The Kevin Sheehan Show - Washington Letting Allen Seek Trade

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

Kevin and Thom today with the news the Commanders have given Jon Allen and his agent permission to seek a trade. Adam Peters held a press conference at the Indy Combine...the boys discussed that. The Browns reiterated they're not trading Myles Garrett. Meantime, an ESPN NFL Insider said he wouldn't be surprised if the Eagles traded for Garrett, in part, to keep Washington from getting him. The guys also talked Alex Ovechkin in terms of where breaking Gretsky's record would rank on the all-time "DC Sports Story" list.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I'm here. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Windonation. 866 Windonation or WindowNation.com if you need new windows.

So there was some news today. Not the kind of news that was shocking necessarily, but I have to admit, John Allen being given permission to seek a trade. Ben was on with me last week at the end of the week, and he said, I'm leaning in the direction that he's going to either be traded or released. He said it again yesterday on the show. And I kind of thought, and I look at their roster, and I'm like, well, they might need him next year. And so I actually said I wouldn't wager one way or the other, but it wouldn't shock me if he's back next year.

And they work out some sort of restructuring of the deal or a contract extension. But it looks like they are ready to move on from John Allen. I have some thoughts, but what are yours? Well, look, John Allen was a good player while he was here. Wasn't a great player, but he was a good player. Part of the Alabama defensive tackle duo that we thought would anchor a beast of a defensive line, and that never materialized, really. But he was a good player, okay, good locker room guy.

He was a good contributor. I think he made a couple of pro balls. But he's 30, you know, and the last year of his contract with Washington. and they must have the the corresponding move in mind as to what they want to do down the line with the defensive line. Because you're right. I think he still could contribute to them,

but they must have something in mind. I mean, look, don't Herman Newton play the same position? Well, I mean, they're both defensive tackles. I know. I know. Yes, they both play the same position. So right now they have under contract basically two defensive tackles. They have John Payne and they've got Johnny Newton under contract.

Let me just introduce this back into our conversation. I'm benefit of the doubt Kev on all things that Adam Peters does in this offseason. I swear to God, I am. I was benefit of the doubt a year ago. Why wouldn't I be benefit of the doubt again after what they accomplished? I mean, now there's actually legitimate reason to be benefit of the doubt. I'm sure they have a plan, you know? And by the way, it is possible that he seeks a trade.

There are some reports out there. Jonathan Jones is an example from CBS Sports. It reported that teams have reached out more than one team. Multiple teams have reached out about the availability of John Allen. So I do think that there is a trade market. My guess would be, and I feel like we always get these things wrong, but my guess would be it's going to be a conditional third or fourth rounder. You know, it's probably because they're at the end of the third round.

maybe it's a late third rounder or maybe it's based on the snaps he plays next year or what he accomplishes and if it's not enough it moves to a fourth rounder, something like that. But I'm benefited the doubt on what they want to do. I trust that they'll do the right things. I think there's just one thing that I feel strongly about that I hope they feel the same way about. And that is, and they don't have to say this. You know, no one says this. No one says, oh, this is the off-season in which we're going for it big time.

You know, we have a window here with a quarterback who's elite on a rookie contract, and we have all the cap space in the world. We've got ownership completely behind us. We are going to swing big. And I'm not expecting them to say that. I, with their actions, am hoping to see that. By the way, they could try to swing big, and they could be thinking big, but there may not be anything to connect on.

You know, the Browns apparently are saying today, once again reiterating, they're not trading Miles Garrett. You know, I wouldn't consider a trade for Cooper Cup to be a big swing. Debo Samuel, not necessarily a huge swing. you know, it could come in the form of a lot of free agents that they really like, that they think are on the verge of becoming star players that maybe we don't view the same way. So I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I sure hope they are thinking in terms of winning the Super Bowl in 2025.

I would agree. I would agree. This is something that I wrote about in my column right after the season, that there is a window of opportunity. Look, I'm not saying Jane Danes is going anywhere after a rookie contract, but you like to make hey when you have a quarterback under such a cost-friendly contract. I mean, it gives you the option to do so many other things at different positions, and they have the financial freedom to do those things.

So do you think down that there's a chance? Do they have enough assets to maybe move up to get a defensive lineman who's highly valued in the draft? Sure, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I think they have, what do they have, seven or eight picks this year? They could have a guy who might not be the 29th pick in terms of value, but they could move up to maybe 10th or 15th or something like that and have a guy in mind that they think will be available to them there. I'm interested in the possibility that that's not what they're going to wait for,

that they're going to address this in free agency. I think, again, total trust in them, but I would think that defense is the priority. You know, by the way, the other piece of news today is Martin Mayhew retired. But the big news was just the reports. that they are giving John Allen the ability to go out and seek a trade. But there are some defensive tackles. I mean, the guy that played very well in the Super Bowl, Milton Williams in Philadelphia,

they probably can't resign Milton Williams. You know, he is, he played like a guy that, and he's young, I think he's 25 or 26 years old. There's the guy from Dallas, you know, a lot of consonants in his last name, Osa Odig, Huzwa, or whatever, I can't pronounce the last name, but there's a lot of belief in him, and he's obviously a player familiar to Dan Quinn, excuse me. I would think that their plan for defensive tackle for replacing John Allen in the event that they do trade him or release him, you know, it's still possible that if they don't get, you know, a willing trade partner, because he also talked today, Adam Peters did, about doing

right by John Allen. I don't mind hearing that publicly, but I would hope that behind the scenes, they're not turning down a much better deal to do right by any player that's been here in recent years. You know, John Allen, I think, has played very well. I talked about this this morning. John Allen, you know, this is a position in franchise history that doesn't have a lot of greatness. after Dave Butts, it's kind of hard to come up with who number two is. You know, Dyrin Talbert, Daryl Grant, Cornelius, Griffin, you know, there are... But it is clear, but it is clear that Dave Butts is number one by himself. Oh, I 100% believe that, don't you?

Yes, I do. I don't make sure everyone's clear on that. Yeah, there's no doubt that Dave Butts is the greatest inside defensive lineman, defensive tackle that's ever played for the franchise. You know, somebody wrote in, what about Big Al? What about Haynesworth? I actually, in talking about this on the radio, I had, I said, well, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, if it's, you know, it's probably John Allen, maybe Dyrin Talbot. I totally forgot about Daryl Grant. I can't believe I forgot about Daryl Grant. Of course Daryl Grant is so memorable. And so I screwed up by not mentioning him. But Daryl Grant probably wasn't the overall player. John Allen was. John Allen ranks in the top 10 over the last four years for defensive tackles in total tackles 10th, solo tackles fifth, sacks ninth, pressures ninth, pressures

seventh, tackles for loss, TFL's seventh. He's a two-time pro bowler in 2021 and 2022. The defense in 2022 was outstanding. It's the reason they were in the the mix for the playoffs in December, which was a rare place for the organization to be. They were seven and five. Remember before the two giant games in December, he played very well. Duran obviously played very well that season. John Allen was not only a great culture guy. John Allen was a really good player. I had somebody tweet me and say, God, we do this all the time. We overvalue some of these guys. I just gave you the numbers. Okay? I'm not saying that, He was Aaron Donald.

I'm not saying that he's Jalen Carter of the last two years, but he was a two-time pro bowler, and he was a top 10 in the league for the last four seasons defensive tackle. So was Duran Payne statistically. Let me ask you this. Yeah. On the Bama defensive line duo, if all things, all things being equal financially for the franchise,

which one would you rather keep? Oh, right now? Yeah. All things being equal financially. I mean, I've just been this fan of Duran Payne since the moment he came into the league. I mean, he's a guy who played for a contract. Yeah. The answer is John Allen.

Okay, let me just give you the answer. And the reason is John is steady Eddie. John is going to give you, you know, John's going to be, Duran, by the way, is very coachable too. Don't get me wrong. I mean, their defensive ends were more of an issue during that, you know, the Chase Young sweat, the great defensive line that we thought we were going to have for years to come. John Allen is a steadier, a more solid, a consistent contributor and has been.

And by the way, I think played pretty well at times last year, even coming back off the injury, I thought he played well, which, by the way, was amazing that he came back so soon off that injury. Duran Payne's best, though, is better than John Allen's best. Yeah. And always has. I agree with that, but you can't count on them. Yeah.

I thought you were going to ask me, when push comes to shove, John Allen, Duran Payne being drafted back-to-back years in the first round out of Alabama, you know, disappointing, not disappointing, you know, workday, whatever. I would say disappointing. Overall, team results are a big part of that. I would say that very few position groups until this past season would kind of, you know, land in the category of anything other than, you know, average to disappointing. But I was expecting two dominant defensive tackles.

There you go. The defensive line expectations were higher than other positions. Yes. You know, we thought we thought we had a dominant defensive line when Montez Sweat was here, when Chase Young was here, and with these two defensive tackles, and it never materialized. Yeah. They were good. Yeah, they were good.

They were, in fact, you take 20, 22, 2020, they were very good. There's no nickname for that front four. And thank God they didn't self-imposed, you know, self-create one, which I think at one point wasn't it called the Capitol Defense? Wasn't that one era of terrible defensive football? And they dubbed themselves the Capitol Defense before the season started. I think that's before Allen and Payne. I think that goes back.

Oh, no, it was. It was. The Chris Baker Day. Yes. Yeah, I think you just nailed it. I think it was Chris Baker Day, some of those teams. and God, they were horrible in defense. Yeah.

Yeah. So I... So that was all. I just meant to say, if everything being equal financially, you know, making sense for the team, I'd rather have John Allen's day than Durant Payne. But again, you're right, this is, if you don't, if you don't believe in the front, granted, it's one year.

It's a short window. but they were so good in that window, you know, and comparable to what we've lived with over the years here in Washington. I just think you just got to say they must know what they're doing until they prove you otherwise. Let me just mention this,

because I haven't said this, and I'm looking through right now, just a list of the free agents and looking at the detackles kind of ranked, okay? and I mentioned Milton Williams. He is ranked as the highest ranked defensive tackle in free agency. In fact, he's a top five available free agent overall. And then the guy from Dallas, okay, he's the second defensive tackle listed.

If John Allen were a free agent right now, he'd be a highly ranked free agent. Just so we're clear on this. if John Allen were an unrestricted free agent in this class of free agents, he'd be a top 25 free agent overall and top three or four at his position easily. I don't know why I mentioned that, just to give it some perspective of the kind of player that they're losing versus the one they may sign in free agency. The one they may sign in free agency might be younger, and that might be a big difference.

But, you know, it's not going to be a player that would be outrageously higher from a ranking perspective than John Allen. John Allen has the ability at 30 years old to still play at a high level. And he's exactly the kind of guy that they want as a part of their locker room. You know, the... But he is not an Adam Peters guy. is not a Dan Quinn guy. They inherited him. Yeah, well, Terry McLaren wasn't either,

and they're probably going to give him a contract extension. I know. Yeah. I know, but, but, like, there's, I don't think there's any debate right now about Terry McLorn. No. You know. No, that's true.

So, I mean, but my point is that they, they, I mean, particularly Quinn being a defensive coach, he might have a guy or a plan in, that John Allen just, that they could do better than John Allen. No doubt. No doubt. I did think that some of his comments about John Allen when he came back were so over-the-top complimentary and even about his play after he came back and, you know, kind of worked his

way back in, that I was thinking, and that was part of the reason when Ben was so insistent that he leaned in the direction of trade or release, I was like, you know, I can see it. Definitely, it's a $22 million cap savings. If he's on the roster next year, it's a $22 million cap. But to me, I didn't discount the possibility that there could be a contract restructure or even a contract extension because of the way they feel about him and the way everybody kind of feels about him personally.

They have a lot of those guys on the team now, though. You know, it used to be John was basically one of like three or four guys on the team. That's where they did a phenomenal job. Now, a lot of those guys are free agents, so we'll see how many of them they can bring back. But look, they have two players under-contracted defensive tackle. So typically when you tell somebody to go, you know, gauge the market, seek a trade partner, you've committed to move on from him. saying that there isn't a chance that they change their mind or there's not a good enough deal

and he comes back and plays on the final year of his deal or maybe they restructure it somehow or even extent. But it certainly sounds like they're not in the thought process of giving them a contract extension. That's for sure. And so if you're not going to do that, why not get a conditional third or fourth rounder back for a player that's only got one year left on his deal? although that's more of a conversation when you're not expecting to contend for a Super Bowl, typically. You know, if he's better than anything out there or anything on the roster currently, but again, I trust them. I certainly trust them.

And he missed time. You know, the thing about Duran, Duran doesn't miss time. He finally missed some time in the postseason this year. But Duran is there, you know, I mean, I think I looked at this recently. Duran Payne's like barely missed, I think it's three games in his entire career, something like that. And John Allen, it wasn't that he wasn't not dependable. He was dependable.

But, I mean, Duran Payne, regular season-wise, has missed four games, four since he was drafted. And then this year, you know, he had the injury in the Tampa game. and he still ended up playing in the Detroit game, right, but didn't play in the Philly game, I think it was. No, I think that's what it was. I think you're right. I mean, we're still in a situation here where getting back to the beginning of this,

you know, this is not Vinic Serato saying we have a plan, we have a plan. We have a plan, we know what we're doing. Yeah. Yeah. God. What a disaster. I forgot that Duran had two sacks in the playoff win against Tampa. All right.

Anything else on John Allen? We know this. They're going to be looking for detackles in free agency and in the draft, for sure. I mentioned yesterday, I have a feeling that this is kind of sailed over the heads of many. I could be wrong. They only have two wide receivers under contract on their. roster right now. Just two. McAfree and Terry McClure. And McClorn's going to get a contract extension. Now, I think guys like Zakias are perfect candidates to come back and even a Diombi Brown potentially.

But and maybe, yeah. Given the fact that they figured out a great, great ways to use him in the in the Kingsbury offense. Right. All right. So there was news today. from the combine about Miles Garrett and a suggestion from an NFL insider about Miles Garrett. We'll get to those things and a lot more starting right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, if you've lost your hair or you're losing your hair, it doesn't mean you can't find it again. Try him's hair loss solutions. You'll be joining hundreds of thousands who have found their hair again. value many different things about their appearance.

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And on your initial deposit, you'll get extra cash to bet with. MyBooky.ag. promo code. Kevin, DC. So today on sort of what they call GM day, in terms of all of the press conferences dealing with GMs for all 32 teams. The general manager for the Cleveland Browns,

Andrew Barry, was asked multiple times about Miles Garrett, and he said, quote, it's irrelevant to the situation because we don't have any interest in moving Miles, closed quote. So there you go. Now, we've seen many times teams insist on players not being available for trade, and then all of a sudden they're available for trade, and they get traded. You know, the most recent major example of that was Russell Wilson.

They insisted Seattle did that they weren't going to trade Russell Wilson, and the next thing we know is he is headed with lots of, you know, kind of stuff flying around about Russell Wilson, including Washington, who made a strong offer for Russell Wilson, after the 20-22 season. And they traded him to Denver. They ended up moving him to Denver. So I don't know if they're going to trade Miles Garrett or not.

I'm not going to take them at their word. I think if somebody blew them away with an offer, they might. The thing about Cleveland, Tommy, is Andrew Barry actually hasn't done a poor job of putting a team together. That team actually has talent. They just don't have a quarterback. or cap space because of Deshawn Watson and the trade they made for him. But what's interesting about Miles Garrett in particular is you have an unhappy player who wants to be traded. You know, and how much is he willing to push this?

How, for a franchise that's seemingly always engulfed in chaos and dissension, how much do they want to go to war with their best player? Yeah, I mean, the interesting thing is the way he's presented it is I want to go play where I can win. And, you know, I had somebody on from Cleveland on radio maybe two weeks ago, and there's the feeling in Cleveland, like they're not holding it against Miles Garrett. It's similar to like, you know, the way we felt about players that had been here for a while. It's like if they won out, bless their hearts, they should go somewhere where they've got a chance to win because it can't happen here.

But again, Cleveland has an interesting roster. They're actually talented in a lot of areas. And if somehow they hit on the quarterback, you know, at number two in the draft, we'll just say they took Cam Ward or Shadur Sanders or whatever, and he ended up being Jaden Daniels. or they went out and got a veteran quarterback. Maybe Miles Garrett would feel differently if the quarterback situation was handled. That's where he wants to be is somewhere where he can win. And that team was in the postseason in 2023.

Let's not forget that. But they got there with Joe Flacco playing quarterback. I don't know if they're going to trade him or not. Let me just mention this, though, because I thought this was interesting. Jeremy Fowler, you know, longtime ESP. senior, you know, writer. Today on the Greenberg show, Get Up, he said that the Eagles and Miles Garrett makes sense.

We've talked about this before. A lot of people have talked about this. Bill Barnwell said, you know, big, you know, kind of big prediction out there, Miles Garrett ends up in Philadelphia, where Howie Roseman always swings big. And he's hit on swinging big. Sequin Barclay, not a huge swing, but they went and took them from the Giants.

Obviously, the A.J. Brown trade from a few years ago. But Fowler said that the Eagles especially would step in and make a trade for Miles, Garrett, if Washington got close to landing Garrett. So who can make the better offer? Can we come to that conclusion off the top of our heads? I mean, the picks are kind of similar, you know, because Philadelphia is picking last. Washington's picking 29th. Philly would have players that might be more interesting to Cleveland to send back.

You know, I started to talk. It sounds like the Eagles could make the better deal. I don't know that. I mean, the better deal? Well, you know, either team could be, you know, could go the route of overpaying by a lot. Yeah, you could. You could give them a number two for the following year or something like that. Yeah.

Well, it's going to be two first round picks. Okay. It's going to be two first round picks plus. What if, you know, Philly stepped to the trading table and said, you get our first round picks. first round pick the next three years, and you get our second round pick this year. And we're going to throw in, you know, a player. I don't know. We're throwing big dom. I just think it's interesting, though, that people are thinking that way.

Yeah, they don't want Miles Garrett to go to Washington. Yeah. But at the same time... Yeah, we've got to block him from going to that team. Yeah. I don't want him. to end up in Philly. If he ends up in Philly, Philly is already the favorite to win the Super Bowl.

Now they become a much larger favorite to win the Super Bowl. Yeah. You know, I was starting to say in the last segment, and I think I sidetracked myself, but that I don't want, it happens all the time, I don't want, and I don't know that Cleveland should do this either, although Miles Garrett's probably earned. it a lot more than John Allen has. I don't want a team to do right by a player. I don't want them to screw a player if there are deals that are equal, but the most important thing in a trade is what's best for the organization now and in the future. Remember there were some...

I agree. I agree with that. Yeah. I mean, John's a great guy. I agree 100%. He's a great guy. I hope it works out for him. But the most important thing is they get the most back for him, the most advantageous offer that's out there. And that's got to be what Cleveland's thinking. And he's under contract for more years than John is. Again, I think you're underestimating how, I mean, how bad a situation it could get if this guy really wants out. And he thinks the Browns are holding him back. Yeah, I mean, the thing about Cleveland is they actually don't have a terrible roster. They've got good defensive talent.

Without Garrett, they've got some talent. But obviously he's the one that makes it all go. Yeah, I personally would not want to see Miles Garrett in Philadelphia. That would be, you know, I'm not sitting here quivering in my shoes. like, oh, we can't beat them. Because Washington's going to have a chance to really upgrade their roster as well. But, God, that defense with him on it? Do you want to get in an overpaying war with the Eagles?

You know, the Eagles come and offer what is probably an overpay to get him. And the commanders say, well, we're going to really overpay in terms of a trade to get him to keep him from going to Philadelphia as much as wanting to have him play Washington. Could this be that kind of war where they try to one up each other? I don't think so, but it's possible. You know, for those of you out there that are saying, no, no, no, no, no, you don't overpay. That's not how you build a roster. You don't go three first rounders when the actual right price is two first rounders.

You don't get into a bidding war at this point. I think you need to really come to grips. It's hard, but you've got to come to grips with what the situation is now. It's not been this in 30-something years. But they're a Super Bowl contender with what they just did and the amount of dry powder they have in terms of cap space, draft choices, etc. and their weakness last year was defense, and they have to improve defensively in a major way, because the team that they have to, you know, they've got to beat out, is in their division. So in a normal situation, if let's just say Washington and Seattle and the Chargers and the Jets

were the teams in a bidding war for Miles Garrett, you probably, don't overpay. You probably say, okay, we're not giving you what the Jets just decided to give you, you know, three first rounders, two second rounders. We're out. But because Philadelphia is the team to beat, the favorite to go back to the Super Bowl next year, they're in your division, and to host playoff games, you have to pass them in your division. You've got to think about the dual benefit of a trade for Miles Garrett, of overpaying, maybe it's even, you know, you can justify the incremental or the additional expense because, A, you're getting a player that's helping your weak link on defense,

on the team, the defense, and two, you're preventing him from making Philadelphia really difficult to beat. So I think that is a different way to look at, The concept of overpaying for a Miles Garrett type. You don't want him in Philadelphia, people. You really don't. I know he could get hurt, or it might not work, or, you know, defense is variable year to year,

and it won't be as good next year, and they're going to lose, you know, Josh Sweat and Zach Bonn, whatever. Miles Garrett's the best defensive player in the NFL, and Jalen Carter is a top three or four defensive player in the NFL. And every one of their players behind them are really damn good, and they're well coached. Yes. But you know who moved the football against them over and over again? Number five did.

Yes, he did. All right. What else on this? You know, it was funny today. Adam Peters was like some of the quotes I've seen come out of, the combine. He was so captain obvious today. He was so, you know,

there's a famous quote from Casey Stangle when he was coaching managing the Mets. He had this young catcher named Greg Goosen who wasn't very good. And Casey said, and they asked him about what he thought about, Gousson. He said, well, he's 20, and with any luck someday within 10 years, he'll be 30. Yeah. So, I mean, that was kind of like Adam Peters today, where somebody asked him, you know, how does he feel about the combine this year? He says he feels a lot better this year, going into it this year than last year.

Well, of course. Yeah. Yeah, it's the Magic Johnson AI. There's another one. Yeah. Yeah. There was another quote where basically he said that he said what he looks for in a pass rusher, ideally. Okay.

To be really good in this league, I think you need. to have both speed and power. Yeah. You don't get much from this guy, man. Nothing. Absolutely not. No. He's not a comedian.

This isn't an act. No. This is, you know, we carry, we tried to carry it live on radio today, but they had some audio issues, but we ended up getting it at the very end of the show. But they, you know, they wanted us to run it live and promote. the fact that we were running Adam Peters live from the Indy Combine. And look, I mean, it's fine. I mean, my preference would be to take it live,

but with him, there's probably an argument to be made, hey, let's record it and maybe take the one sound bite that we might get out of it, maybe. Yeah. Because, you know, he's not... Quinn goes on and on and on. Adam Peters Quinn can be entertaining

in his own way Adam Peters is very dry Very dry Again he's not up there on a stage Putting on a show No All right I have a question to ask you

Related to Alex Ovechkin And I know you've got some things as well We'll try to get to All of it next After these words From a few of our sponsors So guys if you're like me And you've basically been

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Okay, okay. I'm going to, we're going to sing happy birthday. Are you ready? Sing happy birthday. What are we singing happy birthday? What are we singing happy birthday? birthday for? Well, because it's Shelly's back room, 25th birthday. Really? That's a big birthday. Yes. Sure, I'll sing. Are you ready? You wouldn't sing if you had a gun to your head.

Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear Shelley's, happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. You're always a beautiful. Oh, baby. That's podcast gold right there. That's not podcast gold. Absolutely. Celebrating their 25th anniversary this year, and I bet you I've been there going there for almost all 25 years. I think it had not been open long when I started going there. I know I was there 20 years ago when the Nats had their first.

I used to take Jose Rio there when he was working. the next in 2005. So I know I've been going there at least that long. Did Bob? Bob opened it, right? Bob opened it, right? I'm not sure if he opened it or bought it from somebody, but Bob Matarazzi certainly

deserves all the credit for turning Shelley's into a must-visit place and a great hangout. And, you know, bars are so hard to create a good neighbor. Bar that people can come from for the first time and feel like it's their bar, that's almost impossible to create. But Bob has done that at Shelly's Backroom with great cigars, great food, great drinks, and great clientele. You can find out more. You go to shelley'sbackroom.com and come down and wish Shelly's a happy birthday, 1331 F Street, Northwest in the district.

Yeah, I mean, happy birthday, Bob. Happy birthday, everybody at Shelley's. It's become truly a downtown institution. It's hard to create an institution in 25 years. Absolutely. But they've done it. So I'm going to ask you a question that I asked callers on radio yesterday. Alex Ovechkin is 13 goals away from breaking the Gretzky mark.

The Caps play Calgary tonight, actually. And they're playing him at home, and he had the hat trick against Edmonton on Sunday. And the question was this. When he breaks the mark, which we now can assume that he will, you know, and it'll probably happen this year. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe he goes on a cold streak here, and we've got to wait until next year. But when he does eventually break Gretzky's record, where would it land on a list of for you of the biggest

DC sports stories of all time. When you exclude games like championships, you know, no Super Bowls, no World Series, no Stanley Cup. And we're focusing on not individual sport athletes. Like we're not going to talk about Katie Ledecki

or Sugar Ray Leonard. It's the team sports, the four major team sports. I came up with a top three and I had a bunch of them that would sort of be vying for fourth. But I think Ovechkin breaking this hallowed mark in this sport is going to be a massive deal and would go down pretty high on the list. So I'm curious as to what pops into your mind when it comes to the biggest DC sports stories that are not game-related.

Okay. for me, and I think for a lot of people, and I think it certainly deserves this ranking, the return of baseball to the district is number one to me. That's number two for me, but go ahead. Don't see cities, you don't see cities, lose a baseball franchise, and then 33 years later get one back. You know, that's very rare for something like that to happen. And I would have to put, again, this is kind of a really subjective esoteric kind of list because there's no Al-Sovetskin if A. Poland doesn't create a hockey team for him to play on.

Right. So the creation of the capitals would have to rank ahead of that for me, you know, bringing the NHL to Washington, D.C., and along those lines, as pathetic as the wizards were. I know they won last night. Okay, and it's a new era, the Marcus Smart era, as we'll like to call it. You know, but bringing the basketball team from Baltimore to, you know, to the district, and particularly to downtown, I think, are the three top ones.

I think those things trump individual accomplishments that may fit into your category. Okay, but we're... So I would put those three. We're talking about like the magnitude of the story, you know, in the moment and how it sort of aged, I guess, as well, but certainly in the moment. By the way, for me, the return of baseball after, really it's 34 years. You know, they were, they left in seven, at the end of 71 and they came back in 2005. And they came back in 2005. Number one on the list for me was a consensus number one in my own head, and that is Snyder selling the team in July of 2023 is the biggest sports story in this city's history. And by the way, the one that will be most lasting because this franchise will rebound.

It already has amazingly, you know, the second season after he's gone, They're further than they had been in 33 years and were close to getting to a Super Bowl. So Snyder selling the team is number one for me. Somebody said, well, why wouldn't Snyder buying the team be, you know, even higher than that? Well, because it was a big story. I'm not saying it wasn't. You know, the Cook family, John Kent Cook, not having the ability based on the will that was created by his father, not being able to hold on to the team.

but nobody had any clue what Dan Snyder was going to be. In fact, Paul Tagliaboo lauded the selection, the Snyder ownership at 34 years old. So that's number one on the list. Number two for me is baseball returning in 2005. Number three for me is Bobby Mitchell integrating the Redskins in 1962. Now, I wasn't around for that. But you know how big of a story it was, not just because it was a local story, but it was the final team in the NFL to integrate. And so the NFL was then complete across the board.

Every team in the league was an integrated team. And it was in the nation's capital. Right, in the nation's capital. Everything takes on more symbolism in Washington. Now, there were a lot of things that I considered. I think Ovechkin breaking Gretzky's goal scoring record is going to be the single biggest record of an individual player in our markets history. You know, Charlie Taylor passing Don Maynard on the receptions list because Charlie Taylor was for a period of time, the all-time leading pass reception leader, as Art Monk became when he passed Steve Largent in 1992. those are not records that compare to this one.

This is hockey's record. You know, this is, I had Greg Wyshinsky on the podcast yesterday, the senior writer from ESPN, you know Greg. And he said, I said, is it like comparable to hockey fans like compare it to the home run record? And he said, yeah, that's probably the right comparison because, you know, home runs, goals. This will be the single biggest record that anybody owns in this city. these history. Ovechkin's going to go down as an all-time Mount Rushmore team sport athlete in this town. It's Sammy Ball, Walter Johnson, Alex Ovechkin. Those are the top three. And then we can

debate on who number four is. Is it Daryl Green? Is it John Riggins? Is it Sunny? Etcetera. Is it Wes Unseld, Elvin Hayes? But I had some other ones written down. Like Gibbs returning in 2004, Tommy, that was a massive story. I mean, I don't know that at that moment there was anything that could come close to Joe Gibbs's return. After 11 seasons, you know, 12 really being away. Vince Lombardi being hired to be the head coach here in 1969. That was a massive story. You would remember it, but he was the head coach of the Green Bay Packers, retired,

and was coming out of retirement to coach the Redskins. Five NFL championships on his resume. Incredible. Michael Jordan being brought on as a part owner and team president. We didn't know in the moment it would lead to him playing for the Wizards, but Jordan to D.C. was a massive story. Look, you could make the case that it helped save the MCI Center at the time, because the arena was not doing very well at all, really bad, until Jordan came.

And that showed because there were a lot of people wary of going downtown. Well, what you said about Abe Poland would be on my list somewhere, too. Abe Poland taking the Wizards and the Capitals downtown was so significant to this city. I mean, it started the, you know, the gentrification, no matter how you view that term, but the creation of neighborhoods in D.C. like we had not seen before. This city transformed itself after Abe Poland totally revitalized Chinatown. And then, you know, we had neighborhood after neighborhood being revitalized. I mean, there were neighborhoods like Logan, like, you know, U Street Corridor that had not been, you know, the same since the 68 riots.

And Abe Poland's move to D.C. Okay. Change this city in so many ways. Yeah. Let me ask you this. Yeah. It's not D.C. But at the time, D.C. was very much involved in it when it happened.

The other grade eight, Cal Ripkin, which is the more. significant record. Well, I didn't count. I'm not counting anything Baldwin was. I know you're not counting. Now you're playing my game. I know. No, I'm fine with answering the question, but I think you're more qualified to answer that

question. I'm asking your opinion. I would say the Ripkin record is bigger. I mean, the chase to, the chasing down of Lou Gehrig's consecutive game streak was, first of all, it just lasted longer. You know, the Ovechkin getting close to Gretzky this year is kind of just sort of surprised everybody, because I think everybody was thinking, if it happens, if it happens, it'll happen in 2026. I think it's Ripkin's record, isn't it? I think it is.

You know, I think the Ripkin record may be more significant, but I don't feel necessarily strongly about it because, you know, I mean, Cal's record was, and some people used this to try to diminish the record, I don't. It was not for athletic achievement on the field other than showing up to play. You mean showing up to work and not missing any days? Yes, like that. Not calling in sick. Yeah, I mean, I have total respect for it.

It's such an act, I mean, there's such an astronomical drop between Cal Ripkin and And once you get past Cal Ripkin and Lou Gehrig and everybody else, that it's almost an impossible accomplishment to quantify. So I think the Ripkin one does, but Ovechkin's record is the NHL version of the home run record. I would agree with Greg Wichenski on that. And what makes it even, I think it's going to make it better this year and attract more attention is that the caps are good. Yeah. The Caps may be the best team in the league this year while he's setting this record

and I think that will only make the spotlight brighter Here's a question for you Which death was a bigger sports story, a bigger story in D.C.? Sean Taylor's or Len Biases? Lent Biasis because of how he died The drug is a drug overdose Well I mean Sean Taylor was murdered

I mean. I know that, but what that did, that kicked off like an era of the, you know, just say no, you know, the DARE programs. I don't know if it coincided necessarily, but it became part of the American consciousness after Lenn-Bias died. Yeah, I mean, we had major, major legislation, anti-drug legislation that came out of the death of Lenn-Bias. It was much more impactful, you know, in terms of the aftermath of his death. There is no doubt about it. I also think that just the nature of it, it was so shocking. You know, he had just been drafted the night before,

and then the next morning you're getting reports that Len Bias died. You know, after you saw him getting drafted number two overall and he was going to become a Boston Celtic. whereas with Sean, the actual shooting took place, you know, a few days prior to his passing. I mean, I'm just giving you kind of the comparisons of how it was received in the moment. Both were obviously awful. How about this? Where does the Redskins losing their name fall on this list?

It's up there. You think it's up there? Oh, yeah, it's up there. Well, I don't, then I have no perspective. I don't have the right perspective on it because I don't think it's up there. Yeah, I think in terms of the people with the number one team in town impacted by something and still to this day impacted by it, it's on the list. It's definitely on the list.

Is it in the top three? No, but it's, you know, I'm going to stand by my top three. But then it's like a bunch of these things that we've mentioned that are in the running for like, you know, through six. You know, I mean, I didn't even mention, you know, something that Andy texted me about. It happened, you know, in the DMV, the most famous and most culturally significant NCAA championship game, Texas Western, over Kentucky. Now, that's a game, but it's not about the game itself. It's about that five black players became the first five black players ever to start for, a team in a national championship for a college basketball team and it happened in a national

championship game against Adolf Rup in Kentucky at Cole Fieldhouse. At Cole Fieldhouse. Yeah. Tell you what was a massive story was Joe Gibbs retiring. Nobody saw that coming. Nobody did in 93. Buck broke the story. Buck broke it.

Yeah. Yeah. Buckhand. All right. That's it. Actually, one quick thing before we wrap it up for the day. I wanted to mention the WCAC Championship game last night at American University. I didn't go last night.

I was there Sunday night for the two semi-final games. It was PVI Paul the 6th and Gonzaga in the final. Two nationally ranked teams. Gonzaga's been pretty much in the top 10, even the top five nationally all year. PVI has been in the top 15 pretty much all season long. I mean, this league is insane. The talent on display in this league is unbelievable. I mean, it was filled with four and five-star recruits when I was there the other night.

But the championship game was much more competitive than the two semifinal games. These are two excellent teams. Glenn Farrello does such a great job. So does Steve Turner at Gonzaga. But the reason I bring it up, in addition to congratulating Glenn Farrello and PVI and the players, is to mention Jordan Smith, who apparently had one of the great individual performances in the history of that conference's championship games. He went for 29 points, seven rebounds, three assists, two steals, and one turnover,

playing all 32 minutes for PVI in their four-point win. Tommy, he is a top five, 2026 player. He's only a junior. And there were people last night who are in the know in terms of understanding basketball who said, yeah, just watched an absolute lock lottery pick in 2028, Jordan Smith. He's being recruited by everybody, Duke, Kentucky, Carolina, Maryland, Georgetown. He's going to have his choice, and he's not committed anywhere yet. He's got one more year of high school basketball to go.

but 6-2, just an unbelievable athlete at 200, 2005 pounds. Incredible, relentless motor. Loved watching him last year the couple of times I watched him last year. Just saw him the one time this year the other night against St. John's in their semi-final game. But wow, what a talent. And, yeah, 29-7, 3 assists, two steals, one turnover, handling the ball for 30. minutes. A future lottery pick. 2028,

it would be. I'm sure the Wizards will still be in their deconstruction phase by then, so they'll still be collecting draft picks. Well, they might be able to take them. It's going up in Washington. Maybe they'll take them. All right, do you have anything else? I've got nothing else for you, boss. All right, I'll be back tomorrow, everybody.