The Kevin Sheehan Show - We're Back!

Episode Date: March 23, 2022

Kevin is back with Thom today. Lots covered including catching up on things missed last week, a new show recommendation, Washington QB talk, the Kevin Willard hiring, and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. We are back, and it's really nice to be back. And it's nice to be back on this Wednesday, March 23rd, with my good friend, Thomas Levero. You know, when you said to me a few weeks ago, you said, boy, you got a lot of time to be watching a lot of things and reading a lot of things. days. Remember that? Yes, I do. Did I tell you about watching the first episode of winning time,

the rise and fall of the Lakers Dynasty on HBO after I watched the first episode a few weeks ago? No. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I know the series. It's based on a book by Jeff Perlman. Absolutely. Tommy, have you watched it? You have I haven't watched it. I haven't watched it yet. Major recommendation, five-star recommendation to watch winning time, the rise of the Lakers Dynasty on HBO. I watched the first episode before I went away a couple of weeks ago and then missed the

second one, and I got caught up last night with both episodes. You're breathing very hard into your microphone right now. Are you outside, are you on a walk? What are you doing right now? I'm everywhere. Am I doing okay now? You're much better now. I'm just happy to be breathing.

Well, that's always a good start to a day, isn't it? Yeah. Tommy, this is so well done. It is nothing like what I expected. It is, first of all, the first episode included, Jack Kent Cook. As you know, he was the owner of the Lakers. He was owner of the Great Western Forum.

He sold it to Jerry Bus. And then became, you know, in 1979, the majority owner of the Redskins at that point, Michael O'Keefe plays Jack Kent Cook in the opening episode. And I think I mentioned this on the podcast, and I thought it was with you, but that's fine that it wasn't. He makes Jack Kent Cook's,

he plays Jack Kent Cook as one of the true worst human beings that we've ever had on the planet Earth. Now I'm three episodes in, and there are things that I'm learning. Let me just first mention. This is a combination of mockumentary, documentary, dark comedy, and, yeah, I guess that's what it's kind of a combination of. John C. Riley plays Jerry Buss. One of my favorite actors. He's so good. This guy, Quincy Isaiah, plays Magic Johnson.

He's very good. And it's just, like, I thought it looked like kind of a clownish thing in the promos. And then when I was in L.A. last week, you know, you see the billboards everywhere. So my son and I last night at home got caught up watching episodes. two and three. And it was, at the end of it, it was like, I wish I could binge this show right now, the rest of it. But we're into, you know, a week-by-week thing on HBO.

I think everybody out there listening, whether you're an NBA fan, a Lakers fan, it doesn't matter. This is really, really well done. They switch, you know, in their shooting of this, they switch between like flashbacks and different cultures. events into the actual script of what's going on. It's just so well done. Adam McKay directed the first episode. He directed Moneyball, Saturday Night Live guy. Jonah Hill directed the second episode. I actually don't know who directed the third episode that

I watched last night. But I'm learning a lot about this period of time. The NBA, it was thought, Tommy, in 1979 before Magic Johnson was drafted by the Lakers and Larry Bird came out. He was actually drafted the year before by the Celtics and the supplemental draft, I guess, which put him with the Celtics the following year. But this was 1979 after Magic-faced Bird in the NCAA final. and the NBA was on the verge of potentially going out of business. It was hemorrhaging money. Well, according to Adam McKay, it wasn't in great shape, but it wasn't going out of business.

Look, I've heard a lot of negative reviews about it. Really? And one in particular, how they dump on Jerry West. Oh, my God. And I think even that's over the top, but it's very entertaining. Okay. I'm going to watch it, but I've not heard good things about it. Oh, I've read a lot of really good reviews. Now, what I have read is that they've gone to the extreme with some of the characters like Jerry West in particular. They make them out to be a crazy person, completely over-the-top nuts.

but there's also a lot of historical, you know, documentary fact in this as well. Like Jerry West didn't want to draft Magic Johnson. Jerry Buss kind of forced it. Number two is, did you know how close the Lakers were to hiring Jerry Tarkhanian before Magic's rookie year? I didn't remember that, did you? No, I don't remember that. more importantly, Jerry Tarkhanian's best friend, his financial advisor, his life advisor at UNLV, was a guy by the name of Vic Weiss.

Are you familiar with what happened to Vic Weiss? No. This isn't, look, you're going to watch a show. This is going to sound a little bit like a spoiler, but I'm just going to give you this one piece. Jerry Tarkhanian was on the verge of taking the Lakers job. Jerry Buss had convinced him to take the job. Vic Weiss was very much involved in helping Tark or convinced Tark to take the Lakers' job for a shitload of money.

Back then, it was $750,000 a year. And Vic Weiss was assassinated before Tark took the job formally. And the belief is, although the assassination's never been solved, The murder's never been solved, that it was the mob because they did not want Tark to leave Vegas. They loved Tark. Tark was a hero in Vegas. And they blamed Weiss for talking Tarkanian into taking the Lakers job. And before Tark actually signed on the dotted line, they killed Weiss and Tark decided to go back to UNLV.

That sounds like a bit of a stretch. Maybe. The mob usually doesn't kill people because they don't want their favorite coach to leave. You would know you stole seating charts from mob luncheons and hotels in the state of Pennsylvania. But I look this up and there's a big thing on Vic Weiss murder. How did he die? Who killed him? And it's still an unsolved murder.

But there's a lot of speculation that it did have to do with Tarkani. potentially leaving Vegas. Okay. It was a hideous murder, by the way. Adrian Brody plays Pat Riley. I think you'll like this. I really think you'll like it. Maybe if it's historically inaccurate, you won't.

But I think you're going to love the way it's shot and the way it's acted. Will you give it a try? Of course I'm going to watch it, yes. Okay. Look, I just got done one. watching, it's a couple years old. It's a two-season series on Netflix called Secret City out of Australia, which is really, really good. Really good. But now I'm going to catch up

on the HBO winning time. Yeah, like, I can't wait for the next episode because in the first three episodes, they haven't even gotten to the beginning of the 1979 season, which, as we both no, ended with a Lakers title. There's a lot of stuff with Red Hourback and Jerry Buss early on too, and Jeannie is a young, you know, kind of teenaged girl working in the organization as well. I don't know. I have to, I guess I've got to go back and do the fact versus fiction thing on this. There's no doubt that there's some exaggeration.

I talked about it on the radio show today, and I'm telling you, I have gotten besieged with tweets about how much people love the show. And so I think you'll like it. Trust me, I was very skeptical going in. But anyway, winning time, The Rise of the Lakers Dynasty on HBO, it's a recommendation from me. How are you? I've missed you.

By the way, you know, I'm just looking. this up and just as a note of warning to you, Mick Weiss was probably killed because of the gambling debts. He owed the mob. Okay. So keep that in mind, boss. That's fine. That's fine.

But Jerry Tarkhanian was pursued. Here's a, did a mob hit really prevent Jerry Tarkanyan from coaching the Lakers? In actuality, it's mostly true. Tarkhanian had, in fact, been hired by the Lakers. shortly before Weiss's murder. His grief and shock over the death of his friend, combined with his desire to stay in Las Vegas, ultimately led him to turn down the gig.

A mere three days earlier on the evening of June 14th, Weiss had seemed to be the happiest man on the planet. A 51-year-old sports promoter who served as Jerry Tarkhanian's representative had bounded out of the front entrance of the Beverly Comstock Hotel, euphoric in knowledge that his client was about to be named the new coach of the Lakers.

those were the words cook and bus had just used during their meeting were excited to have jerry as the new coach of the lakers Weiss in fact was found dead in the trunk of his car on June 17th 1979 the June 14th meeting with bus was the last time he had been seen alive so okay um so there you go boss um who knows what's true it's entertaining as hell and you know that the best is yet to come because the Lakers really were at that.

Look, Tommy, 1978, the Bullets won their title. 1979, the Bullets and Sonics played in a rematch of the NBA finals and the Sonics won. In 1978 and 1979, NBA playoff games were being shown on tape delay. Do you know that Game 6 of the 970s? 1980 finals between the Lakers and the 76ers, which was the famous Magic Johnson 42-point game playing center for Kareem, was shown on tape delay on CBS unless you were in the L.A. and Philadelphia markets. That's crazy. And look, remember in the late 70s, the NBA was dealing with the whole

with the drug thing that was coming out of Phoenix, the whole issue with the drug scandal. I don't know what you're talking about. Phoenix with the Suns. I don't remember that. Yeah, there were a couple. Yeah, that's what really was supposedly putting the NBA at risk at the time. There was like a real culture of drug use in the league at the time.

Well, I mean, I've certainly heard of those stories. I don't remember the Phoenix story specifically. But Tommy, the other issue, and this is brought up in this show, and this is something that I've read about as well, the league was considered to be too black for the time, and that that was not helping in, you know, with attendance and with ratings. And Larry Bird's given a lot of credit for, you know, along with Magic, who was very much. kind of a crossover figure like O.J. Simpson and others of the time, you know, magic and bird together are given obviously the ultimate, along with David Stern, I think, in thinking about this for the resuscitation of the NBA or the saving of the NBA. And maybe you're right. Maybe it wasn't about to go out of business, but it was probably on the verge

of retracting. It was in trouble. It was in trouble. It had, in the late 60s and early 70s because of the Knicks, it had, you know, undergone a resurgence of late, but, you know, after 75, it started to go down the tubes. Yeah, I mean, the Bullets Seattle back-to-back championship series had to be absolute duds for the NBA when you think about it. Because you had Walton and the Trailblazers against the 76ers, with Dr. Jay in 1977. And that was exciting for basketball fans

because it was Dr. Jay, Tommy, was that his first year in the NBA? I think it was. It might have been him and George McGuinness. They were teammates. Right. And that would have been the first year, right? Yeah, because the ABA ended in 76. So it would have been the first year of the ABA NBA merger.

Dr. Jay goes to the 76ers, and it's the 76ers against Bill Walton's Blazers in the final. And I bet that, you know, if you were to look back, that was a very popular series, followed by two years of watching games on tape delay at 1130 at night on CBS. I remember that game seven of Washington, San Antonio in the Eastern Conference finals, even in the D.C. market was not shown live on television. It was tape delayed. That's stunning when you think about how it is today. Anyway, I really, really like the show. It's good to be back. By the way, a quick thank you to Tim Murray and Aaron Oster.

Tim and Aaron are obviously not only friends, but Aaron produces the podcast for filling in on the days that I was out. If you can hear it in my voice, yeah, it was a fun trip, west to L.A. Tommy and then to Palm Springs for a wedding where there were several late nights, lots of golf, lots of parties, lots of alcohol. And when I got back, I was definitely feeling it. You know, it was like you and I talked yesterday briefly. It's like some of those trips when you're with your boys and you get back from Vegas and you need a vacation when you get back from Vegas. It was kind of like that.

The older you get, the more important recovery time is. Yeah, I guess. How have you been? Me? I've been great. How's your tooth? I've been doing great. Oh, yeah, I told you.

I had to go to the dentist because while I was on my Levero Southern Soul Tour, a piece of my back tooth just, like, came out. And that had never happened to me before. I usually have pretty good teeth. I don't have that many cavities that I take good care of them. And this is a piece of a filling just popped out. So I went to the dentist and, you know, they're going to put a filling in, but I don't have any pain.

There's no nerve exposed. So, I mean, I'm doing fine. That's good to know that you've never had any problem with your teeth. Because you've had other issues. And you know what? Yeah. I know. Many other issues.

well God didn't take you know God didn't totally hate me gave me decent tea have you been a flosser your whole life and you know something? What? I've never frost in my life Are you serious? Not once Not once Well So you've never flossed What have you done to keep up your dental health? I don't know

I brush my teeth Yeah I use mouthwash I brush my teeth twice a day I use mouthwash Right That's it. You have healthy gums? Yeah. Good.

Okay. Very good. And you know what? I didn't go to a dentist until I was 25 years old. Oh, great. Well, it's a good thing you were gifted healthy teeth and gums. Is that true? You never went to the dentist until you were 25?

Absolutely. That must have been a hell of a cleaning. Well, it was a hell of a cleaning. And I also had to take my wisdom. some teeth out at the time. And that was not pleasant. That was basically my second or third trip ever to the dentist, and I'm getting four wisdom teeth taken out. Do you know I still have my wisdom teeth, didn't have to have them pulled? I guess I should be grateful for that because I know it's not the most comfortable of things to have done. No. No, it wasn't back then. And I had a dentist

who wouldn't put me to sleep while he was doing it. So it wasn't painful, but it was the most uncomfortable feeling you can imagine. I mean, I'm feeling him breaking off the tooth, you know, as he's pulling it out, and I'm yelling, and he's yelling at me to stop yelling. Who doesn't, did he numb it up at least? Yeah, he numbed it up, but I was awake for the whole thing. What was this? Like a part dentist, part, you know, insurance agent? Listen, I had an Uncle Rocco who pulled his own teeth with pliers.

Oh, my God. Tom Hanks style in Castaway. Yeah. But in pliers, he basically tied some sort of, you know, bamboo to, God, that was painful. Can you imagine being a castaway and having a terrible toothache and needing to yank your own tooth? That was probably the worst part of that three-year, you know, castaway situation for him. That movie was a pretty good movie, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. Well, it's Tom Hanks.

You really can't go wrong with Tom Hanks. I think people also have this fantasy of what it would be like to live on one of those islands and try to survive. You know, for me, the only way that it would really work is if there was a freshwater source and a couple of really good, like, fruit trees and maybe some fishing equipment already on the island, then I'd be in good shape. Other than that, I could have never done what he pulled off. But I do think that people have that fantasy of what would it be like if I was on a deserted island and had to survive?

Could I do it? I don't know. I think commander fans have that fantasy. You wouldn't need a dentist. Be stuck on a desert island. Yeah. Stuck on a desert island. We got a lot to catch up on.

I mean, while I was away, so much happened. But I think, you know, more than anything is, the story continues to be kind of the quarterback situation. It's funny because so much. happened in the first few days that I was out last week, football-wise. I'll tell you, just to be totally candid, I probably watched less of the NCAA tournament in the first weekend than I've ever watched. It just was not doable with all of the family-related activities. You know, I watched some of it, and I had, by the way, Jared Beinam, who's the point guard for Providence on the radio show this

morning. So, you know, go to the team 980.com. Jared played at Georgetown Prep, was a first team all met and has been a leader for Ed Cooley's team who's into the Sweet 16 against Kansas on Friday night. In fact, Tommy, I was sharing with Jared and my son played on that Georgetown prep team that finished number two in the city. Jared was a first team all met his senior year. Listen to this. On the all met team 2018, Jared, Bynum, who's the point guard for Providence in the Sweet 16. Justin Moore, who played at DeMatha, who is playing for Villanova. Jeremy Roach, who is playing for Duke.

Three players in the Sweet 16, not to mention a guy like Miles Dredd who played at Penn State. Then on the second team, the second team, you had Brandon Slater, who's in the Sweet 16. Third team, Hunter Dickinson and Terrence Williams, both of whom play for Michigan. in the Sweet 16. And you can keep going down. It's just amazing the talent that comes out of this area year in and year out. But that was a spectacular year. But I haven't, I didn't really get into the tournament the first weekend. I know there were a lot of upsets in my pool was completely blown up. I had, you know, Iowa, Kentucky, I think in the final, they both lost in the first round. And my formula that you love every year that produces the teams that can win it,

Kansas is still there, Duke is still there. That's it. Kentucky, Iowa, and Baylor were the others. Two of them got knocked out in the first round. The other got knocked out in the second round. But there was a lot of football last week. And then not so much this week in terms of Washington, but I think the conversation is still about the quarterback, right? Yes. By the way, I'm still working on putting together my bracket, just in case you're interested.

Yeah, no, I am. I'm still working on putting mine together. Well, don't get it to... I'll let you know when it's done. Yeah, don't get it done too quickly. You should wait a couple of weeks and then present it to everybody. Okay. Okay. Yeah, the quarterback, well, the quarterback is, yeah. I mean, look, even when the quarterback is John Beck and Rex Grossman, It's big news. So when you pray for somebody like Carson Wentz, of course it's going to be, it's going to dominate the conversation.

Let me begin with this because we're going to do football here in this opening segment. And then I will get to the Kevin Willard hiring in College Park next segment. He was also on the radio show this morning as well. You can catch that on the team 980.com. A couple of things real quickly since I've been out. Number one, Jady McKissick leaves and then comes back. And then Brandon Bean basically blames the team for it. Personally, I think that's kind of crying over spilt milk.

I think it's the agent's fault. Brandon Bean doubled down on that on the Pat McAfee show yesterday, blaming the club for, I guess, breaking protocol. meantime, Randy Gregory committed to Dallas and then changed his mind. It's happened several times in this offseason. Bottom line is the agent needs to take the hit on the McKissick thing, in my opinion. Matt Ionitis got released. Tim Settle went to Buffalo.

Eric Flowers got released while it was away. They signed Andrew Norwell. You know, it's funny, all the pimping for Washington with Albert Breer and Mike Silver and others about what a great opportunity it was. One of the first things mentioned, Tommy, is, well, they had this sixth ranked PFF offensive line last year with great depth. I know. And meantime, you know, Flowers is gone, sheriff is gone, and we don't know if Lucas will be there. But, you know, they re-signed Bobby McCain, and they lost, you know, like Ricky Seals Jones. I think they wanted him. He ended up signing with the Giants. DeShazer Everett, your guy got released.

Finally, Cam Sims re-signed. There were a lot of things that went on, but I wanted to focus in on this. And I'm going to read you, I'm going to read you this note that I got from patio. It was a long note, but I'm just going to break it down for you here quickly because I think it's interesting. He said, Sheehan, I loved your conversation with Kime yesterday that was on radio. He said, I agree with you on Matt Ryan, just so everybody, it's listening to the podcast, it doesn't listen to the radio show. To me, it's not even a debate.

Matt Ryan's a better quarterback than Carson Wentz. You guys are high if you think Carson Wentz is better than Matt Ryan. Okay? I mean, I'm not saying that Washington had a chance at Matt Ryan. And I don't, you know, if you, in waiting for Matt Ryan may have been dicey, but I don't think Atlanta wanted to trade Matt Ryan when Washington traded for Carson Wentz. It was only became, it only became that way.

when they failed on Deshawn Watson, and then they decided, you know what, we're going to go ahead and start our rebuild now. But I watch football, okay? Matt Ryan's a better quarterback than Carson Wentz. Carson Wentz has an upside, and he's younger, and these are all valid reasons for prefering the trade of Wentz to Ryan. But don't tell me that Carson Wentz has been a better quarterback than Matt Ryan. Matt Ryan was a fucking MVP. He quarterbacked a team. And you know what? Carson Wentz was on his way to being an MVP.

That's fair too. Matt Ryan, to me, has been a better quarterback. And if you had given me the choice of Matt Ryan or Carson Wentz for the next year or two, especially given that Matt Ryan only cost Indy a third round pick and 24 million on their cap instead of two third rounders, or really a second and a third rounder and 24 million, I would have taken Ryan and then I would have drafted somebody and said, all, let's do this. First of all, you don't have the risk with Ryan in terms of whatever is the personality

slash leadership flaws. I mean, he's a leader. I mean, he's respected. You know, nobody's tried to run him off after a year. So a lot of you have said, you know, and reached out to me and said, you guys, you're nuts on Matt Ryan. No, I'm not. That's my opinion. Matt Ryan's a better quarterback.

Anyway, back to this letter. It's clear, Paddyo writes, that they panicked a little bit on the Wentz trade. But aren't you glad that they did? What if they, meaning Washington right now, were Carolina? And he said, as you said, this was on the radio show yesterday, if they were Carolina, meaning you were stuck with Taylor Heineke and nobody that you got in free agency or via a trade. and it was Taylor Heineke in the draft, which is where the focus would be. You and Ben and Kime and Nikki and everybody else would be crushing them.

My thought is I'm glad they reacted even if it was emotionally, it was better than not reacting at all. Now, there was a lot more to this letter, including some comments about you, which were very positive. about the podcast. But I don't want to read those right now. I don't want this to be a self-serving segment because I wanted to focus on this. I think he's right. I think if Washington hadn't traded for Wentz and we were sitting here today on this first podcast back in a week and everybody in, let's just say Carolina made the Wentz trade

and Washington was sitting here with Taylor Heineke and now focused on the draft, I think that people like me and others, that we would be critical of them. And my criticism would be they can't get anybody to play for this team. They can't, I mean, they promised this. But that criticism still exists. They had to get a hostage. Well, yes, the panic slash desperation move. But the point is, if they didn't get the hostage,

would we still be crucifying them right now? Look, you're, you're, that's true. All that's true and all that illustrates is how fucked up, how totally fucked up this team is that, that, you know, that everything, I mean, you're at the point where they're in such a corner now, they have painted themselves into such a corner that there's no way out. You know, so anything. do, whether it's nothing or a desperation move is going to receive criticism. He's absolutely

right. That doesn't make making the decision right. I mean, at least the players in the locker room love Taylor Heineke. I'm not changing what happens with Carson Wentz. I'm not changing my mind on the Wentz trade. I don't like the trade. I think it is a, you know, I think the odds are stacked against it working out. I do. Now, I've also said, and I believe that it is an upgrade over what they have and that he's got some talent and, you know, there's always a chance it could work here. I mean, not many things do work here when they don't work elsewhere, but there's still a chance. The guy is only 30 years old and he's got talent. There is a chance, but have you ever heard anyone in the league in the past five years or 10 years or 15 years, say the player, you know

where's the place you want to go to get right, Washington. That's where you want to get your career right. I'd recommend you go there. Yeah, I don't think that I don't love the trade. You know, whether they were negotiating against themselves or not, you know, and the reporting is that they weren't. I still have the same feeling I had the day that it was announced that for a guy that was probably going to be released, and maybe he would have been traded to somebody else, you usually don't take back all of a $28 million salary cap hit. And, you know, the fact that Indy basically got Matt Ryan for a third rounder, I know there's a difference in age. I understand that.

By the way, I think he's a perfect fit for Indianapolis, and I think Indianapolis has a pretty good team on paper with Matt Ryan next year. But I also agree with Patty O, the gentleman, I think it's a gentleman, because he spells it P-A-D-D-Y. I think that's the male spelling, right, of Patty. I don't even know. Is that true or not? I think he's male.

If it's not, thank you, Patty. Either way. But I think he's right that given all of the posturing and the promising and the pitching on what they were going to do at quarterback and how they were going to swing big, if they had landed nothing and they were sitting there like Carolina is right now with Sam Darnold after, you know, missing on Wilson, missing on Watson, missing on, you know, almost everybody, that we would also be killing them. And I think that that's a fair thing. So his point is, from their standpoint anyway, it's better that they acted than didn't act, even if it was out of desperation. Okay.

Now, that leads me to this, Tom. That leads me to this. Two things that I want to touch on. One is some of the stuff that Ron Rivera said last week to all of the reporters that he talked about because I haven't had a chance to weigh in on this. And two is the notion that because they traded for Wentz and gave up these picks, that they shouldn't draft a quarterback. I'll get to that secondly in the segment coming up here. But I wanted to read from John Kime's story, which I read over the weekend about –

It's a story that John wrote on ESPN.com titled How Joe Gibbs Film Study and Analytics led the Washington commanders to Carson Wentz. And he has this thing, this section in here about the Joe Gibbs meeting. You read this, right? I think we talked about this. I think you read this. He flew to Charlotte in January to visit with Gibbs. He spent the day with Gibbs, two hours of the day devoted to one topic.

finding a quarterback. Gibbs told Rivera how he would put up a wish list, numbering each quarterback in order of desire. Gibbs told him how he'd go down the list one at a time until they found their guy. They talked about what Gibbs looked for in a quarterback. Gibbs relayed how he loved Joe Thaisman's leadership, but his next two Super Bowl quarterbacks were bigger, Doug Williams and Mark Rippin. One thing we talked about was size, so they had the ability to look over the top, Rivera said. If he's shorter, you've got to make sure that they've got great movement skills. After that meeting, Kime Reich, Rivera put down the traits they wanted.

Size, athletic traits, arm talent, quick twitch throws. Then they look to see who checked the most boxes. While size was important, they didn't want to overlook someone who wasn't the desired height of 6'3. But if a quarterback didn't have the height, he had to show good pocket movement and the ability to find and create passing lanes. That led them to a list of eight quarterbacks, including Houston's Deshawn Watson. The first two were obvious, Aaron Rogers and Russell Wilson, Carson Wentz, was on this list. Kime told me that he thought two others that they reached out to at least inquire about were Matt Ryan,

this was early on when Atlanta wasn't interested, and Kirk Cousins, believe it or not, who Minnesota, you know, Kime believes told them they were not going to trade. from Minnesota. What I find interesting about this is that for Joe Gibbs, leadership has always been paramount at the quarterback position. I remember when I had him on the show prior to Rivera starting his first season or first training camp. And I asked him about Dwayne Haskins. And he said, the number one thing Ron and the staff will have to find out, and sooner rather than later, is does Dwayne Haskins have the leadership ability?

It was as close to criticism as you'll ever hear Joe publicly on anybody. Like I could sense from Joe's tone. I'll never forget this because I talked about it after that. Joe was essentially saying, I doubt that Dwayne Haskins has the leadership ability, and they need to find that out quickly because if he doesn't, he's not their guy, despite, by the way, the size, the arm strength, the physical traits.

I guess what was interesting about this is the thing that he didn't take away from Gibbs from this day because he traded for Wentz was Joe Thaisman's leadership importance. Yeah, I mean, but again, when you're desperate, you can't check every box on your list, right? It confirms the desperation, the panic after they didn't get Russell Wilson, who, by the way, doesn't fill any of the physical traits that they may have been looking for, but does have, obviously, at 5 foot 11, 6 feet, the good pocket movement and the ability to find and create passing lanes. But I just think that, you know, if you spent all day with Gibbs,

Gibbs had to tell them again, leadership, you've got to have the guy in the locker room that people connect to and people believe in. And there have been two straight examples where that, you know, regardless of what I've heard people say over and over again, it was Ursae who wanted him out. It was Ursay who wanted them out. Really? The general manager threw him under the bus publicly. The head coach apologized publicly for vouching for him.

And that's, you know, after all of the Philadelphia stuff that came out. Look, I'm not saying that... Yeah, you know... Yeah, go ahead. Look, I mean, my point, my main... defense of responding to the idea that Ursae wanted him

out is in my experience I don't remember a head coach in the history of this league who loved a quarterback like Reich supposedly loved Carson Wentz and then the owner would trade him

and then the coach would just accept it unless it was related to money I don't ever remember a situation where a head coach had his quarterback, the guy he wanted, and the owner said, I'm getting rid of him. Yeah, I can't think of any off the top of my head. No.

What are the biggest quarterback for quarterback trades in the history of the game? Not that this was one. Was Sonny Norm Sneed one of the biggest quarterback? Yes, that was a good one. That was a big one, two starters, yeah. And Norm Sneed had a decent NFL career. and obviously not the career at Sunny had. But he had a decent NFL career.

I'm trying to think if there were any others. You got Jared Gough for Matt Stafford, right? Right. You know? Don't get two starters. Yeah, I'm looking it up because I think we're missing one. I think we're missing one. I'll find it.

Something from way back when. But anyway, yeah, so that was, I tend to agree with you. I tend to agree. I think the people that are trying to rationalize in their own mind that Wentz is, you know, not as much of a risk because it was Ursae who wanted them out. I think that's a real stretch. Number two from the Kime story in particular, and it's kind of a combination of the Kime and even some of the stuff that Ben Standing got in the athletic.

which was outstanding as well. But he had a section of the column titled The Conversations. And Kime wrote, during the search, Rivera said he received a balanced scouting report on all facets of Wence. He talked to Doug Peterson and Frank Wright, two of Wents' former head coaches. Both praised Wence, extolling his work ethic and saying he wants to please people. It was very interesting Rivera said of what he heard. When you talk to certain people, talk to some coaches he's had in the past that I know well and listen to what they have to say, it was contradictory to what was happening.

Washington also felt its locker room with low-key veterans would work well with Wentz, and Rivera noticed that after the trade, one of the Colts captains, Darius Leonard, their linebacker, tweeted in support of Wentz. Rivera said the first call he received after the trade was from Reich. Frank was tremendous, Rivera said. After we made the trade, he said, you're going to love this guy. He's been a good person first and foremost. I want you to know that.

My intention was to reach out to him, but he called to congratulate me. After the trade, Rivera had one more conversation with Gibbs, who happened to be in Washington for an event, Rivera said the first thing he told Gibbs was this. We got our guy. This just kind of made me, like he also told Ben Standing, you guys have questions about him. I don't. Well, apparently they don't have questions about him because not many were asked at the press conference last week. Tell me what that means, because I saw a lot of the tweeted out,

responses I did not watch the press conference. I'm going to go back and watch it, I promise. I'm looking for something specific because we're talking with something. To me, there's only one issue that really counts in that press conference. And those are the questions about Carson Wentz's leadership, the questions of Pennsylvania,

where teammates accused him of being selfish. You know, those are the issues I'm looking for. there was a question, one of the early questions, on how he was, if he was surprised how the way things went in Indianapolis and what he wants to show here. So every time there was a question, even alluding to something went wrong in Indianapolis, it was always couched with a positive, like, what do you want to show here? And he said he was surprised by the way things went.

And then he was asked on what he thinks happened in Indianapolis. He responded, it's a great question. It's a completely fair question. And sometimes I wonder the same, to be honest. And then he goes on to give a non-specific answer. And then the next question is, on being a man of faith and how he has learned through tough times. There you go. I don't see, let me just say one thing real quickly.

I want to make sure everybody's clear on this. I'm not dismissing the possibility that he could play well here and that it might even be something that turns out to work out. I wouldn't bet on that. You know, I'm not wishy-washy straddling the fence on this. You know, if I really feel strongly one way or the other, I'll say it. like I did many years with Kirk Cousins and others. I'm not a big fan of the trade at all,

but he has talent and he's better than what they have. I also would just say, Tommy, in reading some of his responses, I thought that they were okay responses. Now, maybe your issue is more with that he wasn't pressed on some of this stuff enough? Yes. Yes, I mean, specifically, I mean, you know, teammates said you were selfish. Teammates said you lacked accountability. Yeah.

I mean, there was another question said on reports questioning his leadership. That was the question. And he said, well, for one, report to reports. And there's truth in some of all those things. If we were in this business trying to combat and argue every report, we'd run out of things to say. And then he went on to give a. nondescript answer.

The following question is how it motivates him when two teams got rid of him in a two-year span. Well. You know? I mean, every time they even backed him up against the ropes, they pulled him away and said, come back to the middle of the ring. We're a friendly bunch. Yeah. I had a big problem with it.

I'm going to go back and I'm going to watch that because I think, tone has a lot to do with it and I'll be interested in the questions too um you know back to back to the Rivera comments here this is why I bring them up first of all I said this yesterday on radio when I read this it immediately reminded me of as we do on this show often because we're both office fans um it was when Joe Bennett walked in after the acquisition of Dunder for the first day in the Scranton office. And Jim and Michael were trying to explain how they are each co-managers. Remember, you know, Jim says, I handle the day to day, and Michael handles the big

picture stuff. And Joe Bennett, played by Kathy Bates, brilliantly, by the way, said, you can't give me gravy and tell me it's jelly because gravy ain't sweet. To which Michael, by the way, says, and I had to look this one up. because it's such a great line. You know, when he says, somebody's going to have to be the manager and somebody's after going to have to go back to sales. And Michael says, well, I humbly accept the management position.

And then Jim says, well, why would you do that? He said, well, because Jim, where I come from, he says, where I come from two types of folk, those who ain't and those who are knee-high to a grasshopper, which type ain't you ain't? I mean, it's one of the great, I mean, how many great Michael Scott scenes are there, but that was hysterical. But I kept thinking like, hey, Ron, I love you. I think you're a good coach, and I've been on board with you.

But you can't tell me that you're giving me jelly when it's gravy because gravy ain't sweet. Like Frank Wright called you up to tell you what a great guy you got. Well, then why didn't he keep him? I mean, why didn't he fight for him? Why didn't he fight like hell for him? Doug Peterson called you up and they both praise. I mean, Doug Peterson was out, so it was a new group. But really, Philadelphia loved him so much that they were willing to take the biggest salary cap hit in history until the Falcons just took it with the trading of Matt Ryan.

But it's like, what's funny about this is that, like, if you go back, through the last year, right? Ron Rivera told you, hey, you know, we're building it from the inside out, block by block, inside, offensive line, defensive, we're going to get everything, then we're going to go get our quarterback. And then, you know, that was,

then like three days later, we found out they had offered a first and a third for Matt Stafford, you know, and that they had been very active talking to other teams about quarterbacks. They wanted their quarterback, but they didn't get their quarterback, so let's talk about, you know, how that wasn't the plan.

You know, we got our plan. We're building this thing inside out. Then we'll go get the quarterback. And, you know, and they got Ryan Fitzpatrick for the one year. Well, this year, we're going out to get our quarterback, and they offer a boatload. And you know what? I give them all the praise in the world for offering Seattle a boatload for Russell Wilson. But they didn't get Russell Wilson.

They panicked. They didn't want to end up where Carolina is now. and they traded for a guy with tons of baggage, and they said, we got our guy. We got our guy. And they even called us to tell us what a great guy we were getting. I mean, I don't know, man. It's like there's a lot of revisionist, you know, history. There's a lot of, you know, twists and turns.

And, you know, I don't, it's not, it's not that I, hate it because it would be hypocritical of me to say that, you know, to really crush them for it, because I've said also they're in the customer acquisition business. They've got to get people excited about this team. I mean, they lost Anheiser Bush last week while I was away. You know, that's a $3 to $4 million account on the beer beverage category. And that's a big deal for them. They have to be promoting. They've got to be marketing. They've got to create some excitement. So he's not going to come out and tell you that it's his third choice or that they were desperate. I understand that. But he's going to the lengths of like, really? Like, did you not

say to Frank Reich? Well, if he's so great, why are you trading him to us? What's going on here? What am I missing? Why am I about to overpay for a guy that you love so much, but you're running off after 12 months? Yeah, I absolutely. Kathy, Kathy Bates was perfect as Joe Bennett, wasn't she? Like you, yes, she is, like you said, and I agree. There is a chance, however small, that he could get right. And he has talent. Yeah. And, you know, those of you that have reached out to me to say,

he hasn't been working with much talent in the places he's been at. Like, 2020, it's true. I mean, the dude, you know, Greg Ward was essentially their number one receiver, you know, and he had a terrible year. I know, but they had the best running game in the league last year. Oh, come on. No, Indy had not, you know, know, they led the league in pro bowlers and they didn't even make the playoffs.

They had the best running back, certainly the second best running back behind Derek Henry in the league. You know, Jonathan Taylor was an MVP candidate. I think Michael Pittman's a very good receiver. I think Quentin Nelson is the best offensive linemen or best guard in the league. And I know that they weren't healthy a lot of the year. But it wasn't an all-star supporting cast. I'll give you that. I think it's a good coaching staff, a hell of a coaching staff.

I don't think he was without weapons, but you know, you could also point to the fact that he was 27 and 7 last year. Touchdowns over interceptions. But as, you know, we talked about last week, you know, having the guy from pro football focus on, he also was way up there in turnover worthy plays. And he also really choked big time in the biggest games of the year, the final two games of the year against the Raiders and then really against the Jazz. But, um, of course, yeah. Anyway, uh, the, the other thing that I wanted to mention real quickly about this, um,

is this notion that because they traded a second and a third, swap spots in the second, took on a $28 million salary cap hit, that they can't then draft a quarterback, you know, in the first two rounds. They can't draft a future quarterback. And I wanted to just, you know, I watched some of the Malik Willis, you know, tape, from Pro Day, his Pro Day yesterday. And, you know, he turned heads, as many of the Pro Days do, with quarterbacks. And Kenny Pickett's hand size was a little bit bigger at his Pro Day two days ago than it was at the Indy Combine.

I'll say what I said, the day of the trade. If Washington's Brass, Herney, Mayhew, Rivera, Turner, all of them, polling, all of them, if they really like one of these quarterbacks and they think one of these quarterbacks has a big time upside, a huge ceiling, they absolutely should draft the quarterback. You're basing your thought on they made this trade for Carson Wentz with the belief that they found their long-term answer at quarterback. and therefore why would they draft a quarterback? I would agree with you if they had traded for Russell Wilson, 100%. But they didn't trade for Russell Wilson. They traded for Carson Wentz.

And if they were so sure that Carson Wentz was beyond a one-year flyer, then they would have already restructured his contract to save money on this year's cap. Yes. So I think that's what they would have done. I think that if they like somebody a lot, they'll draft that somebody. And if they don't like somebody, they shouldn't. If they like somebody a lot and they don't draft him because they're worried about how poor little Carson Wentz is going to handle the competition, because apparently he was not very thrilled in Philadelphia when they drafted Jalen Hertz.

Well, then that tells you all you need to know about the guy. guy you have anyway. And I had a caller say to me this morning, Kevin, I agree with you, but they're already here. Now they've got to come up with a solution to what they have. And they've got to try to make this guy work. And if putting a young future starting quarterback in the building is a first or second rounder is going to upset him, then they shouldn't do it. Oh my gosh. There's some merit to that argument because they're already in this I understand that. That was my argument about not drafting Kirk Cousins when they drafted RG3.

At the same time, it was going to be a security issue for that particular guy. But I get that. But this guy, this guy, I mean, if Carson Went's success and failure rides on the fact that of his fear over an incoming young quarterback. And like you said, you've got the wrong guy anyway. I know, but they already made that decision. You know, now they've got to try to make it work. So you bypass the guy who you want?

I wouldn't. I would tell them to man up. I would say... You don't make one, you don't fall up a bad decision with another bad decision. Right. Although this team, that's the way they do business. Yeah. No.

I mean, did Troy Aitman get really upset when they drafted Steve Walsh in the first round of the supplemental draft? I mean, you know, the Kirk Cousins thing, you know how I felt in the moment. It was a fourth round pick. I'm like, no. In this league, you need two. And so they understand that. I certainly didn't think Kirk Cousins at that point would eventually supplant RG3, but I just was of the opinion that, you know, there's a big difference between a first rounder and a fourth rounder.

and it's not unusual when you take a quarterback in the first round and then maybe take one in a later round that year or the next year. But yeah, I would say to him you're going to have to deal with this because we believe in you. We're putting weapons around you, but we also have to protect our future and take into consideration the possibility. that, you know, I wouldn't know what to say. Other than, you know what, you're the quarterback. You've come off two situations that weren't very pleasant at the end, and we're giving you a huge opportunity here. You're the starting quarterback, earn it and keep it.

Period. Don't tell us what to do in the draft. Speaking of weapons around him, have you seen the news that the Chiefs have given Tyreek Hill permission to seek a trade? Not only that, I'm now seeing that the dolphins have traded for Tarik Hill. Oh, really? Yeah, that's coming. Okay.

Hold on. Yeah, it just, as we're recording this, it looks like the chiefs are going to deal him to Miami. me. That's really, that's, that's, that's incredible. I mean, Devante Adams got traded last week to the Raiders while I was away. That blew me away. You know, it's like, we want you, Aaron, we want you, Aaron, we want you back. And then they give them all the money. And then it's like, you're the best receiver in the game, we're trading. And I know he's reuniting with his college quarterback and the whole thing. But I am surprised at that. Here it is, Schaefter. The Chiefs are trading six-time Pro Bowl wide receiver

toreek Hill to the Dolphins for five draft picks, a 22 first round pick, a second round pick in 2022, and a fourth round pick, as well as fourth and sixth round picks in 2023. And what did Devante Adams? The Packers got back our first and a second, I think it was for Adams.

Is that, that's more than the Packers got back for? for Adams. I think it is. Wow. I know. I would take it. I think Adams is the best receiver in the league.

I do. And I think Tarique Hill is also way up there. I wonder why they're moving on from Tarik Hill. Well, they said they couldn't negotiate a long-term deal with them. Yeah. Boy, you know, the Chiefs are interesting. You know, they lose in the postseason. to Cincinnati. The year was a weird year for them. At one point early in the year, this juggernaut of a

team looked very ordinary. I made the comment that Mahomes at times looked bored. And then they put it together at the end of the year. They didn't beat a lot of really good teams. And then they lost in the postseason. They beat Buffalo in that crazy all-time playoff game. And then lost to the Bengals and Joe Burroughs in over. overtime in the AFC title game. I mean, they've won a Super Bowl, and they've lost a Super Bowl with Mahomes. And they have, you know, now with Miami's pick, where's Miami's pick? I forget where Miami's pick.

It's in the top 10, right? I think it is. And there are some receivers in this draft. So, yeah. Anyway, back to my personal opinion is that if Washington loves a quarterback, the trade for Carson Went. should not at all prevent them from drafting a Malik Willis as an example. I think he does have a very high ceiling.

I think there's a chance. I find it hard to believe that if they really like a guy, they'll pass on them. I think a lot of people believe that, and, you know, they could be just stubborn enough that they want to look like they're all in on wents, and this is the deal, but they should do what is right. Now, some people would say, no, drafting a guy that you're not going to play for two years or a year is stupid. That would be the second straight year you blew your first round pick and it was a high, you know, decently, well, last year was 19 with Jamie Davis. And you should take, you know, one of the corners or one of the receivers or even one of the offensive linemen at this point.

Some of you want them to take an inside linebacker at 11. I disagree. I think they've got to keep swinging for the high-ceiling quarterbacks until they find the answer. And if they're being honest with themselves, the chances are Carson Wentz isn't the long-term answer. That's my position. Now, again, if they don't see Malik Willis or Kenny Pickett or Matt Corral or Sam

Howell or somebody like that as a high-ceiling guy, then don't pick them. don't. I don't want him to pick a quarterback just for the sake of picking a quarterback. If they thought Jimmy Garoppolo had a higher ceiling than anybody in the draft, and they thought he had a really high ceiling, I'd rather see him spend a third on Jimmy Garapolo because that's what it looks like he's going to go for now. San Francisco is not getting any kind of big offers for them. I wouldn't do that. I'm not saying I would, but my point being, I only want high ceiling guys until they find the right guy.

And so if there's a high-ceiling guy in this draft, and he's there at 11 or in the second round when they get there, take them. First two rounds wouldn't prevent me at all from taking them. Boy, Tariq Hill dealt to the dolphins. So the dolphins who had nothing at wide receiver. I mean, you can talk about Tua not being the right guy all you want, and that may be true. but he was working with nothing offensively the last couple of years. So now they have Tariq Hill, they've got a new head coach and Mike McDaniel, one of the more interesting people out there.

They've got Will Fuller. Who else did they? They have the big Penn State tight end that I love, Gaseki. Yeah. Oh, Jalen Waddle. Obviously Waddle was the guy last year. You know, they had one guy in Waddle last year. You know, they had one guy in Waddle last year.

year. Okay. Can we talk about Kevin Willard? Yes, let's do that. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. Doesn't cost you a thing, and the thing that you guys have been doing a great job of, and it's so appreciated, is rate us and review us on Spotify and Apple specifically. Most of you are listening to this podcast on your iPhone. If you haven't rated us five stars or written a one to two sentence review, take 30 to 60 seconds and do it. It's such a major help for us on the revenue side. It's the combination of the number of people listening along with the ratings and reviews that drive the advertising opportunities for us. Several of you have written in. This from tired, tired of

via Apple podcast. I listen to the show every day. Kevin and his regular lineup of co-hosts are great and mixed things up throughout the week. I love it when he and Tom go back and forth. I'd love to buy Tom a beer. Hey, what about me? Even though I'm pretty sure he'd want nothing to do with my politics. This from DCH exceptional perspective commentary, this is not a variety show for dudes. This is deep analysis and discuss. of Washington sports. I tend to listen when something happens with Washington football when the team

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and philosophical content to fill the Library of Congress, Congress, which is what we intend to do with his sayings. Yes, my sons showed me your Twitter account. There's also... It's great. Oh, my God, there's also one that's so embarrassing. The one that's...

It might be the same person. And I appreciate, by the way, the support. I really do. But there's one Twitter account that says that is Kevin Sheehan is God. Have you seen that one? Have you seen that yet? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Oh, my God.

Please, it might be this same guy. You know what? I've never known who this was. Abby RGG via Apple Podcasts. I do appreciate, by the way, your support, and I appreciate the fact that you love the show, and I have no problem with you coming up with, you know, my scenario sayings for a Twitter account at all.

Kevin and Tom from Justin been listening to Kevin for close to 20 years. Well, I guess it is getting closer to 20 years. It's more like 17 or 18. Found the podcast right after he went off 980 for a short period of time. Pretty much the only thing I listen to now for Redskins News. Usually love Tom too, but he gets my blood boiling every time he talks about Corona and the vaccine. I watched dope sick, per your recommendation.

It was great. Amazing how Tom can't see the correlation between that show and Corona. He is blind. Thanks. Let's not weigh in on that. I don't feel like dealing with that right now. But thank you all for the reviews. Don't forget to spend just, I'm telling you, 30 to 60 seconds on Apple in particular, to rate us and review us. Five stars preferably and a one to two sentence review. Lots of stuff in here, too, that's very positive about Cooley being on the show. and I appreciate that. And some of you writing in to say how much you enjoyed Tim and Aaron last week, and that's very nice as well. So Kevin Willard is the new Maryland basketball coach. So how should I feel about that, Tommy? I think he can coach.

I mean, you could have gotten a guy who you said, well, you know, this guy can't coach. I mean, I think we've seen enough of him to think that he can coach. I think that the program, and I think the fans that I know, and you're much more plugged in than I am on this, I don't think the expectations were high to get a high profile higher. And I think that some fans have just said, well, you know what? He's a big East guy. He did a good job at Seton Hall.

And, you know, at least he knows, at least he seems to know the game. I sensed a level of malaise satisfaction that had basically started. You know, well, you know, that's our guy. I think I'm going to like Kevin Willard personally. I think you're going to like Kevin Willard personally, just a hunch. You know, he's a northeastern guy. he's during his press conference. He was on with me on radio this morning too, and he was great.

During his press conference, he said at one point, you know, I'm kind of a guy's guy. I'd love to have a beer with a lot of you. In fact, I'd like to get a beer within the next hour. And so I've heard he's an outstanding golfer, outstanding golfer. But, you know, he's a northeastern guy with, I think, a dry sense of humor, quick wit. He's a good coach. He's been a good coach. I'm just going to be really candid here.

The only thing I care about, this is the team, along with the football team, I guess, but a lot less passion than I used to be. I'm just going to be super supportive because I just want Maryland basketball to be great. And I want it to be great, and I don't care about the disagreements within the fan base over the last coach. I just want this to be the right hire. But I think I disagree with you on the expectations. I think that this hire is not the reignition of the fan base, the spark that's going to start selling season ticket packages overnight that some people were hoping for when you know, Mark and Damon decided to part ways back in December. And that's,

That's really the right way to describe it. I want to be clear on that. The right way to describe what happened in December was a mutual parting of the ways because there was great excitement, I think, on the athletic director's part and probably great relief on the coach's part that they were parting ways. Would I prefer to stick out the year? Yes, and I've said that before. I think at some point down the road, he will realize that he wishes he had been able to

to stick out the year. But that's enough on that. I don't think that when they parted ways in December that a significant part of the fan base thought Kevin Willard. I think they were thinking Nate Oates. They were thinking Eric Musselman. They were thinking Rick Petino, who, by the way, was what I was hoping for.

But that was a non-starter with the school president. They were not going to go after any coach with any kind of baggage. I think that was a mistake. I think Patino would have sold out the arena within 72 hours. I think he would have had this team in the top 20 next year and the top 10 the year after and competing for a national championship, you know, in a New York minute. I really do. But this guy, by the way, is from the Rick Petino tree.

We'll get to him at a moment. But I think that the hire is for a majority of the fan base, probably uninspiring. That doesn't mean that the school's wrong in hiring him. That doesn't mean that he's not going to be a great coach. That doesn't mean that he's not going to be the next Gary Williams. But in terms of the reaction, I think I disagree with you. I think most people back in December expected something big. Now, I think Kevin Willard has been on the short list many times.

He's considered to be a really good coach. He's won a Big East regular season title. He's won a Big East Conference title. He's got Tommy, how about this? The best record of any coach in recent years against Big Ten teams. He's got a winning record against Big Ten teams. He's won 11 times five of them on the road twice against Maryland. I think one of those games, if not both of them, were coming off final exams,

and they had been off for like 13 days. playing their first game. I know Merrill was ranked in the top 10 one of the years that they lost to Seton Hall. But that would be the way that I would kind of guess the majority of the fan base is receiving it. With that said, I think that there was so much staleness, so much ready to move on from Turgeon that there is going to be some level of excitement for Kevin Willard. But I want point this out. Kevin Willard's resume, Kevin Willard's style is very similar to Mark Turgeon's resume and style. Actually, Turgeon's resume is a lot better. You know, Willard had a losing record in the Big East when he was at Seton Hall. Now, he's taken six of his last seven teams to the tournament,

if you count 2020, which is the same way I counted Turgeon, six of the last seven. And Seton Hall was dead when Kevin Willard took the program over. He's done a terrific job there. But Turgeon's, you know, record was close to 600 in the Big Ten. He was the third winningest coach in the Big Ten while Maryland was in the Big Ten behind his own painter. He was five and five in the NCAA tournament. Kevin Willard's one in five in the NCAA tournament at Seton Hall. They got blown out last week by 27 points. Stylistically, Willard is considered to be a very good defensive coach with tough defensive teams, but offensively, not necessarily where they look as pretty.

You know, that's the same criticism of Turgeon, pace of play, you know, offense. Now, if you look at the Ken Palm numbers with Willard, there are years where he's had high pace of play and other years where he's had low pace of play. and he told me on radio this morning, look, offensively, I adapt to the talent I have. I love that answer. My criticism of Mark was twofold. One, I didn't think he scheduled a hard enough in the non-conference,

which, by the way, Willard does. You know, I think Maryland's going to play in Maui. They're going to play, you know, in the Bahamas and Atlantis. They're going to play in some of these big holiday tournaments, which, you know, Turgeon didn't necessarily schedule. I mean, Willard's really been a big time. time non-conference scheduler, playing everybody anywhere, by the way. That's what Gary did.

So that'll be good to see. But, you know, stylistically, you know, they are probably pretty similar in the way they coach. I think you're right. I think you're right. But, I mean, look, Turgeon had the problem of following Gary. you know and he wasn't Gary in a lot of ways look I bet you at one point every every Maryland fan in the DMV has had a beer with Gary

I'm thinking that hasn't happened with Turgent Oh I think more people than you would know have had a beer with Mark Mark's a Mark is actually And I know people have said oh you're friends with him It's not like I'm friends friends friends with him We're friends I like Mark I like the family a lot

I think he's a really good guy, and he's got a very good sense of humor. And you absolutely can grab a beer or a Tito's and soda with Mark. 100%. But I know what you're saying. You know, is Mark going to be at Bentley's after the game for three hours? Probably not. And Gary was in his early years. So I just think it was a tough act to follow for Chargent.

and there's a lot more distance now. That'll make it easier for Kevin Willard. Willard is his name. That's what I meant. I know. I think that's a good point. I think it's like, you know, it's hard to follow. You know, it's pretty amazing, isn't it, that Maryland's had two Hall of Fame basketball coaches.

Lefty and Gary are in the basketball Hall of Fame, not the college basketball Hall of Fame, the Hall of Fame. Yes. And I liked, you know, he was on with me this morning. I watched his press conference. I liked a lot of what he said. You know, he talked about Maryland being a top 10 job. There are two other things I didn't mention.

Number one, they're paying him. You know, Turgeon's compensation was 28th in the country. Middle of the pack in the Big Ten. Maryland stepped up for the first time in a while, and they weren't going to get a guy like Willard without stepping up. You know, he's going to average over $4 million per year. He is, you know, near the top of the Big Ten, top 15 to top 20 nationally in compensation. If you want to be a top 10 job, which is what he said this is, and I think in many ways it is, not a top 10 program right now.

The distinction we've made before, you know, it's been a top 10 to 15, top 20-ish job, not program, although it's been top 25, tournament year in and year out, even under Turgeon, who's been ranked pretty high at various times during his time in College Park. But you got to pay the job. You got to build the practice facility, which it was announced yesterday that they're going to break ground, you know, I think next year on the new practice facility. They raised the 40 million bucks to build that. They need that. They haven't had that. They've been one of the only Power 5 conference teams not to have it. And the other comment that I wanted to make is, you know, I'll tell you what, these search firms that are getting these huge fees from college athletic departments for helping them find coaches, that's a damn good business. Because anybody would have had Kevin Willard on the list day one.

I know. That's a good business to get into, absolutely. But I think I'm going to like them. Totally supportive. of I just want it to work. It's a big deal for Maryland basketball to be good. I think it's good for the area. We didn't have a college basketball team in the area in the NCAA tournament this year. You know, it's always been good for the area when, you know, Maryland and Georgetown in particular have been, you know, powerhouses in college basketball because we haven't had it a lot with the pro team in town.

over the years. Not enough of it, that's for sure. One last thing to finish up with when we come back, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the podcast brought to you by MyBooky. Go to mybooky.orgie. Go to mybooky.orgie.com. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and they'll match your first deposit, dollar for dollar, all the way up to $1,000. They've got everything you need for the Sweet 16 and the rest of the March Madness. games, and all of the futures opportunities for the NFL are available. My bookie, use my promo code, Kevin D.C. By the way, the money on the extension with Miami for Tareke Hill is coming in.

Four-year extension worth $120 million with $72.2 million guaranteed. I think I can do the math on four years and $120 million. $120 million, that's $30 million a year for a wide receiver. That is unbelievable. Unbelievable. That really is. You know, it's like we... You know what?

There's no lack of money in this league right now, is there? Imagine if there wasn't a salary cap. Devante Adams' deal, I think it was for $28 million a year, but the... You know, it's funny, you get this deal with a guy with a history of domestic issues. You get the Deshawn Watson trade, which I have not talked about after being out last week, to Cleveland for a deal worth $230 million of it with more guaranteed money than any deal in the history of the league. Not only that, a contract that protected him in year one against any kind of suspension with a low base salary of like a million bucks, which is amazing.

I mean, I was blown away that it ended up being Cleveland. The compensation was, I think, kind of right where we thought it would be, maybe a little bit less, but it was the extension that completely blew everybody away. I mean, $230 million for Deshawn Watson with 22 civil lawsuits. It's like the last two major deals, Watson and Hill, with their background, Hill with a legitimate background. Obviously, the Watson stuff, you know, he has not been charged with anything. He hasn't been convicted of anything, and not one of these 22 civil cases have been settled yet. So, you know, we'll see on that. But still, big risk on that thing.

What did you think of the Deshaun Watson trade? Look, I think that any team that took on to Sean Watson is going to take a hit. It may be less for some than for others business-wise. I think you're going to turn off a segment of your fan base. It may be a small segment, but I think you have to acknowledge that you're going to turn them off. And success on the field will obviously diminish that if not make it disappear. I thought Washington was the one team that couldn't get into Deshawn Watson business. I think that this franchise, even though they're incapable of it,

needs to do everything they can to repair their reputation, even though that's an impossible task. Yeah, except they were interested in Deshaun Watson. I know. I know. I know they were. You know, on some level, once they knew that Deshawn Watson wasn't a possibility, I wonder if there would have been some benefit on their, you know, you probably would have found out that they had expressed interest anyway, and then they would have looked like, you know, they would have looked like liars.

But on some level, it probably would have benefited them. I mean, the Giants essentially did that. You know, the Marys said no interest in Deshawn Watson for a team like Washington. And given their situation, maybe they should have come out when they knew they had no chance of getting Deshawn Watson and saying, yeah, we're not interested in Deshawn Watson. You're right. There might have been some benefit to that. Maybe. Although they could have been busted on that with a report that said Washington reached out to Houston to find out whether or not Deshawn Watson would be interested in coming to Washington and waving his no trade clause for Washington.

Who knows? you know, that's one of those where you should have anticipated that he was never going to come here in the first place and never reached out to Houston and then just said, no, we are not going to trade for a player with this kind of civil lawsuit, you know, 22 civil lawsuits with sexual misconduct, sexual assault claims hanging around. It's just not who we are anymore. You know, something like that may have benefited them. I don't know. you know what is best for them is to talk very little about anything losing that Anheiser Bush thing Tommy is a big deal I had somebody text me last week the story somebody who really understands this stuff that said this is a big loss like this is the big one you know your beer beverage category people and they had an exclusive

this was a big loss. You know, I don't know where they are specifically on the business side, season ticket packages, sponsorships. I know it's not great. You know, I've had somebody call me and tell me that things are up from where they've been, but you compare it to a pandemic, you know, season of 2020. And the truth is, going into 2021, that entire offseason, nobody knew for sure. if there were going to be, you know, fans at games. So every number for 2022 is going to be up compared to 2020 and 2021, you know,

but it's still, you're still talking about bottom of the barrel in terms of season ticket holders in the league. And the corporate sponsor stuff is a big deal. But anyway, I wanted to ask you about the baseball thing that I read this morning about the players, Association and the league agreeing to the rule tweaks that they, you know, that they're going to become permanent, the expansion of rosters, the placement of an automatic runner on second base during extra innings, and pitchers remaining in the lineup, this is the Otani rule, pitchers remaining in the lineup after they've been replaced on the mound. So they can still bat if they were replaced as a pitcher. What do you think of this? I don't, I don't

care about the latter or the former. I just think it's way too gimmicky, this runner on second base in the beginning of extra innings to try to limit somehow the super long games. I think it's disappointing that the players want it, you know? I mean, it kind of illustrates that, you know, for all their talk about protecting the game and caring about the game, I mean, and it's human nature. ultimately what they care about is themselves. And that's fine.

But don't go, don't talk about during the negotiations, how you're trying to protect the game from what the owners are doing, and then tell everybody that and then tell the owners that you want this rule in place where you have a runner started on second, so you don't have to play more than nine-in-in-game. You know, that's disappointing. Well, you mean, well, they started in the 10th inning. Right, 10th inning.

Yeah, well, more than 9 inning games. That would be the 10th inning. I mean, was there data that, because they've played with that in the regular season here the last two years, is there data that says that the length of games of extra inning games is much shorter with the runner that starts in second versus not? If both teams get that opportunity, it just seems to me that it wouldn't have changed the actual length of the game as much, meaning you know, you're not going to end up with kind of this overusage of

pitchers in particular in a long game. If there's data out there, I'm not aware of it. Okay. And I think most fans at this point, just say, just shut up and play. Just play, you know? Yeah. I mean, I haven't had a full season of, you know,

a worthy season that people have been able to go to the ballpark for every game, you know, without worrying about limited attendance and things like that in two years now. They just want to see the game. Right. Agreed. And you know, the thing is, I mean, to me, the lack of debate or passion about the DH being now in the National League kind of indicated to me that, you know, know, the same passion for baseball isn't there anymore. I think it's still a healthy, but trust me, I still think it's far healthier

or sport than most of its critics think it is. Okay. But in terms of the kind of thing where D.Hs, I remember growing up, and the argument about the D.H., you know, was something where people would get in, demon debates about, in bars and stuff like that. I think people are just kind of, you know, tired of it and just want to see the baseball. I mean, it's not as passionate as it used to be. So people are not going to get worked up about pretty much anything.

You think the Nats are going to be good this year, don't you? Well, you know what? That was before the Phillies signed Nick Costellano and Castellano and the Brave sign Kelsey Jansen. Yeah, look, they'd have to have a lot of things where I go right, go right pitching-wise for that to be good. I think they'll score some runs. I think they'll have a good offense, okay. But right now they don't really have a third basement of no part of Keyboom is out with an elbow injury.

He won't begin to be able to begin to get the starter season. He got McKeel Franco, who was a cast off. last time we saw him with the Orioles two years ago. He was terrible. So they don't really have a third basement. And they would need Strasbourg and Corbin to be normal. Not to be exceptional, just to be normal for them to compete. And right now, Strasbourg may not even be ready for the start of the season.

Last thing on the show today. Did I tell you, I don't know, a few months back, I kind of remember us having this conversation, and I just want to know if we had this conversation or not, that I was eating animal crackers on one of the days before our podcast, and then we talked about it on the podcast, I think. Do you remember that or not? Yes. I remember that. Absolutely. Okay, so I'm not dreaming that that was a conversation that we had. The only reason I bring it up is because I'm staring at a box of animal crackers that I'm going to eat when this show is over today. You know what happened is I went to Safeway?

And this happened before. And every once in a while in sort of that point of sale impulse purchase area of a supermarket, you know, in the checkout lanes. and these are now in the self-checkout lanes. There was a big old barrel of animal crackers, and as I was checking out, I saw it, and I just turned and grabbed a box and just scanned it and threw it into the bag

with everything else that I had. And I'm looking forward to eating these animal crackers. So I just wanted to... Well, you know what? I hope Animal Crackers is listening and sends you a bunch of boxes. That would be great. I mean, you know, they're not...

I guess I'm looking at this seven grams of sugar, but they're two servings in each thing. So 14 grams of sugar. They're not good for you, but what is it about animal crackers that every time I see them, I want to buy them? They're kind of good. I don't know.

Yeah. It was never one of my favorites when I was a kid, but I liked them, but not one of my favorites. We did do this on the show. Now I'm remembering because it morphed into a lot. long conversation about cookies in general. And in fact, you told me what your favorite cookie was, and I was not familiar with what your favorite cookie was, and people were shocked that I had never heard of your favorite

cookie. Will you tell me what it was again? Lorna Dunes. Lorna Dunes. Yeah. And so now when I see them in the cookie aisle, I'm, I always. look at them and I'm like, huh, because they're more kind of a shortbread kind of a cookie. And I'd never had heard of them before, never had heard of them before. But now when I see them,

and I think when I walked through a supermarket and saw them after that conversation a few months back, I said, oh, there's Tom's cookie, the Lorna Dunes. Yeah. They're kind of boring. Why, you buy me a box? They're kind of boring, aren't they? You walked by, you saw them, you said, there's Tom's cookies. You didn't see. say, let me buy him a box and I'll send it to them.

Well, if you're coming in, I might do that. I might do that. You know, I might have to, you know, I'm due for a visit. You are due for a visit. If you visit, that means we get lunch afterwards. And we do it on like a Friday. So if we have lunch afterwards, we can start drinking and not have to worry about work the next morning. All right, we're done for the day.

We're back. Tom, you'll be back Friday of this week, unless you tell me you can't do Friday. I can't do Friday. I'll be back tomorrow. You'll be back tomorrow, then. There you go. Tom, he'll be with me tomorrow. I'll have somebody else on Friday. Have a great day.