The Kevin Sheehan Show - Wall Era Over + Charley Casserly

Episode Date: February 6, 2019

Kevin opens the show talking John Wall's ruptured achilles with Scott Jackson. Is the Wall era over? Both Kevin and Scott think yes. Former Redskins & Texans GM Charley Casserly joins the show to talk Super Bowl, Patriots, Redskins, and quarterbacks in the upcoming NFL Draft. Also, Kevin thinks the Lakers' 42-point loss to the Pacers is a result of an off-putting trade deadline situation. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right. I'm here. Aaron is here. This show is presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com and tell them we told you to call. Charlie Casserly will call in a little bit and we'll talk to him about the Patriots and a lot about the Redskins as well. But we're going to open the show with the news that John Wall ruptured his Achilles and he is out for an estimated 12 months and I'm going to bring in a good friend of mine and I would call him a wizard's expert over the years. You have been as much as anybody else

in town. Scott Jackson is with us. By the way, how many are you, I know you're doing VCU games but somebody told me that you were on another call of another game recently on NBC Sports Washington. like a Saturday or Sunday game. Was it VCU or was it another game? No, I've just been strictly doing VCU and I've been doing some work for monumental sports actually doing some of their bigger high school games. I did La Lumeir last week,

which is the number one team of the country. And a tournament up in Cumberland, the Bob Kirk Classic. So now it wasn't me. I did get that. I don't know who did a game, but somebody thought it was me and I've gotten that from a few people. So as long as like they send me his check, I'm cool with it. Yeah, all right. So it's just, it's just VCU basketball you're doing. How are they doing this?

Well, yeah, the non-games that are on national TV. My dog is so fired up about this game. The games that are not on national TV, which is not that many for them. So it's about an 11-12-game package. I've done. I did one radio game for them as well. But tonight I'll be doing GW VCU and the next GWVCU down in Richmond in a few weeks. But you're 15 and 6.

You know, they're just outside the top looking in. Davidson's the top team of this conference. VCU just crushed George Mason over the weekend. Pretty good. And, you know, Mason got off the really good start. Really good start. Really good start. Yeah, after having a lousy start outside of conference.

So, you know, I think they're really good. They got a chance they defend really well again. They're back to havoc. Offensively at times they kind of have issues, especially in the half court. But I still think they're a team that probably, you know, has a really good shot at making the tournament and win at the A10. Although I think the A10 might be in a tough spot as a one-bid. league. I think VCU at one point had a chance to get, you know, at large had they, you know, won some games, but they, they didn't, they missed some opportunities if they Rhode Island

the loss might come back and hurt them, too. We're going to get to Wall here in a second, but Aaron, Michigan State lost again last night. Scott, they've lost three in a row. And they lost at Illinois. And, you know, when Maryland lost Illinois at the Garden in a game that should have never been played in the garden, thank Kevin Anderson for that one. for scheduling a conference game in January with the students back for a neutral court environment, even though they were more Maryland fans still.

They should have never done it. But after that game, Scott, I was like, you know, here's the thing. It's a bad loss. They shouldn't be losing to Illinois. But you could tell watching that game, Illinois's got some talent. Like, every team in the Big Ten is capable on any given night. I mean, Penn State, I actually think this guy Chambers does a good job coaching the team. But for Illinois to beat Michigan State last night, now Michigan.

Michigan State is, I wouldn't call it free fall because two of the loss, well, they lost to Purdue on the road, but to lose to Indiana who was playing poorly at home and then at Illinois, Big Ten race is nuts. And it's a huge game for Maryland tonight at Nebraska. I know you're following a lot of this. That sounds weird by the way. That sounds weird by the way. Well, I know. I mean, we joke about it. We've been joking about it for four years in it now. And believe it or not, I'm actually now starting to get a little bit used to it. Not really, though. I would rather have said, like, Marilyn's got a big game tonight at Indiana or a big game tonight at Michigan State or Michigan.

Or at Duke. No, well, that's what I, you know, that's what I would really prefer to be able to say. I would even rather say they've got a big game at NC State, like they got a big game in Raleigh tonight. But anyway, we digress. Let's get to John Wall. So 12 months is the projected timeout from the date that he actually has. the surgery, which I don't even think it's been scheduled yet. The first question is this. Do you believe you and I both have been, you know, excited. Let's be honest. We've been excited about the John

Wall Bradley Beale era, not because we thought they could win titles, but because we thought there was a five, six, seven, eight year run of being in the playoffs every year, of, you know, every once in a while contending for an Eastern Conference final series, you know, and I think what happened yesterday is I think that era ended. Do you agree or disagree? Yeah, you know, I went over this yesterday with some people that, you know, have tracked this kind of stuff with injuries and Achilles in particular in the NBA. And really, anybody who's athletic, when they come back from this, they're not the same person.

I mean, the only person anybody could come close to that came back and I think it was an all-star again after this kind of injury. was Dominique Wilkins. And you look at Boogie Cousins. Now he's a different kind of player. He doesn't rely on his speed, but he's coming along nicely. Maybe, you know, you could say advancement in medicine and all that stuff. And Kobe was never the same guy, obviously after this. And John Wall, let's face it.

Kevin, we've talked about this a ton over the years. As much as we appreciate his intensity, his competitiveness, he is not a overly skilled player. He's not a polished shooter. He's not a guy who can, you know, beat you in the half court all the time. You know what I mean? He needs to be going fast, and he needs to use that athleticism. And I don't know how you come back from this.

And I'd be very interested to see what the Wizards do between now and the trade deadline. I know what they've said publicly. But at the end of the day, you've got to be more realistic, I think, than that. And you can never say never in this business, no matter who your players are. All right. We'll get to what they should do here. And, you know, they've only got, you know, less than 36 hours or whatever to do something this year. But you and I have both been on the same page, you know, if we're honest with each other.

We've been very excited, not that we thought this was a team that was, you know, arcing towards championships, but a team that for, you know, five, six, seven, eight years was going to be, you know, a top four type of team in the East and would participate in the playoffs every year and would participate in maybe in Eastern Conference Finals at some point. Look, it was just a year and a half ago or coming up on two years ago that they were within a game. They had the lead late in Game 7 in the Garden with a chance to get to the Eastern Conference finals. which, by the way, came off of one of John Wall's signature moments in game six and came off of maybe one of the greatest individual performances in franchise history when he went for 42 and, you know, how many assists and steals in that,

in that deciding game in Atlanta in the first round. But it's now, you know, it's now not going to really happen. I mean, I think we can, I mean, I look at this team, and even though I like the way they play sometimes, I mean, other night was horrible. They give up 130 plus a game. Ted can't possibly think, Kenny, that this team right now, as currently constructed, can actually get to the postseason and anything can happen, as he said, on TOP last week? Yeah, I mean, he says that and, you know, Ernie, the few times he's spoken, has said some things to that impact as well about believing

in the guys. But, yeah, I mean, look, I don't know how you can believe that. I just. point. And like, at some point, don't you have to have a better plan than, oh, anything can happen in the playoffs? Because let's be honest, outside of the one year you just touched on, nothing has almost happened for them in the playoffs. But then you have a positive, you know, positive finish. I mean, this is kind of similar in a sense, Kevin. This feels like some of those bullets years where A. Poland's teams that were, that he owned that were just getting into the playoffs under 500 records and they would be one and done. They'd be happy with that because they would get their home playoff game and get that money.

Mohorn and Ruling. Yeah, we get, oh, we'll get our two home playoff games and we'll cash in and that'll help cover some of the expenses. I mean, and I get it and you get it. It's a business, but it's, you know, for a guy who came in, guns of blazing about what he wanted to do with this team and that big picture mindset, we just haven't seen it since he's become the wizard's owner. It's actually been a lot of the same, to be honest with you, with some glimpses of some potential. But when they missed out on Durant that summer, I mean, that was huge. But then Scott Brooks, I think, you know, people have a lot of faith in him with that 49-win season we were just talking about. But since then, you know, the John Wall injuries have been a problem. But the bigger

problem is that John Wall just, even when he has played, you know, you can look at the numbers, like, oh, well, those are great. But I think we all know that at times this team has not been very cohesive together. And some of the best moments have actually been when John's been sidelined these last couple seasons when this team's kind of overachieved. So I think that's a tough thing that you've got to be honest about. I mean, not a port of contract. If you get out of that by tomorrow, I think you've got to do that. Or as much as we all like a reason, I mean, why are you keeping him around just to finish

off the year, unless you absolutely know he's going to come back? And that's the one way you can keep him. But even that seems like just a band-aid, you know? Jeff Green, some of these other guys are all one-year contracts. You just seem like, it seems like you need to move on now and get something from him. Because at the end of the day, if you don't move a reason, that means, and he goes away in the off season, that means you've got absolutely nothing out of Kelly Ubray. nothing and you traded up for Kelly Ubrae too remember that they slid around in the draft

and gave up assets for him so and that's been a frustrating thing about this wizard's year after they talked so much about the draft when Ted took over right they've really done a terrible job in the draft and basically just kind of discounted it on many seasons you know it's it's also such a delusional thought when it comes to the NBA playoffs in particular that anything can happen in the playoffs because we never see in the NBA that anything can happen the best teams always advance. He's thinking about hockey where anything can happen in the postseason. It doesn't happen that way. All right, you started down the path of maybe what they should try to do, even before the wall thing yesterday. I'm so ready to move on from Otto Porter. If they can get something back,

I want that contract moved. He's a nice guy. He's a versatile player. He's not a killer. He's not a tough competitor. He's not a guy that, that, you know, leads to winning as a number three, you know, option. What could they get back for Otto Porter? That's a great question. Could you get, first of all, here's the problem with any of these big contracts. You've got to match, obviously, the dollar for dollar. So that's, that's an issue, right? I think one of the, I think we've got to find it. You've got to find a team that makes sense. I mean, obviously the Brooklyn Neds wanted them a few years ago, but now, I mean, would they really want them? I mean, They've actually done a great job with, you know, asset allocation, all that fun stuff that people like to say in the NBA.

I think Sacramento might be your mark, right? I mean, that's the team you've got to look at and say, well, what could I get out of Sacramento if you went that direction? And, you know, would they be willing to give up some draft picks as well? I mean, because I think that's the Wizards have to look at it. It's not, you just obviously don't get bad contracts. And here's the other thing that Wizards need, Kevin. They need players under contract beyond this season because they only have five guys under contract next year and they're sucking up all the cap space. I mean, that's the other reality to this thing.

I don't know how you build a team next year, even if you had Wall. Now one of those players is on a Supermax, and he's not even participating. Yeah, I mean, you know, the blow-it-up strategy is a strategy that unfortunately doesn't bring a lot back because what you're trying to do is you're trying to trade a big contract for another big one that's expiring. And you're not going to get a lot of value with that in taking back an expiring contract. So they're in a bit of a bind right now. And, you know, they just haven't done it right. You know, you and I may be the only two people in town that actually think Ernie isn't the worst general manager in the NBA,

because he's not. He's not the worst in the NBA. But I would ask you this question. Who goes first? Bruce Allen or Ernie Grunfeld. No, seriously, actually, that's a serious question, actually. I was joking, but now I'm thinking, you know what? That's actually not a bad question.

I'll tell you what. Well, I mean, if he didn't read between the lines of what Ted had to say the other day, I mean, he did essentially say, you know, he wants them to meet their goals. And if they don't, then, you know, they kind of have to look at everything. So this team doesn't feel like there's any chance they're going to make the playoffs. So if they do move on from Ernie the off season, and I think he's in a more precarious situation because it appears there's nothing happening with the Redskins in terms of real change in it before next year. My question's always been with the Wizards, well, who's next?

And can Ted find that person? I mean, because look, again, he was the owner of waiting for a real long period of time. And what he did when he came in was, you know, stay the course with the initial group. I mean, he did some different things and restructuring, but they kept the brain trust in house. And, you know, maybe the smartest guy, you know, we talk so much about Sean McVeigh getting away from the Redskins. Tommy Shepard. We might be saying it a few years. Well, no, Tim Connolly gets away from the Wizards, who's running, you know, taking care of business and kicking ass out there in Denver.

You know, he was, you know, he was a Baltimore kid. him and his brothers all around the league and are basketball guys. And, man, boy, would you like to have him back working for you right now if you're going to make change? But, yeah, I think Tommy Shepard's probably in a good spot. And I know that's not going to excite the masses, you know, because what's Tommy going to do? He's been under Ernie all this time. But you know how it is.

I mean, look, if you're working under a guy, it's one thing versus when you're the guy. And I'm sure he's got a lot of different philosophies and a lot of things he would have done differently. I know people that have worked here in the past in this organization that we're not always on board with a lot of the moves they made and, you know, from draft picks to trade, but, you know, they had to go along with it. And, you know, and people will, will rightfully so pick on Ernie for a lot of the things that happened here as they should. But again, a lot of this is part of Ted Leontes's resume, too. And the fact that, you know, it seems almost like he's almost okay with just being

a playoff team every year and, you know, breaking even or making money or however it works. It's more financial than, you know, successful at this point. And that's a bit of a bit of of a concern because that's what we rip Dan Snyder for. You know, sometimes we get on the learners about some of the decisions they make financially. And, you know, I get it. Ted's got the only championship recently here with the caps. But it did take, what, 20 years? I mean, I think we're like, what, in year 10 to the Wizards now?

So, I mean, you know, I would like to think they could move a little bit further along at some point. And, you know, he's, you know, Apollett used to get ripped for being loyal. But, I mean, Ted has been extremely loyal. I mean, extremely to a fault loyal at this point. it appears with what he's doing with not just the front office guys, but with the players. I mean, I like the fact that he likes, and I think all those guys, individual, you know, Otto, Bradley Beals terrific, and John really does, you know, he's competitive. Does he know how to get there?

I'm not sure. But, you know, I think he wants to do well. I just don't know if he's doing all the things he needs to do to be, you know, becoming a, you know, real top 10 stud of the league. Well, Ted can take this opportunity to just remind everybody. here that yeah John Wall's going to go in for surgery here shortly but you know very shortly you're going to be able to gamble your ass off and lose all your money at Capital One Arena which is going to be great for the fans um you mentioned Eiza or just real quickly what could they get back for ERISA

well I've seen today just I don't know it's been real there's been a lot of rumors about him potentially being moved I mean I would hope that like again you have to get at draft picks you have to get somebody with a friendly contract or a expiring contract, you know, as well if you're worried about, you know, stand under obviously the luxury tax, which appears to be very important to this team. But I haven't seen any like who's, you know, like not like they're going to get Lonzo ball for him or somebody like that. I haven't seen anything like that. I haven't seen that Riza has some interest out there right now. Can you get anything for Marquief Morris or Dwight Howard?

Boy, I don't think so with Howard because he's injured. I think your hope for Howard is he just pops out of his contract at the end of the year. And, you know, Marquith Morris potentially, because I think he's, what, two weeks away from coming back. So maybe you could figure out something there. But I think you also, I think that window was lost earlier this year. Are we about to enter, you know, an era that we've seen before of, you know, 20 to 25 wins a year for several years? I mean, like I –

It doesn't seem like they want that, though, right? I mean, that's what they're kind of fighting. They're fighting more. no, we want to be like around 40 wins or 30 to, you know, whatever the eight seed gets. You know what I mean? That seems to be where they're aiming for right now, whether they're going to admit it or not, but that's really the way they're moving that could happen. I mean, I guess, you know, that we could be stuck in that pattern.

I mean, if they got in the lottery consecutive years, would not be the worst thing. And again, I understand Ted, you know, position on not purposely tanking and making a mockery of it as a lot of these teams the league appear to do. But at the same time, when you got an injury like this, you've got to really, you've got a thing. about things. I'm not saying, you know, fixing games, but I mean, you got to think about moving some of these guys that have value. I did see, take that for the Lakers, the one guy did see they were talking about because the salary matching was Codwell Pope, but they got to get a draft pick back too, but the Lakers are probably sending all those to New Orleans. Yeah, that's their, that's their hope, is that somehow for a two to three

year period, they hit on first round picks. And the problem with that is, is that's been their biggest weakness with Ernie is drafting, you know, anywhere outside of the top, you know, two or three, three picks in the draft. All right. Well, I mean, I personally don't look at the team without John Wall. There's no doubt that the style of basketball at times has been more pleasant to watch if you're, you know, sort of a basketball purist without John Wall. But without John wall, they were severely limited in terms of their ability to do anything even if they could get to the postseason and even that, you know, at this point seems like a reach with some of the recent losses to teams like Cleveland and giving up a buck 37 at home to Atlanta. So anyway.

They've been regressing. I mean, no question before that, you know, before this devastating news, this team was regressing. I, you know, I kind of felt like a few weeks back they should have kind of been on the mindset of selling and not, you know, just hanging on just to, you know, just be, you know, the eighth seat, and it gets your brain speed in by the box or whoever in the first round. You think Wall really slipped and fell at home? You're not the first of the last first. I'm sure that's going to bring that up.

I think it probably, the reason I think it will be at home is because I think clearly he had his boot off, right? I don't think he would have been out and about with his boot off. Right. You know, that's, you know, he probably was literally trying to get into the shower. I don't know. I mean, him and Dee Hall, I mean, have the infamous Achilles' injuries in town, right? He had back to back.

He had two and two years. Right. But his was, like his second injury, I think, happened while he was healing for the first one. Right. He was at his house as well. So, yeah. But, you know, that's a sad thing, too, about John Wall because it's been so much talk about the off-the-court exploits that people do go right there immediately and question the story, which is kind of a shame. Because I do think, I'm sure he's devastated as, you know, you've read all the stories and heard what Scott Brooks had to say about him,

apologize to Brooks, but I got to believe this gets devastated. I mean, I don't think you signed this contract with the hopes of not playing for the next two years. It's going to stink because I know that, you know, our good friend Richard Doc Walker would say, what's the point if you're not winning championships? But I've actually enjoyed some of the last few springs where we've had a team that, you know, could win a series or two, and it wasn't crazy to think a few years back that they could win, you know, two series, you know, and be a top four seed and win 50 games. And that's a lot more. Look, this league, there's only one or two teams every year that can actually win the title. So, you know, if you're going to say that winning the title is the only thing that

you can be satisfied with, you're basically going to go lifetimes without them because we've seen, you know, just a few players and a few teams actually win them. But I just think now, and I felt this way, even the other night after they lost to the Hawks and the way they lost that game, that were really entering an era here that I didn't anticipate. I thought it was going to be a good run here. But we always knew the risk, Scott, right? With Wall, the way he plays, the speed being absolutely crucial, the speed and athleticism being absolutely crucial to his production. And the fact that he already had multiple surgeries on both knees, you know, even before this heel injury. And now the ruptured.

And they never did a good job. And they never did a good job of having a backup plan for him until Sataran's these last couple seasons. And they've always written him for heavy minutes, too. You know, they didn't do a good job of dialing him back, as he always promised to do. So, you know, it's a shame. It came down this way.

But again, I think this should be their wake-up call to be like, all right, we've got to change course here in a hurry. But, you know, again, it sure sounds like they're saying status quo. We'll find out, I guess. Yeah, I mean, that was before. Yeah, that was before this. I just don't think, I think Ted is very conservative when it comes to this stuff. I think he's loyal to a fault, as you've mentioned, but, you know, he's not going to take any deal for the

purposes of blowing it up. You know, they like Otto Porter. You know, they love Bradley Beal. So I'm sure they look at those two in some ways and say, all right, now we, you know, if John's out for a couple of years or maybe, you know, never going to be the same, we just got to go get. a third star in the draft somehow. And that's our future. That's what's your hope for. All right. Thanks. What's your next game? Tonight, G-Dubb at Smith Center. Oh, nice. 7 o'clock. Yeah, Mass and sports. Kid on GW, who was on my son's high school team last year, Mezzie Offram. They'll be rooting for him all year. He's getting some minutes.

GW is struggling, though. Not having a great season. But anyway, all right, I will talk to you soon. Thanks. All right. Thanks, Kevin. Take care. All right. We're going to get to Charlie Cassarly here in a moment, but first real quickly on Window Nation. Harley, Aaron, Eric, they listen to the podcast all the time. I mention this all the time, but if you like great entrepreneurial stories, Harley and Aaron have a great one. I mean, they started this thing essentially from scratch. They built it up into a huge company in the window space. And they're doing great. And they're doing great because, because they really understand what their customers want.

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show over the years and even on the podcast a couple of times, and that is former Redskins general manager, former Houston Texans general manager, Charlie Casserly. You know, I want to start before we get to some Redskins-related discussion about the Patriots. You know, you've been in this league now for Charlie, it's going to be coming up on 50 years, you know, here shortly, because I know you started in the 70s. Well, not exactly shortly, but we're over 40. Okay, yeah, well, we're over 40. But you know, you've been in this league for a long time now as a key figure in the league and as an analyst of this league. In a league designed for parity, designed in some way to prevent dynasties, how do you explain the Patriots? Belichick and Brady?

I know that's a stock answer, but, you know, I think what Brady has proven is his clutchability. I mean, interest, every Super Bowl, he's won it in the fourth quarter. that's a hell of an accomplishment. And he's not a flamboyant guy. So he doesn't quite get some of the publicity, some of these other quarterbacks do. But I think got there. But Belichick is certainly a huge part in the number one part of this. Because what he's been able to do is adapt to a free agent system.

Mnumer through it in different ways. Sometimes he's done it with trade. Sometimes he's signed some bigger players. Sometimes he's signed. will call retread players who didn't succeed the first time around, like a Mike Brable at Pittsburgh, and then all of a sudden Brable becomes a good player with him. The thing about Belichick is this,

and this to me is the most incredible part. And again, he's lost coaches. It doesn't make any difference. They still keep winning. They talk a lot about he's going to take away your best option. Well, he does take away your best option. But he does it continually. week after week, year after year, with different players.

And if you watch his teams, they improve as the year goes on, which is what should happen because players continually to hone their skills and get better. So what he does, he takes what players do best. And then he adapts to that and they concentrate on as the season goes on, so that's why the teams get better. Plus, the other thing, if you watch them, they're so technique good. You watch them play the run. They play it with leverage.

Their knees are bent low. They're, you know, underneath the pads of the other player. They're on the right shoulder. The cornerbacks, they continually get better as the season goes on. Why? Because of the technique coaching. So it's strategy and it's fundamentals that separate them ahead of everybody else. Because everybody else understands the same plan to beat people.

You know, you just said something. You said he does it with different players and his teams get better as the season goes on. That was Joe Gibbs, wasn't it? Sure. Yeah, and I think the other thing is conditioning. He said sometimes you have to translate what people are saying and when they say it. He talked about he brings up conditioning in one of the post-game interviews. And it's true.

They continually win in the fourth quarter. Atlanta just ran out of gas. Well, if Hager's didn't run out of gas, Pagra's never run out of gas. They're always a strong fourth quarter team and a strong team late in the season. And so conditioning is a big part. of it. That was a big part of it with the Gibbs teams. And I noticed in reading one of the clips, there was one sentence they talked about

on lifting. And one of the philosophies of Gibbs on lifting, and Dan Riley did it, he was a strength coach, was a lot of teams, they backed off during the season. Redskins didn't back off. Redskins stayed right there with it. So that's how they got better physically as the season went on. Other teams wore down because they backed off on the lifting. Redskins didn't back off on the lifting.

And Gibbs made it a priority in the schedule, the lifting part. of it. And it sounds like Belichick's done the same thing. In the conversation of the greatest coach of all time, is there even a debate anymore? Do you think Belichick is the greatest head coach in the history of the NFL? Well, I'm prejudiced, okay? After Joe Gibbs, okay? Yeah. So three championships in 10 years with three different quarterbacks, none of them in the Hall of Fame. It's hard to argue it. I mean, when you look at guys, I mean, Lombardi was certainly dominant for a stretch he was in.

but Belichick's had to do it in a tougher era where the players keep changing. But he has had the great quarterback. Now, how much of that greatness in the quarterback is him, meaning Belichick? That's arguable. Just as how much of Montana's greatness is Bill Walsh. You know, that's a good discussion. Is Brady the best quarterback you've ever seen? He's the winningest.

We know that. Is he the best? You know, I don't know if he's the best in the league because I'm Rush, this might be the best in the league. But this guy's got an ability within that framework for how they play to execute their system. And the fourth quarter, the guy is unbelievable. Super Bowl. So I'll give it to them and everybody else can have their arguments.

You've been a big part, you know, as we've already discussed, of an organization that worked, that won. From afar, is there any way, do you have a good? gut as to who's the most important to the success they've had? Like, is it more Kraft, more Belichick, or more Brady? I don't even know if you would think in those terms, but I was just curious in thinking back to the Redskins because, you know, there was, you know, the owner, there was Bobby Betherd, then there was you, and there was the great Hall of Fame coach. In this particular situation, could you rank them in terms of importance?

Well, I always put the head coach number one, okay, because he's not. He controls more factors than anybody else. He controls the strategy, the motivation, the discipline, how players are used. So the coach is the most critical. Now, obviously, you can point to situations where he've had a Hall of Fame coach, and he didn't do as well because he didn't have the support from the, you know, the personnel department, the general manager. It starts with ownership.

And, you know, number one, we've got to understand that the Patriots traded for Bill Belshach. Right. In other words, they went and hired Bill Belichick. and then they made a trade to make it legal. Okay, I mean, I'm throwing timelines on the window there. Yeah, remember. We all understand that, okay?

So Belichick knew where he was going. And so number one, they were smart enough to do that. I don't know if any other team had offered Belichick a head coaching job, except maybe Oakland, and I'm not even sure of that, but I think they did after he got fired by Cleveland. So, hey, give them, give the Kraft family tremendous credit right there. Then, obviously, I've talked about Belichael. Belichick's role, and then, you know, could he have won all these Super Bowls without Brady?

Who knows? You don't think so, but he has a winning record with the Patriots with Matt Castle and Garoppolo. Now, again, it's not a big... Sample size. Sample size, yeah, one season with Castle or 15 games with Castle, and then, you know, a few games with Garapolo. So, again, the point being that he has shown the ability to win with other quarterbacks. So whether he wins six Super Bowls, I don't, maybe probably not, but I wouldn't bet against him winning something. How long can they do this for?

Well, in a sense, it's year to year because, you know, Brady's an uncharted territory right now. And he has been for a while. And it's hard to bet against them, but, you know, Mother Nature is going to catch up at some point. At some point this year, you know, he did look older. He did not look older in the last five games they played. The Jets and the Buffalo were the last two ready. the season games. And he looked excellent there, by the way.

Okay? And then he got on a run here. Now, Sunday, Wade Phillips had him in a tough spot many times with changing up the coverages and what they were doing. So, you know, they jumped on, first of all, I changed things up, which that's what you do against Brady. But they took away all the short throws to the running backs. That's a big part of his game.

And they were smart enough to do that. And they took away Gronk until the end of the game when the Patriots out maneuvered him with their formations. So, and Edelman had a big game, but, you know, as great a game as they had, he only scored 13 points. Right. And you're going to win games if you scored 13 points or be the other team. Yeah, I mean, going into that game, if you're a Rams fan and you're, you're analyzing the game and you say, Wade Phillips is going to hold the Patriots to 13 points, you just, you know, you, you give the Rams the Lombardi right there. The, I don't know that I've ever asked you this before, as many times as I've had you on, But, you know, when Joe Gibbs retired, he retired just as NFL free agency in the salary cap era was beginning.

Do you think if Gibbs had stayed that the Redskins would have continued to have success during the free agency salary cap era in the same way they had it beforehand? There's no question it would have been successful because Joe Gibbs would have adapted. We would have gone through a down period, which we did, only because there was some. things there. When we, our payroll was over 50 million. In 90s, yeah. Yeah, in 92, or going into 93.

And then we had like a number of free agents. So, and I had a way to get him signed if we got them signed during the season. And it didn't happen. So, but we were going to have to, you know, the salary cap was going to be $32 million. And we were going to have to get a lot of the team. Now, I would never bet against Joe Gibbs as a coach. and his staff ever. So I had confidence in them.

But the other thing I heard is they had a rule, called the Rooney Rule. And what it was is if your record was at a certain point, and we had won a playoff game the year before, see. Right. So we weren't allowed, I think we were allowed to sign one free agent, and then we couldn't sign any other free agents until we lost one. So you're always in the whole signing players.

And if you go back in our history, it's really amazing. in 76, there was free agency. That's how the Wiggins. The Riggins. But they also got Calvin Hill and Gene Fugan. Right. And I think I got one or two other players. And that helped them.

And then along comes, you know, the strike. And we obviously gives it a great job with the strike. Then here comes the USFL. Okay. And we ace the USFL. So just when we needed a splurge there, we got it. you've got a boost there. And we outmaneuvered a lot of teams in that.

In 87, we outmaneuvered everybody on the strike. And then here comes Plan B, and we ate's Plan B. You know, we picked up a lot of players that played for us in Plan B. Well, now we need another boost, and here comes Free Agency, and it's blocked. We can't use free agency. So we spent no signing bonus money. We signed some guys that, you know, it was kind of the guys you get for no signing bonus money. They didn't help us.

So I wouldn't bet against Gibbs, but we were going to have to go. reload at that point in time. We were in the worst position of any team in the league, and we knew it, too. The USFL, you just mentioned that, and it just made me think of, you know, Gary Clark and Ricky Sanders as examples. Was there a USFL player that you desperately wanted that you didn't get? Do you remember? No, I don't remember because it was kind of a closed situation, because you could draft them during the regular draft. So really, between the regular draft and the supplemental draft, I don't know if there wasn't anybody that it was left over. I don't. I don't remember us sitting there.

We wanted to kick her in the first round. We were picking late in that supplemental draft seat. So we wanted the kicker to compete for the position. And then we just took the best player on the board when it came to Clark and Clarence Verdant. All right. Let's actually one more question about Sunday. Do you have any idea what happened with Todd Gurley over the final two games?

No, and I haven't asked our reporters about it. I'm just starting on to the draft right. now. Yeah. So, no, I don't. You know, we all think that there was some kind of injury there that they, that had to limit them. And, you know, which the league should investigate that because that should have been on the injury report if there was anything at all. If you've got to hang there, you've got to have it on the injury report the way they're, how tough they are that.

I just don't understand because he did break off a couple of runs in the game. And the Wingland was committed to stop the run. So, you know, what's going to happen is if you're committed to run it, you're going to strike out, strike out, strike out, then you're going to pop some. And with Gurley in the game, you could get on a roll. And you really only needed one drive. That's all you needed as an offense as the game turned out. And so, you know, the best defensive girl is he's on the bench because he takes away

the past game, the screen game to him, and the big plays, DJ Anderson's a nice back, but he's in between the tackles. That's what he is. Now, his problem is in his career, he can't stay healthy. But what you saw out of C.J. Anderson, everybody in the league knew he could do that. It's why he was on the street because he got hurt. He couldn't stay healthy, but on a short term, sure, he's good. But he's easy to defense.

Inside the tackles, that's what you got. You know, I'm just, I'm wondering if the explanation is just this simple, and it may be an embarrassing one for Sean in hindsight, you know, after what we saw, but that he just had this gut feel of going with the hot hand. And C.J. Anderson, you know, was basically over the final two regular season games and the playoff game against the Cowboys, he was averaging over five yards of carry. You know, I mean, remember, like I always think about the team that I have rooted for my entire life, the team that you worked for, you know, Gibbs went with the hot hand with Timmy Smith. He went with the hot hand to a

certain degree with Ricky Irvins when, you know, the starting running backs had carried the load all year. Now, none of those backs were Todd Gurley. So that's where the analogy sorts of sort of falls flat on its face, but I just have this sense that if Gurley wasn't injured, maybe McVeigh just had this sense that C.J. Anderson was the hot hand. That's probably a very logical point to make. I thought of that too. And it's almost like, okay, that would be the logical point. It's not the right one. And I understand why he would do it. 100 years ago when the Lakers were playing the Celtics and they're way back and they Chamberlain's on the bench and all of a sudden they come back and now they're in the last

minute or so to win the game and Chamberlain still on the bench. So, you know, those things can happen. Yeah, game seven in the forum. All right. Would you ever, as it relates to the Redskins, would you ever consider the so-called nuclear option, Charlie, the blowing it up right now, taking Alex Smith's hit all in the. by releasing him, cutting and trading other players that you don't think are going to be around and be helpful to you when you're ready to win, you know, if you're projecting that you're going to win in

2020, 2021, et cetera. Would you ever think about that option in 2019 right now in this offseason? You know, Kevin, it's interesting. When you're in television, you darn well would think about it and do it. Okay. When you're living it, it's a little harder. Now Cleveland did it. Okay, and all the people that did it basically aren't there anymore, except Dependesto. And I'm not sure exactly what his role is. And he's in the background. So, but they're closer to that than they are to winning because of the quarterback. Now, they can maneuver a quarterback in money, but it would cost them and hurt them going forward if they wanted to try and sign Teddy Bridgewater, okay, and free agency.

So, you know, I don't know what's going to happen with Folls. My gutters, you know, they'll end up being a free agent. But so that's kind of where they are. I think it's a discussion you need to have. I don't see them doing it, but they're closer to that and then they are to winning. Just because of this, injuries. How many guys of their players can't stay healthy? And they're not going to get healthier as they go.

get older, they're going to lose more time. So that's been their biggest problem there, is the good players not being able to stay healthy. And that's not going to change. So netting it out, it's something that you think should be considered, but for the people involved, because of what you just described with Cleveland,

a lot of those people are no longer there. It's just a really hard path to take because more likely than not, it could cost you your job. Yeah, and, you know, probably the best example, is Philadelphia 76 is with Sam Hinky. Right. I mean, I mean, Sam had the ownership back him for a long time. And they just blew it up and go, let's go win nine games and things like that.

And he had a master plan of acquiring draft choices, drafting players and having them play in Europe and build for the future. And it worked. At the end, he wasn't there. And I know you don't want to think about that, but that, that's hard for ownership and the fans to take. And the fans in Philly were very patient on this one. But I think what happened is the owner decided, you know,

we've got to find a way to win some games here. And he began to bring people in, and that was the end of Sam Hinky. So as long as everyone will buy into the thing and stay with everybody involved, they need to think about it. You should do it, really. Because Alex Smith, to me, is done.

I don't know how you count on the guy going forward. at that point in time. So you've got to get a quarterback now, and let's go and start rebuilding. That doesn't mean you've got everything, but part of it is maybe nobody wants to take these players, too. Cleveland didn't make all the right decisions. They let go a bunch of free agents they should have kept,

and they could have still done everything they did. Well, it's not even a conversation, except for the fact that you've got a quarterback that's a massive cap hit that more likely than not is out. for next year and maybe beyond that. And that's what creates what you've described as a conversation that you should have. Yeah. Now, the thing you have to sit there and say, okay, who do we have that we can trade?

I'm not sure they've got any value in players that are going to trade. Trent Williams. Well, we'll see what we can take at this point in this career now. Ryan Carrigan. Carrigan is a legitimate guy. Carrigan's a legitimate guy. then you have to see what you're going to get. And if you're not going to get, if somebody's going to give you the 25th pick in the first round,

I'd keep Brian Carrigan. So that's what I would do. Because free agency, acquiring money in free agency is good, but your batting average in free agency is maybe 50% or something. So you have to look at those things too. You can empty the well and have nothing in it too. What about the quarterbacks in this draft? Everybody, you know what all the Redskins fans are thinking if they're even thinking anymore

because so many of them have checked out, unfortunately here over the last few years. But at 15 overall, is there a quarterback, you know, a Murray, a Locke, a Haskins, a Daniel Jones, a Greer, that you like a lot and that they should consider it 15 if that quarterback falls to that spot? You know, I'm still working on that. I just got started. I mean, I like Murray. For all the reasons, I think everybody who's seen him, I think the guy's got arm strength, he's got athletic ability, but more importantly, it looks like he has vision.

In other words, he could see, find guys open and throw it to him. You know, I think Haskins will be gone. I don't know that he gets past the Giants. I don't think Dave Gettelman will take a 5'10 quarterback. That's 185 pounds. I think he'll take the bigger, stronger guy. Askins is kind of a raw product, but everything I've seen and I'm like in them. I think they'll just grow and get better.

The next guy to me is Daniel Jones and Duke. The positives, though, I love his vision and anticipation. He's outstanding watching the tape. My question is, this guy peaked with the coaching he's got with Cutcliffe. He looks like Peyton Manning and sometimes in his movement. So I'm sure Peyton has had an influence on him because Peyton and Cutcliffe are close. after that, I'm still not, I've got a gap. The Missouri guy locked really played well this year in the past.

He hadn't played as well with his accuracy. I just need to see more tape to him. I love Greer, but he executes their spread system perfectly. And then the question is, can he execute any other system? Because he's so perfect in that one. So, you know, I'm still working through that part of it. and at 15, you're not going to get any of the first three guys. So they're going to be gone.

On Murray, that's your issue. On Murray, you know, the thing that you said, I think, is interesting, and that is that you think he's got good vision and good anticipation, which is what, you know, the great quarterback coaches always talk about that they look for. You've got to have vision, you've got to be able to throw with anticipation. And that was something that Griffin did not do. You know, he didn't have the vision. didn't throw with anticipation. In comparing the two, do you like Murray better?

Then who? Then Griffin. Oh, it's not even close. I'm not even close to. So RG3 ran a spread system, and every now and then you'd see him after where he made a decision going from one to two. It just wasn't part of the offense. And I think what I bet on, the Redskins bet on is, you know, this guy was a smart guy. and academically smart. And he wasn't tested with his football smarts with the system because it was so simple. And you saw flashes that, okay, we can coach him into it.

That's the problem with the spread offense. Now, what's happened is, like in Kansas City, they've adapted the spread offense and they're playing in the NFL. And Kansas City does it without the quarterback running. Yeah, he runs around, but they don't run the option game like Baltimore did. Okay. You know, Lamar Jackson's not going to work in the option game. it's not going to work in the NFL.

So you're going to have to be a passing quarterback. And then what happened is it showed in the playoffs eventually with San Diego. So being able to defend him. So Murray has the throwing ability. He's much farther along than RG3. All right. Last one, and I'll let you run. And I appreciate the time so much.

You talk to Redskinned fans all the time. I know that people approach you all the time. You talk to people in the media who are Redskinned fans like me all the time. Have you ever, Charlie, seen anything like the venom directed towards the Redskins right now, in particular Bruce Allen, but have you ever seen anything like it? I'd say no, but people got after my ass there too. And not like, no, no, no, no, not like that this is not even comparable. I don't even personally remember at any point as a fan of the team when you were the general manager,

putting pressure or thinking that Charlie Casserly wasn't the right guy. And, you know, there were a couple of drafts there. You know this in the 90s that weren't the best ever, but the trade with New Orleans settled all of that, you know, but no, none of that was in play when you were the general manager. I think the difference is, and I have to agree with, hey, I screwed up someone and got criticized for it, and hey, I deserved it. but I think what's different is social media, which I never operated in social media,

and that's really the difference. And it happens to not only the Redskins, but other teams and people and organizations like that in different cities. And I think that's where the differences. So the answer is, yes, to your question, but social media has a lot to do with it. Well, you're being people, voices that never were heard are heard now. Yeah, you're being humble because no one ever felt about the organization. when you were there the way they feel about it right now. And I'm just wondering if there's a solution.

You know, what is the solution? You know, I often say and have said, you know, I don't want a good season. I want a good franchise. You know, those are two different things because the league is designed for every team, regardless of how they function, to have the occasional good season. But, you know, the best organizations are the ones that have sustained success. I've almost given up on the sustained success, the good organization thing, and I'm hoping for a good season here and there. What is the solution here?

I mean, when a Redskin fan comes up and says to you, Charlie, are you available to come back? And I know you get that. But really, what is the solution? Winning on a consistent basis. So the next question is, how do you feel the people there can win on a consistent basis? I think they can. Their last couple of drafts run by Doug Williams have been very good. it takes time to work your way through that.

Okay, and the Alex Smith, hey, that's a kick in the butt there. It really is because, you know, he was a functional quarterback who was getting better every game. He improved every single game, understanding and execute the offense. And I still don't think they would have won the division because I think at the end of the season, Philly and Dallas just got, they surpassed them, even with Alex Smith. playing well and the defense playing well. But I do think that they would have had a winning record and been a contender for a wild card somewhere in there at the end of the season.

So that's a huge loss now because you basically are starting over a quarterback without the money you're doing. So that hurts. But I saw light at the end of the tunnel. And it wasn't an oncoming train, okay? Yeah, it feels like one now that's already run everybody over. And, you know, the Alex Smith. injury was unfortunate, but I felt, and I think you just said the same. I felt like they had a good

record, but they weren't necessarily a good team. Maybe they were on the way to becoming one, but to your point, Dallas and Philly were getting better as well, and they still had Philly twice in Dallas once to go. And, you know, a lot of people like to talk about six and three. The truth is they were headed to six and four with Alex Smith on that, you know, on that Sunday against Houston. they were down to two scores and hadn't proved in any game yet that they could come from behind. But anyway, you think the Alex Smith era is pretty much over. Like even if he were healthy enough to play a year and a half from now that potentially he wouldn't be the same player. Well, it would be hard to say that.

I mean, it would be 35, 36 years old or something at that point in time. And people say he's young because he's missed time. Well, he's missed more time now. So I guess he got younger. but it's hard to I don't see how you can plan on that and you know so you've got to go get a quarterback I think

and you've got to move on and then you know so you see how you handle the thing financially that's to me if I was running it that's where my mind would be and I think that's where their mind is too I lied I got one more for you Tommy and I got into this big argument yesterday on the podcast and Tommy said about the New Orleans

about the Roby Coleman missed call in the New Orleans game he said if he were Sean Payton he would have taken his team off the field and I said well if I were the commissioner or you know or the other 30 league owners I would have forfeited you on the spot and so that it would have never happened again and he would Tommy was serious he thought the call was so bad that to get the attention of the league and to delay the game that Peyton should have taken his team off the field we've never seen anything like that happen what would have happened you know I don't know what rule would be with the officials, whether they would, you know, it depends on the Tokyo, you take the game off the field, I don't know what you do, delay a game or something

like that at that point in time, or, you know, penalize them for not playing. So there must be some kind of rule to cover that. I'm sure if they put him, sent him to the locker room, the game, they would have suspended the game and forfeited the game at that point in time and faced some kind of massive penalty from the league. Right. They've already been penalized in New Orleans. That's right.

He's already been suspended for a year. Maybe banned for life or something like that. And the team could have been crucified with draft choices. And then what would happen? Nothing. You'd be at the same point you are right now. To change it, it has to be a vote of the owners. So it's not like you can mandate anything.

And guess what? The owners aren't going to care if New Orleans walks off the field. They're going to make their own decision. So nothing would have happened to change it. Is it the worst call in the history of football? not even close. Thank you. Watching it, it was an incorrect call,

watching it in real time, not television time, real time on game tape, I could see what they saw. They were wrong, okay, but I could see it because in real time, it's pretty close to a bang, bang, bang play. And the ball is high, all right? Bang, bang play.

And how many times have we heard in the playoffs, let them play? Let them play. Well, they were letting them play that day, too. I mean, that was the MO that day. Right. So the league will never admit it, but we always felt, and as teams, that when they got to the playoffs, they didn't want penalties to decide the game, so they let them play.

And maybe it was a little let them play there, too. I mean, I spent a time just, it was a bad, it was a terrible blown call. No one would disagree with that. But we have had calls over the course of the years in postseason games, you know, going back to Drew Pearson, clearly pushing off Nate Wright on the Hail Mary. Cowboys went to the Super Bowl that year. Stabler got an extra opportunity against the Patriots of the year they won the Super Bowl on a terrible call. The Music City miracle was it. I mean, we've had so many of these in Charlie over the years, you know what they've done?

They've enhanced the legend of the league. These games have their own labels and names to them. It's never hurt the league. I thought the reaction was just over the top to what happened in New Orleans a couple of weeks back. It is, but again, that's the era we live in. If you take it even out of sports, there's no reaction to almost anything nowadays. So that's just the era we're living, I think. I appreciate it, as always.

And we'll catch up soon. Maybe before the draft, I always love catching up with you. Thanks so much. good nothing talk to you later now it's always great to catch up with charlie caserly i love his insight and i love some of the conversation about um how it worked back in the gibbs era and you you just hear the reverence um the respect uh for joe gibbs from all of those guys including bobby bethard and you know the relationship between bobby and joe at the very end wasn't you know super tight but um it's just incredible what they all believed joe

was able to do. He was basically able to take yours and beat you or take his and beat you. He just always figured it out. And there are a lot of similarities between, you know, the Patriots, look, not in terms of the volume of winning Super Bowls and participating in Super Bowls in the length of the run, not to mention that it's been done in the salary cap era. But the similarities in which Gibbs always figured out new ways, and it wasn't always the same way. It wasn't a uniform. way. One year, they were a dominant run team, and then in the ripping year, they were a throw the ball deep team, you know, and throw it all over the park team. And he did it with different quarterbacks and different running backs. And even though the hogs were constant as a brand,

the actual players, you know, they changed. I mean, you had Lechay come in in later years. You had Shloreth as part of it. You had that stretch with R. C. Tealman. I mean, it wasn't always Bostic, Grimm, Jacoby, Stark and May. That was the first two years, and then it started to change a little bit as you went forward, and Gibbs still always figured it out. I got a couple of other things, including an interesting Tom Brady-Belichick interaction at the end of the game that I'll get to in a moment, but I wanted to mention launch workplaces. If you are looking for office space, you're working from home right now, and you're looking for a place that's quieter where you can do more work,

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thing, just tell them that it's essentially like bookmarking your favorite website. You know, if you subscribe, you're not paying for anything, you're not giving any information, you're just bookmarking, in essence, the podcast. so that it shows up in your library every day. The most recent one will show up. And that helps us, too, from a monetization standpoint, just to be brass tax completely transparent on that. We can monetize this, and we're starting to do it very effectively,

but we can do it even better if you subscribe. You know, if you bookmark it to use, I think his name was Steve, to use Steve's description. Steve, thanks for that. A couple of other quick things. I also got this other tweet from Ed on the conversation that Tommy and I, I guess, were having yesterday about the Patriots run. And he said, while I agreed the Pat's 20-ish-year run is the best in history of the NFL

or maybe of all of sports, he said, I would pick the 78 Steelers or the 93 Cowboys to beat them in an individual game. In other words, their sustainability is their legacy. Others have been more dominant in a vacuum. I completely agree with that. the way, that 20th year run at this point is only 18 years. We still have two to three years left of this run, which could include another Super Bowl or two. But that's just a minor point. His bigger point, first of all, I don't know that the 93 Cowboys are my all-time Cowboy team.

I think the 77 Cowboys personally were the best Cowboys, was the best Cowboy team I ever saw. Certainly defensively, that team was done. dominant. And, you know, their postseason run blowing out Chicago, blowing out Minnesota, and then blowing out the Broncos in the Super Bowl. And by the way, in those three games, all right, forcing, I don't remember exactly what the number was, but I think if you go back, you'll find that they forced in three games like 20 turnovers with their defense that, you know, that had Randy White and Harvey Martin and two tall Jones and just dominant players on defense. It would be a fun matchup against the 07 Patriots. The 07 Patriots are the team. Yes, I think that the 07 Patriots are the best team in the Belichick-Bradie era,

but they didn't win Super Bowl. They lost to the Giants. But that team was dominant. No doubt, that team was a dominant team. To be honest, but it would be hard for me to just off the top of my head rank the Patriot teams, but that would seem to be the best in the one that if you put up against the 77 Cowboys or the 76 Steelers. Like, I think the 76 Steelers may have been the best Steelers of all time. They did not win the Super Bowl. They had, you know, they had injuries at quarterback, but defensively, it may have been their best season.

Go back and find out how many shutouts the 76 Steelers had, because I think it's, I think it may still be the NFL record for, for shutouts. But, you know, the 91 Redskins, the 85 Bears. the 89-90-49ers, hell the 94-49ers, the team that crushed San Diego in the Super Bowl. You know, off the top of my head going through, to me, the 72 dolphins are obviously the only team to ever go start to finish undefeated with a 14-game regular season. But I don't consider them to be the greatest team in NFL history. I think some of the teams that we just mentioned that didn't win it were great. What did the 76 dealers have?

Shutouts. Did you look that up? What were you going to say? You were going to say something else. I was going to say if you were only looking at the Super Bowl winning team for the Patriots, that O-4 team was really, really good as well. Yes, the O-4 team was a great football team. The O-4 team is the team that beat Philadelphia.

They beat Philadelphia in the Super Bowl. So that was their right. So that was a very good team. What was that regular season team? That was a dominant team. Yeah, that was like a 13 and 3 or 14 and 2 team. The 76 Steelers had five shutouts. Is that the most in NFL history?

I'm not. In the modern era. You'd have to think it is. That 76 team for the Steelers, I don't know if Pittsburgh fans would feel the same, but I just remember that team in that season. And that was the one year Oakland actually got Pittsburgh in the playoffs. They got them in the,

AFC championship game in Oakland, and I think it was a 24 to 7 game. Bradshaw was back at that point, but they did play some of those games, including the playoff game where they won in Memorial Stadium against the Colts. That was the day that that plane crashed in the upper deck of Memorial Stadium after the game had ended. I can't remember if they played that particular game with or without Bradshaw. It was. was their defense that was great, but Mike Kruzek, who was actually a local guy, started half of their games that season, I think. I think he started half of their games, and so they were not the same team offensively during the course of the season, and therefore they did not end up with home field

advantage in the AFC championship game. In fact, they played that first playoff game in Baltimore on the road and blew the Colts out. That was a Bert Jones Colts team, and that was a blowout Steelers win. I can't remember if Bradshaw was back for that game, and I'm trying to get the information in front of me. Okay, here it is. Here's their postseason. 40 to 14.

That was the game in Baltimore, December 19th, 1976. You know what's funny is when you go back and look at these playoff games from the 70s, the dates. You know, the regular season basically ended like mid-December. Right. You know, because this was a divisional round playoff game. They didn't have a wild card round. in 1976. It was four teams. It was three division winners because there were only three divisions in

each conference and then a wild card team. So there were four teams per conference in the playoffs. But the Steelers went to Baltimore and won 40 to 14 and Bradshaw was back at that point. And Bradshaw that season in 76 started eight games. So that means Mike Cruzeck started six games that year, not seven. And that was a dominant Steelers team. If Bradshaw doesn't get hurt, that 76 team, I think, becomes the all-time great Steelers team and maybe the greatest defensive team of all time if the 85 bears aren't. And the 85 bears, you know, I know that the legend of the 85 bears in some ways gets to

the point where some of you think that it's exaggerated, but it's not. that team was just unbeatable. You could not move the football against the 85 bears. You couldn't do it. The one game they lost was to Marino and the Marks Brothers, Clayton and Dooper on a Monday night game in the Orange Bowl. And back then, most of you will not remember this. The Orange Bowl for dolphin games, for spectacular big games at night in particular, it was a tough place to go in and win.

That wasn't just their only loss of the season. It was the only time any team offensively moved the ball against them. They just didn't give up points or yards that year. I'm looking they had that particular season, one, two shutouts in the regular season, two in the playoffs. They shut out the Giants, 21-0, and then the Rams, 24-0. the Rams were a one-dimensional offensive team that year with Eric Dickerson. They had Dieter Brock was their quarterback.

He was a CFL quarterback. And then they blew out the Patriots 46 to 10 in the Super Bowl. But anybody that thinks that the Bears, the 85 Bears, sometimes that the legend of the 85 bears somehow distorts reality, it doesn't. I think that team and the 76 Steelers and. Hell, I think the Ravens team, certainly in 2000, thinking of some of the greatest defensive teams in history. Yeah, the 85 Bears are still there. Anyway, I got sidetracked.

I wanted to get to this piece of video that I saw early this morning from NFL Films and the Super Bowl. It was the situation after what I thought was a bad spot of the third downplay that set up the fourth and like an inch or two for the Patriots at the end of the game when they were up 10 to 3. And the decision to kick the field goal. I was thinking in the moment, kick the field goal. The game's over. It's a 41-yarder.

Kick the field goal. You know, there's probably not that much risk on a sneak either. But if you don't get the sneak, now you've really put yourself in a bind. And same goes for the field goal if you miss the field goal. And yes, Gistowski had missed a field goal earlier in the game from, 46 yards out. But NFL films picked up this conversation between Brady and Belichick on the sideline as Brady comes over and basically convinces Bill Belichick to kick the field goal. You go on the field goal?

We're good on the field goal. Forty yards are games over. All right. Let's go. Field goal, Steve. Let's go field goal. That's pretty interesting. You know, Belichick is, you know, and his story, staff or graded everything. I still think they aired prior to the Malcolm Butler interception in the Super Bowl a few years ago against Seattle. I just think that that was a clock management error not calling a timeout. It was almost as if, you know, people who said that he shouldn't have called a timeout believed that he had a premonition that Malcolm Butler was going to intercept the pass. That somehow, like he knew that if he rushed them,

they were going to throw the slant and Malcolm Butler was going to intercept it. Verses like he was going to rush them into a play that didn't score a touchdown, but how did he really predict the turnover? He should have called the timeout in that Super Bowl. Anyway, this particular decision was sort of a six and one half dozen the other call. I mean, you can easily justify sneaking it, you know, an inch or two to end the game, which that would have ended the game as well. but it was a short chip shot field goal too.

And so Brady went to the sideline and Bill wasn't sure. And Brady says, you know, no, it's 40-yarder. Kick the 40-yarder game over. And they did it. And it ended up being, I think, a 42-yarder officially in the books. And that ended the game. One last thing for today. Actually, two things.

Number one is this. The loss that the Lakers took last night to the Pacers, the biggest loss of LeBron's career, a 42-point loss. You know, I didn't see the game. I was watching what I think most of the country was probably watching last night, and that was the State of the Union, which I did watch, and all of the banter and talking heads afterwards. I always enjoy all of that.

But anyway, LeBron took a 42-point loss last night against Indiana in a game in which, by the way, when Brandon Ingram went to the free throw line, the Pacers fans were chanting. LeBron's going to trade you. LeBron's going to trade you. LeBron and the Lakers looked completely lost, and you know what? They deserve it.

This trade deadline thing is out of control. I don't know any reasonable person that isn't off put at least a little by what's happened here over the last week with Kyrie Irving suggesting he wants, once out of Boston, with Anthony Davis basically trying to dictate a trade. You know, the trade deadline and the NBA is entertainment year-round. It's become that. But in the middle of a season for, you know, basically this week of basketball of the last week to really get derailed in terms of the

games being important, because they're not. The only thing that's important, the only storylines you're reading about are the, you know, the potential trades, prior to the trade deadline. And I know that there's some excitement in that, but it's confined to just a few teams and a few players that will actually make a difference. And to me, the fact that the Lakers, that the reporting on this Lakers' Pelicans, you know,

discussion has been so prominent. You know, and the Lakers have so many young players that are being rumored to be a part of the deal. They've looked awful. and I'm glad. I'm glad it's derailed them a little bit here. They deserve it. You know, there could have been a way for the Lakers to be involved without it being such an absolute, you know, show. It's become a show, this trade for Anthony Davis, and what's involved, and where's he going to end up, and what are the Lakers going to have to give up, and what are the Pelicans going to accept,

and what are the Lakers going to look like, and who's going and who isn't? and they've looked terrible. How the hell can Luke Walton coach this team right now? Like, how is it possible for Luke Walton to keep a bunch of young players with LeBron and with Rondo and with Lance Stevenson? I understand there's some veterans on that team. Did you hear LeBron's advice after last night? Young players stay off social media.

That's great. Except do you really think they're going to take your advice? Do you really think that they're not going to be reading every single? single report that comes out from, you know, Wohnerowski or Zach Lowe or any of the NBA people on ESPN or any of the other sites talking about what the Pelicans, what the Lakers have just recently offered. This is really turned into a complete shit show. And the Lakers now have lost, they lost to the Warriors in a game that LeBron didn't even play in. And he came back against the Clippers. I think they've lost three of four or four or five.

somewhere in that neighborhood. Last night, embarrassingly so, to the Pacers, you know, in a game in which they're playing guys like Coosma and Ingram and who else young in that game last night? That's been Josh Hart, Caldwell Pope, all of these guys. You know who I really like, by the way? And I love him coming out in the draft. Mo Wagner. I thought he was going to be a good pro. He had a really good game the other day against the Warriors. Anyway, that was just a slip in there of something that I wanted to mention. But I just don't like this trade deadline thing in the NBA, I think is off-putting. It's not entertaining.

And I'm an NBA fan. I want the games, I want these teams to stay, you know, as currently constructed. I want to see a season play out. I mean, what's the point of even watching the first 50 games of a season? if a team that looks like they're not really a contender, but maybe a playoff team all of a sudden becomes an NBA championship contender after a trade. And really, we're not even talking about an NBA championship contender because nobody's going to beat the Warriors best in a best of seven.

I just, I'm over the trade deadline, and maybe it's in part because my team never participates. Yeah, I was going to say, if the Wizards are constantly involved, you'd love it. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. I'm going to finish up the show with this. Real quick, before you finish up the show, I just wanted to throw something in here.

Well, Maryland just stole a quarterback from Florida State on National Signing Day, four-star quarterback from Louisiana. Really? Yeah. What's his name? Lance, I believe, is Legendre. He's apparently a dual-threat quarterback. He's a four-star guy and is being described as a bigger, stronger version of Piggy.

Well, anybody's going to be bigger than Piggy. But that's awesome. Good for Mike Loxley. Good for Maryland. You know what? Cassim Hill, this isn't a knock on you. You've got a lot of talent. You've had back-to-back ACL injuries. I mean, Maryland needs a quarterback in 2019. I mean, can you count on Kasim Hill to come back and be... I don't think he's going to be ready, at least not for... Definitely not for summer. I don't know if he's going to be ready for week one. Maryland's got a big game. We mentioned this earlier in the show with Scott Jackson. They got a big game tonight. There are one and a half point under. dog to a team that's slumping in Nebraska. I actually don't think that lines that wrong. Nebraska is very high, considered to be very good in all of the Ken Palm, et cetera, metrics, and they've had a tough stretch here, and this is a tough place to play. Believe it or not, Lincoln, Nebraska for basketball is a tough place to play. They've got a great arena, and it seems like every single time Maryland's played there, Aaron, it has been a packed house

and a raucous, you know, environment. Isaac Copeland injured as well so another team big Big Ten team that's having trouble with injuries God the Big Ten's crazy right now All right I wanted to finish with this This was a very very well-written well-thought-out Letter to the editor in the Washington Post Ed Quebec of Potomac Maryland Boy Ed a hell of a job with this

Well-written I'm going to read it It's in regards to Jordan McNair's death and all of the investigation and the recent reporting about all of the money that various people earned. And he writes, regarding the January 31st sports article, University of Maryland spent $1.57 million on the probe. Mr. Kuback writes,

who is being held responsible for the death of Jordan McNair? As the article pointed out, McNair's death seems to be big business for those associated with the university. The former football coach walked away with millions. that would be DJ Durkin. The team's strength coach resigned after getting a lump sum payment in excess of $310,000. The athletic director and university president, who was going to retire but has delayed that,

each keep contracts that pay millions. A new football coach has been hired at a salary of more than $2.5 million. Also lawyers, judges, ex-politicians, journalists, and even a Redskins executive, that would be Doug Williams, have made between $30,000 and $6,000. $6,000 investigating the football program. In total, $1.57 million was spent developing a 200-page investigative report, a report that had its major finding, keeping the football coach thrown out by the president 24 hours after the publication.

All this before McNair's family has received a penny. Seems everyone is getting paid handsomely for a tragic death And where is a good chunk of the money coming from? Maryland taxpayers and university students, the very people who are the least responsible for the current situation. I read that in the post and just thought Ed Kubek from Potomac, Maryland, did a really nice job of summing it up. The only thing I would say is that $1.57 million for an investigation

is actually on the cheap compared to other schools who have had serious investigations, not apples to apples investigations, but you're talking about North Carolina spending 18 million into the academic probe. You're talking about Michigan State already into the tens of millions, and we know what Penn States ended up being, it ended up being close to $25 million in costs of investigating the Sandusky situation. Again, not exactly apples to apples in terms of what happened in those places versus what happened with a very tragic death of a young football player. But 1.57 million actually isn't that much money.

But to Mr. Kuback's point, and what a beautiful writer he is, it is, as of now, the McNairns haven't gotten anything. And everybody else seems to have gotten paid. And it's just ironic, isn't it, that $1.57 million gets paid out for an investigative report. and then that report is thrown out by the president 24 hours after receiving it. Now, if you want to say what a waste of money, like if all along they needed the result to be to fire the football coach, and they thought that that's what the findings would produce.

But if all along they had no desire to actually accept the findings of the report, why spend the $1.57 million to begin with? Now we do know that there was a tremendous media backlash to the suggestion that Durkin should stay, and we know that Wallace Lowe and the university reacted to that PR backlash, which at the time I said you should ignore the PR backlash. Anyway, just wanted to read that. I don't know who Mr. Quebec is,

but it was very well written. It seems like a smart guy. Might even be a decent golfer. Just not a good gambler, from what I've been told. Anyway, have a great day. Aaron was great today. I loved catching up with Charlie Casterly. Hope you enjoyed that.

Scott Jackson as well. Tommy's back tomorrow.