The Kevin Sheehan Show - Washington's Place Among NFC Contenders

Episode Date: December 10, 2024

Kevin and Thom today opened with Juan Soto's $765 Million contract in New York with the Mets. Kevin went off on Mike McCarthy and the Cowboys after a boneheaded loss to the Bengals. The boys finished up with where the Commanders rank among NFC contenders.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. He is Kevin. Tommy is here. I am here. The show's presenting sponsor.

As always is Wind Donation. If you're in need of new windows, give him a call 86690 Nation or head towindonation.com. Tommy, we got this from Ken, who gave us five stars on Apple. And he reviewed the podcast saying, love the show. I'm from Dallas, a huge Cowboys fan, but I've been traveling to D.C. on business for 10 years, so I used to listen to the sports fix until it went away. I found the podcast a few months ago, and it felt like I was reunited with old friends. Thank you for that, Ken. Much appreciated.

If you get a chance to rate us and review us on Apple and Spotify, it's helpful for us. Also, follow the podcast on Apple and Spotify, hit the follow button or hit the plus button. That really helps us out a lot. Very nice review, wasn't it? We transcend fandom. I mean, our podcast goes beyond things like who you root for, who you don't root for, and we transcend at all. Yeah, I think, you know, it's not necessarily us. I'd like to think that it has something to do with us. But look, as a fan of the format sports talk for a long time, long before I got into this, because I spent a lot of time traveling and in other cities listening to Sports Talk Radio, I didn't have to be a fan of the local teams to enjoy a show. Like Mike and the Mad Dog, WFAN in New York,

is the perfect example. That's really what hooked me onto Sports Talk Radio because I was spending a lot of time in the 90s. up in New York and I would listen to Mike and the Mad Dog and they were talking about the Yankees and the Mets and the Giants and the Jets and they could spend, you know, two hours talking about a managerial decision in the Mets game the night before and it was the way they did it and it was entertaining for me even though I couldn't have cared less about the Mets. And I think that that is, look, I think it's important if you're doing local sports talk to be immersed in the local teams, and I don't think it hurts if you're a fan of the local teams.

But for an out-of-town listener, it's not imperative to them that you're a fan of teams that they're not a fan of if you're talking about those teams in a way that is enjoyable, you know, interesting, informational, provocative, whatever, you know, a program director would tell us to be. But, yeah, I mean, were you a fan of sports talk radio before you became a part of it? Well, I mean, I became a sports writer in 92.

And there was no sports talk radio. I mean, lived in Columbia, Maryland at the time. There was no sports talk radio to listen to until, you know, WTEM came on board. in 92. And that's when I started listening to it. It happened right around the same time I started writing sports for the times. And I listened to it religiously. Not any other stations, I listened locally.

You know, that was my introduction, TEM. It was the Rails brothers that started it. Yeah. You know, Mitch Rails and his brother, Stephen, started. By the way, I saw something that Stephen Rails produced over the weekend, and I'll tell you about that, maybe at the end of the show. It was pretty good. A Wes Anderson movie?

No. No, because that seems to be all we produces. So go ahead. I don't think it was. I don't think it was. Was it Wes Anderson? It's called Conclave? I don't think that's Wes Anderson.

I don't think so either. Okay, so anyway. Mitch Rails and Stephen Rails are the ones that launched the first sports talk radio station. By the way, they also did very well when they sold it. A lot different than what happened much later on. But I won't get into those details. But they saw a trend and they took advantage of it in the market.

Sports talk radio was starting to blow up everywhere. Yeah, I mean, Andy was there for the beginning. He'd come from WFAN and he's going to write a book about those. early days of WTEM. And it took them a while, you know, to kind of find their footing in terms of the right shows and the right mix and the kind of hosts that made the most sense for the format. But they, you know, they did well. And, you know, we were a part of it for a long period of time.

I mean, you were probably a part of it before I was as a guest on shows with, you know, Zabe and Andy. but yeah but you know I don't even know how this all started oh with the Dallas fan with Ken who wrote in yeah you you don't have to be

a fan of the teams to enjoy this kind of you know talk format if it's done well you know it's got to be done well that's for sure you have to be able to talk and chew gum at the same time then

you have to be able to have some some measure of intelligence. You do? You have to be able to sign your name and not X. Are you saying to listen to the show or for to actually... To actually do the show. Oh. No, to listen to the show.

I don't know if that's true. I think it is. I think we are just as capable of dumbing it down as we are lifting it up to some sort of intellectual standard that you believe is. is necessary for this show. I don't think it is. But even out dumbing down has an air of intelligence to it. It does. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how good that air smells on some days, but we do our best. You know, here's the thing. We try hard. We do. I don't know how hard you try. Yeah, one of us tries hard. I don't know how hard you try. All right. Tell me your thoughts on

Juan Soto signing with the Mets. Well, there's a lot of components to talking about Juan Soto and his $765 million deal. Let's start with what it means for baseball. I'm just amazed at how inept

Major League Baseball is in marketing itself. Of all the sports, it may be the worst. I mean, here you had the winter meetings that got started yesterday and Dallas. Their big off-season event.

It pales in comparison to what the NFL does off-season. But it's basically MLB's winter convention. And, you know, Scott Bors, you know, photos agent basically steals the show. You know? Announces on, they announce on the eve

of the winter meetings that Juan Soto has signed the richest contract, certainly in baseball history, and maybe in all sports history. You know? And if baseball was smart, they would have had a press conference, they would have had Boris up there with the commissioner of baseball,

and they would have said, look, this is what happens when you play baseball. You make $765 million, guaranteed. You don't get that playing football, okay? You don't get that playing hockey. You don't get that much in any sport right now. This is baseball.

And not only do you get that, it's a worldwide situation. The two highest paid players in Major League Baseball are international players now, Juan Soto and Shio Otney. And this is great marketing. for baseball. You don't think they got it? You don't think they got it anyway? Well, they got it in spite of themselves,

but they could have done so much more with it. You know, it could have more legs. They could have trumpeted more. I mean, basically, you know, they got it in spite of themselves. And for people saying this is bad for baseball, there's never been a baseball contract in our lifetime. That's been bad for baseball.

You know? Show me the one that has wrecked. the game. You know, they're not even A-Rod's $250 million deal that he got with the Texas Rangers, what, 20 years ago, you know, wreck baseball. Okay? People like to talk about this stuff. And they have the perfect guy in Soto who is, who basically, unlike A-Rod, is not a self-destructive

narcissist. No, he's just the opposite, which I wrote about in my column today, and it Washington Times. I interviewed Adam Eaton, who was his teammate in Washington when Soto first came up. And the one thing he kept speaking about is his lack of ego. You know, Soto's lack of ego and how he was determined to do everything he could to be the best player and the best teammate he could. You know, and that's what helped Soto build who he is. So it's a great story for baseball. And it got out there, but not because Major League Baseball. it just got out there because it was a big story.

So baseball is just terrible, continues to be terrible at marketing itself. You know, I mean, they should have had the worldwide stage. Why do they hold winter meetings in the middle of football season? That seems stupid to me. Well, because they don't play baseball in the winter, Kevin. Yeah, I understand that, but it's not even the winter. And they don't start playing baseball until April. So everything's going to be dwarfed anyway in terms of what they do.

But there's a lot of business. Look, the point of it is... I understand there's a lot of business. I understand that. I do. And you've got to have that business done before spring training starts in February. I got it. So, you know, and look, I think baseball should do more in the off season.

You just shouldn't just raise the white flag and say, well, there's no point to do it. If football's going on, you know, Some people have a wide enough bag with that they can do two different things at the same time that they can love their football, and they can all of a sudden say, oh, yeah, there's a baseball team in town. Maybe we should do something with them. You wouldn't even know there was a baseball team in town this winter. I mean, the Washington Nationals couldn't be, I mean, if they were any quieter, you know,

they'd be, I know, they'd be a soccer team. How about that? Yeah, well, all right, stick with, so number one. is baseball is inept at marketing. All right. Missed opportunity. What's next? Okay.

Let's talk about what this meant in the Dominican Republic, because I was curious about that. I have some friends, you know, from the Dominican in Major League Baseball, and I asked one of them, how did this go over in the Dominican? And Juan Soto is a hero throughout the entire island for this. The Dominican Republic is so proud of him getting this contract. And what was the big deal? Funny, it was the big deal for Scott Forrest's agent,

and it was the big deal in his homeland that he got paid more than Otani did. Back in a Dominican, that was a big deal, that they wanted to see their guy get more money than the Japanese player did. Okay. So in Dominican, Soto is a national hero for this contract. He's the man back home. As far as speculation that I've read, you know, people talking about how the national should have done everything they could to make him an offer when he was here. I mean, this is just a level of ignorance and delusion that I find troubling from some people who I thought were smart.

What do you mean? In terms of why didn't the Nats make him a real offer, the $440 million? two years ago is obviously three. That was a real offer. That was 2022, by the way. Right. Two years ago, yes. That was a real offer. Okay. I mean, if they had offered him $500 million, there was no way Boris was going to let his client take that money and not be, Boris, the only per people who knew Soto better than the nationals was Scott Boris and his company. they knew that he was a special makeup kind of player. I think he was remarkably young at the time.

You know, I mean, he's 26. He rarely have free agents with his resume being only 26 years old. So they knew that when he would come to free agency, unless he got hurt, he wasn't going to self-destruct. He wasn't going to hurt himself along the way. They knew, Boris knew, that this was, you know, know, his big free agent ticket. And there was no way that he was going to let Soto take any kind of deal from anyone else.

He was going to take this guy to free agency no matter what. Right. So there's no. And Soto has publicly numerous times expressed his faith in Boris. Right. You know, there's never been any way, a public waiver or, you know, Boris saying, oh, you know, you know, maybe I should have signed, you know, maybe I shouldn't have listened to Scott.

Maybe I should have, he'd never done that. None of that. He's been publicly supportive of his relationship with Bors. So he was never, the nationals chance to sign Soto was going to be the same chance at the Yankees, the Mets, the Dodgers, the Red Sox, and the Blue Jays had in the past couple weeks.

You know, and like I wrote my call once, you know, the learners would change their team name to Redskins before they'd spend $700 million on a baseball player. Well, that's what I was going to add. So, okay, so marketing ineptness, the Dominicans are thrilled because he got a bigger deal than Otani, and now we're to the point where we're talking about the Nats as it relates to this Soto contract. So let's just go back two years. They were never, ever going to get him signed because Boris was going to take him to free agency. Right?

Yes. Okay. And I don't understand why some people don't understand this. Well, I don't know who does and doesn't. I'm not following that. So if you want to expand on that, you can. No, I'm not going to single anybody out. Okay.

So the $440 million that they offered two years ago, do you think they knew there was no chance that he would accept it? I think my charisma knew. Okay. But I think they needed to get that clarity in, order because he would it, this was not Price Harper in the last year of his contract. Right. This was a guy who still had two more years left on his contract after that.

Right. You know, so they needed, they needed to, that was the time they would get the most bang for their buck if they traded Soto. And they did. They got a group of young players who, you know, look like they're going to be outstanding. major league players, starting with James Wood. You know, and McKenzie Gore, the pitcher, they made a tremendous deal when they traded Soto. You know, that doesn't soften the blow of not having this future Hall of Famer on the nationals.

And I think all things being equal, I think most people would have preferred if Soto never left, rather than the deal that brought all these young players. Right. So that's what I want to get to here, is that it would have been better, I think, for everybody had Soto stayed and then Soto got paid for the Nationals and Soto was still here. All right. And they have this transcendent star, this future Hall of Famer, one of the top two or three players in the game playing for Washington. It certainly couldn't hurt them on the field or at the gate or anywhere else. But what you're saying is that the learners were never, ever going to be in the hunt based on Boris looking for the largest deal out there. So they did the right thing by

trading him because they knew that they were never going to sign him, right? Yes, they did. I said that at the time, you know? It was obvious. Given the offer they made to him and there was no counter, there was no counter. There was no negotiation because Boris wasn't interested in negotiating anything until this guy became a free agent. Right. You know, so what was the point of making the offer when Boris wasn't listening to offers? Well, like I said, to get that position defined clearly.

So everybody could see that the team was going to have to move on from this guy, as it was. people were very upset, rightfully so, that they made the trade at the time. And I'd be kind of curious what the reaction is to Soto when he comes to Nats Park because he's going to be at Nats Park seven times this year. Yeah. Him and Bryce Harper 14 times at Natch Park. Right. So there was a lot, there was a lot of booing and a lot of animosity towards Price Harper,

A, because Bryce Harper is a volatile personality. But more so, I think people, Soto has been back here as a Padre, he's been back here as a Yankee, and gotten very good applause from the crowd. Because I think people understood it wasn't Soto's decision to leave. He was traded, like Bryce Harper, who left for free agency. Now, after taking the Mets money being a free agent, And I'll be curious how people react to Soto when he comes to Washington.

I don't think it'll be any different. You just said it. He was traded. He didn't make a free agency decision, although he just made a free agency decision. But Washington wasn't a team in the running. So, I mean, they weren't anywhere. They're just not at that caliber. But remember, the reason that Soto is beloved beyond being a great player

and apparently just a phenomenal person is he's a champion. I mean, he was, you know, largely responsible for them just getting through the wild card game, which then prompted, you know, the franchises World Series run in 2019. But you nailed it. They're two totally different personalities. You know, Harper's polarizing. Soto isn't. Yes.

So the 440 million. offered two years ago, you think was a legitimate offer for the time? Like it wasn't a low-ball offer? I didn't think it was a low-ball offer. You know, it wasn't an offer that they felt he couldn't refuse? No. I think if they really were determined to make him an offer, he couldn't refuse, they would have got over to $500 million mark,

which probably would have seemed insane at the time. Right. You know, to offer a player $500 million. But even that, I can guarantee you Boris would say, you know, if this guy is worth that much money in 2022, after two more years of people seeing how great he is, he's going to be worth a lot more. We're not signing with anybody. Well, I think if the learners and Rizzo and the group out there knew that there was no offer, he was going to accept, then they should have offered $500 million. because I think two years later, I think two years later, it really doesn't look like they were even close and even in the ballpark to something that he would accept.

And that's the problem. But 500 million isn't close either. Well, but at the time it would have been. And like, I just think if he wasn't going to accept any offer, why not go to a landmark number like 500 million? That's a good point. Because I think they suffer from a reputation of being incredibly cheap. And it's not necessarily true with respect to certain players over the years, but this reputation has haunted them.

And right now in this moment really haunts them because they weren't even, they appear to be literally like a third-tier franchise in major. League Baseball in a major market like Washington. You're absolutely right. You're right. It would have, why not give him an offer he couldn't refuse if you know he's going to refuse? I agree. We'll come back to the net.

Yeah, go ahead. But they just, I don't understand how they operate. Like I told you, I've told you numerous times. Most of the family wants to sell the team. Mark Lerner does not. He has intended to hold on to it. and they suffer as a result. And I don't know, you know, besides Ted Leonez,

I don't know if there's a line of people around the block looking to buy the team, to be honest with you. So they're in a strange kind of limbo. And, you know, like I said, this winter has been the winter of silence for this team. And it's year 20 for the franchise. Here's a quick thought, and you tell me, there's any, um, anything there that COVID may have cost them Juan Soto.

The revenue that they would have generated in 2020 off the World Series title. Um, and just the financial increase in, you know, in the franchise because, you know, we went back, remember during that time and looked at what they were missing out by not having a real season following a World Series title. that first-time World Series winners. I mean, I know they won it in 1925, but it's just a massive financial increase from that standpoint. And I'm just wondering if this franchise,

not to mention, by the way, the learners in commercial real estate and everything that, you know, hit them during COVID as well, I'm just curious if you think that COVID costs them Juan Soto. I don't think so. Like I said, I don't think he would. was going to sign here. I think COVID cost them a lot.

I think, look, I'm not going to, no one has a whole debate sale for the learners. No. And you're not the saddest COVID story you're ever going to hear by a long shot. But yeah, the timing of COVID, they had no chance to capitalize on sponsorship, advertising, increased ticket sales, offer their World Series championship. The next season, but you couldn't even bring fans into the stance for a 60-game season. It was a disaster for the learners financially. That being said, it wasn't a picnic for everybody else in sports either.

You know, and here's what I don't care about the learners. They spent decades trying to buy a franchise. They tried to buy the Orioles, I think, in the late 70s at one point. They were interested in the Redskins in 1999, yeah. So they spent years trying to buy a sports franchise. for what? To treat it like one of their office buildings? You know?

I mean, why do you think if they spent decades wanting to do this, they'd be more like Steve Cohen, the Mets owner. We say, okay, we finally got a team, you know. We're going to run it first class. And now, like I said, they run it like one of their office buildings with 20% occupancy. Yeah. And they're among... That's how we run it now.

And it's... They're lucky that they have a group of young players, you know, coming forward that will make the team more entertaining. But to be truly competitive now in a division where Juan Soto is with the Mets, Bryce Harper is with the Phillies, and the Braves have a tremendous team, you've got to put more on the field than a bunch of talented kids. They have to spend money this winter for at least, you know, a D.H., a first basement, both with power and another starting pitcher, to compete. Will they do it?

Will they do it? I don't think they will. Why not? Because I just, it's not the way they do business. Why? I don't know why. What do you mean? Why?

Well, it's just for the fans of this team, this is not a good ownership situation if they're not going to spend to win. And I'm not saying that every off-season is the right time to spend, but it would seem like this off-season would be the off-season to try to go out and add a lot to their payroll to try to compete in a division that you just laid out is really difficult. They could more than double their payroll from last year and still not be spending $150 million on payroll. They were 26th, I think, last year in overall payroll.

I think projected in 25 right now, they're like 17th or 18th. 26th the last year was their payroll. Yeah. And Corbyn is off the books now. The Corbyn contract is off the books. Yeah, this is the time. This, you know, Mark Lerner has publicly vowed that if, and lied, basically to everybody in an interview with some kind of,

massing program or something like that with Dan Coco a couple years ago, that whenever Mike Rizzle needs the money for players always got to do is come and ask them. Well, that's an outright lie. How do baseball franchises afford these contracts? The Mets generate $329 million a year in revenue. How do they, I know the contract's $51 million a year basically when you do the simple math, although there are escalators in there that could have it go up from $765 to north of $800 million.

How do they afford to pay with $329 in revenues and a lot of expenses? How do they afford this? That's the part I don't understand. I mean, I understand what Steve Cohen is worth, and I understand he's willing to pay the luxury tax. And didn't they just pay recently? one of the largest luxury taxes of all time. I guess that's it, right?

It's not about making money necessarily. Well, no. I mean, it's a vanity purchase. Yeah. Right? Yeah, and he's worth $23 billion. Yeah. Now, that's the problem.

That was one of the problems for the Yankees. I'm not quiet for the Yankees, you know. But, I mean, Hal Steinbrenner, the majority owner of the team, team, he relies on a lot of revenue from the Yankees. Okay? I mean, they don't, you know, it's not a hobby for him. And there are some sports teams where, you know, they rely on the revenue that the team

generates to operate. Yeah. You know, the learners don't have to do that. They could be like Steve Cohen if they wanted to. They're not as rich as Steve Cohen. They're not as rich as Steve Cohen. But they're like fourth or fifth. in terms of overall wealth in the Major League Baseball ownership rankings,

I mean, that I'm looking at here on Forbes. They're worth like $7 to $8 billion. It's a bad ownership situation right now. And again, I've said it before. I mean, they're fortunate to have a general manager who's been able to keep them afloat. Right. the Mets last year I was wrong they generated 393 million dollars in revenue their operating income they were negative 292 million so this guy does not care he doesn't need to I mean this is this isn't even a real high stakes game for him compared to the high stakes games he's been involved in during his life including some that went the wrong way from a legal standpoint but yeah I mean, the learners could play this way.

How would you operate a team? If I had Steve Cohen's wealth? Yeah. Oh, I mean, I would not be counting Nichols. Yeah. I just wouldn't. I mean, if I was worried about that, I wouldn't be investing the money in a baseball team. Right.

At that point, to own a team, it would be because. I was a massive fan and this was going to be, yeah, a vanity purchase and it was going to be something that I had fun with, not at the expense of potentially winning and destroying it like Dan Snyder did. I don't think I would have ever been like that. But yeah, no, I just get the sense that too many, you know, too many nickels are being counted. And like you said, it's like another.

building that they're, you know, 20% short on occupancy with. And that's too bad. And, of course, they would point to Scher, Strasbourg, although Strasbourg took a lesser deal to stay here. Right? I mean, that's an example that Boris doesn't like to point to, right? The player actually made the decision. Yeah, but that was a, you know, almost none of these players are pitchers.

that was a pitcher when they were willing to take Boris up on his seven-year contract extension I think Boris probably thought he died went to heaven because look I mean the nationals

I can tell you the front office was willing to offer Strasburg a three-year deal but this is what Boris does this is what Boris did with Cohen Boris gets the own the boris bypasses the front office

office. He goes to ownership, and he particularly goes after new owners, okay, who haven't been scarred yet by the Scott Boris treatment. And he, he, he, like the guy in Philly. That's what he did in Philly to get Bryce Harper's deal in Philly. He went right to the owner. Okay, this is what Boris does. Look, right now, Scott Bors is the commissioner of baseball, not Rob Manfred. were you surprised that he signed with the Mets? No. I knew people who knew him said he liked playing for the Yankees. There are reports coming out about little incidents.

John Heyman, baseball reporter, said that there was some kind of incident with Yankee security involving a member of Soto's family that had really bothered him this off season. And if Heyman is reporting it, it's probably true because Hayman has an inside track to Scott Bors and his

clients. So there may have been things along the way, but my information was he liked playing in New York, and he liked playing for the Yankees. The Yankees came up $5 million short on their offer. There was no

opportunity, at least according to the reporting to match the Mets offer, the Yankees offered $760 million. He sent the signal that they were out. What did you say? I've read reports where the Yankees let Boris know at that point that they were out. At $760. Yes. And so he got $5 million more from the Mets.

God. And really, one other thing? Just the money. It's really a five-year deal, Kevin. he's got an opt out in five years. Unless this thing really goes south, he's going to opt out. Because in five years, whatever he's getting paid, he'll be able to make a lot more as a free agent again.

So it's really a five-year deal. Maybe the learners can sell the team to Juan Soto in a few years. I always said that baseball should just give the Pittsburgh Pirates to Skyport. not even sell them. Just give him the franchise. Right. Okay? Let him own it.

Because that would accomplish two things. It would make Boris one of them, so they would have to deal with him anymore. And Boris would probably turn it a pirate into a good organization. All right. Well, yeah, he's, from a Yankee perspective, I wonder which would have been worse, had he ended up in the division or that he ended up with the,

Mets. I mean, if you're a fan of the Yankees, you don't want him in the division if he signs somewhere else. But it's also painful that he's signed with the Mets. Very painful. Yeah. Very, very, much more less logically painful. Yeah, much less logically. All right. Let's talk some football. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey everybody with the holidays creeping up faster than your aunt's fruit cake recipe. I've got something way better to share with you.

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of the league in penalties, always near the top of the league in pre-snap penalties. And, you know, one of the things I remember, you know, a long time ago, Gibbs being so focused on is one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game, is he said at one point, you know, it's the little things. You know, you've got to pay attention to the detail. If you don't pay attention to the little things, they become big things, and then you're in trouble. And Dallas has been the perfect example. They don't pay attention to the little things. I mean, they had a 12-man on the field penalty. They had another pre-snap penalty. And then last night, at the end of the game, if you didn't stay up and watch. You know, you may say, well, this is just a player making a dumb play.

They practice this. This is something that needs to be practiced. This is something that needs to be emphasized. This is something pre-snap that they have to say, remember, if it does get blocked, you can't touch it. They blocked a punt at the two-minute warning in a tie game. But the punt traveled beyond the line of scrimmage. And they had a player, Leon Lett style, that was a field goal attempt that went up and tried to field the blocked punt that went beyond the line of scrimmage. He fumbled it, Cincinnati recovered it. Cincinnati went on to get field position, retain possession of the football, threw a touchdown pass to Jamar Chase. Good God, he is. He's legendary good, Tommy. I'll get back to him in a moment. He's that good. But it's just, it's the little things.

They practice this. Our teams practice. this fire drill on block punts, behind the line of scrimmage, go get it. Beyond the line of scrimmage, it's like a regular punt. You know, and they start screaming whatever word they scream, so everybody clears away from the football. The Cowboys lose consistently on the little things with Mike McCarthy. That's why I personally don't think he's a very good coach. I think that he understands offensive football.

I think he relates to the players. I think he's not a terrible play. caller, whatever, but it's always been, since he's been in Dallas, the little things that have cost the Cowboys. They actually came out and played a pretty good football team with a limited group, you know, on offense, with no quarterback, with no, you know, starting guard, Hall of Fame Guard. They have been banged up. They're better defensively than they were, and they certainly should have won that game last night on that blocked punt. But they lost all. They lost on the details, and they always seem to lose on the details.

Couldn't happen to a better group. All good points. But you saw Troy Aikman said he thinks that Mike McCarthy's going to be back. Troy Aitman and Joe Buck didn't know how to call that play last night. That was kind of surprising to me. They weren't sure how it was going to be ruled. I'm like, guys, this is a fumble. You can't touch the ball.

It went beyond the line of scrimmage. Yeah, no. I mean, look, part of it may be that it's just that Jerry's never going to relinquish enough control to somebody that's much more capable. And so the choice, the field is limited in terms of who they could turn to. This is, McCarthy's perfect for Jerry. And Jerry stays involved. He held his press. By the way, he said something to the effect after the game that the.

punt block was not a good idea. Trying to block the punt wasn't a good idea of what he talking about. Like, his post-game, you know, press conference, not really a press conference, but his post-game that he holds with all of the reporters outside the locker room is getting more nonsensical with each viewing. Yeah. Yes. And he's older, obviously, but he's part of the show. He's part of a Cowboys show. You know, losing doesn't seem to affect them financially, does it? No. It doesn't. But, you know, it can after a while. I mean, they've won 12 games three straight years, despite the lack of playoff success. That's true. You're right. This year, there's a lot less drama here late in the season, although if they had won that game last night,

and they should have won that game last night, because the blocked punt, if they had stayed away from the football, they would have been almost in field goal range for a game winner. You know, there's still, Cincinnati still had timeouts. There's no guarantee. By the way, real quickly, I don't know how many punts I've watched that have been blocked and have gone beyond the line of scrimmage this year. But I just remember that George Allen, who really was the godfather of special teams and blocked kicks, he would always coach Bill Malenchak and others to lay out in front of the punt and cross their arms so the punt couldn't go through their arms. And nobody does it that way anymore. It's almost like players are afraid of the

ball. Like they don't want to get smacked by the ball. Like that guy last night, I think, had a chance to block the punt even cleaner than he did, which would have kept it behind the line of scrimmage. But anyway, the Cowboys were right. there with a chance to win their third game in a row to get to six and seven and be legitimately in the hunt with three games left against the Panthers, bucks, and then Eagles, and then finishing with Washington. And I don't think that they would have made it there. I just don't think they're good enough on offense with Cooper Rush. But, yeah, just I just sat there when that happened and said, the little things, McCarthy, he just gets beat consistently on these kinds of things.

And it matters in such a fine line sport. But anyway, all right. Did you watch any of the Simpsons broadcast? I did not. Neither did I, but I give football credit for trying stuff like that. You know? I give them credit for, you know, there's a whole division. at ESPN that tries to come up with different ways to broadcast their product like this.

Things like the Simpsons broadcast and stuff like that. You know, I mean, I think it shows for the NFL, which really is the biggest dog on the block, it shows the willingness to step out of the box sometimes. And I think that's good for any business. Yeah, for sure. It's not for me. First of all, I was not a Simpsons guy, so it wasn't going to appeal to me. And secondly, I like watching the games. I mean, I don't really, I don't watch a lot. I mean, occasionally, like last night, I found myself not watching the Manningcast, which was available. I really like Belichick on the Manningcast, although I'm finding that in that first half, he doesn't talk nearly as much as Peyton and Eli. do. I think Peyton and Eli end up kind of tripping over themselves to impress Belichick when he's on,

but whatever. I like watching, you know, like last night I did have interest in the game. I had the Cowboys plus the five and a half. And of course, you know, not having that opportunity after the block punt. And then even worse, Cincinnati scoring a touchdown was rather painful. Real quickly, I do want to mention Jamar Chase is truly special. He's now on the list of guys that have a chance in their first four years

to get to certain levels of receptions, yardage, and touchdowns. I mean, he's chasing Mossdown right now for first four-year productivity in his career. He's got a chance this year to win kind of the triple crown, if you will, of receiver stats.

He's leading the league in receptions right now with 93. He's leading the league in yards with 1,319. And he's leading the league by a lot in touchdowns with 15. That is a rare occurrence for a receiver. And he's about to get paid this way. He's about to get paid. And Joe Burrow talked about that he thinks they'll keep Higgins too. I think Higgins means a lot, you know,

because you can't consistently just, you know, tilt your defense in Jamar Chase's direction. But right now in the NFL, there are two receivers that are really way above, head and heels above, the next category. And that is Chase and Jefferson. And what is just amazing is to think they were on the same team together with Joe Burrow. And look, they were historic offensively that L.S. You 2019 team. All time, historic from an offensive standpoint. But Chase is uncheckable. Like it doesn't matter who you put on them, how many people you put on them. That is a receiver.

He got targeted 18 times last night, caught 14 passes for 177 yards. That is a receiver in which you say it doesn't matter what you think our plan should be. We're throwing it him and we're going to keep throwing it to him. And then they've got a quarterback in Burrow that is having an incredible season. He is leading the league in passing yards, leading the league in touchdowns, leading the league, he's not leading the league in completion percentage, but he's top five or six in completion percentage. He is having an all-time season for a five-and-eight football team. Like we've never seen this productive of a quarterback season and have the team be five and eight that really speaks to just how bad they are on defense. The Bengals are still alive, you know,

at five and eight. They do play Denver head to head, but they're three games behind the Broncos. They're three games behind the Chargers and they've already lost twice to the Ravens. So it is really a hard path. But man. they are the sunny Jerkins and Redskins. This is what they are this season is, no doubt. I mean, 44, 38 they lost last week. They lost the game a few weeks ago, 35 to 34. They lost earlier in the season 41 to 38.

They lost to Washington on Monday night football, 38 to 33. I mean, Dallas was impressive last night defensively. You know, the loss to the Cowboys two weeks ago was considered to be a very bad loss in the moment. And I'm not going to change my mind on that at all. But you've seen the formula for Dallas over the last two games, and really since Parsons came back, if they can, they can get after the quarterback. And with Dowdell, if they can run the football, and he, I think he had 130 plus yards last night, Cooper Rush is not terrible. He's not good. But if you can run the football, he's not the worst I've ever seen, although he had some throws last night that were

horrendous. But the loss to the Cowboys looks a little bit less horrible with the way Dallas has played. Only because of, you know, like you said, the way Dallas played, but in the moment, I think that loss felt bad because it was an opportunity to win. Not necessarily now, because Dallas is such a bad team. I don't think the loss looked so bad because Dallas is bad, I think the loss looks worse because

Washington had chances to win. Well, I think in the moment, it was because Dallas was bad. Dallas was a bad football team when they entered Northwest Stadium two and a half weeks ago. They were, they had been crushed week and week out.

But as far as not looking as bad now, a couple, but as far as not looking as bad a couple weeks from now, it still, to me, looks bad because Washington had so many opportunities to win. Yeah, and look, they beat the Giants on Thanksgiving, and the Bengals were a four-and-eight football team last night. So I'm not, it's just that they really, if they pay attention to the details, they beat Cincinnati last night after that block punter. They have a really good chance, and it's a three-game winning streak with the Panthers up next, and the Panthers are playing well, but that would have given them a legit. chance to get to 500

this coming week. And then you would have been saying, wow, the Cowboys are legitimately alive in this thing. So let me ask you this. Is it a good thing the commanders got the Panthers when they did? Yeah, definitely.

Yes. They've played so much better since, you know, Andy Dalton got in a car accident and he wasn't injured seriously. Nobody was, thankfully. but he was injured enough that they put Bryce Young back into the end of the game. They were not intending on playing Bryce Young that much the rest of the year, I don't think,

or not for a while. And, you know, they lost the next week with Bryce Young and his first start because I think it was right after the Washington game that Dalton got in the car accident and then hasn't played since. And, you know, coming into the Washington game, They had a running game with Hubbard, and their defense wasn't the worst in the league, although it wasn't great. But, yeah, no, they've played better.

Look, they had a chance to meet the Chiefs, Bucks, and Eagles in the last three weeks. So, yeah, they're better. Washington caught them at the right time, not that they wouldn't be able to beat them. Right, I know. But it would have been harder. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

We'll finish up the show by discussing where we're. Washington currently ranks among NFC contenders. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Euro's step around that hot take and make a play today with Robin Hood. With a 3% boost on your annual IRA contributions with Robin Hood gold, your money starts working for you. That's an easy assist without the flagrant fouls. Official brokerage in Jersey patch partner of the Washington Wizards. Investing involves risk. Three percent match required. as gold for one year from first match must keep IRA for five years. Robin Hood Financial LLC, member SIPC.

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also available at skims.com. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Well, here we are talking about Juan Soto and his days with Washington. And Shelley's back room at 1331 F Street, Northwest, in the district has a monument to those days in Washington that you can go see hanging on the wall at Shelley's. Shelley's backroom, the owner Bob Matarazzi bought at the D.C. Gray's auction last year,

a framed D.C. Gray's jersey that is signed by the entire 2019 Nationals World Series Championship team. including their coaches, manager Dave Martinez, and Juan Soto's name is on that jersey. So one of the things you can do at Shelley's besides, you know, smoking, the best cigars that you can find in Washington, besides eating off their quality menu or drinking their top shelf liquor, is take a look at the glory days of the Washington Nationals hanging up there on a D.C. gray's jersey. That's the kind of place Shelly's is. You know, it knows its truth.

It knows Washington and what things mean to the city. Right. And, you know, Shelly's means a lot to the city. The nationals in 2019 certainly meant a lot to the city. So it's a tribute to both. You can find out more about Shelly's. Go to shelley's backroom.com. I want to finish up the show, and we can do it fairly quickly.

you want me to go first with this because I think you want to copy my notes or cheat off my notes, which is fine. But I want to talk about the NFC and where Washington ranks as a contender to represent the NFC in the Super Bowl. We are now into the home stretch of the season, final four weeks, no more buys. All of these games are going to matter. I'm talking about the games involving teams that are in the playoff race. Washington's in the thick of it, that's for sure. And the NFC, from my standpoint, Tommy, has become a little bit more wide open than it's been in recent weeks. I think, you know, for a while it looked like Detroit and everybody else.

And then it was Detroit and Philadelphia and everybody else. But I think, you know, Detroit has shown that they are vulnerable. They've gotten, you know, a bit lucky in a couple of close games. Philly, you wonder whether or not if they were to get behind. Can they pass their way back into a game? I know that they have fallen behind in some games, like against Washington and Baltimore. But if they're forced to really throw the football, are they dynamic enough from that aspect to do it? Minnesota just keeps rolling and they look, you know, even better than they did a few weeks ago.

The Packers were really impressive in a lot. loss against the Lions. I mean, look at Seattle. They've won, you know, three games in a row, and they have right now the lead in the NFC West, and they appear to be a pretty good team on both sides of the ball. Tampa Bayes won three games in a row. They're now in first place in the NFC South. So the Rams with that, you know, 44-42, you know, incredible game in which they prevailed over Buffalo on Sunday. So I think that there's a sense, at least that I have, I don't know if everybody else out there has it, that the NFC is a little bit more wide open than maybe we thought a few weeks ago.

So I'm going to take the first shot here and tell you in order how I perceive the NFC to kind of, you know, be right now in terms of best opportunity to win it all in the NFC and represent the conference in the Super Bowl. and kind of the least likely to do it. So I still have Detroit number one. I just think that the Lions, even with the injuries on defense, they're so good on offense, they're so good up front. They've got the best offensive line in football, and it's probably not even close.

They have a dominant run game. Jared Goff is phenomenal, you know, with that balanced attack, play action, you know, pinpoint accuracy, really understands what Ben Johnson once done. They've got a creative element to their offense, their skilled position players, their backfield, their receivers, their tight end. They just still, even though, you know, their last few wins in this 11-game win streak that they're on, you know, they got a little bit lucky on Thanksgiving against the Bears. You know, they were in that tight one last Thursday night against the Packers.

I still have Detroit one. By the way, even with the injuries on defense, they still at times look pretty good defensively and well-coached defensively. I've got Phillyett two. Again, I'm not concerned about any part of Philadelphia's team, except for if they got behind by late, let's just say in the second half, by double digits, and they needed to throw the football to come back. Could they do it?

I mean, the likely answer to that is they won't have to do it. because they run the ball more than anybody else does. They're the only team, I think, in the league that has a higher run-to-pass ratio. They've run the ball more or called more run plays than pass plays. They're great up front. They are so good defensively. Right now, I would put them in the Vikings at the top in terms of the best defenses in the league. So I've got them two.

Three, I like the Packers. And I know Jordan Love was throwing picks for a portion of the year. but he's dialed that back. They've won three out of their last four, and that one loss was to Detroit on Thursday night football. They play Seattle on the road Sunday night. That is a really good game in the NFC. But I like the Packers.

I like a lot of what they do offensively. I think Josh Jacobs is legit. The receivers, whether it's Watson or Wicks or Dobbs or Jaden Reed, and then they've got Kraft at tight end. I like what they're doing up front defensively. especially against the run. I thought they did a pretty good job against Detroit. I mean, Jemir Gibbs had been rolling.

They held him to less than three yards per carry. David Montgomery, less than four yards per carry, which is one of the reasons I thought them going for that fourth down to try to run the clock out was a little bit dicey. I like the Packers. I also think they're really well coached. They're three for me. I'm more of a believer in Minnesota now than I've been.

I mean, Sam Darnold threw five touchdown. touchdown passes against the Falcons on Sunday. I know the Falcons are not good defensively, but they have arguably the best defense in the league. They have arguably the best receiver in the league, Justin Jefferson, Jamar Chase. Jordan Addison is an incredible number two. The tight end Hawkinson's getting healthier. The one question I would have about Minnesota is, can they run the ball enough if they really need to? They might not need to with Aaron Jones, who had a fumbling issue a few weeks ago. And then five, and this would be the first spot maybe to consider Washington, I've got Seattle. I think Seattle's a more well-rounded team right now. They are playing

awfully well. Now, it's going to be a battle with the Rams, the rest of the way for the division, but they just, you know, pummeled the Cardinals twice in three weeks. And they didn't even have some of their best players on Sunday. Zach Sharbonade is the backup running back. He's outstanding. You've got Smith and the Jigba and you've got Metcalf and you've got Lockett and they've just got a lot of skill position players on offense and I like

Gino Smith. I think Gino Smith definitely takes some risks but I like them and defensively they're healthy and they are good defensively. I think Seattle may not be and they're not as explosive as Washington is offensively. I don't think they have the quarterback that Washington has although I think

Gino Smith is fine, but I think they're more well-rounded and their defense is better. And if they win that division, they're going to play a home playoff game, probably in a three-six matchup, and that's a tough place to play. So I would give them right now the nod over Washington, who I've got at six. So I've got them right now on the list of NFC contenders at sixth behind Detroit, Philly, Green Bay, Minnesota and Seattle. I'd take Washington's offense over any in the conference except for Detroit's maybe, and that's going to give them a chance in all of these games the rest of the way,

and then in the postseason when they get there, and I do think they will. And I think they're because of how explosive they are on offense, I think that they are just a hair better than the Rams, who I have at 7, and then I've got Tampa Bay at 8, another team that's been winning games. The biggest problem with Tampa right now is just that Todd Bowles, with the secondary injuries that they've had,

just can't call the defense the way he wants to call it, but they're capable on offense, and I think they're well-coached. I think Liam Cohen's doing an incredible job as the O.C. He replaced Canales, who got Baker Mayfield going last year. Baker throws some picks. and that'll hurt him, but he makes plays too.

They've got a running back in Bucky Irving who's really coming on. You know, I like Tampa because I like Bowles more than anything else. And, you know, they're very lucky to be where they are right now because Atlanta's faltered, but they easily could have lost the game to the Carolina Panthers a couple of weeks ago. And they were life and death heading into the fourth quarter with the Raiders at home on Sunday. They play the Chargers on Sunday on the road. that's going to be an interesting game.

Two teams that are flailing a little bit right now. A team in the chargers that they're flailing a little bit right now, the losers of their last two against a team that's been winning, but the last couple haven't been super impressive. So I got the bucks there. Everybody else, Atlanta and Arizona and San Francisco, you know, Dallas, I guess mathematically, I have kind of outside the realm of describing them as a contender.

but those eight teams, I could see winning a game and several of those teams potentially winning two, but I've got Washington at six among the NFC contenders. Again, just a bit behind Seattle and just barely ahead maybe of the Rams. The Rams are like Washington in that they are very capable offensively, but defensively they give up too much. What do you think? Well, my list is pretty much exactly like yours, except I have the Rams ahead of Washington. You do. So you have the skin seven.

Yes. I mean, I think Matt Stafford is playing football as well as I've seen him play. They have such a terrific offense. And they got such a great coach in Sean McVay. I think they're coming into their own, and I think that I would put the Rams ahead of Washington. All right. That was well done. You did yours a lot faster than mine, but I think that's the way you wanted it handled. This is going to be fun down the stretch here. And the best part of it is that our team is very much right in the thick of it. All right, Tommy, that's it. I'll talk to you on Thursday, and we'll start to tee up the New Orleans game. Okay, boss.