The Kevin Sheehan Show - Was Chase Young Hurt All Along?

Episode Date: August 24, 2022

Kevin today with two guests including Ben Standig/The Athletic to talk Commanders' after today's practice and then Dr. Jesse Morse (Sports Medical Physician) jumped on to discuss Chase Young's injury. The conversation with Dr. Morse is must-listen. Learn why the injury to Chase Young was rare/unique and if it's possible that he was hurt prior to tearing his ACL last November. Perhaps there's a reason Chase didn't play that well before tearing his ACL.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. The show today brought to you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.com or MyBooky.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C.

And they'll double your first initial deposit all the way up to $1,000. Deposit $1,000. You'll have $2,000 in your account. By the way, at MyBooky, Jacksonville now is only a three-point underdog. against Washington in the opener on September 11th. That line's coming down everywhere. A lot of sharp action on Jacksonville. A lot of, what I've been told, public action on Washington.

Yeah, it feels like it could be one of the first smell test picks of the year. The Jags at Washington plus three. By the way, the Ravens are six and a half point favorites over Washington in the preseason finale on Saturday night. It's the biggest point spread of the final preseason weekend. Dallas is six and a half as well, six and a half point underdogs. They're not playing anybody, apparently, and I guess Seattle is. I don't know if Baltimore is planning on playing starters.

I think Washington should be playing starters on Saturday night. I really do. I don't know if they are. But they are the biggest dog, along with the Cowboys, in the preseason's final weekend of the year. Go to MyBooky. MyBooky.ag. MyBooky.com.

Fair lines, fair pricing. You get paid if you win. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. Two guests on the show today, and neither one of them is Chris Cooley. He apologizes. I apologize. Cooley will be on the show on Friday,

and I gave him some homework the other day. Something came up. He couldn't come on today. But we do have two guests. Ben standing. is going to jump on right after practice ends. And then we're going to have a doctor on the show today to talk about Chase Young's injury. And let me give you a heads up because I've already recorded this interview.

You want to listen to this. You're going to want to listen to this interview. This guy was really good in talking about the uniqueness of the injury being a torn ACL and a ruptured Patella. He said it was very unique. You'll hear him describe that. The recovery was complicated. And there's something else, he said, that may be a reason Chase Young didn't play very well before the injury last year. I learned a lot.

I don't know how right he is, but this is something he does for a living, and he is a fantasy football doctor on Twitter as well. So he is a sports medicine guy. He deals with a lot of NFL guys. And I promise you, I think that the 10 to 12 minutes or whatever it was that I spent with him is worthwhile. Speaking of time, yesterday's show was forever. I understand that. I apologize for that. But Tommy and I sometimes just start talking and we look up and we're like, holy shit, it's been an hour and 50 minutes.

But I loved yesterday's show, especially our conversation about Sonny Jurgensen, whose jersey will be retired at the end of the 2020. season. It'll happen in early 2023 in the season finale against Dallas. Not to pat ourselves on the back because it's not typically what I love to do, even though my partner Tom loves to do it to himself.

But I do think that our conversation about Sunny yesterday, I doubt many others had a conversation that was as good as that one. So if you didn't listen to yesterday's show, go to like the 47-minute mark

roughly in the show yesterday. And we did, I don't know, 25 minutes or so on Sunny, maybe longer. And I think for those of you that certainly remember Sunny or grew up hearing about Sunny, I think you'll enjoy that conversation. So two guests, Ben and then Dr. Jesse Morse, and we're going to try to keep this show short today. Neither one of those two interviews and conversations were super long. They weren't. I want to say, start with this tweet that I got from Lawrence. Lawrence tweeted me about the conversation that Tommy and I had yesterday about Sunny. And part of the conversation was me once again giving you my list of the jerseys that I think should be retired. And I have, you know, a list of seven

that are no-brainers. Like everything else after these seven is to me debatable, but these seven are not debatable. My list, and I've given this list many, many times, Tommy didn't remember it, but I made them aware of it again yesterday. But my list of, you know, if I'm sitting, if I'm consulted with a group on, all right, what jersey should be retired? I say to the group, okay, let's get these seven out of the way so we can get to the ones that we can have actually some discussion about. Number nine, done deal. Number 28, Darrell Green, done deal. 33 Sammy Ball, already done. done deal. 42 Charlie Taylor, no-brainer. 44 John Riggins, no debate. 49 Bobby Mitchell, no debate he's already in. 81 Art Monk. Those seven, 9, 28, 33, 42, 44, 49, 81.

Sunny, Daryl, Sammy Baugh, Charlie Taylor, Rigo, Bobby Mitchell, Art Monk. You do not need to have a conversation with anybody about this. Don't let anybody say, what do you think? You think Art Monks Jersey? Yes, of course. These seven players are the greatest players in franchise history. They are. And they're the greatest players in franchise history that spent their biggest and best years of their career here, if not the entirety of their career. here. So that was the no debate list. And everything that comes after it, and I gave you the jerseys that would be kind of in that next tier, that next tier being Joe Thaisman 7, Sean Taylor's 21, which as we know is already retired, Ken Houston's 27, Larry Brown's 43, Chris Hamburger's 55, Joe Jacoby's 66,

Russ Grimm's 68 and Sam Huff 70. Those are, you know, let's have a really strong debate about this because you can make the case for all of these people that their jerseys should be retired. But they're not no-brainers like the first seven. So I got this tweet from Lawrence. You can tweet me at Kevin Sheen, D.C. Lawrence said, I liked your list too,

but you missed one, and I'm surprised you missed it. you have said that this guy is the highest ranked player in the history of the franchise at a position and you didn't include him on your no-debate retired jersey list. Number 27, Kevin, Ken Houston. Thank you, Lawrence, for the tweet. And you're right. When I've talked about Ken Houston, Ken Houston's the greatest safety in the history of this franchise. It's not Sean Taylor.

it may have been Sean Taylor had he lived, but it's Ken Houston. Ken Houston played six years for the Houston Oilers and then came to Washington in 1973 and played the last eight years of his career here. He was a two-time first-team All-Pro here, and he was a many-time second-team all-pro, including four times in Houston. And yes, when it comes to specific positions, Ken Houston is consistently ranked higher at his position safety than any other player in the history of the franchise at their position. Sonny Jurgensen's recognized as one of the great quarterbacks of all time, but he's not in a top 10 list.

Sunny, you'll see maybe occasionally in a top 15, usually top 20 definitely, top 15-ish. Darrell Green, believe it or not, is usually not in the top five greatest. corners of all time. He just isn't. As great a player as he was, there have been so many great cornerbacks. And Daryl usually is listed behind, you know, those guys, Dion Sanders, and Charles Woodson, and Mike Haynes, and Ronnie Lott, and Dick Knight Train Lane, and Mel Blunt, and, you know, Dorel Revis. I mean, if you go through and I'll pull up, you know, right now, Gil Brandt. Gil Brant's one of my favorite NFL historians. He really is.

He's one of the great NFL historians. He has seen it all over the years. He's got Daryl Green at 8 on his list. All right. Ahead of him, Dian's 1, Woodson's 2, Haynes is 3, Charles Woodson is 4. So Rod Woodson 2, Charles Woodson 4. And then you have Willie Brown 5, Mel Blunt 6, Aeneas William 7.

and then he's got Darrell Green 8. Now, when you go to his list of the greatest safeties of all time, and by the way, Riggins, you know, as much as we love Riggins, and he's one of the great, you know, big backs of all time. You know, a lot of times Rigo gets, you know, put into that fullback category, but Riggins is certainly one of the greatest big men and strong men to ever play the running back position.

but Riggins is never going to be in a top 10 list of the greatest running backs of all time. Top 20, top 25, yes, top 10, no. Ken Houston, I'm pulling up Gilbrant's list right now. Ken Houston for Gilbrant is the second greatest safety in the history of the game. Number two on his list. Emlyn Tennell is one, Ken Houston's two, Ronnie Lott's three, Ed Reed is four, Brian Dawkins, five. and if you look at the greatest at any position list and you look at the greatest safety list,

Ken Houston's consistently a top three to top five guy all time. No other player in franchise history can say that. I mean, Daryl Green is not a consistent top five cornerback all time. And he's not in a lot of top 10 lists. He's guaranteed pretty much to be in a top 15 list. Charlie Taylor is not a top five wide receiver of all time, nor is Art Monk, Nor is Bobby Mitchell. Rigo's not a top five, top 10 running back. Sammy Baugh is not a top five quarterback.

Sonny Jurgensen, you see him in a lot of top 15s, but rarely do you see him in top tens. So, you know, unless you want to carve out B Mitch and say in terms of on a list of the greatest returners, will B Mitch be in a lot of top fives? He might be. But that is a specialty position. But I get your point, Lawrence, overall. I guess the reason I didn't have Houston in the no debate category is because he played six of his most productive years in Houston. I mean, he had in Houston, he was a second team all pro 68, 69, 70, 71, and 72.

He came here, he was a second team all pro in 74, 76, 77, and 79. He was a first team all pro in 7578. He was a 12-time pro bowler. He basically didn't miss the pro bowl after his rookie season. Yes, this would be one of those where we would sit down and you could easily make the case that Houston would be on that next list, the next one to be retired, 27. But keep in mind, you know, 27's never even been a protected jersey in franchise history. You know, if you look through the list of players that have worn 27 versus like 9, which we talked about yesterday, Shane Matthews wore it for a few preseason games,

7 was protected, 44 is protected, 40, you know, 49 was protected and then wasn't, which was, you know, ridiculous when that tight end, I forget his name now, war number 49. But lots of players have worn 27 over the years. the organization never saw fit to protect 27. Brad Edwards were 27. Brad Edwards had two interceptions in Super Bowl 26 for the greatest team in franchise history, the 91 skins. He was the runner-up to Rippin for the MVP. So they never protected Ken Houston's jersey.

You know, it's weird because I do have this sense, and maybe it's why I didn't include him on kind of that, you know, absolute no debate list. He's a bit forgotten, and it's unfortunate because not only was he a great player, but he actually had one of the greatest and most memorable plays in franchise history, stopping Walt Garrison before Walt Garrison scored on a Monday night in 1973 to secure Washington's 14 to 7 win over the Cowboys. It was, you know, the Houston tackle on Walt Garrison is legendary in the history of the Redskins Cowboys' Rivalry. Anyway, yes, he would be, I think, on that next list,

the one that you could make the strongest case for. So thank you for that tweet. All right, well, that's it. I'm going to save some of my conversation about the football team, the commanders, for the next segment with Ben Standing, which you will hear right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Ben Standing jumping on with us on the podcast. podcast right after practice ended today on this Wednesday, leading up to the preseason finale

on Saturday night against the Ravens who have this extraordinarily long winning streak in preseason. So what did Ron Rivera say today about starters playing against Baltimore on Saturday night? Yeah, he's a little cryptic about it. He said very limited multiple times, but didn't really specify beyond that. We know last year they didn't play the starters, but I don't know. He kind of said something last week that made me think there was a chance that these guys

could play. And, you know, so that's what he's suggesting. Ultimately, does this mean Carson Wentz gets even a series? I guess we'll have to see. I personally, I understand the injury risk, but I think it makes sense. I mean, the season is still multiple weeks away from Saturday. So if you don't play

the starters at all, then, you know, they will have gone, you know, three weeks or whatever. without any action. But, you know, so I think there's a chance, and that's what he said, very limited, but we'll see. Yeah, I mean, I think last year there were 16 or 17 days between the preseason finale in the opener. This year, there are 15 days. That's been kind of the advantage if you want to play your starters in the preseason finale, is that there's plenty of time.

I don't remember what he said leading up to the Baltimore game last year. It's possible that it's very similar, but that's not the question. He told you what he told you today. What do you think they should do? Yeah, I mean, look, obviously, like, if you don't need to, John Allen probably doesn't play, Kendall Fuller probably doesn't need to play, you know, Terry McCorn probably doesn't need to play. But, like, you know, I think if you wanted to give Carson one work, I would say go for it. I mean, they've had six series as the first team offense.

They have one touchdown. It came against Carolina's backups. I mean, they did move the ball somewhat last week, getting at least to midfield on every possession, but ultimately didn't come up at the point. And, you know, if they don't score this time, I wouldn't say it's a crisis. But, you know, I'd say go for it. And, you know, I think the question also is you've got, we've seen this week in practice, like Andrew Norwell doing some work, West Schweitzer back.

You know, can you get a series in there with the starting offensive line? I think that would be a benefit as well. So that's what I would do. I get the injury risk, of course, but there's always an injury risk in this sport. And I believe I saw some stat that said like Tom Brady that played in, like, the third preseason game, you know, most of the time, including last year. So, you know, if he's doing it, I think you can give it a series. I think Brady and Russell Wilson both, and I remember this from a few years ago,

last year was obviously the first preseason with three games. I think that we can find games in the preseason where both of them played a series or two in the fourth preseason game. I just, like, I was thinking about this, and we've now had multiple administrations. It seems like it's been the same process going back to the beginning of Jay Gruden, maybe even Shanahan. I can't remember how he handled the fourth preseason game. I do remember a game in Arizona when he put Albert Hainsworth in the game. I do remember that particular preseason finale.

He was the only presumed starter that ended up playing because he was trying to get him into shape. But it's like, you know, it's not that Rivera and groups should be beholden to what didn't work here before. but it really is like this history of taking the preseason very lightly and then not being ready to start the regular season. Like even if you go back to the Philadelphia win in Rivera's first season, they were down 17 nothing in that game. And if Carson Wentz had any kind of offensive line health in that game, they probably wouldn't have won that one. I don't know. I just kind of think like maybe mix it up and recognize you got over two weeks. And if you don't play them like you said, it's been three weeks. weeks since they haven't played. I think they should play starters for a little bit.

And also, like, I don't, I have not tracked how many teams in the league did joint practices, but we know these guys didn't. If you did a joint practice and had three days, fine, then don't play Carson Wentz. Or don't, you know, then that's a different deal. But that's not what happened. They've played that they've only been, although these two preseason games, it's the only different thing they've had beyond facing the same offensive defense. So I think that's the other variable here. If you have the joint practice, you can get away with it, but they don't. So, you know, yeah, I'm so yeah, I think we're in agreement on that one.

You know, look, if they feel like the offensive line, like last week, you know, and I know you had said this to me before the game last week, like there should be some concern about keeping Carson Wentz healthy with a totally revamped offensive line. And I would completely understand that logic. But actually, the offensive line didn't perform that badly. and I don't know who they'd be able to suit up this week. But you just, you know, boy, you're counting on a lot. And I know most teams aren't playing starters, it seems.

Like I think half the quarterbacks in the league haven't taken a snap. And Green Bay just ruled out Rogers. They were considering playing Rogers on Saturday night. But I don't know. This team, here's what it opens it up to, Ben, is an opener against Jacksonville where they're down 17 to 6 at halftime. and they lose 24 to 20, and then you're like,

you weren't ready for the regular season at all. And it just seems like there's a chance that they won't be ready for the regular season. Well, right. I mean, look, obviously we can do the whole, it's only preseason, you know, caveats, but Carolina scored a touchdown on their first drive. The chief scored touchdowns on their first two drives.

As I said, the offense, the starting offense, has one scoring drive out of six, and that came against Carolina's backup. So, you know, even to the context of what we've seen, it's, like, they're off to a slow start. So, look, if ultimately they don't use the starters or at least, you know, the Wentz aspect of it, okay, you know, it's not the craziest thing in the world. But, yeah, to your point, it would be the question of, hey, if you're getting up, if you're getting up to another slow star, what's the deal here? But, yeah, we'll see.

All right. I want to switch the conversation. I had this conversation with John Kime on radio yesterday, and I actually thought it was interesting. I don't know how many people did, but I found it to be interesting, and I knew it would be a good conversation for you, too. So Logan Thomas is back.

There's a chance he's going to be ready for the opener. Who knows? Antonio Gibson, it now really seems like their intent, is to figure out how to best utilize what they believe to be his greatest strength, which is catching the ball or having the ball in space. And you look at their starting offense potentially, if everybody's healthy. And it's like, wow, what does Scott Turner do?

This is quite the challenge. You know, I'm not trying to act like they've got the best skill position group in the NFL because that's not the case, but it's far from the worst. And it's probably the best they've had here since Deshaun and Pierre and Jordan and Chris Thompson out of the backfield, et cetera. And they believe that they have a quarterback. And remember, Scott Turner during that four-game win streak, they dominated time of possession,

they ran the football more than they threw it, they were physical, they moved the chains. I mean, their time of possession advantage, I think it averaged 36 to 24 or 37 to 23 during those four games. How do you see Scott Turner, you know, scheming up his offense this year. Is it going to be a run-first offense with Brian Robinson? And then they can take all the pressure off Carson Wentz.

Are they going to go with all of their skill position talent and their quick playmakers? How do you see this working? I mean, I don't know if we know the answer, but I'm just curious as to what you think Scott Turner is going to do with all of this, you know, offensive weaponry. Yeah, well, I mean, and just to your point about, the difference in skill players, you know, like Kelvin Harmon got cut this week. He was a starter here a couple of years ago, right? And like we had the running back room with guys, like,

you know, I liked a fat Rob Kelly, but like that guy, you know, he's not making this team this year. Right. He was the starting running back. Well, they couldn't run the football. Those teams could not run the football. Right, right, right. So like, it's a definite deal. I mean, the fact that like the Army Brown were kind of like, he's not having the best camp, but he's like, it's no big deal because he's like the fifth receiver at this point. So they definitely have the weapons, and you mentioned, we get Logan Thomas back, and we know Carson

went like throwing that position. So, yeah, in terms of your question, is it going to be more run-oriented? Is it going to be a high-volume passing? You know, I kind of, going back to the off-season, and I was writing about this and talking about this, the idea of them adding another running about that, and it's a type of guy that they did get, which was

a Brian Robinson, a guy, you know, who could run between the tackle, who's standard, you know, classic kind of a running back because they just didn't have that. You know, Gibson is a definite playmaker and an explosive guy, but, you know, just sort of always felt he was miscast as that lead. And I think they found success last year in that ball control attack during that winning streak. So I think it's sort of to that end. And I think when you do that, it gives Carson Went to play action. I think he's had good success there.

And it takes some of the pressure off of him. I mean, look, they bring in this guy for a reason. They're paying him a lot of money. isn't just for him to be some sort of a game manager. And that's not his mentality at all. But I think his ability to get the ball down the field and be aggressive works nicely when you're able to establish the run. So I do, like you said, we'll see.

And they have so many ways that they can go when you look at the receiving options, not just the wide receivers, but like the running backs out of the backfield. So they could easily, you know, light it up and throw the ball 40 times a game. But I would kind of guess that, you know, lean into the run game, establish that and then let Carson Wentz sort of feed off of that and find those receivers down the field. Yeah, I mean, I get, you know, I agree with you, and I think that that's what Scott would like to do. By the way, it's kind of what his dad always wanted to do. His dad always wanted balance, always wanted to run it when you thought he was going to throw it

and throw it when you thought he was going to run it. But, you know, with all of, like, McLaren, Dotson, Samuel, and then you've got Logan Thomas, and you've got Gibson now in a role in which he's kind of, you know, Curtis Samuel, John Dotson, you know, J.D. McKissick, and you've got McKissick, and then you've got Robinson. And so if you decide, hey, we're going heavy, we're going 12 personnel. Okay, we're putting Bates and Logan out there, and we're going to run the football. The snap counts for a lot of these playmakers and these toys that they have are going to be pretty low. You can't put everybody on the field.

That's going to be the challenge. Like, they're going to be times when it's empty set and they're five wides and it's either Gibson, split out wide or McKissick split out wide and they're trying to isolate Terry on a linebacker or on a safety in the slot, whatever. I mean, he's got just a lot of options and I think it's going to be really interesting to watch what he does. Ultimately, running the football and doing what they did during the four-game win streak not only takes the pressure off Carson Wentz, but it will take the pressure off the defense as well. So that's my first kind of default in terms of what I think we'll try to see them do, but they've got a lot of options.

Yeah, I mean, going back to the offseason when we thought J.D. McKissick was gone. My first instinct wasn't, well, that stinks. It was like, okay, I kind of get it, right? If you have, if you view Gibson as a guy that you should be, maybe using a little more of a passer and you bring in that sort of classic running back, that's a nice combination. Instead, they keep McKissick. And by the way, you also have Curtis Samuel who lines up in the backfield sometimes. He gets carries at that time.

So you now have with Gibson not in that, it doesn't appear he's going to be in that lead role. He was out here today taking a lot of kickoff, so further vibing of that change there. Between Gibson, McKittick, and Samuel, you have three guys who are kind of in the same space to a degree, and that, in terms of like how do you use all these guys, that's where it becomes, you know, interesting.

And, you know, we didn't even really mention, like, a Cam Sims, a guy who clearly you're going to bring in for Red Zone. opportunities at a minimum if he's in there. Somebody else can't, you know, you can't have everybody out there. So, look, injuries happen. We know this. You know, Gibson has a history of injury. Samuel went through last year.

The kids have missed time. So guys will miss, you know, the opportunities for everybody. But in general, right, that's going to be such an interesting component. How do you squeeze in work for all these guys? You know, even like, you know, even to the extent of Terry McCorn, you just gave him a pile of money, you know, presumably you want to get him the ball as much as possible. that you have a lot more options than you had in his first three years. So even that'll be interesting to see his workload.

So it's a good problem to have. It's not even a problem. It's a good situation to have. But yeah, that's going to be fun to see what Scott Turner chooses to do here. You know, the other part of this, too, Ben, and I know you said something earlier, you know, that's not Carson Wentz, but it might be the way they view Carson Wentz, which is we got to put a lot around him. We can't put the pressure on him.

We can't have him feeling like he's got to do more for this team to win because that's where, at least in recent years, he's made some big-time mistakes in big-time games, including last year for Indianapolis. And, you know, it's a lot of the same conversation that I'm sure they had about Ryan Fitzpatrick. We got to, you know, we've got to surround them with, you know, that's why they drafted Diami Brown. That's why they were interested in Elijah Moore, even though they had, you know, McCorn and etc. And so I think there's a chance that what they're really, and by the way, that's not, that's not criticism. There are only, you know, six or seven quarterbacks in this league that basically you throw it all on and say, elevate everybody else and go, you know, go win 12 games for us. I mean, the rest of the league, you know, in that in that eight to 22 range is you got to surround them with a lot.

of talent if your team's going to win. But I think that's been the emphasis ever since they acquired him. Yeah, I mean, look, you know, we've talked to with John Dodson catch radius. I have to believe one reason that gets discussed a lot is because Carson Went, you know, at least I would like to think they're aware of Carson Wentz not being the most accurate of passers, forget whatever people think is going on here at training camp. His historic completion percentage says that. So you have a guy like Dodson who's pretty good at catching,

balls and, you know, outside of just, you know, the numbers. Cole Turner, same thing, right? A six-six tight end. A lot of talk there. Now, you know, he hasn't had Logan Thomas who's going to give you some of that as well. So, yeah, there's definitely, you've got to be wise to know what your personnel is. At the same point, Carson Went to, basic nature is to be aggressive. This is not an Alex Smith where he's sort of, you know, looking for the, not saying always

the safe rap, but, you know, we all watch that, you know, for your post-injury, Alex Smith is looking sort of that safe play. That's been his, his, uh, emmo throughout his career. Carson Wentz is not that guy. He's going to look for the shot, but I think they're playing into that as well, when you have the playmakers they have a receiver.

So, you know, look, we'll see how Winston will obviously gets it done, but there's no arguing that he has about him having the playmakers around him. The offensive line, I think it's still a little bit of a question, other than the fact that, you know, we don't trust in John Mattskaa type deal. but, you know, it looks like it at least a solid line, so you put all that together, and it feels like the pieces are there, but we'll just have to see how it plays out. I also just want to remind everybody, because you certainly haven't seen it in the first two preseason games.

You know, and Carson Wentz is not the same that he was, you know, before a lot of the injuries over the last few years, but Carson Wentz can really play off schedule and can really move and is athletic. And I think, you know, one of the surprises may be when we get to the regular season, because, again, you don't see this in the preseason. He's trying to get rid of the ball quickly. They're getting him in and out and protecting him. But we're going to see a guy that, you know, can really athletically, you know,

make some plays with his legs. And maybe no one has forgotten that. But I just was sitting here thinking about whence and what it's going to look like when we get to the opener and early in the season. think one of the things that, you know, we shouldn't forget is he's mobile. You know, he can really move. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, you know, the question has been how much has his athletic prowess, I guess, diminished

with the various injuries that he's had, and that's kind of only a question, I guess, to a degree he can answer, but, yeah, his willingness to run is there. And, you know, here's a thing, right? when the good and the bad of extending the plays, we saw the bad the other day when he takes that sack, right, that they all that third down play with him in field goal range. But the upside is he's looking to make aggressive plays

down the field, and sometimes it will be with his legs as well. So, you know, and as we said, the offensive line, which was I agree with the style the other day, but it also wasn't the starters and so on. So, yeah,

he can do, he, you know, there's reason to be optimistic about him. The reason I said, I wrote the other day, based on watching everything in camp and the preseason, if you entered the Carson Wentz era here, optimistic or pessimistic, I don't see any reason to change, but I'm saying this to the optimistic people. Like, he's got a lot of intangibles that could be pretty dynamic for this group,

considering, like we just said, the weapons, et cetera. So, yeah, there's reason to be interested in the running can be a part of it. Hopefully, the key is, you know, he makes the smart play as part of his issues have been, you know, just making some sort of boneheaded plays at a time and choices, and that's what he's got to figure out how to avoid. All right. I said at the beginning of this podcast, it's going to be a shorter show today

because yesterday Tommy and I went for an hour and 48 minutes, which is, as you know, a very long podcast. So I will leave you with this. You know, there's going to be another preseason game, Saturday night, whatever, however it works out. You know, the line keeps dropping in the opener. I mean, it's down to three now. in a lot of spots. There's a lot of Jacksonville action. And already, you know, I have heard from

some of my offshore friends, a lot of Washington public money. I mean, my gut feel here two and a half weeks away from the opener is that this is going to be one hell of an opener. Like, I know it looks easy with the schedule does with the two worst teams from last year, but Detroit's kind of a chic pick to be a much better team, and I think Jacksonville's got a chance to be a much better team. So I'm asking you, which I am sure I will ask you again prior to the opener, what's your gut feel on how this season starts for Washington? Oh, boy. I mean, I haven't paid much attention to Jacksonville or Detroit, so I mean, I'm not even watching hard knocks. So I don't know what's going on with them per se. I guess on

the Jacksonville thing, like if it was still the urban minor era, it would be easy to just continue you'd overlook it. But it's not. Is Doug Peterson, a guy who's a gifted offensive mind in this league who's won a Super Bowl of the head coach? And, you know, look, Trevor Lawrence, like, it's amazing how down people seem to be on him considering, you know, just over a year ago, you know, he was considered the next, you know,

the best quarterback prospects into Andrew Locker or what have you. If Trevor Lawrence, you know, with a better coaching staff, they turn this thing around, he also got some, you know, people make fun of Christian Kirk's contract, but he's a good receiver, they could be a lot more improved. They could be in the same range as Washington that, you know, seven, eight win kind of range, whatever. That said, I mean, you know, they got to,

they almost kind of have to win this game, right? I mean, it's not a must win in that, you know, the season's over anything if they don't, but there's got to be a lot of emphasis on this. I know throughout Camp Rivera talked about playing smart, playing fast. Yesterday I asked, like, what if he needs to see out of the offense from this point forward? and he said the consistency, no more, you know, little mistakes, you know, be on top of your P's and Q's essentially. And that, I think, is obviously what you want, but it's also about starting fast. Get, you know, practice like you're going to play.

That's what he's trying to emphasize. So, I mean, I would think they win the opener, but the Trevor Lawrence, Doug Peterson wildcard is pretty significant, I feel, considering how crappy Jacksonville that whole scenario was last year. Yeah, I don't really see that much difference between the two teams. Of course, we never know the NFL. The NFL changes so dramatically. And until we see four, five, six games, it's really hard to tell in a new season who's good and who isn't.

But I don't know, Jacksonville on paper, and now with like happiness and some harmony between staff and players, I think they, you know, well, look, the line's down to three in a lot of places. Essentially, they're saying it's a pick-em game on a neutral field, although Washington really doesn't get three points at home anymore. They're along with Jacksonville, I think, two of the lowest home field-advantaged teams when it comes to odds-making. So maybe on a neutral field, Washington would be like a one, one-and-a-half-point favorite. But it's not much.

It'll be here before we know it, and we will talk before the opener, I'm sure, once or twice more. Thanks for doing this. I will talk to you soon. Ben Standing, everybody. At Ben Standing on Twitter, the athletic. Subscribe, totally worth it to read Ben and everybody else. Ben's also got a podcast, as we've mentioned many times. It's called Standing Room Only. So listen to that.

Thanks for doing this. I'll talk to you soon. See you, Ben. All right. Up next, Chase Young. He's going to miss the first four games. We know that. What's he going to look like when he finally comes back? More on him with a doctor who will help us with this when we return. after these words from a few of our sponsors.

All right, so when is Chase Young going to actually be back? And what's he going to look like when he gets back? Joining us now on the pod is Dr. Jesse Morse. Dr. Jesse Morse is a certified sports and family medicine physician. He deals with a lot of NFL players, and he is a fantasy football guy on Twitter as well. So if you, during the season, when we get started, want injury updates. and his thoughts on the various injuries. You can follow him on Twitter at Dr. Jesse Morse.

Doctor, thanks so much for doing this. So yesterday, this guy, Jordan Schultz, an NFL insider, put out this tweet describing the injury to Chase Young. And I think it's the first time we had gotten this much detail. We knew it was more serious than your run-of-the-mill ACL. But he tweeted out, full Chase Young update, a source. ACL surgery was more significant than most because he also suffered a fully ruptured Patella, which is why he's going to start the season on the Pupp list, which means he's

going to miss at least the first four games. So let's start with this. How bad was this injury and how hard is it to come back from? So this, even the Patella tendon rupture in its isolation is a rough injury. Combining that with an ACL is a big deal. This is, I don't think I've ever heard of this combo together. I don't even know how he would do it. It's just a very strange combo. The teller tendon is the tendon that attaches your kneecap to your shin. And essentially it pulls down on the shin every time you run or walk or anything.

It's just a weird combination of tearing that and the ACL at the same time. Because why? Because they're in different locations? Yeah, they're, they're, mechanism of injury are completely different. I guess you could have had a partial tear that he didn't know about, which does happen. And then he just kind of tore the ACL and the teller tend to just kind of tore with it. Okay. So it's a unique injury. It's rare. What was he facing when he had this injury? Like chronologically, how did it work? What did they operate on first and then kind of describe, you know,

the recovery and the rehab? So traditionally, ACLs are going to be nine minimum up to 12 months without any setbacks. The problem with an ACL by itself is that you pretty much need to get started on rehab pretty quickly. But with a betelor tendon, you need four to six weeks of basically isolation or basically allowing it to heal before you can start pushing it. So you can't do both at the same time because that would obviously, counteract or kind of do the opposite of what you're trying to do. So if this happened in mid-November, my guess is they basically would repair the Patela first, where they're kind of a suture and kind of tied up together, and then they would

wait probably until early January and then do the ACL in addition to whatever else was injured in the knee, if anything. Usually they use the ACL, the graph area is pettler tendon. That's gold standard. they may have chose hamstring or the other Patelotendant or whatever. So they're basically stacking the first surgery on the second one, which then obviously causes an additional time. So he's looking at probably being about eight months out now, a little between, give or take.

So realistically, he's probably looking at 10 to 12 months out from initial surgery, which is looking at maybe mid-October to mid-November, depending on if he has any setback and if he has any setback, and if he has any issues and if everything is going according to plan. I want to make sure I understand this. So the Patella on its own would have been something that when it gets done, it has to essentially rest in heel for four to six weeks, which is why you said more likely than not, the Patella was done first.

He waited four to six weeks for that to heal, and then they went in and did the ACL. I have that right the way you described that, right? Yep, that's correct. Okay. Because if they did it the opposite way, they wouldn't be able to compare the ACL. Because they would already start in. Correct.

Yeah. So like I said, this is not a common combo. So in my head, that's kind of the only way they would logically do it because they don't want to do both at the same time. And then the ACL's not getting stressed. And it can develop scar tissue and so on and so forth. So I think that's how they would have had to done it. So I think everybody's following along. But obviously the ACL, because Dr. Morse told us, basically,

your recovery starts right away. And so it wouldn't have been able to start right away if they did the Patela at the same time. Here's a question, and maybe you already answered it, and I just didn't hear you answer it. Is there any risk in waiting to do the ACL surgery? Like they had to wait potentially six weeks after the Patella surgery. Is there a risk in waiting to do the ACL surgery? Good question. This would be, yes, there is.

I'll give an example. Michael Gallup of the Cowboys had reportedly a grade 2 MCL along with his ACL. They had to wait basically about a month. Dan Cooper did it, I believe, who's a team doc for the coverage. He had to wait a month to repair it because they had to wait for the MCL to heal. Now, that was coordinating and controlled, and they were probably being smart. If someone neglected an ACL and waited six months, that's a different story, and you're going to have a lot new issues, usually miniscotarian stuff like that.

This was probably done in a coordinated fashion where I don't know. I'm assuming there was no other additional damage because they were being very careful with the knee anyway. Okay. So when you said 10 to 12 months, you were essentially saying 10 to 12 months from the beginning, you know, November, it was second week in November that this happened after their by week against the bucks. Again, they actually won.

And then, you know, you have the Patelah surgery. if they did it right away. So six weeks. So basically we're into the first part of January before potentially the ACL surgery was done. And then it's nine months from that point. So, you know, if that's the timing of it, then we're talking about September,

sometime during September. He comes back. But because he had two injuries and because waiting to do the ACL may have also offered up some level of risk this is what's your guess? I mean, do you think he comes back for week five, or do you think this is longer? I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't come back until November.

Probably not what you want to hear, but I think that, you know, given his stature given how important he is to the team, his position, the fact that you don't want to bring him back and say, hey, we're only going to bring you back for 10 plays a game. Like, they want to bring him back and just let his motor go. So I think they'll bring him back when he's, 100% ready and trust that knee and really solidifies that knee. And I think it's probably going to take a good month or six weeks of practice really before

you can do that. So I wouldn't be surprised if it's November or so. Was your description early in this conversation about it being unique, having the Pitella rupture and having the ACL simultaneously? Is it, are you concerned that the combination of both could, potentially, like what do we know about the combination of both and the ultimate recovery and the, you know, what Chase Young's going to look like athletically? Will he return 100% to where he was prior to these injuries in terms of being a super high

explosive athlete? You'd like to think so? I believe given his talent, given the events we've had in the plan, I think, We've seen guys come back from crazier injuries. Teddy Bridgewater's knee dislocation. It comes to mind at Alex Smith's crazy lower extremity injury. So this isn't absolutely insane to think he's not going to play again. Is there a possibility that he doesn't play in 2022?

Yes. It's probably a 30% chance of something right now. But they're a setback. Maybe the team's not doing the best. him like, you know what, it's probably not worth it to bring it back this year, just in case type of thing. I could see that coming to fruition. You mentioned that, you know, there's the possibility because it's kind of rare that you'd have these two injuries in one event, that maybe there was a partial tear of the Patella already. You know, he didn't play very well. He certainly

didn't look like the guy that he looked like as a rookie for the first eight games of the season last year. He had a half a sack, or maybe it was one sack total. I forget what it was. I mean, he was struggling. He was not, you know, at the Chey Chung level from the defensive rookie of the year season. Is it possible that he was playing injured? Definitely. I will tell you that I see all different positions, linemen, wide receivers, quarterback, everything. I would say we probably know about 20% of their injuries for the media. And even

then, whenever I ask them, I'm like, what's bothering you today? They could answer 10 things, but it's only the thing that's bothering them the most. They all have crazy injuries. Most of the time they function through them. They push through them.

So, you know, could it be something that was changing his mechanics that was causing him to, you know, not have the same level of explosiveness? could you have a partial injury to that until attendant? It's very much so. It's very calm and actually. You're thrown ultrasound on it and you can see in a minute.

And a lot of the guys just push through it and hope it gets better because they're used to everything getting better. They're genetic freaks and they're used to being the best or the best. But unfortunately, ligaments and tendons don't heal and sometimes they learn the hard way. Interesting. By the way, just with respect to the ACL, is it true that once you've torn the ACL that you basically can't do much more damage to it? To the ACL itself, before you're repairing it, true, but you can definitely injure the rest of the knee,

a lot of cartilage injury, a lot of meniscus injury. That's what the data shows, the longer you wait to quote-unquote have it repaired, the more additional damage to the meniscus usually have. They have a tendency to go hand-in-hand about 30% of the time. which is kind of a cushion for your knee and takes a lot of stress off that ACL. After you've had it repaired, just like OBJ, for instance, you can re-rubbered. Unfortunately, it happens. Yeah.

Thank you for doing this. Really appreciate it. Really interesting information, especially that last part, just the uniqueness of and the rarity of doing both of these things simultaneously in one event and the possibility that the Patella was injured prior to the. the tearing of an ACL. That could explain why he was struggling for the first eight games. Who knows? But I appreciate you doing this.

And for everybody out there, Jesse does a really good job on Twitter with sports injuries. It's Dr. Jesse Morse, M-O-R-S-E on Twitter. Appreciate you doing this. Thanks for the information. My pleasure. Take care. Have a nice day. That was interesting with Dr. Morse.

I learned a lot. I did not expect to hear some of the things that I heard from him. We knew that this injury was more than just an ACL. We had been led to believe that all along, which was why the recovery was taking so long. And certainly when he was put on Pupilus the other day, that was kind of hinted at by Ron Rivera early in training camp. But the fact that a torn ACL and a Patella rupture simultaneously

is kind of rare, and the way he explained it, kind of unique and almost kind of hard to understand how that would have happened, led him to kind of say it's possible that the Patella was already injured, which would explain potentially the very average performance to less than average performance before the Tampa game when he got seriously injured with the ACL. if he was playing hurt to begin with. Who knows?

But then the idea that more likely than not, the Patella surgery had to be done first because the ACL rehab and recovery starts immediately, but with the Patella, you've got to rest it six weeks and let it heal. And then, you know, there's some risk in waiting six weeks to do the ACL injuries. So he's been through it, Chase Young has.

Damn, you know what? one thing I wanted to ask him, and I forgot to do it. Too late now. But just the fact that he did all of his rehab and recovery out at that facility in Colorado, where Von Miller did his. It would have been interesting to find out if he knew anything about that versus if he had stayed here and had Washington's group do it. But anyway, we'll see. I mean, you know, the other thing, by the way, just that comes into play, if Dr. Morse is right. And, you know, you know, the other thing, by the way, he's not back and ready to go until November, well, what if the season isn't in play anymore? I mean, I'm not wishing it, obviously, but with this team, you never know.

I mean, by the time you get to November, they will have played three, six, eight games already, so nearly half the season. What if they're two and six? What if they're one and seven? What if they're three and five? But Philly and Dallas are both seven and one? You know, I'm just saying what's introduced here is the possibility that he doesn't play until 2023. All right, that's it for the day.

Back tomorrow.