The Kevin Sheehan Show - Washington Picks Sonny Styles

Episode Date: April 24, 2026

Kevin opened with his reaction to the Commanders' picking Ohio State LB Sonny Styles with the 7th overall pick in last night's NFL Draft. Steve Suter jumped on with a "film analysis" of Styles. ESPN's Tim Legler joined Kevin to share his thoughts about his favorite team's selection of Sonny Styles as well as talk NBA Playoffs.   For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match   Right now, buy one prescription pair and get 20% off any additional prescription pairs at WarbyParker.com/[Sheehan   Chime is not just smarter banking, it is the most rewarding way to bank. Head to www.Chime.com/SHEEHAN. It only takes a few minutes to sign up.   So if you are looking to make Mother’s Day perfect, or just want to impress your friends and family with an epic meal next time you host, go to www.GOLDBELLY.com and get free shipping and 20% off your first order with promo code sheehan.   Refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to www.Quince.com/SHEEHAN for free shipping and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. With the 7th pick in the 2026 NFL draft. The Washington commanders select Sonny Stiles, linebacker, Ohio State. The commissioner Roger Goodell announcing Washington's pick last night in the first round in front of a record draft crowd of 320,000 in Pittsburgh last night.

It was a good night for the burgundy and gold, and we can say that now, because the colors actually are the old burgundy and gold. But it was a good night for our team, as much as you can feel confident about a pick in an NFL draft, because it's tough to feel totally confident. There are no guarantees with this thing, but I thought the pick last night inspires a lot of confidence. I really do.

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It is a great broadcast team. So I really like the pick. I really do. I said yesterday and recently that Bailey and Bain were my two favorite prospects for Washington, but Bailey was never going to be there at seven. And although Bain was, we all knew that some teams were going to be scared off by his shorter arms. I personally would not have been scared off by his short arms,

but I'm not in an NFL office. I'm not getting all this information from their research and development and analytics teams. But keep an eye on Ruben Bain Jr. next year in Tampa. He fell to 15 and he got selected by the Bucks. I think the fit with Todd Bowles is going to be a good one. And if you saw his reaction after falling to 15, this guy flat out had the best tape of any football player in America last year in college football.

Ruben Bain Jr. was an absolute terror and a game wrecker in college football last year, and I bet you he ends up becoming that in the NFL. Time will tell on that one. What I said yesterday was, if not Bailey or Bain, I would prefer a tradeback. But Adam Peters said there was no opportunity. for a tradeback. He said they looked for one. They were interested in one, but he said when they were on the clock, it was crickets. Nobody interested in trading up to number seven. The chiefs had just traded into the spot before Washington. They traded with Cleveland to get to number six, and they

picked Delane, the corner from LSU. Was it because Washington was going to pick Delane at seven? I'm not completely sure. My guess is that Stiles was ahead of Delane on Washington's board. I don't know that they thought Stiles would make it to seven before the night began. It's possible that the Chiefs thought Washington might take Delane and didn't want to miss out. It's also possible that they thought another team might trade into the number six spot and take Sonny Stiles leaving Delane. to Washington. There was some talk that Dallas might trade into that spot and take either

Stiles or the guy that they ended up taking at 11, Caleb Downs. So maybe Kansas City was just afraid of if Washington's not going to take them, if we don't trade into that spot in Cleveland trades to somebody else, somebody else might take Delane or somebody else might take Stiles, leaving Washington to select Delane. The draft last night was exciting. It really was because it was a huge mystery going into it after number one overall, Mendoza to the Raiders. It's been a long time since I think there's been this much uncertainty.

The Jets took Bailey at two. It was either going to be Bailey or Reese. And then the Cardinals, a lot of talk about them looking to trade back, but they didn't. They stayed at three and they selected Jeremiah Love. That pick makes no sense to me. None. The Cardinals need so much help. And to take a running back that high when they just signed, just signed Tyler Algier in the offseason and re-uped with James Connor, I don't know, that didn't make much sense to me, but they took Jeremiah Love at number three. That thing, by the way, has Ashton Genty written all over it.

Gentie being picked super high last year by the Raiders, but went to a bad team without a great offensive line. And that could be the fate for Jeremiah Love early in his career. We'll see. I like Jeremiah Love as a prospect. I do. I just didn't love Jeremiah Love, no pun intended, or maybe pun intended. I just didn't like him that high in the draft. And if I were Arizona, I would have never taken love at three.

they've got to build out a roster before they pick a running back who may have to struggle behind a bad offensive line and a team right now that's probably going to start Jacoby Brissette at quarterback. The Titans were the first real surprise of the night. They went Carnell Tate at number four, the Ohio Statewide receiver. There was some belief that Stiles or an offensive lineman would go to Tennessee at four. But they took Tate. I like Tate a lot. He was my top wide receiver among those that were projected to go in the first round. But no doubt, he went a bit higher than I think most thought. Peter said in his press conference last night that he thought four was the highest for Tate. Nine was the floor for Tate. I wonder, you know, with him saying what the floor was, if they didn't really have plans to take Tate. had he dropped to seven. I would have been interested to see if Stiles love, if they were gone, if Delane was gone, and Tate were there and they couldn't trade back, would they have taken Tate?

I don't know what they would have done there. He also said about Sonny Stiles that they really did not nail him down as, you know, the top prospect for them if he were available at seven until earlier this week. you know, lots of close calls on player evaluation in this draft. No doubt about it. I mean, it was a draft that kind of presented to most as a draft with the least amount of true elite prospects in recent years. So tough calls sort of separating a lot of these players. I would imagine that a lot of teams preferred to trade back. Cleveland ended up trading back from six to nine with the chiefs, you know, picked up some draft choice. and still got the offensive lineman that they wanted.

I don't know what Washington would have done at 7 had Stiles not been there and a tradeback not been available. I would have guessed Tate or Delane, but if Delane were gone, I don't know. Dan Quinn has to love Stiles. They love them. You can tell they really like the player. Everybody on the defensive side of the ball has to feel good about Sunny Stiles. liked Bailey and Bain, but I said if they can't trade back, I would be more than okay with Stiles, Tate, or Delane, and even Downs. And Stiles was next in line for me after Bailey and

Bain. Again, they might regret not taking Bain, but time will tell on that one. Stiles has, for many, in talking about him, he has, you know, one of those, as they say, high floors. Like he is a really, really safe pick. He is a plug and play at linebacker, offball linebacker for a long time to come. Does he turn into a superstar or is he just, you know, a solid starting player? That seems to be his floor. You know, this does not have Jamin Davis written all over it. Jamon Davis, first of all, ended up being asked to play out of position.

Secondly, let's be honest here. Jamon Davis was not thought to be the prospect that Stiles is. And from a football IQ standpoint, there was a difference. There is a difference between what Jamie Davis was as a young player and what Sonny Stiles is coming into the league. Positional value this year just wasn't an issue. There were apparently so few blue chip prospects that running back, you know, usually considered to be low on the positional value chart.

Linebacker, safeties, it just didn't matter this year. We saw Love taken at three running back, Stiles linebacker taking it's taken at seven, and Caleb Downs, a safety taken at 11. Look, I like styles. I like them a lot for multiple reasons. And my guess is that my one pushback, and it's a very slight pushback, is probably something that a lot of you will disagree with, which is fine. But number one is this.

He is according to everybody, and you saw it at Ohio State. He is super high IQ for the position. He's going to replace Bobby Wagner as the green dot, you know, the communication guy on the field for the defensive coordinator. He's smart. He's a great culture guy. He was at Ohio State. The Block O recipient, that is a prestigious honor that's voted on by coaches and players and goes to one player every year before the season begins.

It represents the player that most exemplifies leadership, toughness, character. He got to wear the jersey number zero this year as the Block O recipient. He wore number six in 2024. but he's elite when it comes to football intelligence and sort of locker room teammate. That's something I really like. I love his versatility. He can play the run. He can cover.

He can really get after the quarterback. I think that may be the one part of his game that has some real upside to come. Like as a blitzer, Adam Peters said that in his press conference last night. he really thinks that he's got a shot to be an outstanding blitzer as a pass rusher. He can really run. I'll get to his athleticism in a moment, but I think he can drop into any kind of coverage. You know, third and ten, you know, he can be in coverage. Third and eight, he can be an effective blitzer.

I think he can cover in man. He can cover in zone. You know, he was a safety. I think most of you know that and then turned into a linebacker this past season. So he's got a lot of those skills that a safety or an in-the-box safety has. But now he's grown into a linebacker body. It's 6-5-244. I love the fact that he's got just a high motor and he's physical.

He was not a great tackler in 2024 this past year, however, as he's been growing physically. Like he's physically maturing as he's going through. Ohio State. He's growing in size. I had Bobby Carpenter, who was a long-time NFL linebacker and played linebacker at Ohio State. I had him on the radio show two weeks ago, and then I played it back today. And I had him on to talk about the four Ohio State players that were likely going to go in the top 10. Four went in the top 11 last night. But I asked him, you know, if you had to start a franchise with one of these four, who would it be? And he said, it's Stiles. He loved Sunny Stiles, has known him since he

was a kid, and he talked about this physical, you know, maturation process from 6-1-185 to now, you know, 6-5 and 244. And he said he knew when he was playing safety, he wasn't going to be a safety for long. But, you know, he is growing into this monster physically. and at the same time learning the position of linebacker. So two years ago, not a great tackler. Last year, an outstanding tackler. Some of the numbers on it reflected that he didn't miss more than two tackles for the entire season. I think part of the excitement over Stiles is that he's just 21 years old.

He's still learning the position of linebacker while still growing into a physical freak. He plays smart and he plays hard. And he's really, really versatile and really, really, you know, sharp. And then there is the athletic freak part. So I think most of you know now at this point, he tested off the charts at Indy. He had an unbelievable indie combine, one of the highest RAS scores, relative athletic scores, for an offball linebacker ever. And his stock, by the way, which was definitely first round in top half of the first round,

he grew into a given for a top 10 pick after the combine. He wasn't necessarily a consensus top 10 pick before the combine. Now, for me, and this is the slightest of pushbacks, it's really not even criticism. But I said this either on yesterday's show or the last time we talked about Sunny, styles at length. If you watched him play rather than just watched him at the Indy Combine,

this insane athleticism, this 43 and a half inch vertical leap, the 4-4-640, the ridiculous broad, the ridiculous shuttle, the whole thing. You know, you don't think of him, if you didn't

know that and you didn't see the indie scores, and let's just say he didn't show up at Indy, you would say watching him at Ohio State that he's this insanely freakish athlete. You wouldn't say that about him. You'd say he's athletic. He can go sideline to sideline. He's got a really good speed. But I've said this before about Sean Taylor and a few other players here and there over the years. like the real insanely athletic defensive players at times are blurs on the field.

Like Sean Taylor was a blur. You'd like be watching the game and from off screen all the sudden you would see this blur and then you would see the ball carrier being blown up and you were like, what was that? That was Sean Taylor. And that's not what you see when you watched Sunny Stiles. You didn't see a blur. You didn't see insane athleticism.

He's athletic. He's really athletic. He's 6'5. He's long. He's quick. He's fast. Side line to sideline. He'll run somebody down.

He'll hit somebody. But the combine numbers kind of blew out of proportion. I think it's my personal opinion. I think, you know, his true level of field athleticism, which is very athletic, but not insanely athletic. I actually said that to Ben today, standing on radio. And Ben told me that in talking to general managers in recent weeks, that he got back from some people when talking about styles, that the Indy Combine did kind of exaggerate his

overall athletic profile. And that's what I thought. And that's what I think. Now, it doesn't mean that as he continues to grow at 21 years old, he won't grow into an insane athlete. I'm just saying that go watch his highlight reel at Ohio State. You don't see a blur. You don't see like this tremendous, like speed and burst and blowing people up.

You see really high-end speed. You see a guy that definitely, with his motor too, and his instincts, sideline to sideline, he's got that capability, and he's long-armed, and he's 6-5 now, and 244. I mean, he is really athletic. But that would be my one thing. I saw, you know, last night after the pick, I saw a lot of people sort of dropping in, you know, sharing the indie combine numbers and talking about his numbers and Leo Chenal's numbers, the player they signed in free agency.

I'll tell you what, on the field, and look, Leo Chenal's a veteran player. Leo Chanel has more of those blur plays where it's like, whoa, what was that? You know, quick, short bursts into a pass coverage or into a tackle than Sunny Stiles did at Ohio State. That's what I would say. But I'm not diminishing his overall incredible speed and athleticism. I just don't see it as like off the charts all time. insanely athletic.

And you saw a lot of that. If you didn't watch college football, you could tell last night with some of the people who were just talking specifically about his insane combine numbers and that they've got a guy that is more athletic than receivers in this league. Sure, I mean,

in some measurements, that's true. How he played on the field was very athletic, not insanely athletic. I will say this, though, man, about just the job Adam Peter. and the front office. The job they've done here over the last six weeks. They took a defense that was on paper last year, healthy or unhealthy, not very good,

older and certainly not that fast. And in six weeks, they have turned this defense not only into a super young defense, but a super fast and athletic defense. And that's exciting how it comes. together schematically, you know, how it's coached, how the players are developed, how they fit with one another, who the hell knows? Nobody knows for sure until they start playing games. But we talked about when the season ended, defense, defense, defense. And they've added like five to six new starters and seven to eight new contributors. And they are all, for the most part,

fast and young. But really, like, chanol, Owey, Chasin, Stiles now, Omenahue's athletic, Cross is athletic, Robertson can run,

Settle isn't, you know, the athletic freak, but man, they have added, and then, you know, you've got some guys coming back, Louvoo's athletic, you know? Jordan McGee can really run. I'll tell you the guy that, you know,

tested off the charts last year, and when you watched him play it, UCLA, you're like, this guy has some good feel for the position. Maybe Cain Madrano as a second year player fits into the Durante Jones defense better than he did, you know, the Joe Whit Jr. Defense. This is a defense that just on paper in six weeks has improved so much, and you have to give them credit. Again, no guarantees for anything, and health is everything. We know that from last year. But sometimes, you know, like at the end of a season, we as fans will say, well, my God, the emphasis has to be here. And sometimes the teams are like, actually, you know what, we don't

necessarily agree. We think if we get back and we're healthy and we change the scheme a little bit, we're good. But it's very clear that, you know, kind of our thought on what they needed to focus on and their thought were in alignment. Adam Peters focused on. Defense, defense, defense. And in the draft, added not only a really good player and a really versatile player and a player that fits with this culture and a player that fits from an IQ standpoint, but man, fills a need. You know, I will talk to Souter about, you know, where he plays.

Is he better as a true middle linebacker? Is he better in a 3-4? Yeah, I like the player. I like the pick a lot. definitely when they were on the clock was thinking, go ahead, take Ruben Bain Jr. Take them to hell with these short arms. Because just nobody, nobody popped last year watching games like Ruben Bain Jr. Or Bailey, those were the two.

And Mendoza, I thought Mendoza was really, really impressive. But the fact that, you know, their analytics, their research, and look, there was the issue of him driving a car that crashed and killed somebody. So there's a lot of information, obviously, we don't have. But, you know, the other players that they could take if they stuck and picked at 7, the top of that list for me after Bailey and Bain was Stiles. So I really like the pick. And I'm looking forward to seeing what they're going to look like on defense next year.

Because you want to help the offense in Jaden Daniels. Yeah, there's a receiver to come. I'm sure tonight or tomorrow and probably Brandon Iyuk at some point over the summer. But how about let's get stops? Let's give the offense field position. Let's give the offense the ball and plus field position. Let's score occasionally. But let's force some punts this year.

And talent-wise, they have a completely different team that'll take the field next September. That's exciting. And they're not done. You know, they could still use a corner. They could use maybe a safety. This draft is deep at safety. I think tonight, you know, at 71 overall, you know, certainly a wide receiver is a possibility. If that center run starts, maybe a center.

But I'm looking forward to seeing what they do tonight and tomorrow because they still have needs, many of them. And the needs now are more concentrated offensively at wide receiver, you know, for sure. So they could still Another corner Another safety Another pass rusher for sure Because remember

Always the only guy under contract You know beyond next year In terms of the guys they signed to be pure pass rushers Omenahue chase on Et cetera But man they're going to use Chenal They're going to use Louvre They're going to use styles

As pass rushers I think they've got so much versatility In their linebacking core now And no I don't think Bobby Wagner is going to come back and mentor Sunny Stiles. Some of you called in and mentioned that. I've seen some of you tweet that to me. Do I think Bobby Wagner's back?

No. And I think the number one reason for that is Bobby Wagner is going to want to go somewhere where he can play every snap again and where he can win and end up with another big time productive year. He was very productive here. He just can't run anymore. He can't be in coverage. But as a tackler, he's still elite. But if they had not drafted Stiles, if they had drafted Tate or, you know, Love or, you know, Bain or somebody like that, I would have welcomed Bobby back, but it's not a fit for him.

He's not going to play as much as he might in another situation. And maybe he doesn't want to play. You know, that's a possibility as well. All right. Let's get to Steve Souter and think, and we'll find out what Steve thinks about Sunny Stod. That's next after these words from a few of our sponsors. Okay, guys, I'm about to tell you about the most incredible, unforgettable gift you can get mom this Mother's Day. Have you heard of Gold Belly?

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This segment of the show brought you by Window Nation just a few days left in the month. And that means just a few days left to take advantage of Window Nations. The more you buy, the more you save sale. The more you buy, you could save up to 50% off your purchase. You could be paying half price for your window purchase with Window Nation. You have to act now. You've got to schedule that free in-home estimate by April 30th. The other part of the deal is 0% interest.

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right now. And they've got plenty of product, over 1,500 window styles to choose from. It starts with an in-home estimate. They'll come out in an hour or less. They'll tell you which windows need to be replaced and which ones don't. And then you make the call after that. No pressure, no obligation. It's your call. They'll leave you with a quote. To get that quote, to get that in-home estimate, which is, again, free, no risk. 86690 Nation or windownation.com. Please mention my name. They'll take really good care of you. All right. Joining me right now is Steve Souter. Steve was doing film breakdown for us all season long. If this is the first time, you're hearing Steve. Steve was one of the greatest punt returners in the history of college football

still holds a lot of punt return records, ACC records, NCAA records, and he calls games with Johnny Holiday on the Maryland football radio network. And he is here with me today to talk about Sunny Stiles. So you've looked at the film, you've broken it down. By the way, before we get to styles real quickly. Did you, I know that you weren't following the draft in a real meaningful way, but in watching last night, did you have a player that you hoped Washington got or you thought Washington fans should hope to get? You know what?

I kind of did. And, you know, our interactions all season, last season, and doing the podcast, it has brought me back a little bit to paying attention. I'm not going to say, I'm not going to call myself a commander's fan again yet. but I am paying attention because it makes sense for me to pay attention. So with saying that, I was actually rooting for Sonny to be there at 7 for the commanders. And I say that because why receivers are hit and miss, corners are hit and miss. And I thought Sonny was maybe the only guy in the draft, with exception to Caleb down,

that were not hit or miss. I think those two players were plug-in-play, starters day one, And then defensively, the commanders need a lot of help. So I was hoping that Sonny was there for him because you don't even have to think about it. And when the Chiefs made that move, the jump in front of them to take the corner, I was actually not, I wouldn't say excited, but I was almost relieved in a sense where Peter doesn't have to make a gamble here and go with the corner that may be good, may not be good. You take Sunny, it's a no-brainer, and the anxiety's not even there.

So I think it worked out great for Washington. I think they hit a home run with Sunny. And I think it was a good night for him. You know, real quickly, because you and I had exchanged texts on this, I was a Carnell Tate fan. And not that I thought that at 7 that was like a slam dunk if he was there. My favorite players in the draft were Bailey and Bain. And I liked Stiles a lot.

But I really liked Bailey and I really like Ruben Bain, too. I think, by the way, he's going to. to wreck the league after he dropped to 16 or 15. He did not look happy. But you told me that you were not impressed with Tate after spending a little bit of time looking at him. Why? So I watched the just there's a YouTube channel called Justice Tate and it has every target of the top receivers that were in the draft. So I watch every target. Now, I'm saying Target, 12 times because it's every target. I don't get to see every play.

I don't get to watch every rep, but I got to see every target. So I'm watching the entire film of tapes. I watched every target that he was thrown at this season or this past season. And the only route that he got a target in was that draft day highlight in the Texas game where he double catches that ball on the end of the end of that was press coverage. Every other target for the entire tape for his whole season. was in off coverage. So that just concerned me.

Why is he not getting any targets in press coverage? Can he not get off the jam? Does he not have the side-to-side agility to get off press? And he's not available for the QB. So it's just really alarming for me. And it was a red flag. This guy has no, well, I see, I don't even know. Does he have shakeability at the line of scrimmage

where you can get off in man-to-man coverage and be a viable option for the quarterback? It's not on tape. He didn't get, the only one was that draft day highlight. in Texas where he actually showed probably his worst ball skills. He didn't need to jump for that ball on the end zone. He should have just

just made his foot, went up with his hands. But he's a really good hands catcher. He's probably got the best natural hands and wanting to catch the ball with his hands in the draft. I'll give him that. But there's just too much, too many unknowns, and I think it was too risky for the commanders of taking him at seven. My guy's Boston, if I'm looking at receivers, I think Boston, I would rate higher than

Kate. I watch this film. I'd probably putting Lemon second for me, a receiver is coming out and then Tyson at third. But those guys have some, you know, they're not without flaws either. That's why I think it really worked out for the commanders where you got Sunny Stiles. I don't think there is any gamble in taking him and you got a locked-in starter for the next foreseeable future for as long as his contractor there. We're going to get to the Stiles film breakdown in a moment. But real quickly, so You know, you got to see Boston up close because Washington came to College Park, and, you know, the Terps at that time were undefeated.

They did not win another game after they led that game 20 to nothing. But I like Boston, too, and I'm a little bit surprised that he did not get picked in the first round. He's going to be, I think, an early pick tonight in the second round. But he's a big dude. Like, you know, I had a guy on the other day that Compton, the Cortland Sutton, you know, the Denver receiver. I think there's some Mike Evans. I'm not going to compare anybody to Mike Evans, but I mean in terms of stylistically, he's a true outside receiver. It'd be interesting to see who lands on.

Washington does not have a second round pick, so they're not going to. Yeah, I was going to text you last night saying you've got to trade back up and get Boston, because I think he's going to be the steal or wire receiver. I'm more of a Michael Pittman Jr. comp. Okay, and not bad. That's a good comp, too. Yeah. Yeah, great comp.

Yeah, get 60 guys a year. year and have a, you know, be flirting with a thousand yards. He sees it. And he's got a little shake to him. He also returned kicks for Washington. So he's got yak ability. I just, you know, I don't want to go on. No, you're right.

They're not going to get. But I think, I think when it's all said and done, he might be the guy that comes out of this draft as the best receiver pickup. You know, the pitman comp, the size is very similar. And just a reminder to everybody out there, you know, Pierce, who was the top wide receiver in free agency. ended up staying with Indianapolis, and Pittman Jr. went to Pittsburgh, and I think Pittsburgh got themselves a really good receiver. In some ways, I thought Pittman Jr. was as good as

Alec Pierce in Indy. All right, Sunny Stiles, you really were hoping to see him there at seven. Stiles and downs, you thought were the two players that are totally plug and play in this draft. So tell us what you got on Sunny Stiles. Yeah, I think Sunny just really, I'm a big tweener guy. I really like tweeners where they don't work out in a single position and then they migrate to another one where that may be the ideal size and traditional, what you would call that type of position doesn't work out. I'm a big fan of this guy. I see work out a lot. And so with Sunny Styles coming from a safety, hey, maybe I'm not as fast as or as quick as I should be to be a safety or my body.

I'm growing into my body, and I can't stop putting on muscle as we hit the weight room. Now I'm 220. Now I'm 2.40. What are we going to do here? Hey, well, you're a tweener. Let's move the linebacker. And he just shows me a lot of attributes that I think are very versatile at the linebacker position, and I think he's going to be just a really good player.

And maybe, you know, I don't want to say he's going to be a hunter tackle guy, but he's going to he's going to lead the defense, I think, in tackles, because he's just going to be everywhere and you don't have to hide him and you can play on third down. You can play in coverage because you were a safety. You see that and in his highlights that I've watched. He's very comfortable in space with hook zone curls, flat. He's going to be able to see, there's hidden things within linebacker's position. And every position is complementary, right?

You go D-line to linebacker to secondary. They all complement each other. But what you're not going to see on the stat sheet is Sonny Stiles, making a tackle on second and eight, and now it's third and seven, because he made the tackle for one-yard gain, and now it's not third and three. So you're putting yourself in obvious passing situations so defensive coroners can be more prepared. All that stuff just like compounds and builds on each other.

You're not going to see in the statutes, but he's going to be helping that aspect of Washington's defense. I think he's sideline to sideline. I think he's got good instincts. I will say this. maybe not, I don't want to call it a red flag, but I want to see him take on more lead zone guards, because he's going to have to do that. If he's going to play inside, and I think he can play everywhere, he started at Will at Ohio State, and I think that's probably, I mean, he's kind of a tweeter

there, too. Like, I don't think he's essentially, he's not a Bobby Wagner, I'm a middle linebacker, that's all I do, because he can do more things. But he's not to learn how to take on a 320-pound guard in the NFL, in an A-gap, and not try to always dodge the block, if that makes sense. You have to, at some time, take on that 320 guard in A-gap because you have other players responsible for these sides next to you, and you can't avoid the block because essentially you might as well just got pancakes if you avoid the block and you don't make the play,

you just open up the hole. So I would like to see more of that. his ability to take on those lead blocks and then shed them or not shed them, but at least you got at least stone them at the point of attack where they don't have a two-way go. So that would be my only red flag, but he's going to make so many plays out in space and going sideline to sideline, and he's going to have instincts to shoot run gaps on tosses and outside zones that's going to make up for it.

And he's going to learn that because they're going to go on. There's going to be, I can almost guarantee, there's going to be a couple times he tries to avoid a block and it causes a problem versus taking it on let somebody else make the tackle and they're going to correct it on film and they're going to say sunny man i know you're trying to make a play here but you got to take on this block and let somebody else make the play because instead of a four-yard game now it's a 14-yard game do you see do you see more safety instincts or linebacker instincts with him i would say They grew on me, actually.

I think he's still learning the position. I think he was more safety mindset as he started. If you watch the Texas film, you're seeing more of a safety mindset in the box and you can't have that. Right. But then towards the end of the season, Miami, Indiana, those games at the end of the year, you could see he was a different player just in one season. So I think he's still learning and growing into being a linebacker. and it's a mentality thing.

It's not skill-wise. It's just him learning what a linebacker needs to do in each situation and not what a safety would do in each situation. So I think he's learning that. And from everything I've read and heard, I'm sure you have more intel on him than I do, but strong character guy wants to be fun. The whole thing.

Yeah. So it's only going to get better. It's only going to get better for him. Steve, what is the difference between a safety coming down and playing in the box and a linebacker who just starts in the box? Well, I think it goes back to taking on blocks like I was talking about earlier. A safety, I don't want to say nine times out of ten, but I'll say six times out of ten, you're not accounted for in the blocking scheme. so I think the safety gets more freedom when he comes down in the box to gamble he can use his instincts and try to avoid blocks to try to make a play and then

and then it's a highlight you're like oh my gosh look and I'll use Caleb Downs for example because we're talking safety's in Ohio State oh look Caleb Down just made this great play in the box and he came down and he's a run support guy and he's impacting the game that way but offensively you can't really account for safety coming down in the box because NFL defenses are disguising it. So you're going to have a two shell. They're going to be showing too deep.

You're not accounting for them. They're going to roll to it late because they don't want you to prepare for it. And now the safety is kind of unaccounted for. Where at linebacker, you are accounted for in every run game. So he needs to know he's accounted for. Yeah, he needs to be. And going back to sometimes you can't be the one making a tackle. You have to take on the block to allow somebody else to make a tackle.

So those are those sacrifice plays. Then you become a team guy. Like, you know, Sonny is the best. He's a team guy. We love him in the locker room because he's doing all the right things and he's allowing other players to make plays. Not saying he's not going to make plays because he is. But that would be the difference between the two positions.

Yeah, one of the things I'm kind of hearing from you, and I'm going to use two names in this conversation, part of the conversation. There's been a lot of comps of Sonny Stiles to Fred Warner in San Francisco. Francisco and Adam Peters was in San Francisco and Fred Warner is a special player at that position. But, you know, Kyle Hamilton is a special player too as an in-the-box safety. Really is the safety anywhere on the field. And I'm wondering if like you kind of see Sunny Stiles right now, he's heavier than Kyle Hamilton. I mean, he's grown into this body. He was 215, 215, 240 or whatever it is.

But if that he's going to play more like Kyle Hamilton, but grow into becoming more like Fred Warner. I mean, those are two, you know, elite examples. But that's what I was thinking about in listening to you is he's got, you know, he's a bit of Kyle Hamilton maybe today playing linebacker, not safety, but in the box. And he'll eventually, you know, hopefully grow into Fred Warner. Yeah, that would be best case scenario for Washington for sure. But do you know what I'm saying? Maybe stylistically, he's closer to Kyle Hamilton right now as a player. Yeah, I would guess.

Sure, I'll go with that. I'll get on board with that. He would, I don't want to say scare me or maybe nervous, but I don't want him 101 covering a slot receiver in man coverage, not right away anyway. You're going to have to prove to me you can do that. I wouldn't have an issue with Kyle doing that right now at any point. I don't see Sonny getting on the line of scrimmage and jamming

or even attempting to try to jam receivers. So that type of scenario would not or should not happen. You would try to avoid that in a defensive scheme where he is in charge of a fly receiver. I think he's going to have, so where he's going to dominate and coverage is man covers on most of the running backs in the league. I'll say most, right? Bejohn probably still give him fits like anybody would or Gibbs to,

but I think he's going to have the edge in past coverage on anybody most running backs in the NFL when he's locked up man coverage and that you could not say last year with Wagner. No.

It was a disadvantage. So you're already on third down in a better position at linebacker right away with Sunny. The X factor is in the run game and straight at him. I have no concerns with runs going away or cutback runs, things of that nature where he can use that bugability inside, or excuse me, be and avoid blocks in those situations. It's the ones that are going to be coming right at him.

I would like to watch early on. Yeah, so that is the one concern. you have, and everything else is positive. Now, you've talked about him in man coverage. Part of me just kind of envisions with his athleticism and quickness. He's going to be really good in zone coverage, too, don't you think? Oh, absolutely. Those are most of his highlights in college.

Yeah. Him in zone coverage, in space, and not necessarily, I'm not saying he's making plays, but he's not a liability. That's the best way to put it. And that's why I think it's such a good pick because he's so consistent. He's not going to blow coverage. If he's responsible for a hook down to a flat, he's going to play the hook down to the flat. And he's going to take away the 10-yard hook, and then he's going to be able to close on the swing pass

that the quarterback dumps off because he had to go to his third ring because nobody's open. And then he's going to close on that, and it's going to be a three-yard gain versus a 12-yard first down because Wagner couldn't get over there or Wagner got over there and got shook or any lineback for that example. I think he's comfortable in space. And those things, again, that's not a stat thing. You're not going to see it.

But I'm going to see it while I'm watching film. I'm like, damn, Sonny just took away the hook. And then he broke on the flat swing and it's only a three-yard game, and it's third and eight. And those types of things are just going to be invaluable, and they're going to build and build. and he's going to, I mean, I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I mean, it could be a pro-bo type linebacker.

Is he going to be a good pass rusher? Because I think the Durante Jones defense is a Brian Flores defense, and people are coming from everywhere. And you never know where there, you know, you saw what it was with, you know, eight guys on the line of scrimmage pre-snap, and nobody knows what's going on. Could, will he be a good pass rusher?

Well, I think you're answering your own question. because of the scheme. He's going to be good because you're not going to know who's coming. And that puts the offense on their heels. That puts linemen on their heels. And so it's going to give him an advantage right off the bat. So if he has a weakness as a pass rusher, he's going to have the benefit of having some schematic advantages.

And then you can learn to become better at it. If that's a weakness of his, we don't see much of that from Ohio State. do it much. But I, with the athletic ability and the speed and his size that is, I think, an advantage when you're past Russian sometimes. It's speed versus power. I don't see how that can't be an advantage for him. But I think it's, again, goes to the home run that Washington hit because he doesn't have to do that all the time, but he could do that. And then you can do some trick rate. You could have Louvo on the line of scrimmage. You could have him off the ball

and then you have Sunny come on the blitz. You drop blue hoop back into the hook curl. You can, and you can mix and match that. And it's just, I think it's a really good situation for them to be in. If I'm a defensive coordinator, everybody kept talking about the versatility and things of that nature with the Giants. Remember when the Giants picked, and they're like, oh, my God, they got Reese,

and they got all these guys and Carter and all this. this defensive coordinator is looking at his job. I think Washington guys in the same boat. Now, he doesn't have the back-end support in the secondary, but I think he's got to be hype about the options that he has now at the linebacker level to do some different things. That's going to help the secondary. You know, at that position, you rely a lot on what happens in front of you.

How big of a year is this going to be for Duran Payne, for Johnny Newton, for Kinlaw, for Settle who they added. Yeah. I mean, right? So I have no, you know my feelings about Kinlo. I love him. He's fantastic. The other guys have to be serviceable.

They don't need stats. They need to eat up double teams. Duran Payne needs to have a contract year where he's playing for his contract and he's not going to be playing for it for Washington because, there's just no way you should resign that guy. He just has to have play that way, so he wants to get his other contract, and just eat up double teams because the best linebackers that make the most tackles are on the teams that have the best front two guys in the middle that eat up double teams

so you don't have blockers in front of you. So if Durr-Pain is not commanding a double team or Settle is not commanding a double team or Newton is not commanding a double team and they're all able to be blocked by one lineman, then you're going to have a harder time, Sonny, because you're going to have a guard on you or you're going to have a tackle on you or you're going to have the center on you. They're going to get to the second level, and you're going to have a much harder time to be impactful. You need settle, you need pain, and you need Newton to command double teams so that Sonny and Louvo and Leo, those guys can be free-range linebackers and make plays.

You know, his athleticism, testing-wise, was off the charts. It was one of the best of all time for an off-ball linebacker. Does that kind of insane athleticism show up on tape for you? No, I'm not going to say, I wouldn't use the word insane. I wouldn't. And I don't even, I know I heard about it, I listen. You come on my TikTok a lot now since our partnership, here, so I've heard you talk about his

his combine stuff, but I'll be honest, I didn't watch any of the combine stuff, I didn't look at any the combined stuff, I'm not a combine guy, I'm a film guy. So when you use the word insane, I mean, I know he had like some, like, what he, 20-foot broad jump, I'm exaggerating,

but I know it was crazy. I don't see that, but I think it's because it's deceptive looking on film because he's rangy. It's like, like, like his speed and his power is more long. Yeah, yeah, right. If that makes sense.

It does. So he's, yeah, he's covering ground, but it doesn't look like he's covering ground, because his feet aren't moving his fans. My feet would move because I'm 5'8, but still running a 4-3 where I was, right? So my feet have to move really fast. His don't, he's covering ground, and he's rangy,

but it's still there. It just doesn't pop off. the film. You don't watch the game and say holy Right. It's not like it's a That's the way I described it.

It's like the player for Skins fans that this was always the case with and it's a different position but my God, he could have been a linebacker is when you watched games with Sean Taylor in it, there was a blur. There was a blur sometimes and it was him. I mean, the closing speed was like

almost not recognizable because it was so quick. I don't think that I saw that watching Sunny Stiles at Ohio State, but what you said may be the reason for it. Maybe he's a bit more of a long strider. And you know what? So here's how you're going to know. And it's something that's just going to work its way on you, is you're going to watch a game,

and if you're paying attention, you're going to be, you're just going to notice that he's, oh my gosh, sunny's on the pile again. Yeah. Sonny's near the pile again. Sonny's coming off the pile again. And it's not going to be flashy,

but he's just going to be around the ball every play. And that's how you're going to realize, damn, this dude is that like you sell because he was on the other hash mark and he's still involved in the tackle. Right. He was on the other hash mark and he's still involved and he's still involved.

But it's not, you know, almost killing a punter in a pro bowl game. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Last one on him. So we don't know what we're going to see defensively, but Minnesota ran more base 3-4 than any team in the league last year. And they were in base defense more than any other team last year, which is unusual, because most teams are in nickel or they're in dime more than they are in their base defense, whether it's a 4-3 or 3-4. Do you see much of a difference with him being an inside linebacker rather than a true Mike? Man, true Mike makes me a little nervous. Okay. Because I'm guessing they're going to be, I'm guessing they're going to be, if it's the Brian Flores defense, that their base defense is going to be a 3-4.

And I think Settle may have been brought in to be the nose. Yeah. And I could see that. And now this, again, I think this is the versatility aspect. If you're a good coach and you're a good organization, don't come into the situation set in your ways of this is what's going to happen. This is how we're going to do it. Go through camp, go through mini camp, and sure, start in the three-four,

start with settle running the nose. Start with Sunny inside and Leo inside and Louisville outside and see what happens. but if it isn't working, be able to change, be able to pivot. But I think it's a good starting point. I like him as an inside linebacker in a 3-4 more than a 4-3 where he's like the true Mike. I think that fits better because you can use him in different ways and he can become somebody in past coverage.

Like you can say Leo becomes your best pass rusher as a linebacker. That could happen. I don't know. Sure. I watch stuff tape on him. Sure. On third down, on third downs, you're bringing him, and you're bringing Louisville off the edge, and you're leaving Sonny and manned coverage on the running back.

And you're like, this might be our best past defense we have, because Sonny's our best coverage linebacker, and Leo's our best pass rusher. Great. Well, maybe it's the opposite. Maybe Leo covers better, and Sonny's a better pass rusher. And then let's do that. We got options. And that goes back to the home run.

I think they hit. It just, it's a great fit, and you can do a lot of, things with them. I mean, they got so much younger in this offseason on defense, but what they really got is they got so much faster. They did. They did. And I know we're focused on. I don't want to go negative here, but you might have the worst receiving core in the league, though. That's his issue. You know what? I think Brandon Ayuk's going to end up being here. And I think they've got a shot at 71 to get a decent receiver. And you will come back. At some point, very soon, Monday maybe at the latest, or Wednesday at the latest, to kind of break down some of the other picks that they make tonight and tomorrow.

I know you've got to run. Really appreciate it. And we'll talk, you know, either on Monday or Wednesday. Perfect. Steve Suter, everybody. Tim Legler will join me next. We'll talk a lot about the draft because he is into it. He's a massive Washington fan.

But we'll talk some NBA playoffs. as well. All of that coming up after these words from a few of our sponsors. So I wear glasses. I think some of you know that. I wear prescription eyeglasses. I also wear prescription sunglasses. And recently, it was time to swap out the old and bring on the new. And this has never in the past been an easy process for me. It's always been complicated to try to find the right style for the time, to try to find the right for my face. But Warby Parker has changed all of that. Once you buy from Warby Parker, you realize how much easier they've made the entire process, which includes their virtual try-on, which is a total game changer. You can literally try on glasses from your phone before you buy. It's crazy how

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the lead ESPN, ABC, NBA analyst on what now is playoff time. And I'm assuming you'll be where, in Minnesota tomorrow night for Denver, Minnesota? Yep. So I only know so far my next two games. I know I'll be Minnesota, Denver tomorrow night, and then we're going to do Boston Philly in Boston, game five on Tuesday. On Tuesday.

All right. We'll talk hoops in a moment, but I know what's on your mind more than anything else, and that is Sunny Stiles. So the floor is yours. What did you think? Well, I mean, look, the guy looks like an absolute difference maker, stud. You don't draft a guy with that pick unless you think you're talking, looking at a future All-Pro.

He definitely looks like he's got the makeup for that. There's no question that the major need, particularly watching, you know, Bobby Wagner, as much respect as a half of Bobby Wagner, the career he had it was painful, like the speed difference when he had to coverbacks or just get sideline to sideline, it just wasn't happening.

It looks like this is a guy that could do all of those things, you know, and look, I know he's not, I'm not going to compare him to Jamie Davis, but I did hear the same things about him. And, you know, they didn't even pick up his option when it was time, so this looks like a different

caliber player than that. And it's looked at such a critical position for your defense. I'm happy, man. I had some people last night reaching out to me just like, you know, that he played against their team they love, you know, in college. And they were just like, made it dude, a freak, whatever. I saw enough film on them, you know, leading up to the drafts because I know he was mentioned. And so, yeah, I'm happy, man.

I'm in. How do you feel? Well, let me just real quickly because I had a caller just moments ago on radio, bring up the Jamon Davis thing like you just did. Two things. one, they played Jamin Davis at a position. Two, there's, I think, a massive intellect difference. I'll just leave it at that.

Because Sunny Stiles is considered to be as high IQ a football player as there was in college football this year. By the way, his teammate, Caleb Downs, the same. I had Bobby Carpenter. Remember Bobby Carpenter who played at Ohio State and with the Cowboys? I had him on the show a few weeks ago, and then I played it back to. today on radio. I said of the four Ohio State players that could go in the top 10, give me the guy that you'd start a franchise with.

And he didn't even hesitate. He said, Sunny Stiles. He said, this is just, you know, this is plug and play. This is a given that he's going to be good. This is a given in terms of the culture fit, the IQ fit, the whole thing. So they are athletically similar, Jamin Davis in Sunny Stiles. But I think after that, that's the difference. So what do I think?

I liked it. I liked it a lot. I liked the player a lot. I think, and I'm, well, let me ask you, was there a player that you wanted more than anybody else at seven? Well, I think at seven, it got more and more apparent love wasn't going to be there. I was kind of, that would have intrigued me a lot. But honestly, styles for me of the guys that I was, and it was weird, because I went through probably five different mock drafts that, you know, these experts.

that are leading up to it. It's seventh pick. We're not talking about late first round. You would think the seventh pick there would be more of a consensus. Every single mock draft I looked at had a different player in a different position. And so it was,

but of that group of guys that I was looking at that I knew he'd be in the area, he would have been the guy that I'd been most happy with. As of yesterday's show, I had eight different players at seven mocked to Washington, and then in tradeback situations, another two or three. But at seven, eight different players, yes, it's highly unusual.

This draft had more uncertainty, Tim, after number one than we've ever seen in a draft, or at least that I can remember. I really loved David Bailey, but I knew he wouldn't be there. I love Ruben Bain. Like, I get the short arm thing, and I know that's why he fell to 15. but he wrecked games last year. He was the most impressive player, I think, in college football last year defensively. And I have a hard time believing somebody with that motor and that competitive juice

is somehow going to be ineffective because of slightly shorter arms. But we'll see. Yeah, that's one of those deals. Good organizations tend to get those right. Like the beauties in the eye of the beholder and good organizations typically get those right in the NBA's version of that right now is Oklahoma City in what they see. You know, even, you know, picking up McCain from the Sixers, you know, coming back from his ACL injury and you're like, you know, they gave up, we had a great promising

first 35 games gets the ACL and it comes back and he's struggling and they just decide, yeah, you know, he's not back, maybe he'll never be back. And like they just, okay, CCC's value in that, like, good organizations, good of front offices, they just seem to get those right. and particularly picking as high as commanders were picking. Like, you can't miss. You just can't miss. It's got to be a home run. And it looks like it is, by all accounts.

So let's hope so I just, obviously this entire thing, you know, they had to upgrade some personnel, no question about it. And they put a lot of money into the defense, a lot of focus on the defense. And that's great because that was an abomination last year. And I just, my thing is, like, can we please figure out a way to keep these guys on the field? because it was so ridiculous last year, the number of guys that were dealing with injuries, that it was almost like unprecedented all the years I followed the team. So, like, some of it's fluky, I get it, but like, please give us a year of health,

because starting with their quarterback, obviously, because I'm just going to, I'm in, over the mindset, I'm flushing last year. I finally am at that point. I was so enraged. I know you were. I know you were. period of my life. Yeah.

Three month period of my life, man. And I've been able to flush it. You know, then NBA season kicked in and I'm good, man. I'm loving life and I'm doing my thing. And I always got one eye on what they're doing. And, of course, the season ticket holder, you know, renewal prices came through. And I was kind of like, okay, that's interesting. You know, we got a pretty significant increase in ticket prices after a five-win season.

So, but I did it. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to just hit the reset and we're going to start over. and we're going to assume health. And if we do, then I think every fan has the right to expect a significantly different product. Well, I think you nailed it. I've been very frustrated during this offseason when I hear people say, oh, the team regressed or Jaden Daniels regressed. I'm like, you clearly didn't pay attention to the team.

I'm talking about national people that say that. Jaden Daniels played in four complete football games. Four out of 17. They were without their quarterback, their wide. receiver one, they're running back one, their D-end one. I mean, it was just one after another. I've never seen a season like that in my lifetime of watching this team. And, you know, just the quarterback alone, 99 times out of 100, your season is doomed when you have that level of a quarterback and he barely plays. So of course, health is number one for next year.

But let me ask you a quick question. Let me ask a quick question, though. Is it fair and reasonable for myself, you, whoever loves the team, follows the team, to have legitimate doubt that he is going to stay healthy. Because, like, you think about I think he had four different injuries last year,

four different injuries. And look, unless they stylistically change so that he is not absorbing the amount of tackles that he absorbs. And of course, I have real skepticism that he will, that he will ever,

have a long sustained run of health, and I hope I'm dead wrong. But when you see a guy, you know, it felt like every time he got tackled, he was, something happened to him. And so that was my real, like, kind of, but maybe downtrodden last year more than anything. I can live with injuries, and it's been a tough year and whatever, you know, wherever you want to describe it, it was tough. I can, you can live with that as a fan. But when you're wondering, like, well, what's it going to be like going forward, though?

I don't think it's unreasonable for people to have doubts that it's going to happen. And I just pray that it does because he's such an incredible player. And that's really what their entire thing is built on. And so we just have to get him out there, man, for the majority of the season, if not all of it. It's not unreasonable. And I've talked so much about this since the end of the season with so many different people, callers, et cetera, guests, et cetera. It's not unreasonable after he missed, you know, basically 10 games, but really, you know,

13 where he didn't play start to finish with, as you said, multiple different injuries. But the only thing that I can say in response to that is this past year for him is the aberration. He played 52 of 54 college games in two different spots, and he played all 20 games, not 17, but three playoff games on top of it as a rookie. So no, it's not unreasonable given that it seemed like every time he took the field, he got hurt, and there's the, you know, the body type that I think plays into this for sure and the playing style that plays into this. But this was the first year of his football playing life that he had injury problems. That's fair.

That's a fair counterpoint. And, you know, it's so you get, you know, I'm going into this season, giving the benefit of the doubt and will be, will be absolutely holding my breath every time. Every time I think he's trying to, he's trying to. he's trying to extend a play. And I think, you know, the thing that I was looking at him last year, it just seems that he can't resist because he's so quick. He can't resist, like, that little gap that he might see if the pocket's collapsing,

and he knows there's a little, just a tiny little window that he's one of the only guys in the NFL, if not the only guy, plays that position that can get through that window and still pick up positive yardage. But those are the plays that terrify me. like just stop, like cut those out to the extent that you can. And hopefully he just gets smarter with how he handles and processes those situations, man, and does not take flush hits. He doesn't get trucked on a pick six the way he did.

He was going to say that two of the injuries were completely preventable. He should have never been in the game against Seattle at the end. And if he was going to be in the game, it should have been just handing off in a game that was over. and then the Van Ginkle play was just a massively flukish kind of a play. But yes, look, David Blow is the offensive coordinator. The offensive approach is going to change. He's going to be under center more. There's going to be a reliance more on play action for sure.

But I don't want to see Tim, him ever not use his legs when his legs should be used. because it's part of who he is. It's part of what makes him so great is his ability to extend plays, both as a passer and a runner. No, I agree. Look, I agree. It makes him, it's a differentiating factor that he brings to the table. So now it's finding the balance.

And if you can cut out whatever number of times that he finds himself in those situations where he's taking hits or tackles that he could. avoid, he's got to find that, man, because he's not, he's not just about that. He's a, he's got a great arm, he's got great accuracy, he's got a great IQ. So if he stays on the field, they've got a chance every game. So let's hope, man. Like I said, I'm positive and hopeful. I've finally been able to exercise my thoughts that I had over the course of this three months. Well, there was many an angry text message from you during games, but I'm just going to, I'm just going to say that, you know, what's interesting is this conversation I'm having with you,

I think is focused on the thing that actually matters. You said you've got to hit on number seven. Well, the truth is the draft just in general, top 10 or anywhere else, is a mostly miss and very, you know, less often a hit business. And the bottom line for 2026 and beyond is the quarterback. and we have one, and if he's healthy, thank God, because how many of these years were we talking about, well, what are we going to do at quarterback? So at least that is in place, and the focus has to be on him, his health,

and hopefully what they do offensively to keep him healthy. All right, let's... Yeah, we got it. All right, let's talk some hoops. Let's get to the NBA playoffs, and we'll do that with Tim after these words from a few of our sponsor. We continue with Tim Legler.

I want to start with the game that you'll be working tomorrow night because while the draft was going on, I was very much watching Denver, Minnesota. And I was alarmed as a Denver believer. I actually thought we have not talked about this. I thought they had a chance better, maybe more so than anybody else to beat San Antonio. And that's why I didn't mind them getting the three seed. but I think they're in big trouble. I can't believe Jaden McDaniels and how good that defense was last night. So tell me what you think right now

in the moment with Minnesota holding a 2-1 lead over Denver. Yeah, I mean, it's real, serious concern. And let's start with this. Like, go back to the last game of the year. Yeah. We called Denver, San Antonio,

called that game, and going into it, if San Antonio wins the game, which we were saying they should, try to win this game because you were then pushed Denver to Oklahoma City side of the bracket. You would have made them the four seat. And I'm thinking, because I agree with you,

Denver is the one team that represented the biggest challenge to both of those top two. So why wouldn't you push them over there if you could avoid them? One of those top two teams is going to have to deal with Denver. That's what we all thought. So why don't you let the other guy do it? And then your path just a little bit easier. They didn't do it amazingly because

and the Yoko had you only played the first half of that game so you could be eligible for awards, if you remember. They played none of their other starters, and San Antonio played everybody, really, except Wembe, and they couldn't win. It was a bizarre thing. Denver still won the game.

Anyway, now you get the situation, okay, you're going to have to deal with dinner in the second round. I don't know if you're going to be in the second round. This is alarming, and look, this is as close as you have right now to the best rivalry in the Western Conference in Minnesota and Denver. They've locked heads in the playoffs several times. They don't like each other. They talk a lot.

You saw the stuff with Jay McDaniels the other night. You don't ever see guys sit there and just go down the roster naming names. And literally everybody on the roster, including guys that are pretty good defenders, and say none of these guys can guarders, can have got all of them, call them out, and then the response was what? That was your response to that? Like, you come out, and I'm not a big believer in bulletin board material, but when a guy actually calls names, that to me is probably the one thing

that is bulletin board material. And their response was to come out and get called. completely overwhelmed by their athletic ability, their lengths, their pressure, and, you know, offensively, Yokic, obviously he looked fatigued. He didn't play well, but they didn't have to double them. They're daring him just if he starts scoring in 101, maybe then they'll rethink it, then he'll get some doubles, and then he can pick you apart with his passing. They're deciding to let him be a scorer as much as he wants, and he's having a very difficult time doing it, and as a result, nobody else is really getting loose. He's not using his passing. He's not using his

passing to beat you and make you really second-guess everything you're doing defensively. They haven't had to do that. They're locking them up one-on-one. They're playing, you know, basically staying at home as much as they can on shooters, and their offense just looks so slow and on athletic, and then defensively, they are an inferior defensive team that gets got gutted the other night. But I do think, to me, their offense is so critical. Number one offense in the NBA this year, that's where they hang their head. hat, if that's humming and they're forcing Minnesota to take the bottom of the net or any team they play, now at least back, locked, loaded, set up for a half-court defensive

possession, they've got a chance. When they have that many empty trips and Minnesota is able to get up with pace and get into their offense a little quicker, just to let the difference in athleticism across the board was pretty stark. So I'm curious, the coach in you and the analyst in you, you know, Yokic will, you you know, grab a rebound and he'll lead the break. They'll take it out of the net and he'll bring the ball up the court. And to your point last night, they were letting Yoke, they were not doubling Yokic.

And, you know, the handle was a little bit loose. You said something. I said it last night to my son who was watching the game. I'm like, he just looks tired. And he looked tired at the end of game too. Is there a better way to take offensively for him, maybe take some. of those responsibilities away from him, and let him start with the ball on the block or start with the ball on the elbow.

I mean, do you have any ideas on what Denver should do if they're going to be guarded this way? Because they struggled last night, and Murray could not even advance the ball against Jaden McDaniels. And Jadeny McDaniels' analytics last night on every type of defensive metric he used either points against him on direct drives, points against him when utilizing a ball screen, and he's guarding the ball, points against him when he was the switch defender onto the ball. Per possession, all of those numbers were incredible last night.

Like I'm talking the kind of numbers that you look at for a guy that's a defensive player of the year type of numbers that he did last night. And look, give him credit, man, because he's the one that made those statements. Not only did he do that, he came out and gave him a 2010 game. Yeah. So, like, he, you talk about backing it up, man, he did it. Here's the thing with Yokic, I agree with you. And I actually noticed, like, the very, if you remember that,

the very first possession of the game, Minnesota missed a shot, and Yokish rebounded it, kind of in traffic, turned and just went a hundred miles an hour, well, by his standards, as fast as he could, with the ball down the court, like in a dead sprint on the very first trip at the game. And I'm going, what's the point? He's not going to get all the way to the rim. and it gasses you.

Like right out of the gate, like sprinting 70 feet with the ball, like why? And that kind of set the tone for like what they're going to do. The one area he impacted the game was with his rebounding. And so you get 15 rebounds, majority defensive. And so that's like this thing, right? It's like a unique factor he brings to it. It's great. But against this team that's making any work, even advancing the ball,

because they let somebody linger in the back court, And then he gives it up. And then by the time he gets it back, he's extended out to 35 feet on his second touch. It's just so much extra work for him. And to be fair about him, like, look, you know, guys get tired this week. No one looks more tired when they're tired. No than him. No doubt.

And the reason is because he bends over a lot. He puts his hands on his shorts. He's breathing very obviously overtly, heavily. Everybody can see it. His face gets really flush. Like, he's just one of those guys. Well. He wears his fatigue going out, you know, outwardly so everybody can see it. And I do think this has been wearing on him taking a toll.

It obviously is affecting, you know, three-point shooting numbers, although they've been down, really the entire second half of the season. At one point, you're thinking this guy's going to have a 50-40-90 year, and the three-point percentage has significantly dropped since the All-Car game. The stroke looks good, though, don't you think? I mean, half of them were halfway down and out. No, that's the thing, but here's the thing, Kevin. It does look good.

It looks the same. Yeah. He's got the same, he's got the same pace on it because it's not like he's taking him off the dribble. Right. The ones he takes are, like, he's got time. He's sizes and he's, close out. Right.

Feets set, shoots it, and so they all look, but I'm telling you, when it gets to the point, we're like, this many of them are not going in. This has been going on for a couple months. Like, there's something. There's something. I don't know if he's between his ears. He's just not feeling it. something doesn't feel right to him mechanically, or he is more fatigued than he should be.

But this isn't like a small sample size. I know. Well, you're a shooter. What do you think it is? I wish I could say, because most guys that play my position that are coming off screens or shooting off the dribble or whatever, I can usually pick up on it if a guy's in a real swamp. And it's something that's pretty obvious to me. It's not with him because the nature of the shots are exactly the same as the shots he got the beginning of the season. They're just not going in.

And unfortunately, against this team in particular, he's going, because Gobert is not going to fully close out. He's going to get five, six, eight, ten decent looks from out there if they're massive supplement to their offensive. He's got to keep taking them, right? He doesn't have a choice because that's what's available. And if you don't, the alternative is playing in a bunch of traffic in the rim with a lot of length around you. So this will loosen them up a little bit. But to your point, I do think he doesn't have to advance the ball as much initially. I love when his initial catch is at the elbow.

And he can do that. Gobert's not going to deny him the ball at the elbow. He's too strong. His hands are too good. You only need a tight little window of his hand leading Gobert's hand and just throw it to that spot. He's going to catch it every time. He can catch it in the elbow, and it just makes their dribble handoff game, and they're cutting games, their weak side cut.

They want to flex stuff on the baseline on the weak side action. Like all that stuff becomes more. more effective when he's in the scoring zone. When he's doing that stuff out of 35 feet, it's just you don't have to worry about it as much because you're not going to able to get the ball where he needs to. I mean, they missed Gordon, obviously. But by the way, that entry pass to the elbow has to be.

There were a couple of them last night that were sloppy and were picked. And, you know, part of it's on Yokic, he looked tired and he wasn't getting his body completely in front. He wasn't feeling off, right? Yeah. One last one on this series. I said before the playoffs began, and you're a Yokic guy too, and I love him, that this is a big postseason for him. You know, they won the title.

We expected that would be the first of, you know, at least a few. And here they are with two potential dynastic teams in the West. And he's getting older, too, and he looks tired. I mean, I think his legacy to a certain degree is on the line here in these next few post seasons. Do you agree or disagree? Well, I look at it like this. I think that he can really, really enhance it in terms of historical context on where you rank him. If he gets another one, I don't necessarily think he's going to drop.

Three MVP's in a title is going to put you in a certain conversation. where he ends up on those different lists you put together, top 10, top 20, like, whatever. And actually, to be honest with you right now, like, he's not really mentioned when you look at top 20 lists. Maybe people are just waiting for it to see what it's going to look like at the end of his career. But guys are three MVPs, like, they're in there. And so a second title would greatly enhance the argument he could make for being considered one of the greatest ever any time a list comes up. I don't necessarily think he's going to make people think less of him if he doesn't, if that makes sense.

There's more upward mobility for him in those all-time lists than there is this risk of falling, in my opinion. But I do think this, if they don't, because this was a team, when you have the number one ranked offensive to the league, and like everyone pretty much universally looked at them and said, you know, Yokets doesn't miss a month earlier in the year. Aaron Gordon doesn't miss all the games he missed. Christian Brown missed the beginning of year. Peyton Watson, after finding his game at another level, then he goes down.

And people are saying, well, if you didn't have all of those injuries, like they would be right there with San Antonio and Oklahoma City. And so now they got those guys back for the most part. You know, Watson not really where he was. But now going into the playoffs, they looked so dangerous. having those guys back, if you don't pull it off, that will change in how you look at this team, I believe, going forward and look at their roster and what do they lack relative to teams that are more athletic, faster, younger, stronger, like Oklahoma City, San Antonio, and now if Minnesota's

able to knock them off, I do think you're going to have to totally recalibrate your supporting cast and look at your team differently if they go out in the first round. This sport, more than any other, really does, though, get. judged on rings. I mean, in the legacy conversation about players, it's, you know, it's not a dependent sport like football is. You're not out there, you know, basketball, you're out there the entire time. They're only five on a floor for each team. I hear what you're saying. There's no doubt the upside is really big, especially if you were to, you know, go through San Antonio in Oklahoma City this year or next. But, man, I expected when they won it a few years ago that they were going to be

back in it more than they have been. Staying out West, I have wanted to talk to you about the first two games of Lakers Rockets since the second game ended. Do you feel the same way I do, which is, what is Yudoka doing? How does he allow Kevin Durant to get doubled and turn the ball over nine times without any sort of plan for it? I thought J.J. Reddick coach circles around Yudoka. What did you think? Yeah, I definitely think there's been a pretty massive coaching advantage in that series. And going into it, you know, we did game one. So we talked to JJ before the game, and he's not going to tell you all the everything.

And he's certainly some of that stuff that stays in that room. You don't get to use it on the broadcast. But I was very much confident. And then, of course, we got the news. Durant wasn't playing while we were interviewing him before the game. That's when the post was put out there by Shams Sharana, that Kevin Rantz out. And JJ was kind of like, who? Really?

basically he was caught off guard by that. So then they even adjusted their plan for game one and you kind of thought, okay, this is a must win for the Lakers if they want to have any shot. Because going in, I thought this is a must win for the Rockets. Like, you can't play this team without Luca

and Austin Reeves. You have everybody. You need to set the tone for how this series is going to go. You've got to win game one. When you find out the Rantz out, thinking this is a must win for the Lakers, they took care of business. Game two, Durant plays. And like, I've seen this happened to Kevin Duran and the Houston Rockets by other teams that were able to pull off a similar

sort of style and game play, which is an aggressive blitz when he's got to live gerbil out near half court, ready to run a ball screen. The adjustment to me is obviously your spacing needs to be good on the wings. Here's the problem. Their wings are not consistent shooters. So they don't take a lot, they don't make a lot, their percentage isn't terrible. But some of those guys coming into the postseason, when you're talking about guys, like Tarisen. You're talking about guys like Josh Akke. Obviously, Amman Thompson.

Their wings, if you watch when the double teams are hitting Durant, they drift down toward the base line. It's almost as if they don't want the ball pass to them directly on the first pass that looks like an obvious three, particularly in this league when that's a free that's expected

to be taken. It's not like, okay, catch it to get downhill. Now let's get in some drive and kick action. No, it's like this league is, guy, your best player draws too. It gives it up and you have 10, 12 feet of space. You have to take the shot. I don't think their shooters are remotely confident.

Reed Shepherd even, you know, he had a much better last couple of months of the year. He had a little drought in the middle. Reed Shepherd could do it, but they're staying home with him. So they're leaving those other guys. Shangoon is like, oh, it seems like he's late to flash to the middle. They have a hard time getting him the ball in the middle on these blitzers. So it's like personnel-based. It definitely don't have the right spacing.

They haven't made the adjustments to it. I don't think some of it is this weird acceptance on the part of the rant. This is, oh, this is how they're playing me. Like, that you can't accept this. You have to, you have to figure, okay, even if it comes from you, how about we start you off the ball a little bit? Exactly. What that looks like.

Start down, come off of a baseline screen out to the wings, so you're catching the ball in a scoring area, where now they've got much more difficult decision on who's going to trap, what's the rotation look like. when you're bringing the ball of the floor, you're the first guy to touch it over half court, and you're 35 to 40 feet out, and everybody knows you're about to call

a ball screen over. Basically what you did was play exactly what the double-maker shoot-round look like. That's their shoot-around. Here's where the ball's going to be. Here's the trap's going to be. Here's our rotation. What blows up a game plan defensively? Is the ball not being where you expected

to be when you went over it in shoot-around and a film? That's what blows up game plans. and right now the rockets are taking the ball exactly where the Lakers game plan predicated on how they're going to play Durant. So let's see if there is an adjustment for game three. But as far as the shooting, I mentioned, that's not going to be an adjustment. That's a mindset that dude's making shots, and I don't know that those guys are capable right now because of the way they've struggled. Well, then you've got to, if you're going to invite the trap, the ball's got to go quickly as the traps coming to Sengoon in the middle of the floor and let him, you know, play four on three from there.

I don't know why they don't do that. By the way... There is no question, Kevin, real quick. There's no question. Kevin Rand is holding the ball too long. Until he's back on his heels, backing up because of the amount of pressure that the trap is hitting him with. The ball has to be gotten out of there before you're in that position. Exactly.

And because there's going to be minimum of two guys are going to be able... You cannot deny all three players. He's got four teammates. You can't deny them with three players. you've got a minimum outlet pressure release pass. You do, and he's holding the ball too long, and they're getting tipped, or he's back on his heels, or he's too far away because the guys haven't come up enough

from the corner to the wing, so that pass the 30-foot pass rather than a 15-foot pass. There's all kinds of stuff. And right now, it's like the Lakers are just, they're just feasting, and this and this is the series, and it's not great news for the Rockets that they just found out, you know, all three is going to play tonight.

Right. By the way, talk about not handling the double team. This is another guy that drives me nuts that so many people in the business think is so good. But my guy, Kauai Leonard, got doubled in that playing game against Golden State, and their spacing was terrible. They had handled it during the regular season, and then all of the sudden, you know, they didn't handle it. And Draymond got a lot of credit, but the fact is they doubled them, I think 70% of the night, and they just didn't have an answer for it.

and they ended up turning the ball over seven, I think was 17 times in that game. Well, here's my take on that one real quick. You're right. Draymond got all kinds of credit, you know, about the job he did on him, and justifiably so because, you know, it takes a lot of effort to do it. He did it. What I saw, for some reason, again, was he, just like I talked about the rant, there was a resignation on the part of Kauai Leonard.

When he did get single coverage, he's a four or five dribble combo guy. he was taking two and picking it up, and I couldn't figure it out. It's like he almost made up his mind that he was not going to be able to score against him, and to me it deflated their entire team. All right. I really wanted to see that match up against San Antonio, but it's Portland and San Antonio, and I think I've told you this before. I was a big Denny guy when he was here.

I thought he had the most potential of the young guys that were in the building back then. They moved on from him because they saw an ascending player that didn't match up with the timeline of all of their other younger players, and they wanted to lose for three straight years. How much do you like him as a player, and do you give the Trailblazers a shot if Wemby misses a game or two? Yeah, I give them a shot, and then this isn't just living in a moment. I've been talking about the Portland Trailblazers for probably six, eight weeks. I started watching them second half of this season, and you're just like, it just jumped off the screen to me because they can put defensive-minded players on the floor all over the place that few teams can in this league, and you're not sacrificing a pun offensively for those guys. Like, they're not just one-trick ponies defensively that are complete anemic offensive players. They've got guys that can do both.

And so that was, that was, you know, to me, evident. Now, the key was the emergence of Denny Obdia and the emergence of Shaden Sharp, he ended up getting hurt. Were they going to get enough out of Drew Holiday? Did he have that gear? I mean, it shows me he had a lot more to tank in Boston

offensively than he knew. He didn't need it in Boston. He needed it here. He stepped up in a big way. But it's built around this just this dynamic, relentless force that Obdi is. I mean, this guy plays downhill with as much energy and forces anybody in the league. He really does. He gets where he wants to go. He's tough. He's strong. He competes on the other end.

I said it. I did a game in his late in the year, and I said, if he had to step back three or a step back decent mid-range shot, he's going to take it to all that level. I don't know if he will, because right now he's so good at getting to the rim, getting to the line. Like he's winning anyway, doing that, playing well. But to me, that would be the last thing because he doesn't have a counter if he's guarded well off to dribble. Like all the big scores in this league have, the ability to go to a step back, to side step,

something to get a shot off on their own in one-on-one coverage. You don't have that, but how can you not admire a guy that plays that hard with that much force? And they're athletic all over the place. Scoot Henderson is, to me, a miniaturized version of Westbrook

in that he's a freak, I mean, in a league full of freak athletes, You watch him play, and the burst acceleration he has. It's a one-of guy, and now he's actually making shots from the perimeter. So he took him a few years. People thought maybe a bus, will he ever be efficient, all that stuff, and he make good decisions. It's kind of coming together for Scoot Henderson, like right in front of us.

You take Webby out of that series, and now they're at home. That place is an amazing home environment, but not be shocked whatsoever if they go up to one. Speaking of somebody who has a counter offensively, C.J. McCollum, I think, has always had that. And I, you know, he's one of the best dudes, apparently in the NBA. You would know that Scott's told me that before. And what he did in the garden the other night was great. What he did last night was great. How do you see this series proceeding? Are you kind of into the C.J. McCollum story right now in that series? Oh, God, yes, absolutely. And I just put a tweet out this morning, just kind of recognizing a couple of guys who've been big difference makers that change teams

around the deadline, and one of them was Cominga. I could have said McCollum, too. I didn't mention him. It was almost because it was a given, I'm a big McCollum guy. Camigga, there was more uncertainty there. I was always the guy leading the Jonathan Camiga chance. I couldn't understand how one of the most on athletic teams in the NBA couldn't find a use for Jonathan.

Right, right. I just couldn't get my head around it, and they got to the point where they just dug in on him, and they made up their mind. He's not it, and I'm glad to see him getting a chance. But McCallum, you could put in the same category as a guy that found new life. He's just such a smooth player. He's so mature. He's a big-time, big game player.

He's done that his entire career. Remember, he had a 34-point game in a game seven on the road against Denver. Exactly. Lillard struggled that night. And so he just doesn't seem phased by the light. And you've got this young athletic team that needed stabilization at that position. And that's what McCollum has given them. And they believe right now, man.

They believe because there's too many factors on New York. Too many guys that are going into the game, you don't know how it's going to go for them. You don't know. And I've been pounded it since the series started. I can't believe they're not taking advantage of Carl Anthony Townsmore because they don't have anybody who can guard them. The guy is shooting 57% from the floor on 12 shots a game.

Jalen Brunson is shooting 42% from the field on twice as many shots a game. It doesn't make sense, the efficiency. But Mike Brown has it in his head where we don't want to run plays for anybody. And I'm not going to call plays for Carl Anthony Town. He's got to get in the flow. If you can't figure it out, well, that's on him. Well, that's actually no. It's going to be on you because if they don't win the series,

this series, Mike Brown, even if for one year in New York, he could be in trouble. And the reason for me would be, you're not utilizing the one massive advantage you have, which is Carlyette Town against this small lineup that these guys play. But I don't know they're going to change.

And, you know, McHale Bridges, you know, going scoreless. Like, you're not sure about Josh Hart, like, oh, gee, like these guys aren't, like, Brunson's the one guy you know kind of every night what it's going to look like. For Atlanta, I can list four or five guys. I kind of know what it's going to look like.

And so right now they have massive belief that they're going to win this series. And for the Knicks, it really is game four. If they don't win game four, I don't know they're winning the series. And I kind of come back and win three in a row. I don't think against this team. You know, I just, I know we've talked about this about other players in the past. I just find watching Jalen Brunson to be similar to Harden. It's joyless.

And he is a phenomenal, high-skilled score. but even on that last, you know, possession last night, there's just too much pounding the basketball. And you said Mike Brown won't run plays. I don't think you can win four out of seven four straight series when you play that much ISO or two-man basketball. Donchich got close a couple years ago, but ultimately couldn't get it done.

And I said what I just said about Portland in just in terms of their physical profile defensively, Atlanta's in that category. Yeah. They've got guys that beat you to the spot. They're long. They've got some real want-to in them, very athletic. They can get off the ground as the second jumper and still bother you.

Like, it's a problem, and you just want to play this. Like, we want to flow. It's like the word that's always used. We just want to get it in the flow and just come out of the back court, not call play sets. And Tibbs was notorious for calling more half-court sets. well, okay, Carl Anthony Towns under Tibbs was consistently in the 22, 22, 23 point range, 24. He was under 20 this year. He's only getting 12 shots a game in this series, despite the fact that he's making 60% basically of his shots.

I don't know, maybe you do need to call some stuff. How about you make some adjustments to get this guy some plays where it's cross screens on the baseline, bring him in its post. You put him at the top of the key. that's set a back screen up the lane to roll him into the post. How about some ball screen situations where you have an empty

side? It's just two of them and he sets the screen, hopefully gets a switch and rolls that guard into the post. You're not seeing that stuff. As fact, a number of his baskets in this series, he should have a 57% had been putbacks. There weren't even initial shots that he took on that

possession. It's just him improvising and going and throwing guys around and getting on the offensive glass. It, to me, is so obviously their one weird main advantage is this guy that's this big and this skilled. Now look, I get it. Some of it is on him

just in terms of he's a he's like a dual zone big man. He likes to play behind the three point line. I get it. But he has the ability to put the ball down on straight line drives. He has the ability to post up. And when he gets those opportunities in this series when he's gotten him, he

has scored. And it will set the tone against them that we're going to beat you up physically. Instead of, we're going to play a lot of this series based on the perimeter against really quick, long athletic defenders. And hope that that goes well when Brunson is a smaller guard, he's having problems getting to his spots that he normally gets to. You know, 24 shots a game from your lead guard shooting 42% is going to send you home.

Yeah, no doubt. All right, per usual. We've gone way past your limit. of time, but I appreciate it as always. So who do you have? Let's finish up with that. Who do you have in the finals? Who do you have winning it?

Right now I would lean Oklahoma City and Boston. I think they're the two teams that look like, to me, look at, you know, San Antonio is going to represent a major challenge for OKCCS. Assuming, I'm assuming, you know, these teams I've worked to do, so I don't want to get ahead of myself. But Oklahoma City, Boston, to me, I look at the east. I've been saying for a while all four of those top teams are capable of beating each other in a seven-game series.

Detroit, Boston, the Knicks and Cleveland, I have really believed that. Boston, the one thing about them, is I've described them, they do not contribute to their own demise

with one exception. They will shoot themselves like they did the other night. The situation. 53s, if you went back and looked at the film, 15 to 20, our shots, they could have gotten

five, six seconds later that were more on balance, the exact same shot. They do fall into this, frenetic, almost, like, massive, hyper search for threes. And you're going, man, if you just move the ball a little bit, you've got these two elite guys that can break you down and touch the paint and then get teams chasing you and your percentages just go up and no one's beating you

because they're so good defensively. Give up fewer points than anybody in the paint. Fewer turnovers than anybody in the league. And that's what I mean by they don't contribute to their own demise. They don't miss defensive assignments. They make you earn it from deep contested. they are good rebounding team. They don't turn it over, all that stuff.

But the one thing that they will do is shoot you into the game as an opponent. And they did it the other night. But I still think overall they represent the cleanest performance consistently on a night-by-night basis. And that's why I would pick them getting to the finals. And right now, you know, just I'm still looking at Oklahoma City. And this looks like a team that can repeat. Yeah, I agree. that was my matchup in the finals as well and I haven't seen anything that's going to change my mind

I was just hoping to see a Denver OKC West final with you know Yokic having an opportunity at this rate Kevin we might not even get a Denver no we're not Antonio semifinal no I mean I they look they look exhausted yeah Gordon's got to be yeah he's got to be yeah he's got to play. He is, he might be the single big X factor in the Western Conference. And when he doesn't play, it's just different. Their vibe is different. He's a big money player, big game player, and he just represents stability for them. So he has to play clearly. Look, anybody that thinks that, like, oh, okay, that the nuggets now have solved, I mean, sorry, the Timberwolves have solved Yokets, come on. The guy, the guy is the guy capable on Saturday night when we're sitting, I'll be sitting

court side? Is he capable of dropping 40 efficiently? And yes, of course he is. So you can't act like they're out of this series. They just need to win a game, get home court back, and then they'll have two out of three at home to close this thing out. But it's obviously game four is it for them. They fall down three-one. I'll say the same thing I said about the Knicks. I don't think they're coming back if they go down three-ones. Game four is it. He has to be great. They need Gordon out there, get a win, shrink it the best of three, and they'll still have a really a good chance to advance and play San Antonio, Patal probably in the second round.

At Legs, ESPN on X. And by the way, Tim actually tweets now. He used to not tweet at all, but now... Not often, not often. But this time of year, a little bit more... Occasionally, though, this time of year. And Tim, with Mike Breen and Richard Jefferson, it is a great broadcast on ESPN and ABC. Thanks for doing this, as always. I'll be listening the rest of the way. anytime you got it Kevin Tim Legler everybody he is just so good

and once they started to give Tim games two three years ago whenever it was I knew it wasn't going to take long and I talked about that even with him it was not going to take long

before they had to put them on the number one team he's the best exes and O's analyst in the sport broadcasting wise and he and Mike Breen and Richard Jefferson do the best job on these NBA games.

And if you're just tuning in because it's the playoffs, I'm telling you, that's the best watch. And there are a lot of different options you have now because the games are on NBC and Peacock and Amazon Prime. But the ESPN ABC broadcast with Breen, Tim, and Richard Jefferson is the best. He'll be on the call with those gentlemen tomorrow night. Game four, Minnesota and Denver. That one's on ABC tomorrow night at 830. All right. Done for the day. We'll be back on Monday and we'll have more breakdown of Washington's draft with Steve Souter.

We'll probably take a couple of players on Monday with Steve and then a couple more on Wednesday next week. Enjoy the rest of the draft and the weekend. Talk to you on Monday.