The Kevin Sheehan Show - WFT Rookie Update + No Deal For Scherff

Episode Date: July 14, 2021

Kevin with Ben Standig/The Athletic today for much of the show talking Washington Football Team exclusively. Ben wrote a story for The Athletic that updated the current thoughts on some of the draft choices from a league exec/scout. The Brandon Scherff news broke during the show...Kevin and Ben weighed in on that and the hiring of a former NFL.com writer to the WFT content team.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. Ben Standing will join me on the show here in a few minutes. I want to tell you that the show today is presented by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie.

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So right now, Washington closing in on Dallas at my bookie, and who knows, by the time we get to the opener, they might be the favorite. By the way, the Giants are plus 350. The Eagles are plus 600 to win the NFC East. I think the Giants personally at plus 350 are worth it. I think they are a good Daniel Jones, not an excellent, but a good Daniel Jones season away from contending and potentially winning the division. I love their roster. I think the Giants roster is very underrated. Now, one of the things that I've been reading is just the health of Saquan Barclay and whether or not he's going to be ready for training camp at 100%.

And if he's not, well, that's a big miss for them. because without Saquan Berkeley last year, they went six and ten, but in that division, they were still close to winning the division. And by the way, let's not forget, they swept Washington last year without Berkeley. Berkeley is a key. Daniel Jones is a bigger key. I really like the Giants at plus 350 as a play. But it is interesting to watch how Washington continues to inch closer

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And if you already have an account, you can still go back and re-up that account as well. Before we get to Ben today, I'm going to tell you real quickly on radio, I did a call segment this morning based on an exchange that Matthew Paris had with Jason Wright. Matthew Paris is the Washington football team beat reporter for the Washington Times. Matt does a really good job covering the team, and he tweeted out on Monday night, I think it was. For what it's worth, I asked how the team will handle fans wanting to wear old Redskins memorabilia. And Jason Wright's response to Matthew Parris was, quote, we haven't yet determined how we'll handle past and remaining references to our name, closed quote.

this, if it weren't asked specifically about how they'll handle fans wearing old Redskins memorabilia, which is obviously an implication of how they'll be handled in the stadium on game day, then this answer could have been, you know, it could have gone in a lot of different directions. Like, what does this mean with respect to how we, you know, reference it on our own website or in our own, you know, historical library of film that we sometimes use. Look, the NFL network in all NFL outlets, you know, if you watch the NFL network and you watch America's game or America's team where they go through the all the Super Bowl winners, they had the 91 team episode on last week. You know, that's the Gibbs Rippin' Charles Mann, 91 team episode. There's no cutting back on references to

Redskins, it's part of the league's history. And by the way, a big part and an important part of the league's history for many reasons. But on the football side, they were a storied winning franchise for, you know, an entire decade plus. They won three Super Bowls. You're not going to cut that stuff out. Remember a year ago when this all started to happen, a lot of fans were concerned about will they cut out all references to the team name, historical references. past shows and videos, what will they do when they show this seat cushion game and they see seat cushions flying down in the playoff game in 91 against Atlanta

and the pouring rain hitting the end zone that says Redskins are going to blot it out? No, they haven't done any of that. They haven't done any of that. Now, with respect to Jason Wright's answer to Matt Parris' question, we haven't yet determined how we'll handle past and remaining references to our names. game. Well, it does present the possibility, or at least they are discussing, or at least it's come up in conversation, the possibility of some sort of game day dress code. Can you imagine? I can't. I don't think that this is a practical thing from their standpoint, and I think it would be completely

unwise from a business standpoint. You know, there, I put out the poll this morning on what people thought of a potential game day dress code. And again, let me be clear. I don't think they'll have one. And I think that you will have some sort of an announcement or maybe no announcement at all about what they, you know, they're not going to have a dress code. I just don't, I can't see it. First of all, trying to enforce that. What a disaster, right? Hey, dude, you got to take off that Clinton Portis jersey. It says Redskins on the front of it. Well, I didn't bring any other clothes. Sorry. I mean, come on. It's not going to happen. They do have the right because it's a

private contract, a ticket with a private company for all intents and purposes. You know, you may have free speech on the outside, but you're not free of consequence on the inside. Anyway, I put out this poll, your thoughts on a possible game day dress code, and I gave four potential answers. You're outraged by it, and you won't abide by it. That's number one. Number two is, well, you'll just handle it by not going to games. Number three is, actually you believe it's a totally appropriate response. And four is you don't really care either way.

I don't think this will be a thing personally. I think Jason probably if, because this thing blew up a little bit yesterday on social media, probably wishes he didn't answer it and leave it open-ended the way he did. But if there were, for me personally, 2019 was the first year since I was five years old that I didn't go to a game. So 2018, 2017, 2016 were really the first years where I only went to one to two games. So I'm not going to games as much anymore. And I've already mentioned that I'm not overly passionate about this stuff as much as I thought I would be.

So my answer would be, I don't really care either way. But I also would say, parenthetically, I predict that this won't be a thing, that it won't happen. But 53.6% of 1,500 plus respondents at this point in the first hour and a half of putting that poll out there, 53.6%, the majority say they'd be outraged and they wouldn't abide by it. 23.3% say they don't care either way. 17.3% say they just won't go to games. And 5.8% say it would be totally appropriate for it to be handled that way. You know, it wouldn't be a good business move either, clearly. And that leads me to this because I wanted to add to sort of the conversation of the last, you know, two days,

not as much yesterday as the day before with Tommy. But, you know, this whole notion of a name versus no name. The poll that we did the day before was, do you think that when the team announces its new name and corresponding logo and everything related to the brand in early 2022, do you think the team will actually have a name or it'll remain sort of city-focused, you know, Washington football team or Washington Football Club or FC Washington or DCFC? Or do you think it, you know, will be the Washington Red Hogs or the Washington presidents or the Washington, you know, monarchs or the brigade or the.

the belters or the Swifts or the rubies, whatever they're considering. That is an interesting question because that is a, you know, a debate among many of you. You know, so when we get it in 2022, is it going to be a real name or is it just going to be Washington being the brand? Again, I'm not as passionate about this issue as I perhaps would have guessed I would have been a year or so ago. But I hope and I would prefer, it to be Washington as the primary part of the brand. But I would lean in the direction of there's going to be a name. And I would lean in the direction that there's going to be an actual name,

the Washington somethings, because I think just intuitively that the revenue upside is much greater if you actually have a name. I don't have any research or any data to support that. but I just think things like apparel would sell at a more significant rate if it's the Washington Red Wolves, which I can't stand, or the Washington renegades, or the Washington commanders, then if it was just FC Washington. That's my guess.

And if that's true, and their research indicates that that's true, well, then they're going to, you know, they're going to go in the direction of a name. That's not my preference necessarily, but that's my guess. By the way, the reaction, the response to that poll was pretty split. There was a slight lean, like 51 plus percent of people thinking that there will be a name, that there will be, you know, a team name beyond Washington's, you know, FC or football team when it's announced in early 2022. Last thing before we get to Ben, I wanted to mention that I got a note from Kevin about

some of the conversation related to the team this week and some of the Jason Wright comments, etc. And he said, you know, you basically said with respect to Jason Wright's comments about becoming a sports and media entertainment gold standard. You answered the way I think a lot of Washington fans answered it, and that is stop. Stop with the everything but football. This is another winning off the field comment. And Kevin, you know, and I'm paraphrasing here, said, Kevin, you sort of said that's another winning off the field thing. You know, the funny thing he writes is, my God, which was worse, the lack of winning on the field or their perceived winning off the field.

Yeah, it's close. They never won off the field. They were as big of a disaster off the field as they were on it. And even though I've mentioned this many times and referred to this many times, my favorite Doc Walker line, which is this organization is great Monday through Saturdays. Sundays are the problem. Well, the truth is over the years, they weren't very good Monday through Saturdays either. You know when they were good at times the month of March, like free agency or the draft and getting everybody ginned up with some sort of move?

And for a brief moment, maybe they were winning off the field. But for the most part, they lost off the field as much as they lost on it. With that said, I had Barry's Verluga on the radio show this morning. He wrote a column recently. And I do wonder whether or not we're right back in the same place where we've been before and we're expecting a different result, meaning there's optimism again like there was in 2000, like there was after the 2005 season, like there was after the 2012 season, like there was to a certain degree after the 2015 season.

And like there is now after last year. And this time, you know, because of all that's happened over the last year, and I went through it yesterday, It's maybe a different time. Maybe this time will be different. I have no idea what the answer to that is. I think some of you believe this is. This last year created the pressure to change, created and put the pressure on the owner to change,

and that this time something's going to come out of all of the distasteful stuff that's happened off the field. Not to mention it corresponds, with more talent on the roster than there's been, better coaching on the roster than there's been, still though a question at the most important position on the field, which is quarterback. I don't know what the answer is.

I do feel like the upcoming season or the upcoming next two seasons has a chance to be much more competitive and much more pleasant to watch than some of the seasons more recently. it's still going to come down ultimately to whether or not they've got a quarterback that can make plays and a quarterback that can play at least at a top half of the league level. They had that briefly in 15, 16, and maybe even 17, but they had a horrendous defense.

This time, if they can get top half of the quarterback play from Fitzpatrick or Heineke, well, they have a much better supporting cast defensively. And I think they've got a much better coaching staff. Ben Standing, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. We welcome Ben Standig on the podcast. Everybody knows Ben writes for the athletic. You can follow Ben on Twitter at Ben Standig, and you can subscribe to the athletic.

It's totally worth it. And Ben and Rianan and all of the local writers make the price worth the admission. And Ben's got a podcast, too, standing room only. You can get that anywhere you get a podcast. We're going to get into several topics with Ben today, but you wrote a column yesterday where you went out and asked people about Washington's rookies, and you got feedback from a longtime NFL scout and an executive who's watched each player that they drafted. And before we get to their third round pick, which I know how excited they were to get Diami Brown, let's go through it one by one. What did you learn about what, you know, NFL people or at least one NFL executive

thinks about Washington's rookie class? Yeah. So like this is an exercise of it's probably more appropriate to do sort of, you know, right after the draft and I did some of those things then, but I was having a conversation with somebody somewhat recently, and, you know, sort of the idea came up, and I don't remember exactly which one of the players we were talking about first, but he made a point that was, that was interesting. I was like, well, would you mind, you know, sort of, you know, on the, you know, not on the record, per se, or whatever, like, you know, give me your thoughts on the players in this class that you feel comfortable talking about, and that's kind of where, kind of where we went. And, you know, I think the broader

takeaway is, the reason I wrote about it was because it came to about the start, and soon enough we'll lump the rookies in with the overall 53. They won't just be rookies. They'll be part of the team, but right now they're still sort of a separate subset. Is a reminder of that, like, this seems like on paper to be a pretty good class, particularly those guys at the top. And yeah, Jamie Davis is going to have a lot of attention because he was the first round pick, and linebacker obviously is a big position of need, and we've talked about Sam Cosby a bunch because they kind of, you know, have him in a position hour

they kind of need to get something out of him at some point here because, you know, they moved on from Morgan Moses, but those two third round guys and St. Jouston and Diombi Brown, you know, it feels like early on, like that's maybe where their best value is going to come out,

and this person particularly was a big fan of Brown Cosby as well. And, you know, like I said, it's going to be really interesting, you know, whoever we want to give credit to these things, you know, two years in a row with Ron Rivera sort of in charge of this thing, at least intellectually, if not from a scouting perspective, you know, Washington has gotten high marks following the draft.

Well, yeah, I mean, I've always like been of the mindset that it's impossible to really grade a draft until three years after, roughly three years after it. But last year's draft, it's obvious that they didn't whiff on Chase Young. Antonio Gibson looks like he could really be a player and Cameron Curl in the seventh round looks like a potential NFL starter so they did pretty well there but number two overall wasn't very hard you know this year

and by the way Kyle Smith was a part of that decision-making outfit last year right I mean do we know today Ben how much credit Kyle Smith gets for last year's draft Um, not, not exactly. I mean, you know, I think, you know, all, it's confusing, right? Because even when you talk to some people who are, you know, involved, tangentially involved, who know what's happening, whatever, you know, it's just like with anything, right? If you and I start right this minute having a conversation about, um, anything, but whatever the topic is, and somehow we end up with some conclusion, and do you always remember exactly where the, were the idea came from?

You know, who was the first person? Like, I remember when, like, for example, like Ron Rivera gave a lot of credit. This isn't about the draft. This is for agency. He gave a lot of credit to Pete, the tight end coach, Pete Hainer, for pointing out Logan Thomas.

And that totally seems like, what I know? Seems like a reasonable thing, sure. But at the same point, like, how did Pete Hainer get to that person? Did Pete Hainer get to that person? Did he automatically knew Logan Thomas? Or, like, when Jay Gruden,

was given some credit for identifying Cole Holcomb. He didn't, I don't think Jay Gruden was watching a North Carolina game and told everybody, hey, go find this guy, go look at this guy. I think it was more probably like, hey, here are players to look at. He looks at them, determines that player that is interesting to him, and then they go from there. So I suspect it's a lot of that too, right? The scouting department is the one looking at these players all year long

and more than just one year in some cases. they, you know, call their list down to the number of players, and then they push that forward to the coaching staff and others, and then it kind of goes from there. So Kyle Smith, obviously, being in charge of a lot of that, certainly gets credit. I don't know if I can specifically say he's the one that said, hey, Antonio Gibson, Scott Turner, before you fall in love with him,

go look at this guy, and then Scott Turner falls in love with him, and now he's on the team. So, you know, it's a combination of things. Obviously, Kyle Smith highly respected. I think he's, you know, He will eventually be a GM in this league, I would imagine. Atlanta obviously likes him. They sign himself.

He gets credit, but it's always a weird dynamic of who exactly gets credit for what, when these ideas start to terminate weeks, months, years in advance of when the actual pick made. And a lot of times we don't hear about how it came about until years after. I mean, you mentioned Jay Gruden. Matt Ionitis was his. You know, Scott McLuhan has said it. Jay Gruden has said it. Matt Ionitis, he fell in love with Ionitis's tape. You know, I'm reminded as we're sitting here talking, that Scott McLuhan said,

I know he told me this on a podcast, that Jay Gruden, out of all the coaches he's ever worked with, head coaches, was by far and away the best evaluator of college talent. And Jay Gruden, when he was on my podcast, and I know he was on yours as well, you know, the last six months. I told him that and I said, do you think that's, you know, a strength of yours? And he said, it's the strength. And I remember saying something like, well, why don't you just, why don't you go into that? Why don't you become a GM? But he always felt like he was really good. You know, and I think back to like the Brandon Sheriff comment. Remember, you know, we got a, we got a receiver and we got a guard in the first two years. But I also know that he,

was in love with Trey Quinn and wanted them to draft Trey Quinn in like the fourth round. And, you know, they were essentially saying, you know, slow it down. We're going to be able to get him. We're going to be able to get him. And, you know, Trey Quinn's had injuries and, you know, I don't even know if he's still in the league anymore. Who, do we know anything about how the acquisition of players works now? Like Mayhew, Herney, Stokes, Pollyan, Gribble, you know,

Ron, etc. Do we have any sense as to who's handling what? I know herni's on the road more than Mayhew. But how, what's your sense of, you know,

the front office hierarchy responsibilities? Yeah. I mean, I think it's kind of what you, just saying like herni's out there out on the road a lot. I mean,

is in the building. watching tape but also dealing with people around the league a bit more I mean, grible as the role of Kyle Smith used to have as the head of the college scouting side. You know, the usual, you know, you bird dog players around the

country, you pour over the tape, and you're overseeing all the other, all the other scouts. You know, look, this group has been pretty quiet for the most part when it comes to you know, explaining sort of how the sausage is made, but I think the thing that sort of stands out to me, you just mentioned like the idea

of Jay Gruden wanting a Trey Quinn in the fourth round, and right, this is always the issue when you have a coach making personnel decisions. The coach is viewing it from the perspective of, I like this player and I need this position more than seeing the overall board. He's not looking at all 500 players you could possibly sit through and maybe doesn't therefore have as good of a feel

for where that player fits. I think one thing, you know, again, it's hard to say, and we'll see how these draft classes unfold over time. But, you know, it does feel like there's a, there is a cohesion to what's happening here in the last two years, even with different people involved. And that's, you know, I think you have to give Ron Rivera a lot of credit for that. It would be easy, again, as the coach to say, hey, I want a quarterback. I need a long-term solution at quarterback here.

We can't just go year-to-year with this thing and whatever. And he tried to get Matthew Stafford, but, you know, it didn't work out. it would be easy for him to say, hey, we're going to trade up to the 10th pick to take Justin Fields or whatever, or whatever. But he didn't do that. He allowed the front office side of his brain or the voices in the building to probably help say to him, well, actually, you know, maybe we don't want to do that. Maybe we don't think that Justin Fields is worth trading up the picks we need to get because we like enough players in these other rounds and this, that, and the other, and et cetera. and like I think that to me is the most interesting part of kind of what's happening right now is

I don't know you know it's more sexy to discuss well who is the person that discovered cam curl or whatever but it's more to me right now is there seems to be a cohesion to this and just lastly to this point I always I always end up bringing a wizard's analogy to this but like you know during the scoporrault one thing that was sort of frustrating was watching whether it was in free agency or the draft the wizards would have players that clearly the coach did not care for it as like something he viewed, and therefore the player wasn't used properly or at all. And what's the point of drafting somebody if the coach isn't going to use them in the best way as the front office would see it.

In this case, though, it feels like because Rivera is kind of running both, but the cohesion is a lot better. And that's, I think, very important when it comes to why, you know, there's some optimism here because you can't, it's not just about assembling talent. I mean, they have a lot of talent under Bruce Allen. It just, they didn't have to, they didn't have to do anything with it. they draft like a Dwayne Haskins who the court that the head coach didn't want, or they would add other players that didn't fit their system.

And then you don't get, and then you don't maximize the circumstance. So that to me is what's interesting is it seems to be that everybody's on the same page. And a lot of that obviously, I think you have to get credit to Rivera. All right. Let's go through some of these picks because you got, you know, a take from a scout and you got some takes from their coaches already.

but I want to go through these and just talk about each one of these players. Like, Jamin Davis, obviously a freakish athlete, everything about him, you know, flashed potential. We're here, you know, less than two weeks away now, or exactly two weeks away from the beginning of camp. You know, give me A, the conversation that you had with the scout, his take, and then B, right now where you see Jamin Davis slotting in, you know, when camp begins and potentially, you know, taking it a step or two forward to the regular season? Sure. I'll try to answer in such a way that it's interesting yet. People still go read. You know, I think, you know, look, I think with Dave's you mentioned, the athleticism, right? That's the number one thing that jumps off that it's not, you know, a guy his size, you know, in the 235-pound range,

can run as fast as he can. We've seen the pictures of him. You know, he and Chase Young are probably going to have a contest. is like who can wear the who best pulls off the hat shirt because I think both of them feel like they're going to be that kind of kind of a guy and his athleticism is what stands out and it does feel like that's what shoved him as high into the draft conversation as it did yet he was also highly productive at Kentucky but the point that the scat was sort of making was that like he would watch the games and like okay yeah that actually jaman david did this and jaman david did that but he didn't feel that it was a James Davis game, the way you maybe see some other notable defensive players,

that you're like, wow, that player, how many of these guys are out there on the field? But then he would look up the stats, and Jamie Davis would have 11 tackles, 14 tackles, what have you, so that he was productive, but it just wasn't always in like a wow kind of a way, which isn't to say that's not necessarily a negative. It's just to note that it didn't always feel like he was like this crazy dominant player.

But, you know, at the same point, I would just, sort of my view, David Davis basically only had the one year in college. I mean, this last year is when he really had the breakout. That's why he was so off the radar initially for a lot of people because he wasn't somebody that you were, you know, aware of, especially as a first-round pick talent prior to this year. So, you know, the athleticism right now is ahead of the technique, but the potential is pretty significant, you know, regardless.

Yeah, I think this was going into the offseason. They needed, they had the front four. They needed the back seven to improve, especially the middle three. They were not a great run-stopping team. And I think, you know, Ben, as we look at this season, I think one of the keys will be, can they become a more consistent run-stopping team? Because in my opinion, you can't be an elite defense if you're an inconsistent run-stopping team. the best defenses of all time were massive run-stopping first defenses.

And I wonder whether or not in any conversations you've had with anybody, they think because of the addition of Davis in particular, that they have answered the question of being a better linebacking corps to improve their run defense. Right. And I realized I didn't answer the question, like, where does James and Davis kind of fit in? think the answer is basically the hope is that, yeah, I mean, look, we all watched the name last year, the linebacker position, you know, was okay, but that was about the extent of it,

and they didn't have somebody that could take full advantage of the opportunities perhaps presented by that defensive line. And, you know, Rivera, you know, has moments of real candor, and during the year, he clearly was calling out the linebacking core, you know, in variety of ways. And, you know, when we got to the off-season, he pulled back on some of that a little bit, I think it's probably from a human perspective, but I doubt he really changed his tune. And I think the hope is that David was his sideline-to-sideline athleticism is going to be able to chase down players.

It's going to be hard for the defenses, or sorry, for the offenses, to focus on him, right? I mean, why are you paying attention to him when you have all those players up front? Even if he's, you know, showing as a blitzer, you're going to sense you're going to take people, you know, you can focus on him with Chase Young and Montess Wet. are coming from the edge. So I think his athleticism, if he can figure out the technique soon or then later,

I'm not thinking that as poor technique. I just mean, you know, be a consistent, you know, a tackler, and he's going to, you know, he's going to have some adjustment issues that's standard across the board. But once he can figure that out, then I think the hope is that it really gives them an element they didn't have all last year, not just an improvement over something, something they just didn't even have. And I think that's the hope going forward. Yeah, I think it's interesting.

one of the things you wrote in your column that the scouts take is it might be easier for him to start in the middle versus the outside. And if he were to start in the middle, where does that leave John Bostic? Because John Bostick's not an outside linebacker. And John Bostic, to me, has been one of those guys that Ron Rivera and Jack Del Rio have really liked. And I know his performance last year, especially in the first half of the season, you know, was less than stellar and certainly inconsistent. but they thought he improved over the second half of the season, and they think he is really smart. Like, he's one of those culture guys that they like.

And if you look at their depth chart, you know, you've got Holcomb, you've got Bostick, and you've got Davis sort of all penciled in as starters. Well, if Bostick starts, it's at middle linebacker, which would put Davis as one of the outside linebackers, and more likely than not, as a strong side linebacker, because I think Holcomb with his speed, although either one of them can play sort of that will spot.

But that's going to be an interesting training camp thing to watch. Like if Bostick's on the field, he's on the field as a middle linebacker, I think. I don't think he lines up on the outside. And if they really love Davis and they want him to play middle linebacker, then Bostick may be in jeopardy, and then you end up with a, guy like, well, you know, 47. Why am I blanking on his name? The guy that played Kalie Kudson, who I think they really liked as a really aggressive player and a good tackler. How do you see all of this shaking out? It's early. We'll find out more a month from now, obviously a month

and a half from now. But do you agree with me on Bostick that they like them, but the only spot for him is middle linebacker? Yeah, I get your point there for sure. I guess the thing is, like, part of what the scouts take was that if you put Davis in the middle, basically he'll see a lot more than if you isolate him on the outside. And he's going to be kind of limited in that role. And you want to expand his game as best you can because you want him to kind of do all these different things. And then figure out what ultimately he is best suited for and react there. And what's the potential there? Like the growth with Jamie Davis is obviously far more substantial than anything from Bostic.

Bostic is a guy, right? I mean, no disrespect to him, but, like, you know, there's not an upside here. He exists to play in some capacity. And so the question is, okay, so how do we get the best scenario for them is they maximize Jamie Davis or getting close to it and Bostic is playing. And if that means to me, Jamie Davis in the middle, and Bostic ends up on the outside, even if it's a lesser, it's not ideal, that to me seems like a reasonable way to go. Maybe there's some issues at times.

Again, they're only using, as we know, three linebackers, you know, what, 25, 30 percent of a game. Yeah. So it's not, you know, and Nicole, and with the two linebackers, and it could be Bostic or I think Holcomb, if I had that sort of bet would be my, would be my guess to go with Davis. Assuming Davis is ready to go and can handle three-dine responsibilities, which, you know, maybe isn't the case, week one, but sooner than later. So, but to your other point, like, you know, I was thinking the other day, like, who is this year Adrian Peterson or Sean Davis?

people that were putting on the roster today two weeks before training camp, but by the end of training camp, were cut. And there were specific reasons for both of those guys, but, you know, I think Bostic, like, there's not enough linebacker depth for me to say, well, that's going to happen. But to your

point, though, if they do make the determination that one Davis in the middle, and Bostic they feel is really not good enough on the outside, that they have to go in some other direction, well, then what? Then could that be a case? I'm not saying that, I would imagine. He ultimately starts, because at a bare minimum, I don't even know what else they would do.

You mentioned Colleague Hudson. I mean, Ron Rivera brought him up a few weeks ago when some of us spoke with him at an event for Joe Gibbs. He brought Hudson up sort of randomly as a, you know, sort of that Buffalo Nickel as an option there. So just the fact that he even brought him up in any capacity was notable because he didn't even play defense really last year. So that's interesting. But, yeah, that would be my thoughts. I think ultimately I would focus on Davis. What can he do?

How do we maximize his situation to get him going where we want him to be as soon as possible, even if that means having to play Bostic or somebody else at the other out on the outside? I'd have to go and look this up again, but they had Kaleek Hudson out there for defensive snaps at the end of the year, more and more. I felt like I remember coming in late in the season and going 47 got snaps. Like he was, when Kevin Pierre-Lewis was missing time, right, true. Then, yeah, then they were doing some different things, and that's when Hudson got in there a little bit. But yeah, it just wasn't a guy that was out there a ton otherwise. But look, I mean, you know, second-year player, they drafted him.

I don't think there's, I think it's not inconceivable to me that that would happen. I mean, for sure. But, yeah, we'll see. Again, to your point, training camp, but we all have a lot of assumptions and thoughts, but this is why you do training camp. And, you know, Hudson wasn't somebody we were very focused. on during the earlier OTAs and things like that. But, yeah, somebody to keep an eye on for sure.

I'm trying real quickly to pull up one of the last game books with snap counts, because I forget which game it was, but I think he had, which game is this? Yeah, he played 17 defensive snaps in that game against the Panthers. in that game. Now, was that a game that didn't include? Yeah, there was no KPL in that game. So that made more sense. But, you know, the other thing, too, and I remember this,

is Bostick pretty much was on the field for every defensive snap down the stretch. It's something that will be interesting to watch, and it's very important, I think, to the defense. Back to your column in the athletic. about getting a lot of this feedback on their rookie class. What about Cosmy? What did the scouts take on Cosmy? What was his take on Cosmy?

And, you know, are you with me that I think ultimately, you know, and maybe very early he's the starting right tackle? Yeah. So, you know, not everybody views Cosme as a first round pick or somebody that you definitely wanted relative to some of the other players at that spot. There's some questions perhaps about, you know, how big, can he get big enough to play that spot while maintaining is impressive, like 48, 4.40 time. And, you know, and others just not necessarily fans of the tape for whatever the reason. This person, though, not the opposite of that, believed that Cosme had, he viewed him as a possible first-round pick.

I think he was like the fourth, I think it was basically like tied with Dara Thore. Christian Dara Thaw, who went in the first round as the fourth tackle, but he preferred Cosme to Dariusaw. So obviously, he would probably go with your view of that Cosby's going to get in there sooner than later. I mean, you know, the Morgan Moses thing, there was a lot of, you know, factors that went into that decision. But obviously on some level, you have to feel like, well, do we have a backup plan if we go

in this direction? You do have Cornelius Lucas, who was pretty solid. You know, it felt like last year at left tackle when he had to play. Right tackle is considered to be his more natural position. He did start a bunch of games for the Bears before he came over here. But from an upside perspective, yeah, this is about, this is Cosme is clearly going to be the answer there. And I guess just like with anything else, right? How quickly does he make the adjustment coming into camp?

Obviously, he was playing some, you know, during the OTAs and whatever. But, like, he was mostly working with the second unit and wasn't. doesn't always necessarily against Chase Young. In the training camp, we'll, in theory, see a lot more of the one-on-one matchups where the tackle against the edge rusher. And we'll get a chance to see Cosmy against Chase Young and Montes-Wed and so on. And I think that will go a long way. I think ultimately, you know, Lucas is the solid safer play, but Cosmy is the upside play.

It's a spot where obviously you can't, you know, right-tackle, you know, kind of important. You want to protect the quarterback and all that stuff and open a hole for the running game. So you can't just sort of have a guy learn all. on the job per se, especially when, like, James Davis, there is no really other option, right? It's like, you don't use Jamie Davis, like, what are we even talking about? At tackle, they do have another, another option,

so they don't have to go that route. And that's what makes it that's what makes it interesting, for sure, with regard to, uh, to Cosman. I don't know, I, I would imagine, I'll say Lucas is out there for week one, but it would, but Rivera clearly like Cosmin, it wouldn't surprise me there for if he'd get out there.

soon enough. What about in the third round, the two players? Let's go with the first one that was picked. Benjamin St. Juice, the cornerback from Minnesota. I sort of feel like since minicamp and OTAs, there's been a lot of discussion about him and in various, you know, stories about the upcoming season. He's been picked as like a surprise contributor, et cetera. What was the scouts take on him? and where do you think he sort of fits in right now? Yeah, I mean, the conversation with St. Juice was probably just more broadly about the fact that he's a six-foot-three cornerback and what does that mean in the NFL, and obviously there's a lot of positive to have a player who are that size, who's that fluid, you know, the length, the abilities, you know, receivers are getting bigger and bigger, you know, obviously there are some of the short,

guys, but they're getting a lot of these bigger, bigger option than you need. It's important to have size on the perimeter. So they've got that with, with Seiji. Now, the one question is sort of like when you have taller corners, the longer legs, it's not as easy at time for them to sort of, you know, get in and out of breaks and things along those lines. And that was sort of the biggest question there. But I think in general, he was, you know, like the, the,

the player from what he had seen. I don't think he has as much of a feel for him versus like some of the other people were talking about. But, you know, by and large, with St. Jude's, I think it's a really fascinating circumstance, right? Like, it would be easy to say, okay, they're going to have Kendall Fuller, William Jacks on the outside. Jimmy Morland is the nickel cornerback, and then you have, you know,

Landon Collins at strong safety and this, that the other. But, you know, you have Cam Curl. If you're going to keep Cam Curl and Landon Collins on the field together, which is something obviously they did beginning of last year, and it's potentially the way to go this time. Well, then that means taking one of the cornerbacks off the field. On the other hand, you could make the case that, hey, if St. Juice can actually play right now,

like he did at times during OTAs, and it can't be looked pretty good. You can take all those practices with a grain of salt, but it looked pretty good. If he's able to go, are you maybe better off putting him outside and moving Kendall Fuller to the slot on some more plays? and going that route, but that would then maybe take Curl or Moreland off the field a little bit more.

So they really actually have, it's actually going to be pretty interesting to see what they do in the secondary. Obviously, Landon Collins probably wouldn't even be out on the field for most of all training camp. So we won't see it in full. But, you know, the fact that St. Juke, again, it has been incredibly early, but the fact that he looks apart early on and gives them size where they otherwise don't really have a lot, I mean, I think it's going to make him a really intriguing option for them. Yeah, I do too. I think just the secondary in general in landing Collins' availability and his health and training camp,

and a lot of that will be interesting. You know, we've already heard some favorable things said. Maybe you were a part of this discussion. Derek Forrest, their fifth round pick, and how well-coached he was coming from, you know, a Cincinnati defense that was one of the outstanding defenses in college football last year. We know how much they like Jeremy Reeves. There's just a lot going on in the secondary. DeShazer Everett, I thought, played really well.

One of my favorite points of the year that Cooley made last year during the season, and I forget when he made it, but it was after DeCesar Everett started to play. He said, you know, DeCesar Everett is one of those guys that has really not benefited from the lack of hitting in practice and the rules regulating hitting in practice because the thing that he does well, which is hit, doesn't show up in practice. And that's why whenever he's gotten in the games, he's sort of always outperformed what many people in the organization thought he would. I want to get to the other third round pick, Diami Brown, because I know, and you and I had these conversations before, and I think you had a sense of it too.

that there was a lot of several people in the organization, Scott Turner in particular, that really wanted Diombi Brown. And they were holding their breath as the third round was going on because they really saw him as another huge third round receiver get. You talk to a scout about him, and this is probably as positive, you know, a review. But, you know, we've heard a lot of it even since OTAs in training camp. But just give me some thoughts and share with everybody. some of the thoughts that you got on the scout on the third round receiver from North Carolina,

Diami Brown. Yeah, I mean, just to put it, you know, it's one thing for a player, or for a scout to say they like a player, sure, whatever, but for some context, in this case, the scout said that he had Brown rated very favorably compared to Rashad Bateman, who was the first round pick by the Ravens and considered it be a good pick. And that's sort of for this evaluator, the level that he's putting Brown on, that that he was somebody a big fan of it. And to me, he really is, like, even more than, like,

like, I'm not just, you know, just County of Damon Davis is upside or Cosmy and all these guys, like especially the top four guys are all, you know, veer into that athletic freak category to a certain degree, or at least they're intriguing athletically. And I think what's interesting with me with the Omby Brown is there's a lot of, it seems like a lot of Terry McCorn in him as a guy who's got speed, but he's also a really precise rat runner and can, you know,

play a little bit tougher. than maybe you would think based on his size. And, you know, I wonder, you know, maybe not this year. Obviously, you have Curtis Samuel now and, you know, we'll see what happens. But, you know, I think Diombi Brown, if you tell me that the young Brown is Tara McCorn. You're kind of out to go-to-out-outside receivers, you know, in a year or so, and being really effective at that, that wouldn't stun me. I'm kind of, maybe just because he's the one of the top four that I've written about,

or talked about a lot. I guess I've talked about it, written about them. But I'm really intrigued by him and listening to what this scout had to say. It did not dampen my personal hype for this kid. They really liked him. I remember just sitting there watching the receivers come off the board, and then they took St. Juxt in the third round before him. And I'm sure that Turner and others were sitting there going, oh, my God, is he going to be available when we get to our other pick here? And he was, and, you know, I don't want to go nuts here, but it's actually kind of interesting that a team that really hasn't had offensive playmakers and offensive skill position players in the last, you know, two to two and a half years, three years, I guess, now may find it, you know, a challenge to get them all on the field at the same time. That's nuts. But between Gibson and McKissick and then McLaurin and obviously. the addition of Curtis Samuel, and if Diami Brown ends up being all that.

And oh, by the way, Adam Humphreys, who is a pure slot guy, it'll just, they're not going to have, potentially, they're not going to have the excuse of not having enough players that get open. And I think this year they'll have a quarterback that can distribute better. All right. I want to take a break for a few words from a few of our sponsors. There is breaking news here as we are recording the podcast. It's Washington football team related, and Ben and I will get to both of those items when we come back. Right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

Ben just confirmed moments ago as we're recording the podcast here this morning. A report from Ian Rappaport that Brandon Sheriff and the team will not agree on a contract extension before the July 17th deadline, which is coming up. This is hardly a July 15th deadline. This is hardly a surprise. You know, Sheriff is going to make, you know, close, you know, over $18 million this year on his second consecutive franchise tag. And, you know, we've had this conversation many times as it relates to the tag. I mean, if you've got a player that you think you want long term, it's better to be aggressive early than go down this franchise tag path.

It gets very pricey. And as we've learned here, the closer a player, no matter what you think of that player, if that player is good enough, that player gets closer to unrestricted free agency, they want to participate in it. So I'm certainly not surprised at this news. And, you know, I think it certainly increases the possibility. If not, it becomes probable that Brandon Sheriff will be playing his last. last year here in Washington.

Yeah, I'm just sort of as I was dealing with this really quick, I was looking through my article that I've written on this topic, and back in February before they gave them the tag, my article was, Washington, if they want to keep them, they need to give Shurf their best offer now and skip the tag. Because, I mean, yeah, for 21 purposes, it secures this player rather than losing him in free agency and then having to figure out something else.

But on the other hand, it really, really limits the likelihood that he's playing here going forward. Obviously, we in Washington, have unique experience with this because of the Kirk's circumstance. But putting aside any of the drama, he gets on the second tag, Sheriff got a salary raise of 20% of what he received last year,

awful what he got last year. So he made $15 million last year, now he's making 18. That goes up to liking it's like 44% of what it was. And at an 18 million, and just for this year, the highest paid guard on a multi-year contract is averaging around $16 million a year. And that's... That's Thunee, right? Yeah, that's a Thunee with the chief who signed like a five-year, $80 million contract

that's terms of the raw number. So, like, sure, but, you know, surfside is not going to... For them, if you're negotiating with Washington, it's going to say, okay, well, 18 million a year years where we're at, so sure, you want to talk about a five-year deal at that point, and obviously, for Washington, that would be nuts. So likelihood is if you're going to, I would put it like this, I would not invest in a branded sheriff jersey if you're looking to wear it beyond this season. Yeah, the other thing too is that 2022, and I remember looking this up the last time I had a conversation about sheriff, there are no guards. Like there are some tackles that'll be available in free agency next year, but he will be like a top 10 available free agent in total and essentially really the only guard.

out there. So he's going to be able to strike gold. And, you know, I don't know. It's been weird with Sheriff. I had this sense when they were with Bruce Allen trying to get him signed to a long-term deal that he had no intent on signing here long-term. I think it's a different organization now. You know, I think Sheriff probably looked at this organization like Kirk did at some point and say, you know, say to himself, I'd rather be somewhere else. Maybe it's different now. but he's too close to the Holy Grail. And he's already at the Holy Grail this year in terms of the position at 18 plus million. As you mentioned, two million more than the number two.

So, yeah, there will be, you know, there will be a hefty, a very healthy bidding war for Brandon Sheriff. And Washington's going to have to pay up, you know, a year after they paid him on a second franchise tag. And to your point, you never pay a third franchise tag because it would be an outrageous sum of money. I think a lot of people would say you don't pay $18 million to a guard to begin with. But this particular year, they were in a pretty decent situation cap-wise. They could take the $18 million for the year and still, where are they? I think there's still like $15 million under the cap as we speak somewhere in that neighborhood. I think they're still in the top five or six of teams.

terms of favorable cap positions. So there's that news. And then, you know, if you're looking forward, well, don't. They're not, you know, they've got, you know, guys that they think they have depth right now at the guard position. They signed Eric Flowers. One of the reasons is they felt like they needed another starter and they also wanted to have them around for some depth. I mean, they liked Schweitzer. They like Martin to a certain degree. And Sadiq Charles, I think some people believe could be a guard. So there will be options, and let's not forget, it's a guard, as Jay Gruden once said. Yeah. Yeah.

So for 2021 purposes, they still have their best offensive linemen. They lose Morgan Moses. If we're just focusing on this year, they're better off having Brandon Sheriff than they're not. But long term, that's going to be a problem. Yeah. The other piece of news is really inside baseball stuff for the most part. Ben told me about it during the break. But longtime NFL.com writer Mike Silver, many of you may know his name, and I'll tell you why here in a moment, if it's not completely familiar to you as an NFL fan.

But Mike Silver wrote for NFL.com forever, a longtime NFL reporter. he has taken a job with the Washington football team. Julie Donaldson tweeting out, excited to welcome Mike Silver to our content team this season. His wealth of knowledge and experience will help us tell stories in a truly authentic way. Mike Silver is very close with Ron Rivera. Mike Silver pretty much broke the news, I think, about Rivera being that, the new head coach in Washington or being down to the finalist and then wrote a story about Ron Rivera. And I'm trying to pull it up right now because there was a part of that story that

I really loved. And it was, hold on for a second. I have it here, Ben. I'll find it. Give me your thoughts on the silver thing. Yeah, I mean, I think beyond the fact that he's a guy who's obviously, you know, a long-time journalist, and he's been around, and he's covered a lot of, he's covered a lot of things. I think I have a book on my, a bookshelf. He did a biography or autobiography on a, Nat, like Cawglin, one of the big Olympic swimmers from a few years ago. I think because I think Silver is a cow guy also, I think, and she was from Cal, and obviously Rivera, he's a cow guy. So look, whatever, he's a guy, but I think the interesting thing is, you know, I, I did this rant yesterday on my podcast,

about all this recent name change news that everybody's getting excited about or discussing, and I'm sure you did too, and I don't mean this isn't any negative way for anybody, but like this is a downtime of the year, there's not much news, there's nothing happening, so anything that's even remotely interesting, we're all sort of talking about,

including things like Jason Wright saying they're not going to use Native American name or imagery or anything, including warriors going forward. And of course, that's like the biggest thing, right? I mean, of course they weren't going to go back to that, But they're taking advantage of the news cycle and putting it out there and making it seem like it's doing a thing. And I think this Mike Silvering is another example of this. They have their own, you know, they hired Julie Donaldson a year ago.

They're trying to, you know, they have a website and while it's not looking, it's obviously the in-house news, like they're not going to crush anybody when somebody has a bad day or they're not going to ask Ron Rivera, the hardest of hitting questions, right? But, okay, whatever, they're doing what they do. But they are looking at that site as something bigger. It isn't just a place to deposit some video from practice. They want it to be part of their bigger property, just like Jason Wright saying he wants, you know,

they're not just viewing a new stadium as a place to play football. They're viewing it as a home for all kinds of other endeavor. Same thing with the name. They are really pushing this on a PR level, but also as a broader enterprise level, to expand this thing beyond the simple football team that we all discuss. And I think even this may not seem like as big of a deal. This is another example of that. They could have just hired a 25-year-old who makes no money to write some basic copy. That's kind of what they've done over time.

And I don't know exactly what Mike Slover is going to do. It sounds like he's not moving here. It sounds like he'll just sort of be still be a little bit of. an NFL network guy and do some things and help out. But having a story written by Mike Silver is obviously something you're going to have to read. It will be probably well written and perhaps informative. And that's, I think, just another example of them trying to view this entire product, everything that goes around the football team and trying to raise the level because they're viewing their own property as something that they should get more out of.

Yeah. We had a conversation about this yesterday. in the day before, I think one of the more fascinating parts of Jason Wright's job as the team president of business, you know, and having responsibility over the business operations and not having any responsibility over football and yet being the guy that communicates more publicly than anybody else in the organization, really, at least in this offseason, is that line about, you know, becoming the gold standard of sports and media entertainment, you know, companies and organizations was just so off-putting to me when I first heard it because it was just a reflection of same old, same old. It's like, hello, it's about the fucking football.

Can we one day here in this town with this organization make it about football? But to be fair to him, the football isn't his responsibility. That's Ron Rivera's responsibility. I think organizationally there should be more recognition and more of an understanding that when you talk too much about non-football stuff, there isn't a recognition of how much it sort of is like, you know, needles in people's eyes because of the winning off the field and the fact they haven't won much off the field. And I pointed that out earlier in the podcast. But they just, you know, again, I'm beating a dead horse here because I mentioned. it earlier as well. It's still one of my all-time favorite lines, and I'm repeating it because Ben's here, but Doc used to walk around the bullpen at the station, and, you know, after a loss and say, this franchise, they're the best between Monday and Saturday. Sundays are the problem.

And all we want and all fans want is a better product on Sundays, a better product on game days. And yet this organization's always been focused on all of the other stuff more. And they haven't done the other stuff very well. So anyway, I did find the Mike Silver story that he wrote on December 28th, 2019 about Ron Rivera. And this was the part that I remembered that I really liked. You know, they talked about, you know, him taking over a team that wasn't very good. They were two and 14. And he writes, Rivera recalled a story from his early in his Panthers, from early in his panther's tenure when he publicly took blame for his player's failure to execute the coach's plan. The following day, he read a quote from one of his players in the newspaper that set him off.

This player said, you know, this is how we did it last year. It worked out great for us. I'm not sure why he wants to change things, Rivera recalled. And I freaking lost my mind, Rivera said. I had this PowerPoint presentation all set, but instead, I walked into this meeting, I had the newspaper rolled up, And I got in front of them and I said, let me tell you guys something. Just so you fucking guys understand this. If you do things the way we ask, the way you're coached, the way it's planned, and it works, you guys will get all the kudos. If it fails, it's on me because that's what I'm telling you.

But if you go out and you do your own damn thing and we fucking lose, it's on you. And I will never fall on the sword for you again. That's fucking bullshit. Sit there and say, and this is, I'm quoting him, sit there and say that what we did last year worked, so two and 14 was fucking good enough for you guys? And then he screamed, fuck you to the entire team. And he said, I threw the paper down and I walked out. I was very blunt about it.

And that's it. If they're not all in, if they're not willing to do it your way, it's time to fucking get rid of those guys. And that's what happened. We systematically got rid of guys that weren't doing it our way. Closed quote. Well, that's what we've seen here so far. If you're not on board with his way, you're out. And by the way, I love that about him.

I absolutely love that about him. Because at the same time, he's not a dictator or an authoritarian. People really like him. And we know that from just the reaction. from his current players, but really the players that were with him for a long period of time in Carolina. I mean, that was a genuine response when he got fired from a lot of his former players. But I think when he gets frustrated, it's because you're not going to do it your way.

You're going to do it my way, and you're going to get credit if we do well. But if you do it your own way, I'm not falling on the sword for you and you're out of here. And I think that's really in the first year and a half, year and, you know, whatever, I think that's what we've seen from him. You know, and by the way, you know, taking away those couple of months where some of the things he said didn't make a lot of sense, he was fighting cancer in those first couple of months of the season. Yeah, that was, that was quite the quote and quite the reading of it from you. You got into it. That was, I like that. I'm kind of pumped up.

I really want to go work out right now. Yeah. Be careful, because I know you're not a big workout guy, so make sure you ease into it. But no, I just remembered the Mike Silver story because I had him on the podcast right after he wrote that story. Mike was, I knew Mike was good friends with Rivera. And, you know, Cooley actually knew Mike pretty well. And Mike came on the podcast, and we did a long interview and it was really interesting. And I remember him being a very interesting guy to talk to. To your point, now that

he's basically working for a team, it'll be interesting to see how he writes and whether or not, you know, he has a sharp, you know, keyboard finger when it's required. Because I don't think you can if you're working for the team. Yeah. And by the way, like this isn't just about Washington. I think I thought that Steve Weish, who used to be a former Falcon beat writer. He's also with the NFL network. Now, he is also, I think, has a similar situation going on where he's going to contribute to the Atlanta Falcons site. It is interesting, and there may be other

examples. I'm not, it's not, but these two I mentioned are both of the NFL network. Obviously, that's, you know, it's owned by the league. So it's going to be a cove your relationship. And look, I mean, we'll see. I would imagine that whatever silver is going to write, it's going to be things on the lines of featurey stories

on this player or that player as opposed to some inside baseball stuff, and if that were to happen, then people like me are going to start getting annoyed from an access perspective. But, yeah, we'll see. It's interesting, like I said, from a broader view of what this organization is doing. And like I said, regardless of what I think of it, you mentioned the idea before, stop talking about things that are not about football.

All that is a fair point, but it is interesting to see the level of coherence and competence that seems to be happening now in this organization. and it isn't just doing something and just throwing it against the wall or having no plan beyond the minute of what you're doing, which was happening before, with different people running the show. And, you know, this is just another example of that. Again, regardless of what I think of this, it's a sign of people over there trying to do more with what they have. And I think if I'm a fan, I think a lot of these things make me feel better. You know, again, you want the wind on the field, but ultimately kind of make me feel better about who's running the show over there.

Yeah, I just think ultimately for an organization like this one that is at an all-time low from a business standpoint, from a customer standpoint, from, you know, a potential, you know, growth standpoint, they have to produce on the field. You know, I mentioned yesterday, I put it in the terms of what Jason Wright is trying to accomplish is he's trying to build. out something that is losing resilient. That is so hard in this particular business because so much of it is about what happens on the field. You know, a team like this with its past and with its present, you know, isn't going to gain enough incrementally because they've got a great stadium or great entertainment

or they've got a really good e-sports team or they're, you know, a shareholder in a soccer team or I just don't see it that way. The Cowboys, and I pointed this out yesterday, I think they're one of the very few examples of a team that can grow business-wise without, you know, winning significantly on the field. And it's even a bad comparison to Washington because they've won more, you know, under Jerry than Dan's ever won. And, and I pointed this out yesterday, you know, Washington's losing. has been low rent losing.

You know, it's been embarrassing low rent kind of stuff that's really turned off people beyond just the losing. So they can try to turn that around and I give him credit and I give Jason credit, you know, kudos for

attempting to do that. But his job is totally reliant on what Ron Rivera and the football people accomplish, period. If they don't win, if they don't create sustained winning and by the way have something beyond the winning that people feel good about, it's going to be a hell of a challenge for him, no matter how many Mike Silvers and Julie Donaldson's and, you know, e-sports companies they get involved in.

That's my view on it. Anyway, yeah, I mean, and not to shamelessly mention one of the things I wrote, but the article that we did a few weeks ago where we did a deep dive into the name change process, not what the name will be necessarily, but what it takes to get it done. Like the biggest takeaway for me from that entire story talking to branding experts and others is if you don't win, the name will always, it won't matter. Like, the names that maybe people think are great names, are that because the teams won? It's not because Packers is amazing or, or, you know, other names, or the Ravens.

But you think of the Ravens, you think of Ray Lewis, and you think of that defense, and you think of a certain thing, that's because of the product on the field. So they can do all the marketing they want. They can come up with, spend all this time coming with a name. If they don't win, then that name will take on a different view as that of a loser. And that sounds like, again, to see people think of the NBA team in town to some degree because of for the same reason. So, yeah, ultimately you got to win, and that will help everything else.

Yeah, and it's never more crucial to win and win quickly than when you are in the midst of a major brand change with what once was, you know, a passionately followed product. There's actually pressure to win right away with whatever brand change comes. And I will tell you this too, and this is going to seem like it's another knock on Jason Wright. It's not. I don't think him communicating it in this way is necessarily a problem, and I think most teams would do it this way. But, you know, they really want everybody to believe that this is, a very inclusive process.

Like somehow the fan base is going to feel much better about them and about the name and anything else because they're a part of this process, or at least they're making people feel like they're a part of the process. He had a quote in Pete Haley's story on NBC Sports, Washington. I actually think the journey through this, making sure there's the right engagement at each step along the way.

making sure that the decision-making process is clear to folks wherever we can be open and clear about it is almost as important as where we land. That shows that we're actually committed to stewarding this on behalf of the fan base. I just disagree. I think ultimately none of that shit matters. I think whether they quickly picked it because they had picked it five years ago and they had all the branding around it or whether or not the fan base really was. impactful or influential in the new name, none of it matters. You've got to win. You've got to win, and you've got to win big, and you've got to win quickly. And you've got to have it be something that people buy into as, this is now a good organization that wins, and that every year we go into a season, there's a chance that we're going to be competing for the playoffs or a Super Bowl. And without that, good luck with, you know, everything else. I mean,

He's got a very difficult job because he's got very little control over, you know, his P&L fate. But anyway, what else you got for me? I had other things on my list, but you've got to go. I know you're up against it as well, and we had the news there. We'll talk, you know, name and Wizards coaching search the next time we chat. Fantastic. Always appreciate the time. and yeah, good timing for them to break the Brandon Shurf for the Brandon Shurf

who's come out while we were talking. Good stuff. Yeah, of course. Ben Standing, everybody. Subscribe to the athletic, listen to his podcast, Standing Room Only, anywhere you get a podcast and follow him on Twitter at Ben Standing because Ben does break and very often is the first to confirm any sort of story about the Washington football team. I am done for the day.

you guys have a great day back tomorrow with Tommy.