The Kevin Sheehan Show - WFT vs Dallas Round 1...Ding!!

Episode Date: December 10, 2021

Kevin previews and picks the Washington-Dallas game on the show today. After a 7-1 "Smell Test" last week, he's got 4 more NFL picks for this weekend. Hall of Fame Coach Gary Williams joins the show to talk Washington-Dallas in addition to what's next on the coaching front at Maryland.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. All you really need to say is the Cowboys Against the Redskins, and that's about all the build up you need, because these two people flat just don't like each other.

That's my favorite voice, I think, of all time when it comes to the NFL. Pat Summerall, boys and girls. No better way to open the show here on a Friday before the first of two. big-time showdowns down the stretch with the Dallas Cowboys. On the show today, Gary Williams will be with me. Gary will talk Washington, Dallas. He's got a prediction on the game. He watches sports pretty much around the clock.

He's into Taylor Heineke in Washington right now. So we'll talk Washington, Dallas with Gary. And then, of course, we will get into the Maryland basketball situation and talk really about what's next and whether or not he's going to be intimately involved in the process. The show today is presented by my good friends at Wind Nation. Right now, they've got a really good deal going for the rest of this month. You can get a house full of windows for just $99 a month. You'll get 50% off any style window that they have, including Bose, Bays, Double Hung, and Sliders. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com.

I swear to you, it will work out. I have not yet, and this is on my three, boys, I have not yet, over the 12 years that I've been endorsing Wind Donation, gotten one person to complain about their experience. If you don't believe me, call them and just get the free estimate and see how that goes at 86690 Nation or Window Nation.com. They're great. I love them. And if you need new windows, you should get them now because with natural gas prices being where they are, your energy bills are going to be through the roof. All right. Here we go. Round one, Washington, Dallas, my keys to a win over the Cowboys coming up, my prediction on the game coming up in this opening segment.

Before I get to Washington, Dallas, I just wanted to mention a couple of things. First of all, just the crushing story of Demerius Thomas passing away last night at the age of 33 years old. You know, I woke up early this morning and I saw the story. and what I was struck by was the incredible reaction to him. He was clearly beloved by not only his teammates, his coaches, the organization, Denver primarily with whom he played, but reporters who covered him. Nikki Javala covers the Washington football team for the Washington Post.

Before she got to Washington, Nikki covered the Broncos in Denver. She tweeted out the following. late last night. Most people saw what Demarius Thomas could do on the field. Off the field, he was even more special. These are just some of the videos I still have on my phone that I swore I would never delete. Being around little kids was when Demarius seemed the happiest. And she had videos of Demarius Thomas at, you know, I would imagine some sort of charity event or some sort of kids event where he was playing with the kids. There was a holiday event that he was at.

You know, you don't get that a lot from, you know, beat reporters. Somebody that saved the video of him. But the heartbroken response was coming from everywhere. Peyton Manning tweeted out the following. Demerius was a better person than he was a player and was a Hall of Fame player. That tells you how good of a person he was. He treated my kids like they were his own. He was there for every teammates charity event.

I texted with D.T. on Tuesday. He was talking about a TD audible, a touchdown audible that we had called against Arizona in 2014. I'm absolutely devastated. No cause of death. They're just saying it was medical related. But Demarius Thomas was a really good receiver, a five-time Pro Bowl receiver. in the NFL. And I think for many, he'll be remembered for the catch from Tim Tebow in the playoff game in Denver against Pittsburgh back in 2011. It was the first play of overtime.

Nobody thought that Tebow and the Broncos had a chance of beating Rothesberger in Denver. And Tebow found Demarius Thomas on a short pass. He took it to the house. They won the game. But Demarius Thomas was a five-time pro bowler. He's second all-time. in Broncos receiving yards and receiving yards. And up until James White, the running back from New England against Atlanta, set the Super Bowl record with 14 receptions, Demerius Thomas had that record with 13 receptions in Super Bowl 53. I think that was.

Anyway, that was kind of a shocking story from overnight. By the way, the NFL game last night, the Minnesota-Pitsburg game, obviously that impacts the NFC playoff race. What a wild game. Pittsburgh looked dead when they came out, which I thought was a possibility, although I will tell you that right before the kickoff, I wagered on Pittsburgh plus three and a half.

And I did it because we had Paul Chartian, fantasy football expert on the radio show yesterday, Charch is based in the Twin Cities. And he said something that made a lot of sense to me, and that is the players are not going to play for Mike Zimmer. They're done with Mike Zimmer. The town is done with Mike Zimmer. And I just thought short week, they had lost to Detroit on Sunday, and maybe they're going to bail.

And even though it's a short turnaround for Pittsburgh, you know, it's a big high for them off that win over Baltimore. So I took the three and a half. Well, I couldn't have been more wrong, although I was nearly right. Minnesota dominated the first half there of 23-0. It should have been more. The kicker missed a field goal and an extra point, so it should have been at least 27. to nothing. They were up 29 to nothing with like five minutes to go in the third quarter. And then they had a taunting penalty on a third down play on one of their DBs. And instead of

Pittsburgh punting, Minnesota gives up a touchdown. And then Kirk throws an interception, another touchdown. And then Pittsburgh gets the ball back. They score again. And within five minutes, it went from 29-0 to 29-20. On the third touchdown, they went for two, maybe a little bit early, didn't get it, so they were down nine. It was a crazy game because you've never seen a team more dead than the Steelers were. Anyway, Cousins threw a 62-yard touchdown pass to KJ Osborne, and it seemingly seemingly was over at 36 to 20. And then, after a couple of big completions to move the sticks and a run to move the sticks. Kirk throws an interception that almost gets returned for a touchdown. Now, of course, you know I'm going to defend cousins. K.J. Osborne on the slant fell down,

so he's thrown it to a spot on the slant where worst case, if he doesn't trip and fall, it's going to be incomplete. But anyway, Pittsburgh then scores, gets a two-point conversion. It's 36 to 28. And then they had the ball back after Minnesota made a first down and a parent, and looked like they had made another first down on a defensive pass interference penalty on third and five, but the refs picked up the penalty flag, which I actually thought was the right move. And Pittsburgh takes over from their own four-yard line, and they drive it all the way down the field, and they've got a chance with three seconds to go from the 12-yard line. And Friermouth, the big tight end out of Penn State, has it in his hands,

but the safety, Harrison Smith from Minnesota, knocks it out, and Minnesota survives. 3628. It was almost the perfect finish because if they score and they go for two and lose 36, 34, I win my bet. I didn't want overtime at that point because then I could lose the bet at three and a half. Minnesota could score a touchdown and I could lose. So almost one of the all-time miracle covers having the Steelers last night plus three and a half. Man, the Vikings have not played one game this year that hasn't come down to essentially the final drive. were the final play of the game. They're having one of the more remarkable NFL seasons in NFL history,

the biggest point differential, eight points. And in both of those games, they lost one by eight. They had the ball with a chance at the end. And last night, up eight, the other team had a chance with the ball at the end. Every other game has been by seven points or less and decided on the final player final drive. They're too talented to be six and seven. But let me just say, as it relates to the playoff race, that's not a good result for Washington.

They'd like to see all these teams that are five and seven, you know, lose. You know, and so if Washington were to lose a couple of games, eight and nine still might get him in. And I've talked about this, that eight and nine now didn't really feel this way two or three weeks ago. But an eight and nine record given their conference record, it could be good enough for a wild card berth. but we're not talking wild card births now not today we're talking about division titles and they've got a chance at a division title they've got a chance at a lot more than this this is a remarkable turnaround i know we've talked a lot about the suddenness of the turnaround and the unexpected um nature of this turnaround given where we were on Halloween night after the loss to denver but it's such a dramatic turnaround with so many

big games against division teams and division rivals left with a division title still in play and a home playoff game still in play. And if you get a home playoff game, you know, you're going to be playing a lesser-seeded team. You could potentially even win that playoff game. I've sensed this week more than any other after they beat the Raiders in Vegas. A lot of people who are completely checked out are now inching their way back. towards, hmm, well, I'm going to watch the game on Sunday. Well, if anybody's got any extra tickets, I wouldn't mind going to the game on Sunday. I give Ron Rivera a lot of credit for this.

I give the fact that they are a likable team a lot of credit for this. It's not just that they're in the midst of a four-game winning streak. They have leading them perceived. good people and winners. Ron Rivera, John Allen, Terry McLaurin, and certainly Taylor Heineke has captured the imagination of a lot of fans. Look, nationally this game has some big time juice. I mean, yesterday and then last night on the Thursday night game, consistent, now it's a Fox production last night with Buck and Aikman, consistent promotion of Dallas, Washington, at 1 o'clock. Big game. Aikman weighed in with his thoughts. The Bradshaw, Howie Long,

Kurt Menafee group, they weighed in with what they were thinking on the game. This is a big game Sunday. Really, the two biggest games, there's a big game at 1 o'clock, Washington, Dallas, and then there's a pretty good inter-conference game between Buffalo and Tampa at 425. The Monday nighter is pretty good, Cardinals and Rams. But this Washington, Dallas, game, this is a big game on the national scale. It is. It's really important that Washington, if they're going to continue this road to recovery, this road to bringing people back underneath the Washington football tent, Sunday's huge. It doesn't impact their playoff chances if they lose the game. They're still going to be at the end of this week, football week,

Monday night in solid position to still make a run at a wild card birth. But the possibility, the possibility or the opportunity to beat Dallas, to be a game behind the Cowboys going to Philadelphia, to have a chance to win a division, which would be the second straight division title for Washington in a row, the first time since 2003, 2004, that the NFC East would have to have. a repeat division winner, to have a home playoff game with fans, to have a home playoff game very likely against a team that they might even be favored to beat by the time we get there. Man, this opportunity to rope people back in way, way before premature, based on where we were a month ago. It is a stunning turnaround that's created an unbelievable opportunity for the

football team and the business of the football team. I still contend that as long as Snyder owns a team were, you know, one involvement, one pushing of a draft choice, one pushing of a free agent signing, one pushing or really trying to convince somebody into a trade away from being a disaster. And I'm not telling you that I think everybody's rushing back in to root for this team. if they've forgotten the past. But the football side of the operation seems to be a first-rate outfit right now. It does. Ron Rivera is a good coach and a good guy. He's got a good staff, and his best players who are playing their best are real high-quality players and high-quality leaders. That's what they have right now. It's actually a likable team.

somebody said that to me on radio this morning. He said, I'm in. I think they're going to win. And what's brought me back in is they're a likable team. They are a likable team. They're also a physical team. They're tough team. And I think that's the key to Sunday's game against the Cowboys.

But this is a game that's must for Washington. Isn't for Dallas, although imagine the pressure on the Cowboys if they lose this game on Sunday to be only a game up and staring at Washington again on December 26th. All right, I am assuming at this point everybody has heard what Mike McCarthy said yesterday. Did you hear Ron Rivera's response when he went on with Julie Donaldson last night? We'll get to that, plus my keys to a win over the Cowboys, my prediction for the game and a smell test, all of that right after these words, from a few of our sponsors.

Early on, the Redskins embarrassed Dallas, taking a 23-3 lead at halftime. But in the third quarter, too long white to Tony Hill passes triggered another cowboy comeback and the victory, 3130. This afternoon in Texas Stadium Pro Football's greatest rivalry

is raging once again. CBS Sports presents National Football League. Today, the Washington Redskins against the Dallas Cowboys. Texas Stadium is sold out. We're coming to you live from Irving, Texas. $300 of tickets they're talking about to get into this contest, one that has everything.

Dallas and Washington, both with records of 12 and 2, the best in pro football at this point. Many say these are the two best teams in pro football. The weather has cooperated. Couldn't ask for a better day. degrees. The wind northwest 23 miles an hour. It is sunny and clear, and that's the forecast.

The stadium is packed. They've asked the Cowboys have everybody to wear blue, and it looks like those who anticipated a great meeting are going to get just exactly what they hope for. They'd like to hang those redskins. The banners are crammed together throughout

the side of the stadium. Good afternoon. I'm Pat Summerall, and indeed it is a good afternoon. This is one that has everything. There's very little need to say anything else. The NFC championship at stake, the home field advantage in the playoffs at stake, the pressure at stake, everything is here. And a man who has been through all that, who won two Emmys in a row. And again, congratulations to John Madden and also on his great success as the coach of the Oakland Raiders. I can't remember a regular season game with

this much hype and Ballyhoo. Not a regular season game. This is a type of stuff that you get in championships and Super Bowls. And I've never seen Texas Stadium like this. It's just rocking today with all the excitement. This is really what it's all about. That was the open to what was the biggest regular season game, the most hyped regular season game in the history of the Washington-Dallas rivalry. I'm not going to go down nostalgia lane by giving you all sorts of lists today. I've done that in the past. I understand that. But I'm going to tell you simply about this game and quickly about this game. In 1983, when Dallas hosted Washington late in the season on December 11th in the prime afternoon CBS spot

with Pat Summerall and John Madden on the call. Dallas was 12 and 2, Washington was 12 and 2. They had the two best records in the sport. They were the two best teams in the sport. And the hype for this game started three, four, five weeks prior to it. Everybody in the league was pointing towards December 11th and the Washington Dallas game. which would determine the NFC East and the number one overall seed in the NFC playoffs, and that team would be favored to not only go to the Super Bowl, but win the Super Bowl. Think about some of the hype of certain NFL games in recent memory. Like this year, you know, Brady's return to Foxborough when the Bucks played the Patriots on a Sunday night,

that was highly anticipated from the moment the schedule came out. This was highly anticipated during the season, because Washington, two losses were a one-point loss to Dallas in the opener on Monday night football at RFK and a one-point Monday night loss at Lambeau Field against the Green Bay Packers, 48 to 47. Meantime, the Cowboys' two losses had also been narrow losses. They had lost to the Raiders by two points, 40 to 38, and to the Chargers on the road by one point 24-23.

So these were two 12-and-2 teams. In the case of Washington, one of their losses was to the Cowboys. The other one was a one-point loss, and Dallas had two losses by a combined three points. The anticipation and the hype for this game, there's no other game in the history of this series that matches the build-up for this one in the regular season. Obviously, the two championship games that they played against each other in 72 and then after the 82 season, massive build-up for an NFC championship game, I understand it. In terms of regular season games, nothing matched the hype for this one.

And you just heard the open to it. Even Summerall and Madden, who were pretty reserved, certainly Summerall was, understood the magnitude of the game they were going to call. Now, this is the famous fatigues game. Washington got off the team plane in Dallas with many of the players wearing military fatigues. They had come for battles. They had come for a war. And Washington was the better team with, by the way, the better quarterback.

You know, even back then, if you had the better quarterback, and Washington had Joe Thaisman and Dallas had Danny White. And Washington was a better team anyway. They were in the midst of a season that would result amazingly in a plus-42 turnover differential. Plus 42. Nothing's come close to matching that in the history of the game. But Washington was the better team, and they kicked Dallas's ass.

The final score was 31 to 10. It's the famous no-danny, no game with Tom Landry on the sideline. Washington rolled Dallas. They turned them over four times. Rigo went for like 90 yards and two touchdowns. Thaisman threw for 202 touchdowns. He only threw, I was looking at the box score, he was 11 of 17 in the game. He only threw 17 passes in the

entirety of the game. But Washington's defense came up with one big play after another, and they rolled the Cowboys, 31 to 10. They went on to blow out the Rams in the divisional round, 51 to 7. Then they barely beat the 49ers after building a big lead in the NFC title game, 24-21. and then the infamous Super Bowl, Super Bowl 18, when they got run out of the building by Marcus Allen, Jim Plunkett, Cliff Branch, and the Los Angeles Raiders, 38 to 9. But that, and they played a lot of big games, Washington and Dallas did over the years, a lot of major, you know, high-profile NFL regular season games. But in my view, nothing matches the buildup or the hype going into it.

like the 1983 game, round two of that year. This one certainly doesn't match that. But it's been a while, and it's nice to just think about the Washington-Dallas rivalry, meaning something again. All right, I like Washington to really have a decent chance to win the game. I'll give you my prediction in a moment. But I think Washington's keys to a win really start with being the more physical team. I think one of the identifying traits of this four-game winning streak is Washington's been the more physical team on both lines of scrimmage in their four wins.

You know, they've had a tremendous offensive line performance this year, even with the injuries. So much credit goes to John Matzko, the offensive line coach, and to Scott Turner, the offensive coordinator. But they've got a back in Antonio Gibson, who is a downhill physical after, you know, contact, runner. I think Washington's got a chance to run the football and be physical on offense, and then I think they've got a chance to stop the run and be physical on defense. To me, this is where this game, and I know many of you old schoolers would say every game is decided in the trenches, I really think this is a game that gets decided in the trenches. Can Washington's offensive line and it's running back, you know, run to the tune of four

to four and a half to five yards per carry. You know, among the league's leading rushers is Antonio Gibson. He's seventh in the NFL in rushing yardage. But among the top 15 rushers, Antonio Gibson's average yards per carry is 3.9. That's second worst. Only second worst to Najee Harris of the Pittsburgh Steelers, who is two spots ahead of him on the rushing yardage list.

Gibson right now, 800 yards in 12 games, averaging 3.9 yards per carry. But I've mentioned this in recent weeks. You know, the numbers from his last game, I just think, are a bit misleading. And look, they all count, just like a 75-yard run still counts, even if all of the other runs were, you know, three yards per carry. And you end up with a high average yards per carry because of the one big run. Well, last week, he went 23 of, 23 carries for 88-year-old. yards, 3.8 yards per carry. But two runs were completely blown up for minus 7 and minus 3. So you add 10 yards and you say 21 carries for 98 yards. Now you're almost at 5 yards per carry. So I think Gibson has run more like a 4.5 to 5 yard carry per carry guy. Obviously, you want to, you know,

you want to eliminate these, you know, one or two big lost yardage blown up plays a game. But the other 21 carries, pretty damn good. I think Washington beats Dallas if they're able to run the football and win at the line of scrimmage offensively. And then on the flip side, if they're able to stop the run and dominate with their defensive front and their linebackers against Dallas's running game that may or or may not include Tony Pollard. Zeke Elliott, you know, saying that he'll be at 80, 90%. Their backup to Zeke, if Tony Pollard can't go, is Corey Clement, who played with Philadelphia for a few years.

He was a Wisconsin running back. He would be the backup. He's kind of versatile. You know, I think he had a touchdown in that Super Bowl win for Philadelphia. He can catch the ball. He can run the ball. But I don't think he's Tony Pollard. So that would be a big miss for the Cowboys.

You know, Dallas has been run on in recent weeks. New Orleans ran on them, even though it was primarily the quarterback Taysam Hill. I understand that. The Raiders ran on them, and even the chiefs ran on them a little bit. Even if you go back to Dallas's 43 to 3 win over the Falcons a few weeks back, first two drives, Atlanta was running the football. And then the game got out of hand, and they had to throw to try to get back into it. I think Washington can run the football.

And by the way, protect Taylor Heineke, set Taylor Heineke up for play action, for boot, for third makeables. And I think they're going to move the football against Dallas. But run the football, stop the run. These are two key elements to beating the Cowboys on Sunday. Next up in Keys to a win. I think it's really important that Washington continue to be an excellent tax. team, which they have been over these four weeks, especially against this team. They're going to have to be able to tackle in space. Linebackers, corners, safeties. You know, a quick hitch to Amari Cooper has to be a

four or a five-yard play, not a 15 to 25-yard play. Same thing to C.D. Lamb. Same thing if Zeke Elliott catches it on a quick swing or a quick screen. You've got to tackle well in space. space on Sunday. You cannot allow the big play after the catch. I think Washington's been really good at that over the last four weeks, but I think tackling in space against their playmakers, and they've got everybody back with the exception of the possible loss of Tony Pollard. But they're going to have Gallup, Cooper, C.D. Lamb, Schultz, et cetera, they're going to have their players, they're potentially, unless they're without Pollard. And Parsons was on. the injury list yesterday as well defensively, but this may be the health healthiest,

potentially Dallas has been in some time. Tackling in space really, really big in the upcoming game. Lastly, I think I mentioned this yesterday, and if I didn't, if I did, I'm repeating myself, but if I didn't, you're hearing it for the first time. I think that the kickers are going to ultimately decide this game. I just don't see this being a one-sided game. I kind of felt the same way last week about the Raiders game, and I thought it would be decided, you know, I think my final score prediction last week was 27 to 26, and, you know, it was a lower

scoring game, obviously, but I think Brian Johnson and Greg Zerline are going to have a big say in the outcome of this game. You know, there could be a play here or a play there that decides it, you know, a big mistake, a turnover deep in your own territory, a turnover going in for a score. You know, there's always the risk of a penalty derailing a game-winning drive or a significant drive. I just, for whatever reason, have in my thinking about this game, a very close game that is won by a field goal either way. And both of these kickers, Brian Johnson, has not missed a field goal yet and just kicked a game winner in his first opportunity with Washington. He was also eight for eight, remember, in New Orleans, even though he missed three PATs. And by the way,

PATs could have a significant impact on this game as well. Meantime, Greg Zerline, the kicker for the Cowboys, has missed five field goals this year and three extra points. He's had a couple of big kicks, but he's missed some kicks as well. The weather's going to be nice. The field this time of year is never great. It's always a tough stadium to kick in, and I just have a feeling that one of these kickers is going to fail or succeed, and that's going to be the difference in the game. But I think this game really ultimately is decided at the line of scrimmage. That's where I think this game gets decided. You know, remember, Washington ran it down Dallas's throats last year in the two games they played,

but this isn't the same Dallas team. Different defensive coordinator. Obviously, the addition of guys like Parsons and having Randy Gregory back, this is a different Dallas defense team. Teams have run the ball on them. I think keeping those speed playmakers out of the game by not having to throw it too much or more importantly throw it when they're expecting it will be big in this one. By the way, before I get to my prediction, a couple of things that I don't know if I mentioned this yesterday again or not. Sorry, I get mixed up occasionally between what I've said on radio and what I've said on the podcast. So it's better to be repetitive. Ron Rivera's record in December and January in the regular season is 29 and 16, 64.4%. By the way, if you want to listen to my weekly

interview with Ron Rivera, just go to the team 980.com. And it's the first thing in the third hour. You'll find it the team 980.com and just click on the podcasts on the radio show site for my show. Rivera was on with me. I think, by the way, they're going to be wearing white on white Sunday. I think that's what they're going to be wearing, for those of you that care, which means Dallas would be wearing blue. I might be wrong about that, but he's sort of implied that. Ron's record of 64.4% in December, January, similar to Coach Joe's. You know, Coach Joe was outstanding this time of year, and we saw it last year, obviously 1 in 5, 2 and 7, and then to finish 5 and 2. Now, the two key coaches on the other side are Mike McCarthy and Dan Quinn.

Mike McCarthy is the head coach. Ron Rivera's head-to-head with Mike McCarthy, four to two, including the two wins over him last year. He was two and two when he was Carolina's head coach, and McCarthy was Green Bay's head coach. His record against Dan Quinn, who was the defensive coordinator in Seattle and then the head coach in the NFC South for Atlanta, his record is two and nine against Dan Quinn. Now, to quote Ron Rivera or to use one of his favorite sayings, that might be more interesting than important. So I will leave it at that.

That's more interesting than important. Now, my prediction, I like Washington on Sunday, 23 to 20. And I think the storyline of this game is going to be Antonio Gibson and the Washington running game. It was in both of their wins last year over the Cowboys. I think Gibson carries 23 plus times for a buck 25 or more. And Washington wins 23 to 20 in a very close game that like last week could go either way. And one mistake here or there, certainly just one, could be to be the

determine it. You know, I don't think Trayvon Diggs is going to drop a ball right in his hands like Trayvon Mowrig did last week for the Raiders. So you can't have one of those plays and likely get away with it this week. Meantime, how about what Mike McCarthy said yesterday when kind of rambling a little bit about his team in the upcoming game? We're just really focused on self-improvement and winning. You know, we've got to do whatever we've got to do to win the game. But these guys are very accountable. The work ethic of our football team, the whole space is very high. They're very accountable.

We know what people think of us. We love that. We're comfortable who we are, where we are. But I'm excited about what's in front of us because, you know, we're going to win this game. I'm confident in that and just, you know, the prep that's going into it. But, you know, more importantly, we're going to, you know, we want to improve too along the way. So I think that's all part about what the challenge of December football gives you. I'm not so sure Mike McCarthy really meant to create bulletin board material, but he did.

And he was asked about it today at his press conference in Dallas. And he said, quote, it's irrelevant what anybody thinks about what I said. I was talking about my team. I always coach my own team. That's where I'm at with it. We have great confidence in what we're trying to do. It was an honest answer to a question from a great group of people, closed quote, as he buttered up the local. media. Now, Ron Rivera, who joins me on my show, and I did know about the Mike McCarthy

quote from yesterday, and I asked about it, and I said, what do you think? And he was very mum, didn't really say anything. And I said, well, it's not something that's very typical, and he still didn't say much. But he did say a lot last night to Julie Donaldson on the show. I don't know what show it is that she does as it relates to the team. But on a show where she has Ron Rivera on once a week, Ron Rivera did get a little bit wordier and a little bit more in depth on his reaction to what Mike McCarthy had said. Here's what Ron said. Like McCarthy basically guaranteed a win, going out there and saying Dallas will get this victory. What is your response when you hear a head coach saying that? I think it's interesting. I don't think it's important. I think that's the big

mistake is because as far as I'm concerned, you know, you do that for a couple of reasons. One is you want to get in our head. And so I've told our players, this is, that's interesting. It's not important. What's important is our preparation getting ready to play on Sunday. Secondly, he's trying to convince his team, you know. So again, I think that's another mistake because he's now made it about him and what he said. It's not about his players anymore. So I think that's a big mistake. That's why to me, you know, you don't do those things. What you do is you focus in on, you get ready, and you play football. We show up on Sunday and we'll see what happens. Ron Rivera snapping back. I love it. I love it. He's trying to convince his team. He's

now made it about him. I think it's a big mistake. Look, in addition to the rivalry being resuscitated, which would be great news really for this organization here, much more so than in Dallas. It would be great if there was a personal animus between McCarthy and Rivera. That would be awesome, too, just adding to what we would all like to be, you know, a real prominent thing again. By the way, weighing in on everything as he does multiple times a week on local sports talk radio in Dallas is the owner of the Cowboys, Jerry Jones. Jones said about McCarthy's comments, hold on, I have it here. I don't get hung up on the bit about the guarantee. That should be his attitude. He expects to win. He thinks he will win. I expect that. I'd be shocked if he couldn't make that kind of statement, closed quote. That from Jera. By the way, Jera, Jera weighed in. He weighs in on everything, including injury reports and strategy. Can you imagine if Snyder did that? Snyder's on the team 980, two times a week, talking about strategy, talking about injury reports, talking about, you know, the opponent and different things. It's just not him. I mean, he is a record.

loose in terms of being a public figure. His damage has always been done behind the camera or with the cameras turned off. Jerry, by the way, weighed in on a couple of Washington things, including the team name. Here's what he said about the team name. He likes the idea of Washington sticking with the name Washington football team. He said, quote, I think they will do a satisfactory job to me as far as what they ultimately do, but this is a good name, closed quote. We know who Dan looks up to in terms of owners more than anybody.

I would assume that Jerry's made his feelings felt to Dan about the name. I will stick with what I've known or certainly, you know, from a very good source, heard three or four months ago. And that is, it's not going to be, you know, a city-centric name. It's not going to be Washington football team. It's not going to be FC Washington or Washington FC. It's going to be a name that is plural. By the way, Jerry also said this about, by the way, also let me just add,

I think there will be, I don't know when, some sort of an announcement on when the new name will be announced in 2022. The one thing that I would think that they're thinking about maybe is let's not do it too early in 2020. like January or February because we might have a game to be played. Here's the other thing that Jerry said. He said on Cowboys fans in Washington, D.C., quote, We have always sold more Cowboys memorabilia and had our most positive fan support coming from Washington.

Outside of the Texas area, Washington is where we have the most support, closed quote. I don't know that that's true. We know that there are a lot of Cowboys fans here, as there are almost everywhere around the country. It seems like he's trolling us a little bit to suggest that Washington is the number two Cowboys Market in America. It might be, you know, the Post, I think it was Steinberg, who once said that they get more,

other than the activity that they get related to the Washington football, team. They get more activity for the Cowboys and just NFL talk in general, but the Cowboys specifically than any of the other local teams here. I think that's what he said years ago. I don't know. I could be wrong. Okay, let's finish up this segment with the smell test. Kevin looks where the John Q Public is putting their cash and does the opposite. It's time for the smell test. The smell test presented by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.com. or my bookie.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. And they will instantly double your deposit, your first deposit, all the way up to $1,000. If you're planning on betting on football this weekend

and that you've already got a spot that you're betting through, sign up at MyBooky, take the free cash, and use My Booky as a way to compare point spreads and money lines and totals and any prop bets that you're betting on. I promise you it is safe. I also, promise you that their pricing is more likely than not much better than the pricing you're getting currently. You're not going to pay minus 125 on a straight bet. You're going to pay on average minus 110, sometimes less on a straight bet, maybe sometimes a little bit more if you're buying a half point here or there. But MyBooky is safe. Go to mybooky.com, mybooky.orgie.orgie. If something's already written in the promo code section, erase it, put Kevin DC, and they will double your first deposit.

your first deposit all the way up to $1,000. Take the free money if you're betting. If you've already signed up with MyBookie, reload and at least use it for a place to comparison shop, maybe put a couple hundred bucks in there so you at least have access to betting some games if you end up getting a much better number. Big difference between if you want to play Washington at plus four and a half or plus three and a half. It's a major difference.

There's a big difference between plus four and a half. and plus four. So think about those things. If you're doing this the right way, and you should, of course, be careful if you're doing this at all. But if you're doing this the right way, having one place where you wager is stupid. Use MyBooky as your second or third place at mybooky.com,

mybooky.orgie.ag. And again, use my promo code, Kevin D.C. 7 and 1 last week. I'm now a game above 500. For the first time this year. a nice run over the last month. No college football other than Army Navy tomorrow. I like Navy a little bit, but they're not a smell test pick. They're getting seven, seven and a half, eight somewhere in that neighborhood. But seven and one last week, 72, 71 and four on this season now.

I've got four NFL picks for Sunday. Houston got shut out last week. Seattle had that amazing win over San Francisco. Seattle's laying eight and a half at Houston, and the public now is right back on Russell Wilson and the Seahawks. I'll take the Texans plus eight and a half. The big 425 game Sunday is Buffalo at Tampa. Buffalo coming off that crazy Monday night wind tunnel game loss to New England. The Buccaneers beat the Falcons last week pretty handily. The public is backing Brady at home. I think the bills rise up and have a really good game Sunday. I like the Bills plus three and a half. I like the Bears. I like the Bears. plus 12 and a half. I know the number is big, but it's come down from 13, 13.13.5. Public action is on

Green Bay, and the Bears will be playing Justin Fields again on Sunday night. He played his best game before he got hurt in that Monday nighter against the Steelers. I think the Bears are pretty good defensively. Would not surprise me if this is like a low-scoring, you know, 24 to 13 kind of a game, 24-14, something like that. I think the Bears plus 12 and a half gets it done. And then Monday night's game, the world is on Arizona. I'll take the Rams by the half point, get it to three, the Rams plus three. So just four plays this weekend without the college football.

And really an NFL card that's exciting. There's some really good matchups in the NFL on Sunday. In addition to Cowboys, Washington at one, you've got Ravens, Browns, Raiders chiefs. And then at 425, you've got Bill's Bucks. And then 49ers at Bengals, a big game in the NFC wild card race. The 49ers are one and a half point favorites because Joe Burroughs, you know, injured. And there is some expectation that he may play, but not at 100%.

That obviously is a big difference maker in that one. And then the Monday night game is great. You know, Rams at Cardinals will see, you know, the Cardinals, I'm not a believer. But man, in every big spot they've had with Kyler Murray or even without them, they've pretty much come through. This is a big one for the Rams. You know, they have, if they want to get back into this division race, they have to win. That would cut the Cardinals lead to one game. But if they lose to the Cardinals, they still have Ravens, 49ers, Vikings on the road in Seahawks.

You know, I don't think they're an absolute lock to make the postseason. I think they will, but I don't think it would be like a hundred. 100% lock to make the postseason. So there you go. Smell test, some of the games on Sunday. Obviously the game we're most interested in is Washington, Dallas. You know, Washington just practiced today. Right now, Schweitzer is out, but Collins, McKissick, Davis, and Samuel, all listed as questionable.

Micah Parsons would be the big one if he's not 100 percent. Tony Pollard. same thing. That would be huge for Washington if either one of those two players are out or compromised. The point spreads four and a half. Obviously, I gave you my final score prediction of 2320, which tells you I like Washington plus the four and a half. As far as the total goes, it's at about 48. So I guess 2320 tells you I'd lean a little bit under. The weather's supposed to be great. you get this one and it's a whole new conversation. We've sort of said that the last couple of weeks, right?

It's like, God, if they beat Carolina, if they beat Seattle now, and if they beat the Raiders, they're 500, and they're actually back in the division race. We're not even talking about only wild card anymore. They get Philly next week. Remember that. Philly's on a buy week. They get Philly next week. And the look ahead line, by the way, is Philadelphia a two and a half to three-point favorite.

The Eagles have been playing very. very well. We're focused and dialed in on this Dallas game, but it's Dallas Philly, Dallas Philly over the next four weeks. And Philadelphia has played very well. And they are rooting for Washington to a certain degree. And really any result for Philadelphia is not a bad result because Washington losing gives them a better chance of the wild card. But Washington winning puts them back actually into the division race, where they would play Washington next week. Okay, we'll finish up the show with Gary Williams right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, let's bring on Hall of Fame coach Gary Williams onto the podcast.

And Gary's on today. We're going to talk about the Maryland job, which will potentially be open at the end of the year. I think most people assume that it will be. We'll get to that in a moment. But Gary, as most of you know, is a huge sports fan. more of a Ravens fan than he is anything else. But what do you make? Because you watch a lot of sports,

you watch a lot of football. What do you make of Washington's chances against Dallas on Sunday? Well, I think all coaches really enjoy watching the Washington football team right now because of the way they're playing. It looks like what every coach wants is the team. Everybody's contributing.

Everybody's doing a good job. The quarterback, Heinke, He's never his name. Yeah. He's come in and, you know, just establish that he's going to try to win the game. He's willing to do whatever takes to win the game. And that's a great thing. And, you know, the defense loses probably their most famous player, their defensive end,

and yet they're playing great defense now. So it's a team thing. And I think anybody that's a fan of sports, fan of team sports, really enjoys watching Washington right now. You know, this is, Gary, really the first game against the Cowboys in a long time late in the season that's really meant something. And, you know, being on the air every single day this week, I've just gotten this sense that a lot of people want this rivalry to be back. And Mike McCarthy, the head coach of the Cowboys, predicted yesterday that they were going to win. And then Ron Rivera sort of came back and said, that's probably not the right thing to do.

it's a mistake, you know. And so we've got the talking going back and forth. You know, you were obviously a part of Maryland's biggest rivalry and all of those games against Duke. Is a rivalry game in preparation much different than any other game? Well, I think, you know, every coach would say, no, it's just, you know, it's our next game. We've got to get ready for our next game. It happens to be Dallas.

But, hey, the players know, the coaches know. what McCarthy said was great because, you know, that's just, you know, that's on the Bolton board all over the place at Redskins Park. But players, you know, they like that. They like Rivera coming back and saying something back. You know, this is, you know, in the age of political correctness, this is great for the fans. Right. Coach is actually, you know, McCarthy gets out there and he says, we're going to win the game. Well, oh, you can't say that.

Yes, you can. You can say that if you believe it, your players believe it. you know, there's nothing wrong with that. But then if you're Ron Rivera, it's great that he comes back and says, whoa, that might be a little stepping over the line right there before we even play. So, yes, that's the great thing about rivalries, you know, things like that happen. We don't have enough of them anymore. It's just great to see.

Did you ever in, you know, a rivalry game, let's just say against Duke, do you remember any specific bulletin board material that was provided by the opponent, whether it was Coach K or a player or anything that you wished one of your players or you didn't say. Do you remember any kind of situation like that? Yeah, the first year we were good when we had three freshmen and two sophomores, or three sophomores and two freshmen, Joe Smith, Keith Booth, actually had Duane Simpkins and Johnny Rhodes. We were playing Duke at Duke and Dornham, and Dwayne Simpkins held a grudge against Duke

because they didn't recruit them. So before the game, the day before the game at the press conference, Dwayne said that Duke basically was overrated. So he only lost by 20, you know. So I guess that they weren't overrated. But, you know, things like that happened. Oh, and I remember JJ Redick before they played us here, they asked him what he did before the game to kind of get ready to play.

He said, well, I'd like to read poetry. I want to hear JJ read it quote a poem sometime. You know, it's like, come on. And our players really got on that hard. You know, they like that. So there's, and that's great things. That's the way to shoot that sports. You know, everything doesn't have to be, you know,

dictated into a certain uniform way. You know, there should be things like that that happen. Did you, when Simpkins said what he said, do you remember what your reaction was? Did you care? Yeah, I tried to kill him, yeah. It was like, you played for Morgan Wooden, right? Didn't Morgan tell you about those things?

It's like, oh, man, that was, you know, and you walk out there and you just see Schovesky knowing that, like, they're going to go after Simpkins really hard, you know, and that's, you know, those two teams back then, and they played defense like it was hard to complete a pass to get into your offense at Duke. Yeah, God, you know, I remember some of those games where their man-to-man was,

extended way out, and it really was, it was hard to run offense against them. Yeah, we changed our offense going into Duke. We didn't change for many people, but we would dribble action into the offense, so we didn't have to make that first pass. In other words, we just kind of got our point guard to take the ball down where, say, a former would normally receive the pass, and then just switch positions that that guy would go back to where the point guard started from, and then we could run our offense from there.

But they were, that Grand Hill, Hurley, Latelytner, and those guys, Davis, they, they, they was good a defensive team in college. You had two right then. You had Las Vegas with Larry Johnson, Stacey Ogman, with their full court pressure. Then you had Duke with their half-court defense, which was as good as anybody we ever played against in the 22 years I was in Merrill. I'm sure we've talked about this, but who cares? I think that the UNLV team of 90 and 91

is that those are the best college teams I've ever watched. Yeah, I think as a team, they were incredible. You know, I go back to Alcindor, obviously now Kareem, Abduljibar, but those teams were so talented. I mean, you know, Swin Nader never saw the floor. You know, people like that played successfully in the NBA. You know, they just, every position was like, you know, a really good player. And, you know, it's, you don't see teams like that anymore because that many good players don't stay together for four years.

So you're not going to get that continuity. And anytime you lose continuity, I don't care how good your talent is you're not going to be as good if you have the same talent with continuity. Yeah, I mean, that team, by the way, Swen Nader is seven foot or two. I mean, those UCLA teams must have been like many of the Alabama football teams in recent years where, you know, all of a sudden there's like some Alabama player in the NFL playing really well and you don't even remember him playing in college because he didn't, you know, he didn't get much run. But that UNLV team with Larry Johnson, who was a man, you know, at 21 years old or whatever, Stacey Ogman, who was one of the best defenders, you know, in college basketball, Greg Anthony. all of those guys are incredible. And I'm curious. Did you think Tark was a good coach?

Yeah, I thought he was a very good coach because he got really talented players to play defense. I mean, those guys sacrificed it. Players don't want to play pressure defense. You know, they look at the other teams and they're only playing 25 feet of defense. And then Tark's asking those guys to go out and play really good ball handlers,

94 feet at the court, and get up into passing lanes and overplay every pass. That takes a lot out of you. and a lot of players, you know, that hurts their offense. It takes away something from their legs where they can't get up as high, you know, things like that. So I thought Tark did a great job convincing really good players that this is the way we can have the best team. But he was right. You know, he was good.

Plus, all coaches like Tark Canyon. You know, he had his, you know, he obviously did some things, you know, violated the NCAA rules. But at the same time, if he sat around and talk basketball with Tark, he didn't care if he were a high school coach, college coached, coach at Lafayette, wherever. If he wanted to talk basketball with him, he was ready. And I think coaches appreciate that from a guy like Jerry Tarkini. Did you ever coach against him? No, I don't think we ever played Vegas anywhere.

You know, I was. And I'm glad I didn't those two years you mentioned. Yeah, right. You know, it's like, because you can't. See, the other thing with playing that way, you can't prepare and practice because you don't have guys that can do what they do. And, you know, it's, you only see it once or twice a year. It's like pressure defense zone pressure defense now.

How many teams press? So if you run into a team that presses, you're going to really struggle because if you don't press, you can't duplicate it in practice. So it's basketball's a great game. There's a lot of ways to play it. That is such an interesting point, just that when you're preparing for a team that's loaded like that, how do you even, you know, practice for it? I remember, I think you gave me.

this advice many several years ago. And you said, you know, don't run your kids on wind sprints or suicides. Have them practice press break and pressing because they're going to get the same cardio workout and it's all basketball. You know, and you turn on the scoreboard. Any time you turn on the scoreboard and practice players like that, you know, they said it just doing some ball handling drill or sprints like you said, you know, come on. What do you want to do?

Plus, you know, you start a team on free throw line, you know, regular free throw situations so that, you know, you get pressure right away on a free throw situation. And then I've always felt coaches blow their whistle too many times in practice so that now the other team, you know, breaks your press, they go down, they score. Well, they have to get their press up. And so all of a sudden you've got 10 guys out there, which is all you're going to play at the most in any game anyway. and they're running hard, but they're liking it because they're playing basketball. Yeah, exactly. Back to just the rivalry stuff for a moment. You know, there was all of those stories about how Maryland students would get like

JJ Redick's cell phone number or, you know, somebody's information and they would be, you know, they'd be calling them at all hours of the night. Were you familiar with that stuff going on? And then on the flip side, what do you? you remember as like a story of something happening to your players in one of those rivalry games? Well, yeah, I do remember that, and I'm sure that happened. You know, we have good students at Maryland. They're very creative.

I like our students. You know, I'm tired of our students being criticized, by the way. I'd like to say that, hey, our students get into it. The ones that aren't from Maryland are from New Jersey in New York. So they've got a little egg student. But at the same time, we're not as bad as, you know, we're no worse than anybody else. And this whole narrative now about our students, this, our students said, give me a break. You know, they're great fans.

And we need them at the games. We need them at the games. So anyway, the one thing I can remember is we went down to play at Duke. That's because sophomore year, and he started the, you know, by the time he was a sophomore, he had a little bit of name. And, of course, he was a little crazy with the show. shimmy after he made a three, you know, and stuff like that. So we go up, you know, it's an 8 o'clock game. He went to shoot about 6 o'clock before we actually have your pregame warmup.

And those little Duke students down there, they had printed out sheets with things to say to Vasquez in Spanish. Okay? So they're all there. Obviously, six o'clock, those idiots that sit right there at the scorestable or right on the other side from the scorestable. They started chanting things to Vasquez in Spanish. And so he plays great that night.

We win at Duke. He finishes it off with like a layup with 10 seconds left to put us up by 5 or something like that. So he makes the shot, and everybody knows what camera looks like. And he goes in, makes it, and then circles around right by all those crazy. And whatever he said, and he said it in Spanish to them, didn't go over, real well with a Duke student body right there. And it was tremendous. You know, and like,

and guys like that, see, I know Mike Shosheski really like Gravis Vasquez. And people might not believe that. But he did because he had the courage to play like he wanted to play. I mean, that's a lot of guys, you know,

they hide their emotions when they play and it hurts them a little bit. You know, basketball's an emotional game. It's okay to show, you know, what kind of person you or what kind of player you are. Do you know what he said? No, I asked him, and he just said, Coach, you don't want to know.

I said, okay. You know, I think Shishovsky's all-time favorite Maryland player was Juan Dixon. Do you agree? Oh, without a doubt. A quick story on that, they have a fantasy camp down there. I think you've got to be 35,

and they invite, you know, everybody back. All the former players that's still, play a little bit to be like counselors and play against the campers and things like that. And so the one year he had like an ACC All-Star team guys that had graduated and he brought him in to play against the campers. He introduced Juan Dixon at that time. So this is 2002 as the best visiting player ever to play against his team because one had 32 I think in 36 and a couple back-to-back games or whatever. And so that was impressive when you take of Michael Jordan and more of the, you know, guys like that that have been in the ACC, the great players that have been in the ACC.

But Juan had tremendous courage. You know, he would play better in tough situations where everybody knew, you know, you're going into Cameron to play how tough that is. One would play better there than he would at some places that didn't have the same atmosphere. Yeah, you know what's funny about in talking about Juan Dixon. Like obviously by the time he became a junior and a senior, we all realized how good he was. You knew before anybody. You know, I remember that night where he went for 31 in Cameron and Dorn.

And he also had, I think, like five or six steals two in the game, which was incredible. But I remember even as a freshman and then as a sophomore, you guys played at MCI Center, Capital One Bank, whatever, you know, was called back then. You guys played Illinois in a game, and it was one of those, you know, that tournament that you would play somebody and then eventually the BB&T, thank you. And one wasn't, you know, the prominent player on the team. And it was early in the season, his sophomore year.

And he took the last shot and made it. And I just remember thinking, this dude's just going to be a big time score. And he's fearless. Like there was nothing about him that had him backing off. Like, when did you realize with him that you had a guy that was going to be spectacular? You know, I think people forget. Juan had to sit out. It was either a semester or the whole first year.

And so we played in the Garden in New York against Kentucky in the Coaches v. Cancer thing. The first year, Juan could play. And, you know, Blake, we're young. You know, we're down 16 to Kentucky, and we come back. We're coming back. And we finally get the ball, like, 16 seconds left. We get a timeout, and we're down to. And so we set up a play, and it was to get the ball inside.

And coming out of the huddle, Juan asked me why he did, the play wasn't run for him. And I said, well, you're four for 16 from the field. And he looked at me like, yeah, but I'm going to make my next shot. you know, and that's when you know when you can't shake guys. In other words, a lot of times in practice, you put pressure on, at least I used to put pressure on players to see how they respond because you don't want to wait until a game to find out how your player is going to respond. You've got to find out in practice.

So sometimes practices can get ugly because of that, but I always like that part of it. But anyway, so now Juan doesn't take the shot, we miss, you know, whatever. The quirk of the schedule was that. that we had a return game. We played down at Kentucky with Steve Francis. We had a return game for Cole Fieldhouse coming in that December, like three weeks later. Tubby Smith.

Tubby Smith was the coach. Yeah, yeah. Tubby's good friend of mine. And like a Maryland guy, by the way, who was going to go to Maryland except Lefty did not. You know, the coached Frank Fellows said, offered Tubby the scholarship. Lefty came in and told him he wasn't good enough. And the tubby went, I don't know, somewhere in North Carolina, I guess, to school. But Tubby still tells that story.

But anyway, there was a loose ball. And back then, you could, you know, as the ball's going out of bounds, you could go up in the air to save the ball and call timeout while you were in the air. You didn't have to have the foot on the floor like you do now. Right. And Juan made that play with 20 seconds left, and we won the game because that gave us possession. We were already up a couple. Yeah, that was.

Well, mom was different. I mean, he was wired different than most guys you'll ever have a chance to coach because you couldn't shake his confidence, number one. And when he was a junior in high school at the Calvert Hall in Baltimore, he wouldn't even look at you when I recruited him. He was so shy that he wouldn't talk to anybody. But at the time, he was a junior in Maryland, you couldn't get him away from a microphone.

If he saw a microphone, he thought it was his. Well, that's incredible, too, right? Just the growth personally. You know, I mean, you know, everybody knows his background. I mean, he has really a tough background and all that. And he went from, I think the way he handled that was just to be a basketball player and not be around a lot of people because he was kind of embarrassed. By the way, you know, he grew up and things like that.

And that's where college is so good for so many guys, you know, where, you know, they do benefit from playing a sport. And, you know, that's kind of out of the narrative now. people don't understand that still happens. That can happen today very easily. You can change a guy's life, you know, just because you've got a chance to play a sport and be in front of people and have to deal with media and all those things. That's a great learning experience.

That's probably better than any course you could ever take in college. Yeah. Just all the life experiences that you get from that. You know, I didn't mean to get sidetracked on one, but I always love when we'd we do this. He was obviously one of the more prolific scores ever, the most prolific score in the history of the school, and one of the clutch players of all time. But do you think you ever had a guy defensively that sort of anticipated and sniffed out steals from off the ball better than him? No, you know, it was like a love-hate thing with that part of the game.

Because he would miss sometimes. Take such big plays. Right. You know, like that game you mentioned against Duke. I mean, he broke the momentum two different times by getting the steel going down and laying it in. And, you know, you need that that's why you have a good team. You need guys that, like Juan will gamble. And he drive you nuts.

You know, he didn't even know where his man was sometimes where he was playing defense. You know, and he didn't care. He was looking for the ball because he knew if he got it and he could score. And he had that great scorer's mentality. Right. But yet, you know, then the other guys, they're playing solid defense. And if you have, you know, Chris Wilcox and Lonnie Baxter behind him, they certainly, if his man did get loose and it was going to shoot a layup, well, it was not a guarantee that they're on a score because of the big men we had back then. And, you know, that's why we were a very good defensive team and, you know, could play with anybody.

And so, but he's just, he was unique, you know. in the way he could play. Yeah, I mean, he was such a good off-ball defender because he wasn't worried about his own man. Yeah, he didn't have any faces. Yeah, he didn't have any pay. You know, he played solid defense for like six seconds that he did the heck with this.

Let's go steal it, you know. That's why he was a great pressing player, too. Let's talk about the Maryland situation. I guess the first question I would ask you, because I want to look forward mostly with you, because I know that you hopefully will be involved in this process. Every single person would want you to be involved. But on some level, as much as everybody likes Mark and respects Mark,

and I know you do too, was it kind of time for a change? Well, I think everybody was surprised that it happened when it did. Right. I mean, nobody in Texas, if anybody said, well, they knew it was coming. They're wrong. You know, they didn't know it was coming. I'm not sure Mark did. You know, I think he just, you know, it happens.

You know, you reach a point where you make that decision. And so, you know, Mark really knew the game. Obviously, he was a great, he played on a great team, you know, in Kansas, and played for Larry Brown, tremendous coaching background, all those things. And I think Mark's toughest thing here was making, you know, the adjustment to an East Coast mentality, if that makes any sense, just the idea that people that live here are wired a little differently, this was his first taste of being in a pro town as a coach,

which is completely different than Kansas than someplace like that. And, you know, all those things go into what makes you feel good about a job. And I've always felt that, you know, you do your best coach. job where you're comfortable. You have to be comfortable in a job situation. I was from New Jersey. You know, I grew up, you know, Palesstra, watching the Sixers play, you know,

all those things. It gives you a certain edge to you. And so when I came down to Maryland to go to school, you know, I was, I was ready to take that on. And then when I came back from Ohio State, you know, I knew what I was getting into, you know, in terms of what the D.C., Baltimore where it was like and all those things.

So, you know, you fight it, you do it. And I think it can wear you down. There's no doubt about it. It can wear you down. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's Maryland, you know, it's, it's not just that it's, it's a northeast slash mid-Atlantic school. It's got a massive northeast influence, as you mentioned earlier, and I know this as an alum, you know, it's a lot of, you know, Long Island, New York, Jersey, and Philly, you know, that you have a lot of that in the student body. You end up having a lot of that

as part of the fan base, which, by the way, is why it's, you know, one of the reasons it's been so great and so passionate, and we've had one of the best home court environments for years because of that. But, you know, it's demanding, but wouldn't you rather have demanding than people that, you know, that we're, or be at a place where it's not important? I mean, I, I, I, I coached an American U. We had a player of games at Fort Meyer over in Virginia. And, you know, if you got 300 people there to some games, you were happy, you know. And, like, that's tough because you get no emotion drilled into your team from the crowd.

Boston College wasn't a great situation because, you know, of the pro-town and BC had outstanding ice hockey. and Doug Flutie was there the four years I was there. So you had all that going. Ohio State was great because that's a football school, but those fans would come to basketball games, and they really helped you to be good. You were the only show in town. So I coached in that environment where you were the show.

You weren't as big as the football coach, but you were big. And people socially felt like they had to go to Ohio State basketball games to be part of the in crowd. And so I experienced that with them. when I came to Maryland, you know, we had a fight back. We had a fight back to get the crowd back because of what had happened with bias and Bob Wade and things like that. And so it took some time, but once you got that going, hey, but there was no better place in the country to play than Cole Fieldhouse, you know, back, you know, the mid-90s through, you know,

2002 when we left there. And it was just a great experience for me as a coach. And then Xfinity is a little different. You know, it's big. It's 19,000 seats, and it's hard to fill that thing. But, you know, as a coach, you have to be a promoter. I've always felt that in this town that you have to promote. You have to fight for your share of the media market. You have to fight for your share of the crowd.

I mean, how much money does most people have in terms of entertainment dollars? Take your kids to games, things like that. And it gets expensive. So you have to make it so that they would rather be an infinity than somewhere else. And that's not easy to do. But it's part of your job here. In other words, that's what you have to take on as part of your job. If you have to go out and speak at night after practice,

when you're tired as hell after practice, you do it. I spoke 65 times the first year I was in Maryland, 89, 90, during the season, just because I knew we needed the fan base back. and I was willing to do whatever it took to do that. And so hopefully, you know, the new coach comes in. He won't have to do that because, you know, that the program's a little different where it is now than compared to 89-90. But at the same time, you might have to work a little harder.

You might have to do a few more things than you're used to doing. But it is a great job. It is a program that should be consistently top 15, top 20 every year, given the fact that we have a great president now in Darrell Pines, who really cares, gets athletics. His son was an All-American soccer player, won a national championship in Maryland, playing in a North American soccer league, you know, all those things.

And so we've got a great opportunity right now. All right. What does Maryland want? What kind of coach do you think we should be looking for? I think has to have some charisma with him that will have an edge that some people

most people hopefully will like some won't like but like the coach will like the fact that there is some discussion about him as a coach to keep the the flame going in the program and then he

has to find a way to recruit locally. You know, I wrote some things down during the 22 years I was there about local recruiting, you know, and I got not pretty good, especially with one local AAU coach. But we had, you know, at least 20 local players that we recruited between Baltimore and Washington. And so I think that's really a key is to be able to get it because the Catholic League right now in D.C. That's the best league in a country. Most coaches throughout the country will tell you that college coaches.

That is the best high school league in the country. We have to get some of those players. So obviously, the connection, and you don't have to know anybody now, but that's one of the things you have to do as a coach coming in here now in 2012, is being able to get involved in those kids because there's too many good players in that league, just for example.

And, you know, they throw in Baltimore, You throw in Prince George's County. You know, there's a lot of good players around here. Right. Will, so the kind of coach has to have some charisma, obviously has to really sink his teeth into local recruiting. You know, all the things that we all know that are great about the job, the local hotbed.

Yeah, go ahead. The other thing is style of play is important to a coach coming in. They have to be aggressive. And it doesn't matter what, you know, Jim Beheim's an aggressive coach. He plays two, three zone as his base defense, but he's an aggressive coach. And so you need that. You know, you know nobody's going to come in to the dome and, you know, overwhelmed

Beheim because he's, you know, he's been there forever. But beside that, he was always like that, you know, he'll fight you if he has to fight you. And I think that's, you know, very important for the next coach. All right. will you be involved in the search for a new coach? I hope so. I want to be. I feel I can give back to the school and see that's the other thing.

You know, we're talking about coaching. Well, we have to also get everything together. In other words, whether you play the lefty, myself, Bob Wade, Mark Furgeon, we've got to be all into whatever happens next. The fans have to feel the same. They all had their favorite coaches. That's fine. But they'll got to be together.

And Kevin, you know this is a woman. The state has to understand what the University of Maryland College Park is to this state. You know, we're good. You know, it's incredible how the state benefits from Maryland basketball. And I'm not afraid to say that now. You know, I've been out of it long enough where I can get after it pretty good. You know, the energy I had as a coach, I don't have as much energy now, but I still have that same passion. and I can certainly make that point to whoever wants to hear it.

Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, just in general, it's not only just, it's phenomenal for a university when it's basketball or football programs are of national prominence, what it does to the number of applicants, and then that allows you to be more discerning with those applicants, which means it raises the profile of the student, et cetera, et cetera. We've seen that, you know, sort of thing, you know, in effect, over the years. I mean, we saw it after you, you know, turned this program into a national

championship contender over a long period of time, what it did to the school's overall profile. I mean, you might not take credit for that, but I think you probably deserve a hell of a lot of credit for the school going from a school where when I went to it, you basically, if you had a pulse, you could get in if you lived in state, to being now one of the most difficult state schools to get into too hard, in my opinion, for in-state students. I think it should be a little bit more accommodating for in-state students. But, you know, the basketball program did that. A lot of the credit goes to the basketball program all over all those years.

Yeah, I think, you know, you can go back to lefty on that, too. Yeah. What he did, the charisma he brought, that wasn't just through the college park. That was statewide. Then it became national. You know, the fact that, you know, everybody knew who Lector-Dazel was. Everybody got excited, you know, when it was in Maryland basketball. And we became a national story.

I mean, I was coaching other places then. I could see it from a out-of-town look, you know, how important that was. And, you know, that's the one thing I knew coming in. I had to do those things because, you know, what it can mean to the state is incredible. What it does for the university, just a positive vibe on campus. You know, I saw it when we were good or when football was good, you know, how important that is for the mental health of the university. It's just a great thing. It's there.

You know what I mean? Everything has to fall into place, especially, you know, once again, going back to the metropolitan area, everything has to fall in place. But when you have the administration, you know, that is very supportive, which, you know, I'll be jealous of. let's put it that way, when that does happen with the new coach, but I'm glad it is happening for the new coach's sake. And, you know, you have that, and then you have the support. We have to get back the season ticket holders. We've lost quite a few season ticket holders in the last few years, to be honest,

and we've got to get them back. Because those people, you know, are usually some pretty important people in the community, and we need them at the games, you know, that there's nothing better than having, you know, Steve DeShoddy or somebody like that sitting courtside. You know, we need all those things. And, you know, that's part of it. It's just a cool program, you know, people like that.

You know, it's cool when you see that. So there's a lot of things to do, but at the same time, we have as many Maryland grads in this area that are willing to help that probably haven't been called on for a while. And we need those people to give us their expertise, whatever that is, you know, and to make us better. You know, how can we market better, you know, our basketball and football programs?

Because, hey, we're playing in a Big Ten. We're in as good a conference as there is in the country. It's a great academic conference in addition to the sports side of it. And it's football and basketball. You know, all the other sports are great. You know, and nobody's had more success in the Big Ten in the Olympic Sports than the University of Maryland since we've been in there. But, you know, we all know.

You've got to get it done in football and basketball. And so that's why the future looks great. You know, Loxley's in a bowl game this year. And now we're going to have a new coach come in. And, you know, it's going to be wild, you know, if we can get it going in the right direction. Do you think the school will hesitate to hire a guy with a controversial past? Like just as an example, a Rick Petino. You know, if, and I'm just using him as an example, but do you think,

think the school is going to have an issue with a controversial past? Well, there will be people that might have that issue without a doubt. But at the same time, you have to look at what somebody can do for a university right now. In other words, Rick, Rick has paid the price. He was let go at Louisville. He had to go overseas and coach. He's at a mid-major type situation now. And he's got to, you know, that's the way it's worked for him.

But, you know, once again, we're just using Rick as an example. There's no better coach. He's going to push you in a position to be on the national stage every year that he coaches. I think he's 66 now or 67, but he's young. You know, he's still relatively young in terms of how he feels and everything. So somebody like that, yeah, that'd be controversial, but you know what? That would last, that'd be a one-week story, you know, the controversy part of it, then how are you going to be this year?

You know, what's going to be like. Do you know him? Are you friends with him? I know him very well. Yeah. Yeah, I've known Rick a long time. We've played a Hall of Fame game up in Madison. Massachusetts one time.

So I know it pretty well. And, you know, I, and here's the other thing. Now with the likeness thing and the transfer portals, you better have somebody wheeling and dealing a little bit because, hey, there's no more violations for giving guys money or anything like that. Let's get serious. You know, guys, you know, they use the likeness as an excuse. You know, there's already been bidding wars on, you know, the best players, you know, with big time.

With the NIL, yeah. Yeah, putting together the NIL. So, you know, I mean, we need somebody in here that can handle that, too. In other words, I couldn't, I don't know how that works. You know, I don't know how to handle that. You could find somebody to do that for you. Sure. I mean, the bottom line with the whole, you know, people that say, well, we can't go down that path.

of what happened at Louisville or whatever. Winning plus exciting winning equals significant increase in revenue and a forgetting of whatever happened in the past. Very quickly, as you said. I mean, I'm ready for somebody to come in here and be a rainmaker. I mean, do you think, and a great coach, because you want a great coach too, but this program is in need of a jolt. Yeah, and that's really a good point.

You have to be very careful where we are right now with the program. We're kind of on that line where, yeah, Maryland basketball is still, you know, good and all this. But at the same time, you know, it wouldn't take much to go the other way where you become irrelevant very quickly in today's, you know, media and things like that. And so we have to make sure that we're going to get a lot of attention with the hire and that people are going to say, wow, you know, I've got to watch this. This is going to be really interesting. Whatever happens, it's going to be interesting. And see, I've changed on that.

I've changed. Whether people like it or not, college football and college basketball, we're a professional organization now. I'm talking about the power conferences in the Big East, you know, in basketball. and all that because this thing with paying players now, which the likeness, that's what the likeness is, has changed all that. You know, there's no more, oh, you know,

I really pisses me off. We have to play against some guy that's paying his players. I know he's playing his players. Well, we should be playing our players, just doing it legally, you know, through the likeness opportunities that are there. So here we go. Let's go.

This is a big time in college sports right now. The transfer portal thrown in, that. You know, you need a guy in here. The players are going to say, man, that guy coached, you know, he coached in the NBA. He coached in college. You know, that's pretty cool. I'm going to look at that if I'm unhappy where I am. Yeah, I think, you know, taking some sort of leap on somebody without a resume because you think he's going to develop into something. I personally think that that's way too high risk. You don't, what you've said is It makes so much sense, and obviously I've had these conversations with so many people, you know, who are alums and fans and the whole thing.

And it's like, look, it can get worse. Look at what happened to NC State. You and I have talked about NC State from so many times over the years. Herb Sendeck was taking that team. Herb Sondek was the best coach that's been there for, what, 20 years now? Yeah, and they ran him because all he was doing was making the tournament every year. and winning a game instead of winning three games in the tournament, which, and they ran him and they've never been the same since, really.

So, and that's a two-time national championship program. So this is the perfect time with NIL, with transfer portal, with it becoming even much more of a business than it ever was. And this opportunity, Gary, is so huge. It's the arena. It's the fan base. It's the league. You've got my speech.

Yeah. If I'm on that committee, you've got my speech. That's exactly what I'm saying. And, Kevin, I guarantee you one thing. I have nothing to hold back because, you know, I'm not getting any younger. And my goal right now today, December 10th, is to see Maryland win another national championship. I really want that to happen to the school because we deserve it. You know, we're a good enough school, we're a good enough program.

We deserve to be able to do that again. And I think that separates you when you won one national championship. All of a sudden you won two, that just puts you to a different level. And I think that's what we have to do. And I think that would lay the foundation of Maryland basketball never looking back. You know, once they get that next one, they'd never have to look back again. Yeah, there's no reason why it shouldn't be. I know we've had this conversation before,

but for those that are listening and hearing this stuff for the first time, Maryland should be a national championship contender, a legitimate Final Four or national championship contender once out of every five years minimum. You know, it should be in the tournament every year. It should be in Sweet 16s multiple times.

And at least once, you know, every four or five years, it should have a legitimate national championship contending team. I mean, I feel, that way. Nobody's saying that we should be Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, or Carolina, where you just reload and you come in rank number two or number one every year.

But Maryland should be at the top of the next category. Certainly near it. Yeah, and you know, you see some of those schools that can do that in that next category that you're talking about, and we there's no reason why

we're not one of those schools. You had it there. Yeah, we had a chance. We had a couple teams. The Steve Francis team had a chance, but Abina Akisie blew out as Achilles a week before the NCAA tournament. Joe Smith's sophomore year with Booth had a chance. Joe Smith had a two-seed. I got pneumonia. That's the only games I ever missed in my life, you know, as a coach.

And that really bothered me. It still bothers me that I've gotten sick. And like, even in Vasquez's senior year, while we're beating, we're losing to Michigan State in the last second shot. Northern Iowa is upsetting Kansas. So you had to beat Kansas and Tennessee after the Michigan, Northern Iowa and Tennessee to get to the final four that year, and Duke won that year, and we had already beaten Duke during the regular season.

So a lot of things got to go your way, you know, to make, you've got to be lucky unless you're really good, you know, and, you know, just better than everybody else. But, you know, I'll take those chances. you know, I'll play anybody one game. And we got to get a guy in here that'll feel that way. Like, you know, give me one game against the best team in the country. There's no reason why we shouldn't be good enough to win that one game. You know, I've been very passionate and vocal of, you know, in defense of Mark being a really good coach, because I believe that. I think he's a really good coach. And I think the fans that believe that he should be gone because he's not a good coach, I think they're delusional.

I think it's totally reasonable to believe that we're better than one sweet 16 in 10 years, and the program's gotten a little bit stale. So let's agree on that. But he was a good coach. But, you know, just over this recent Thanksgiving holiday, and I have felt this way a couple of times over the last couple of years, Maryland's kind of dropped off prominence-wise just in the big-time holiday scheduling thing. You know, you had us in Maui, I think, multiple times.

So we win every four years. That's what you can do. And I know Maui was in Vegas this year. Maui's the best. But now the Bahama thing is really good. The other, Maryland was playing in the tournament in Bahama, where the other one would fall with Michigan State. The Atlanta, the Atlanta is the bigger one.

Yeah, we were in the bottom. Yeah, you want the Atlantis right now. I mean, look, we had a game with Louisville. I'm not, you know, it wasn't like we were playing, you know, South Carolina State in the final. They beat Richmond, and then they were playing Louisville in the final. And that's a big time. program matchup.

But so what's the timetable on all of this? Well, Damon, they were out at the college football Hall of Fame was in Vegas. So Damon was out there with Henderson, who was a great football player at Maryland. And so now it's the first thing they've got to do is, I guess, decide what they want to do. you know, like, do we want to form a committee? That has to take place. Then the committee has to meet. And then, you know, we've got to get to work.

It can't say, nobody can say, well, we have all this time, given the unusual timing of the opening and the job. And, of course, Danny Manning, if he turns around and wins 10 games in a row or something like that, it's, you know, you have to look at that. But, you know, it's time to get moving. you know, is the best way I can say, because I know when, you know, like coaching wise, well, we can always put in our out-of-bounds plays. Well, if you don't put them in early enough, you never run good out-of-bounce plays that year.

So, you know, the more time you have, the better it is. So take advantage of the time and hopefully we can get started on this thing. Why don't NBA teams run out of balance plays to get the ball in when they have to? do you notice that it's unbelievable it's unbelievable like what what i see if i was an NBA coach and i never did i would press after free throws i know those guys it's a tough sell and all that stuff

but it's bad as good as those guys are they're so bad in traps and things like that in a full court situation because they never have to play against it right see if you never play against something you you you know you you and and you're there's so good they think, well, I can just dribble through the trap. They are always trying to dribble right through a trap. Yeah, that's what they do. And like, it's a great way to surprise a team. And, you know, the problem with the NBA is the scoring comes in bunches so quick. In other

words, somebody's 15 down, all of a sudden they're four up four minutes later. And teams always think that that's the answer. They're going to be able to score. They'll get hot. And they do a lot of times. But, you know, once again, you want a full repertoire of what you do. And so if you just have like a press, you can throw on after free throws. And that's easy. It's easy to press after free throws. It really is. Yeah.

Yeah, you got more time to set it up. Plus, even if you... Everybody's set up. You can set up on the lane with the guys you want in certain places, you know. And even if you don't get a turnover, you have them burn a bunch of the shot clock before they get into their offense. I mean, we're talking 24 seconds. So, it's still. But still, it's amazing to me to watch NBA teams.

when they absolutely have to get the ball inbounds at the end against, by the way, typically full court. And basically it's Operation Get Open. That's it. You just got to, they rely on their athletes to get open. By the way, back to the opening. Just out of curiosity, was there any possibility that you would be the interim coach? Like Barry Alvarez, you know, at Wisconsin one year ended up going back to coaching. We just had Bob Stoops, you know, take over.

Oklahoma for the bowl game for Lincoln Riley. Was there ever a chance that you were going to be the interim coach this year? I didn't know if I'd get a call or not. Obviously, I didn't. But they had Danny Manning there. You know, he'd been a head coach at Wake Forest, so they felt that was the way to go. And that might be right because he knows the players better than I do.

He knows, you know, they can continue to run the same stuff as he did under Mark. And so I think that was the way they chose to go. You know what, though? If you had been the coach against Northwestern on Sunday, the building would have been filled to capacity. It would have been a good business move at the very least. Yeah, that's what I thought. I thought I could be a good cheerleader for January, February,

and March, really. And just get people excited and have that at that level. And then the new coach comes in and just, you know, rides that wave and that that's what I What kind of fist pump would you have come out first on Sunday? I would have hurt my shoulder. I know that. The place would have lost its collective minds.

I mean, it would have been, it would have been insane. All right. I think I would have worn a suit just to, you know, like, nobody wears a suit anymore. I think I would have worn a suit. Yeah, you would have definitely worn a suit. And probably, and probably sweated through a portion of it anyway. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Well, you would have been, would you have been nervous? Sure. Oh, yeah. I would get nervous before every game. By the time I got to the bench, I was okay. But before the game, I was, that was the worst part of my life. You know, especially 9 o'clock games at night. I hated them, you know, because what do you do?

You get up at 7.30, and what do you do? You can't practice. Would you have had time to put in your 1-2-1-1-1 diamond press. Yeah, that's, I hate to admit this, but that's so easy to put in. Players like to do it. You know, we had a rule that if we stole the ball, you know, given time of score, obviously, but in the normal flow of the game, if we stole the ball,

our job was to shoot as quickly as possible because we wanted to play in transition if we stole the ball. And so players love that. You know, they just, you know, you talk about Juan Dix and guys like that, give me the ball. We got to steal it. So we don't have to run the flex if we steal the ball. We don't have to run that flex against, by the way,

which must have been super hard to run against Duke when they were extending out because that first pass going from one guard to the other out front would have been difficult. You know, and we wound up doing a thing where we had the two-guard front. The guy with the ball would just dribble the ball to the other guy and he'd go underneath, like, around the foul line, back to the other guard spot. So we could get a cutter going into flex.

I mean, it was hard. It was really hard. You know, you ran the flex better than anybody. Did that come from Tom Davis? Yeah, a lot of it was Tom Davis. A lot of it was when I played at Maryland. Bud Milliken was our coach, and Pete Newell had a reverse action that called it, offense.

And it was more of a shuffle cut. You know, the cut came from above the foul line off the post. But it's the same action. and I learned from that too and we ran at Maryland with one guard front the guard would pass go through the corner but basically it was me just to get out of the way so I

wouldn't think about shooting and then they'd swing it to the top of the circle to the other guard and he hit the four at the other side and then the cutter would go off of that so it was very similar so I picked it up from both guys really are you are you friendly with Bruce Pearl

because he coached for Tom Davis he was there at Boston College with Tom, when Tom went to Stanford, Pearl went with him. Pearl was like a student manager. He wasn't a player. He was. He was the Eagle at Boston College for one year.

Oh, he was. I didn't know it. Oh, yeah. So he went to Stanford with Tom, that he went to Iowa with Tom, when Tom went to Iowa. And so, yeah, I know Bruce for a long time. All righty, this was fun, as usual. I hope you guys are well. I will talk to you soon. Who do you like, Washington or Dallas?

I'm taking Washington. I just think we had momentum. Momentum is big. Plus, you know, I've been over here, not as long as you guys have lived here, but I've been here over 30 years now, and I like to kick your butt. So, here we go. All right. Thank you, Gary.

I'll talk to you soon. All right, Kevin. Always pleasure. Gary Williams, everybody. Hall of Famer, legend. I really want him intimately involved in the process of finding Maryland's next coach. Look, now that the opening is here, okay, you know how I feel about the last era. I don't think the results ultimately in March were good enough, and I agree with most of you who say there was a staleness to the program here in recent years.

2020 may have changed that, but that didn't happen. But I don't agree with some of you that Mark Turgeon was a bad coach. Gary doesn't agree with that. Anybody that knows basketball knows he was a good coach. but now that there's an opening, I want Maryland to think big and I want them to swing big. You know, I thought about this back in 2010 for the football program. I wanted Mike Leach to hell with whatever his situations were. It would have worked out much better Mike Leach versus Randy Edsel.

I didn't want Ralph to go because Ralph had just become the ACC coach of the year in 2010. Maryland went to bowl games in seven of ten Ralph's years and won five of them. But anyway, Leach in 2010, to me, would have been the better hire for football. In 2010, basketball-wise, many of you have reached out to me to say, you know, I understand that the job's a good job, but you're overrating it thinking it's a top 15 to top 20 job. Look, most people in the sport would agree. I don't need, the debate is, whatever, think what you want to think. In 2010, Sean Miller was going to take the job.

He needed one academic exception. from the university and he couldn't get it. He felt that that was very important. He had that at Arizona and he wanted that at Maryland and Maryland wasn't doing that back then. You know, there were guys and big names that were interested in the job that Maryland wasn't interested in. The only person of any of those names back in 2010

that I heard 100% said, no thank you, was Jamie Dixon who was at Pitt at the time. Dixon's now at his own. alma mater, TCU, as its basketball coach. Every other name mentioned back then, I think had, you know, some level of interest from, you know, a little bit of interest to maybe significant interest, but for whatever reason it didn't work out. Turgeon was a hot name. I mean, don't act like Turgeon was some mid-tier candidate. He had built Texas A&M into a perennial NCAA tournament team that was producing pros like DeAndre Jordan and Chris Middleton. Plus, he had taken which

Chitaw to a Sweet 16 before he got to college station at A&M. But I want them to think big, swing big. I want them to end up with somebody that's really going to put a jolt into the program. We were talking obviously about Petino and my question to Gary, paraphrasing it, with something like, you know, will the university steer clear of coaches with controversial pasts? Obviously, there are degrees of past, and a guy like Patino has made amends. And if you've got a guy that's already paid the price for whatever happened and whatever happened you're okay with, you've got to move forward.

You can't go down the path, in my opinion, of trying to find the Mike Shoshiewski of 1982. You know, hire this young guy that you're convinced is going to be a great coach. it'll take some time, but you're convinced it'll really work out long term. I think that's too high risk right now. It's too competitive in this marketplace. It's too competitive in the Big Ten. It's too competitive in college sports. And the opportunity exists right now with a really good coach,

with, as Gary said, some charisma, you know, the ability to really recruit, some style of play that's more exciting. I want a really good coach more than anything else. but I want the other things with it too, and that's why I'm thinking big, swinging big, if I'm the university. Because there's an opportunity here. Maryland should be one of those programs that you're thinking about when college basketball rolls around. I don't think it'll ever be Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina, Blue Bloods.

You know, UCLA, if you want to put them into that category. But it should, as it was under Gary, be at the very top or very near the top of the next tier, which is, you know, right now places like Michigan State and Villanova. And in recent years, a place like UVA, you know, that's where Maryland belongs. And it hasn't been in that tier recently. It's been probably at the bottom of that tier because that tier probably has, you know, 15 places in it. If not at the top of the third tier, I haven't really done my tiers, but you get my point, hopefully. I think like Petino and Bruce Pearl and big names like that, Eric Musselman, who I love as a coach at Arkansas. I'm a big Ed Cooley fan. Keep in mind, some of these guys are going to be at places where they may not seem to be as prominent as Maryland,

but they may have a setup. They might have a situation that just makes it very difficult for them to leave. I've heard a couple of things about a couple of coaches where, you know, the spouse has a significant job or significant family and they're just never going to move. They're going to stay there and they've got a good situation. Those kinds of things play in as well. I mean, I think Kevin Willard's a name to keep an eye on. I think Andy Enfield at Southern Cal is a name to keep an eye on. You know, those are two right now that I would say would be, it wouldn't surprise me if they're on a list. I don't know how short that list is. I'm sure the list is. I'm sure the list isn't short. It shouldn't be short at this point. And remember, with a whole season to play,

by the time we get to March, there will be another three or four hot candidates, you know, that emerge. But I'm looking for the person that can coach and is going to immediately inject some legitimate juice back into the program. I love Ed Cooley as a coach. He's always been one of my favorite coaches. I really love Musselman as a coach. I think, I think Willard can really coach. I think Enfield can probably really recruit. You know, and he went to Hopkins, and he worked in the area. He's an interesting story because he didn't get into coaching until he was like 30 years old.

He used to run games at Bethesda Sport and Health with a bunch of us. He was a good player, by the way, really good shooter. And then he somehow got a gig as an assistant somewhere, and then ended up as an assistant in the NBA, and then ended up as the head coach at Florida Gulf Coast, and remember the dunk show they put on when they knocked Georgetown out in the first round, and they advanced to the Sweet 16, and then he got the Southern Cal job. Southern Cal just hired Lincoln Riley.

I mean, USC basketball is a distant, distant number two or three behind, you know, regular football and spring football. Would a guy like Enfield want to be at a basketball first school and in an area that he's familiar with? I don't know. Anyway, John Beeline, he's 68 years old. I think Beeline's a phenomenal coach. And to be honest with you, the age matters, I guess, because you'd love to have this guy for like the next 20 years.

You know, you'd like to have a Gary Williams kind of run, you know, with the next guy that gets hired. But John Beeline can just flat out coach. He's one and one big everywhere he's gone. I don't know what his deal would be, whether or not he'd want to come back to college coaching, and then if he did come back to the Big Ten and coach against Michigan. I don't know.

But anyway, yeah, I think that's it for the day. Can't wait for Monday when we are here recapping a Washington-Dalice game that, again, I think Washington wins 23 to 20. Have a great weekend back on Monday.