The Kevin Sheehan Show - Uniforms, JJ Watt, & Wilbon

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

Kevin opened the show with an NBA Finals Game 7 recap. He also talked Washington "uniforms", RFK, Fred Smith's Skins' legacy, and a suggested trade involving JJ Watt and Terry McLaurin. Mike Wilbon jumped on to talk NBA Finals and NBA Draft. Doug Kammerer/NBC 4 joined Kevin to talk about DC's heat wave. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. The Thunder had taken the NBA by storm for the first time. Ambient resides in Oklahoma City. The storybook season is complete. Mike Breen, counting down the final few seconds of the 2024,

2025 NBA season last night, the Oklahoma City Thunder are champs. But there will always be when it comes to conversation. about game seven in 2025, a huge what-if attached to those conversations. The show's presenting sponsor as always, Window Nation, 86690 Nation or Windonation.com, if you need new windows. Two guests on the show with me today,

Mike Wilbonne next segment, followed by Channel 4's Doug Cammer. Doug's going to come on the show and talk about this intense heat wave, we are in the midst of. How long will it last? Will it get worse? And is this going to be a summer to remember? Doug Cammer, final segment of the show today.

I will start the show with Game 7 last night. But I do have some football. A couple of topics that are football related in this opening segment before we get to Wilbon. Look, the what if last night is what if Tyree? Ries Halliburton doesn't get hurt. We knew going into game six, he had the calf strain. That calf strain always presented, you know, the possibility of it leading to something much worse, which it did. Torn Achilles, he's out for months and months. But that was confirmed

today that he did tear his Achilles late in the first quarter of last night's seventh and deciding game of the NBA finals. But he was on fire. when he got hurt. And when he has started games aggressively like he did last night, those have been his best games. When he's gone missing in some of these playoff games, he starts off that way. Last night in seven minutes, he made three threes, and Indiana was very much in the game. In fact, going into this game, I really thought they had a chance. I picked Oklahoma City at the of this series. I picked him going back to late first round, early second round to win the whole thing. I thought this thing would be over in five. I was dead wrong. And after game three,

I said, this thing's going seven and anybody can win it. I mean, I picked Oklahoma City, even, you know, adjusting from five to seven games. But going into last night's game, I really thought Indiana had a chance. This series was dead even, you know, throughout the seven games. Now, Halliburton's health was going to be huge, and him going down with 455 to go in the first quarter was a devastating injury to him personally, of course, to the future of the franchise, but to the game last night. I think if he stays healthy, Indiana would have had a chance to win the game. I think we certainly would have seen maybe a game that came down to the wire for the first time since game one. I would

was really rooting for a memorable seventh game. Because this series, even to those of us that were really into it, it's not going to be one of those series that is remembered forever. You know, seven games, yes. But really, the only dramatic conclusion to any of the seven games was game one. And that was the game that really allowed Indiana to turn it into a long series. I mean, they got dominated. in that game for about 46 of the 48 minutes and then somehow took their very first lead with,

I think it was three-tenths of a second left to steal game one. But the way Halliburton started last night, I thought Indiana would have had, and I thought they were going to have a legitimate chance. Look, Oklahoma City was the best team in the NBA, regular season and postseason. The reason they won the NBA title was number one defense. And as Coach Thompson would say, count five spots to get to your next reason. This was an elite defensive basketball team. One of the best I've ever witnessed in the NBA postseason. I've talked a lot about that over the last two months about how great they are defensively.

Indiana was excellent defensively as well. they let them play. You know, the entire postseason, the referees let teams play and let teams be physical defensively. Those bitching and complaining about Oklahoma City being overly physical, Indiana was to the entire series. They allowed a lot of grabbing, a lot of bumping, you know, a lot of mauling at times. And that's the way this series sort of played out. You saw two tired teams. You saw two tired teams. teams, you know, late in this series. And you saw that in other series during the postseason as well. But Oklahoma City is a deserving champion. Despite what happened last night and the what could have been if Halliburton had stayed healthy, Oklahoma City was the best team in the regular season, winning 68 games. And they were the best team in the postseason. And they were the best team because they were the best defensive team. Interesting that in the last two Super Bowls, we've seen defense make a big, big return to, you know, impacting the outcome of Super Bowl games.

Philadelphia, you know, the Eagles defense dominant against the Chiefs and really the Chiefs defense the year before against the 49ers. And we saw defense be the story of these NBA champions this year. Oklahoma City just eight, nine, ten guys. There was no weak link. There was nobody to attack. They were all great individual defenders. They played great team defense. They were very well coached defensively. They were a team that forced a lot of turnovers that was obviously the key to last night's game and pretty much the key to all four of their wins. Turnovers, steals leading to points. Last night, Indiana had 22 turnovers that led to 32 Oklahoma City points. And of those 22 turnovers, they had 14 steals. And I don't

know if it would have been that bad with Halliburton in the game, but it's not like Halliburton didn't take part in a couple of games in this series as a healthy player where Indiana was throttled by Oklahoma City's defense. See game one, see parts of game four, see game five. Chet Holmgren had five block shots, probably altered another three or four shots in the game. I thought Caruso's threes early were big, and then the stretch at 56-56 in the third quarter, and really, the third quarter was going to be huge. If somebody could really get out to a sizable lead, especially Oklahoma City with no Halliburton, I thought that could do it. And at 56-56 with about eight and a half to go,

in Oklahoma City SGA made a three Holmgren made a three and then Jalen Williams made a three. They went from tied at 56 to a nine point lead. In the meantime there were two steals and the defense

just went up several notches the rest of that quarter as they built from 56-56 to a 13-point lead at the end of the quarter. And then Indiana didn't score in the fourth quarter for the first four and a half minutes. And at that point, the lead had gone to 22 and it was pretty much ballgame. They got it back to 10.

T.J. McConnell played his ass off. But you saw the difference between a guy that was asked to, you know, essentially be the starter at point guard versus coming off the bench. Halliburton, you know, had some turnovers and had turnover-ridden games. McConnell, 16 points in 28 minutes, but seven turnovers. He's dribbling into terrible spots on the floor where he got trapped and turned it over. It was Oklahoma City's defense. It was.

The MVP of the series was the MVP of the regular season. Of course, Shea Gilgis Alexander. He was very good last night. I don't think it was anywhere near his best game of the postseason. when you go 8 of 27 from the floor, two of 12 from behind the arc. He took some bad shots, some quick shots, missed badly on some shots, but he still ended up with 29 and 12 assists. He becomes just the fourth player in NBA history to win a regular season MVP,

to win the scoring title, and to win the NBA finals MVP on a championship. championship team. Karim did it. Jordan did it. Shack did it. Put SGA into that category. I love Shea Gilgis Alexander. I'll be honest with you, though. I don't think he's the best player in the league. I think he earned and deserved the MVP with the season that he had. I thought he was outstanding through the postseason. I think he's a fun player to watch. I know many don't agree. I love the old school nature of his game. I really like him. unbelievable humility, unbelievable team player. That team is just a really solid, mature group,

considering how young they are, the youngest team to win an NBA title since the 77 Portland Trailblazers. But SGA deserved the MVP, no doubt. Again, I didn't think he was great last night. I thought he took some bad shots, quick shots. still 29 and 12 averaged over 30. Jalen Williams, another not great shooting night, but hit some big threes. He ended up with 20. I thought Chet Holmgren with the five block shots, 18 points to go with it was outstanding.

I thought Lou Dort was phenomenal on defense and Caruso hit some big shots, as did Case and Wallace. Oklahoma City was the best team. They deserved it. We'll always have the conversation, those of us that you know, enjoyed these NBA playoffs. And I've really enjoyed the last two months about, you know, whether or not Indiana could have won a seventh and deciding game with a healthy Tyrese Halliburton. The questions will be asked, certainly about the Indiana coaching staff and organizational responsibility for Halliburton tearing his Achilles last night. Everybody understands the calf strains, especially moderate to severe calf strains, have to be rested or, you know, a, real serious Achilles injury as possible.

But it's Game 7 people of the NBA championship. I don't fault anybody. This is the mindset of, you know, people who are trying to win a championship and you were 48 minutes away from that. And let's not forget, he had played well in game six. He didn't play a lot of minutes in game six, but he played well and he came out of that game looking pretty good. There is one part of me that says Oklahoma City has a chance to go on a big run, but we've said that, you know, with the bucks a few years ago with Denver, injuries mean a lot.

Here's the one thing that Oklahoma City has to improve upon. They're not a great offensive basketball team. They won this title with defense creating offense. And they did a lot. lot of that during the regular season. But when the game slowed down and became a half-court game, which it does in the postseason, I thought they were disorganized, unstructured, and just not good enough, really. I wonder if Boston had remained healthy, come back against the Knicks, and they were the opponent for Oklahoma City, whether they would have been able to beat Boston in a best of seven. they just don't look well-coached offensively. Stagnant. It's not pure iso ball like, you know,

Brunson and the Knicks, you know, or Donchich or Hardin, but it's too stagnant at times. They don't move people defensively. They don't seem to have a plan to do that. There is some pick and roll that works. They have a couple of set plays that they seem to run coming out of timeouts, but they had some games in which their offense,

just was not very good. They also could not handle full court pressure throughout this series. Amazing to me. And I'm sure any of you that have been involved in basketball to watch an NBA team struggle to get the ball in bounds against full court pressure. You know, I suggested, I think it was after game three when both teams were full court pressing. Use your bigs to come down and help Holmgren and Hartenstein.

They used Holmgren last night a couple of times, and it worked, and then they didn't. Yeah, it's not a great offensive basketball team. They're not a great shooting team. They're streaky. It's their defense. They won this title because they were by far and away, the best defensive team, and one of the best defensive teams and one of the deepest defensive teams we've ever seen. And, you know, let's face it, you know, the last couple of years and,

particular, they're letting them play more. They're letting the NBA regular season, you know, distance itself even further from the postseason in terms of the product and the style of play. I enjoyed watching. I've always enjoyed watching really good defensive basketball. I like it in football, too. And well-coached, it was. You know, SGA's a hell of a defender. Jalen Williams, incredible. Lou Dort, good God. They won it with defense. but they got to find somebody to help them offensively. I'm convinced that with their youth and with their setup, they've got 13 projected first round picks over the next seven years.

That's insane. Sam Presti, you know, all-time job that he's done with OKC. But I think they're going to have to become a better half-court offensive team. They got playmakers. They got a dude in SGA that, is incredible. They got to be better offensively. But there you go. The NBA season's over. The last two months were incredibly enjoyable. As a sports fan, as a basketball fan, there are going to be games and series. I think the Houston Golden State series in round one was insane. The Thunder Nugget

series was insane. That went to seven. Knicks Pistons, Nick's Pacers, Nick Celtics, just a lot of really entertaining days and nights over the last two months. All right. Before we get to Wilbon, a couple of things. This from Richard P. who was listening to the radio show. Kevin, great news. Will they bring back the old logo?

So this morning on radio, I responded to a bunch of correspondence from over the weekend about uniforms. I guess there was a picture of the helmet with the spear, the arrow with the feather, and people started, you know, wondering, whoa, is this an indication that something's going to happen here? I didn't say anything on radio that I haven't said since last October. There was no new news. I think my radio station may have put it out as new news. They kind of do that with social media.

But to cut to the chase, I said the same thing. in response to people who were, you know, wondering about uniform changes that I said last October, I think before anybody said it, when I said, look, I have been told that the name is still, you know, certainly in play, but if they decide not to do anything with the name, they will do something with the uniforms, meaning going back to something that resembles the previous uniforms before, the rebrand in 2022. And as I said back then, and I've said many times since, it'll start with some of the alternate uniform opportunities in 2025, and then it'll blend into either a full scale change in

2026 or 2027. That's what I was told way back in the fall. I have stuck with that. I haven't been told otherwise that anything is any different than what I was told all the way back in the fall. I don't think the old logo, the Wetzel family logo, is coming back. It's not a fit with the name, and they're sticking with the name. And my guess is, you know, the W will still be a part of the helmet, but I don't have any specific information on what the helmet and what the actual logo will be. I just think we will get, you know, a true kind of old burgundy and gold versus

the cranberry and whatever, and it'll look more like the universe. I think that'd be a great thing. Look, we're not getting the name, you know, not now anyway. You know, we can thank Jaden Daniels 12 and 5, two playoff wins on the road for that, which was thrilling to watch, obviously. But yeah, Richard P., I didn't have anything new. I was just responding to a lot of people who brought it up because I guess some of the pictures that are out there. I don't think the team has said anything officially. And again, I'll just go back to what I first had back in October. I think that there will be uniform changes. And we will have something that actually resembles the team that we used to root for.

This from Mitchell. Mitchell writes Kevin, RFK's in trouble. The city is blowing it. And you nailed the reasons why last week with Tommy. Bureaucrats just don't move with the same urgency. is the private sector, and this is driving team ownership nuts. Maryland will be back on the table by next month.

Mark my words. So Mitchell, you're right about the movement of government in cases like this, and that's what I really hammered at last week. It drives me nuts. I can only imagine what, you know, guys like Josh Harris and Mark Eind and Mitch Rails. I mean, they got to deal with this, you know, and it's not the way and the pace in which they get things done. I think the city and the team are going to get a deal done. I do.

And I think it'll be voted on before the July 15th deadline. I'm not reporting anything. I haven't heard anything. I just think it will get done. I think everybody wants it. It's the city's council. It's the city council's job to get the best deal. And I'm sure, you know, the individuals on the city council.

council want their pound of flesh for a yes vote. I think this gets done. You know, I'll tell you one thing that I just, I think about every once in a while is just the fact that this incredibly valuable piece of land where this stadium is sat for decades now. And yeah, there's been some soccer played in the stadium and some baseball was played in the stadium, you know, at this point, 17, 18 years ago, whatever it was. But the value of that land and what it could have been producing for the city for all of these years and yet nothing's been done. You know, we've had other major projects in the city, obviously the wharf, et cetera. They can't let this opportunity of a football franchise offering $2.7 billion towards this project.

They can't let this crumble. They're not going to. It gets done. It gets done. Two more things quickly, and then we'll get to Wilbon, and then eventually Doug Kammer. The first of which is Fred Smith passed away over the weekend, the founder of Federal Express, the minority shareholder of the Redskins with Dan Snyder for all of those years. Sympathies to Fred Smith's family, you know, many in that family because he was

a longtime owner of the Redskins, they followed the team and maybe were even fans of the team and maybe were even listeners to podcasts and radio shows that talked about the team. So for those family members of Fred Smith, sympathies to all of you, what a great American business story Fred Smith was, the founder of Federal Express in the early 1970s, so many great stories about the early years of Federal Express. You know, there's that story that if you followed the passing of Fred Smith over the weekend that was written about many times, you know, they were down to their last few thousand dollars. They couldn't fuel the planes. They couldn't make payroll. And he took $5,000 to Vegas and made $27,000 playing blackjack. That allowed

them to stay alive just long enough to attract new investors that came in and saved the company. I don't know how much of that is hyperbole, but there's some great stories attached to the early days of Federal Express. Of course, you know, most of you listening note the Federal Express, Fred Smith, but you also know Fred Smith because along with Dwight Schar and Robert Rothman, they were Dan Snyder's minority owners. They were bought out, remember, in 2021 for what turned out to be not the greatest of values for them. The three of them at the time owned roughly 40% of the team, I think it was 40.5%. And they sold their stake at a valuation of $2.4 billion.

And of course, we know that the team would sell two years later for just over $1,000. $6 billion. Now, when you're selling a minority stake, you don't get the full-fledged value, but they were selling it back to Dan, and the team was valued at $2.4 billion in that moment. And of course, they were not happy about the valuation. I don't think they're happy today. I think they felt like there was a lot of information withheld, and maybe some of the information that was provided wasn't exactly accurate. But these three minority owners of the Redskins, came to, you know, dislike Snyder like everybody did after you were around him for a while. They felt that they were not, you know, dealt with in an honest way that's, you know, then Snyder,

remember, stopped the dividend checks, couldn't explain, you know, $55 million loans was withholding a lot of information that should have been shared with the three of them. and, you know, particularly Fred Smith and Dwight Schar became, you know, really upset with Snyder and sort of went into revenge mode, vindictive mode. Remember, Schar, you know, allegedly with this Indian internet company, you know, launched a smear campaign against Snyder in which he was tied to Jeffrey Epstein and to drug trafficking and sex trafficking. I mean,

Sharr is never allowed ever again to own even a penny of NFL equity in a team, which tells you that, you know, the allegations, there may have been some truth associated with them. And then, of course,

Fred Smith, he went for the jugular. In the summer of 2020, he had had it with Snyder. They all had. And he went for the name, you know, and this is where,

sort of the view of Fred Smith from Redskin fans gets a little, you know, cloudy, you know, a little complicated. You know, he was part of a minority ownership group that was instrumental, along with, by the way, many women that came forward to talk about their experience working for the Redskins. The Washington Post, which had that huge story in the summer of 2020, July of 2020, that, uh, that, uh, brought forth the story initially of like, I think, 16 of the women eventually would grow to like 42 women. All of that, you know, with the, you know, Fred Smith, Dwight Schar, Robert Rothman, you know, dissatisfaction with Snyder started the process that led to Snyder ultimately selling the team. But we also remember what Fred Smith did in the summer of 2020. July 3rd, 2020, the announcement, Federal Express will not do business, will end their partnership

with the Washington football franchise if they don't drop the team name, the racist team name. You know, for a lot of you guys out there, Fred Smith, on one hand, had a big hand in Snyder eventually, you know, selling the team. But on the other hand, in the summer of 20, he did something that is still felt to this day. He started the process, not started the process, he was the process in the team losing Redskins. And it seemed more, you know, in the moment, but certainly a lot more in hindsight,

something incredibly vindictive rather than virtuous. You know, he had made millions off of his relationship with the team. And millions off, even the $2.4 billion valuation as an owner. So it didn't just occur to him in 2020 that the team name is terrible and we have to do something about it. And our investors and our, you know, customers don't want us to be associated with a name so hideously racist and insensitive.

This was going after Snyder. in a very personal way, and I think most people see it that way. And at the same time, there's only one person to blame for the loss of the name. It's Dan. I said this so many times during all those years, nobody over the course of time took a brick and smacked himself in the head with it over and over again as much as Dan did. He just never could see a step ahead strategically. it was always impulsive.

It was always arrogant, angry, and usually stupid. And treating his minority shareholders, the way he treated him, backfired in a major way on him. For us, ultimately, it was a part of him moving on, which we wouldn't trade, but it was also a part with Fred Smith's involvement of the team losing its name. It's also very possible in, you know, season summer of 2020 with things getting canceled left and right and, you know, all of these

longstanding brands getting, you know, swept up in the summer of 2020, that the name would have been swept up anyway, even without Fred Smith's impetus in, you know, getting it, you know, dropped. But he will be attached to that for a lot of Redskins fans. But also an incredible business. business story and part of the beginning, you know, stages of Snyder losing grip of his football team. The last thing real quickly, because several of you sent this to me, gentlemen by the name of David Hellman, who writes for Fox Sports, wrote a story today, I guess earlier this morning, suggesting trades that could still happen before this season. and he's got Terry going to the Las Vegas Raiders for a couple of picks.

He didn't specifically mention the picks. And then he's got T.J. Watt getting dealt to Washington. You know, T.J. Watt, like if you told me, and it would not be straight up, T.J. Watt's got more value than Terry McClorn. He just does. but if you told me T.J. Watt to Washington, but you lose Terry McLaren and maybe, you know, a pick or two because something else

is going to have to go back to the Steelers for T.J. Watt. That would be pretty attractive. I don't think it's going to happen. This is just, you know, one of those midsummer, hey, got an idea. Several of you thought it was a report. It's not a report. He actually says in his,

write-up of Terry. He says, I'm incredibly confident Terry McCorn will remain a commander. He's been loyal to the franchise, even when times weren't so good. He's done nothing but produce, even when he didn't have a star quarterback. He even held out before as he used this strategy to secure his current extension back in 2022. I really don't think Washington will let him walk when it finally has a chance to contend. Again, you can't let him walk. I mean, you would have to trade him. He's under contract for this year. But he writes, if I'm dreaming up a perfect landing spot for Terry McClorn, Vegas sounds about right. And then he says about T.J. Watt. Again, I'm not buying that the Steelers would do this. Watt is an iconic piece of that franchise, but says if they did,

Washington would be the right place to send him. Again, for those of you that sent this to me, this is not a report. This is, you know, midsummer conversation. But just the idea, of like a swap with maybe another pick thrown in, T.J. Watt for Terry McClorn. Yeah, of course Washington should do that. I'd rather see T.J. Watt here with Terry McClorn. That would be the best result. T.J. Watt's not going anywhere. He's going to sign a big deal. And Terry's not going anywhere. He's going to eventually sign a big deal. And as I said on Friday's show, the worst case is he plays in Washington on his final year. I don't think that'll happen, but I don't see Terry McClearn playing anywhere but Washington in Washington in 2025. MyBooky.ag is the place to bet on sports

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Mike Wilbon is with us on the day following a game seven in the NBA final. at Real Mike Wilbon on X on Twitter. You weren't there last night. You're out in Arizona, but I know you've been watching, and I was watching you on all of the shows during the first three rounds of the playoffs. So I'll just start with this. Do you think Indiana wins the game last night if Tyrese Halliburton doesn't get hurt? Ah, man, Kevin, I don't think so.

And that's a perfectly legit question. And that's what we're all wondering, given the way. it played out. I got to tell you, so I went into this as neutral as you can be. In fact, most of these playoffs. I mean, you know, I still have my favorite players and coaches. But I went into this final round

because I picked Oklahoma City on the first day of the season to win a championship. Really? And, yeah, the first day, oh, yeah. Coming into the season, October, 20, whatever, I had OKC winning. But then I have my doubts along the way. I had my doubts in that series with Denver, and I did go seven games.

And I, you know, I just thought, okay, Minnesota should be a bigger threat than they were. But, you know, the West is so loaded, as you know. But by the time we got to this, you look, I covered Rick Carlisle. I covered Rick Carlisle as a player at the University of Virginia. Yeah, I remember. With Ralph Samson and Kirk playing for Terry Holland. And I've known Rick. That's, oh, God.

45 years. And just one of my, the two guys I got, I'm going to toot my horn about Kevin, about going to their lockers all the time and talking to them all the time were Rick Carlisle and Mark Jackson. Mark Jackson, who was a sophomore and not even starting at St. John. And Rick, who was a transfer from Maine at Virginia. And those guys just had it. You could, you could know that when they were 19. Yeah. And so I do have a, not just, I have a straight up bias for Rick Carlisle, who I think is maybe the most underrated coach in the last 15 years in the NBA.

So I went into this totally neutral because SGA may be my favorite player now. And I didn't think they could win last night. I just thought game seven in that environment was too much. But maybe they could have. maybe they could have the way Halliburton started off four shots for nine points, three, three. Yeah.

And the inspiration he provided, see, people want to fall back. There's two generations of people now who can't talk about sports without numbers in analytics. You know any analytics? Analytics can't tell you whether a guy inspires a team in the locker room

an hour before games. Can't tell you that. Right. And so he did that. They were rallying around him. It was something to see I'm going to be honest with you I just didn't care about the game after he got hurt

Really? I just didn't Yeah I lost it I lost my zest for the game Because what was going on those first Six minutes seven minutes That was That was fictional

It was so great Yeah That was stuff you write In your head You know it's not going to actually happen it was that good. So, you know, I just didn't

I didn't love the game after that, and I knew Oklahoma City was going to win. I just wanted, if they'd won with him in there, and look, Oklahoma City deal with championship teams do. They took advantage of a weekend apartment. That's what you do. I don't have anything for praise, but I have admiration for Indy.

I have actual admiration for what those guys did in his series and last night. By the way, just, off of your discussion briefly about Rick Carlyle. I think you'll know this, but for everybody listening. Do you know what Rick Carlyle can claim at Virginia that Ralph Sampson can't? Actually, that's not true. I'm sorry.

Ralph Sampson made the final four. Ralph got to a final four. Yeah, and lost to North Carolina. But his, remember, Ralph, we expected Virginia to get back to the final four and won a title with Ralph. Olden Polly's did that. Holden Polly. With Rick Parloyal, the year after Ralph. Did Rick still on that team?

Yeah. After Ralph left. It was such a, yeah, I mean, and so he did that at Virginia when they weren't supposed to at all that second team. Right. And then he was part of the 1986 Celtics team with Byrd. Right. That if you're going to throw in a real discussion about the greatest teams of all time, that team goes in there. And Rick was on that team, making him one of 14 people.

won both the championship as a player and as a hit coach. The Virginia team with Ralph and Rick Carlyle was in the starting lineup in Ralph's senior year. They got beat by the NC State team, by the Valvano team in the Elite 8. And that was it for Ralph, and it was shocking. And then the next year, they weren't even supposed to be that good. And Terry Holland's team with Paulinez Carlisle and I think Othell Wilson was on that team too, went to the final four. So Del Wilson missed a floater in the lane that would have won the game and put them in the final against Georgetown. Against Georgetown.

Yeah. Exactly. They lost the semi-final game in overtime against that Elijah one team that lost Georgetown in the final. Yeah. Although I don't think Drexler was on that team. I think Drexler had gone. Dexter was gone, but maybe Mishal was gone and robbed. So there was still some leftover guys young.

still on that team, but they were still a powerhouse, obviously, with Elijah wanted. Yeah. Carlyle was an excellent college point guard. Excellent college guard. Yes, he was. His understanding of the game, which started, you know, obviously way back then, he incorporates everything he knows and can use now. They're a coach.

So I thought you picked him from the beginning of the season. I thought it was going to be before the playoffs started, I thought it was going to be one of where, well, it's too soon. You know, they've got to win a couple series, then get to the finals and lose. But after I saw them destroy Memphis, and then early in the Denver series, I'm like, this team's going to win it all.

I think it's the best defensive team we've seen in the NBA playoffs in a long, long time. Just tell me overall what made you fall in love with Oklahoma City and then what you sort of, how you describe their run to a team? title, you know, to somebody that didn't watch it? Well, it's the way they play. The way they play, they, collectively.

And I voted Jaylon Williams either second or third team, all NBA this year. And people might say, well, as a year too early, maybe. I'll take it the way it played out in the playoffs. I remember I did that with Kauai Leonard in his maybe third season. and people say, why do you do that? Those guys, you don't win 60, whatever games, 68, what they win? 68, yeah. You don't win 68 games with one dude.

I mean, Jordan getting won 68. Just him. Pippin by then it was great. And so I saw it's the way they play. Lou Doord is the best, he was my defensive player of the year. And we start talking about voting. Lou Doort was my defensive player of the year, and Jay Dub was always.

on my all-defense team. You got two guys on your all-defense team. They're going to be great. And you've got the MVP.

Yeah. And so, and so, Shade Gilges, Alexander, who I fell in love with two years ago, really.

But last year, to me, he's the perfect superstar. Listen to him. Love him. People should listen to what he says. There's not one egotistical moment in that kid's residence.

Not one. He is not, he's not bothered with that. By the way, Canada is going to win a gold medal. Really? Telling people that now. There were four of them in these finals. Yeah.

He really, I told us, the way they play and what he is is as a superstar. I told Scott the night he had him on in the playoffs for the first time, and I'm like, that guy is so mature, so thoughtful. Actually, I think their whole team, no matter how young they are. I mean, Jalen Williams is so impressive. That whole team is very impressive. Dort, very impressive. You can go down the roster and get to Gason Wallace and Wiggins.

You can go down the roster. But certainly, Holmgren when you listen to him. So that's infectious. That's their, by the way, that's how you build a championship team. Yeah, San Presby. You don't have to finish first, second or third in the lottery. They got home grins or second or second or third, I guess he was second. So that, talent doesn't hurt you.

But you can do this. you can build a great team and not finish first, second, and third. Shea Gail's Alexander, and J. Dub was pretty high too, but you can, you can, you have to craft a team and intelligence. Talent is a big part that person is intelligence, unselfishness,

lack of ego. They got that in spades, man. And I just, I just loved that about them last year. When a couple of times on the road, I was in their locker room, and I was like, yeah, these dudes, they got it. it. So defensively, I mean, where would you, you're a historian when it comes to this? I've talked about, you know, the Pistons teams, the Bulls teams of the 90s. I don't think I've seen a team that, you know, one through eight or nine that essentially could guard one through five. They were all incredible on ball defenders, team defenders. I just thought defensively they were as good as any team I can remember. Where would you put them? different than San Antonio because San Antonio had Duncan and I'm hesitant to compare many teams defensively to them with the anchor like him. But they are to me similar to the Bulls teams with Ron Harper because he had four

great defenders. He had Jordan Tippin, Rodman, Harper. He had four great defenders. And like three of them could have been defensive player the year back then. I mean, Robben was, Jordan was, Pittman was on first team like 10 times. So I compare it to them because they had four, they got four great defenders.

Shea Gilders-Alexandah's the fourth best defender. He's a great defender. Yeah. And he leads the league in steals. So, you know, I mean, and there's some Utah teams who are great too because stocked them alone were great defenders, and so was Brian Russell.

I don't know that they had a fourth, but, you know, they go up there, in that group, and obviously, you know, Shaq and Kobe had that with, and they had Ron Harper. So, you know, there was some great defensive teams all along. But I put OEC right with that group of teams.

San Antonio, I mentioned, people forget Genobey was a great defender. You know, when they had Ory, great defender, even though he was coming off the bench. There were times before that was Sean Elliott, a great defender. So, you know, you've had some teams with multiple great defender. defenders, they got a whole team, they got a whole team four. And they got a seven foot.

They got two seven footers. Yeah. What did you? And that's what those teams didn't have. What did you think? Because I, I mean, Oklahoma City's defense was just fun to watch. I mean, the Rockets Warrior series was so intense defensively. You know, the Pacers Nick series was. I mean, the Pacers were better defensively. But did you sense or have you sensed in recent years the games become, we went from those pistons, nets, you know, spurs 88, 85, 79, 78, to getting rid of the hand check, more of a free-flowing game, back to a game that is very physical, and it gets officiated without, you know, putting the clamps on the physicality. What do you think?

It's not just impression, Kevin. And I didn't know this. I probably shouldn't. I'd like to give him credit on the air since I'm listening to know who he is. So during the playoffs, I'm in Madison Square Garden, maybe for the second. I'm probably for Celtics, Knicks. And I'll just say a little birdie who stands about seven feet is important to Washington, D.C. basketball people, said to me, how do you like going back to this style of officiating?

and calling the game and the physicality. And I said, yes, this is great. I just, I'm stunned at it. And he goes, why you stunned at it? And I think, we haven't seen it. And he said, you don't know that this was ordered by the league. I'm like, get out of here. He said, no, no, no, this is spoken, this is talked about.

This is planned. This is not an accident. And sure enough, I did find out. The league wanted this, and this was talked about. I don't know to what degree. I don't know what was said specifically. But once, yeah, that is the case. So this was not by accident that happened.

And so let me give the league some credit for realizing you can have both. You can have enough free-flowing basketball with a combination of physicality to make it a great product. And that's what it was. That's what he's playing. Why do you, that's fascinating. I certainly as a basketball fan noticed what team. were able to get away with. I mean, it was, I mean, this series in particular, the championship series, both teams.

I mean, first of all, when have we ever seen two teams until the last two games, full court press each other? You know, like it was a high school or a college game. So we saw that and we saw get away with it, get away with a lot of, you know, physical, you know, body, hands. Why do you think the league wanted it to be that way? Well, because I don't know who was in the room, but there are people who, I'm sure, when you have these discussions, say, wait a minute, you know, we have to allow more. We can't just turn this game over too often, which the NFL better be careful about, because that's what they've done.

And you can't just turn it. We don't want to take that element out of the game. And so in the first round, maybe it's just, let's see. I don't know. I don't know the particulars of the conversation. but I do know and had it confirmed that that is what happened. Wow. And so whatever the instincts were, whoever was in the room,

whatever group of former players, officials, I mean zebras, whatever group of people were in that discussion, good for them. They got it right. I got nothing but praise for that. I enjoyed it, and you noticed it right from the beginning, because that Rockets Warrior series in particular was, and it got very changed. chippy, you know, with some of the players, Dylan Brooks, et cetera, involved in it. All right.

So, let's talk about... The product to me was as good as it could get without everybody ripping up in Achilles. The product was as good as it could get. I thought it was two months of incredible basketball. Now, with that said, I think these finals, while incredibly intense, at times well played, there was nothing memorable about the games themselves. game one was a stunner, the comeback. Game one was nuts.

But after that, we didn't have one game, I don't think, decided by less than double digits. No, ball in the air was. And I think there's a lot of series like that when I look back. I think most series maybe have one game, maybe a second. I mean, you know, you can get spoiled. We got spoiled for, like, how many finals, six and six.

We got spoiled by watching Michael and Kobe and and LeBron and Steph, and then they had four or five against each other. You get spoiled by that. You don't have necessarily that kind of shot maker in this series, although, again,

Shea's MVP, and this is his first one. It's his first one. He may be back. And then, you know, while I hate the Dynasty talk. I don't want to hear it. It makes me angry after one. There's no dynasty of one. People need to shut up.

They could get back. Because now the West is going to be a monster, but it's going to take a year. Because you don't have Kyrie with Dallas, and it's going to take Cooper Flagg, that group a year, and then they're going to be a monster. If they're together

and healthy, Anthony Davis-Kyrie and a young Cooper Flagg, a guy who can do stuff, because he's a young stud and PJ Washington and Clay Thompson, old crafty guy who can just make a basket

whenever you need one. Dallas is going to be a monster. So people can even Nico Harris all they want. And then you got the Lakers who I still think need a year if they can get there, if they can get there. Houston's going to get there.

But I think they need a year. Who else do I have in that mix? Denver. if they can add to their debt. Denver's got a, yeah, they got some roster augmentation. Yeah. Like now.

Yeah. So I don't know. They better do this before Joker just says, I'm tired. I'm leaving like pulls up Bjorn Borg and leaves at the height of his power. You know, I don't want to see that because I think he's the best player in the world. So, but there's, the West of, and San Antonio, they're coming. They're coming.

Suppose they try. What, why wouldn't you pick up the phone and say, of Milwaukee. Look, I know he hasn't requested a trade. Give us, you can have the two and the 14 and Soshan and you give us Janus. And you get Janus and Fri, and, and, um, and, um, and, and, and, and hit from Yukon. Yeah, I, no, but real quickly on, on, on before, because I did want to ask you about the Durant trade and what you think it does for Houston. Sure. Uh, we didn't mention by the way, my, I think they've got to move on from James Hardin. I actually think Kauai looked like Kauai in the postseason, but I'll move away from them.

Real quickly, I think James Hardin's better older because he can't do all the stuff that requires him to have the ball 22 seconds. I think Hardin's better as a playmaker. I think he's better now. Yeah, but you can't play that much ISO ball and win four out of seven for four series. But he doesn't play as much ISO ball. He doesn't play as much ice ball. Yeah, he did net-s-s-exo ball. Series against the Nuggets.

Yeah. I think it's too much for Brunson, to be honest with you, to win four out of seven four times. But the coaching may change that. We don't know how that's going to play out. So on SGA, okay, so he wins it, and I love him too. But I don't consider him to be the best player in the league. Do you? I consider the best player in the league to be Joker.

But my top five, I mean, now that people can come back whole from Achilles' chairs, you know, it was Tatum. So my five were pretty rock-solid five. And my five were Joker, Janice, SGA, Tatum, and Edwards. And Anthony Edwards. Those are my five. Yeah, because. And by the way, it's going to all this, it's going to change if Wimbabayama, it comes back and has the arc that we expect and when Bunyama's going to replace somebody in that.

Yeah, for sure. Look, I mean, the guy that I had no idea about did not think was going to be as good as he is, and I think he's coming to, in an SGA kind of way, is Kate Cunningham. But we don't have to talk about down the road. Yes, Kate Cunningham agreed with you. And by the way, I'm a castle guy. That's why I think San Antonio is going to, like, blitz people soon. and Oklahoma City better get a second one quickly. I would still take Joker,

and I actually think what was the most impressive thing in this postseason, other than Indiana, and the way they never were out of any game. I mean, that was fun to watch, is the fact that Denver, with Gordon hurt late, Porter Jr. hurt the entire series in no depth, literally were about four or five minutes away from taking a three-one series, lead in game four and almost one game five against Oklahoma City, which tells you to or told

me, Joker's the best player. The fact that they almost won that series with nothing in terms of a bench and injured starters tells you how great he is. You know, we know we're arguing. We're arguing Elijah Juan versus Jordan, and I know SGA is not Jordan. We're arguing the styles of play where Elijah Juan was a dominant force. and then Jordan was his own dominant force just different ways SGA controls the game he controls it

and so he can do stuff he can get you 10 assists like he did last night with 12 he can get you 40 he's a really good defender he's not Jordan level defense but he's a you know he's a top 15 defender in the league yeah and so you know and Joker doesn't have that

the Joker is not the defender no he isn't but geez He's great. Again, I got Joker as the best player in the league. And so I just want to see Denver be a factor. And I love Adelman.

I love this kid. They're going to keep him, right? Well, yeah, they ought to keep him. And I liked what he did in real time. And I got a chance to be around Denver some in the Clipper of Denver series. I go out that series. And I, yeah, yeah, I want to see what they got to dig out of me. When they lost, you know, Bruce Brown.

Brown, they, you know, they got Christian Brown. I know, but you didn't need a replacement. You needed an addition. And so we'll see what they do. Look, there's a big leave going to be shaken up because all these teams are going to look and say, okay, if we're going to keep up with OKC, we've got to do this. And the East people are going to say it's wide open until Indiana's hole again, we've got to do this.

And that starts with the Knickerbockers. The Knicks better while Boston and Indie are wide. wounded. The Knicks better get there before Detroit. I'm not sure they can, but they better act like they can. I don't think I've ever asked you this. How would the rockets of 94 and 95 without Jordan, if let's just say Jordan doesn't go off to do the baseball thing or whatever the reasons, what would have happened in a Houston-Chicago NBA finals back-to-back years in 94 and 95? Because Elijah won, he was so great. He was so great.

He was the one thing they hadn't beaten. Right. Like they hadn't beaten. The Lakers, you know, it was a young, Vlad. It was Lottie. Yeah. The first, second year, maybe. Right.

Blotty was young. You know, Portland didn't have, they had, I can't think of a big man. The guy that played for the bullets briefly. I'm forgetting his name. Yeah, it was a Chicago kid, too. I think he passed away, too. I think so. But they didn't have.

it. You know, nobody, you know, you know, Seattle didn't it. But they did be Rick Smith. Kevin Duckworth. So they did be guys twice. Kevin Duckworth. And they did be Patrick Ewan. So they didn't do it in the finals, but they did it. But they didn't, we know people, people get cared with the finals. The Eastern Conference finals back to the final. Sure. And so they had to do it multiple times with Big and they did with Brad Doherty. So you know what, I'm taking that back. The Bulls did it. They just didn't do it in the finals. But I, you know, I said that to Michael once. I got that sideways look.

And he loved Elijah Juan. Loved Elijah. He loved him. And had nothing but the utmost respect for him. That wasn't an era of guys dissing each other. Like as much as Jordan and Isaiah may have hated each other in real time, if you ask Michael Jordan today, his five greatest point guards of all time,

I know who's going second after Maggie Johnson. I know who's going second, by there Tom. Yeah. So even though guys may have hated him, each other then and they fought each other literally in ways that today's players cannot fight each other. They had this unbelievable level of respect. You know what I say that? I think he does say Isaiah above Stockton. But Jordan loved Isaiah and Stockton. He loved both

of them. I think I'd take, I think I'd take, magic would clearly be my number one. Magic was played in Isaiah. Isaiah won twice. I mean, he won twice. Yeah, I would have Isaiah in front of Stockton. I would. Me too. Yeah. I have a lot. I have Isaiah, and I understand Steph Curry changes the conversation because he's an alien. It's a different conversation and what he does is different. But in terms of the way we thought about point guard for 75 years and the later. So, you know, so that, but it's interesting to think about Elijah Juan and that team and how they might have played, if he would Drexler on the second team,

how they were to play, you know, the balls and others in that era. It was... Well, Drexler wasn't on the same. second team, was he? Yeah, he was. He was? He was? Drekter was a ring. Yeah. No, no, no, no. He was on the first winner in 94. No. No. No.

The second one. He wasn't on the first one. He wasn't. He was on the second rocket's winner. Okay. Against Orlando. He got traded to them late. Yeah, against who was the second one? The second one, I get those finalists. Well, no, they beat the Knicks in seven, and then they beat Orlando with with Shaq. It swept Orlando, right? Yeah, they swept Orlando.

Yeah. So Clyde was on the second. Right. You know what? I just looked it up. You were correct, per usual. All right. Okay, so.

Only old guy stuff can I get? Yeah, I know. I'm great on 80s redskins more so than, you know, 2010 Redskins. All right. So let's take a quick break and then I want to ask you, and you've already kind of answered it, but I want to talk through. this idea that because they're so young, this might be the beginning of a dynastic run for Oklahoma City.

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Prize picks, run your game. Here's the one thing that I didn't love about OKC. They won the championship with great elite level defense. I thought offensively they really struggled at times. They were stagnant. They seemed unstructured. And I think that's, if we're talking about a dynastic run, they certainly have it defensively, but they got to fix things offensively, don't you think?

They're just going to get better. They're kids, the youngest team in the league. But some of that was... The Bulls' first team, the team to beat the Lakers, that team wasn't as great. Scotty and Horace were go in the headlight some night. They were, remember how young,

Scotty and Horace were like in their third season or fourth. No, they weren't great. They became great. You just leave them, just let them, leave them alone. Don't do anything. What, they're not going to get better? You're going to get better.

You just got to play with more movement, I think. I think that's, I don't think it's down as much as it was maybe. They'll do all that. No, he's a great coach. They'll do all that. I mean, Phil Jackson got better as a coach. Tex winner got better as a coach,

even though those guys were veteran, older dudes. They all got better. I mean, the athletic arrogance that comes with winning, the knowledge that you're better than that dude, and what you do when you're in the laboratory, if you have ego-less players. So they have that. They have the e-o-less star.

They're going to get better. That's why people want to predict there will be a dynasty, and I'm not going there yet. Because the league is too good. The league has too many good teams now, and you can't afford great players unless you draft them and do it like OKC has done. So I, no, no, no, I'm not touching them. They're going to get better. The Rockets missed one thing in that series against Golden State, somebody that could score. I loved Amon Thompson.

Sengoon, I love that team. He's going to be great. Are you kidding me? Yeah. Oh, my God, Amon. Yeah, they're going to be great. And I don't even know if they're going to add. I don't know if they're going to keep Fred Van lead in $45 million this time around.

But he's got, I think, I don't know who has the option on that. But, um. So does Durant? Kevin Durant does one thing. Kevin Durant is not the guy anymore that can lead a team. He's not. He couldn't lead the sons with enough. other top 15 player out of 12th.

But on that team with that coach, with those players with Amit Thompson, you feel as how green is going to be? Come on. I mean, you know, they're going to be. They're right there. By the way, in the next year, in the next year, I'm talking about March.

When they come back from the break, but they got better after the break this year. So, and Durant left to his own devices, doing the stuff that Durant famously does. When he gets to a city, Kevin, even now at 36 years old, he goes to a gym and puts up shots at midnight when he gets off a team playing. I'm serious.

Yeah. That he's obsessed. He does that. Now, so that guy, the one thing, you know, they were like 27th in half-court offense. They were 27th in catch and shoot. They were like 28th and three-point shoot. Durant, that's what he does. He doesn't have, he's not one of the best defenders anymore, but he's a plus defender for damn sure.

So now you're going to plug him in to what they got? I think it's next year. It's dangerous. Yeah, I think they're right there. I think they're right there. I do too. All right. The draft is Wednesday night.

Do you, are you following it? Do you have anybody that you'd like the Wizards to take? I mean, that's what I'm focused on. Maybe Queen, but that's too high. I hear the Wizards are very actively trying to move up. No, because we don't know who's going to be great. And like the scouts know who's going to be great. That's it.

That's it. Because you can't tell from a year. You can't tell from a year watching these kids in college, maybe Cooper Flaggman or watching them or four years anyway. But there's some guy who's going to be chosen 11th or 12th or 6th or 9th. That's going to be a great player first team all NBA in three years. We don't know who it is. They better know.

They better know. Maybe it's queen. Like, I keep wanting the Bulls to draft him. To put with, the Bulls have a guy, this kid, Boozellus, who started to emerge after the break last year. And now I'm completely crazed because nobody knew this kid was that good. And then he took Luca apart at the scenes in back-to-back game. And you went, uh-oh.

That's what. Those are the guys that you look at in. March and you say, okay, wait a minute. This kid, SGA from Canada, where he comes from? He's an alien. So the bullets, the wizards better, they better do, they got to get a guy. That's how you get better. You don't have to be one, two, or three. Yannis was not one, two, or three. Joker was not one, two, or three. SGA was not one, two or three, right. No, they weren't. Yeah. But why Leonard was not one, two or three. We have just, named people who were MVP of

Steph Curry was not one, two, or three. So I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear. We didn't get lucky in the draft. Oh, my God. So what? You got to find the guy. Find it. Thanks for doing this.

Halliburton, not one, two, or three. Right. But you don't, you don't view Halliburton as a superstar player yet. Do you? I don't need to. I need to have him. I understand that, but you know the argument. I don't care. I don't care.

I don't care. I care what you care about, and I just want to know what you think. I want players who I don't care about that. I want players who can get better over time who can understand the game and who can play with others and be great. Speaking of that one, two, or three, how about Jaylon Brunson? Who's a top 10 player? He's probably six through ten. He was in the second round.

I don't want him because he's not a superstar. I'm done. I'm done with that. Look. Give me players. Wasn't Jaylen Brown the finals MVP last year? Yes, he was. Another one.

We keep aiming people. Yeah. Come on. No, I know. I know that. And so if the Wizards were to draft the equivalent of, if one of the guys last year turns out to be a third team all-N-BA player in two years. Yeah.

And in a year and a half that he's on that trajectory. And they draft another one this year. You're not going to take that? The hell you wouldn't. No, I mean, this is what it's all about. I've said something now for seven or eight years in a row, and it stood up again this year, although somebody did take me to task over the 2014 spurs, and I'll tell you what that was in a moment.

But you have to still go now back to 2004 in the Pistons of 2004 to find an NBA champion without a debatable top five superstar in the league. Now somebody pointed out- I'm sorry? They're not fully formed when they get. No, no, no, no. I'm just saying. But when they win that, but the champions, when you look at every champion since 2004 in that season, they had a top five player in the league. You still need that.

Sheaulges Alexander, top five player in the league, obviously. He was the MVP. Lashier, Jason Tatum, top five player in the league. Somebody, and I thought it was a... He's the only one who came in that way. Joker, Johnis, but they all became that. I understand. It became that.

Okay, so that's drafting. That's scouting. No, no, no. I'm saying you have to find wherever you find him. Yeah, wherever you find him, you got to find them. But you go back to those 04 Pistons. and you don't have a top five player. Now, the argument that a caller had for me recently,

he's like the 14 spurs that beat the heat. Kauai Leonard was the MVP of those finals, but he wasn't yet a consensus top five player. And Duncan, I always said, well, they had Tim Duncan. He was not necessarily. He was. I had Kauai Leonard. Well, I voted Kauai Leonard's first team that year.

Did you in 2014? Yeah, well, you had some vision. In 13, I had him 13. And then actually, I feel one of the great honors I have, well, you know, those votes were public then. Yeah. And Greg Poppich asked me, why did you, why did you have him there? And I said, because I don't know, I just, it just looks like to me he has that effect.

And Pop, you know, gave me one of those, like a dramatic, fake hug. To say, good for you for getting this right, because he's going to be that. Yeah. And so just find him. I don't need him to be, I don't need him to be, I don't need him to be fit a kid. category. Because nobody had Joker. Nobody had Joker there?

Second round. We could take a team of guys chosen after 15 and win an NBA championship. So the Wizards don't even need to move up necessarily. Now, if they move up and they find that guy all praise. All praise

to him, Kevin. Yeah. But just find the guy. You just have to find the guy. You can't draft John Vesley in the Kauai Leonard draft. No, no, no, you can't. That's what you can't do. So what is this Chinese kids? Like, how good is he? Yeah, I don't know. Like, he's come to people late. We don't know. We don't know what he looks like. Find one of these Canadian kids. Canada's going to win it. They're going to win the gold medal, Kevin. Canada's going to win the gold medal. That along with the NBA playoffs this year

being officiated differently, we've got some newsbreaking, you know, quotes from Mike Wilbon on the podcast today. Canada is going to win the gold medal. Look, they've got great players in the league, great players in the league. No doubt. They got a young 7-foot-4 woman, who was the top, who was a top five rookie, who people didn't think could play in the NBA, he's too big, you're too slow. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah, I'll take him. That would be... Is Jamal Marie Canadian? Yes. Yeah, he is, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Another guy with a ring. Right now, you got your back court there would be Shea Gildedis Alexander and Jamal Murray. Right.

And look at the guys you got, you got Lou Dort. You got Dort. You got Nempard. You got, you got, you got, Mathron. You got the gift from Arizona. Yeah, Mathern. Mathern. Mathuron.

You got Matherin, by the way, was a terrific hockey player as a junior. I didn't know that. I actually think he has star potential in the right situation. Well, he can certainly light you up on one side of the ball. Yeah. Yeah, I just pulled up the list of current Canadian players. And so just think the next guy, so I mean, Steph and LeBron playing on the next team? Maybe. Right. I mean, maybe, Steph, maybe, I mean, maybe, but. It's 2028, L.A., right?

Yeah. Yeah. And L.A. is not like a road game to those kids. We're playing there all their lives. No, of course not. They're playing in the NBA. Look, the French almost beat us. That's my point. Yeah. If my man from Philly plays for his home for France and not us, what happens?

What's the difference? I know. I don't know. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's not. All right. By the way, he's just got to stay healthy. enjoy, I guess the draft.

I think that, you know, what you said about the draft, and I say this every year about the NBA draft, these are 18 and 19-year-olds. Nobody knows. They got to know, and they got to get it right. But when you sit there, it's not the same as the NFL draft. The NFL draft, there's just a lot more. Look, it's a crapshoot there, too.

They're 50-year guys. Yeah. Yeah, but you've seen this sample size. You read these stories about guys taking 200, 150 snaps. No. No, no, and it's not. The NBA is not that. It's a different culture. It's a whole different thing. But you better get it right. You better get it right. The Wizards of, and maybe they got it right with the three guys they took last year. Let's just see how that goes. Yeah. I mean, you watched some of them this year. I didn't see a transcendent player, but it's so early. Like you said, you didn't necessarily see this in the first year or two of several players who became stars. Remember, because they're so young. The two stars,

Halliburton and SGA, were both traded. I know. Yeah. It's their second teams. Right. So, you know, you don't necessarily see a lot of stuff

and teams make mistakes, but, you know, it's interesting. Some teams get it right. So let's see. It's just this organization hasn't gotten it right for 46 years. All right. One of these days. They're doing it the right way.

That's the only thing I am absolutely on board with. It looks like they are. It doesn't guarantee anything because they got to get right. It guarantees nothing. But it's interesting time for them, and I'm interested to see like my own bulls, what happened on Wednesday night. It was a great two months. I loved it, and I thought the finals were great.

It would have been great to see Halliburton healthy, because I think we would have seen a dramatic game seven last night. Game 7. Yeah, me too. All right. Thanks. That took the wind out of my sales, Kevin. But listen, man, you know, we love having these conversations with you at the end of the season. Well, we'll do it before the season starts. You know, I appreciate it.

All right. Stay well and I'll talk to you soon. All right, sounds good. Mike Wilbon, everybody. We'll finish up the show with Doug Camer from Channel 4 on the heat wave. We'll get to that right after these words from a few. of our sponsors. If you get a chance and it only takes about 30 to 60 seconds to do it, rate us and review us on Apple and Spotify.

It's huge for us, especially this time of year. We're a couple of months away from football season. We're starting to put proposals out for advertisers and ratings and reviews really help us following us on Apple and Spotify. Hit the plus button, hit the follow button. That's a big help as well. It is hot out there. It's going to continue to be hot out there. And there's one guy that can tell us just how hot and for how long. And whether or not this is unprecedented a level of heat. It's our good friend from NBC Ford, Doug Camer, the best meteorologist in the market at Doug Camer on X on Twitter. Of course, he's not suffering through this like all of us are. He's out in Boise, Idaho, where I bet

the temperatures like in the low to mid-70s with no humidity, right? It's currently 63 degrees here. How did that happen? It was in the 40s. It was in the 40s this morning. How did that happen? I'm out here for a weather conference. I've got the

American Meteorological Society weather conference out here, and yeah, excited to be out here and excited that I'm missing the heat. Oh, my God. So one of the reasons I texted you, and I've got to have you on, is I could be wrong. I mean, you know how much I'm into this stuff, but not as much summer as winter, like you. Yeah.

But when I saw an extreme heat warning issued, that seemed new to me. I've seen excessive heat warnings. I don't know that I've ever seen an extreme heat warning. Have we had that before? No, we have not. And the reason we haven't is because exactly what you said, they were actually called excessive heat warnings. and now they changed the name. The nomenclature has changed.

Got it. But the actual warnings themselves have not changed. So extreme heat is now what we deal with. So it's an extreme heat watch. It's an extreme heat warning. And that's why we're dealing with this for the first time. Okay. So the name has changed.

That's what threw me. But we've certainly had excessive heat warnings. Tell us about what we're going to get today, tonight, tomorrow, tomorrow, night, the rest of the week. And then it's been a while. seems like to me where we've hit like 110, 115 heat index-wise? Yeah, it has. And even last year, you know, we had four days in a row over 100 degrees. One of those days was 104 last July, an extremely hot day.

But the humidity wasn't as bad. You look out there today, you walk out, you can feel it. I mean, we've got a dew point in the mid-70s. I mean, that's incredible. Not only to get this heat, but then to get the dewpoint on top of it, that's in the 70s, that would give you that heat index. between 105 and 110, and we're getting close to that already. D.C. was already at 107 as of 1245 today.

So, you know, waiting on those 1 o'clock numbers, but it looks like we're going to be sitting at, you know, that 92, 93, 94 degree mark, and a heated deck of 105 to 110 by that point. So we've got the excessive heat warning today. We've got it again tomorrow, tomorrow, probably the hottest day that we have across the region. And then we'll start to see things relax a little bit, but still extremely hot on Wednesday and probably Thursday, too. What are our summer records for heat and heat end heat index?

Yeah, the hottest we've ever gotten in the month of June is 104 degrees. I'll never forget that day. That was 104. That was the day of the Durit show that came in June 29th of 2012. That was the day of the Durit Show where we had the hot dome, the hot dome, and that's the term you're going to hear a lot of heat dome. So we have the heat dome set up across the east right now. And, you know, we've got all the cities to have excessive heat warning.

But 104 is the hottest for us in the month of June. We've gotten to 106. That's the highest we've ever gotten for actual temperature. The heat index, we very rarely get above 110. It really is extremely rare. So an excessive heat warning, or as you're talking about now, an extreme heat warning, we don't get those very often. Once every couple of years is when we'll get those.

So this is going to be something that we're going to have to deal with for the next couple of days. And here's the thing about that, just looking at the pattern here, if you saw my summer forecast, I said not a lot of extreme heat. I did expect a couple of extreme heat days, but not a lot of extreme heat. And I really do think this could be the hottest time frame, the whole summer coming in right now in the month of June. And we've seen that before in the month of June. Virginia is the hottest month or at least have some of the hottest days.

And then we see, you know, still heat in July and August, but not the extreme heat that we're looking at today. Well, it's such a shock, too, because we really did have a legitimate cool and damp spring, right? Yes. Yes. May was cool and damp in the early part of June. I mean, we've been below average. from much of the month of June. I have a question for you, and I don't know if this applies to summer weather, but you and I both understand sort of this heat island effect, you know, in D.C.

Yep. With, you know, and it's why national airports winter, you know, snowfall totals and temperatures are always way off compared to the rest of the area. Does this apply during summer heat as well? Like, are we hotter here in D.C.? because of this heat island effect and, say, Philadelphia is? Well, I mean, Philadelphia is going to have the same kind of heat island effect. But as you look at just D.C. itself, downtown Washington, where you have all the buildings,

all the asphalt, on a typical day like this is going to be as much as 10 to 15 degrees warmer than Rock Creek. So you could be inside Washington, D.C., and have a 10 to 15 degree difference in a matter of a couple hundred feet. I'm not even talking about a mile here, a mile there. I mean, if you go up and maybe you're down on M Street and you're going through you're going through Georgetown, you're going to feel that 115 degrees where inside the inside Rock Creek, which is just down the way, that temperature may be coming in or that feels like maybe coming in at 100, 105.

So, you know, even there, the heat island plays a major impact. All right. So you've answered one of the questions. You think this is going to be the hottest stretch of summer? That's your forecast. I think it could be, yes. And the reason is because we've got this heat dome that has come across the entire country. My forecast, and this is what's actually going to happen for the next couple of days here,

we're actually going to see this heat dome starts to retrograde back towards the west. And as it does, we're going to be seeing some cooler numbers in here coming up for the next couple of days later this weekend and into next week. So this is a one and done scenario. I hope I don't want to see this comeback at all. But that's what that's looking like is going to happen. I definitely expect to see more of that heat dome, that high pressure area, moving back into the middle to western portions of the country this summer. Reminding about the 2012 Dorets show, and I don't think any of us will ever forget it, you know, trees, power for days. Is extreme heat part of the setup for Dorete show or not?

Yes, it is, absolutely, because what you have here is you get this heat, I'll say it again, the heat dome. and the storms ride on top of the dome. By it on top, I'm talking about the northern part of the dome. So when you have this extreme heat in our area, there was a Doratio-like scenario that's been playing out in parts of the northern states over the past couple of days. We had the same kind of system come down to New York the other day. So you're going to see what they would.

We call it the ring of fire because what happens is you get storms around these areas of high pressure. The storms rotate all the way around them. And when they get to the top of that heat dome, that's where you get the biggest difference between the heat and some cooler air to the north. And that's where a lot of times you're going to get these strongest storms coming on through. All right. Do you see any strong storms as a part of the forecast the next few days? I really don't. The way that the heat dome is set up for us, I don't see that.

The next chance of the next real good chances later this week, Thursday, Friday we could get some storms. But it's not anything that's a real heat buster or it's not anything that. that should give us anything like what we saw back in 2012. All right, because this is much more interesting to me, and I know it's June 23rd, but do you have an early hunch on the winter of 25-26? No, no, haven't even looked at that. But I would, well, yeah, I haven't even looked at it.

Haven't even looked at it. Really? I don't want to say any kind of. Yeah, I haven't even looked at it. That's surprising me because. Well, you know, I need to see where the El Nino is, where that setup is, right? I need to see where that goes. Last year, it was predicted to go into more of a Linenia, and it never really did.

And as a result of that, my totals were a little too high. I was expecting that L'Anenia to occur, and it never really made it to Linenia status. So I'd like to see where we are coming out of the summer. I can really start to look at that coming out of, you know, in September, October. I don't do my forecast on November, as you know. But I can really start to look at it September, October to get a feel of where we're going to be. I don't need the super cold and dry again. If we're going to be, we wasted a lot of good cold last winter.

Yes, we did. We got a couple of good stores. We got two good ones. We did. You know, we got two good ones, but I was definitely hoping for at least another one. And I will say this, you know it. We are due for a blizzard. Haven't seen one since 2016.

So we are due for a blizzard. Okay. Well, we can talk about that when we get into late fall. Thanks for doing this. Enjoy Boise. And the beautiful weather that you have will suffer without you here. But thanks for the help, as always. You bet.

Doug Cammer, everybody. Stay cool. Back tomorrow with Tommy.