The Kevin Sheehan Show - Washington Commanders Day 1

Episode Date: February 2, 2022

Kevin and Thom today on the new name launch, the Washington Commanders. It wasn't the smoothest of roll-outs but who expected otherwise. The boys discussed the Brian Flores law suit against the NFL and three of its teams. Some Tom Brady, Terps-Michigan State, and the unbelievable reception Chris Beard got in his return to Texas Tech last night as well. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. Well, first off, welcome to not the best kept secret in D.C. Okay. But good morning.

Thank you so much for joining us today. Today's a big day for our team, our fans, a day in which we embark on a new chapter as the Washington Commanders. It's been a long journey to get to this point. We've been grateful to everyone who's been part of this process along the way. I want to thank our great alumni. Thank you guys for being here.

Thank you for being part of the process. Many of you have been on the committee calls, and it's just been great. And we really appreciate you helping us to connect the past to our future. I'd like to bring up Tanya, my co-owner of the team and partner. And thank you.

There's your fearless leader commanders fans. Dan Snyder this morning following the official announcement on the Today Show with Jason Wright and Doug Williams and John Allen along with Craig Melvin, Craig Melvin, Lindsey Zarniak's husband. Craig does a great job. I think he's always been a great broadcaster, Tommy. He was a part of the initial announcement on the Today show. And then they went to FedEx Field and Dan and Tanya were introduced by Julie Donaldson.

Dan was quick and to the point, good for him. And then it was Tanya handing it off to Joe Thysman. And it was, you know, nothing super awkward, nothing coming close to happy Thanksgiving. And the Ron Rivera introductory. But this was, this was certainly anticlimactic this morning. considering, you know, we haven't talked since last week. You know, Joe Thaisman spilled the beans on CBS Sports Radio on Monday. They had the choppers last night flying outside of FedEx Field where they were shooting video through the windows with all of the signage up that said commanders.

And of course, I think a lot of people had this sense anyway that it was commanders because of that. video with Jason Wright with the commander's materials on the armchair and on his lap that were supposed to be blurred out, that were not blurred out. But of course, you know, this was not any sort of okey-doke, you know, ruse with a surprise ending. Per usual, they kind of mishandled the execution of this all along the way, but the team does have its new name, the Washington commanders. Tommy, what's up? How are you? Did you watch all the activities this morning, or did you just read about them and watch them after the fact? I just read about them and watched them after the fact. I knew, as I followed on social media, that there were no absolute disasters, which is, you know, what I think

most people would expect. And I think, you know, given the low bar for this team, I think it went relatively smooth. Oh, I don't know that it went that smoothly. Maybe I need to update you. But remember what I said. A low bar. Yeah, it's a very low bar that they have to clear. That's true. But let me just tell you that I've gotten, and one of the reasons we're getting started a little bit late today is literally I've been on the phone I've been on the phone several with several different people this morning doing you know I don't know a couple of interviews here and there whatever um but I also got uh some call I got calls from people saying I knew that they would botch it but I just figured with two years to prepare for this that would it would have gone a little bit smoother

But I think, you know, you just have to have low expectations with all this stuff. So when it comes to them. So a couple of things. First of all, I'll just reiterate, and I'm not going to beat this to death. I just don't have that much passion for any of this right now. I am, you know, I'm the fan that's been on the cliff, ready to jump, that, you know, could be pulled back in with, you know, better behavior. and winning, of course. But I know so many people have already jumped,

and I think many, many more jumped today. I think that this was the final blow for many people who were hanging on. But I also think for many, it's a new beginning. And I think that's the point of all this. It feels very much to me, and I know I've said this before, like this is the introduction of an expansion team.

And a big market and a big market with, you know, lots of NFL history. But it is the realization that the old name is gone. Everything associated with the old name and the old brand is gone. And this is like a new day. It's a new name. They're talking about a new song. You know, Jason Wright apparently was, Jason Wright's going to be on with me tomorrow morning on radio at 8 a.m. on the team 980 if you want to tune in for that.

they're working on, you know, a fight song that is similar to the old one. They botched the logo. We'll get to that here momentarily. But it just feels like it's a new day, new team, and that the target really should be. And I've had conversations with various people where I kind of know this to be the case, that while they don't want to lose their history, They don't want people like me to stop embracing the history, which I would never do anyway. It's part of, you know, it's part of our, you know, memories.

I mean, we shared all these things together. Those things will never go away, and they will always be redskin memories. But they're targeting a younger demo. They're targeting people that haven't been massive fans or have been on the periphery fans, but really more fantasy football fans, now gamblers and football fans. And these are the people they're going to go for. They're between 18 and 34 years old. And my only advice to them is you better create a product that is really good almost instantaneously on the field.

And part of that with this younger generation, too, is creating a phenomenal stadium experience, which they don't have. And then to come up with branding that actually appeals to that group. And I don't know how it's being received by 18 to 34-year-olds, male or female, any sort of income demo. But I'm seeing a lot of reactions certainly on Twitter that is mostly negative. Now, I know Indian fans were almost universally negative about guardians. And any name wasn't going to be a great name. But even my boys, who I've talked to this morning, and they knew it was going to be, you know, they knew it was going to be the commanders, you know, as recently as the last couple of days. And they're not blown away from it by it. They don't love the uniforms necessarily.

But, you know, low bar. And maybe on some fronts they cleared it and on others, they ran into it. And on others, they, you know, came in under it. I don't know. It's just not a moving thing for me. I have lost this team slowly and gradually the passion for it. I might get pulled back in with some big wins and some big winning. And I do like Ron Rivera. I do. And I watched him, by the way, Tommy.

I didn't watch it live. Watch his appearance on CBS this morning because he was on CBS this morning. There is something about Ron Rivera that publicly is likable, that comes off as smart and quick and very much kind of an authoritative leader. Every time I see him in that kind of format, I think, really, that's your guy. Like, you don't need, we never need to see Dan or Tanya. And Tanya's not terrible at communicating. You know, Jason is a consultant, and he speaks like a consultant.

But Ron comes off as real. I don't know if he's a great coach. I think he's a good coach. I don't think he's a great coach. But anyway, my reactions are, eh, whatever. I am kind of entertained by some of the botching of this rollout, which we will get to here momentarily.

What's your immediate takeaway now that we know what it is? Well, look, I mean, I think that no name was going to satisfy everybody. any new name sounds awkward and unusual because it's not what you're used to. I mean, but you think about the names of some of the teams that have existed for decades in sports.

I mean, if you had, if the New York Mets had changed their name to METMETM, short for Metropolitan, like this year, you think people would have liked it? No, I just think people aren't used to what they're used to. And then, I mean, commanders, The low bar is it's not offensive. Right.

You know? I mean, it's not a rallying point, but I don't think it's offensive. I mean, you know, as far as I know. So, I mean, it was like it was pretty much what I expected. Like the demographic that you're talking about that they hope to reach, they have to turn this rooting for this team into something cool. And they are so far from that. So far from that goal, I don't know if it's ever achievable.

People want to be able to tell that. If you're 18 to 34, you want to be able to tell your friends here, a Washington commander's fan and not get laughed at in your face. Yeah. Somebody said, is there any name? Coolie asked me, is there any name you would have been like, okay, that's all right? And I think Warriors, I think I would have been like, okay, that's fine. it's not that.

And, you know, keeping the colors, the uniforms look totally different. So the uniforms have a completely different look to them. They've got a white uniform that kind of look like Temple's uniforms, like Temple's Road uniforms, like white and just kind of a red, kind of a burgundy, but I don't know if it's really burgundy. The helmets are okay with the W on it. And, you know, we heard over and over again, including Snifle's, statement, which really kind of focuses more on the Washington part, and that's what Joe

Thaisman kind of focused on in his little speech this morning with lots of players on the stage, former players on the stage, including, by the way, London Flector, London Flector was on the stage. And, you know, these black alt uniforms, the numbers are, you know, I'm not a union. uniform guy. But it certainly doesn't look like redskins uniforms. The colors are there, burgundy and gold or burgundy and yellow,

sort of the Zorn. You know, actually, remind me when we're done to find the Zorn drop, and I'll drop that audio at the end of the show. Because, you know, that was an all-time classic, obviously, when Zorn, you know, said the maroon black, and then you heard Snyder say, and yellow. From the front row didn't even know the team's colors.

But it's like commanders, and none of them were going to work for me. None of them really moved me one way or the other. I guarantee you the people that were really into this name thing, I don't think they like it. But to your point, I think it's probably where they arrived, because it's super safe. And it got vetted to the point where there was nothing that could come back and bite them in the ass. You know, like I said a couple of times, people are looking for reasons to hate this team. So there's some of that in the pushback for the new name.

And, you know, that's not unfair. They've earned that target. But so I just think they were in a no-win situation. I'm not lighting any candles for them or anything like that. And they just have to hope to God that they can just move forward and turn the page and become a different organization than they have been. You know, good luck with that. I want to just address a couple of things. Number one, I learned last night and I tweeted this out.

people in Ashburn, and when I say people, I'm probably referring to the highest level people in the organization, were not thrilled with the execution of this rollout. The video that was not blurred out that NBC Sports Washington ran without the commander stuff being blurred out was a total mistake. and, you know, that was, you know, of course, people wanted to make it into that this was going to, you know, be a bit of a head fake and it wasn't going to be the commanders. And, you know, Jason Wright, you know, at one point during this process, promised some misdirection. So maybe, you know, people were taking that as some misdirection, but that apparently was just completely. You know what? You know what's so funny about that? What?

I mean, people didn't. Who were we talking about here? They can't even get right what they want to do, let alone have a misdirection. Well, of course. You know, that they're capable of a flight of hand? Are you kidding me? They're not. Michael Phillips was on with me the other day, and he said, I'm still holding out some hope, and I said, no, come on, they're not clever enough.

You know, they're just not. But I don't think that the owner or the co-owner were very happy. I don't think the team president was very happy with that. I don't think that they saw the choppers flying around shooting through the glass windows at FedEx last night. I think their biggest fear over the last couple of months was a leak, which makes sense, by the way, because there are a lot of people that knew what the name was because you've got people producing merchandise. So I think their biggest concern was a leak. And really, you didn't get a leak until Joe Thysman leaked it or spilled the beans on a national sports talk radio show.

And so I would bet that they weren't thrilled with Joe's appearance there. But, you know, I think that they always feared that it could get leaked. But it didn't, you know, really, people didn't really catch on to commanders because of, anything other than their kind of self-inflicted, you know, mistakes. Number two, I get this from a lot of people. Commanders, really? This logo with mistakes, they're talking about a fight song, but they don't have the fight song ready to go. Two years, they had two years to get this right, and they, you need to understand this part, and I think I will get this from Jason Wright tomorrow on radio. I don't think they actually knew the name two years ago. I don't think they knew the name a year ago. You know,

there are many people that have pointed to the fact that Washington commanders.com, that URL, was secured just a few hours before the Fred Smith statement about the team name, about FedEx, pulling out of everything unless they change their team name. And that that's not coincidental, that that was going to be it. But I think that you could probably find that other U.R. URLs were secured simultaneously. The bottom line is they had to really vet everything. Unlike the Indians whose name wasn't controversial, their mascot was, and they got rid of the mascot. This name has been controversial. They had to make sure that whatever they picked didn't on this date get absolutely thrown back in their face as something that is wrong or insensitive.

And I don't think that they totally had everything vetted until maybe six months ago. So, you know, and you could say, well, six months is a long time to get it, right? I know, but look at who we're dealing with. We're dealing with an organization that is super clumsy and super disorganized always. You know, with, by the way, at this point, like a disheveled looking owner, he looked disheveled, morning on stage, almost as much as much as he did with Sean Taylor's family in that photo. So I'm not really overly critical of the amount of time. If you want to say that they promised this very inclusive process that they wanted to treat the fans,

as Jason Wright said this morning, with dignity and respect that they deserve. They wanted to treat the former players, the alums with the respect and dignity. They wanted it to be a very inclusive process, but it never really was because commanders was one of the initial options and they just went with it. That's probably fair. But I bet you they looked seriously into things like Red Wolves, you know, and wolves. And, you know, for whatever reason couldn't secure it or the cost was too high.

I'm not going to beat them up for the length of time that it took them to get this. Or the fact that, you know, they had all this. time and they got a lot wrong. I would have expected them to get a lot wrong, you know, whether it was a lot of time or a little time to figure it out. Also, again, you know, I mean, I've maintained all along that, you know, the pressure to change the name for this team had been around for decades. And a good, a good executive would have had a plan B in place in case push came to shove, you know, but that didn't happen. You know what's interesting?

In the video screw up that they had, that included in that video video was Chief Legal Officer Damon Jones. Yeah, he's out of the organization now. Well, why is he out of the organization? I don't know. He got a better opportunity. Well, you were the one that told me. No, you didn't tell me this.

because he had worked with Stan Kasten, Stan had this opportunity and he wanted to go work for Stan Kasten again. That's what I was told. I had heard that people were so mad about the video screw-up that jobs were going to be lost. Well, they were not happy with the video screw-up. And I learned that more so last night with a conversation last night, that this was not intended to be some sort of

you know, head fake, because that was the damn name. You know, and it was sitting right there on the arm chair and on his lap, and it was supposed to be blurred out. So some people were definitely reamed and taken to task for that. Tommy, you might be right about him. And that may be the reason he's not with the organization. But remember, he went right to the Dodgers. That's why, you know, he's got a job with the Dodgers right now.

I mean, that's a no-brainer going from the one. Washington football to the Dodgers. I get that. But it is a curious timing. But I want to, I want to touch on a few things here that happened in the rollout this morning. Because, again, the length of time, the process, and by the way, the challenge for Jason Wright really, to be a guy that has no affiliation with this organization, didn't really know the history of this organization. there aren't many people in the organization that really know the organization at all. Bless Julie, sweet and very nice and capable and the whole thing. She's not, you know, an organization historian.

She doesn't know that much about the history of the team. And that's why they, you know, they blew the Sean Taylor thing and they did very little to you. They didn't even, I don't even think half the people in that building even knew that this was a 30-year anniversary of their last Super Bowl team. But there are just a couple of things we got to point out. First of all, the logo, have you seen the logo and the controversy now over the logo? No, I can't say. I've seen the controversy. The logo is Washington football and in this middle. There's a little burgundy and a little gold circle and inside of it, established 1932.

Then it's Washington commanders with three stars. I think the three stars is for the three titles, Super Bowl titles. I don't know if it's part of the D.C. flag thing. And then they've got Washington football at the top. And at the bottom, they have... Okay. I know what you're going to say now. Now I know what you're talking about. They have the years, 1937, 1942.

1983, 1988, and 1992. Now, for those of you that haven't picked up on this,

these are the five world titles that the franchise has won. 1937, Sammy Ball, 42,

and then, remember the Super Bowl in January, 1983, the Super Bowl in January 1988,

Doug Williams, Super Bowl in January of 1992. Anybody that is a football fan, not even a hardcore football fan, but a football fan, would have been able to tell them that the Super Bowl years are not 1983, 1988, 1988, and 1992. They are the 1982, it's the 1982 team, the 1987 team, and the 1991 team. In the NFL, now the 37 and 42 championships were played in December. So they, the championship game was actually played in,

the same year that the regular season was played in. So those dates are fine. But we all know, okay, that the Super Bowl date is just that. It's the Super Bowl date. The winning Super Bowl team is always linked and labeled as the year in which the regular season was played. You know, When you talk about our Super Bowl teams, we talk about the 82 team, the 87 team, and the 1991 team. Like, if you even want to go to the most famous of Super Bowl winners, does anybody ever say about the Chicago Bears? Hey, man, that 86 Bears defense, that was something else. No, because the- You're right.

You're 100% right. Because the 85 Bears were the greatest defense of all time that won the Super Bowl. The 91 Redskins won the Super Bowl. The 72 dolphins, Tommy, were the only undefeated teams start to finish. Not the 73 dolphins, even though they won the Super Bowl on January 14th, 1973. Now, look, their answer to this will be, you know, no, we understood that. We understood that. We wanted to just, we wanted to have the year that they actually won the Super Bowl.

Yeah, but that's not what you do. You know, nobody refers, the 1983 team refers to the team that lost the Super Bowl to the Raiders. You just, you. I agree. I mean, I wonder what kind of debate took place inside the building. There had to been some kind of, somebody must have pointed out that, you know, I mean, that doesn't really reflect the champion. People talk about the 82 championship team, the 87 championship team. I mean, was there a debate in the building?

wonder who made the decision. I had a conversation with somebody, somebody you know, but I'm not going to mention here after the show this morning when I saw this and I tweeted out some things and I tweeted out, you know, think of the most famous Super Bowl winners. Does anybody refer to the 85 bears as the 86 bears just because they won the Super Bowl in January of 1986? No. What about the 72 dolphins?

You know, the Super Bowl was won in 73. This is a botch. This is a major botch. on their logo, okay? So I got a call from somebody who just said, you know, I've heard you and Tommy so many times over the years use two words to describe this organization, dumb and arrogant.

Which of the two caused this? And I said, you know, it's a really good question, but I think it's the latter. Because what you and I both know, and anybody that's had any kind of contact with this team over the years, it's the arrogance more than anything else that's permeated the organization for years in so many different areas. And the arrogance leads to them always thinking they've got the right answers and that they're not wrong. And why consult people? Why consult people who might actually be able to help?

We know this. So I think in a room, you know, look, Jason Wright just got to town. He's a former player. He's a consultant. He's never run anything, really, you know, in his life. But he's been involved in making big decisions before. And by the way, strikes me as the kind of guy that would be like, maybe we should bounce this off a bunch of people and make sure we've got this right. Yeah.

You know? But I think it's a dumb, dumb mistake. okay, they'll try to tell you, oh, no, no, no, no, we knew that. We debated that and we just decided to go with the date that we won the Super Bowl. Well, you can do that all you want, but that's not really reflective in a logo of your championship teams. Well, can't they just change it? Sure they can, and maybe they will. Maybe they will. You know what? They should. They should change it.

Yes. They should absolutely change it. But I'm sure it's been... Not offended, change it. You know what, Tommy? Do you think they will? Because they'll defend it and because that's what people who never think they're wrong do. How about just admit we got that one wrong?

Thank you for the feedback. We should have sought that feedback before. You know, by the way, Jason talked about all these focus groups. Well, I mean, didn't anybody in any of the focus groups that looked at the logo pick up on it? or maybe they had a vigorous debate and the people who were wrong won the debate. That's possible. But that's not the way you describe your championship teams. You know, it's not the 92 Redskins that won the Super Bowl.

It's the 91 Redskins that won the Lombardi Trophy, even though they won it on January 20th. 26th, 1992. Okay, the greatest Super Bowl winner, the 91 Redskins. The second greatest Super Bowl winner, the 85 Bears. Not the 92 skins and the 86 bears. Football circled people, football conversationalists, refer to those teams always and forever as the 91 skins and the 85 bears.

Okay, so let me move on to the next thing. They botched that. I got lots of people who tweeted me to say that, and I haven't seen the pictures yet, so I'm doing this, maybe, perhaps I'm jumping the gun on this, but apparently when they opened up the team store at the stadium, first of all, if you haven't seen that video, I mean, they had a ribbon-cutting ceremony

with Tanya out there cutting the ribbon. the way, she offered everybody who was in line for the store to open. She actually paid for an item for them. You know what? That's really kind. It was easy to do because there weren't many people in line. That's like walking into a dive bar and buying drinks for everybody in the bar. Now, I joked. I said the ribbon itself was longer than the line, and that may have been an exaggeration and somebody said that your boy you know your boy that

that that that uh it just is insufferable with the blocking and the muting of people like you are the guy that used to write with you at the times or maybe not the times um I the dude that hates me

and um I can't remember his name now fuck anyway uh he apparently Let me see if I can find it. Hold on, because I don't want to... I think he actually also writes for the radio station's website.

I mean... Rick Snyder? Yes, Rick Snyder, thank you. Somebody tweeted me... He doesn't like you? No, he's... Maybe he doesn't like a lot of people. But, you know, the only reason I know this, Tommy,

you told me this a while back. You told me this. He doesn't like you. He can't stand you. Secondly, I don't remember saying that. Yes. Secondly, he wrote something on our radio station's website. This was like a couple of months ago, and I was reading it, and it was pretty good. And then there was like a link to something that he had tweeted out, and I linked, and I was blocked.

And so I couldn't see what it was. Anyway, whatever. Somebody tweeted me and said, your description that the ribbon, you know, line was, you know, this dude, Rick Snyder said there were 200 people in the store. Okay, well, there weren't 200 people in the video that I saw in line, but maybe they flooded the store after the fact. My point here is, if you're going to have a ribbon cutting ceremony, okay, you need to have a throng of people. You need to make sure that if you're doing something for a photo op or a video op, and you're the marketer.

this is your event and there's going to be video and photos of this just like the Sean Taylor pictures and videos in front of the porta potties and all of the pathetic disorganized, disheveled

photos you got out of that day you have to ensure that this is going to be a photo op that works it's going to be a video that really shows the excitement of the day I mean we're opening up a new supermarket Tommy Look at how fresh the bananas are.

The produce looks great. Look at the ribbon. And look at all the customers ready to just roll into the store. And it was just so embarrassing. Now, again, you know, that's picking on them a little bit, but it's really not because if you're not going to have, if you're really a sharp marketer, if you're really planned and you're buttoned up, you put out an offer. You put out an offer that says the first 1,000 people on February 2nd, 2022 to the stadium store at FedEx Field will get a free jersey or a free

sweatshirt or whatever. You got to sink it up with a promoted free giveaway, free offer, something to incent people to get out there. People were commenting, well, it's a bigger crowd than they have at the games. Or that's their season ticket list, you know, and it just opened them up for all of this ridicule. If you're going to do a photo op or a video up, my God, get it right. Think it through. But they're not capable. They're not capable of it. They're just not capable. You know, I mean, the expectations are so low that there's a point where the outrage meets the expectations. In other words, the outrage level, it becomes so low because you don't expect much. You know, yeah, they screw that up.

You know, what do you expect? You know, I mean, look at who they are. You know, it's like that relative that you've got in your family somewhere that you just, you know, what do you expect? Look at him. He's been a screw up his whole lot. wife, you know? That kind of thing. Apparently in the store, they have a lot

of Dwayne Haskins jerseys in the store. Get out. Get out. I swear to you. I have heard that back now from, I haven't, I want to see the pictures of it. This is where I may be I'm jumping the gun. But I was told by a pretty good source

that they're, they still have Dwayne Haskins jerseys in the store. Well, shit, I mean, if you got them. But those are not, those are Washington football jerseys, right? They're not Commander Jersey. Yeah, but Tommy, Cooley and I were talking about this yesterday. I would assume they are going to sell the vintage, you know, numbers in Commander's style jerseys.

I mean, you're going to get 9 and 44 and 81 and 28. You know, I mean, that's going to that. Which brings me, yes, which brings me to a bit of news I found that. out. Okay. I called the Pro Football Hall Fame today, and I asked them. I talked to somebody there, and I said, you know, what happens to Redskins players, let's say like a Joe Jacoby or a Brian Mitchell, who get inducted now? Are they inducted as commanders? Because that's the name of the team. You know, it's not like they moved. It's not the Los Angeles Raiders and the Oakland Raiders.

So what did they say? You know, they've changed the name. They said that the hall does not rewrite history, they would go in as Washington Redskins. Yeah, that's the only answer, right? I mean, we've already seen. Remember some of the initial fears, you know, we're never going to see the name. They're going to, you know, they're going to somehow blur out the end zones in the Super Bowl video where Redskins is written. And none of that's happened.

All of the history of this team, from my standpoint, I think, has been preserved. Nobody's tried to erase it. No, but changing a name in that situation is very rare. I mean, it has not happened. Like the Cardinals, they moved from Chicago to St. Louis to Arizona. They stayed the Cardinals. You know, that's usually these kind of situations. Understood. Yeah. But, but, you know, not great cults, you know, there are some examples of it. But no, there were a couple of other things that I wanted to mention. I mentioned the Dwayne Haskins thing, the ribbon cutting thing. The ribbon cutting thing to me kind of goes hand in hand with the Sean Taylor Day. It's just, it's just not well planned. Like, I mean, what's

surprising to me about that is that Snyder's a marketer. He's a merchandiser. Like, how do you not have all of that buttoned up? But whatever. Kevin, Kevin, Snyder's a grifter. That's what he is. No, Tommy. He's a grifter, and that's how he's made his money. He was a salesman and a marketer. And when he came into this league, he got a lot more out of the merchandising and marketing of this team. then Jack Kent, well, I mean, Jack Kent Cook was old and dying, but then the previous group had done. And a lot of those things he was learning from Jerry too early on. I think Jerry was probably the more the entrepreneur and innovator in a lot of those things. He was super aggressive in those things. Oh, I wanted to mention this. So I was taking calls this morning on, you know, how everybody's. I've done that for the last two days, I guess.

Probably do it tomorrow as well. You know, and I would say, the majority of people really, it hit them the last two days, you know. Maybe it's because they hate commanders. Part of me thinks that if it had been warriors and the uniforms had stayed the same, maybe the logo changed, that maybe it would have been a little bit better received, but whatever. Like I've told you all along, Tommy, this was the perfect time for this to happen for them. It's the least amount of risk that they've ever had in a big brand change because they just don't have as many customers as they used to have. Yes. So I took a call this morning and I took a call yesterday and I've gotten tweets on this.

Do you know that a lot of cowboy giant and eagle fans also feel very sad about this as well? to them it's like it's different now. You know, their games against us are different. You know, we've been in this interim phase of, it's not that we didn't believe that the name was gone, but we didn't have the new name, but we were focused on Washington and the uniforms for the, for the most part, looked the same, you know, with the exception of the helmets. And, you know, it was still Washington, you know, against the Cowboys. and people still kind of, you know, referring to them as skins or whatever.

But, you know, for giant cowboy and eagle fans, I mean, put yourself, you can't do it, I can do it because I'm a, you know, lifelong fan. But like if the cowboys had to change their name to something and they stopped becoming the Dallas Cowboys because the Cowboys were shooting up Indians, you know, in the late 19th century, it would be, it would seem different. You know, people love. Yeah, what? You know, people like, more people hate change than embrace change.

But especially when it comes to traditions that they hold near and dear to their heart, any change to those, and it's, you know, it's impactful to them. So I understand that. And because I think I would feel the same way if the Eagles or the Giants or the Cowboys had to change their name to something totally different, you know, or change their uniform to something totally different. You know, when Washington's on the field next year is the commanders, and they're wearing their white uniforms,

they're not going to look anything like the Redskins or even the Washington football team. It's going to look like an expansion team, like something new. Even the home jerseys, which are, you know, burgundy and yellow, I think, more so than anything else. But even they look so different. I do like the W on the helmet if I didn't say that. it already. I'm glad it's that and it doesn't say like commanders on the helmet. But anyway, so I was thinking about that. You know, it's, to me, the analogy is how I felt when Maryland left the ACC and how I know North Carolina and Duke and Virginia fans felt. They

didn't want to see Maryland leave the ACC. Maryland's part of their memories, part of their tradition, part of their rivalries, you know, so it was weird. And it's going to be weird next year. when the commanders go into, you know, Lincoln Financial against the Eagles for a game and they're wearing white uniforms with these kind of reddish burgundy colors, you know, numbers. And it doesn't look anything like them. So I understand that. I wanted to mention that too. What else did I want to say to you?

Now, you know, what are the things I've seen? It's kind of ironic because commands. is supposedly embracing the military, you know, fan base of the Washington football team of the commanders. Yeah. I guess I could stop saying Washington football team, finally, from now on. But their nickname is going to be commies. I don't think so.

That's what the nickname is going to be. Oh, yes, it is. Why? People are going to call them commies short for commanders. Yeah, but is that going to be out of a, is that going to have a negative connotation? And they're doing it purposefully to be negative, or do you think that's just what it's going to be?

And people will embrace it in a positive way. No, I think people will use it to laugh at the team. Oh, okay, yeah. Yeah, I, you know, I pointed this out this morning that there are only three NFL team names that are more than two syllables. and all three of those have, you know, easy, shortened names. The Patriots are the Pats, the Buccaneers are the Bucks, and the 49ers are the Niners.

And now Washington is the fourth team that is more than two syllables, and there's really not a natural shortening of that. The commies. No, I don't see it as being the commies. I'm telling you. Why don't you see this? I just don't. Look, do I think the teams, I've got to call them the commies? No.

But I think people are. Yeah. Okay. Well, anybody that cares about the team isn't going to call on that. I think a lot of people will continue to just say Washington in Skins. I mean, I think that's going to be a lot of it for a while anyway. And then things change, I understand. And eventually, you know, 30 years from now, and, you know, I hope I'm around.

30 years from now. Now, you don't have any jerseys or anything like that. You're not that kind of guy, right? No, there are, there are, there's Redskins stuff in the house, because when we moved, when we moved, you know, at the end of the summer, I saw a lot of it and it was in boxes, but it's all the kids stuff. Like I found, I think I mentioned this. There was a Santana Moss jersey. There was a Brad Johnson jersey. There was a Clinton Portis jersey.

There was a Chris Cooley jersey. But they were all kids jerseys. so obviously either I got them or my wife got them or they got them when they went to the game I don't remember how but no I'm not I'm not at all a jersey or a paraphernalia

you know team paraphernalia guy I'm not a collector of any of that stuff either so no I don't have I think I have somewhere in a box a knitted my grandmother knitted me

she was a big she was a big knitter knitted me when I was in my early teens a Redskins cap a winter ski cap and I think I saved that

because you know it was my grandmother that did it and I remember that that was like and I think I saw that in the move as well that that was buried somewhere I'll tell you what I do have I do have from the Super Bowls that I went to, I do have some stuff from the Super Bowls.

Because if you've ever been to a Super Bowl as a fan, have you ever been to a Super Bowl as a fan? So when you go to a Super Bowl as a fan, they typically have on your seat like this packet of stuff, you know, and it's got, you know, cards in there. It's got Super Bowl stuff. It's got, you know, a pin. It's just got a lot of stuff. Plus, it acts as a seat cushion, you know, and it'll have the Super Bowl logo.

So I have, for two of the Super Bowls that I went to, 26 and Super Bowl, Super Bowl 22, I have that stuff, including, I'm pretty sure I have my ticket stub. I think I have my ticket stub from Super Bowl 26. I think I was looking for it for Super Bowl 22. Well, and I couldn't find it. What's interesting is the dates on that paraphernalia would be 92 and 88. Yes, they would. Yeah, because those were the dates of the super. But I guarantee you everything inside there, like, you know,

like let's put it this way. There's a program in there, right? And it's got, you know, the matchup. The matchup is between the Buffalo Bills and the Washington Redskins. And let's look at the 1991 Washington Redskins and see how they did in their games and their statistics, that's what it would say. It wouldn't say the 92 skins. But yeah, there was a date, you know, every Super Bowl has its own logo.

I think that's the only stuff I've got saved. I think so. And the only other thing... So you won't be getting a Commander's jersey. No. I don't know. Uh-uh. Okay.

No, I'm not a Jersey guy. I'm a grown man. Kind of. You know? If I was still a fan, if I was still a fan, there'd be jerseys that I would own. I'm telling you, the last time we had this conversation, and I answered it with, no, I'm an adult. I got so many people that were so angry with me. They're like, I'm an adult, too, but I have so many jerseys.

Look, more power to you. Scott Lynn is one of my favorite people of all times. Scott, of course, worked at 980 with us for years, part of the Steve Zabin show, all of Zabin shows. and Scotland is truly one of the best people you'd ever want to meet. And he is a jersey collector. He's a worn jersey collector. And many, many, many days I would just be sitting in Scott's office and we would be solving all the world's problems.

Remember he had that couch in his office and I'd be lying down on the couch and something would get delivered and he's opening it up and I'm like, what's that? And he's like, oh, it's my latest game worn jersey that I got on eBay. You know, it's some hockey players jersey. He wore two nights ago. And I would just look at him and I'd be like, you're a weirdo. I don't even get that. How much did you pay for it?

And then he's like, I don't want to tell you. And I'd be like, you shouldn't tell me. But no, I won't own any of those jerseys. I won't. Oh, I did want to mention the only other collector's item I have, and you'll remember this, do you remember when that dude, God, I forget his name, sorry because you were really nice. he brought my seats from Cole Fieldhouse to the radio station and they just sat in my office forever.

Don't you remember that? No, I remember the seats. I don't remember the seats. I don't remember who brought them. Yeah, but you remember the seats because they just sat there in my office. Yes. Well, I mean, one of the reasons they... The only evidence of a life in your office. True.

I was always on the verge of I don't want to act like I belong here yet. I want to keep earning my keep. Those seats sat there forever until we had to move out of those studios, in part because they were so heavy to move. But they were the three seats, the actual three seats that I had my season tickets from Cole Fieldhouse. Now, I ended up moving them to my garage. And then when we moved over the summer, my wife said, what do you want to do with this?

And I go, I don't know what I want to do with it. I can't throw it out. You know, I don't have anybody specifically. I know. You can't throw it out. And I didn't. I just moved it to the new house and put it in the attic. But I, but I'll tell you what, if I got a really good offer for them, I'd probably sell them.

Because I don't really have, oh, I mean, these. You're soulless. You're a soul. I'm not on some things, but on that stuff I am. Like, I, I, I think I have much. more stuff when it comes to music and by the way like you know I've told you before I was a newspaper collector that's about the only thing I've ever collected I've got so many newspapers of famous days tucked away in a box in an attic although you know

some of those had faded so much when I looked at them yeah they're yellowing and and yeah flicking and flicking and flacking right what else on this you know what else can we say? I mean, most of you I don't think like the name. Most of you realize they botched the execution. Most of you realize today wasn't very smooth. But then again, like Tommy said at the beginning, the bar is a super low bar. You know, there wasn't a happy Thanksgiving fiasco, although I would suggest that getting the logo in those years wrong is equivalent to happy Thanksgiving. David. Dan gave the best kind of speech he can give, something in 20 seconds or less. You know, he brought his wife up. He tried to crack a joke.

You know, Jason Wright was, you know, what he is. He's polished. He's smooth. He's handsome. He's not going to misspeak. Although I did think it was kind of weird that when Craig Melvin said, all right, let's do it. And he looked at Doug and made Doug do it. And then Doug, you know, put his arm around John Allen. And that was a little bit, you know, seemed spontaneous. But you know what? I don't want to do it. You do it. I don't want to tell everybody the bad news.

I don't want to say to name. You tell them. I don't want to break this horrible news with this just shitty name. You know, the other part of it, too, is don't you think Dan during all of this has just been seething? I mean, never, never, ever in caps. You know, that was 2012, 2012, 2013, whatever. You know, he should be seething. If he's not, he should be because of the position he staked out for himself.

But I don't think he's ever critical of himself. And I just think that he just thinks that he's a victim. The ironic part is He sees himself as a victim, I bet, and all this God, that's always your go-to. That's always your go-to with, you know, RG-3 and stuff. But I think, I don't know that he sees himself as a victim. I think he sees himself as right.

And everybody else, you know, has kind of messed it up along the way. I guess which would then lead you back to it's not his fault. He's the victim of all this. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe. He's a victim and he's a grifter. What I would expect, by the way, is in the coming weeks, you know, just more Sean Taylor stuff.

I really think that that is his go-to. You know, in many ways I was thinking about this and I was having a conversation with somebody about this topic, about, you know, the likelihood that there's more. Sean Taylor news to come. Like, I don't know, a floor at the stadium named after him, you know, a concession area, oh, I don't know, whatever it ends up being. Just like they renamed the road and they

obviously retired the jersey, but there's just more Sean Taylor stuff coming. And the reason is, is that it was probably one of his finest moments as an owner, sort of the way they handled the

tragedy. Yes. And so he feels very attached to something that he got complimented for because there's been very few compliments over the years. They've been few and far between. And I also think part of it, you know, if we give them any credit for being a marketer, which, you know, there's no evidence of it here recently, is that Sean Taylor, I hate when I say this because people, people sometimes perceive it to be me not being a Sean Taylor fan because I was a Sean Taylor fan. I loved watching Sean Taylor play. I loved him as a rookie wearing 36 against the Bears and all those games. And I loved the way he was maturing. And he was already in 2007, a great player. You know, he had just become a great player because he was very good, but he was

flawed. In 2007, he was a great player, and he was going to get better. And he's one of my favorite type of favorite players, which is, you know, just a physical, overpowering defensive player. You know, Kenny Easley is one of my all-time favorite players, one of the biggest hitters, hitters in NFL history. And Sean Taylor, I just, I loved watching him play. But I'm also cognizant of the fact that, you know, 10 players minimum, certainly eight minimums, should have had their jerseys retired before Sean Taylor. You know, maybe Sean Taylor deserved his jersey retired as a special circumstance, and I'm not against it, but there should have been eight jerseys minimum retired before his. And then this constant fawning over Sean Taylor, I mean, during the

events of, you know, October or whenever it was, it was almost as if he had just passed away the previous week. You know, they were holding vigils. And I think they've taken advantage of him and taken advantage of his family. And they're the ones I feel the most awful for in terms of the way that was bungled. But I just think enough is enough. I think they've leveraged Sean Taylor enough. I think the owner feels close to him, and that's fine.

I think he also feels very close to this moment in time as the owner where he actually handled something well. And they're targeting this younger audience. I think if you're analyzing him, that's a pretty good analysis. Is that, you know, it was a moment where he was given praise. And they're targeting. And he earned it. He deserved the praise.

He did. Yeah, that was, you know. I mean, you know, it's the old saying it's hard to fuck up a one-man funeral, but you would think that they could fuck up anything, you know, but they didn't in that circumstance. And you know what? He brought Joe Gibbs here. I mean, did I just nail the two moments?

One of them, he came through in the midst of a tragedy, and then in 2004 he hired Joe Gibbs. Is there another moment? Well, let me point out that those are the old team. This is the new team. Okay. Actually, what I was going to say is his other moment was when he said never, never, ever, because a lot of people said, you're, you know what? Now, now you're my guy because we're not giving up this damn name.

God, I was just going to mention, oh, what I was going to also just emphasize is that it's also a marketing thing because they are targeting a younger demo now. That's their hope, you know. Their hope is, you know, they start to win, start to win immediately, that the brand isn't off-putting, and that they're able to attract, you know, 10 to 30-year-olds that end up becoming lifelong commander fans. You know, they're targeting the fan base that isn't going to NFL games. Actually, Tommy, they're targeting, because I've talked to Jason Wright about this. You know, I've told you this before that one of the things he said to me in a conversation a while back is he said, you know, my job has nothing to do with the football operation. That's runs.

You know, that's it. But my job is to build a business that can grow regardless of what happens on the field. That's an unbelievable thing to say in the business that he's in. But there are examples of it. The Miami Dolphins are thriving as a business despite the fact that, you know, they have not been a very good team. We'll get to Brian Flores, by the way, in our next segment. That they have not been a good team.

Jason has done a ton of studying on, you know, this stadium experience and what it needs to be like and how it appeals to a fan that isn't necessarily there to see what the final score is. He is right. He is right about that. I've maintained that with the Washington Nationals all along. That the important thing for the nationals, right from the beginning of the learner ownership,

was to build a fan base that would sustain them when they would not be doing well. That's the foundation. That's how you build it. Don't you think baseball is so much different than football? I go to baseball games all the time not being super invested in the outcome. But 16 games, 17 games a year in the NFL, most people, you know, what I'm saying is you're right and he's right apparently.

But it doesn't make sense to me because I'm invested in the outcome. I'm not talking about from a gambling standpoint. I'm talking about from the team that I want to win. That's why I'm there. I'm not there for the family, you know, the fun family area or the fan-friendly area where you can bring your kids and they can play and you can eat and their picnic tables while the game's going on. Or there are cool video, you know, game areas. Or they're, you know, we're invested, by the way, in a Formula One team and we've got our Formula One driver in our Formula One museum over here that you can, you know, peruse during the game. I go to a game, I go to watch my team win and root for them to win.

But his suggestion to me is look at the new stadiums. The new stadiums, and that's what their new stadiums is going to have to be. It's going to have to be built with the idea that you're trying to attract somebody that's there because it's a cool day, whether the team wins or loses is immaterial. Think about that for a minute, just. I mean, I don't want to go down, open up a whole new can worm. But let me just get this on the record. We have such low expectations of them because they screw up so much.

There is no bigger thing that a sports franchise does than to engineer a campaign to build a new stadium. It's the biggest thing they do, okay? Imagine that in the hands of this group. You know? You're so funny. I mean, they can't even do a rollout of a new name right. And they're going to build a mecca of a football stadium with shopping and amusement parks in West Virginia. Shit.

In West Virginia, that's outstanding. You know what? It really is a warning. I mean, Tommy just gave you the warning. I mean, look at what today and yesterday and videos and Sean Taylor. And imagine the logistics involved in building a new stadium and opening that new stadium to fans. I would think it's a lot harder than a ribbon-cutting ceremony out in front of your team store. A little bit.

Even a guy, like I said before, even a guy like cook who we believe. loved. Right, he blew it. He blew it. I mean, look what he wound up. I know. He wound up with that Wouty Stadium and Landover. I know.

I remember Jason telling me that, you know, the hard rock in Miami is like, for everybody in the league, it is a real centerpiece of how to do it right in a big way. I also think, you know, South Florida is a completely different market, too. But real quickly, by the way, I want to do. wanted to just say, Tommy's column, which, you know, came out yesterday, or Monday, was really, really good. It's a must read. Do you want to sum it up real quickly for people? Because you know that some of the references that you used in there, I loved and I totally identified with, you know, you know, declaring Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy for starters. But just go ahead and tell everybody, because this is actually a perfect add-on to your Do you think they're going to be able to get a stadium in West Virginia right?

Shit. No, I don't think they'll get it right. My favorite line in the column was, you know, maybe they could invite in disgrace today's show host Matt Lauer to help with the announcement. Yeah, Matt Lauer come in to help with the announcement and have him ask some of the sexual harassment questions, which I guess Craig Meldon did ask, by the way, but go ahead. I think, yes, yeah, he did.

But basically, the just-the-com was, you know, they want so desperately, and Rivera has voiced this a number of times, they want to put everything in the rearview mirror. Everything they can't, oh, not everything, but all the bad stuff. They want to put it all in the rear-view mirror and say this is a fresh start, a new start, and I maintain you don't get to do that. If you do that, then you leave it all behind. you don't get to embrace the Super Bowl trophies and then and then you know

say the other part the 20 years of Snyder ownership that doesn't count anymore because that's the old team you know you get it all when you work for this organization you get all of it when you I've always maintained when you put on a uniform of an organization

you get the history that comes with it the good and the bad and that was just that just that you know, they're trying to, you know, say this is a new beginning. And they wouldn't say it was a new beginning if the old past wasn't such an embarrassment. Nobody wants a new beginning for something that's good. Well, I mean, it's true. I mean, you know, I very much am always like, well, that's fine, but let's look forward.

What's the solution? But this is a different conversation. And their favorite word here recently, and you nailed it, has been forward. Forward's their favorite word. You hear it all the time. I heard Ron Rivera say it multiple times in the CBS thing. He has said it many times before. They all want to look forward.

But every time, like, they're in a forward motion, it ends up in neutral or in reverse, like today. But beside that, they can't avoid the past. because the past is on full display tomorrow on a YouTube stream from the House Congressional Reform and Oversight Committee room. Like, the past ain't going away because there's still a lot of stuff out there that, I guess, does it have, has it reached its conclusion yet? I don't know. I don't think it has. Yeah. I pointed out, and we'll get into the Brian Flores thing, that committee, I mean,

You know, there's been a lot of concentration on Washington football, but they're interested in the NFL as well. I mean, they're interested in the John Gruden emails. And this Brian Florey's lawsuit... We'll get to that. It's really good. It's going to pete the interest of these committee members. Because they...

I mean, while the Washington football team has gotten a lot of attention as their target, they would love to put the NFL up there on trial, for lack of a better word. I want to get to the Brian Flores thing. I want to talk about Tom Brady. You know, the timing, by the way, we always said, you know, like I've mentioned a couple of times. You know, that February 2nd thing at FedEx Field, there is a chance. The weather won't be great. But they got lucky with the weather.

They got lucky that there wasn't like a big breaking news story, like, you know, Russia invade Ukraine that would have knocked them off to today's show. But, Tommy, Tom Brady retired yesterday. and then the bombshell from Brian Flores. We'll get to that in more right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. That helps us, doesn't cost you a thing. Rate us and review us, please, on Apple if you haven't done so. That's a huge help.

Spotify as well. I wanted to mention one other thing about the team that plays football here, the commanders. You know what they have to do? I mean, today just makes it so obvious. They have to go out and offer Green Bay and Seattle and Houston anything they want to get one of those three quarterbacks to play here next year. They just have to do that. They have to turn the conversation.

I know Deshawn Watson would turn it in a lot of different directions. Let me take Deshawn Watson out of the conversation. They've got to go get Russell Wilson or Aaron Rogers. I don't think they can, but God, they have to die taking that swing. I mean, because that would turn all of the attention to football and the fact that they would be one of the front runners to represent the NFC in the Super Bowl next year. And so I can't imagine that Dan Snyder isn't somewhere

in that building with the Super Bowl next year. Marty Herney and Martin Mayhew and Ron Rivera saying, hey, boys, I'm leaving you alone, but let me just tell you, the business of the Washington commanders, it's in big trouble here. We need a big-time splash quarterback and some hope. Go out and get it for me. I don't care what it costs. They get Russell Wilson or Aaron Rogers come here,

which is obviously very unlikely. That would be a huge splash that would certainly turn around much of the conversation of football and result in a huge bump for, I think, the nuke Washington commanders. Absolutely. I think that's the case. I think what's more likely is they're going to have to live with drafting a quarterback. Right. All right. Let's talk about the bombshell that Brian Flores.

is dropped on the NFL and three teams specifically the Giants Dolphins in Denver when he announced he was suing the NFL in those three teams on allegations of racial discrimination and unethical practices. Let's start with that before we get to some of the other allegations in this lawsuit that one in particular, the Stephen Ross offering him money to lose games, which is a big, which is a, what you're doing there? Nothing, I'm good. You were making a lot of, you were making a lot of racket there. Okay.

No, no, no. That's just the waves in the background. The waves in the background from the Gulf. God, I wish I were there. That's all. So, and we'll get to that piece in a moment. Let me get your reaction to the overarching theme of the lawsuit, which is this Rooney Rule creates a situation in which, you know,

minorities are interviewed in a sham-like process. This thing's a sham, which is essentially what he's alleging. What do you say? Well, you know, from afar, not being intimate with the business dealings of the league, I would tend to agree with him. I mean, I think he's right. I think this is going to be a hugely important lawsuit for the NFL. And, I mean, do you think Brian Flores is a good coach? I really have thought he's been a good coach for a couple of years, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, and that he wouldn't be coaching in the NFL, that Joe Judge had a job for a couple years, you know? I mean, yeah, if I'm a minority coach, I see somebody's idiots that coach somebody's teams, I'm thinking, yeah, there's got, there's got to be something going on here. Whether it's subtle, whether it's blatant, but I think it needs to be exposed. I think this is going to be ultimately, you know, as painful as it will be, and it will be painful. I think this will wind up being a good thing for the league down the line if they finally address this issue seriously. But, you know, some people have compared this to, like, the Kurt Flood lawsuit when he sued to, you know, become a free agent. I mean, he basically has given up his career as a coach, most people believe.

he'll never coach in the league again by doing that. It'd be hard to hire a coach that's got a lawsuit against the league, which by the way means, according to Neal and Rockville, that essentially all 32 teams are being sued. They're part of this class action lawsuit. And Neil seems to think it'll turn from a class action lawsuit into something else. But it would be hard to hire a guy that's suing the league. Yes.

You would think? Yes, it would. unless that was a settlement, unless they said, look, we'll give you a job if you dropped the lawsuit. Well, they paid Colin Kaepernick off. They settled with him. Yeah. But that would be a different kind of settlement to use one of our office examples. You know, the Michael Scott Paper Company was offered $40,000, and he said, no, we need our jobs. You know, we need jobs. And we need health benefits.

and oh, by the way, you've got to hire Ryan back. Hire Ryan back. He defrauded the company of hundreds of thousands of dollars. But, yeah, I, that would be odd. I don't, I think, I think clearly this was an unbelievable risk for him if he ever wants to coach again. Yes. But I think, I mean, right now, today, I think it's an important lawsuit.

So I wanted to mention a couple of things. of things. First of all, I've had this feeling a couple of times about the Rooney rule in the last couple of years, and we've probably mentioned it a few times, but we've never spent a lot of time. I've always felt like these interviews that are being set up with these minority candidates

when you know, like, the new GM hired, has his guy, are kind of a sham. You know, I mean, look, Shane in New York, the GM, the new GM came from Buffalo. He was going to hire Brian Dable. He wasn't going to hire. And

not going to hire Brian Flores. He had his guy. But the Rooney Rule says you have to interview a minority candidate. So it was going to be Brian Flores. I do think that one of the intents, correct me if I'm wrong, my memory of the Rooney Rule when it began was to create the process where teams were forced to interview minority candidates because they weren't interviewing minority candidates on the regular and that the experience and the exposure that the candidate that the African-American or the minority candidate would get would be super helpful. You know, we all understand that interviewing is something you're better at after you do it a few times than you are the first time.

And on this, on the flip side, these 32 white owners would also be exposed to some very qualified minority candidates. And so the Rooney Rule created this environment whereby owners got introduced to the fact that minority candidates were really qualified. And B, minority candidates got the experience and the exposure of interviewing. But it's become more in recent years, the owners, they've got their guy or their GM has their guy. And then they're also forced to interview a minority candidate that they know is not going to get the gig. Now, is there a benefit for the minority candidate to go through that interview process? There used to be, but we've had a lot of minority coaches.

I mean, I think it was seven or eight just a few years ago. Now it's one, well, two, counting Ron Rivera. So I've always kind of thought in recent years it's been a sham. It's for somebody else to determine whether or not it's a worthwhile rule still, if it's still beneficial. or the bottom line is we just got to hire more minority coaches. I mean, that'll solve the problem whether they're interviewed or not. Anyway, or whether they're forced to interview them or not.

Secondly, is that, you know, in a private business, it's really, and if you're the owner of that private business, you should have the right to be able to hire whomever you want for the job that have available. The problem is, is that what we've seen here in recent years is that some of the people that are getting hired aren't on paper more qualified than the minority candidates that they could have hired. And then it would appear as if the minority candidates aren't getting the same opportunity to succeed, meaning length of time, once they do get the gig, as maybe white candidates are getting. Now, you know, it's not like Joe Judge had a hell of a long time.

And we've got examples of white coaches being, you know, bum rushed out of there pretty quickly. But the David Cully hire last year was a ridiculous hire, you know. Firing Brian Flores in the moment a few weeks ago was the most surprising firing. He was nine and eight the last two years with a bad football team on offense. I mean, nothing on offense. I think he's a good coach. But I don't know what the answer to that is, and I don't know how this will proceed, because you have to prove that you aren't getting hired because of racial discrimination for this to work. Now, part of that is, before we get to the, I think, a massive bombshell in these allegations, is this blown text message from Bill Belichick to who he thought

he was sending it to, which was Brian Dable, the new coach of the Giants, but he was actually sending it to Brian Flores. For those of you that aren't familiar with this, so part of the lawsuit includes that

Bill Belichick mistakenly congratulated him for a job that he hadn't even interviewed for, but he wasn't really congratulating him. He was congratulating the guy that got hired. What happened was Bill sent a text message to Brian Flores.

By the way, who coached for Belichick in New England before he got the job in Miami. But he wasn't sending the text message to Brian. He sent a text message to Brian Flores, thinking that he was sending the text message to Brian Dable. Brian Dable, I guess he knows well. And he sent him a text that says, sounds like you have landed, congrats. So the response came back to Belichick. Did you hear something?

I didn't hear. Belichick responded, Giants, question mark, exclamation point, question mark, exclamation point, question mark, exclamation point. And Flores responded, I interview on Thursday. I think I have a shot at it. I think I have a shot at it. And Belichick responded, got it. I hear from Buffalo and the Giants that you are their guy.

Hope it works out for you if you want it to. Then Brian Flores responded, that's definitely what I want. I hope you're right, Coach. Thank you. And then Flores thought about the text that he got and said, I hear from Buffalo and the Giants. Well, Flores wasn't in Buffalo,

but there was another Brian that was in Buffalo. That was Brian Dable. So Flores texts Belichick back and says, coach, are you talking to Brian Flores or Brian Daibol? Just making sure. And Belichick texts him back. Sorry, I fucked this up. I double checked and I misread the text. I think they are naming Daibol.

I'm sorry about that. B.B. Bill Belichick. Brian Flores wrote back. Thanks, Bill. So old man Belichick texted to the wrong Brian. But what's really important about this is he texted this to Brian Daibol two days before Brian Flores was scheduled to interview for the job. So if Belichick knew that Daibu had the job, then the Flores interview was a sham.

It was just to check the box that we interviewed a minority candidate. So Belichick's going to have to... That would seem to be the case. So Belichick's a part of this case. He's used to it at this point. The statements came fast and furiously from various teams. The statement from the Giants read, We are pleased and confident with the process that resulted in the hiring of Brian Dable.

We interviewed an impressive and diverse group of candidates. The fact of the matter is Brian Flores was in the conversation to be our head coach. until the 11th hour. Ultimately, we hired the individual we felt was most qualified to be our next head coach. So, you know, it certainly doesn't sound based on the texting from Belichick that it came down to the 11th hour. And then there was another allegation, two other major ones. One was that Flores said when he interviewed for the Denver Broncos job in 2019 before he got the Dolphins job, that John Elway, the then team president and other Broncos executives walked into the room disheveled and clearly after a drunken night, not taking the interview seriously. The Broncos vehemently disputed that. They put out a

statement. The allegations from Brian Flores directed toward the Denver Broncos in today's court filing are blatantly false. Our interview with Mr. Flores regarding our head coaching position began promptly at the scheduled time of 7.30 a.m. on January 5th, 2019 in a Providence, Rhode Island Hotel. There were five Broncos executives present for the interview, which lasted approximately three and a half hours, the fully allotted time, and concluded shortly before 11 a.m. Pages of detailed notes, analysis, and evaluations from our interview demonstrate the depth of our conversation and sincere interest in Mr. Flores as a head coaching candidate. Our process was thorough and fair to determine the most qualified candidate for our head coach.

job, the Broncos will vigorously defend the integrity and values of our organization and its employees from such baseless and disparaging claims. And then the NFL's response was the NFL and our clubs are deeply committed to ensuring equitable employment practices and continue to make progress in providing equitable opportunities throughout our organizations. Diversity is core to everything we do and there are few issues in which our clubs and our internal leadership team spend more time. We will defend against these claims which are without merit. Okay, now let's get to the bombshell. Because, look, by the way, I'm not minimizing any of the other stuff.

I just don't have a good feel for how that will play out. I do have a good feel for how this will play out if it's true. In this lawsuit, Brian Flores alleges that Stephen Ross, the owner of the Miami Dolphins offered him $100,000 for each game that he lost in 2019.

He wanted him to lose those games on purpose because if you recall the 2019 season was the tank for two a season, or at least that's the way it started out. And the Dolphins, by the way, started off that 2019 season, losing 59 to 10,000, 43 to nothing, 31 to 6, 30 to 10. And then they played Washington.

And Josh Rosen, if you recall, started the game, and Washington took a big lead, and Ryan Fitzpatrick came into the game and brought him back. And then they had a two-point conversion to win the game. And we spent the next day talking about how the play that they ran had no chance, and they were clearly tanking the two-point conversion play. because they ran it, as Ryan Fitzpatrick said, with nobody that had practiced the play all week long. Tommy, you cannot, as an owner,

bribe a player or incentivize a player or coach to lose games with money. Okay, that is, that speaks, that goes right to the integrity of the competition, especially when you consider that this, league has snuggled up in bed, spooning each other with legalized sports betting. This guy's out if this is true. He's done. Can't own the team. Not only out, but he could face some federal charges. Right. I mean, he could wind up facing some legal issues for something like this.

Look, he's a weasel. Most of them are weasels, but he's a particular weasel in my book. So no tears will be shed for Stephen Ross if he goes. But do you think this will go to trial? Which part? This part? No, that means the whole lawsuit. Oh, I don't know. But, you know, to your point, like Congress getting involved in emails

and Washington football team sexual harassment, the integrity of the competition is paramount for this sport. Yes. I mean, they're going to be interested in this. And if Brian Flores, here's the sake, if Brian Flores is looking to make a statement, some kind of important game-changing statement in the NFL right now, or is he going to settle? Is there a number that he'll settle for?

I mean, I can't believe the league would ever want this to go to trial and have Stephen Ross on a witness stand. He was on ESPN's get-up this morning, the Greenberg show. That's the Greenberg show, I'm pretty sure. And he said the following, Brian Flores. Yeah, he said, quote, about this particular part of the lawsuit that Ross explicitly offered him $100,000 for each loss. The team suffered in 2019. By the way, if you're wondering, it was an attempt in an attempt to improve their draft position.

The funny thing is that ultimately, Flores obviously said, go to hell and put Ryan Fitzpatrick in the game, and they ended up winning five games that year, and ended up with the fifth pick where they got two of there, but they did not get Joe Burrow. But this morning on Get Up, he said about that. He said, quote, that was a conversation about not doing as much as we needed to do in order to win football games. He said, take a flight, go on vacation. I'll give you $100,000 per loss. Those were his exact words. I deal in truth. I tell the players this as well.

I'm going to give you good news, bad news, but it's going to be honest. To disrespect the game like that, trust was lost, and there were certainly some strained relationships, and ultimately, I think that was my demise in Miami, closed quote. I mean, this would be an unbelievable trial. if some of think about the witnesses that would be called Bill Belichick you know Ryan Fitzpatrick could be called as a witness yeah you know I mean it's just stunning I mean I hope it does go to trial but you know I mean the NFL is

that's got to put their legal eagles to work to try to get this thing thrown out I don't see how they're going to do that um but uh This is potentially a historic case for the league. Yeah, I mean, you look, everybody that season thought Miami was tanking for Tua early, and it was like so obvious. And it was the first time, you know, that a team seemed to be openly tanking games at the beginning of a season. You know, these seasons are so precious. in the NFL. And the line between, you know, not winning, between winning and losing is pretty fine.

You know, it's not like you're a college team that had everybody graduate the year before and you didn't get any transfers and you're just completely outmanned and you're going to get crushed. So whatever. I mean, there's no drafting college so there wouldn't be an incentive to lose anyway. But my point being that you don't, NFL teams don't go into seasons thinking number one draft choice. They just don't. Now, you get to a certain point in an NFL season, and you probably start to think that way, and games can be controlled by the players you play. Hey, coach, this is GM, you know, Chris Greer and owner Stephen Ross. We need to lose these games because Joe Burroughs the guy.

So play your second string guys, play your third string guys. But don't play Ryan Fitzpatrick. He's red hot right now. You know, that, that I think happens. But, you know, for a better for a gambler, as long as you're straight up with, hey, this is who's playing this Sunday. You know, you're not intentionally telling Ryan Fitzpatrick or Josh Rosen to go out there and throw five interceptions. You can't get players to do that. But the way you handle that is by the players you play.

Or, you know, when you, you know, you can do it through, you know, clock management. You can do it through scheme, I guess. but this guy wasn't having any of it because that season turned around with that Washington game. They nearly won the next two weeks and then all of a sudden they won five of their final nine games to play their way out of the Joe Burrough sweepstakes. I mean, it's going to be interesting how this develops. He was also... Who gets drawn into it.

Yeah, a lot of... Belichick for sure. I mean, you're pointing out some of those players that played for him, definitely. You know, obviously for him, it would be very helpful if he told somebody immediately after the offer, you know, rather than not having anybody to corroborate that part of it, because then it really becomes a he said, he said, or he said, or he said he said, I'm talking about the corroborating.

I mean, he needed to go tell somebody in the organization, do you know what the owner just said to me? The owner just offered me a hundred K for each loss in my first year coaching this team. With respect to the Belichick text messages, he said on Get Up this morning about them. He said, quote, disbelief, humiliation. That was a tough pill to swallow. I have a great amount of respect for Bill and Brian Daibald. I was upset that I wasn't getting a true opportunity to show what I can bring to a team, closed quote. Yeah, despite knowing the Giants would eventually hire Brian Dayball,

Flores prepared and attended his interview with the team on January 27th, partly out of hope that the Giants would give him fair consideration, he told ESPN, but ultimately Flores says the interview just checked the Rooney Rule Box. Yeah. You know, and he said, we go into these interviews and they're shams. It does seem that way every year. It seems that way. Like, you know what?

Leslie Frazier's they're going to interview Leslie Frazier seems like Frazier and there's like four or five guys that always get interviewed. I mean, to me, it's amazing that Jim Caldwell doesn't have a job. Hell of a coach. The most successful Detroit Lions coach in decades.

And he can't get hired anywhere. That's stunning. Crazy. I mean, the fact that... On 11 games, I think, with the Indianapolis Colts, too. The fact that that moron, you know, Joe, Judge actually got a gig. And that John Merrow was actually considering keeping him

midway through the year. Let me just say if Joe Judge were still the coach in New York and that wasn't an open job, because where are we right now? We're four hires in, four or five to go, and not one minority has been hired yet. And I think Brian Flores may have been a potential in a couple of places. But I don't know if anybody else is. Anyway, let's finish up this show.

We'll do that right after these words. Okay, both. From a few of our sponsors. I wanted to talk briefly about Tom Brady. Your team might have missed the big game this year, but MyBooky's double deposit bonus, make sure you won't. Sign up at MyBooky right now. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C.

To have your first deposit matched instantly so you can get in on all of the action for Super Bowl 56. The only way watching the biggest game of the year could get any better is to get paid doing it. And my bookie gives you everything you need to do that. With double your money, you can double your winnings. And the best starting point for the big game is with Super Bowl prop bets. Whether it's on or off the field stuff, there's no shortage of wagers to choose from for the Super Bowl. So get in on the action. They've got plenty of prop bets for this game.

You guys will be amazed at all of the different things that they are offering action on. out. Head to My Bookie. Double your first deposit up to $1,000 by using my promo code, Kevin D.C. Place your bets and get ready for the unmatched excitement of the Super Bowl. Bet anything, anytime, anywhere with my bookie. Tom Brady's best game ever against Washington came on October 28, 2007. Joe Gibbs was coaching that Washington football game in 2007. In fact, that 2007 season was going pretty well. They were four and two headed to New England on October 28th, Tommy.

They had beaten the Arizona Cardinals the week before on a touchdown pass to Santana Moss. Two weeks prior to that was that famous game in Green Bay that they lost 17 to 14 when Sean Taylor ended up with the multiple interception game. Sean Taylor in that game had two picks, should have had four. and they went to New England and it was a CBS or a Fox I'm sorry 425 late window game Washington Redskins

New England Patriots was actually kind of a big game New England beat them 52 to 7 it was a blowout of epic proportions and Tom Brady in that game without really doing anything in the fourth quarter or not much 29 and 38, 306 yards, three touchdowns, no interceptions.

They rolled up nearly 500 yards that day, and a 52 to 7 win over Washington. But you know, the first time they played Brady, they took them to the house. I know. The first time Washington played Brady, they beat them 20 to 17. That's when Spurrier was there, and Brady threw three interceptions. And you do know that that was. in that particular year, that was the final, wasn't that their final loss of the year?

That was their final loss of the year. Yeah, that was their final loss of the year before going on to win the Super Bowl. Yeah. Yeah, they went 14 and 2 and then beat Carolina in the Super Bowl. They had been 2 and 2 after that loss. Your thoughts about Tom Brady? Well, you know, I used to claim that Jim Brown

was the greatest football player in the history of the league. I've changed that to Tom Brady. There have been quarterback debates as who's the greatest quarterback in the history of league. I don't think there are really any more such debates. I think it's Brady and what he accomplished. And again, you know, if you can take what you do and take it someplace else and do the same thing like he did last year in Tampa, that's the exclamation point on a career.

Because people would say, was it Brady, was it Belichick? You know, that debate always goes on. But if you can take your game someplace else and go to the Super Bowl and win it again, then, you know, you've ended the argument right there. So I think he's degraded. It is just, it's amazing some of the, some of the stats, you know, having participated in 19 more playoff games than number two on the list, Joe Montana, Brady at 35, Montana at 16. The seven Super Bowl wins, the 10 Super Bowl appearances.

None of that, I think, will ever, ever be matched. And Cooley and I talked a little bit about some of that stuff yesterday. But in the annals of team sports, we won't go to individual sports. in the annals of team sports, is Brady the greatest winner of all time, or is Russell? I think Russell is. I think Russell is. I mean, Brady was a backup quarterback sometimes at Michigan. Russell won two national championships in college. I'm talking about as a pro. Sorry. Okay, well, anyway, no, I think Russell is.

And I'd tell you to be honest with you, I think Yogi Bear is the second biggest. Where do you put... And World Series rings. Yeah, I know. What about, where do you put Michael Jordan in that conversation? Six championships. Yeah. One less than Brady.

See, Russell's 11 in that sport when there were far fewer teams and far fewer great teams in terms of the balance and the depth. And I'm speaking in an area where I'm not as familiar as you are. For me, it's more of sort of a basketball junkie. You actually remember these games and these Celtic teams. But I think it was probably a lot more likely year and year out that Russell was going to win a title, given that he was on the best team in a sport that didn't have a lot of teams or a lot of contenders. There was no free agency back then, too. I mean, you know, players couldn't go from team to team.

This argument always drives me nuts about the NBA then, because there weren't that many teams as there are now. So what that made, I mean, that's an argument for Russell. I know what you're going to say. Of all the great players were concentrated. I mean, it wasn't a dilution of talent because you had so many teams. Right. Or. Russell's my, look, it's a subjective argument.

Russell will always be the greatest winner. Of course it's subjective. I was just going to say with respect to what you said, I know you've said that before, and it's like it's an argument for Russell because you had fewer teams, which meant every team was loaded with talent. But there may have been a lot of talented players that didn't get to play in the league because there weren't enough teams, which would have created a more dynamic and more difficult competitive landscape. I don't know. Football, you know, football being set up the way it's set up with design for parity. designed for, you know, a very fine line talent-wise. So things like, you know, the way you run an organization, and then things that are out of your hands like health end up being, you know, really large determinants in the outcomes. I don't know. You're probably right that it's Russell 11 titles.

11 he had. But Yogi Beratami isn't the player that Russell or Brady was. He just happened to have been on, I'm not saying he wasn't a great player, but he wasn't the same level of player that Russell and Brady were, but he has 10 World Series rings. It's a three-time MVP, Kevin. You're showing Yogi Berra very short. Do you think he's...

What about Russell or Brady? Casey Stangle called him the second manager of the Yankees. Now, obviously, Mickey Mantle's on that team. There's great players on that team, but Yoki Bear is one of the greatest catchers in the history of baseball. Yeah, I know that. I know he is. I'm asking you more than making a statement here.

Would you put him as a player, pretend you didn't know any of the championship numbers? Was he at the caliber that Bill Russell was in his heyday with the Celtics as the center or Tom Brady was as a quarterback of the Patriots? They are all top five in their position. How many players on Barra's Yankee championship teams were better than Barra? One, Mickey Mantle. Did he play with DiMaggio or not? At the end of his career.

Okay. At DiMaggio, and then DiMaggio's career. Okay. Brady, it's so funny because I think the conversation about Brady as it relates to football, not taking it to other sports and talking about being a winner. Brady's obviously without any debate the greatest winner in the history of football. There's nobody close. I mean, that's not even a debate.

And by the way, that was settled several years ago. But I think there is a debate as to whether or not he's the greatest quarterback that's ever played the game. And I say yes. But I do understand the people that will say, did you see John Elway play? Did you see Dan Marino play? What about Aaron Rogers from this era? What about Peyton Manning? you know, et cetera, et cetera.

And there are quarterbacks that, like, if I were just watching a game knowing nothing about the players in one particular weekend, and I watched Aaron Rogers play and I watched Tom Brady play, because of the way they play stylistically, I'd probably say, wow, man, that Aaron Rogers sees something else. You know, I'll take Rogers. You know, Elway the same way. Elway jumped off the screen in the way he played because of his athleticism,

because of his arm strength, because of his playmaking ability. But Brady's playmaking ability was his brain and also his movement within the pocket, and by the way, his size, his accuracy, and his arm strength, which wasn't Elway arm strength. It wasn't Marino arm strength. It's not Aaron Rogers' arm strength. It's not Patrick Mahomes' arm strength, but it's still a very strong arm. And you've got to watch Brady week in and week out year after year to come to the conclusion, if that's the conclusion you come to, that he's just as good if not a better player than any of those that I mentioned.

But if you just watch them in a vacuum one weekend, there are seven guys that have played the game minimum that you'd probably immediately say, no, I'll take that guy, I'll take Elway. I'll take Rogers. I'll take Mahomes. I mean, even Mahomes now. You know, because pocket passer. You know, just like in, you wouldn't after watching John Elway and Johnny Unitas, if you didn't know how great they were in one game and one weekend,

you'd say, no, I'll take number seven. 19 looks like he's kind of old and slow and can, you know, can barely get out of his arm. But my God, one of the most brilliant quarterbacks of all time. But I think, but I personally think you can make the case that. Brady's also the greatest player. I think you can. But I think that's more of a debate. The winner thing is not a debate.

I wanted to finish the show. I just wanted to finish the show with these two things. So last night I watched Marilyn, and Marilyn played well. They had a chance to beat number 13 Michigan State. Would have been their second win over top 15 team in a week and a half. Maryland's not a terrible team. I've been mentioning that all year long. They're totally capable.

They're going to win some of these games. They already have. last night would have been a surprising win. Michigan State came in as the number 13 team in the country. They needed to win to tie Illinois, I think, in Wisconsin for first or Purdue for first in the Big Ten. And Maryland was down 15, roared back, and had the ball with under a minute to go in a tie game. So I am, I'm happy that they're really playing hard and playing, you know, as if there's still a season to be had. They're 11 and 11 now, three and eight in the big 10. They really needed last night.

And you look back and they had a one-point loss to a ranked Wisconsin team at home and a two-point loss with two seconds to go last night to Michigan State. If you reverse those two results, Marilyn's actually in the conversation right now for the tournament. They're essentially three points away from being a tournament, you know, bubble team. But I like the way they keep playing hard. And they've got good players. You know, I-Ale is a good player and Scott's a good player. Hakeem Hart is a good player.

And Fats Russell is a good player. And I think it was Robbie Hummel, who was doing the game last night, kept saying, you know, this team is, you know, their starting five is right up there with almost anybody in this league. And I think he's right. But here's where they have issues. And this is going to piss some of you people off because you're going to say, there you are, again, just defending Turgeon.

Maryland would have a better record right now and have more Big Ten wins if Mark Turgeon was coaching the team, in my opinion. And I'll give you the single most important reason in my mind as to why. Maryland's not a good defensive team right now. And they're pretty much and have pretty much always been with Mark Turgeon coaching it. A good defensive team that not only is good but gets better as the season goes along. And they are not a good defensive team right now. You can look at shooting percentages and scores and whatever.

It is a parade to the rim against them. They don't rebound well. And by the way, they didn't rebound well at times last year either because they were small. But I think Maryland would have a better record and would be a bubble tournament team if Turgeon were coaching it. So that's all I'm going to say. The second thing is last night, Tommy, last night in college basketball. Chris Beard. I'm the coach who took Texas Tech, Texas Tech, to a national championship game two years ago,

where they lost to Virginia in overtime. He's one of the best coaches in the country. Well, in the offseason, he left for big, big money at the University of Texas. And Texas last night went to Texas Tech, went to Lubbock to face Texas Tech, his first Chris Beard's first game back at Texas Tech. Oh my God, the reaction. They were pelting the bus coming in. I mean, it's unbelievable how incredibly, you know, borderline violent they were towards the Texas Tech team.

They had to get a police escort off the court where they left. Vulgar, vulgar chance, police escorts, students in the arena walking around getting into Beards face before the game started. Texas Tech won the game. I haven't seen that juiced up of an arena at a college game in a long time. It was so electric. It was so loud. And this is for Texas Tech.

They don't care about basketball. It couldn't give a shit about basketball. This guy took them to a national championship game two years ago and nearly won it. I can't even imagine feeling. that way about a guy that had provided me with a thrill that I would have never, ever expected. I couldn't believe the behavior towards Beard. I never quite get that, particularly in college. It's Texas, though.

That's the part of it that I do get. You know, all of those teams in the Big 12, they hate Texas. And now that Texas is leaving for the SEC, they really hate Texas. So I understand that part of it. But I couldn't believe the behavior towards him. But what an environment. I mean, when Beard was coaching at Texas Tech, the arena, when they were really good, was barely three quarters filled.

And they came back last night to hurl vulgar insults at him throughout the night and boo him, you know, for the entire night. I just, I couldn't believe it. I kept thinking to myself, who do you guys think you are? this dude provided you with one of the greatest thrills you'll ever have because it's not like they're competing for national championships in football, which they care about. But anyway, Lubbock, you can have it, I think.

I've never been to Lubbock. I've been to College Station. Neither have I. College Station's not as bad as I thought it would be. I've heard Lubbock's not great. What else you got? I got nothing else, boss. All right, let's get this thing out.

Guys, enjoy the show back tomorrow.