The Kevin Sheehan Show - Washington Trade Back Report

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

Kevin opened with NFL Draft and a report that the Commanders are on of five teams looking to move back in the first round. He talked Caps playoff scenarios, Anthony Davis' press conference, and the Nats as well. Steve Sands/NBC-Golf Channel jumped on to talk Masters. Ben Raby joined Kevin to talk Caps and whether or not Alex Ovechkin played his last home game yesterday.       For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match   Our listeners get the Harry’s Plus Trial Set for only $10 at https://www.Harrys.com/[INSERT CODE]  #Harryspod   For all your garden needs: fastgrowingtrees.com/sheehan Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. He is Kevin. I've got two guests with me on today's show. Steve Sands will join me next segment. He's just back from Augusta.

We'll save all the golf for Steve. But I thought the Masters was highly entertaining, especially yesterday, with Sheffler bearing down on Rory. Justin Rose at one point, having a two-shot lead. But Rory goes back to back. After that long drought of not winning a major,

he wins at Augusta last year and then does it again. Yesterday, just the fourth guy to win the Masters back-to-back. Jack did it, Faldo did it, Tiger did it, and now Rory has done it. But Steve will join me to discuss not only Rory's round, but a lot more about the weekend at Augusta. So we'll do that. segment, followed by Ben Rabi, who will join me to talk about the caps and their playoff

hopes, which are still alive, and whether or not we watched Alex Ovechkin's final home game yesterday after 21 seasons in D.C. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, Window Nation, 86690 Nation, WindowNation.com. If you need new windows, please let them know that I told you about them and they will take really good care of you. So I was out late last week and through the weekend, got down to Florida to play some golf with my dad. And I was reading over the weekend from Dane Bruegler's draft preview. Dane Bruegler, who writes for the athletic for several years now, has done a draft preview called The Beast. The Beast is the name of his draft preview because he literally breaks down 2,500 plus prospects. I think this year, actually, it may have been like 2,700 plus players. No,

I did not read the whole thing. I barely got through his first round guys. But I read something this morning that he apparently said in an interview about his draft evaluation and about, you know, sort of the industry of draft evaluators, which by the way, let me just make this point now, is different than the mock drafters. Mock drafting is just projecting which players go to which teams, you know, in the first round as an example. The draft evaluators out there, they are evaluating the prospects as what they will be as NFL players.

And there are a lot of people that do that, as we know. And Dane Bruegler has done a really good job with this overall, in-depth draft preview. But he said the following in an interview over the weekend. He said, quote, guys who watch college football and watch players every single week and get to see the flow of the season have a way different opinion on prospects than the guys who watch no ball and just watch some cutups in March and April.

I read that quote and I'm like, yeah, spot on. It obviously struck a chord with me for those that have. listened long enough, you know that I've said something similar in the past, maybe even in the last month or so. It's never hard for me to identify among these draft evaluators, these draft experts, so-called. It's never really hard for me to identify the guy that actually watches college football versus the guy, you know, who doesn't, and then talks about, you know, these players in the context of the NFL football. draft but doesn't really speak to, you know, games and moments.

And I just think they're vastly different perspectives. Dane Bruegler agrees. Now, let me just say this, because I don't know if Dane said this or not. I don't think that one way versus the other produces, you know, better results. Like, I don't think people who watch a lot of college football and then fancy themselves to be draft experts get it right more often than those. that just sort of tune in beginning with the indie combine and then watch a bunch of highlight reels and read a bunch of stuff

and then make their own opinions based on that. I mean, I think everybody basically gets it wrong two-thirds of the time, minimum, including, of course, the teams themselves. Again, I watch a lot of college football and I have opinions on players that I've watched. Then, you know, after the season, you can't watch every college football game,

and especially those players from smaller schools, that, you know, you don't watch as much during the regular season. You have to do what some guys do for every player, and that is you got to watch, you know, some highlight reels, some film, and then look at the indie scores, look at the RAS scores, and read a little bit about the player to have an opinion. But I've always found it so different. Louis Riddick and Dan Orlovsky, I think I've used this example before.

It is so obvious to me that Dan Orlovsky just doesn't watch a lot of college football. And Lewis Riddick does. I mean, Lewis Riddick calls college games every weekend. He follows the sport. He watches, you know, games. He prepares for games that he's going to call. He has just a different perspective all of the time, you know, versus guys like Orlovsky. I've noticed that.

over the years. I actually didn't used to be a Lewis Riddick fan for whatever reason. I think he's too serious sometimes. I think he, there's not a whole hell of a lot of personality necessarily, but I think his information is always solid. And that goes for his NFL, you know, opinions during this season. I don't hold it against the guys who don't watch college football, because many of them can't. You know, they're covering the NFL. NFL, they're covering it intensely, guys who cover the league or the reporters who cover just one team. They can't really follow and watch a lot of college football because those games are on Saturdays.

And when you're covering one team or you're covering the league, you're working on Saturdays or you're traveling on Saturdays or, you know, if you're covering one team and that team's at home that week, sometimes Saturday is your only day off during the week. week. But Dane Bruegler's right, man. And I know this because so many times as a huge college football watcher, I feel so much differently than the guy who watched, you know, just the combine, a few highlights and read something about the player. I think my perspective is deeper, but I don't think it matters because knowing more about a player's college career doesn't always help project that player to the NFL level.

You know, everybody gets most of it wrong regardless of your perspective. Yeah. Interesting comments from Bruegler, and I'm going to get through a lot more of his beast. It's worth it. He does a really good job with his write-ups on players, and I got through much of the first round. So did you see what Albert Breer wrote this morning in his Sports Illustrated NFL column?

He was talking about teams that would be looking to trade up versus those who might be looking to trade back. And he said in terms of teams looking to move down, count the Cardinals, Titans, Giants, Browns, and commanders among those already looking at trying to drop down in the order to accumulate draft capital. He writes, the problem for those five teams is finding teams willing to move up. And he says there are two players that may cause teams to be interested in moving up, giving, you know, Arizona, Tennessee, the Giants, Cleveland, and Washington, perhaps opportunities to trade back. The two players are Arvel Reese, assuming he writes that Bailey is off the board at number two.

He writes about Reese. His value from team to team will differ, but the high end is really, really high. And with this new genre of off the ball, on the ball, Swiss Army knife linebackers, Micah Parsons, Abdul Carter, Jalen Walker, Jihad Campbell, more teams have a home for guys with this profile. So he writes,

if you're scared off by Ruben Bain Jr.'s arm length, and by the way, there's more on Bain Jr., including some very troubling news potentially. I'll get to that. If not on the show today, I'll get to it tomorrow. But he writes, if you are scared off by Bain Jr.'s arm length and some are, the drop from Reese to the next rusher might be massive,

assuming Bailey is gone. And then he writes, the other player who could inspire a trade is Jeremiah Love, based on the sort of difference maker he can be for an offense and the high volume nature of the impact he can make. Of course, a team would have to be comfortable valuing a running back that way, but he's very much in the Seek-Eleat, Bejohn-Robinson, Christian McCaffrey, class as a tough, rugged inside runner with the ability as a receiver to stay on the field in all situations. he writes, who would trade up to select one of those two? He said, the saints who pick eighth have shown a willingness to get aggressive in the past, in the past, excuse me, and have a pass rush need. And then he writes, there's also Dallas.

They could view Reese like they did Parsons in 2021. But he concludes this section of his Monday morning column on Sports Illustrated by writing. At this point, for teams picking that high, it's going to be challenging to find partners to move into that range. It's more likely that we'll get more movement in the middle of the first round than we do at the top of the first round. Yeah, by the way, in Brueglars, Dane Bruegler's overall draft preview The Beast, he's got Jeremiah Love as his second best player behind Reese. So he sees it the way Breer is reporting it.

I don't see Love that way. I don't. I don't see him worthy of the number seven pick in the draft or higher than that. I certainly see Jeremiah Love as a first roundback and a guy who's going to be a very good NFL back. But I've said it a million times. If you're going to take a player at that position that high, you better be sure that he's Sequin Barclay or Bejan Robinson or Christian McCaffrey. and I don't personally think that's what he's going to be. All right.

Caps and their playoff hopes. Let me just read to you from the Russian Machine Never Breaks.com. They do a great job of covering hockey and the caps in particular. And here are the playoff scenarios for the Washington Capitals. Now, the Caps have one game left tomorrow night against Columbus. They are out of the wild card race. They can no longer get in via one of the two wild card spots. Those have been wrapped up by Boston and Ottawa, although Boston and Ottawa are going to be the two wildcard teams.

Washington's chasing down Philadelphia for the third spot in the first spot in the two wildcard teams. the Metropolitan Division. They are currently one point behind Philadelphia. Philadelphia has two games left against Carolina tonight and then against Montreal tomorrow night. Both of those games in Philly, Washington closes the season at Columbus. But they've moved ahead of Columbus. And the Islanders were eliminated.

Detroit was eliminated. The caps have won three in a row. They've been playing very well here at the end of the season. And let me just mention after I mention all of their scenarios to get into the postseason, if they were to get in as the three-seed in their division, they would play Pittsburgh in the first round. After the game yesterday, some of the penguins, including Crosby, were kind of hanging around to give OV, you know, a nice respectful send-off. But he went right to the locker room. He didn't want any part of it because there's a chance.

if Washington gets in that they could play Pittsburgh in a best of seven first round. So here's how the caps get in. Here's the key, all right? The Flyers right now with two games left versus the caps, one game, and a one-point lead, they've got 94 points, the caps have 93, all they need are two points combined in their final two games to clinch a playoff spot. So if they win one of the final two games, that's two points they're in. Or if they were to lose an overtime in both games, that's two points.

They would get one point each, and that would clinch a playoff spot. So Washington needs Philadelphia to gain less than two points in their final two games, meaning losing both and one of them in regulation to have a chance to beat Columbus tomorrow night and snagged that third spot. Got it. So the Flyers, if they were to end up with just one point or less in their final two games and the Caps beat Columbus tomorrow night, the Caps snagged that third spot. They would win any tiebreaker with Philadelphia based on total wins in the season,

and they would play Pittsburgh in the first round. Now, if Philadelphia loses both games in regulation and Columbus beats the caps, Columbus would actually also make the playoffs over Philadelphia. So there you go. You need Carolina to win tonight, or, worst case, win in overtime, win in regulation or overtime, and forcefully to get no points or just one point, and then you're alive going into the final night of the season. The NBA's regular season is over.

The Wizards ended up with the worst record in the NBA. Good job by them. 17 and 65. finished with 10 straight losses and 26 of their last 27 games. Yes, they lost 26 of their final 27 games. At one point this year, back in mid-February, they were 16 and 39, and then end up 17 and 65. So Anthony Davis held a press conference, a season-ending press conference. And there's a lot of talk about Anthony Davis's season-ending press conference.

Because he said something in answering a David Aldridge question that has a lot of people talking about, you know, what he meant by what he said. So I'm going to play David Aldridge's question. is question. And then you're going to hear the Anthony Davis answer. And I'm going to talk a little bit about it. We'll save some of it for tomorrow with Tommy. I know he's going to want to weigh in on this for sure. But this was Anthony Davis season-ending press conference for a team he has not yet played minute one for, but has collected this season, some of it from Washington, $54 million. He'll make $58 million next year. This was the Aldridge question and the Anthony Davis answer.

While these questions get answered, do you, can you, do you at least say, okay, you got me next year? Yeah. Yeah. I'm on the contract. You know, like, I love my money. No, but like, I mean, the thing is that you can add any guys here, you know, like, I've always since day one, the trade happened, like,

I'll say day two, Detroit happened. I can't say day one. But day two, when the trade happened, I got here, like I'm, like,

like I said, this place is not what people make it seem. And so, you know, it's a testament to the organization, to the coaching staff, you know, the players,

you know, the media guy, like everybody here, you know, and I think, um, I want to be able to have fun where I am.

I want to be able to compete where I am. I want to be able to learn where I am, and this organization has that. They teach. Who knows? I want to get out too much. Things have to get figured out, but I don't want to do this again. I'll say that. I don't want to do this again, but things have to get figured out.

Things have to get figured out. That followed, you know, talk about. talking about, well, yeah, I'm going to be here next year. I'm under contract. I love my money. By the way, he is under contract next year, $58.45 million for just next year. And then in 2027, 2028, he has a player option for $62.8 million. That's a player option. So his contract says now, next year is the only year he has to be here. Then he can. controls beginning in 2027, 2028 at age 34, where he ends up going. Look, I'm not even sure why he's holding a press conference.

He didn't play at all. We've heard from him already. We heard from him after the trade. I know he is, you know, jumped on podcasts here and there and said primarily positive things about the organization, about the city. You know, he said that when he arrived here after the trade, maybe not day one, but day two. You know, he started to realize that this place isn't what people make it seem and make no mistake. This place is to many in the NBA.

This is, you know, Siberia. I mean, it's crazy to think that about a city like ours because Washington's such a great place to live, a great place to raise a family. there's so many great things about our town. But from an NBA players perspective, this just has been, you know, a dismal organization, a loser organization. The wilderness, you don't want to go to Washington. It's why they had to trade for Trey Young and Anthony Davis.

No player picks Washington. Things have to change dramatically. And they have to change over a sustained period of time for the positive. And look, they're coming off the three, you know, tanking seasons and they're an irrelevant, I mean, largely irrelevant NBA franchise right now, as they've been for the better part of 47 years. So when he said that, I mean, I think anybody that's paid attention knows what he was saying. You know, he's saying it's not what it seems. That's a positive spin on, hey man, you know, they got good young players, DC's, you know,

Okay, you know, Winger and Dawkins aren't, you know, what this organization's had in the past and they're doing things the right way. But, you know, him immediately saying I'm under contract and then at the end saying, you know, they got to figure things out. He also said at one point during this press conference, he wants to compete for an NBA championship as soon as next year. And they're not going to compete for an NBA championship in 2026, 2027. They can definitely turn it around in a major way and go from a 65 loss team or a 17 win team to a 45 win team. But it's also going to depend on how many games Anthony Davis plays, and that's always a question mark. Is he going to play 65 plus games? Because if he does, they've got a really good chance to win.

45 plus games and be not only a playoff team, but a top four or five seed in the playoffs. They do. They can turn it around like that next year with what they have. And that doesn't count what they are going to add in the draft. You know, if they got a Cooper flag kind of a rookie season from AJ DeBanza, I mean, you're really, you know, looking at a very bright future. Is he willing to stick around and not contend until, and when I say, contend, be a legitimate championship contender until maybe the third year when he's playing, because he didn't play this year. Because let's just say that they're healthy and they are what I think they are on paper,

which is a team that could definitely win 45 to 50 games if Anthony Davis is healthy, be in the postseason, not actually get to the championship series and win it. But, you know, we didn't see OKC do that in the first year off their tank. see Detroit do that in the first year up their tank. But I think Washington could be a playoff team next year. And then as early as 27, 28, depending on whether or not they get this pick right in June, they could be, you know, really inching up the Eastern Conference ladder. And if it's not 2027, 2028, maybe 2028, 2029.

But that includes a superstar like Anthony Davis being here and playing like a superstar and playing in a majority of the games. Look, when it comes to this answer, which a lot of people were very critical of, saying that he already wants out, already talking about the money and we got to get things figured out. When I heard him say get things figured out, I would think that that comes down to maybe additional talent.

It comes down to who they end up, you know, selecting as a head coach. I think Brian Keith won't be the head coach next year. That's my guess. I don't know that for sure. But I would guess that they're going to perhaps hire a new head coach for this new era, which is the era of trying to win because they've been in this era of not trying to win. And I think, you know, his contract is part of the, you know, have to figure things out.

But next year, he ain't going anywhere. I mean, and if you're off put by his answer, sorry, but that's just the NBA in 2026. You know, the NBA player has the power. They call the shots more than owners and general managers do. And in his case, you know, I would assume that they'd love to see him play next year, you know, but then he's got that player option. Like if he plays really well next year and gets to that player option without an extension,

I don't know. I mean, I'm not for giving him an extension right now. I'm not. I am cautiously optimistic that he would have a chance to, you know, play really well for this team and stay healthy and play really well. I mean, that may be more wishful thinking. But I'm not so off put by his comments. It's today's NBA. These players have all the power.

It's the way they think. So what you got from him was, you know, honesty, you know, I love my money. I'm under contract. I got to be here next year. But he isn't, you know, he isn't pouty. He's not whiny. He's not, you know, in that state of, oh, my God, ship me anywhere. I don't want to be here.

He has said some very nice things about the young talent on the team and the front office and even the city at this point. Yeah. So there you go. More tomorrow, I'm sure, from Tommy on this subject. By the way, one last thing before we get to the golf. How about the Nats sweeping the Brewers over the weekend? They have, by the way, put together some impressive offensive numbers

through the first 15 games of the season. They're sitting there at 7 and 8. The Mets actually have a worse record than they do in the division right now. They swept the Brewers over the weekend, winning 8 to 6 yesterday. They're playing Pittsburgh tonight in a series on the road, first of three. But really good, you know, good play recently from the Nats. James Wood has really gotten it going. They're playing well.

All right, let's get to the golf with Steve Sands. We'll do that after these words from a few of our sponsors. This time of the year always makes me rethink what's in my closet. I'm trying to keep fewer things, but better ones, pieces that are well made and easy to wear all the time. That's why I keep coming back to quince. The fabrics feel elevated, the fits are thoughtful, and the pricing actually makes sense. Quince makes high quality everyday essentials using premium materials like 100% European linen, and they're insanely soft, flow-knit active wear fabric.

The quince linen pants have become a go-to. They're breathable. comfortable and look more polished than I expected. The best part is their prices are 50 to 60% less than similar brands. How? Well, Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. Everything is designed to last and make getting dressed easy.

Refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.com slash Sheen for free shipping and 365-day returns. available in Canada too. Go to Q-U-I-N-C-E-D-com slash Sheean for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash sheen. Hey guys, I've been talking about Mando now for a few months. I'm a big fan. Mando is a whole-body deodorant. And for some of you, that's a big deal, especially for those of you that are back into the dating world. You're getting ready for a first date. Deodorant is a non- negotiable on a first date, and this is a whole body deodorant. Safety use anywhere on your body.

That includes normal places, like your armpits, but also includes thigh folds, belly buttons, feet, and also private parts. It was created by a doctor who saw firsthand how normal B.O. was being misdiagnosed and mistreated. It's clinically proven to block odor all day and control odor for up to 72 hours. Mando comes in a solid deodorant stick and also as a spray. Some men mask their B-O-W-O-with-Sense. Mando men get the job done right. Don't mask it, Mando it.

Available in retailers near you. Or head to shopmando.com because for a limited time, new customers get 20% off site-wide with my exclusive code, Sheehan at shopmando.com for 20% off site-wide. That's S-H-O-M-A-N-D-O-G. com code shean please support this show and tell them that i sent you mando's got you covered with deodorant plus sweat control say goodbye to sweat stains and hello to long lasting freshness rory is a rare repeat winner at accusta that was the final call from jim nance yesterday on cbs rory

goes back to back at augusta joining me right now is my good friend steve Sands, who is best known as the lead interviewer and a lot more than that for NBC's golf coverage, the Golf Channel's golf coverage, et cetera. And he was in Augusta all week long. I had Scott on the show, I think, on Wednesday. And I asked him about, you know, when you're down there and you've been going for decades as well, what's your favorite thing? Like, there's something that you look forward to when you head down there for the week.

What's the thing that you look forward to doing the most? Oh, man. To pinpoint one thing would be awfully tough, Kevin. It's such an honor to go. It's such a great week. Honestly, you know, it's become one of my favorite things to do is have lunch with Scott inside the call-out. Really? We don't get to catch up much.

You know, we're great friends. We talk on the phone and we text, but we don't get to see each other in person too often. And for some reason, they still are. us with our badges to go inside the men's grill at Augusta National Goal. The grill room at Augusta National Golf Club and have lunch. It's incredible. And Scott and I do it every year at noon on Wednesday, and we have a great time catching up.

You know, walking the golf course is always a thrill, seeing it one time, that first time. But I think the greatest thing that I get to do when I'm there that week, Kevin, by far is I sit up there in the morning and I host our shows and we get all the great old timers in their green jackets Raymond Floyd's 50th anniversary

we get Ben Crenshaw to go through whole locations we get Tom Watson we get you know we had Fuzzy Zeller before he passed away and Thursday morning every year at 11 a.m. We have Jack Nicholas on

and I sit there with Jack Nicholas no commercials for like 15 or 18 minutes just chatting with Jack Nicholas with a green jacket on at Augusta National and it's just an incredible thrill. It's an honor to do it, but it's a thrill to do it every year. Do you ever get a sense from him that there is a golfer that he really wants to do well and that he's rooting for? Like this year, did you get a sense that there was somebody that he really wanted to play well and win?

You know, it's a great question because Jack has become, he's 86 years old, and he has stayed so in touch with the game through all the things he's involved with, most notably, best PGA tour event on the calendar outside of the players and the majors is the memorial tournament, Dublin, Ohio, outside of Columbus in his hometown of Columbus, Ohio. So he knows all the guys. He lives in North Palm Beach, Florida, with Barbara and all the kids down there, and the grandkids and the great-grandchildren. They got just a good Jillian Nicholas that's living down there. And he has gotten no a lot of those guys because a lot of those guys have moved to that area. So they pick his brain. They come over for dinner. They go out for lunch. A lot of them,

members of the Bears Club where he is always hanging out. And he has become and has always been, but he's really become a big Rory guy. Rory, a few years ago, asked Jack if they could have lunch. And, of course, when you're older, just like me or you, and we get a much older, and we talk to young kids who are doing what we want to do for a living or who want to do what we do for a living, it's nice to be able to pay it forward and share that. But it's also really nice when they reach out to you. and Rory reached out to Jack

and they went through all 18 holes they went through everything they just mapped it all out and I think Rory is a great guy he's a great kid and I think Jack is really taken to Rory

he was so happy that he won last year got that monkey off his back and when we talked to him on Thursday this past week Kevin he was saying that he really thought Rory had a great chance to go back to back to join he Nick and Tiger is the only ones who've ever done it

Do former champions have an advantage, not from what you would expect me to ask next, I don't think, which is they know the course and they've experienced winning, et cetera. But they actually get to go play Augusta kind of whenever they want, correct? As an honorary member, once you win a green jacket? And do they, do former champions get a chance to play the course more than regular 24? players leading up to the event during the course of the year? If so, is that an advantage? It's an advantage in the sense that they've actually crossed the finish line at Augusta.

It's so different than the other three major championships. It's the only one that goes back to the same course every year. And once you've won it once, it's a lot easier to win it a second time. It's still incredibly difficult, as we saw yesterday, to do it. In fact, Rory said, I always thought it was so hard to win the Masters because I was trying to win the career grant slam. and the Masters. He goes, what I realized today is, it's just hard to win the Masters, and not just along with the Career Grand Flam, but they get to play it. Once you are

invited to the Masters, and every player is invited to the Masters, you don't just play there automatically. And once you get your invitation, which is usually, you know, for guys who are automatic like Scotty and Rory, you know, it's, you know, late in the fall, early in the year, and you can come play anytime you want. You have to have a member with you to play. not that there's anybody who won't play with a guy like Roy Mack or Scottie Sheffler, but you do have to have a member. You can't just go there with your buddies and play just because you're invited to play. It's not like Shinnecock, you know, this year for the U.S. Open or Ronoming for the PGA,

you can go there and just play because you're, you know, eligible to play in the PGA championship, and you don't have to have a member with you. At Augusta, you do. The only person who is a member who's a winner is Jack Nicholas. He's an actual member of Augustine National Golf Club. Arnold Palmer was also, but he passed away in 2016. So Jack is the only living of the 35 living Masters champions. Jack is the only member.

So he can go whenever he wants. And he can bring friends, bring family, just like a regular member at a club. If Roy McElroy wants to go up there for the last three weeks and work on his game, he's got to call the club. He's got to get a member to go out there with him, and he can go play. Okay, well, that was presumptuous on my part, and I was wrong. I thought winners were then honorary members and could, go and play whenever they want without a matter.

No. Not honorary members in the sense that you would think of that Columbia Country Club. Okay. Yeah. You know, honorary members, if somebody won the U.S. diameter and they became an honorary member or whatever it was, you know, that's not the case. But like, at Augusta, yes, you are treated differently if you are a winner. There's the champion's locker room that you go to that the members don't go to, just the champions.

You have the champions dinner, and you get treated differently there. but you are not a member. You have to go and play and call up a member and have the member come play you. All right. Come take you out there. So let's talk about Rory's win because I kind of sensed before this tournament began, and I had Scott on the podcast Wednesday, and he didn't put Rory on his short list of potential winners,

and I think a lot of people felt the same way, even though he was in the top three or four in terms of favorites, You and I did not talk before the tournament. What did you think of Rory's chances before and then give me your overall thoughts on him winning it? I put him on the list. Scott and I talked about this at lunch on Monday. I put him on the list because he's Rory McRoy, the second-ranked player in the world. He'd won it last year.

But I thought Scottie Shepard was going to win. I still can't believe Scottie Shepard didn't win, and I will get into that. I'm sure in our conversation right now. But I did not put McRoy atop the list because let's face it, this is the 90th Masters, Kevin. Only three guys before yesterday had ever gone back to back, Jack, Tiger, and Nick Valdos.

So it hadn't been done in 24 years when Tiger wanted an 02, so I didn't put him at the top of the list. I actually had I actually had a good week, if you want to look at it from the way we usually look at things. I had Scotty, Zander, Cameron Young,

Matt Fitzpatrick, and Rory as my five guys. I had him in that. I had him that order. I didn't have it the other way around. So I was, I was incorrect on my thought process on McElroy. And, you know, I think that Rory coming into the week, you just never know. I remember talking to Scott at lunch on Monday saying, it wouldn't shock me if you won by six or if you missed a cut by six. You just don't know when you're the defending champion at the Masters, how you're going to handle all of the things that you have to do leading up to it. I mean, Kevin, Saturday at Augusta National, they had the Augusta National Women's Amateur.

He was there walking around. Sunday, the drive-chip-and-putt, he was there handing out trophies and doing things for the club. Then he started practicing on Monday. He prepared differently for the Masters than he ever has in his life because he was the defending champion. And he worked out in the ones. So my guess is that routine is going to stay the same next year. I thought he was in big trouble, if not done, on the front nine after he doubled four and bogeyed. you know, missed a couple of short putts, and we see sometimes that's where he kind of loses

tournaments, his short makeable putts. And I thought he was done on the front nine. He fell behind by as many as three. Did you feel the same way? I did, and I didn't. You know, one of the great things about Roy McElroy is he's Arnie and Phil. He's not Jack and Tiger. It's a roller coaster ride, man.

It's so compelling. You are a Rory fan or a family member. I mean, wow, you are up and down all around the place. And when he chose three wood off the first tee, I thought, that's a good sign. Rory's going to play the golf course the way he should today. And then he hit it onto the green, and he had like a 10-foot birdie putt. He left it like two or three feet short. Right.

And I thought, wow, that's a bad sign. Didn't birdie two, but then he hit a drive on three. and he reached the grade and he two putter for birdie at three so i thought okay here we go and then on four he made that ridiculous double and i thought oh boy but i never thought he was out of it kevin because when you're in that final group you have time to gather yourself it's not like you're running out of time when you have an early hiccup like that and you know Justin rose made a run Cameron young was there in the lead by himself you know scotty sheffler was making his way up to move forward i i didn't think he was ever out of it i just thought there were a couple of

moments there when he made that putt at seven after bogeing six. When we bogged six, I thought, oh, boy, this is not going to be good. But I didn't think he was out of it. He came right back and birded seven. Seven has given him fit in his career. And then he birded eight. And I thought, okay, here we go. But then Justin Rose got hot.

He made the turn, and he was two ahead. So I never thought he was out of it, Kevin. But I did think he was in a little bit of trouble there. After he walked off six green and he was three back, I thought, this is not good for him. He said afterwards, I mean, you know, going pin seeking at 12 was big, but that is drive on 13, which was 350. And I think the average drive on that hole was something like 306 yesterday,

but he thought that that was the big shot on the back nine after birdying 12. What did you think? Yeah, that sequence was huge. I'll tell you what was even bigger. What was even bigger for Macaroid The par save at 11. Oh, at 11, yeah. When he's saved his par at 11, 11's the most difficult hole in the golf.

Yep. If he bogeys there, there's so little momentum moving towards the middle portion of A-Men corner at 12. That shot becomes totally different when you're coming off a bogey. When you're coming off a great par save, and that was a great par save. when he made that put, I thought he's got some bounce in a step. And then he may have shoved that T-shot a little bit to the right on 12. You know, normally you want to go to the middle of the point. He went to the right side of the bunker.

He may have shoved it a little bit. You could see in his follow-through in his backslick, excuse me, that there was a little bit of trepidation when that ball was in the air. But it was a great shot, made the put. And then he goes to 13. That drive was incredible. And that's a whole that had given him a little bit of trouble, you know, hitting in the pine straw at the tea the first three days.

He was, check this out, Kevin. He's a master's champion yesterday. There were 91 invitees to the 90th master's. 91. Where did he finish in driving? Driving accuracy, he was 90th. Oh, my God. And he won the mastery.

Think about that, Kevin. That is phenomenal. So when he needed it at 13, he got it. But then he had the two-shot lead on 18, and he hit the ball like me and You almost at a 10 farewell. Well, before we get to 18, I mean, how lucky did he get at 15 on his third? I mean, that ball did not bite and come back if it does. He's in the water.

Yeah. Was that a miss-in? Oh, there's no question. Yeah. I thought the 2008 champion Trevor Emelman shot 75 on Sunday to win in 2008. He got the greatest break of all time. Everybody thinks of Fred couples because of his popularity and his World Golf Hall of Fame status. The ball staying up on 12 in 1992.

Trevor's ball stayed up on 15 on Sunday in order to allow him to continue on and win the Masters in 2008. That ball never stays up. It never has stayed up. Same thing on 12. It did for Freddie, and it did for Trevor. Somehow it hit a pebble or a blade of grass that just stopped it. I have no idea how that ball didn't spin back in the water for Rory McElroy. and when Trevor said afterwards he must have not hit that cleanly because there would have been

spin on that ball and it would have gone wet and Rory would not have won the Masters. I thought the par save at 16 too because Zimmelman said he'll be lucky to get it within five feet and he nuzzled that thing down to a foot saved par there. And yeah, you know, I still can't figure out because they did not have, I don't think they covered his second shot on 18 very well, personally, from my standpoint, because they were talking about him playing it up 10 Fairway, and then he obviously plays a high hook, and it goes all the way over to the other trap.

It would have been great to have seen some sort of overhead with a tracker on that, because I don't know how he did that. Yeah, that was a wild, wild sequence. I can't believe you took driver. Trevor said on TV that he agreed with it. He chose driver. Yeah.

I know. I was thinking, wait a second. All you need is a five here. You don't need a par. If you need par, go ahead and pump it up there with the driver, I get it. And I realize he's one of the two to three best drivers

to the golf all in the world, but clearly he didn't have his driver, you know, all situated all four days. So when he chose to hit the drivers, okay, then he hits it like, literally like me and you,

Kevin drives away to the right. Look, I am not going to Chris. criticize CBS's coverage because I think it's bad karma. I think it's professional courtesy to not do that. It's so difficult to broadcast golf. It is so challenging to do this sport on live TV. It's by far the most difficult sport to produce television.

Sure. Yeah. Everybody's going. Everybody's playing at the same time. When you take a time out, they don't take a time out. And you've got to catch up and you've got multiple players on the course the same time. And you're playing 18 different holes and everybody's just jumping around. But to lose that golf ball was not great.

Let's be honest. And I have no idea what happened there. I'm going to be with the CBS guys in a couple of weeks for two weeks in a row at Dural and Charlotte. For Golf Channel, we have Thursday and Friday and early Saturday and Sunday covers during CBS weeks. I'll be with them, and we'll talk about it. But that was a tough spot for fans to be able to know what's going on. I'm glad you said that. I wasn't sure if I was.

It was probably for them too. Yeah. Because am I right, though? So we're in agreement that that shot was not covered the best way for a fan watching on TV. But did he just hit a super high hook where he just essentially went from near 10 Fairway all the way over to the other side of the 18th Fairway and landed in the trap? And was that what he was trying to do? I'm assuming, yes. Yes. Yeah, there were a couple things there. First of all, the thing that surprised me the most about not being able to locate the golf ball is these cameramen are the best in the world at what they do.

They are fabulous at what they do. It just was a bad spot. They were in the trees. It was very difficult to see. I was a little surprised they didn't have the drone up top, which they kept showing all week, be able to find that ball somewhere. But nobody could find the ball because of where he was. Nobody's used to being over there. So what happened was if you look at the replay, there was a tree that looked like it was right in front of him.

It was actually like at 11 o'clock, not at 12 o'clock right in front of him. And the angle he was on, 18 is a dog leg to the right. So he drove it to the right. So he didn't hook it as far as people think he did because it's actually more of a straight shot than people realize because of the way that he pulled. He turns around from left to right, if that makes sense. Yes. So he did play a high hook to the right of that tree, but that tree was a little bit farther to the left than it looked like on. television. It's very difficult to be able to give people an understanding of, boy, that tree looks

like it's right in front of them. It was actually like an 11 o'clock, and the hole was at 11 o'clock. So yes, he hooked it around that tree, and yes, he put it in the front left bunker, which means he hooked it even more. But it wasn't nearly a, it wasn't like a boomerang slingshot. He just hit it like a normal. Do you know what his distance to that spot in the trap was? I don't know exactly what it was, but if I had to guess, I would say it was somewhere between 180 and 200. So what do you think he hit? Because he had to get the ball up in a hurry, too, right?

Had to get the ball up in the hurry, and he knew he was going to leave it short. He didn't want to go along there. My guess is he hit a 7-h. It's my get. I do not know what he hit. That was another thing. Nobody knew what he was.

Right. It was a very strange scenario. Again, I am not criticizing CBS in that regard. I'm saying it was a very difficult situation for them. Obviously, it could have been handled better, but I don't know the exact scenario, I wasn't in the TV truck. I didn't have a headset on.

I don't know exactly what was taking place there, but nobody can find a golf ball. And that clearly on the 72nd hole, that's not ideal for people in our business. You know, that's a tough spot for us. I observe something that I don't know if I'm anywhere near correct on, but I wanted to ask you. He plays quickly to begin with,

but I thought he played very quickly on the back nine in a couple of instances, including just walking. right into that trap and swinging. I mean, there was not much time between the time he got to his golf ball and the time he hit his shot. Did you sense that he was playing faster

than normal or not? I don't know if he was playing faster than normal. He's a very quick player, which is great, which is great, by the way. Right, of course. I think what happened, you know, what's interesting about McElroy, I mean, there's a lot of things interesting about him,

but one of the things that's interesting about Macquarie is, it's like a lot of other players who do, you know, one or two things well, you don't think of the other parts of their game. He is a spectacular bunker player. So when he saw the lie, originally, if you remember, listening to Jim Nansen Treor, they thought it was a plugged lie. Right.

And it was not plugged. They actually came out of its pitchmark. It wasn't a perfect lie, but it wasn't a plugged lie. That's a routine bunker shot for Rory. So to go in there, Kevin, and overthink it would have been really bad. Sure. He just got in there, saw the lie, give me the wedge, boom, get it up there. I need two putts to win, and on we go.

So I think there were a couple times late on the second nine where he played quickly, more quickly than most, but not more quickly than he normally does, but he's quicker than most players. And what I think that is, Kevin, is his understanding that he's done this before. He's been there. And like we said, it's a lot easier to win the second time than it is the first time, because you have that great memory in your brain of knowing exactly how to get to the finish line

at an event like the master. So yeah, I think he had confidence and conviction in the shots he was hitting, and that's why he was playing a little bit quicker than you would normally see. Let's talk about Scotty, because I thought watching, I said, there's going to be a playoff worst case.

Some of those par saves were ridiculous, but it was really the put on 17. If that drops, you're in a playoff. I mean, Rory nuzzled it down there. He had two putts, but that would have been a difficult putt to make if he had to make it to win. But give me your thoughts as you watch Scotty Schaeffler play the weekend and especially yesterday.

He had eight chances at 13 and 15 all week. All right? Two par five on the second night of Augusta. He birdied 15 yesterday. The only birdie he made it. 13 or 15 all week, and he lost by one. Yeah, crazy. He should have won the Masters by four shots, and he didn't.

Now, the putt at 17, here's what I think. When he made the birdie putt at 15, then he hit the beautiful T-shot at 16, came down the hill, right to that great whole location on Sunday, the traditional whole location, made the putt there. Now he's at 11 under. So now he knows one of the great ways, it's always great to be in the final group, always. But one of the great ways, if not the best way, to win a major championship is to be a few groups ahead, post a number, and then let everybody else behind you crumble under the pressure. So here he was on 15 and 16 with back-to-back birdies, gets to 11 under par. At that point, he's two back because Rory's at 1300. At Augusta, they have manual leaderboard.

When they flip the number from 9 to 10, from 10 to 11, the place goes bananas. and the roars are heard all over the ground at Augusta. When they flipped that to 11, that place got loud, Kevin, really loud. And then at 17, he was a fingernail away, not an inch, a fingernail away from posting, from getting to 12 under. If he makes that put at 12, Rory's back a couple holes. He's got to play the final three holes completely differently than he would have played it, with a two-shot lead. He would have been tied for the lead or one ahead.

That's a lot different. I agree with the 100%. I don't think Rory's making a 4 at 18, and I think there's a playoff, and they could have still been playing on Monday morning for all we know. But it certainly seemed like it was going to be a playoff at 12. Of all the players, Justin Rose had a chance, Jason Day had a chance, Shane Lowry had a chance.

Russell Henley really had a chance. Russell Henley really had a chance. Yeah. Teryl hadn't had a chance, but the guy who's got to be kicking himself today, more than anybody, is Sheffler. Again, eight tries at 13 and 15 all week, four days, two par five on the second nine, didn't make a birdie once on 13, birded 15 yesterday for the first time all week, and he only lost by one. That is coming way too close for Scotty Sheffler. He should have won by three or four.

Yeah. You know, and... By the right guy won. hold on. The right guy, he shouldn't have won. The right guy won. Rory was the best player for the week. But when you look back on the week, the fact that 12 under was the winning score has got to bother Scotty Schaeffler more than any other

player who did not win the green jacket. Let's put it that way. Justin Rose, I think a lot of people were rooting for him to get it done. And when he took that two-shot lead, I expected him to play well on the back nine, and there were just a couple of puts that he just missed, But, man, he keeps knocking on the door. What is he now 45 years old?

I mean, will he ever get over the hump and win another major? I think so. What do you think? A couple of things. He's playing the best golf in a long, long time. He's not of his life, but the best golf in a long, long time. He's 45 years of ages. He won twice the last couple of months, a couple of big of them.

One of Tori Pines earlier this year. He wanted Memphis last year in the first round of the playoffs, the FedEx got playoffs. Look, he was trying, there's a couple of things there. He's been a runner-up at the Masters three times, Kevin. First time was Jordan Speets in 2015. He lost in the playoffs to Sergio Garcia in 17. He lost in a playoff last year to McElroy.

He's the only player in the history of the Masters to be in multiple playoffs, having not yet won the Green Jacket. Ben Hogan lost multiple playoffs at the Masters, but he won the Masters. Justin is not. Yesterday, he had a two-shot leader, and he made the turn. If he would have won, he would have been the second oldest champion in the history of the Masters at 45, 46 years of age, 40 years of age, 40 years. ago this week, the anniversary of Jack

Nicholas, 86. So do I think he's going to win another major? There's no reason he doesn't, because he is a, first guy, he's a pro's a pro, he is always working on the game. He is always keeping himself in shape. He is mentally tough.

He had a very difficult second on yesterday. When he hit that second shot at 13 yesterday, I wasn't allowing myself to think Justin was going to win, but when he hit that second shot at 13 onto the green at 20 feet for Eagle. I thought, Wow. Two putt this for

Bertie and off you go. He three putted it. That was the end of Justin Rose at 13 yesterday. That was too bad. All right, let's take a quick break. We'll come back with Steve. We'll find out sort of his off-the-radar player that he was most impressed with and maybe the player

who had the most disappointing weekend. And I want to ask him about a multi-time major winner who I think has become very much irrelevant. on tour in recent years. That and more with Steve after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, I'm back to tell you about Thrive Market again. I'm a big fan. I've been telling you about them for a few months now. It's not just the convenience of getting items delivered, but it's being

able to filter by dietary preferences for you and the whole family. Thrive Market is a membership-based grocery service where you can shop from wherever you are. You simply just hop. on their app. The membership breaks down to just $5 a month, and it gives members access to weekly sales, personalized shopping with filters, auto ship and save, free gifts, and peace of mind knowing there's no junk in any of the products they carry. Thrive Market just makes it easy, especially with the kids at home. If the kids want mac and cheese, sugary snacks, juice boxes, they're going to eat what they're going to eat. Thrive Market gives you versions with less sugar, fewer sketchy ingredients, and more nutrition. You're paying a small monthly fee to offload the

stress, research, and decision fatigue of eating healthy, and you can try it risk-free. And instead of paying delivery fees, service charges, or tips on every order, the membership bundles everything into one simple monthly cost. And the membership pays for itself anyway with their discounts and sales. I could spend way more on delivery fees or just pay $5 a month for a Thrive Market membership. This is a product that I love and you will too. Ready to make some healthy swaps and become a member? Join Thrive Market with my link, Thrivemarket.com slash Sheen for 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. This segment of the show is brought you by Window Nation. Spring is a great to open up your windows, let the fresh air in, swirl around the room, helps just sleep at night.

Not everybody can do it, though. Some have windows that are older, that are cracked, that are hard to open, they leak, they need repainting. If that's you, I've got a really good offer from Window Nation to present you with during their more you buy, the more you save sale, you can save up to 50% off your purchase. Plus, you can get the new windows with zero interest for five years. When Donations, the number one window installation company in America per Forbes magazine. They've got over 45,000 five-star reviews. Ninety-six percent of their installs go off without any issues at all. They do not require follow-up service. It all starts with an in-home estimate that's free of charge. They'll come out when it's convenient for you. They'll actually go through your home

in an hour or less and tell you which windows need to be replaced and which ones don't. And then they'll leave you with a quote. And you make the call. But I promise you, if you've got older windows and you've been thinking about making a switch to new windows, window nation should be your first call. 86690 Nation or windownation.com. Mention my name. And I promise you that you will take very good care of you.

We continue with Steve Sands. NBC Sports and Golf Channel, Steve Sands, who is in Augusta all week long and all weekend long. So give me a player that for casual golf fans may be a little bit of an unknown or a little bit off the radar that you were really impressed with this weekend. By far, Russell Henley. Russell Henley is a top five player in the world, maybe top seven player in the world. I don't know the exact world of ranking is. I think he's five in the world. or he was earlier this year.

Scotty Schaeffler, every other great player in America loves Russell Henley. He's a great putter. He's a really good guy, very quiet, let his clubs do the talking, kind of an innocuous professional, if you will, but he is a great, great player, a very tough competitor.

By the way, side note to Russell Henley, so he could have an athlete he is. He played the biggest division of high school basketball in the state of Georgia. Really? That's good, good athlete. Wow. He was all state, first team all state.

in basketball. He wasn't playing like single egg. He was playing like the big, big, big boys. Interesting. I've asked Denny McCarthy before who the best basketball players on tour are because Denny was a very good high school basketball player, an exceptional shooter.

And he said that Gary Woodland was probably, he said he was definitely one of them, meaning him, Denny, but he said Gary Woodland is a really good basketball player. I did not remember him saying Henley, but that's interesting. Yeah. It's very quiet. Nobody really knows about it. I mean, we know about Denny because of Montgomery County being where we're from, and I love Danny to death, and he was a tremendous shooter at Georgetown Prep. Gary Woodland played college basketball, tremendous athlete.

He played, like, he went to Kansas and he realized, yeah, I'm not that good. So he ended up going somewhere else and playing college basketball, but he's a big KU guy. Dustin Johnson was a very good. He's very good, yeah. He played basketball as well. Russell Henley didn't play college basketball, but he was first team. Allstate in Georgia. I mean, that's pretty strong, considering where he was and how he grew up, and where he grew up in the size of the school he was playing. That's pretty strong. But anyway, so Henley, people love him on the PGA tour because he can really put.

He's a baller out there. You know, he doesn't fade when he gets a chance. And the Ryder Cup in the President's Cup, the last two, Scotty Sheffield, the best player in the world. Number one in the world has asked the captain to play with Russell Henley. Interesting. That's what they think of Russell Henley. So yesterday, Russell was hitting darts, man.

When his irons are on, I mean, his putter is always great. When his irons are on, he always gives himself a chance to win. And he's won a bunch on tour. But there's nobody really knows a lot about him because he's just such a quiet guy, very nice guy, quiet guy. And yesterday he got the 10 under par, and he had about 6 or 7 really, really good chances to post 12 or 1,300. I think Russell Hamley, aside from Scotty Sheffler, is here today thinking,

How did I not get to 1,200 get into a playoff? How did I not get to 13 and win this damn thing? And he had a lot of opportunities, and the putter went cold at the wrong time, and he just didn't take advantage of it. Who had a more disappointing weekend, if anybody, than Bryson? Oh, man, Bryson had it terribly. John Rom, was a really bad week. The two best players on Liv did not look good.

John Rom made the cut on the number at plus four, but he looked terrible to start. Bryson's Schumbo looked terrible to start. That was inexplicable. It was very, very strange. The two of them, in my opinion, were the two biggest disappointments. Scott thought Bryson was going to win, and I jokingly said to him, I don't think Augusta and the golf gods will allow that to happen.

But Bryson famously said a few years ago, you know, the par 67 golf course. I don't think you'll ever win the Masters because the karma, if you're superstitious like I am, that karma is going to go against you when you say something silly like that. I think I was most surprised yesterday by Shane Lowry's performance because I always kind of consider him

especially Ryder Cup-wise to be a big-time clutch performer. I know he melted down a month or so ago in a tour event, and I'm forgetting which one it was. But was that as surprising to you as it was to me? I thought he'd play well yesterday. You're forgetting because it was, the cognizant classic, and I was in the booth for NBC that way.

I'm sorry. I was, of course, I'm just kidding. But I was calling that 17th hole. Yeah. Disaster. I was like, it was disaster. And Shane's a fascinating character in golf. You know, he's a bit of a tough guy.

But when he's out there, he's kind of a lovable fat guy, laughing, having a good time, getting holes in one, that guy. He's had a hole in one, Kevin. Check this out. Yeah. He's the only person in history of the master's to get two holes in. in one of different holes. Now they've got one this past week at six.

He's also got a hole in one at 7 at Pebble Beach, most famous part three at Pebble. He's also gotten a hole in one at 17 at TBC Sawgrass. Wow. He's also got a hole in one at 16 at Augusta. I mean, it's unreal how many holes in one he has. But Shane is a terrific guy. He's a tough guy, but he's a terrific guy to be around.

An affable guy when he's in a great mood. It's awesome. But he's having a hard time closing these events. He had that cognizant classic one a month and a half ago, and he just literally just spit to bit and coughed it up. He had a run yesterday. I mean, we thought he'd have a run yesterday, and he wasn't a factor, and he was out early. And it's becoming a problem. You know, scar tissue in this sport is every bit as difficult to get over as it is in any other sport,

and especially when you're going back to the same venues each year, and you have these memories, that are not positive. And Shane is starting to build up, even though he won his major seven years ago, Royal Port Rush 2019. He had a chance a couple of times in the last two years to win majors and cough those up as well. It's becoming an issue with Shane Lowry,

and I think he needs to get it straightened out pretty quickly because he's too good of a player to keep finishing so poorly like this. So the last one on the Masters, and then just one question about what's coming up. I said to one of my boys yesterday, man, Jordan Spieth has become borderline for at least casual golf fans irrelevant. He just isn't in the mix. I know he played very well. I mean, he was tied for 12th.

He had a very good tournament, but he was never, you know, a contender to win this thing. It's all of that success. I mean, we're now, we're now nine years removed from his. last major. The 2017 British Open was his last major. Well, what's the, why hasn't Jordan Speeth contended even more than he has in recent years? At 2017 Open Championship win, by the way, was it at Royal Brookdale, which is where we're going on this summer for the Open Championship. You know, there's a few things. One is golf is a four-letter word, Kevin. The other is, is life, family,

you know, his game is okay, it's not great, but one of the cruelties of this sport compared to the other sports. No one, me and you, I know you think the same thing as me. No one wants to see Joe Namath in a Rams uniform.

No one wants to see Willie Mays in a Mets uniform. Nobody wants to see that. But in this sport, they don't show you the door. You know, Troy Aikman still wanted to play. But, you know, TechSram, Gil Brandt, Tom Landry,

Jimmy Johnson, Jerry Jones said, you know what? We're done now, and they cut you. You know, that's the way it works. If Jordan Speath was on a team sport, he probably would have either been cut or traded by now and picked up by another squad. And in this sport, they let you keep playing. I'm 57 years old.

I think Ernie Else is 56. He might be 55, but I think he's 56. I remember having a conversation with Ernie else. He's a four-time major champion, a World Golf Hall of Fame member, one of the all-time great players of his generation. He was in his late 40s, And I hadn't seen him in like six or seven weeks.

And I was talking to him and I was like, man, I haven't seen you forever, Ernie. And he goes, you know what? It's the game. I go, what do you mean? He goes, you know, I'm still out here trying. I'm still out here grinding. But nobody cares, nobody knows because I haven't done anything in so long. But they don't show you the door in golf.

If you're still eligible to play, you have the ability to keep on going. Now, Jordan Speets, not in that category. He's in the mid-30. Yeah. But Jordan Speeth has been injured. and Jordan Speeth has not played well, but it's been a long time. Ricky Fowler falls into that category. Fowler and Spieth used to be in featured groups every Thursday and Friday,

and then used to be in contention every Saturday and Sunday. It's been a long time. So his game clearly needs to sharpen up. By the way, he has a chance again next week, next month at Aronemik outside of Philly to win the PGA championship to become a career Grand Slam champion. People forget that he's won the other three. and his game's just not great, Kevin. It's not razor-sharp.

Is it the driver more than anything? He just doesn't hit it long enough, consistently enough? No. No, it's the other way around. He's the other way around. He's hit the ball pretty well. He's hitting the ball pretty well. When he was great from 2014-

2017, when he was the best player in the world, my God, he made every putt, every putt. And I'm talking like 20-30-footers. Not just the eight to ten footers. And he has really dried up on the greens. And I think that's the biggest issue. He's hitting the ball far enough. He's hitting the ball well enough, but he's not making the clutch putts.

Right. 50 second in the world is Jordan's feet. Incredible. Crazy. All right. We've got three more majors to go. By the way, he's not eligible for the U.S. Open, by the way. Really?

Think about this. That's the other thing about this sport. that's so amazing. They keep playing. They're out every week on the PGA tour. They're doing their thing, but you can just get into this abyss. Ricky Fowler, not in the Masters. Jordan Speeith, Ricky Fowler, not in the U.S. Open. They're going to have to qualify for the U.S. Open unless they win here in the next few weeks. What's interesting is I kind of feel like Ricky Fowler has actually been in contention in a few spots here over the last two years more so than Spieth has been. Not at majors.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Although actually he played really well at LACC, didn't he? He did. He came up. He came in second. He was with McElroy and Wyndham Clark. Yeah. All right. Up next is Aronimic. I mean, people swear by this place. I know that, you know, it was like the replacement for the Tiger tournament at Congressional once or twice maybe. So that is the PGA championship, for those that don't know, May 14th through May 17th. That's the next major. and then we're at Chinicock, legendary Shinnecock out in the Hamptons for the U.S. Open, and then as you mentioned, Royal Burkdale.

But just give me your thoughts and what are they saying about Aronimic in Philly. It's going to be great. It's going to be a good golf course out on the main line, classic northeast, tree line, thick rough. You know, it's not a U.S. Open. So it's like a U.S. Open light, the PGA championship set up at the roughest six inches at the U.S. Open. It's always four or five inches at the PGA.

But it'll be a very stern test. They haven't had a major there since Gary Player won the PGA. They're in 1962. Wow. They've had other good events there. The reason that they played, by the way, at Aronimo, it's at a congressional, is because they were having a major championship there. If you remember that, at Congressional, the U.S. Open their Rory won in 2011.

So that's the reason they didn't have the AT&T National there that year. But Aronamek hasn't had a major championship in a long, long time. And it's just an old, classic Northeast, you know, a tree-lined, thick, rough, fast greens, old-school, you know, mainline Philly type of thing. It's going to be an awesome test for sure. And I think, you know, you better be able to hit your irons, you know. Scotty Schaeffer's going to like Aronimic, I can promise you that. Great job.

Did you want to say anything about the Capp's chances here? I'm having Ben Rabie on the show next to talk about their season and to talk about Alex Ovechkin and whether or not he played for the final time at home. What were you watching and paying attention more to? I mean, you've actually watched, you know, Skins games while broadcasting golf during the fall. So yesterday was it more golf or hockey? Got a multitask on a spot like that. You know, you got the gust on one and you've got the caps on the other.

I just wanted to see what the ending was going to be like. You know, I think, I told you this before. I thought it was Darrell Green up until 20 years ago. and I think Alex Oveskins the greatest team sport athlete in the history of our city. And he got his title, and he had to win that title. If he didn't win that title, I still would say as Daryl Green. But because he won the title, I think he's the greatest team sport athlete in the history of Washington, D.C. He's been great to the fans.

He's been great to the organization. He's never gotten in trouble. He's been a leader. He led him to a title. He's got the scoring record. He's done everything right, and he's never had a contract issue, never cried about money, nothing. He's been the perfect professional athlete in D.C. And I wanted to see what would happen yesterday.

And I thought it was so hockey-like, so great that the penguins wanted to kiss the ring, if you will, at the end. And Alex kind of shoot him away. The fans were screaming OV in one more year. I don't think the team wants them to come back. I think they'd like to move on. They love them. It's not they don't want them.

Because I think they just need to move on. And I think it'd be great of Alex said, you know what, I've had enough. because he kind of is a DH at this point, Kevin, isn't he? I mean, kind of a DH. I mean, he led the team in goals and led the team in points. And by the way, he did. He's a goal score. That's what he does.

Right. You're not wrong about, you're not wrong about the Mount Rushmore. I mean, unless we're going to consider Sammy Bond, Walter Johnson, which. Well, okay, but there are people much older than you and I are. Like Tommy would say, you know, how can you possibly not include Walter Johnson or Sammy Paul. So he would put those two along with Ovechkin. And then, yeah, I think Daryl Green certainly, yeah.

I mean, part of me wants to say Sonny. Part of me wants to say, you know, somebody like Rigo, but Daryl Green's 20 plus years. Yeah, I think 20 plus years we're in the same Jersey, that whole thing. Ovechkin, they cannot let him play somewhere else next year. If he's going to come back, it's got to be in Washington. And I think he can do whatever he wants. He wants to come back.

Great. If he doesn't want to come back, I think that would probably be better for him and for the team. Because, you know, you just kind of, at some point you've got to move along. But I will say, I've never been more proud of watching them play. You know, they sold at the deadline. You know, I'm a big Carlson guy. You know, they sold at the deadline. And they still played hard.

That speaks a lot to the players. speaks a lot to Carberry, speaks a lot to the organization, and they still are alive. If Philly, and I saw the line this morning and it really bummed me out, and I text my older brother, David,

last night, Carolina, who needs to beat Philly tonight to give us a chance in the last game. Carolina was favored minus 115. Now they're minus 140. The other way, Philadelphia is. That means that Carolina's going to arrest

all of its players because they don't have to play anybody. But if they somehow step up, if Philly tightens up tonight and somehow the cap sneak into the playoffs with a big win over Columbus and Philly loses to Montreal. I've just never been so proud watching them and following them. Well, they'll play Pittsburgh. You know that, right? Exactly. And when you're selling at the deadline, players and coaches know exactly what the organization's doing.

You know, that they're just giving up. No, no, it's a great point. I don't even need my hockey guest on next at this point. You're covered. By the way, Philly, I'm looking at it right now. Now minus 155. Yeah, they were. It was minus 115 to Carolina. This morning it was minus 140.

Now it's minus 155. Clearly Carolina is resting everybody. That doesn't mean it's over. You never know. It's hockey. If you watch the NBA the last couple nights, some of those spreads and some of those numbers were massive because everybody was sitting down.

I'd love to see Carolina step up. I just couldn't be happier to watch the caps finish and not limp in, especially if Ovechkin's going to be finished. he's going out on a proud note it would be great to see them sneak into the playoffs because in hockey you never know but I think Ovechkin

in our lifetime Kevin we're around the same age he's the best athlete we've ever had in our city and he's done right by the organization done right by the fans and he's done right by the team he's been a leader

he's been great I just couldn't be happier for him his family and I hope he spends time in Washington doesn't just go home to Russia and stays there I hope he comes back and obviously

he wouldn't get against Jersey, retired and all that garbage. I mean, I hope he comes back, and he's active with the team because I think he's been such a great ambassador for Washington, for the Caps, and just the whole community. This was great.

Appreciate it. As always, I'll talk to you soon. My pleasure, Kevin. Anytime, but. Steve Sands, everybody the best. Up next, Ben Raby, to really get into the Caps and their chances after these words

from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought to you by My Booky. We've reached that time of the year where the NBA playoffs and the NHL playoffs merge together. And pretty much every night you've got playoff action going on for the next two months, really. And it's a lot of fun to wager on if you're into that kind of thing. And if you are, my recommendation is to do it at My Booky. They're offering a 50% cash bonus to all of my listeners. All you have to do is use the promo code, DC Reload, DCRE, L-O-A-D, and they'll give you 50% of whatever you deposit as a new customer or as an

existing customer. They'll give you 50% of that amount back to you in the form of a cash bonus. So if you deposit $200, you'll have $300 in your account to wager with because they will have given you a $100 cash bonus. That's the way it works. They've got everything you need for this time of year. We'll have Best of Sevens starting this weekend in both sports, playing games. coming up starting tomorrow night in the NBA playoffs.

They'll have series prices. They'll have series prop bets. And of course, you'll have everything you need for each individual game. MyBooky.com or MyBooky.orgie.orgia promo code DC Reload. All right. Joining me right now is Ben Rabi. I love having Ben on this show. Ben for 15 years was a part of the Caps radio broadcast.

network. He did pregame. He did post game. He did in-game. You can follow Ben on X at Ben Rabi 31. Ben currently does work at WTOP as a sports anchor. He also does stuff at Sirius XM. He is a hockey guy by trade, but he loves himself some college basketball as well. But we'll keep to hockey in this conversation. And before we get to, you know, whether or not you think the caps will end up making it into the postseason over the next two nights or not. Let's just start with Ovechkin. Do you think we just saw him yesterday play his final home game as a Capitol? I think so, Kevin.

That's just a gut feel. I think there were certainly some signs at Capitol 1 Arena for the home finale, not only the ovations, but maybe a little big. You look as well at how the Pittsburgh Penguins approach the game and Sidney Crosby taking the pre-game pictures with Ovechkin. You don't see that typically before any other game. So my gut says that it was his final, certainly regular season home game.

We'll see how the playoff picture unfolds here. But I will say, Kevin, I do think it's a complicated subject or situation, I should say, for the team and for Ovechkin. And what I mean by that is I don't think it's an easy decision. I think it's, you know, given Ovechkin's time here and how he's played for 21 years and the impact he's made on this team in this city. We've seen it with other sports, right, with other great athletes. Sometimes the goodbyes could be difficult, and my gut, Kevin,

and from speaking of those inside the organization, is that maybe he's just not ready for the finality, right, to say it, and to have that as a final thing that he's done, and so maybe putting it off at least for a little while still here. Part of what makes the decision difficult, Ben, is that he's playing well, right? I mean, he led the team in goals, led the team in overall points. And this is a guy who's still playing at a high enough level, even entering his age 41 season. Nobody would bat an eye if he said, I'm going to play again.

Yeah, he still enjoys it. That's for sure. And it's interesting that come tomorrow night in Columbus for the regular season finale, it'll be game 82 for the team and game 82 for their 40-year-old captain. He will have had perfect attendance in this his 21st season. First time in

eight years he will have played an 82 game season entirely all 82 games. You know, no doubt he's played through aches and pains and bumps and bruises. He always has throughout his career. The enjoyment is still there. As far as the productivity, the goals

are certainly still there. Hard to you know, bad an eye of 32 goals. on the season again in age 40 campaign. Overall, the productivity, you know, it's not what it once was. You know, talking about his play away from the puck as well, but he has still found that knack to find the back of the net. And I think the other thing that would be missed, if he were to move on would be some of the intangibles, the leaderships.

I think there's still an ability to drag his teammates into the fight. You know, Tom Wilson's very good at that, literally dragging his teammates into fights, but as far as Ovechkin and his productivity, it's not what it once was, Kevin, and I do think that that can be acknowledged as well. Well, listening to you, it'll be interesting, it sounds like, from both, you know, ends, meaning his end on the decision and even the team's end on their decision, and they'll have time to make that decision, but it's very possible they could end up playing in the postseason before any of those decisions need to be made.

Before we get to that, I just wanted to ask you, you know, it's not been the easiest of seasons. Why do you think they're in this position of, you know, needing a lot of help to end up making the playoffs? Well, a couple of things. They dug themselves a very significant hole early on this year. They had a very tough, you could say, middle portion. of his schedule, if you want to say games 30 through 60, where they dealt with the injury bug, and particularly maybe not a household name to casual fans, but one of their centers,

Pierre Lug Dubois, he went down with injury in late October, he did not return until just before the Olympic break. He was sorely missed. He's either their top or second center, depending on the configuration of the lineup on a given night. His absence was very, very significant. were other injuries as well, not to put it all on Pierloup Dubois's injury, but that was significant.

And they dug themselves a hole, which really put them behind the eight ball. We know that they sold at the trade deadline, John Carlson, Nick Dowd, etc. Now that said, the other party, you know, you ask the question, why are they in this position? They could have been gone from the playoff picture altogether weeks ago. To their credit, have dug themselves out of that hole. They've won seven of nine.

they've played very well over the past few weeks. They've had terrific goaltending from Logan Thompson has really carried the load and the return of Dubois and the ability to kind of slide others into their appropriate slots that had a bit of a trickle-down effect, if you follow. You know, sort of invigorated them to play much better these past few weeks and even if you want to say

since they returned from the Olympic break. So let's get to the fact that the capitals are still alive. I think we thought that they were, would be dead and gone by now, but they're not. They've won three in a row. As you said, they've done a nice job of hanging in there, and they are alive for a playoff spot, but not in control. And I went through all of the playoff scenarios in the open to the show.

What I want to know from you is, will Philadelphia stumble? Like, give me, you know, the matchups here against Carolina, who doesn't seem to have that much. to play for. But Montreal, tomorrow night does. They're in a battle for that number one spot in the Atlantic Division.

So give me your thoughts on the opportunity for the caps to get in by way of, you know, a win tomorrow night against Columbus and Philadelphia is stumbling and not getting two standings points here over the final two games against Carolina and Montreal.

Yeah, so they play Carolina tonight. You're right. Carolina's into first in the division, still maybe fending off Buffalo for the top overall seed in the Eastern Conference, if that's worth much for Carolina. It's a very good Hurricanes team. In fact, Kevin, over the weekend, they did the load management bit. They rested several of their key cogs in a road game in Chicago, and they still won that game seven to two. So maybe that says something about the Blackhawks, but it could say something as well for a Carolina Hurricanes team that is very well coached, and just in general, a very good team.

That's tough challenge tonight for Philadelphia. Granted, they know themselves. If they win, they're in. So all they need Philadelphia is one win, one of these two games. Tonight, Carolina, tomorrow, Montreal, to your point, the Canadians, they might have a little bit more at stake. They're fighting for home ice advantage, potentially first place in their division. So they could have more at stake, that said, they like Philadelphia.

They also play tonight. So a lot to change in the next 24 hours as far as Philadelphia's a lot of. opponent tomorrow in the Montreal Canadian. You know what's interesting is if Washington were to snag a playoff birth, A, they're playing well right now, B, they would match up against Pittsburgh in the first round, a team they just beat twice over the weekend. That would certainly be something that the NHL I think would love to see, don't you? Yeah, of course, and I laughed at the fact that Ovechkin didn't want to do the handshake

bit with the penguins after yesterday's game, you know, sort of one of those tributes that teams across the league do for retiring players, and Ovechkin waved them off and said, no, let's not do the handshake bit. Maybe that's because, hey, if they get in, they'll do a real handshake line at the end of the series, however it turns out. So I found that funny that Pittsburgh wanted to do the handshake line, and Ovechkin waved them away said he didn't want to do that. But yet, if the capitals get in, that's one thing we do know.

whoever gets this final playoff position in the east, whether it's Philadelphia, whether it's the capitals, even an outside chance Columbus could do it whoever gets it. Pittsburgh awake. That would be the matchup, and that would be an interesting kind of bow on the Crosby-Ovechkin rivalry, if this is it for Ovechkin, if they do ultimately meet once more in a playoff series. All right, well, let's wrap it up with this. Will they get there or not? I don't think so, Kevin, because I feel like over the first.

I feel like over the next two nights Philadelphia is going to win a hockey game. Capitals could win tomorrow in Columbus. They very well could. They could end the year having one eight of ten, feeling good about themselves in that regard. I'm sure they'll be inspired tomorrow night, potentially. If it is ovies, you know, finale, et cetera, et cetera.

I just don't see Philadelphia on home ice losing two games in a row. Thanks for doing this. Hope you're well. Appreciate it as always been. Thank you, Kevin. Tonight, 7 o'clock puck drop. in Philadelphia, Carolina against the Flyers. Philly is a minus 155 favorite at MyBooky.

If they win the game, the caps are eliminated. If they lose the game in either regulation or in overtime, the caps are still alive. All right, that'll do it for today. Good to be back. Tommy will join me tomorrow.