The Kevin Sheehan Show - Wall, Westbrook, & RG3

Episode Date: December 3, 2020

Kevin and Thom today talking about the big Wall for Westbrook trade. They also discussed the Ravens-Steelers game and the woeful performance by RG3. They also discussed the state of the Steelers moving towards Monday's matchup with Washington.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. Porter can't find anybody. He gives it to all. Working against Bradley for three. John, whoa! What a shot.

You talk about a pressure shot. That was it. That was John Wall's signature moment from his nine-year career in Washington. That game six, Tommy winner, game winner to beat the Celtics to force a seventh and deciding game in the 2017 Eastern Conference semifinals. The career here, whether you loved it, hated it or somewhere in between John Wall's career is over. Tommy's with me today. Cooley will be with me

tomorrow. And if you missed his film breakdown from the Dallas game a week ago, he had very interesting insight on Alex Smith's game, so I would urge you to go back and listen to the show from yesterday, the beginning of that film breakdown about Alex Smith's performance, where Cooley described the performance as very, very averaged against Alice. Anyway, this was not a shocker, Tommy, because it was reported a couple of weeks ago. I had Tommy Shepard on the show.

He didn't deny that there were discussions. but still when it hit last night, man, I was like, wow, like it's over with John Wall. And then on top of it, one of my all-time favorite players is coming to Washington. And oh, by the way, wants to come to Washington, which is even more remarkable. He apparently, according to Woj, Adrian Wojnerowski, who broke the news, he was the one that he and his agent got the talk started again yesterday because he wanted out and he wanted to come to D.C. And meantime, by the way, Woj reported this morning that Hardin had a preference to play with John Wall over Russell Westbrook. Anyway, I've got a long,

you know, not long, but a medium-length, you know, sort of reaction to this. But I'll let you start it off. Well, it was a wow moment. Even, I mean, you know, there were reports that John Wall wanted to be traded. And he wanted out. because he, for I don't know what reason, other than the speculation that it had become, the perception that this had become Bradley Beals team, and that was something he couldn't live with. So it reported he wanted out,

but still, I'm Russell Westbrook, and you know how I feel about him, I still recognize he's one of the best players of his time. Yes. I mean, this is an MVP. This is a guy who's been all NBA, eight times. This is everything that John

Wall thought he was. Okay? John Wall was always complaining about not getting on this list, not getting on that list, not getting this recognition, not getting picked for the Olympic team, not get, well, well, Russell Westbrook is

all that. He's got all that on his resume. I think he makes them a better team. I think it's a lot. that they're a playoff team with Westbrook on it. My trepidation with Westbrook is that he's a self-destructive player on the court sometimes. He plays too out of control.

And sometimes he doesn't play nice with others when he's in that mode. And you can't count on him in the big moments to be in control when you need him. That said, he makes them a lot more fun to watch. and more competitive. You nailed one thing, which is really not debatable for those that believe it is. If you take both of them at their best, it's not close. Westbrook is not only the better player, he's the much more accomplished player over a long period of time. And even though I'll give you my reaction here in a moment, you know, I was a fan of how John's game was growing and evolving

there were flaws, there were limitations, as there have been in Russell Westbrook's game. But Westbrook, you know, at his best and Wall at his best, which was 2016, 2017. Westbrook, Westbrook's a former, he's an MVP player. All right, he broke what many people thought was an unbreakable record, which was to average a triple double. Oscar Robertson did it in 1962. Westbrook didn't do it once. He did it three times in a row. there are only four times it's happened in history.

The Big O did it, and then Westbrook did it three times. He is a nine-time NBA All-Star, but more importantly, he is a nine-time all-NBA team guy. All right? He's made the NBA all-NBA first team twice, the All-NBA second team five times, and the all-NBA third team two times, which, by the way, is a much bigger and more important distinction than an all-star, an all-star appearance. John Wall made one NBA all-third team, and that was in 2016-2017, which was his best year in a year in which I thought he showed tremendous growth.

But with that said, there's – so my initial take is this. And it's pretty much similar to what my take was when the rumors about this came up. And by the way, just for those of you that don't know the details, Wall traded to Houston for Russell Westbrook, but the Wizards also gave up a future protected first round pick as well. And when I say future, it's 2023 lottery protected, 24 top, I think 12 protected, 2025 top 10 protected. Like, it's super protected. And it's way down the road in terms of it being significant.

It's really not that big of a deal. Tommy Shepard, from what I was told, was asked initially in the conversations to give up multiple first-round picks with Wall. He wouldn't do it. So, you know, ultimately I think he got the deal that he wanted. But you know I've always been a huge Russell Westbrook fan. And some of the conversations I've had with you over the years, you're like, but you can't win anything with Russell Westbrook. And I'm like, well, you know, they did get to the NBA finals.

They played Miami and he was really the alpha in that series even more than Durant was. But I did come to realize that he had limitations and it was going to be very hard to win. But I think overall, Tommy, this deal's really impossible to have like a definitive opinion about it. It's hard to measure because there's a big unknown for all of us. It may be a known for the Wizards. The big unknown is we have no idea whether or not John Wall is John Wall anymore. He hasn't played in over two years. The injury was a ruptured Achilles.

That's usually not a good thing for a basketball player who relies on speed and athleticism, but it's not impossible to come back from. So if the Wizards traded a reduced version of John Wall, then it's a very good trade. If they know that John Wall is much more likely than not to never be the John Wall we last saw at full strength in 2016, 2017, that, you know, then it's a phenomenal deal because they had this contract that they essentially got rid of for a player that's diminished if they believe that he's diminished. At the same time, I will tell you that if John Wall ends up being John Wall physically the way he was in 2016, 2017, despite how much I have really enjoyed Russell Westbrook over the years,

then I don't really like the trade. You know, unless there are other issues we don't know about, and I can tell you that Chris Miller was on with me this morning on radio, David Aldridge was on with me this morning on radio, and there is no doubt. Tommy Shepard told me how disappointed they were when he was on the radio show a few weeks ago. The incident in Brooklyn at a nightclub in September,

where John is on video flashing gang signs was really a problem for the organization. Deal breaker. Deal breaker for the owner. A big problem for Ted Leonis. Yes. And I want to make this clear, and I've made this clear before, maybe not with you. Maybe I have. But for those that scoff at that, you know, and say, you know, okay, boomers, whatever,

you don't run their business. The Wizards don't have like this wildly profitable business. business model. And the pandemic has really hurt organizations like the Wizards. They need people to be interested in not, you know, buying a pair in the 400 level. They need businesses to buy suites and blocks of tickets and then to also buy corporate sponsorships. These are huge revenue generators for a team like the Wizards. And this kind of thing is a turnoff to a lot of these people. Ted was very, very disappointed. The organization was, and this was, according to Chris Miller, a big part of why they decided they were going to try to move on from John Wall.

So, look, from a physical standpoint, if John Wall ends up being the John Wall of 2016, 2017, then I think it's going to be a trade. And, oh, by the way, the profusely, he profusely apologize for what happened. And, you know, by the way, he's been a big, significant contributor to the community. He's never really gotten in trouble. We all know those things about John Wall. But if he turns out to be the player he was in 2016, 2017, when I was legitimately starting to get super excited about what he could become, then I don't know that this

will be a good trade for them. But if he's physically diminished, it may be the, it may be equivalent to the Gilbert arenas for Richard Lewis trade. Kevin. Yes. What were you doing in 2016, 2017? What was I doing? I was hosting, was I hosting a show with you?

I don't know. I don't remember. It's so far back, I don't remember. It's four to five years back. He can't possibly be the same John Wall, even if he had remained healthy. Since then, his knees had become more damaged. and now you've got the ruptured Achilles tended. You've got a guy with a history of bad knees and the kind of injury that slows you down

if you rely on speed and then just age, there's no way that John Wall is that player again. Listen, there's no chance. Houston's not stupid, you know, I mean, Russell Westbrook did not look particularly good from recorded reports. I didn't watch any of this, but I read a bunch of reports last night. He didn't look good in the bubble. Well, he was hurt. He had a quad-dream and he had COVID.

Right. So, you know, I mean, but Russell Westbrook is a lot closer to being Russell Westbrook than John Wall may be to being John Wall. I think that's fair. But as a quick aside, do you remember what you were doing in 2016, 2017? No. You were a much better co-host of a radio show slash podcast, much better back then. A lot of the, you know, a lot of the sicknesses and the injuries that you've had over the years have really made you a diminished character. Anyway, in all seriousness, though.

And guess what? You're right. What? I'm not making as much money as I was. You're, you don't have the kind of contract that I'd be looking to get rid of. You know, the other part of this is that for many sports fans who just barely follow the NBA, and I think that is the majority of the audience listening to this podcast right now, because I know why most of you listen to this podcast. It is Washington football team, Redskins, Skins, NFL, it's more of that than anything else.

But most of you who have listened to me and me with Tommy and me with Cooley over the years, you know how much I love basketball, and I love college basketball, and I love the NBA. And so I do follow it, and I do watch it. But I know from the reaction last night that this was, you know, really perceived as a major blockbuster deal. You know, two massive names, Wall and Westbrook, the trading of a former number one, number one overall for a former league MVP. It sounds like a huge deal. But for me, Tommy, and I felt this way a couple of weeks ago when it first came up, while it's two big names, and I understand why it's a headline grabber, you know, breaking news in the sports world last night. But my reaction is like, look, one guy hasn't played in two and a half years.

One guy hasn't played at a high level because of injuries in three and a half years. And by the way, in his prime, or when he was approaching his prime in 2016, 2017, had flaws as a player, was not a top 10 player in the league. The other guy is, yes, a former MVP, but that former MVP has now been traded twice in two years, twice. Do you know that's never happened with an NBA MVP, a former NBA MVP, that a former NBA MVP has been traded twice? traded in consecutive off seasons. Now, if that's not a red flag, it should be for you. So two teams in the last two years didn't want him anymore. His most recent team had him for one season and said, ah, no, thank you. You know, why? Well, the why, you started to hit on it a little bit. The, the player Russell Westbrook is very accomplished, and he's a Hall of Fame player. He's a Locke,

Hall of Fame player. John Wall is not a Hall of Famer at this point. Maybe he'll have a second act to his career that will make him one, but he's not had a Hall of Fame career. I want to make sure you agree with me on that, right? I don't think any... Absolutely. Absolutely. The best he can hope for is his number retired at Capital One Arena. Well, Tommy, he is, in my opinion, very debatable if you take the Baltimore players out, which I normally do when we have this greatest wizard bullet of all time discussion. For me, it's Wes Biggie, whatever order you want to put him in. I put Elvin Hayes 1 in West Unsell 2.

I know you have him in reverse. But Wall's in the conversation for the third greatest player in franchise history. I agree. Okay. I agree. Absolutely. So I, but he's not a Hall of Famer, Russell Westbrook is. But Russell Westbrook, for the past four years of his career, his teams don't win.

at all in the playoffs. And the NBA is like the NHL. It is a playoff sport. It's a postseason sport. It's not a regular season sport. It's a playoff sport. You get the eyeballs on this sport when they start playing games that matter after the 82. That's when the owners make their money in attendance and revenue.

No doubt. What Tommy said is so true, especially for organizations that are in the middle of the pack or at the bottom of the pack, like the Wizards where they desperately need the two, three additional games that the postseason brings just to break even. Russell Westbrook's teams have won exactly one playoff series in the last four years. His teams are one and four in playoff series, and the one that he won was in the bubble in September, and he missed the first four games of that series. So my point is this trade four years ago, blockbuster, even for somebody that really is into the league like me.

Now it is very much a, I don't know. Like it's like Scott sent me this tweet from some NBA guy. And I'm looking for it right now, but basically I'll paraphrase it in case I can't find it. It basically went, you know, wizard, you know, after the trade, wizards to rockets, hey, best of luck, you know, we wish you the best of luck. And then the rockets respond, you too. Like, and that's sort of how I feel about it. That is. Look, but I think that Westbrook will make them a little better, if not a lot better,

and it's far more fun to watch. I think that's true. I put together a list of the things that I like about the trade and the list of the things that I don't like about the trade. So let me get to that. But I want to preface it by saying the following. If I watch John Wall this year in Houston, and he is physically what he was in 2016, 2017, which was by far in a way the best year of his career. And Tommy, he was growing in every aspect that he had been weakened. He was becoming a more consistent shooter, certainly in the mid-range. a better three-point shooter, a more, a guy that paid attention and played less casually. You know, that was always a big problem for me. And that was always to me why he was near the league lead and turnovers each year. But if I see that John Wall out there, I'm going to be upset because I would have preferred, if that were the case, to have seen John, Bradley, Beal, Davos, Bertons. Not that it was a championship team.

But the Westbrook-Beal combo isn't a championship team either. No. Okay, let's stop. We don't even talk about that. That's not even discussed. Yes. Championship team. No, no, no, no.

We don't even discuss that. We're just talking about, you know, like entertainment purposes, like exhibition kind of thing. You know, look, if John Wall wanted to be traded and he felt he couldn't pray with Bradley Beale, they may have had no choice but to deal them. Look. And they may have made the best deal they could. I mean, if it's a choice between Bradley Beale and John Wall, at this stage, who are you picking? Oh, I'm taking Beale, but, you know, you know what I think about Beal.

I think Beal has become an elite NBA score, but he's not an elite player. He's not a number one on a championship contending team. I don't believe that. I don't think that they believe that. I think, look, when it comes down to it, the NBA is a weird situation, right? Very few teams each year actually have a chance to win a title. It's unlike any of the other three major sports. Hockey, basically, anybody can win the Stanley Cup every year if you qualify for the playoffs.

You have a chance. The NFL is really a crapshoot league, too. It comes down to each year, you know, who's got the best quarterback and who stays the healthiest. The major league baseball playoffs have random outcomes in the postseason every year. The NBA year and year out, the best teams always win, always win. So everybody else, if you're not one of the one or two teams legitimately with a chance to win a title, what are you doing? Well, what you're doing is what the Wizards have tried to do, put together the best team possible to get to the playoffs and potentially win a series and maybe even push for the Eastern. conference finals because that's a pretty good revenue year because you got all those additional

playoff games. You got more people interested and you played in some, you know, meaningful games. But you're not going to beat LeBron when he's in Miami or LeBron when he's in Cleveland. It was never going to happen. Now, the East is different now. It doesn't have that juggernaut, unbeatable team. Hence, Miami got to the NBA finals, you know, just recently. But anyway, the thing, Wall wanted out. The Wizards wanted him out. Okay. Before I get to a quick list of things I liked about the deal, things that I don't, which

I've already touched on some of them, don't you feel that Beal had to have some sort of say in this and that he probably wanted Wall out too? Yes, I do. I do think that I don't think either of them wanted to play with each other. I think that, you know, they had been together too long. I think that Beal could look at Westbrook, probably looks up to Westbrook, since Westbrook is the more accomplished player and is the devil he doesn't know and is thinking, well, I can play with this guy. And let's not forget, I don't think he's necessarily been a good coach. But one of the reasons Westbrook wanted to come here is because of Scott Brooks.

Yep. He loves Scott Brooks. And Scott Brooks, when I've talked to him about the years in Oklahoma City over the year, years and we've talked about Westbrook. I've said, you know, and this is, you know, this is a big thing as to why I've always loved Westbrook. I don't honestly believe that I've watched a team in a pro sport, one of the four major pro sports over the last 10 to 12 years that tries harder than Russell Westbrook. I just, I've said it for 10 years, like going back to when we were, I'm like, this guy is non-stop energy effort. I just never seen anything like him. He is a marvel. But if it's not under control,

I understood. It's destructive. Well, and that's, you know, so I love Russell Westbrook because of what I just mentioned. And by the way, he will put up big numbers. He was putting up a really good season before the pandemic hit, even with Hardin in Houston last year. He was having a hell of a season. It was actually working to a certain extent. And then, you know, he had COVID-19 and he had the quad injury. And it was really ugly to watch him in the postseason on their way out in that series against the Lakers. I think that the fit for him with Bradley Beale is going to be a much better fit than it was with James Hardin.

And the reason is that Westbrook needs the ball in his hands. Hardin needed it even more. Bradley Beal won't need it, you know, as much as Hardin did. I'm very, very interested to see how this will work because Beal with Wall Out became much more ball dominant. But he doesn't need to be to be a really good player. We've already seen that in the past when Wall was healthy. So I'm very interested in the fit. I actually would lean heavily in.

in the, it's going to be a better fit for Westbrook than Hardin was. But at the same time, I don't know what it'll be like for Beale. I don't know what Beal's feeling is. But obviously, I think Beal was better off in his own mind with Westbrook than he was with Wall. I mean, the two players, Westbrook and Wall, they really mirror each other in so many different ways. You know, they're the same type of player. You know, Wall statistically has been a better show. shooter than Westbrook. Obviously, Westbrook has been a better overall player. You know, and at their

best, like we mentioned earlier, Westbrook has been the better player and the more accomplished player. I like this deal in part, and this is going to sound stupid because it has nothing to do with basketball. But you know, I've always been like, I think if the Wizards ever really got good or at least had a major star, it would be a big deal in this town. And it would give me the opportunity to talk about it more without understanding, without, without, understanding that I might be tuning a lot of people out because the wizards are a distant number four of the pro sports teams in this town right now. They have been. You know, it's football, it's skins, gnats, caps, wizards here in recent years over the last, you know, three years.

And that's the order. And by the way, the wizards are a distant fourth, like behind the gnats and the caps. So been invisible. Invisible. So, West. Westbrook is a bigger star than Wall. Oh, listen, Westbrook, they'll sell some tickets. This will generate a lot more interest. No doubt. People will. I mean, I'm more excited about watching this team than I was before.

Right. So this will generate more interest. I mean, as it goes on, it may evolve into something that doesn't. But I just think, like I said, they're more fun to watch. They're a more interesting team. And I think, you know, given them being the wizards, that's all you can pretty much hope for. The, I think the thing that I like about it as well, and this, you know, this is the assumption. And again, it's part of the unknown, the big unknown.

But if you assume that Wall isn't going to be John Wall again, then even Westbrook at 32 years old. And Westbrook hasn't been super healthy. You know, he missed games. He had the quad injury in the bubble, and he's missed other games in recent years. And, you know, he is like Wall, a guy that has to have that explosiveness and that athleticism to be Russell Westbrook. But I do think that given that we don't know what John Wall was going to be, it does mean that I think the Wizards are a playoff team this year. I think there are a team that could win 42, 43, 44 plus games somewhere in that area. and be, you know, in that, you know, the East is much better if you don't follow the NBA.

And be in that Wizards limbo that they love so well. Well, it's better than, you know, being 27 and, you know, 55. I just, so I think, look, the East is much more loaded than it's ever been, really. I mean, you have obviously Miami who went to the NBA finals, Milwaukee, Toronto, Boston, Philly, You know, Brooklyn with Durant and Kyrie. You've got Indiana. You know, you've got six, seven teams that are good. In the past, you've had like three, and then it's like you get to the four or five seed,

and they're barely 500. You know, I think in 20, if there's a 72 game season this year, right, not 82. They cut it by 10 games. You know, so when I say 42 wins, that's based, 42 plus wins, that's based on an 82 game season. So with a 72 game season, I think that's what it is. You know, it used to be if you were a couple of games below 500, you were in the playoffs in the East. Now I think what it'll be is the first six, seven teams are going to be teams that are

two, three, four, five games over 500, more like what the West has been. So it'll make it harder. But I do think that there'll be a playoff team. I do think he brings a lot more attention. What I don't like about all of this is that, first of all, Westbrook, in watching him the last couple of years, the flaws for Westbrook, most people know this. First of all, there are a couple of stats, Tommy, that Scott gave me last night from his research department. They have a pretty extensive research department. My research department is me.

And he gave me a couple of these. Where are they? So over the last five years, 78 players in the NBA have taken over 2,000 shots. The effective field goal percentage stat, Westbrook is dead last among those 78 players at 78th, and Wall is 77th. So that's why I go back to, you know, for basketball fans, it's like, okay, but for, you know, sports fans, it's like, whoa, wall for Westbrook. And how about this one? In the last 10 years, three players have led the league in turnovers more than one time, at least twice.

Hardin's done it more than twice. And the other two are Wall and Westbrook. Westbrook is, so they both are turnover machines and they've both been turnover machines. I've hated the way John's been a turnover machine because I think a lot of them have been unforced. when I say enforced, almost casual, lazy. Westbrook, every single turnover he makes is at full speed. There's a big difference. And by the way, many times in what I would refer to as a low IQ basketball decision, Westbrook has a problem slowing down.

And it's really hard to win in the postseason if you can't dial it back from 120 miles per hour to at least 75. you know, or 80. And Westbrook only knows one speed, and that's been the problem for him over the years. He's also worsened as a shooter, you know, just a horrific three-point shooter. You know, watching the games in the bubble when I was trying to convince you to watch some of these games in the bubble, which you wouldn't, I was like, oh my God, he has, he really has a confidence issue in his outside shot. He looks hesitant to shoot it. He's not a confidence. shooter. And, you know, there was a time where Westbrook was a decent, you know, outside shooter. That worries me because, you know, if he is ball dominant and is going to end up with at least as many field goal attempts as Beale does, many of those are going to be threes. And if he's shooting

at 27 percent, which he's been in recent years, it's going to hurt him a lot. Anyway, the last thing on this real quickly, I'm actually a little bit sad. about it. I know this is really stupid because they didn't win anything. But remember, because you and I were doing the show then, when they got to the postseason that first year in 2014, and I said to you, I said, you know, this is a team that's, you know, with these two guys, they're going to go to the playoffs. This is going to be the first of the next 10 years of them being in the postseason. And if they can add a third really good player. They're going to be a threat, but they're going to be in it and they're going to be in the mix. And those first couple of years, I really enjoyed watching their

team because, first of all, and a lot of Wizards fans that don't know anything about basketball, did not realize how good of a coach Randy Whitman was. Randy Whitman was one of the better exes and O's coaches in the league. But, you know, it's more important as a head coach in the NBA, to be a player's coach because the players really run it. And Randy may not have been a player's coach. But Randy Whitman, by the way, that gives me an idea, I'm going to call him and try to get him on the radio show because I actually really like him. I think he's a smart guy.

Anyway, those first couple of years, you know, like Whitman knew. Whitman knew that Ney-Nay was a super high- IQ player and a leader. And Trevor Areza, who I loved, as you know, was a super high IQ player and a versatile player. a good defender. And that mix. And by the way, Gortot, who Wall, you know, Wall didn't get along with Beal at times. Wall didn't get along with a lot of people at times, including Gortot. But their on-court chemistry was outstanding. Wall and Gortot were one of for a few years, the best pick and roll combos in the league. Gortot was a guy that was really gifted in terms of soft hands. He could catch with either hand. He could finish with either hand. And he and Wall had

great chemistry. And I love those teams, and I thought, man, you know, remember that first year, Tommy? They took out Chicago and five, and then they had Indiana, you know, they won the opener at Indiana, and that series went six. And then the next year, they swept Toronto. And then they would have beaten Atlanta to get to the Eastern Conference finals if Wall didn't get hurt. You know, that year in 2015, when Pierce replaced Erez. And then in 2017, when they got to the seventh and deciding game, the only game seven they played since. It's 1979, all right? They have this game seven, you know, in Boston, and that's, you know, following John Wall's, you know, three that we came into the show with.

They lose that game. But Wall was phenomenal. Not in that game seven. Beale was incredible. If my memory serves me correctly, Beale had 38, and Wall was one for his last 16 or 17 from the floor. Well, we know what we, that was, that was the Ernie Grunfeld. defeat. I mean, that was the fact that they had no

bench. Yep. They had to play. John Wall was coming off knee surgery, started out with his time limited that year and wound up fifth or six in the league in minutes played. Yeah, and they had, they had traded

for Bogdanovich, if you recall, and he became really their key bench player. They had to sign Brandon Jennings and they had Satteransky. Ubre was, you know, Ubre, I always felt had a lot of talent, and we've seen that here in recent years. But anyway, that season featured in the series before, Wall's best game. Wall was getting better.

He was becoming a better shooter. He was becoming a better leader. He was becoming a more consistent defender. Wall in the game six closeout in the first round that year against Atlanta, put on one of the great performances in franchise history in the play. playoffs. He went for 42 points, eight assists, four steals, two block shots, and scored 19 of the team's 26 points in the fourth quarter. And when the game got tight, blocked Dennis Schrooter's shot. It was a famous play, blocked a shot, turned around, scored on the other end, and it

was like game over. He was sensational. And then, you know, he came back to next year and was clearly compromised and hurt and hasn't been the same since. But I am going to miss that. It never developed into what I thought it would develop into. And a lot of that had to do with injuries, et cetera. But it was better for me as a Wizards Bullets fan. Those years of the 2014, 15, 17, et cetera, 18, they were more exciting for me to watch than the arenas, Antoine Jameson Karan Butler teams. They really were. I enjoyed this iteration of the Wizards, you know, somewhat competitive teams more than the last one. That last one was fake. They were never, ever going to do anything because they were so bad defensively, so bad defensively.

But anyway, I think that might be it on this. I agree with you that, you know, this, you could have reason to believe that this team could account, that, you know, the wall teams that you spoke of could accomplish more than the arena's teams, because you're right. I mean, that, that was a team that was built the opposite of NBA playoff teams, the, the arena's team. So that was never going to be anything more than what they were. But ultimately, the final product is they both got the same distance. I mean, they both got to the second round of the playoffs, and that was it. You know, the fact is that this team still hasn't been past the second round of the playoffs, this organization, since 1979.

And I think the trade, I think the trade marks gives sort of like, the final black mark of the first 10 years of Ted Leones' ownership of this franchise. I mean, he took over this franchise with grand hopes, and here they are 10 years later, pretty much where they were. You know, I mean, they've made no progress. The pick of Wall, though, was the right pick. And, you know, for the most part... Of course it was. It was a terrible draft. But for the most part, he lived up to it.

Well, I don't know if he lived up to it. I think obviously when you pick somebody number one, number one overall, and by the way, a lot of people believe in him, you hope for a lot more in the postseason, right, as an NBA fan or a team of an NBA team. But for the most part, Wall really was, like we said, I mean, Elvin Hayes, Wes Sunseld, and then it's a conversation between Bobby Dandrich, John Wall,

and Gilbert Arenas. You know, and I would put Wall third as the third greatest player in franchise history. I'm talking about since they came to D.C. You know, I don't count Earl the Pearl and Gus Johnson. I know that. No, you're right. You're right. I would probably agree with you on that.

But look, as far as the canonization of John Wall, you know, this smells of what I refer to. as the as the the the the the mob canonization you know the mob boss who builds the wing to the hospital and then and people absolve him of all his other things john wall was a tremendous influence and an important figure in dc he did a lot he did a lot of charitable work and was a very popular figure but he also didn't take care of himself. I mean, there were reports, accurate reports for years about the drinking, about the partying, about the clubbing around town. He showed up for practice once and not a state to practice, wound up getting into a fight

with teammates and disrespected his head coach. This was a guy who self-destructed internally to the point where he was. organization, I mean, had a last straw. There was a last straw. For a guy who... You're right about this. You were right about this. Who is not a problem.

There's no last straw. Okay? The gang signs were the last straw. There were other straws. Yes. And, but, you know, well, so there's a real... There's conflicting discussion here because on one hand, John Wall never got in trouble off the floor.

John Wall was a major contributor to the community, an incredibly charitable athlete, you know, in this town during the 10 years, did a hell of a lot for various, you know, causes in town. But there is no doubt. Make no mistake about it. I've heard it now from a half dozen people in the know, off the record and on the record. On the record, a guy like Chris Miller who works for NBC Sports Washington and knows John, in terms of media people as much as anybody does, and is pretty tight with the organization.

He basically said this. He goes, what happened in that club in Brooklyn in September with John on video flashing gang signs was very much a last straw. I mean, I'm paraphrasing now, but using your description, that was it. I mean, they were super disappointed. Tommy Shepard told me that. David Aldridge didn't disagree with that. on the air this morning, and I've heard, you know, from people off the record that these are the

things that Ted would be like, you're hurt. I am paying you 40-something million dollars. And to be able to pay you that, I need you to be a leader. I can't have you make these kinds of mistakes that hurt my ability to generate the kind of revenue I have to generate to pay you. And, you know, it's funny, I've mentioned this before. It's a maturity thing, Tommy. It's also a lack of exposure to the other side when you're an employee or in in a world of massive money divas and john wasn't a diva necessarily they just they don't get the other part of it it's like oh it just grows on trees here's 43 million dollars well but with that comes a responsibility and that was that was a mistake that i don't think the organization um you know it immediately put them into the motive if we can

move on from him and this contract let's do it yeah Yeah, yeah, it did. And that's, I mean, again, I mean, that's basically one in a list of issues that have come up with this guy that had made it easy for them, easier for them to say goodbye to them. So, look, I'm looking forward to watching this basketball team. I can't say I felt like that in a while. I totally understand that reaction. I also was, and I said this the other day, I think, that I was interested to see if they were getting the wall of 2016, 2017 back. And I understand that could have been major wishful thinking.

But because I thought that John Wall with this Bradley Beal, and by the way, Davos Bertans, who really is a major you know, threat offensively and a better defender than people really understand. But I just kept thinking, well, Bertons, I mean, he benefited from playing with Beal, wait until he gets a load of playing with Wall. He's just going to have to get out in transition, find his spot, and he'll get the ball. But Westbrook, you know, Westbrook's had a few assists, too, over the course of his career. Actually, actually, I think he's averaged eight assists a game over his career. Oh, yeah.

I think if I read that right. So, I mean, he knows how to pass the ball around. Yeah. Westbrook's overall career average 8.3 assists. Yeah. He had four consecutive seasons of averaging over 10 assists a game. And obviously had the three straight triple double seasons, including the MVP season in 2017,

when he averaged 31.6 points per game, 10.4 assists, 10.7 rebounds, also averaged nearly two steals a game. Also, it was his highest turnover average as well. Look, it's going to be interesting. Scott Brooks, he's got a hell of a challenge here, man, because it's going to be, in many ways, it's going to be up to Beale and Westbrook to figure this out,

but Brooks is going to have a lot to do with it. And, you know, I just remember those OKC teams, and I like Scott a lot, but I remember with you doing our show being super critical of how completely uncoached. It was definitely not a... Uncoached on offense.

They were very unstructured. They were very unstructured. And in the postseason, you needed more structure. But at the same time, I remember this too. I remember Gary Williams calling me because he was listening to that show one day. And he said, you know, it may not be Brooks. It may be Westbrook.

There are certain guys that you coach that you can't coach in a structured way. or you really limit them. And this may be the best way to get the most out of him and hence the most out of the team. And they did make it to the NBA finals. And they were on the verge of going to the NBA finals when they were up 3-1 against Golden State too.

So there were almost two finals appearances for Oklahoma City regardless of how unstructured they were at times. One thing about this Wizards team, they're going to have to improve defensively. They just haven't, they were so bad defensively last year. You know, Thomas Bryant's an offensive center. He can't guard anybody. This guy, Banga, if you haven't watched them, you know, he can defend a little bit.

Troy Brown can defend maybe a little bit. I have no idea about the first round pick, Denia Abdiya, but they're going to have to, I think I've said this to you before. I'm not a huge Rui Hachamura fan yet. I mean, you know, it was a rookie season. and it was a weird rookie season. And I saw a lot that I liked, but I loved some of the other guys in that draft that were drafted after him last year, including his teammate, Brandon Clark, who got picked by Memphis. I'm talking about his Gonzaga teammate.

I personally think the pick was just okay. And we'll see. But when you pick a guy like Hachamur and ninth overall, this is what they're going to need to hit on. They're picked this year. Hachamur is going to have to become because you have a cap situation now. You didn't get rid of John's contract. You just replaced it with Russell Westbrook's contract. Yes.

Yes. I got to ask you, is that Wiesel still the PR guy in the organization? I'm not going to comment on that because not only do I like him, I think he's very good at his job. And is he still is he still there? That's your that's your view. Is he still there? Yes, why? Oh, that's disappointing.

Because you won't go to games unless you have the right parking. No, no, it has nothing to do with that. That has nothing to do with parking. And you know, you know what's going on there. And it has nothing to do with parking. But I ain't going to a game as long as that guy. You're the worst. He's by far away.

He is one of the best. He is on the list. Look, and by the way, I'm not going to mention his name because I've been, you know, texting back and forth with him over the last 12 to 15 hours. Oh, that's nice. Well, in other words, he's protected because you like him. Well, I've always liked him. I actually find him to be by far and away one of the more helpful PR people I've ever dealt with in this town. And it's, and there haven't been a ton of them, you know. And I actually, in whatever, look, here's the bottom line.

When you get on Tommy's list, there's no way to get off it. There is no chance you're getting off. Yes, there is. There is a way to get off. Yeah, but it's too costly. To apologize. It's too costly. And that never came.

All right. We will get to yesterday's NFL game between Baltimore and Pittsburgh and Robert Griffin the third's performance right after I tell you about Window Nation. Window Nation right now is combining their best two offers. of the year into one end of the year sale opportunity. You'll get zero percent financing for 60 months on all window styles and if you buy two windows, you'll get two free with no limit. So if you need 10 new windows, you'll only pay for five without paying a cent of interest for five whole years. That'll save you $5,000 on interest alone. Let Windonation help you

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If you don't like the estimate, you can then move on to another company. But I promise you, you'll get a great estimate by mentioning my name and working with them is the best. I've never, Tommy, never once had one person tell me that they took my recommendation on Wind Donation and had a problem with it. I swear on my children on that. That is the God's honest truth. It's always worked out for everybody. 86690 Nation, windonation.com. Don't miss this offer.

Call them now and tell them that I sent you. So, did you watch the game yesterday? Yes, I did watch the game. I mean, I just, so I thought there, we talked to, Cooley and I were talking about this yesterday. I actually thought there was a lot of intrigue to the game because Robert Griffin III was going to get a chance to start a game that meant something for the first time since 2016, the opener when he was in Cleveland,

and really a game with like meaningful playoff late season stakes for the first time since 2012. And so, you know, he tweets so much and he's such an inspirational social media influencer. I was curious as to how he would play and what we would see. Now, to be fair, that team was severely limited. had a lot of players out with COVID-19, really couldn't prepare for the game like they, you know, they wanted to prepare. By the way, their fault.

I mean, they were the cause of this whole thing. I mean, they got nobody to blame but themselves. And by the way, they were a little bit whiny after the game about, you know, having to play this game. I mean, like, really? And Bobby was one of the chief whiners. Oh, yeah. We'll get to that in a second.

So he comes out. And honestly, I don't know that. I've seen a worse, the Denver game Sunday with the guy that was on the practice squad, the receiver that had played some quarterback at Wake Forest. He completed one pass and threw a couple of interceptions with all their quarterbacks down. Obviously, that's the worst quarterback starting performance of the year. Griffins is second. It might be a distant second to what we saw in Denver last week. He was so god-awful and it was such a reminder of just how horrible he is as a thrower.

Not that he can't throw the football. He's got a gun for an arm, and I think sometimes he's accurate, but he's blind as a bat. He just has never, ever been able to see the field. And yesterday it starts with a fumble on a mesh zone read. Then his second possession is a pick six, where again, the guy, this has been the biggest limiting factor in terms of on the field. I mean, you know, the delusional aspect of what he is versus what he isn't has always been an issue for him off the field, which is translated to on the field, but he's just never been able to see the field. He throws it right to Hayden. I mean,

right to Hayden, deep in his own territory, pick six, Baltimore's up. Then he gets on like 15 dropbacks, I think he got sacked four times. And if it wasn't four, it was three times with two or three near sacks. They totally botched the end of the half. And I will go through this in a moment because I think the Ravens actually got screwed on this. But then, by the way, he finished 7 of 12 for 33 yards, okay? I mean, seriously, 7 of 12 for 33 yards. He did, however, on a zone read keeper, man, he exploded up the middle for a 40-yard run,

and it was nice to see. but it was also a reminder that that's what he is. That's what he always was, but that's not what he wanted to be. And that's where the whole thing came apart at the end of the 2012 and before the 2013 season, is he thought he was Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Aaron Rogers, but really he was Lamar Jackson. And, you know, playing that way gave him a chance. And when they were running the football, he actually looked pretty good.

But what happened? He got hurt. Shocker. You know, at one point he's running to the sideline, he just starts hobbling. He grabs his leg and I'm like, oh my God, it's a non-contact injury again. And then they finally, you know, mercifully took him out of the game in the fourth quarter, wrapped up his hamstring, which was injured, and put in Trace McSorley, the former Penn State guy, who's the third stringer. And McSorley throws, you know, a 70-yard touchdown pass to Hollywood Brown, and it's a ball game with, you know, with three minutes to go at 1914.

It was an ugly game altogether, but the intrigue for me was to, A, check out Pittsburgh because that's Washington's next opponent. And by the way, they lost Bud Dupree. They lost one of the best pass rushers in the league. He tore his ACL in the game. And to see what RG3 would do. And it's just, it's amazing. He just cannot see the field. He has no idea what's going on on the field.

You can see it. I mean, every time I've seen him play for the Ravens, even in preseason, this has pretty much been the story. So I'm wondering, what do they see in him to keep him as the backup quarterback? Well, because they're running a very unique system. This isn't the occasional zone, Reed. I know that. This is a quarterback dual threat system, period.

I understand the logic of it. Right. But he can't throw the ball. Well, he can throw the ball. Oh, no, he can't complete a pass. He can't see the field. You know, he's got the same issues that Jackson has, but Jackson's a million times better as a runner and, you know, stays healthy. You know, the big issue with Griffin more than anything else.

Forget the fact that he's just never, he doesn't see himself for what he is, which is a guy that needed to improve in a certain area, which I'm sure he still to this day doesn't think he needs to improve in. After the game, you know, he basically gave this whole thing about if he hadn't got, gotten injured, they would have won the game. I'm like, what game were you watching, dude? You were terrible. That was unbelievable. His post-game comments showed that this guy has not learned one single thing.

I didn't hear the whole thing. I read some of the quotes and then I went and watched like three minutes of it. He was wearing a white fur coat in the presser. And he did the thing that he always does, which is, you know, talks. He said, I'm not allowed to talk about injuries, but, you know, I got injured. And I think if I didn't get injured, we were well on our way to winning the game. And then he did the thing where he said, but I apologized. It was on me.

But the guys came to my guys. My guys came to me. They all came and said, no, no, don't worry. It's not your fault. Yeah. He wanted to make sure that that was part of it. I know. I know.

It's just unbelievable. It is incredible. I mean, he really, he's in suffering. And for the people. in this town that still can't see that yet? They have to see it now. Come on. No, I'm telling you. You really think there are people in this town that think Griffin should be the quarterback and should be a starter and that everybody has screwed him? No, I think there's people in this town that root for him. Some of your buddies maybe even. Oh, I don't think so. I don't know anybody

anybody anymore that thinks that Griffin can play quarterback in the NFL as a starter. But they still root for him. Oh, well, look, you know, my boys were rooting for him yesterday. One of my boys is like, I want to see if RG3 can do it again. And I said, don't get your hopes up. But he's an insufferable weasel. I know. He takes no blame.

And when he takes blame, it's so transparent what he's trying to do. He's one of the worst. Yeah. He's one of the worst. I mean, I'd rather have a total transparent asshole than this guy. Well, the problem really for him is he'll never, ever avoid injury. He's always had this very breakable build. By the way, every setback you face in lifetime,

he is preparation for the greatest comeback of your life. That was tweeted out from him just two hours ago. Anyway, I wanted to just mention real quickly the end of the half. I mean, the Ravens actually got majorly screwed on that. And Terry McCauley, who's the NBC official analyst, pops in to tell you about the calls. I actually didn't know what the call should be. I just knew that I've seen referees stop the clock when other teams purposefully sit on the ball and don't allow the referees to spot it quickly. The referees will typically,

they'll blow the whistle and they'll stop the clock. Baltimore, at the end of the half, for those of you that don't know, all right, they got the ball down to the Pittsburgh four-yard line with 37 seconds to go. They basically ran it down the field. That was the drive where Griffin had his best play of the game. He had a 40-yard run. It was the play that essentially moved the sticks for almost the first time in the game for them because they got their seven point. It was 12 to 7 Pittsburgh at the time. They got their seven points because Pittsburgh fumbled a punt deep in their own territory and they ran it in.

So they're down first and goal at the four with 35 seconds to go in Baltimore called their last time out. Actually, after the first and goal, excuse me, they ran the ball three yards down to the one yard line and called a time out with 26 seconds to go. So let me just mention this. With 26 seconds to go and no timeouts at the other team's one yard line, if you come away with no points, that is criminal clock management, a criminal clock management crime. It's terrible. You should be able to run your second downplay, third downplay, and kick a field goal even without timeouts.

Collinsworth is telling me shouldn't call the timeout. They're absolutely fine to call the timeout with 26 seconds to go. was the right thing to do. They've got second goal at the one-yard line. They should be able to run a second-down play, a third-down play, and kick a field goal. Well, on the second-down play, because they really don't trust Griffin to throw it, they ran the football, and they didn't get in. And the Pittsburgh defender laid on the ball, and the referees lacked any urgency whatsoever to get the player off the ball so that they could spot it and the clock is now running. And by the way, I watched Griffin during this whole thing. There's no urgency. There's no recognition of what's going on.

His center was the one that was really fired up. Like, come on, you got to get this guy off the ball. We got to go. And the clock's winding down and they finally spot it. And the clock, you know, gets to four seconds and they snap the ball and they run a play. And they threw it into the end zone. and the guy was open and it was Griffin's best throw of the day. By far his best throw of the day. And the guy had it, should have caught it and held on to it, got hit by Fitzpatrick right when he caught it, and it was incomplete, and there were zeros on the clock.

So not only did they only get one more play after the first play, they didn't get a third, they didn't get a field goal out of it at all. So they were, they did a poor job, but Terry McCauley pointed out, He's like the referees should have called delay of game and stopped the clock on Pittsburgh. That was the, they totally missed with about 12 seconds to go. The clock should have been stopped. Pittsburgh should have been flagged for delay of game.

And Baltimore then would have had, you know, half the distance to the goal, a second down opportunity again with 12 seconds to go. And then they could have thrown it twice and kicked a field goal and fourth down. They really did get, I mean, Harbaugh was incensed. By the way, one last thing on this game, I just love the Ravens, not as a team. I don't root for them. People always mistake this. I just love what they are as an organization. They had no chance going into that game yesterday.

And I guarantee you they knew that Griffin wasn't going to be very good also. So they were massively limited at the quarterback position and with all those players out. But Tommy, Martindale as a defensive coordinator and that defense, They were so tough and physical and flying around. And they made that a game. And Pittsburgh didn't play well. And there were a lot of drop passes. And Tomlin was incensed after the game.

He called it a junior varsity effort. But very few teams would have lost a game like that by five points yesterday. It takes a certain coach, a certain coaching staff, a certain kind of player, especially on defense. That was heroic. to be that close and to actually have a chance to win the game at the end. Do you think he's going to stay the backup quarterback? No, I think this is it. Yeah.

I think they'll have another backup next year. I think I think this year. But I think Griffin just started the last game he'll ever start, unless, you know, of course, Lamar Jackson. And I don't know, to me, I think McSorley might get the next opportunity with the backup. I agree. I think he's going to. Especially if Griffin's hurt. Like he's got a hamstring injury, so he may be out.

Anyway, but I think yesterday was his final opportunity. If he had really played well and had shown that he had grown as a pocket passer and as a, you know, I think you would have maybe seen him at least continue in Baltimore as a backup, but it was such a brutally awful performance. Let me just make this really clear. If he didn't get injured, they had no chance of winning the game. Zero. They were not going.

Now, they did run the ball pretty well, which they did against Pittsburgh in the first outing, but they were not going to win that game because at some point he was going to be asked to throw the ball from the pocket on a third and five, and he was going to get sacked or he was going to throw it to the other team. So anyway, I don't think Pittsburgh, by the way, Pittsburgh obviously is up next for Washington. And I was watching this game and I'm like, you know what? I think we have a chance. Well, let me ask you a quest. First of all, everything's coming up Washington's way.

You know, Bud Dupree is now out for the season. Just everything seems to be working in Washington's favor right now. I mean, Washington's going to be the more rested team going into this game than the Steelers will be. The Steelers, you know, have to turn around and play on Monday after playing on Wednesday. But, you know, they didn't play very well. Now, they're going to be fired up to play much better. And I know you believe in this idea that you don't want to play a team that's angry. The Steelers are going to be angry.

Yeah, you know, it's funny because I was like, God, please, I don't want them to lose this game. Because if they lose this game, then, you know, then they're really going to be fired up. But listening to Tomlin after the game, he was. Yeah. I mean, even Rathlisberger, he was. lit them up. Yeah, lit them up. So they are going to be ready.

But yeah, you're right. I mean, Bud Dupree is one of the best pass rushers in the league. The combination of Dupree and Watt, T.J. Watt, it's been incredible. In watching them play, not just yesterday. Like, I don't think they're Kansas City's level. I don't even know, to be honest with you, if they're Tennessee's level. And I know they beat Tennessee. And I think I could see Pittsburgh easily going out much earlier than most people think,

even if they go undefeated, which, you know, I don't know if they're going to go undefeated. They still have to play Cleveland, I think, on the road. They play the Colts, too. They play the Bills. Oh, that's the game. They play the Bills after Washington on Sunday night football. So they've got Wednesday to Monday and then Monday to Sunday night the next couple of weeks. So, you know, the Bills, the Colts and the Browns, they still have left.

All three of them will have a chance. I would have, in watching them, I think Washington, the way they're playing, has a chance. And I think, you know, I could see, you know, they're not, put it this way, Tommy, they're not, if they were playing Kansas City or they're playing Green Bay this week, or they're playing New Orleans with Breeze, or a couple of the teams that are really super offensively and good defensively, I would say no. Pittsburgh, I don't think they're anywhere near the best team in the league. Like I think they are somewhere, you know, after the top three or four. You know, with that said, it's Rathlisberger. It's a good defense. Not a good defense.

A very good defense. And I could be proven wrong in January. But I give him a chance. I give him a chance certainly to play competitively and have a chance to win this game. Although listening to Tomlin after the game, I wish I had heard, hey, you know what, we feel pretty good about where we are right now. We got to win, you know. But this is, I mean, I don't know if you want to be. the next opponent.

Not after their performance. This is the team. Yeah. Not after that. But I agree with you. You know, taking that out from what I saw, I think Washington can be competitive in that game. You know. I mean, again, it all depends.

Every opponent. I don't understand why they don't, they don't play to this. How hard do they make Alex Smith's life? How difficult do they make it for. Alex Smith back there. That's the key. And Scott Turner will have a lot to do with that. When they last played a really, really good defensive team, right? The Rams or the Ravens prior to that.

There were a lot of quick throws getting the ball out quickly with Dwayne. Remember, Dwayne had the best fantasy day of his career against Baltimore. Apparently he told everybody about it after they lost that game. And then, you know, in the first half with Kyle, Allen against the Rams, the ball was coming out quickly. I think you'll see that. You know, I was thinking about something the other day that I'll just bounce off you right now. You know, the Bill Parcell saying you are what your record says you are. And, you know, a lot of people who, you know, will, you know, in a conversation, really, so you think your team's good, what's your team's record? And then they'll just, you know,

well, that's what they are. You know, it's really not true. At the end of the year to say you're 5 and 11, that's what you were, that's fine, because it takes into context the entirety of the season, the 16 games you played, you were 5 and 11, your record says what you were for an entire season. But your record in the moment doesn't necessarily say what you are. Oh, you do this all the time. I know I do. And I know it's right. This is the difference between playing good and being a good team. Okay. You're right. It's the difference between playing well and having a good record. All I'm telling you is right now, Washington is playing well. Yes. Okay. So the four and seven record would indicate that they are a bad team. They're not a

bad team right now. They aren't who their record says they are right now. The context is what's the record of their opponents that they beat? I understand all the things that go in to why they're playing well. But that's my feeling. You can't just stop. You can't just stop your context at the point where it's convenience. I'm not, I'm not stopping the context. I haven't stopped it. I've conceded that they're playing well and that part of it may be because they played the giants twice, the Cowboys twice, the Bengals and the Lions. But I still believe that they are playing well. And I think you're going to see it the next couple of weeks. And it may not translate into a win. But let me flip it around. So I watch this.

The Steelers yesterday. They're 11 and O. Their record would suggest they are the best team in the league. You are what your record says you are. You're 11 and O. You're the best team in the league because nobody has the same record. They're not the best team in the league right now. They're not.

Kansas City's better. I think maybe even Tennessee is better than Pittsburgh right now. I'll be very interested to see how Buffalo performs against Pittsburgh in a few weeks. I think they're a very good team. get me wrong, but they're not what their record says they are. They're not the best team in the league right now. And by the way, Tommy, that's

where, you know, the betting experience comes in because I know never to look at a team's record. When I'm betting and when anybody's setting a point spread, they're not looking at teams' records. They're looking at what the team is right then and there.

That's what they're looking at. That's my only point. Okay. I agree with that. But, you know, I mean, good teams sustain those moments. I didn't say Washington was a good team. I said they were playing well. Yes, they are. Okay.

I agree. If they play well against Pittsburgh and let's just say they lose 27, 24, but they had a legitimate chance to win it, I may tell you on Tuesday when you're back with me, not only are they playing well, but they're now a good team, even though they're four and eight. I may tell you that then, because I may feel that. I can't say that they're a good team because of the context of who they've played. But I do believe that they are playing well. I also believe that they are right now well-coached. I agree with you. I think they are.

I think I would agree with you. Certainly, I mean, compared to what we saw in the Dallas cave on Thanksgiving, I mean, it was like a Joe Ging. gives coaching staff compared to what we saw over on the other sideline. No, yeah, I think, I think they are. I think they play hard. I don't, you know, I think that, I think that on defense, do you know, like, there's speculation that Jack Del Rio may not, may not be back as defensive

coordinator. If there's some problems? No. I did not. I did not know that. I think Jason Lockenforor and SI.com suggested that may be. Really? I haven't heard any more about it.

I haven't seen anything about it. You know, maybe Voodoo Jack is rubbing people the wrong way. But the defense has been playing well. You know, I had Charlie Casserly on the radio show this morning, and he, you know, it was unsolicited. He said to me, he goes, they're a well-coached defense right now, for sure. Yes. And I said, and I think I said to him, you know,

What about Scott Turner? And he said, I think he's putting them into a good position. And Alex is obviously huge in that because he knows exactly where to go with the ball. I did not know. Tommy, where did you hear that? You're saying Lock and fora? Was that recently? I think it was s.i.com.

Huh. You'd have to do so. You'd have to have your staff do some more research. Will you please email me that? I'll see what I can do. Yeah, but don't write a column about it and make me, you know, have to sign up for something to read it. Just please email or text me. Did your buddy Charlie tell you what he thinks about Alex Smith as quarterback?

I did ask him about Alex Smith, and he said to me, he said he's really impressed with the way he's playing. And, you know, I just, I said, so what do you think the end game is here? And he said, I think they've got to be in the market for drafting a quarterback. And I said, yeah, no, I understand that. But I said, you agree with this, don't you? right now there's a decent chance he's coming back as the 20-21 starter even if they do draft a quarterback and he said absolutely so he said they need they need to draft the quarterback yeah but you know the the the the director's the quarterback of the future is not on

the roster still um yeah oh he believes that no doubt but i believe that i mean i i would look if they if somebody there told me the quarterback of the future is on the roster then i would say they really believe in Kyle Allen, because that would be the only one. I think Alex Smith is a guy that they clearly now understand can play. We all understand that now. You know, it's going to be very interesting to see what he does here against really good defenses. The next two weeks in particular, I mean, the 49ers are getting much healthier, and they are a good defense, and they're a well-coached defense, and God knows Kyle Shanahan loves to beat up this team. And so, you know, here's the one thing with Alex we just have to be careful about.

We shouldn't have any real definitive opinions on him based on recent history about how wrong we've been. I mean, he may go out against really good defenses and lay a couple of massive eggs or get hurt, God forbid, and the conversation about next year will be over. And, oh, by the way, somebody pointed this out, Tommy to me, and I forget who it was. We don't even know, maybe it was you. Of course. I love when I do this, and I then remember, maybe it was Tommy. He may not want to play next year.

Who says that he's going to want to play? That wasn't me. Okay. That wasn't me. It's possible he may not want to play next year. Listen, but they don't have the quarterback of the future. There's a Dwight Yolkham song, the only Dwight Yolkham song I have my playlist called a thousand miles from nowhere.

That's where this franchise still is. A quarterback? Quarterback. Yes. Yeah. And here's the other part of this, right? If they win the division, they're drafting no earlier than 19th.

Right. I've explained this to everybody before that, you know, when you're in the playoffs, you are then not eligible for the first 18 picks of the draft because the 18 non-playoff teams then get slotted in order of record. Even though Washington could win the division

with a six and ten mark, there may be five teams in front of them with a better record that didn't make the postseason, but they're not going to pick any earlier than 19th. If they don't make the playoffs, they could pick as high as fifth, depending on how their season ends. I also think it's always really important

just to point out this, and that is it doesn't matter where they're drafting as far as the quarterbacks go. If they're drafting fifth, they may not like any of the quarterbacks. They may not like Justin Fields or Trey Lance or Zach Wilson if they become available. One of the things that I think we're learning about Ron Rivera, there is a certain type of character that he wants, a certain type of, you know, for the lack of a better description, culture person that he wants.

And, you know, the other big thing about the draft, he's got to get his middle linebacker. He has got to get his middle linebacker because that's the biggest, weakness defensively. And when they were great defensively, Luke Keekly was on the field. He's got to find his Luke Keekley. And that could be in the draft, too.

So they may, you know, go in with a needed quarterback in the draft, but it may not mean that they're going to have a chance to draft one or even like one. So where are you then? Free agency. How about a trade for Matt Stafford? Again, it still doesn't put you much. closer to reality as to where you want to be. I hear you.

Well, you, oh, what? Speaking of quarterbacks, did you see who was named NFC offensive player in a week? Kirk Cousins, I'm sure. Yes. Yes, he was. So it's real quickly, and we'll end the show. So yesterday on the radio show, I had a guy on from Minnesota from the athletic who covers the Vikings to spend an insufferable 15 minutes talking about.

which, by the way, followed like 20 minutes of conversation about RG3 earlier in the show before the game yesterday. But, you know, I suggested to this guy. I said, you know, he could be the offensive player of the month in the NFC. And he goes, he's absolutely one of two or three candidates for it. So did they name the offensive player of the month yet? No, not yet. I don't think. Because he is definitely in the running.

He's had a blistering last five weeks. I mean, 12 touchdowns, one pick. 75% completion rate. He leads the league in so many categories over the last month. But who cares about that? Because it's cousins. He stinks and Tommy, look, he can't win in prime time. He can't lead a team from behind.

He certainly, I mean, God forbid, you fall behind in a game. There's no chance. Whatever. I don't want to drive people nuts. I know. I've been enough about Kirk this week. It's funny because the other part of the conversation that I had with this guy was about Mike Zimmer. And he reminded me of something. This will be the last thing, I promise

everybody. I like Mike Zimmer as a coach, but I find him very frustrating. If I were a Vikings fan, I'd be very frustrated because he's got a lot of George Allen and Marty Schottenheimer and him, Tommy, where he's super conservative. Super conservative in a stage where you have to be willing to be a little bit less conservative, you know, because you're going to get scored on no matter, no matter how good your defense is. His defense isn't very good this year. But I'll tell you what Mike Zimmer is. He is a defensive guru mastermind. And this guy reminded me, he said, you know, look at all the teams playing cover four right now. He's like, that's his invention. There are a couple of, he said, you talk to people around the league. Mike Zimmer is considered one of the best defensive minds

in the league. And that's, he's got no talent defensively. He lost everything and lost one of his best players, De Niel Hunter. And they're not good defensively, but they're much better than they probably would be. They've got a shot to make the postseason. They've got a legitimate chance to make the playoffs

this year after starting 1 in 5. Anytime you start 1 and 5 and you've got a chance in December to make the postseason, some of that is coaching. That's why Rivera. Well, it's the division. But in the case of Minnesota, you know, they were 1 in 5. I

I don't know how many teams have gone one in five to the playoffs. It's not many. The list is short. And they may not make the playoffs, but they're in the, they're a game back right now with five to go. All right. You want to make a pick on the Monday game since you won't be back until Tuesday? Yeah, I'll make a pick.

Steelers 27, Washington 13. Okay. Sounds to me like you'll come in here Tuesday saying they're four and eight, and that's exactly what they are, four and eight. All right. We're done for the day. I'm not done. Oh, you're not? I'm sorry. Go ahead. I'm not done.

What? I just wanted to alert you because I think you've forgotten. In a couple of weeks, I'll be leaving town. Okay. You're going somewhere warm. I'm going to Florida for the winter. Okay. For the winter. But what does that mean? You're still going to be on the podcast.

Yes, but I won't be up. I won't be in the fortress of solitude anymore. Okay. Well, that's okay. Nobody, well, I'm concerned because you'll be leaving the fortress of solitude, and you haven't left it a lot. No. But you'll be down in warmer weather and smoking your cigars, you know, taking pictures of yourself watching the sunset. Yes. And the one thing you should fear is I'll be going to the land of Governor Deathsaurus. That's Santis.

Yeah, it would be just, yeah, that's his actual name. Not the other one. Death, Santa. All right. We done? Yeah, I guess so. All right, I'm done too. Cooley will be with me tomorrow.

Enjoy the day, everybody.