The Kevin Sheehan Show - "We Are Counting Votes"

Episode Date: May 23, 2022

Kevin today on the Jarrett Bell/USA Today story that NFL owners are "counting votes" to see if there are enough to oust Dan Snyder. Kevin also with some information on how excited/optimistic the Commanders are about its 2022 offense. Ben Standig/The Athletic joined the show to talk Commanders OTAs and more. Neil In Rockville weighed in on the USA Today story as well.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. We are counting votes. That was a direct quote from an NFL owner to Jared Bell, a columnist for USA Today, for his column, which dropped Saturday afternoon, a column titled, Daniel Snyder's issues force other NFL owners to mull drastic options. The we are counting votes quote from an NFL owner referring to,

do we have enough votes, 24 of them, three quarters of the owners, 75% to vote Dan Snyder out? I will get to this column in a little bit written by Jarrett Bell that raised a lot of eyebrows that created a lot of response, some of which was, eh, nothing new here. I disagree with that. And I'll get to that here momentarily. Andings on the show today. Neil and Rockville is on the show today. I wanted to start real quickly with this tweet from Lindy.

Lindy tweeted me and said, Kevin, you never compared your mock schedule to the actual schedule. Also, what is the game you're most interested in? I think I did compare the mock schedule to the real schedule. Did I miss doing that on the podcast? I know I did that on the radio show, and I apologize for occasionally losing track of what I did on the radio show and what I did on the podcast. Very often the two shows are totally different. If you didn't know that, for those of you that listen to both, you know that very often the shows

are very different, guest-wise and otherwise. But on the mock schedule thing, that would have been something that I would have done on radio and on the podcast. But if I didn't do it on the podcast, let me be brief. I didn't get any right. I didn't get anything right, but that is not unusual. My mock schedule is not really out there for the purposes of getting as many as I can right, even though I attempt to get some right, you know, but how the hell do I know what the schedule makers are thinking? I love doing it because I used to do this long before I did it on radio. As a fan of the team, I would always try to figure out, all right, these are the teams,

we know who they're playing, and I would always do it really with kind of the nerdy purpose of trying to put Washington against Dallas. on Thanksgiving Day or Washington against Dallas on Monday night football. But whatever. I got none right. I think the win that I had is that I had them playing Chicago on Thursday night football. I didn't have the right date. I had them playing Chicago on Thursday night football in December, but they are playing Chicago on Thursday night in October. So I count that as a win. I think I had the Atlanta and Houston games back to back in November, just not on the exact dates. Other than that, I didn't really, I wasn't really close to anything.

I had them closing at home because they had closed on the road three straight years. I had them opening on the road because they had been at home the last two years, but they're opening at home. And by the way, that's the perfect segue into the game that I find most interesting on the schedule. I think the opener is the most interesting game. not for the storylines of Carson Wentz against the team that beat him last year in the season finale or Doug Peterson coaching against his former quarterback or Brandon Sheriff,

but just the fact that there is pressure on Washington to win this game. You know, this is a doom and gloom scenario if they lose the opener to Jacksonville. They open up with the two worst teams in the league from the year before. they've been given the easiest possible opening two games and opener based on last year's records, which, as I've said before, don't amount to much. But these are the two teams that were the worst in the NFL, and they're not expected to be great. I think Detroit's supposed to be improved. But the Jacksonville game in particular, at home in the opener, creates some pressure on the new quarterback

to face the team that basically eliminated his team last year, the postseason on Ron Rivera, who has raised the bar on this all-important third season. I think there's some pressure. Now, somebody emailed me or tweeted me last week. Do you think it would be better if they opened up against Green Bay? On some level, I do. But I also realize how important it is for this team to get off to a fast start from a business standpoint.

So opening against a team that they'll be favored against, they're only a three-and-a-half-point favorite. But opening against Jacksonville gives them material. chance to win the opener and get off to a fast start, 1 and 0, then Detroit and Week 2, maybe a 2 and start. But it also creates that pressure. And the doom and gloom scenario isn't just for the negative nancy's in the fan base. It's for those who have been lecturing the negative nancy's. Hopefully you're not paying attention or you don't even know what I'm talking about. But there is, you know, a bunch of stuff that's been showing up in my timeline on Twitter. And I've had people send me some

of the tweets from the what I'll refer to as the get on board or get out faction, very small faction of the fans. It's, you know, the people that say if you don't like the commander's name or you don't like Carson Wentz or you didn't like the trade or you don't like Jason Wright or Ron Rivera, get out, you know, move to another city route for another team. Actually, these posers, they're they are so spineless. They'll be the first. first to jump if they lose to Jacksonville. So, you know, it reminds me, actually, of, in 2010, when they hired Mike Shanahan, I was a big fan of that hire, as many of you know.

I mean, I've been called Kevin Shahanahan before and referred to as, you know, Mike's biggest sycophant in the market. But I was a great believer in Mike Shanahan. And I still believed back in 2010 that there was a chance that a great coach could overcome a terrible owner. I was also in favor of Bruce Allen being hired because it was just an upgrade over where they were for those first 10 years. But I specifically remember, I think it was in 2010. It could have been early in 2011, but I think it was 2010 because they got off to a fast start in 2011. They had lost a couple of games in a row.

And I was hearing from, you know, the anti-Shanahan crowd. There was already an anti-Shannahan crowd growing. He's never won anything since Elway retired. He hired his son. His son doesn't know anything. They've got a terrible offensive coordinator. It's nepotism. He just took the money, yada, yada, yada.

And I remember doing a show with Tommy and saying, look, if the waters are too choppy and you're too fearful of this thing and you don't have the stomach for it, you know, opt out for now. go antiquing with your wife go to a yard sale an estate sale with your girlfriend and pick out some nice lampshades or some nice prints to put on a wall in your apartment i'll tell you when it's safe to come back in so on some level there is some hypocrisy on my part for um laying into the uh the lecturers of today but but they are a little bit overly chesty with the you know get out you can't come back in if you're not on board now. Well, that's bullshit. Okay, because for those of you that are out right now

or less passionate or are skeptical, justifiably so, are reasonable, somewhat objective, and aren't buying in to every single thing that they've done in this offseason, you can jump back in from my perspective whenever you want. You have paid your dues over the last two decades. Anyway, after all we've endured together over the last two decades, I'm not going to be the one to lecture about, you know, how, why, when and where you can be a fan. I did that 12 years ago. I'm not going to do that anymore. You know, also I would add, it's different now. I get it. You know, there's a, this layer of complexity of new name, new brand that has really cut the ties of that emotional part of you. that couldn't let go, no matter how bad it got. It's easier to let go now. I get it.

Two things before we get to Ben Standing. And the second one is the Jarrett Bell story, which I will spend a couple of minutes on. But I just wanted to mention real quickly that I had a conversation with someone on Friday, someone in the know, who said, quote, they think they have a 12 to 13 win offense, closed quote. A 12 to 13 win offense. So there were other things told to me, which I will share with you in podcasts later this week and next.

I think the quote, they think they have a 12 to 13 win offense deserves right now. Top priority in terms of discussion, at least a few minutes here. Do I think they have a 12 to 13 win offense? Well, that implies an elite offense. Do I think it's Green Bayes or Kansas cities or more? Buffaloes or Tampa's or the Chargers or the Cowboys offense? No, I don't put it in that, you know, realm. If Carson Wentz is what Carson Wentz was last year in Indianapolis, do I think it's going to be a much improved offense? Yeah, I do. Because I do believe in the supporting cast.

I've already talked about this. I believe in their supporting cast, and the supporting cast they put around the quarterback, they've got a decent offensive line. and they have a boatload of playmakers. Santana Moss was on the podcast Friday and said, the biggest challenge will be there's only one football. There aren't enough balls to go around because they got a lot of weapons. They have Terry McClureen, they have Curtis Samuel, they have Jahan Dotson, they have Diami Brown.

Let me emphasize Diami Brown because I was told they like him. I was told that last year before the draft, after the draft, during training camp, even during the season, that with, you know, a year under his belt and a better quarterback, they believe Diami Brown is a number two wide receiver in this league. They love McKissick, he's back, Logan Thomas. I mean, Ron Rivera told me at one point last year, that was the biggest loss, bigger loss than even Curtis Samuel, because they knew what they were losing in Logan Thomas. The back situation, I think it's obvious. They drafted Brian Robinson, Jr.,

because they don't completely believe in Antonio Gibson. They're not moving Antonio Gibson to wide receiver. They just drafted a receiver at 16 overall. They've got Curtis Samuel coming back. They've got, you know, they've got plenty of receivers now. I haven't even mentioned Cam Sims. They're excited about their team offensively. And you know what?

If Carson Wentz turns out to be Carson Wentz of 2017 or even Carson Wentz of Indianapolis in 2021, they will be a much improved offense. Will they be in elite offense? No, I don't see that. But I see them being at their best, which means Carson Wentz playing at his best, a really good offense next year.

All right, last thing I wanted to get to before we get to Ben Standing is the story that Jared Bell wrote from USA Today on Saturday. A story titled Daniel Snyder's issues force other NFL owners to mull drastic operations. The subheading of the story reads as follows.

As Washington Commander's owner Daniel Snyder is under investigation for financial improprieties, some NFL owners are frustrated and may support an ouster forcing Snyder to sell his franchise. Let me read from the story because it includes quotes from four different owners, and I know many of you have seen some of these quotes, but maybe not all of them, because USA Today is a subscriber paywall newspaper now. Jarrett Bell starts off by writing, Daniel Snyder isn't officially on the agenda for NFL meetings this week. The NFL is conducting meetings this week in Atlanta, starting today.

He writes, unofficially, the controversial Washington commander's owner under investigation from the Federal Trade Commission and the Virginia Attorney General, after allegations of financial improprieties were revealed in a congressional committee probe, is very much on the minds of some fellow NFL owners who would go as far as trying to force Snyder from their ranks. This is the first quote from one of four owners quoted in this Jarrett Bell story. Quote, there's growing frustration about the Washington situation and not overweigh, one issue but over how much smoke there is. I think everybody's getting tired of it. That was the first quote from four different owners on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the matter. Jarrett Bell continues. Snyder has denied any wronggoing in the latest controversy. He won't be at the

owners meetings that begin today in Atlanta and last year relinquished day-to-day control of his franchise to his wife Tanya after some details of a toxic workplace culture that included sexual harassment were exposed. One of the stunning allegations that surfaced in early April maintain that Snyder's franchise used two sets of accounting systems conceivably to shield money from other NFL owners with whom Snyder is connected as part of a league-wide revenue sharing. This from a second owner in Jarrett Bell's story quoted. If that happened, I think that's the nail in the coffin, closed quote. Jarrett Bell continues.

It's unclear exactly how many team owners would push for action against Snyder. A third team owner responded to an interview request by indicating that he would wait until the pending investigations were resolved. Several other owners, Jared Bell wrote, didn't respond or declined interview requests. And then we get to this fourth team owner, speaking also under the condition of anonymity. Referring to the latest allegations, he said that anti-Snyder movement is significant, and this started before the latest allegations surfaced. Quote, we are counting votes, closed quote. Um, this is the part that I think is new.

Uh, I also think just the fact that owners are quoted in this story is unique, uh, in this, you know, two year, uh, nearly two year run of, of stories about Dan Snyder in this organization. Because most of it's been allegations and then, you know, testimony in front of, uh, an investigator like Beth Wilkinson or in front of Congress. And, you know, Beth Wilkinson, you know, came to the conclusion, according to reports that Snyder should be forced to sell. And then Goodell took that advice and fined the organization $10 million. And, you know, supposedly, although I'll get to that in a moment,

told Dan you've got to step aside and put Tanya in charge of the day-to-day activities. Well, that was never complied with. by the owner, as we know, and the owner disputes that that was ever the case anyway, saying he wasn't suspended and he wasn't fine the organization was. Jared Bell, after the fourth owner, said that there's been anti-Snyder movement that's been significant, and this has been the case even before the latest allegations surfaced. We are counting votes. Jared Bell wrote, by counting votes, the message is,

is clear. Some would support an Alster forcing Snyder to sell his franchise for what would likely be a record amount. It would take 24 votes, three-fourths of the NFL's ownership, to pass a measure to Al-Snyder from the club. For the first

time, there's been chatter. That was from the second owner quoted in this story. We should really think about doing something if they find something there. Bell continues, the momentum building with in the NFL ownership ranks underscoring disgust with Snyder comes against the backdrop of

criticism that suggests NFL owners are not fully policed by Goodell for various transgressions in the same manner in which he drops the hammer on players. Snyder's series of episodes not only cast Goodell in a negative light as he inexplicably didn't demand a detailed report a la deflategate but settled for an oral report. from Beth Wilkinson. According to two owners, the lack of a written report that would have ensured better transparency was one of the concerns vehemently raised by owners to Goodell during the meetings in March. We don't know what's going on in Washington, one of the owners said.

There's a lot of frustration with that. My instincts are that there will be a harder push for more information. Closed quote. At the very least, Bell writes, the first owner contended, Snyder should have received much harsher discipline from Goodell after the NFL investigation in 2021 confirmed a toxic workplace for more than a decade. So the owners, or at least the ones interviewed by Jared Bell, and even quoted by Jared Bell, think the commissioner failed by not punishing Snyder more severely.

I completely agree with that. This is something we talked about from the jump. they should have welcomed a more severe punishment, something that was publicized as a major fine and a major suspension. A lot of people in that moment would have accepted that the league took this seriously and punished Snyder. But Snyder, being the narcissist that he is, he had his lawyers calling people like Tommy saying, Dan wasn't fined, the organization was, as if to say this wasn't Dan's fault. This was everybody else's fault. And oh, by the way, Dan was not suspended.

Don't write that. Another quote from another owner. There's a feeling a sense of disappointment amongst the owners. There's a feeling, excuse me, a sense of disappointment amongst the owners that I talk to. I don't talk to them all, but owners who come to the meetings and are active, that he wasn't suspended. Disappointment that Roger did not act stronger. So again, more on... Goodell not making the punishment more severe.

Then there is this, after Jared Bell describes, you know, recent ownership ousters, whether it was De Bartolo or Sterling or Jerry Richardson, who sold the team after being kind of pressured into it, but he was also older. He writes, perhaps Snyder could be similarly motivated by money and voluntarily sell out of the NFL. Snyder was the lead partner in a franchise that sold for a then record $800 million in 1999. Now the team is rated the fifth most valuable in the NFL according to Forbes with the valuation in 2021 at $4.2 billion. With the Denver Broncos currently on the market and expected to fetch at least $4.5 billion. And remember, I'll add parenthetically, we read last week that it might be

$5 billion plus. Jared Bell writes, an industry analyst suggested that the sale price for Washington would be staggering in excess of $6 billion. Yeah, I mean, some of you that have pushed back when I've mentioned that it would sell for over $5 billion and said, no way, you've been wrong on this. There isn't enough supply and there's overwhelming demand and the market is lucrative. And that leads me to this, the final few quotes of this story. This is from one of the owners after Jared Bell wrote, part of the argument in the anti-Snyder camp among NFL owners is that the once proud signature NFL franchise

has become a national embarrassment while existing in one of the league's most desirable markets. A quote from one of the owners. I don't know if he did these things they're alleging now, but I do know that no one in that market likes the guy. Another owner, quote, there are some owners who believe the league will be better off with a different owner in Washington. At one time, it was one of the best franchises in the NFL closed quote.

So, three takeaways from this Jarrett Bell story. Number one is this. I don't believe there are 24 votes to oust them. I just don't think that that'll happen. I just believe in the theory that I have espoused since day one. It's not a unique theory, but it's what I've believed in since July of 2020, and that is the there for the grace of God go I theory. These owners are not going to vote him out for being a terrible owner. They have to have something much more hideous than just he's embarrassed the shit out of them and ruined a franchise.

It's got to be much worse. I don't think they'll vote him out. Number two. Takeaway number two. I do think that these quotes in this story are you. for this story of two years and running. I think they confirm something that we've known, that he's disliked, that they, you know, that they have tired of him, that there's Snyder fatigue, that they recognize

that he has essentially eviscerated a once proud fan base, that it's a lucrative, lucrative market opportunity that is not being taken advantage of. And it won't be as long as he's there. So I do think part of this and the timing of it is maybe an effort to pressure. him or shame him into selling the team, the Jerry Richardson result. Even though Jerry Richardson sold the team for different reasons, there was a direct sexual harassment implication. There was a direct racial insensitive remark implication. And he was 79 years old and he was perhaps planning on selling the team anyway. So it's not apples to apples, but I think they'd love to see that

result where Dan decides to sell the team on his own because they emphasize how, you he's really not welcome in their club anymore. You know, it's one thing for him to be delusional and lack self-awareness over the fact that he is a pariah in his own hometown and that he's ruined something that was so sacred at some point. But, you know, doesn't he get the hint from the other 31 or from the majority of the other 31 that it's just too much, man? It's too much. and it's going nowhere. You got to sell the team. And by the way, you're going to get $6 billion.

Let's call it $5.5 billion. You're going to net $4.5 billion or $4 billion after the sale. Go take the $4 billion. Take the pressure off yourself and your family. Go sail around the world on that yacht and enjoy life. You can't be enjoying this. Your fan base hates you. We don't like you.

Go away. That's takeaway number two, is that they are maybe trying to pressure and or shame him into coming to the conclusion that he should just sell the team. The third takeaway is, do I think that'll happen? I hope that it happens because I think it's the only way that he loses the team is to voluntarily decide to sell the team. I've said many times that I've got this gut feeling that eventually he's going to get around to realizing this isn't that much fun. I'm not going to win a Super Bowl. I'm not very good at this. Maybe he would never admit this, admit that,

but he's got to admit at the very least, right? That this isn't fun. I mean, the pressure that it puts on me and my family, and I might as well sell now. This might be the top of the market for the NFL. Probably not. But I still hold out some hope that that'll happen, but I also simultaneously feel this.

that he is, when he's backed into a corner, a bit of a fighter, and that all of this has been backing him into a corner and that perhaps his heels are dug deeper than ever before. Anyway, let's get to Ben Standing right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. Doesn't cost you a thing. Rate us and review us, especially on Apple and Spotify. That's a huge help. Ben Standing is always a big help.

help. He joins us right now on the show. Follow him on Twitter at Ben Standig. Subscribe to the Athletic and read Ben and also listen to his podcast, Standig Room Only. Ben was, did something that typically nobody in this business does. He took some time off last week and didn't write last week for the first time in a long time. I know you didn't go anywhere, but did you enjoy a week of not being forced to write on Devon? outlined. Always enjoy that. Somebody once mentioned that when you sign up to be a writer, you basically are signing yourself homework for the rest of your life, which is a, not that we all don't have work to do, but writing is a sort of a special hell. So, yes, I did enjoy that. Of course, me being me, I still put up a podcast midweek, and then I recorded two

interviews for a podcast that went up Monday morning. So it wasn't like that exactly got away, but I figured it's not like I'm not talking about this team in some way, even on my own time, so I might as well use it to advantage and, you know, talking about it with somebody on the record. So at least I did that a couple times. You know, that's an interesting way that you described what you do, like you've been assigned homework the rest of your life. And it's funny because, you know, as a young person, you know, what was the most depressing night of the week? It was Sunday night, right?

Because now we got the whole week of school coming up in tomorrow's Monday. And it was just always, God, there's nothing better than a Friday at school, especially when it's over and you've got the entire weekend. And, you know, doing what I do, and I can't speak from your standpoint, but what you said sort of made me think of this, I feel like there is homework every day for me. It's the preparation of next day's show. Like it is the, you know, sketching out what you want to do.

It's then reaching out and booking guests. It's coming up with, you know, and even in Sports Talk Radio, you do a lot of writing. You know, I mean, I used to have to write for our website. I don't have to do that anymore. But, you know, you sketch out a lot of the segments and a lot of the ideas and the points you want to get to. And over the years, there have been times where, you know, It's never seemed like work to me. But doing a radio show on your own is more of a grind.

I would just say it's not digging ditches, just so everybody understands. I am very aware of the job that I have. And, you know, I think more work goes into it than most of you would think, which is fine. I'm not here to be a martyr on a job that I love doing. But Sunday nights, Sunday afternoon, Sunday nights, I sit there. with the same angst of like I'm going back to school on Monday morning. It's like, okay, did I do my homework? How much homework do I have?

And really what it is is, what am I going to do on the show tomorrow? How am I going to do it? Who do I need to book as a guest? Because no offense to my producer who does a nice job, he does a really nice job. I book 90% of the guests that, and I've always been that way. That's probably my fault more than anything else. but I have that sense, too, that it's like there's some homework involved. It's that feeling of, I better get this shit done or I'm going to walk in unprepared

and that's not a great feeling to have. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And obviously, like, everybody who has, you know, if you have an office job or, you know, from those jobs, you have homework. I mean, it's not like you have things to do. But our jobs where you pull away once you punch out, so to speak, you go away and don't have to worry about the job. And I think that's for me writing in particular,

you know, obviously when I write something that goes up on the athletic, now everybody can see my work versus, you know, when you're, and obviously now that I'm doing a little more radio, I have appreciation for what you have to do to prepare. But when you, you know, when you're talking out, you can sort of the actual, you know, there's a certain points always make to the actual word choices in that spot is a little bit kind of different.

In any event, it's, yeah, to your point, I definitely appreciate the job that I have and it's fun and all that. But, yeah, I mean, there's something to be said for writing a paper, so to speak, multiple times a week. That was one of the things I disliked the least. You know, I was definitely the kid who shrunk the margins on his paper or throw in the extra long words or whatever it was. 100% I did that. So it is weird to be doing stuff like this as an adult.

that somehow I signed up for this life. Yeah, and I want to make sure I understand that many of you listening have the same sort of feeling on a Sunday night, you know. Oh, God, I got another full week of work, and tomorrow is just the first of a long week. I will say that, you know, Andy once said this, and he was so right about this. First of all, doing what's something that you love doing,

there is an aspect of it where it doesn't seem like work. and I really love the fact that that's what it feels like a lot of the time for me. But the one thing about sports talk radio, and I think, you know, you as a podcaster and as a writer, I think that people don't get, and Andy once said this, he said, if you do this well, you're always working because it's always about the next show. It's always about content. And, you know, every single day, like when I get done with the day, if you saw my phone late at night, there are like 15 entries of ideas for the next day or the day after or the day after. You're always thinking about that next show or, you know, the shows that are coming up in terms, especially this time of year.

It's so much easier to do during what I referred to and I've referred to in the past is, high season, which is kind of Labor Day through the Super Bowl. That's kind of easy to do what we do in a football intensive situation because the storylines and the topics pretty much make themselves, you know, they reveal themselves very easily. It's this time of year where you're really, you're working at it. Like you have to come up with stuff. Now, what came up Saturday is a gift. And with this franchise, we get a lot of gifts. We get a lot of stuff handed to us like, okay, well, we've got to talk about that. You know, the Jared Bell story.

But sometimes we don't. But anyway, enough of that. OTAs, yeah, go ahead. Well, I will just say, like, to this point, like, for me, like, there are some people I think who when they go on vacation can just flip the switch and they're in whatever setting they're in, and that is not something I can do easily. It is why I actually struggle taking vacation. and to that end, it's one thing

with the NFL season, we kind of know the rhythms of it, you mentioned, the high season through the Super Bowl, and then we get to the off season, you know, we start leading into free agency and then the draft, and then once you get past the draft, it gets a little quieter because you just have the OTAs that are coming up and things like that, then once we get past the minicamp

in mid-June, everybody goes away for like six weeks until training camp, and that's when reporters, NFL reporters, get away. The problem now is we have this other variable. And this other variable that came up Saturday night is the extracurricular stuff involving Dan Snyder that is not part of an NFL calendar. This is not a Congress situation per se, but Congress is not running on the NFL calendar. Neither is the NFL office per se or owners who want them perhaps talk, as they did here to USA Today about Dan Snyder.

And that's the part that is makes this place a little bit extra special right now and taking time off. even when you think you can doesn't actually mean you're really going to get away if you are going to be dedicated to the job because, you know, I can't just pretend it didn't exist just because I'm on vacation, you know. Yeah, and look, for me,

and I think you probably are similar, a lot of us that do this, I mean, one of the best parts about the job is, you're right, I'm never away from the job, like even if I'm on vacation. But the truth is what I'm paying attention to when I'm on vacation is what I'd

paying attention to anyway, you know, because I'm a sports fan. And I'm a fan of these teams. So I would be paying attention to it anyway. So it's not like, you know, I'm given extra credit when I go an extra credit opportunity that, you know, I take the teacher up on when I go on vacation. All right, enough of that. OTA, the first set of OTA days begins tomorrow. We will, I'll get your thoughts on Jared Bell's story here in a moment. I've already given mine in sort of the open to the podcast. and Neil and Rockville's going to weigh in with his thoughts as well here at the end of the podcast. But the first set of OTA days begins tomorrow. And I just want to get, for everybody listening, I just want to get this schedule down.

So are they scheduled for three sets of three-day OTAs? I know they didn't use all of them last year, but is that what is scheduled for this year? That is what is scheduled for this year. yeah, starting, and the media will be out there for one of those three-day sessions. So we'll be there tomorrow morning, Tuesday morning. For that Monday, basically, I feel like today is just everybody arriving. Hey, how you doing, you know, checking in, you got a haircut, you know, that type of deal. And then also, we still do have, for what it's worth, like, the rookies need to be signed.

As at the moment you and I are talking, I am aware that not all their draftics have been signed yet. So presumably that's going to get done here, I would think, in the next 24 hours. But because you see the Brett Ratt, we're pretty formulaic at this point. But yeah, stuff like that, they still need to find too, maybe even perhaps sign a guy, novel concept. But yeah, but other than that, Tuesdays will be on the field, Tuesday morning, and we will be out there. There are three sets of OTA days. They are voluntary, and then there's a mandatory minicamp I know in mid-June. So what are the expectations for the coaching staff about these three sets of three-day OTAs?

Well, obviously, this is, you know, the time to really start, you know, fine-tuning. This isn't the, you know, the rock and sock-um portion of the off-season, you know, limited to what they can do, you know, with hitting and things along those lines. This is really about getting everybody sort of situated. Here's the type of defense we're looking to run. here's in this situation, what we're trying to do, get a feel for how the rookies stack up against that, you know, even just to see how, you know, I mean, you know, these guys have already been around now for a few weeks in the first two phases of OTAs, so it's not like everybody's returning for the first time in month. But, yeah, this is the opportunity to get on the field

and sort of, you know, do some running, going offense, defense, and getting in that type of work, which I haven't done yet. But yeah, you mentioned the voluntary aspect, and that is a huge deal. I mean, our teams around the league, we'll make a big deal probably around here if one or two people miss. There are teams around the league where swaps of players don't show up, where they, that's just not in the DNA of the place, or maybe there's a team leader who just doesn't do these things, and other players follow. So we'll make a big deal as perhaps as we did last year.

It's like if Chase Young, not saying him this time, but just like how he did the show last year, that was a big deal. A lot of good, pay the patient around the league. Washington will probably be one of the teams closer to 100% than not. There probably will be some others where there's less people.

But again, it is voluntary. It's also, according to the coach, is important, right? And we checked El Rio, that entire rant he made the other day to Julie Donaldson about people in the secondary not showing up and the confusion over that. The point that he was making ultimately was all these practices matter,

and we need to be here, start, you know, fine-tuning what we're doing now, so we have, you know, his view and less problems come September and October. Yeah, I mean, the stories, if there are stories, are going to be about the attendance, especially if it's a key member and a perceived leader who doesn't post. But I don't know what you're expecting. I'm not expecting any big storylines related to absences for these OTAs. Are you?

Well, there's the Terry McCorn story, which I have not heard anything different at this point off of what I reported a few weeks ago, which is to say he's not expected to be on the field until there's a new contract. So, you know, he's been showing up to the various phases because it's been off, you know, it's not been having on the field. It's just conditioning and meetings and things like that. It hasn't been a true on-field practice. So, you know, that was the story as of a few weeks ago that he would not participate in starting now with on the field. So we will see if that holds true. Obviously, you know, his contract situation is a huge question at this point, no doubt. So, yeah, I think that's the one to watch.

Beyond that, I don't know of anything in particular. You know, I'll imagine there'll be a player or two who isn't there. And they'll tell us it for some personal reason and whatever. I think for some guys, especially the vet, the coaching, even the coaches are probably like this isn't that big of a deal. But the goal is to get everyone there to make it feel like it's a big deal from a culture perspective. And obviously there is some importance to it. So there will probably be a guy or two not there. But in terms of like, oh, wow, this player skipped and this is a problem.

I'm not sensing that at this point. Where are we on injuries from last year? Let's start with Chase Young. What do you know about his current? you know, injury, rehab, progression, will he be ready for training camp? Will he be ready for the regular season? What do you know about his injury situation? Yeah, I mean, you know, I think I'm particularly gun shy about injury situations after the

Curtis Samuel deal last year. But, you know, what they're telling, what they're saying is that Chase Young is progressing nicely. He's done a lot of work out in Colorado this offseason to work on that knee. And, you know, the talk from him, basically, you know, he's progressing and he'll be, you know, ready to go at least by week one. But, you know, I don't know. I don't know. This is for me sort of the part of where we start getting more clues and information. We'll be asking Ron Rivera. And if we get Chase Young, him as well, you know, this exact question, same with a Logan Thomas coming off of an ACL injury. he suffered in December, you know, trying to get a sense of, you know, is there real hope here

that these players will be available in training camp or by week one, or is there more trepidation that you're going to have to read between the lines? And that's, for me, you know, as much as, that's a huge part of all this. I mean, when people can say whatever they want about player, you know, oh, he's tracking fine, he's doing all the right things. I don't know, you know, it's sort of like with recruiting, you know, college basketball players. you can tell me what they are on a list, I need to see it. So that's kind of where I'm at with the injury stuff.

I don't have any sense that there are issues, but I'll buy in for week one stuff more after seeing them value language, what they say, stuff like that. Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, we'll know more over the next, you know, several weeks and certainly when we get to training camp. Like if Logan Thomas isn't ready to participate in training camp, then we can surmise that there's now a chance he won't be ready for the regular season. this point, it's probably too early to do that. And we'll still be watching and paying attention to

Curtis Samuel, because that was, you know, that was a story that got twisted many ways last year as well in terms of his injury and why and why he came back and should he have come back and all of that. Yeah, yeah, and that can go the other way as well, Alex Smith being a great example, because every time they kept saying he's closer to practicing, I was like, sure, sure, whatever you say, guy, that guy's going to practice, okay. And then obviously he did a lot more than that. So, yeah, you never know how these things go. And that's why I want to hear what they have to say and, you know, see what I could see.

What do you think other than the obvious, you know, Carson Wentz and his, you know, development in the offense during the offseason and his, you know, relationships with other players and how players are viewing him. What are the other major storylines? I mean, the defense and Carson Wentz are the obvious. What are the other big ones that we'll be spending a lot of time talking about between now and opening day? Well, I think from an individual player perspective,

I mean, I feel like Jamie Davis is a huge deal and the fact that they have done nothing at linebacker. I think it makes it almost even a bigger deal. They just simply the 20-21 first-round pick what kind of improvement does he show coming off of what I think is fair to say at this, a point of Rourke season. Again, right now, week one, the two linebackers they would use most of the time would presumably be Cole Holcomb and Jamie Davis, and we're not even sure, you know,

if Damon Davis forget his first round pick status, should he be on the field for as much as we typically see that other linebacker on the field? Not saying you can't. I mean, hopefully he's progressed. Ron Rivera said some positive things about Davis to the two reporters during the working minicamp talking about what had happened to that point in the various OTA phases. But I think that's a huge deal. And also, you know, what if he isn't quite ready?

What if, you know, not saying it would be a bus, but just what if he's not quite ready? Who else could step in? I think that's still a huge question for me, a little alone who are the backups to Holcomb and Davis. I think that whole situation remains confusing. and I think, like I said, because there's not even a John Bostic type to say, go out there and play because we need to give Jamie Davis more time, that's not a thing. You know, to also just stay on the defense, you know, obviously the miscommunication conversation was a big deal last year, especially in the first half of the year.

There shouldn't be that excuse this time, right? The top four defensive backs are still, you know, what we're with this team last year, they do add a Percy Butler and there are some questions with the death. But in terms of the top four, those guys were all here last year. So let's see what kind of situation there in. Del Rio did say he was a lot happier with where this group is now than they were at this time a year ago. So hopefully that's a sincere comment and something to keep in mind. You know, I think in general, like the depth chart will get at least, I mean, obviously there's a competition throughout the whole summer,

but we've got a little indication where things are at right now, like, for example, right guard. You know, we're assuming that Andrew Norval is the left guard, and right guard is, they just signed Trey Turner. And Schweitzer. They kept Schweitzer. There's also still Sadiq Charles, who I kind of, like, I keep making the point of, like, that there's not a lot of upside right now with this offensive line other than Sam Cosby,

but I think a guy like Charles offers that. We know in the past Rivera has said he, really like what Charles could do, but also he's not done anything that two years to suggest. He would be in the mix. I just kind of wonder, you know, this is an example of where our players at, you know, how have they progressed over time? And this would be an example, hey, if I think Charles has actually improved, he could be, and maybe in the mix. Again, I'm not really assuming that. I'm assuming it's Turner or Schweitzer, but it will get a sense of that.

And then, you know, go from there, you know, is Cam Sims out there with the ones as sort of a bigger target, or if he truly relegated to a limited role with Jahan Dotson, Samuel McCorn, while getting all the work, although I guess if McCorn is not there, then that opens up opportunities for others to get in some work. So, you know, and then we kind of just go from there. The basic depth has the work you look, things along those lines. But, yeah, I mean, I think those are some of the headlines to keep an eye on as we go and do at OTA. Yeah, I think running back is going to be interesting, too.

I'd throw that into the mix. Also, you know, I did read last week, and I forget where I read this, so I don't know if it's entirely true, but are they moving Antonio Gandy Golden to tight end and giving them a shot to make the team as a tight end or not? Yeah, that's the sense that I have. I don't know what to make of that in that, you know, you've got Logan Thomas, you've got John Bates, you drafted Cole Turner, so I'm, going to pencil him into the roster. Now, they don't always keep four tight ends.

They did last year, and you know, Sammis Reyes is still around, so kind of want to pencil him in as at least the leader there, but again, it's another example of progress, you know, we've seen the video that he looks pretty swore, but, you know, he improved his ability to catch a

path, things like that. And then you have Gandy Golden, you know, they added, I heard Logan Paul from the other day, say that, of the undrafted free agents, the one he's most interested in is the tight end. I think it's Curtis Hodges out of Arizona State, who, you know, was a notable college player and so on. So, you know, there's some decent competition there for that fourth spot, and I get, you know, Gandy Golden with his size. It would make some sense to do that.

But, you know, if they didn't, if they hadn't just drafted Cole Turner, I would might feel more intrigued by it, but kind of feels like that's two guys in the same space, so it makes me feel less hopeful for him. But we'll see. I mean, it's been surprising the Gandy Gold, because they've gotten so little out of him in his two years. So I appreciate the fact that they're trying to figure out of how to make some work. All right.

Let's finish up with the Jarrett Bell story. You read it. What was your reaction to it? Yeah. Sometimes I feel like, if I'm being honest, that I can be, you know, get, like, overly, dismissive of other reporting, especially if it doesn't feel like it's really moved the story. I'm like, sure, like, didn't we already kind of know a lot of these things, right?

That the owners, that there were some owners out there who were not thrilled with Dan Snyder, who were open to having a conversation about removal. I don't necessarily know that it felt like all that unique or different, other than the fact that there are quotes here attributed to owners, which is something anonymous quotes. That said, I also have to remind myself, that, you know, having any sign of talk from ownership about possibly moving on from Snyder or kicking him out of the club or whatever is significant relative to where we've been all along.

And I have said each turn along the way in these stories that I don't really care what Congress is doing or anything like that. It comes down to will the owners ultimately decide they're open to making a move, even if it is a potentially Pandora's box for their own organizations and practices and things like that. So I don't really view this as like some game changer, but it is okay, another moment in time here of where we're reminded that owners have an issue with Snyder. And I guess the one thing that's interesting is

the owners are meeting this week, I believe Tuesday, Wednesday, or I don't know if I'm meeting in person or having a meeting, but in any of them, they're having some sort of meeting. So the fact that the story just came out now, it's interesting from a timing perspective that some people want something to get out. right now ahead of this meeting to build some momentum.

I have heard that there's some frustration among the owners with how Goodell has handled certain aspects of this, including the punishment. But, you know, again, I thought the owner tell the ones calling Goodell to some degree what to do here in various aspects, though, because he answers to them. So, you know, I don't know. I mean, I think this is something.

I just don't think it's the biggest deal. And I will just say lastly that I think there was a note in the story that said from one of the, owners that this was like the first real time that there's been conversation about getting rid of Dan following the talk of potential financial um yeah he'd be a financial book work here if that's the case well that just tells you how shameful this whole lot is because this is this investigation into the sexual harassment stuff began in 2020 so if you're telling me that it took some notion of crooked books which relatively

doesn't even seem like it's a big deal based on the information that we have, that says that they were completely overlooking the other parts, which seems like a pretty big deal. So just keep that in mind if anybody's looking for these owners as like some sort of saving grace here, this is what you're dealing with. If, in fact, it's true, and I don't know if it is, because I believe that other owners had been open to, you know, we're mortified by what was being reported starting back in 2020.

But just I'm going to keep in mind. All right. One last one having nothing to do with that. I was reading, you know, Locke and Forra about a bunch of the contracts that are in the news, Debo Samuel, you know, Terry McLaren, etc. By the way, his story, which focused on, you know, essentially seven or so contracts that are, you know, being negotiated or expected to be extended. I thought it was interesting that he thinks that both Kyler Murray and Lamar Jackson will end up not getting an extension and end up signing franchise tags in 2023 or being signed franchise tags in 2023. That aside, he wrote about Terry McLorne.

This could get explosive. He's been the Washington offense. He goes into a lot of different things with A.J. Brown and what the receiver market is. He said, does this franchise have the bedside manner and nuance to handle this situation if it gets dicey? I can't help but wonder if at least one more receiver gets dealt. He said this could get explosive. And then his likely outcome was, I can't rule out a trade here.

You have to consider this franchise and its leadership at the highest level. Look, we know Jason is not the biggest fan of the Washington football, Redskins team or commanders, as many aren't. I think there is zero percent chance. literally of Terry McClureen getting traded. But I want to know what you think right here today on May 23rd about the likelihood of the extension being done before camp. Yeah, I mean, as a reminder, he's under contract for this year

and they can go with the franchise tag next year for around 20 million and then they could do it again for another year before things start getting crazy. So there's no real reason to trade him, other than just if things were to get volatile. And in terms of personality, Terry McCorn seems like the last guy that would, from the player end, would have that happen. That said, in terms of getting the contract done, I'm still very sort of up in the air on the whole thing, I guess.

I mean, ultimately, you would think logically that everybody would get it done. But, you know, I think one, there does become a point of how much is too much for a guy like McCorn, if he really, you know, if his agent is coming in saying, give us Tyree Kill money, because not only is Terry McCorn a very good quarterback, a very good receiver, saddled by bad quarterback so far, but he's also sort of, you know, one of the faces of your franchise, he isn't just a playmaker. He's a locker room leader, and that's not to be dismissed, especially for an organization that is constantly facing turmoil. But then the other component is the lack of spending. I wouldn't, you know, most of years, we would,

wouldn't really be wondering about this, but, you know, it's been very odd, to say the least, that they have been so light with their money, and there is sort of this uncertainty with Dan Snyder's finances in terms of, uh, cash flow, you know, available cash. Yeah, cash flow. Right, right, right. And obviously, if you're talking about a deal that were, you know, $100 million or whatever, you know, with a massive signing bonus, you know, over 50 million, you know, that's something to keep in mind. So I would say the odds are still this gets done, but again, this is sort of where this week

comes into play. Like, everything feels quiet today, and all it's going to take is a Ron Rivera comment during a press conference on Tuesday saying, I don't know, who knows what he could say, but all of a sudden could trigger a lot of different thoughts from there. And surely there will be some reporting coming out over the next

48 hours from various places as well. So we'll see. Again, I would say the odds are something gets done, and I don't I agree with you. It doesn't feel like a trade is the likely scenario, but at the same point, we'll see. I think the McClellan side has a lot of leverage and the Washington side, because of the money, it just been curious, kind of what they're doing here. Yeah, I just think that right now, their goal is to put out the most competitive product they can put out in 2022. We've talked about this, you know, since the end of the season, Ron Rivera's been telegraphing.

how important this year is. Their actions have pretty much backed up that this is a big year. Terry McLaurin's not going anywhere, whether he's signed to a contract extension, which I think he will be prior to camp or not. They're going to put the players on the field this year that give them the best chance at success. Yeah, I mean, look, Ron Rivera has talked about the year three jump. He made a Carolina. You go back to last season, at least for me, when I started talking about, Not only was the quarterback, obviously, a huge deal. We knew that, but that it would specifically be a veteran. Because if you draft a rookie, even if from a long-term benefit, that's the way to go.

That's not helping you much this year. And this year feels like a much bigger deal than just the next year up because, you know, it's the third year. They haven't had a winning record yet. You know, you've got to win at some point this way, no matter what your track record is. I'm not saying Ronda Vare is about a bad job. They did win the division yet.

not, we're forgetting that, but, you know, what's the next step, especially when you see, you know, Dallas and Philly, you know, feels like they're positioning themselves to have, to have, doubt that we took a step back, but they won the division last year, had a lot of talent, had the best quarterback of the division. Eagles seem to have made some strides. So I think that's important. By the way, I will just note that, you know, we all made a big deal about what Del Rio said the other day regarding that because they didn't have full participation at various stages of the offseason last year that that led to the defensive backfill of the particular struggling. And obviously we saw the defense as a whole labor for the first half of the year in particular. If you're going to sign some other vets to join the situation, then they better be here by Tuesday. Right? Because if you're going to tell me that these practices matter that much, that phase two walkthroughs from a year ago impacted you in October,

well, then what are we dealing with here? This isn't even that much money to sign whomever. So if AJ Klein gets signed right before the season starts, well, how could the linebacking corps be any good this year without him having participated in phase two? Thanks for doing this as always. listen to Ben's podcast. It does well also. Stand a Groom only. He does a great job with it, and he's got good guests on his show. And of course, really what I would do more than anything else is subscribe to the Athletic to read Ben cover this team. I don't think anybody does it better.

Thanks, as always, I'm sure I'll talk to you again before the end of the week. Take care. I appreciate that. Thanks so much. We'll get to Neil and Rockville next and see if he thinks this Jarrett Bell story increases the possibility that Dan Snyder is out as owner of the Washington commanders. Right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Neil and Rockville, joining us on the podcast today. Neil is a big time lawyer in the Montgomery County system, and he's a good friend and a frequent listener and a frequent contributor to the podcast and the radio show.

So what did you make at the Jarrett Bell's? story. You know, Kevin, I don't see it really pushing us much further from where we've been. If you look at it in its entirety, I don't think it really gave us a lot more information than the Florio story back in the fall. I mean, we definitely get quotes from some of the, a couple of anonymous owners, but there's really nothing earth-shattering in there. You know, I think the biggest headline is the quote, you know, they're counting the numbers, but, you know, in light of his behavior over the past two years, you'd be thinking that they'd be sort of counting the numbers ever since.

The first story broke from the Washington Post, and that's not gotten them any further than, you know, just stories upon stories, upon stories, but nothing seemingly going much further down the line except for, you know, I think the underlying issue that we consider possibly the one thing that could get him in a lot of trouble is the whole notion of did he defraud his partners in the NFL and by contract the players too. Yeah, and that would have to be a unique thing. You know, he would have to be, even though you and I've discussed this before, that the amounts might add up to something completely insignificant in terms of the overall, you know,

sized business this is. If he's the only one that ripped off the other owners and by extension the players, that could be a problem. But we've always said that there's a possibility that everybody's cooked the books to a certain degree and maybe even unintentionally, I mean, given the amount of money that we might be talking about. Yeah, I mean, and that's exactly why they do these audits on a regular basis. I mean, not just external audits like normally corporations do for tax purposes, but internal audits,

not only for the NFL, but as we've also learned, the NFLPA, has their auditors go in there because since they get a cut of all the proceeds, that money's theirs too. So there have been a lot of eyes on this over the years, and, you know, unless something, you know, shows up that no one had caught for years. And as you said, it's something unique upon the Washington franchise. You know, it doesn't get anywhere close to what they'd ultimately have to do to have a basis to try and remove him from his ownership. So what do you make of this story?

Why do you think owners have been here for the first time, for the most part, more willing to at least say, or certainly describe their disdain over him and what he's done in this market and how he wasn't punished enough by the commissioner for the Wilkinson report. What do you make of like this kind of, you know, coming to the four now? By the way, just in time for a set of league meetings this week. You know, I think we've always known that there's probably been a group of owners out there that really don't like Dan. don't like the way he acts,

just like there's probably a group out there that don't like Jera. You know, they sort of are tied, Danny and Jera sort of tied together. And, you know, we've seen Dan, as we've seen from other, you know, instances in the past.

And I think maybe they're willing to speak out a little bit more, maybe hopefully putting some pressure on Goodell because they probably don't think that Gadell is bringing the hammer down on him as much. But, you know, We also have a lot of owners out there that have their own issues going on. You got a lot of them caught in the Flores lawsuit. You've got Cleveland paying all that money and constructing a contract that if he is suspended for this coming year,

he's really not going to be penalized in light of the fact that there are some really serious matters that in light of his testimony are likely going to have to end somehow in a settlement. I don't think he's going to go to trial on all these things. And then you even got cases out in Vegas that not only with regard to Gruden, but then you also have issues about one of the general managers or someone high up that just left that stated that there has been a horrible workplace environment out there. So, you know, maybe some of these owners are just thinking, you know what, Goodell hasn't been a good steward and, you know, trying to put some of the pressure on him.

but I think it's going to be really hard in light of everything to get a lot of these guys to sort of circle the wagons and try and take Dan out. That's another fight they don't want. Yeah. I concluded that, first of all, I found the column to be very interesting because of the quotes that were in there from these owners. We just, we haven't had that. We've had a lot of congressional testimony. We've had a lot of politicizing of what's gone on. we've certainly had all of the women that have stepped forward to tell their stories,

but the only people that can actually oust him are the other owners. You know, again, it's not overly revealing that they don't like them. We've been hearing this for a long period of time. It's not a big reveal that they are embarrassed by this particular market and that they feel like it's a huge missed opportunity right now. but you know I just wanted to find out from you whether or not you thought this could ultimately lead to some sort of vote in three quarters of a vote to vote him out I didn't think it would and it sounds like you're in agreement I do think that perhaps you know

continuing to push you know how much he is disliked how much they are embarrassed by what he's done that you know that coupled with the way his hometown feels about him that maybe they're trying to shame him into selling the team, you know, and maybe that's the wrong strategy with somebody like that. But I think that ultimately their hope is that $6 billion and, you know, basically this 10,000-pound gorilla of hate off his back might, you know, might eventually be the way they get a new owner in here. You know, as you sort of said, you know, in light of Denver, what they're likely selling price

and then the projected potential selling price of D.C., which is a much, you know, stronger market, you know, maybe there is a number that Dan is willing to sell, and if they wanted to come up with it, they certainly could come up with it. But, you know, it makes him someone special, as we know, and it goes to his ego because otherwise to just be a guy. with, you know, five or six billion dollars and he wouldn't be an NFL owner,

which is something that he lives off more than that money. Then again, as sort of we all have talked about also, the underlying issue very well might be is like he'll take the start, so take the arrows,

he'll take everything as long as he can hold on to this franchise until he can, you know, bring his kids into it. And they can take it over and they can, you know, go forward with it. I mean, we've had a lot of teams and a lot of franchise in the NFL who,

the current owners, had fathers who, you know, were horrible, horrible owners. And so he might just be feeling like, you know what, this is the one big gift that my kids, you know, want and I can give them. And so I'll, you know, take all the criticism, you know, until such time as I can turn it over. It doesn't bother me. And, you know, what a billionaire cares about other people saying about them, I'm sure, is a lot different to what you and I would care about other people saying about us. I guess.

I guess, you know, that combined with the short-term, you know, getting to hang out with McConaughey and Clooney and Cruz and all of that, you know, I guess that all adds up to, yeah, I'm not going anywhere. And, I don't. And, Kevin, if they win, if they win, you know, if they get on one of these, you know, a couple seasons of, you know, above 500 and playoffs and then second round playoffs and it's moving forward, the fan base is going to care a lot less about Dan than the team. Yeah, I don't know about that.

You know, I, for so long, you and I have had these conversations before, for so long for me, the answer was just win and everything else will pale in comparison. then it was just get rid of Snyder and then win. And now I think the latter is paramount. I think that even if they won and won big, which by the way, isn't likely to happen as long as he owns the team and they're without a true elite franchise quarterback, so it's not going to happen. But even if they were to hit the Chicago Bears,

Rex Grossman, inside straight and make a Super Bowl, or, you know, do it with a Nick Foles type. It's, I don't know that everybody's going to, I think there are people openly rooting against this team until he's gone. I think that that is a new phenomenon, not new, but it's a more recent phenomena of the last decade that a big portion of the fan base, what used to be the fan base, and by the way, the more lucrative part of the fan base, doesn't give a shit. about whether or not they win anymore.

They just want their team back from him. They want it taken away from him or for him to sell. And then maybe they'll be interested. But like we found out, Neil, during the pandemic, people found other things to do. And I think with this football team, people have found other things to do. And especially the older generation of fans

that remember the glory days, I don't know how many of them are coming back even with a big winner. I doubt that it's what it would have been five or six or eight years ago had they just won. I think it's different now. I think there is embarrassment of even remotely considering rooting for a team owned by this particular person with a lot of people out there. But I could be wrong. We'll find out.

The one other thing, you know, the group our age and older and not going to, not coming back, you know, people might not want to like hearing it, but, you know, changing that name, if you're not there in the stands after a touchdown singing hail to the Redskins, it ain't going to be the same. No, that's a big part of it too. All right, man, thanks for doing this. Appreciate it, as always. You got it.

All right, that's it for the show today. Thanks to Neil. Thanks to Ben. Back tomorrow.