The Kevin Sheehan Show - Was Quinn A Defensive Difference-Maker?

Episode Date: November 19, 2025

Kevin and Thom with a ton of follow-up to Washington's 16-13 OT loss to Miami in Madrid. Included was a consideration of whether or not Dan Quinn taking over as Defensive Coordinator made a difference. The guys talked "tanking", Matt Gay getting cut, and a lot more. Also on the show, talk of Mike Locksley getting another year in College Park as well as Joe Theismann breaking his leg 40 years ago tonight. For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match Want to spruce up your lawn? FastGrowingTrees.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it, you don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show, here's Kevin. Tommy's here, I am here. The show's presenting sponsor is always Window Nation, 86690 Nation and Window Nation.com. Tommy, this from BP, BP writes, Kev love the show, and Tom is the best always. It's that time of year again when the math, Ain't Mathem. Playoffs, not for us. Our beloved team begins the all too often used strategy of playing for better draft picks. However, I do believe with JD5 at the helm, this is just a blip. This

year is the anomaly, not 2024. We will consistently be back in the mix, 2026 and beyond. However, I've grown to accept this time of year when we are mathematically eliminated before December. It's the time when my bride and I can take our Sunday afternoon drives in rural Pennsylvania, scouting out the beautiful covered bridges. The picnic basket is all set, stocked with Gibbles potato chips and Lorna Dunes. Then on the way back home, we hit Shelley's back room, 1331 F Street, in the district. I love when you guys talk TV and movies. Unfortunately, it's time to do more of that and less unsubes.

Sports. We'd love to hear your take on Lost. It might be time for a rewatch. That's all I got for you. Boss from BP. I never watched Lost. I never did either. Yeah. I mean, I generally don't watch network TV, and that was a network show. It wasn't a cable show. I thought, by the way, it was hers potato chips. We're in Scranton. No, it was Gibbles. It was Gibbles. is hers, Pennsylvania? Yeah, both of them come from that central Pennsylvania Dutch area.

Uts, Uts is Pennsylvania. Uttes, Middlesworth, Gibles, Bickles, a whole group of them. Okay, all right. Thank you for that. Yeah, we're going to talk about that time of year where we start talking

about draft picks, because I think a lot of people right now really do want that time of year. to arrive. I wanted to read this, though, from, this was actually made me laugh. This from Mark. Kevin, at least the loss to Miami was an AFC loss.

That's a good one. It won't hurt them in the tie-breaking scenarios. No, AFC losses are fine. Mark, the problem is they're losing to NFC teams across the board as well. So, yeah, 3 and 8, Tommy, it be over. There's no mathematical scenario talk from me on this podcast. If they had won Sunday, and I really wanted them to win,

because then I would have started going through all of the permutations during the buy week. And we would have had, hey, maybe Jaden comes back for the Denver game, but if he doesn't, maybe you can steal the Denver game and then he comes back. No, no, that wasn't going to happen. and it wasn't going to happen regardless because they're just not good enough. So here we are, yeah, three and eight, and before Thanksgiving, it's over. I don't like this, you know. Last year was a lot of fun, and yeah, we are used to this.

We've gotten used to it over the years, but, you know, I think for me, though, the difference is when it comes to the idea of, let's get the best. possible draft choice. You know, when I've rooted for that in the past, it's been exclusively because there was a regime change coming. You know, 2019 with Jay Gruden, he was gone. Callahan was coaching the team. You were going to have a new coach, a whole new situation. And then in 2023 with Ron Rivera, you were going to have a whole new situation there.

And we already have the quarterback. It's not like, you know, you're in the quarterback sweepstakes. to get the best possible position. So I'm not, I'm not for the tank. I'm not for the, you know, let's start playing all. First of all, you're already playing the backups and the backups to the backups and the backups to the backups, and the backups to the backups. You're already getting a look at every young player that you've had on the roster

because you hadn't, you haven't had a choice. But I really want to see Jaden come back, Terry, Noah Brown, The offensive line continue to stay healthy, fingers crossed, be nice to get, you know, Bates back totally healthy. He hasn't, I don't think he's been playing healthy. I'd like to see the offense play together this year because we really haven't had a chance to see that. And what would that accomplish?

Well, first of all, you've got a young quarterback in his second year. So I want the young quarterback to continue to get experience and get reps. And I'd prefer that to happen with the best, possible support structure offensively, you know, something that resembles last year to a certain degree. The offensive line's actually better than it was last year. The offensive line's better than it was at the beginning of this year because Sam Cosamy's back in the lineup end and they've gotten more cohesive together. But the offensive line is not the issue if he has no weapons. No, that's what I'm saying. Terry McClearn, I wouldn't.

I want Noah Brown back. So in other words, there's context to bring Jaden back if he's healthy enough to play, right? A little bit, but I'm not going to keep him from playing if he's got a deal with what he dealt with, you know, let's just say in the Seattle game. If it's, you know, Chris Moore and Robbie Chosen and Jacoby Jones and Jacori Harris and, you know, names that people had not heard of before the season started, I'm going to be a little bit more angst-ridden over it. I will.

But if there's five games left in the season, I'm not sitting my second-year quarterback for what would amount to be basically 12 games of the season if he was healthy for five of them. But if the doctor tells you, you know, he can play. No, he's not playing. It's got to be 100% healthy. It's got to be clear.

Okay, so in other words, so in other words, there's no, the doctor, plus, as he can play, but it wouldn't hurt him to rest. No, no, no, no. If he, he's got to be 100% cleared. That, you know, that injury that he suffered against Seattle needs to be 100% fine, 100% cleared. This isn't, you know, he's, it's his non-throwing, you know, arms, so he's okay and we got to win this game. No, there isn't a game that you have to win here. There's none of those games this year. We don't have meaningful late-season football this year.

This will be, the defensive coordinator argument will be replaced by the whether Jaden should play argument in the final weeks of the season. This will be a subject of hot debate, unless he's automatically just, the team just takes him out of the picture and says, no, he's done for the year. it will be a subject of debate. Yeah, it already is about when he's cleared. So, I mean, let's look at this. First of all, when he gets cleared is very important to how you answer this question as to should he or shouldn't he play. Because if he's not cleared until there are two games left in the season

against the Cowboys on Christmas Day and the Eagles and the season finale, that's far different than if he's cleared for the Denver game a week from this coming Sunday night Thanksgiving weekend. You know, this was thought to be a three to five week or a four to six week injury. So, you know, he's already two weeks into it. It'll be a third week for the buy week, and it'll be four weeks when they play Denver. So if he's available to play Denver and he's completely cleared

and he can practice the whole week, there are six games left in the season. I don't care who's out there with him. I'd be much happier and I'd feel much better about it if he had receivers whose names we recognized before the season started. But he's playing. I mean, I'm not sitting him for the last month and a half of the season if he's healthy enough to play.

By the way, I just think that would be a bad message to send to, you know, organizationally. You've got competitive people. Dan Quinn's a competitive coach. Jaden would be beside himself. He'd be irate, you know, if he was fully cleared and they decided to sit him. So... I would

agree with all that. When he comes back, is important... That's the only circumstances, really. I would say, you put him back in. What? If he's 100%. Oh, yeah. That's a given. You've got five games left in the season. What if there are three left? Four left.

Four left, yes. Three, I'm, then I'm thinking about it a lot more. Yeah. But you're right. He would be absolutely, it could cause damage with your relationship with the quarterback. If he's healthy and can play and you've got five games left in a season, you're saying, telling him he's not playing. It doesn't do the rest of your locker room anyway. Oh, so he gets to sit the rest of the year and he's full.

healthy, and you know, you're putting, you know, 97-year-old Bobby Wagner and Zach Ertz out there to play. I think that, you know, there's a couple of things that I wanted to mention about this conversation. Number one, I'm not in that mindset yet, and I can't envision being in that mindset unless we're talking about the last two games of the year. Okay, if the last two games are the difference between, say, picking fifth and picking 12th, you know, I'm happy to have have the conversation then. But this is completely different than years past when you had a regime change, when you didn't have a quarterback, and you were just trying to add a lot of talent. And, you know, the argument that some of you would make, which is, yeah, but in a draft with still

a lot of teams needing quarterbacks and you don't need one, that's the position to be in with number three or number four overall or number five overall. You can get a haul back by trading back. Yeah, unless there's a stud defensive player like Ruben Bain out of Miami that's sitting there at five, then you probably wouldn't want to trade back. So I'm not, that's number one. Number two is this, you can't really tank in sports. You put the players into the game, they're playing for their livelihoods. The way you subtly, you know, diminish your chances to win a game is by not

playing your best players. And by the way, that's been happening all season long anyway. So they've already been in that position and we've seen what the results are. But you're not sending players out there and game planning for them to lose. In fact, if you end up with players out there that aren't your best players, like it's a continuation of what we've had, but this time it's because you're actually sitting these guys, you're going to want to evaluate them and you're going to try to give them the best chance to compete. and to win, because that's the best evaluation environment. I also will just add this.

Something we talked about when they hired Quinn, and now that he's got one Washington season under his belt, in his seasons as a head coach in both Atlanta and in Washington now for one year, his record over the final four games of a season, 20 and 4. And that doesn't, I'm not talking about just playoff seasons. There were several non-playoff seasons, but competitive seasons in Atlanta. It's the same thing we said about Ron Rivera when he got hired here. And by the way, it kind of held up with the exception of 2023.

And it's the same thing we said about Quinn when he got hired here. They had a history of not bailing on seasons, of their teams not bailing on them, and the teams getting better as the season went along, even in seasons in which they weren't necessarily. in contention or didn't end up in the postseason. My point being, they're not going out, you know, with, other than by choice, because of injuries, et cetera, they're not going out just playing their backups and backups to backups. It's not the...

Like you said, they're already playing most of those guys. Yeah, those guys, I mean, they've already gotten a good look at a lot of guys they didn't anticipate getting a look at. So This is so disappointing You know, I wrote The column I wrote on Sunday About Madrid

Watching it on TV And I wrote Something about it I'm thinking, geez You know, I did this for years You know, I made fun of them for years Did you make fun of them again? I just retweeted the column I didn't read it

What did you write? Tell everybody what you wrote I didn't really make fun of them but I had a little fun with the trip you know because I thought it was kind of humor is that the whole theme going to Madrid that you know this was just what they needed

you know to get out of town right so but you know it was it was more fun writing about writing about the quarterback last year yeah and the solar system I mean all the time I wrote about them all the time

I know now he's invisible it's you know how many times have we had people tell us you know you guys thrive on these terrible seasons look not everybody can do terrible seasons as well as we did terrible seasons okay but it's not the preference and it's not the best thing for the show the last year and i'm not going to get into numbers. But there was a very noticeable bump upwards of listeners to this podcast. So, I mean, very noticeable. And, you know...

We've talked about this before. Here's what happens. Anger turns into apathy. Yeah. And no matter how good you are at entertaining, losing seasons, if nobody cares, no one's paying attention. yeah anger anger we don't mind it's better than apathy um but you know ecstasy is much better than both of those things last year was we were we were we were ecstatic we were orgasmic going into

the season you and me buddy we i mean yeah i it didn't it didn't happen it didn't happen the way we thought and you know you know it's the thing thing that's interesting about it is, you know, the contrarian in me should have gone opposite of all of the excitement. But, you know, you can't do that when you got the quarterback. But look at this, look at these standings right now. I mean, the AFC alone. I mean, this is just the NFL. I mean, you had Buffalo, Kansas City, and Baltimore coming into the year. Right now, your three best teams are Denver, New England, and Indianapolis.

We got a long way to go still, even though it seems like it's over. The NFC North, Chicago is leading that division. The Carolina Panthers are a half game out in the NFC South. It's just the hardest league to predict and the number one reason why it's the hardest league to predict. I say this every year, even before the season starts. everything with it. Some of you have really gotten sick of the conversation. You can't predict injuries. And they end up being the biggest other than the quarterback determining factor of seasons. And for Washington, they have been hurt the most by far of any team. And that's why instead of maybe

being five and six or six and five right now, they are three and eight. You know, people have asked me that. So if they don't have injuries, what would their recommendations? be not three and eight is my answer to that okay not three and eight and they wouldn't have gotten beaten four times in a row by 21 or more okay yeah they had a tough schedule coming into it and it held up as a tough schedule it's not like they got breaks with the schedule this year you know they didn't get the chiefs without mahomes they didn't get the lions without all their weapons they didn't get to play seattle you know in a year in which people didn't think seattle i mean I mean, the teams that weren't supposed to be good on their schedule ended up being good and are good, like Seattle and Denver.

They're two Sunday night NBC specials. Was Seattle a Sunday night or Monday night? That was a Sunday night. Anybody that looked at the schedule in May, Seattle, Denver, Sunday night football at home, wins. Those are wins. They're two of the best four or five teams in the league this year. down the stretch you don't get to get Philadelphia more likely than not when they're still figuring it out you're probably going to play the best defense in football when you get there if Denver isn't

the Cowboys looked good last night they've already beaten you once but yeah no it's um it wouldn't be three and eight I think that you know it's it's a ridiculous exercise to go through each game because you can say yeah, the Seahawks, Lions, they weren't going to win those games anyway. You don't know that, okay? They were both at home. You literally were incapable of winning those games with the players you put out on the field. You know, would they have beaten the Bears as a fully healthy team?

Would they have beaten the Falcons as a fully healthy team? You know, there were chances, you know, that those things would have happened. But we'll never know. We'll never know for sure. And here's the thing, too, that is true from my standpoint. The defense ultimately was never going to be good enough for you to be a contender this year. It was going to be, in the best case, it was going to look like Cincinnati last year, where Burrow had a borderline MVP season, and they went nine and eight with the worst defense in football.

And I think ultimately that's... Because of the teams that they played. Yeah, but really their defense was just so bad. I don't even remember the schedule last year. If their defense was healthy, I think we thought it would be a click better than last year. Yeah, but what I'm saying is hear 11 games into it, seeing what I've seen, going back to when they were healthier or even healthiest. I just don't think this was going to be a good defense. It was the biggest mystery coming into the season early in the season.

But you keep saying that, but it wasn't a good defense last year. Exactly. Right. But they won 14 games last year. Oh, I thought you were talking about Cincinnati's schedule. I'm sorry when you said schedule. Yes. Last, well, plus they stayed completely healthy on offense.

Yes. And they had, you know, they had some players on offense that they don't have this year like Diami Brown and Olomidi Zakias. I mean, would have been better to have them this year than not have them. Yes, no, I'm sorry. My fault. I thought when I mentioned Cincinnati that they were, you said, but it was also Cincinnati. in Addie's schedule. You meant Washington schedule. Yeah. Yeah. I think

what I know about them defensively, they were a bad defense last year. If they had stayed completely healthy on defense this year, it would have been a tick better because I think they would have been a better run defense with Wise and with Dorrance Armstrong healthy the entire year. I think we saw evidence of that at times that they could be better because they were really bad last year and they're really bad right now,

but that's because they have literally nobody, nobody to set the edge. I mean, teams basically you and I could run for seven yards of carry on an outside zone against their D-Ns. But I think it might have been a little bit better against the run, but they had major coverage issues when they were healthy. They didn't have a scare you pass rusher at all. and then the teams ended up playing, it would have been, I think, ultimately, instead of 12 and 5 last year, I think we would have been more like Cincinnati was last year, you know, in that 9 and 8 territory,

not making the postseason because the defense just was bad, even though it may have been a little bit better than last year's. Here's a question for you. Do you think Dan Quinn had an impact? on what was, by far, the most, a very much improved defensive performance in Madrid against Miami versus certainly their more recent games. You know, this is, this, again, requires some context, even though I hate you keep using the word context. I mean, you know, all the judgment have to include the fact that they were playing. the 25th ranked offense in the league. Of course.

Yeah. But I think you saw play calling that was different than what we had seen in the past. And I think that his impact was positive in some of the play calling. And I think they played a more spirited game than they have in the past. But I think that's probably because they didn't feel so helpless playing the Dolphins. as they did play in the Seahawks. Yeah, I mean, I agree with everything you just said. I think that it was more spirited.

I think the play calling was slightly different. You know, we hadn't seen a corner blitz, I don't think, all year. Yeah. But the opponent was nowhere near what their previous three opponents were. And even if you throw in the Cowboys offensively, nowhere near what the last four. You know, the four games that they lost by 21 or more, And I'll add that offensively, they, you know, they ran the football. That helps your defense.

They ran 10 more. Let me talk about that. I'm sorry? Let me talk about that for a minute. Okay. Let me talk about that for a minute if I could. Okay. Now, I don't want to go off simpleton on you here.

And I know this is kind of like a simple kind of response. And I apologize beforehand if it is. but nobody feeds the ball anymore. You know, no one gets fed anymore that I can see. In the NFL? Yeah, remember when Emmett Smith would get the ball 10 times, 11 times straight? Zheel Elliott, you know, he carried the ball six, seven times in a row. My point is, I mean, I'm waiting for them to start feeding Chris Rodriguez.

this game and give him the ball until they can stop him you know but but after he runs the ball a couple of times he's on the sideline he's out now this may all be a simpleton argument but i'm interested in your perspective on it's not a it's not a simpleton argument it's just that it's it's not really done anymore in the nfl i know you know it's not but the reason I mean, that guy, they could not stop him. I mean, they could. Well, yeah, I mean, at some point, he wasn't Derek Henry in the game. No, he wasn't.

But at some point, it's like when a hitter going up to hit a pitcher who just walked the guy before you, make them prove to you that he can throw you a strike, okay? Make this defense prove to you that they can stop this guy from getting four or five yards to carry. yeah well he he got in the game 5.3 yards per carry yeah you know and yeah and by the way he also appears to be one of those backs that would get better and stronger and wear on a defense with more carries because of the way he runs and his size you know he's 228 pounds or whatever he is I mean I the one thing that I said after the game is I don't have anything against Bill. He's fine. But I wouldn't have given him nine carries. I would have given him four or five and given Rodriguez another four or five. You know, get him to 20 at least. At 5.3 yards, we're at least over 100. Yeah, I'm, but to answer your question, it just really isn't, you know, there are a couple

of backs. You know, we've seen Derek Henry get fed before, not as much this year. We've seen you know, Jonathan Taylor, you know, who's having a phenomenal year, get fed. I think in the game, their game against Atlanta in Berlin, which was a week ago Sunday morning, you know, he had 240-something yards, and he was over 30 carries. Now, that game also went to overtime, but still, you know, there, but no, it's just, it's a passing league number one, Tommy. I know it is. Number two is that you just, you use, you use passes as a form of your run game too.

So, but I'm with you. Like the other day, I'm like, this really is helpful for this team right now. If you can stay balanced, which they did, and be able to get, you know, four or five yards to carry with a guy that, you know, so far, knock on wood, doesn't put it on the ground. He's good yards after contact. He's got better vision. He had a really good cut behind the line of scrimmage that set up that long run that he had of 17 yards. I'll tell you what, though, watching, you know, the running back position really has come back a bit, you know, starting with Saquan Barkley, I think, is much last year. But like Jonathan Taylor's having a ridiculous year. And there are backs when you watch them. It's like, you know, I know that you

don't want to draft a running back in the first round. But Bejohn Robinson and Jemir Gibbs were both first round picks. And when you watch Jemir Gibbs on Sunday night, like against that defense, Philadelphia's defense, it would be nice to have an offensive weapon like that. They don't have that. The scary, the scary guy, the guy who's scarce, who the defense has to know on every play where that guy is. We don't have that player. Fully healthy or not. Sorry, Terry fans. We don't have that player. The quarterback

is that player and has been that player. It would be nice to have another one. I mean, when we get to the conversations maybe in a few days about the off-season, you know, you've got to add speed.

You've got to get younger, of course. You've got to add some team speed offensively. Um, I mean, you know, Bill's not, you know, all due respect to those that had him, uh, as the next, you know, O.J. Simpson, uh, as a running back. Uh, I don't think that's going to work out more likely than that. Man, um, there's a running back at Notre Dame, Jeremiah Love. He looks like the next big thing. Uh, there's no way he doesn't get picked in the first round, though. Um, I mean, Devon A. Chan. I mean, Devon. I mean, Miami's back, this speed. God, you just need some, you need some players for sure. And they don't use, you know, again, we can talk about the Miami game plan. I mean, I don't know why they aren't giving him the ball around the edge.

Every play against this team. Quarter and a half, I mean, they gave it to him early, then they gave it to him late. He had 21 for 120. This defense right now, it has 17 Achilles heels, but the biggest and the most injured heel is the outside edge, the no defensive ends. And everybody they're trying to play there is worse than the one that preceded that player. And, you know, they have faced some good backs, too.

You know, I mean, this has been another thing. Like, it was A Chan on Sunday. It was Gibbs the week before that. It was Kenneth Walker the week before that. You know, they had Javante Williams, who's really having a big year. D'Andre Swift is good. I mean, they played Bejohn Robinson earlier in the year. Yeah.

Just looking at the backs, they still have to face. Yeah, not too bad, Barclay twice. But overall, like, Quinn did the right thing, and I don't know that it would have changed anything had he done it earlier because of the teams they were facing. Like, you know, it was awfully convenient that he took it over for Miami. What I did sense, let me say one thing that I sensed, that I think I barely touched on in my post game, which I did after the game on Sunday. It felt like there was a strategy. It felt like, hey, we're okay, not that they're okay with 10 yards, 12 yards of play, but we're really going to focus on not giving up the big home run touchdown.

And we think against your team and your quarterback in particular, that we can get enough stops when the field shrinks. the red zone. And it's something that Souter and I have talked about, like, is it better to be overly aggressive and just, you know, come with everybody? Or is it better to play Ben don't break and just hope that the other team makes some mistakes? Like Miami made some mistakes on drives. Their opening drive, they had to delay a game before a forked down. They kicked a field goal. On the next drive, they had a wide open, tight end, and they didn't connect on it. Like, that may have been a coverage breakdown. And it was wide open. And it was wide open.

and it's probably a touchdown and they missed. So you need them to sort of hurt themselves too, but your chances for that happening are better on a short field and after a long drive. And I thought that there was like maybe more of an idea and a strategy than before. But it's really hard to say that when you're playing Detroit and Seattle

with guys out there that have no business being out there. and the games are literally over at the end of the first quarter. So, the kicker's gone. Matt Gay's gone. What? Oh, boy. Well, the guy that they, I mean, the guy that they brought in, the guy that they signed, I think he's got one kick beyond 50 yards this year.

Well, he did beat Washington with the game-winning kick as the Bears kicker. on Monday night football, which started this disaster. Interesting, right, that last year, the Hail Mary basically sent the Bears into a tailspin, and the botched fumble, handoff fumble against the bears in the rain, has sent Washington season into a major tailspin. Yeah, they signed Jake Moody. Jake Moody was the guy that got into it on the sidelines

when he was a 49er kicker after he missed a bunch of kicks with Debo Samuel. Debo Samuel went after him on, went after his own kicker on the sideline. So they've got him in and, you know, these kickers, I don't know what to make of them. I don't, it's so hit and miss. Do I feel sorry for him? Do I feel sorry for him? He got a lot of guaranteed money, got four and a half, five million guaranteed. Not bad.

I know, but, I mean, I mean, what a life. Oh, just the kickers in general? Yeah. I don't know. I mean, God, the number of kickers that just this group has had, right? Zane Gonzalez, the guy that's, you know, now kicking in Atlanta, the guy with OCD, who dointed in the playoff game. They had Austin Seibert.

They had Greg Joseph. They had Cade York. They had the guy Matthew Wright for a game. So they had last year, they had one, two, three, four, five kickers last year. This year they're on number two with still six games left. Stay tuned. There could be more. Going back during the Rivera years, I mean, the Joey Slyze and the guy, the kid from Gonzaga,

whose name I'm forgetting, just, you know, all of these guys, Gonzaga High School, I'm talking about. Man, kicker's been an issue. Kickers been an issue. They had Graham Ganoe on the roster for a few years. He was pretty good, and he's been a kicker for a long time in New York. It's just hard, man. The kicker thing is strange. The merry-go-round of, you know, kickers in the NFL every year is amazing.

They're just very few where you're like, yeah, just pencil him in, you know, like Boswell in Pittsburgh, which really is quite remarkable when you consider. He's kicking in bad weather. He's kicking on grass, a grass field that usually is the worst in the NFL this time of year or one of the worst. You know, Brandon Aubrey and Dallas is obviously very special. Yeah. Man, I got a lot of feedback from a lot of you on my take on their final drive of the game. I'll get to that when we come back.

I wanted to talk a little bit about Mike Loxley being given, you know, by the AD, another season to be Maryland's coach. You've got some baseball stuff. We've got a lot more on the show today. We'll get to all of it after these words from a few of our sponsors. So guys, I introduced you

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86690 Nation, windownation.com. So I want to just kick this segment off Tommy with an email that I got from Scott, which he sent to both of us, even though he starts the note, Hi, Kevin. He writes, my dad recently passed away from a chronic illness. In his last few weeks, the one thing he would constantly discuss with me was Kevin and Tom's views on this season. You, Tom, and the other guests of your show have a very positive impact on your audience. I hope you know. My dad and I got into a debate about the 91 skins and the 07 Patriots. If they were in a Super Bowl matchup today,

who would be the favorite? What would the line be and who would you take? Thank you for the daily content my dad found so enjoyable. Sympathies, Scott, to you and your family. And thank you for that. I appreciate it. Let's pay tribute to Scott's father and his memory by someday having that very debate on this podcast, okay?

Well, you know, I prepared for this because I read this. But I didn't, you know, I'd like that chance to. Well, but, okay, I mean, we can do that, but can I just give you one quick anecdote or, you know, number from, so the guy Aaron Shats, that is the guy that's the creator of the, you know, DVOA metric, which is a very all-encompassing advanced evaluation of offense, defense, special teams, and then, by the way, of entire teams. Last year, he did, he went back 1950 through the end of the 2024 season, and he gave us

the best teams of all time in order based on DVOA. New England in 2007, even though they didn't win the Super Bowl, was the number one team. 1962 Packers were number two, and the 1991 Washington Redskins were number three. This has been something where a lot of the advanced numbers have really treated the 91 Redskins very well. They were dominant on offense, defense, special teams. You know, we know that they lost, you know, a game at home against the Cowboys. And then basically a game at the end of the regular season where they pulled their starters at halftime against the Eagles. And then they ran roughshod through the postseason, destroying Atlanta, Detroit, and then Buffalo in the Super Bowl.

He did have the 91 skins number two. but when he went back and did an evaluation of a lot of the older teams, the 62 Packers, who went 13 and 1, finished actually closer to New England than, no, equidistant from New England at number one in Washington at number three. But that's different than what we would have. We would break down the matchups, okay? Like do a report card on both of them. between these two specific teams.

New England would be favored, I'll tell you that. The 07 Patriots would be favored. But that's not our discussion. Well, he wanted us, he wanted to know what the line would be. So do you want to save this, the more complete version of this conversation where I'll actually give the number on what it would have been? I mean, New England, I can tell you, the 07 Patriots, I think would have been favored. in a matchup with the 91 skins.

I think to give it its due and to pay proper tribute to the memory of Scott's father, I think we should set aside a time in the future. Okay. Maybe closer to the Super Bowl. Do you think we'll remember? I can even talk about this. Are you going to put this in your reminder calendar? Because I don't think you'll remember this.

So you're asking me to do this. I'm putting it in my phone right now. I'm putting it into my phone right now for, Super Bowl week because we won't have our own team to talk about during Super Bowl week. That's for sure. So I put it in Yeah. The Super Bowl is February

8th. You know what I'm putting it in for Tuesday, February 3rd. Okay? Okay. Scott's father 91 skins versus 07 Patriots. Okay.

All right. I think that'd be a nice thing to do I think it would be an interesting segment. I think it'd be a very interesting segment. You know, whenever I think about, like, the greatest teams of my lifetime, I don't know how the 85 bears aren't the team. Like, that's the team that I don't, it's like I know Miami beat them late in the year. Marino did on Monday night football to, you know, stop their perfect season. But I don't think in my lifetime of watching NFL football,

there's ever been anything more dominant than the 85 Chicago Bears defense? I mean, I tend to think the 76 Steelers might be. The 76 Steelers are such a good call, because that team did not win the Super Bowl. That team didn't go to the Super Bowl. The Bears... And you know me, I have a soft spot for the 70 Chiefs that had six Hall of Famers on their defense. Right. And I think had more off, well, you know, I mean, the one thing about the 85 bears, they were a defensive standout, but they also had arguably one or two or three greatest running backs in the history of football on their team, too.

They did. And Walter Payton. But you know what? They probably didn't need them with that defense. They probably didn't need them. I don't know how it came up earlier on radio, but somehow, oh, I know why it came up because of what I have planned to talk about in the final segment of today's show, so I'll save it. But the 85 Bears beat the Giants in the first divisional round of the playoffs, 21 to nothing. The Giants had 149 yards total.

They beat the Rams in the NFC championship game 24 to nothing. the Rams had 130 totally yards of offense and then they destroyed New England in the Super Bowl 46 to 10 but it was like that whole season Washington you know played them early in that season and lost 45 to 10

and that was the game in which Joe Thaisman had to punt the football and it went one yard in the wind yeah the 85 By the way, your 76 Steelers, bears are fifth all-time per DVOA. Pittsburgh, the 76 Steelers, not any of their championship teams, not the 74-75 or 78-79 Steelers. Those were the four Super Bowl champions of the 70s.

The 76 team is ranked 10th all-time, and none of their Super Bowl teams are in the top 20. That defense, if I look it up, I'm going to say they had something like six shutouts, Tommy. It was something insane that year, how good and how dominant they were in 76. There's a lot of Steeler fans that will tell you that was our best team, but Bradshaw got hurt that year. So here's the 76 team. You ready? one, two, three, five shutouts, five shutouts. Now, I know the 70s are different, but it is so hard to shut a team out. They also gave up three in two games, and yeah, and they gave up six in another.

I mean, just a dominant defensive football team. And they finished number one defense overall, number one scoring defense. And that was the team, the Steelers team that beat the Baltimore Colts at Memorial Stadium when the plane crashed into the upper deck at the end of the game. Nobody got hurt. You know, what's so funny is when I was a younger boy growing up, I mean, and for decades, as long as I can remember, the Steelers were terrible. terrible. They were a Dormat's franchise.

Right. Years. Yeah. Now, as long as the NFL existed, the Steelers were so bad that during the war, they combined the Eagles and the Steelers and the one franchise to save money and called them the Stegals. I do. I've heard the story before. I think you've told me the story before, yeah.

So, I mean, you know, and now the Steelers ever since, like, ever since the Chuck no error have become among the gold standards of the league. Right. And they were just the opposite for just as long. Yeah. All right. We've got Scott's father, the tribute to, you know, Scott's father for Super Bowl week on a Tuesday on this podcast

where we're going to break down the matchup of the 07 Patriots versus the 91 skins. What would the points spread have been? who would have won, who would we have picked, et cetera. Okay. Are we going to hold an idiot's convention while we're on the podcast today? An idiot's convention? Yeah.

And are we going to talk about the dolphins going for it on fourth and one at the end of the game? Sure. Sure. I mean, there's an epidemic right now. It's a short, it's a short argument, in my opinion. opinion. I thought, no, I thought, and I said this in the post game, context to use a word that you love so much, it matters. And they had been stuffed on three straight plays. They had also failed on another fourth in goal. And Washington had scored all of one touchdown in the game.

sorry but my field goal kicker is giving me a 16 to 13 lead with a minute 40 to go worst case we're going to overtime because they're not going to score a touchdown with with no timeouts yeah that's i mean i'm sitting there thinking this team that you're playing in in in more than 58 minutes of the game has managed to score only 13 points yeah and you're worried about less than two. They're having them having the ball with less than two minutes left. Yeah. Look, Tommy, there's an epidemic.

But the amount of people on social media, you know, the Geek Squad came out and said, no, he's right. Yeah, no. He's not right. He was not right. And it's not because of the result. I saw all of that. People sent that to me after I'd said it, you know, in the post game when I said, sorry, but there's no analytics. Go for it or not go for it for it for me.

Give me all the information you want, but I just saw my running back get absolutely twisted into a pretzel by Javon Kinlaw. I saw my second down play get nearly blown up for a four-yard loss. I didn't make it the last time I tried it. This team's feeling it defensively in terms of their goal line stands. and by the way, they probably can't score if they get the ball back with no timeouts left. Maybe they kick a field goal and we tie, but I'll take that chance. I'm going to kick the field goal.

Okay. No, I'm totally. That's good. That gives me faith in humanity. Well, it's an epidemic, Tommy, across the league. I mean, Sunday night's game between the Lions and the Eagles and Mr. Dan Campbell, who I love, and he's made a living on being super aggressive. And this franchise is right now in its glory years in the 21st century, for the most part,

even though they still haven't reached a Super Bowl. But he went for five fourth downs against the Eagles. The Eagles went for a fourth down from their own 29 with a tush push that actually got stopped, but even before the odds of it being stopped, which are pretty low, There was zero reason to go for it. There was no gain. They had no chance to lose the game if they had punted. Their only chance to lose the game was if they went for it and miraculously got stopped, which they did.

But Dan Campbell on a windy, windy night where the two teams were playing lockdown defense, where field goals actually mattered, passed on two field goals. goals of the five fourth downs and passed on punting three times when Philadelphia couldn't move the football. And you were going to get a chance to get the football back in really good field position if you had punted. But my favorite in the game on Sunday night, and this is where sometimes you look at some of these coaches and you're like, meathead, total meathead.

I mean, great communicator, motivator, you know, guys guys. great locker room, Dan Campbell, the whole thing. I'd love him as my coach. I'm not saying that he isn't a good coach, but he's a meathead. Like he just struggles with like the simplest of math. They're down by 10, 16 to 6, Tommy, with a minute 58 left in the game. And by the way, having all three timeouts. So if you're down 10, typically the way to get to 10 in a short period of

time is a touchdown and a field goal. The safety and the touchdown with the two-point conversions, not likely. It's a touchdown and a field goal. We all know that as NFL fans. Fourth and 17. And he's got the offense out there ready to go for it on fourth and 17, down 16 to 6. I'm like, this can't be real, but it can be real because it's Dan Campbell. and he just doesn't do this part well.

And the Eagles call the time out, because I think they thought maybe there was something tricky going on. Like nobody's that stupid to go for it when you need three. And you saw on the sideline, somebody come over and say something to him, and then he's like, oh, field goal, field goal. They kicked the field goal. They weren't able to get a stop to get the ball back. And even if they did, they couldn't move the football against Philly all night long.

But, yeah, there's this incredible, you know, go-for-it mentality. You know, part of it, look, I'm not against it. I like the information. I am definitely more of a go-for-it-when-it-make-sense guy. And especially in today's game with the kickoff rules, you know, the bottom line is that, When you kick off now after a field goal, you're giving up almost a field goal in return if you're playing a decent team based on starting field position. So going for it and missing at somebody's two-yard line is typically better at, well, sometimes it is, especially if the other team's really good offensively, then kicking a field goal and then kicking off where they're going to start at the 30 or the 35 or wherever.

you know, there's more strategy involved in the fourth down decisions now than there used to be because of the kickoff rules. But context and there's so many other pieces of information that have to play into it. And to me, Mike McDaniel made a big mistake in that moment. I thought when he lined up to go for it, there was a really, you know, you kind of feel it too when you're watching a game. You know, like there's a good chance we're going to get a stop here. Like I thought there's a go ahead, go for it, because there's a chance we're going to get a stop here, a really good chance. And why? Because they had literally blown up the three previous plays. Javon Kinlaw, he, tell you what, he's a good player.

They got a good player in Kinlaw. That was a good, he and Tunsell have worked out really well. Real quickly, though, and I'm looking for the email that I had up moments ago, and now I can't find it. But several people really took me to task for saying that I didn't have an issue with their final drive of regulation. You know, 13-13 tie. You know, after the fourth down miss, they hit the pass to Debo Samuel across the middle. And ultimately, they get to the missed field goal by Matt Gay, which was his last field goal attempt as a Washington player. My brother's been texting me.

He's been going back and forth. He's like they weren't aggressive enough when they had a kicker that couldn't kick from beyond 50 yards. And I just disagree overall. I think first of all, you know, to be as aggressive as they were from their own end zone in a 13-13 game, not every team's going to throw it on first down. They're going to run it. They're going to make them call time out. They're going to play it a little more conservatively.

I don't want them to do that, not at 3 and 7. you might as well go for it. And by the way, Miami's defense stinks. So Mario da throws over the middle for 28 yards. And then they're letting the clock run, which is smart. You're not in a hurry at this point. It's a tie game. You're looking for field goal range,

and you're looking for field goal range on the final play of regulation. That's what you hope to be able to accomplish on this final drive. But you also have to be careful when you have the ball, even at the 31, that you don't go so fast and you go three and out and you punt, and now Miami's got a lot of time left because they still have two timeouts. So they ran the ball with McNichols. I didn't have a problem with that. Miami called their first time out.

Whenever you see teams in nickel defense at the end of the game and you've got time to be able to keep run as part of the overall offensive repertoire, try it. I mean, a lot of those draws, a lot of those runs that. end up busting for 7, 8, 9 yards, 10 yards, sometimes more. I mean, that's going to be, you've got a chance to get the 8 or 9 yards there, just as you do in your quick game against Nickel. And then, you know, they get to the Miami 40-yard line with 57 seconds left. And, you know, they run Jeremy McNichols for two yards.

But again, that's not, a lot of teams are going to run the ball there, thinking that they could bust one into much better field goal range. And then after that, Tommy, they threw an incomplete pass. They're trying to get more, they're trying to get Matt Gay better field goal range. They're not comfortable with being at the 38-yard line. If they were, they would have just, you know, run the ball another two times rather than trying to get a big play. The last play, the third and eight deep shot to Chris Moore, which, by the way,

in my post game, I said, that may have been Mario's best throw of the day. He literally dropped it right in Chris Moore's hands. And Chris Moore tried to catch it with one hand. I don't know why he tried to do it. It was a very good throw by Mariotta. Now, it's a risky throw because

more likely than not it's going to be incomplete. The clock's going to stop. You're not going to get that yardage. But there really wasn't anything intermediate that I saw. I didn't have one issue with their final drive. Not one. If anything, maybe on the run after Miami

time out. Maybe you put Rodriguez or Bill back in the game. But McNichols, you know, if you do that, it's almost more of a dead giveaway that you're going to consider run. So I don't know why anybody had an issue with it. It sucked that they didn't execute, that they didn't get one play when they got to the Miami 40. At that point, you're just looking for one, you know, eight to 12-yard play, maybe a 15-yard play to make the field goal, you know, 45 or or closer, because he can make those. He can't make the ones outside of 50. But you didn't get that play.

You tried. It's not like you didn't try. If you weren't trying, they would have just lined it up, run it, and let the clock, you know, go down, then spiked it and put the field goal team out. It's not what they did. All right. Do you have anything else on our football team? Because we have other things to get to.

No, I have nothing else on the football team. All right. Let's take a break. We'll be back after these words from a few of our sponsors. Guys, everybody understands that from time to time, we have personal finance issues, banking relationship issues that include things like overdraft fees, missed payments, wishing you had ways to save more on what you earn. Well, Chime understands this. They understand that every dollar counts.

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Well, I've told you many times about different things about Shelly's backroom at 1331 F Street Northwest in the district. I've gone over some of the features of their food menu, which is great. I've gone over some of the features of their cigar menu, which, you know, they have a selection of the top 25 cigars as picked by Cigar Officianado magazine. Right. And I've gone over parts of their drink menu before their selection of beers, which is my you know, it would tend to be my favorite, and their selections of various whiskeys.

I've never gone over their wine selection. Are you a wine drinker? I am a wine drinker, but I am not a wine person. My wife is, to a certain degree, I'm not. Okay, well, just like everything else about Shelley's background, they have an excellent selection of wines from all around the world, from Italy, New Zealand. They have a wine from Germany, a white wine called Relax Reesling from Germany. They have a lot of good California wines, some great California wines, red wine like Joel Gott, Cabernet Savignon from California.

And they have, if you're ready to drop some money, they have bottles of some very, very exclusive pricey wines, like the Opus one red land from California. I'm not going to tell you how much that costs, but it costs a lot more than what I'm getting paid to do. $500. Close. Wow. Very good.

Very good. What is it? How close? Am I lower high? You're just $20 off. Okay. $4.80 or $5.20? $5.20.

Okay. But that gives you an idea. Shelly's has something for everybody. Yeah, they do. Okay. Would that be for us? Would that be for us? If you were buying it would be. That would be for us if you were picking it up. But I won't hold my breath on that one. Yeah. Continue.

Yeah. I mean, I'm not a wine drinker when I was in Italy. I drank a lot of wine because in Rome kind of thing. And I like red wines. Didn't you drink a lot of wine in Spain when you summer in Spain? Listen, we had a beer tap in the house Oh, that's right, you had the beer tap in the house Right from the bartender cousin No, I didn't drink a lot of wine But I drank a lot of beer

Yeah In the morning, in the evening, and at night Nice You can find out more about their selection of wines And other drinks By going to shelley's backroom.com The best, Shelly's Backroom. So Tommy, over the weekend,

Jim Smith, who is the new athletic director at Maryland, had him on the show right before the losing streak began. They were 4-0. They were getting ready to play Washington, and I had them on the show, and there was a lot of excitement. If they beat Washington, they're going to be 5-0, they're going to be ranked, but they've lost six in a row. They had a big lead against Washington, blew it, and they're now 4 and 6, with two

games left, including Michigan on Saturday and then at Michigan State. So lots of conversation over the last few weeks about Mike Loxley. We talked about him on the show last week. He had been asked at his press conference as to whether or not he thought his job was on the line here at the end of the year. He said, no. And he was asked, do you think you deserve to be back? And he said, yes. I talked about how, you know, there's a $13 million buyout of Loxley's contract, hardly a lot in today's world.

I mean, James Franklin, 50 million at Penn State. He's now the new head coach or will be at Virginia Tech. By the way, for you Hokie fans who listen, I know there are many of you, I think it's a good hire. I mean, James Franklin wins, including at Vanderbilt. You know, I just think that you're going to lose to a lot of ranked teams and not eventually get over the top. But Virginia Tech football has been, you know, in a real, real downturn in recent years.

So anyway, the new athletic director, Jim Smith, wrote a letter to, you know, an open letter to Terp Nation. I'm going to read some of it to you. In my first five months as your athletic director, I've come to understand and deeply appreciate what Maryland Pride truly means. I have quickly grown to love this university, our athletics department, our supporters, our fans, our staff, and most importantly, our student athletes. They are the lifeblood of everything we do. I stepped into this role at a time when the landscape of college athletics and college football in particular is undergoing unprecedented change. Over just the last two years, the expectations, requirements, and competitive realities of the Big Ten have shifted dramatically. To compete at the highest level, we must support and resource Maryland football in the same way our Big Ten peers do.

A level playing field requires a level commitment. Coach Locksley bleeds Maryland has deep. and unmatched ties to the DMV, and he has led this program to success unprecedented in our 133-year football history, including three consecutive bowl victories with three straight winning seasons from 2021 to 2023. Those accomplishments demonstrate with this program is capable of when aligned and supported. I'm going to come back to this paragraph shortly. Let me just conclude with the next paragraph. But in the two short years since that run,

the entire environment of college athletics has transformed. To continue building on this foundation, Coach Locksley needs and deserves the full support of our department, our university, and all of Terp Nation. We are fully committed to giving him and our student athletes the resources and investments necessary to succeed. I've worked closely with Coach Locksley to rapidly strengthen our NIL support for 2026 and beyond with a clear and focused effort on roster retention, recruiting, and being highly competitive in the transfer portal.

So the athletic director announced to Maryland fans that Mike Loxley is coming back for 2026. Real quickly, when he's talking about resourcing the football department, he talked about that. when he was on with me. And he said something I didn't even know that Maryland just started or is about to just begin to receive an equal share of revenue as a Big Ten member, that they have not been getting a full share. It was part of the agreement when they joined the Big Ten. It was going to take a lot of time. So Marilyn and Rutgers starting, I think, in this upcoming year, we'll get their full Big Ten shared, the same share that every other Big Ten school gets. from media dollars, et cetera. And, you know, a lot of the Pact 12 schools, you know, the

USC, UCLA, Oregon, Oregon, Oregon in Washington, they're going to have to wait a few years before they get their full share. Anyway, so real quickly, I said this last week, I don't have a problem with either way. I don't think Mike Loxley is a great coach by any stretch of the imagination. I've talked about that many times, despite the fact that some of you say that I have kissed his ass for the last several years. That's just not true. I have praised him for things that I thought he was worthy of praise, like being a phenomenal recruiter, like having three straight seasons, which were at least winning seasons, you know, coming off what was, you know, a tragic circumstance that cost a player his life and everything that was happening in the Maryland

football program when he took it over. But, you know, we've talked about how his teams are completely undisciplined, you know, year and year out, way up there on the list of penalized teams. You know, they struggle with the simplest of clock management stuff and all of that stuff. But I do like Mike. I think he's a phenomenal leader and communicator and clearly a great recruiter. Getting top players to come to Maryland to play for Maryland football, I mean, they're one of the weakest Power 4 football schools. I can't think of one that's actually worse

in terms of support, fan support, et cetera. Now, so I'm fine with how it ends. He's got terrific freshman players. If they all come back, hopefully they do, they'll have a chance to be a decent team next year. They're not going to be Ohio

State. They're not going to be Michigan. They're not going to beat Indiana. I don't think they're going to be Indiana. I don't see them being an overachieving type of deal. But who knows? Because they do have some talent and if they can bring it back, maybe next year will be his year. I hope so.

I want them to be good. I love when Maryland football is good. Now, this paragraph that I said I was going to come back to where the athletic director says, Coach Loxley bleeds Maryland has deep and unmatched ties to the DMV, which, by the way, is true. I mean, Mike is a local. He's a DMV guy. He grew up going to Maryland games.

He followed Maryland. He coached for Ralph. He was a part of the program when Ralph Friesian was here. But when Jim Smith writes, he has led this program to success unprecedented in our 133-year football history. Who missed the edit on that one? I know.

Who knew this was the golden age of Maryland football? I mean, we used to say this about the skins like you got to have somebody in the room that can check the copy before it goes out to say oh no no no this is wrong this is completely wrong and you're going to look foolish no don't do this because let me explain why this will not be received well they call it institutional knowledge institutional knowledge, which why would Mike, why would he have it? He doesn't have, Jim Smith doesn't have the institutional knowledge, but somebody should have looked at this letter and said, yeah, no, pretty good letter. We got to, we're going to have to edit out this paragraph. You can talk about Locksley, Bleeding Merrill and the whole thing, but this program has not gone through unprecedented success. In fact, just so you know, Jim, Mike's record at Maryland is 37 and 40 is 39 and 73 I'm sorry he's 37 and 47 overall at Maryland and 17 and 46 in the big 10 no that's not a misprint he's won 17 and lost 46 in the big 10 he's not had one winning big 10 season he's gone 4 and 5

twice for his best finish, and that was in the Big Ten East at fourth, among six teams or whatever it was, seven teams, six teams, seven, I guess it was. Yeah, they went to three bowl games as a six and six team, a seven and five team and a seven and five team. And they won all three. I was excited that they were in the bowl games. It was nice to have some bowl games back. But this is not unprecedented success. It's a disaster. It's what 99 95 out of 100 coaches would have been fired two years ago for this record. This record says all you need to know about what the right decision in most cases is. This is unique.

You can't buy him out because you've got nobody that wants to pay the $13 million. You've got all these terrific freshman players. He's a great recruiter. And you don't feel like you've resourced the program adequately. So that's fine. I'm fine with giving him another shot. But the record says he should have been fired a few years ago. Now, you're not going to fire him off three straight winning seasons.

But he's going to go. He was 4 and 8, 1 in the Big 10 last year. He's 4 and 6, 1 in 6 in the Big 10 this year. By the way, I give him a chance against Michigan on Saturday. Just FYI. Yeah, Ralph Friedgen, in his, you know, 10 years in college. Park, seven bowl games in 10 years, five bowl wins, an ACC championship, 75 and 50 overall, 25 games above 500, six above 500 in the ACC, and the ACC is not the Big Ten. I understand

we're comparing apples to oranges. Don't even get me started on Bobby Ross or Jerry Claiborne and the success that they had. Or Tommy may remember Jim Tatum, who coached Maryland to a national championship in the 1950s. Yeah, that's just one of those things. You just got to check. You got to have somebody that can help you out. You know, we offered Jason Wright, you know, when he was making the chief blunder officer, we offered our help.

He would call me after he made the mistake, though. I don't think I've shared that with everybody. Yeah, there were a couple of us that would hear from them after the mistake was made. that, you know, whatever Sean Taylor mistake was made. And I told them, I said, don't call me after you've made the mistake and try to blame it on somebody else like Dan. Call me before and I'll be willing to help. They actually, I told you about this, right?

They sent me, he did ask me once to help before they made the mistake. They did that big wall out at FedEx Field where they had a lot of, it was kind of like a timeline of the franchise's glory years, I guess. I never saw it. And he said, would you help out by looking at the copy that they've come up with and let us know if it's all accurate? And he sent me all this stuff. And I spent a couple of hours and corrected at least 40% of it and sent it back.

And he thanked me. And I said, no problem. I mean, I'll be glad to help whenever you want. You've got to let people like me know before. Like, you know, Sean should not have been the next jersey that was retired. That was a big mistake. His jersey could have been retired eventually, but there were other jerseys that needed to be retired before Sean Taylor's. The one thing, by the way, I learned about that is that the people that were the most pissed off about that weren't fans.

They were the former players. Well, that makes sense. Former players. certainly understand that. We're so incensed with that. It was kind of a slap in their face. Yeah.

All right, we got a couple of other things, including a couple of anniversaries, not pleasant ones, but we'll get to those to finish up the show. Did you have a thought on Loxley? No, I mean, I'm a peripheral viewer. I mean,

you know, I've had the philosophy that you shouldn't just keep a guy into job just because you don't think you can get somebody better. He's easy to root for because he is, you know, an incredible kind of motivator, communicator, you know, that. He's not what you would call a great coach, game day X's and O is that kind of thing.

But, you know, he can be the C.E. coach, get really good coordinators, get funded, go out and get players, and with an expanded playoff, we've seen, look at Indiana and Vanderbilt, okay, two schools that have never been good in football. So things are more open for, you know, surprise programs, and Maryland would certainly be a surprise program to be good one year. So I'm not as incensed as many of you are that he was given another year. I was definitely, you know, just, um, it was humorous, the unprecedented success line in the letter. Jim Smith seems like a sharp guy, though. I'm going to tell you that for sure. And everybody that's met him thinks that. All right.

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Featured products include compounded drug products, which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness, or quality. Prescription required. See website for full details, restrictions, and important safety information. First and Dan, Riggins, flea flicker, back to the Fiseman. Thysman did a lot of trouble. And it was Lawrence Taylor who slammed Thysman to the ground at the 42-yard line. The blitz was on. That's not necessarily a good play to have called.

And quickly, Lawrence Taylor is up saying Thysman is hurt. And I don't believe Lawrence Taylor would have reacted that way unless Thysman is really hurt. 40 years ago, Tommy, tonight, Joe Thysman had his leg snapped on the flea flicker, where Riggins pitched it back to him here comes Lawrence Taylor the image of Lawrence Taylor still you know is indelible in everybody's minds that were around

back then I was at the game that Monday night November 18th, 1985 and yeah it's amazing that many years it ended Joe's career you know there was no coming back from that at 36 years old

he was two years removed from the league's MVP. Jay Schrader replaced him, came in. The second play from scrimmage threw a 44-yard pass to Art Monk, and the place was insane. But the hush that fell over that crowd, I remember, you know, there were no video screens with replays back then in 1985, but there was a guy, you know, a row or two in front of us that had one of those portable, you know, battery-powered black and whites. And everybody kind of kind of crowded around him to watch the replay, and you just saw it, and it was not pleasant. Man, Joe was a good NFL quarterback, you know? He really was a good NFL quarterback.

He was a great college player, too. I mean, I remember watching him playing college for Notre Dame. Yeah, yeah, great college player, just a terrific quarterback. He and Lawrence Taylor will be connected by that moment forever. You know, a couple of things about that game that maybe people don't realize. The starting left tackle that night was not Joe Jacoby. The starting left tackle in that game was Russ Grimm. He moved outside because Jacoby was out. Grim, one of the greatest guards in the history of the NFL, certainly in that era, and he's a Hall of Famer, as we know.

But on that particular night, the offensive line was not, your typical hogs. Here were your starting offensive linemen in that game for Washington. At center, Rick Donnelly, at left guard, Jeff Bostic. Because Grimm had to move over and play left tackle. On the right side was Ken Huff at right guard and Mark May at right tackle. So the hogs were a little bit panged up that particular year. year. They were going into that game, Washington was a five and five football team.

You know, keep in mind, right? Like 82 Super Bowl, 83 NFC champion lose in the Super Bowl. 84 win the division, lose in the divisional round at home to the Chicago Bears, the 84 Bears. And then 85, that season opened up with the cowboy fans singing Joe Thaisman, happy birthday. day in a 44 to 14 route on Monday night football. That season included the game that I referenced earlier, a 45-10 loss at Chicago. But they had started to get it together. After a 1-3 start, they had won 4 out of 6. They were back at 5 and 5, and this game against the Giants was a huge game in the division,

in the NFC, and Washington won the game. Jay Schrader came in, played well. They won the game 23 to 21, but Thysman was, you know, his career was over. And, you know, Joe has talked a lot about, you know, it took him a long time to ever get, and he never really got back to normal. He was such a great all-around athlete. Yeah. But, yeah, they, an amazing night for sure.

They went on that year to go 10 and 6, Tommy. Two Joe Gibbs seasons finished 10 and 6 without a playoff berth. So that was 40 years ago tonight. 50 years ago yesterday, November 17th, 1975, this from Frank, Frank writes, could you say a few words about the infamous touchdown catch that Mel Gray made against the Redskins, which was 50 years ago today. That was yesterday.

I still don't believe the call, and the time that has passed, thanks. So I do remember this game. These are some of the early memories of me as a child being a huge Redskins fan. This was 1975, Tommy. They were playing the Cardinals at Bush Stadium. They were up 17 to 10. It was fourth and ten with about 30 seconds to go in the game. And Jim Hart, who was the quarterback for the Cardinals,

threw a pass over the middle that was broken up to Mel Gray, broken up, not caught, fell to the turf, skins are celebrating. Game over, 17 to 10, win. By the way, the Cardinals were really good that year. The Cardinals, Cowboys, and Redskins were the three best teams in the division in the mid-70s for those that didn't know that. And then all of a sudden, the referees were huddling up on the side. And they come back and the referee goes to the middle of the field

and he puts his arms up signaling touchdown. And there was total confusion. Still to this day, we don't know what was said. We don't know why. You can watch the replay of it. Melgrade, like, this is so not a catch. Like he has it in his hands, but then it's immediately broken up and it falls to the turf. This was no possession.

This was no feet down. There was no football move. There was none of it. Like replay would have immediately overturned this catch. So they tied the game at 17. They went on to win the game 20 to 17 in overtime. And Washington missed the postseason that year by one game, that game. and that was really

that stopped George Allen had gone to the playoffs 71, 71, 72, 73, and 74 then 75 they missed it because of that play and then they were back in the playoffs in 76 so he made the playoffs in five of his first six seasons

in Washington with the one that he didn't make a total, you know, robbery at Bush Stadium in St. Louis. What teams were you watching in the mid-70s? The Jets? Jets. I was watching show Names, to try to get healthy every year.

Yeah. You know? Once in a while, he'd be healthy. They'd be really good. But the early 70s was the emergence of the Steelers in 72. The Raiders were continued to be good.

So the jets weren't too good And the jets haven't been too good since 1969 Just like Hotel California Right All right Did you have something to say about the Nats' new manager? Well, yesterday, Monday I had a full day busy

I went to the press conference yesterday at Nats Park To introduce the new Nats manager, Plate Boutera They had announced him a couple weeks ago but the day they announced him he had a baby his wife had a baby okay so they they waited a couple weeks to schedule the press conference and they had it yesterday uh i can tell you that he is he's small i mean he is and he gets smaller the closer you get to him you mean he's short short okay yes and he's thin okay there's not much too

but I have to say he's impressed a lot of people over the years in baseball. He was a minor league manager for four seasons in the Tampa Bay Rays organization won two championships

in single A when he was manager of the Charleston River dogs and they thought so highly of him they moved him into the front office where he became a director of play of personnel. And the race take player personnel pretty seriously.

That's how they survive, you know, on developing talent. So, you know, he's 33, the youngest manager since the twins hired Frank Quicilli in 1972 at 33. But there's a lot of strange thing hiring to have managers this year in baseball. You know, the Padres hired former relief pitcher. Craig Stammon, the Giants hired a college baseball coach Tony Vitello out of Tennessee.

So this kind of like falls in line with it. And again, the Geek Squad, it was very pleased because he's already sworn his allegiance to you know, Sabre Metrics and analytics. And he's only 33.

Right now in baseball, apparently according to the geeks, it's a curse that to be, you know, have any kind of age. and the younger you are, the better. But he probably would have been a manager, if not here, probably someplace else within the next couple years. He was considered a rising star.

I don't like Tobani, the guy who hired him, the president of baseball operations. But I'm not sure either of them still know what they're in for with this job. Okay. And let me point out the age thing that I keep reading about I went back

and I looked at every manager who has won the World Series in this century the average age is 55 years old okay let me just point that out everybody who thinks this 33 year old is the be all

end all right so you're not really you're impressed but you're I mean I'm looking right now just I wanted to see where the Nats kind of fell on next year's odds to win the world series. And I've got

my bookie opened right now. They are the last shot of all teams with the Colorado Rockies. They're the longest shot with the Rockies at 50 plus 50,000 to win the World Series. So they are considered to be heading into next year one of the two worst teams in baseball. Yeah. And, you know, Well, I'm not suggesting that, you know, they would win a World Series next year. I mean, I know this is all going to take time. It's about development. Yeah. And, again, he has, this is not like a guy who was Paul Tobani's teammate or friend from growing up.

They barely knew each other. Right. And Tobani still sought him out to hire him. So he has some special qualities that may make him the perfect fit. And here's also why he's a perfect fit for the job. He's probably very cheap. He probably doesn't cost much money with no major league experience and only 33 years old, which fits the learner's profile to a T.

Yeah. They like them cheap. I'm just skeptical of these two guys, I think, you know, the learners give them credit for getting two guys who are highly respected within the baseball industry. I just don't believe they're going to get the commitment they may have been promised by the family. Got it. The other thing I did yesterday was that from Washington, I drove all the way up to Baltimore. I went to Cooper's Tavern in Fells Point, and I got together with three baseball writer buddies, Dave Shinen, from the Post,

Dan Conley, who used to cover the Orioles for the Baltimore Sun and the Athletic and Rock Kubotko. who covers the Orioles for Masson. And we got together at Cooper's and basically had a celebration of the TV show Homicide. Okay, this is a show from the 90s, and they just started showing reruns on this network called Charge on cable. And we've been kind of texting each other about the shows, you know, our favorite shows. And we decided to all get together and talk about it.

And we did it at Cooper's, because at Cooper's on the wall, in Homicide, in the Homicide Room, they had a giant board with all the murder victims' names on them. The ones in red were unsolved. The ones in black were solved. I don't remember the show. Cooper's Tavern got that board, and it's hanging on the ceiling there. So, you know, it was four ballwriters getting together talking about homicide, telling some basis. ball press box stories and it was a real good time last night too so i didn't watch any of the monday night

football game no you didn't miss much the cowboys you know rolled if they beat the eagles on sunday people are going to start talking about them well i'm glad you had a good time i don't remember the show homicide to be honest with you uh in the 90s i remember nypd blue in the 90s i love that show um but i don't remember homicide so uh anything else from you i've got nothing else for you today, Bob. By the way, if you want to bet the nationals at plus 50,000 to win the World Series next year, I wouldn't suggest that you do that. But if you want to bet football this weekend, do it at my bookie and use my promo code, DC Reload for a 50% cash bonus. All right, I'll talk to you on Thursday. Okay. I'll be back tomorrow with Souter breaking down the film

from the Madrid game against the Dolphins. Thank you.