The Kevin Sheehan Show - Washington-Dallas Feels Big + Van Pelt

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

Kevin opened with his feeling that Sunday's game in Dallas is one of the more important Cowboy-Washington games in recent years. Scott Van Pelt jumped on to talk NFL, College Football, and Terps. For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match Want to spruce up your lawn? FastGrowingTrees.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. No Tommy today. He had something he had to take care of. He'll be back with me on Tuesday.

I do have Scott Van Pelt on the show with me today. So Scott will jump on with me in the next segment. We'll talk NFL. We'll talk Washington. We'll talk Terps. College football. And probably a lot for the show's presenting sponsors. as always window nation, 86690 nation, windonation.com if you need new windows.

By the way, Tommy did text me his final score prediction for Sunday. He's picking Dallas to win Sunday 31 to 30. I'll have my preview, keys to a win over the Cowboys and a prediction on tomorrow's show. Along with Jay Gruden and I think Mickey Spagnola, who's covered the Cowboys, forever will be on the show with me tomorrow as well. This from Lane to kick off the show today. Lane writes, Kevin, I agree with you. Feels like the biggest Dallas-Washington game in years.

It also feels like a Code Red game because of what follows on the schedule. Lane, I'll get to the Code Red suggestion in a few minutes. But this morning on radio, and I may have mentioned it yesterday, I do kind of feel this game a bit. I feel like it's an important game. And there have been few and far between these two teams in recent years. So maybe that's adding to it

because it kind of feels like the most important game Washington and Dallas have played against each other in a while. Add to that, it's the national TV game. It's not actually going to the entire country. It's like 80% of the country. 425, Fox, Burkhart, Brady. on the call. It just feels like this is a game that is as important a game that Dallas and Washington have played against each other in a long time. Now, I think if both teams had won last week,

4 and 2 versus 3, 2 and 1, Philly sitting there at 4 and 2 would have felt really big. Instead, they're both coming off losses. Dallas lost Carolina, Washington lost on Monday night. But, man, there have not been many meaningful games between these two teams over the last two decades. I mean, it's sad, really. I went back just over the last 10 years. I can find maybe three or four games out of the 20 over the last 10 years, twice a year, that have been played that felt kind of important heading into the games. The most important game that these two franchises and long,

longtime rivals have played against each other in the last 10 years came on Thanksgiving Day 2016. I mean, that is now almost 10 years ago. 2016 Thanksgiving, the Cowboys were 9 and 1, Washington was 6.3 in 1, and it was a heavyweight matchup in the moment. And it was Dallas and Washington on Thanksgiving. And at that moment, it was the most watched game on Fox during the regular season. season that they had ever had. I mean, it felt big going in. The crowd was amped up. The build up, even though it was only four days. Washington had thumped Green Bay on Sunday night football,

and the Cowboys were nine and one. And it was a great football game. Dallas won at 31 to 26. It was really an offensive shootout. Washington missed a couple of field goals, which were really important in that game. And the defense just couldn't get off the field. But it was a really good football game. That in the last decade. And by the way, the RG3 three game was 2012, the season ender where they were playing for the division at

FedEx Field. That's now 13 seasons ago. You know, they played a couple of games in 2017 and 2018 that in 2017, Washington was just ravaged by injuries. And then the next year, you know, after the really

good start with Alex Smith, he gets injured. That season, you know, tanks. You know, that season did have a game in the regular season in October that Washington won 20 to 17. Both teams had winning records. And Washington was off to that really good start. And then Thanksgiving Day that year, six and four Washington, but with Colt McCoy a quarterback, because Smith had been injured four days earlier against the Texans in that horrific injury, the Cowboys were five and five. That kind of felt big, but not. you know, like the 2016 game.

2021, actually, Dallas was 8 and 4. Washington was 6 and 6, and on a 4-game win streak. Remember when they beat Tampa, you know, with Brady and Gibson was running really well, and the defense had stepped up, and they played Dallas 6-and-6 as a 6-and-6, but a red-hot 6-and-6 in December at FedEx Field. The Cowboys were 8 and 4. the Cowboys won that game 27 to 20. It really wasn't that close.

Washington got back in it late. But, you know, that season imploded with all of the COVID absences. Garrett Gilbert quarterbacked a game like on a Tuesday night in Philadelphia. But in that particular moment, there was some anticipation for that game because Washington was rolling and Dallas was pretty good. But that's really it. I mean, the Thanksgiving Day game 2016, maybe a pair of games that had some juice in 2018, and then the game in 2021. But man, these two teams, you know, the rivalry that once was the biggest in the NFL,

one of the biggest in sports, really for two decades plus now, has not been all that. You know, Sunday's matchup isn't a matchup where you say, wow, these are two really. good teams right now. But Dallas's offense is arguably one of the top two or three in the league. Jaden Daniels is must watch, and both teams think they can compete for something this year. I think the Cowboys believe that even with that defense, and it's a terrible defense, their offense, and I think they're going to get C.D. Lamb back this week is capable of being good enough to contend for a playoff spot. So this game's crucial, you know, for both at this point in the season. Very crucial. It would have felt bigger if both came in on winning streaks, but nonetheless, it kind of feels

important to me anyway. Now, as far as the code red suggestion from Lane, I don't see this as, you know, primary color code red. It might be a little code reddish, reddish, because if Washington loses to fall to three and four with Kansas City on the road looming the following Monday night, you're staring at three and five. And in a loaded NFC, I know what the reaction is. You know what the reaction will be. It'll be doom, panic. Season would feel over eight games into it. If it does play out that way, if they were to lose two to get to three and five, I don't feel like it's over. I mean, these seasons, you know, they change, they evolve, they're very dynamic always. But Washington does, following the next two on the road, have three of their next four at home with the one non-home game being the Madrid game, the Spain game against the dolphins.

Now, the three home opponents are good ones, Seattle, Detroit, and Denver, but they would have a chance if the next two weeks don't go well to get back into it. you know, because of the run of home games. And by the way, the dolphins, the dolphins are in trouble, man. You know, the dolphins are underdogs this week against the Browns on the road. And I was thinking about this. I'm digressing here for a moment. But I was thinking that if they lose to the Browns on Sunday, Mike McDaniel might be coaching his final game.

I could see him getting fired. And I could see the dolphin season going completely. into the tank, which would make that Madrid game, certainly a game that would favor Washington. They, you know, they could beat Cleveland. Things are, you know, going sideways there with the Tua throwing the team under the bus, with, you know, people not showing up for players-only meetings. Mike McDaniel just looks like dead man walking. To me, I could be wrong, but if they lose to Cleveland on Sunday, we might get a coach firing in some headlines on Monday. morning. But again, you know, lose the next two. I don't think it's over. I think it's a long way from over, you know, so I don't view it as code red. Look, the NFC East, and I think I said this last week, the NFC east in the NFC right now might be the weakest division in the NFC. The NFC West has

three teams at four and two. The NFC South has the bucks at five and one, the foul at 3 and 2, who are really coming on. Panthers are back at 500. The NFC North's entire division is above 500. Chicago's 3 and 2. Minnesota's 3 and 2. And then Green Bay is 3-1-1, and Detroit is 4-2 after the loss to Kansas City. So the NFC East, this might be the year where you got a lot of injuries, things

don't go exactly your way. You still got the quarterback, hopefully the offense, and the NFC East might be getable with nine or ten wins. So three and five would be far from a death sentence, even though it would certainly seem that way

in the moment. Long way to go. I don't think Sunday's code read, but it is sort of a need to get, that's for sure, to keep everybody from jumping ship, you know, and thinking that the season is over.

I think they are going to win Sunday. More on that coming up tomorrow. Look, I could see right now, and I'll talk about this tomorrow, I could see what Tommy has predicted, you know, 30-something to 30-something, and it could go down to the final possession. But I like Washington's chances Sunday.

I do. Much more on that on tomorrow's show. I wanted to finish up this first segment with two sound bites. The first one is from Cliff King, Kingsbury earlier today. Steve Suter, if you missed the film breakdown, it was great yesterday, and he talked about how Chris Paul, he believes, is their best offensive linemen right now.

And when Cosmi's ready to come back, and I don't know if it's going to be this week, but when he's ready to come back, that there's no way Chris Paul's coming out of the lineup. It'll be Wiley who comes out of the lineup. Well, Ben Standig actually asked Cliff Kingsbury about Chris. Paul. Here's what he said. Cliff, what is Chris Paul doing to be successful in your eyes? And how are you taking advantage of it? What does that change for you? He's a guy who from day one, us getting here until now, I mean, it looks like completely

different human. Just the way he plays, he's changed his body, really got in shape. And he's just a physical presence for us in the run game and the past game. He gets his hands on. He's really hard to get around. And then just he's one of the best communicators I've ever been around on the O-line, really talking through things, you know, talking through protections and run game and points and things of that nature. So the O-line really appreciates that about him. And so he's just been a real pleasant surprise, actually, this season to see him step up. And, you know, that left side with him and LT has really helped us run the football well at times. Interesting that a player that really didn't play much in his first few years in the NFL has emerged,

surprisingly, even to Cliff Kingsbury, as a real, reliable, you know, interior offensive linemen for this team. Nobody had, over the summer, Chris Paul emerging as a starter and a very good player at the position. The other soundbite I wanted to play for you came from Joe Witt, Jr. and his presser here on coordinator Thursday. You'll hear the question. It's about the explosive plays they give up. I want you to listen to his answer. You talked about the explosive plays earlier, and I know that each one is kind of its own individual thing,

but thematically, when you look at them all together, is it more scheme or execution? And what is it like for you as the decoordinated or watching the film of those plays? You know, it's the execution and the communication that. If we have great pre-snap communication, it provides better post-knap play. And so a lot of the plays are a place that we've gone over,

we just have to make sure we're executing them on game day. You know, that's just what it is. You know, some of them, like I said, the big play that hit us in this last game, it was a play that should have gone for eight. It went for 55 because of a mistackle. That falls into that same bucket of explosives, you know. So let me just start with this before I get to what I really want to get to

in response to the answer that Joe, what Jr. just gave. Overall, his presser today was different than the one two weeks ago, in which he really didn't take any accountability. Not that he needed to, and maybe he is right. Maybe this is all about the players. He didn't do that as much as he did two weeks ago, although in this particular answer, you did hear him say that it was more execution than scheme and talked about, you know, pre-snap, you know, communication, it's got to be better. It provides better post-snap play. But that's actually not the part of the answer that I want to focus on.

When he says at the end, you know, the big play that hit us in the last game, the play that should have gone for eight but went for 55 because of a mistackle, and that falls into the same bucket of explosives, well, yeah, it does because it went 55 yards. and sometimes explosives are a result of bad tackling. They're not always because of bad coverage communication or no pass rush or any other, you know, of three, four, five typical reasons for an explosive. But the point here that I want to make is, you know, what I hear in that answer is what I heard after the Atlanta game, when he and even Dan Quinn after that Atlanta game said, you know, if you go back and you look at the giant game

in the Raiders game, you know, we did rush the passer well. We did stop the run well. I don't want them, and I don't think they are, but I don't want to feel like they are putting too much stock into how good they were against the run and how good they were against the pass rush specifically in games in which they were playing teams that just weren't ready to compete on those days.

The Giants with Russell Wilson, and no Andrew Thomas, obviously the Raiders who have been just abysmal, and even the Chargers who were absolutely messed up and decimated along the offensive line, are not good measuring sticks for this defense. The Packers, the Falcons, and the Bears are, and the Bears aren't even a great measuring stick. But here's the thing, if he thinks that the 55-yard play on Monday night was like the only explosive? I mean, D'Andre Swift had runs of 19, 15, and 10 yards. There were screens completed for 37 and 25. There was another 21-yard throw to a dunzee. And my God, we talked about this with Souter yesterday. Zakias is wide open on 2nd and 16 from their own three-yard line

for a 97-yard play potentially. And Caleb Williams missed people all over. the place. It was not a good night for the defense. This was not about 155-yard play that was a result of a mistackle. It just wasn't. And I'm not sitting here telling you that they don't know that, but that answer gives me at least the thought that they are kind of missing it here. And they're trying to hang their hat on a couple of games in which the the opponents weren't that good. They're going to get a very good offensive opponent on Sunday. We'll see.

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He'll be on tonight after the Pittsburgh Cincinnati game on Amazon, where he will release his winners for the weekend. We'll talk Washington and get your thoughts on them coming up here in a few minutes. But I wanted to start with just the NFL in general and the NFC specifically. Do you see it the way I do, which is the NFC is loaded this year? top to bottom, and that it's really kind of hard to sort out at this point? Yes, and the thing I find most compelling about it all is that I don't know that there's a great team in either conference. I mean, the records would tell you that. There's only one, five, and one team in each conference, and there's no undefeated. Had Washington won Monday,

there would have been the most teams through six games at four and two in history, but they unfortunately weren't able to get there. But regardless, I think there are so many teams that I think you could make a case for, let's just take Atlanta, for example, on Monday night against Buffalo. They look fantastic. And Bejohn Robinson looks like one of, if not the most dynamic players in the NFL. Okay. And they beat the AFC's presumed favorite coming into that game.

that's the same team that got beat 30 to nothing by a Carolina Panther team who at their worst look like they don't practice. And so I feel like that's the snapshot. And you could do some version of that, it feels, Kevin, about most teams in the NFL right now. And good bad or indifferent really doesn't matter because we're all going to watch it. I just, I think, is the NFC loaded? I think so. And I think the team that can most comfortably live closer to its ceiling than it's

in its basement is the one that we'll be talking about in January and then potentially February. But there are a lot of candidates at the moment. God, there really are. And you know, you mentioning Atlanta and then talking about the game that they lost to the Panthers 30 to nothing. And then the Panthers, what they've done, and if you really examine the Carolina Panthers, they're pretty strong in the trenches. Like, they can stop the run and they can run the football, which is all.

always been a long-time formula for being a competitive NFL team. I actually think Canales is, I don't know if he's underrated. He's done, he did an incredible job with Gino Smith in Seattle, an incredible job with Baker Mayfield in Tampa. Is he doing the same thing with, with young? I don't know, put on the tape against New England and you'll be convinced they didn't practice. I mean, just, that's my point.

You watch them against Dallas, and Dallas is, sort of everyone's get-right game on offense. I mean, if you don't hang big numbers offensively against them, then you're really on the struggle bus. But Carolina played very well against them, but the tape a couple of weeks prior when they went to New England and played a much better, a much better Patriot team.

They were horrific. Now, I mean, Rico Dowdell has a couple of eye-opening games, one against this former team. But I do agree, just to answer your question, they're good in the trenches. I root for Bryce Young. He's a wonderful young man. I want to see him be successful.

So maybe they're good. I mean, that's my point. The tape against, say, Dallas is, hey, that's a good team. The tape against Atlanta, same deal. There's several other tapes you could put on where they just look, again, like they just, what do they do on Wednesday through Sunday? I have no idea. Yeah, it's the NFL.

So if I thought on Sunday night that I was watching, and I agree with you, there's like so much going on here. There's so many teams. It's hard to kind of decipher. for it, but I did feel like Sunday night. I was watching, at least in the moment, and I think maybe long-term, you know, potential, the two best teams, the chiefs and the Lions in each conference. What do you think of both of those teams?

That's a very reasonable assessment. I think it's, I think people are just collectively sick of Kansas City in the way that they got sick of New England. Any team that's good for a long time, that isn't your favorite team, people tire up. And that definitely has happened to Kansas City. And then they got absolutely boat raced in the Super Bowl. Then they lost their first two games to begin the season. And there was a lot of celebratory throwing of dirt on caskets, which is ridiculous,

because they get worthy back, and now they get Rishi Rice back this week. And they're better from left tackle to right tackle up front than they have been. And they've got Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid and a bunch of inspagnola and on and on and on. So I think Kansas City is absolutely about to become, remind everybody who they are. They didn't become something different. And Detroit played that first game at Green Bay, where Green Bay's defense looked like a wrecking ball, and Detroit looked bad, and it was the real easy low-hanging fruit to say,

man, they really miss Glenn and Johnson. That's not the same team. And then they go on a great role where they look like Detroit. And that game the other night was really an example of, settling for three when the other team got six and they had a touchdown call back. And it was closer than the final margin looked. So I agree that those two teams might very well be the teams that represent the AFC and the NFC.

I mean, there was good a guess as any, sure. I feel like outside of that first week in Lambo, which feels like an outlier, Detroit has mostly looked like I expect them to look week in and week out. Is Philadelphia going the route of the 2023 Eagles? or will they turn it around and be last year's 2024 version? That's so funny you asked me that. I did an on-camera on SportsCenter the other night where I said, this team has done this two versions of this in the last two years.

One, it all fell apart in the end, and they got beaten by double digits at Tampa Bay in the wildcard round. And the other one, they won 17 of 18 games or something and beat the crap out of the NFC championship opponent and the Super Bowl opponent. Which one, it doesn't feel more like one or another to me, other than that it feels like a team that exists in this weird place where their record's really good, and we talk about them like they stink. And I think a lot of that is born out of the fact that these stars on the team

aren't afraid to let you know that they're not thrilled with how things are going, even if they're winning. And Siriani is a guy that I think is a bit of a lightning rod. Like people love to jump on them. I know my cohorts on count down, Marcus Spears, in particular, like, man, that kind of a hell of a football coach. Just look at his record. He's been in two Super Bowls already.

I don't hear this bullshit about like he's not a good coach. He's a really good coach. They win more than most people. So I side with that. I think they're good. I just don't understand sometimes. Like, you don't complete a pass in a second half of a game, but you win.

So does that matter? I guess not. But you'll lose a game in the second half where Sequot only runs it six times, and you go, well, is that a recipe that you really want to sign up for? They're endlessly interesting. You know, there's that,

and they play into that because they don't keep much of it in-house. They all sort of share out loud, right? That they have these players-only meetings and all the rest. So I'm rambling here. I think they're good. I just think they're going to continue

to be this sort of melodrama that surrounds them whether they're good or whether they're bad. I am building up to asking you about our team, but is there anything about Baker Mayfield that you can't root for as a football fan? No, I'm a big, big fan. And I got to know him through the years, and he's just got this edge that even exists

when you're just BS and with him off camera. He's that guy. Like, he's got a whole, whole shit to this game that fuels him in a really positive way. And, I mean, talking to Troy the other night, like, here's a guy that, you know, was the quarterback of this America's team and three Super Bowls and the Hall of Fame and the whole bit. And he's just this unabashed adores the way Mayfield plays.

And we showed that third and 14 scramble the other night to start our show. And it's just the microcosm of the guy. He should have been sacked, should have been stopped short. you know, and he gets there, and then he gets up and flexes, and then a play later throws a touchdown to like the fifth string receiver on the team. But, Kevin, that's the first game. They're 5-1, best drunk of the NFC. That's the first game where they could take a knee at the end.

Because in all the other wins, it required them to win as the game ended. Yep. Meaning they could just as easily be 1 and 5 as they are 5-1. And that, again, there's another snapshot. You want to say, here's a team that could be one or the other. I think they're way closer to being the better part of that record. But the point is they've lived perilously close to being two and three, one and five, you know, whatever.

Like, they've, they've close to that. I've been a big Todd Bowles fan for a long time now. Me too. And I'm wondering what the rest of the league, the people that you're around, what do they think of him? The other night on countdown, when I said, I talked about Baker and how much I'm talking, like if people want to talk about him for MVP, it's way too early, but I understand it's fodder for content. Like, you know, whether you're doing radio and podcast or TV, I mean, it's, we need the churn of the content. MVP talk. It doesn't interest me. I get why people are talking about it. If you're going to mention him for MVP, then when do we start the Todd Bulls for Coach of the Year?

Because whenever I hear good coaches mentioned, I don't hear his name. And Ryan immediately is like, thank you. I know I swag, Jason Kelsey, these guys that have been in it. Those guys all have nothing but respect for Todd. And I said this on the podcast I do with Steve the other day. I said, you know, he might not be a great sound bite. And Steve, I don't care about a sound bite. I said, neither do I. That's my point. I think he's an all cake, no icing guy, all substance, no flash.

I don't need him to give me sound bites. I just think the guys respond to him in respect. And they've won four straight south. And you can roll your eyes and go, that's not a great division. I don't care. they managed to figure out how to be the best of a mediocre division, and maybe this year they're more than that. But Bowles has massive buy-in from guys that have done it.

And that, to me, is all the endorsement I need. Yeah, Jay Gruden's told me many times that Bowles was always difficult to coach against. He tried to hire at one point, and he ended up. Kevin, isn't that the, isn't that right there? There's your answer. Like, look to the people who've done it and ask them, how is he viewed? I didn't want to ever coach against him because it was a pain in the ass. that's as big a compliment as there is.

Yeah, I think, you know, there have been some moments, you know, the end of the Detroit playoff game a couple of years ago. He really kind of butcher that. Yeah, and, you know, in New York, he never had a quarterback when he got his first opportunity to be a head coach. But no one's ever questioned his defensive, you know, I'm not going to use the word genius, but his defensive, you know, sort of effectiveness,

coordinator, play caller, the whole thing. I don't know. To me, he's always been easy to root for, in part because he's so old school, and he's a terrible sound bite. On that level, though, because he's so bad, sometimes it's entertaining to watch his press conferences. All right, what do you? I agree.

Yeah, go ahead. But just to be fair, yeah, I mean, in giving him this praise, like he mangled the end of that Detroit game. Unfortunately, he's got a lot of company when it comes to. sure he does. The teams that handle the execution of the playing the clock timeout game exactly right. It's amazing how few

do it the way they ought to, which is why I know for years you were offering your services to just sit up there in a booth and let them know, hey, it's time to call time out. And I mean the teams, by the way, have done that because you need that help. So anyway. All right. What do you make of our team

right now at 3 and 3 after Monday night? Exactly what I said about a couple of other teams, you could say it about Washington. If it's not missing slash raining late and Jayden's able to get the ball to Bill and you get a first down and now you play the clock game with Chicago, and you're able to bleed the clock and win the game, then Washington's four and two, and you're like, all right, here we go. But they didn't.

And now I think it invites a real hard look at a much more difficult schedule, and you look at just the next two. where at Dallas is, they might win, but I don't imagine it'll be easy. And then you go to Arrowhead, and then you come home for Detroit and Seattle, I believe it is. And you know, and you've still got some heavy lifting to do on the back end of the season. And because we're talking after that lead evaporated and you look at the schedule and it seems daunting, there's certainly concerned. And it's not just what your schedule is.

It's what are the tape say? They don't tackle well. They didn't at Atlanta. They didn't the other night. You know, Swift gets free and, you know, an eight-point lead becomes a two-point lead in a minute because of, you know, a play that's maybe a first down throw turns into a touchdown throw. That's been a problem all season long. So Jaden is able to make up for plenty, but, you know, you can't ask him to mask everything.

And the defense has got to be better. And you've heard Dan talk about it pretty, I think, bluntly, this week. And so it's concerning. And I think going into the year, there was every reasonable fan looked at the schedule and thought they could be as good and

have a way worse record. They could be better and have still not as good a record. And it seemed likely that they'd have a worse record just given what the schedule that they played last year and the number of quarter... I mean, you I think you and I were on the phone the other day just obviously off air, just running

through the quarterback they faced last year. And you got Cooper Rush a couple of times. I mean, you got the benefit of a lot of the good sports. Andy Dalton, the list goes on. And they almost lost that game. They barely won that game. They got Kenny Pickett in the game that they won against Philadelphia for most of that game. Yeah, no.

And that's not what's set up this year for sure. No, but so you've got to live with success and you've got to answer, you know, the challenges that the schedule is asking of you. And, I mean, it's a gigantic, it's a gigantic. test this week. I don't want to be overly dramatic, but I mean, you go down there and it goes bad at Dallas, and then you go to Arrowhead and this Chiefs team, you and are both raving about, you come back home three and five, and everybody hears throwing their hands up going, man, this is, what are we doing? Oh, yeah, no, it'll be full jump ship panic time.

You know, I talked about this on radio and at the beginning of the podcast today. I actually feel this game a little bit. Like it's, Washington and Dallas have not had a ton of meaningful games over the years, you know, not like when we were, you know, a part of, you know, the glory years as fans. And I kind of feel like there's some juice to this game. If both teams had won last weekend, four and two, three, three and one, or three two and one would have felt even bigger. But I don't know, it's something about 425. It's pretty much the national TV game. Both teams desperately need it.

I think it feels kind of big, but maybe it's just because there have been so few of these games that have meant a lot. Do you feel it at all? I do just because there's a real desperation, I think, for both sides, recognizing that you just don't, you just can't afford to fall too far behind when it feels like there's so many teams in the NFC that are capable. And, you know, the team behind you, the Giants, I mean, I don't know, or have they found something in Dart and Scataboo? I mean, they managed to beat an Eagle team pretty soundly,

but the game before against the Saints who had won a game, they turned it over five straight times to end it. Yet another example of, are you, what are you really? Are you the team that turned it over five consecutive times? Are you the team that beat the reigning champs? Who knows? But given that, given that they don't look hopelessly lost in New York, York, you just, if you're Dallas, you don't want to lose a game to a division rival on your

home field. And if you're watching as we just laid out, you let one slip away at home. So, yeah, there's juice to it. I don't know if it's more something you and I, or Dallas fans would feel than nationally, but it is going to be sitting there at a prime spot in the afternoon. Is there a team other than you, you mentioned the Chiefs, and I feel the same way. Like, I feel like they could be on the verge of becoming a really, really good team. team and maybe the favorite a few weeks from now. You know, I was actually looking at the favorites right now. It's like Buffalo, Detroit, Kansas City, and then there's separation or Green Bay's in there as well.

But do you have a hunch about a team in either conference? Nobody's paying attention to them right now, but I think that they're going to be a part of this thing when we get to January. I don't hear people talk a ton about the Rams. And when I watch them play, I just always think that McGregers. they and Stafford have such a great rapport, and there's a lot of talent on that defense. There's another team. You're a blocked, you're a block kick and a return against Philly away from beating them, and you're a fourth down stop at home against San Francisco away from beating them,

and then you're the unbeaten. And they don't have fans. Like, every home game for them, their stadium gets overtaken by the road team. They don't, there's not a national fan base for the Rams. there's not a big fervent Los Angeles fan base for the Rams, so they just don't get talked about a lot. But I think they're excellent. And my sense is that they're going to be a team that's absolutely there.

In the end, you mentioned Green Bay. When I watched them play, like, they lost to Cleveland in it 13 to 10. And as I'm watching to play Cincinnati the other day, it's 10-0 and Flacco's leading Cincinnati on this, like, 10-minute drive to start the third that made it 10 to 7. And I'm thinking, you know, Green Bay, I buy you. But my God, if you're about to lose to Flacco again, for the second time in a month to a completely flawed offensive team,

then how good are you really? You know what I mean? Again, I feel like this is – I'm saying the same thing about every single team, but I think that's the NFL through six weeks at this moment. Green Bay ceiling, I think, is awfully high, particularly on defense. and I think they're going to get back guys they're going to get Watson back on offense and they've got

it's sort of like by committee with their receiver group but Jacobs is an excellent running back and you know love has gotten better at not turning the football over I mean Green Bay is a team that if they or Los Angeles came out of the NFC I would just shrug and go well sure that doesn't seem weird I mean it's

I mean we're not talking about New Orleans or something like that I mean I'm not pulling some team from the way back of a standings I think both those teams are good. I'm with you on the Rams. I've felt that way about the Rams going back to before the season started because of their young defensive talent, because of Devante Adams joining Puka Nukuwa. And you're right. They're very close to being an undefeated football team. They also were tied with Baltimore at halftime three to three. They shouldn't have beaten the Colts, really.

I mean, Mitchell fumbled that touchdown going in. There's something in the last couple of games about the Rams that I'm a little bit concerned about. I don't know what it is. I actually think Denver is legit. You know, I, that's perfect. That's perfect. This is perfect. Keep going. No, I was going to say that I think that in terms of being a complete football team, that team is unbelievably good defensively, and they do it where it matters most. They get after the quarterback. And then I think offensively, it just works with Peyton and Nixon. Cortland Sutton, I think it's been so underrated for a while, mostly because he's missed games and he's been injured.

But I know it was 13 to 11, and we were both on the Jets, I'm sure you were. And it was the luckiest cover ever because it may have been the worst quarterback game I've ever watched from Justin Fields. But there's something about Denver. I mean, they could easily be 6 and 0 because of, you know, if not for the heroics of Herbert in that Chargers game. and the missed field goal that there was a penalty on against the Colts.

I like Denver. I agree. And yet, the fifth example in this conversation of the team that you say, I believe the good is good, they were 13-11 against an inept football team that at half-time didn't fight. They let the clock run out. They got their quarterback's sack a billion times. And he had negative 10 passing yards.

And they beat that horrific team by two points. and it did not do anything that wowed you other than sack the quarterback that holds the ball forever, I think, nine times. He's impossible to watch. And that's the thing about like, and we probably remember things differently than it was in the past. But like a Montana Niners team back in the day, they'd play a team like that, and they'd beat them, you know, 42 to 10. I just don't think, and we see as many examples of that from teams that are supposed to be good

that go out and absolutely stomp out the opponent that's inferior. And so I like Peyton's play caller. Nick's when he's good, looks good, and the defense is awesome. Fine. Just don't beat an unbeaten, excuse me, a winless team by two points and need to hang on for dear life at the end to do it and have me, expect to have me having a parade for you in the middle of October. You're some great football team.

You might be, but you need to put some distance between your ability to put that on tape. for 60 minutes. I can't believe the Jets came home with that one plus the number. I mean, I'm watching that game and I gave them out and I had them and I'm like, this is a no-chanceor. What's the record, by the way? What's that smell test record? It's pretty good. We're on a roll right now, but you know what happens once you, you know, get on a roll like this. I had over 500 and started peacocking around on. I don't peacock. I never peacocked. I know a correction's coming. I know it's coming. Well, tonight on the segment on the show, I'm just going to say something broken me last week when Auburn and Arizona in consecutive TV windows didn't get there.

And I'm just at the point now, I don't give a shit. I'm just going to say teams, bet them or don't. It doesn't matter to me. All right. Well, let's shift the conversation to college football and the Terps. And we will do that with Scott after these words from a few of our sponsors. This episode's brought you by prize picks. You and I make decisions every day, guys.

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We continue with Scott. We'll talk college football and finish up with the Terps here. And I want to start actually by going back to last week. So Franklin being fired, were you surprised that he was fired then? And what's next to Penn State? Well, the thing that Steve and I talked about on the podcast, was he was there three Saturdays ago for game day. And it's a whiteout.

And you're hosting Oregon and you're number three or whatever you are in the country. And you just made an appearance in the final four. And everything's in front of you. And three weeks later, he's fired. And that's astounding to me. And yet, when you dissect it and where we are here close, you've got a son that went to Penn State. like I know a bunch of Penn State fans, the temperature in the room had reached well over critical mass.

Yeah. There was a hostility towards him that was going to be untenable moving forward, particularly with Alar being injured. They're going to lose more games, and people are already done with it. And so most fans that I've heard acknowledge he took them out of an incredibly dark place, brought them back to the precipice. but they aspire to be something more than that. The thing I would say in cautioning Penn State fans is that's the hardest part. That last step is the thing that's so difficult to get to. And you could point to Georgia and say Mark Rick had us close,

and then Kirby Smart got us over the top. Nick Saban took Alabama back to where Bear Bryant had him. Obviously in a different era, I'd suggest what Nick did is more impressive, given the climate of now. right. So Penn State's not wrong to say we want our version of that, but you might be like Tennessee and stuck in this spot in between forever, or Miami that was convinced that you know, Krista Ball's our guy. Well, maybe he is, maybe this year's your year, but we'll see. That last step's the hardest one. So it's not unreasonable to say, I get it. I understand why

you did it. And it's also not unreasonable to ask, do you really think the next guy's going to have a better record than James Franklin? because if he does, then it means that you're a very rare situation where you manage to actually thread the needle. And it will be more likely than not that you don't. Yeah, did I hear you say this or did I read it somewhere else that maybe what they are hoping for is the threading of the needle is a Mark Ricked Kirby Smart situation. I made that comparison. I don't know that I don't assume I'm the only one that made it. I mean, that's the best example.

And I think in life, when we make decisions, we always look at what's the best outcome and say, we're expecting that or we're hoping for that. But do you entertain the far more likely outcome that's not as good? Right. Because, you know, I don't know who it is. Is it ruled at Nebraska? And then you see people saying is Penn State actually a better job than Nebraska? Well, I think they're all in at Penn State.

And I know they're all in Nebraska. I'm not here to say yes or no. I'm just closer geographically to Penn State, and there's an incredible loyalty out in Lincoln that's amazing. But I think Penn State's just, you know, they're going to give you everything you need. I just don't know that Nebraska situation well enough to make a comparison. Rules of Penn State grad. You know, he met his wife there, as he said. So, I mean, you know, people are going to mention Signetti.

People are going to say, call Nick Saban. I don't know. I just know whoever it is is going to have a very small. very small space above the record Franklin have had to be better at a much larger spot beneath where you could reasonably come up short comparatively. So we'll see. I think you do get to a point, though, where you're willing to take that risk. And I think sometimes the personality of the person involved just gets to the point where you just can't take it anymore. right Kevin when you lose to UCLA you know you lose to Oregon and the air is totally out of the

balloon then you go out west and you play a UCLA team that appears to be broken and you get beaten and then it's Monday and James is sending out the one and oh northwestern northwestern northwestern tweet and the people that have lived there for a decade are like are we are you fucking kidding me right now with this like I just I can't retweet it coach I just can't so it's fascinating from afar. I mean, I think it's a great job. I think it's an incredible fan-based, amazing opportunity for whoever it is. I just think that you better know what you're walking into. You're going to have everybody singing your song because you're new, and then you better very quickly take them to where they want to get, or you've seen that, you've seen that, you know,

a change could come very quickly. It's amazing, though, like three weeks ago, game days ago, and then, And then you're up seven in overtime. Correct. And then you're walking off the field and people are screaming obscenities at you and your family. College fan bases. It's just amazing. And 50 million is a buyout is just amazing too. But I know James going back to his time at Maryland.

And, you know, I know him a long time ago. I probably don't know who he is now as much. I mean, you become, you know, a coach like that on that level. And I mean, you evolve to a much different persona than when you're the O.C. That's the recruiter for Maryland. But I know them for a long time. And I feel for the human that's standing there in the middle of that storm because, you know, you've got to walk out with your kids and people are MF you.

And it's like, that's a lot. And this is where people go. Yeah, and Penn State's got a nice fan base. They're actually kind usually. Is that right? Yeah, well, the people that are standing there by the tunnel are. And, yeah, the money's, that's what the money's for. I get it.

But I can't imagine what that would feel like having to walk into the face of that, that fury. But, you know, it'll be fascinating to watch what comes next. All right. It's actually, you know, similar to the NFL, there's just a lot of teams in play right now. And, of course, with a 12-team playoff, it's, you know, it's easier to fit more into the conversation. But right now, you know, we're at the midway point, who are the two best teams in the country? Who do you expect to meet each other in the national? championship game.

Wow. I'm just going to do the thing. People that do our jobs never do and just say, I don't know. I think Ohio State's defense is hellacious. I watched them go play a pretty capable Illinois team at their place and

mostly limit them to not a lot. I don't know how great that Indiana win at Oregon was other than that impressed me how they weren't daunted by any of it. None of it. Why don't you know how impressive it is?

Are you questioning Oregon? Yeah. Because Oregon's big win was Penn State. Yeah, right. I'm looking at Penn State and going, well, on the very same field, two weeks later, Northwestern beat him. Right. So, you know, it wasn't a whiteout, and maybe Penn State was broken. Listen, I think Indiana is plenty good, and they clearly are fueled by the belief of their head coach.

and that's a scary thing. Like belief and confidence is, it's powerful, and they have it. I just don't know which of those two, I assume it wouldn't be two from the Big Ten that would play. If it's one of those two, I'd lean Ohio State just because they've been more familiar with that stage. They've lived there way more comfortably than Indiana, who's still relatively new to it. But if I had to pick one of those two at the moment, I'd pick Ohio State just because their defense is horrifying. And then I presume, I don't know, I mean, Bama seems to have figured a lot out after that Florida State clunker week one. We'll get a chance to see them against Tennessee this week.

Kind of a big number there, maybe LAMP. Yeah, I'm thinking about it. Awfully large number against Tennessee. It seems kind of big. I think BAM is a team. I like their quarterback a lot. I think Simpson's excellent. The one team that I don't know if you've watched them, Kevin, because you and I have

haven't talked about them. Texas Tech. Have you seen Texas Tech play? Yeah. Yeah, Texas Tech. By the way, when I asked you this question, I was convinced that you were going to give me one team, which we both talked about together as being the team we believe is the best team, that most complete team in America.

And then I was just interested in who you thought, Miami. Oh, right, right, right, right. Yeah, now, I see, I'm blanking. No, Miami, to me, has looked. Yeah, so, okay, so all these people are Friday. for a spot opposite Miami, I guess. I don't know. Yeah, I think Miami's the best and most complete team that I've watched so far. But I thought, I agree.

But I was curious as to who you thought was the second best team, which is why I asked it to you that way. But by the way, Indiana's win, even if Oregon is a little bit down, it doesn't matter. That's impressive to go out into that environment and do it the way they did it. Like, this wasn't 45, 42, which people were projecting. they were, he's, he must be a great coach. No matter what people think of him personally, he must be a great coach, Signetti. Yes, there's no question that that is true.

And I think he's, I think he's fueled by that kind of been a lifer in the shadows and he maybe feels like he shouldn't have been. I mean, he kind of acts that way. You know, it took, took till he was on the other side of 60 to get to the big stage and now he's like, you know, He's kind of cash and checks and, you know, make it up for lost time or whatever it might be. He's excellent.

And his team, I think Aaron Taylor, and I'm paraphrasing, but he said that their front seven was as impressive as anybody that he's seen all year. And I think Miami's front is the one that I would compare everybody against at this point. But I'm not trying to minimize the win if I framed it that way. That's now what I'm trying to do. I think I'm more saying I don't know how good Oregon is. Well, they're not going to lose in the regular season at this point, right? Indiana. Well, I mean, they play Penn State, and Penn State obviously with no Allers is going to be not nearly what they would have, but otherwise. I mean, it would stupid things happen in college football.

I know. So I'm not going to sit here and say that. But it would be, it would be a surprising result if they were to lose in the regular season, yes. You brought up Texas Tech, so I'm guessing that you're a believer. Yeah, just because they've got real talent on defense that was so funny because forever, if you talked about Texas Tech, it was they were going to win the game 5649. And that's mostly what they did. It was just seven-on-seven drill.

And now they've got this oil or natural gas guy. It's got billions, and he just decided to hell with it. I'm going to be the de facto owner of Texas Tech Athletics, and they're spending cash, and they've got dudes, and I watched them play against Kansas last week, and I know Kansas isn't awesome, but Daniels their quarterback is capable hanging a big number on you, and they mostly in the second half just, you know,

squeezed the life out of them, and they've got D-Ns to get to the quarterback, and they've sacked him about nine times. And, you know, just talking about a Texas Tech defense is kind of funny. That said, I'm sure you've noticed Arizona State at home plus points, and you think, yeah, let's see if you can go out to the desert and win. No Leavitt, though, right? I'm sorry?

No, Leavitt. No, Leavitt's trending in the right direction. He is, okay. All right. All right, let's finish up with Maryland. What do you make of the last two weeks, and what do you make of the team? You and I have had a lot of conversations about this team this year. I told you, I think it's the best team Loxley's had.

What do you think? it could be and they've it's heartbreaking is that too strong not for us not really I mean the last two weeks I was out the Washington game

and it's 20 to 3 and they've done a really good job bottling up and then you left I had to come home because I had I had to head home because I'd like you know how that works and maybe it's my fault. Maybe when I left the snake pit, it all fell upon it.

The snake pit. Oh, yeah, it really is. It's a rough place to come play, man. I wish you were. Me too. Me too. I wish Maryland didn't have to earn your buy-in and then that you jump ship the first chance you get.

I wish that didn't happen. But that's how it goes. Had they held on and won, then last week against Nebraska would have been a comprehensive. completely different deal because now that have been full on bandwagon and the place would have been packed and maybe people actually would have stayed for the second half. I don't know. That's a big ask for some reason.

But I'm going to stop bitching about that and just say that the on field, they're really young in some big spots and they're really close to being a six-in-old team. Great teams and teams that are the best coached

win those games. And that's on both young teams figuring it out and on coaching staff to put them in the best position to win those games. So I think it invites a better reflection where you go, all right, where do we fail against Washington? They weren't running it well, but maybe if you've won it some, you know, maybe there's just not enough time for Washington to come back. I don't know.

You know, we could bitch about the targeting penalty on Stewart and the end of the first half. How much does that change the game? I don't know. I just don't want to get caught up in the loser talk and blaming stuff. But those are two games that they lost. And if you want to say, oh, this is the same old Maryland. it's not. Anytime Maryland got people

excited for like a home game against Penn State or Iowa, they got absolutely obliterated. These teams had the lead in the fourth quarter of both. And in some ways, that makes it more painful because you could say they could have won certainly. Perhaps you could say they should have have won. Analytically, they should have been

Washington, for sure. They didn't. So this UCLA game is a massive chance for them to go on the road against a team that suddenly found some solid ground. And if you win it, then you come home against a great Indiana team. And maybe the people, maybe the bandwagon gets going again. But I think this is a long way to go to say, I don't believe that it's the same old Maryland.

And I don't think, I think Locke is right to say that after the Nebraska game. I did too. It took a great railo to drive. The penalties are the same old Maryland. And the way they kind of lose games is the same old Maryland. But I see a different team this year. I think it's better than the Lea teams in terms of offense, defense combined. Well, there's just reason to be optimistic when it comes to the young talent that they've gotten.

And it should be a reason for people to look at locks and say, all right, the identification of the talent, the ability to get that talent, you know, that's his secret sauce. and, you know, ultimately the critics are going to point to, and they'd be right. You know, you can't make the mistakes that can cost you because ultimately that comes down to one man, and that's the head coach, and he'll own that. That we've got to be better at the small things because the small things become the big things. And so they're awful close to being at minimum five and one and maybe six and oh,

and then you're talking about if they beat UCLA, then, Holy crap, if they'd come to Maryland. Because it would. We've done this for many years now. Yeah, but it hasn't been this. I agree.

I feel like you got kicked in the junk by Washington and Nebraska. Better that, better that than you got beat 5110 and you didn't look close. That's the same old Maryland. And that's where. The Iowa and Penn State things, yeah. Right.

It'd be cool if they could go beat UCLA. And then maybe, you know, the people that are on the fence or who could be won back over with that win might be out there for a game against Indiana. Because the thing that's so maddening is if the place is packed in that fourth quarter drive against Washington or against Nebraska, could they have made a difference? I don't know. I don't know. And we'll never know because.

For those that don't know what Scott's talking about, literally the stadium for some, God, unknown reason, just empties. after halftime. And the students decide they want to go do something else. And, you know, a lot of the fans that are there in the first half, I don't know, maybe they just had dinner plans or whatever it was. But you got two late game drives by Washington and Nebraska, and they're doing it. Nebraska was doing it in front of their home fans because that's what took over the stadium. And Washington was doing it, you know, for a spring game, basically.

in terms of the crowd. And it's been a thing forever, but I mean, you know, Locke's right to say we've got to do our part, but when you've done your part and you're up 20 to 3 and people split, it's just, it's just a different world. I get it. Everyone's got to go do some other thing, and they can't be bothered to stay.

But my God, it's three hours out of your life to stay and cheer on a football team that at that point is on the verge of a real breakthrough win against a good football team. And they leave, and it just is so friggin frustrating. And then the bandwagon empties because they managed to lose the lead in same old Maryland. And again, this is, you know, spinning in a circle.

And I get the fans that get sick of being, have fingers pointed at them. And that's also reasonable, too. But I think we all would just want the same thing. Like, you just want to see him when. Yeah, because I feel like we're spiraling in that direction where there's going to be a whole lot of people. That will be really upset, but I want to end it with what I think is also true. And that is, you know, if you're going to go for a fourth down, it's better that it's fourth and two than fourth and seven. So call a time out rather than getting a delay a game penalty or fourth in four instead of fourth and nine.

And Locke has done things like that over and over again. And I get where people get frustrated and say, you know, come on, man, like the easy stuff. Why are we so undisciplined? Why can't we tackle in games in which we need to tackle in? Well, listen, right there is that's entirely true. I'm not sitting here making excuses. I know you're not. That sequence to start the fourth quarter with a third and two

and run a play that gets blown up, and then the inability to snap the ball on a short fourth down that you're going for in a place where you've got the lead and the football, and if you get the first down and you score again, you break their back, but you don't even get to snap off and you don't call the timeout. Well, that's a fundamental failure, and that falls at the feet of locks. And I'm not going to excuse that because it's not being a hater to say, how's that possible? That's a criticism, that's reasonable.

Like, you've got to either snap it or call a time out, recognize that we can't take this penalty or we can't run the play. And that's what happened. So yeah and the problem is is that it's happened a lot over the years. With that said, two things can be true. You know, they lose these games in the same fashion from a, you know, penalty standpoint, delay a game, not getting the right time out at the right time, but this team is also different than some of those other teams that lost that way. Because I do think it is different.

Yeah. I agree. to say, so you can say the thing that's critical while also recognizing that it isn't it isn't part and parcel of the same old thing. It is not. You want to see the little things get cleaned up because, as I said, little things become big things. And that's inability to get that play off and potentially get a first down, ultimately comes back to bite you. And being critical of that is reasonable. But also looking at the fact that these are two good football teams that were on your field, and you let them both in the fourth quarter is totally

different than it's been in the years past. And so it's up to you to decide whether you want to be stingy and say, ah, same old Maryland, I'm not buying it. Or if you want to say, look, man, let's support them. Let's support them because maybe our support might be helpful. A novel concept, I know. Thanks for doing this. Tonight, Scott, post-game on SportsCenter,

and he'll have his winner's segment. Have you picked out your favorite yet? Are you finished with the picks yet? I have a lengthy card, and I've reached a dangerous place where I've, I just don't, I don't care. You don't care, really? Well, your customers care, so it's better to actually, yeah. No, when I say I don't care, I mean, I'm not going to grind about, I'm just going to say here they are. And I, and I feel good about them.

I just, I can't. Give me your number one right now, because we haven't talked. Give me your number one. How's Duke Cravered over Georgia Tech? Yeah, exactly. their quarterback's really good too. Yeah. I've been on the wrong side of Duke a couple of times.

All right. I'll talk to you later. Thanks. Always a pleasure. Yeah, Duke is a one and a half point favorite over undefeated and 12th ranked Georgia Tech on Saturday. So yeah, I believe that Duke will be part of my smell test selections tomorrow. All right. Done for the day.

back tomorrow.