The Kevin Sheehan Show - Washington's Top WR Target + Vinny Cerrato

Episode Date: April 24, 2022

Kevin with some news on who he believes Washington's top WR target is in the upcoming draft. Vinny Cerrato was a guest on the show. Lots of interesting stories from his days handling the NFL draft as Washington's GM. Plenty from Vinny on the upcoming draft as well.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. It doesn't cost you a thing. Rate us and review us please on Apple and Spotify if you haven't done it already.

One guest on the show today, Vinnie Serato is going to be on with me. It's draft time. Vinny has very much been involved in analyzing the draft for his. his radio show, which he does in Baltimore. We've had Vinny on the podcast before. It's probably been a year or two, maybe a little bit longer. Can't remember exactly. Vinny's got great stories to tell, I'm sure, about his time here.

Vinny has always been, and I've mentioned this before, while certainly all of us, you know, don't think fondly of those days. and really don't think fondly of many of the days over the last 22 years. Vinny personally was always incredibly pleasant, incredibly nice, and Vinny was always a good guest on radio when we would have him on. I think it's one of the reasons he has had some success in Baltimore hosting and co-hosting a show on Sports Talk Radio, which he's been doing for a few years. So we will catch up with Vinny, I promise, in this next segment and see how he's doing and see what he thinks of the draft, get his thoughts on, you know, potential Washington selections at 11.

And I am sure, as I have had conversations with him here and there over the years, there will be some pretty good stories that he will tell as well. So a couple of things to start. Number one is this. I am convinced that Washington has Drake London very high on their board. Now, would they take Drake London in front of Kyle Hamilton at 11 if they were both there? I don't know the answer to that. My guess is that they would probably draft Kyle Hamilton, but I do know that there are people in the organization that are very high.

on Drake London and have separation at the wide receiver position between Drake London and the other receivers. Now, there are other receivers they like. They like Williams, Jameson Williams. They like Garrett Wilson. They like Alave. They like Jahan Dotson. There are some people in the organization that like Penn Statewide receiver, Jahan

Dotson, who I believe is going to go in the first round. I don't think he's a guy available at 47 overall. all. And 11 is too high. But really the information that I want to get across to everybody is that Drake London is a player that they really, really covet. Again, I can't tell you if they covet him more than Kyle Hamilton or more than maybe another player at another position if that player is available at 11. But as Drake London relates to the other receivers, in this draft. There are important people in this organization that feel very strongly that he is the number

one receiver in this draft. Now, this would go hand in hand with some of our previous conversation, which is he's a bigger receiver. He is the best of the big receivers in the draft. There are similarities to Michael Pittman Jr. They both went to USC. They're both 64-220-ish. that's a guy that Carson Wentz really, really liked and had some chemistry with in Indy this past season.

And Carson Wentz, as many people have said in recent weeks, is better with bigger receivers, more comfortable with bigger receivers with bigger catch radii. Is that the plural of radius? Radii? I think it is. I could be wrong on that. But anyway, Drake London, if he's there at 11 and Kyle Hamilton isn't, unless there's an offensive lineman, because many people, the other thing I was told is that the offensive linemen, the three at the top of the draft board, are really among this group of potential draftees, kind of viewed as the best players in this draft. you know, talking, you know, specifically about, you know, the tackles that could go,

Equano from NC State, Neil from Alabama, and Cross from Mississippi State. Hearing a lot of these guys are just flat out better than other players at other positions. I know technically Washington doesn't have like this massive need for a left tackle. They extended Leno Jr. They feel good, I think, about Sam Cosmi at right tackle. but the tackles, Aquano, Neal, and Cross, and then some of the defensive linemen,

specifically, you know, Aidan Hutchinson, and I know a lot of people like Trayvon Walker, and Washington, according to Ben, they were going down for a visit with Trayvon Walker, you know, kind of a late visit with him during the latter part of this week. Anyway, I'm hearing that there is some real, strong sentiment for Drake London, the wide receiver out of Southern Cal.

Big target, by the way, was very versatile there. He was not just an outside receiver. He got moved around in their system. And Scott Turner loves doing that even with Terry McLaren. I mean, he's matched up his receivers and his backs like J.D. McKissick in a lot of different situations. inside, outside, just trying to take advantage of the best potential matchup. But anyway, something just to keep in mind, we'll see what happens Thursday, and opinions can change between now and then.

And again, it's possible that they're just players on the board that are higher rated than Drake London at comparable need areas or actually in some cases needier areas. and this depth in the wide receiver class that may allow them at 47 overall to draft a receiver anyway. But as far as their receiver board, I've got a pretty good handle on Drake London for at least some key people in the decision-making process. They feel London that there's separation between London and some of the others. Personally, I think Garrett Wilson looks like a guy that, again, I've comped him to Stefan Diggs. I know others have as well, but he just looks like a guy that will make it easy for a quarterback. But he's not 6'4.

He's not 220. And Drake London hasn't run. He didn't run the 40 at the Indy Combine because he was still recovering from the ankle. And he didn't run the 40 for his pro day either. So who knows what he would actually. run. The tape is great on him. He's got great hands. He's a he's a basketball player. He played basketball at SC his freshman year. And, you know, Garrett Wilson, by the way, was a phenomenal high school basketball player, had D1 offers from everybody. I think James and Williams did

as well. But anyway, I like Wilson and Williams more. I think they like Drake London more. The second thing I wanted to get to you before we get to Vinny is this report from Nikki Javala that Carson Wentz is, quote, viewed by the coaches as more than just a bridge player or even an experimental fix, closed quote. Look, if they believe that Carson Wentz, is much more than a bridge or an experimental fix or a hope or a wing and a prayer or a let's see

or an upgrade and he's got some talent but there's not a lot of long-term risk if it's just one year and it doesn't work out. But if they believed something other than that, then I think they would have already restructured his contract and not have worried about dead cap money in 2023 and 24 and saved money on this year's cap so they could have kept a player potentially like Eric Flowers or made it easier for themselves in the discussions that are going to be happening and probably already are happening with Terry McLaren and maybe would have given them more flexibility in free agency already where they've only signed two players outside of the players that they kept here. I just think that's a big

telltale as to how they really feel. Who knows? Maybe they'll restructure tomorrow. Maybe this will, by the way, if they do that, they should have done that right away. You know, on the other hand, you could look at it as, well, they gave up, you know, two-thirds, really potentially more likely than not a second and a third. And they swapped five spots back with Indy in the second round. And they picked up all of his salary. They better believe he's more than just a one-year answer.

I don't think that that's true. I think that there was some desperation. There was some panic there when, you know, the big plan A, a Wilson, as an example, a Russell Wilson, didn't pan out. And I didn't, I don't think they wanted to be, you know, on the dance floor without a partner. I don't think they wanted to be in the situation that Carolina is in now. So, you know, there's certainly a room for debate on what they think, but I think it's very telling that the structure of his contract is what it is now, which is exactly the way it was when they acquired him. And that allows them to bail after one season without any risk beyond 2022 if it doesn't work out. There could be reasons they're waiting to restructure.

You know, I'm not counting that out as a possibility. And remember, as you get into some of these days where he's out there with the team on these voluntary days and soon to be some mini-camp and OTA days after the draft, maybe they fall in love with him. And they realize, you know what, we got our guy. You know, it'd be hard to really come to that conclusion without a game being played in the regular season. but maybe they get to the point where they are really, really positive about him, and they decide to do that. I wouldn't count on that.

I personally would not count on the restructure. I just think it would have been more beneficial for it to happen already, and certainly it would have been more beneficial for them to have held out for at least Indy to pick up half of Wence's 2022 salary. and, you know, corresponding cap hit. All right, Vinnie Serrato, when we come back right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, with us is Vinny Serrato.

Vinny, of course, was the general manager, the head of football operations for a stretch that lasted the better part of a decade between 1999 through 2009. He's been co-hosting a radio show in Baltimore for a while. The Vinny and Bob Haney show is on every weekday, 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. on 105-7, The Fan in Baltimore. You can also, if you've already downloaded the Odyssey app to listen to Our Station 980, that app allows you to listen to Vinny and Bob Haney's show as well. Vinny, it's been a while. How are you?

I'm doing good. You know, busy, busy. You know, especially, you know, you're less than a week out from the draft. It's fun time now. You know, I was thinking about you and people like you. Do you miss not being on the other side of this. Do you miss the excitement of the draft and not being legitimately involved versus being a broadcaster and analyzing it from afar? Well, I still grade like 75 players, and I grade everybody that's the Ravens draft.

You know, so I still watch my film and still give reports on the radio and stuff. And I do, and I'm doing the draft show Thursday night from 8 to midnight, you know, and I evaluate every pick. So you miss the excitement of the draft. And then you miss the excitement of when the rookies come in for the rookie mini-camp to see what they look like that. That was the fun part. I do want to ask you, and we'll get to that shortly,

about some of your favorite picks and some of the picks that maybe you regret a little bit in hindsight. So you're really still into it. You're grading players. and obviously for the Ravens, you're grading the draft after it's done. How close are you following what's going on down here? I don't really, not at all, be totally honest. You know, we don't even talk about, you know, Washington on the radio here because, you know,

we talk Ravens, we talk Orioles, and we'll talk Caps, you know. that's, CAPS is the only, and then Bob likes the wizard, so we'll talk that, and then we're the home of Maryland Terps. So, you know, I mean, we have Damon, we just had Loxley on. So, I mean, we do a lot of Terps. I mean, we go down and broadcast from, we were on site before the Iowa game, you know, and then we all, me and Bob always go down for two days and stuff. So that's kind of it, but we do nothing with Washington football because there's not a lot of interest. Yeah, well, I can understand that.

You know, Vinnie, there's not as much interest down here as there used to be. You know that. I mean, you've seen the crowds. You've seen the crowds. You've seen, and I'm sure heard, you know, what the television ratings have been. But I am sure that you have weighed in on things like the Carson Wentz trade, because you guys talk a lot about the NFL. So what did you think about the Wentz trade?

You know, I mean, the thing with Wentz is, you know, he shows flashes. The problem I had with the trade was, you know, Indy, they didn't have to pay any of the salary or anything, and it's not like he's spectacular. I think they might have panicked a little bit too quickly to go, you know, if they had a way to maybe they don't have to give us as much as many draft picks, and maybe, you know, Indy pays part of that. Yeah, that's kind of been the reaction from some of us down here as well.

I mean, they were telegraphing essentially that they wanted to rid themselves of him. They would have had to release him. Now, Washington may not have been able to sign him had he been cut, so maybe trading something for him. But my first reaction was, it sounds like the same as yours. Like, if you're going to give up picks, you can't take the whole salary. Indie's going to have to eat half of that. But they gave up a second, a third, you know, it's going to eventually be a second rounder. There's two thirds to begin with, but it's a conditional third in 2023.

They move five spots back in the second round of this draft, and they ate 28.3 million of it. All of it. It's going to be interesting to see. It's going to be interesting to see Baker Mayfield, how much Cleveland has to eat, you know, because that'll be kind of interesting. I mean, because, you know, I mean, Carson Wentz, I mean, the owner didn't even want to to meet with him. I mean, the owner wanted him by-bye after the season, you know. Yeah, what do you make of him as a player, though? Like, the one thing I think some of us feel is that he is an upgrade over what they've had. You know, no disrespect to Taylor Heineke, but it's still

Vinnie, right, red flags all over him that Philly and Indy didn't want anything, didn't want to have anything to do with him after, you know, a year in Indy and just a few in Philly. To me, the biggest thing is inconsistent. That's the biggest thing. And, you know, I mean, he has good numbers. It's kind of like, he kind of reminds you of Kirk Cousins a little bit. You know, they have great numbers, but they don't win. You know, that's the biggest problem. And he's been hurt a lot. You know, I mean, he's been hurt a lot. You know, and the thing with Wentz is, I mean, you can make a case for him that, you know, he missed all that time in training camp and everything. But, you know, when they're playing Jacksonville and they're having. two games, you know, where they've got to win one to get into the playoffs. And, you know, the quarterback basically pees down his leg. I mean, that's not a ringing endorsement. All right. Let's talk about the draft. You know, you've been around a lot of drafts. And I'm just curious on your show and even to people that are in your life. How do you describe this draft overall?

Well, it's different because there's no outstanding quarterback. You know, I mean, last year, you know, we had Trevor Lawrence, so you kind of knew. And there's really not that surefire number one pick, although I think Hutchinson, you know, should be the first pick. But I think there's some good pass rushers. I think there's, you know, some good tackles and a few decent corners, a couple of safeties. defensive tackles, maybe one or two, but it's not a real good year for that. So I would guess, you know, I mean, people say it's a deep draft. We'll find out.

I mean, you don't really know for a couple years. But there's going to be half of these guys at first round or more, probably going to be bus. What do you think of the quarterbacks in this draft? Obviously, they've been, you know, completely dismissed as one of the worst class. We've seen in a while. What do you make of Willis, Pickett, Corral, Ritter, Hal, etc.? You know, the thing about it is with quarterbacks is, you know, because you need one, you kind of start to fall in love and you forget, you know, if you probably go by your first evaluation of the quarterback, it's probably the best one. But then, you know, if you really need

one, then you start, well, you know, I kind of like that. Or, you know, we could do this with him. You know, you kind of find reasons why you like him. And, you know, then you start to panic during the draft. And oh, man, we got to get this guy. You know, and then they all get overdrafted. You know, I mean, look at Christian Ponder and, you know, some of the, who was a kid from Washington that year? Oh, oh, yeah, Jake Locker. Locker. Locker. Yeah. Yeah, because I went out there. I spent three days out there, you know, looking at And I remember I'm at practice, you know, watching him. And, you know, Dan called me during practice.

He says, what do you think? I said, Dan, he's completing 50% in seven-on-seven, you know. And then he had an outstanding, you know, and I stayed for the game that Saturday, too. He had an outstanding game. You know, he looked like Steve Young in the game. But I don't think he ever loved football. That was the problem with him. And that's one of the biggest things is, you know, will they,

work? Are they passionate? Do they care? Do they love it? You know, are they willing, you know, kind of like Tibido. That's the problem with Tibido from Oregon. You know, you're worried about, you know, is he worried about, you know, always off the field stuff or does he want to work and be a great football player first? Hold on. I got to ask you about the locker thing. So that's 2011. It's so funny because I've referred to this draft a lot. That was the year that, you know, ponder and gabbert and locker it's like they went much higher than anybody was anticipating and none of them uh other worked out it cam newton was at the top of that draft obviously he worked out but in 2011 who were you scouting for because it wasn't for here oh 11 I was uh

locked no because I was out there uh and looked at locker and it was the year that um Because I remember talking to Shanahan about it, but Mike wasn't the coach yet then. Yeah, he was. Yeah, he was. He was the coach. 2010 was his first year as the coach. Well, I remember being out there with Mike. Mike wasn't a head coach yet when I was looking at Locker.

Okay. Maybe it was a couple of years earlier when you were looking at him before a draft year. Because he got picked in 2011, and that was Mike's second year. That was Bruce's second year. Well, Bruce, I'm sure. I promise you, Bruce never went out and looked at him. Well, can you also promise me that he didn't call you to ask you what you thought a locker? No, he never did.

You know, it was an interesting one was Mike and I, because my first year out, because Mike and I had been friends forever. Of course. We were together in San Fran, and Mike tried to hire me in Denver and stuff. So we had a bet because he asked me about, you know, they took the defensive, the kid from Purdue. Ryan Carrigan, yeah. Yeah, and he said, who would you take? I said, Mike, I love Cameron Haywood.

Hayward from, no, the Cal Kid. I said, Mike, I love the Cal Kid. He's smart. You know, his dad was the NFL. But, you know, both worked out. Cameron, Cam Jordan. Cam Jordan, yeah. Yeah, Cam Jordan.

That's who I, I said, Mike, I said, I like Cam Jordan, you know, and he took the other, which was fine. I mean, they were both good players. You know, the funny thing about that draft is, you know, how fans, for whatever reason, always want you to trade back and, you know, acquire more picks. And sometimes it makes sense. In that particular draft, Washington could have taken J.J. Watt. But they traded back with Jacksonville who wanted to trade up to get Gabbert, right?

Yeah, Gabbard, it was. And so Houston got Watt. Washington got Carragon. Kerrigan was a nice player, but he wasn't a JJ Watt. No. Yeah. So, you know, by the way, in talking about quarterbacks, and we're getting sidetracked here, which is fine, I know in my previous conversations, it happens all the time. And I enjoy this because, you know, in drafting quarterbacks, you know, you said they always get over drafted and it's tough.

You guys together, you and Dan drafted two quarterbacks. And actually, Joe obviously drafted, you know, Jason Campbell. But Jason Campbell. So Patrick Ramsey, how did that go down? And then how did the Campbell thing go down? See, I wasn't there with the Patrick Ramsey. That was Joe Mendy's, you know. And you know what's funny about that one was, you know, because that's when Joe was in charge, remember?

Joe Mendez, yeah, not Gibbs. Joe Mendes, yeah. Joe never told me. He didn't tell me about Patrick. I knew nothing about Patrick Ramsey. I didn't know they were taking them. you know, or anything. So I had no idea about that one.

What about? I had just gotten back. Right, because the year before was the Marty year. So you would just gotten back. I mean, the legend of the Patrick Ramsey pick was that that was all Dan. I think it was all Joe Mendez, you know, to be totally honest. I don't know because Joe hit it from me. Joe wouldn't, Joe never told me that one.

Nobody told me, you know, I didn't know until we took them. You know, that might have been Pepper's pick. That might have been Pepper's Pits. Well, Pepper Rogers had influence in those days, didn't he? Oh, yes, he did. Yes, he did. Yeah. And, yeah, Spurrier.

Yeah, that was interesting. Just a interesting times, you know? Interesting times, but you know how, and I don't want to spend a lot of time because I actually want your thoughts on some of the picks that Washington might make. But interesting times for sure, but that was, you know, Spurrier didn't seem to be thrilled with that pick. You obviously didn't know that it was being made. What did you think of the player?

Do you remember what you thought of Ramsey? I can't. To be totally honest, I can't. I don't recall. You know, I mean, Patrick was, you know, kind of like, I think somebody must have fallen in love is my guess. I don't know because he wasn't, you know, he wasn't, he didn't produce anything, you know, he didn't last long.

And yeah, I don't think once we started practice, I don't think Spurrier was, Spurrier loves Florida players, bottom line, you know. Now, I do have a good Sean Taylor one, you know, story. It was a good story because we were. probably a week out, and we hadn't decided because a lot of people wanted Kellyn Winslow, and a lot of people wanted Sean. And it was two Miami dudes. You know, it's interesting about that. You know how you can have the 30 visits and stuff? Yeah. So Kellan Winslow comes, Kellan comes to visit, and we had them up at the hotel, and Joe goes over because he was going to have breakfast with Kellan. You know,

because he was at the Chargers with his dad and stuff. You know, and, you know, Joe, Joe loved tied in. Right. So he goes over to have breakfast with Kellyn, knocks on the door, where he's supposed to meet him in the lobby. He calls, he says, Kellyn's not here. He goes up, knocks on the door, Kellyn doesn't answer. You know, then Kellan comes to the door like, oh, you know, like all groggy, you know.

So that was one strike. And then he comes over to the facility, and, like, we're looking. looking around. Where's killing? He was down in the locker room sleeping. It wasn't a great impression. So we're like a week out, and we're trying to figure out, you know, Winslow or Taylor. So Joe says, all right, let's get everybody in the room. I mean, we got the offensive coaches, the defensive coaches, everybody in the bill, all scouts, everybody. We're all in there, and we said, all right, let's get the national championship film. It was Miami, Ohio State. And actually me and Dan, me and Dan and went to that game.

So we put on Winslow first, and then we watch it, and he was outstanding. You know, so everybody kind of goes around a room, makes comments, and they said, all right, let's watch Sean. So we watch Sean, and even like, like, bugues and bro and all of, they said, you got to take Sean Taylor. The offensive coaches said, you got to take Sean. So then it was, you know, then it was kind of a done deal. Then how about Butch Davis? He was at Cleveland and they were picking right after us. He took Winslow.

And he tried to trade up with us because he wanted Sean. And he took Winslow. Yeah. Clinton Porthis has told me this story many times before. He said that he got wind that you guys were debating between Sean and Kellen Winslow. And being a Miami guy and being teammates with both. of those guys. He claims he went in to Joe's office and said, Joe, you've got to take Sean. And Joe said, well, we need offense. And Clinton's answer was, well, if you need offense,

then you need to draft Sean Taylor. That was his answer. Sean will create more offensive opportunities for you than Winslow would. So when was the final determination made? Was it a week before? Was it when Wednesday? It was right then. It was right when we watched, when we watched the film, it was over. You know, because we were big, big on, and Joe liked the fact that

I always had everybody involved, all the coaches, you know, and Joe loved that. He loved having everybody involved and everybody having an opinion. And then when we made, you know, when we decided, you know, it was done. You know, it was

Sean all the way. So that was pretty cool. I got another funny one, you know, like Chris Samuels. Remember when he was redoing his deal? Because I remember we were down in the senior bowl, met with Jimmy Sexton, Chris's agent, because Chris, we had to redo his deal, you know, and Jimmy Sexton was holding us hostage. So Dan's, me and Joe walk into Dan's room, and he was there with Scott Campbell, Lewis Reddick, Eric Schaefer, and all, and they're saying, you know, Dan says, do you guys want to extend you want to do this deal with Samuels? And they all said no.

So me and Joe walk in, they said, what do you guys want to do? I said, want to sign them. And Joe says, I want to sign them. Dan says, all right, you two want to sign them? All right, I'm going to sign them. So then me and Joe leave, go on to tell the coaches and call Chris. We're walking down the hall. And Joe grabs my army and says, you know, if Chris gets hurt,

we're going to have to jump off the cliff together. Well, why didn't the others want to sign them? because it was going to be a lot of money and he had been hurt, you know, but then after that he ended up being, what, three more? And you know what's so cool about Chris? And, you know, I mean, you know, Chris, such a great thing.

That he, this was like 11 o'clock at night. He came over that night and told all the coaches, he says, you won't regret this, you know, I'm going to work my butt. And, you know, he did. I mean, what, he was three times. Yeah. Pro Bowl was three more times after that. Real quickly, though, back to the

2004, Sean Taylor, So when you decided that you weren't going to take Winslow, but Gibbs still wanted a tight end, that's the draft where you guys traded back up into the third round because you didn't have a third round pick, and you picked my good friend Chris Cooley. Was the plan? Was Cooley the backup plan when you guys decided to pick Taylor over Winslow Jr? You know what? Really like Cooley. You know, like he wasn't the fastest, but the thing I liked about him was,

he had one step separation, you know, so he could get open. We loved Cooley, and I think we had like a second round great. And we didn't have a third round pick. So we basically bought the third round pick. Right. I think with like the next year's two, you know, because, yeah, we wanted a tight end, needed a tight, and we loved Cooley. You know, so, yeah, that was, that was, and Cooley ended up being, you know, Cooley's Cooley's Cooley. He's one of my favorite people.

So real quickly on Jason Campbell in 2005, you guys took Carlos Rogers. The 2005 draft obviously has been well documented because of Alex Smith going one and then, you know, Aaron Rogers not going until 24, which was the pick right before you guys. But when you traded back into the first round that year at 25 for Jason Campbell, I think it was for Jason Campbell. Somebody fell in love with him when you guys were down at Auburn, maybe working out Carlos Rogers. Give me 30 to 60 seconds on how, you know, you guys came to the conclusion that it made sense to trade back into the first round to take Jason Campbell. We went, we flew down. It was me, Joe, it was the whole offensive staff. We flew down actually in Joe's plane.

and we went down there specifically to see Jason Campbell, you know, so, and we, and those guys spent the day with him, you know, watching film and doing all that stuff, you know, because they want to check out intelligence and all those things. And, yeah, then they all, they, everybody, because I remember, we got off, we got off, we got off, and then Dan called, and, uh, all the coaches said, yeah, this is the guy we want. Did you have any idea that Aaron Rogers, you know, when you trade, I forget the, how the events unfolded. You traded back into the first round to take Jason Campbell clearly, and he was the pick

after Aaron Rogers. Just out of curiosity, if the Packers hadn't taken Rogers and he had been on the board one pick later with Campbell, who would you have taken? We never thought he would be. I mean, it was, it was going to be, we were, we were going to have a discussion. Let me say that. You know, there would have been a discussion at that time because we didn't, I mean, you know, everybody's watching them on TV.

You know, I mean, you kind of saw it. Yeah. And then, you know what happens? You know what happens in that? It's like, what's wrong with them? What's wrong with him? You know, why are people letting him go? You know, because then you're like, all right, you know, has he done something, you know,

background, blah, all that. You know, so, yeah, there would have been a discussion at that time. Did you like Jason Campbell? Yeah, yeah, Jason, Jason was, he was, he was good. You know, I mean, he was a big athletic kid, you know, and you know what? Was he great? No, played a league a long time, you know, and he was, he was not a franchise quarterback. Let's just say that.

So, you know, like Steve Boshadhi said the other day, he says, I don't think I'd like to be an owner if I didn't have a franchise quarterback. That would be miserable. And if you don't have one, you're in constant search until you find one. You know, and you've got to be because you can't win in the league without a quarterback. Yeah, so that allows me to now circle back to what started this conversation, which was asking you about the quarterbacks in this draft. do any of them have a big enough ceiling, even if their floor is super low and the bus potential

is high, but the upside is huge. Do any of them have that upside? Willis would be the guy that has the upside, you know, because he's an athlete and he's got a big arm, you know, but he just hasn't been accurate. You know, I mean, the guy only completed, what, 50-some percent, you know, so he's the, and I watched his pro day because it was on TV. I mean, he threw it. the heck out of the ball. You know, he did a real nice. I mean, he looked great in the pro day. So, to me, he has the biggest upside. If you're going to take a chance on one, that would be, that would be the guy. You know, I mean, everybody else, there's red flags, and you're making

excuses, you know, for something. You know, like with Pickett, he's got those little hands. You know, he struggled throwing a ball in the rain at the senior bowl. So, I mean, those are all the things, you know, you got to, you got to check out, you know, Ritter, a fifth-year guy. You know, I mean, they're just, you know, corral, all of them. I mean, there's a lot of red flags on all. There's not like, when Andrew Luck came out, it was like, I got to get that guy. You know, there's nobody trying to trade up for any of these guys, you know. Who's the best player in the draft?

The best player in the, I love, well, I think Aidan Hutchinson has, if I was picking number one, I take Aiden Hutchinson just because he has the least bus potential. I think no matter what happens, he's going to be a good football player, you know, because he's athletic. I mean, his times and stuff at the combine were off the charts, his three cone and his 10-yard time, all that stuff. And then if you watch him play, you know, he played big and big games and the effort that he plays with, two-time captain, you know, I mean, he checks every box. He doesn't have. The only red flag that I see on the guy, his arms are a little short.

Other than that, you know, there isn't any. Who's the player in the first round as you've been evaluating players that you think is going to get picked too high? Trayvon Walker. Why? I just think, well, you know, I mean, he blew up the combine. He ran 4-5, he 6-5-2-70, you know, and everybody, here's what happens a lot with coaches is, is they fall in love. And what happens with coaches is, what they'll do is they'll say,

I can get him to do it. I mean, that's a typical coach. I can get him. I can make it work. I can fix him, you know. And that's typical. That's a lot of coach speak. That's what they do.

You know, and Trayvon Walker is a great athlete and all that. But, I mean, when you watch him on film, you know, do you play him inside? Do you play him outside? You know, when you're picking in the top five, it shouldn't be, should we do this or should we do that? It should be like plug play. We know what he is. You know, that's why, like, Aquano, I love Aquano too.

You know, I mean, to me there's three really good tackles, Evan Neal Aquano and Charles Cross. I think those three are outstanding players. And Aidan Hutchinson, I like. But all the other rushers, you know, you can find something interesting about them, you know, whether it be Tibado and is off the field. But, I mean, is Tibado a good player? Oh, yeah. I mean, he's got the best first-step quickness of anybody.

You know, I like him a lot, but I'm concerned about him. You know, I just think that there's going to be problems eventually, you know, and Jermaine Johnson from Florida State, he's transferred from Georgia, you know, and he's an outstanding rusher, you know, but, you know, he had to, he's one year, but he's going to go, you know, so there's concerns there. Now, you know, the Notre Dame kid, the Hamilton, the safety, you know, I think he's an outstanding player. He didn't run well, but he plays fast.

You know, he plays fast. That's the thing. You know, like when you looked at Sean Taylor, you know, Sean was big, fast, and I mean, you watched the, it was the Florida State game. He had two interceptions in that game in the rain and run one back for a, I mean, he was, there's nobody, you know, when you watch film, there's nobody. that's impacted games like Sean did when you watch film compared to other safeties.

I was going to ask you about Kyle Hamilton because he's a guy that's been mocked to Washington at 11 over and over again. And, you know, the time, the 459 in Indy and then the 4-7 or whatever it was on his pro day seemed to have people scared off. I mean, when you watched Notre Dame last year and I know you watch Notre Dame, there never seemed to be an issue with speed. He plays fast and he anticipates well. Do you think if he's there at 11, Washington should take him?

Yeah, I don't think that would be a bad pick at all. Because the thing that you've got to remember, Kevin, is functional, functional speed. You know, does he get beat, you know, because of speed? Can you see lack of speed, you know, on the film? Like Jerry Rice ran 4-6 something at the complex. Yeah, right. Jerry's, functionally, Jerry's extremely fast. You know, nobody ever caught him.

You know, I mean, that's the thing. And that's, you know, like Devin Lloyd, same thing. You know, he didn't even run. Like he said, watch the film. And if you watch the film, he plays fast. And, you know, that's the thing with Kyle Hamilton is, you know, his instincts, his awareness, all those things. And he's six four.

The only thing scares me, Kevin, about Kyle Hamilton is, you know, he's six four. 220, and he's not a big weight room guy. Now, when they get into the weight room, does he get up to 230 and stuff? And then what happens? Well, then I guess you end up playing them in the box a lot more. Yeah, but in today's football, you know, you don't need box guys. You know, it's a spread out, it's a seven-on-seven game. You know, you need, in today's football, I mean, you look at the AFC West. Look at what happened there, you know, when Russell Wilson went, you know, and all of a sudden, you got the quarterbacks in that division? What did everybody do? They went and got two pass rushers, you know, each. Yeah, that's interesting. I didn't know about Hamilton. I have a feeling

a lot of people listening didn't know about Hamilton and that he's not a big weight room guy. So I asked you about the guy that'll get taken too high. You've discussed Hamilton, which is one of the players I was going to ask you about. Other than Hamilton, who's a player that you think is going to be overlooked a bit too much and taken too low? Does anybody kind of jump to mind? Yeah, the guy that I really like is Daxton Hill from Michigan, the safety. Athletic, yeah. Because he ran 4-3-6. Yeah.

And if you watch the Ohio State game, he played in the slot the whole time. So, I mean, he's got some corner characteristics. You know, and he's a great blitzer. he can do a lot of things defensively to help you. And, you know, he's, what, six one, but he runs four, three, six. And like I said, he can backpedal.

He can do all those things. He's got ball skills. But, I mean, his burst, and he'll tackle. You know, so he's a weapon as a defensive player because you talk about a guy you want to move around and, you know, take advantage of what he can do. That's what he can do. All right.

Awesome. Awesome. Tell me how you have the receivers rated because a lot of people believe that if Kyle Hamilton isn't there at 11, Washington will likely go receiver. Yeah, well, you know, like I've always been, like my Niners days, you know, we never would take a receiver under six foot tall. I mean, that was Bill Walsh saying, you know, we didn't, our scouts didn't even have to look at them if they were under six foot. You know, I love, because of that, Devin Lloyd, I love Devin Lloyd. And the reason I love Devin Lloyd, I mean, there's a bunch of them I love. But Devin Lloyd, just because of his yak, you know, I mean, his yards after the catch is phenomenal and his catching range is great.

But how about Kevin Ohio State? You're not, you're not, you don't mean Devin Lloyd. Are you talking about Drake London? Oh, yeah, yeah. Excuse me. I was looking at my linebacker. Yeah, that's all right. Drake London.

Okay. Because of the size. Yeah, Drake London. So he's your number one. I love the size. Yeah. Yeah. And then Kevin, how about Jameson Williams? Yeah.

Alave and Wilson, they were all on the same team together. Yeah. Yeah, it's great. He was in Ohio State for two years. He had to transfer. He had to transfer. Yeah, and he gets 1,500 yards. You know, and let me just say, Wilson's great.

I thought Alave was the most explosive guy off the ball. I thought his 10-yard, his, you know, if I'm a corner, I'm like, I got to pedal fast. You know, I got to bail quit because this guy is so explosive off the ball. That's what I liked about him. You know, I mean, I like all those guys. The only problem with Williams is you're not going to have them right away. Right. Would that bother you?

Well, if I'm, you know, if I'm a coach on the hot seat, Yeah, it would bother me because I need instant gratification, you know. Now, if I had two picks, then that probably wouldn't bother me. You know, but if I'm just having one and picking at 11 and I don't get the guy until later, and I would probably go another direction. Do you think Ron's on the hot seat? No. No.

I think they've got stability, you know. So I think Ron's doing a nice job, you know. So I don't, I, with all the stuff that's going on there, you need stability in the football. Yeah, that's for sure. Who is Drake London's pro-comp? Pro-com. I would say like A.J. Brown or like Evans in Tampa.

Yeah, Mike Evans. I think those kind of guys, you know, I mean, when you watch him on field, him. I mean, he's fun to watch. And he's so competitive with the ball in his hand. You know, I mean, that's the thing. Because you got McLaren, you already got you like your speed guy, you know. And I wouldn't say that London's possession guy, but he's a guy that he can take a hitchh route and go the distance. You know, and he's going to make a guy miss. And that. So if the, I want to say the Redskins, Washington takes London, yeah, if Washington takes London, I think it's a hell of a pick. I think it's a hell of a pick.

You know, I mean, I don't think they can go wrong with the Lave with, you know, Wilson, but I think they have the speed guy. That's why I think, like, you know, London would be a perfect compliment for them. And for Wrench, you know, you give them bigger target. Yeah, people have mentioned that. And it's one of the things, you know, in talking to some people, I've got a sense that they really have London high up on their board. And one of the reasons, Vinny,

is that Wentz has been better at throwing it to bigger receivers, whether it was Pittman Jr., who, by the way, you know, is a USC guy who's 6-4-220, like London, or, you know, Jeffrey, Alshan Jeffrey, when he was in Philly, you know, the tight ends, obviously he's preferred bigger catch radius guys. I remember, I said to somebody earlier this week,

don't most quarterbacks prefer big catch radius guys? but somebody told me, of course they do, but it's harder to throw to smaller guys. So that's why they like London, but I'm curious, like Berks is a big guy, the kid out of Arkansas. Why is he fallen so much? I mean, he had big games against big teams, including Alabama. Yeah, no, well, I think the reason is all the other guys. You know, I mean, I think seven guys can get drafted in the first round. Yeah.

You know, and I like Christian Watson out of North Dakota State. I mean, that's a dude that's 6-4 that runs 4-3-9. Right. You know? And I think he's got a chance to go maybe to Green Bay or something. So although it's kind of like what fits you because there's the big guys, there's a small fast guy. You know, so there's a lot of different avenues that you can go, and they're all outstanding players. Yeah, there are a lot of receivers.

I mean, we were talking about this. the other day. The Vegas odds are five and a half on receivers taken in the first round, and I think, you know, I think it goes over five and a half. What are your expectations for Washington next year? I know you said that you're not paying a lot of attention to it, but you know enough about the league and about the division. Do you, what are your expectations for them next year in the NFC East? Well, to me, the first thing you look at is quarterback. And Dallas has the best quarterback in a division. and then after that, it's kind of a toss-up. You know, so if that's the case, then anybody can win it.

You know, it just depends on the quarterback play. Dallas probably has the most talent, you know, and Philly's going to add a couple nice pieces, you know, when they pick also. And for them, it's just how does Hertz play? You know, because they're trying to figure out if he's the guy. Right. You know, and Daniel, the Giants, we had the Giants beat righter on, yesterday on the show.

And, I mean, they're in Cap Hell. Their first round pick from last year, they want to trade him. So, I mean, they're not going to be good. So, you know, in Dallas, who knows what Dallas? I mean, should Dallas win it? Yeah, Dallas

should win it. Can't will Dallas win it? Not yet to be determined. Yeah, I mean, I read about the Giants looking to unload Cadarius Tony. I mean, I thought he had some Sean Jackson in him and some Tariq Hill in him the way he played in Florida, but obviously

there's something wrong there with him. By the way... He doesn't like to work, supposedly. Right. So, just out of curiosity, Daniel Jones, Jalen Hertz, do you think either one of them ends up being a long-term answer for either team?

Nope. No. I think Hertz probably has a better chance. I mean, with Daniel Jones, you know, somebody asked me, what do you think? I said, well, it's going on as fifth year, so that should answer the question. You're still asking the same question after five years, you know, after four years going into fifth year, is he the guy? You know, I mean, with all these other guys, if you don't know by year two, you know, like, we're going to find out this year a lot about

Trevor Lawrence, about Zach Wilson, you know, a lot about a lot of those guys. Yeah, we are. Next year, just out of curiosity, C.J. Stroud or Bryce Young, if you're, if you're number one and on the clock right now. Who's the quarterback you would take? The only thing with Stroud, no, the Alabama kid, you're like 5'9. Young is, is the, Bryce Young's the Alabama kid. Yeah, young. Yeah, he's tiny. What do you mean? He's not 5-9, Vinny. One of my buddies who was coaching down there said he was, yeah, he's like 5-9, 5-10. He's not that tall. He's got to. He's got. a high release, which helps him on a lot, and he's been super productive, you know. So you like Stroud?

So, well, just watching them on film, I like them both, you know, just watching them play. You know, and, you know, you got to do your homework on both, but they're both more productive and done a lot more than the guys in this year's draft. All right, I've kept you long enough, but I've got a couple of questions just to finish up with. The pick that you made anywhere that you had the most to do with that you're the most proud of? I would probably, Chris Samuels. Okay. That's an easy one.

That was your first draft here when it was LeVar at two overall and Chris Samuels at three overall. Yeah, you know what's funny about that one too was I remember like, because, you know, it was kind of floated out there about Chris Samuels and like people on the, you know, we were getting crucified at the time because they're like, who's Chris Samuel? So I called Jimmy sex and I said, Jimmy. I said, I need your help, man. I said, if you want us to take your guy, I said, get him on the radio, get him, get him some PR up there in Washington so people know who this kid is. So when we do take him, it makes it a lot easier. He said, all right, you know, and then I remember Doc Walker, you know, I mean, Doc's a former old line, you know, type guy,

you know, so, and then I remember Chris did some more stuff and then, and then, you know, once we ended up making a pick. They were like, yeah, that is a good pick. You know, they knew who he was. And then, you know what? Cooley would be another one. And then, um, I tell you, one that, how about Chris Horton? You know, he was a, what? Seventh round pick. Sixth round or seventh round? Seventh round pick that started, started at safety. You know, and he wasn't the fastest guy in the world, but he was so, so smart and so instinctive. And that's why he's one of the best special teams coaches in the league right now in Baltimore. That was not your best draft, the 2008 draft.

No, but Chris Horton was a good player. What about the pick that you regret the most? Malcolm Kelly. And just because Bubba tired, Bubba said, you know, I mean, he was a four medical. And Bubba said he's going to, everything Bubba said turned out. But, you know, there was just, that was just, that happened, you know. You know, that was, it just, it was, it was a long story. It was a long story.

Is it one worth telling or should we say that for next time? No. So I just had a curiosity in the 2000 draft. I don't know the answer to this, but why you had picks two and three, did it make a difference other than slotting for salary, whether you took Errington first or Samuels first, was it just easier because Errington was such an obvious, you know, top, you know, two or three pick that you went with him at two overall.

Yeah, and I think the biggest thing was LeVar cared about it. Chris didn't. Gotcha. And Jimmy Sexton, it didn't matter to Jimmy where it mattered to the Poston. Give me the... Read into that how you want to. I think most adults can do that. The pick that you absolutely were convinced that you had right,

but it just didn't work out, other than Malcolm Kelly because of the injury, a player that you were 100% convinced you had gotten right, and it just never worked out when he got it to his career. It's all right if nothing comes to mind. Yeah, nothing comes to me. You know what, another good one that we had was, you know, like Derek Dockery, you know, who we took in the third.

Yeah, from Texas. You know, yeah, we had a high grade on him. And I remember sitting in the draft room and like his, we had a high grade. So his cards stood out like a sore thumb because all the other cards around him were gone. And Dan actually said, well, if you believe in your board, you know, that's the guy you got to take. You know, and that one turned, and he ended up being a good player in a league too for a third round. What about Leroux? What about Landry? And right before Adrian Peterson was picked, by the way, you can say that about a lot of teams. You know, the teams overlook future Hall of Famers. It happens in every draft. But why Landry in that draft? Yeah, I think, well, he ran 4-3 also. So, you know, Greg said that he would be able to do a lot with both. You know, that was a thing. So it was a guy that, you know, his speed and explosiveness and, you know, and he had good ball skills and everything.

I mean, he was just, to me, talent-wise, he was so much better than everybody else. You know, he just ended up loving the wait room, man. He got so big. Yeah, he was, my God, he was cut. Didn't always translate on the field, but he was in shape, that's for sure. Vinny, I appreciate it.

I really do. It's good to catch up. You can listen to Vinny with Bob Haney, 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. weekdays on 1057, the fan in Baltimore. You can also listen to his show on the Odyssey app. This is his favorite time of year. I know that. I appreciate it. Hope you're well.

Let's do it again soon. All right, Calvin. Appreciate it, man. Vinnie Serato, everybody. Good stories in there, mixed with some thoughts on the upcoming NFL draft. Now, for those of you wondering, hey, Sheehan, why didn't you ask him about everything that's been going on in the organization? Well, I kind of respected his wishes to not discuss any of that. That was his preference. And from my standpoint, it was great to have Vinny on, to have him tell stories about being there for a lot of those big drafts and big personnel decisions.

And there were some great stories. And he's told some really good stories in the past as well. And, you know, with respect to the draft, this is his time of year. We have a lot of guys on to talk about the draft and have had them on, both radio and podcast, and people with far less in terms of a resume of being paid to do it than Vinnie Serrados. So this is his time of year. He's been watching the tape, and it was good to get his thoughts on some of the players that Washington will be looking at at 11. So anyway, that's that.

Up next, up next, the end. NFL schedule will be out on May 12th, but the NFL is starting to release details about its schedule. And yesterday, they released some information about some of next year's holiday games. More on that, right after these words, from a few of our sponsors. So the NFL is going to release its schedule, full schedule in its entirety on May 12th, Thursday night, May 12th, two weeks after the first round. of the NFL draft, which is this coming Thursday. I think this is the second straight year.

The NFL is releasing its NFL schedule after the draft. They used to do it before the draft. That was the tradition for many years. And I think it kind of feels like this is going to be the new way of doing it. But between now and May 12th, the NFL is promising to release bits and pieces of either news related to the schedule or some games themselves. Well, yesterday, the league announced that for the first time in league history, the NFL will have a triple header on Sunday Christmas Day of 2022. It's a Sunday this year, Christmas.

So they've had doubleheaders in the past, including last year when they had Cleveland and Green Bay in the afternoon, followed by Indian Arizona, with Christmas being on a Saturday. They've had double headers on Christmas Day before when Christmas Day has fallen on a afternoon. a weekend day. The only time postseason games were played on Christmas Day, you've got to go back to 1971, and it was a famous playoff game. The Cowboys

and Vikings kicked that day off, but the Dolphins and the Chiefs played the longest game, still to this day, in NFL history on Christmas afternoon and night, 1971, Garrow Eupremian, finally coming through

late in the second overtime to be Kansas City 27 to 24. four that year. Now it's just week 16 of the regular season. There are still two more full weekends of football to go after Christmas weekend with the 17 games schedule. So the league announced it will have a triple header. There will be afternoon games on CBS and on Fox, I believe, and then NBC will get a Christmas night game. The NBA has kind of owned Christmas Day, but the NFL's gone head to head with the NBA. with at least a game and sometimes two over the years at times

and done very well, obviously, opposite the NBA. Three games takes up almost every single NBA window with NBA games being shorter than NFL games. So this year, the NFL truly going head to head with the NBA on Christmas Day. Sorry, NBA, you're going to lose that big time. The NFL still on that weekend will have a Thursday night game, and then the bulk of week 16 games will be played on Saturday, Christmas Eve, and then there will be a Monday night game that week as well.

Now, between now and the schedule release on May 12th, I think we're going to get news with respect to Thanksgiving Day games and potentially some of the international games. will probably learn something about between now and the actual release of the schedule on May 12th. And I will have annual tradition, unlike any other, I will have my mock schedule. Now that they're going to release some of these games in advance, I'm probably going to have to get it done and out this week or next week at the latest, the week following the NFL draft at the latest.

Washington's never played on Christmas Day. They've played on Thanksgiving a ton. They've never played on Christmas Day. They've had a lot of games on Christmas Eve as part of the regular NFL schedule. But they've never played on Christmas Day. Obviously, the odds with a triple header on Christmas Day make it, you know, maybe more likely. You know, I would expect that, you know, the NFL is trying to give some of these teams that have had these highlight spots on holidays.

Now, Washington has had a lot of the Thanksgiving Day games over the years with the Cowboys. And they had one, you know, at home against the Giants back in 2017. But just so you know, Christmas Day is a possibility. And Christmas Eve is actually a probability for Washington this year in the NFL schedule. Okay, that's it for the show. I'll be back on Monday. Thank you.