The Kevin Sheehan Show - WFT: Define a Successful Season

Episode Date: July 22, 2021

Kevin and Thom talked Tarantino movies to start and then followed up on ESPN Sam Acho's declaration that Washington is Tampa Bay's biggest challenger in the NFC. The boys debated how a successful 2021 WFT season should be defined in the 2nd segment before Kevin scolded Thom for his Naomi Osaka tweet to finish up the show. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. I'm here. Tommy is here. Dedicated to his appearances on this podcast twice a week.

He is calling in from Bethany Beach. Sea Colony West, as they used to call it way back in the day. Sea Colony across the street with his family, including his granddaughter. And you're on vacation. And I just asked Tommy before the podcast started, I said, what do you got for me today? And what did you say? I said, Kevin, I'm on vacation. I got nothing for you.

Yeah, which is sort of what you say most days. Which isn't much more than what I usually have for you, right? Yeah, exactly. So I wanted to just, we're going to get to a follow-up conversation on what this dude, Sam Acho from ESPN said, because he doubled down a little bit, not really doubled down, but he was back on Mike Greenberg. show this morning with more favorable things to say about the Washington football team. So we'll have a lot of a Washington football conversation today. As the NBA season has ended, soccer is no longer being played. I guess it is being played at the Olympics, and there's basketball being played at the Olympics.

But we will focus from now until the opening of the season on football, primarily the Nats lost last night. That's a shame they had won three in a row. I wanted to start with this, Tommy. Last night, I was just flipping around the channels, and I landed on once upon a time in Hollywood, Tarantino's movie that came out in 2019. And I remember our conversation. I saw it literally, I think, the day or, you know, within the first few days after it came out. And I really liked it. And I remember a lot of the feedback from a lot of the people that were listening was, oh, my God, it was too long.

It was too slow. there wasn't the typical Tarantino violence in it and, you know, until the end. And a lot of people didn't like it. It's sort of a polar. There was a polarizing response, I think, to once upon a time in Hollywood. A movie you've seen several times. Anyway, last night I was, I think it's probably like the fifth or sixth time that I've watched it now. And I remember saying, I think it's going to be one of those movies, like a lot of Tarantino movies.

Inglorious Bastards being, for me, the perfect example of this, that the more you watch it, the more you like it. Inglorious Bastards is number one for me. There's no time that it's on TV that I won't sit there and watch it. I think it's brilliant, and I didn't think so initially. I liked it, but it's my now favorite, and I would probably put Pulp Fiction or Reservoir Dogs, you know, sort of tied in that two and three range. but Tommy last night I was watching once upon a time in Hollywood and it just keeps getting better and better and better I was sitting there watching this movie

and laughing so hard the final 30 minutes of that movie is so brilliant it's so brilliantly funny forget about the fact that he rewrites history on the Sharon Tate murdered and all that everybody else who got murdered DiCaprio and Brad Pitt's performances in that movie were phenomenal leading up to that. But I was laughing so hard, my wife came in and said, what are you doing? And I said, every time I watch this movie, it gets better and better. In the final 30 minutes of this movie, it's brilliant.

It's a long movie. I understand why some people think it's too long, and it's not typical of the Tarantino movies, which are packed with, you know, more violence. But I love that movie, and that movie now on the Tarantino list has moved into my top four, definitely, behind Inglorious Bastards Pulp Fiction Reservoir Dogs. It's right there. I think Django's phenomenal, too. But I'm curious because I wanted to talk to you about this, because I forget what your initial reaction to the movie was. And I know you've watched it more than once as well.

Well, I think it was a lot like you. I liked it when I first saw it. I didn't rank it near the top. I've watched it twice since then, and like you, I've enjoyed it more and more as I've watched it. I think it gets better and better with each feeling. I don't think I had a laughing fit like you did in the last 30 minutes. But I really enjoy it. I don't think it's in my top three.

of Tarantino movies. I mean, mine would be, still remains Jackie Brown. Yeah, you love Jackie Brown. Yeah, Pulp Fiction and Kill Bill, Volume 2. Yeah, you love the Kill Bill and the Jackie Brown movies, and I think they're okay. But let me just tell you that the scene that I, after it was over, I rewound it and watch this scene over and over again.

and I think it's my favorite scene from the movie is before the violent ending. And for those that haven't seen it, you know, we're not doing spoiler alerts on a podcast. You can fast forward if you want. But before the incredible ending with, you know, Brad Pitt, Cliff Booth on Acid, as the Manson family members who are attempting to kill Sharon Tate and Tarantino rewrites the whole ending of that, which is so, it's so creative. Anyway, but my favorite scene that I just kept, I watched it probably three or four more times is Rick Dalton,

Leonardo DiCaprio, is Rick Dalton, when the Manson family killers drive up into the neighborhood for the first time in the car with the loud muffler, and they're parked in front of the house, and he's in the kitchen whipping up a batch of frozen whiskey sours, smoking a cigarette in underwear and like a robe that only comes down basically to his waist. And he hears the noise and he walks out and the dialogue of him ripping into these hippies and telling him to get that hell out of his neighborhood is so, so funny.

And he's just so good in that role and in that movie. I mean, there are a lot of scenes in that movie where DiCaprio just, kills it. I mean, he really does. You know, in the part that he has in the movie and the western, you know, that little dialogue between him and the young girl when they're sitting there reading their books. That's brilliant. Him going back to his trailer after he fucks up the scene originally, that scene is brilliant. But that whole dialogue between him and Tex and the other two, not squeaky from, she wasn't there. The other two, which are, by the way, you know, representing real people who ultimately did kill Sharon Tate and all of those other people in

1969 in Roman Polanski's house. He was on vacation. But that dialogue between all of them back and forth was really, it was just hysterical. I will, I'll see if I can, I'm sure it's available on YouTube. At the very end of the podcast, I'll have, I'll have us trail out with, with, you know, part of that scene. I guess we're allowed to play that scene. You know, just a cut of it. But it's, he's great. You know, DiCaprio, don't you think, like,

I mean, what has he ever done that sucks? I don't have his whole... I can't think of anything. I really can't think of anything. You know, I don't know about, you know, the FBI movie he made about Hoover. Right. That was directed by Clint Eastwood.

Yeah. wasn't particularly good. Yeah. I don't know if it was his fault or anything like that. But, yeah, I mean, I like almost everything he does. And Brad Pitt. I like almost everything Brad Pitt's done. Oh, my God.

So good. So good. And he... Have you ever seen the Cohn movie Burn after reading? No. Oh, my God. You've got to watch this. It's one of the cones of the funniest movies.

What's... Brad Pitt is in it. Wait, what's the name of the movie again? Burn after reading, I think. I don't think I've seen that. Oh, you got to watch it. It's a Cohn Brothers movie? Yes, yes.

It's great. A lot of Washington throughout the whole movie. It's filmed the entire thing. It's filled in D.C. Who's in it? John Malkovich, Brad Pitt, Francis McDormon, you know, one of the Cone Brothers' wife. Yeah.

J.K. Simmons is in it. It's really good. You'll laugh how loud hysterically. I'll, I'll, uh, that's, I'm writing it down right now. Burn after reading. Burn. I think it's burn after reading or burn. Hold on.

I'm looking it up. It is burn after reading. Yeah. It's very good. 2008. George Clooney is. Yeah. Clooney, Francis McDormin, Malcovich, Tilda Swinton, Brad Pitt.

Yeah. Um, pretty. Pitt did win for supporting actor for once upon a time in Hollywood, right? I think he did. It was nominated for a bunch of stuff. It didn't win a lot if I remember correctly. I'm trying to look it up right now, but I think Pitt did win for supporting actor.

Now, Tarantino says he's not making any more movies, right? Yeah, that was supposed to be the last one, 10, right? But you don't believe that, do you? I hope not. He was on something recently that I watched. God, he is an odd guy, you know? Yeah, he is. But obviously...

You've seen Desperado, haven't you? Yeah, I've seen Desperado. Yeah, with his little bit Desperado, that's pretty funny. Well, he makes cameos in all of his other movies, too. But, but... Yeah. Yeah, so the... So, the Pitt won for Best Supporting Actor.

That was the only Academy Award, the only Oscar that the movie won. Actually, best production design. But I'm talking about the big ones. It was nominated for best movie, best director, best actor, DeCaprio, best original screenplay, best supporting actor, and Pitt was the only one that won that year. By the way, those Academy Awards were held February 9th, 2020.

One of the last of the normal days, Tommy. Because I went and saw that movie in the theater. And I guess probably I saw it only a couple of months before that. I forget when it actually debuted. Well, I can't remember the last time I was in a movie theater. Was that the last one for you? I don't know. I can't remember.

But, you know, the movie came out in 2019, but I think late 2019. So it could have been. It very easily could have been. But anyway, the point is his movies typically just get better. better and better as you watch them more and more. Like, to me, the, again, and glorious bastards, just when it's on, I watch it. If that movie is on and there are other great movies on, you know, few good men, Shawshank, all the, all the regulars that are always on.

Gladiator. Gladiator. God, I love Gladiator. I will, see, you like Gladiator, right? Yes. Yeah, but, you know, you won't watch Game of Thrones. There's no dragons and gladiators. No, there aren't.

Come on. There aren't. Django gets better every time you watch it. The hateful eight, which most people can't stand, that gets better every time you watch it. I don't know about that. I'm not willing to make that leave. Well, it's better. I'm not willing to invest the time to watch it again.

I thought it was very selfish. all his movies are self-indulgent. But this one really was over the top. Right. All right. Well, at the end of the podcast, I'll see if we can't play a cut of the scene that I was referring to that I just love. And then all of the, you know, then the break in and then the violence. And it's so over the top. And the dialogue between Pitt and the three of them in the house.

And when the one chick who's had her face basically, you know, bit off by the dog when she breaks through the glass and ends up in the pool as he's out there in the pool with his headphones on. It's hysterical. And then, of course, he goes to the blow torch, which is the flame thrower. The flame thrower. Oh, my God. Which was from some show he did, which is what Sharon Tait and her house guests remembered. See, even that dialogue at the very end of the movie, you know, here he is Sharon Tate's neighbor.

and they don't really know each other, you know? And she goes, oh, our neighbor, Rick Dalton, hey Rick, and then they invite him up to the house to hang out, and he seems so surprised. And let me point out, which is also a staple of Tarantino movies, great soundtrack. Great soundtrack. Always.

Great soundtrack, which is always the case in his movies. That it is. In that movie, I'm trying to think. Well, I'm going to pull it up just so. I mean, because there's a lot of, you know, Sharon Tate, you know, with Paul Revere and the Raiders. You know, they play a lot of those songs on. You know, by the way, the other great thing about that movie, and this is going to be more for you than for me, is just the things that tell you that it's 1969. You know, the Ice Cube.

You're like, when's a lot? Do they even make ice cube trays anymore? I don't know that they do, but I certainly am old enough to remember ice cube trays. Yeah. Metal ice cube trays. Metal ice cube trays. Not plastic ones. Metal ones.

With the lever that you pull that lifts them up out of their spots. Yeah. And what about the scene where he gets into the fight with Bruce Lee? Oh, that's it. Oh, it's so good. And there's been a lot written about that. About what? About the Bruce Lee scene?

Yeah, because a lot of Bruce Lee fans are upset because it made him look bad. Well, I mean, Bruce Lee claimed that he could basically kill Cassius Clay. And that's what started the argument. Yeah. How about when he... And apparently, that was based on a real, I guess, a real tension between the stuntman

that the character, the Brad Pitt characters based on who I think was on the Green Hornet set with Bruce Lee and worked with Bruce Lee on that. There were some tension there. So I don't know if a fight ever took place

between the two, but there were some bases on that. I thought that was very interesting. Very inside Hollywood stuff. I also love the scene when Cliff Booth, you know, goes to the Spawn Ranch,

you know, the Manson Ranch and that they've taken over, which by the way, if I recall, and you may, you may say that I'm off on this and maybe I'm just thinking of something else, which happens a lot. But that Spawn Ranch was real. And that

was really where the Manson family you know, hung out and lived. And the people that say I guess that there are a lot of scenes in Helter Skelter, which sort of refer to this or even show it. And they say that Tarantino nailed it. Like it's almost a replica of what that ranch looked like. And that scene, such a great scene, because it includes Squeaky Fromm,

who later would attempt to assassinate Gerald Ford, the president in 1974 or 75, Sarah Jane Moore also attempted. Remember, Ford had two... Good for you. Yeah, well, I remember that. Good for you. I remember that. Two women. Two women. I tried to kill the president within almost a year of each other. And they both missed on their shots. Yes. Yes. And they were both Manson family members. I mean, Squeaky was. So was Sarah Jane Moore, right, or not? I don't think Sarah Jane Moore was.

Oh, okay. Squeaky was definitely. Yeah. Lynette Squeaky Fromm. I mean, you tell people that, yeah, at one time, there were two women that tried to kill the president, and it was like in the 70s, and they look at you like you got two heads sometimes. Right, and look, those were sort of benign days compared to like the six or seven years that preceded them. The Nixon years in 1968 and half of our cities on fire, that's why sometimes when I hear people about the last four or five years, look, we have a culture clash going on right now and maybe a lot more.

I don't want to get into that conversation. But when people say that this is the worst it's ever been in the history, well, we did have a civil war in this country. And in 1968, as I've mentioned many times, more than half of our cities were literally burning to the ground. So it can be worse. But they say that they said that Tarantino nailed. the Spawn Ranch. And that's such a great scene. And by the way, Tex, who comes in on his horse a little bit too late, but ends up in the final scene of the movie, he was, that's, all those people were real Manson family members.

I'm not saying the people who play, I'm saying the actors played real Manson family members. God. Yeah, no, I mean, it was definitely once upon a time in Hollywood. It was a fable. It was a fable about once upon a time in Hollywood. It was great. Squeaky Fromm is played in that movie by Dakota Fanning. And her dialogue in that movie when Brad Pitt walks in looking for his old buddy, that dialogue's hysterical, you know, between the two of them. And then she finally says, go ahead, go back and see him.

He's exhausted, though, because I, you know, she says, you know, I blanked him all morning long. And that was Bruce Stern, wasn't it? Wasn't that Bruce Stern? Yeah, it was Bruce Stern. It was who played, was it George? It was George. My old friend George Spine. Sounds like George, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, there are, I mean, there are a lot of people, you know, well, Margot Robbie is, I mean, my God, as Sharon Tate. And then Tim, Tim Oliphant is in that movie, you know, and he obviously, for us, famously in the office as Pam's old love interest in the competitive salesman for Jim and Dwight in a couple of episodes. By the way, that is a great episode that he's in in the office, is, you know, playing Danny Cordray, right? Cordray. Yes. When they show up for a sales call and Danny's sitting there in the waiting room when Dwight and Jim walk in and they call for Michael.

Michael's in the conference room and he's like, you know, he says something like, oh, so you're calling for the old master to come in and close the sale. And then there are three of them and one of Danny. They set up the sting. And then they set up the sting. Yeah, they sit Meredith in there. Oh yeah, that's pretty funny. Yeah, they send Meredith.

They send Oscar in there and Oscar falls in love with them. Yeah, that's pretty funny. That was a good episode. And then the whole dialogue in one of the next shows, I don't think it was that one with, you know, Pam having dated him on two or three dates and them trying to find out why he never called her back. That's funny. Okay.

All right. So yesterday, you're, you probably. don't even know this. But this guy, Sam Acho, you know him? You don't know him? I didn't know him until I saw this. Look, I answered your Twitter poll from your show today. Oh, okay. Well, I did talk about this on the podcast. I did talk about this on the podcast yesterday. Sam Acho basically said on the Mike Greenberg get up show yesterday morning that he believes that Washington is the biggest challenge to Tampa Bay in the NFC. And I did put out a Twitter poll, which you can find at Kevin Sheen, D.C., you know, giving three

potential answers as a reaction. A, he's out of his mind. B, it's not that far-fetched, and C, he's right. Well, 48.7% of you think what I think, which is he's out of his mind. 41.6% of you say it's not that far-fetched, and 9.7% of you so far say that he's right. Well, he was back on Greenberg's show this morning, and they were having an NFC East conversation, and he picked Washington. Well, you have to. If you've got him as the second best team in the NFC, you pick Washington. And then Booger McFarlane picked Washington to win the NFC East. And the only other person, Kimberly Martin on the show, picked the Cowboys to win the NFC.

Louis Riddick remember, you know, just a few weeks ago said Washington is sort of a giant, a sleeping giant in the NFC. I think there is definitely this national NFL pundit analyst love fest going on right now with the Washington football team. I think a lot of our fans feel that way. And I think, you know, even some local media people feel that way. I pointed out yesterday, Tommy, and I do want your reaction. I pointed out yesterday, there's a huge disparity between some of the analysts and what Vegas thinks. You know, Vegas has them as, you know, the eighth, ninth, tenth, tenth best team in the NFC in terms of odds of winning the NFC championship. You know, they have a lot of teams.

I mean, if you go to MyBooky right now, mybooky.orgie. and use my bonus code. You will get a deposit matched halfway up to $1,000, but you can check this out right now. I'm pulling it up as we speak. The NFC Championship odds, there are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 teams with better odds than Washington. Minnesota has the same odds as Washington, and the bears and the giants aren't that far off. But there's a huge difference between what the guys in the desert, the odds makers think, and what a lot of the national pundits think. And I'm with the odds makers.

I just, I don't think that they are, I mean, the second best in the NFC is a joke. But I think they're more in that, you know, 7, 8, 9 range of teams in the NFC. And by the way, if you're the seventh best team in the NFC, you might be in the playoffs. But I just don't see it. What do you see? I understand the intrigue because of what Ryan Fitzpatrick talked about, the potential weapons. The intrigue is all about how they think people who really haven't performed are going to perform. I mean, it's not like the Cowboys, where you've got Amari Cooper and Ezekiel Elliott with a long resume of, you know, success in the league.

I mean, basically, if you're picking Washington, you're picking that Antonio Gibson, who showed a lot last year, is going to have a breakout year. Territ Coren has shown a lot already, and I understand legitimate, you know, banking on him. But the Western Western Wide Receiver Corps is all basically conjecture as to how they'll perform. And then you've got all this investment in the quarterback having his third straight, you know, best season of his career at the age of what, 39? you know, so I look, I understand how you can project, you know, based on that, and you combine that with a defense that, you know, that seems to be, you know, one of the best in a league, but still gave up 500 yards to Tampa in the, you know,

in their playoff game last year. I understand the leap of faith. Don't you understand it? Well, not the Sam Acho leap of faith. I don't know. I guess not that. Yeah, I don't. I mean, there are degrees of, you know, sort of hype.

Ocho is essentially saying they're going to win 13, 14 games this year. No, they're not. I mean, I say no, they're not like I know. I mean, it's the NFL. Anything can happen. But I don't expect that to happen. I think that, you know, I said this yesterday, Tommy, on the podcast. I think if you are a serious, you know, evaluator of the NFL and you're really looking at this,

if you are really optimistic about Washington, then you should be optimistic because of their offseason. And you have to be optimistic about Ryan Fitzpatrick. That's a given. If you have, you know, if you have a belief that Washington's going to win 10 or more games and be in the postseason and win a game, and win a game. You know, let's just take that as, you know, not overly, that's not a massive reach. 13, 14 games and in the NFC championship game against Tampa with a chance to go to the Super Bowl is a major leap of faith.

Ten wins, winning the division and winning a playoff game, it's not a massive jump after last year. But if you believe that, it has to be, it has to be because you're a believer in Ryan Fitzpethep. Patrick, and you think they did a really good job in the offseason, because as I said yesterday on the podcast, this team was an average team last year. It was seven and nine. If the Cowboys didn't lose Dak Prescott and had gone 10 and six and won the division, and by the way, one of the two games that played against Washington, so Washington finished six and 10, but they were obviously better than they were the year before. And we saw a lot of hope in the deep. defense and Terry McClorn and Antonio Gibson, we wouldn't be talking the way we're talking

or people who are talking that way wouldn't be talking that way. It was the fact that they wanted division against a very watered down weakened schedule in a terrible division. You know, an all-time worst division at seven and nine. There's no chance that anybody would be picking Washington off of their season last year. if Dallas had lost Dak Prescott. If they hadn't lost Dak Prescott, excuse me. If Dak Prescott plays the Cowboys win the division, Washington, let's just say they are a seven and nine or whatever.

Nobody's talking the way they're talking. It's that they won the division, they played in a playoff game, there is this fantasy that somehow they were Tampa Bay's stiffest competition on the way to the Super Bowl, which is not true. New Orleans was a tougher game for Tampa. and certainly Green Bay was in the NFC championship game. They were tied with New Orleans in the fourth quarter, and Green Bay had a chance to tie that game late.

Washington allowed 507 yards to Tampa Bay. And the quarterback that played in that game isn't the starting quarterback. So if you thought, oh, wow, with Taylor Heineke, they really pushed him. Well, he's not the quarterback, and he's not going to be the quarterback. So I guess my point would be, if I were out, they're optimistic like Sam Acho and Lewis Riddick and others. I would say they were an improved

football team last year with a really good young nucleus on defense in particular and they had a killer off season. They added William Jackson the third to a need position. They drafted their middle linebacker. They added receiver help

and they revamped their offensive line and they got a quarterback who's coming off the two best years of his career and the quarterback play is going to be significantly better, which, by the way, I do agree with that. I agree that the quarterback play, it can't be any worse. And the offense, it'd be hard for it to be much worse than it was last year.

But I'll say what I said yesterday and let you respond. I think this is going to be a team that we watch and feel like it's improved, but they may only win one more game than they won last year. I think that's right. I don't have a lot of faith in Ryan Fitzpatrick. I think the odds are greater that he falls off the age cliff this year as opposed to having his third straight best season of his career. And if you don't believe in the quarterback, then there's not a whole lot left to go with right now. then you're back to where you were last year in terms of basically quarterback play.

So, I mean, if it all starts with Ryan Fitzpatrick, and I think it does, I don't have this same optimism. And most of these people who have this optimism are players, you know, are former players. Sam, what is Sam Arro? Sam, Sam, Mancho. I didn't know who he was until I looked him up. He's a former player. Yes, he's a former player.

Well, there you go. Of course. You know, players are never going to think that a guy's too old to compete. It's in their nature. But I think that the – I think if you put the Vegas odds that a 39-year-old quarterback is going to have another career year, I think the odds are against that. So that's what I'm going with. 38.

38, right? Okay, 38. So without that... They'll turn 39 during the season, you're right. They'll be lucky to win one more game. And, you know, we've mentioned this before. They have, and I'm just not a schedule guy, but I am this year, because I look at the schedule of quarterbacks,

and I think it's got to be close to unprecedented in terms of the offenses and the quarterbacks on their schedule, but it could certainly work out that they play the Chiefs without Mahomes, the Packers without Rogers, the Bucks without Brady, the Seahawks without Wilson, the Cowboys without Prescott, the Bills without Josh Allen, the Chargers without Justin Herbert, the Falcons without Matt Ryan. I mean, just so you know people out there, there are lots of, you know, sites, and I think Draft Kings did this,

some other places did it where they basically mapped out the whole NFL season, excuse me, the whole NFL season, and put point spreads on every game. They projected the point spreads of every game. Now, it's a worthless exercise because you have no idea what it's going to be like when you get there. However, just so you know, Washington is only favored in one game over the first 13 weeks of this season. So for those of you that are so optimistic, Vegas only has them favored in one game in their first 13, and that's week two against the Giants at home. They're an underdog to the Chargers in the opener. You know what the Chargers record was last year?

Seven and nine. And they weren't in the playoffs. And they're an underdog to the Chargers in the home opener. By the way, I'll just say an ad. I think by the time we get to kick off on September 12th, that, That'll be a pick-em or Washington will be like a one-point favorite. That's my guess because I think there will be a lot of steam and a lot of optimism from betters on Washington at the beginning of the season. But right now, the Chargers are favored.

The Giants, Washington's favored over in week two. But then after that, Buffalo, Atlanta, the Saints, Chiefs, Packers, Broncos, Bucks, Panthers and Seahawks and Raiders are all favored over Washington in a major, you know, hypothetical fantasy look ahead to every game of the season. But there is a massive difference between what Vegas thinks and what, you know, Sam Macho and Lewis Riddick and Evan Silva and all these other people that have been very, very bullish on Washington what they think. So what's your reasonable upside?

Reasonable? Like, would I be shocked if they won? nine games, I wouldn't. Would I be shocked if they won 10? I think I would. I think it's I think it's somewhere between 7 and 9 this year. I think that's what they will be. And if they get to...

I'm not asking you what do you think they'll be. If everything went right, what's their reasonable upside? If everything went right, yeah, like 9, maybe 10. Okay. Yeah, that's what I think. I don't think that this is a team capable of winning 11 or more games. I hope it is.

And I am, as you know, I'm sort of optimistic and certainly intrigued by Ryan Fitzpatrick. But it's also because I just know that offensively, you know, Tommy, I think when it comes down to it, I think this team's going to look better in part because it's going to look much better offensively. But I also think the defense could be better, but the results aren't there because of who they're playing week in and week out this year. I just, I think, you know, nine and I think it's a team that you will watch and will be entertained by and they're going to have a chance in a lot of games. Even as an underdog, they're going to have a chance in a lot of games going in,

and we're going to think that they're going to have a chance, but that, you know, nine wins is sort of the upside. I'll say 10. I'll say 10. Like if they really... Yeah, I would say 10. If they really, really hit... I mean, let's keep in mind in the division

that everybody's so convinced that Washington's going to dominate, except for Vegas. Last year, they played backup quarterbacks, and the only starting quarterbacks they played were Carson Wentz week one, and Daniel Jones, and Jones beat him twice. Like nobody's talking about the Giants, and the Giants beat this team twice. It's funny because you know Ronnie,

who calls all the time, peace and love Ronnie. He's been calling our station for years. He's such a nice guy. He called up, and he said, Kevin, did Washington beat the Giants last year or lose to the Giants? I go, they lost twice. He said, didn't Philadelphia bench the starter in a one-point game? What sounds are you making over there?

What are you doing? What was that sound you just made? That was nothing. Yes, it was. Stop making that sound. It was some kind of beach creature. I'm outside. Okay, whatever.

The, it's, just so everybody understands, he's not sticking the mic on his backside, on his ass. so it's coming from his mouth, whatever that noise is. I don't even know where I was. Ten is the upside. The division is going to be more competitive than it was last year. It would be hard for it to be any less competitive. And here's the question.

I want to take a break, and I want to answer this question, because it's a perfect lead into this question. What should Washington football fans, consider a successful season. And I'll give you some options right now to think about, all right? The options would be a winning season, by the way, which would be nine wins, 17 games, 9 and 8. A winning season should be considered a success.

A return to the playoffs or winning a playoff game. which of those three, maybe you'll have another potential answer. If you had to pick one of those three on behalf of a Washington football fan, which one would define a successful season? We'll answer that when we come back after these words from a few of our sponsors. During the break, Tommy explained to me what that sound was. Tommy, as he told us the other day, has a little bit of a cold, and he's been coughing and he moves the headset

instead of coughing into it. He doesn't have a cough button like I have here in the studio and like we always had in radio. So it's not as... No, I never use that cough. I never use that cough button. I never use the cough button.

I just turned the mic off. Yeah. Yeah, we have... Yeah, so did I. In a radio studio, you have sitting right next to you, you have a little box that allows you to hit a button if you have to cough so it doesn't come across on air.

You have what's called a talk back button where you hit that button and you're talking back to your producer who is not in the actual studio with you without it going over the air. And then you just have a mic on, mic off button. If I have to cough or sneeze or talk to somebody, I would just always turn the mic off. I never use the cough button. Yeah, neither did I. I would just turn the mic off. But I don't use the talk back button anymore either

because I don't have anybody to talk back to except for you. All right, so, what should a Washington football fan define as a successful season? I gave you three options to think about. A winning season, a return to the playoffs, or you've got to win a playoff game. Which of those three? And by the way, I think there's a lot of other things that could be factored in

and maybe you feel the same way. I'll let you answer the question first. Well, out of those three, I would say that, look, I mean, you know, they went seven and nine last year. And people thought it was a successful season because they won their division and went to a playoff game. not because of their record. So I'm throwing the record out.

They went to a playoff game last year, so that would just be a replica of what they did in Ron Rivera's first year as coach. Since winning playoff games are so rare for this organization and would logically be the next step forward, I would say winning a playoff game would be a successful season. Wow. Wow, you're tough. Well, I mean, look, seven, actually, if they did not win the division and go to the playoffs, we wouldn't be talking about them like they did anything last year.

They were seven and nine. I've explained that. Were you listening in the first segment? Yes, I totally agree. I've got my head clouded up with stuff. I don't really listen to them. Look, the answer with those three is the potential answers, is a winning season. is a successful season.

If they win nine games, it's a 17-game season, if they win nine games this year, it's the first time in six years they've won nine games. So that would be considered a successful season even if they didn't make the playoffs. For me, I think that's reasonable. There's so many other things involved, though. Like, it's always context.

You could make the case that they went seven and ten, but Taylor Heineke came off the bench in week five when they were one and four and led him to six wins. And that's a successful season because you found your starting quarterback for the future. Or they went nine and eight or they went eight and nine, but they lost a handful of games in overtime. And they were right there against some of the best teams in football. This is still a culture change moment for the organization. That's still the mode that they are in. Ron Rivera got to the playoffs unexpectedly,

and it was only because of the division and the weekend schedule. It was not because he had a good football team last year. I thought they were an improved football team, a better coached football team, but they were not a good football team last year. He was focused at the beginning of that year on changing the culture of the football operation and really the organization as a whole. You're still in that mode.

Remember what he talked about, Tommy, early on, military, five years, you know, to turn things around and get them on the right track. This is still a culture rebuild. And it was a teardown. He bought a teardown. and they stripped it and they are building it up and they just got lucky with a couple of of extra game, you know, one extra game last year.

And an experience, by the way, that was invaluable to play in that game and to play in the game at the end of the year that got them in. But this is still a build. They're not a great team. It's not a great roster. They still have a major question mark at the most important position on the field. And I won't even go in the direction of the. owner that he's still here. I'm strictly focused on football. If they have a winning record

this year, it's a successful season. Nine and eight, they haven't had a winning season since 2016. Yes. And let me point out that the coach, Ron Rivera, in 10 years coaching in the NFL, Oh, here we go. Has only won more than seven games three times. Right. Three times. Right. 30% he's won more than seven games.

You know what he is, though, as a head coach, or what he was before he got here? 76-63 and won. And was in the playoffs four times and had won three playoff games. It was three and four in the postseason. So 13 games over 500 would have been considered. you know, grounds for a lifetime contract extension here in Washington over the last 21 years and three playoff wins. So every time you try to knock him as a coach, you know, citing his overall win-loss record,

yes, he made it to the playoffs with a losing record in 2014. He's the only coach in NFL history to take two teams with a losing record to the playoffs. 7-8-1 in 2014, 7-9 last year. And, you know, in 2014, by the way, they did have a losing regular season record. They also won a playoff game before losing to Seattle. And you're making my arguments for me. No, you're... I'm saying the record doesn't matter as long as they make the playoffs and win a playoff game.

I guess. I guess I am from that standpoint, but you always cite his record as if he's some sort of loser. As if he's... Because you're banking. on the record as a successful season. And I'm saying it's meaningless. No, it's not meaningless in this situation. This is a different organization. This is an organization that hasn't had a winning record in its organization since 2016. This is an organization that hasn't won, you know, the nine win total is very, very rare, the nine or more.

And going back, let's just go back 10 years, they've won nine or more games twice. In the last 17 years, they've won nine or more games three times. So to go nine and eight, to finish above 500 would be, you know, and by the way, as long as, you know, he's, they're the, the team. team looks good, they're getting better, the culture's improving, it would be a step in the right direction. It'd be considered a successful season, even if the nine and eight doesn't get him into the postseason. You know who would be killing me right now? Doc Walker. Doc would be killing me. Yeah. Yes, he would. And he'd be right to. I don't know.

I don't know. All right. We'll finish up the show with a few additional odds and ends right after these words from a few of our sponsors. A couple of things to finish up on with Tommy, who is in Bethany, and he's going to be on vacation, but he's going to continue to call in to work the show. I don't know who this dude is. Neil Stratton, he works for something called Inside Football or something like that. Inside the League, excuse me.

His name's Neil Stratton. He tweeted out something that somebody sent to me last night. It's a text from a scouting friend. courtesy of the NFLPA. Quote, position coaches are calling players and in a nice way threatening that if they're not vaccinated, they could get cut, closed quote. Well, no shit. Like, this is the most obvious thing of all time.

Like, these roster battles for the last three, four, five spots, depending on the team, if you are close, if it's a close call between, you know, a D.E. end and, you know, another offensive tackle or two D-Ns, you're going to take the vaccinated player over the unvaccinated if there's a difference. Of course you are. That's going to be a major topic over the next month. Yes. Major topic.

You know, when it said that the Cowboys, no, when Baker Mayfield came out and said that he got vaccinated and that is important for the team to be vaccinated. It's important for their success and all that. I tweeted that out along with the reference that said Washington football leadership, question mark. And I got pushed back from a couple of people who said, this isn't on leadership. They can't force this. They provided player access to leading scientists in this area,

nothing to see here. Well, it's exactly on leadership. If you're one of the leaders of this team, you've got to convince your teammates that for the betterment of the team, for us to win, you've got to get vaccinated. I want you on, you know, playing left guard for me, and you might not if you're not vaccinated.

Of course it's a leadership thing. Ron Rivera, they're right. Ron Rivera seems to have done everything he can at least from what we know to try to show the players the importance of being vaccinated. Now, it is exactly up to the leaders of the team to convince their team. Unless, of course, the leaders of the team aren't vaccinated.

Speaking of you tweeting something out, you just reminded me to talk to you about one of your tweets over the last couple of days, which I will. I know which one it is. I know you do. Your choice, your body. I'm a total believer in that. And at the same time, there are schools you can't go to,

their jobs you're not going to be able to go to or get, and there are teams that you're not going to be able to play for because you put those businesses or those schools or those teams into disadvantaged situations. It's not that hard. In sports, it's really not that hard. If you're on the lower end of the vaccinated team, vaccination percentage list,

you are going to have more players getting tested more often. You're going to have players that during a week are at a competitive disadvantage because they can't use training facilities as often. They have to be physically distanced. Road trips will be different. But the bottom line, more than anything, is they'll be tested more, and they will go into contact tracing if they've been exposed, even if they don't have it, which could cost them practices and games. So if your team whose goal is to win a Super Bowl, and you've got, you know, the last five or six, spots on your roster are, you know, competitive and tight in terms of the decision, you're not

going to put an unvaccinated player into your locker room. You're not going to put an unvaccinated player that might, you know, end up not being able to practice. And with your better players, you're putting your team at a competitive disadvantage if you end up missing games, period. You know, I don't know if you follow the or have been following this Colby's situation. Cole Beasley, the receiver, former cowboy in Buffalo, is not vaccinated. He's been on Twitter, really going after people who are pushing NFL players to get vaccinated. You know, it's funny, I think that these things get blown up, and unless you go in deep dive and dig for it, as Jason, deep dive for it, as Jason Wright or Ted Leonis would say, you're not going to find out

what he's really saying. What I did learn from reading a little bit more about this is that some of the players who are unvaccinated are concerned that the vaccinated players aren't going to be tested a lot or tested at all because they could still get it and then spread it to an unvaccinated player. My answer to him would be if you're worried about getting COVID-19, then get vaccinated. It doesn't seem to be that difficult. If one of your reasons for pushing back on people right now is that you don't like the rules because vaccinated players aren't going to be under the same scrutiny, well then get vaccinated.

If you're worried about catching COVID from a vaccinated player, which, as he points out many times, people who have been vaccinated can still get COVID. They can. but if they get it, they are so much less likely of getting sick. Not that Cole Beasley, if he were to get it, the odds of him getting seriously sick or very high either. I understand the odds. Cole Beasley, a professional athlete, if he gets COVID, is not going to die.

Like the chances are so outrageously, the odds are so long that he's going to get seriously sick or die. and I understand how young people and professional athletes who are young might view this differently. However, the rules are what they are. And if you are a really good player on a team and you test positive or you're exposed and you can't practice or playing games, you're hurting your team. If you're a player that wants a paycheck from an NFL team and you're on the borderline of making a team or not making a team, understand that they may cut you because they don't want an unvaccinated player in their locker room. I agree.

I agree 100%. And it's not that hard. You're right. It isn't that hard. Everybody can make their own choice. I'm not saying that, you know, based on your personal situation and whatever, it would be, you know, that you think it's best that you don't get vaccinated. I'm just telling you there are consequences to not being vaccinated. and the consequences in team sports right now are that you may not make a team and get a paycheck

and you may have to look for another line of work. So the tweet that you sent out that Neil and Rockville sent to me and, you know, with a big WTF question mark, was this picture of Naomi Osaka on Sports Illustrated, the upcoming August 2021 Sports Illustrated in a bathing suit. and you tweeted it out and you said therapy, I guess. What did that mean? I guess this is part of her therapy. That's what you meant it?

You meant it that way? Yes, I didn't mean it for me. I guess this is part of her therapy to deal with her mental health issues. Well, that's sarcastic. Look, I get, yeah, look, I get the lead time on these things. She probably took this photo months ago. She did, apparently. many months ago. I'm sure she did. But even if she did.

Just like she probably, just like the Barbie doll that came out of her was probably planned months ago. And the Netflix documentary about her was probably planned months ago. And I'm assuming months ago, she wasn't, you know, as suffering from anxiety or mental health stress issues as she was when she refused to do press conferences. I'm just very, skeptical of that whole issue right now. I think it was a control issue by her and her people to basically dictate that, you know, we're bigger than the tour. And, you know, athletes can do that that if they want to. You know, I mean, they can have, you know, as much control as they want. But I'm just very skeptical of the whole Naomi Osaka story at this point. And so I'm

I just put in my two cents on that. When I said therapy, I meant, you know, basically, I guess this is part of her mental health therapy. Yeah, but you were sorry, that's sarcasm. Yes. You know that it's, you knew that it wasn't part of her mental health program to be the cover girl in Sports Illustrated in a bathing suit. So I wanted to...

Or be a Barbie doll. Or be a Netflix documentary. It's really... Or be on the cover. cover of bog. Yeah. It's really irrelevant to me whether or not this was shot earlier or not. But I'm going to say something that is going to back you and then I'm going to be critical of you. Number one, there are a lot of people in that sport that cover that sport that are just as skeptical as you are about what happened at the French Open. And that this was, you know, potentially an overrated thing with respect to.

her mental health. But more importantly, the fact that she was not even open to any sort of conversation to the French Open that tried to reach out and tried to accommodate her requests made a lot of people suspicious about the whole thing. You're not alone on that. With that said, Tommy, if she is suffering from a mental health issue, it was a cheap shot. That tweet was tasteless. I don't think it is.

It is. She's a young girl potentially going through a mental health, a mental anxiety issue, getting help, and you sarcastically, you know, tweet out a picture of her swimsuit on the cover of SI saying, oh, so this is your therapy, huh? Because if that's the case, if that's true, and we don't know if it's true, she used that, she used her illness to try to gain control of a situation. with the French Open and the press conferences. So if she's the one who basically, if she is suffering from mental illness, use that illness for her advantage.

Well, it didn't work out, and she dropped out, and she didn't want to face these press conferences anymore because she was incredibly uncomfortable and suffered from anxiety and depression-related symptoms because of it. How didn't it work out, Kevin? She couldn't play in the tournament. What did that do to her? What damage did that do to her?

I mean, that's sort of a separate conversation from this to begin with, Tommy. No, it's not. It's a young 20, how old is she? 19, 20, 21, and if she is going through a mental health crisis and she's in therapy for these public, situations that really impact her mental health? That's not just sarcasm. It's just mean.

And by the way, she didn't see it, I'm sure. But, you know, and you're trying to get a laugh. No, I'm not trying to get a laugh. I'm trying to criticize her youth. If you believe she's going through this mental health. Well, you don't know that she isn't. What if she is? That's right.

What if you found out that she is? That right now she's suffering. from depression. She's suffering from anxiety and panic attack disorder associated with all of these press conferences, and this is a real thing. Because you don't know what you... Well, then I say it's bad

timing to appear on the cover of a half a dozen magazines and have a Barbie doll come out. She couldn't control that. These things were done months and months ago. She has control of that. That's the whole issue. He never...

Control. He never, ever... when he might, might be wrong, let alone is wrong. Well, because I'm not wrong in this. I want to talk about... There's no right or wrong in this. Yeah, no, there is a right or wrong. That was sort of a low-blow, mean-spirited shot at a young girl who might be going through a mental health crisis. And what if she was using that for her advantage?

Well, what if she were? That would still be mean-spirited? No, it wouldn't be, but you don't know that she is. And you don't know that she isn't? You're right, but with a young person and with potentially mental health issues involved, I just wouldn't have taken the chance of putting something out there that was sort of flippant and sarcastic and tasteless and potentially hurtful. That's all.

Kevin, what? Why do we discuss anything on this show? We don't know anything about anything. Did you take... But we discussed everything. Did you take a beating on that tweet or not? Not really. Okay.

Actually, I had a lot of people retweet. it and like it. One last thing. Did you see this story about Texas and Oklahoma and the Houston Chronicle reaching out to the SEC about moving to the SEC?

No. You didn't. Texas and Oklahoma, according to the Houston Chronicle, are interested in moving to the SEC from the Big 12th. I don't know if it'll happen or not, but if it does,

Texas A&M, by the way, would be the team in the SEC that really doesn't want it to happen. They want to be the only Texas team in the SEC. But if Texas and Oklahoma bail on the Big 12 and the SEC welcomes them with open arms, it's going to start, in my opinion, another sort of conference movement conference reshuffling, you know, a couple of months. And it's, look, college sports are going to change in a big way anyway with NIA. and with these transfer portals and transfer rules. I mean, we've seen major changes to the sport just in the last year alone.

But the conference thing is always interesting to me because I, you know, went to a school and root for, you know, athletic teams that was one of the biggest moves of the whole conference reshuffling era. You know, Maryland, a charter member of the ACC, part of the best basketball conference for decades upon decades. in a basketball league at a basketball first school moving out of that league to the Big Ten. And my belief, Tommy, is that if this happens, it's going to start another wave, and what will happen is the Big 12 will disappear without Texas and Oklahoma in it. And then the SEC is going to

go after Clemson and Florida State in a big way, and that's always been a possibility. And if Clemson and Florida State were to leave the ACC, the ACC will start to break up. And what will happen is the Big Ten will then be looking to round out, add two to four more teams, and they'll go to the ACC because, for those of you who don't remember this, when Maryland moved to the ACC, the team that they wanted, other than Rutgers, They wanted Maryland and either North Carolina or Virginia. They wanted Maryland plus North Carolina or Maryland plus Virginia. Both North Carolina and Virginia said no.

Even though from a financial standpoint, it may have been better. It certainly was better for Maryland. They ended up going to Rutgers route and adding that big TV market. They wanted Maryland, not because Maryland's football program is great, not even because Maryland's basketball program's great. They wanted because the football program isn't, although who knows, maybe Coach Loxley will turn it around. But they wanted Maryland because of the TV market because of D.C. and Baltimore. Those two TV markets became number two and number three in the Big Ten after Chicago,

and Northwestern being in Chicago isn't huge for them anyway. Although there are a lot of Big Ten fans in Chicago, but really they're more Notre Dame fans in Chicago than anything else. But if the leagues start to change again, God, I hope the Big Ten goes and gets Virginia in North Carolina. That would make me so happy to have some rivals in basketball back in the league. But college sports are going to get really strange here. There's a story this morning that a high school kid who is a highly recruited kid

has five million followers. His name is Mikey Williams. He's not eligible for the NBA draft until 2024. All right. He just signed, he's a high school basketball player in North Carolina. He just signed a deal with a major marketing company, Excel Sports Management, and they are projecting that because of his social media following,

and he has 5 million followers across multiple platforms, so he must be quite the high school star. He's the number seven prospect for the class of 2023 right now. He's 17 years old. They believe he's going to earn millions of dollars before he ever gets to college or the NBA. Look, you're right. I mean, the college sports landscape is going to change dramatically

over the next 12 months. You see, Nick Saven says his quarterback has already earned nearly a million dollars in endorsements and stuff, and he hasn't played a down yet for them. Yep. Yep. He, you know, there's a lot of thought about that. You know, he has not, Bryce Young hasn't even won the job as the starting quarterback. And, you know, Saban made that comment. Some people believe that Sabin is, you know, he's super smart here,

and he's using it as a way to recruit. Not that he needs any more help recruiting, but to start to be the first guy. So you think that that's possible. So you're accusing him of maybe lying. Yeah. That seems pretty cheap. What? I'm not accusing him.

I'm just saying. a football coach of lying like that about a young man. Okay, easy there, big guy. Using a young man to basically create a lie to help his program. That seems awfully low. So a lot of people suggesting that that's what Nick Saban is doing, that several marketing companies have said there's no way Bryce Young's anywhere near a million dollars in endorsement. We don't know that. You see, we don't, we don't know that.

Is this the way you want to end the show today? You were wrong to tweet that out. You were, it was mean, spirited. And, you know, it was. And whatever, you do what you want to do, I'm just telling you, and I enjoy you on Twitter when I read some of the funny stuff that you tweet out. I think sometimes it's funny, and I laugh out loud, even when it's a little bit edgy. I don't mind it at all.

I think that that was an absolute cheap shot at a young girl who could be going through a mental health crisis. You're taking a cheap shot at a young man at his football. Who did? I didn't take a cheap shot at a young man. I think you did. You suggested he might be making it up. First of all, I didn't suggest anything. I told you that people are suggesting that Nick Saban may have exaggerated Bryce Young's endorsement deals at a million dollars

as a way to be the first out there to say, you come to Bama, you're going to make a lot of money and endorsement deals. So you're taking your cheap shot by proxy. You're letting somebody else do your dirty work for you. It's not a cheap shot. I'm just telling you what people have said about the Nix-Sabin. You brought the Nix-Sabin statement up.

I'm telling you what people have said about the Nix-Sabin statement. That's all. Yeah, but I thought that Nick Saven was telling the truth, you know? You did? I guess. I guess I'm giving them too much credit. Yeah, I mean, you're usually not that naive. You're not that usually that easy.

It is going to be interesting, though, to see what these guys really do make. Here's the thing, though, Tommy, in all seriousness, these players are going to cash in right away, those with large social media followings, or those who are playing in high-profile programs. but I think the Bryce Young thing, whether it's a million bucks or $100,000, whatever it is, it might be substantial because he's the starting quarterback at Alabama. I think it's another sort of point of proof that it's the programs that matter.

This has always been sort of part of my argument against paying players directly. I don't have that much of an issue with NIL. I've talked about that. But Bryce Young isn't going to make $100,000 or a million dollars in endorsement deals if he's the starting quarterback at Duke, or if he's the starting quarter, or Northwestern, lower profile football schools. Bama's the brand. Sabin is the brand.

They are taking advantage of this existing marketing platform that is huge for them. and by the way, their future as a professional athlete, as a professional athlete that gets a bigger contract because he's higher profile or she's higher profile, and by the way, endorsement opportunities that wouldn't be there without the marketing platform. Like Bryce Young, you've never heard of Bryce Young. I've only barely heard of Bryce Young because I follow college football,

but nobody's seen him play yet, and he hasn't even won the job. This is an absolute argument as to why schools are actually the draw, not the players. Bryce Young doesn't get anything if he plays for a much lesser program. You're right about that. Alabama is the brand. Duke Basketball and Mike Shoshchevsky, that's the brand. You know, the players that these players come and go quickly. It's hard to even name all the players.

that have come through the Duke program and left after a year or two, or the Kentucky program and left after a year or two. And then, by the way, disappeared in the NBA at the professional level. Unless you are a massive fan of those schools, you can't even name those people. But you know what you do know? Duke wears blue and white. They play at Cameron Indoor, and their coach, at least for another year, is Mike Shoshavsky. That's the brand.

And if you go to Duke, you're going to benefit and you're going to basically ride that brand into a professional endorsement deal and a contract that you wouldn't get if you were playing for a much lesser program and a much lower profile spot. But whatever. Do you have anything else pleasant today to talk about? I got nothing else for you, boss. The beach awaits.

Go enjoy the beach. I need to get some mental health time. And maybe before you retweet something or tweet something out, if you want to just, you know, if you want to just bounce it off me, feel free. Yeah, yeah, you'd be a good sounding board I would be I'd be a very good sounding board Have a great day at the beach

See ya All right, I'll see you Back tomorrow I don't know with whom But it'll be a good show I promise Dennis Hopper Move this fucking piece of shit

All right Well just give me a moment To turn it around I'll drive it backwards Dumb Nodz But fucking drive it And drive it now Okay

Okay stop yelling Hold your horses We're leaving Hell are you looking at, you little ginger hair, fucker. Hey, come around here again, I'm gonna call the fucking cops.