The Kevin Sheehan Show - Washington Pursuing Watson Too

Episode Date: March 7, 2022

Kevin today with JP Finlay on the latest reports/speculation on Washington's quarterback pursuit. Kevin on Coach K/Duke's loss Saturday night to North Carolina in the final game for Coach K at Cameron Indoor. Then Hayden in Virginia (long-time caller to Kevin and Chris "Mad Dog" Russo's radio shows) joined Kevin to discuss Coach K, Maryland, the Washington QB situation, and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. J.P. Finley will be on the show briefly because he's headed to the golf course. So we're going to get about five to seven minutes with JP on the quarterback situation. And then Hayden in Virginia will be on the show.

Who's Hayden in Virginia? Hayden's been a caller to the radio show many times over the years. If you're a Mad Dog listener, Chris Mad Dogg Russo listener, an XM serious. Hayden is a regular caller and a favorite caller of Mad Dogs. Hayden loves our show, listens to it all the time, calls into the radio show. He's a big Terp alum, Terp fan, and I thought of him for today because I know that he probably felt the same way I did about Coach Kay losing his final game Saturday night at home against Carolina. It was delicious. So Hayden in Virginia, a caller, a longtime caller will be a guest on the show.

J.P. Finley coming up here momentarily. So since the Saturday podcast, which I put out after the Ian Rappaport discussion of the multiple picks that were offered for Russell Wilson, there's been more. You know, there was a report from a Raiders insider that the commanders, that's the team that plays in Washington, that there's some interest in Derek Carr from them. And then, really, the Aaron Wilson report, Aaron Wilson, a long time writer for various publications. Now he's with Pro Football Network, suggesting that the commanders and Panthers are interested in trading for Deshawn Watson. So you've got Watson stuff, by the way, Jeremy Fowler and Dan Graziano from ESPN also had some of that as well in their story from over the weekend about Washington's potential interest in Deshawn Watson. Let me just say this about Deshawn Watson. Number one, you can't trade for him unless you know that he's been criminally cleared.

That's number one. Number two, I would not worry for one second about the PR ramifications if I were Washington on trading for Deshawn Watson. They wake up to bad PR every morning. It can't get any worse. Their only goal, as an overall business, should be to win games and become a winning organization on the field. Because without that, they've got nothing. Okay? and they are hurting right now as a business. Now, all things relative, you know, getting 1.30 second of the television money means they are just fine.

But in all of the other revenue streams that NFL teams generate, they are not doing well. All right. There are not a lot of season ticket packages being sold for next year right now. There's not a whole hell of a lot of excitement around the team. I think it's one of the reasons they're trying so hard to let everybody know how hard they're trying to acquire a franchise quarterback. Third thing on Deshawn Watson. Of the three, Watson, Wilson, and Rogers.

I don't think Rogers is a possibility, so let's clear him from the conversation. Watson, Wilson, anybody else you want to throw in there. Watson's the one. He's the best one. He's the one that's 26 years old, is under contract for several years, is already a very, very, very good quarterback, borderline elite quarterback, top five to top eight in the league.

And he hasn't even entered his prime yet. That's the player you would want. Even if Rogers were in the conversation, Watson would be the one. Now, obviously, that is taking all the other stuff and pushing it to the side for a moment and expecting it to be resolved or prefacing the conversation with if all of that stuff gets resolved. He's the one. I think plan A is Russell Wilson. Plan B is Deshawn Watson.

And plan C is the Mitch Tribusky, you know, Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Marriota, and a draft pick situation. That's what I think. But Deshawn Watson, the problem will be is you got to work. wait, you got to wait for the criminal charges to be cleared. You cannot trade for him when there's even a long shot possibility that he could be criminally charged. You can't do it. I think that's the problem a lot of teams have. Also, I do think it's interesting that Miami, the team that had been most engaged with Houston over the last year, going back to this time last year, completely pulled out. Chris Greer, the GM, saying, we are no longer interested.

interested in Deshawn Watson. I wonder if they know something. Who knows? But really, of all of the quarterbacks, Watson's the home run if everything is cleared and he's ready to roll and play football. He's the one. He's 26. You're getting him entering his prime. He's already really, really good, already easily a top 10 quarterback in this league. So, you know, if you're really thinking about how does Washington get to the point where they have a decade, a decade of being a contender. Watson is the answer. Not Rogers, not Wilson.

Rogers gives you a three-year window. Wilson gives you a five-year window. Watson gives you the 10-year window. And by the way, Watson's better than Wilson right now. I believe that. I think Watson's a better quarterback than Russell Wilson. And I love Russell Wilson, but Watson's a better overall player right now than Russell Wilson is. Getting Deshawn Watson ready to play football cleared of all the other stuff,

he's better than Russell Wilson is right now. All right, let's bring in JP Finley to talk about this. J.P.'s getting ready to play some golf at a very fine golf course in the area. And he's got a tea time here in minutes on this beautiful Monday afternoon. Before you head to the first tee box without any practice swings, do you believe all of the reporting of the last couple of days? The Russell Wilson multiple picks, the discussion that Washington's interested in Deshawn Watson, are you buying all of it?

Yeah, absolutely. And that it completely checks out with everything I've heard and been told and have said that they're really going to knock on every door, so to speak. All that said, that doesn't mean they're going to get anybody. And I think part of kind of the – Ron Rivera is telling everybody that will listen on the record. I mean, look at everything he said in Indy. Martin Mayhew, we're looking everywhere we can to upgrade the position.

So certainly, I think it all really. rings true, but I think some of it is trying to manage expectations if they don't land any of these guys. I mean, how many times in the past couple months have we heard, yeah, we tried for Stafford, but you couldn't get them. Like, I think there's an element of that coming as well if they end up with just a rookie and a mid-tier free agent. Before we get to Wilson and Watson in more detail, I've ruled out Rogers, have you? Rogers, yeah. I mean, I don't think he would ever come here. I don't think they're keeping him in the NFC. I never thought Rogers was a real possibility in the whole time.

So of the two, Wilson and Watson, which is more, forget about the realistic possibilities of either one of them landing in Washington. If we did one of our sports talk hypotheticals, and I told you after you woke up from a long nap that Washington had just traded for either Wilson or Watson, which one would you guess it was? If I had to be Watson, because they have to trade him. They're not going to pay him $39 million. And they're going to go with Davis Mills or whatever it is they're going to do. Watson's going to be on the move. There's no clarity that Wilson will be. And perhaps I'm being naive because of the pending legal situation and all of that.

But I think when Pete Carroll said we don't have any intention of moving Russ Wilson last week at the Combine, I don't think he's lying. Now maybe they'll get some Godfather offer they have to consider, but if I had a guess which one of these guys, forget Washington, just which guy is more a credible trade target for any team, it's got to be Watson because they've got to move them. Yeah, no doubt about that. Like if somebody said only one of the two got traded, it would be Watson.

But I asked you if one of the two got, if I told you one of the two got traded to Washington, you think it would be Watson. I think that those are the odds. Yeah, I do. But Watson's got... I know that, Kev. I know that from a football perspective,

they don't think his allegations and the incredibly toxic history of the Washington organization that one has to do with the other. A lot of people are like, they couldn't trade for Watson because of what he's alleged to have done, considering everything the organization is alleged to have done.

And I don't think these football organizations use it that way. Yeah, I don't think they should. I think they should be, I think they're desperate for a quarterback. They have to win, JP. They wake up to negative PR every day. It can't get any worse. Could that change when he gets deposed and has to plead the fifth or if he pleads the fifth

or if some of this testimony from these women come out? It could be a moving target here. Well, of course. And in fact, you can't trade for him until you know he's going to be criminally cleared. Because it would be so Washington, right, to trade two ones and Chase Young to Houston for Watson and then he goes to jail. I mean, it's not out of the realm. I don't think, you know, in reading a lot about this situation that it's likely, but he could be criminally charged. And at that point, you know, he's not going to be able to play until those charges are cleared in some sort of.

sort of resolution happens. So I think that, so you get into the calendar of that, because free agency starts in nine days on March 16th. And his, you know, the grand jury's not going to rule on criminal charges on him until April 1st. Will they have to make a move on a Trebisky or a Marriota right away? I mean, it's going to be one of the trickiest parts of all this because I don't have that answer. You wonder if some of these veteran QBs might not last a little longer.

Like if you think about like I think their quarterback situation will run all the way up until the draft because even if they sign Tribiski if something emerges

draft week, which is frankly the next real deadline I think because I don't think you're going to get any sort indication on Watson before then. They've got to be flexible enough that, listen, we like the idea of trying to this reclamation project with Mitch, but now all of a sudden we have a sure thing here. And I think whatever free agent quarterback you sign could become part of a trade package.

It is later because, sure, they got Davis Mills, but we'll also give you Mitch Trimisci in addition to the two ones and maybe it's three ones or two ones in pain, whatever the offer looks like. I think it's not sexy, but at least it's a real veteran backup or whatever it is. But whatever move they make in free agency, they can't let that impact if there's a big swing to be made on Watson or Wilson later in leading up to the draft. Actually, it's a very tricky spot here because if it's Trubisky that they want, if they can't land Wilson or Watson, and let's assume that they can't really find out about Watson until after free agency starts

and there's competition for Trubisky, you know, you're talking about perhaps having to commit more than a year and perhaps eight figures plus a year to Trubisky, if that's the guy they won. And that becomes a little bit problematic because your idea of then turning around and using him in a trade to get Watson once Watson's cleared, well, then you're talking about.

about dead money and a lot of it. So it's super problematic. The timing sucks. Like there's no way around it. My point would just be you can't let the timing hold you back if there's a real big swing to be made. So what's your guess? Let's just fast forward two months, May 7th. We are clear of the draft.

Who are the quarterbacks that they have on their roster? Trubesky and Willis. My guess right now. Yeah, that's been my guess for about four weeks running. What do you think? I mean, what do you think the reaction? Yeah. The reaction, I think there's legit excitement for Willis.

I think the Trubisky-Hineke stuff is going to be way more real than the Brass is probably expecting from the fan base. a lot of Heineke fans out there, and if Mitch struggles, I mean, listen, Mitch ain't signing here unless he's given some indication he's the starter, because he's going to have a market, too. That's the thing that gets forgotten in this is, like, you imagine eight figures. I think he gets there because I think he has a good market because there's no available quarterback. I wouldn't be stunned if it's Bridgewater, maybe at a lesser number, and he's a little more. I mean, Teddy B. and Scott Turner go all the way back to Minnesota.

Herney was on the staff in Carolina when they acquired Bridgewater. I think they're telling everybody how hard they're trying because they know their options kind of thing. Yeah, they're doing a damn good job of letting everybody know how hard they're trying. I don't

know if that's a good strategy or a bad strategy. I'm kind of mixed on it. I think, you know, if I'm sitting in that room out there with them, they're desperate. from a new season ticket, you know, from their sales department are telling them, we need something to sell season tickets. Even if it's, you know, we're nearing a deal with Wilson

or we're swinging big and we're going to land one of them potentially. We need something. I think it's a tough position they're in. I don't really have that much of an issue with them, you know, going out of their way to tell us how hard they're trying. I really don't. I just think it's interesting how much they care. about it.

I agree, and I've heard the same about season tickets and season ticket renewals. Terrible. They're in a weird spot, man. A bad spot. It's not a good spot. Go hit him straight. Appreciate you doing this. Thanks, Cattle.

Good to talk, man. My thoughts on Duke's loss in Coach Kay's final home game next. And then Hayden and Virginia will be our guest. I'm actually looking forward to that. Right after these words from a few. of our sponsors. Your ratings and reviews on Apple in particular over the last several weeks have been spectacular and so much appreciated. I got a note this morning that said we were 15th this morning on the Apple charts for podcasts, sports podcasts, and the ratings and reviews,

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don't forget to rate us and review us on Apple and Spotify specifically Apple it's really helpful. So I wanted to do just a quick segment here before I bring on Hayden in Virginia, which I'm looking forward to because Hayden's a little bit nuts. I love him, though. Love him dearly. He's a great caller.

And we've developed this relationship over the years where we text each other during games and we talk every once in a while. And he's smart and he's in the area, but he's a New Jersey guy that went to Maryland. and hell, when I went to Maryland, basically everybody was from Jersey or Philly or New York. But anyway, Saturday night's Duke loss in Coach Kay's final game was scrumptious for any longtime ACC fan that isn't a Duke fan. I can only tell you that if you think people like me on Saturday night and Twitter lit up with ACC fans and people who just don't like Duke with like this feeling of joy that Coach K

lost in his final game at Cameron Endure. If you really think that it's petty and small, I understand that, but you don't get it. You don't understand because there's a compliment in all of this. The compliment is that we feel this way. Because Duke's been so great. I know that seems backhanded a little bit, but it really isn't. It's Duke has become the Yankees, the Cowboys, you know, Notre Dame football, the Patriots, I guess. They have become a pop culture phenomena over the last 30 years. He's been there for 42.

It really started in the 90s, you know, when they started to win titles. And they were going to Final Fours and Christian Leitner and Bobby Hurley and Graham. Hat Hill, like all the perfect, you know, characters. And it became very cultish from afar, you know, all about family and the Cameron Crazies and Cameron Indoor and Duke and pounding the floor, you know, when you were back on defense. And if you were an ACC foe, you know, a traditional year and in year out twice a year, sometimes three times a year, sometimes four times a year. See 2001, Maryland, and Duke. Foe, if you were one of those teams that were in the shadow of Duke for so long, you just had this built up over a long period of time.

Respect, yes, but also this incredible hunger to see them fail and for your team to produce that failure. It's really hard to explain it unless you've lived it from the chair of a Carolina fan or a Maryland fan or a Virginia fan or an NC State fan or a Georgia Tech fan or a Wake Forest fan. I'm not talking about the Johnny come late least to the ACC. I'm talking about the longtime ACC teams that were a part of the ACC in its heyday in its greatest years. because the ACC is not in its best, you know, days right now. Duke's success, his success, everything that came with being the number one program for three decades, they were the number one of the Blue Bloods.

Kansas wasn't better than Duke. Kentucky wasn't. Carolina wasn't. Duke was Duke. They were different. They were totally different. They were so great. and yet at the same time they were accompanied by this feeling that almost all of those people in the program were part of this exclusive high-end club that you northern, you know, necks from college park, and they'd basically thumb their nose at you.

You know, they thumb their nose at Carolina fans, basically. I mean, Carolina fans and Maryland fans were actually together in their hatred of. Duke during all those years in the 90s and the 2000s. So many conversations. I got a note from a friend of mine, a Carolina, a long-time Carolina friend who texted me. I had heard from him in a while. He said Saturday night was a top five win all time for him as a Tar Heel fan. It was incredible to sit there. And I sat there and my wife looked at me like I was nuts. And then I had some of my boys who were in spring break my youngest and some of his friends walked in and they had watched the first half somewhere else,

and they walked in and they're like, what? They're losing? And then my wife had this look like, God, you guys are just so, you know, it's awful. Don't you want to root for? No, we're not rooting for him. You don't get it. You don't understand.

And at the end of that game with the Carolina, you could see it. You could see the celebration. You could see how, I mean, Carolina fans, I could feel it for them. What a win. And it was shocking, too. There was an element of surprise to the win because they were 11.5 point underdogs. And they were down in the first half and that all of a sudden they didn't just win. They scored 55 in the second half and they blew the doors off Duke. And by the way, Duke couldn't

stop them defensively. And then they were running basically nothing offensively. It was beautiful. And Kay walked off that floor devastated. And then they had the whole puck. post-game thing. He didn't want to be there. He's a competitor. He was pissed that they lost that game. And there was also something so apropos about the beginning of the game where ESPN had Kansas and Texas going to overtime. Whoever planned the start of the Carolina Duke game for 6 o'clock when you had Kansas and Texas, I know it was 620 tip, but we missed, or most people missed all of the pregame with the former players and all the pomp and circumstance around K's final. game. What a terrible job by ESPN. Terrible job.

To have that game, you know, not go at 7 o'clock with plenty of time for Kansas and Texas to end, even if it'd gone to double overtime. Now, they were, they had an alternate broadcast on the ACC network. But the post game, oh, everything about it, the whole night, I don't know, man, I wasn't expecting it. So I wasn't really, there was, I was going to sit and watch it on Saturday night. There was no doubt. That was the plan. And I was looking forward to it. And to be honest with you, I was interested to see how Duke was going to handle it and to see all those former players. And it's, you know, by the way, the tickets were the big story about how, you know, some tickets were going for like 50, 60, 70, 80, 90,000 dollars. It may have been, this may not be

an exaggeration to say that the tickets on Saturday night to Duke Carolina may have been the most difficult ticket to access of any sporting event in recent memory. Our good friend Scott Van Pelt was there. Scott was there. He was texting me throughout, said it was incredible, said the atmosphere was unbelievable. He said the Duke fans were great to him. They started chanting SVP when he walked in and they were chanting go Terps. That was nice.

But for anybody, anybody that's really got Rudy. for any of those long time ACC programs in their sports rooting blood. You were not rooting for Duke. And to watch Carolina come back and blow the doors off them and to see the reactions, it was delicious. And on some level, I'd love to see an ACC tournament rematch between Duke and Carolina or a tournament, you know, match. And, you know, it's funny over the years,

as much as, you know, these schools and these fan bases have been arch rivals, it's also been very family-esque. I talked about that as it related to the ACC documentary, the tournament documentary on the ACC Network when we had the guest last week on. You know, and one of the lines from the director, I think, is he couldn't believe how close-knit, it felt very family. everybody was intimately familiar with one another in the stories. And that's true.

You know, I could sit there with a Duke fan or a state fan or a Carolina fan and we could talk for hours about the games and the players and the coaches and the moments. There was a real shared experience. And it was a, they were, they were intense games and rivalries. But when you got to the tournament, some of you never understood this because you weren't a part of it with any of the schools. And I understand that. everybody would root for each other. You'd root for the other ACC teams to do well in the tournament.

Hell, I find myself doing that in the Big Ten. I don't even feel totally indoctrinated yet in the Big Ten. It was shocking, and I can only imagine how the Carolina fans felt at the end of that thing. You could see it on Twitter. I mean, Carolina players, former players, former coaches, I mean, people wang in. And this was for that program, one of the all-time great programs in the history of the sport. And I think in the moment, if you asked any one of them, that was as sweet a victory as they have ever had. I think the rest of the league felt it in some way as well.

All right. Hayden and Virginia will be my guest next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Marches here in the madness has officially begun. It's time for you to shoot your shot and score big on the first. the nonstop action with My Booky. Predict winners in each round of the My Booky bracket contest for a chance to win a Bitcoin, a Doodle NFT, currently valued at over $50,000, and over $100,000 more in cash prizes. Whether you're filling out multiple brackets, betting the national championship winner,

or simply looking for player and game props. MyBooky has you covered. Sign up today with MyBooky. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., to make your first deposit, earning a free entry into the My Bracket contest. Selections for the bracket will officially begin on March 13th and close, March 17th, at 12 noon, so make sure you get your deposit in now. Kevin D.C. is the promo code. You'll secure a free entry. Bet anything, anytime, anywhere with my bookie. So my guest now on the show is Hayden in Virginia. Hayden has called the radio show many times over the years. Hayden is a regular caller into

Chris Mad Dog Russo show on XM Serious Radio. He's one of Mad Dog's favorite callers. Hayden is a huge Terp fan, huge sports fan in general. Hayden's from Jersey, I'm pretty sure. And I just was thinking about you. You and I text back and forth a lot, but I don't think we've texted since Saturday night, and then you texted me about something earlier today,

and I'm like, you know what, why don't you come on the show today? And I wanted to start off by just asking you if on Saturday night you were as pumped up to watch Kaye lose his final game at Cameron Indoor as I and many others were. Well, as any diehard turp fan, Kevin, and I've suffered as a season ticket holder. I've been on that wall in my seat and section 18 all season long. Saturday night was the nice opportunity to finally get a smile in our face this year. It was the perfect evening for turp fans, Kevin, especially when you throw in the Indiana loss earlier in the day as a cherry on top.

Just the perfect day. Absolutely perfect day. Do you really care about Indiana losing? I do. I just do, yeah, it's a rival. Inside that Big Ten, Kevin, yeah. Hold on, this is interesting. We've never talked about this.

You consider our rival in the Big Ten to be Indiana? No. The funny thing you ask, about that is I've learned this a few weeks ago. The rival in College Park right now in the Big Ten is Penn State. I know it is. And the father's funny thing about that is it's kind of a weird devil's triangle between the folks in College Park, the folks in Happy Valley, and the folks in New Brunswick, New Jersey, because the folks in New Brunswick, New Jersey, hate the folks at Penn State just as much as we do. So there's this weird, and I don't think the

folks at Penn State really give a rat, you know, what? about us or them. So it's a very strange dynamic. But when I was at that Terps basketball game a few weeks ago, the students made it loud and clear who their rival is, no doubt. When you say New Brunswick, New Jersey, you're referring to Rutgers University, of course. And I just, I think you are right when it comes to football, for sure. And I did not go to the Penn State game a couple of weeks ago,

but you texted him and you said the fans are really into this game right now. I don't really feel anything towards anybody in the Big Ten yet. I mean, I think that we've had some really good games with Michigan State since we've entered the league, some important games against Michigan State. We obviously had to dust up with Michigan last year, but, you know, you didn't get a rematch. That would have been the biggest home game of the year had Michigan been on the schedule at Xfinity. I don't feel anything for anybody yet, basketball-wise. maybe Michigan State a little bit, but it's only because they're kind of the program in the league and have been since we've been in it.

But I'm surprised that you feel anything towards anybody because you miss being in the ACC like I do. Absolutely. Well, first off, Michigan State and Izzo has always been the measuring stick for every college who's been. Every turp fan since we've entered, they've been the measuring stick. but our only national title went through Indiana, Kevin. And every time that highlight gets played, it brings goosebumps to me. And holding that over that program, which is a five-time NCAA champion, means something to me. Every time we go to Assembly Hall and win a game, it means something.

That's a special place in college basketball world. And the thing that I've learned is the switch from the ACC, it's generational, first off. uh... and it depends on where you are in your perp fandom as far as age goes where you feel about it it's totally different when i talk to the current students for example they don't even think about the ac c they don't even it's not even up a bullet they don't even know with the two thousand one national champion team is to be quite honestly uh... and going back to that pennstay game uh... that was the

best crowd of the season other than the virginia tech game when they handed out the biased jerseys and the only reason those students should showed up. And I asked them, man to man, woman to woman walking out, they all told me they hate Penn State. And I'll take those students for their work. Well, you weren't at the Ohio State game, were you? Of course I was. I was at every home game this year. The only home game I missed was the Northwestern disaster. Because of the Jets? Sunday, I had to be a Jets home game. I had to be a Jets Eagles home game. Yeah. Another disaster. Rough Sunday.

Yeah, that was a rough Sunday for you. Yeah, because I think the Ohio State, I was not, I, You know, this probably, well, it is. This will be, well, no, because of the pandemic 2020 season. I think it's the first year. I have never, I haven't been to a game. I think it's probably the first year in my life that I can remember that I haven't been to at least four home games. I didn't go to one home game this year.

Now, I was going to go to the Ohio State game. I was going to go for the 20-year thing, and something came up, and I had to go out of town for that particular day. I ended up recording the game and watching it late that night when I got home, which was a week ago Sunday. But, yeah, I have felt very much kind of detached, even though I've enjoyed watching this team. By the way, this isn't why I called you.

Okay, I called you because Hayden is a longtime Terp fan, went to Maryland, is a big part of the fan base. He is a recognized voice in the crowd. we'll just leave it at that. And I just want to know what your reaction was Saturday night when Carolina beat Duke in Kay's final game. Like I said, let's start with the 30-minute buffer that ESPN forgot to get. It was the perfect evening because if you're been watching this whole generation of oops,

everybody complains about ESPN over-scheduled these games every two hours. And the fact that they had to commit an extra hour to his post-game ceremony and missed the first 30 minutes was just the appetizer, Kevin. That was just the appetizer was yet to become. They blew a eight, ten-point lead, whatever it was. They choked from the bench. So when you're watching that second half unfold, you're almost in disbelief. They had an eight-point lead.

They were almost in control. It's going to go the storybook ending that we all were rooting against, and then it turned. And then those last five minutes, you're just waiting for Carolina to choke, which we've all seen many a time before throughout this rock. rivalry, we're in College Park, and when they held on, it was probably the most satisfying senior loss. I've seen them suffer there since 2001 and Shane Badiate on his senior night. And I don't know where you rank it, but that's where I, that was the first thought that went through my mind. And that was when the party was just getting started, Kevin.

But where did it rank for you? So, first of all, it was shocking. Let's put that on the table because it was unexpected. You know, Carolina, Duke was an 11.5 point favorite. This seemed like, you know, it was going to be just, it seemed like a given that, you know, they brought all these players in. This was Kay's final game, Cameron & Door. You know, people have been making a big deal out of it all week.

The ticket prices were probably higher on the aftermarket than any Super Bowl in recent memory. It may have been the hardest ticket in recent memory in sports. to actually get a hold of. And so the expectation was that Duke was going to roll, and I've watched Carolina enough this year. They're not very good. You know, they're just not that very good. I'm not sure how good Duke is either, but that's beside the point.

But when Carolina took the lead in the second half, and then they started to extend it a little bit, then Duke came back. Then I was completely engaged. I was like, oh, my God, this would be incredible. Can you imagine if Carolina goes up? and wins tonight. And my wife was there. And she's like, are you rooting for North Carolina? And I said, of course I am. And she said, well, that's rude. It's Shushchevsky's last game. I mean,

don't you want him to win? No, I don't want him to win. And she looked at me and she said, you know, that's the problem with you and all your Maryland friends. You guys take it to an extreme. And I said, nope, you just don't understand. And unless you've been in our shoes, or by the way, I would put, I think the entire conference was rooting for Carolina on Saturday night. Anybody that's been affiliated with any long-time ACC school, I'm not talking about Syracuse or Louisville, all right, or Virginia Tech.

I'm talking about longtime real ACC fan bases. All of those people were sitting there just on the edge of their seat, hoping that Carolina would pull it off. And I said this in the open to the show, Hayden. It's because part of this is complementary to them. He's built something, he built something, and they became something that everybody wanted to become, but we never got close. No one did. They've been the number one blue blood of all of the blue bloods for 30 plus years now.

Not in the 80s, okay, not for all 42 of his years. But, you know, since the 90s, Duke has been the Yankees, they've been the Cowboys, they've been Notre Dame football, and it's Duke. And this unbelievable run of success has made them incredibly polarizing. But if you've had a team that you root for that's had to compete with this and you've had the painful losses and then the condescending press conferences from him after a loss, And you've known that he's not been, not been, you know, the classiest of losers when he's lost. And, you know, there are plenty of examples. But again, it's because they're so great that they put themselves into this position. And it's become almost cultish, this Duke thing over the years.

And I talked to one of my friends who's a Carolina fan. He texted me after the game. He said, this is a top five. win all time for me. All time. I mean, they've got national championships and massive wins. I mean, you're talking about a blue blood. Top five win all time. And I, you know what? I totally felt it for them, because I felt it for everybody that had gone head to head, had gone head to head with Duke over the years. And again, I want to be clear on this. It's not because I don't think Shoshavsky is a great coach or Duke's a great program or that I hate Shoshchevsky. It's the competitive bloodlust that teams that have had to go up

and bang their head against Duke and the cult of Duke over so long it was joyous on Saturday night. Kevin, you hit it on that. It's the ultimate sign of respect of how much we're into this and how we're so heavily invested. And here's a little nugget. Duke was ranked every time they played Carolina from January 29th, 1997, all the way through the 2020 COVID season. Last year was the first time. Think about that. Incredible. Think of, for most kids, you know, most kids in college can't re, weren't alive at a time before they weren't ranked playing in one of those games. It's the ultimate sign of respect for

that program. But like you said, I think there is, um, There's a total, how do I say this, a chasm between the perception of the Duke size of the Duke fan base and the reality of the Duke fan base. And the only way to really understand it is when you show up to an ACC tournament. Right. And when you go to a tournament, when you went to one, like you said, 80% of the building was rooting against them. And it's not just because of their success. They are a small private school. They are a blip on the collegiate radar compared to a large state university.

And they're fan base. They don't have real fans, Kevin. And yet over the years, it's grown and morphed into this monster. And that's why it's funny. You know, you try to keep politics out of sports, but I really do believe in the last few years, it's just kind of bled through it. And in my opinion, and I said that the dog before the game on Saturday night, Shishvsky represents half the country that just believes getting the meat, whatever the result is, justify the means. By any result, any way, when necessary, whether it be cheating, whether it be condes, you know.

I don't think Shishvsky's a cheater. Well, let me ask you a broader issue of the sport. Do you think that you don't think any of the, you, how many of those one and done do you think were clean? I think he was, I think he's been in a position for a long, long period of time where he picked and chose. Picked and chose. Well, they were all dirty, Kevin. There's money trails for all these kids. Let me ask me a different question.

Go into a different sport. The Zion thing is a little bit shady in some areas. Give me other examples. Well, all those one and done, there's a money trail for at least 12, but I want to eight to nine of them out of the 15 to 20, at least there's money trails. So, I mean, you, but all I'm saying is this, he was trying to compete with Calipari, right? I look at him very similar to Bond and McGuire, right?

McGuire was cheating. McGuire was taking the steroids. He'd hit all the homeowner, so was so-so, and Bond wasn't at that time. And Bond was furious because Bond was better than that, right? He knew he was better than them. And so eventually he saw all these guys getting all the accolades, saw it, and he'd get jealous. So eventually, what did he do? He did the same bleep and thing.

And that's what he Sheeshke did. He saw Calipari going down this path. He couldn't compete. There was no way he was going to compete. So what did he do? He said to his friends at Nike, I'm going to turn my back. You do what you do, and that was the result. And it is what it is.

And the sport is, it's a bigger issue in the picture of the sport, and you're right, is he, John Wooden's a cheater, too, though. Of course. That's why, Kevin, but that's why Knight doesn't get the worst right now at this moment. Bobby Knight deserves so much more respect because he did it cleanly, Kevin. He might be crazy. He might be a nut job, but the one thing he wouldn't do, he wouldn't cheat on principles. And that's the thing I think that really bothered him about Shetsky getting back to Kay, by the way.

I think it bothered him the way Kay kind of distanced himself, you know, and we read all the Eno Connor book and all these things. I think that was part of a strain in that relationship. That Cheshefsky was just too arrogant to, you know, to admit who he is, who he is, so to speak. Yeah, I don't, look, Hayden follows this stuff. He's closer than almost anybody out there. Your knowledge of college hoops is deep. I mean, you go deep.

I don't want to get into a smearing of Shishvsky because I don't know. And I've heard obviously things over the years, but I think relative to most of the top programs, I think there are others that have been a hell of a lot worse. And if the trail really is a Nike trail and not a Will Wade kind of a situation or a Sean Miller kind, that's not what Shoshchewski's been doing. Okay, he has a... I have the ultimate respect for Shepard.

I don't want to paint him as the sport had other issues. It's a topic that needs to be discussed at some point. When you're discussing his overall career, you can't leave it. But how did you feel, Kevin, the way he treated Maryland on the way out? When we left for the Big Ten, and he was actively recruiting his other schools, including Louisville to replace us, and screwing us with Pittsburgh and Syracuse and Boston colleges and telling us that Pittsburgh was going to be our rival. How did you feel?

pissed, but let me tell you, because it was on the show that Tommy and I did on middays on 980, where he came on that show in 2013, whatever year it was. He was pushing a book. And, you know, I've told this story many times. PR guy says, you got four minutes with him. And I'm like, okay, 30 minutes later, we were still talking. 17 of it ended up on the air. And then afterwards, as I was getting ready to hang up with him, he said, hey, hey, hold on for a second. and he said, I hear the passion in your voice. I know how much you love Maryland, I can tell. He said, we never wanted them to leave the league.

They were too secretive if they had come to us, if they had been more transparent, if they had gone to Commissioner Swofford, if they had gone to all of us, we would have bailed them out. We would have helped them. Nobody wanted them to leave. It was the way they left that really angers me, because it was on that show that day with Tommy and I, that Shoshchevsky said, and I asked him,

I said, will you play Maryland and schedule Maryland if Maryland wants to schedule you as a non-conference game or in a Big Ten ACC. He said, we will never play Maryland. It ended up being on the crawl that night, that afternoon. People talk about that all the time. It came from our show. That's where he said it. He said, we will never play Maryland.

And then afterwards, Tommy will test. We talked for another 10 to 15 minutes, and he kept saying over and over again, do you think we wanted Maryland to leave the league? He said, do you know how valuable they've been to the league? Do you know how valuable that market was going to be for the eventual ACC network? He said, there are a charter member. He said, do you know how much we enjoyed down here going up to College Park for big games, no matter how rough it was?

He said, and he kept on over and over about how much he loved. Gary because he did. He loved Gary and he loved lefty and the whole thing. But it was the lack of being open and honest. And look, maybe there were business reasons that Maryland had to do it the way they did it. But that's what pissed him off to no end. And it pissed the league off. Now, not everybody held it against Maryland because, you know, Roy and Turgeon were close friends. So Roy played Maryland in that one ACC Big Ten challenge. And then Tony Bennett didn't give a shit. So he played Maryland a couple of times because it was good for both programs, you know, as bordering states and longtime rivals from the league. But yeah, part of Saturday night, and I said this to my wife, I said, you know, this makes me, the Carolina joy at the end of that game, and you could feel it.

Like Franklin Street was probably going. Any Tar Heel fan had to be, I could feel it for him about what that meant for them. And you could see it on social media. They're former players and their fans. I mean, this was big. And it was shocking, too. That's part of it. But I kept saying, God, it would have been great.

And by the way, this is, again, a show of respect to Kay and the program. It would have been great for Maryland and Duke to play this year. Somehow, I don't give a shit where the game had been played. Cameron Indoor, Xfinity, would have been better at Xfinity. But it would have been great on his fair way. Well Tour to have had one last game. But there was no way he would have ever let that happen. Was I upset? Yeah, of course I was upset, but I understood where they were coming from. They think Maryland screwed them.

Fair. But Kevin, the one game I would love to get back from a few years ago was that the game against LSU and the second round of tournament. We were in line to play them in the elite eight. In the elite eight, that was the year they had Zion. They had. ended up getting knocked out in the regional final against Michigan State. We would have had to beat Michigan State in the Sweet 16. That would have been the matchup. We would have a very tough matchup. He played him twice.

We've been a tough matchup, but you're right. He just acted like a scorn lover. Let's us call like it is. And then he went out of his way after we long left the conference to, you know, kind of treat us, you know, as if we had cheated on him. And I don't know. None of us were privy to the exact conversations going on. He had a significant influence as the best term I would describe on the negotiations,

much more so than any other basketball coach did at the time, including Gary. The two parties went there other ways. But I will say this. I don't think I would change the decision right now if I was Maryland. Do you know how much more money we're going to get in five years? Kevin, do you see the money that's about to come in from the Big Ten contract? They're about to get a billion dollars per year in revenues for TV. in that new contract they're going to sign

pretty much within a few months now. They're going to transform our campus. And I don't think that's something. There is something about the Big Ten. We're an elite conference, Kevin. Let's go back to that day. At that moment, in 2004, wherever it was, there were five, maybe six power conferences.

The Big East was already dead at that point. There were five power conferences left. The Big Ten was already number one. The SEC was number two. And then there was a chasm. And you can make an argument where we number three was the PAC 12 number three. You're talking about overall with football included. Overall.

Yeah, yeah. Overall. This is revenues. This is the size of the dog in the fight. Yeah. And the Big 12 was the fifth. There's no doubt about that. And we all kind of, if you go back, Kevin, think about it.

The Big Ten and the SEC are just, the Big Ten right now, Kevin, is who they're so far ahead of where the ACC is going in the future. And by the way, or the competition. goes, it's a tough. The basketball competition, Kevin, we all love basketball. Let's get to the best. You might be nostalgic about the ACC in the 70s and the 80s, and when I got the college park in 97, it was great. There were nine teams. You played everybody twice around Robin. You had a true, true regular season champion, and even though you had to go to Greensboro or Charlotte or somebody else in Carolina for the tournament, nine schools gathered, and one was crowned the champion. And it was a wonderful thing. But what it was when we left Kevin,

it wasn't the same. I don't disagree with you. I don't disagree with you. We had no choice. And to lose seven programs, and the best thing about it, the biggest fear, I think, a lot of Maryland fans, and I speak to a lot of people,

I'm at these games. The lacrosse program was a huge fear. Everybody thought by going to the Big Ten, it was going to kill the lacrosse program. How does that work out? I think John Filman, I've done a pretty fine job, keeping looking at the women's lacrosse does fine.

It's just, we're... It's time. No place does time change but stayed the same than a college campus, Kevin? No other, it's the strangest thing. These kids, the students are always changing. The alumni is always stuck in the past, and it's the strangest thing. But as far as the future, I think the Big Ten is the place to be. I remember Jay Billis, this is years ago as all the conference reshuffling was happening. It was before Maryland left the Big Ten.

And before Syracuse left. No, it's actually, I think it might have been right when Syracuse announced they were coming to the ACC. I forget the chronology of it. But Jay Billis was on the show with me, and he said, what would have prevented all of this was a football playoff much earlier. If they had gone to an actual four or an 18 playoff back in, you know, the mid-90s or the late 90s, none of this conference reshuffling would have ever been necessary. But this is where we are. And to your point, the ACC, as it is now, isn't a league that I necessarily want to be a part of

because it's not the league I remember and get nostalgic about. I can't, you know, the ACC, by the way, is a bad league this year in basketball. But it's not the ACC with Notre Dame and Syracuse and Louisville and Pitt. Okay. And, you know, now what did we just finish? Our eighth year in the Big Ten, I think it is the eighth year that we just finished. I believe so. Nike and I have this conversation all the time. The venues in terms of just night in and night out, and by the way, the coaching, but you know, that can be cyclical. But the fan bases and the venues in the Big Ten are better than in the ACC. The ACC, the old ACC, every venue was great. You know, whether it was Cole or Cameron or Carmichael in the Dean Dome, U. Hall. I mean, Little John, you know, obviously Reynolds was phenomenal. If you go way back,

okay. The Big Ten, every single, including Rutgers, every single road environment, is incredible. Incredible, including ours, you know, in most situations. That's the thing that I think we all underestimated when we made the street. I agree. We all thought that we were Maryland basketball. We were so successful in the ACC, moving to the Big Ten, a cup of cake, briefly, and we all took it for the things I've learned. first of going to Mackey Arena. I mean, who would have thought when we made that switch,

how difficult it would be to be Purdue? Like, you know, we didn't even think about schools like Purdue. Iowa, what Fran has built at Iowa. Wisconsin, for example, I mean, we go to the coal center, Kevin. I remember Melo Trimble getting a shot from the three-point line to walk out there. You go to Michigan State, the Chrysler building in Michigan. These are, I know going to Northwestern isn't a big deal. But I just feel...

Northwestern and Penn State are the only two. Nebraska couldn't give a shit about basketball, and yet that building is packed every single night. I mean, I guess, you know, what else do you have to do in Lincoln? Penn State and Northwestern are the only two places in the league that really aren't into their basketball programs and don't really draw well. Every other venue, and by the way, we haven't done very well at Penn State,

every other venue in the league is phenomenal. And it stacks up to every bit of what the ACC was back in the day, if not better. And you mentioned it. Naki says it all the time. Naki goes, look, Cameron Indoor is great. Assembly Hall's right there with Cameron Indoor. You know, Mackie's unbelievable. And you know what was, I think, really cool when we got into the Big Ten were those first four or five years, and you still see it.

But the first four or five years, Purdue fans, Indiana. fans, Wisconsin fans, Iowa fans, Ohio State, Michigan State fans wanting to see what it was like at Xfinity because they knew how great it could be and how great it was and how many of those conversations, you know, we had with, and by the way, the Big Ten fans are nice. They're all nice people. Great people. But, you know, they were, they, I remember the first time Purdue came down here. It may have been the second or third year. It was a big game. They were. ranked, we were ranked, and we were, I forget where we were. We're probably at Bentley's and there were a bunch of Purdue people in there after the game, and they loved it.

And I didn't even really, I've never been to Mackey, but, you know, Naki says Mackey's incredible. Anyway, we're getting sidetracked. I am with you. I feel much better about being in the Big Ten in basketball now. I do because the ACC's not the same. So I'm just yearning for something that doesn't exist anymore. I understand that. So let's get to getting back and being relevant in the league after a year of not being relevant. Who do you want, who do you think we'll get? Well, I think the Petino rumors from last week that were pretty hot, cooled significantly. Kevin, I've heard from my people, you know, the people I speak with in College Park,

they're looking obviously for an established coach, someone that's going to be in the tournament, they're going to be paying a buyout. The names I'm hearing just don't excite anybody. Does Andy Enfield excite you? Does Ed Cooley excite you? Kevin Willard? Even though I think Kevin Willard might be a phenomenal coach. Out of that bunch, it's – it's – it's – it's – I've tried to explain it to everybody.

This is a 10-year decision we're about to make. You can't get it wrong. And I'm so worried about it because do I trust the people who are making the decisions? And that's the other question, Kevin. Who is making the decision that? The thing I've gleaned the most out of the last few months, usually in these situations, one or two things happen. Usually you have booster step up, they're going to write the check, and they're going to get who they want. Or in this case, I sense it a little different.

I sense the AD, Evan, Damon Evans, he seems to hold the power. He's using those future Big Ten revenues, which they're about to get as his leverage. He's basically using the credit card model of he's going to finance this new coach, and including that $3.3.5 million buyout from Ferturgeon that they're paying over the next five years, using the future revenues, I think he's making all the decisions. And to get in one man's head, I can't do it. So your guess is as good as mine. Yeah, I think that this Patino thing was perhaps more about the university not wanting to go down that path. And however you want to describe that path, I would have been fine with it. I think the, The most important path for them should be how do we get people enthused in this program again? How do we sell tickets and how do we get back into the top 10 and be legitimate final four contenders? And Patino would have answered yes to all of those wishes.

I am an Ed Cooley fan, so I just don't know if Cooley's going to leave Providence. This is where our fan base is a little bit delusional. And I'm not saying in a negative way. It's more of an ignorance thing. You know, Nate Oates and Bruce Pearl, who signed that big deal. And, you know, Musselman, you know, these guys have big time buyouts. They have better situations. You know, Arkansas is a hell of a basketball school.

You know, they've got the Walmart money down there. They have a phenomenal facility. Maryland's one of two power five teams in America. Cal's the other one that doesn't have an actual dedicated practice facility. Turgeon was number 28 on the compensation list. I'm sorry? We are building a practice facility. That is in the work.

Well, it's been in the works, though. It's been in the works of trying to get it funded. So we'll see what happens. But, you know, a lot of these big-time schools, we like to fancy ourselves as top 10 to top 15 job, and their 90% of the job would certainly fall under that label. The problem is the other 10%. compensation, AD, practice facilities.

There's just some things there that I'm not sure everybody understands are things where an Ed Cooley might say, yeah, you know, they take care of me up here. This is a great situation. And I'm from here too. And I just, they may end up, I hate to say, settle for an Andy Enfield because Enfield's done a really good job at USC. I think Cooley and Willard are both better coaches. than Enfield in terms of basketball coaches.

And you need to find a really good basketball coach for this league. Because the league has great coaches in it, great coaches. I mean, you know, you see it night in and night out. Like people that aren't even paying attention to how good Steve Pichel is, you know, at Rutgers. I don't think Greg Gards ever gotten the do that he deserves of being an elite coach. And then you've got the Givens, obviously, in Painter and Izzo. You know, Underwood's done a phenomenal job. There are very few coaches in the league that aren't really, really good.

I mean, there were some new ones this year. The guy from Minnesota Johnson and then Penn State's coach, Shrewsbury. Holtman's a hell of a coach. You know, Collins is a decent coach. They just don't get players to Northwestern. But you got to find a really good coach more than anything else. Because you've got to win. Absolutely.

Winning is the only thing than that. Kevin, the only thing. thing that puts people on those seats besides Penn State and Taylor Swift night is winning. Unless you're handing out, lend by, if Jersey's every night, winning is, I'm there every night. It's the only thing that drives people into that bill. It's the only thing that matters. And we've always, there's always been these whispers the last year, is Under Armour holding us back. Bruce Pearl is an Under Armour School at Auburn. He seems to win, you, attract the top talent down there. At Auburn, at Auburn. At Auburn. I think they push

I think they push, you know, they're on the edge. There are no limits anymore, Kevin. We're living in a new hole. I understand that. And everyone in college park, when I bring it off. That started this year. They swear to me. Everyone in college parks swears to me that our NIL program is as competitive as any of the top ones in the program.

Do I believe that? No. But I haven't seen all the numbers yet. But they swear that our kids are getting paid just as much money that other kids are. But that's going to be the bottom line. Are we going to pay? Eric Ayala. He's got a fifth year of eligibility left.

What do you think he's going next year? Why don't we pay him to stay? I don't understand. This is a new world. And we would be in the tournament next week if we had Daryl Moresell. We've spoken about this off the air, and that was the biggest mistake on this season, Kevin. And where are these reporters? And I've asked them, I don't know what goes.

There's a little media area. It's right behind the bench. It's, I don't know, everyone knows where it is. These people are, you could give them crumbs and they wouldn't find the cookies. I swear, Kevin. I have no, I've got as little respect as I have for some of the people who run our athletic department. I have even less respect for the people who cover our athletic department because there's nobody out there. Does Eric Ayala, he's got the COVID year left?

Yes, he does. Of course he does. He's a fourth year senior right now. He was flirting with the NBA last year. Let's be honest, is Eric Ayala going to get paid to go to the NBA next year? No. The most money he can get. is either going to Europe, going overseas somewhere.

Why don't we pay him to stay and win in college park? Why don't we become the innovators in this game? It just baffles me. And I said, getting back to more. Well, right now, you don't have a coach. Well, again, whoever that coach is, I hope he's the type of guy who's smart enough to keep a kid like Iowl in the program

and not let the kid go. I really do. All right, I want to switch subjects real quickly. Who's Washington going to get as their quarterback for 2022? That's a $64,000 question in D.C. right now. What did you take? What did you, before you answer, you texted me last week, you were in Florida, and you were texting me how much baseball talk, a labor dispute talk, am I doing on my show?

Why did you do that? So one of my good buddies, Christopher Mad Dog Russo, who will be hosting a show coming coming up shortly on Sirius XM. He is a huge baseball guy. Of course. I don't know. He's been on first take the last few weeks, Kevin. With Stephen A.

You have to watch him. Him and Stephen A together. Watch them every Wednesday on first take. It's the best sports debate television show you'll get it. These two will go at it, and it just, they put them to the last three Wednesdays. It's every Wednesday. It's great. Anyway, dog is obviously a big baseball guy.

He hosts a show in the MLB Network. and he last week was infuriated that the top topic in Washington, D.C. Sports Talk Radio wasn't the MLB contract talk. And I told dogs, listen, all they care about is the Washington quarterback situation. Don't that's all they care about. And so he didn't believe me, so I sent you a text to confirm. And do you want to tell the fans what his response was? What was his response? Hold on. Did you send me his response?

Oh, I absolutely sent me his response. I'll read it verbatim for you right here. His response was, and nobody outside of D.C. gives a crap about who the walking and quarterback is. Exact quote. Sorry, dog. I didn't need to do that, but that was his exact quote. Yeah, well, you know, I get it. It's like, look, when I was listening to him and Mike,

on WFAN, it was captivating because they were so good, but they would be talking about one Met at bat from the night before for three hours in July. Like one at bat. It would be for three hours. Now, they were so good at it that it was really great radio, but do you think of the rest of America cared about the MET game from the night before and the one at bat? Come on.

No, no, no, it's so funny. said that Kevin, as a kid, I thought the exact same thing. You did too much baseball talk, too much baseball talk, too much baseball talk, but he, he, he, and it drove me crazy to kick you up and hear other things. And they treat baseball up in New York and Boston. It's like a religion, and it's been interesting. I've got to say that one of the greatest things over the last 20 years of living here has seen the growth of the nationals.

The BC loves baseball. That is Everybody talks about the NBA being the number two sport in our country. It's hogwash. MLB is by far and away the number two sport, especially here in D.C. And it's sad what's going to happen over the next few years of the nationals aren't going to spend money because they're the learners to keep and they've gotten there once in a championship and squeak.

But what has been built, Kevin, that's been wonderful to witness. And I do think it's come at the extent of football people. Yeah, I know. but for three hours, you know, it was a John Oleruded bat from the night before in their game against the Phillies. Like he fouled off eight pitches in a row and hung in there and finally batted one to left field for a single. For three hours, that's what you would get. They were great at it. They were the best, but the rest of America didn't give a shit.

Trust me. And the best also, you throw in the cars like Doris, Sarigo Park, Jerome from the Bronx. They would debate a hypothetical of, you know, should the manager have gone to the left instead of the righty, and they would play out for an hour, two hours. What would have could happen? And it's what we do with football. It's what we do with the football team in this town, even though fewer and fewer people actually care.

But they, you know, you can talk about a game. You know this. You and I've had this conversation. We can talk about Sunday's game on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, down to, I mean, we can debate the fourth and one decision for, you know, calls lined up the minute I get in until the minute I go off. Could take calls all day on the fourth and one on Monday and Tuesday. And then when you get to Thursday and Friday, then everybody's got it figured out on what the best game plan should be. See, the big thing in what you said, baseball is popular.

It's become popular and they've done a great job with the team. But there's a big difference. In this town, people think they know football. People think they know the best game plan against what they're going to face, you know, the Eagles 3-4 defense on Sunday. They've got the best ideas on how to do that. And then afterwards, they know exactly what the coach should have done to avoid a loss. There is some of that in baseball in this town, no doubt,

but it's not as ingrained as it is with football. because baseball wasn't here for 34 years? No, that thousand percent. Everybody is the armchair quarterback, coach, and general manager all in one for three hours every Sunday. It's incredible. Where do you think, when Wilson, with the news that leaked over the weekend last week,

that Wilson's clearly not leaving or doesn't seem to be leaving and not interested, or he might have been interested, but it doesn't seem like he's coming. Who's the next one on your list right now? Who's on, who's the, when you're called, guys are calling in today, who's the top of the wish list right now? I think that they, I think that Wilson's plan A, but I don't think it'll happen, but I do think that they will go after Watson. I do. I think that they will go after Watson.

Let's walk, can we walk through that real quickly? Sure. Let's think about the hypothetical. You're going to tell me that the commanders, whatever they're called now, with all the problems that they have swirling over the franchise, are going to go after Deshaunee. are going to go after to Sean Watson while he's got 21 women accusing him of things that are even more worse and more heinous than anything the Washington Post

has ever reported in regards to Snyder. Yeah. How is that going to fly? Because they wake up to bad PR every day. It can't get any worse. What's the point? I mean, the only answer, the only answer is to win.

They are, every single day, they wake up to people hate, them, people criticizing them. And usually it's totally justifiable. And not usually, almost always, it's justifiable. The bottom line is their only way out is to win. I totally agree with that. So I think they're going to go for it.

And I think they're going to take the hits that come with it. And then, you know, when the season starts, if Deshawn Watson's are starting quarterback and they're six and two, they're going to basically tell everybody to go suck it. because that's the only thing that matters. They have a business that's hemorrhaging. Now, it'll never, when I say hemorrhaging, I'm talking about those other revenue sources after the TV split.

Okay, they are in as bad as situation as any team. They've become Jacksonville, you know, from an attendance standpoint. So they've got to fix that. 31st last year in the league. Yeah, they got to fix that. If not, they'll be, you know, they'll be selling off home games to play them at neutral sites. So, yeah, they've got to win. And I don't think, you know, you can't really fall off the curb, and that's where they are right now.

There's as low as low gets. And by the way, that's not, you know, meant to be disrespectful to all of those alleged victims. And there are, you know, there are 50 plus of them now and maybe more coming. It was a terrible culture with terrible people. but they've got, you know, Ron Rivera's got to win, Jason Wright's got to sell tickets, and the only way you're doing that is to win. Well, the reason you know that's a smart plan, and I can't believe I'm saying the word smart plan with the Redskins in the same sentence,

but I agree with you. Watson will win, and every single fan in Philadelphia wants to do that same move. And that's when your competitors want to make that move, you've got to be into the punch sometimes. So I do agree from a football standpoint. point, it's a smart move. I'm not going to disagree with that. What is there, they must have a timeline as far as when they're expecting the legal issues to possibly be clarified. It's not going to happen before free agency starts in a week. So are they going to take the chance, Kevin, that they're going to bring him in on the hopes and prayers that his legal issues are clear up?

No, no, no, no. You can't, you can't deal for Watson until you know that he's going to actually be able to play for you. And until the, until the grand job, jury, which I think April 1st is the date, decides to either indict them on criminal charges or not indict them. You can't trade for them. You have to wait for at least that grand jury to say there will be no criminal charges. And then you've got to have really good insight and intel on the civil cases and how they're going to get settled, because it's been explained to me that you get into these civil cases, and one deposition could lead to a judge reopening criminal charges. So it's a very, very tricky situation here with him, with everybody that's interested.

But, you know, I'm basing that off of he's been clear. The league's not going to suspend him for a year. They're going to suspend him for four to six games. And now, you know, will Washington be a big player? Will they offer up two ones in Chase Young or three ones and Tim Settle? yeah, I think they will. I don't know if he'll come here. He's got a no trade clause.

I don't know how many teams and how many teams they'll be competing with. How many teams will be interested in how many teams legitimately they'll be in competition with. But they are in the NFC. Houston may be looking to trade him to an NFC team, although Miami was always the team last year. I wonder why Chris Greer, the Dolphins GM, totally called it off last week and said, No, we're not interested anymore. I wonder what they know.

But we'll see. That's exactly what I was thinking. What are the dolphins know that you don't know? If they close the book completely, a guy who was willing to, what we also don't know, maybe Greer wanted to stick with Tua, and Flores was the one who was dropping the We Want watching rumors. That's something we don't know about Miami. And maybe McDaniels just totally on board.

By the way, did you watch A. McDaniels press conference last week? The breath of fresh air that was Mike McDaniels at the combine? I didn't watch it, but I just, he's such an interesting guy that I should probably go back and watch it. Yeah. He's a fascinating guy, but I'll give you this, though. He's in a division right now where Josh Allen's going to run for the next few years. Bill Belichick's still there with the Patriots. And the other two guys are Sala and McDaniel.

They both have four years left. McDaniel got a four-year contract. Sala had a five-year, got four years left. They're really good friends. They come from the same coaching tree. The odds are both of them will not survive the next six years, five to six years. Which one are you betting gets fired first? My Robert Sala or Mike McDaniel, who hasn't coached you in yet?

Got already, Kyle Shanahan with a coaching tree. Great coaching tree. I have no. I don't know because I don't know anything about your quarterback. yet. And I don't really think we know enough about Tua yet. You have to tell me which of those are either one of those two quarterbacks going to end up being legit, because that's the coach that stays. Tula doesn't have an arm. Two is a guy that when everything around him is going right, very good defense, he has a very good defense, and he's going up against a weak defense. He can win

you seven games in a row he did this year. He won't beat the crappy teams in the NFL. But if you go back and watch that game against the Jets, he threw two picks, and they had two more floaters that should have been picked, including a pick six was five minutes to go with a seven-point lead. He doesn't have the arm strength, and there's no chance, and you know what, that I would put my life in the line with Tua. But we've seen Jimmy Garapolo, another guy would put my life in the line, and a guy like McDaniel and Shanahan squeeze water out of a rock in. So I do think it'll be just back again five years. We'll see how they do it down there.

I think he'll get rid of Tua and find him the quarterback down the line. But who's your next thought? Wentz, Trubisky? Who else are you? I'm not excited. I want them to think high ceiling. I don't care about floor. And Gropolo doesn't have a high ceiling.

Wentz doesn't have a high ceiling. You know, some people are trying to argue that Trubisky does. I think Malik Willis in this draft has a very high ceiling. It doesn't mean that I think he's going to. he's going to make it, I just think he's a very high ceiling. That's where I would be taking my big cuts. I would be taking my big cuts on high ceiling guys and not worrying about the floor. Because if you don't land on one of these guys, you're never going to have a sustained winner.

We know what can happen occasionally, you know, the Nick Foles, the Garapolos getting there, the Jared Goss, but you've got to have exceptional coaches and exceptional teams, and then you've got to get a couple of breaks here and there. The bottom line is you don't win 39 games over three years in the regular season like Green Bay did unless you have somebody like Aaron Rogers. So that's the goal. That should be the goal for everybody. You know, the one and done format, just like in the NCAA tournament,

the best team doesn't always win the national championship. The best team doesn't always win the Super Bowl. You could debate that the Rams weren't the best overall team in the NFL this year. But, you know, to put yourself into a position year and year out, to have a chance in the postseason with a decent seed playing some games at home, you got to have a great quarterback. You have to. You cannot win that league consistently without a great.

It's proven. Go down the list of coaches and quarterbacks. If you don't have a quarterback, you're not going to last in that way. It's just a reality. Would you trade up for Malik Willis or are you content sitting there and taking the gamble? How high on Malik Willis are you? Well, I think they've got to swing big. And so if Willis, and by the way, wouldn't surprise me at all by the time we get to the end of April,

if Willison Pickett and Corral are all now scheduled to go higher and people are trading up, I think they've got to be aggressive. Now, obviously, if they acquire a Watson or a Wilson, you won't have the first round pick. You're out of the rookie deal, clearly. But if you end up signing a free agent quarterback that doesn't cost you anything other than like a Tribisky or a Marriota or a Bridgewater or a Dalton, then I think you have to draft the guy that you think has the highest ceiling. Now, I would not recommend that they draft a guy that they don't like,

that they don't think has a high ceiling. If they come to the conclusion, Martin Mayhew and Marty Herney and Ron Rivera and Eric Stowe, all the people in their personnel group, if they come to the conclusion that this truly is an awful quarterback draft and nobody's got a high enough ceiling for us to take that high, and they don't want to go down that road? Well, that's their choice. But I think Willis does have a high enough ceiling where he would be intriguing to me. If I'm sitting there holding on to Teddy Bridgewater or Marcus Marriota or Mitch Trubisky, I am thinking about trading for Malik Willis at 11 or even trading up for him if I have to do it.

Would you hand the keys to the Carter Willis if you draft him? Do you think, not you? I should ask that. I know you would probably hand. Do you think Rivera is willing in his third year, you can say make a break year, maybe say he has another year of rope? Do you think he's willing to hand the keys to a rookie quarterback week one next year? I don't.

Well, if it's Taylor Heineke and Malik Willis, then Malik Willis has a chance to start. as a rookie. If they sign Mitch Trubisky or Marcus Marriota and they draft Malik Willis with a high ceiling, I guarantee you the talk you will hear is that Malik, we love his upside. We love Trubisky. We don't think he's realized his upside. We got two guys now. And he'll talk about some sort of competition, but Trubisky is going to start and they're going to sit Willis. Like if that were to happen. Now, we've learned enough if you take the Mahomes example out of the equation. These rookie quarterbacks that get drafted in the top half of the draft, if they don't play in their first five games, it's because they sucked. It's because they weren't good enough.

So I know that there's all this discussion about Willis playing at Liberty. He's not ready. He needs a year to sit behind a veteran. Okay. But if Trubisky's two and two and has thrown six picks and three touchdowns, I hope Willis, you know, is ready to go. Would I start him? Yeah, if it's just him and Heineke. But, you know, that's again, when I say high ceiling, Hayden, high ceiling means also for me there may be a super low floor. I wouldn't fear the floor. But they could draft him and find out, ooh, we made a mistake.

But they'll have to determine that. But I would draft the guy with the biggest ceiling. What else you got for me? I totally agree. I'm the Redskins last, though, Commander. Where do you expect to be going against in five, in seven years, I guess, whenever the, you know, where is your preferred site and where do you expect to be going? Well, you know this. I'm less passionate about all this than I used to be.

But RFK, D.C. is the only location that would satisfy the masses. The RFK site is perfect for it. If it ends up down in Frickin Dumfries, you know, and there was a story in the post yesterday about how, you know, the Virginia lawmaker, you know, in sort of being okay with committing about a billion dollars in tax credits to the project, which would be about a third of what Snyder needs to build the stadium. They're now finding out that Snyder essentially wants to build something dubbed Snyder City, not by him, but by one lawmaker. On the waterfront.

Yeah, where it's retail, in Virginia, retail and hotels and casinos. And look, if you put the stadium in Frickin Dumfries, you know, you're going to, you're going to, going to need to make a weekend out of it. You might as well have hotels nearby because people are going to have to stay the night. It's going to be like a college football weekend. You get in on Friday, you check into the hotel, you go out and you party. And then Saturday is not game day because it's Sunday. Maybe you get in on Saturday night, but you're going to need something because it's going

to be too long of a drive. It would be just like them to put this stadium in Woodbridge or Dumfries. I mean, seriously. I mean, it's unbelievable that somebody didn't step up and stand up in the meeting when this got discussed and say, yeah, take those two off your list, please. They're non-starters. I don't care how much the state of Virginia is going to give us. You know, the Sterling thing, especially if you've got mass transit, is a little bit different.

Woodbridge and Dumfries. I mean, come on, man. Those are the places, no offense to the people that live there. it takes forever to get there, and then you're almost in Richmond when you get to Dumfries. You're certainly almost in Fredericksburg. I couldn't agree more. You're moving 90 minutes, two hours outside the city,

and that's without rush hour traffic on a Thursday night if you have a week Monday night game. It seems ridiculous on paper. But then you think the Niners moved to Santa Claus. You see what's going on around the league, and you realize it's a much higher probability. Yeah, but. But, but, but,

But Santa Clara, when you go further south in Silicon Valley, you still have massive population density. And those are all Northern Californians who love the 49ers. Look, if I were somebody that lived in San Francisco or, you know, somewhere just over the Bay Bridge, I would be upset that I've got to drive to Santa Clara to see the 49ers. Don't get me wrong. But Santa Clara and Dumfries is not apples to apples. I can't wait I think he's angle

I know he's angling I know he's angrily to the draft by the way he's going to find out in a few days maybe a few weeks here about the draft in 24-25 that announcement's coming they're kind of holding DC's one of three cities

you know up for the host the draft that'll be fascinating but Kevin I want to getting back to the topic that we started with before you let me go 83 you probably watch the game Carolina went to

Cameron and Jordan put up 32 and embarrassed Duke. How many other times have you seen, you know, has it happened, how many more time are you getting back, how many times in your lifetime that you've seen Duke lose at home in that type of a moment? Oh, I mean, I don't know. I mean, we beat him on Shane Batti A senior night.

That was as sweet as sweet gets. I mean, I can remember just being as excited and three. See, that's the thing, you know, because we keep coming back to Duke. And by the way, winning at Cameron, because nobody won at Cameron as much as Gary did. I don't think. I mean, Dean probably did, but I don't know that Roy did.

I think Gary might have more wins of Cameron indoor than Roy has. But there was just something so, something so sweet and satisfying about winning in that building. I mean, Gravis did it? Did Gravis do it twice? Gravis may have won at Cameron Indoor twice. That's a great question. He did not win. He won at home.

They split in his Gravis' his senior year. We won the conference. We co-conference championship. Yeah. He Gravis won at home that last game.

We lost at Cameron. So I got to say, yeah, but I think in 2009, I'm looking it up, I think we won, because I think Akisie had a big game. And we won 2009, 2010.

Hold on. At Duke. At Duke, we got blown out, and then we beat them, obviously, to win the ACC. regular season, co-regular season.

But the year before 2008-2009, oh, we got blown out at Duke that year. Okay, so now we go back to 2007, 2008. I guarantee you we won at Duke this year, that year. We lost at home. Oh, no, we lost that year too, my fault. 07 did we win at Duke? Yeah, we won at Duke in 2007.

We swept Duke in 07. In 06, that was the, that was the, is that the Chris McCrae suspended year, maybe? I don't know. The last moment, my last memory is Charles Mitchell's ball popping out of that bucket. The last time we were there. That's my last memory about Cameron was Charles, one of the biggest upsets we could have had, and that ball just kind of popped out. But, you know, I'm going to miss him.

You know, it's funny. As he goes, it's a chapter in the sport. You turn on the page. There's no one going to be ever, you can't replace a guy like that, Kevin. It's, you know, Jay Wright, maybe he's the next type of guy, but it's such a, the memories this guy's helped create, even though we can't stand them. It's been fun. That's what sports is all about. Hold on.

I just, the 2011 team, Gary's last team. They beat him in the A. Didn't they beat him in the ACC tournament? Gary's last team. I can't remember. The Jordan Williams team. No, they lost to him in the ACC tournament, but did they beat him during the course of the year that year?

Jordan Williams was a rave if I would compete. No, no, no, no, no. I'm getting some of these games confused. Yeah, the 2011 team, by the way, I think if Jordan Williams had come back at 2012, Gary would have come back the following year? Has Gary ever gotten the itch again by a year? chance. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think he would, I'd still think today if something came up locally, like the AU job or something like that, and they said, hey, come on down and

coach a team. I think he'd do it. He looks great. He's in great shape. Why not us? Yeah. I know. That's a thought price I've had for months now. Why? Well, we're in a different, you know, I know he hates recruiting. We all know that. Why can't we surround him with top flight recruiters, a boatload of cash, and say, Gary, just do your thing. He's the best coach. He's the best coach available. Anyone have a better answer for Maryland? Hands up. Anyone have a better name? It blows my mind that we don't think outside the box in College Park. And that box that we have, it's small, and it closes every day. It drives me crazy, Kevin. I love you. This was fun. Hayden and Virginia. If you know the voice, Hayden's called into my show plenty of times in the past,

but he is a regular on Chris Mad Dog Rousseau's XM Serious show. What do you do? Do you call every day? No, no, no, no, no. I try to call once or twice a week. At this point, I'm just, I mean, you've got the hotline, right? You got the hotline. I do, but I don't use it, to be honestly. But they put you, every time you call, they put you right in there. Of course. I mean, I've got, I mean, if I want, yes. No, that's, do I wait. I wait some days. I can know. I wait some days, I can know.

There are a lot of days, Kevin. I like to react. I like to hear what the other callers I want to say. So I'll say, dog, hey, leave me out for a while. You know, I've got nothing going on today. Let me hold, but I'll listen. Most of the time, it's his show, Kevin. You're just like when you're host, you know how this goes. You're at the mercy of him, so there'll be time.

I wait two hours. It's all to him. Yeah, but he loves you. He loves you as a caller. He loves you as a caller. I think what makes dog one of the greatest hosts in the country is that he recognizes someone who is able to debate with him, and he gives you the rope, and he allows me to have a little fun with him, whereas, you know, a new caller, he doesn't know where you're going to go, and it just, it's difficult, but that's, he is, again, I've listened to him and Mike my whole life. Mike's great, too, I don't want to make it seem like Mike. But what makes dog so special is his ability that, you know what, just like Stephen A, you can go back at him and pounded him a little bit, and he's going to come right back at you.

I always say, Kevin, it's like getting in the ring of the bear. If you're going to poke that bear, you'd be ready. You know what I'm saying? There's a wounded animal coming at you. Thanks for doing this, man. We'll talk soon. I love you, Kevin. See everyone in College Park.

I'll buy it anyone ever see you. 118, come down, row two. Beer and food, always on me. hard to miss him. Hayden in Virginia. He's usually pretty enthusiastic. Just ask everybody in his section. Go talk. All right, man, I'll talk to you. Thanks. Talk you soon.

All right. That's it for the show today. Back tomorrow with Tommy, who will be back from Florida.