The Kevin Sheehan Show - Washington's Schedule Harder Than You Think

Episode Date: May 16, 2022

Kevin talks some NBA to start then gets into a story that describes why the Washington Commanders' 2022 schedule is harder than you might think it is. Then Ben Raby/Caps Radio Network joins Kevin to discuss the end of the Caps' season and where the team goes from here. Then it's Ben Standig/The Athletic talking Commanders' and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. On the show today, two Ben's. Ben Rabi from Capps Radio and Ben Standing from the Athletic. We will talk Washington Commanders with Ben Standing a little bit later on in the show.

Ben Rabie coming up here as the first guest shortly. Ben is the pregame intermission and postgame host on Capitals. Radio the Capitals on Friday night. losing to the Panthers in overtime four, three, and another Carter Verhege goal in overtime. The Caps had the lead in the final three games of this series when they were up two games to one. They lost all three of them,

and they are out for the fourth straight year in the first round following that magical 2018 Stanley Cup season. So we will talk to Ben about the Caps and what happened in this series. I know they were a big underdog, huge underdog in this series, but they had a legit chance to win it. I mean, it is the case in hockey. Five of the first eight series went to game sevens,

and the two game sevens, I did not see a lot of the Saturday game seven activity. I watched a lot of the game seven activity last night. The Rangers Penguins overtime game that was followed by the flames winning an overtime over Dallas. Incredible drama, hockey, game seven. overtime. It really is as good as it gets in sports. I know I'm not a hot, a massive Caps fan. I've been very honest about that. For whatever reason, it's just never been a passion of mine. I'm not a big hockey fan, but I am a big Stanley Cup playoffs fan, especially these big time game sevens that are hard fought. The three games

sevens on Saturday, all were tight games as well. None of them went to overtime. The two games last night went to overtime, but it's high drama in the Stanley Cup playoffs. By the way, played, you know, in front of incredibly passionate crowds, loud crowds. The crowd last night in the garden for the Penguins and the Rangers game seven was incredible. Rangers rallying in that series from three games to one down to win that series four games to three. I know a lot of Caps fans are thrilled that if they can't move on, the next best thing is the Penguins losing. So you got that at least. But Ben Reby, coming up on the show, we will talk about the Caps loss on Friday night. And what's next, really, because this is an aging team and there are lots of decisions to be made by owner and GM in that

organization or organization, as they say, in hockey. So I did watch the game sevens in basketball yesterday. Real quickly, I liked Boston before the series with Milwaukee. I think they were the better team. I really do. And I think that, you know, they prevailed with what was one of the better, you know, do or die performances in a game six down three, two by Jason Tatum on Friday night, had four I think Tatum is now one of the best five players in the game. He is spectacular, and Boston has a lot of help as well. They won that game on Friday night by 13. They blew out the bucks in game seven. No Chris Middleton was a big part of the series for Milwaukee. I totally understand that. They lost game seven by 28 points. The two game sevens last night blowouts of epic proportions, although both were different. The Boston Game 7 win, Grant Williams, this was a guy, I'm going to pat myself on the back a little bit. In that 2019 NBA draft, there were a couple of guys that I really liked, and I liked for the Wizards. First of all, and I mentioned this prior to the draft, I was not a big Rui Hachamura guy.

I was more in terms of the Gonzaga guys, I was a much bigger fan of Brandon Clark. Clark's turned into a really good player in Memphis. He's better than Hachamura. He is. I'm not dismissing Hachamara's potential, you know, because Hachamara is actually, what he did before this last season was impressive to me, and I actually was starting to believe that I was going to be wrong

about Hachamura versus Clark. I don't know that I'm going to be, but I think Hachamara has still got a chance to be a really good player. Trust me. But I love Brandon Clark's energy and competitiveness. He's turned into a really, really good player. John Morant, by the way, speaking of Memphis, was the player that I loved in the draft. But back to Grant Williams, I pushed him before that draft as a guy that I thought, you know,

was a first rounder and was going to make a team and was going to be a much bigger contributor at the NBA level than a lot of other people thought because he wasn't overly explosive. He wasn't super athletic. But I loved him. I loved watching him at Tennessee. I just thought, you know, right situation. He was going to be a longtime contributor at the NBA level, and he had 27 in Game 7 yesterday.

Seven made threes for Grant Blanking Williams in a Game 7. Now, it's easy to play off Jason Tatum, especially after Tatum had the epic game 6 that he had. And they've got so many other options. They left Grant Williams. That was the choice. You leave Grant Williams open a few times. fine. After he's made three or four, you better make sure you don't leave him uncovered. He buried

him and they rolled in game seven. Here's an amazing statistic from that series. Boston made 53 more three-pointers in the series than Milwaukee did. How did the Bucks even get it to a seventh game? They got a little bit lucky, and not just lucky, but it was an amazing kind of comeback when in game five to take the series back to Milwaukee with a chance to close it out in game six. But 53 more three-pointers made by Boston than Milwaukee. That's amazing. Amazing. The other thing that's amazing is the Boston home crowd.

I don't know if there's a better, certainly not a louder home atmosphere than the Boston Garden for Celtics playoff games. It was phenomenal yesterday. Okay, the other Game 7 to me is more of the story. Because what happened last night in Phoenix with the top seed in the Western Conference playoffs, 64 win Phoenix in Game 7 at home against Dallas was shocking. I kind of liked Dallas going into the game. I'm not betting these days.

They were a six, six and a half point dog. It wasn't that they were begging you to take Phoenix because they were pretty much a six to seven point dog in all of the home games against Dallas in this series. The stunning part of this is not that Dallas won the game. It's not even really that Dallas won by 33, although that's pretty shocking. It's that Dallas led at one point in the third quarter by 46 points.

Remember last week we talked about Memphis's lead over Golden State in game five when they were down 3-1? They led by 55 points in that game at one point. I've never heard of leads like these in the NBA playoffs. In any level of basketball, do you have these kinds of leads? They were up 46. It was 57 to 27 at halftime. Phoenix had 27 points at halftime. halftime.

Luca had 27 in the first half. Spencer Dinwiddie had 21 in the first half. Yes, he of your Washington Wizards. I loved the Dinwiddie trade. You know, coming off the ACL, it was going to take him some time. I thought that could have been an outstanding back court. Now, you know, he gets dealt with Davos Bertans to Dallas for Christop, you know, Porzingis, and we'll see how that plays out.

But I liked Dinwiddie. For whatever reason, it didn't work here. I don't think it worked with Beal. And because of it, West Jr. moved on. I think they got the player right. Maybe not the fit for whatever reason. I don't know. Spencer Dinwiddie ended up with 30 last night in a closeout game 7 on the road.

He had 30. But Luca had 35 in 30 minutes. And he was the star of Game 7 Sunday yesterday. What a performance by Luca. you could tell early on that he had killer in his eyes. And he filleted Phoenix last night. It was an embarrassing and humiliating loss for Phoenix. And Luca put it in their face all night long,

or for the first three quarters, he didn't have to play the fourth quarter. God is Luca good. And, you know, what's amazing is he's, 23 years old now, and you have to earn your stripes before you contend or win an NBA title. And if he goes on to win a title this year at 23, it's amazing because again, this is the NBA. It takes years of failing. He lost in two straight, you know, playoff years to the Clippers and to Kauai Leonard, you know, in long series. And nobody expected Dallas to win this series.

Everybody was expecting a Phoenix, you know, Golden State more likely than not Western Conference Final. And Dallas, you know, first of all, they won game six by a lot, which gave you pause if you thought Phoenix was just going to roll in game seven. And, you know, they went in there and they had the best player. He's better than Booker, and he's certainly better than Chris Paul. But he's better than Booker, who's been considered a major superstar. Devin Booker had two points in the first half and finished with a last. in a game seven at home. Embarrassing performance for him.

Chris Paul is done. He's done. His window is shut on a title. And anybody that agreed with the top five point guard, you know, conversation with Chris Paul in it, and I told you you were nuts then, I hope you understand how completely off that was. He's a first ballot Hall of Famer.

He's an all-time great. He might be a top 10-point guard of all time. I won't dispute that. He's not a top-five-point guard of all time. And Chris Paul was horrible in the back half of this series and embarrassingly bad last night. They had no answer Phoenix did, and I like Monty Williams as a coach.

I like him a lot. They had no answer for the doubling of Booker all night long. Chris Paul had no answer to every, switch, every switch on pick and rolls, he was terrible in the game. Ten points, four assists, he only got eight shots up, couldn't get to the elbow to save his life. He couldn't guard anybody in the game last night. He's a major liability on defense and has been, maybe more than I've thought, until you start to watch the playoffs. He's 37 years old. I get it. I'm just saying, one of the great all-time greats, which he is, he's done. This team's not going to contend

for a title with him as their starting point guard anymore. They're going to have to completely redo it around Booker and Aiton, I guess Aiton. He was terrible. He had five points and four rebounds in a game seven. You know, Phoenix has a big problem because, you know, they lost in the finals last year, Chris Paul's chance to win an NBA title finally. They were thought to have a really good chance to win the NBA title heading into this postseason. This was it. This was their chance. I mean, do you think that Dallas is going to get any worse?

I mean, Luca doesn't even have a supporting cast, and he's into the Western Conference finals. Do you think in the, do you think Golden States not going to be around for a while? You think Memphis isn't better? What about the two teams that have been injured here, like Denver and the Clippers? What if Kauai and George are both healthy next year? What if Jamal Murray's back next year, which he will be, along with Michael Porter Jr. Like Phoenix, they're competing for something is over.

And ain't happening. This was it for Chris Paul. This was the chance. And he really wasn't very good in this series. Anyway, I like Golden State in Boston. I picked before the playoffs started to make the finals. I like Golden State, but God, man, I'd give, you know, if I were betting these days, I think I might throw something on Dallas plus 190. I like Boston too, but God, this is a showdown, man, right? Between two

playoff killers and closers in Jason Tatum and Jimmy Butler. Two super well-coached high IQ teams. the Eastern Conference Finals will be fun to watch. If I were forced to bet and pick, I'd pick Boston, Golden State, and then Golden State. But both of these series are going to be incredible. And Lucas scored more points against Golden State than any team has against Steve Kerr since he's been the coach at Golden State 2014 and 2015. So there you go on the NBA. Before we get to the two bends, I want to talk a little bit more about the NFL schedule,

but not in the way you think I'm going to talk about it. It's in a way that I don't think you've thought about it unless you read what I read over the weekend. Some of you sent this to me. It was a piece written by Warren Sharp. It was titled, Who Was Hurt Most by the NFL Schedule Release? and Warren Sharp, for those of you who don't know, is a longtime NFL football and gambling writer. And I referenced him on the show maybe a month ago

when he put out his own schedule strength rankings, but it wasn't based on teams records a year ago. It was based on projected win totals in Vegas for next year. And I mentioned this is a better way to do it because doing it based off of last year's records, it's not the right way to do it. Your schedule strength going into a season, if you're projecting what it's going to be,

it should be projected based on what you think the teams on that schedule are going to be. Not what they were last year. The league changes so much as we know. That's why I referenced Warren Sharp, you know, a month or so ago. So he put a piece out over the weekend, and it's very interesting. And I'm actually kind of upset that, I hadn't thought of it before because I do so much schedule talk with my mock schedule,

et cetera. And whenever we talk about the importance of when you play a team rather than the team you play, it's usually something where we are referencing, you know, if you get lucky and you face Green Bay and Aaron Rogers is injured, you're playing them at the right time, you caught them at the right time. You know, if one of the two games against the Cowboys is a game in which Dak Prescott and Michael Parsons are both hurt. You caught Dallas at the right time. So, you know, it's about when you play a team, not the team you're playing. But he goes into that in a much deeper way. And I'm going to try to

explain it as quickly and as concisely as I can. Essentially what Warren Sharp wrote is that the release on the schedule Thursday night, where the games that you already knew about in terms of who everybody was playing, but the dates and times put on the game were significant because ultimately it creates what he calls a net rest edge, net rest edge. The net rest edge is the days of rest a team has by game summed over the course of the season. He gives an example. He said this year, the defending Super Bowl champion L.A. Rams play the opening Thursday night game of the year against the Buffalo Bills on September 8th.

And then they don't play again until the following Sunday, which is 10 days prior to their week two game. Their week two opponent is Atlanta. Atlanta plays on Sunday, September 11th. Atlanta has seven days to prepare for their week two game against the Rams. The Rams have 10 days to prepare for their week two game against the Falcons. If you're following this, this is what creates a net rest advantage or disadvantage. In the case of the Rams, they're plus three days over the Falcons for that particular game. They got three days more rest. In the case of the Falcons, they're minus three.

They got three days less rest. last year in the overall season net rest numbers. So you do that for every single game. Do you have a net positive, a net negative, or is it even? And then at the end of the year, you have a number of whether you were on the positive of net rest days, you had more days to prepare for your games, or maybe you had less. You were in the negative. Last year, there were six teams in the NFL with season-long,

net rest edges of plus nine days or better. Two of those six teams, the Bengals and the Rams, the two teams that played in the Super Bowl. The Bengals were plus 11 days in their rest advantage over the course of a season. Now, he also gives the following example. He said last year, teams with a rest edge of three plus days going into a game, went 33, 23, and 1 were 159% of the time. Since 2015, he wrote teams with a rest edge of over three days win 53.8% of the games. That doesn't seem like an overwhelming percentage, but it is a percentage where the team with more rest wins more games than not. It's a pretty interesting betting information. He had that, by the way.

He said teams with a rest edge of three plus days last year covered the spread 54% of the time. And since 2015, they've covered 52.7% of the time. So if you just are a better and you went in blindly and said, I'm only going to bet the teams that have a plus three day or more rest advantage, if you bet enough based on the last six years of data, you would have made a profit. You would have made a profit with any size bet, but to make the profit worthwhile, you would have had to bet more because the advantage was just 52.7%.

But anyway, his point was that the dates of these games matter. And now that brings us to our own Washington commanders and their 2022 schedule. which many of you have said, whoa, starts with Jacksonville and Detroit, the two teams with the top two picks in the draft. And, you know, there's not the list of quarterbacks that they faced last year. And it looks like a pretty manageable schedule. Well, Warren Sharp wrote the following. He wrote, in a very strange way, in very strange fashion, excuse me, the NFL made three different teams each play four games versus. his opponents off of what he calls a mini-buye.

A mini-buy is a team that plays on Thursday and then doesn't play again until the following Sunday or Monday. That's a mini-buy. He writes, The NFL made three different teams play four games this year against opponents, opponents off a mini-by. And he writes, this happens when you play a team coming off a Thursday night game so that that team has three extra days of prep and rest.

Last year, nobody played four opponents off many buys. This year, it's happening to three teams. Last year, nobody played four opponents coming off many buys. This year, three teams are going to play four opponents coming off many buys. And I'm sure you can guess who one of those three teams is. The Jets, Jacksonville, and Washington. He writes, The commanders remarkably play four games.

with three-day rest advantages. This happens for them in week 10 when they play the Eagles who played the previous Thursday night, so 10 days ago in week 9. It happens to them when they play the Giants in week 13. The Giants' last game was Thanksgiving 10 days prior to that game. It happens to them on Christmas Eve when they played the 49ers. the 49ers played the previous Thursday in week 15, 10 days earlier. And it happens to them in week 18 when they play the Cowboys

who played 10 days earlier on a Thursday in week 17. And Warren Sharp writes, not only is Washington playing four teams off mini-bys, they are playing all four very late in this season. So that is a disadvantage. Now, their overall net, rest number is minus one for the season. But again, they are one of just three teams that has four games against teams coming off 10 days rest when they only have seven days rest.

There's one other thing he points out. Washington is one of five teams that has at least three short week road games. What's a short week road game? A short week, a short week road game, excuse me, is when you are playing on a Monday night and then you play the following Sunday on the road. Or you are playing on a Sunday afternoon and your Thursday night game is on the road or your Thursday game is on the road. That's a short week road game. Washington is one of, I'm sorry, six teams. playing at least three of these. The Eagles have four of them. And then the Patriots, Saints, Colts, Bills, and commanders have three of them.

Washington's happen, okay, when they play the Chicago Bears on the road on a Thursday night following a Sunday game. That's a short, week, road game. Sunday, and then they're on the road. And when you're on the road, you have less time to prepare because you have the travel in there. then on Monday night, November 14th, they play Philadelphia, and then the following Sunday, they're on the road at Houston. And then on Sunday's December 18th, they're at home against New York, and then they're on the road Christmas Eve six days later against San Francisco.

So that's also a disadvantage from a scheduling standpoint that Washington's one of only six teams in the league that have at least. three of those short, weak road games. Anyway, just thought I pointed out, maybe you're not a believer in any of this. The numbers certainly on the net rest play out, not in significant fashion over the last six years. Last year was a high number at 59% of the time. But if you're wondering, by the way, overall, you know, using all of his, you know, rest kind of information. Washington has the 27th least favorable schedule in the league out of 32 teams.

27th. Last year it was 30th. The easiest when it comes to rest and short week road games and things like that. The Panthers have the easiest this year. All right. Up next, Ben Rabie, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Ben Rabie coming up, then Ben Stand again. after him, let me just remind all of you who have not rated and reviewed us, wherever you're listening to this podcast, but especially on Apple and Spotify, if you find the time and you can do it, it's really helpful. On Apple in particular, five stars and a quick one to two sentence review is really, really helpful. Many of you have done it, and I know it gets repetitive and maybe even obnoxious for me to

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All right. Let's bring Ben Rabie onto the podcast. Ben joins us right now. Ben is the pregame host on radio, the intermission. host, the post-game host on the Capitals Radio Network. You can follow him on Twitter at Ben Rabi 31. I know how big of an underdog they were in this series, so I'm not sitting here asking you why they didn't win this series like I'm surprised.

But I do want to find out from you about a team that was in it the entire series and had a legitimate chance to win why ultimately, you thought they didn't get it done? Well, self-inflicted wounds and some mismanagement issues on their own end. You know, you give the Florida Panthers the credit, Kevin, the highest scoring team in the NHL, but they're a team that, given the matchup here, the Capitals have to be, we'll say, nearly flawless against. You know, it's hard to play the, quote, unquote, full 60-minute game.

That's not easy to do, but they look good in spurts, Kevin. They looked good for stretches. They went out to leads. They built leads. in each of the final three games of the series that they ultimately fell in, games four, five, and six. They showed themselves well for stretches. They just didn't do it long enough. And to me, and there are different areas you could point to where the series really slipped away from them.

A lot of folks looked at game four, where they led two to one with just over two minutes remaining and ultimately lost that game in overtime. I point to game five, Kevin, a three-nothing lead on the road. It was early in the second period. lot of race track left for the Florida Panthers, but the Capitol's inability to hold on to that three-nothing lead, some turnover issues that the Panthers took advantage of. You know, they're a fortuitous bunch of the Panthers. They pounce on turnovers and they have a high-octane offense, and if you make mistakes, they'll make you pay. And the Capitals made too many of them, and as Brian McClellan acknowledged at the Breakdown Day at the exit interviews, the disappointing thing

is that a number of those miscues were made by some of the Capitals, usually most reliable and trusted players, number of veterans were guilty of some of those self-inflicted wounds we're talking about. So the frustration is the fact that they were there with the Panthers and ultimately quite a few mistakes, for lack of a better word, did them in and the Panthers were able to take advantage of. I'm curious to find out what your overall thought on the goaltending in this series was for Washington, primarily Samsonoff.

This was a big concern, whether it was Vanichek or Samsonoff, going into the series. Ultimately, did they get good enough goaltending to win? Yeah, they got good enough. I'll say they didn't lose the series because of the goaltending. You know, it was not unlike for much of the season, it was good. It wasn't great. They didn't necessarily lose the series, though, because of the goaltending. And I think during the regular season, they lost several games, really, because of goaltending issues. Samsonov, I thought, for the most part, Kevin and his four starts and a relief appearance, so five appearances total from San Sonom. I thought he showed something. I thought he showed himself well.

Unfortunately, I thought the worst game for him in the series was ultimately game six, the deciding game on home ice the other night. But I thought he showed something. I thought it was a good stretch for him. Was it enough to suggest, okay, now you hand him the reins. He showed us something. He'll be our number one, no question next season. It didn't play out quite like that. I think the larger body of work, I think they head into the offseason still with several questions. You showed himself well, but still a lot of questions

at that position heading into the off season. You know, overall, I mean, look, they were a heavy underdog in this series. They were the eight seed, as I pointed out early in this show. And they ended up, you know, pushing Florida, the one seed and the president's

trophy winning team to six games, and it could have easily gone to a seventh game, with that said, this is four straight years of a first round exit. Before we look forward in terms of what may be coming in the change category, do you think that, you know, did anybody, Ben, really expect after the Cup in 18 that they would be back to kind of their old ways of this thought, even though it didn't happen in this series, of underachieving in the postseason? Yeah, no.

If you had said this in 2018, certainly not. I think there was a real appetite to build on that cup win and they had broken through and they had, quote, unquote, learned to win and learned to deal with the ups and downs of postseason experience. No, certainly there was a large appetite. And without going into too much detail here, Kevin, that's actually why, of all these series that they've lost since 2018, I actually go back and I remember. thinking it even at the time.

When they lost in 2019, just the year after the cup win, they lost at home. It was a game seven double overtime against the Carolina hurricanes. T.J. O'Shee was injured in that series, and he was sorely missed. But I felt that year, 2019, Alex

Ovechkin had such a good season and a good postseason, a good first round series. Nicholas Baxter, well, I'm sure we'll get to here, had such a good 2019 season and a great post season, and I felt they had that that year, 2019, slip away. And then the thought was, well, they were tired.

It was the year after the Cup, but it was still the honeymoon phase of the Cup. The fan base didn't give them a hard time. I thought there was really something there in 2019 where they could have made a legitimate run at a second straight cup win. You still had Braden Holpe being goal. You still had so much of that core from the prior year from the deep run. In the year since, the 2020 bubble was an underachieving experience. I don't know how all invested they were in that bubble experience.

Rono last year, 2021. They were a banged-up bunch. They had so many injuries in their first-round series loss against Boston. And then this year, they really were, they were competitive. This year is more disappointing, I'll say, than each of the previous two, because they were there. They were there against the president's trophy-winning Panthers, despite, you know, being heavily underdogs and, you know, appropriately so, given the way the regular season played out. Does any of what's happened over the last four years take the glow off of 2018? No, I don't think so. I don't think so. No. I mean, just imagine if they didn't have 2018 and they were still going through this. No, not at all. I think 2018 was so special. But because, Kevin, not because of what's happened since, does it take any of the glow away? I think what led up to 2018 made it really glow, if that makes sense. All the disappointments and the heartache that they had gone through to finally realize 2018. No, and I don't believe any of this narrative that, you know, Ovechkin and the core, they quote-unquote need to win a second Stanley Cup to, I don't know, legitimize legacies and all that.

No, I don't think this, I don't think the glow could be taken away. Yeah, I agree with that. And I feel that all of that pain, not just the pain of the Ovechkin era prior to 2018, but the pain is a franchise going back to all those soul-crushing, you know, 3-1 series. lead, you know, defeats led to a feeling of satisfaction among the fans. You know, I actually, it's funny, I ran into Mike Rizzo last week, the general manager of the Washington Nationals, and we were talking about how, you know, so much has changed since 2019. But what led up to 2019 were these painful Game 5 losses at home, you know, to St. Louis,

into the Cubs, into the Dodgers. And it kind of made it sweeter when it actually. actually happened in 2019, and I think the 2018 Cup is the same. I think one of the conversations that's an interesting one to read about over the weekend and to talk to various people who are in my life who are hardcore fans of the team is that the last four years, like if they had gone, say, second round and out, a conference finals here, and maybe, you know, a first round loss and a second round loss. If that had been the track since 2018, it would have been a little bit more in terms of an easy swallow. But the fact that it's been four straight first round exits,

even though there was a game seven double overtime loss to Carolina and they took Florida to six games when they were a big underdog, it just, you know, for them, they'd never trade, obviously 2018 for anything else. But it just feels like, you know, it's back into that rut again. Yeah, well, I'll say the fact that Ovechkin has maintained his level of play since 2018, Kevin, I think that could ultimately be the regret. Again, I don't think you take anything away from 2018, and I don't think there's, quote-unquote, more disappointment now because they couldn't follow up 2018 with another deep run.

But I do acknowledge, and I do look at the pace and the level at which Ovechkin has continued to play. And the fact that that maybe hasn't been fully taken advantage of, you know, by those around him, because he's certainly done his part. He's done the heavy lifting. I think that, you know, you could look back years from now and say, oh, it's too bad they couldn't take advantage of that individual specifically with another deep runner too.

All right. Let's talk about what's next, because this is a big topic now after four first-round exits, obviously. and Alex Hovechkin had another terrific regular season, and he wasn't completely healthy for this series, and they were without Tom Wilson. So there were reasons why perhaps they weren't able to finish the job when they had opportunities in game four and game five against Florida.

But what's next? You get asked this question, or you've been asked this question over the last couple of days. What's your answer to what this team's path moving forward should look like? Well, they'll have an interesting offseason. and there's no question because there's no denying, as is Brian McClellan G. I acknowledged yesterday, four straight first-round exit, changes are coming. They're going to explore their options, and I think the wording he said was, you know, no option will be left off the table here. Priority number one needs to be, you know, we touched on the goaltending earlier, certainly to address that position.

And you can make a case too, Kevin. That's why these past couple of years have been a little bit of a missed opportunity as well. because there hasn't been a lot of money spent at the goaltending position. And that's not because they've gone cheap. It's just the nature of two young goaltenders who are on their early contracts. There wasn't a lot of salary cap-based allocated. They didn't have to be a lot of salary-caps-based allocated to that position. And they couldn't take advantage of that. It's not unlike in the NFL you have a quarterback on his rookie deal.

The appetite is to take advantage of that, right? And you spend elsewhere and you could make the most of that situation. In this instance, the capitals haven't been able to take advantage that the goaltending hasn't been good enough. And so there will be an appetite, I think, this summer to address that with a veteran who could either become the number one or certainly push one of these two kids to become the undisputed number one. I don't think you're going to see VTek-Vanezac and Sampsonov both come back next season.

It's possible, but I think they're certainly going to explore their options before, you know, inviting them both back and resigning both of them for next season. And then around that, there's an appetite to get, you know, you want to get older, you want to get a veteran and goal, but you want to get younger elsewhere on the lineup. The oldest team in the NHL this past season, you know, obviously that has much to do with the core, which has been together for so many years. There is a desire to get younger up front, to give, you know, an increased role. I'm going into some detail now to what Connor McMichael, who was just a rookie this past season,

You know, that was acknowledged yesterday as well. So a little bit of a transition, not a reset, not a rebuild. They're not using words like that, but just to, you know, get a youth influx to surround the veterans who've been, you know, carrying a heavy load these past few years and who are clearly feeling the wear and tear as several of them have dealt with injuries over the past couple of seasons. So you don't see a big name being shipped out, you know? I mean, I was doing some reading over the weekend. You know, Lars Eller has, you know, a year left on his contract. Carlson's got this massive contract, and, you know,

there's some that believe the timing would be right to move on from him. But you don't see anything like that happening. I have not seen or necessarily heard John Carlson's name linked in those talks, maybe, but I will say you brought up Lars Eller. that would make sense, for lack of a better word, just in terms of if you are going to bring in a veteran goaltender, they're a salary cap-strap team right now, the caps. They've spent up to the salary cap over the past several years. They have a lot of players locked into a long-term deal.

You're going to have to clear space if you want to add a few dollars. And Lars Eller entering the final year of his deal, that's a contract you could potentially move. And I referenced a moment ago, Connor McMichael. they envision him plain center, and if you have Kuznetsov, if you have a healthy Baxter, which is a big if, but if you have Kuznetsov, you have Baxter, you have Baxter, you have Nick Dowd, lower down the depth chart. I'm going through the centerman here. If you want to get Connor McMichael in, there might be a vacancy if they move Ler, and the appetite to move on from Ler might be to create the salary cap space.

You could address your situation in gold. It's just it's all dominoes, Kevin here. One domino falls, and they all. all follow, but yeah, there would be a need to move somebody out, be it the names we talked about or somebody else, just to create that necessary cap space to strengthen yourself and in the other areas of need. Brian McClellan said he was proud of the job Lovillette did. Do you agree? Given the circumstances, yeah. Yeah, it was a tough, it was a tough year. They not once had their optimal lineup at any point this season because of the health and the injuries and all that. It was there was a challenge in that regard and thought the game plan was there for the first round series against Florida.

Again, it just wasn't executed for long enough stretches. Last one for Ben Rabie, who's joining us. Do you think that Ted regrets, and I know Barry Trots got fired last week, I understand that, and maybe very prematurely. I don't know you're an expert on that. But do you think he regrets after winning the cup not keeping his head coach? around to try to defend it and push forward with a group that, you know, for the first time in franchise history, they were able to win a championship with?

Yeah, I can't speak for him, but when I look at the opportunity that was missed, as noted earlier in 2019, you do wonder, given the high that they were on after 2018, if that could have carried over and the bond that was there and so many of the players returned and what that could have or would have been like. But, you know, certainly, and then you look at 2020 in the bubble and losing out to the Barry Trotsled New York Islanders in that postseason series, the optics weren't especially good. So, yeah, that's going to be one of those, one of those what if for many years to debate. It's a legitimate question. I can't answer on behalf of them, but it's a very valid question, certainly. I lied. One more. How good were those games last night,

the two-game sevens. Yeah. Oh, it's great. It's great. And even going back to the Saturday, it wasn't overtime, but the Toronto Maple Leaf, you know,

coming down to the wire and falling by one goal to Tampa Bay. And real quick to bring it full circle, we were talking earlier, the caps, the Nats, all their post-coming, shortcomings,

post-season shortcomings, and ultimately, you know, how rewarding it meets those championship runs. Golly, I don't know when the Leafs, if they're ever going to break through, but,

a fifth straight, you know, opening round exit for a team that has aspirations of a deep round. But the hockey this weekend was terrific, certainly. Ben Rabi does hockey, but his first love is college basketball. Who knew? Thank you for doing this. It's great to catch up. Appreciate it. Likewise, Kevin.

Thank you very much. Thank you. All right. Up next, the second Ben on the show today, Ben Standing. We'll talk some NBA, but we'll talk primarily Washington commanders. football. That's right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, on the podcast, as he's been many times before, is our good friend Ben Standing. Ben writes for the athletic. I would urge all of you to subscribe to the

athletic, not just for Ben, but for all of the writers who cover all of the teams, but the local teams here are covered by some really good ones like Ben and Tark al-Bashir and others. It's cheap to go to the athletic, subscribe, and you can read Ben every single day. Ben, of course, has his own podcast, Standing Room Only, and you can follow Ben on Twitter at Ben Standing. Before we get to the football team, because you covered the NBA and the Wizards for so long for various outlets, what did you make of the two game sevens yesterday? In particular, the Dallas blowout last night of Phoenix, which featured an incredible performance by Luca Donchich, but also 30 from Spencer Dinwiddie, who used to play here

for those that didn't know that. Yeah, I mean, I did some radio on Sunday, and we had Michael Lee from the Washington Post on as a guest, and we were previewing the games, and I said on the Dallas-F Phoenix game, I was like, look, I get, we're saying Phoenix is the deeper team, and beyond Donchage, it's harder to count, on anybody else on Dallas, but if I'm Phoenix, I am absolutely petrified of Donutsch in this game because he is just, it is the next step is just waiting. We're talking about who is the best player in the league and the Janice, is it, Durant. Donich is there.

We just haven't officially said it yet, perhaps. He just leaves that moment, and yesterday I think was that moment. I'm not saying he's better than those two guys. I'm just saying he is that good. and the energy he came out with at the beginning was, I'm not losing this, you know, MF game, and then the teammates came with him, and Dinwiddie, who's been kind of inconsistent in these playoffs,

I think, to say kindly, has a game where you're like, oh, you're right, this is that the Wizards got rid of this guy, wait, what's going on here? Yeah, he couldn't miss anything, and what an absolute train wreck by Phoenix. To lose, look, Milwaukee lost game seven, the defending camps. Okay, you know, whatever. I mean, Boston made every shot. Bucks wore that. Chris Middleton. Okay, it sucks.

To lose the way Phoenix did, I don't know what the word beyond embarrassment is, but it's that. It is insane to get destroyed that badly at home. When you were in a year in which it was considered to be a pretty even field of the playoffs, you were viewed as the team to beat. That is off-the-charge crazy. They trailed in this game, and I talked about this in the year.

open to the podcast. They trailed in this game at one point by 46 points in a game seven at home as the team that was the best team in the regular season. They were down 46. Like I can't remember. I mean, we saw a game in the Golden State Memphis series, which was stunning. I mean, Memphis in their game five win to stay alive, they were up on Golden State at one point by 55 points. in a game. We've seen some just unbelievably lopsided games in these postseason, in this postseason, but a 55 point lead in that game, which is unbelievable to be up 55 on anybody at any level of basketball. And then last night in a seventh and deciding game, the road team was up 46 in the third quarter, up 30 at halftime. And Donchich had 27 and Dinwiddie had 21. They had

48 to the 57. I mean, the Suns Ben only had 50 points at the end of the third quarter. They had to score 40 against the Mavs' backups in the fourth quarter just to get to 90 and lose by 33. It really is one of the more unbelievable Road Game 7 wins I think I've ever seen, and Phoenix was humiliated. You know who was humiliated? Forget about Chris Paul, who's 37 years old. because I've never considered him a top five point guard in this recent conversation whenever and however it originated. I can't ever remember now. I think Chris Paul's a really good player.

He's a lock hall of famer. He might be a top 10 all-time point guard. He's not a top five all-time point guard. Okay, but I wasn't, you know, I'm not expecting, you know, Chris Paul necessarily to lead them last night. Devin Booker had two points at halftime and finished with 11 in a game seven. I mean, anybody that thought Devin Booker was a top five player? No, Luca Donchich might be the best player in the game. Certainly, you could argue that he's a top three to top five player. And he

averaged 32.6 points per game in the series and had 35 last night. It was just a shocking performance. I actually give Dallas a chance against Golden State. Do you? I don't give them a chance. Like, I haven't made, like, in my head, an official prediction. I think they could absolutely win the series. Oh, yeah, me too. That's what I'm saying. I mean, yeah, yeah. I mean, look, I mean, the Warriors are, it's incredibly fun story. I would be very satisfied for me of Golden State goes on to win the title. And obviously, Steph and Clay, we're doing their thing, and Dremont is annoying, but, you know,

effective act as well. But, like, we, you know, we see they really don't have much in the way of defense right now and whatever. So they can be beaten and lose. as great as Curry and Claire are, Luca is the best player in the series. And we'll just see what Golden State can do to slow him down. It's not like, I mean, Golden State supporting cast. You know, in the past, like, in different years, we talked about how LeBron had no supporting cast.

Go look who's playing with Luca Donchitz. Get out of here. There's like nobody here. They're going, wow, that guy is just auto... I'm not sure there's any other player on the team. You say, why, that guy is the Wizards, and they're automatically better. Like there's nobody,

that they have, no, good players, but he's the one making the whole thing work. They don't even have Tim Hardaway. I don't know if he'll be, Tim Hardaway,

Jr. I don't know if he'll be back with an injury, but they are just role players and one great player. But I think that could still be good enough to beat Golden State, which would be a really entertaining series. Yeah, you know, it's been obvious,

you know, the two series that they lost to the Clippers in back-to-back years, and one of them in the bubble were highly entertaining series where Donchich was incredible, but Kauai Leonard was just better. And Kauai Leonard's team was better. And Luca's been coming, and what is he now? 22 years old? I mean, he was like 20 for one of those series,

so I think he's 22 somewhere around there. So it's been obvious that Lucas, you know, on the verge of becoming one of the great players in the game. He also has been annoying to people and fans because he runs his mouth a lot. He complains a lot. And last night, man, I mean, the joy and the lipping, you know, involved in him embarrassing Phoenix on their home floor was amazing to watch. But he's now to the point where if they push Golden State and they win it,

he has arrived. And that is early for an NBA superstar to arrive in terms of postseason results. You know, it's a league that tends to take a while for the superstars of the game to win, you know. And Donchich could do it this year. I think I like Golden State to win the series, but, you know, there's a good buyback on Dallas at like plus 190. It might be worth it because he may have already arrived. I mean, that performance last night and the performance since he missed, you know, a game or two in the first round series. whatever it was. It's just, it's incredible. Yeah, he had, like, you know, when we have all these debates about best player or whatever,

and like you mentioned a guy like Devin Booker, who's obviously very, very good. But the difference for me is always that whatever the sport is, some people have that I have the Tiger, for lack of a better phrase, and plus that song came on the radio the other day. Some guys are talented, but some guys have that other thing. And I'm not putting Luca Donchage's in the Jordan's Magic Bird, Tiger Woods level by any stretch because he hasn't done enough yet at his young age.

But at the same point, watching him play the last couple years, he has that thing. He has the ability to, in the end of the games, a particular, make the winning place. And what's crazy is he watch him, he looks like he's in slow motion. He's not doing it with some crazy athleticism. He just clearly sees the court like three steps ahead of what everybody else does. And then yesterday in particular, what it said to me was he came out there and basically told Phoenix, it is not today. Get out of here. I'm just for a run over you.

And that's not something that all stars do. Not everybody has that. That's less of a knock on those other players and more of praise for someone like this guy who does. does. And yeah, it's cool. If you told me he is the best player in the league right now and we have an officially set it, that wouldn't surprise me. I mean, he is that good. This is where, you know, when people like you and I, who both really would love to see the Wizards become an NBA championship contender before we move on to whatever's next, this is where you really have to kind of get lucky. And I'm not saying that Dallas got lucky,

but Luca Donchich wasn't a known player for the most part. He was the third pick in the draft behind Aiton, who was the first pick in that draft, who was number two in that draft? Wasn't it Bagley? It was Bagley. It was Bagley. So you got Aiton. Aitin's a fine player.

But, you know, it's just like, you know, you've had this, you know, the Janus is getting picked in the teens, and the Kauai Leonard's getting picked in the teens. And, you know, the Wizards didn't have a chance to draft Lucas. of Donchage, I'm not saying that they did. But this year, wherever they end up, you know, you kind of have to get lucky. Like if you end up with, you know, the seventh pick or the ninth pick or the 11th pick or the fourth pick, you know, you have to end up getting that generational superstar, that player that ends up becoming one of the best, if not the best players, you know, the best

player in the game. And then you can contend for NBA championships. Without it, you really can't contend. And Jason, and Jason Tatum has risen to that level on the other side. I will tell you this. I was in that 2019 draft when Grant Williams went in the 20s to Boston, wherever it was. I forget where it was now. He was one of the players, along with Brandon Clark, that I really liked. Not necessarily where the Wizards were selecting. I forget where they got Rui Hachammer and that draft was like 10 or 11, wherever it was. It was nine. Okay, it was nine. But he was one of those players. I'm like, this guy is going to be a really good NBA player. Now, he benefits clearly from being on the same floor with Jason Tatum. But that was an incredible performance from, for those that missed it. And I know not all of you watch the NBA. Boston won with an incredible performance on Friday night to force the seventh game from Jason Tatum. He had 46 on Friday night. And yesterday, you know, Tatum, didn't need to go for 46. Grant Williams and his third season out of Tennessee,

a guy that was, you know, said to be too slow, unathletic at the time when he got drafted. Yesterday, ended up with 27 points, made seven of Boston's incredible 22-3s, and a blowout went over Milwaukee in Game 7. So we'll have a new champion this year. and we've got two really good conference finals. I kind of like Boston, even though I would never count out Jimmy Butler. I think these are two incredibly well-coached teams in the Eastern Conference finals. But I kind of would lean Boston.

I would lean Golden State, but at this point nothing would surprise me. But I'll go Boston, Golden State, Golden State. What do you got? Boy, I really want to pick Dallas. I think I'm, well, I think these are pretty incredibly even. I mean, I'm kind of with you on the Boston front. I get a little nervous when you're telling me Marcus Mark is their primary ball handler in late game situations.

But, you know, Kyle Lowry's got to get banged up at a minimum for Miami. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, I think what you're saying is the conventional way to go. And I don't mean that as a knock is, I mean, that seems like a reasonable way. I don't know. I may put some, I may like Golden Starb, Dallas enough to consider a wager if that's a prudent move to make. But, yeah, I think what you're saying is reasonable. I mean, by the way, I'll just say this relative to the Wizards, when you look in particular at Boston and Miami, you know, right, you've got to get lucky in the draft and all kinds of variables. You know, the Wizards got very lucky in 2012 when the Charlotte, when Charlotte was the second pick, skipped the better player in Bradley Biel to take the guy who couldn't shoot in Michael Kiddcliffe. And that type of luck needs to happen in order to, you know, just in general,

you also have to get lucky in some years when you have the third pick that there is a guy like Luke Godinche, who, you know, he may be exceeding expectations to a degree, but he had ridiculously high expectations. In some years, you get the third pick, and there's no obvious choice. And that's how it works. But from a culture perspective, Miami in particular, but Boston, I think, as well, when guys come in there, they are told, they understand, here's what it means to win here. Here's what's expected of you. And this is like what Ron Rivera talks about with the commanders.

Like, we'll see if he gets there. It isn't just put talent on the field and go play. There's an ethos. This is why the Terry McCorn thing is so interesting, because he isn't just a town. talented player. He's a guy you're out of the guys to emulate. And Boston and Miami have that. The heat culture, that is a real thing. That's not just marketing. And the wizards have just lacked that forever for a variety of reasons. We don't have time to get into, but they have lacked that from ownership down. And this is why they get nowhere and why some

other teams, the pieces may change, but they still figure out ways to win. All right. Let's talk Washington football team. You are on the radio show with me, but you have not been on the podcast with your reaction to the schedule. I went through in the opening segment of this show, the Warren Sharp, I don't know if you saw it, I should have asked you before, but Warren Sharp went into what he calls essentially, you know, the net rest edge, you know, where you essentially add up the days in which you're playing opponents with a net rest advantage, meaning you played on a Thursday, they played on a Sunday, so you've got a net three days advantage. And you add it all up, the disadvantages and the advantages to come up with a net

rest number. And last year, two of the highest net rest numbers were the Rams and the Bengals. And they both made the Super Bowl. Teams with three plus days of a net rest edge last year won 59% of the games. So other than that piece, what was your reaction to the schedule? Yeah, you know, when we discuss how they have the easiest strength of schedule or tied with Dallas or one of the lowest, you know, one of the easiest, depending on which metric you use or whatever, you understand what that means on a certain level in terms of the potential to win games. But then when you see it laid out, the exact order, you also realize how unsexy it is. This is last year they had so many tough opponents, but that made for the viewers really interesting opponents because you have so many quarterbacks, you know, Rogers, Josh Allen, Mahomes, Tom Brady, and so on.

And this year, it's kind of Aaron Rogers, and, you know, we already know about the division games, but Aaron Rogers, and then that's kind of it, from that, from that level of appeal. So it's not the most glamorous of schedules, but it is one that is there for the taking. And, you know, they've had some. slow starts, the two years under Rivera so far. Wow. If they have a slow start this year, I mean, we can start talking about, you know, is Dan tonight going to look to make a change? Because you have the teams that have the first and second pick in the NFL draft. Yeah. Oh, wait a minute. Hold on. Hold on. They lose to Jacksonville and Detroit. Ron Rivera gets fired. Yeah, I'm just saying like that, that will be 100% what you're talking about. lose those games. A lot of people will be talking about that. I personally think that the season

would really have to fall apart for Rivera to lose his job next year. But that might be the beginning of a total fall apart season. I'm not expecting that though. But by the way, imagine, and this is, my point, the pressure of opening up with Jacksonville and Detroit is on Washington in a major way. You know, those two teams might end up being a lot better next year than their drafting position in April, you know, as a reflection of last year, indicates, you know, this happens all the time. You end up playing teams and it's like, whoa, we played them when we thought that they were going to suck, but it turned out that they were great. I pointed out that in 2017, they played the Rams in week two, and they won the game, but it was really close. And everybody thought that Washington would be much better than the Rams that year. That was Sean McVeigh's first year, and the Rams turned out to be an 11-5 division-winning playoff team.

But anyway, go ahead. More on the schedule from you. Well, yeah. Well, I guess to be clear, because, like, the aggregator, I'm not, I was telling cheek. There's no, there's no danger here. All I'm saying is that schedule, you can't get an easier schedule than, I mean, I wonder, I think I said the few the other day. I said it somewhere, at least. Has there ever been a team that opened the year

facing the two teams that had the first and second pick in the NFL draft that they earned the pick? No trade up. They earned those picks. You can't have, again, based on what happened last year, you can't have an easier start, which is great, again, because they need one.

And then it starts to get obviously progressively harder from there, the next three opponents, the Eagles, at home, Dallas, at Dallas, Tennessee here, made the playoffs last year. And then the next like sort of four games, like there are some teams that are going to be sort of

kind of in the same boat as Washington, your Indianapolis is, your Minnesota, you know, Chicago maybe isn't as good, but it's on the road on national TV. Like, you know, there will be some interesting games here, some measuring stick games, I'd probably say. So, you know, we'll

see. It's the schedule that's there for them to take. I mean, when you talk about a team that won seven games last year, when the defense crater when you lost your starting quarterback in the first half of the first game, injuries, whatever, and they still won seven. This is a schedule, especially with the new quarterback and all that you can project 10 wins and kind of go from there.

But the other teams are also looking at Washington and saying, we got that one too. And that's where, you know, no matter what Ronda Vera says or no matter what we can look at on paper, they have to actually show they can get these games on. but it's there for them, but the schedule is obviously not that difficult, relatively speaking. All right, let's talk about what's next. Where do they need help and where will they find it over the months between now and training camp beginning? Yeah, I mean, they obviously, you know, I think like offense, I'm not saying they don't need, like, better, they have all pros everywhere.

But in terms of, like, the roster and making the team and competing, I think they're largely set. the defense to me is where there's still more questions at all three levels. Linebacker is the obvious one. We're talking here Monday morning. They've made a couple of minor ads today. Some underapped three agents, they also released linebacker Jordan Kudasek, which I guess I'm a little surprised at just because he's been around the last couple of years for special teams. But they still need, I don't know who's a third starter is in a four-three base right now at all.

Is the second starter definitely Jamon Davis? Well, I was about to say, like, I mean, you know, I'm just going to say yes, because that's what he did last year. The question is going to be, you know, to what level? You know, where is he at? If he's just a guy or is he actually somebody who is looking like a first round pick? But like I said, even beyond that, like, I don't even have a clue who the third player

would be. And then even from a death perspective, you know, it's not like, you know, I know I know Colee Cudson was around the last couple years. But he barely played last year even when. they had their various injuries. And yet, I don't know. So I'm kind of waiting for that to happen. I know I've been told that they've inquired

with some of the veterans out there, a linebacker, and I wrote about this today on the athletic. But I feel like they still may be looking, this is a buyer's market across the league. There are a lot of viable free agents out there. And, you know, we're reaching that point where guys are going to have to make a decision. am I taking cheap money to get a job, or am I going to wait it out and see what happens with injuries or whatever? And I think Washington is sort of playing that game right now where they're looking at guys and saying,

we're not offering much right now, but we are offering opportunity. So we'll see if anybody bites before camp. So there's out of it. But, yeah, you could add, to me, a veteran cornerback. If you want to talk about another safety, that's fine. I think I've been told they've looked at defensive tackled because obviously they did that. They did draft the Darius and Mattis, but they lost two guys, and I and I didn't settle. So, you know, do the math there.

So I think defense to me is where I would expect some additions, but, you know, again, we'll just have to see if any of these things happen this week. I mean, logically, I just think they have to, especially right when Del Rio makes those comments the other day. About how they got up to this slow star last year in part because guys were missing and whatever he meant exactly, the larger context would be, if you're going to have people, that you want to bring in, why do it now? Like, why don't wait two weeks into this stuff? If all these OTAs mean something, we'll bring the guy in now.

What are we quibbling about here? So I don't know. That's how I would look at it, but we'll see. Who do you think Jack Del Rio was referring to? Because he talked about a secondary that didn't, you know, come together until, you know, later because of some of the off-season misses. And I'm assuming, you know, OTAs. I mean, who was missing last year?

I mean, the highly publicized missing person was Chase Young because he didn't make any of the OTA days and was the only player out of 90 that didn't show up once. But who was he referring to in the secondary? Yeah, it makes no sense based on how he framed it. The only thing I could imagine is Landon Collins was not 100% because of the Achilles. but that's different than saying a guy, like the way he phrased it like a guy sort of skipping OTA. So I don't really know.

I'm trying to get some more clarification on that. But yeah, I don't know. And I'm almost kind of, I'm saying dismissing it, but it doesn't make whatever he said makes no sense. So I'm assuming he's, my kind interpretation was basically he's referencing that because Chase Young and some of the other guys who missed at least the day were on the defensive line that. they're not being there, maybe

you know, disrupted the timing when you're trying to have a new guy in Williams Jackson, you know, Bobby McCain kind of fit in. Again, that would seem to be even that a bit overdramatic, but okay, whatever, I'll leave that up to the coaches. But yeah, I have no idea what he's talking about.

I haven't talked to anybody who does either, so it makes more sense. I know you told me last week on radio that you don't think that there's a very good chance that Landon Collins comes back here, that that ship is kind of sailed and it just usually doesn't happen and he'll be looking for another place. But I think there's still a chance that John Bostic returns. I mean, sort of adding to this

conversation of them being short linebackers and not only being short linebackers, but being short kind of coach on the field defensive players in general. I mean, I know that they saw progress from Cole Holcomb last year in kind of that role, but I don't know that the trust is there. Jack Del Rio and Ron Rivera really trusted John Bostic. And I believe there's a chance that if they don't get a showbird or they don't get a Klein or somebody like that, that Bostick could end up being re-signed. What do you think? Look, John Bostic is a super nice guy.

He's good for the locker room. You know, all those things are all true. I would just be unbelievably uninsthewed that they brought him back in any capacity. Now, they may be more in line with you. I just don't understand what would be the point. Like, he was not, I mean, at best he was like a replacement level player on the field. Like, it wasn't like, before the injury, we were like, oh, boy, that John Bostic is really playing well. And if you're really telling me that you have to have a coach on the field to that degree,

that says something to me about your coaching, I guess, right? Like, don't you want the better players? Like, and, like, John Bostic is on the list of the people when I, in the article I have up today, of guys who are still out there that you would have to at least keep an eye on. So I agree with that. Plus, unlike Landon and Collins, while Bossick would be taking some type of pay cut, presumably to come back, he's coming off a significant injury, and he's not, you know, he wasn't making, like, crazy money to begin with. Whereas, like, Landon Collins, my primary reason for thinking he doesn't come back is, like,

you'd have to put your ego in massive check to take, I don't know what, 80% pay cut to come back, play for the same place, that people don't do that in any line of work, let alone professional athletes. I'm going to ask you. Yeah. Go ahead. So, Bostic, sure,

I just, especially concerned there's just a lot of linebackers that are out there, like, you would have, I mean, like, look, they had the Thomas Davis thing a couple years ago, right, where he was there purely in sort of that coach on the field role. Okay, fine, but even if you did add Bostic, to me, still, he would have to be

the reserve, not the potential starter. All right. I asked John. on kindness this morning on the show. You talk to a lot of people. Who are you hearing? And maybe the answer is you're not, or you don't think they are necessarily.

But who are they really excited about, giddy about, you know, whether it's a draft choice or any sort of off-season acquisition, but more likely than not a draft choice, who are they absolutely thrilled they have that's new on the team this year? Beyond Carson Wentz.

Sure. I mean, you know, no doubt. I mean, it's probably obvious, but I mean, Jahan Dodson, you know, I've heard some debate, like, did they have him rated over Chris Alabe? I think you may be of asked this as well. And I don't know about that, but, you know, pick him at 16 was still on the higher end of projections that you would, that we were seeing publicly. And I've talked to teams around the league, some of whom who said he, they viewed him more of a second round pick. But Washington absolutely does not see it that way. Again, they picked him, but they're really excited about what he can provide for them. We've heard Ron Rivera discuss this catch radius aspect, so even though he's not the biggest guy, maybe he plays a little bit bigger than his listed height. So I think, you know, you mentioned Carson Wentz. Like the idea of adding this guy, plus, you know, hopefully Curtis Samuel with McCorn really gives Washington a, pretty interesting receiving

core in a better group than Wenz had before. So I think they're excited for that for the player in Dodson and what it means for Wence. And to that point, you know, Cole Turner, the fifth round pick, the tight end out of Nevada, sort of the same thing. I got to want to get overly crazy about, you know, what he may or may not do as a rookie.

You know, he was a day three pick. Let's not go too crazy. But from a potential standpoint, he's got a really good size, you know, basically kind of a wide receiver playing tight end. And, you know, he could be, especially in camp when Logan Thomas is probably not going to be ready right off the bat. I think Cole Turner could be a guy, well, tweeting about a ton in terms of, wow, look at that catch he just made.

Maybe it's coming from a second team rep with Taylor Heineke or something, but I think Cole Turner is somebody who absolutely, they're hoping, could be a contributor pretty quickly. And then, you know, the Percy Butler aspect, you know, again, if you said right now, what's the Buffalo? nickel competition. I don't know. It feels like it's Percy Butler, and I don't even know who else is realistically in the discussion. So they clearly,

you know, again, they may add somebody at some point, but they clearly like him as well. You know, there's the speed, but there's also, you know, everybody's mentioned he was like arguing with the best special teams player in this draft class. I don't think to me, what stands out to me about that is not so much, whatever,

his ability to cover kicks. It's his mentality. the running the run through the wall that you have to have as a special team guy, but you can also translate that. They're hoping to a legitimate role on defense at a position we talked about

a lot. So I think those three guys, to me, especially of the draft they kind of stand out. Okay, last one for Ben. You know, they're giddy about some things. What are they concerned about? And I'm not talking about, you know, the holes

that they still have to fill. Is there anything that concerns them right now from what you're hearing? Whether it's, you know, a Chase Young or a Logan Thomas in terms of the return of the injury, I'm just pulling up your story from this morning. You write about the Terry McLaurin contract and whether or not that could be some sort of distraction. What do you think, you know, other than the addition of, you know, a linebacker and some depth, is there anything, you know, that they're concerned about or worried about between now and in the beginning of the season.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I mentioned the slow starts earlier, I think. Yeah. You know, well, this is the first normal offseason that Ron Rivera will have had since he's been here, right? So, you know, that is something I think, you know, we need to give them the benefit of the doubt when we talk about these slow starts, while, of course, understanding all 32 teams in the league had some version of this, of course, when you're a new coach, it's maybe a little bit different than when you're a guy like a Pete Carroll or Bill Belichick, he's been there for a well. So I think this, you know, from a concern standpoint is, you know, how do they, how can they get these guys kind of going here in this off-season program to ramp up so that they're ready to go when the season starts and not, you know, as we know last year,

they even could have been 0-and-4 to start the year. And, you know, you've got to figure out way. That could have been 0-8. They were within a whisker of being 0-8. I mean, and that would have been, I mean, oh, and 8, they haven't started O-N-8. since I think 1998. I think it was the Trent Green came in year. They were 0-N-8 that year.

But they were. I mean, they needed an off-sides to win in week two against the Giants. And they needed kind of a Hail Mary Prayer touchdown pass, two of them, to McClorn and then to J.D. McKissick, which was a great play. Don't get me wrong from Taylor Heineke. I don't want to dismiss the five-reed quarterback's. of Taylor Heineke on that particular touchdown, go-ahead touchdown to McKissick. But, you know, they were down double digits to Atlanta and should have lost the game to New York.

So they were very close to being 0 and 8. I mean, this is why when we have this conversation about them feeling like they're close. I think they're not terrible. I don't think they have a terrible roster. I think they're, you know, at least nine or 10 rosters in the NFC with quarterback situations that are better. but it's not a terrible team, but when they based it off of last year, I mean, they were nearly 0 and 8 for crying out loud.

They very easily could have been 0 and 8. And not one of the games they lost was really winnable other than the Chargers game, but really they were dominated in many ways in that Chargers game and we're lucky to be in it. Right, and to sort of tie this in with the conversation we had at the top about Luca Donchitz, you know, all we, you know, look,

God bless everybody who wants to defend, this team no matter what and tell me you're wrong, they're great, this Carson Wentz is going to be all these things and all these players they have and believe it around the error, okay, fine, whatever. You're largely focusing on what's on the paper, the depth chart, the potential. But what the real difference is in so many of these cases is the stuff that goes on between the ears and the stuff that goes on within like somebody's this intestinal fortitude that we can't measure.

You can't time these things. You know, like the Carson Went stuff, yeah, I get it. 27 touchdown, seven picks last year. It looks really good. I don't think Carter, I totally get why they made the Carson-Winth trade. I don't have any issue with it, really. I kind of wish they, of course, hadn't taken on all the salaries.

But, okay. But that said, if you really listen to where the issues have been in the last couple years, it's not totally in his play, there are some of that. But it's also in the other component. It's like, you know, his decision-making on the field, why doesn't he just take the lay-up sometimes? Why does he force things so much?

Why is he overly aggressive? Do his teammates always have complete trust in him? I think that's a question at times. Clearly the Colts from the ownership down did not. And this is not about Carson Wentz per se. It's about all the players. Chase Young last year, their defense was far more disciplined right after Chase Young left than when he was there.

Is that going to change? I think that's a question. I know Ron Rivera is saying he thinks it will that Chase Young's doing the right things. I hope that's true. But that aspect of it is so important that none of us can truly measure. You can guess, you can estimate. And I think some of us do a decent enough job of that.

And this is where it's important to not get caught up in whatever the hype is in either direction. You have to look at what's actually happening. But what are these guys about? And this is where the talk of the culture comes into play. And, you know, Rohn Rivera is really trying to push that. And we'll see, to me, this is like the first year where really we get to see what is there. There's no there's no pandemic issue. It's year

three. He's talked about the importance of that. Let's see where they're at from that perspective. And this is why this off-season, how crisp do these practices look? Do they look like a group that is starting to gel but understands what it takes to win? And if that happens, then that looks positive. But we can't just look at the depth chart and say, boy, they've upgraded here. They still need that. These other variables are so hugely important.

And they're just very hard to quantify, and that's why I think you've got to be careful just saying in either direction that they're going to be great, they're going to suck. Again, we'll have to see how these guys perform. But I think there's a reason to be optimistic because it's also major concerns. I don't know how there couldn't be. I agree with you. But I also think that if all of those question marks that not everybody has the same question marks that we have, if they all. all tilt positive, it could be a really interesting season. But, you know, it's hard to predict that.

And there isn't necessarily a track record of that happening with this particular group. Thank you. I'll just say this really quick. Like, forget whether the defense can be a top five unit statistically. Let's just say they're middle of the pack. That's still a little major upgrade from where they finished last year. And Carson wins, look, I don't know. We'll see what happens.

the reason why he's so much more interesting than Heineke, it's not because they're definitely going to win double-digits games, it's because they actually might. But the ceiling on Taylor Heineke basically hit the ceiling last year. He credible to him, good for his job, but there's no upside. Carson Wentz gives you the upside. Then you factor in a healthy Curtis Samuel, the new draft pick, etc.

So, like, there is a reason to be optimistic, but, you know, the getting there is, you know, We'll see if you don't have Rogers, Brady, Mahomes, it's just a lot harder, or defense that's definitively top five or something. It's just a lot harder to automatically say this team is there, especially when they haven't had a winning record yet under this coach. Jacksonville Week 1 offers up a huge opportunity to get off to a good start. Thank you for doing this as always. I will talk to you, I'm sure, soon. Always, man. Appreciate it.

All right, that's it for the day. Thanks to Ben Standing. Thanks to Ben Raby. Back tomorrow with Tommy. Thank you.