The Kevin Sheehan Show - Washington's Plan B?

Episode Date: January 25, 2024

Kevin today with a hunch on where Washington would turn if it doesn't land Lions' OC Ben Johnson. Ben Standig/The Athletic jumped on to talk Commanders' coaching search and more. Steven Spector/610 Sports Radio/Kansas City was a guest talking Chiefs-Ravens, Eric Bieniemy's absence in KC, and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. The show, as always, presented by Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com for a great deal, which right now includes 50% off all-style windows and 0% interest rates for five years.

86690 Nation or Window Nation. Two guests on the show today. Ben Standing will be with us next. We'll talk Washington coach search. I'll also ask Ben about what plan B is if they don't land Ben Johnson, which everybody assumes they will sometime next week if Detroit loses. And then shortly after the Super Bowl, if Detroit doesn't lose on Sunday. Stephen Spector is going to be on the show with us as well. Stephen, longtime producer at 980 with us. Stephen's been in Kansas City now for a decade plus and has been a big part of the Sports Talk radio station out there. So we will talk Chiefs Ravens with Stephen. We'll also talk about what Kansas City lost, if anything, when Eric B. Enemy left

KC to come to Washington. Maybe some Taylor Swift conversation with Stephen Specter as well. Before that, a couple of things. So I was looking at the Detroit Washington game from all the way back in January of 1992. The last time both of these teams played in an NFC championship game, the last time Washington advanced to a Super Bowl and won a Super Bowl, we understand that now Washington is the longest drought NFC team between present day and their last appearance in an NFC. championship game with the Lions playing in the NFC title game on Sunday night against the 49ers. And I found the game on YouTube. It was a dominant performance by Washington. Washington had beaten Atlanta the week before in the seat cushion game at RFK in the rain 24 to 7. Detroit had beaten

Dallas 38 to 6 in the Silver Dome. That was Jimmy's first playoff team in Dallas. They had beaten Chicago in a wild card game, then gone to Detroit, and they got blown out by the Lions. And until, you know, two weeks ago, that was the last time the Lions had won a playoff game. But anyway, Washington dominated the Lions. What's interesting about that is that it was the second time that year in 1991 that Washington had beaten Detroit badly in the season opener on Sunday night football. And Sunday night football was a relatively new thing in 1991. It may have been two or three years old at that point,

but they opened up with Detroit on Sunday night football and beat the Lions 45 to nothing. It was a harbinger of things to come with the 91 skins. Brian Mitchell, by the way, a 69-yard punt return for a touchdown in that game. But then they played in the NFC title game that year, January 12th, 1992, and Washington dominated the Lions.

The Lions just didn't get much done. Barry Sanders, 11 carries for 44 yards. Richie Pettibone completely owned that Mouse Davis run-and-shoot offense, whether it was Atlanta the week before or Detroit in the NFC title game. It was just something that Richie owned as a defensive coordinator. And Detroit just didn't gain much yardage. They turned the ball over three times, and Washington rolled. Rippin only through 17 times in the game,

completed 12 balls for 228 yards. He was 12 of 17 for 228 and two touchdowns, had a 152.2 passer rating, not perfect, but near perfect. And then Biner had 62 yards, Ricky Irvin's had 53, and Washington rolled 41 to 10. Daryl Green capped off that game with an interception return for a touchdown. But in going back in Washington, some of that game and then checking on pro football reference to confirm.

I was reminded that Washington was a 14-point favorite over the Lions in that NFC title game. So that sent me down a rabbit hole trying to figure out if Washington was the largest point spread favorite in NFC championship history. And since the merger, when those things were kept, and you can find, you. find all that stuff on pro football reference. They were. Now, they were tied with another team. The 99 St. Louis Rams' greatest show on turf also was a 14-point favorite over the Buccaneers in that season's NFC title game.

They beat the Buccaneers 11 to 6. They did not cover the 14. Washington covered easily against Detroit. But the Washington 91 skins and the 99 St. Louis Rams in their NFC title games were the biggest favorites ever. And really, there's not a close second. Washington was actually a 10-and-a-half-point favorite

over the 49ers in the NFC title game after the 83 season in January of 84. By the way, you know, the Rams had... They beat the Buccaneers 11 to 6 in that NFC title game, but the Buccaneers were there because they had beaten Washington the week before 14 to 13. That was the game in which they had a 13-0-0 lead. Brian Mitchell had a kickoff return to start the second half for a touchdown.

And then it just fell apart and they had a field goal botched at the end with the Turk brothers, with the bad snap, et cetera. And yeah, Washington didn't get to that NFC title game. but actually based on the score of that game, 14 to 13 in the divisional round, that is technically the closest they've been to the NFC championship game since the last time they were in it against the Lions losing to the bucks that day, 14, 13. The Seattle game following the 2005 season that they lost 20 to 13 in Seattle when they were dominating the game early and Carlos Rogers had a chance at a pick six.

I think that was another team and a better team. The 99 team was a great offensive team, but they weren't going to beat St. Louis, I don't think, on the road. The 2005 team had they pulled off the win at Seattle. They may have gone to Carolina and won the NFC championship game. But anyway, you know, the 91 skins per the DVOA metric, I know we've talked about this before, the number one all-time team in terms of Super Bowl winners,

the number two all-time regular season team behind the 2007 Patriots. The 2007 Patriots, though, did not win the Super Bowl. They lost to the Giants. In the AFC title game this weekend, the 23 Ravens, they finished this regular season per the DVOA metric as the sixth all-time best NFL team. They at one point, with about two or three weeks left in the regular season, were pushing the number two spot where Washington was.

I think the Ravens are awesome. I think the Ravens are going to win big. I don't know if it's going to be a smell test pick, because looking at some of the early data, the actions really split between KC. backers and Baltimore backers. It's probably more likely I'll have San Francisco in the smell test and maybe both of the unders. There's going to be a lot of overplays in these two championship games. But I just like Baltimore because I think they're just better.

We'll talk to Stephen Spector about that a little bit later on in the show. Looking forward to the conversation with him. But I'm really looking forward to both of these games. I mean, getting Mahomes into the AFC title game on the road in that environment, I was thinking about this earlier today. If Patrick Mahomes plays well and they win that game on Sunday against that team in that environment, and then they go on to win the Super Bowl, but really it would be more about winning this AFC championship game on the road against that defense. At that point, I don't know if it's premature anymore to discuss Patrick Mahomes as the greatest quarterback that we've ever seen.

that defense is one of the best we've seen in years. If he goes in and plays well and wins and then wins a Super Bowl on top of that, which would be his third, look, the premature conversation would be about him being the greatest winner of all time. But after all of those home playoff games and people saying, well, it'd be nice to see him,

you know, play a road playoff game, if he goes Buffalo, Baltimore, back to back, Brady won AFC title games on the road. He beat Pittsburgh in that first AFC title game that New England had before they upset the Rams in the Super Bowl. The week after the tuck game,

they beat the Steelers on the road. They beat the Steelers on the road in another AFC championship game. I forget which Super Bowl that was. It was either the Super Bowl went over Philly or Carolina. And remember, he led New England into Arrowhead in Pat

Mahomes' first AFC title game and won that game 37, 31 and overtime. So Brady did it a bunch. Aaron Rogers, I think the only Super Bowl that he got to, they won that NFC title game over Chicago on the road. I'm pretty sure they beat the Bears on the road. Montana won one NFC championship game, excuse me, on the road.

They beat the Bears one year badly. on a frigid soldier field day on the road en route to one of his Super Bowls. But I don't know, in thinking about this first game Sunday, I can't wait to see this game. I like Baltimore. I think Baltimore is the better team, which will make me personally even more astonished if Mahomes pulls it off. And I can't see them winning without Mahomes playing well. and quite honestly, I don't see them being that great against that defense on the road. And if he is, he's in that conversation.

We start to, you know, those people that say, no, no, no, it's too early. I mean, come on. I mean, he's not in that conversation with Brady, with Manning, with Montana, with Marino, Elway, et cetera, Rogers. Yeah, he is. He's kind of, you know, approaching that level already, just with two Super Bowls and multiple MVPs, etc. I mean, if his career had ended after last year, he's a first ballot lock hall of famer. But he's about to write a new chapter if he beats Baltimore Sunday. And then in the nightcap, you know, I think I had this conversation maybe briefly with Tommy yesterday,

but I think there's a lot of pressure on San Francisco, a ton of pressure on Kyle Shanahan to get back to the Super Bowl. You know, losing another NFC title game last year, what were they going to do? They lost quarterbacks. The year before, losing to the Rams, they haven't won the Super Bowl, and yet he's labeled as this genius coach, and he is. He's a great coach. You know, I think I said about, you know, Josh Allen the other day with all of the conversation about him, if you held a draft for available NFL quarterbacks, he wouldn't go any worse.

He wouldn't go any worse than third or fourth. He might be second. If you did the same thing with coaches, Kyle Shanahan's not going any lower than fourth or fifth. But I do think there's some pressure on the 49ers this week to get it done. They were in a close call game for sure on Saturday night. And look, if they don't have Debo Samuel, they're 12 and 1 with Samuel. They're 0 and 4 with him either not playing or barely playing.

He got injured early in the Cleveland game that they lost, and then in the season finale, he played a series or two and sat because it was a meaningless game. So they are 0 and 4 without Debo Samuel this year, 12 and 1 with him. That is a big, big injury to track the rest of the week. All right, let me discuss one more thing, and then we'll get to Ben and then Stephen after that. I believe that Ben Johnson's going to be the next head coach. I believe all of the reporting. I think a week from today will be on this podcast discussing the just-concluded

introductory press conference of the new head coach of the Washington commanders, Ben Johnson, assuming Detroit loses to San Francisco. If not, we'll be talking about that introductory press conference after the Super Bowl. But I do believe that he's going to be the next head coach. And I'm excited about that. I don't know what to expect. I think this is one of those things that we just got to watch. Anybody that tells you that they have a really, really strong, strong belief

in Ben Johnson's head coaching abilities when he's never been one before, unless they really know the Detroit experience and they lived it somehow. I just think, like I've said before, crapshoot on a lot of this stuff. Even that study that I read yesterday from Hogshaven that said that it, in the last five years of the 35 coaches hired, the most successful were previously offensive coordinators without head coaching experience. Even their overall win percentage was just 536. But anyway, I'm excited about Ben Johnson.

I'm excited about whomever they hire. I'm all observation now and all trusting for right now. There's no reason not to be. My very good friend Scott Van Pelt said to me last night, I know what will get you to be all in once again on this team. And I said what? And he said, if they draft Jaden Daniels. I do love Jaden Daniels. I do.

But I would have no problem if they draft Drake May. If that's who they decide is right for this organization and the new coaching staff, that's fine too. If they decide they're not going to draft anybody at number two a quarterback. They don't like any of them, and they're going to trade back, and they're going to leverage the hell out of that spot. I'm going to trust for the time being. And the time being means, I think, at least a couple of years, right, before we can really, you know, be constructively critical of what they're doing right now. Anyway, that's not what I wanted to get to. I'm getting sidetracked.

If for whatever reason, the Ben Johnson Plan A, which I do think it's their plan A, if it were to fall through and not happen. I believe their plan B would be Dan Quinn. Now, I think they're impressed with a lot of people that they've interviewed. I think Rahim Morris interviews very well. But I believe that Dan Quinn would be plan B. That doesn't thrill me. But again, I would trust that they know what they're doing,

that Dan Quinn just had one terrible day in the biggest game of the year, that playoff game. By the way, have you seen some of the attacks by family members of C.D. Lamb and Micah Parsons on D.C. Scott? My God. There's a lot going on in Dallas following that embarrassing loss. And what's interesting is not that family members are on social media ripping Dak Prescott, C.D. Lam's mother, Micah Parsons, his brother. It's that no cowboy, as of now, has come to his defense publicly, which I find more interesting. But anyway, I digress. Dan Quinn, I think, really impresses people when he interviews. And I'll leave it at that. And again, I think it's going to be Ben Johnson. At this point, I'd be surprised if it isn't. But anything can happen here over the next few days. You know, it doesn't look like the Harbaugh as of this recording is done in L.A. And there's a lot going on at Michigan. and if that job is then available to somebody other than Harbaugh,

maybe they come hard and fast after Ben Johnson. Maybe Tepper's money ends up being what wins the day with Ben Johnson. Who knows? But I think Ben Johnson will be the new head coach. But if he isn't, Dan Quinn would be, I think, the fallback plan. And who knows, maybe somebody else is going to hire Dan Quinn before that. Seattle seems to have interest. All right, let's get to Ben Standing.

right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and they'll give you a cash bonus on your initial deposit. MyBooky's point spreads right now for the two championship games are as follows. They've got Baltimore at minus three and a half. I've seen some minus fours out there. So if you like the Ravens Sunday like I do, go bet it.

at MyBooky. They've got the 49ers at minus 7. The totals in the game, 44 and a half in the AFC title game, 51 in the NFC championship game. And right now, believe it or not, the favorite to win the Super Bowl at My Bookie, the 49ers at plus 150, followed by the Raiders of plus, followed by the Ravens, excuse me, at plus 180, the chiefs at plus 375 in the last. Lions at plus 800. The reason the 49ers are a slight favorite is they have a better chance of winning the title game and advancing to the Super Bowl than the Ravens do with the Chiefs as their opponent. All the prop bets are available at MyBooky. MyBooky.ag, you've got to use my promo code, Kevin D.C. to get the cash bonus on your initial deposit.

it. Jumping on with us, as he has many times in the past and is doing it today is our good friend Ben Standing from the athletic. Let's start with the football team. As of 1-10 Eastern Time here on Wednesday, January 24th, what's the percent chance that Ben Johnson is the next head coach? Starvin-all-thought. I don't know. I know you hate it when like we don't want to give a percentage chance, But I really don't know. I mean, like, you know, what is hard to tell is when everybody seems to be to guess and if Ben Johnson is a clear favorite, how much is that is a real and how much of that is an echo chamber?

I mean, you know, as we know, starting from the point that Bob Myers was hired, it showed that these guys have been, you know, the Josh Harris group has been, you know, really quiet about everything. They've been pretty stealthy. And for me, I don't think that's changed. in terms of getting information and I listen to you and you have a guest on. I talk to people around the league.

I don't get the sense that anybody is very definitive or confident on anything other than to say it seems likely that Ben Johnson is the lead. I do think there's a little, I still think there's some noise out there about Rahe-Morris and Dan Quinn and Mike McDonald. But, you know, again, it's all relative to who you're talking to and who wants to pitch you that angle. Again, obviously, if they want an offensive mind, then Ben Johnson would certainly be the guy.

The question is, for me, just because you can draw up really good plays, are you the guy that can stand up in front of the whole locker room and get the players motivated, focus, whatever you need to do to get the job done? It's not just about calling the X's and O's. And that's the unknown, I think with any of these coordinators, other than, say, a Dan Quinn who's been a head coach, and same with Rahim Morris.

I would say Ben Johnson's a favor, but, you know, I don't want to say 51 or 83 because I honestly just don't know, but it still feels like it's Ben Johnson in the lead regardless of what I'm hearing. I'll be a little bit more fearless than you. I'll make a prediction. I'll say that there is a 75% chance. No, I'll go higher than that. 76% chance that Ben Johnson is the new head coach in Washington. But let's just for a moment consider the possibility that it doesn't happen.

Who do you think their number two is? Yeah, this is a great question. I know you've got some Dan Quinn thoughts. I know that if we go back before Dallas got smoked by Green Bay, you know, entering the coaching search cycle, you know, it felt like Ben Johnson was number one. Dan Quinn was in the next guy, and maybe even for some would be ahead of Ben Johnson if you wanted an more experienced candidate. Then obviously, you know, a disaster game against Green Bay. One game should not knock anybody off, you know, off a tier just because of that.

But obviously, it would be a little bit tougher sell. I'm, boy, I'm sort of all over the place. I just had on my podcast, our guy Ted Gwynn, who's one of the better I could film an analyst out there. And I had him specifically go through what the Ben Johnson offense, what's a Mike McDonald defense. And then in the end, I said, okay, well, you've got to pick one. You know, you can look at Washington situation or just in general, who would you pick? And he said he would go with Mike McDonald as the head coach. So I, you know, this is, if you ask me tomorrow, I might say a different answer.

I don't know. I guess I'll say Mike McDonald's just because Ted did, but, you know, again, I don't know that Washington feels the same. I had somebody tell me they don't think Mike McDonald's the lead for any of the opening job. And Dan Quinn would make a lot more sense, but is Dan Quinn going to Seattle or have they changed their mind? you know, they just had a defensive coordinator, or a defensive coach with Pete Carroll. Maybe they want to go with a guy like Dave Canales, who was their former QB coach who went to Tampa this year to be their OC.

He helped resurrect Gino Smith and Baker-Mayfield. Maybe that's where they want to go. But if Dan Quinn goes to, you know, if not, then Dan Quinn probably goes to Seattle, and that takes him off the board. So it is a fact, it is really interesting. This is one of the more, I think, fascinating. I mean, we even had a real coach search here in a while, right?

I mean, it felt like Ron was pretty much the obvious choice in the beginning, and even Jay Gordon, it always kind of felt like it was his to lose. So this is a really interesting scenario. I guess I'll go McDonald's, but by tomorrow I might go Quinter Morris. You know, the name that just keeps getting left out of all of these conversations with any of these openings, and it's just very surprising to me is Mike Vrable. I don't understand it. he is the best, other than Belichick and Harbaugh, the best known coach.

And by the way, the one that could be around the longest if you hire him, because Harbaugh typically has a short run, short shelf life, and Belichick's 72 years old. I don't understand why Vrable may get left out of this whole picture. Yeah, no, I mean, look, he's been interviewed in some spots, and, you know, I kind of keep thinking, like, if Carolina, you know, David Tepper is going to be in this tough spot now the way, by his own fault

of being too meddling, that, you know, if he wants a bigger name, similar to the way Dan Snyder did for years, that Mike Grable might be the obvious choice, you know, give him, you know,

some power, that the Panthers did just promote their, essentially their assistant GM to the GM role, Dan Morgan, and they're expected to hire a vice president of football. Yeah. Yeah. the paint, yeah. So, you know, so I don't know if Vrabel, if that works for Vrabel per se.

But, yeah, I mean, look, he could end up in Seattle. I think the one thing I had surprised me a little bit here with Washington, and this may go to your point of why Ben Johnson really is a big favor, is that they haven't added to their interview list since Adam Peters came on board. But you would think that, like, he would have some of his own thoughts, right? But that has but that hasn't happened. And then, like, you know, Mike Rable, just to use him, if he came open, you know, right after, I think Washington initially kind of put out their feelers. So that is a little surprising to me, but that also may be an indication of, hey, we like Ben Johnson.

We're not going to, we're not going to complicate this. You know, we like Ben Johnson. If he, you know, we're going to go all in for him, somehow that doesn't work, then, you know, we're good with these other names. But, yeah, I'm with you. I thought Rable would at least get a look here, not not the other. check, not Harbaugh, but I did think Rable might have a shot to get an interview

here. Yeah. So, let's just assume for this part of the conversation that it is Ben Johnson. The biggest higher after that will be the defensive coordinator because, you know, I've read

Nikki mentioned Hank Frailey's name, you know, who is the O-line coach in Detroit and he'll take some of those people, perhaps him as an offensive coordinator here with them. Have you thought about the Joe Barry's available, Skins fans. Joe Barry's available if you want him as the defensive coordinator. I don't think anybody does. But if you thought about defensive coordinator, have you heard any names that would come with Ben Johnson?

You know, I'm not sure if there's somebody on Detroit staff that is viewed as like an up-and-coming what coordinator. You know, that would obviously be someone. I don't know. I don't know that I've heard this connected with Ben Johnson, but I will say this. You know, one aspect of Ben Johnson will be, you know, he's not going to be too familiar with his roster, same with Adam Peters. But one person who would be, at least on defense, is Chris Harris, the former defensive backs coach. He is now with the Titans.

He left there before the season to become their defensive passing game coordinator, and, you know, he's also still coaching the cornerbacks. you know, of all the, it was discussed at times, but his departure, I think, was a huge loss for this, for this defense. I mean, the secondary, which had so much promise after the 2022 season really took a step back once he left, and they brought in Brett Reefs-Meyer, and then before firing him along with Del Rio after Thanksgiving. So, you know, he's getting interviews for that, and I think while that would be a little bit, make me a little nervous about having, you know, first-time head coach, a first-time

DC, and all that, but he does know the personnel here. So I wonder if that is an interesting name. And then, you know, the other part is like, you know, let's just say Carolina hires Mike Brable, or whoever they hire, they go outside the building. You know, now all of a sudden

what does that mean for their staff? And their defensive coordinator, Everrow, he's considered to be like one of the brighter young coaches around the league. Does he all of a sudden, spring free. And if so, you know, could you make a run

at him? I mean, that's the thing. The field that we're all looking at for coordinators and coaches could change, you know, so much dramatically once these final hires are made, because clearly these head coaches are going to want to bring in their own people, right?

So I think that, I think those are a couple things to keep an eye on. Adam Peters, Ben Johnson combined. What does that say for you about the quarterback that they would draft, if anything? Yeah. You know, if you look at Detroit, I mean, I guess I feel, but like assuming Caleb Williams is

off the board, that Drake May, the North Carolina quarterback, feels like a better fit for what Ben Johnson is doing. I mean, you know, we don't see a ton of RPO's with Jared Gough, which may say more about Jared Goss, athleticism or not, versus. is what Ben Johnson wants to do. But with Jaden Daniels, the LSU quarterback, you know, that's a completely different type of quarterback. You know, the RPO, the dual threat,

not saying Ben Johnson can't do that. I'm just saying based on what we know, it doesn't look that way. But they're going to have three months to toy with this, to figure this out. Obviously, I'm sure you discussed, like Mel Kuiper had, Jayden Daniels going number two to Washington. Again, he doesn't know who the coaches.

But, you know, I think that Daniel versus May debate is going to be, you know, come talk to me in April, how excited I am to keep talking about that. But that's what we're going to be discussing here for the next several weeks. But if you're telling me, Ben Johnson's a coach, I mean, I guess I would lean Drake May just based on what we know of his offense. So I had this guy on the radio show today. Ryan Fowler was his name. I've had him on before. He is a draft analyst with the draft network. also with Bleacher Report. I think he actually used to write for the team's website. I may be wrong

about that. But that aside, he wrote a story the other day talking about the quarterbacks outside of the draft. Like if you're not going to be able to draft one, what's available? Well, Justin Fields may be available via trade. Russell Wilson may be available. And Kirk Cousins will be the top quarterback free agent in this year's free agent class. In fact, you know, along with Chris Jones, he'll probably be one of the top two free agents when we get to March, period, at any position. And he suggested three fits for cousins. And I'll ask you about fields here in a moment, but he suggested three fits for cousins in one of the teams was Washington. And he just said, if Adam Peters ends up hiring Ben Johnson, if you watch Detroit's offense, the kind of offense they like to run with Jared Gough, it's perfect for Kirk Cousins.

So hypothetically, if they didn't like any of the quarterbacks in the draft, if due diligence revealed things that made it unacceptable for them to take, Caleb Williams, Drake Mayer, Jaden Daniels at number two overall, do you think that there's, any chance, just a hunch. I just want your hunch that Ben Johnson might be interested in Kirk Cousins. Well, he might be, but I doubt Josh Harris is. I don't see. I mean, the simple reality is this. If you add Kirk Cousins to this team and you make reasonable draft choices and you use some of that free agent money on whatever, although you're using a lot of it on Kirk Couss at that point, is this team a contender? And I know, for something, right? And I know in the NFL, fortunes can change quickly, the Houston Texans, the latest example going from the number two pick to winning a playoff game, but you can't look at this roster and tell me that adding Kirk Cousins is going

to put this team in anywhere more than the 500 level. I just, it's hard to believe that right now with the amount of holes that they have. I mean, so I don't think it makes any logical sense to do that if you're talking a multi-year deal. It's sort of like, all right, look, we want to build this team up. We'd rather trade down the number two pick, get a bunch of stuff, but we don't want this team to be completely in the tank, you know, next year the way it kind of was this year. So maybe we go out and get somebody to a one-year deal, I don't know, but that would be like the only kind of way I could see it. Or I mean, like if you draft the QB it too, which is that what you're discussing, and then you bring in the Jacoby-Berset type,

you know, maybe there's that. But other than that, I don't know. in my story you mentioned the other day on the radio, the top ten things that Adam Peters, the organization are going to have to do over the next, you know, several weeks. And one of them for me was figure out the plan with Jonathan Allen. And the reason I bring this up here is because the issue is, forget whether he wants out or not. I don't think it's as big of a deal as maybe we made it out to be.

But the question is he's 29 years old. he's going to probably want a new deal and extension something because there's no guaranteed money left and the cap numbers are pretty high if you want to lower that but does it make sense to give him an extension if you don't think you're going to be a contender

or in the mix for the next couple of years right because now you're paying a guy a lot of money for a team that may not win a ton of games I think what they do with him is going to say a lot about their projection for themselves and if the projection is we want to turn this thing around quickly then I can see him getting a new deal, and then maybe the quarterback comes into the play.

But beyond that, I just can't really understand why they would spend a ton of a quarterback with where this team is right now. I agree with a lot of what you said, and I think from an age standpoint, that would be the reason not to be interested in Kirk Cousins. He's going to be 36 years old. But, you know, when Detroit acquired Jared Gough as part of the compensation for Matt Stafford, there was no real idea that it would be turned around as quickly as it got turned around, that they would be in the NFC championship game two years after that deal.

Jared Goff had familiarity with Brad Holmes, of course, the general manager, and he was happy to take that contract back, and they got a lot of picks in the deal as well. But they were, you know, they were three and 13, I think, in that first year. They were nine and eight and improved last year. And I think everybody thought that they had a chance. chance to be a good team this year, but not necessarily an NFC championship team. I guess my point would be you can turn around an NFL team pretty quickly if you get the quarterback matched with the right offensive designer scheme play calling guy. And you've got picks in cap space to support that.

I'm just considering the possibility because it's not an impossibility that they don't love two of the three quarterbacks that maybe they're going to be left with the option of selecting at number two overall. What about Justin Fields? I guess it depends what you think of Justin Fields. I'm not particularly that enamored with him. I know that he made progress this year, as the Bears overall did, with a really strong second half. He certainly looked pretty good in week five against Washington. But, you know, I don't know. I mean, the issue with Justin Fields is he's going to to the fourth year of his contract, which means if you're going to trade for him, you pretty

much are saying you're going to extend him. Forget that's picking up the fifth year option, that you were going to probably extend him, which means he's a salary goes soon from being a on that working contract to getting paid a lot of money. And this is the rub why I think Chicago is going to go Caleb Williams, because not only is Caleb Williams of the higher ranked prospect, it appears, but he's going to start the working contract all over again. So they're going to roll out Justin Fields,

start over there, get stuff for him. Again, if you're Washington, you basically are not just saying you like Justin Field, you think he's the guy for the next few years. And like I said, I'm not there. I mean, I'm not there on him. I, you know, admittedly it's not breaking down all the tape, didn't see all the games for the Bears.

And, you know, you got to hope Adam Peters has a better feel. and for what to make a field of the prospect than you or I do, but I don't know, I'm not seeing it with Fields. If I'm going to pass on the quarterback at two, I don't know, somebody just tells me that Fields wouldn't be the guy for me either.

So I don't, look, if the cost is reasonable enough, you know what, maybe say screw it. We'll make the deal, we'll play out the rookie contract and see, but,

you know, now you're tying yourself up for the next couple years, at least with a guy who, you know, like I said, I don't particular think of all that. If they really didn't like the quarterback, right, obviously then they're going to trade out. You would think of too because somebody's going to want to trade up. Yeah. And if they trade out, trade down, you know, now all of a sudden, other things come into play. Like, I'm not a big J.J. McCarthy guy, but okay, some people seem to like him.

Michael Pennix Jr., Bo Nicks. Right. Again, not what do you like them or not? Now all of a sudden those guys become up in play if you move down. it's not like it would definitely give up on the quarterback, but yes, I mean, it would be a different between picking one of those guys at two versus trading down and getting one of these other men. What do we know about the front office right now? Peters has been here for a week or so. There's been no news with respect to additions or subtractions. What are you hearing on that front? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, again, the challenge with the front office hired is that, you know, teams have been. and studying the draft and for agency and so on, you know, for weeks and months now.

And teams are not always going to be, you know, willing to let people go from their building now. If it's for a higher, you know, a better title than they may not have much of a choice. But, you know, I'm sure people at Peters would want are possibly stuck where they are until after the draft, per se. I mean, you know, if you go back and look at what happened here when Ron Rivera came in, you know, he didn't really make any change initially. I think he brought in Eric Stokes that first year, obviously Rob Rogers to handle the contract. But, you know, those guys are probably on their way out anyway after the, you know, the changes that were going on there. He kept Kyle through the draft, you know.

Right, Kyle Smith and Tim Gribble were still here. They stayed through, and then it wasn't until after the draft into the offseason to next season. reason when Rivera started to phase out some of the internal people and eventually get the table set to bring in Marty Herney and Martin Mayhew. So it could be kind of that deal. I think what's interesting is next week is the Senior Bowl in Mobile Alabama, and I'm sure Washington is going to send a good contingent of scouts and others. The wonder is who else is going to be there. I think if I had to guess Adam Peters eventually does get there next week, week, don't panic if somehow he misses a day or two.

It's important, but he'll be fine if he's not there. But somebody's going to have to be there. Somebody's conducting interviews. And does that somebody show us an indication of who is staying and who is going, right? Is Martin Mayhew there? Is it Marty Ernie? Is it none of them? You know, that could be interesting or at least an indicator of, you know, like I said,

of the current staff who is good and who's possibly on their way out. Are they going to pick up the fifth year option on Jamie Davis? I would assume the answer would be no. I mean, look, Jamie Davis has made some incremental improvements, and it's hard to come down too hard on any of these players after what we've seen with his defense, you know, the ups and downs over the last couple years. But, you know, we just have, I have not seen enough from him to make me to think he is going to definitively turn this thing around,

and therefore I'm going to, you know, lock him in as a starter for this team for an extra year. So I don't think so. I mean, he's also got these legal matters going on with excessive speeding, reckless driving. I don't know if any of that comes into play. It is expected from last we had heard that it could get some few days of jail time out of it. I don't know if that's going to have Adam Peters and everybody else going, maybe we just, you know, play this year out and go from there. So I'm going to guess no that they would not pick it up.

The franchise tag deadline comes much earlier than that. I think that's early March. Is there a player that you think Adam Peters will use the tag on? No, I can't comprehend that. I mean, the only one that you can't even like this. I mean, you're going to get, now you're paying him one of the highest salaries at that position. Right. Again, you know, I'm always cautious whether we want to say somebody's really good

or underwhelming, we're typically looking at it through the lens of just this team. You have to look at it in the lens of the entire league. But I don't know. I'm not getting the sense of Cam Curl is a good player. Obviously, if they could bring it back at a good number, sure. But to make him, you know,

I mean, he doesn't generate turnovers. He hasn't in four years. You know, and obviously the defense was kind of what it was this year, not that it was on him, but, you know, it wasn't like there were too many games here going, wow. Sam Curl was so unbelievable but everybody else fell apart.

So I don't see a tag on him bringing it back. Sure, maybe, but not I don't see the tag. All right. I want to shift to a completely different subject with you specifically because of your involvement in covering this team in town for many years. And that is, I want to talk about this interview that Martian Gortat did the other day

in talking about his days with the Wizards. For those that don't remember, he was a part of the Wizards teams that with a very young John Wall and Bradley Beale made the playoffs several years in a row. One series, the first year in the playoffs, they beat the Chicago Bulls in five games, lost to the Pacers in six.

The next year they swept Toronto and really had a chance to advance to the Eastern Conference finals, but John Wall got injured. And he was a big part of that team. And he did an interview with Hoopshype.com. I always found him to be an incredibly engaging, great sense of humor, smart, interesting athlete in town. I probably had him on radio, I don't know, two or three times during those years.

I want to read a couple of things that he said. So he was asked about what went wrong during his time here. And he said, quote, Well, as crazy as it sounds, I will say that we probably should have kept Randy Whitman as a coach. Yeah, I know that that sounds crazy, but we should have done that. Why? Because he was the only coach that was able to control John, and they were bumping heads. And I was bumping heads with Randy. Randy was a hell of a good coach, and he knew what he was doing. He was able to control John. He was able to control Bradley, and he was bringing the right people on board from a player standpoint.

and we were missing, we were missing maybe that one, maybe two good role players for us to make a bigger run. And then we needed some luck in John broke his hand in the second or third game against Atlanta in the conference semifinals. So we needed luck. Randy should have stayed as a coach and added one or two better signings to the organization. Overall, we should have done better, but we had an incredible team. And then he gets into the description of the team, which is a little bit inflated. and overdone. But still, he says, back in the day, when you sat in the plane, when we were flying to another city,

we didn't care where we were flying because we knew what we were bringing. We were bringing a freaking storm when we showed up. We had so many weapons. We had so many levels. John, Beal, me on the pick and roll, nay, nay, inside. Oh, my God, we were a hell of a team. And I mean, we were unbelievable. Then that year we had Otto Porter coming up the bench.

Trevor Reza is starting. Andre Miller was coming off the bench. We had a squad. However, now we only have memories. Like I said, we should have kept Randy Whitman. That team wasn't quite that good. Nowhere near it actually. But it was the best team that, you know, the, I think it was better than the Gill teams

and the Koran teams in terms. of their overall ability to advance in the postseason because they were better on both ends. But that was interesting. And for me, Ben, I sat there day in and day out, and I said, you people that think Randy Whitman can't coach don't know anything about basketball. He is by far and away a million times better

of an exes and O's coach than Scott Brooks is. It's not even close. Ask any basketball person, and they'll tell you that. And I always liked Randy, and I always thought they were well-coached, and Gortat kind of confirms that. There's more to this, but give me your reaction on that. Well, I think what's important to note here, and, you know, look, I'm not afraid to ding Ted Leonis for questionable choices. I'm not going to ding him, though, for firing Whitman, even though, you agree with everything that you just said, and Gortat said. but here's it was a lot of perception versus reality.

When Whitman became the head coach, you know, this was classic Ted. They fired Flip Saunders, the late Flip Saunders, and the assistance were on the book for another year for whatever reason. So Ted decided not, he didn't want to pay two stabs. He just made Whitman the interim and then the head coach, even though Whitman at that point had like the all-time worst winning percentage of any coach who's coach X amount of games from two. other stops with bad teams. So automatically nobody was excited for this hire, right? But then

they get incrementally better. And the thing is that this was an organization that coddled their players far too much as well, to some degree led to Gilbert Arena's career. Flaming out. It led to John Wall. And that was a combination of Ernie Grunfeld and Ted Leonez's. But Rayby Whitman, a guy who played under Bobby Knight, didn't care about any of that stuff. And also I think when he became the coach here, what did he have to lose? He's already, you know, again, this is like a bonus

for him to get this opportunity. So I do think he was not, you know, battling down to these guys. He was calling it like it was. And it was when they were the most, you know, in hindsight, in particular,

the most disciplined, you know, again, all things being relative. And I think, unfortunately, when he was let go, John Wall, you know, I think did kind of lose that edge.

You know, as a guy who was like, overweight, I always hesitate to call these guys out for such things. But John Wall would show up in training camp, definitely not in NBA, not in basketball shape. And then obviously in later years, we've seen, you know, I'm not questioning whatever he's doing, but we've seen

some questionable decisions that he's doing off the court, at least in the eyes of 10th and others. And I think that for Andy Whitman had stayed, I do wonder how this could have gone. And to connect this to the watch, to the commanders, I think it's very similar. If you had said after Scott Brooks' first year, they win 49 games, one game away from the first 50-win season since like what, 78, 79, 79, every year was.

And then similar to the football team here, Ron Rivera, the first year, sure, the record's not great, but coming off a three-win season, they win the NFC East. If I told you at that point that neither Scott Brooks nor Ron Rivera would have finished their career here viewed as a better coach compared to the person that they were placed, they've got really good odds to take those bets, but that's how it played out. Scott Brooks, a massive disappointment to me. I've heard all the stories about why he wasn't a good coach for O.K.C., but, you know, until you sort of see it for yourself, you can't tell. he just seemed to let the players kind of get away with whatever. And on the court, I don't mean like lifestyle, but it's just like on the court.

And, you know, obviously Rivera didn't work out as we know. So, yeah, it's a fascinating look back that Whitney Whitman, getting rid of him would have been the move. Or what was it was a bad choice? We should also remember part of the Scott Brooks scenario was trying to make a play for Kevin Durant. He obviously coached Durant OKC that had. to be some factor. Needless to say, Durante didn't even give him an interview. Yeah, did not.

No visit. For our meeting. Gortat talked a lot about John Wall, and I would encourage any Wizards fan to read this, because it was some good stuff about Wall. And I retweeted the story. But here's something that's more appropriate for today. Doc Rivers being hired by the Milwaukee Bucks

after they fired Adrian Griffin yesterday. Rivers back in coaching after a brief stint in broadcasting would be interesting to see the bucks and the 76ers in a playoff series in May but he would he played for for doc in Orlando and he said I didn't have the best time with Doc Rivers unfortunately he's a good dude and great to talk with incredible stories rich history however I wouldn't trust his coaching decisions I just don't have confidence in them he said I I played for one of the best coaches ever in Stan Van Gundy. I always thought Stan was a really good coach, too.

He's an incredible coach, prepares you for every game. I played for Randy Whitman, who was a great coach. I'd say the same thing for Alvin Gentry. But back to Doc, I just don't trust him. I couldn't trust him, and that's it. Man, you know, I've never thought watching Doc Rivers that he was like some exceptional genius on the sideline. Great dude, clearly.

I mean, first of all, I mean, whatever, Gortot. I think Gortot just as awesome as an interview, and he's so brutally honest. But what do you make of what happened in Milwaukee? Yeah, I mean, you know, I have not been paying close attention to the NBA relative to my norm because of just this job and all that. But so when this happened, when they fired Adrian Griffin yesterday with, what, a 33 and 10 record? 30 and 13. Wait, what? Oh, okay.

Yeah, so I hit up, you know, a couple of people I know, you know, around the league, cover the league, whatever. I'm like, what's going on here? And they seem to say it was a pretty like kind of open secret that he just, as a first year coach, was just incredibly overwhelmed by the situation, that he just was not able to, you know, function as a main head coach. You know, whatever that exactly means. I'm sure it's been discussed out there.

So, I mean, to see that kind of a record and somebody, it would have been like saying when Jim Zorn was six and two firing him because you could see what was coming. Right. I guess, right? I mean, obviously we know how that went down and in hindsight, we're all like, boy,

how could they even hired him? But when he was six and two, it was like, oh, okay. I guess this is pretty interesting, but it's so bizarre. So on the one hand, it could be like an addition by subtraction. On the other hand, no doubt Doc Rivers will stabilize

whatever they felt was the problem, but his coaching career is littered with underwhelming performances, blown leads in the playoffs. You know, I don't, you know, yes, he did win a title with the Celtics. That was forever ago. You know, guys in his NFL draft weren't born

when that happened, right? Or well, or maybe that's, That's not exactly right. But you know what I mean? It's been a while. Again, that can't be right. That math doesn't work. But, you know, it's been a while since he's, since he had that level of success.

So, no, I don't, I mean, it might be enough. And with Yonis and Dane, they obviously have a very talented team. And maybe that's enough. But, you know, Docs had plenty of other talented teams that just came up short. Yeah, I agree. I think it's interesting, man. 30 and 13 and you get fired. And it clearly means that you are two best players, Yonis,

and Dame Lillard just didn't want him. I mean, they're not going to make the move without that particular support for the move. Yonis in particular. So he just must not have... Supposedly, Janice is the one that wanted him in the first place, but I don't know. Yeah. Well, there we go. There's a lot of Kyrie Irving in memories of that in New Jersey.

Not that those two individuals are comparable in any way, shape, or form. All right. Thanks for doing this. I'll talk to you end of the week on radio. Sounds like a play, man. See you. One of my favorites, Ben Standing. He does such a great job covering the team for the athletic.

He did a great job covering the Wizards for, actually, I don't think he covered the Wizards for the Athletic. Did he? I think it was NBC Sports Washington. See, you know, I've been friends with Ben for a long time. Nobody paid attention to Ben when he was covering the Wizards except for a few of us.

Now everybody pays attention to Ben. And he's become a star on the beat covering the team. He does a great job. Four championship teams, two championship games this weekend. We're going to find out about one of those teams with our old friend Stephen Specter out in Kansas City. We'll ask him a little bit about Eric B. Enemy and Taylor Swift as well. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Before we get to Stephen Spector, I want to tell you about magnin Motors.com.

Magnin Motors is a premier high-line exotic dealership new to the DMV. They specialize in clean, low-mile, and unique spec vehicles, and they've got all the big brands like Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren. Every car goes through a 110-point inspection and is backed by an extensive warranty. Financing and leasing is available on all vehicles, and you will get to deal with an expert staff that has, an average of 20 years of experience. If you're interested, go to magden motors.com.

That's M-A-G-D-E-N-Moters.com. All right. All right. Jumping on with us right now is an old friend, Steven Spector, who worked at 9-80 for years. Stephen, every time I have them on, we always remind each other that we were together on the day

of the August earthquake back in 2011. Many of you have heard that sound clip many times. Maybe I'll add it to the end of the show. But Stephen's been in Kansas City as the program director at 610 sports in Kansas City for 11 years now and is dealt with nothing but winners. The Chiefs have been winning. The Royals have been good at times. and it's been quite the ride for you in Kansas City. And here we are again. I mean, a lot of people thought watching this regular season, this might be the year.

Casey gets beat. They're going to have to play a road playoff game, et cetera, et cetera. Well, they got through the road playoff game in Buffalo, and they're headed to Baltimore for the AFC championship game. Are you surprised even a little bit? I'm very surprised because I was one of the people that was, out on this team, and that was starting in November. And I'm sure you can go back on my Twitter timeline.

I said, this is not a Super Bowl team coming off that game in Germany in which they, you know, they ended up beating the Dolphins that day, 2114, but didn't score a point in the second half. And, you know, the reasoning behind it I thought at the time was pretty logical. They didn't have any weapons on the outside. There were holes on the offensive line. Pat was playing kind of his worst football in the five years that he'd been the starting quarterback, and there was not a lot to like about this team on the offensive side of football.

The defense has always been there. But when you looked at in comparison to the six-year run, they've always had the Hill, the Kelsey. Kelsey has not been himself, you know, at age 34, there is no more Tyreek Hill. Pat not playing his best football. I was out on this team in November. and the last two weeks, I've had to put my foot in the mouth because they've changed their philosophy, and now they seem to be playing their best football at the most important time and headed to Baltimore with another coin flip game on the road, and we're all excited for it.

What changed philosophically here recently? Oh, it's very simple. I think Andy for four months was tinkering with Cadarius Tony and tinkering with Sky Moore. and tinkering with how to get Marquez Valdez Scantling in the game. And he realized it's pretty simple. It's like a basketball analogy, Kevin. There's only three guys that should ever shoot the ball. And that's Travis Kelsey.

That's Rishie Rice. And that's Isaiah Pacheco. And those three guys have got the majority of the touches the last two weeks. And the offenses run through them. And when Marquez Valdez-Zcanley needs to come up with two catches, he has. but they've stopped trying to force these gadget players and these role players into, you know, again, using the basketball analogy, shooting the ball and trying to score. There's three guys, and that's who they've run it through. And look, they put up 26 points against the dolphins and frigid temperatures.

They left a little bit to be desired with four field goals in that game. They should have scored over 30, if not for McCle Hardman. Again, another gadget player making a crucial mistake on the goal line in Buffalo. It's pretty simple. Get the ball to the guys who are good and let Pat do his thing. And Pat has also not turned the ball over in this postseason. In fact, he is not throwing a pick in the last five postseason games he's played in. So Pat's narrowed it in. They've narrowed the rotation. And it's pretty simple. The defense has held ground in the second half. The Buffalo, you know, if you take the kneel downs out of the equation, they had 361 yards,

21 first downs and basically 27, but as you mentioned, should have been more than 27 points on 43 plays. I mean, that's, that is highly productive offense. But it also came against a very banged up defensive football team in Buffalo. And one of the things I've looked at here recently with respect to the game Sunday, Stephen, is that the last couple of decent defensive teams, if not good defensive teams, the Raiders, the Patriots, they haven't been themselves. And a couple of those games were in December. The Christmas Day game, I mean, the Raiders generated no offense

and were able to win that football game on Christmas Day. And I just wonder if there's any level of concern going up against, I think, the best defense in football in Baltimore's. Yeah, I think the conversation here this week, or I guess we can go back a little bit through the playoffs is the Chiefs are better than Miami, right? The team that Miami rolled out was incredibly injured on the defensive side of the ball. And same with Waddle and Moser, right?

I don't think anybody expected Miami to come into negative 27-degree weather and beat the Chiefs at Arrowhead. Okay, that's that conversation. It worked out that way. I think everybody here thought that the Chief were better than Buffalo on Sunday because of the injuries that Buffalo had. If Buffalo was fully healthy, I think that's a different conversation to your point.

The conversation this week is that for the first time, maybe since they played the Patriots in the ASC championship game in 2019, I think a conversation here is that the chiefs are probably not better than Baltimore, but we always have to throw this asterisk on. We have Michael Jordan and quarterback, okay? I know it sounds cliche, but they've got, Jordan. They've got, you know, Tiger Woods on Sunday at the Masters. So Mahomes is some crazy, like 9-1 when he's underdog against the spread, you know, it's just nuts what Patrick Mahomes

has been able to accomplish in his six years as a starter. So while I agree with you that I think this matchup may not play to the chief advantage and that Baltimore is really, really good. and has had a historic 20, 23, 24 season. We always have to add the caveat is the other team doesn't have Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs do and we'll have to see on Sunday after 60 minutes that that holds true.

Yeah, I mean, of course. And I think every football fan, and you don't have to be a Chiefs fan, understands that, as you said, Jordan is on their team. And so that makes winning a possibility, if not a probability, even though I don't think it's a probability

on Sunday. But I think what is also, and you've already mentioned it once, what has definitely carried Kansas City for a lot of the season is a defense that has played better than any of the previous defenses, right? I mean, this is the best defensive team that Mahomes has been on. It's not even close. And, you know, Steve Spagnolo came on in here after that 2018, 2019 team, and completely revamped it. This is now the second revamp that he's gone through. You know, there's no more Frank Clark. There's no more Tyron Matthew.

I mean, what's really encouraging to a lot of Chief fans here is that this is also a very young defense. Now, there are some contracts that are going to come due here pretty soon, but, you know, this could be the last game that Chris Jones plays in a Chiefs uniform. And Legerius Knee, who's been the best corner, despite being snubbed as an all-pro, is up for a contract. But you look at some of the guys on this defensive side of the ball. They're under 26.

And, yeah, you're going to have to figure out how to pay guys, and they're going to figure out how to pay a free agent wide receiver. But Trent McDuffie is a stud all pro in the second year. George Carlottis has 20 sacks. In his first two seasons, it has achieved a great draft pick off the edge who they drafted as a result of trading Tyree Kill. Nick Bolton's a star in the middle. and then they have, you know, role players around those guys,

and it's not even close. I mean, this is a really great defense. I think they're averaging like seven points allowed in the second half in the 20-23 season. It just the mix of young talent and stars with Steve Spagnolo is really, really special watching. That's the side of the ball that has kept this offense in it and put them in a position to win 12 games this year

and win the AFU West yet again. Back to the offense. I mean, I don't know that there is a back in the league that runs harder than Pacheco. And I, you know, we obviously saw glimpses of it last year in his rookie season as a seventh rounder, you know, out of Rutgers. You mentioned it. It's like Rice, Pacheco, Kelsey, nobody else should get shots. I wonder if they'll be able to run the football against Baltimore. It's been hard to for anybody. to do it against Baltimore. But I would bet that that's a big part of Sunday, that they've got to be able to stay balanced

and have Pacheco have a 75-yard-plus day. Yeah, I think you're right. And I think the difference is, if you're watching that game against Buffalo, you know, Pacheco was ripping off those 8, 10, 12-yard carries. I think the important part on Sunday is he's got to get 4 to 5, right? You've got to keep yourself in a manager.

situation against an incredible Baltimore defense. And, you know, another big part of the conversation, you know, I'm sure not everybody listening is watch all 16, 17 regular season Chief games. But Pacheco clearly was held back by Andy and this staff, where he was not, and fans were clamoring for it for the 15, 18 carries a game, and Andy didn't do it. And there's a clear reason why he's gotten 39 carries the last two weeks against the dolphins and bills. And it's pretty clear that Andy said, we're not going to waste you in regular season games. We know we're going to win the division. We know we have more important football

ahead of us. And then you get 15 carries against the dolphins or 24 carries against the dolphins, 15 against the bills, and they score 26 and 27 respectively. And they've got to do something similar again on Sunday because, you know, as great as Pat is, it can't be 45 dropbacks, third and eight all the time. That's not going to work against this Baltimore defense and this Baltimore pass rest. So again, I think you're right. You know, 15, 20 carries for 75, 80 yards.

Can you set yourself up for second and six as opposed to second and eight? That gives the chance for the Chief to win this football game on Sunday. Edwards-Alair had a big run too Sunday in Buffalo. And it reminded me of that weird COVID game when Kansas City went into Orchard Park and basically just handed the ball off to Edwards Aller on every single play against six DBSs and Buffalo never adjusted. I think I have that right. Yeah, it was a COVID Monday game. They moved it to 4 o'clock on Monday. Right, exactly. So that was the high point of Clyde Edwards Hillier's career because, you know, he's kind of been a scapegoat for a lot of things. And, you know,

if you're running back, he's playing for a future and a job in the NFL. But that was certainly the high point is a first-round draft pick out of the running back spot, which a lot of people still complain about when Michael Pittman Jr. and T. Higgins were taking the two spots afterwards. Let me ask you a question about our team and a guy that coached there for several years, who was the offensive coordinator and assistant head coach here. There were conversations, fans, you know, media types that said Kansas City's offense is struggling because Eric B. enemy isn't there. How do Kansas City people feel about that? Such a wild conversation. So I think there's two sides to it. The Chiefs were one of the

most penalized teams in the NFL, and they turned the ball over a ton with like a, you know, 28th in the league or something like that in turnover margin this year. And everybody would say that that would never happen with Eric B. Enemy. But yet last year when things were going wrong, it was all Eric B. Enemy's fault. it's kind of a pick-your-poison argument. I do think there is a, there is something to the fact that they were much more disciplined under Eric Bianabe,

but there were still a ton of Bianney complaints with the offense not taking shots, being slow and methodical, Pat not being, you know, as aggressive as he has been in the past. So I think there's probably two sides to the argument, but I don't think you can for sure say that this team wouldn't be the most penalized team

without Eric Bianabee being the offensive coordinator here this past 16-17 games. Do you think if Bianami isn't in Washington, which there's a pretty good chance he won't be? Do you think he comes back to Kansas City? Will Andy want him back?

I don't think so. Nagy is very, Matt Nagy, the offensive coordinator for the chief is very well liked in the building, very well liked by Patrick Mahomes. I think you know, I think Eric Bianami's time had just run out in Kansas City. He'd been interviewed for so many jobs.

I just think the message maybe got a little stale in that locker room. Not that he's not respected, and I think any player who played for him would tell you that, but I think they just needed a new voice in that room. And listen, I mean, it's hard to move on from an offensive coordinator who got you back to the ATSC championship games. So a lot of people also believe Matt Nagy is the coach in waiting here in Kansas City. if and when Andy wants to retire in the next two, three, five years. So I don't think a reunion is likely.

I've always thought that Eric B. Enemy needs to go to college, but I don't think Kansas City fans would say, yeah, let's bring Eric B.N.M.A. back here to be the offensive coordinator in 2024. What's it been like to be at the center on Sunday afternoons of the Taylor Swift universe? Oh, God.

It's wild. I mean, I know Twitter is not a real conversation or X, whatever. The difference in between Kansas City and having fun with Taylor Swift and her being like a part of our town is so different than the online conversation and the people mad about showing her on TV. Kansas City's embraced her. She's embraced Kansas City. That's all we really want. You know, she walks around Trader Joe's here in Kansas City, all that stuff. Like Kansas City fans love or adore her.

I think the national conversation has been. gotten a little ridiculous with people being all up and armed about showing her on TV. She's just trying to enjoy the game, and she clearly is, you know, embrace Travis Kelsey's, you know, fame and fandom, and she's having a great time. Why shouldn't the rest of us? I think that's perfectly said, and I think I completely agree with that. All right, what happens Sunday in Baltimore? Oh, God.

Do you have the total in front of you because that'll shape my score prediction? 51. 51? Yeah. Are you sure? I thought it was 45. I thought it was, okay, 51. I would... Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Sorry, sorry, sorry. That's the San Francisco game. 44 and a half, my fault. 44 and a half, okay. Yeah, that sounds... You know, I thought the Chiefs were going to lose this game all season, but now all of a sudden I'm as confident as ever that they're going to win. I will say 2320 Chiefs. that's right around that 44 and a half mark.

Late field goal from Butker, Chief Escape with a victory. They're headed to their second straight Super Bowl. Baltimore left hanging. I think there's – and tell me if you disagreeing, you obviously have a pulse on the region. I think there's a lot more pressure on Baltimore and Lamar to win this game than there is for the Chief. I haven't thought about it after they beat the Texans from that perspective, because I thought that there was some pressure on Lamar last Saturday, even though the opponent was a lesser opponent,

because the last time they were a number one seed in the postseason, Tennessee destroyed them at M&T Bank. And I think that he had a great second half. And so I think there's a little bit of pressure off of them after that performance. But it was Houston. It was a young team. It was a rookie quarterback. It was pretty damn cold, not Kansas City cold, like the Miami game,

which, by the way, as an aside, I don't think because of that game and because of all of the reported hypothermia cases, we will ever see a game in that temperature again. I think the NFL will prevent that moving forward, although I thought it was super entertaining to watch. But yeah, there's no pressure on the Chiefs. This was supposed to be all season long. This was supposed to be the off year. This wasn't going to be a Super Bowl team, as you said. And here they are.

And so they're kind of playing with house money for the first time if it's even possible for a chief's team to play with house money. So I would say, yeah, there's more pressure on Baltimore. But I also think Baltimore is just a flat out better team. I really do. Yeah, I completely agree with that. And I do think there's more pressure on Baltimore and Lamar. A, you're hosting the game. I also think Lamar probably has to wear the pressure of Burrow and Allen a little bit.

Like, you know, we talk about who is Mahomes' rival. And it started as Lamar. Then it went to Josh Allen. Then it was Burrow. For a second, it was Herbert. And yet none of these guys have one guy has made a Super Bowl. Burrow lost to the Rams. But none of these guys have consistently beaten Patrick Mahomes when it actually matters.

And now Lamar has another chance in the first time these two have played against each other in the playoffs. I think Lamar not only has pressure on himself and kind of his legacy, I think he's got to wear the pressure of who's going to be the first ASC quarterback to beat Patrick Mahomes and then go on to win a Super Bowl. Because, again, Burrow did it in the 2022 AFC championship game, but lost to the Rams. At some point, it can't just be Patrick Mahomes every year for the AFC. So is it going to be Lamar this year?

Is it going to be Burrow next year, whoever? Someone's got to eventually beat Patrick Mahomes. and I think Lamar has to wear that pressure this weekend. Yeah, I think there is, I mean, again, if he had lost to Houston on Saturday, it would have been bad for him. But yeah, the Josh Allen conversation's gotten a little bit out of hand. I get it. I thought that he made some decisions there on that final drive that weren't great decisions.

But if there were an open draft for current NFL quarterbacks, he'd be no worse than the third or fourth quarterback taken. And Lamar, even if he loses on Sunday, would be no worse than like the fifth quarterback taken. You know, the funny thing about Burrow is Burrow went into Arrowhead, you know, and won and nearly did it again, you know, last year. That would have really separated Burrow. Had they pulled it off two years in a row in an AFC title game at Arrowhead, and they certainly had a chance to do it last year? It was a walk-off field goal that won it, right?

I think it was. Yeah, there was four seconds left and they had to kick the kickoff. But, yeah, essentially a walk-off after that. That would have made it a no-brainer. Even if they had lost the Super Bowl to Philadelphia two weeks later, that would have been a no-brainer to say Burroughs number two behind Mahomes. In fact, we'd be saying he's kind of got Mahomes' number, you know?

Yeah, absolutely. The reverse side of that argument is Burroughs been in the NFL for four years, and he hasn't finished two of them. I know. Right? He tore his ACL in Washington and then the wrist injury in Baltimore. So, yeah, I mean, two AFC championships games with two seasons and not finishing the season. And we'll see, you know, with the conversation in the NFL is, can you win with a quarterback who's been paid?

This is the first year that Joe Burroughs been paid at 20-24 season. Can they retain that core of really good players? We'll have to see what Burrow is moving forward, but I think you're absolutely right. Well, and the other thing with Lamar Jackson is he's got to take advantage of this opportunity because he's been injury prone too. You know, they went into the postseason last year with Tyler Huntley. They missed the postseason the year before because he wasn't available to them at crunch time. And the way he plays, you know, this was a big offseason conversation about, you know,

why Baltimore was at least perceived to be hesitant. They love Lamar. Lamar is incredibly beloved by everybody in that organization and everybody in that locker room. But to give him the kind of money ultimately that he got, there was this risk. I mean, were you going to see a third straight year where it ended with Tyler Huntley on the field? You couldn't have that.

And he's one game and one win away from making it all worth it for Baltimore. Two wins away, really. I think they've got to get there and win it. I actually think Baltimore is the team right now of the four remaining that is a cut above. I do. I think whoever wins the AFC championship game wins the Super Bowl, because I don't care what we say. This is a quarterback-driven league. I'll take Lamar and Mahomes over Gough and Purdy.

I don't care if it's perfect conditions in a dome in Vegas. Give me Lamar or Pat over Gauphin, Gauphin Pard. Yeah. Actually, you know, I did something on radio today where just contemplating a San Francisco loss on Sunday to Detroit or even a Super Bowl loss, like what will be the conversation around Kyle Shanahan? Because we had the conversation early this week about Josh Allen. Well, Kyle Shanahan hasn't won a Super Bowl. I love Kyle. And again, Kyle would be one of the top three or four coaches if there was an open draft of coaches. But they have not evaluated quarterbacks well. And if they get beat by Detroit or if they were to get beat by Baltimore or Kansas City, and he doesn't have a Super Bowl to go along with that genius label, the organization essentially has it as well, I think the conversation about him and that organization will change a little bit.

At one point this year, it looked like the 49ers were the team that were a cut and a half above everybody else. Yeah, you like the eye test just like I do. I'm watching him try to throw a football in light rain, and he's wiping his hands in the middle of a play. You know, he just seems to me like, I'm speaking to a Purdy and that I guess be a Shanahan. Everything's got to be perfect.

It seems like for San Francisco to win. And listen, maybe that happens in Vegas because it's, you know, turf, indoors, all that stuff. But I just, there's a real thing. reason why he was the last pick in the NFL draft, you know, and maybe he is Brady Light, but that doesn't happen. You look at

all the quarterbacks in these NFL playoffs. They are first round picks. They are high draft picks. And at some point, McCaffrey's got a lot of miles on him. Kittles got a lot of miles on him. Debo's got a lot of miles on him. It's got to be a perfect setup for Purdy, and I'm not sure how much longer

that whole thing lasts there at San Francisco. Yeah, and that's the point. And I agree with you. I did not think Purdy played well at all against Green Bay until the final drive. And look, that was a clutch drive. He made some plays. But, you know, he's lucky he didn't have Darnell Savage pick six him in the first half like Savage did against the Cowboys. And yeah, it's the evaluation. I mean, look, the Tray Lance trade in selection says it all. Garoppolo. Now, the plan all along for Kyle when he got to San Francisco was to sign or trade for Kirk Cousins.

And Washington should have done it. They didn't do it because, of course, Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen did not want to do any favors for the Shanahan's. They were that petty, and they turned down a first round number two overall pick for him. But yeah, the 49er conversation will be an interesting one if they don't win it this year. They'll still come back loaded next year and be one of the better teams. It's a good point that you make.

I mean, there's such a physical group, Kiddell, McCaffrey, Samuel. We've seen it with McCaffrey in his career. We're seeing it with Samuel right now. Trent Williams is getting, I mean, Trent Williams is like 35 years old at this point, right? Every bit of it. And so they better do it soon, to your point. Yeah, I use the free agent this year, too. So that offense is not, that team is not going to look the same as it is right now.

I mean, this is the best assembled roster in the NFL, but this is the quarterback league, and Brock Purdy is the fourth best quarterback remaining in the NFL playoffs. God, Ayuk is a star, in my opinion. All right, man, great job. Enjoy it. Are you coming to the game, or are you just hanging out at the station back in Casey? Hanging out.

All right. Well, enjoy it. First time on the road last week, second time on the road this week. We'll see how it goes. Appreciate it, Stephen. Thanks, Kevin. At Steven Specter 10 on Twitter, on X. Give him a follow.

Stephen's a great dude. All right, we are done for the day. Back tomorrow with Tommy.