nats last night.

A second straight night of extra innings where they just gave up way too much in the 10th. They gave up five in the top of the 10th. didn't generate anything in the bottom of the 10th, unlike the night before, and they lost 7 to 2. As far as James Wood grounded out his first three at bats, and then he led off the bottom of the ninth inning in a 2-2 game and had a great at bat. Six pitch, I think it was, at bat, and he walked his second base on balls in his many nights. But they could not generate anything behind that went to extras and lost again.

The Nats have now lost seven of their last eight. And as far as the Mets go, they have now lost to the Mets five games in a row. And the Mets have really, really roared back this season after a slow start. They are a game over 500 in the National League East. The Nats are now seven games below. 500. They play again tonight and then they will play tomorrow on July 4th as well. I got this from Jeremiah. Jeremiah emailed me and said, Kevin, been listening to you forever. Do you think the team wasted roster spots on older, familiar guys in what is definitely a rebuilding year? Why

Ertz, Crowder, Fowler, Jr. and even Wagner, when none of those players will be factors in playoff seasons down the road. Well, Jeremiah, I love your optimism. Playoff seasons down the road. I'd like to think that that's coming at some point. It's interesting that I read this email this morning because ESPN put out today their rankings of the best rosters in the NFL of players 25 years of age. and younger. And I will get to that momentarily until you were Washington's places among the 32 teams ranked. But look, Jeremiah, a new staff brings a new playbook, new schemes, a new culture. And in this organization, you know, the new everything, you know, the new playbook, the new schemes, the new culture, it's not like it was in lieu of anything that was here previously that was really good or even interesting. We were all in favor of a major makeover and that's what's happening.

And when there's a major makeover, you know, the architects, the designers, those that are doing the building on the makeover, they are more efficient. They're more comfortable if they use at least some people with whom they have trust in working with. And not only working, on the makeover, but being teachers of those that are new in helping to make over the football organization on the field. So I have no issue with Ertz and Wagner and Fowler Jr. And by the way, all of the other familiar players that they brought in, that is so typical of a new coaching regime. By the way, they're not even that old, really. I mean, Wagner was really good last year in Seattle. He's 33.

Ertz is healthy again for the first time in a while, and it's not like he's 36 or 37. He's 33 years old, and Fowler Jr., by the way, Jeremiah, is just 29. I don't have any issue with the people they brought in, including those that, you know, I guess you could say are a bit older. I think the reasons they did it make sense to me. Now, to the ESPN ranking of the top raw. of under 25 talent. Here was the methodology that they used. They considered the number of starts made by players under 25 years old, the number of snaps played by players under 25 years old.

You know, the quality of play of those players under 25 years old. They considered the value and the length of the player contracts that are on the roster that are under 25. They considered the relative importance of positions, with quarterbacks being more important than, say, running backs or off-ball linebackers. They considered the draft value in this just-concluded 2024 draft. They considered, you know, players under 25 that are expected to be starters or key reserves in the upcoming season. And Washington's place on this list was 18th among the last.

32 teams. Interestingly, and this may add to Jeremiah's thought process, they were ranked 15th last year, you know, for whatever that's worth, for whatever any of this is worth. You know, they write that the blue chip player is Jaden Daniels, notable players are Brian Robinson, Jr. Sam Cosmey and Jamin Davis, interesting. We'll be talking Jamin Davis with Ben Standing in the next segment. But what's written about Washington is that Washington is boosted significantly by this year's draft, and that starts with number two overall pick in 2023 Heisman Trophy winner, Jaden Daniels, who's 23 a quarterback. The commanders also had three second round picks this year, Johnny Newton, Ben Senate are both 22, Mike, Sanristil, is 23. As for players who were in Washington last year,

wide receiver Jehan Dodson's 24, although his reputation is better than his performance in the ESPN receiver tracking metrics where he received near the bottom of the league. I didn't realize that with Dodson's season last year. But then again, I mean, we know what they ended up being offensively in the rough year he had. Another young player who struggled in advanced metrics is corner Emmanuel Forbes Jr. Last year's first round pick was one of the worst corners in the league per ESPN's advanced numbers with only 38 tackles and one interception. However, he's just 23 and many top corners take two or three years to develop. So they were 18th on this list. What was interesting about this list, if you even find it remotely interesting, because it's the NFL

and all of these lists and all of these rankings are for fun because nobody really knows anything. But at 21 overall is Dallas's roster of under 25 players. They do have Micah Parsons, C.D. Lamb, Duran Bland, among their under 25 players. And then down at 29th is Philadelphia. You know, Philadelphia is young player group, not as impressive as their older player group. Now, they did draft, you know, guys like Cooper DeGene and Quinyon Mitchell, you know, corner. They still have Nukobi Dean. Remember who they drafted high

in last year's draft, Nolan Smith, Jr. And they, you know, still have Jalen Carter and Devante Smith. Landon Dickerson, who's one of the top guards in the league. By the way, there was a list from the other day of the best guards in the NFL, and Sam Cosmi was eighth

on that list. But he was behind Landon Dickerson in Philly. But I thought it was interesting anyway. If you look at the rosters, that the under 25 talent, which is somewhat predictive of future greatness, not current greatness. You do not have to be a young team to contend or win the Super Bowl, contend for or win the Super Bowl.

But Dallas and Philly are not young teams or even talented with their young players based on this methodology. The Giants in Washington are much ahead of those teams. the Giants are actually 13th on this list, and they do have some good young players. You know, Kavon Thibbido, Deontay Banks, the Maryland Corner, Malik Neighbors, obviously. Andrew Thomas, who's still under 25 years old. How old is Andrew Thomas? Now, he's got to be at 25, right?

He is. He's exactly 25 years old. And John Michael Schmitz, the center that the Giants drafted recently, is on that list. They've got others, too. The thing with the Giants, I do like their defensive roster. And what they've had to do over the last couple of years and they haven't done it is significantly improve their offensive line and their playmakers on offense. And that's what they have focused on here over the last couple of drafts.

Of course, you know, can they keep Daniel Jones upright? and what's the long-term quarterback answer? Washington, I think, right now you would say, has a better long-term quarterback answer than the Giants do. I mean, we don't know anything about Jaden Daniels in the NFL, but we do know that, you know, that right now in New York, there is a bit of a question as to whether or not Daniel Jones is the long-term answer. Anyway, rate us and review us, if you get a chance, especially on Apple and Spotify, that's really helpful for us.

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I think it is a great value. Ben writes a lot covering the football team, but there's so much more at the athletic, which is now part of the New York Times. It's essentially the New York Times sports section. I mean, you actually are a New York Times writer. Do you actually present yourself as that, or is it just the athletic? I don't present myself as that, but sometimes if I'm trying to introduce myself to somebody

or sort of like a, you know, trying to explain who I am, sometimes I'll throw that in there if I think that might help. But yeah, to be honest, I really haven't processed that, that I write for the New York Times essentially. It's very bizarre. Yeah, look, you know, in this day and age, not everybody would be super impressed by that anymore, but that's a conversation for another program. But, yeah, the New York Times did away with their sports section six months ago, Ben, something like that, maybe a year ago now, and acquired the athletic, and the athletic is essentially the sports section for the New York Times,

although that's not really what you see when you, you know, log on to the athletic. Anyway, I've got Ben on because we had him on last week when he, had just put together his way too early 53-man roster projection and went through the offense of players. And we talked about some of the surprises. And I think we both said that there will probably be more surprises to the average fan in late August when the roster is cut down to 53 on defense.

So you went through this, you did it on defense, you put that out the other day. Did that turn out to be true? It did, and I probably could have had even a little bit more, you know, familiar names on the wrong side of the bubble. But, yeah, I mean, I think there's, look, we understand that the starting line up, there's still some questions across the board on defense for sure. But there are some interesting depth conversations in part because of what some of the guys

that they signed this offseason and maybe some younger players were curious to see how they fit with this new staff. But then there is the, I don't know if you want me to jump in a taste of names, but this is where the, well, I mean, I think, like, to me, Jamie Davis is the most interesting player.

I've done, I don't even know. How many podcasts I've done over, like, since, like, OTA's mini-camps, and then now in the summer, where either because I bring it up or the guest brings it up, where Jamie Davis comes up as a guy that people are fascinated to see what he can do, because we all now, right in a world, like, hey, finally, somebody is going to use him

his athletic gift in a way that makes the most sense for him, i.e., rushing towards the quarterback. And that is exciting, right? That said, you have to look at the bigger picture here, and, you know, he's not played special teams historically in his career at all. With a good reason he's been the starting linebacker the whole time. but if you're going to be the backup linebacker, you're going to have to play special teams, basically. And, you know, especially with the new kickoff rules and everything,

you know, I don't know you want somebody out there who's not really done this before. So that said, if Jamie Davis is a backup linebacker, which is clearly going to be the case, right, with Frankie Louvo and Bobby Wagner ahead of him, and frankly Jordan McGee, the fifth round pick, I think is, you know, going to emerge as a high-rotation player at that spot. But then you say, okay, well, is he an edge rusher? Oh, okay. But now look at that group, right?

You've got Doran's Armstrong. You've got Cleomphorne Farrell. You've got Dante Fowler. Jamie Davis is younger with all those guys, but those guys are like actual defensive ends, right? Then you have KJ Henry, who showed some good promise over the second half last year. He's another guy who's a natural defensive end. So all of a sudden, like, Jamie Davis, I got quite sure where he fits. And, you know, I haven't even mentioned, like, the idea of like keeping different, you know, you could keep an S.A. Obata or, you know, maybe you're keeping just an extra player in another position. I only have four linebackers on this group. And, you know, obviously there could be five, but I only had four. So I think Jamie Davis is really fascinating. So I put him outside the 53 for now. If he comes in and, you know, show great explosiveness and all that, sure, he'll stay. But if you factor in all of it, where does.

he fit in the two different position groups and special teams, I'm kind of not sure he's making the team. Yeah, I went back and found the quote from Joe Whit Jr. because I thought it was an interesting quote when he held his press conference during OTAs or minicamp whenever it was. And the quote reads as follows. He's a big, strong, fast man that has the ability to bend. We want to make sure we get our best players on the field in whatever capacity we can. We have. have a history of playing guys in positions that they may not normally be used to. We're just trying to build our best 11 guys on the field, and he's a big, fast, willing guy that's excited about doing it.

When I read that, or when I watched it, actually, because I went back and watched it, I thought it was a bit of a tell that they're really impressed with his athleticism, which is the one thing positively about Jamie Davis that has stood out during his time in D.C. And that they were going to make use of it. And they had a plan for him. I get the sense from you, not just because you've left him off, you're all too early 53, but I've had this sense from you for a while now. And maybe it was the special teams thing.

I don't know. But that you think that they're not necessarily super high on him. Is that fair? I'm not really sure what they think of him per se. You know, we've talked about this a lot. Like, there's so much new happening that watching these OTAs and many camps, I think for me, and I think I probably speak for others who are out there all the time as well. I don't really know we've got any great feel for a hierarchy in terms of the depth chart

or some of these battles. But, you know, we watched Jamie Davis be in the position of that defensive end spot. And, you know, like I'm saying, it's just tell me where he's. He's, you know, what is his role exactly, right? I mean, like... He's a Terrence Mathis, you know, specialty, third and long pass rusher. And look, maybe that shows. Look, look, I look like everybody else.

I am like everybody else. I'm fascinated to see what Jamie and Davis will look like going forward more rather than being a lot more in coverage. But, you know, again, like... So just to spread this conversation out about who's potentially in trouble. So for this exercise, I kept five defensive tackles with John Allen, Duran Payne, Johnny Newton, the obvious ones, along with John Ridgeway and Fadarian Mathis, right? Now, you might say, well, wait a minute, why do you need to keep five defensive tackles, especially when you have the top three that you have? And, you know, John Ridgeway, to this point, has shown more than Mathis, who has just, you know, frankly been injured for, you know, for a year and a year. and a half those two years in the league.

But Mathis was a second round pick a couple of years ago, not by this group, which is the point of this discussion of why some familiar names might not be in there. So if they decide at some point, hey, we only really need the four defensive tackles. We're going to move on from one. Maybe Mathis is the guy

who is left out, right? I don't even have in terms of, I had nine defensive linemen. The guys on the outside included S.A. Obata. That one, I'm just kind of assuming he may start the year on the, you know, the pop-list kind of deal coming off that significant leg injury. He didn't participate in the earlier stuff.

Javante Jean-Baptiste was the seventh-round pick. Typically, teams like to keep their guys. I guess kind of ran out of room at this point. Andre Jones, who obviously showed, you know, some flashes last year, so they certainly had the athletic traits. Like, all those guys could make the team. The reason I went with Mathis, though, over Davis was simply because of the years left on their contracts. Mathis has two, Davis has one.

Maybe that doesn't matter to this group, but, you know, if there's a world where John Allen is a potential cap cut or a trade or something after this season, then maybe they would prefer Mathis. But, you know, that's the type of situation we're looking at. I don't know if they want five-edge rushers or they're going to go with like the five, you know, the nine-beth linemen, you know, et cetera. And if you're wondering, you know, that linebacker who is over Davis, you know, I mentioned Jordan McGee's the fifth round.

pick. I think he's not just going to make a team. I think he's going to have an actual role to a degree. Anthony Pittman is another guy. He came over from the Lions, clearly a Lance Newmark guy he likes, and he's a pure special team player. I don't even mention here, I think it's Mikhail or Michael Walker, who was, he's been an actual starting linebacker in this lead, who also has played special teams. Like, he could be ahead of Davis. Kandre Jones hasn't played a ton of this league, but he was another guy brought over, I believe, for a look at special teams. So, you know, ultimately how they view the roster is, you know, what they think they need.

I think it's a bit of a mystery because of the special teams aspect. But also, I just, Dan Quinn and Cliff Kingsbury and Joe Witt and Adam Peters, we've never seen them before together. So that's going to be the mystery. But I just think there's a lot of ways to go that don't involve Davis unless he just, you know, really pops. And they say, yeah, we got to leave him here. We got to keep him in and see what we can get out of it. By the way, I didn't mean Terrence Mathis, Robert Mathis.

When I said Terrence Mathis, I'm like, wasn't he a receiver? It's Robert Mathis, who, you know, essentially was like the same size and same build as Jamon Davis and really was an excellent edge pass rusher and really became that as a specialty, especially later in his career in Indianapolis. But anyway, I don't, I think it would be, I'll tell you what, man, if Jamon Davis gets, you know, released and isn't on this team, I mean, we look back at Ron, I mean, we can already do that, right? We can already look back at the four years of Ron drafts and just almost giggle at them, certainly early. I mean, Chase Young, Jamie Davis, the first two first rounders. We'll see what happens with Dotson, but then Forbes.

I mean, what a disastrous drafting run for this franchise early. You know, they've hit on some players, you know, after the first round. You know, go back to that first year, Antonio Gibson was, you know, big and Cameron Curl, obviously. And they, you know, had guys like Benjamin St. Juice and Sam Cosmey and Derek Forrest be big contributors from the 21 draft. and we'll see what happens with the 22 draft. But God, you talk about a stretch of whiffs in the first round. I mean, the jury's out on Forbes, but if they cut Davis, young in Davis, zero careers, zero impact, and gone.

Yeah, well, look, I mean, even if Jamie Davis stays on the team, he'd have to show a lot, I would think, to stay beyond next year when his contract expires, right? they already declined his fifth year option. So really is this is a contract year for him. So either way, I would, you know, it would be hard to set this to predict he'll be on the team in 2025. So to your point, it's already not looking good. And after the first year when they moved him from the Mike spot to outside,

that was already a major indication that they had kind of bought this. And then they never really figured out how to use him. Again, we all seem to think that will go forward, especially that year when Chase Young was out. It just, well, why would you not try in there? But their linebacker room was, you know, really bad. They just didn't have anybody, so they kind of had to use him almost because they didn't have anybody else. Should have taken Derasaw in that draft.

We could do that with every draft, but that would have been a pretty good pick. All right. So, D-line, you know, not as jarring in terms of your omissions as a linebacker, where your all too early 53-man projection does not include Jamon Davis. Real quickly on Jordan McGee, because he's been somebody that we've talked about and others have talked about here early, long before, months before he plays his first college game.

But what is it that they love about him? Is it just his overall athleticism and motor? Yeah, I think that's the main point at the, this stage, you know, I don't know if they definitively see him as the long-term Mike linebacker with Bobby Wagner only here on a one-year deal, but I would think that's what they're going to try to look at going forward. And, you know, I just can say, you know, right after the draft, and, you know, speaking to people around the league, hey, what do you think about the commander's draft? Obviously, we came in, Jayden Daniels as part of that conversation,

but more than a couple of scouts or others brought up McGee unfulicited just to say, like, hey, this is a guy that, you know, sort of like on a pound-for-pound level of prospects. We really liked a lot. So I think that was a really good pick by Washington. So, yeah, you know, I think they're going to see what they can do and how he can, you know, when given any opportunities, mostly in practice to, you know, run the huddle, so to speak, or play that spot, I think it's going to be really fascinating. So, yeah, I think they have high hopes for him going forward.

And I do think, you know, he's, I had a guess. I think he's probably the third line back. You know, we'll see. I think one of the questions on defenses, how much is Bobby Wagner play on passing down? Exactly. He's lost the step there, but he still was playing almost every snap with Seattle.

What is Washington do here? You obviously want his leadership on the field, but at the same time, you know, if teams are attacking that, that's not great. So does McGee become that replacement? And maybe he doesn't. Maybe they go six defensive backs at that point. But, yeah, I'm interested to see how McGee helps them.

here and what it means going forward. Yeah, and to have McGee and Louvo on the field at the same time, you know, may give you some real athletic versatility. All right, you're going to come back and be a part of my Friday show, and we'll talk about what you did on the All-53 as it relates to the secondary word. There will be some really tough decisions. All right, thanks for doing this. Appreciate it.

Of course. The second half of my conversation with Zabe from the other day, where he discusses Jaden Daniels, the state of the current football franchise here in Washington, and talks Rory McElroy and more. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, most of us are interested in our mental and physical well-being to a certain degree. And with that in mind, I'd like to welcome and introduce a new sponsor to the podcast. The new sponsor is Unified Healing, Unified spelled U.S.

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the new ownership group and just the whole new vibe with our Washington football team. I'm happy for you guys. I'm excited. I consciously hope that Daniels is not RG4, as I've heard some people refer to them. Everything I've read and heard and seen says he's not that he is a passer. He has passing instincts. He has passing touch and accuracy. And so I hope that's the case. He is Woffer thin. Not quite as thin as

that corner you guys took last year, who I saw some photos of during the mini camps going, Jesus, give him a fucking cheeseburger for God. The manual Forbes, yeah. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I just hope he doesn't break.

I mean, part of the problem was, even though he was very pastor in college, Because he's athletic, he could and would run. And he gets out on the open planes, and it's like, yaha, let's go. And we all know that these quarterbacks are only one big car crash from being fucked up for good, like good old RG3 was when Hologi Nottis dumped trucked his knee.

The difference is RG3 was never that sophisticated of a passer or accurate of a passer. And so therefore, he had to run more. And then once that component was taken away, the whole thing fell apart. And he's delusional and a lot of other things. So I hope that Daniels is different. I'm excited for him to be that guy.

But, you know, there's always a bit of, you know, cautious. All right, let's just see this first. New ownership group looks great. Happy for that. I don't like the fact they named an official team dog. That feels like something that the old regime would have done. But, hey, it is what it is. and they ripped up the old shitty Astroof at Redskins Park after all these years,

which let me go on a side rant about that. So having done shows at Redskin Park with Cooley for four or five years, I believe it was, and seeing the kind of negligence about this is not a top plate facility in the NFL by any means, that emanates from the top, from the guy in the biggest corner office in Snyder. And he either didn't understand or didn't give a shit or was too cheap to be. do it. So for years, I'm like, why do you have this throwback, 1970-style piece of rock-hard astroturf right here? Get rid of this shit. And I would hear excuses like, well, we like to use the setup tents for the VIPs when we're doing training camp. And I'm like, who cares? Fucking set them up on

real grass and then take them down. I heard things like, well, technically Redskins Park is in a flood plane. So, you know, we can't because of permitting, remove it. I'm like, this is. It all sounds like bullshit. So the new regime comes in, and one of the first things they do is they look at this, and they're like, yeah, this needs to go. This is useless and stupid, and they spend the money to get rid of it. Little things like that aren't necessarily going to lead to more wins on a field she-in. It tells me that they have smart people paying attention who are not tightwads.

So that, I think, is a hopeful sign. You know, you started off that answer with, I hope for you guys that Jay, Well, I say you guys, because you guys are in the thick of it. You're analyzing and rooting for this team. But you know where I'm going with us. You know where I'm going. I know. You're doing it day to day.

I'm out of the day-to-day grinding on every little thing about the team. And so therefore, I feel like it's more you guys, my friends in the media and fans of the team still. Look, I actually, we've had this conversation before. I don't have anywhere near the passion level I once had. Now, let me just tell you, I'm a massive Jaden Daniels fan. Back in October, I was talking about Jaden Daniels as being in the midst of one of the best seasons I've ever watched, and I wanted Washington once it became clear that they would have a chance to draft them. I wanted them to draft them.

So from that standpoint, you know, as we all have in this business, we now have, have a, let's see if I'm right, you know, to play out here. But I'm not passionate about this team like I used to be. We had it sucked out of us over 20 years, 25 years. And I wonder if I were doing a show like you are in a different market. Zabe was, you know, always much more of a national talk show host in addition to being a great local talk show host. I never did what Zab's done in his career. And so having, doing this show in Milwaukee and having a focus on the Packers and the Bucks and Wisconsin Sports, etc.

I wonder if I would have lost complete interest in the team. And I sense that that's where you are now. And I would, and I understand it to a certain degree if it's true, is it? Part of it is, part of it is the bandwidth of attention. How much do you have? Part of it is, if I'm not going to be on the air in D.C., why do I care to grind on who the left tackle is going to be, and if he's going to be good enough, right? You only had so many hours in the day, right?

But a huge component of this, and we've been through it time and again, is the name and the logo. If you brought back just the logo and called him the Washington Warriors, but replaced the logo with the original Blackie Wetzel. Wetzel. Wetzel. Wattel. If you bring back the Blackie Wettel dignified Indian head logo

and called them the Warriors, if you soften the political incorrectness, I would almost certainly be back in terms of interest in the team, not necessarily on the air, but I would be much more into it. The name is huge to me. The name of the team I grew up. up and loved was the Washington Redskins.

They died. I'm very sad about it. But it's a crossing for me. What can I say? Now that said, I did rip the Packers and their fans after the draft this spring. Do you want to hear that story real quick? I do.

So the draft comes, and of course everyone's just like ooing and awing about, oh, look at the value that Brian Goody. Because of God, this pick, this pick, you know, look at all these young players we have. And, it's great. Jordan Love looks like the real deal.

Okay. I went on the air the day after the draft and I said, okay, hey, just a question here. When is this team going to win anything? Oh,

people were so mad. I go, I'm sorry, but you have fewer Super Bowls from the time that Farr won his in New Orleans than the Buccaneers

and the Giants and the Rams. You're title town. You're the Green Bay F and Packers. It does it not embarrass you that those non-luminary teams that don't hold their noses in the air as having basically invented pro football have more titles than you in that span? And considering the quarterbacking this team has had win something. The point is not look how shrewd we are. Look at how we've placed Rogers with a quarterback who looks like it could be every bit as good.

win. And I'm like, how about this year? Well, you know, we're still very young and I think the window's going to be, I go, da-da-da-da-da. What did you win this year? Why shouldn't you think win this year? You had the Niners dead to write in their building for a chance to go play in the NOSC title game. You were as close as about anybody would get. Win now. And a lot of listeners just didn't like me saying that. And more than a fairer. few gave me the whole go back to Washington thing. It's a fascinating

dynamic there in terms of so Midwest night and being a Packer fan and going to Packer games, having Packer Party is such a part of the culture that, man, they don't get pissed off when the team doesn't win

as much as they should. So I gave them that little dose of East Coast asshole that I think they need a little bit of perspective. Because you know what? They haven't won shit since 2010. That's 14 years. Yeah.

I mean, but I think the angle it sounds like you may have taken, too, which is really good, is just stop breaking your arms, patting yourself on the back for being so shrewd with having, you know, not had a need for quarterback for 30-something years. We haven't won anything. That's the goal. Yeah, there's all these regular season, you know, double-digit win season. Look, the Cowboys are in the same boat, right?

They haven't won since 1996 or the 95 season, 96 Super Bowl. I think that's what it was. But they have all these double-digit win seasons. But yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. No, I love that. Such a nice,

such a conservative, nice franchise, because they don't have an asshole with a $700 million yacht. Right. And most NFL teams have that guy. Even the non-assol owners like Shod Khan, he's got a yacht. They all love yachts, right?

Packers don't have an owner. There's no one asshole with a yacht making impulsive dumb decision. But Joe Barry, as you remember, defensive coordinator, he was in Washington, was a known problem for just being a soft coverage guy through and through. And it was getting to a point where it's like, come on, man. And what happened? In the rain in San Francisco with a four-point lead and a quarterback in Brock Purdy, who wasn't having the best of night,

might have been a bit nervous in that spot. Engineer is a game-winning driver with him right down the field against him. He rushed more than four guys only one time, one time in that entire series. And I go, well, fired him a year ago, as many people were saying, and people were like, oh, well, we can't fire him. He's too nice. We don't do that. We're not going to act like these other NFL teams that make irrational firings

because they're mad. And I'm like, it's not irrational. He's not good. He's LaFleur's buddy. Someone needs to lean on the floor to go. He's got to go. Your defense is a minus. This is what's holding you back.

But as a nice franchise, without the guy on the yacht, sometimes persistent problems linger. And this was the same with their special teams coach who sucked at. And they should have fired him. And they're like, well, that would just be mean. And how much better would the special teams be if we got rid of them.

Well, next thing you know, at Bo Field, five degrees, I was there freezing my jiblets off, and pump-pump, next thing you know, halodi-nata is a, not Hologna,

but Tologna Hufongonga of the nine- is in the end zone with a blocked punt on like the worst punt execution you've ever seen, and I threw my hands up, and I said,

well, maybe you'd be the new guy would have buttoned that aspect up, but we don't know now, and the season's over. That was the worst of the losses, that one, because that was so, I mean, what they had to be close to a double-digit favorite maybe in that game. They were, they had the one seed.

Yeah. And they were at home against the Niners team with their quarterback. Carapolo had one arm. His shoulder was all fucked up. And they were down. They were down so many running backs. they were using Debo Samuel as a tailback. Right.

Much of the game. And when the game was on the line, so they're going to get a block on, now they're behind. They need tie game. They need Rogers to just engineer a 40-yard drive in the field goal position. Three and out,

as Rogers looked old and cold and unwilling to kind of engineer a drive. It was very telling. Now, granted, I've never been that cold in my life, Sheehan, and it was one where I had heated socks, a heated jacket, battery-powered jacket, okay? Heated socks, hand-warmers, and thankfully by the time I got out of the stadium was when the chills started to hit, and I thought I was going to go into violent convulsions before I got indoors. It was bad. Oh, God bless you. I would have been watching that one from the studio.

But that was a horrific defeat. Like losing to Brady in the conference championship game. Bad. Not as bad as that, though. No, not as bad as that. That was bad. This was worse. Midwest, nice, you've got to deal with.

That's hysterical. And it's different. It's so much different. All right. It's what makes the people and the culture wonderful. Right. I urge anyone who's never been there to experience it, but it has an Achilles heel. Most of the time, it leads to good, solid, sensible management.

It's why they've been good and relevant so long. But when you need that edge, that kind of fuck you edge. And this is another part of my rant. I go, the Chiefs, they've won three of these things in five years. You know why? Because they have that FU edge. You know, their star wide receiver is on tape. threatening to kill his girlfriend, Tyree Kill.

Did they panic and cut the guy right away? No, they slow walking. They're like, whoa, well, you know, we're going to see. And they let things simmer down. Then they use them for a year, and they win the Super Bowl. And then the first big offer they get for them, they go back in the fuck you mode, and they go, yeah, we'll trade them. And they get a haul back in return for Tyree Kill. They have an edge to them as a franchise of, we want to win.

I'm like, get some of that edge. Yeah. And, you know, as a publicly owned team without actually somebody in that big office other than the president and CEO, which Mark Murphy was just replaced, it's, yeah, it's different, but it's different in personality as well.

All right, per usual, we've gone well past the time that either one of us was expecting, but I love talking to you, and I know people are enjoying this, but I've got to ask you about Rory. First of all, where does it rank in terms of the open choke in all-time chokes.

And then how do you think he comes back from that? Well, it's a it was a two-yip. And I know people say to me, oh, come on, Dave, the one on 18 was lightning fat, breaking away from him. Right. He still had a chance to, you know, if DeCambeau didn't get up and down for par, he would have been in a playoff.

And I'm like, he's a profession. Like, to me, the put on 18 fast and scary as it was needed to be a Yolo put, which is, I'm going to hit it solid, it's going to be moving fast, it may pop the back of the cup, but it's going in or it's going 12 feet past, and I don't give a fuck. And he didn't have the courage in that moment. The one on 16 was just a straight-up yet. And, you know, as a guy who's battled out myself, it made me sick. Now, I'm not as much of a Rory Stan as I used to be. The whole live thing and how he either caped up for the PGA tour unwittingly and got used by Monaghan or whether he was just a waffling douchebag. I don't know.

I'm not a huge Rory stand anymore, but I still like him. I mean, I still think he's a good guy for the most part. So, yeah, it was terrible. But what a week for Deschambe. What a moment for DeChambo. What a way to reinvent himself. I was just marveling at how so few athletes who gain a reputation or a consent to some. of this guy's a dick.

Yeah. Are ever able to turn it around. True. And he did it because of YouTube. He did it because of YouTube and the way he had sort of realized, okay, I'm coming off as a prick here. I don't need to. Let's kind of reinvent myself.

And so I think a better version of him has emerged. So good for DeCambo. But will Rory recover from this? Do you see him winning a major? Well, what's recover, win another major? Yeah. I mean, he's got to win another major. I mean, when I say he has to, he's a Hall of Fame golfer.

He's one of the greatest we've ever seen. But, I mean, if he doesn't... He does or does not, I'm sorry. No, he will. He will win a major. I don't know if it's going to be the Masters. The Man is he needed. The Masters would be such a person.

I mean, it's so hard to be in that club with all four. Very elite company right there. I don't know if he'll get it. Sometimes I think he wants it too much. But, no, he'll win another one. He's too fucking good. Thanks for doing this, as always. Bye, buddy.

Appreciate it. I'll watch that on my podcast sometime soon. Whenever you ask, I'll do it. Thanks for doing this. All right. All right, buddy. Good to talk to you. All right.

That is it for the day. I will have a show tomorrow with Tommy.