The Kevin Sheehan Show - Vinny Cerrato

Episode Date: May 10, 2019

Kevin opens the show with the one thing Dan Snyder hopefully learned from the last time the team selected a quarterback in the first round. Former Skins' GM Vinny Cerrato was a guest on the show. John Keim/ESPN was a guest as well. Plus some Nats talk and a quick Game of Thrones preview. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right, I am here. Aaron is here. This show is presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com and tell them that we told you to call. Vinnie Serrato scheduled to be on the show today. The Redskins, by the way, signed most of their draft picks prior to mini-camp starting today. Montez Sweat and Terry McLaurin. I think we're the only two that have not signed deals as of yet. But John Kime, who will be there all weekend long, will join us a little later on in the show as well. So with rookie minicamp starting today,

in effect, the Dwayne Haskins era begins today. Signed his deal yesterday, first mini camp today. I'll never forget, Aaron, the first rookie mini camp for RG3. it was the biggest turnout media-wise that I've ever seen for a mini-camp. In fact, I was thinking about just the training camp in Richmond for RG3 and how out of control that was. And you know what? The Haskins pick, you know, this is one of the things that the owner understands. They probably have sold additional tickets.

They probably have sold at least a few additional corporate sponsorships. They're not going nuts out there in Ashburn, but you know what? Training camp now becomes more of a go-to event, which it has not been in recent years. I mean, Richmond has been empty. But that first mini-camp for RG3, I'll never forget being there. And I forget who I was standing next to. It may have been Chris Russell. May have been Chris Russell.

and I noticed that RG3 was lined up in the pistol formation. And I made that observation. I'm like, look at that. He's in the pistol. Now, you know, most, unless you were a college football fan and really a hardcore college football fan, because you had to know Nevada at that point. And the only reason I think I knew Nevada was because they had played Maryland in a bowl game with Colin Kaepernick is the quarterback.

And they had Chris Salt, the head coach there, had basically invented the pistol formation, which was a little bit closer to center than you would be in the shotgun. But more importantly, the back would be directly behind the quarterback. And I remember thinking to myself, they're going to try some stuff. But the one conclusion that I came to out of that was they're just going to do some stuff in the red zone. You know, this is a red zone thing, just like Cam Newton had run some red zone read option stuff the year before. I had no idea what was coming and what would be unveiled in 2012. But I'll never forget that minicamp with just noticing that they had lined up in the pistol.

And I'm sure Mike and Kyle were probably like, you know, it's a mini camp. No one out here is going to notice what we're working on. But the other thing I remember was them waiting for the plan. plane, for RG3 in his first press conference, waiting for the planes to fly over and land at Dulles so it wasn't noisy. And he would wait before he would answer. And this made Tommy go completely nuts. He was like, oh, this guy's the greatest ever. And, you know, the truth is, he had an unbelievable amount of charisma, star power. He had a really great way in communicating and connecting with, you know, the media.

It was love at first sight for just about everybody out there. It really was. Now, I don't know if Haskins has that kind of natural appeal or pizzazz, but what we couldn't see with RG3 at the time, and what we need to hope was learned about the RG3 experience and will be applied to this young rookie first round quarterback, is we need to hope that the owner has learned something. And I'll get to that in a moment because I want to preface my answer to that

with the fact that the Haskins and RG3 draft experiences and even the players, it's not an apples to apples comparison. RG3 came in as a Heisman trophy winner. The Redskins traded away a ton of their future to get him. the organization was mostly all in on RG3. You know, I've heard people paint Mike's position, Shanahan's position, as him being vehemently against the trade-up

and the drafting of RG-3. That's not true. That's not something that Mike has ever said to anybody. He has talked in terms of having some reservations and that he had expressed those reservations to Bruce and Dan. But for the most part, he was intrigued and excited about it. Now, he has said many times, if he knew they were going to get hit with the $36 million salary cap penalty, they would have never made that trade. That he would have been dead set against making that trade. But don't believe those who have said that Mike Shanahan was strongly against the trade up and the drafting of RG3. That's just not what he's ever told me. Yes, he had reservations. The reservations were he didn't know if Griffin would be able to develop.

into a pocket passer because he hadn't done it in college. He didn't know if Griffin would be good facing adversity. I'll never forget the first time we did an on-air interview with Mike back in 2015, I think it was. One of the things that he talked about was one of the mini red flags was an interview that he had, a sit-down that he had with Griffin, and Griffin's father was there. And it was a conversation about a game in which he threw multiple intercept. in the game and he hadn't played very well. And Shanahan fired off a few questions about various plays in the game where Griffin had not read things right and he had thrown a pick or a bad throw.

And he said one of the early red flags with him and he was concerned about it and he expressed these concerns with Dan and Bruce is that Griffin and his father immediately blamed the play caller for his off game. He said that that bothered him, but he didn't fight Dan and Bruce on the trade up. He didn't. And he was very intrigued on what he thought he and Kyle could do with Griffin. But he was also very upfront that he warned Dan and Bruce that it was going to be a process for him to learn how to become a pocket passer and they were going to have to do some things in the short term to get them on the field and to give the team a chance at succeeding, which as we know in 2012, they did. So there was a difference between RG3 and Haskins. It's not a pure apples to

Apple's comparison. The organization, according to the reports, this time around, and as I've said before, I believe all of them, is that the organization as a whole was not all in on Dwayne Haskins. This was the owner's pick. With RG3, they were for the most part in agreement, minus again the few reservations that Shanahan had. But here's what I wanted to say about the lesson learned from Griffin. If Haskins is to succeed here, and as fans, if we want him to have the best chance at succeeding. There is one thing more than any other from the RG3 experience that we all have to hope that the organization, the owner in particular, learned from that Griffin experience.

The owner must make it clear that the final voice, when it comes to the development of Dwayne Haskins, the coaching of Dwayne Haskins, the playing time, everything that is football, everything that happens on a practice field or in a game is the head coach's voice and the head coach's voice only. It's the only one that should matter to Dwayne Haskins. His coaches, position coaches, his teammates, but the head coach is the final voice on this. If it isn't, and Haskins feels like he can go to the owner for football related issues, this is going to more likely than not fail. Maybe Dwayne Haskins isn't a predisposed personality-wise to do that. Let's hope so, because RG3 was. Even with the military background growing up in a military family,

he loved being entitled by the owner. This has to have been the learning experience from RG3. I'm personally afraid that the owner and team president may still to this day believe that Shanahan was to totally blame for what happened to RG3 here in Washington. But that's obviously false because other coaches that were brought in, Gruden here, then the experience he had in other places Cleveland included, it didn't work for him anywhere else either. Gruden was handpicked because they believed he would be able to revive Griffin's career. All right? Didn't happen. He had a problem with it. He had a problem with the owner's relationship. with Griffin too. Then he went to Cleveland. It didn't work. He was out of football for a year.

Now he's a backup in Baltimore. And maybe, you know, it will work out for him eventually as perhaps he's matured or maybe he hasn't. I don't know. It was the player in 2012, 2012, 2013, 2014. Not the coaches. It was the player and the owner. The owner made it more difficult on the player by entitling him. Griffin was allowed to go up to assistant coaches and tell them that he was having dinner with the owner and he'd put in a good word for him. Hey man, you know what? I'm going to put a good word in for you. This was off-putting to everybody in the organization. He was able to go to Dan and say, I'm not running this offense anymore. I'm a pocket passer. You're damn right you are. We're going to fix this. It was an utter shit show that the owner created between his prized jewel quarterback and the coaching staff and many of the players in the locker room. The all-in for week one in 2013 was embarrassing.

It's submarine that season before it ever started, pure sabotage by the owner. The owner must stay out of it this time. Let Jay, let Kevin O'Connell, let Matt Kavanaugh, let him coach this kid. and make this kid accountable, make him earn it. And then when he's earned it, make him keep earning it. That's the best hope we have to have, the hope we have to have, that the owner learned from 2012 and that he's not going to get in the middle of this relationship because it won't work that way.

Give this kid a fair shot, make him earn it, make him work. All right, we'll get to... Vinnie Serrato here shortly. We're expecting him to call us here momentarily. In the meantime, real quickly, a few other things from last night. The Nats shut out the Dodgers. That was a big win last night. Six to nothing. I didn't see any of it. I actually fell asleep early last night. Didn't see any of the Portland, Denver game. Howie Kendrick had a big night, had an early three-run Homer, which got him off to a fast start. Patrick Corbyn had a great start. Apparently, he is own the Dodgers here over the last year plus. Good win for them. Three more in L.A. this

weekend, Aaron. I was thinking, though, before the game last night, that with the NAT season heading the wrong way early, and it is early, and they've had injuries. But, you know, right now, in D.C., when was the last time that we had all four professional teams have so little to be optimistic about. And I'm not saying that there aren't things that we can pull out and say, hey, if this goes right and if Haskins is right and sweats right in the defense and the caps just this is a one-year aberration, they're going to be right back at it with a chance to win the cup next year. But right now, when was it the last time that we had four professional sports teams that looked at this down all at the same time? It's really, I remember in the

in the National's Press box a few weeks back, we were talking about, you know, when's the last time that we had both the Capitals and the Wizards eliminated by May, and it had been quite a while for that as well. So, I mean, I got to imagine it would be 2010-ish around there, somewhere around there. What was the year that John Wall was draft? Like, what year did that correspond with? Well, that Wall was drafted in 2010, right? So I think that 09-10 season was also a bad year for the Caps as well? Yeah. They were out in the conference quarter-final. So they were out early in the first round. So, yeah, that would be the last.

Well, 2010 was the loss to Montreal. Right, that was the lost to Montreal. So that was an early. Yeah. The Wizards had an awful year and the Nats were still, you know, in that phase. So that was probably, yeah, 2010 was the last time we had a May like this. I know other people obsess about this more than I do. But I absolutely give the caps a couple of years of a grace period.

Oh, absolutely. You know, they went down in the first round this year, and as you said, there wasn't playoff football, basketball, or hockey in May for the first time in a long time. It's been a while. The Wizards, though, are in the worst spot they've been in several years with not much to get excited about except a draft lottery, you know, and the potential that exists if they were to strike gold in that lottery. The Redskins over under for wins in 2019 is six and a half. The Nats and caps have pretty much provided most of the optimism in recent years. With the Wizards, I mean, some of us delusionally thinking that they could make a run to the conference finals, but they were in a game seven to get to the Eastern Conference finals two years ago. And three years ago, actually it's four years ago now, they should have been in the Eastern Conference Finals had John Wall not gotten hurt in that Atlanta series.

But yeah, sports right now, they're down. I would guess that the Caps probably have the best chance to do something big next year within the next two years. They still have the ability, and it's hockey. You know, it's, I mean, right now, Caroline is playing Boston in the Eastern Conference Finals. I think Boston won game one last night. And, you know, really, if Verona, if Verona's shot in the first overtime doesn't hit the post, but instead goes in, the caps could still be playing right now because it's hockey. But nobody else seems that close right now. Maybe we're writing off the Nats. I'm not writing them

off right now. It would be too quick to do so, but I think it would be hard to imagine a worse start for them. Yeah, I mean, you don't write them off, but you understand that it's unlikely that they make the playoffs this season. Exactly. NBA playoffs last night. Philadelphia was great. I did watch that game. Jimmy Butler, Ben Simmons in particular, so they force a game seven on Sunday, not Saturday. Portland did the same late. Lillard 32, McCollum 30. You get 62 from your starting backcourt. That's pretty good, and then Rodney Hood comes in off the bench and throws in 25. I love what he's doing right now, and I'm happy for him, because I think he's a good player. A bit of a scuffle, apparently, in the fourth quarter in that one. Right now, you have two game sevens on Sunday.

Neither of those games will be played on Saturday. I'm not sure why. They're all set for Sunday, and we may get a third one on Sunday tonight if Houston can force a deciding game by winning tonight at home in game six. I'm so interested in the game tonight and the potential game seven in that series on Sunday. Durant, by the way, the injury is he's out for the rest of this series. He will be re-evaluated next week. It was not an Achilles. It was a calf strain. I was thinking this morning, actually, because I was listening to a conversation, I think it was on ESPN's get-up, which, by the way, just as an aside, remember when we said this is a terrible show, show, this get-up show on ESPN, it's actually not that terrible anymore. They've done a good job.

First of all, they've shortened it to two hours. Maybe they did that from the beginning. I don't know. I haven't followed it closely enough. But Greenberg just constantly has just really good people on the show. You know, I like some of the basketball conversation they continue to have with a lot of the guys that they have talking hoops. But anyway, I was thinking about Duran and what's going through his mind right now. We know that Kevin Duran is a sensitive being. He created a fake Twitter account. This is a guy that has responded in recent years to criticism in a very immature way. He's also a great player, an all-time great and truly unique player as a score offensively and an underrated defender. But what if they win tonight, or what if they win, you know, the next, you know, they win, you know,

they win Sunday without him. Like he better stay off social media. Like he better not make a comment, you know, in an interview or on social media that makes him out to be sensitive to the criticism that will come of him if they win without him. Understand this. If they win this series without him, if they go on and play the Western Conference finals and they get to, the NBA finals without him if they were to win a title without him because there's no guarantee he's coming back next week. We don't really know the extent of the injury and how long he'll be out. But if they were to go ahead and win it without him, he's going to take some shots on social

media for sure. There's going to be a conversation about just how important Kevin Durant was to their last two titles. Like would they have won him anyway without him? I personally think he's been crucial to what they've done. And hopefully he understands that. But it doesn't mean that they can't win the title this year without him. There's still a damn good team without them. And that's what was so compelling about the other night is we hadn't seen the Warriors without them in a playoff series since 2016, right?

Yeah, since 2016, when they lost a 3-1 series lead for a chance to go back to back in a series where Draymond Green, I thought, was unnecessarily suspended for game five, and it hurt him in a closeout game at home, which would have given them back to back, which means they would have been in the midst of four in a row, potentially. Two with Durant, two without Durant. But it's one without Durant, two with Durant. But what if they were to go on and win the title without him? There will definitely be a contingent that will say,

ah, they didn't need Kevin Durant. and knowing Kevin Durant and how sensitive he is to criticism, it's going to be fascinating to see how he handles that, if that were to come to fruition. I'm rooting for Golden State. From the beginning, I was rooting for Golden State in this series. I just am not a fan of the way Houston plays. I love watching Harden.

Don't get me wrong. I'm just not a fan of the way they play, and I'm not a fan of how much they whine and complain. Everybody does in the league now. They do it too in unbelievable. level. Quick word about window nation. It's graduation time, not just for schools, but it's time for your home to graduate, up to new energy efficient windows from Window Nation. And as a graduation gift, all window styles right now are 50% off. You choose, bays, bows, double hung, wood,

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and you can get a house full of windows for just $69 a month. 86690 Nation or go online at windownation.com. That's 86690 Nation, or Windonation.com and tell them that I sent you. All right, let's welcome in former Redskins GM Vinnie Serato to the show. Vinny's been on Sports Talk Radio for a while now. In Baltimore, he hosts a show with Bob Haney on 1057, The Fan, 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. weekdays.

How are you? It's been a while. Yeah, I'm doing well. Enjoying the Ravens, the Orioles, and I spend most of my time at hockey rinks around the country. Why is that? You've got a kid playing hockey? I have a 14-year-old that plays on the number one Bannam team in the country, and we travel Toronto, Detroit, we go everywhere. That's tough, though, isn't it?

Hockey at a young age, I had a nephew that played hockey, you know, through college. There's a lot of early morning ice time, right? Well, you know what? started when I was at the Redskins. When I lived in Great Falls, Charlie started doing lessons over at the resting rink when he went to preschool over that way, and I'd take him Friday mornings at 6.30,

and he'd go there, and then I'd drop him off at school on the way to work. He's been skating since he's been four. It's a commitment hockey, you know, from a young age. Well, that's pretty cool. Did you have any interest in hockey, you know, growing up were, you know, professionally at any point, or was it just something that your son wanted to do? I grew up in Minnesota, so I played hockey.

I got recruited by University of Minnesota, Princeton for hockey, so I've always been a hockey fan, and when I was at the Redskins, George McPhee, and I were real good friends, he would always come out and bring his kids out to practice. and then Dan and I would go to the game sometimes, and then George invite us down, and we'd go. I remember we went down one time. My kids met Obetkin and Boudreau and everybody down in the locker room, and I still stay in contact with George now, asking him for hockey advice for my son. That's pretty cool.

Where did you grow up in Minnesota? Southern Minnesota, Albertly. Okay. You know what? You always liked radio. I mean, I remember, you know, during one of those seasons, you did the show on the station on 980 during the season. You always sort of liked the radio and the media format.

Are you enjoying what you're doing now? Yeah, I really like it because I get to talk about football a lot and the Orioles. And, you know, from 10 to 2, it's like you're hanging out with your buddies talking sports. So it's fun. I enjoy it. I work with good people. and I still go out to all the Ravens practices. I mean, we broadcast from out at the Ravens during two days and stuff,

so I'm out there every practice. So it's fun. Do you remember the year that you were doing the show during this season? I may remember this not completely accurately, but you started to take calls on Mondays after games. That didn't last long, did it? Well, if we won it was good. If we lost, it wasn't good.

When we started out six and two, I was a genius. Then I think we went two and six, and I was an idiot. Yeah. The best part about doing the radio, though, the thing that I enjoyed most was I got to work with George Michael. And that was George and I, George did my first show I didn't on 980 from Redskin Park. And it was phenomenal. And George became a good friend at that time. God, I don't remember George doing it with you.

I remember, actually, you know what? I do remember maybe early on. I remember Frank Hanrahan did it with you there for a little while, and I forget who else, maybe Scott Jackson, somebody else. But anyway, Vinnie Serrato is on the podcast with us. I wanted to get to the draft. What did you make of the Redskins draft? I really liked Askins, and, you know, I think from all reports,

was running the first round. I think Dan did a good job. I think the evaluations he had on Haskins, I like, because when I watched Haskins, I thought he could make all the throws. I thought he was a big, strong quarterback. He had decent feet in the pocket. I mean, he's not a runner, of course. But I thought it was a good pick for them, and it may take him some time because he's only played one year. So it'll be interesting to watch his development. You just said that, you know, from the reports, and I believe the report, that Dan was running the first round. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Well, it turned out to be a good thing. Well, we don't know yet if it turned out to be a good thing, right? I mean... So far, so far so good, yes. Well, let me just say this. Part of the job of whoever there, if it doesn't go good, part of their job is, is the owner's always right, so you've got to take the hit.

So if it was, if Haskins doesn't turn out well and sweat doesn't turn out well, it's not Dan's fault. It's whoever's fault. Whoever's fault. Let me ask you this while we're on. That's just part of the job duties. What on Haskins, do you think he wanted to trade up to get him? I'll bet you they made some calls when they got to about 10. But I mean, you do your, you do your homework and you're worried maybe about a couple of teams that may have interest in Haskins or maybe somebody trading up.

So if you've done, and I'm sure they did their homework and intel on who may take a quarterback, and if he got to a certain point, they may be okay. But I'll bet you they made some calls about trying to move up. Just knowing Dan, Dan can't sit still and wait, I wouldn't think. Well, you know, that actually leads me to this because you were there for a lot of this. And as you know, we've had a lot of conversations about you and Dan over the years, and we've been critical about a lot of the things that happened during that decade. And I was wondering what it was like when his influence and decisions were in conflict with maybe yours or the scouts or the coaches.

You were there for a lot of those moments. What was it like when he said, nope, we're doing it my way? A lot of times it just, we would just have to convince him. him otherwise, you know, a lot of the times. And he was, he would listen. And then if we had a good enough, you know, evaluation and good reasoning, then he was cool with it. You know, I mean, he was good at listening at those things, and especially when Joe Gibbs

was there. Was Gibbs the one person more than any that could really reason with him or not? Yeah, more so than that. Spurrier or Norve or Zorn. Yeah, I mean, he had utmost, utmost respect for Joe Gibbs. And Joe, Joe was awesome to work with and work for because he included everybody, you know, and it was never, and I can say this, of all the draft picks and everything we made, it was always inclusive of what we were doing.

I remember one time when we took Derek Dockery. And we were sitting in the third round, and we had Derek rated like as a late first round pick. And he was sitting there on the board, and Dan said, well, if you guys, all this work that you guys do. And if you believe in your board, you got to take Dockery, which was the right thing. You know what I mean?

So it was, it was fun to be with. I mean, because there was another time that we were wanting to, I don't know, trade up or trade, I think trade back. And he says, check the phones. I don't think they're working. We checked the phones, and then we had somebody call on their cell phone to make sure to work. And said, yeah, they're working, but nobody's called. We're not getting any action, you know.

So, Dan was cool. He was fun to, he was fun. I mean, I haven't talked to him for a while, but he was a good family friend. But, oh, you really, so you don't stay in touch with him anymore? I haven't talked to him for a while. I haven't talked to him. He called me one time and we talked about his dad. So back to Haskins for a moment, though, Vinnie,

because you have a gut feel on how this thing played out, and I think you're right, and I think most of the reporting is right. And is it healthy if the owner makes, it takes over the first round and makes a pick that's in conflict with the scouts, and the people who he had empowered to make those decisions? I would think then that if that's the case, I mean, if the scouts wanted somebody else, you know, and Dan took the other, they didn't do a very good job of portraying their case

to get somebody else, would be my opinion, you know. But let me just say this. I don't, I thought Haskins was, if, I mean, if you like the small quarterback, then you like Kyler Murray. But of all the other quarterback, I thought Haskins was by far the best. What do you like about him? I just liked the guy won games, and he played big in big moments. He had his best games, you know, against the Michigan, and he was super productive,

and he can throw the football. I just liked a lot of things about him. Plus he's local, which plays big. Yeah, I mean, it could, right. Do you think he'll play this year? It all depends on how they're doing, how he does, how he develops. I mean, say he's not ready at the beginning of the year, and they're struggling towards the end of the year, then I could see him getting some time.

Do you think he'll start the opener? You made the statement that, you know, sometimes it's hard for, for Dan to sit still, and we know that he's excited about this particular player. Do you think there will be internal pressure from him to get Haskins out there sooner rather than later? I would say this. I mean, like when we drafted Sean Taylor, you know, and that was at number five, Greg Williams didn't want to start him. And I remember we went to the preseason game in Canton. Right. And Sean intercepted, ran it back for a touchdown, or maybe had two picks in that game, and we won the game.

You know, and then Dan says, you think Greg will start him now? I said, I would hope so. And no, he didn't. You know, he said he's got to earn it. So Dan never influenced that one. So I think Dan will – Dan wants him to succeed. So I think Dan will just sit back and kind of let it happen when the kid's ready. What kind of team do you think the Redskins are going to have this year?

To be totally honest, I don't really know. If you ask me about the Ravens, I could tell you very detailed, but I don't really follow them that much, so I don't really know. I actually do want to ask you about the Ravens a little bit in a little bit. You know, I think things, Vinnie, over the last year or two years, last year in particular, I think are different than they've ever been. in that you had major ticket selling issues with the franchise. You had local television ratings that hit the lowest numbers that they've ever hit before. And there's a passion for this team, as you know, and there always has been, but there's been an erosion of the fan base.

I don't think there's any doubt about that. There are multiple ways to measure it, and it's happened. And I felt at the end of the season, when they lost to Philadelphia, in a stadium that was packed with Eagles fans, that it was, that there was going to be more Dan influence in this offseason than there had been because he's got to get people interested again. Do you think that that was in his mind going into this off season? I would think the fan base is always in his mind, you know, so I'm sure that there was plenty of meetings about how they get people back.

I mean, the Ravens kind of had the same situation a couple years ago, you know, with the kneeling and all that stuff. And I remember Steve Boshadhi had his talk when he had his talk. You know, he said that he thinks winning would help. And I'll tell you what help was winning help, but Lamar Jackson helped a ton. That kind of changed the whole impact of the organization. and of the fan base. The fans got excited about Amar, and it totally changed.

I mean, you could tell on the radio and the way that the fans reacted was totally different. And maybe Haskins can do that for them. Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt that they needed jolt. You know, in a quarterback, a first-round quarterback, if he turns out to be the real deal, will be the jolt. And you know what, Vinny, it might be, given that we all agree that this was Dan, you know, inserting himself into the first round, perhaps, against the football people's better instincts. It could be his finest moment as an owner if Haskins turns out to be a star.

I would say his finest moment was when he hired Joe Gibbs. I would say that was the finest moment. And, you know, if Haskins turns out to be, you know, the guy, that would be the second best moment. I would think of Dan's test. But, no, if Haskins turns out to be a good quarterback, that would be so good. Because, I mean, Dan's been looking. I mean, he thought he had it with RG3, you know, and then that kind of blew up. I mean, it was great for a year.

And then it kind of blew up. He figured that that was going to be a 10-year deal. And, you know, if Haskins can be the guy that comes in here and gets them winning and consistently winning and keeps stacking wins, I think that would be. Dan would be extremely happy, and I think then, you know, the fan base would start to come back. Who had a good draft this year in your view? And what did you make of the Giants taking Daniel Jones at 6? Yeah, it seemed like a little high, but if you have a conviction about a guy,

you think he's a franchise guy. It doesn't matter what anybody else thinks. And we'll find out if Gettelman was right or if Gettelman was right, or if Gettleman was wrong. That's what we're going to find out. And if he was wrong, they'll probably all get fired. And if he's right, you know, then he's going to be a hero that he can tell everybody I told you so. Was there, you know, back back to the skins and some of the stuff that you were involved in off of what you just said about Daniel Jones. Was there a player acquisition decision that you

made that you are most proud of when you were here and one that you regret the most? Probably regret Adam Archiletta. Because he never, you know, because Ryan Clark, we had Ryan, and we let Ryan go, and it would have been cheap, and we went and got Adam Archiletto, which was, you know, he didn't fit. And the best ones, I think the year that we signed Cornelius, and Marcus and all those, you know, I think that was Joe's first year when we let Champ go, and then we signed all those guys because they were team guys, good guys,

and they were the foundation of, you know, a good team. And if Joe would have stayed, he would have taken the, I think we would have went to the playoffs that first year, you know, that Zorn screwed up, or I mean that Zorn was the coach. When did you know that Zorn, that you guys had made a mistake with Zorn? How quickly did you figure that out? Because you did, that 2008 season did start off six and two. Yeah, when he got into it with Clinton Fortes in Detroit,

then that was kind of the beginning of the end. But it went on, but it went on another year? Yep, yep, it did. It did. On the Zorn thing, how did it happen, Vinnie? We've always heard so many stories. What's the real story? How did Jim Zorn go from being hired as the offensive coordinator

to the head coach in just a few days? Why are you hesitating? Because I'm thinking. I guess it was about that there wasn't the, there wasn't a lot of candidates that we liked left, you know, They all had some type of issues. Mora went to Seattle or whatever, and then we waited until after the Super Bowl to talk to Spagnula. Yeah, Spagg.

That wasn't going to work. What about Fossil? That wasn't going to work that time. And so really it just came down to there was nobody out there to hire or nobody that wanted the job? Oh, those people that wanted the job. It just seemed like at that time that Zorn was a capable choice. And like you said, he started out six and two. I mean, he started out great.

One at Seattle did something. But then I think his ego got out of control. Yeah, it was that, look, the 2008 season, you know, it started off well. and then you had the Steeler game and the Cowboy games at home in primetime, and that was, that got rough after there. And obviously the way the 2009 season ended. And the Shirm Lewis thing, that was, I mean, where did that come from in the moment to bring in sort of a consultant for him?

Because I remember him telling us, because I was doing his show at the time on 980, I know he wasn't very happy about it. well, he was struggling. The offense was struggling, and he was in charge of the offense. So he needed help offensively. Shirm was out there, been a coordinator, and had experience in the offense, so it would be a much easier transition. Vinnie, what more than anything else haven't the Redskins done during Dan's era

that would have, I mean, what are the reasons that we haven't won more than anything else? You've been away from this organization now for almost a decade, believe it or not, time flies. What's held this organization back more than anything else? I would say, after being around the Ravens, continuity. I mean, Jay Gruden's going on his, you know, we're now in year five of Jay Gruden, right? Fourteen, 15, 16. Year six of Jay Gruden. That's continuity. Well, Harbs has been year 11. Yeah.

I don't know what to tell you. I mean, no, I think that's a good answer, and I think it's something that, you know, for a while everybody said, we need continuity. You've got to stick with it. You've got to be patient. And actually, I think, you know, as an observer of this over the last decade, Dan has been patient.

You know, Jay Gruden's lasted longer than any head coach. he's had. Bruce Allen, and you know what the fan base's reaction to Bruce Allen's been here over the last six months, and even going back further than that, and he is stuck with Bruce. What do you know about that relationship, and why do you think Bruce Allen continues to be the team president? Got me. I don't know. No idea. I thought, you know, Scotty McClellan did a good job. I don't know what happened with that, but he's a good personnel guy. and they seemed like they were making some good choices, but I don't know why Bruce is still there.

The Ravens, real quickly. I was listening to Harbaugh the other day. He was on ESPN, and he said, we're committed to this offensively. Do you think this will work to have and to really advocate and plan around a dual threat quarterback? It'll work if. if Lamar can be a consistent passer from the pocket.

He completed 58%. If he can get it up, 60, 62%, and hit the layups, hit the easy throws, hit the ones he's got to make short throws. And especially with Marquise Brown, there's going to be a lot of bubble screen, screen passes, that he's got to hit, which will help is accuracy. And then the other thing is the young receivers got to play well, which the Ravens don't have a history of.

And then the offensive line has got to step up a little bit, especially the left guard in the center. And if that's the case, I mean, they've got a chance. Two things for the Ravens, pass rush and the consistency of Lamar Jackson at quarterback. I thought they were a fascinating team to watch last year. First of all, I thought we were watching one of the better, defenses we had seen in the NFL for a few years. I thought Vinny, their 2017 defense was off the charts. And if they had beaten the Bengals in that final game, you know, where Eifford caught that fourth and, you know, 18 touchdown pass at the end, I thought they were going to be held to deal

with in that particular postseason. But defensively, they were so good. And I'm just curious, just to go back to that charger game, I really in the moment watching that game, I couldn't believe that they didn't, that Harbaugh didn't turn to Flacco there when they were down, whatever it was, 12-0-0-0-1-1. And Harbaugh ended up being proven right because Lamar Jackson, you know, gave him a chance, got him back into that game. But what did you think? And what do you think about Joe moving forward in Denver? I think with Joe, Joe's got to have a good offensive line. He's got to have a tight end that he can trust. He's got to have a Pro Bowl running back. But the thing about Joe is, I mean, Joe was awesome last year at the beginning of the year.

I mean, he was healthy and he started out good. But the thing with Joe is, eventually he comes back to an 84.3 quarterback rating. And that's what he's been for his career. So eventually he's going to get back to there because what happens with Joe is when you start to pressure him, he loses all his fundamentals, then he quit's reading defenses, he picks out receivers, and then he starts throwing more interceptions, and he throws off his back foot, and things go bad for Joe. Yeah, I mean, we've seen all of that. At the same time, I guess one of the reasons I've always been a fan is that in the biggest games they've had over the years, he's always played his best, and probably above his, you know, normal level. But in all of the big games that they've had,

I think he right now owns more road playoff win victories than any quarterback in NFL history. Even going back to the end of 2016 when they had that game in Pittsburgh on Christmas night, he played great, and then they gave up an 85-yard drive at the end. And you mentioned it, the tight end they drafted one in Noah Fant, and he's got a Pro Bowl running back in Lindsay, and they've got a really good defense. I actually think Denver's got a chance to make a big jump this year. I think they've got a chance. They've got a tough division.

Right, very tough. You know, Kansas City got the quarterback, San Diego, or San Diego, the Chargers are good, and you would think that the Raiders will be better. Yeah. Yeah, it's always interesting when we approach the NFL season to think about the teams that didn't, you know, make the postseason the year before because we know five, six, seven of them that weren't in the playoffs last year are going to end up being in the postseason in 2019. It's just the way it works.

All right. Now, you know, Kevin, one other thing. When I went to the Notre Dame Michigan game, and you know what? They told me when I was there that I didn't realize that Dan's daughter goes to Notre Dame. So I must have rubbed off on Dan a little bit. Do you miss it? Do I miss what?

Do you miss competing? Do you miss being in football? You know what? Well, I go to practices a lot. The thing that I miss is I miss after a win, being in the locker room and then being up there, you know, sitting there with Dan and Joe or whoever, you know, talking about the game. That's what I do miss. And, you know, I mean, Dan and I had a lot of good times, you know, in Aspen and a lot of different places and a lot of different things. And, you know, his mom and Panya and everybody.

So, yeah, I do miss some of that. So, you know, what was the most memorable moment? You know, I always point to, you know, Carlos Rogers, if he hangs on to that pick six in Seattle, we've got a 10-0 lead and we're headed to the NFC championship game. That was, you know, over the Snyder era, that's about as close as the franchise has gotten to real success. You know, that team, that 2005 Joe team, you know, and the Griffin team in 2012 certainly had a chance before he got to. injured in the Seattle game. But that 2005 team was a tough, hard-nosed football team at the end of that year. And that was fun. How about when we missed the field go down in Tampa? Well, that was the first.

We would have gone to St. Louis. Yeah, that was the first year. Yeah, that was 99. And, you know, B. Mitch had the kickoff return in Tampa and it was a 13-0 lead. And yeah, that was close too. but I'm talking about really, you know, once, yeah, I mean, that was a team with Brad Johnson, you know, off that trade that really, you know, was set up to win. 2000 is a fascinating year. You were there for it, but in some ways you look back and free agency and what you guys did in free agency may have doomed a good team. Well, we started out good. We would have been good the next year. If I remember, right, if we'd have had a kicker, we'd have won. you know, we'd have beat Arizona, we'd have beat some other teams. The Giants. I can't remember.

Yeah, yeah, that's right. And then Marty came in, and I still think, Vinny, that Marty had this thing heading in the right direction. Do you ever feel that way or not? I didn't really pay attention. You weren't there for that year, I know. Look, I really appreciate you doing this, and it's good to catch up. And I have listened driving through Baltimore. I've listened to 1057 and listen to your show.

You're great on radio. You've got a lot of personality. It really works with Bob. And I appreciate you doing this, and it's good to catch up. Take care. All righty, thanks, Kevin. Vinnie Serato, everybody. Hadn't talked to Vinny in a long, long time doing a radio show up in Baltimore.

And he's actually good. He's good on radio. He's always had, and I've mentioned this, as much as we've been critical of that era. One of the things I've always said, Vinny was a good guy. I mean, you know, spent time with us when we were doing radio shows live, at the park or whatever. And he's got personality. And he's a likable person.

It was just a rough 10 years. For him, I guess 9, he went there, obviously during the Marty season. We'll get to John Kime in a moment. We'll preview Minicamp weekend here in a moment. Quick word about launch workplaces in Bethesda. Launch Workplaces has a brand new facility in Bethesda. It's a beautiful new space,

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If you live in that area and you've been looking to get out of the home or get out of the office that you're in, give Launch Workplaces in Bethesda a shot. 240, 86714 or Launchworkplaces.com. All right, let's bring in John Kime, who of course covers the Redskins for ESPN, and the Redskins have a mini-camp, a rookie minicamp this weekend. The first chance to see Dwayne Haskins. The media will have that opportunity on Saturday, I guess, and for the coaches to work with him on a football field.

And John, and I've said this this week, our first chance to listen to Jay Gruden talk about Dwayne Haskins after he sees him on a football field trying to adapt and learn his system. What do you think we'll learn, if anything, from this weekend? Well, I think the big thing that they want to learn, which I think that will be relayed to us is the processing of information by Haskins and how, because there's going to be an emphasis on classroom work. So how does he take that to the field?

How does he retain the information? The other stuff, you're not going to clean up, you know, they know that he has some mechanical things that they want to clean up, you know, whether it's the Jay had talked the other day about his footwork, and I've heard that a number of times from other people want to clean up the footwork. Well, you're not going to see that in one weekend. So it's really going to be for them is the processing of information. I think from a media standpoint, you're going to see that you'll, you'll,

we'll be able to see the talent. And, you know, you can tell, like if he's hesitating at all, you'll be able to see that, but you're going to see more of the talent. For them, it's going to be more of the processing aspect. Right now, your gut feel as to whether or not the coaching staff is thinking about Dwayne Haskins as a week one starter. Oh, I don't think they are. And, you know, I think, I just, the word I keep hearing over and over, Kevin,

as patient. They want to be patient with him and let him develop. So I don't think that that means week one starter. I think that means, you know, let the kid go at the pace he needs to go at and don't rush him. And, you know, in fairness to Haskins, we haven't seen him on a football field in the NFL. So if he goes out there and tears it up in training camp, well, then, sure, you change your mind. But I would say right now, I think they would look at it and say that early on, especially when we look at that schedule, that Case Keenum with a run game and a good defense, or what they hope is a much better defense, it would be this formula for success for them. How optimistic is Jay Gruden about Case Keenum?

Well, I know, obviously he likes him. And, you know, when it's funny, because every time you say that, people take this big leap to think that going from a guy likes somebody to thinking that this coach feels like he's an all-star. That's not the case. This is a guy that I was told that last year they would have had interest in. The price tag was just too high for who Keenham was and what he could do. So that's where they turned to Alex Smith.

And then when it came time to this offseason, I had heard that this is the guy that Jay wanted. So I think that there is a level of confidence in him to be able to operate what he needs. And I think he likes the competitive. of that. A lot of the same things he likes about Colt, but the competitive aspect being one of them, and he has more starting experience than Colts. So I think that is appealing to them as well. So I do think he likes him. I don't know that, you know, I'm not going to sit here and say that he thinks he's like this coming All-Star, but, you know, clearly I think he likes him enough. And, you know, you know this too. Jay has, Jay likes guys with that little bit of swagger.

And I think that's one thing he's always liked about Colts. And Kay certainly plays. with some of that as well. We saw that when the Vikings played here a couple of years ago with cases of the quarterback. Yeah, and I wonder why, I wonder how that will manifest itself here over the summer if there is a legitimate quarterback competition. Jay, Jay had a voice in Case Keenham. He did not necessarily have a voice in Alex Smith. So he did have, I think he did have a voice there because I know that they had had meeting, I know like when the trade was executed, he was not part of that

deal-making process, but they had had meetings leading up to that point going over the quarterback. So whether or not he was the first or, you know, I know that there were other consideration, so, but I know that it wasn't like he was blindsided that they went out and traded for

a guy like Alex Smith because that was always part of it. And I talked to a few people about that, that that was always part of the discussion leading into that. Now, whether or not he knew the train was happening that night, I don't think. Is it fair to say, though, that he had more influence over Case Keenham? Yeah, I think so, because I think, you know, this year, the pool was probably not as deep, maybe, or the choices maybe weren't as great.

Like last year, now last year, they could have gone Colt and a rookie, and I know that was a consideration. They could have gone the Teddy Bridgewater route. I know that was something that some people there were thinking about. So I think there were a few more options, whereas this year, like, you knew they were going to try and draft somebody, but they couldn't spend a lot. So you really were more limited as to, if you're only going to be able to spend this much, what guy in this price range would make sense? So I think the options were probably fewer in that regard. I guess that, you know, one of the things I'm intrigued by is if the owner's first round pick ultimately will play out,

where he wants him on the field faster than the coaching staff does and how that will sort of manifest itself during training camp and to watch that. I just had Vinnie Serato on the show, and Vinny thinks that Dan, you know, it was definitely, he certainly felt like he made the pick and was involved in handling the first round pick,

but we'll step aside and let the football people, the coaches, make the decision on whether, on when he's ready versus not ready. I would hope so too because otherwise, listen, we've seen first-round quarterbacks get ruined before because they weren't ready to play, or they get put into a bad situation. And, you know, when you look at those first, four of those first five games are against Philly, Dallas, Chicago, and the Patriots,

I just want to be able to set a guy up for at least a monocum of success, And I think that would put an awfully big challenge for a rookie quarterback. And I think they're going to try and communicate that to the owner, I'm sure. But, you know, you would hope that this is a football decision when it comes to when he plays. And I also made the point earlier in the show, John, that the learning experience from RG3 has to be real, meaning the owner has to stay out of this relationship and stay out of being in the middle of coach and player relationship. We cannot have an RG3 situation where he feels like he can go to the owner over the coach

at any time. That will set up Haskins to fail. Hopefully they've learned from that. Yeah, and listen, you would hope so. I mean, and I'll say this, Gripper wasn't the first guy who had that level. Nope, Haynesworth had it. Well, I think you can go way back to, like, Bruce and those guys way back in the early days, too. So it's been something that's been there.

So yes, I mean, I think, listen, I think the owner, it's okay for him to have a relationship with the quarterback. This is his team. So it's okay, but you can't let somebody exert a certain level of influence. I think that's where you start to, where you start to shudder a little bit. So yes, I would agree with you. You would hope that that's not the case. All right, let's talk about other people. Sweat McLaurin didn't sign yet.

But this is, I was thinking about this actually, that remember back before the rookie wage scale, you know, the drama around getting that first round pick signed. And, you know, it's just not an issue anymore. So I would expect Sweat and McLaurin here to sign quickly. But I know that the football people were excited about Montez Sweat. In my general feeling on this, and I've talked to Cooley about it off the air and others about it off the air, Cooley will be on with us next week, by the way, on Tuesday, for those that are wondering and have asked. You know on a Montez sweat pretty quickly whether or not you got the guy you thought, because he'll start in training camp dominating the people that are trying to block him,

whereas it's longer to figure it out with a wide receiver, right? Oh, I definitely agree with that. And, you know, because the great thing, my favorite drill in training camp is the one on one with the D-line or the pass rush versus the offensive line. And there are a lot of things that you're going to see the one-on-one skill in the athleticism. And you can see guys, whether they're offensive linemen or the pass rushers, you get a really good glimpse very early as to what they can do because you could see, like

Brandon Sheriff as a tackle, had some issues on the edge. He's a great guard. But on the edge, there were some issues, and you could see some of that. And, you know, you see Trent Williams' dominance. when a guy beats him, you take note. You know, a rackpo used to give him some problems, and, you know, Junior Galette gave him some issues. But because of that speed, so, yeah,

I definitely think that we'll get a good feel for Montez earlier in camp. And the thing with receivers, too, what you can see guys making certain moves, but you don't know how those moves play out under a pass rush, you know? So how quickly you're going to get open when there's an 11-11 versus in a 7-on-7. situation. You'll see the ability to make one-on-one moves, but we've seen receivers who have

either looked good before or who just are kind of okay, and then when the season comes, there are things kind of going in an opposite direction, good or bad. And so I think with McCorn, what I would look for too is just it's more, are you creating separation and how? And I think that's a big thing. Like you could see early on with James and Crowder the basketball style moves that he would use to create separation. Same with a Jordan Reed. Jordan Reed, too, yeah. Yeah, so you definitely saw that.

But then other guys, like some other guys, like the strength of their game, might be catching contested passes. And so how much are you going to always see that? You know, and so I think you get, I think you're right. I think you get a stronger glimpse or a taste of what Montez Sweat would be able to do. What do we know about Bryce Love's availability in terms of coming off that injury and when he'll be full strength? what they were saying, what I've been told him, what they were saying after the draft, too,

is that they're not sure about training camp. So there's a chance that he would open up on the physically unable to perform list, and that would give them almost half a year to make a decision on whether or not they want to activate him or keep him on IR for the rest of the season. So I think the hard part for him is that that ACL tear was, I think it was in November, was his last regular season game. It was late in the season. Yeah, so I think, listen, this kid could factor big time into their future,

and if everything is going well for them, they won't necessarily need him. Like if Thompson is available and, you know, if he's durable, if Thompson's there, then he's probably having a good season because he's good. You know, Geis stays durable. And if Peterson, and he wouldn't necessarily replace a Peterson because they're different styles, but if that three-headed rushing attack plays out well, then they can give Love almost a red shirt year, and he's a guy who I think is as much for the future as anybody.

Yeah, I mean, personally, I don't think that there are two players I'm more excited about than sweat and eventually Love and maybe right, it might be 20-20. I think Love is a guy that I'm absolutely excited about as well, just from just to watch and play, because his 2017 film was great. And last year when I saw him, like there were more, issues in the backfield because of the blocking up front.

So, you know, it was, you know, I'm not going to go by his 2018 numbers. I'm going by the film. And that film is 17, man, he's got some wriggle, and he makes guys miss. After the first couple of guys, who do you have a sense from talking to coaches, scouts, et cetera, that they're most excited about among the draft choices? I would say a guy like Jimmy Morland, the seventh round pick, the corner, his ability to play inside or outside. but I think what they love, love, love about him is his competitiveness.

And as one person told me, he's got to get, I don't give a bleep attitude. And so, like, he doesn't care where he's from, his size or who you are. He's going to compete. And, you know, you see the ball skills because he's out of the pick. I know he's playing at James Madison, so there's a different level of player you're facing. But it was more, I think, if there are good, there are positive traits with him, but also it's the mentality that they love. Now, that doesn't mean he's going to be some star.

It just means that as a seventh round pick who I would think right now would probably make the roster. And then maybe he can help him on teams or something like that. But he's a guy that they are excited about. I think, you know, two others, I think Harmon, the receiver, because he's very physical. I think, you know, there's, listen, there's a reason the guy drops to the sixth round. He's not a blazer. There's some question about, you know, he's sometimes off the ball getting into his body a little bit more. but he is a physical guy, and I think they would tell you that he's probably the best blocking receiver in the draft.

And so there is a way that he can help them. And maybe, and I don't know if this is a good comparison or not, but maybe view him as a kind of as an Ankhron Bolden type of poor man's Ankhorn Bolden later his career. Physical does all that kind of stuff. And so I think then the other guy is that Cole Holcomb, the linebacker, he tested well at his pro day and he was productive so I'm not sure like he wasn't at the combine and I mean he ran well and he you know he I think he had like a 39 inch vertical so there's good measurables and he wasn't invited to the combine which I don't know why but he's a guy

that I think like down the road you could see him they would hope he could develop into a coverage type linebacker because of that speed and I think that's you know when that happens who knows. I mean, we say all this stuff, and, like, people have to remember that these are lower round things. Exactly. It's, you know, it's more just like, you see some traits in ways that they can fit in more than anything. And, like, it doesn't mean they're going to do all that stuff this year. It just means these are traits that it can develop. You know, so that's a really good point because there's so much, so much maybe in exaggeration. There is some, you know, optimism off of this draft and not just, you know, the first round of Haskins and Sweat.

And I think any time you, you end up making two first round picks, your fan base is going to be a little bit more enthused about the draft because you get two first. Especially when one that's a quarterback. Yeah, especially when one is a quarterback. But, you know, when you look at drafts, you know, until very recently, like last year, we saw Trey Quinn, Greg Stroman, and Sean Dionne Hamilton all play. You know, they were sixth and seventh round picks. And in fact, I think, you know, there's some hope that Sean Dionne Hamilton can be a player and that Trey Quinn can be a player. You know, the year before you got, Tim Settle. And, well, Tim Settle also. The year before, you actually got your starting center in the sixth

round in Chase Rueh. But, you know, more times than not over the years, when you get in, at least with this franchise, not every franchise, you get into these mid and late rounds, you can get excited about guys, but more likely than not, they're not, you know, they may not even make the team. I remember who was the Baylor running back that they drafted in like the fifth round? Who was it? Seastrunk? Oh, Seastrunk. Remember how excited everybody was about C-strunk and, you know, you had this speed and he had played, you know, at Baylor and with Griffin.

And, I mean, did he ever, did he ever have one right? regular season carry. I don't think so, right? Remember, like, Marco Mitchell, the Oh, yeah, of course. So there's always guys like that, and that's why, you know, it's funny because I remember, Kevin, in 2011, they had all those, they had 11 picks. And I remember some fans, a couple fans told me,

like, they're going to get eight starters out of this trip. Oh, yeah. There's no leaping way that that will ever happen because, you know, when you talk to GMs and, like, what they hope for in a draft like that is, like, two to three starters and two to three key reserves who contribute

to winning. So you can start a guy. It doesn't mean he's a good starter. It doesn't mean your draft class was good. They have to contribute to winning. And I think like in this draft, you can look and say, there are multiple guys that I could see down the road contributes to a winning team. Now, if Haskin pans out, he'll clearly be that guy. And Montes Sweat can be that guy. I think Bryce Love, if down the road, he is more of a Chris Thompson type, could be a guy like that. And then the other ones, you have to hope that someone else comes through. But there's, you know, it's, it's not. not easy. And so yeah, you sometimes have to, like, you have to remember that this is a difficult process and that if you get X number to do this stuff, then you've had a really good draft, and you just need to keep piling those drafts together. You know, that 2011 draft, and I just pulled up that draft because I remember... They didn't have to be not very good. They had to turn that. Well, first of all, the decision to trade back and pass on JJ Watt turned out to be a big whiff. They got Ryan Carrigan, but they missed on an opportunity to draft JJ Watt.

And I guess the flip sides of the least there wasn't a Christian Ponder or Blaine Gabbard. That's true. But yeah, yeah, they did this. But really, you know, other than Carrigan, Aldrich Robinson, may, well, did Niles, where was Niles Paul last year? Was it Tennessee or Jacksonville? Jacksonville. Jacksonville. And he got hurt. So I would consider Niles a good draft pick because he, you know, you know, he was.

know, I think he's a guy that, I mean, he did, he helped them in the roles he was in for a fifth round pick. I thought he was a solid guy. And so, you know, I don't have, but like the rest of them, Hulu, Jenkins, I mean, all these guys, like, it's just, it ended up to be. Aldrich Robinson's actually put together a decent career, not a great career, but, you know, he's been, you know, he continues to get picked up. You know, I obviously Kyle liked him, and then, you know, Kirk in Minnesota, you know, gave him a shot last year. But yeah, that draft was not a good draft at all. Right. And that's why it's like you have to always, you just have to let it play out.

And I will say, like, I like the players they picked. I think they have traits that you can see why they were chosen and why they could be good. And now it's up to, listen, it's up to the coaches to use them right and to develop them. And it's up to the kids to work. I mean, the one thing I like about some of these kids is more so, you know, McLaurin, I know the kid's going to, you know the kid's going to work. You know, he's going to provide a certain culture. So, like, you don't worry about the work ethic with some of these guys

because that's what they've shown to get to this point. That's a good quality you have. But, again, it's like not, you know, you have, again, you have to be used right. You can't rush the quarterback, for example. You know, you don't want to put love in there too soon because other guys are, getting hurt if that's what's happening. You know what I mean? So there's X factors that go into this that, you know, can make or break a guy's career, injuries included, but I do like on paper on May, what's today, May 9th, is that today or 10th? 10th. On May 10th, I like what they did in the draft.

Let's see how it goes on August 10th and then during the season. Yeah, and in 2022, really. Right. It's right. So, you know, and like, yeah. You know, it's funny. As you were speaking, I was also simultaneously looking at some of those drafts, the Shanahan-year drafts. And I'm like, man, they're not very good. But, you know, a lot of these players are actually, and I didn't realize this, like Jarvis Jenkins is still in the league. He played for the Chiefs last year. Yeah. Josh La Rebus is still in the league.

Started a few games in New Orleans last year. I don't remember that. He got hurt, but he started some games in New Orleans. last year. But yeah, I mean, I thought Jarvis Jenkins was long out of the league. I didn't realize that he was still. Yeah, no, I remember him getting signed last year. And, you know, it's funny because he was a guy that early in that camp, his first year,

before he tore his ACL, looked pretty good. Yeah. And now you could see that there were things that he had to clean up. You know, he tended to get a little bit too upright at times and all that. But you could see the athleticism that. is why he was chosen in the second round, but you didn't see that after that injury. Yeah. Back to this team and now. Give me two quick answers on the health of Geis and the health of Quentin Dunbar. Well, with Dunbar, I'd heard a couple months ago that he was progressing

fine and that what he needed most was rest. So I think I don't know how much he's going to be doing this spring, but it sounded like he was going to be doing. be fine. But again, we heard that a lot last year, and then he'd go out there and play and he would hurt it. But I'd heard that the primary thing he needed was rest, and so he's been given a chance to get that. I don't know what his workload will be this spring. As far as Geis, I know people over there have been excited about him. And I talked to him the other day who was very excited about him. And so, you know, I think the key will be how he is when he gets to training camp. it seems like he's progressing well, and Jay Gruden said after the draft that he felt like he was probably a little bit of ahead of schedule.

So, you know, we'll see. I think the key for Geis is much the durability that he has when he comes back, because there have been a couple of these things. And, you know, if he stays healthy, he gives the Redskins a home run guy, whether he's, you know, in the past game or in the, especially in the run game. Tell me real quickly, too. Colt McCoy, where is he, and also, any update on Monta Nicholson? Monta has his court date next week, and so I think we'll learn some more, like, what happens there. I know they're still waiting to get all that stuff sorted out, and then hear from the league.

And then Colt, Jay Gruden said earlier this week that he's hopefully, that he'll hopefully be ready for training camp, which is not what I expected to hear. I thought he'd say, well, yeah, for minicamp in June, but we're only talking a couple weeks away for that. So, you know, clearly they're going to be a little bit cautious with him. He's a guy who, you know, he knows the offense already. So that helps him. But three procedures on that leg and the offseason is not the best look. Yeah, I'm wondering, you know, whether or not that will end up playing out maybe in a surprising way, meaning he's not on the roster when we get to, you know, the end of August, first part of September.

Yeah, I mean, I wonder that too. And I don't know that that'll be the case because we know, listen, again, I go back to the just because the guy, coach likes the guy, doesn't mean he thinks he's a pro bowler. It's just that there are qualities that they like and they like having Colts on the team because he's a professional. He does his job. He's always ready. Coaches can count on him.

They know what they're going to get. That's the luxury for a coach to have. So, but the key, Kevin, I think, will be is how does Haskins progress? Yeah, true. It's further ahead of schedule and you have he and case, then you might say, listen, I hate to do this, but, you know, look at the last couple years with all the injuries. Can you keep three quarterbacks? And I talked to Jay about this at the owner's meetings about how he doesn't like to have,

you know, no coach really wants a three-man quarterback competition because then you're, you know, you're dividing reps by three people. That's hard for a young kid to progress that way. So I don't know what's going to happen. I would think right now that they're not against having three quarterbacks on the roster, but I do think a big key will be how Haskins progresses. I think you made a really interesting comment there. You know, him liking Colt doesn't mean that, you know,

he thought Colt was a Pro Bowl type of quarterback. He just liked him personally. And I do believe that last year, when Alex got hurt, I think in some ways, if you injected truth serum into Jay Bruton in that moment. that he probably thought moving forward he had a better chance with Colt in that moment. Yeah, and I think I think I would tend to agree with that because of where he was at with the offense and what he felt like they could get from him. So, yeah, I don't agree with that.

I just, you know, the other thing to keep in mind for everybody who always talks about this, too, is that every time they've had a chance to give Colt the starting job, or if there's been a competition, he doesn't get it. That's right. So, you know, you have to like, again, just because of Coach likes the guy, there are qualities that they like. I coached, you've coached, I've coached kids that may have been the eighth guy on my team in basketball, but I love them because of the energy or something that they added, then like, I just love this about this guy.

Of course. It doesn't mean I'm going to start him. It just means I like this quality. Thanks. Enjoy the weekend out there, and I will talk to you soon. Always appreciate it. And by the way, listen to John. John's got a podcast too, and you can get it everywhere you can get a podcast.

Bram is producing it and is a part of it. So, you know, look for John's podcast. And, of course, you know, you can follow John on Twitter, and he'll tell you all about his podcast on Twitter at John underscore Kime. Thanks, man. As always. Thanks, Kevin. Thanks to John for jumping on the podcast.

And again, listen to his podcast as well. A quick reminder, if you haven't rated or reviewed the podcast, do so. If you haven't subscribed, that helps us as well. It doesn't cost you anything. But if you're on iTunes, if you rate and review us, that's really good for us. quick two things actually to finish up the show one congratulations to denny mccarthy he has not won the the byron nelson yet but denny's a local kid went to georgetown prep went to uvaa

um and he was your first round leader at the byron nelson shot eight under uh 63 in that first round i know denny's family well um actually had denny on the radio show i think once or twice uh but he's been you know he's been creating a professional uh on the tour career has made many cuts, has been in the money, he's finished top five a couple times, not in major events, but he's done well, and it would be great to see him contend this weekend. Tony Romo was two under through seven holes yesterday after eagling seven, and then went south after that and shot a five overpar round of 76. But I did watch some of his round.

So if you bet the under, the over under was seven. 77 and a half. Oh, it was? Yeah. Okay, so he was under. I would assume that that's going to be the number again today. He won't make the cut. He'd have to go really low today to make the cut.

But anyway, so we have the pentultimate episode of Game of Thrones on Sunday night, Aaron. Who are we going to lose on Sunday? Boy, on Sunday, who are we going to? See, that's tricky because the question is, who's going to die on Sunday, who's going to bleed over into the final episode? episode. Let's see here. I think we're going to lose, I think we're losing Yaron. I think we're getting the Klegain Bowl. I was going to say, are we going to get the hound in the mountain this Sunday night? The question is, is it this Sunday or is it like, is that the kickoff? Is that one of the big

things to start off the final episode? I think we get it towards the end of it. By the way, my prediction is if Yoron does die, it's Yara that ends up killing him somehow. Although, what? I mean, I'm not going to say they wrote her off, but, you know, they kind of pushed her to the side a little bit. It's definitely possible, but I could see Jamie killing him. I could see Jamie killing him, too. Those are the two favorites, Yara and Jamie. And then, you know, the mountain is the one that beheaded Mascendi. So maybe Greyworm gets the Mountain instead of the hound.

That is, there's, you can almost see a kind of a three-way dance happening. You know what? I think, I think Mountain might kill Grame. gray worm. I think gray worm dies. Well, we thought he might die two weeks ago after. I absolutely think he dies now. I think here's kind of my guess is you almost have a, you know, to use a wrestling term here, you have a kind of a gauntlet match where he goes through a number of people.

Mountain goes through a number of people. He goes through gray worm. He goes through, I don't know off the top of my head, but a few other maybe, nah, Brianne probably won't be there, but goes through a number of people. Then you have. Brian's not there. Brand's protecting Sansa. Unless she stayed behind.

Unless Sansa and her go down. But yeah. Eventually you're going to have mountain against hound, but I question if Aria is also going to be involved. You know what? I was just thinking the same thing. Given the relationship, this strange relationship between Aria and the hound, what if Aria saves the hound?

What if the hound is about to die in the Kliang Bowl? And Aria comes in and kills the mountain and saves the hound. By the way, remember, are you going to let me die again like you did last time? Maybe this time she saves him. I think you're going to have a situation where I could see the hound dying. I could see them basically having the same thing that you had with the Viper where they killed each other and Aria gets the final blowin. I think we could get a major shocker Sunday night. Cerey, Deneres.

Deneres dying would not shock them. Jamie potentially. potentially. I think that if Searcy dies, what are you doing in the final episode? Well, that's true. I don't think Searcy will die. I don't think, well, you could end up having DeNaris and the Starks, you know, the Stark girls

end up being the final episode. Right. But I think Searcy survives, but it wouldn't surprise me with Jamie coming back, leaving her that first go-round, it's going to be interesting to see what that reconnection is like if it happens. I still think that this is a misdirection.

Jamie is still against Searcy, and Jamie ends up killing Searcy, whether it's Sunday or the next episode. There you go. Well, you know, it's Sunday night should be great. The length of the episode on Sunday night is 80, 90 minutes, something like that. So we'll be here on Monday to recap it for those that are interested.

And for those that aren't interested, you don't have to listen to that portion of the show. You don't have to. hopefully if you weren't interested, you've turned us off already on today's show as we make predictions. But so final pre, just net it out. What's your, who dies Sunday night? A significant death Sunday night.

Yes or no. And if yes, who? Oh, absolutely yes. I think we're going to get. Have to have a significant death or two. I think it ends with the collegain bowl. So I have mountain. And I'm going to say hound.

I'm going to say gray worm. I'm going to say, oh, Khyburn survives a little episode. six, and one other on the good guy side. Oh, and yeah, Uron dies as well. Uron dies by the hand of either Yara or Jamie on Sunday night. I like that prediction. I can completely see that. I think the mountain gets it, and I mean, everybody's assuming a hound mountain showdown.

So I'm going to say that there is that showdown that either Aria or Greyworm finishes off the mountain in that particular episode. And then I think there's one other significant death, and I'm just going to guess somehow some way Jamie dies on Sunday night. It could be at the hands of Searcy, who's still pissed that he left her in the first place. It could be Tyrion. By the way, Verris could get it on Sunday night too.

I was debating about Veris. Veris just seems like a cockroach. He's never going to die. He's just going to survive through to make sure he always survives everything. If Jamie truly has flipped, Tyrion could flip on Jamie. I don't expect it. That would be a shocker. Yeah.

But, you know, we still, and it's amazing, still through the four episodes of this final season, nobody other than Jamie and Bran know what Jamie did to Bran in season one, except for, wait, except for Breyan. Yes. Breanne is the only other one I think that knows. What if Breanne, after Jamie left Breanne, tell you. Sonsa that Jamie was the one that pushed Bran out. Sonsa confirms it with Bran, and then Sonsa head south to kill Jamie with Aria. I don't know. But there's a whole lot left to go. And then we have the Aria, the Milsandra promised to Aria back in whatever season that was,

that she would shut down brown eyes, blue eyes, and green eyes. brown eyes was walter fray blue eyes was the night king and green eyes could be denaris who we had multiple shots in the last episode people pointed this out of her bright green eyes

your thoughts on that green eyes could be surcy too I was going to say green eyes I think it would more apply to Circe than than denaris well we had shots close up shots of green eyes especially when the scene at the

ended the show last week when she turned around and she was pissed off seeing the best friend get beheaded you got to think someone you know i do think we're heading towards someone is going to have to kill denaris because she goes out of control i'm still leaning towards i i guess someone doesn't have to kill her she could have a redeeming moment but we are going to have a dissent into madness here yeah i think there is going to be a dissent into madness and it's going to be calisi that's she's going mad we may have seen the beginning of that oh yeah absolutely All right, enjoy the weekend. We will be back on Monday.

We'll have a lot of NBA to talk about. We'll have Redskins mini camp to talk about. We'll have Game of Thrones to talk about.