The Kevin Sheehan Show - Washington's Pro Bowl Vote Leader

Episode Date: December 7, 2023

Kevin with a surprising Washington Commander NFC Pro Bowl vote leader to start the show. He also hit the highlights of in-depth, behind-the-scenes ESPN story on the Commanders' season so far. Then it was Fred Smoot jumping on to carve it up with Kevin on how they got to 4-9, what's next, and plenty on the looming off-season QB discussion. RG3, Tyreek Hill, and Santana Moss also part of the show today.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. The show today presented by Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com. Mention my name.

You'll get a free estimate. You've got nothing to lose. They'll take good care of you. One guest on the show today. Fred Smoot will be on. A crowd favorite for sure. Smoot coming up in the next segment. of the show. A couple of things to get to here in the open to the show. Starting with this,

five Washington Commanders players are among the top 10 at their position in Pro Bowl voting by fans. So this is the first release of Pro Bowl voting by fans to give you an idea of where players currently rank. Sam Hal among quarterbacks in the NFC ranks 10th. Jonathan Allen among defensive tackles, 8th, Antonio Gibson, among returners, seventh, Cam Curl, strong safety, fourth. Let's just say at this point, none of these players very likely to make a Pro Bowl. Maybe Cam Curl as an alternate based on this initial fan vote reveal. But here is a player who looks to be on track to make the Pro Bowl. His name is Terrell Burgess.

he is first in most Pro Bowl votes among NFC special teamers. Terrell Burgess, I said. So I saw this and I said, huh? What? Terrell who? Actually, I knew who Terrell Burgess was, but the idea that Terrell Burgess is number one in fan voting

for the NFC Pro Bowl special team spot was completely out of left field. I have not, I'm telling you now, as much as we all watch these games, and I go back and watch them a second time. There's not been great emphasis this year on the special teams, that's for sure, because of the defensive woes and the focus so much on Sam Howell this year.

We've certainly been here. to document Joey Sly and Cam Cheesman's years and Tressway's years, I've pointed out a couple of times, and I went back and looked at various notes from various games to see where I had identified good special teams play. Most of my special teams mentions in post game are either Tressway or Cam Chisman or Joey Sly for missing something or for Cam Chisman snaps

or for Tressway having an outstanding game. although he did have one rough game earlier in the year. But the only other notes that I could find is I had written down multiple times Juan Martin's name as pretty solid in coverage, in punt coverage. They haven't had much kickoff coverage this year because Joey Sly has had maybe one kickoff returned this year. Terrell Burgess, he wears number 32 people. He has played in eight games for Washington, and he's played on 198 special teams snaps.

If you're not familiar, he wears number 32. Now, how does that happen? Seriously. How do fans know who the hell Terrell Burgess is? They don't. I don't think. I think Jeremy Reeves, who was named the pro bowler last year as the special teamer in the NFC, I think they just assumed that Terrell Burgess was Jeremy Reeves, the Washington special teamer from last year.

It's no knock against Burgess. For all I know and I don't know, Burgess is having a hell of a year and I've just missed it. It's not been noticeable to me, but a lot of emphasis on the special teams this year we've not had, except for a lot of the super negative or super positive. With the exception, again, I think Kwan Martin has been noticeable as a kick coverage guy, I mean this year. He has, in terms of special teams, Juan Martin 223 snaps on special teams in the 12 games that he's been available to play.

Remember, he had some concussion issues earlier this year. So there's your surprise for the day. Maybe some of you aren't going to be surprised by this. Maybe you have been there to document in your own way the incredible year that Terrell Burgess is having. And again, he may be having an outstanding year. I would bet you, though, that part of this has to do with Jeremy Reeves winning, being the Pro Bowl representative, special team for the NFC team last year. I think that's it. Who knows?

Terrell Burgess. All right. So, John Kime and Jeremy Fowler wrote a very long story on ESPN today titled Inside the Commanders and how the commanders reached the crossroads and what comes next. And there are some interesting nuggets in this story. It's a very long story. Now, I would be lying if I told you I thought there were major reveals in here about various things, but I also kind of feel like all of us live this day to day, and that for a lot of people that don't live it day to day, it will be very revealing in many ways.

But still, there are some really good nuggets in here. And I'll start with, and I'm just going to go through some of these real quickly. So the first section of this story deals with the trade deadline and the trading of Montez-Swett and Chase Young. And, you know, we'd like to know in great detail with John and Jeremy Fowler's great reporting with, you know, anonymous sources and getting inside and getting people to speak, you know, not necessarily on the record, but to give them information off the record. we do know that, you know, before reading this story, that the sense was they wanted to trade Chase Young, they didn't really want to trade Montez Sweat. So let me read a couple of things here. So trade calls flooded the office lines and personal phones of general manager Martin Mayhew and executive vice president and a player personnel,

Marty Herney, along with head coach Ron Rivera, who has final say on personnel. Montez Sweat and Chase Young players, the organization once viewed as potential long-term pillars were the main topics for trade partners. Other veterans with expiring contracts were also under consideration to be dealt. But the boss would have to weigh in before any moves occurred, and no one at Commanders Park knew exactly what that boss, a little more than three months into his tenure, was thinking. new owner Josh Harris, meeting remotely with his football brain trust, faced his first big football decision since he'd been approved his owner on July 20th. Harris emphasized he was open to acquiring future draft capital on the trade market, particularly with sweat and young, according to front office and team sources.

Here's a quote. Harris didn't roll in as a sheriff, as the source put it, in line with the owner's philosophy of leaning on staff to make recommendations before major decisions are made. He gave his opinion, everyone was heard, and we landed in a fair spot, closed quote. What Jeremy and John Wright is, but when you're calling the shots, a suggestion can often be taken as an edict. Sweat and young were gone within hours of the meeting, dealt to Chicago and San Francisco for second and third round picks, respectively. Within league's circles the terms of the trades were viewed as favorable to the commanders. But that didn't mean it

felt like a win for Mayhew, Herney, or Rivera. One personnel source said in a text to ESPN on the evening of October 30th, quote, today has not been a good day, closed quote. So why wasn't it a good day the day they traded sweat and young? Well, it's simple. Rivera and Del Rio and the coaches out there had aspirations or you may say delusions of continuing to compete for a good season and the playoffs. And they knew without sweat their chances of that weren't going to be great on defense. I don't know how much he would have helped. Plus, they weren't going to be around to gain the benefit of the draft choices that were coming back. And they understood that as well.

Another significant part of this story and section of this story deals a lot. with Eric Bienemy. And man, it is long, and I'm going to try to get to as much of it as I can here in a short period of time. So Jeremy Fowler and John Kheim essentially, you know, give us the background on, you know, why B.N.M. was there and the responsibility he was given by Ron Rivera, the autonomy. He was given by Ron Rivera, you know, the chance to be something more. lot more than he was in Kansas City.

And, you know, Bienimi took control and he started to do things the way he wanted to do them. But they were far different than the way they had been done. But Ron Rivera went along with it. And a lot of it had to do with the changing of the schedule on a weekly basis and even the way they would meet and how they would meet. You know, Bienemy, there's a line in here. Rivera's wager on the 54-year-old coach has been something less than an instant jackpot, even though HALs performed admirably, and B' enemy's been given a lot of credit for that. But Rivera essentially relinquished a level of power by hiring Bianemy. And one of the things that Bianmi started to do right when he got there was change the

teams regular season, practice and meeting schedules. And, you know, again, teams typically have Tuesdays off during the season. Bienemy changed it to Mondays off during game weeks. Some players, including team veterans and those with families, have not warmed to it. Kime and Fowler right. One player grumbled, it's what Bianami wants, closed quote. And so then there was this, Bienemy. Among the players other issues early in the year per team sources was that

afternoon offensive meetings frequently ran long and got in the way if players needed treatment. B. Enemy's initial concession was to allow players to use foam rollers on the floor of the meeting rooms to save meeting time per a team source. Now, in recent weeks, BNemi has relaxed some of the demands, including shortening Wednesday practices from two hours. hours to closer to an hour and a half. One player telling, you know, Fowler and Kime, quote, he's gotten better at respecting our time, closed quote. He's gotten into it with some players. He got into it with Terry McLorne during training camp. Terry McClorn intervened when Benjamin St. Juice hit one of McLaren's offensive teammates in what McClure deemed to be an overzealous manner. Be enemy fired an

expletive back at McLorn. McClorn didn't back down, vowing to defend his teammate. As one chief source, chief's source, said of BNME, he's demanding, he'll push people, and he doesn't care if he ruffles feathers. Multiple sources said Bianmi and the offensive coaches work well past midnight, some nights during the week, less than standard practice in an NFL that typically includes early morning starts to the workday. One member of the staff said that while long hours are a testament to Biennami's stamina, the pace is nearly impossible to maintain even in the notoriously sleep-deprived NFL coaching profession due to the length of the season. Beanimy acknowledged the demands on the staff but said they were part of establishing a winning culture.

What else was there? there's a lot about, you know, Bienemy's style. You know, that sort of spoke to this tension that has definitely existed. Remember Ron going public during training camp about players coming to him, which was really stupid to do. But there's no doubt that there is some tension in that building as it relates to Bienemy. Now, with respect to his offense, it's written the commander spent significant time with the passing game all off season, with quick throws and run-pass option plays used as an extension of the running game. That theme has persisted in the regular season with the commanders leading the league,

with 509 passing attempts, 59 more than any other team. This is an area several team sources believe Rivera should have addressed with Biennamy on occasions that called for running the ball. But in line with the authority, Rivera gave Bianami over the offense, the head coach did not meddle in Bianmi's offensive play. plan. After the 14-7 loss to the Giants, McClorn was critical of the scheme, lamenting the low number of fades and crossing routes called for him against the giant's blitz. And so McLorne, who was held without a catch in Sunday's loss of the dolphins, has met

weakly with Bianemy since that public criticism. While changes in both on and off the field approach have prevailed since Bienemy came aboard, the wins have not followed, and the offenses scored 20 or fewer points in four of the past five games. The losing has amplified some of the grumbling, both about Bienemy's style and play calling. But Biennami's defenders insist the complaints are unfair to a coach trying to revamp a system with mediocre talent in some areas. This is from an NFC team executive, quote, he took over a tough situation there in Washington and has worked hard to correct it. They needed a culture shock there.

I think he's probably helped his profile, closed quote. Yeah. So that's a lot of the B enemy stuff. Look, after reading that section, I thought, okay, well, this is, you know, kind of what we've known was part of the reason teams didn't want to hire Eric Bienemy. There is no doubt, you know, there's going to be, especially if you're not winning, and they were always winning in Kansas City, there may be a short shelf life to Bianami being, you know, in the building with a lot of people. So I do think, like we talked about during the offseason, and again, this isn't even opinion. Nobody wanted him, except for Washington.

Nobody. We don't even know for sure if Washington hadn't hired him if Kansas City would have brought him back. I think Andy Reid would have had to have brought him back. But Matt Nagy was going to become the offensive coordinator. So I think, you know, there's been enough going back to training camp to understand what the resistance to BNME was from a lot of teams. teams. On the other hand, I'm like, man up. I mean, seriously, players, veterans with those with families have not warmed to the new schedule, you know, quote, one player grumbled, it's what Bienemy wants, closed quote. You know, he, quote, he's gotten better at respecting our time,

closed quote. I mean, seriously, what have any of those people won? Eric Bienemy came to this organization with two rings and probably recognized it as too soft. And he was the guy that was going to instill some toughness, some work ethic, perhaps into the organization. You know, the idea that multiple sources Bienemy and the offensive coaches work well past midnight some nights during the week. Not the standard practice. Early mornings to the work day. Well, he wants to work late at night. He's the assistant head coach.

So you come in late at night, period. I don't know. I doubt the enemy is going to be a part of any new regime. That would be my guess. This place, you know, is a lot different than it was culturally. I know some of you are really pushing back on that this year. And, you know, it's convenient to push back on that this year. because they've been so bad.

The other quick takeaway from this story was the firing of Del Rio. It's kind of described how it came down. Following the Thanksgiving Day loss to the Cowboys, Rivera watched and graded the film on the flight back. He focused in on the stretch of game at the end of the first half when it was 14 to 10, and then the Cowboys went right down the field and scored to make it 20 to 10. as he reviewed the film Kime and Fowler Wright and reflected on the game and season

Rivera considered whether to fire Del Rio, a team source said. And then Rivera pondered the impact of moving on. If he fired Del Rio, how would he divide up his tasks? By the time he arrived home, Rivera's mind was racing. He got to sleep

around 3 a.m. but woke up a little more than two hours later. As he drove to the team facility, he knew the move needed to be made. He waited until 8 a.m. to call Josh Harris, and when he called, the owner asked why he wanted to make the move, as well as the plan moving forward. And Harris, who generally believes staff changes should be made at the head coach's discretion, approved the move. And then this part was interesting. Rivera visited Del Rio's office to deliver the news and interaction coaching staff sources characterized as professional, but less than warm.

Rivera then exited Del Rio's office took a few steps into the office of defensive backs coach Brent Vieselmeyer and delivered another blunt message, Vise, we have to let you go. They knew this was ending eventually a team source said they just got it early. So it sounds like Del Rio was at least mildly surprised by the timing of his firing. Yeah, so there's one more part in here. And it deals with sort of Ron's, you know, delegation of authority to, you know, to be enemy and to Del Rio all of these years. The coordinator changes, they write, cast appall over Rivera's future because of how much faith and responsibility he places in them.

Several team sources said Rivera deferres to his coordinators on decision making sometimes to a fault. Quote, Ron needed to take more ownership, closed quote. One of the team sources said, you know, you kind of come away a little bit from that particular section of the story, thinking that there were people in that building that would have preferred Ron to be much more involved in coaching the team. rather than being kind of this CEO coach. It's what Randy Mueller, the former NFL general manager for the Saints and the Dolphins, I've had him on the radio show a couple of times this year. He writes for the athletic, and he had written, and I'm paraphrasing here because I don't have it in front of me,

that when Rivera fired Del Rio, he said, you know, he's going to get more involved in running the defense. And Randy Mueller said, well, what have you been doing? because Mueller worked with Ron Rivera at one point in his career, and he really was, according to Randy Mueller, a very respected defensive mind. And Randy Mueller's point was, sometimes these guys get away from what they do best, and it ends up hurting them.

You know, we've given this so much thought, and we've had so much conversation, but the Ron Rivera three and a half years here was just a shit show on so many levels for him. And again, I'm not going to sit here and just completely take him off the hook because he doesn't deserve to be completely taken off the hook. But you just wonder with everything that was going on in those first two plus years, including his own personal health crisis,

if he just ended up kind of being resigned to, this is my last gig, there's a lot more to life, the money's great, the money's great, and I'm going to do my best, but man, I'm not going to do it the way I used to do it. I'm not going to kill myself doing everything that I used to do the way I used to do it. I've got Jack Del Rio and now Eric Bionemi here to handle that. And I think he gave Scott Turner a lot of autonomy as well.

One more thing before we get to Smoot. Tarique Hill, the receiver that just came in here and destroyed Washington on Sunday. He was on RG3's podcast the other day, and he was asked about his all-time favorite wide receivers. And he gave kind of a top five. He said Antonio Brown, Jerry Rice, Terrell Owens, T.O., Steve Largent, and then he said this. And let me go Sanana Moss That's my top five

My man says Santana Moss I don't know why I was a fan of Sancta Moss Santana was my guy in Washington Oh yeah Y'all played together, yeah Had it my rookie year

It was wild Like Santana had like I'm not going to lie He had like 20 catches and 13 touchdowns It was crazy You know we didn't use him as much Because he was a little

older at that time, but he could still separate. He could still play inside and outside. I was a huge Santana Moss fan before I even got to the team. So it's funny you say that name because just for the position in the culture, Santana Moss, he did so much for it, man. Return game. Thank you. Honestly, to be quite honest, like similar to what you now.

Come on. I love Santana. Let's just put it that way. Santana Moss, the player, what he was able to do for me. me in Washington, forever grateful to that. So that's pretty cool. The most feared receiver of this era, Tareke Hill, has Santana Moss as one of his five all-time favorite receivers with, you know, a pretty esteemed group. I mean, three Hall of Famers, right, and Jerry Rice, T.O. and Largent, Antonio Brown's not a

Hall of Famer. Antonio Brown's probably pretty close to being a Hall of Famer, isn't he? 21st in reception yards all time. 24th. No, I've got that opposite. 24th all time in reception yards, 21st in receptions. Probably not. Although, man, for a few years there, kind of like Hill, the most feared guy, you know, in the NFL. And certainly one of the most targeted receivers by Ben Rathosberger ever. By the way, in 2012, in RG3's rookie season. Santana actually had 41 receptions, and he had eight touchdowns that year. He led the team in pass-receiving touchdowns with eight that year.

Josh Morgan had two. Leonard Hankerson had three, and Pierre had four. Aldrich Robinson had three as well. So Santana Moss, he had a good season that year with RG3, you know, for the age that he was, which was 33 at the time. All right up next, Fred Smoot, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky. Go to mybooky.orgie. Go to mybooky.orgie.com. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C., and you'll get a cash bonus on your initial deposit. Thursday night football, listen to this, the Steelers Patriots at my bookie, the total is 30. It's the lowest over-under number in 30 years in the NFL.

I'm sure Amazon's thrilled about having this game tomorrow night. But people will watch. They will watch it regardless. But, yeah, I feel like we've said and talked about totals and low totals a lot, you know, clearly the Iowa games in college football. but 30 for Pittsburgh, New England tomorrow night. MyBooky.ag, mybooky.com. promo code Kevin D.C.

You've got to use my promo code Kevin D.C. to get the cash bonus on your initial deposit. All right, back with us by popular demand is Fred Smoot, who has watched this debacle of the last couple of weeks. I've been doing on the radio show, I've been doing some discussion, and we took calls today on whether or not we're actually living through the worst actual season in franchise history. Look, most of the teams you played on here were, you know, fairly competitive teams at times.

But you've witnessed from afar as a fan, as a media member, paying attention to this franchise, some bad ones. How do you feel right now at 4'9 off of a combined 90s? to 25 over the last two games? I guess I had to compare Professor, to the simple watching a bullify being made. You know, it's in a cocoon first. It's ugly. It has to be burnt down to the studs

sometime. And we wonder why we've been right there in the middle of mediocrity for a long time, and it had to do with us, always being 8 and 8, 7 and 9, 6 and 10, never burning it down to the studs like the Texas did, having the high-draft picks, having a chance to reload the roster, having $80 million to get things done, having maybe a quarterback in the ham, having room to go out there and get free agents.

So it's one of those things where we have to be here to move forward. See, that's the thing about it. Everybody want to go on the ride to the ride get bumpy. But if the road is going to take us to the land of prosperity, how about you just sit back and watch it unfold? I listen to people all the time and all these couch experts saying, what is this, what is that? You have to get down to the bare bones to actually get to where you want to be. This is the beginning of something.

I ask people, what do you want? Do you want to do you want to literally let local control time? I don't know. At the end of the day, I feel people should understand where we at. This is where we at. We just traded two of our best players mid-season that tells you where we're at. That tells you what the plan is. The plan is to shape the roster the way they want to shape the roster

and let that be in the hands of whoever controlling it at that time. When did you get so sensible? When did that happen? When did it talk about four the flies? You watch it happen, man. It's nothing like it. Watching something boom. I know.

But look, I didn't ask you about what it looked like moving forward. I think overall, anybody that has been through as a fan base, as, you know, John Q on the couch, former players, media members, I think we all understand that there's actually a chance, you know, now moving forward, and that the real beginning of the Josh Harris ownership wasn't going to start until, after this season was over. But that doesn't change that at various times, as you and I have talked throughout the season, there was some optimism here and there. And this has been a debacle of a season if we just view it in the terms of this team

and the games they've played through 13 weeks. You know what? As a man that has been successfully married as long as you have, I'm ashamed to you. Because you know one thing about a good marriage and a good friendship and a good relationship, and that's what the fan base has with the team of relationship, is what are your expectations? What did you expect with a first-time quarterback? What did you expect with a first-time coordinator?

What did you expect with a defensive coordinator that's not even here? What was your expectations? Let's rewind this. September. Take me in the head of perspective. Professor seeing what we are and where are we going. I'm ready to rewind it. I've had you on this show a couple of times, including after losses against the Eagles,

where you said, this is a team that's got a chance to win some games. We finally have the answer to quarterback. We finally have this. We finally. And the defense is going to come together and look out. I'm with you. Look, my expectations before, in all seriousness, my expectations before the season started were I think this is worst case a seven win team because I thought the defense was

going to be good and best case if it turns out they've got a quarterback that can play a little bit maybe a nine or a 10 win team so it's way off from where I thought it was and let's be honest it's way off from where you thought it would be as well and that's all I want to address right now I mean, no matter how ashamed you are of me as a married man. I just think you're doing more layered to commitment more than that. Like, the one thing I do a good job, and I did a good job of this when I was playing, it's always looking in the mirror and said, you know what, you can lie to your wife, you can lie to your friends, you can put you to put a lot of yourself,

you have to be a doggone scoundrel, all right? And I ain't going to do that. So I looked in the mirror, and I said, you know what? I wrote it down on paper, a new quarterback. No matter how good he is, he's still going to be a young quarterback. So I'm like, all right, there's going to be some ups and downs. I already knew that. New coordinator, new coordinator teaching a new offense to each and every last one of the offensive player,

including the new young quarterback. It's going to be a couple problems there. We all knew that our offensive lines had some holes in it. We knew that mixed in the pot of all that inexperience in that offense. and end at you for quarterback, I said Bumpy Road. I, defense, we all said before the season. First round is on the first round. You're getting back, Matt this, you're getting this, you're getting this.

We should take a step forward from where we were last year. Didn't happen. So that's the mixture for disaster. And even on the one thing that we've always been had good, and it's been consistent through the years, with special teams. If it went from Tress Way, catching these left field, five balls that's being snapped to him.

We would have been lost more games than me. Look, I just want to make sure that our relationship is based on honesty and trust. That is a very important, that's a very important part of a relationship, and as is, the ability

to have patience and to forgive. I was very much expect, you know, seriously, the biggest disappointment for me, this year. I can't believe how bad this defense has been. That's been a surprise for you too. So why did it happen? Oh, here go to truth in the matter. And things did they just happen to where they are

sometimes is communication from coaches to player, player to player. But what we knew, nobody was on the same page. And I always say, let me look at the whole equation. All right. I'm sorry. You could say what you want to about these guys. This team especially at the beginning of the year, had plenty of talent on it that have been proven itself over time. And always I say, it's no coincidence that everybody's playing bad. Like, nobody's having a peak season. Like, that's not a coincidence.

All these dudes don't stink. So either it's the wrong scheme that you're running, it's the wrong communication. It's the wrong case. It's the wrongness. But I refuse to believe that these guys are just all coincidentally having that's worst season, all together. So it has everything to do with cohesiveness. It has everything to do with play callers.

It has everything to do with situation awareness. It has everything to do with red zone checks. It has everything to do with just flat out knowing the game and knowing each other. And that's what I don't. Like, me in London talk about it all the time. We knew, we had sign, like, we could check within tenths of a second. We already knew that some stuff was non-versible. Like to not be on the same page, as much as these guys

as not be on the same page, I start to look at the totality of it, and my grandma always told me this, a fish stink from the head down. Yeah, well, the head of this stinky fish is finally gone, and hopefully that gives us a reason to believe moving forward. Okay, so let's actually focus on the future here because the rest of this season, well, the immediate future. What's interesting to you over these final four games? Well, you know what? I want to see who's going to stand up and be a damn man and play football.

Me and San Antonio was talking about that we have been in a situation where guess what? We ain't going to the playoffs, but you're playing for the name on the front of their jersey, You're playing for the name on the back of that jersey. The eye in the sky don't lie. You plan for future employment. You plan for trying to make this team because you know it could be changed. All right, everybody ain't going to like your game. You plan for everything.

Who's going to continue to do what they're supposed to do? You pay to play football. Who's going to shut up and play football at a high level? Yeah, we can talk about the past. I drive a car through my front wrist shield, not through my rearview member, so I just keep on going. And that's what they have to do. Put their head down.

you know what, let's finish strong. And let's be very much Silky Johnson, and let's just spew some hate. I'm talking about nothing but hate. Hate on the last four people you get to play with and go into the out season with least a good taste in your mouth on your performance and the way we came together when it was adversity. See, it's easy to be front runners and keep on playing into the playoffs,

but it's hard to finish the season that didn't go the way you wanted it to go. So it's true mindset. And we'll see who just really love football because some people just hate to lose. And some people just love to win. And it's a different. It actually would be great to have Chappelle around in the locker room just for this sense of humor to deal with this travesty. It would be great. All right.

So your general manager, all right? You get to play general manager. I'm going to start with some of this stuff that is. easier. On defense, who are the players and put contracts aside? Okay, because players could be traded. Who are the players that you definitely want back to build whatever we're going to be building once this next off season begins? Who are the players that definitely should be back? Because you said it wasn't all about players, that these players had talent and they didn't lose the talent overnight. Who are the players you want back?

Well, the thing about it is I am in great cap condition. If I want to sign everybody back, I could. I'm in great cap condition because my main two studs in the middle, I still got under contract right now. Cam Curl would be the first guy that I had to get in there, and because he's coming off what I call for him, not his best year, we can really get in here, really deal, and I can make him a Washington player for a long time.

Then what I'm also going to do is between Casey Two Hill and James Smith Williams, I'm going to keep one of those swing guys here no matter who I'm bringing in free agency at defensive end, no matter who I'm bringing in at linebacker. The one thing I'm going to think about is somebody like Shaq Leonard or Deidate, formerly known at Darius Leonard. You know, he's going to play this contract out with Philadelphia, but he'll be a guy that I keep my eyes on. I also want to beef up my defensive backfield with a veteran. like everybody that I bring in

will be of age when it comes to free agency because I'm going to bring so much youth in when I'm making my draft picks in the draft. So therefore I still got some cornerbacks. You ask me, will I take on a guy like St. Juice? I would weather if it had to come to me, I would probably strike a deal with Kinder Fuller

to keep him around because of his mind and his ball skills. I think it will be grateful for us to have their presence. So if I had to let somebody walk, I hate to say it, it might be the Pope. Then everything else, we can figure itself because I can get one of the best pass rushers coming out of free agency, mixing in with a pass rushes in the draft. So I start right there on my defense. By the way, I'm just looking through some of the defense of free agents,

and you said you want some experience. in the defensive backfield. One of my all-time favorite players, or the last 10 years, has been Micahide. He's a free agent. Oh, yeah. Yes, I love Mikeahe. To have somebody like that, you know, with the ball skills he has. But let me just make sure I'm clear on one thing, that you would take if you had the choice full or over St. Juice. Yeah. Yeah, because I'm, you know, the one thing I love St. Juicy, he's progress to be a good corner. He's a big corner. You can't buy size. He can run pretty much. Under contract next year.

He's still under contract. Yeah, I know. I know what, but I'm just saying, if I had to choose between them because I have so much cap flexibility, I can maneuver. I can play chess in here. Like, nobody's stuck on my roster, you know what I'm saying? So I can do some things because I want to open up a slot for another veteran guy, another guy, because I'm a ball-skilled guy.

Like, the one thing I like about my cornerbacks, I like them to be able to turn the ball over. It's like a guy going into the band ring. He understands when he steps up to the plate. If I go three for ten, I am an all-star in his league. It's a game of flaws. It's a game of up and down when you play the cornerback position. So the one thing about it is I've got to get you as much as you get me.

So that's everything from knocking, passing down, to retrieving picks, to being around the ball, causing a fumble or two, causing a pop-up ball that somebody else picks off, something that makes the defense flow. so I want to get more aggressive. And the only way I can get more aggressive is to get guys that naturally have it because I'm sorry you cannot buy ball skills off the shelf. People think you can learn it over time,

but it's two different cornerbacks in the league always will be. It's the one that used to play running back when they were in high school, and it's the one that used to play wide receiver. And you could tell the difference between the two a la Sean Springs play wide receiver and running back, and you got a guy like Champ Bailey play wire receiver, D. Hall, play wide receiver. So it's different guys out there that they played it, and you could tell which one to play which.

Yeah, so you definitely played wide receiver. You played offense, right? Yes, I played one receiver. Yes, I was still like a wide receiver. So those guys think more like a wire receiver and can kind of process the game a little bit quicker. Did Carlos Rogers play offense? Yeah, listen to me. I had always told people this when Carlos was here.

It was his vision. Yes, he needed contacts. So he led Lasix. And once he got Lasix, he led the league in interception. And what they had to tell by Carlos Rogers, he was never out of phase. Even when he was blind on the field like Stephen Wonder, he was never out of phase. And the ball would just hit him in the back of the head because he could not see. But then once he got that fixed, simple fix, you see him which is peak.

What if I told you that only one will be here next year, Duron Payne or John Allen, which one would you want it to be? Ooh, that's a tough one, because one is not only a detackle, good detackle in his league, he kind of much the verbal leader. One kind of just let his play talk because talking ain't really his theme. One youthful, then the other one, one I owe no cap money. Well, when I say no cap money, no whole cap money, because the sign and bonus is gone. And see, there go my separation with it right there. I still owe pain concrete guaranteed money where I don't owe John Allen any money.

So he would be my flex player, then he would be the one player that a team feel like they'll one or two, a player away from winning a championship that would value him enough to come give me what I want for him. But because of the cap reason, it would probably, cap reason and age, it would have probably be keep, I'm keeping pain. And I would probably deal, John, because I know I'm dealing with. with a team that I can really will and deal and probably enough if I've really pushed it

and winning a trade, maybe a lower draft pig with him, I can probably steal a late first round from a contender somebody like the Ravens. No, you're not going to get a late first round. I can get a late first round by putting the third with it. I mean, putting the third,

I put the fourth with it. Like, if I want to get it, I can get it. Which of the two would bring back the most trade value? Of course, it would probably be, and because of contract in youth,

it'll probably be pain because of leadership, a team that feel like they're missing a little leadership that the Texas or somebody. Like, I think it's so situational. You don't know, and it's all about who wants you. Who feel like they need you?

So I would have to look on the roster of the teams that's already playoff-bound teams and say, who can't stop the run. That's going to be the person they want to add a John Allen to their roster. All right. Offensively, who do you definitely want back? Okay. Offensively, I start with Logan Thomas. I feel this. If Logan Thomas is my second tight end, I got a great tight end rule. I want to bring him back because in the second tight end role with Litch Rips, I can expect for him to play more games. And I think being hits,

he would be more effective playing behind whatever mismatch I bring in like Brock Bowers or something. So he'll be a great, also great teacher, also great pass blockers. Still would be a red zone threat. So he would really be high on my list to bring back. Now, the whole one that I'm going to have to figure out is what am I going to do with Curtis Sanders? Because people can say what they want to.

He's been consistent all year long. Yes, he has been. So the question is, do I want to bring him back under the captainama that he wants? Or do I really want to just get bigger in that position anyway? Because I do got to hear. I do got Jahan? Do I want to bring me in a stupid speechster? And do I want to bring me in somebody that's 6-4, 6-5 that can catch bad balls with a big catch radius?

So that's going to be the only thing with him. And I think I'll lean to the ladder, and I might end up just letting him walk. and I would probably replace him with a vet and a young specious guy. But then at the end of the day, we also got to talk about, you got Antonio Gibson, you got B-Rob,

and I think B-Rob is most definitely the future, and with Chris Rod Regan still under contract, and I don't think Gibson will be on the contract, I probably got to bring his replacement in that probably runs a, like I got to have that game breaker, that 4-3 guy, that 4-2 guy, the running back. I don't know if I find him in the,

draft, I find him in free agents, but I got to have that guy that's a mix match, a guy that comes in and is a threat to break it anytime he gets his hand on the ball, and we have to talk about the officer lines. You know how that goes. I feel like this. I think Charles Leno has had, you know, a good year. Can't say it was a great year, but I think he had a good year. He's another guy if he's your number two.

You might got to help the officer line. If I can bring in the left tackle through doing a draft, either doing a free agency, now having Charles Leno is my right tackle. Now I have a chance to solidify my line, and nobody's talking about Sam Cosme, because San Cosme is quietly having a damn year. He's having a great year of playing a go-up position. So you've got some people inside there,

but offensive linemen, man, and people don't understand. It's a shortage of offensive lineman in the NFL. This ain't just a problem with our team. This is a universal problem. So to snag a draft picking, to snag a top of the line free agent and be able to shuffle with some guys and make them your number two, now you have an anchor over line. And if you've got those big boys, you always got a chance to den. You know, that's such an excellent point, not that you don't make them all the time.

But I'd add to that if you and I haven't had this conversation before. Offensive line play overall is not very good. Look, for those of you that are convinced that this is the worst, offensive line in the league. There are various metrics out there. You know, you take the next-gen pass block win rate. We're 15th in the league in that. Now, I don't see a good offensive line when I watch them, but there are lots of bad offensive lines around the league. The other part of this, too, Fred, and I think maybe we have talked about this, is because of the way college football is played with the spreads, with, by the way, a lot of RPO where you're

allowed three yards down the field, different pass blocking. It's getting harder and harder to evaluate college players, and that's why you're seeing a lot of teams whiff in the draft on offensive linemen. It's not like, you know, you just take the kid from Notre Dame and you pencil them in for 10 years. You don't know that. It's another crapshoot area of the draft. It's become, so, So, yeah. And I'm hearing that the scouts is harder for the on the track these guys, now that you've got the portal. Now, you're studying a guy one year, and he's running this offense in this game,

and you study him the next year trying to find him, and he's running this scheme, and he's trying to figure out, is he having a down year because they switch scheme, where he's having a down year because he just can't do what they ask for him to do so. It's so much going into the office game, and let's not be honest. Most of the 6-6-300 pounds, they have. actually want to play defense. And that's the problem. The defensive line area is flooded with talent. Some of that talent needs to switch and play offensive linemen because I remember the days of Larry

Allen, and he was a defensive offensive lineman. So when you get guys like that, like, you know, Philadelphia has found a way to identify guys by simply saying if you're 6, 6, 6, 7, 300 pounds, and you can move, we can teach you technique. We can make you get around a guy like. like Kelsey, give you some DNA, and help you understand and simplify the game for you. So if we have parents rushes that practice that you go against every day that some of the top pairs rushes in the lead, you too will get better. Still, sharp and still, shop and iron, shop and iron. At the end of the day, there's these out of things that make the pedigree to a good team.

All right. We'll let Fred continue to play GM and we'll get to the big question of the upcoming offseason for some. That is quarterback. And we will do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to WindowNation.com. Take advantage of an outstanding offer right now. Buy two windows, get two free.

You're paying half price on the windows plus zero percent financing for five years. Mention my name. You'll get a free estimate. You've got nothing to lose. We saw some snow florees today, actually. The weather is going to turn colder here in the next few weeks. If you've got older windows, it's going to cost you a lot in heating bills this winter. 30% is what Windonation's new windows can save you in terms of energy bills.

But you've got to get new windows to take advantage of that. Window Nation's a top five window retailer in America. They've installed over 200,000 windows in the last. year alone 40 times more than the average window company 96% of them have required no follow-up service they get it right the first time they measure each window three times to ensure proper fit and I've been working with window nation for 14 years and I promise you I would not still be endorsing wind donation if the experience that I and so many of you have had with them wasn't first rate that's what they do

they get it right the first time they get it right all the time time. 86690 Nation, windownation.com. All right. I saved the best for last. You're the general manager and you're picking fourth in the 2024 NFL draft. Caleb Williams, Drake, May, Jaden Daniels, you know, that seems to be where we're perhaps headed in terms of the top three. You won't more likely than not have a chance for Caleb Williams unless you decide to trade up. But how do you approach, right now, based on what you've seen from Sam Howell, 13 games this year, how do you approach the offseason and the quarterback question? All right, great, great question.

Now, we're going to go two options. If we move forward, meaning we want to move up, and you say we do have a fourth pick, if I want to move up to a point that I'm chasing Drake May, I might as well move up and go and get Caleb and break Caleb Williams home. It will be no bigger attraction, no bigger thing in football than that situation. If I'm going to do that, I'm probably going to have to give up my fourth. I'm going to have to give up both of those seconds, and I'm going to probably have to give up a first round of next year. And if you think he's a generational talent, if you think he's the next pet Mahon,

if you think this guy can be in your organization for 15 years, if you think he can turn around everything here, if he think he can get all the bad spirits and all the smud and be all the answer, Yes, I go up and I get him and I put him with Terry McLean. I put him with Jehundi and I put him with an offensive line. And I make it happen because I can get out my offensive line capital from free agency with some chiseled veterans in a way to protect him. So if I'm going to go all in and I want to make a big old splash because everything brand new and we got that new cost mail,

I'm going to go up because I got the fourth. I told you you had to crash and burn to get what you want. So at the end of the day, the Texans, they made a run, they got stride, they end up getting Will Anderson, and now they're right in the ticket theme. It only takes three or four players, especially with a roster that you've seen at times can play with teams and can be there. You add three or four players like that to the roster. It changes everything.

So if I'm moving up, for Caleb, I would, especially because all the situation, everything that come with it, I'm willing to do that. I'm willing to sacrifice. Everybody's going to be like, oh, this RG3 all over again. No, it ain't. At the end of the day, this is what it always is. No quarterback, no chance. But if you're telling me, which you know I love saying how,

you know, I love the young Al Wolf, but if people telling me Caleb is generational, if they tell them Caleb is generational, I'm going to do what I got to do to get the generational player. Now, if I stay put a move down, the question is, how do I feel about the left tackle from Penn State, How do I feel about the left tackles, period? After I worked them out, what do I feel like the gap is?

Do I feel like the gap is big if I don't take the first one at four? And what's the difference in me taking the next one at 12? All right, that's the thing. Who wants to get to four to maybe draft Jane Daniels because I love Sam How? That's the guy that I'm dealing with. So if I'm trading down, I'm going to trade down from anywhere from 9 to 13. I'm willing to do that, and I'm going to do that by acquiring. Oh, I'm literally getting your first.

I need to get a couple of things from you second, and now I'm going to start to win a deal, because now my eyes are on Brock Bowers trying to match him up with Sam Howe, and me getting a office alignment with that new first round that I got, late first round, and I still got two-toes. We just got to make sure that this young wolf doesn't have a red wedding experience. That's all. It was bad going to be a red win, but he has rose.

He came back like, Judge Snow. He came back to life. All right. I want to read, it's like a perfect segue into reading just three quick notes that I got after the show yesterday when we talked a lot about quarterback. So this came from Jason. He writes, because this encapsulates really the views about the whole quarterback situation. Jason wrote, Kevin, why would anybody think taking a quarterback?

in the top four, the draft is a good idea. When Sam Howell's proven, he's a starting quarterback. I don't have a problem drafting a quarterback later on in the draft, but this team needs to build around Sam rather than starting over. So that was from Jason. This was from Terry. Terry wrote, Am I really hearing fans of this team saying no to drafting a quarterback

if we've got a top five pick? The Snyder's scars are affecting brain function. Revisit the last time we didn't take a QB. How many sacks did Chase Young have here? I'll hang up and listen to the answer. But then here comes the best one. This came from Yanni. Yanni said, Kevin, if they think a quarterback in the draft at their draft position is much better than Sam Howell, then pick him.

If not, then don't. That one gets my blue ribbon because that's what it is. If there's a quarterback there that you can either get by trading up or picking in your spot, that you have a, you've evaluated as a quarterback with a much higher ceiling and you believe is going to be much better than Sam Howl, then you have to take them. If you evaluate these quarterbacks and you say, look, I don't love any of them, then you build around Sam Howell. It's that.

Yeah, and no only isn't that, you got to understand, you do it selectively and understand if I do get a Caleb Williams and I do give up some picks to get him, Guess what is a high commodity that the Ford, I mean that the Falcons would love to have. Oh, they would love to have Sam Howe. You won't think I can wheel and deal on draft day? Well, don't start talking first round picks for Sam Howell. Please don't do that. No, no, I'm not going to get no first round.

But I'm sure. I bet you I get me a great quality pick for him. All right. Also putting me back into the draft again. Like I said, it would be no, it would be nothing wrong if they came out and say, we're swinging for the fences. It'd be nothing wrong if they say we got a quarterback. Now let's just put all these great players around

because we have all this draft capital. So it's ways to get it done that can both work. Do I believe in Sam the Young Air Wolf? You know for yourself. I do. I believe in him. Do I believe that it could be a guy there that, like you said, feeling is higher?

Yes. It's all about what the team wants to do. But don't forget the elements. You got new ownership. You got, like, new everything. Like, so nobody's always know this. Every time we got a new head coach, we as players, new personally, ain't too many of us safe because everybody don't fit everybody's skin.

All right. So it's always new when new comes. And you're talking about everything new from the top down? Like, anything is possible. As we're sitting here talking about this, CBS Sports.com just put out their updated mock draft. Chris Trapposo wrote it. This is a shocker, actually. The Bears, number one overall with Carolina's pick, take Drake May. The Patriots with the number two pick take Jaden Daniels. And Caleb Williams slips to number six past Washington to Tampa. Look, these mock drafts, we've all watched this for years.

Things will change. But I bring it up because I want to ask you of the quarterbacks, because you like Clinton, when I have conversations with the two of you, you guys watch a lot of college football like I do and you love it. I'm a massive Jaden Daniels fan. And he's going to fly up boards, I think, between now and the end of April. So give me your quarterbacks. You've already expressed how you feel.

about Caleb Williams, what about Jaden Daniels if he were to fall the number four and you've got the fourth pick? What about Bo Nix? What about Pennix Jr.? Do you like any others more than you would like building around Sam Howell? Well, the thing about it is it's two people in his world get paid to tell lies, and it's the weatherman when he says it's partly cloudy, and then he turned around and page says it's partly sunny, which is the same as that same as that day. And then every draft guru in America paid to tell lies. All right, he's going to think about it.

We see this every year where you have your top three guys, maybe, and then one guy comes out of nowhere because he looks good in the draft. Then you've got two more prospects only for all sell them to get to the league and two of them to play for the next 10 years. He's going to think about it. I always say, what's your comp? Who would I comp this guy, too?

All right, when I look at Drake May, I see somebody with a slender though, I mean a slender body, but also a guy that can get out the pocket, can make some things happen. For him to have a long arms, he got, he still zips the ball, quick release, love to see it, has played on the chaos. I love for my quarterbacks to be bathed in chaos, meaning I like for them to go to a nun, like a nun, Alabama, Ohio State. I like them to play for an inferior team and make their team better, so he got that reading all over. I see a little bit of Trevor Lawrence in him. Like, that's what I would say about him. More of a, you know, a Walmart, a Trevor Lawrence, you know.

That's called, that's called poor man's Trevor Lawrence. Yeah, because you love Target. Okay, fine, fine, whatever. So I love Drake, mate. By the way, I love Walmart, but the way you said it, you weren't saying, You weren't saying he's the Sacks Fifth Avenue version of Drake May. You weren't saying, yeah, you were saying Walmart. We understand what Walmart is.

Walmart is outstanding. I actually worked with Walmart for many years back in the 90s. Made many a trip down to Bentonville, Arkansas, which is where they're based. But continue. Yeah, but what I'm saying, Walmart is a great franchise. I think he could be a great franchise player. Jayton Daniels is the one that I think I have. had to really do some study. I've been watching them. Of course, I watched him pretty much every

game. But the thing about it is, to break the film down on the guy, I had to see why he's making his plays. I've seen him throw from the pocket, sometimes feet kind of jumping, but I also stands in the pocket and throw the ball against some of the best defensive backs. Proving that he can really be a dual threat. Can it be a true dual threat in the pros is a question because the speed level goes to a whole other level. And Is he going to be selective when he do it? Then I got to ask myself, is his ceiling so – because if I draft a guy in the top five, top ten, his feeling got to be – it got to be way higher than Sam.

And the one thing I got with Sam, he's proven. You don't think they'll rather have Pittsburgh or rather have Sam. Do you not think everybody that had a draft besides Purdy in their draft would rather have Sam right now? You don't think the Jets would rather have Sam a proven commodity. So am I willing when I could actually add some big-time players with Sam and move forward? I don't think the equation works for me with Jane Daniels. Do I think he can be a great player? Yes.

I would rather invest in my roster with Sam before I draft him. Michael Pennix Jr. I think, you know, let's see him in big-time games. I want to see him under the light with. people that he's not familiar you're playing. It's always easier to play your comfort because you know him, but when you play out of comfort

sometimes some guys get undressed. I want to see where he does in those games. And Bo Nix is basically the Santa Claus of college football because he's been in like 15 years. So you know the one thing about him. He's going to be... Santa's been around for a while.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Been around for a long time. So he is the guy that you say, I got all the film in the world with him. him. He's the guy, he's to me the Brock Purdy of the draft, won't get drafted as high as the other one, so he's going to end up going to a contender. And if he ever gets a chance to play, that'll be the last time that the starter plays with the team he's on. All right. Last one, because, you know, in thinking about what we started this conversation,

I didn't ask you, but I wrote this down to make sure that I asked you before the end of this conversation. You were on one of those teams that really crumbled here in Washington, and it was the last spurious. It was the last sprier team. The last sprier team. You know what professor, you are the riding professor from now because your studies go into breaking people down, but go continue. I'm sorry. Well, look, what makes a great marriage and a great relationship is compromised. So we talked about the future, which is what you wanted. Now we're going to do what I want to do. So the end of that year, was Spurrier, I don't think I've ever asked you this.

Was Spurrier just completely checked out at the end of that year? Yeah, you know what? More than checked out, I would say he was burnt out. I would say he had, for the first time, I think football became a business, and he coaches with love. I always knew college was his heart. because in college you have more of an imprint as a coach on the game than you do on the pro level. College, he had more of a love for it.

I saw coach be drained of his happiness while he was ending those last couple games because it was for the first time for him, it felt like work. And I think that was the difference. And if I could say anything coach did that he should have kind of really focused on. on, and it should have been the pro-staffed. He brought a couple of people from college to fill in gaps you can't do. We just seen what they did to our defensive backfield this year. So at the end of the end of, you've got to have the white coaches.

Coaching these players are you can only sabotage them and set them back. So I think if he was surrounded himself with some good chiseled pro coaches that would have made him stick to some defying and some rules on offense, I think we would have had a chance because we did. We did have an athlete, but at certain times, we just literally got blew off the field, and that didn't feel good. Did you, you know, we've seen a lot of pick sixes in Washington games here over the last few weeks. Yeah. Did you ever have a pick six in Washington?

I never got one in Washington. They all came in Minnesota. In Minnesota. I knew you had one or two in Minnesota, yeah. Yeah, yeah, they all came in Minnesota for some reason, you know? actually some of those picks got up Mike Tomlin the job in Pittsburgh. He was our defensive coordinator while I was in Minnesota. Right.

Do you... Yes, and I had the William brothers, Kevin and Pat. Oh, yeah, the two tackles. Do you, you know, there's discussion that Mike Tomlin might be available, that Pittsburgh may finally move on from Mike Tomlin. Really? Would you want him here? Oh, no doubt.

Who's going to turn that Mike Thomas? I agree. I agree. That's a no bracket, but me and myself, I personally don't see Pittsburgh moving on for Mike Thompson like that. Like I haven't heard that. And I'm in the NFL circles. It's been a story here the last couple of days, you know. I mean, moving on from Matt Canada, that was so unlike Pittsburgh to fire a coordinator in midseason.

And there, you know, look, he's been there forever. he's never had a losing season. More likely than not, although with Pickett Down, who knows. I mean, the game tomorrow night, the Trubisky versus Bailey Zappy game, the total in that game is 30. It's the lowest total in the NFL in 30 years. But anyway, who is you? I'm taking him hands down. The discipline, the mindset, he brings to a team, and you know the one thing about him, he's very cerebral. So he learns from his mistakes and new situation.

Him being from the DMV area, he'll be from Virginia. He'll see this roster. He'll see 80 million. He'll see, yes, yes, he would see him how. He would most definitely be on that. And then you've got to realize you can look at the pattern from the Harris group, Doc Rivers, the hockey coach, all these. They only have like great proving coaches sometimes.

They usually kind of be where they start their search it. Who was you, you know, we don't talk about you enough when you're on with me. So I'm just going to do this for three minutes. Because you played, you know, we've talked about Marty having been the guy that drafted you. And Marty's one year here. But man, you know, you mentioned Tomlin and it made me start to think you played for some good defensive minds. I mean, starting with Marty, you had Marvin Lewis. You had Greg Williams here in Washington.

You talked about Tomlin. You really played for some outstanding defensive NFL minds. Tell me about the ones that were, you know, the most influential for you. Well, the great part about them, Professor, they were all so different. And so that allowed me, and they go to misery. The success, they come from misery, it allowed me to learn four or five different schemes, allow me to, in my head, can play anything. Think about it.

started out with Marty Schottnerheimer. Me and Champ Bailey, Darrell Green, all press man. We played a little off man, but we was most definitely an aggressive team, getting your face, bump and run, get the job done, slightly add a linebacker to the rush, and that linebacker would be LaVar Arrington, had Bruce Smith as a pass rusher. So, at that, mixed to all the coaches I had with the Hall of Fame I play with, and there goes some great defense.

we ranked high on defense. So not only did I have Marty, all right, then I go, and I tell you something about this, about Greg Williams, all right? Hold on, hold on, hold on. I start with Marvin. I started with Marvin.

Marvin, multiple. And he does, Marvin was very situational. Now, but everything we've done, it mostly looked the same. So we got the lineback in the A-GAP for a, I mean, for a blitz. We got the lineback in the A-gap

for the zone play. Like he made everything look the same, but we would play multiple things. Very situational, the guy, red zone, doesn't look anything like we play at midfield when we backed up. So I learned overall defensive discipline from Marvin Lewis. Then I fast forward to a Greg Williams, who is a mad scientist. He is coming up with things nobody does but us.

We're playing goal coverage. That means that the cornerbacks, we're reading two to one. So if I got a slot on my side and my slot runs a five-yard out, I attack him. If he goes vertical, I continue to go vertical with number one. I said, we had so many different disciplines that we got out to the quarterback, and we got out to quarterback multiple ways. We're going to do press coverage. We're going to do off coverage.

But one thing I love about Greg Williams, we knew when we was getting turnovers because we got him at practice, he skewed turnovers. If we planning on picking their playoffs in third and long, we are going to pick it off in the game. was a mystery with him, very much scheme happy. Then I get to Mike Tomlin. Now, Mike Tomlin is about more discipline, technique style. Now I'm going to get schooled in the reverend of what cover two coverage is.

I've been a man cornered my whole life, so I got to adjust. Now I'm super part of the run front. He taught me how to play the cover two triangle. So if you're at the cornerback position, basically my movements mimic a triangle, and I have to go at that triangle. So he also taught me angles, anticipation, stuff like that, how to fluff his own, all of that. So I got all kinds of schooling and all by these different senseys and out come me, Bruce Lee, aka Friendly. Wow.

That's so interesting. I mean, really so many different influences. Did you ever think about coaching? Oh, yeah. Coaching was on my mind, but people don't. understand how much time out of your life these coaches spend over there. It's a lot more time than the football players. It's a lot more of your life.

And I had gave Fred Smoot the football player three-fourth of my life, if not even more at that time. And I want to live for Fred Smoot the person. And the person want to do other stuff, and I'm allowed to still be a part of the football because of all the TV and radio. So that does it for me. For now, I can't say I won't ever get

the culture because I'm very good at it. I'm putting together right now a football university that's going to have a little bit of everything with it. It's not only going to be for the football players, it's going to be for every aspect of it. I'm going to need your help with that too on the media port because I'm going to have media classes. Also, I'm also having a cheerleader port. So it will be the first football camp that you're able to bring everybody from the family. Mama and dad included, if they want to get in TV and ready or be educated about anything when it comes to training and taking care of players, every aspect of the kids. of it, I will be doing it. But when it comes to coaching right now, I think I need to let Fred

smooth the talk could go out there and make his mark. Yeah, well, and you've got to focus on your relationships, and we've got a good one going because we're not afraid to argue, and nobody leaves with their feelings hurt. So great job today. And we're not afraid to share with each other. Sharing is caring. Sharing is caring. That's a good one to end on. Great job. I appreciate it, always hope you're well. Anytime, Professor. Fred Smoot, everybody. And that is a wrap for today.

Back tomorrow with Tommy.