The Kevin Sheehan Show - Vikings QB Situation & Disastrous Offense

Episode Date: December 6, 2025

An added show this week with Kevin opening the show with the post-season history between the Skins and tomorrow's opponent, the Vikings. Phil Mackey from the Skor North & Purple Daily podcasts jumped on from Minneapolis to preview tomorrow's game but to also explain the JJ McCarthy situation at quarterback. ESPN's Mark Schlabach joined Kevin to discuss his detailed story on Lane Kiffin leaving Ole Miss for LSU. For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match Want to spruce up your lawn? FastGrowingTrees.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it, you don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show, here's Kevin. When you come in and you play the hottest team in the NFL, the Minnesota Vikings, and it all comes down to one last play. It's fourth down there by the goal line, and Wade Wilson sends his running back out of the backfield, Darren Nelson. He works his way to the goal line, and suddenly he's got a shot for the catch that might deny you a Super Bowl. but it is not to be, because fate today was on the side of the Washington Redskins who have won

the NFC championship and now head to San Diego to take on either Denver or Cleveland. I'm Brent Musburger. So long, everybody. That was Brent Musburger from the Redskins locker room on January 17, 1988, signing off from CBS's coverage that day of the NFC championship game at RFK Stadium. Washington won that game over Minnesota, and then two weeks later were Super Bowl champions after destroying Denver, 42 to 10. This show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Window Nation 86690 Nation, WindowNation.com, if you need new windows. So this is an added podcast for the week. I had two really good conversations yesterday that I didn't want to add to yesterday's show because it would have been too long.

of his show. So I saved it for today. We'll talk with Phil Mackey. Phil's a successful podcast host in Minneapolis. He hosts and co-hosts, Score North and Purple Daily. I got introduced to Phil a few years ago. Phil does what we do in Minneapolis, and he does it very well. We'll talk about their quarterback situation and preview tomorrow's game against the Vikings in Minneapolis. And then after Phil, you'll hear my conversation with Mark Schlebaum. Mark covers college football and golf for ESPN. But Mark wrote a really good story about the Lane Kiffin situation earlier this week. So, you know, Washington and Minnesota will play for the 29th time tomorrow. The Vikings lead this series 15, 13 overall in the first 28 games. But they have quite the playoffs. history. You know, if you look back, you know, in the Super Bowl era, Washington has played Minnesota in the postseason more than any other team. They have faced Minnesota five times in the playoffs. The first time they face them, you've got to go back to the 1973 season. They

played in the old Minneapolis Stadium there in Bloomington, where it was frigid temperatures in the teens, and Washington lost a close hard-fought game 27 to 20. Three years later, they lost to the Vikings 35 to 20 in Minneapolis. And then in 1982, the John Riggins' 185-yard-day bow game when Washington beat Minnesota 21 to 7. And then they faced each other again in the NFC title game in January of 1988, Washington, winning that game 17 to 10. Brent Musburger signing off from the locker room that day

after the Wade Wilson throw to Darren Nelson was broken up with the help of one Daryl Green. And then following the 92 season, Joe Gibbs' final playoff win of his first tenure, Washington kind of backdored their way into the postseason as the defending champions. In fact, they needed Minnesota to win in the final regular season weekend against Green Bay to knock Brett Fav and the Packers out of what would be their

first playoff season with Holmgren and Farr. Minnesota had nothing to play for that day either. They ended up winning that game and then they faced Washington in the Metrodome where Washington had won the Super Bowl the previous year and Washington went in there and crushed the Vikings 24 to 7. They would lose the divisional round game the following. week at Candlestick against the 49ers. But the Redskins five times faced the Vikings in the postseason more than any other team that they've ever faced in the postseason in the Super Bowl era. If you were to add all of their championship games against the Bears from the 30s and 1940s, the Bears would be their number one opponent in the postseason. But Super Bowl era,

Minnesota, they played five times with Washington winning two of those. I'm sorry, Washington winning three of those, the final three, in 82, then the championship game, and then following the 92 season, they lost their first two. So a three-two playoff edge for Washington over Minnesota. They've played, if you're interested, the 49ers, the Lions, and the Buccaneers, four times in the postseason. The Rams, Bears, and Seahawks three times, the Cowboys, Eagles, and Packers twice,

and the Giants and the Falcons each once. Washington's list of opponents they've never faced in the NFC playoffs includes New Orleans, Carolina, and Arizona. Not sure that you were really looking for all of that information, but I was pretty sure that Washington had faced Minnesota more than any other team. in the playoffs, and I just went and confirmed it for myself, and then I shared it with you. So there you go. They're not going to play in the postseason this year, that's for sure.

Minnesota 4 and 8, Washington 3 and 9, Jaden Daniels back in the starting lineup tomorrow off his injury from the Seattle game nearly five weeks ago, and the point spread really moved with the official news that Jaden was going to start the game. This time yesterday, Minnesota was a one and a half or two-point favorite, Washington now a one-and-a-half or two-point favorite. I think part of the point spread had already kind of factored in the possibility, if not the likelihood that Jaden was going to start. But once it became official, the line moved significantly to now the skins being a one-and-a-half or a two-point favorite. All right, let's find out about the Vikings, and let's do it with Phil Mackey. I've known Phil for a few years now.

We were introduced a few years back. Phil's got a very successful podcast, a couple of them, in fact, in Minneapolis, score north, Purple Daily, covering all Minnesota sports, but really focused on the Vikings in particular. You can follow Phil on X on Twitter at Phil Mackey. uh it's good to have you back uh we haven't talked in a while um and i just thought i'd reach out with our two teams playing each other and i want to start with just the quarterback situation and how things have kind of gotten sideways with j j mccarthy yeah it's funny if we would

have done like a like a season preview podcast in august and we would we would sit down and all right let's map out what's going to happen for the commanders and the Vikings here. And let's look ahead. What's the climate going to be for these teams on December 7th or whatever the date is this Sunday? And are they going to be competing for the one seed in the NFC divisions? And no, this is actually a must-lose game for both of these teams. If you open up the Satankathon draft rankings right now, it is, and I've been watching from afar with the commanders too, and it's obviously disappointing season. But I feel like at least with the commanders, and Jaden Daniel sounds like he's going to start this weekend. You're not going to

make the playoffs, but it feels like, all right, let's a throwaway season. You've got the quarterback in place. I don't know how commanders fans feel about coach front office. It feels better than the last 25 years. But at least you go into after a loss season, you go into 2006, knowing that you have a high-end young quarterback. The Vikings don't know that. And I don't know that anything can happen in the next five games with J.J. McCarthy. They would make the Vikings say, yep, that's our week one guy for 2006. He's been too injury prone. He's looked too lost. There are many reasons for why he's looked lost on the field, not all of which are 100% his fault. I think a lot of people feel differently about the infrastructure around him than they did five or six months ago.

But this, if we put it this way, Kevin, before the season on Purple Daily, we did a segment that let's take injuries out of it. What is the worst case scenario for the Vikings barring a barrage of injuries? None of us landed on this. The worst passing game in the entire NFL by any statistical measurement and out of the playoffs before Thanksgiving. So this has been a colossal disaster. Yeah, you said something about, you know, rooting for losses at this point.

I'm not doing that. We did that too many years, and I'm wondering, because it's going to lead into a part two after your quarterback situation. For me, it was always about, okay, I can root for my team to lose for better draft positioning when, A, there's a regime change coming, and B, we have a need for a quarterback. We do have the quarterback. this has been an injury-riddled season. You can just point to that number one and count five spaces before you get to number two as to why Washington is three and nine.

They've been decimated, and it's not just been man games. It's all of their best players on both sides of the ball that are either out for the year or have missed multiple games. It happens to NFL teams every once in a while where you get derailed by that. But it's hard for me to get to that now because we have the quarterback,

and there's no regime change coming. But I wanted to ask you, the quarterback obviously is a question mark. What about the GM and Kevin O'Connell? Yeah, that is where I'll put those two in separate conversations because from a front office standpoint, the Vikings have not landed a lot of successful draft picks since 2022 when Quasi Dovementa took over. Jordan Addison's been a hit at wide receiver.

Will Reichert was a kicker that they drafted a couple of years ago. It might be one of the five best pickers in the league. And it looks like edge rusher, Dallas Turner has shown some flashes. He's on a little, I think, a streak of three or four games in a row of the sack. It's a lot of crickets beyond that in terms of their drafting success. And they've also whipped on a couple key free agents. With that pool of money, they carved out by finally saying goodbye to the Kirk Cousin's contract train. They got to spend money in free agency for a couple years.

So I think going into the season even, Quasi Dofamensa was being questioned and sort of poked at, say, okay, what's going on with these drafts and the depth? Some of the players they've said goodbye to Nashon Wright, Ed Ingram, have thrived elsewhere. Mackay Blackman's is starting. He was a third-round pick for the Vikings with a thin cornerback room. He's starting for the Colts all season. So there's been some questions about the front office. Ryan Grickson is essentially their second guy in line in the front office.

Because Quasi comes from more of an untraditional stock market background. Ryan Grickson is the top football man in that front office, and he butchered the Colts for five years. But Kevin O'Connell, man, like I am the number one Kevin O'Connell propagandist in Minnesota media for four years, touting his winning percentage being one of the highest among current coaches, him being a quarterback whisperer and saving Sam Donald's career, Kirk Cousins with eight fourth quarter comebacks, where I made a mistake, and a lot

of other people, too, is we thought he was an all-encompassing quarterback whisperer who could work with anyone. And as it turns out, what we're finding out, at least with McCarthy, maybe Drake May would have been different if they could have traded up. But Kevin is a very niche

specific type of quarterback whisper. You need to be a veteran who speaks the language of a 3,000 level class, not an entry level class, who's been in the league for six or seven years, even if you haven't had success like a Sam Darnold, you've processed defenses long enough to where you can at least be in the upper level classes. And you have to be a good, accurate pocket passer. If you play out of structure, or if you are young and don't understand the speed of the game and the processing and just the behind the scenes, even the mechanics, which has been a big

discussion with McCarthy. He doesn't have a lot of examples like that in his quarterback whisper portfolio. So we're sitting here wondering, is J.J. McCarthy a straight up bust, or have they failed him in a way? Ironically, Kevin O'Connell went on Rich Eisen's show a year and a half ago and said he thinks organizations fail young quarterbacks before it's the other way around. And it kind of feels like the Vikings have, they've done very little to adjust what Kevin O'Connell wants to do, deep, long-developing passes, one of the highest pass percentages

as a play caller in the league. They have not really come back to McCarthy in those ways. So we're left to sort that through over the next six months as well. Did Kevin want J.J. McCarthy or was it the general manager who wanted J.J. McCarthy? You traded up a spot or two to pick him. Yeah. But they didn't, when the quarterback started peeling off the board, if they really loved J.J. McCrard. They tried to go up and get Drake May and were told no. What we don't know is

could they have kicked in an extra first? Did they try to, did they do one of those offers where here you get three first round picks, you kick back a fourth, a third, and they couldn't meet in the middle? But to your point, if they loved McCarthy and the Falcons were apparently hunting for a quarterback and other teams were lurking too, they didn't love him enough to move up beyond one spot. So that's always been an interesting question. But if you start to sort of read the tea leaves going back two or three years, the front office led by Quasi was pretty vocal about wanting to get out from underneath the big quarterback contract into the rookie scale contract quarterback game so that you can open up a five-year window and build a roster. That was by the way, that was

your preference all along because when I was watching and listening to you guys, you wanted out of the heavy, you know, and by the way, never, never disagreed with you because Kirk was not an elite quarterback. He was not a strap-the-team to his back kind of quarterback. He wasn't when he was here. And you didn't want them to pay him like he was, and that always made sense. But you were in favor of, let's try to find that rookie quarterback deal and build a great team around it and hope we, you know, land on the right quarterback. Yeah. And I think what maybe myself and other should have echoed more loudly is this is not 100%

certain to click and work right away. No. You are willingly taking on a certain, but you're giving up some certainty at quarterback to walk into this formula that if you hit on it, could open up an incredible

window of contention for you. And obviously, it has not worked out in the way that they or myself or others envisioned two years ago. But here's the interesting part to answer the rest of your question. Did Kevin O'Connell want this? You know, I think he said some of the right things going into the 2024 draft about things he was looking for with the young quarterback. But all along since 2002, the first two years of Kevin O'Connell, he was very vocal

and frontal about wanting to keep Kirk Cousins when he arrived, extend Kirk Cousins into 2023. Even when the Falcons wound up signing him, Kevin was publicly saying he's hopeful hoping and expecting that they can find a way to keep cousins. Okay, they don't. So they move on. They signed Sam Darnold, veteran quarterback, Shanahan system the year before. And then they draft J.C. McCarthy. He has the success with Sam Darnold.

The other thing that happened before they drafted McCarthy that not many people have talked about recently, but Adam Schepter reported on that draft night, the Vikings called on Justin Herbert. They basically said, hey, Jim Harbaugh, you give us Justin Herbert. you can take our high first round pick and you can draft your guy, J.J. McCarthy. They were shot down by the Chargers. And then this following year, Kevin O'Connell, stumping to keep Sam Darnold, stumping to sign Daniel Jones, front office drawing a line on those contracts and saying,

nope, we've got McCarthy, you're going to develop him. And then there was the two-month flirtation with Aaron Rogers. Right. So all the while the organization is going into rookie quarterback, rookie scale contract mode, let's do it this way. O'Connell was clinging to cousins, Sam Darnold, Daniel Jones, and flirting with Aaron Rogers. And so it does make you think,

I think Kevin O'Connell is best suited to work with veteran quarterbacks. Okay, well, if they decide that as an organization here in the next few months, what are your options if you move off McCarthy? You're not going to draft someone, even if you're picking high, because, well, that didn't work the last time, and he wants a veteran quarterback. So, I mean, are we going to get into the Mac Jones business here in 2026 or Aaron Rogers one last ride at age 42? So it's wide open.

Well, there's another option out there next year. And he's actually looked good in his last two starts because he's healthy. But that would probably be a non-starter with the fan base, right? Wait a second. His last two starts. Yeah, it would be one, you know, Kerkow. Yes. Oh, I'm, okay. We're bringing it full circle. Okay. So I wouldn't, I wouldn't entirely rule that out. But I think because he's still sitting on that, what's his base salary still? Yeah, I forget, I forget what it is. Whatever is. Yeah. I think it would have to be a release or the Falcons eating a big chunk. I, listen, if it's, if he's coming in and you're not picking out much of that contract and it's, all right, it's J.J. McCarthy and then Kirk Cousins for.

not $45 million, I 100% could see that playing out. Yes. All right. One last thing on the quarterback thing, because I've heard a lot about, you know, Darnold and Daniel Jones and the regret of O'Connell. Do you think Sam Darnold, had he been pursued by Minnesota to come back for another year, would have come back, rather than going to a place where he knew he was going to be the starter and the starter for multiple years ahead of him, like Seattle? I think he would have had to have been given assurances that it wasn't a camp battle. You know, I think if you were to have told Sam Darnold, hey, listen, man, wow, we didn't

expect it to play out this way, but you blew us away. I know we dropped it JJ McCarthy, but we're going to keep JJ on the roster, but you have essentially forced us, Sam, to go into the Jordan Love plan here with J.J. McCarthy. Which, you know, maybe you don't want to hear that either because he's still going to be on the team and lurking behind you. But here's a $100 million contract, and you are the unquestioned starter in 2006. And if you play well again, we'll probably just trade J.J. McCarthy, whose stock probably won't plummet if he just sits behind you. But the other option, you could have retrospect in hindsight 2020, you could have committed to Sam Darnold at the $33 million a year, which, by the way, is half of what the top of the market is,

Jack Prescott's cap hit is $60 million. So all of this, like, all of this gnashing of the teeth of, oh, do you want to give Sam Darnall $100 million? There's this new market because of everyone's impatience with quarterbacks, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Daniel Jones, even Gino Smith for a few years, making $20 or $30 million less than the top quarterbacks on the market because they, you know, they didn't develop until they were 26 or 27 years old. You could do a lot worse than a Sam Darnold, even with some of his flaws, at $33 million.

So you could have made that decision and then traded J.J. McCarthy, whose stock still would have been worth probably a first or a second round pick with the car still in the ground. Like the wrapping paper was still on the package back in March with J.J. McCarthy. Here's the thing about Darnold, though. From afar, correct me if I'm wrong. after his last two games last year, especially that playoff game where he just refused to throw the football and got sacked over and over again in the Rams playoff game loss. Was there a big appetite at the end of last season to bring Darnold back?

I mean, it sounds like O'Connell wanted a veteran. O'Connell may have seen something in McCarthy that scared him, who knows, but it's easy in hindsight sitting where you guys. are right now. But how, you know, excited were people about the prospect of Donald coming back after his final two games? Yeah, I know you're right. The temperature on that notion had cooled considerably among fans and media, and I think even internally with the Vikings. Because those last two games, the biggest, most high leverage games of the season, and the concern was, oh, he reverted when the, you know, when the stakes got high and the speed of the game,

went up even more because it's basically playoff games, he turned into a pumpkin again. But that's all part of the decision-making. People view these quarterback decisions as black and white that either Sam Donald's the guy or he's not. And so if you're the Vikings and you're making that decision back in January of February, you're weighing a few different factors. Number one, you've got a guy that has not stepped foot. on the field yet in a regular season game that you drafted 10th overall that is set up making

no money to step in and be your quarterback of the future if you want to pull the trigger. So it's not like you're moving off Darnold into nothing in a big question mark. You've got a plan if you want to implement it, which they did. And then on the Darnold front, I think you're weighing the odds that this was a one-season pop-up in 2024. are we better off bailing while the value is fairly high and somebody else like Case Keenham in 2017 led the 13-win Minneapolis Miracle Vikings, right?

And the Vikings decided, you know, that was fun, but we don't believe he can do it again. He's too flawed. He's too reckless. Let's move on. Let him be somebody else's problem. And that's when they signed Kirk Cousin. And so with Sam Donald, part of their bet was,

we aren't 100% sure he can repeat this performance, and also we'd rather not pay him the $33 million. Right. Obviously, in retrospect, I think they would have made a different decision. Real quickly on McCarthy, personality-wise, this alter ego nine in the whole thing, how are you guys handling that? I mean, I'll say this, like having, I don't know him that well, but just having some interactions with him kind of behind the same. scenes. I think he is a great kid. I think he's got some great leadership intangibles. I also think there's a little bit of like immature silliness, if you will, there. He's got, there's a little bit of, I don't know, it's almost like he's cosplaying as of Tim Tebow or

something. There's been some skeptical Purple Daily listeners that have coined him the Midwest Tim Tebow. Because he's, you know, he says all the right things. and he's the, you know, he'll find a way at the end of some of these games to just snap out of it and lead a miracle touchdown drive at Soldier Field or whatever and give you the mean mug. But I don't know if you heard what Bruce Ariens said on McAfee's show a couple weeks ago. Dude, literally the only alter ego I need is completion. It's called CP, complete passes, bro. That's your alter ego.

All right, I want to get to your team's defense because I think Brian Flores does a great job and I think there's some talent over there. We'll get to that with Phil right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Guys, I introduced you to Goldbelly about a year ago. It's an amazing site that I order from now all the time. It's a place where you can get the most iconic, famous foods from restaurants all across the country.

They'll ship it to you no matter where you are. Goldbelly ships you iconic Chicago deep dinner. pizza from Lou Malnoughties or New York's most famous cheesecake from juniors. If you're craving barbecue, they'll ship it from Franklin's barbecue, the legendary Texas barbecue straight to your door. And you've got to try the one and only world-renowned stone crab delivered from Joe's in Miami. Whether it's a dish from that one-of-a-kind restaurant or meals from world-famous chefs like Jose Andres, Goldbelly has you covered. If you're looking for that perfect gift or want to impress your friends and family with an epic meal the next time you host, go to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code Sheehan.

That's goldbelly.com code Sheen for 20% off your first order. Hey guys, taking care of your mental health shouldn't be harder than taking care of your physical health. If you pull a muscle, you go see a doctor. But when it comes to finding the right therapist, suddenly it can be frustrating. You've got long wait lists. You're staring down huge out-of-pocket costs. That's what usually stops people from getting help. And that's where Rula comes in.

Rula makes therapy simple, affordable, and fast. They work with most major insurance plans, and the average session co-pay is just $15. It's basically the cost of lunch. But instead of a sandwich, you're investing in your... own headspace. And with Rula, you're not just matched and left to figure it out on your own. They check in and make sure you're actually making progress. Every therapist on the platform is licensed, vetted, and picked for their expertise. So you know you're talking to someone legit, not just whoever happens to be available. Getting started couldn't be easier. You answer a few

quick questions about what matters to you. And Rula connects you with an in-network provider who actually fit your needs. You pick the time and you could be talking to a therapist as soon as the next day. No weeks of waiting, no endless back and forth. Thousands of guys have already used Rula to finally get the care they need. Don't keep putting it off. Go to Rula.com slash Shean to get started today. That's RU-L-A.com slash sheen.

Take the first step. Get connected and take control. of your mental health. This episode's brought to you by prize picks. It's the holiday season, the best time of the year for sports, bowl games, basketball matchups, playoff pushes. It's all happening at once. And while you and I are out here making decisions every day,

what gifts to buy, what to eat, which game to watch, there's one place where it feels good to be right, prize picks. Prize picks is fun. It's exciting. It's a game of skill. It's easy to play. Prize picks present you with stat projections, and all you have to do is pick more or less. Example, the big game on Sunday at Lambo between the Packers and the Bears.

Jordan Love, one and a half touchdowns, more or less. That's all it is, more or less on between two and six players and their stat projections. If you get the picks right, you cash in. Prize picks now has early payouts. If your lineup gets off to a hot start, you may now have the option. to cash out your winnings before the game even finishes. Download the Price Picks app today and use Code Sheehan to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That's Code Sheen to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup.

Price Picks, it's good to be right. Window Nation is still offering 50% off all Windows and Windows. window styles and 0% interest if you choose to finance the purchase for five years. You won't pay any interest until the year 2030. If you've got older windows or you just want your home to look nicer and you've been thinking about new windows, all I ask is give Windonation a chance to come out and give you a free in-home estimate. There's no pressure put on, no obligation. They'll come out in an hour or less. They'll leave you with a quote. It will include the current deal. 50% off everything. You're paying half price on anything you purchase, along with the opportunity

to pay 0% interest for five years. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to windownation.com. We continue with Phil Mackey from Score North and from Purple Daily. He and his guys do a great job with their podcast. So from a distance, it looks like the defense is good again, that Brian Flores is doing a great job again and that there's talent there. Tell me about what Washington faces tomorrow with Jaden Daniels back against Minnesota's defense. Yeah, so it's definitely, I mean, it's a good defense. It's not the defense that was, I believe, top five in yardage and scoring or thereabouts last year, in part because they aren't forcing turnovers like they did.

I believe they've only forced 11 turnovers all season. and five of them came against the Bengals with a backup quarterback in like week three or week four. So it's, you know, Brian Flores defenses are very much designed to confuse quarterbacks and offensive lines at the line scrimmage, create pressures, sacks, and turnovers. And Jonathan Grinard, they're leading sack getter from a year ago only has two sacks on the season. And like I said, they've only forced a handful of turnovers outside of that bengal.

games. So they've, they've, they've, they've been a little bit more stout. They made, they made Sam Darnham's life miserable last week. And you can move the ball between the 20s on this defense. Situationally, third downs, red zone, they've been pretty stout. But, um, I think it's, it really, with this Viking's offensive passing game, Washington doesn't have to score a whole lot of points against Brian Fores's, if you, if you, if you score about 17 points and ride the running game in the second half. It should be enough based on what we've seen the last five or six weeks from this passing offense. Yeah, I don't know how much of Washington's defense you've caught this year.

But our concern is that McCarthy goes 21 of 22 for 317 and three touchdowns and resurrects his very young career, which it's amazing that people are thrown in the towel on somebody who's got seven starts or eight starts or whatever it is. So, yeah, now Dan Quinn has taken over the responsibilities of play calling and coordinating, and it's gone a little bit better. You know, what's interesting is in looking at your team and our team, they've gone through the gauntlet schedule-wise. You know, you guys, you know, had, starting with Philly, it's Philly, the Chargers, Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, Green Bay, Seattle. And we went through it as well. You know, it was Dallas, Kansas City, Seattle, Detroit, you know, Denver on Sunday

night. It's just been, for our team, it's like the worst possible stretch when you had all of your key players or many of them out. And with you guys, obviously, it's been a quarterback issue. From your standpoint, and I'm sure you've already done this, but as you look at this game, the keys for a Minnesota win are what? Well, with myself rooting for a loss, I will give you the flip-side analysis of this. I think it with, I agree, Washington's defense is a great spot for the Vikings

to start digging out of this hole from a passing game perspective, but it's simplifying things, man. Kevin O'Connell, for as many great qualities as he has shown as a head coach and an offensive mind the last four years, he has a couple major blind spots that have popped

up, especially with a young quarterback. The biggest thing for the Vikings, they are one of the worst third down teams in the NFL, 30% third down conversion rate. And it's even, it gets even worse when it's third and short, fourth, and short. No team passes the ball more on third and short, fourth, and short than the Minnesota Vikings with negative success. And Kevin O'Connell continues to bang his head against a wall in those situations for not just this year, for four years. So you can sometimes, you can simplify things for your young quarterback by not calling a pass play, especially when it's

third and two or third and one, fourth and one. You probably saw the blooper highlight with undrafted free agent rookie Max Brosmer, who was playing quarterback for the last week. Rolling out to his right, stumbling and throwing an underhand tick six the other way. That was a fourth and one in field goal range. You could kick a field goal, tie the game. You could run the ball and move forward six inches and get a first down, which when they do run the ball on third down, they convert at a 71% rate.

or you could call a rollout to the right with your immobile undrafted rookie free agent quarterback who's playing at Seattle for the first time. So some of it's like basic play calling and decision making on the part of the head coach. And also not just dialing up YOLO long developing route. She was very self-reflective in his assessment of it for the first time all season this week saying, yeah, I haven't done a good enough job. Just kind of like stripping back the things that I know work well in this system. but for young quarterbacks maybe aren't achievable. So if there are a more simplified version that's run heavy

that they can implement for the first time, we'll see. Well, you know what's coming, Phil. An off-season, actually, it's an in-season for you guys right now, but certainly an off-season of lots of quarterback talk. It could be worse, but it could be a lot better if you had that position figured out and you were getting ready for playoff games like last year, that's for sure. But as always, it's great to catch.

up. Hope you're well. Thanks for doing this. All right, Kevin. See you, my friend. We'll talk to Mark Schlebeau from ESPN about his story detailing the Lane Kiffin departure from Ole Miss, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, it's great to have Harry's as a sponsor on today's show. I've been a customer of Harry's Razors for five or six years now, going back to the first time they advertised on the podcast, and I became aware of their products. and I fell in love with their product. It's not only a great shave, but I realized very early on

that the blade lasted much longer than my previous razor blade did. And it was very affordable. Harry's owns their own world-class blade factory in Germany. No outsourcing, no middleman. They control the entire process from steel to shelf that keeps costs low. Why pay $30 for refills when Harries gives you better blades for a fraction of that. Harries has launched their most advanced razor ever, and it's still cheaper than Gillette Fusion 5. If you don't love your shave, Harries will make it right. No questions asked.

They offer a risk-free trial, meaning there's zero downside to giving it a shot. Harry's Plus is Harry's heaviest razor handle ever, made from metal, never plastic, designed to fit comfortably in your hand. A heavier handle means more control and a luxury feel. Harry's doesn't just make razors. They've got a full line of grooming essentials from shave gel to deodorant to body wash, all thoughtfully made and priced to stock up. For a limited time, my listeners can get the Harry's Plus trial set for only $10 at harries.com slash Sheen. This set includes the all-new Harries Plus Razor, one refined five-blade cartridge, a two-ounce foaming shave gel, and a travel cover to protect your blades on the go.

Just head to Harries.com slash Sheen to claim this offer. And after you make your purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them, please support this show and tell them that I sent you. You shouldn't have to go out of your way to feel like yourself and Hymns brings expert care straight to you to ensure that happens with 100% online access to personalized treatment plans that put your goals first. No hidden fees, no surprise costs, just real personalized care on your schedule for simple online access to personalized and affordable care for hair loss, ed, weight loss, and more, visit hymns.com slash sheen. That's hymns.com slash sheen for your free online visit. Hymns.com slash sheen. Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral monoxidil and phenosteride.

Featured products include compounded drug products, which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness, or quality. Prescription required. See website for. for full details, restrictions, and important safety information. Quick favor to ask of those of you who have not rated or reviewed this podcast, if you can spare 30 to 60 seconds to do it, it's huge for us, especially on Apple and Spotify. Both places give you a chance to give us up to five stars. The more ratings we get, the higher ratings we get, the better it is for this podcast.

Also following the podcast, just hit the plus button or the follow button. That's big as well. All right. Joining me right now, Mark Schlebeau from ESPN and ESPN.com. Mark's been covering college football and golf at ESPN for years now, and he's always done a great job with the longer story behind this story. And this week's story in college football was Lane Kiffin's departure from Ole Miss. to LSU and Mark wrote a great column, a great story detailing everything that happened leading

up to it and then in the hours before his departure and then shortly thereafter. Mark, thanks, as always, for making time for me. So I wanted to start with this, Mark. We know that Lane Kiffin's always had a wandering eye. He's always looking for his next gig, even if he's got a really good gig. This is a pretty wild offseason with respect to the number of coaching availabilities and big-time availabilities. If LSU and Florida weren't open in this particular pending off season, would he have flirted with anybody else? Was there anybody else out there that would have got him to flirt with and perhaps seriously consider leaving Ole Miss. other than LSU in Florida? You know, the only one that really, Kevin, I could think of would be Florida State

if they'd fired Mike Norvell. Mike offered the FSU Athletic Director, reached out to him. I was told you reached out to him earlier in 2023 when Nick Sabin stepped down. Lane was going to be the guy then if Mike Norville went to Alabama to replace Sabin. But, yeah, I don't think Penn State, I mean, it's a great job. It's got great tradition, but it's not Lane Kiffin. He wanted to go somewhere with a brand name, a Blue Blood, 100,000-seat stadium, $35 million or whatever to get players. So, I mean, that was what he wanted.

And he had it at Ole Miss besides the 100,000-feet stadium. Right. So before we get to kind of the last few days and the hours that followed their win over Mississippi State last Friday, tell me when this became a legitimate possibility because Ole Miss's season was one of those seasons that as a college football fan, you're watching them every week. They had that huge game against LSU when LSU was undefeated and ranked third or fourth in the country. They had that massive game as an undefeated team at Georgia, which was a great football game. They had the game against Oklahoma, the game against Florida.

And I'm wondering when this became, you know, Lane Kiffin is a possibility to leave Ole Miss for either LSU or Florida. So early on in this, the Florida people were convinced he was coming there. his ex-wife Layla Kiffin you know moved to Oxford, Mississippi to be closer to her kids

their relationship is good now I'm told in terms of co-parenting and all that he they thought

because of her connections to Florida her father John Reeves played quarterback there he coached under She's Breyer

at Florida right they thought that was where he would be but then when LSU fired Brian Kelly

that was the job I've always said LSU is the best job in the country because every kid in the state of Louisiana, 99.9% of them grow up dreaming about playing for LSU at Tiger Stadium on Saturday night. That's what they want to do if they're really good at football.

You know, he doesn't have to compete against Florida State or Miami for prospects like he would have at Florida. So when that job opened, you know, Virgil Osbury wanted him. And then I think it hit a fever pitch when his family flew to Gainesville and then flew to Baton Rouge the next day and really didn't try to hide it.

I mean, Florida flew its plane right into Oxford's airport. LSU flew its plane into Oxford's airport. They were seen around town at those other SEC schools. So I think that's when Keith Carter, the Ole Miss AD

and Glenn Boyce, the chancellor, said, we've got to get the reins on this. we're having the best season in Ole Miss history in 60 years and he's going to hijack this thing and make it all about him and that's ultimately what happened. All right, we're going to get to the details

of last week and whether or not there was ever a chance, legitimate chance he could have coached Ole Miss through this month and the playoff. But you just said something I want to follow up on. You think LSU is the number one job in college football? I've said that for a long, long time.

I think that is a built-in, inherent advantage. I don't think it's as much of an advantage anymore because of the transfer portal. In the past, if you could get, I mean, look at just Burger McFarland and Marcus Spears, just guys who work at the SPN, all the defensive linemen that have come out of Louisiana and so many great players. And it was a big advantage.

When Nick Saban was there, it was a huge. advantage. I mean, look, all due respect, less Miles and Ed Orger on one national... Yes, right, right. I don't think they're cracking the top 50 of all-time greater coaches. It's just, and that they care. I mean, they've got the Saints. They've got the Pelicans. I think they're still there. But they only care about LSU in that state for the most part. Now, New Orleans gets crazy when the Saints are good, but that whole state, it's about LSU football.

It's a top five sporting event that I've ever been to, being in Death Valley at night to see Bama and LSU. I mean, that was on the bucket list, and I crossed it off seven, eight years ago. And it's, I mean, I've often thought there's no way it's outside the top five in terms of available jobs. You've got it at number one. But, man, things have really changed, right? Like, what's number, give me just a quick number two and number. 3 after LSU. Is Notre Dame even in that conversation anymore?

Are you talking to a guy that grew up 30 minutes from South Bend? No. It's SEC schools, and I'm going to be biased because I live in Georgia and with the school of Georgia and I've covered the league for 30 years. But when you talk about recruiting base and tradition and available resources, if you've been to Georgia's campus lately or Alabama's or LSUs, it's insane. I mean, I would put those top three jobs in the country. Yeah.

Texas, Texas A&M? Yeah. Texas probably. Texas A&M hasn't won anything, but they've got every advantage you would want to. Yeah, like energy and oil money to start with. What about Ohio State? Like you don't think Ohio State's in that conversation? yeah they're top four it's those four in some order yeah i would say i stayed over michigan

i just don't i wouldn't want to live there yeah columbus columbus is not for everybody um that's for sure all right uh so did he legitimately want to coach his team through the playoff he 100 percent wanted to coach his team in the playoff i'm just not convinced anybody else wanted him to coach in the playoff. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, with him, you just, you don't even know what to believe anymore, and you wrote very, you know, much about sort of the players' thoughts. And, you know, I had a different impression earlier in the week as to what the players wanted. So, you know, real quickly, before we get to that next step of the playoff, you wrote in your story that if Auburn

somehow knocks off Bama and Ole Misses in the SEC title game. He's still there, and he's coaching Ole Miss against Georgia to. Yeah, I think that, yeah, Keith Carter, the AD told me Tuesday night that that was a real possibility because it would have been such a short turnaround to get ready. And Ole Miss hadn't won a SEC title since 62, I think, or maybe 60. and that, you know, with the playoff, they at least had two or three weeks to get a transition in place and name and interim and everything else, but that if they'd had a chance to win the SEC and secure a first round by, he probably would have gone one lane.

So I earlier in the week talked about how if I'm an Ole Miss fan, if I'm an Ole Miss power that be, you know part of the athletic department part of the board of regents or whatever it is i'm just not going to cut off my nose despite my face we've not been in this position ever we may never be in it again what's another three four five weeks to try to give you know this state what it's desired going back to archie manning and probably before so was there ever a chance that could happen and if not Why? From the day he informed Keith Carter and Chancellor Boyce that he was talking to LSU at Florida, they made it clear to him, you're not going to coach in the playoffs.

If you take a job, you're not going to coach. If you take a job in the SEC, one of our rivals, we're not going to allow you to coach. They felt like it was their best bargaining chip to get him to stay. and as someone told me after it was done, it wasn't that Ole Miss wasn't allowing LSU's coach to coach at Ole Miss. They weren't allowing Lane Kiffin to coach at Ole Miss because I feel like they just felt like they couldn't trust him.

Look, he's probably going to take some players from Ole Miss and probably some of their best ones. I would not be surprised to see Trinidad Chambers, the quarterback at LSU, year if he gets another year of eligibility, I wouldn't be surprised to see Q1 Lacey. You know, the SEC's leading rush for, I think he is at LSU next year. He's a sophomore. You know, they're there are guys that are going to follow him.

And I think that's going to happen whether he would have coached in the playoff or not. But, you know, Virgil Osbury, the LSUAD said Monday, Kevin, he said, you know, we wanted him to coach at Ole Miss in the playoffs. It would have been great for our institution. because he's coaching in the playoff, he maybe wins a national championship, and then he's LSU's coach. So it was a four-month, or excuse me, a four-week infomercial for LSU, and that's exactly what Ole Miss didn't want.

Yeah, but to your point, it's the number one job in America. They hardly need an infomercial. Those players and coaches that we're going to go with him, we're going to go regardless of whether or not he left this week or in four weeks from now. I'm wondering how much of it had to do with the fact that he is just a person that nobody can trust and probably just wore out as welcome, you know, from a personality standpoint, like kind of he has in a lot of other places. Yeah, I'm trying to think the first time I went out there, well, I've been out there three times in like the last six weeks, the second time I went out there right after

it was the day it came out that his family had taken the visits to Baton Rouge and Gainesville. I was like an hour from Sea Island, Georgia, going to the last BGA tour event of the year and they called me and told me to go back to Oxford. I turned around and drive to Oxford. It was like eight and a half hours.

But anyway, when I went there, they had already said, got people there had already told me. He went from Ole Miss. fans wanted to build a statue of him, the one to run him out of town. They put it as another way. But even at that point, they were tired of it, just the drama, the uncertainty, the anxiety. It was all about him, and it should have been a celebration of Ole Miss's best season in 60 years. So I use this analogy this week, and it's not apples to apples, I understand

that, but it was to kind of emphasize, you know, how it's handled or would have been handled, had the person involved been of sort of high character and less insufferable. Like Bill Snyder at Kansas State, who was there forever and was revered by that university, revered in the state. If he had taken the Notre Dame job, you know, three weeks before Kansas State started a playoff run, both sides would have bent over backwards to make sure that he was able to coach the team and finish the job, and then would have wished them well. I understand it's not apples to apples, but I guess my point is,

and I want you to comment on it, is that if Lane Kiffin were a human being that people actually liked, this could have happened with him coaching his team and finishing the job, you know, over the next three to four weeks. Yeah, I mean, look, John Summerall.

I know, Tulane. He's going to, you know, if Tulane wins the American, he's going to coach Tulane in the playoff. Right. If James Madison somehow gets in the playoff, Bob Chesney, he's taking the UCLA job, is going to coach James Madison.

Right. Again, what that source told me, did stop, we weren't, you know, letting the LSU coach at Old Miss. We weren't letting Lane Kippen coach at Old Miss anymore. And the other thing is, right or wrong, the Old Miss people feel like LSU is their biggest rival, even before them.

Now, it's not Mississippi State. If you go back to the 50s and 60s, that would be fiercest rival. And it just, I think they play, LSU plays in Oxford next September 19th. That's going to be a hell of an atmosphere. Oh, my God. Get your mustard bottles ready.

Yeah, that one's going to be something else. One last thing on this. You know, there was, you wrote about how Kiffin basically said to, you know, the old miss people, look, when you break this to the players, they're not going to be happy. You know, go ask the players. They're not going to be happy about me not being able to coach them in the playoff. And it turned out that he was a bit off on that. Take us through the kind of the players from his standpoint, wanting him to coach to that not being true.

Yeah, this was even after the Iron Bowl was played, this was Sunday morning. He's still lobbying the coach in the playoffs after they told him no. and he told the AD Keith Carter he said you need to meet with the leadership council you're not going to like what you hear you know

and Carter went into the meeting assuming he was going to get some pushback from the players on Lane being forced out and they were like now we're done, we're tired of it you know like I said earlier it's all about him

you know this isn't and they said they were more torches told me they were more concerned about whether Pete Golding and some of the assistant coaches were staying. And the other thing, you know, at one point, he just held the program hostage. He said, well, if you don't let me coach, I'm taking all my 50 coaches with me to Baton Rouge on

Sunday. I mean, because that was his last bargaining chip. I mean, it was a standoff. And then there were a couple guys, the starting center and Santerine Perkins, they're one of their best linebackers, both those guys are on the leadership council, and they went on Twitter, of course, and said, yeah, this isn't one. what happened. And yet Charlie Weiss, who's going to go with Kiffin to LSU, is being brought back to call plays in their first playoff game. I guess they feel like they can trust Charlie

more than Lane is the only thing I can guess. Yeah. I mean, you know, the uniqueness of this situation is that they're 11 and 1 because of him more than anybody else, right? I mean, his, this isn't like a CEO coach who losing him isn't really going to impact the day-to-day or impact the play calling, they're 11-1 and going to host a playoff game in Oxford because of Lane Kiffin more than anything else. I said on the SEC Network Friday morning, he's a train wreck from Sunday to Friday, and he's one of the most brilliant guys in the sport on Saturdays. I mean, he is a tremendous, tremendous play caller.

but he you know he's not he's not a detailed guy I don't he's not the recruiter he's not a great recruiter like Kirby Smart or you know Davosweeney or some of those guys

that's why I don't think the players you know didn't stand up and said he has to coach because I don't know how much the relationship he had with some of those guys all right let's switch gears here quickly and talk about what might happen over the next month in college

football in terms of the playoff. But real quickly, before we get to that, I know that you covered the story three years ago in Charlottesville, the tragic shooting of three Virginia football players. And I know that you have followed this season very closely in the job that Tony Elliott's done down in Charlottesville, UVA on the precipice of winning an ACC championship. If they can do it on Saturday night in Charlotte, they're in the playoff. I know that you have some thoughts on. this and have followed it closely, so go ahead. The floor is yours. Yeah, I mean, I covered the Cavaliers someone. I was at the Washington Post, and I was there

for that horrific shooting, and, you know, just saw how beat down Tony Elliott was at the time. And he even told Andrew Adelson, one of my colleagues, earlier this season, he almost quit. He almost retired from coaching just because it took so much out of him. and to see them pick that place up off the map and get them back to where they've got a chance to win the ACC and go to the college football. Well, I think it's the best story in college football.

You know, and I've known Carla Williams. The AD there for a long time, she was an associate AD at Georgia, and he's, you know, he got people to step up and, you know, giving them some money to go out and build a roster and proved he could do it. He did a fantastic job as Clinton's,

OC for a while, for a long time. And I'm just really, really happy for Tony. Do they beat Duke and do they make it to the playoff? If they're a football god, they will. Yeah, for sure. I just hope Virginia wins by less than four. But that's another subject altogether. So Sunday, we get the playoff field.

We get the bracket. And the situation that is brewing if BYU loses the Big 12 championship game to Texas Tech. They are a 12, 12.12.5 point underdog. And by the time some of you listen to this, that game may have already been played. But assuming BYU loses to Texas Tech, the committee is going to be faced with Notre Dame or Miami. Miami, for those of you who don't know, beat Notre Dame all the way back on Labor Day weekend in the season opener. I believe, Mark, right now, though, Notre Dame's a better team than Miami, and of the two, by far and away, Notre Dame's got the best chance if they're in the field to win the national championship. Do you agree or disagree?

Notre Dame's gotten a lot better on defense. I think it took them a little while to adjust with Chris Ash, is the coordinator, new coordinator. They played better down the stretch. They haven't played. I mean, I heard Marcus Freeman, earlier in a week, complaining about dropping a spot, but I don't know what beating up Stanford does for you at this point. But, yeah, I mean, Notre Dame's balance on offense. They throw the ball better than they did last year. They reached the championship game. Love is fantastic. They're good on defense.

Miami. Miami's just inconsistent. Carson Beck turns it over too much. Yeah. And, I mean, Kevin, bottom line, one's name Notre Dame and the other one is. Well, I know that. And we are talking about Miami, too. It's not like we're comparing Notre Dame to Tulane or Houston or Georgia Tech for that matter.

So tell me who you think the best teams in college football are and the teams that we will see in a national championship game when all is said and done. I think as of right now the three best teams in the country, and I never thought these words would come out of my mouth. Ohio State, Indiana and Texas Tech. The Indiana. It's amazing when oil money and Mark Cuban's money will do. It's amazing, man. It has helped out. I give Signetti all the credit in the world, though. That guy is a hell of a coach. Yeah, he is. Real quickly, before I let you run, what do you make of the Maryland situation?

I'm a Terp, and Mike Loxley's got a 17 and 47 Big Ten record, and he's coming back, the athletic director who is new, said we're running it back. We're going to give him the resources that he hasn't had. What do you make of Maryland football and Loxley getting another year? Yeah, there's been a few schools do that. Instead of fire in Florida State, they said we're going to rebuild the rebuild the front office, Wisconsin, face the same issue with Luke Fickle and that AD. And Wisconsin's been notoriously key.

Barry Alvarez started that precedent. But I don't know. It's just Maryland has never seemed like a great fit in the Big Ten to me. And it's just, you know, but they should be better than what they are. Yeah. Thanks for doing this. I think at one point, though, Kevin, when you had openings at Florida and LSU and Auburn and Penn State. Yeah.

I mean, look at the SEC. The SEC hired three American coaches. Yeah. Not saying they're not good football coaches, but. Right. No, it would have been a terrible year to be in the coaching search, you know, realm when you're Maryland up against that. No

doubt. Yeah, and you talk about the increased parity and everything, too, the fact that Clark Lee signed an extension at Vanderbilt, Brent Key signed an extension at Georgia Tech. I mean, there were other guys that did the same thing and took themselves out of the market, so guys feel like

you don't have to be at a big, big program anymore to win. If Matt Campbell ends up at Penn State, is that a great hire for them? It's probably what you should have started with. Yep. yeah he's been tough to pry out of aim and uh he does he does more with less he's done it for a long time he's a really good football coach i mean a lot of good teams have tried to get him and

and he ended up signing his attention so that thing has been a disaster and it's been way too public but um he's ended up with a good football coach now you've got to find some recruits uh thanks for doing this uh really good story on the lame kiffin thing appreciate the time hope you're well. You too, thank you. Mark Schlebe, everybody. Done for the day, back tomorrow after the Skins-Vikings game.