The Kevin Sheehan Show - Von Miller

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

Kevin opened with the news last night that Von Miller is expected to sign with Washington. Then it was Kevin and Thom with lots of Redskins/Commanders past-present talk including more on Terry along with Art Monk jersey retirement email follow. They then discussed the Shaquille O'Neil-RG3 beef. Wizards "Summer League Excitement" finished up the show. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. And the answers have a third in ten. It comes correct for the touchdown. It was Vaughn Miller with the strip sack and Jackson with the recovery. That was Von Miller's first of two strip sacks of Cam Newton in Super Bowl 50.

That one resulted in a Denver touchdown and a 10-0-0 second quarter lead. The Broncos in Peyton Manning's final game won at all, and Miller was named MVP. Von Miller reportedly heading to Washington. So here's the deal on today's show. Tommy and I recorded the show last night, as in Wednesday night, because I'm away for a few days beginning today, Thursday. A few hours after recording the show, which you will hear beginning in the next segment, just as we recorded it with no Von Miller mentioned, the news broke that Miller was signing

with Washington. So I'm adding this opening segment to today's show, my reaction to the signing of Miller. So again, this opening segment is kind of standalone, and then you'll get the show that Tommy and I recorded last night. So let's get to the Von Miller news. which, by the way, he broke on Instagram. He Instagrammed out a message that included a photo of Champ Bailey in a redskin uniform. It may have been Von Miller edited into a Champ Bailey uniform.

It was a Redskin uniform, number 24. I don't know if it's because he wants to wear number 24 or he was a big Champ Bailey fan. But he included the message, quote, D.C., what's good? Closed quote. A few moments later, the Schefters, the Pelisaros of the world, they had the news that Miller will reportedly sign a deal with Washington. No terms of the deal yet. Rest assured, it's very likely a one-year deal for how much, probably not that much, but with incentives. By the time you're listening to this, maybe the terms of the deal have been reported and maybe it's actually official because as of the recording of this opening segment, it's a lot of the just reported that he's going to sign with Washington. But he reported it. So it's a pretty good source. Von Miller is 36 years old.

He's played 13 years. He is, I think, a sure-fire future Hall of Famer. Eight-time pro bowler, three-time first-team all-pro, five-time second-team all-pro, defensive rookie of the year in 2011, Super Bowl 50 MVP when Denver beat Carolina. He played nine years in Denver, and then, if you recall, got traded in the middle of the 2021 season to the Rams where he won his second Super Bowl. And remember this about those 2021 Rams before the trade for Von Miller. They were a good team, but they were not thought of as a Super Bowl contender. They won five of their final six games that year.

He had five sacks in the Rams' final four regular season games that year. And then as a four-seed, the Rams ran the table and beat Cincinnati in the Super Bowl. Miller had four sacks in four playoff games, a forced fumble. He had two of those four sacks in the Super Bowl game itself. He was outstanding in that Super Bowl. Now, that was Von Miller at third. 32 years old. Von Miller is now 36 years old. That's the version of Von Miller we are getting. After that Super Bowl, he signed a massive deal and went to Buffalo where he has played the last

three seasons, and a lot has happened. I'll take you through it. He signed a six-year, $120 million deal in Buffalo. And he played well until he tore his ACL. late in that season. By the way, remember about that season, they opened up the Bills did with the Rams in the opening game of the NFL season, Thursday night football, and Buffalo hammered the Rams 31 to 10,

and he had two sacks of Matt Stafford and of his former team. But he tours ACL late in that season. He was placed on the reserve Pup List to start the 2023 season. He was finally activated to the roster in early October

of that year. But then in late November of 2020 he was accused of abusing his pregnant girlfriend. There was a warrant out for his arrest before he ultimately turned himself in and then was released on $5,000

bond. He struggled in 23. He did not have a sack that year because he was not the same player coming off the ACL injury. And he actually fell deep into the bill's depth chart as a backup and didn't end up starting any games that year. But then last year, look, he was given a four-game suspension, if you recall, without pay for violating the NFL's personal conduct policy.

But then when he was ready to play, he had six sacks. last year. His PFF pass rush grade last year was 11th out of 211 players qualified. That's interesting. I would not have guessed that. His pass rush grade PFF was 11th in the league last year. And then he had a memorable play in the playoff win over Baltimore recovering a fumble which Damar Hamlin forced and he returned at 39 yards to help set up the bills for an event. touchdown in their win over the Ravens. But after the season, he was released and he's been sitting out there as a free agent. And we knew that signing a pass rusher was a decent bet.

You know, we've talked about Clowny and Judon and Zedarius Smith and Von Miller. And by the way, the fact that none of these players were going to sign early in free agency, they were going to wait for all the OTA days and mini-camp days to clear. They would end up signing before camp with somebody because at their age they don't want to be a part of OTAs and mini-camps. Washington, I think, you know, entered this, you know, off-season with Miles Garrett in mind until Cleveland signed him, re-signed him. Trey Hendrickson in mind, and I think they were interested in Trey Hendrickson.

Joey Bosa was somebody we had talked about a few months ago. Bosa, by the way, signed in Buffalo. They have to replace 10 and a half sacks. Fowler Jr.'s 10 and a half from last year. Now, I'm not confident that Miller is going to replace all of those, but they needed pass rush help. It is amazing, isn't it, to a certain degree, that Washington is a destination for someone like Miller at this point in his career.

I mean, he's not going to sign with just anybody. At 36, he wants a chance to win. And he's choosing Washington. Just hasn't happened that much over the years. Washington, by the way, was the oldest roster in the NFL. And now it's even older with the addition of Von Miller. My preference, and we've talked about a lot of these guys and would they or wouldn't they sign a pass rusher?

I would have loved to have seen a run at either Zadarius Smith or Clowny. But I trust in Peters and Company right now. They've got nothing to lose, I would assume. You know, I haven't seen the terms of the deal, but it's not going to be pricey. Von Miller is going to be a veteran presence along with Bobby Wagner. Wow, the veteran presence on defense in that locker room. And look, you know, they need all the help they can get on defense. They've got to be much better at stopping the run.

And they've got to get after the passer this year. They did it at times last year, and Fowler Jr. was a part of that. I would imagine Von Miller is going to be only, you know, a specialized third down pass rusher. That's where we're going to see him play. You know, his snap counts in recent years have dropped. his where is it I have his snap counts they were down in the 30s last year so he there's a let's just see hold on his snap counts yeah 33% last year all right played in 13 games 33% of the snaps as a comparison his first year in buffalo before he got hurt 61% and then you know all of those years

in Denver. He was in the 70s to 80s in snap counts. And with L.A., he was in the, you know, close to 80% of snap counts as well. Six sacks, 11th in pass rush grade per PFF last year. You know, you write off 23 where he didn't have any sacks because he's coming off that ACL injury and he's got all of those personal issues that he's dealing with. We'll see. He has been one of the true havoc-reaking defensive players over the last 15 years. There's no doubt about that. He in Denver was a one-man wrecking crew at times. And was that in some big games for the Rams in 2021.

All right, there it is. Von Miller is the veteran pass rusher. Washington is reportedly adding. So after the break, you'll hear the show that Tommy and I recorded from the jump when we return after these words from a few of our sponsors. It can be hard for men to deal with hair loss, even though it's common. Luckily, I'm here to provide you with a solution so you don't even have to talk about it. Through Hymns, you can restore your hair by accessing their personalized hair loss solutions. HIMS provide you with convenient

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Tommy and I are recording this podcast Wednesday evening. I am heading out of town for a few days tomorrow morning. So you will get this show on Thursday afternoon. There won't be a show on Friday, but I will be back on Monday with a show. Tommy just informed me that he does not really enjoy. doing this show in the early evening or at nighttime because you feel like you're just not you're not with it, you're a little bit off, you're tired?

I'm a little bit tired by the end of the day. You know, this is not the sweet spot for senior citizens. It's not? This time at night, no. No, that's why they have the early bird special. There are some people that say your sweet spot's not in the early afternoon, neither. I know, I know.

I know. And, you know, sometimes it doesn't make sense because, you know, I mean, I can work all day. And then if we're going out dancing or her band, I'm up for that. Mm-hmm. But I guess because I guess I'm mentally prepared for that. Right. And I wasn't particularly mentally prepared for going on the podcast with you tonight, I guess. Well, I don't know that you're ever mentally prepared. Oh, yes. There's, yeah. Yes, I am. You are, okay, so you're mentally prepared, but you're not physically prepared.

It's not like you have sketched out notes that you have in front of you. You are Mr. Winget. We would agree on that. Oh, absolutely. I have no notes in front of me. 99% of the time. 99% of the time, you don't even know what we're going to talk about on this show. No, I don't.

Actually, 99% is high. I would say 75% of the time. You don't know what we're going to talk about on the show. When we did a radio show together, you would obviously know what we were going to talk about on the show because you helped prepare the show. Yes. Yes. And that was at noon. And I was a bit younger then.

Yes. That's true. You know? That's true. And I am now. You know, I get up earlier than I used to. What's early for you? Well, 6.30.

You know? Yeah. I mean, you know, that's early for me. I generally just kind of wake up and I can't fall back asleep. You know, I exercise during a day. I go for a walk and I find that by the end of the day, I'm ready just to sit and do nothing. And this is a little bit more than nothing, not much more.

You go for some walks. You probably eat some lunch. You're really, really physically overworked here during the day. Now listen. What? Now listen. Yesterday, I wrote a column. I did the podcast.

Yep. And I did my exercising. Right. That's a full day right there, buddy. What's your step count on a good day? Well, I mean, I read enough articles to conclude that 7500 is the number you want to maintain health. Mm-hmm. Okay.

That's a good number. So, it's a good number. I'm over 7,500 nearly every day. Well, good for you. You know what? That's, I think for someone, I was going to say of your age, but I think for someone like you, your age, your conditioning, 7,500 steps is impressive, and I don't think anybody should ask more of you.

Do you lift weights? Yes, I do, except I had to stop. about for a little bit because I snapped something in my shoulder when we were up in Brooklyn. Good. You know? And it pissed me off because I said to myself, I said to myself, I said, this is why I lift weights. So my shoulder doesn't snap. This is why you lift all them weights.

Yeah. Yes. This is why you lift all them weights. You know, but I work out with resistance bands and dumbbells. You know, nothing to, no like pump and iron kind of thing. or anything like that. And I read an article once where a trainer said, if you have less than 5,000 steps a day,

you're leading a sedentary lifestyle. So that's my statement. Wait, say that again. I miss that. If you have less than 5,000 steps a day, you're leading a sedentary lifestyle. Or as Michael Scott would say, a sedimentary lifestyle. I think that's what Michael Scott said on one of our favorite show episodes.

All right, let's get to the show. You know what they say, and they have said for years, that sitting is the new smoking. And one of the things, you know, for three hours on radio, I'm sitting for three hours. Do I get up during commercials? not that much because during commercials, you know,

especially when you're doing a show solo, you're kind of, you know, making sure you're prepared for the next segment. But so I have that very much in mind. So right when the show is over, I get up and I go and I walk for a while before I come back and call you to do the podcast,

typically in the early afternoon when you're in much better condition to do it. Okay. Enough about that. Nobody cares about that. This from Drew. Drew writes, Kevin, My Mom, Jane was a wonderful recommendation. Wow, what a bombshell twist.

Never saw it coming. This from Rob L. My Mom, Jane, Kevin, is the best recommendation you've made this year with adolescence a close dark. Yes, it was dark. Second. Yeah, My Mom Jane, the dot. documentary about Jane Mansfield, directed and produced by her daughter, Mariska Hargade.

Yeah, I loved it. You told me before we started recording tonight, you have not gotten it to it. I have gotten to it yet. But I guarantee you by the next time we talk, I will have seen. Whatever. I mean, you're very busy. I understand that you've got long days and you've got to go to bed early. My mom, Jane, was the recommendation. This from Josh. Josh writes, Kevin, I love Terry just as much as anyone. His reaction yesterday, so this is, you know, Wednesday when I got this about the press conference yesterday, his reaction yesterday didn't sit right with me. He clearly can't understand the business side of things, and his press conference felt insecure and had a lot of validation seeking. It all just felt so unnecessary.

Josh, I'm surprised because when you and I did the podcast yesterday, right after Terry's press conference, I said to you, it was too long, it was exhausting, it went on too long, it was annoying, and I didn't blame Terry for it. And on today's podcast that I put out earlier today, you know, I mentioned that I had learned that the Skins PR staff was not there. They did not manage this. They would have never allowed Terry to sit there for 35 minutes. I don't blame Terry.

But to your point, Josh, I did say that he oversold. You know, he didn't need to do that. As you said, validation seeking. And it was, I don't know if it was all unnecessary because there's, I don't think it hurts him for people who love him, and he is a fan favorite to know that he's pissed off. But I did think it was a bit much. I agree with you on that. Have you had any thoughts a day and a half later?

I just think that, look, I think Terry knows the business of football very well, unlike Josh, whatever Josh thinks. He's been through a holdout before. He's done this in 2022. Yeah. So this isn't his first rodeo. But, you know, I just think that he feels a little betrayed by what he felt like, the sort of culture that he was now part of with Dan Quinn. Yeah.

I told you, you know, the last time I spoke to him at length after the Carolina game where Jane Daniels got hurt in the first quarter and what's his name came in. Marcus Marriota. still won 47. Yeah. I mean, Terry at length talked to me about the culture, you know, about the standard that they set for themselves. We expect ourselves to execute at a very high level. Everybody needs to buy into that. We've got a group that has.

I think Terry was probably thinking, okay, this is what I've been waiting for. The team has now caught up to my standard. Right. Okay. So I think he feels a little betrayed. Yeah, I think, yes, the way you said it, I didn't say it exactly, but he feels like he's been at the forefront of this culture change, and he was trying to make it happen even before the new group got in.

And then the culture change happened. It happened quickly, and it happened simultaneously with this glorious season in which it was his best season. He felt like he was a leader in this, you know, revolution, if you will. And he's not being seen that way by the team. And it hurts him. You know, I think the – Yeah.

Yeah. This is different than this last hurt holdout because I think this one is more personal to him. Yes. And the last one, if you recall, there were some congressional hearings, some stuff that was about to happen. And I think Dan stepped in and got that one done. you know, back in June of 2020. But yeah, I guess the point Josh makes is the point that I've tried to make,

which is he didn't, and somebody shouldn't have let him do this. But he didn't need to go on and on for that long because he doesn't need validation from the fan base. You know, and if that was a way of trying to gain more validation from the team, that's his agent's job. And that's his job when he sits down with the team. It's a tough spot. This was going to be sort of tricky from the beginning. And, you know, Tommy, I don't know if you saw it,

but, you know, earlier today that ESPN wide receiver list came out. And Terry was not in the top 10. You know, he was 11. He was 11. But, you know, that's part of this too, is I think he sees himself differently than they see him. And that's why I asked you yesterday, is it style or is it skepticism? It's probably a little bit of both, maybe.

I don't think they see him the way he sees himself as a player. I think they certainly see him as a culture guy the way he sees himself. And then you've got the age thing that factors into it as well. But again, I mean, of all guys where I would not take the age thing as seriously, it would be a guy like this. That's fine. Okay. That's no. And, you know, he may be number 11 in the NFL, but he's number one here.

And I maintain there's a big drop to number two. That's fine, but you can't pay him like he's number four or five in the league. if he's number 11 in the league and number one here. And by the way, that's where, you know, some leverage with respect to age comes in. I actually, on the podcast that you guys heard yesterday, that you, but I mentioned that it's kind of difficult, isn't it, to kind of determine who has the most leverage?

I'd call it a wash. I'd say. I don't know. I think, I think, you know, I think you risk flushing a Jaden Daniels season if you go in with this kind of, with this kind of burden hanging over to team. I guess there is some risk. You just added another element to it.

There would be some risk to him missing a lot of camp and coming in and ending up with a soft tissue injury, a hamstring, because he wasn't there from the beginning, and that could derail them early on. the reason I say it's a wash is A, the team doesn't want to waste a Jaden Daniels rookie contract season. B, there's nothing on the roster right now that we would say they should be fine if they don't have Terry. And, you know, the reputation thing. You want to take care of a guy like Terry with, you know, the kind of, you know, the caliber of person and player.

that he is. But from Terry's standpoint, he's under contract. He can't go anywhere. He can't hold out going into his age 30 season and lose a year. And he can't force a trade because the team's not going to trade them. The worst value coming back would be right now, not to mention the value coming back for a player who wants to get paid is, you know, an issue anyway. You know, Tommy, I did say on the podcast that, again, you guys are hearing on Wednesday, it's interesting that on that wide receiver list, there are no bills, there are no chiefs, and there are no Raven wide receivers. Not in the top 10, not on the honorable mention list, not in others receiving votes. And yet, these three teams are three of the top four favorites to win the Super Bowl next year. I know. And the reason is quarterback.

Well, I mean, part of it, the reason for the Ravens is not just quarterback, it's running back. Yeah, but it's mostly quarterback. I'd say a lot of it's running back, too, with Derek Henry. They've gone just as far without Derek Henry. The Ravens Achilles' heel, everybody who roots for the team knows, has been wide received. That's true. That's true, and they haven't gotten to a Super Bowl, but the Chiefs basically were decimated. The Bills had nobody last year. And Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes elevated those two teams to the wins

into the positions that they got to in the postseason. And I'm just saying it because I guarantee you there is some thought that Jaden's elevated everybody, including Terry. And if they went into the season with Noah Brown and Luke McCaffrey and Michael Gallup and Debo Samuel, that, there may be some thought that they'll still be a really good team. I don't want them to go into the season without Terry. I want them to try to win the Super Bowl.

And what you said about the Ravens, what's been the knock all along? Get them a GD wide receiver and see what happens. But still, they've won a lot of games without one. Yeah, they have. And without Derek Henry, too. Yes. All right. Let me get to some other topics brought up by emailers, Tommy.

This from Mark. Mark writes, hi, Kevin. I wanted to fit two completely different topics into one email. Hope that's okay. Obviously, there's good debate over which number to retire first between 81 and 44. The main reason I'm happy with the team's call, though, goes back to Monk's wait for Hall of Fame induction. He is so truly humble and so quiet. I think it is great for the team to honor him now and send the message that his career might be undervalued and overlooked elsewhere, but not here. I love Riggins and I look forward to both his number retirement and

his statue unveiling at RFK. But for me, this was the right call for this season. I guess this second topic in this email was the suggestion that Rigo will have a statue. at RFK? Not a bad idea. Yeah, Monk had to wait far too long, no doubt. Yeah. If they go that route, you know, there's no, and if there's no Washington Redskins slash commander's statues of anyone. Well, no, there's no statue of anybody, right? No.

I mean, they put the mannequin up of Sean Taylor last year. and hopefully they'll do they'll improve upon that they've suggested that they're going to do that um yeah i i like sports statues wait a minute i think they're cool wasn't um didn't didn't wasn't what george preston marshall have a statue or not he had a he had a stone oh okay he had like a big stone with a plaque on it and they took that down in 2020 yeah okay He didn't have a statue. Look, I think Rigo should have gone in before Art. I understand Art's wait was longer,

but Art's wait for the Hall of Fame should have been longer than Rigo's wait for the Hall of Fame, but not as long as it turned out to be. I just, I think Rigo should have gone in before. I think if it's based on the players that they were and the importance to the fan base, both are great players and incredibly important, but Rigo is truly in a category that I think is just higher than where art is.

Arts Jersey deserves to be retired. I would retire Rigo's first. This from Matt. Matt wrote, I'm a new listener and first time writing in. Love the show and the podcast. I was listening to your segment about Art Munk's Jersey retirement. You made the list of former Redskins who you would retire without question

and then possible Jersey retirement. Yeah, I called that my debatable category. You made the statement that Russ Grimm's 68 is in the possible tier or debatable tier. I am astonished you would say that. I think without a doubt that not only should 68 be retired immediately, it should be the very next one. Russ Grimm is a four-time pro bowler, three-time first team all-pro, starter on the pro football Hall of Fame 1980s all-decade team,

and a three-time Super Bowl champion. You mentioned Riggins. I love John Riggins just as my father and his buddies did when they watched him, and he should be next. And he should be next. But can you argue his 82 playoff performance without the hogs against Randy White? No way. Especially when you consider that Russ Grimm dominated Randy White in the championship game.

The hogs are one of the most iconic groups in our Super Bowl era. They revolutionized the way the teams value the offensive line, and it made way for Dallas's future success. And now we see today with Philly, Dallas and the 90s, Philly now Philly's defense really led them more than anything else. But whatever. When you have a great offensive line, you will go very far. The hogs will always be a part of our identity, and we should honor that proudly. Thanks, Kevin.

You know what, Matt, you're not wrong. You're not wrong about, you know, they could have never done what they did without the hogs. That is true. and I do contend, Tommy, that Russ Grimm was the best of that 82 offensive line, 83 offensive wine. I think Jacoby was right there with him, but I think Grim was the best of the group. I just think... I think it's reasonable, and I would put Grim in the must retire. Yeah.

I would put him... You've got to have a hog. So you agree with Mark. Yes. Yeah. I agree with him. You have to have a hog to represent me because that's the heart and soul of the franchise. Yeah.

Matt. Matt was the email. Yeah. But, uh, I mean, I think Grims should be a must retire. I think the reason... What? Yeah. You know, it's funny they, I mean, uh, they're, they're retiring art monks number.

And he spoke to the media today, you know, via Zoom. Yeah. And, you know, that wasn't easy for him because he didn't like attention. He would have just assumed that they mailed him a letter telling him they retired his number. Then show up there with a camera crew at his house, I think, you know, to make the announcement. And Grim is no particular fan of the spotlight either, if they ever would bring Grim back. so it's kind of funny. I mean, you know, I'm sure these guys would be humbled by the act,

but I think they just as soon do it in an empty stadium with their family. I think, by the way, Matt, the reason that I didn't select, you know, grim for the no debate list is that while I do consider him to have been the best of the hogs, Jacoby second on that offensive line, the first hogs unit. You know, Stark, May, Bostic, you know, Fred Dean was a part of that 82 team as well. But I would, I think part of it is that it's, even though I do think Grimm's better, it's hard to pick one.

It was a group, the hogs. Whereas, you know, Rigo stands out by himself at that position. Sonny does. Darrell does, and I guess that's why I feel the way I feel. I don't think it would be hard for me to move grim to the no debate list without moving Jacoby to the no debate list. You know, it's funny, Tommy, on my no debate list, which is Thysman, Sean Taylor, Ken Houston, Larry Brown, Chris Hamburger, Joe Jacoby, Russ Grimm, Sam Huff. The guy that probably deserves it the most in terms of the player that he was,

is Ken Houston. Ken Houston was great. He was probably better at his position than anybody that has had his jersey retired already with the exception of maybe Sammy Baugh and maybe Daryl Green. But we've talked about this before. Any list of the greatest safeties in the history of the game, Ken Houston is consistently in the top five greatest safeties of all time. You can't I can't say that about any other player in this franchise's history, with the exception, I guess, of Sammy Ball. But even Sammy Ball is not a top five quarterback. No one has him in the top five or even top ten. And part of it is because of the time that he played.

But Ken Houston consistently considered to be one of the greatest safeties in the history of the game. And I know a lot of that, Tommy, as you know, was in Houston with the Oilers, but a lot of that was in Washington. He was a one, two, three, four, five, six, seven-time pro bowler in Washington, a two-time Associated Press first-team all-pro, and a one-time second-team all-pro. Twelve pro bowls for Ken Houston. No, I agree with you there. He's on the list of NFL all-time grade safety.

High up on that list. Way up on that list. Absolutely. You know what? What? Let's talk about Sam Huff a little bit. Yeah. You're going to retire Sam's number? I think that was a tough one for me because it's not just about his,

it should be just about the football career he had and what was it, five years. And he did make, I think, two Pro Bowls here in Washington. But yeah, his greatness was as a giant. I understand that. Right. Yeah. I mean, that's a tough one for me. I mean, I can see honoring him as a broadcaster.

Yeah. But there's a lot of guys I would put ahead of Sam Huff as to a number retired. You know what? I'm moving Sam Huff to my barely missed the debatable list to the third tier. Okay. I think that makes sense. I think you're right. I've thought about that before.

You know, yeah. And I've thought about, no. Jerry Smith is the greatest tight end in franchise history. is. Yeah. But it's not Jersey retire. No, it's not. As great as he was.

He should be in the Hall of Fame, but he's not. You think he should be in the Hall of Fame? Yeah, I think he should be in the Hall of Fame. But no, it's not a return. I don't think it's an absolute retire number jersey. I wouldn't put that on the must retire list, absolutely. I'm looking at his numbers right now. I know how great of a tight end he was, but he has nowhere,

near Hall of Fame numbers, not even close. Oh, come on, you can't do that. I know. You do this John Mackey. I understand that. I understand the eras. But he was only a pro bowler twice and made an all-pro first team just once. So he wasn't even considered the best tight end, you know, or even close to the best tight end in his era.

Who were the best tight ends in his, in the 60s when they were throwing the ball? ball all over the field with Sunny. Mackey, Didka. Those were the two guys. Right. Troy Sanders for the Lions. Yep. All right.

I'm glad Art's getting it in. And I watched a little of his interview. I mean, he is still a man of not a lot of words, but it was great to see him. And he looked great. He looked really, really good. I guess he's living down in Florida. I think he is.

They went down to Florida to surprise him with the news. All right. How about... He's looking really good. And I'm happy for him. Me too. Yes, I am too. Is there an echo in here?

All right. Up next, Shaq versus RG3. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, we've reached that point on the sports calendar where it is all about baseball. Basketball's in the rearview mirror. Football is still a few weeks away in terms of preseason games. So let's focus on baseball. Step up to the plate with prize picks and add your favorite baseball players to your lineup,

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The decision should be Wind Donations 50% off, five whole years of zero percent interest, their product and their customer service. Over 45,000 five-star reviews and an A-plus rating from the Better Business Bureau. 86690 Nation, Windonation.com. All right, let's get to this Robert Griffin III, Shaquille O'Neal beef that is going on. For those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about, before I play the audio of Shaquille O'Neal threatening Robert Griffin the 3 on a podcast yesterday, you need the context, you need to know why Shaq is upset with RG3. And for that, you need to go back to July 10th last week when Robert retweeted a racist depiction of Angel Reese on her NBA 2K26 video cover. Somebody put together a disgusting racist edit making Angel Reese look like a monkey on the cover of NBA 2K26. This was put together by somebody on Twitter with the handle Goblins Slayer, not making that up.

And Robert retweeted Goblin Slayer's ugly racist depiction of Angel Reese and then went on an RG3, you know, an RG3, you know, sort of congregation homily about race being terrible and, you know, he made it. of course eventually about him in a long, you know, quoted retweet. Now, let me give you some, you know, background on RG3 and Angel Reese. Now, I didn't know this until last week, but RG3 apparently is not a big Angel Reese person. He's a Caitlin Clark person, and he is accused Angel Reese of hating Caitlin Clark. Look, you know, there's a lot of hate for Caitlin Clark in that league. I had Christine Brennan on yesterday's show. You're listening to the show I'm doing Wednesday night on Thursday, and I would urge you to go listen to that. Christine's book on Caitlin Clark is apparently incredible, and she spent 40 minutes with me on yesterday's show. Anyway,

RG3's a big Caitlin Clark guy, and he has put himself sort of front and center, I guess, in the rivalry between Reese and Caitlin Clark. And in that retweet of this disgusting image of Angel Reese, he talked about how people and angels' inner circle have called him to tell him that he's right that Angel Reese hates Caitlin Clark. And people apparently don't believe him at all a bit, you know, that's never stopped him before. But the point is, is that RG3's got 2.2 million followers, and Goblin Slayer, who put out this, you know, image, had like less than 50. And so RG3 made this ugly depiction of Angel Reese a big part of social media for a few days when it would not have been had he had better sense and not retweeted it.

So that's the setup for this. Shaquille O'Neal was on a podcast called Off the Record. And he apparently is close to Angel Reese, and you'll hear him talk about Angel Reese. But here's what he said about RG3's tweet and his discussion of Angel Reese vis-a-vis the Caitlin Clark-Angel-Rease rivalry. RG3 tweet another monkey post about my girl Angearice I'm punching your face

okay it's enough like I don't usually do stuff like this but just stop it bro you got your job you got your podcast leave my angelary slow I'm the one calling her

and telling her not to respond I can stop it that's the last time not exactly the guy you want threatening to punch you in your face Shaquille O'Neal I wanted to quickly Tommy just read what he said

because he can be kind of soft-spoken at times. RG3, tweet another monkey post about my girl Angel Reese, and I'm going to punch you in your effing face. Okay, it's enough. Like, I don't usually do stuff like this, but just stop it, bro. You know, you know what this is?

This is, I've tried to try it. Best way to describe RG-3 sins, this biggest sin, okay? is basically annoying. He's annoying in person. He's annoying electronically. You know, if you're around him, at some point, he'll become so annoying that you can't stand him.

Whether it's on social media, or whether it's in a studio somewhere. And this is, he's just an annoying guy. You know, he will just, say something stupid or do something self some self ridiculous self important statement and you know it's constant eye rolling with this guy constant eye rolling you know constant eye rolling yeah yes if you've lived more than you know three or four years as an adult you are rolling your eyes constantly when this guy speaks or does things.

How old is he now? And I don't really care. I don't really care that much about it, but here's what I do care about. If and when, and probably more likely when than if, the RG3 documentary comes out, I'm afraid that it's not going to give a proper view

of what this guy is and what. It depends on how... ...is 2012 season. Yeah. Why do you say that? Why do you say that? Well, because I think he has enough apologists away from Washington who, you know, have never interacted with him in person.

Yeah. And, you know, there's a lot of dummies on social media who buy into his little, his quips and comments. comments. And I just think that from a distance you see from time to time that RGT was a victim in D.C. That happens. That constantly happens from time to time. And I don't want that to be the definitive story of him because that would be a lie. Yeah. You know, he's 35 years old right now. God, man, time flies. I think

I don't know if it'll happen that way. I think enough people now know, you know, even outside of this town or outside of the circles he's been in in media. I think enough people know. There's certainly a large group of people who don't have a clue that are still big fans of him

because of what he was as a college quarterback, what he was as a rookie quarterback. I think the one thing that I look back on, and it just, for me, even now, it makes me, it makes me angry to think about some of the arguments I got into during, you know, 2013, 2014, 2015, really 2015 and on, that were racially tinged. you know, people were trying to make the RG3 situation in Washington out to be a racial situation. And it never was, not even close. And I think a lot of those people now know if they thought that way that, okay, we get it now. We've seen enough of the, you know, buffoonery over the years. but I remember what was that guy's name?

He was on ESPN. Bomanie Jones, I think it was. Bommone Jones. Bommonnie Jones. He suggested when we were doing our radio show that we were attacking RG3 based on his radio. Yes, he basically said Washington Media, and then I got into it with him on Twitter because I kept saying, just come on our show. Let's talk it out. And he declined every single time. And I said to him, you just aren't in our lane, like stay in your own lane. I said that. That really pissed him off.

But I said, we had a quarterback controversy here in the 1980s, Doug Williams, J. Schrader, and overwhelmingly, fans, media-backed Doug. Williams in a, you know, less evolved society, it's never been about race with the quarterback in this town. It's been about just finding one that can play. And Doug Williams is as beloved, you know, a quarterback as we have ever had. And it just was so not true. And I think so many of us here knew what was going on behind the scenes that this guy was literally impossible. And Jay basically said it. Remember the Jay quotes during that 2014 season. I mean, still to this day, I'm not sure I've ever seen a coach throw a quarterback or any player under

the bus the way Jay did. He had just had it. He could not stand it anymore. Couldn't stand him. Like you said, just the annoyance of him. And then just the lack of just complete lack of self-awareness. You know, with that said, I've always felt this way about him. He does have ability. He's not dumb. Okay? He's smart and he's a very good communicator.

If he ever grew up and became a little bit more reflective, self-reflective, self-reflective. I mean, he could have great success. I'm not suggesting that with two million or so followers in a podcast that probably does very well, that he's not successful right now. But I mean, you know, he had opportunities to become a media success.

Now, no, does anybody... Apparently, he has... He is part of... Is he part of the Netflix crew now? He was on the Christmas Day game. but, you know, like everybody else that has had him on set with him, after, you know, a few, a few shows, it's like, please, can we get somebody else here? This guy's just looking to create the next meme. I've always been convinced that he's going to wind up an elected office from, me too.

From a district in Texas. Yeah, me too. Somewhere. Yeah. Um, well suited for that. He should not have. You remember, remember, I gave him the nickname Super Bob. Yeah.

And people tried to, on the radio station, people tried to get me fired for that. I mean, call me racist, you know, call on the station program director saying I should be fired for racism. That was my nickname for him, Super Bob. It was to try to diminish. That's what nicknames, that's why I use them to stick a pin in somebody who's, who's, who's, much too self-inflated. Oh, God, was he self-inflated. And that pin, it didn't pop it, but it started to leak.

I mean, by the end here, you know, it's just, it was like we were exhausted. It was like, get him out of here. This is exhausting. I'll still never forget. Jack wants to deflate him, that's for sure. Yeah. Yeah, we. We're talking all about RG3, but we're not talking about the threat.

Shaq would destroy RG3, but he'd have to catch him, and I don't know that he could. But Robert should not have tweeted out that picture. That was really horrible judgment. Horrible judgment. I mean, again, the platform you have, you have to be smarter about what you put out there because you're judged by that stuff. Yeah. Even if you criticize it. It's amazing to read through the responses to that tweet.

I mean, they are five to one. Like, what are you doing? You're such an idiot. You're such an attention whore. Yeah. And that's what he's been, you know? He's 35. He's still basically doing the same stuff.

Um, okay. Uh, you wanted to talk about Wizards fans. and their reaction to the Wizards in Summer League. We'll do that to finish up the show next after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelley's backroom. If it's Thursday, and it's not Thursday, actually. It's Wednesday. We're taping this, but the podcast will come out Thursday.

So the effect is the same thing. If you're coming down to D.C. this weekend, make a point to stop at Shelley's backroom at 1331 F Street Northwest because they've got three specials that are excellent off their menu of food. And you can see their food menu at shelley's backroom.com.

One of our specials is the cassidia burger. A half pound of Shelley's custom blend with cheddar cheese, tomatoes, jalapenos, and flour tortilla and served with salsa fresca and sour cream. I'm thinking that's your that's your baby right there that's my baby

yes I wasn't listening I wasn't listening tell me what you were talking about okay cascad dea burger yeah sorry about that I was reading something you do this to me all the time all the time

okay I know so I know so go ahead tell me tell me about this great Shelley's menu item because I love their menu half pound of Shelley's custom with cheddar cheese, tomatoes, halaminos, and flour tortilla. Yeah. And served with a salsa fresca and sour cream. That's for me.

Right now, I haven't eaten dinner. That's yours. Yeah. Right there. I'm ready for that. Now, I would go for the second special that they're offering this week. Okay. Tell us about that one.

By the way, that first special, that's only 1695. That's a deal. That's a great deal. Yeah. I would take the bacon-mushrum chicken melt with grilled chicken breast. You don't like mushrooms, though? Well, I would ask them to leave the mushrooms off. See?

Okay, and they'll do that for you because, you know, their goal is to make you happy at Shelley's backroom. I know what my friend likes and doesn't like. I could order that for you and tell the mushrooms aren't going to be good for him. Keep them off. Yes. Yes. You can put those on the side and give them to me.

Absolutely. That's what I would do. I would say save the mushrooms for this guy. You know, he just finished a case of Diga burger, and he still wants to 40. I'll take some veggies. Mushrooms are veggies. You can find out more at shelley's backroom.com. You don't like mushrooms? Have you ever done mushrooms? No, I've never done them, and I don't like that.

That was a night. College, been a long time. I would not people don't mess with those things those are psychedelics they are not they're dangerous I do remember what it felt like though

and it wasn't one time in college okay enough about that you had said something before we started to record about people annoying you on Twitter about the wizards what did you mean

Well, annoying seems to be the word of the show today. I think I'm just going to title this show, annoying. I see a good idea. Because you've been annoying for some of this show. Yes. Yes, you always are annoying. Okay. What annoyed you about Wizard's Summer League talk?

You know, it's not Wizards fans per se, because there's not that many around to really annoy you. It's the media. It's what passes for the media these days. You know, nobody covers the team anymore, except for these fan sites. You know, a guy sitting at home with his own little website or his own little social media account. And that counts as covering the team these days. Right. And, okay, I mean, my particular gripe is with the reaction to the Wizards performances individually in the Las Vegas summer.

Yeah. Okay, the Summer League ranks up there among the biggest frauds in all sports. Of course. Okay, you can't judge anything, anything as to how a guy will compete in an NBA game based on a summer league performance. But this, this, and I'm not going to mention the guy's name. Okay. He's one of those accounts, you know, that... Is he with the bullets forever site?

Because I like those guys. And I think they do a really good job. I'm not paying attention to them. I'm not paying attention to any of the Summer League stuff. Although my guy, Linnell, you know, who does work on 1067 the fan and on 980, I was in the car the other night. He was breaking down the Summer League game. And he was...

You see? This is what I mean? Yeah. I know. These guys that you like, bullets forever, they're in the same boat. I guess. Come on. Yeah.

But this guy says, this is after the game one. This is about Trey Johnson, you know, the guy they drafted. Yeah. In all seriousness, did we just get our star? Oh, God. Trey has an absurd level of shot making that will be even better in the playoffs. And it's an amazing playmaker and improving defender. Mm-hmm.

we might actually have our superstar. I actually really like Trey Johnson, just so you know, but it would not be based on Summer League games. Right. I know that. I get that. I understand that. He's a terrific shooter.

He's a good playmaker, and he's a lousy defender. Just so everybody understands what we're talking about, because I think most of you don't even know that there is an NBA Summer League. But it's actually gained popularity in recent years. Whereas probably 15 years ago, Tommy, I don't think anybody even knew it existed. But, you know, the NBA, by the way, give them credit. You know, they're filling this void of no football with their NBA finals, with the draft that they get right to when the finals are over, literally within a week.

And then they go a few days later right into this summer league. And, you know, they try to highlight the stars that were just picked in the draft. but the large majority of players playing in these games are not going to see an NBA floor in the NBA regular season ever. And many of the others that will eventually be on an NBA roster will be at the end of the bench on an NBA roster. With that said, it is your first chance to see Cooper Flag and Trey Johnson. And some of these college stars or international stars that just got picked play their first basketball.

But it's just not real basketball. There's nothing resembling an NBA even regular season game. This speaks to a bigger problem as the clock winds down this evening and I get crankier and crankier and crankier. Okay. This speaks to a bigger problem that we are now raising a generation that is not able to critically think. They're not able to critically analyze and think. You know, everybody is a cheerleader now. Doesn't matter whether it's sports, not sports, everybody has their cheering interest,

and that's what they get behind. I mean, you should, if you're going to write about, basketball, you should have enough sense to recognize what you're watching here. Okay. And to fan the flames that the wizards, you know, have finally, you know, found this lineup of play. And a team that won 18 games last year. Now, they're going to be a totally different team this year. I get that.

I mean, and I'm not criticizing what the Wizards are going to win 22 this year. I've seen some, I've seen some of these. media people that I've come across briefly. This was after the Cam Whitmore trade, suggests that this was a trade that unfortunately might put them in the play-in game. Yes. No, it won't. It will not.

I mean, you know, but this is, this speaks to a lack of critical thinking, a lack of being skeptical, you know, of what you're watching, a lack of trying to figure out, you know, give some depth to what you're explaining. Don't just, you know, just don't blurt out the first thing that's in your head. Wow, they're going to be great. Everything's great.

This guy's great. Yeah. I guess that's true. I don't know. I'm going to trust you that everybody is a cheerleader in those areas. You know, I see that with the football team for sure. There are a lot of those fansite. that, you know, gain a little bit of traction here or there that seem to be, you know, the let Adam Peters cook, let DQ cook, you know, the same way they were about Sam Hal and Eric B. Enemy, the same way they were about Carson Wentz. Look, I think they're right about Adam Peters and Dan Quinn, by the way. But yeah, whatever. Fans are fans. It's fine. It's fine. If you're legit media, you probably should.

be without, you know, the capability of critical thought. Yes. But there is, I don't know if there is any legit media for the wizards. Covering the wizards. I don't know if, I mean, the Post does, but I don't think they're covering the summer league. I don't know if they are or not. Yeah.

I don't know if the athletic covers the wizard. Well, that guy, or the athletic guy is Josh Robbins, I think. I've had him on the show before. I read him during the season. I have, I'm excited about Trey Johnson. I'm excited about their young players. I will start to, you know, have any legitimate thoughts about these players when they play real games. By the way, it's not that much different with the NFL in preseason training camp.

And some of the, you know, cheerleading that goes on there, it's like, when are you going to learn your lesson? My God. Yeah. This stuff just doesn't matter. Baseball the same way in exhibition baseball. Same thing. What else? That's all I got for you tonight, boss.

You know what? I got to watch tonight. What? Gordon Ramsey's Secret Service. What is that? You know, Gordon Ramsey's the chef who curses everybody out. He did a show here recently that I know people that went to it. I don't know where it was.

In Frederick. Oh, okay. That's because people were talking about this the other day. I was... Yes, the first episode aired last Wednesday at a restaurant right down the street from where I live. A restaurant, an old neighborhood restaurant called Callahan. Okay. And he basically went undercover with cameras and exposed all these things that are wrong with it.

And it was the talk of the town, you know, it was a big deal. Right. So I watched it, and part two is tonight. Okay. see how he saves things. Now, you know, I mean, it's all staged bullshit. It's all staged bullshit. I mean, reality television, that's all it is.

Okay, but I'm, but it's a big doing, Frederick. Good. I'm glad you're going to be able to stay up for it. Can I just mention one more thing before we're done? It is NBA related, so I'm taking some risk here. but Bradley Beal was traded, or I'm sorry, cut loose by the Phoenix Suns and signed a two-year deal, I believe, with the Clippers. I like that for the Clippers, actually, because they lost Norman Powell, and I think Beal actually will be a good fit for that team. But Bradley Beale got traded by the Wizards to Phoenix two years ago.

Do you know how many playoff games were won during the Bradley Beale, Kevin Durant, Devin, Booker era. Zero. At least. Zero. Zero. Zero. Zero.

And the Wizards paying Bradley Beal that, you know, Supermax deal after he made the all NBA, third team, I think it was. And I think it was like $250 million. And not just paying him. The no trade clause. But giving him no trade clause.

Yeah. That, honestly, there are a lot of them out there, but that's going to be on a list of the top 15 or 20 worst contracts in sports history. Yes. Yes, it will. And from such a smart man, too, I don't understand it. Well, I mean, I like Tommy Shepard.

I really do like Tommy Shepard. Well, that wasn't his contract. I know, I know, I know who you were referring to. But that whole time, I'm like, Bradley Beale is not a Super Max talent. I'm sorry. He isn't. You got to trade him. And they should have traded him earlier.

That was a mistake. And giving him the no trade clause, my God. But Beale was just, he just never was that lead guy or even that number two. Never. And apparently he's not even a great number three. This is a good fit for him too. Two years, $11 million is nothing. He's 33 years old, I believe.

and he is going to fit with Kauai Leonard if Kauai Leonard stays on the floor and is healthy in James Harden. Because they traded Norman Powell to the heat in the offseason. And Powell was a borderline all-star last year. I think this could be a resurrection of his career. He's got to stay healthy and he's got some influences in his life, as we all do with our significant other. but that wife of his, she, I think Brad has a vote when he's home alone, and that's the only time he has a vote. All right, I'm done with you.

No show Friday. I'll be back on Monday. Tommy, thanks. Okay, boss. RG3. Tweet another monkey post about my girl and raise some punching your face.