The Kevin Sheehan Show - Was Washington Attractive?

Episode Date: January 30, 2026

Kevin and Thom today debated the attractiveness of Washington's coordinator openings this off-season to open the show. Plenty more on Bill Belichick's first-ballot Hall of Fame snub and would Belichick be the choice for the guys if they needed one coach for one season. Thom's meet-up in Florida with a former Nats' skipper part of the show today as well. For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. The show's presenting sponsor is always Window Nation.

86690 Nation or Windonation.com if you need new windows. Tommy, this is a good one to open up the show. It's from Eddie C. Eddie C writes, Kevin, Tom, thanks for the diversion from real life. It's an hour or so of pure joy and hilarious. to hear Tom say that who would have guessed that he'd be the last columnist in town standing? And then Kevin quickly respond with, yeah, but nobody knows it. I hope you both never stop doing this.

And then he writes one more thing. Will Dan Quinn be coach here in 2027? Hell no. CEO coaches don't work anymore. I think Vrable's a CEO coach for all intents and purposes. and I believe his team is in the Super Bowl. Nick Siriani is kind of a CEO coach. He won the Super Bowl last year.

He doesn't call defensive plays or offensive plays. Thank you for that, Eddie. Yes, if the post-sports section meets its maker, Tom is the last guy in town at that paper. By the way, for those of you who don't know, called the Washington Times. That's right. Yeah, that's right.

That's right, buddy. I'm right. This from Lynn. Lynn writes, I listen to you on radio and on your podcast with Tom and others every day. I can't believe some of your callers. One week, they think the team better hire a defensive coordinator before they're all gone. And the next week, why didn't the team wait for Jim Schwartz? How do you do it?

I don't know that everybody was like so hell bent on getting a defense. defensive coordinator hired because we feared we'd miss out. But I do think that with Jim Schwartz potentially available, although he is under contract in Cleveland for another season as the defensive coordinator, he's just going to have to work for Todd Monkin, who they hired to be the head coach. I do think that some fans would say, man, that would have been a great get. He was one of first people that I thought of way back, you know, when they demoted Joe Witt Jr. Tommy because it didn't look like Stefanski would survive. And I thought if the whole staff goes with him, you go get Jim Schwartz, somebody like that. But I don't know, what we learned about

this process with the defensive coordinator is that the job wasn't that, you know, attractive because of the lack of talent. I think we learned that to a certain degree. Jonathan Gannon, I think certainly could have come here if he had wanted to, but he chose Green Bay, a team with more talent. So, yeah. You know what's funny things have changed since Dan Quinn before he even coached a game for this team, went on the radio, went on Team 980, and basically said, people are jumping at the chance to join this coaching staff.

it's great. People are dying to be part of this what we're doing here. I don't think that's the case anymore. Well, I think it's the case on offense. Uh-huh. Yeah. But not on defense.

Well, yeah, because do you know how many there were two days ago 12 defensive coordinator openings. This has been a crazy offseason with 10 head coaching openings, and then all of the additional, not just with the new head coaches, all of the additional DCs and OCs that are open. This is coaching heaven. This is where everyone wants to be.

Well, who said that? Quinn. He didn't call it coaching heaven. This is where everybody needs to be. No, I call the coaching heaven. Okay. Okay, I'll read you the quote. Read me the quote.

You said he said it on Team 980? Did he say it to me? Yes. No, he didn't say it to you. Why would he say it? to you. Well, because I'm the only one that I think on this station has had him on the show. No, no, I don't think it was Chris Russell. Okay.

What's really cool for you and for the fan base, there are people that really, really want to be here. I think that should speak to where this organization is headed and what's going to go down because people feel that energy that's going to come on behind the scenes. fans would be really pumped to know. People are really pushing to be part of this. When did he say that after last year or before? No, that was before he even coached the game. Really?

Yes. I don't remember that. I mean, I'm not disputing it. I'm not disputing it. I'm not disputing it. I just don't remember that. What I do remember very specifically was the survey that Ben does every summer, Ben Standing does with NFL agents.

And last summer survey was essentially that this is coaching heaven, that this is, you know, heaven for players and coaches and front office people, that the whole culture, in terms of the perception from agents around the league, was that Washington is a great place to be now where for so long it wasn't. I do specifically remember that from last summer, and it is. The culture is completely different. Would you dispute that? I know you're being partially sarcastic because they didn't get,

because they hired two guys that haven't done it before, but we've seen other organizations hire a lot of, you know, first timers this go around. I mean. But I know, but I don't care about other organizations. I only care about, I would only care about the one I'm writing about, and that's in Washington. Yeah.

And there has been a dramatic change in the perception of this organization. organization again, yet again. No, that's not true. That's not true. I totally disagree with that. You think that now the perception is that it's back to where it was before Quinn got here? No. No, it's totally different. They just think of football now. Not all the other stuff that they used to think at. It's just football. Well, what's wrong with the football?

They couldn't get anyone to take this job, this defensive coordinator job. They hired the understudy in Minnesota. Come on, Tommy. Who was available to take this job? Jonathan Gannon. Yes, that would be the one example of a guy that literally was not employed. Brian Flores. Brian Flores had a significant offer to stay where he was.

Why didn't he get a better offer in Washington? Well, maybe he did. I don't know that he didn't, but he's been coaching those guys for three years. they have a very good defense, and apparently they gave him a huge raise to stay. That's not a good example. The Gannon example is fine. The Gannon example is fine. A better example would be somebody like Dinnard Wilson.

A guy who's from here went to Maryland, has been a defensive coordinator at Tennessee. And they did interview him. I don't know if Washington was interested or not. So I don't know that. But if they were, and he chose the Giants over Washington, then you would get into, well, yeah, like with Gannon, the team's just better on defense. And, you know, and in New York, let's face it,

he's working with a guy in Harbaugh that just arrived. So there's total coach security, head coach security, as there is, by the way, in Green Bay where Lafleur got an extension. And so the seat, you know, might be. perceived to be a little bit warm. I'm not saying that people are looking at this place saying that, oh, this is the best football situation there is. I would say that their offensive coordinator positions certainly would have been of interest

to a lot of people. But like I said, they didn't open that one up. Exactly. They didn't. And that's the difference between the defensive coordinator and offensive coordinator hires. I mean, they had their guy. They knew when they moved on from Kingsbury that it was going.

going to be blow. Now, the McDaniel thing may have thrown, you know, a brief wrinkle into it. And I'm sure Quinn spoke to McDaniel. And, you know, he was going to have to wait and then potentially risk losing blout. They didn't want to do that. Durante Jones, by the way, which what I've learned here over the last, you know, few days, as I think all of you listeners have learned if you've been reading, this was a guy that a lot of people, it's not the blow conversation. I'm not saying that people said he's the next great, you know, thing. But rarely do you hear that with defensive coordinators as much as offensive coordinators anyway. But he certainly had a lot of fans around the league. And people thought that he was going to get a job pretty quickly.

And he was interviewed for one last year. And he was interviewed multiple times for a job this year. I know. So, yeah, I, I, is it, what it was after they were 12 and 5 if they had had openings with the season they had last year? No, but this year, you know, you add a lot of competition into the mix, man. I mean, there were, as of two days ago, 12 defensive coordinator vacancies. 12. That's crazy.

Again, again, the head coach before he even coached the game that people are doing everything they can to come coach here. Okay. I'll trust you. I don't ever remember referencing that quote at all. Don't remember hearing it. Don't remember referencing it. I don't need to Google it. I trust you, of course. But I think it's interesting, like, of the defensive coordinators that have been, you know, hired so far this year, there are several of them that are first timers. Christian Parker, the Cowboys

had a defensive coordinator opening and they hired a guy from Philadelphia that's never done it before. You also have the guy in in, hold on, I had it in front of me. Brian Duke.

Brian Duke or in New York has never done it before. I would never call Dallas coaching heaven. Okay. Or the Jet. Chris O'Leary. The new defense coordinator for a very good defense, talented defense, the Chargers, is Chris O'Leary. You know where he just came from? Western Michigan. He was the defensive coordinator in 2025

at Western Michigan. Prior to that, he had been a position coach with the Chargers in 24, and then in college at Notre Dame at position coach and Florida State. So a first time NFL defensive coordinator hire there. So, you know, it's a lot of openings and a lot of guys are getting talked to and a lot of people are like, can I wait around for Rahim Morris? Can I wait around to see if Jim Schwartz can get out of the contract? Or do I have to kind of make a move with a guy that, in Durante Jones, that may have had other opportunities with all of these openings? Again, I would say the offensive coordinator conversations, completely different. I think they had their guy.

You know, that was, if Blow's not on the staff, Kingsbury might still be here. Speaking of... Speaking of him... On the other hand, blouse does not nearly cost what Mike McDaniel would cost.

I don't think that's an issue at all. I know. I don't think that's an issue at all. I've essentially been... It's not an issue for you. essentially been told... But it might be an issue for the candidates. I've essentially been told about some of the conversations that you and I have had together. Not that we've said that this was it, but we've contemplated all of the reasons why they didn't spend money in the first two years of

free agency and that they haven't really spent big money on any contract yet, other than the long-term commitment they made to cause me. The Terry commitment really is just a one-year contract extension. I had Nikki on the show yesterday, on the podcast yesterday, and she said they really not only need one receiver, they kind of need two because there's no way that even if Terry plays great, that they're going to keep him under the current deal because the plan was to get out of it after 2026. Now, they could always restructure with Terry, but can you imagine going through that process with him and his agent next offseason? But anyway, I digress. Coaches are different, though. There's no salary cap when it comes to coaches. I know that.

You can sign as big a check as you want for the guy you want. Yeah. But you and I have contemplated reasons why they haven't spent, et cetera, et cetera. And they're going to spend on Tunsell. That's going to be the first big deal. And, you know, in some of those conversations we've had, recently, I was just kind of told that's not an issue at all. The issue was just how many holes needed to be filled when they got here.

They were dipping their toes that first year, really focused on a lot of other things like culture change. They obviously ended up having a year that they didn't anticipate to having in the first year in the recalibration year. And they did kind of go for it with respect to trades. took on some big contracts, you know, with Latimore and Tunsell, which is true. But, yeah, I don't think, I think they got their guy on offense. And I think on defense, they got a guy that they liked, but he wasn't certainly their first choice.

I think if Flores had been available, they would have loved that, but I don't think he was available. I think Gannon was available, and Gannon likely chose Green Bay. And then I think the guy that maybe first on the list once Joe Witt Jr. was demoted before the Madrid game was probably Ulbrick in Atlanta. I think that Quinn thinks very highly of him. He was on his staff in Atlanta. He did a phenomenal job this year with the Falcons. And Rahim got fired, but they kept Ulbrick. Stefansky kept Ulbrick in Atlanta because Ulbrick is considered to be very good. And I think if he had become available, I actually think more so than anybody else, he'd already, he would have been named. If he had gotten boomed at the same time Rahim Morrist did, if the whole staff had been fired,

I think Jeff Ulbrook would be our defensive coordinator right now. Think about this for a minute. Yeah. Just, you know, venture into the possibilities of what this could have been if you, if you, you know, just ignore some of the circumstances. Mike McDaniel and Jim Schwartz. That's coaching heaven right there. It is. I mean, if you wanted to win the press conference,

that would win the press conference. No doubt. You know, they were supposed to have a press conference this week. In fact, I think they were, they had it kind of on the docket. They didn't put out an email about it, but I think they were planning on doing something today or tomorrow for Quinn to kind of, you know, lay out the whole new coaching staff. But it's still, you know, it's still in the works.

Today and Jeremy Fowler reported this about an hour ago, Washington assistant coach Jason Simmons interviewed for the Steelers defensive coordinator job as expected to join the staff in a prominent defensive role per sources. This would be a reunion for Simmons. Patrick Graham and Mike McCarthy from Green Bay. So Simmons is leaving. I think there's still a thought that Brian Johnson will end up leaving because he got passed over, I guess, for the coordinator job.

He's a previous offensive coordinator in Philadelphia, and he's interviewing for some of these offensive coordinator jobs that are still open. Which brings me to this, unless you want to continue on this, they're not a desirable place for, coaches take that you have right now. Do you want to continue? Is there anything left on the bone for that? No, no, let's say.

Let's move on. Because what's interesting about Todd Munkin getting the Cleveland job is that John Harbaugh, according to reports, expected Munkin to join him in New York. You know, John Harbaugh is a CEO coach. He does not coach offense or defense. he needs an offensive coordinator badly to go, you know, to develop Jackson Dart, to develop an offensive, you know, identity, etc., because that's where they have struggled. And they were convinced that Munkin was going there. So they're back to the drawing board, at least according to some of the reporting out there.

Schefter said it this morning on the Greenberg show. Meantime, Philadelphia is still without an offensive coordinator. You know, and Schaefter said this morning, I thought it was interesting because I do think that the perception of the offensive coordinator position in Philadelphia is that nobody wants it because it's just, you know, the A.J. Brown, the quarterback, the system, the whole thing, working for Siriani, the whole thing. But Shefter really indicated that actually they have like, they've interviewed eight candidates that are still out there. and they're actually choosing more so than, you know, desperate to pick somebody. We'll see. But my God, Tommy, there are so many vacant OC spots. Here they are right now.

I just pulled up the list. The Jets, the Ravens. I still think Kingsbury to the Ravens makes the most sense. Cleveland, although Monkens now the head coach. McCarthy and Pittsburgh actually doesn't have an OC yet, even though he's an offensive head coach. Sean Payton just fired his offensive coordinator like it was his fault that the backup quarterback had to play in the AFC championship game.

The Raiders haven't hired their head coach yet, so they'll have an offensive coordinator opening. Philly, the Giants, and then of course the Cardinals who have yet to hire their head coach. I'm sure somebody would prove me wrong by saying, yeah, you know, 2009, there were 13 head coach, coaching openings and all of these different coordinator openings.

But this seems like a lot of openings and a lot of coaching change for one cycle, don't you think? Yes. Yes, it does. It's very unusual. It's really, I mean, amazing out there right now. And it sounds like Clint Kubiak is going to have his choice of Arizona or the Raiders, the offensive coordinator in Seattle. I'm very interested about Kingsbury

because is it possible that even with all of this availability, he doesn't get hired? He shouldn't be overly expensive because he's still getting Arizona head coaching money. Is he getting Washington money? No. No, I think that it was a two-year deal. I think so.

You know what? That's something to look into because it would certainly dispel any sort of issue related to paying people. I wanted to read this as well. Oh, you know what? Speaking of offensive coordinators, I did get this from Jalen and D.C., and I forget if I read this on the podcast or not. Sheehan, you're still sure about Eric B. Enemy? Looks like Mahomes and Reed needed him a bit more than they thought.

thought they did L.O.L. So Eric B. Enemy, you know, got hired by Andy Reid to be the offensive coordinator again. Did you know that? I know. Oh, I know. Yeah. The reason for it is that Matt Nagy apparently told Andy Reid before the season, I don't want to do this anymore, meaning be the offensive coordinator without play calling responsibilities. And he told Andy Reid before the season, this is going to be the last year that I do this. Because when you're Andy Reade, Reed's offensive coordinator, like, you know, Kyle's or Sean's or a lot of different, you know, head coaches, offensive head coaches, you don't get to call plays. Now, Matt Nagy's not gotten a job yet as a play caller anywhere or as a head coach anywhere, so we'll see what happens. But Andy Reed hired

back Eric B. Enemy and basically the same role he had before he came to Washington. So, yeah, Jalen, I don't know that they really need him. But there's a relationship there with all of the people in Kansas City. And maybe that's the best role for him. I know that, but you got it. Let's be honest here. Let's be honest.

Kind of a mystery that he is so well thought of there because he was a disaster here. Well, and nobody else in the league wanted to hire him. Nobody did. Yeah. He interviewed with about, you know, 18 different places. He could wait for him to get out of here. Could not wait. I mean, Ron Rivera literally threw him under the bus before their first game.

Remember? About how people were complaining about him during training camp? Complaining about him. Yeah. Yeah. Remember, his big claim, the fame was telling the players they couldn't wear their hats backward. Yeah. And had the long meetings.

I don't get the whole can't, the whole chief thing. and I don't get why he is like the guy that so many people hold up as being, you know, that's true they don't. They don't, I think after the Washington thing, everybody, I mean, I still find that to be, I just don't understand why when they hired him,

people in town thought that it was a coup, thought that they had literally pulled off a caper when literally he had interviewed for two years with like 18 different teams for head coach, coordinator, and not one offer came his way. Literally not one team in the league other than Kansas City wanted to employ him. And in that moment, Kansas City didn't want to employ him. I still think and maintain this.

Ron Rivera as a lame duck coach was doing his good friend Andy Reed is solid and giving Bienaimi a shot to BOC. And then handed him Sam Howl. Here, work with the guy that I didn't even want to play in the season finale the year before. But my whole fan base thinks is the next Steve Young, right-handed version. All right. Should we talk about Belichick? I want to hear your thoughts.

You're a Hall of Fame voter in another sport. So. I know. Let's do it, baby. We'll do it right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, I've talked a lot about chime over the last year. It's just a much smarter way to bank. I mean, it's a situation where you're finally going to feel like the bank is on your side. You'll be able to dodge all of those ridiculous fees. You'll get your paycheck early all the time.

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If you've been thinking about new windows, act now. Call them at 866.9 Nation, or head, to Windonation.com for your fast-free in-home estimate. All right, Tommy, Bill Belichick, you're a Hall of Fame baseball voter. I have no idea what you think of this. I talked about it a little bit yesterday, but said I wanted to save much of the conversation for today with you. So Bill Belichick, not a first ballot Hall of Famer.

You say what? Well, it's ridiculous. I mean, I have this philosophy that in most cases, if you are so good that they can't ignore you, they can't ignore you, but this is a personal thing. This is obvious, look, it's a ridiculous thing that Bill Belichick wouldn't be in Hall fame. It's a ridiculous process the way to pro football Hall fame votes. that said, people are human beings. And if you piss on enough people along the way, you're going to have enemies.

It doesn't excuse what they did. Not at all. I mean, that should not factor in to whether or not you vote for a guy for the Hall of Fame, but people are human. And Bill Belichick has a lot of enemies out there. But this is ridiculous. And I think it really exposes

the system, which basically some voters said that, you know, because of this selection in the group that he was in, they were limited as to how many people they could pick. Yeah. There was one voter who said that he voted for a couple of players, like Roger Craig and Ken Anderson and Elsie Greenwood. Because they had been waited for years to get in. and I kind of understand that. I don't think I would have not included Bill Belichick in my trio. You know, but I sort of understand that,

but that shouldn't be limited like that. And this is one of the reasons why Jacoby can't get in because it's so hard to get through this gauntlet that they've got of, you know, of contributors and Veterans Committee. I mean, if this backs up the whole coaching thing, now Shanahan's not good at it. Right. probably get in for a couple years at all.

Shanahan, Holmgren, Cofflin, now I'll have to wait at least another year, because Belichick will certainly get in next year. Yeah. So it's really, if it changes the system to open it up a little more, and then the fact is,

well, they don't do it anymore. They don't meet in a room, and they do it all via Zoom, I think, now. They started with COVID and did that, but that somebody has to stand, and make a presentation for each particular candidate. It's kind of ridiculous. I mean, a baseball hall fame, for all its critics,

you get a ballot in the mail, each voter, they study it, they check off who they want, they send it in, that's the process. And most of those votes are made public. In fact, I think after two weeks after the vote is announced, I think they're all made public after that. So they need to be transparent, and they need to be more open in the ability of some of these guys who are well-deserved All-famers to get in. Right. But all that said, Bill Belichick should be in Hall-Fame, like now.

How does it work in baseball? How do you continue to be a Hall of Fame voter? Do you have to, I mean, is there a chance that one year they'll say, sorry, you've been replaced as a Hall of Fame voter? How does it work? Well, you have to be an active member. Okay, you have to show up for games sometimes. You have to have an active but baseball writers association of America membership. Like, if I was, uh, uh, and actually, not just beyond that, actually there are some voters who I think, who are,

retired writers who still vote. Okay. So I'm not quite sure how that is weeded out. You know, I'm still an active member, so I still have my vote. And, but I can't fathom that Bosz...

You know, it's funny. I wonder if Boswell has a vote. Because when he worked for the post, they did not let, they did not let those guys vote. They thought it was a conflict of interest. So none of the post baseball writers ever

vote for the Hall fame. I don't get it. Why? What am I missing? Because, you know, you're voting on people, you're affecting the careers of people that you may have covered or covered or cover along the way. Why? Because they have, they're in a baseball market?

No. No. Let's say, let's say if, uh, let's say you covered Ryan Zimmerman as a player. Right. Okay. And then he comes up for the Hall of Fame. Okay, you're going to affect his future, his financial future, if you vote for him for the Hall of Fame. And there's a lot of people who think writers have no business doing that.

I certainly understand that argument. I just really like voting for the Hall of Fame, so I'm not going to give it up. So I'm still not getting this. So, you know, slow reading class here for a moment. You specifically cited Boz, and you said, I don't even know if Boz had a Hall of Fame vote because they didn't want guys from the Post voting on Hall of Fame people. Any awards? They don't let them vote for any awards.

But it's not specific to the Post. It's specific to writers in general that cover the sports? No, it's specific to the Post. I don't, why? Well, because that's what the post, that's the rules at the post. Oh, oh, my. Okay, God. The Post had those rules.

I thought you were saying the Hall of Fame was stopping the Post or Tom Boswell from being, yeah, I did not, okay, got it. The Post had those rules for its writers. Really? Okay. I mean, I think. I'm wondering now that Boss has retired if he votes. Oh.

I'd be kind of curious. He should. He should have a vote. Yeah. Hell, he's in the Hall of Fame. He just got voted in in the writer section. He just won the Writers' Award last year. So,

so, so that's what, that's what happens. So I don't know if I, like, if I'm, when I'm done, I get an honorary membership card as a baseball writer.

You know, a lifetime thing. That's for the rest of my life, which means I can still go to any ballpark, any major league ballpark in the country, and get in the press box. You know, I'm looking at the 50 voters for the NFL Hall of Fame. And you can correct me if I'm wrong on some of these writers who are Hall of Fame voters, but they're older, I'm pretty sure. And next to their name is something called Talk of Fame Network, Rick Gosselin, Ron Borges, and then there was one, Clark Judge.

I mean, I don't know if these people still cover the league or not. Listen, listen, well, they don't necessarily cover the league, but they covered these guys who they're going to vote. Rick Goslin is considered one of the great football historians in the business. Okay. And actually, he's friends with Belichick. Belichick has a lot of respect for him. And Borges, I know, you know, covered the Patriots.

it's for years. So they actually are probably more qualified to vote on some of these guys than the ones who are still active. Yeah, I'm not suggesting that. I'm just wondering because they're retired. They're not actually, I don't think they're covering the league or covering teams. They might be. My question to you would be, for those voters, and it was at least 11, it may have been more than 11,

because, I mean, Gary Myers said this to me yesterday. He's a Hall of Fame voter when he was on with me. He said, everybody's just assuming it's 11 because it wasn't 40, so you know it was 39 that voted yes at least, but it may have been more. But my question to you would be, would you punish those voters for not voting for Bill Belichick, maybe the most obvious selection, certainly from a coaching standpoint ever? No. I wouldn't punish him. I changed the system. So you don't put people into this position.

There's some people that didn't vote for Belichick, not because of Belichick. I know that. But some did. Some passed on it because of pettiness, because they didn't like the way. No, I'm not going to witch hunt. You're not. I'm not going to do that. Shefter said this morning, just, you know, taking out. Adam Schaefter at his word, but he said from his conversations, he believes that SpyGate and DeflateGate Gate had very little to do with it. Those that voted against it, for the most part, didn't like Belichick and didn't like the way he treated the media.

I find that difficult to leave. I've always used Eddie Murray as an example for this in baseball. He was difficult with the media. Yeah. Nobody pissed on the media more than Eddie Murray did. Right. Okay. And he got voted in first ballot. Yeah. You know, Barry Bond has not gotten in the Hall fame because of his steroid use,

not because the media didn't like him. It was the media that kept voting him the MVP when he was playing. So if that's happened, I'd be very disappointed if you didn't vote for somebody because they treated you like guards. But again, the human beings. You know, there's a couple of other things. Number one, I don't think I said this yesterday, but Bill Belichick is such an NFL historian. He loves the history of the league.

When he did that NFL Top 100 show, remember they had, you know, hour-long episodes each week with the next 10 players. Oh, I remember that. I remember those. He was so good on that show. So good. And I've read over the last 24 hours that, you know, other people have said the same thing, that nobody reveres the history of the sport and the Hall of Fame itself more than Belichick does, which makes it ironic.

The other thing that I just want to say, and I'm wondering if you feel the same, you know, what you've heard from a lot of players and coaches specifically, is this is their opportunity to say, why do we allow media people to do anything? Why do we allow media people to vote on this? And by the way, the 50 NFL voters do include some former coaches, former players, Tony Dungey's a voter, Dan Fouts is a voter, James Lofton is a voter. Bill Pollian, former GM, is a voter. He's been at the center of this controversy because there were reports that Pollian tried to influence,

voters not to vote for Belichick to sort of punish him for SpyGate and Deflakeate and make him wait a year. He totally denies that. But there's this backlash because they messed it up so badly. Like this is an all-time memorable mess-up when it comes to a Hall of Fame vote. I can't think of... It's a dramatic moment for the Hall of Fame right now. And so it just gives license to a lot of people that have never been in media, players and coaches alike, to do what I think they've always felt, which is piss all over media members. And by the way, I would suggest that it's a lot of the, like, I'm looking at some of these names. I feel totally comfortable with Ira Kaufman voting for the NFL Hall of Fame.

He is an NFL historian. He was in New York for a while, but he's been in Tampa for a long time. now. I'm looking through the list of names here. I mean, Clark Judge, you mentioned, Ron Borgas, Rick Gosselin. These are all legendary NFL guys. I have more faith in them as NFL historians to do the right thing than I do in a lot of players and coaches. With that said, they soiled that that image that some have, but enhance the image that others have that they don't know what they're talking about. Yes, they did.

Yes, they did. It's damage. There's a lot of damage done by Belichick not being voted in the Hall of Fame this time. Look, I always tell people that you want to see some bad voting. Let the players vote. Exactly. They'll vote for their friends. Yep.

They'll vote for their agent's clients. Totally agree. So, I mean, they're angel. Vote for these guys. They're your client brothers, and they'll vote for them. Yeah. So, I mean, players are the worst when it comes to this stuff. Yeah.

But, you know, the... Go ahead. Go ahead. No, I was going to say that, you know, the Pro Bowl is a bit of a sham because, you know, it's fans, its players, and it's media. And people put more stock into the Associated Press, you know, you know, all pro team every year. But, you know, some of those reporters, you know, they cover teams.

I think if you're covering a team, you're at a disadvantage in a given year. I'm not saying over a lifetime of covering a team or teams, plural, that you're at a disadvantage because you end up seeing a lot of teams. But in a given year, if you are just covering one team, you miss a lot of the rest of the league. It's hard. I don't know how hard it is. When I covered baseball as a beatwriter, I had a pretty good idea of everybody who was on every team.

Yeah. There's also 162 of them. It's also every night, and there's also a lot more opportunity for you to watch those other players and watch those other teams because of all of the games. In the NFL, everybody's playing at the same time generally. and there are only 17 of them. And I think when you're on a beat and you're covering one team,

you're at a disadvantage in sort of evaluating the rest of the league in that particular year. But anyway, what else on Belichick? I mean, here's the thing that's kind of interesting, Tommy, is that I think resume-wise, like it's not even close, right? Resumay-wise, he's the greatest coach that's ever lived. I mean, just nine Super Bowl trips, six Super Bowl wins, two Super Bowls as a coordinator, all of that. But he wouldn't be my number one. I did this on radio today, and I'll just ask you, you've got one season, one coach, you don't have elite talent, you have good talent.

Who are you picking? Actually, hold off on that answer. I want you to answer that, and I'm going to answer that when we come back after these words from a few of our sponsors. If you want to bet the big game a week from Sunday between New England and Seattle, the place to do it is MyBooky. If you go to MyBooky.com or MyBooky.orgy.orgie. And use my promo code DC Reload, MyBooky will give you a 50% cash bonus. That means if you deposit, say, $100, they'll add another $50 into your account.

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the best number and the best price. MyBooky.com or MyBooky.ag promo code DC reload. So Tommy, one coach, one season, good talent, you don't have great talent. Who are you picking? Joe Gibbs. It's not a bad choice. No give. Not a bad choice. I asked Gary Myers that question yesterday. He said Bill Parcells.

And as much as I love Gibbs, and he'd be my number two, Shula's my number one. I just always thought that Shula's teams were better than the parts. And I know that it's easy to say he never won a Super Bowl with one of the greatest quarterbacks that ever lived. And it's true. That team was all Dan Marino. They never had great defenses with Marino.

They never had a good running game with Marino. He had great defenses on his two Super Bowl winning teams in 72 and 73, where Bob Greasy and Earl Morrill were the quarterbacks. He had, you know, he coached David Woodley to a Super Bowl against Washington in Super Bowl. I know. In Super Bowl 17. I always felt like Shulis teams were always the best when it came to just discipline, clock management, game management, all of that stuff.

But Gibbs... But you could argue he lost the biggest game of his life. To the Jets. Yeah. Yeah, they were just a slight favorite. 18 and a half points. Super Bowl 3 for those that don't know what we're talking about. I mean, not a bad choice.

I mean, I'm not going to, you know, it's not a, I mean, it's a good choice, but he did lose the biggest game of his life. So why didn't either one of us pick Belichick? But it's just one game. No, I said one season. I said one season. One season. Good talent, not great talent. Who are you picking?

Still picking Gibbs. Yeah, Gibbs would have been my number two, and close to, it's one A. And Belichick would be my three, like my third. All three of those. guys to me always got more out of what they should have gotten. Now, Belichick had Brady. And, you know, the argument against Belichick is what he did without Brady. You know, he did go 11 and 5 with Matt Castle. He did take, you know, a Cleveland team to a playoff year and win a playoff game. And he took Mack Jones as a rookie, that team to the playoffs. But obviously, he never threatened,

you know, Super Bowl contention without Brady. Gibbs did it with three different quarterbacks. Shula did it with David Woodley at quarterback and 38-year-old Earl Moral quarterbacking most of the 72 season, which is the only

perfect NFL season. You know, the other thing with Belichick, the Knox always been that AFC East was garbage the entire time the Patriots were ruling it. They just never, ever, ever got threatened in that division, and therefore... Oh, yeah, that's a legitimate argument.

Whereas Gibbs fought a heavyweight title fight almost every week. No doubt. Look, Shula's Dolphins of the 70s and early 80s, that division wasn't any... New England, actually not true. The Patriots had some good teams, and then Buffalo, obviously, in the late 80s and 90s became a heavyweight. But nothing like what Gibbs, out of those three, nothing like what Gibbs had to face. Belichick would be the first to admit it.

Yeah. No, absolutely. You're right about that. Now, actually, in the early 80s, actually, the early 80s, the bills were pretty good then, too. Yeah, they were with Joe Ferguson, the electric company. Yeah.

Yeah, they were pretty good bills back then. Yeah, you're right. And the 70s, the 70s, the AFC was loaded. Loaded. I mean, you know, the Patriots, the Colts, they couldn't get to the championship game. I know they were great teams. Well, talking about the AFC East, they were in the AFC East. They were Miami's biggest competitor in the 70s.

Yes. Yes. And that's why I say, like, Shula won. He went to three straight Super Bowl, 71, 72, 73, won two of them. in an AFC that had the Raiders, the Chiefs in the early 70s, 71, they beat the Chiefs on that Christmas Day longest game ever played. The Steelers started to emerge. The Chiefs, the Raiders, the Steelers, the Colts, as you said. Even the Browns and the Bengals were decent in the early 70s. But yeah, no, you're right.

But the NFC East and the NFC in general during the 80s, though, I mean, what Gibbs and Walsh, and by the way, Parcells had to overcome in their own division and then own conference, whereas Belichick pretty much had a home slate most years right to the Super Bowl because they were able to win their division typically, you know, in easy fashion. They weren't tested during the regular season like Washington was. You know, San Francisco had the Rams

in the NFC West, but not much else. The NFC East was the heavyweight of the 80s and 90s division. Yeah. All right. You know, the other thing I did, and I actually ended up finding the real

current answer, but I for years have said that Gibbs won more road playoff games than anybody but Landry. And it was true when Gibbs retired, even after his second go-round. He was five and four, nine career road playoff games, one five of them, lost four of them. Landry won seven road playoff games. But since Gibbs retired from Washington after 2007, John Harbaugh has the most at eight. Tom Coughlin has seven, and then Andy Reed and I had the list up in front of me before, now I'm forgetting. There's one other coach with six. Sorry, I'm forgetting who that was. But when Gibbs

retired, he had more road playoff wins than anybody but Landry, and he had a winning record in those road playoff games. Coughlin actually has the best overall record in road playoff games. You know, Coughlin's up for the Hall of Fame. And the more and more I think about Coughlin, what'll hold them back is that his regular season record isn't overwhelming. He had a 531 win percentage. But in Jacksonville, in year two of that program, he took that team to an AFC championship game and they won two road playoff games to get there. The 96 Jacksonville basically expansion team from the year before. They beat, remember, Buffalo, and then shocked Mike Shanahan's Denver Broncos as a massive

underdog on the road. They were a 14-point underdog, and they won at Denver. And then they ended up losing to New England in the AFC title game. That was a Bill Parcells coached New England team. But Coughlin Coughlin really was an excellent coach, man. He just had a lot of losing seasons around all of his winning seasons,

but 12 and 7 as a playoff coach and a two-time Super Bowl winning coach. Yeah. He's got a really good case for the Hall of Fame. I think he does. All right. We've got a few other things to finish up the show with after these words from a few of our sponsors.

All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Shelly's backroom at 1331 S Street, Northwest. It's almost a historic museum type of place in terms of excellence. I mean, they have this menu of excellence in food, drink, and cigars, and they've been there for more than two decades now. You know, we've seen a lot of things come and go in D.C., but Shelly's has been, you know, that Beacon, you know, surrounded by cigar smoke that has been there to bring you, you know, entertainment and satisfaction and joy. And we're going to start a little feature now for Shelly's backroom.

We're going to start. Shelly's backroom, cigar fact. Okay. The cigar fact of the day for Shelley. Churchill. Is about Mark. No. We did that already.

I know. But isn't Churchill's name on a bunch of? Cigars? Yes. That's a brand. I mean, it's a model of cigar. Yeah, Churchill. Mark Twain, obviously, you know who Mark Twain was.

I've heard of him, yeah. He had a writer's block at one point. He was honoring a promise, a legendary writer's block. People know about this. Mark Twain. His wife had begged him to stop smoking cigars. And he did, and he couldn't work. like because of that.

Okay. Finally, he started smoking again and resumed his 22 cigar a day habit. That's unbelievable. 22 cigars a day. And yet he lived a pretty long life, right? I think he did. I think he did. Yeah.

Pretty good life, too. Yeah, pretty good life. 22. I don't think I could smoke 22 cigars. So I have one cigar a day. Sometimes I go without one. You know, and 22 a day. But that's how he wrote.

If it wasn't for cigars, you wouldn't be reading Mark Twain. Yeah. I mean, his wife deprived us of some really good books. Look, if your wife doesn't want you to smoke out there, say, okay, dear, I'm going out to get groceries and head to Shelley's back room. Good idea. where, by the way, a great custom blended burger if you're hungry. All right, I got this. I wanted to read real quickly, and I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this,

because it seems like, you know, any kind of basketball talk these days in town doesn't go over very well, especially about the Wizards. Real quickly, it's John Wall night tonight, and I think John Wall should be honored. John Wall had a really good run here. I wish he had stayed healthy. I wish he and Beale had stayed healthy. I'm sorry? I think he should, too.

I was arguing with somebody about this. And I think one thing, he's very important to that era of Wizards fans. He's a very important figure, I think, to a lot of Wizards fans from that time. Secondly, he was a five-time All-Star. Yeah. You know, I mean, the only wizard, quote, Goet, who had more All-Star appearances with Elvin Hayes. Hayes, Unselled Bobby D. and John Wall.

That is my list of the Mount Rushmore of Bullets Wizards. I didn't put him in the order. Actually, I did. Elvin Hayes, West Unselled Bobby Dandridge, John Wall. I put John Wall over Gill. I put him over Phil. I don't even discuss Gil. I put him.

I don't even consider it worthy discussion. John Wall had... I think John Wall is deserving of the honor he's getting. Yep. All right. I was going to read this. It had nothing to do with the Wizards. Tim Z and Annapolis writes,

don't take this the wrong way, Kevin. But my God, do you kiss up to Maryland coaches? How many of them do you play golf with? So now Buzz is your latest cause? By the way, Buzz doesn't play golf. He's a lost cause, Kevin. Worst hire in Maryland basketball history. Talk about square peg round hole.

They are much better off cutting their losses now and hiring Tony Skin, who they should have hired last spring. Rodney Rice and several others would have stayed and the team would be miles better than this hot garbage we're watching. Bring the same level of objectivity to your alma mater that you do with every other team in town. So Tim got upset, I'm assuming, well, I'm more than assuming, because on Monday's show, after Maryland lost to Michigan State by 43 points on Sunday, and it was an embarrassing loss.

It was one of the worst losses. It was the fourth biggest margin of defeat, and the top three were all before the end of World War II. So nothing like this had happened in any of our lifetimes of being Maryland basketball fans. It was 24 to 4. It just was hideous. And, you know, that's Michigan State. It was on national TV, Tommy. It was on CBS before the championship games. And it's like, you know, if you're just kind of wandering by a TV and you look up and you see Michigan State beating Maryland by 43 points, it's just embarrassing.

I get that. I felt that watching it. But what I said was, you know, you've got to be patient. This guy came in. He had no players. All of the players exited stage right. He had to build a roster from scratch. I know in the NIL and portal era, you know, you're getting huge turnover year to year.

But he didn't have one player on his roster. He had to go sign 15 guys. And then, and then his best. best player hasn't played for almost the majority of the season because he's hurt and it looks like he's not going to play. And all I said was this guy's won everywhere he's gone. Is it square peg round hole with respect to the personality a little bit? It is.

And he's definitely got this, you know, very enclosed, not a lot of information, you know, getting out. You know, he doesn't talk about injuries. we didn't even find out about Farrell Payne's season-ending injury until Bill Raftery had the information on the game. Guy's been out for a month and there's no reporting on injuries. So every game, it's like, is he going to play or not play? And, you know, it's not the warm and fuzzy with, you know, the history of the program. He doesn't know much about it, which, you know, isn't necessarily his fault. I'm not saying that it is.

But he does have the number four recruiting class in the country right now coming in next year. He'll have a chance to have a full off season, hit the portal. Ferell Payne could come back next year as, you know, a true, you know, older, big dude to go with some of the young guys. And in college basketball, you can turn this thing around almost instantaneously. Now, he's struggled in his first year in previous spots. He did at Virginia Tech. He did at Texas A&M. talk to somebody who knows Buzz really well from the A&M days,

and he said, this was the deal at A&M. It took a while, and then all of a sudden he got the culture where he wanted it, and it sounds like Dan Quinn. He got the culture where he wanted it, and then all of a sudden he started to win. Of course, Quinn won big in his first year, not his second year. I, look, I care so much about this. It's really the thing that I care about more than anything else.

I'm very familiar with the impatience. of the Maryland fan base. Gary Williams in 2001, after going to seven straight NCAA tournaments, which included four Sweet 16 appearances, got booed off the floor at home after losing to Florida State in the month of February when they were ranked like 18th in the country. So I know what our fan base is, and it's part of why I love it. I mean, it's intense. It's passionate.

It's also impatient. It's also sometimes unrealistic. And I'm not bailing on Buzz. Look, what I, Buzz Williams was not my first choice. You know, I was skeptical about the hire because he's gone places and only stayed for four or five years and then bolted. Now, he's older. And hopefully this will be the place that he wins at and stays for a long time.

But, yeah. I know what I'm watching this year. I'm watching a coach who has, who put together a roster of 15 new players. It's barely, you know, a low-level, you know, big 10 team, they're next to last place, and then lost his best player to injury. They would have been better had they had their best player,

not a lot better, but they would have been much better and more, I think, palatable to watch, more easily digestible to watch. but I'm not bailing yet. I'm not going to do that. I mean, and by the way, just so you know, Tim, they gave him a seven-year deal. There's no way they can bail.

They owe him so much money. There's no chance. We've got to live with it and hope that it works. And I think there's a chance it will work. Now, check in with me a year from now and let's see what next year is, because next year's going to be a big year. But you got to give him, you know, this year as a bit of a break. Do you have any thoughts on that?

I mean, you know the Maryland fan base. You've covered the Terps. Look, I think, I thought he was a good college coach. He is a good college coach. He has been everywhere he's gone. Right. So, a little quirky, but a good coach. So, yeah, I mean, I think you've got to give him some time.

I think that Maryland will be competitive under this guy again. And, like, you know, going to tournaments, competitive. Yeah, well, they better, and it better start next year. And I say that not because I'm going to be calling for his head a year from now if they don't make the tournament. But if they're not good and they're not playing big games and they're not winning some of these games against some of the really good teams, which they've been one of the really good teams in the Big Ten since they entered the Big Ten. Two straight years of really – this is the worst season, Tommy, in the history of being a fan. of this program. This will be the worst season in my lifetime.

Even the probation seasons aren't going to be as bad as this one. They are, they're not going to qualify for the Big Ten tournament. So I think that's the way it works. I think the bottom two or three teams don't qualify for the big ten tournament. So it's, it's not fun this time of year when typically in over many decades, you know, you can look forward to, you know, an important Maryland basketball game. Georgetown won their second straight game last night. Good for the Hoyas. You had something real quickly that you wanted to tell me about your day yesterday.

Well, yesterday, I hung out with Maniakta yesterday. Really? You always liked him. Yeah, the former Nats manager. He's now the bench coach for Seattle Mariners. Yep. He's been there for a few years. And he lives down here in Florida.

And we got together yesterday for lunch. and a couple of cigars, and it was just a great day. Trading stories about the old crazy Jim Bowden days. That's awesome. I know you always liked him a lot. Yes. All right. I know you've got to run. I got to run. Enjoy the weekend with no football, and I will talk to you on Tuesday. Okay, boss.

All right, we're done for the day. Back tomorrow.