The Kevin Sheehan Show - WFT's Greatest "What Ifs"

Episode Date: April 23, 2021

A different show today. Kevin talked about Jordan Reed's retirement and his place on a list of the greatest Washington Football "What Ifs". Cooley had to bail because he has to prep for knee surgery tomorrow so Kevin went back two years ago to a show he and Chris did on NFL Draft Day 2019. An interesting look back on the rumors that Snyder was going to be more involved in the teams' draft. Also, Cooley and Kevin talked a lot about the possibility of Dwayne Haskins being drafted in the first round.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Good Wednesday to everybody. A weird show coming up. I will concede that up front. Had something to take care of yesterday.

I'm going to make yesterday show up on Saturday, and we'll have even more, I think, clarity on the NFL draft at that point. Cooley was going to be on with me today. but he had to go get a COVID test because he's having knee surgery tomorrow. And he was planning on doing the show and then, you know, let me know very late last night early this morning that he was required to go get a COVID test and it was going to take a while because he had to drive a long distance and he wasn't going to be able to do the show today. So I actually had an idea for the show today and I have no idea whether or not you will like this or not

But I went back two years and listened to our pre-draft show from two years ago when they selected Dwayne Haskins in the first round. And I cut out two segments from a two-hour-plus show that we did on that particular day. And I will explain what those segments are before we get to them. But that's going to be a big part of the show today. You'll get Cooley's evaluation and Cooley in my conversation about Haskins prior to. to that draft, and you'll hear who Cooley also liked in that draft quarterback-wise. There was a lot there. I couldn't put the whole thing together and make that to show today, so I just picked out a couple of pieces. But before we get to that, a couple of things to get to.

First of all, there's a huge basketball game in town tonight, and it's the first one with fans, even though it's only 2100 fans, that will be at Capital One Arena. But Steph Curry is in town to play the red-hot Washington Wizards. The Wizards have won five in a row. They've won seven of their last eight. They are right now tied for the 10th spot in the east, which would put them in the play-in tournament to make the postseason, to make the 18 postseason. I know we've not talked a lot about basketball on the podcast here, much at all. On the radio show, I've done more of it. I had Scott Brooks on the show yesterday. Scott's always good. You can go listen to that. if you want at the Team 980.com or on the Odyssey app.

But the Wizards are rolling right now. And one of the things they are doing is they're beating bad teams. It's something that they didn't do previously under Scott Brooks. And I asked him, why do you think, you know, after, say, a win over Utah on the road last week, were you able then to destroy the Kings? You know, why after an overtime thrilling win against New Orleans did you come back and pound Detroit? and beat Oklahoma City two bad teams, where in the past it was something that they always struggled with. And he said, you know, Russ basically doesn't let us have letdowns.

Russell Westbrook is so much more than I think almost anybody understood unless you were really following his career in the various spots and maybe we're almost in the city. Scott Brooks told me the day after they traded John Wall for Russell Westbrook, that they were getting one of the more mature players and one of the best leaders that this franchise has had. And that surprised me. You know, we've heard the stories of, you know, people not wanting to play with Russ. And there may be reasons why Kevin Durant and others, you know, Victor Oladipo or Paul George or somebody else. Actually, Paul George always had very nice things to say. or James Harden.

You know, there are reasons potentially why Russ was difficult. You know, he is at times an out-of-control player. You could say, obviously, the proof is in his career, that you can't win a championship with Russell Westbrook. He's very demanding. But, man, Scott Brooks thought that he was getting leadership to fill sort of a leadership void. Not that Beal doesn't lead by action,

but that there was a maturity with Westbrook. I was surprised at that. I remember that. As much of a Russell Westbrook fan as I've been over the course of many, many years. And then early on with Russ coming off an injury, it really looked like they caught Russ, you know, post the best part of his career.

I mean, there was a moment there earlier in the season where, you know, many, including yours truly, were considering maybe, you know, we can redo the trade and bring John back and wait for him to get him. really healthy or hope that he's really healthy. Early on at Houston, it looked like he might be healthy. But man, Westbrook wasn't healthy. And now Westbrook is just on a ridiculous role. He is the leader of that team. He is taking big shots for that team. He doesn't let that team lose to bad teams following good games, or good wins, excuse me. And they may be

working their way towards an Eastern Conference playoff berth. You know, some of you would say, well, that's not what you want. You don't want them to be in that playing tournament, end up as the eight seed, and play Philadelphia in the first round and lose, you know, four games to one or whatever it would be. Okay. I know that's what they want. And having Russ and Beal in that postseason with what they've got going now inside with Gafford, the addition of Gafford and the combination of Lenn Gafford and Lopez, which is actually pretty interesting. Could they be a difficult out? They might be a difficult out.

Are they going to win a series? No, not as an eight seed. More likely to not, that would be a shocker. But they've become a very interesting team to watch. They are playing tonight, Steph Curry, who has retaken, by the way, the scoring lead over Bradley Beale, not retaken, taken the scoring lead over Bradley Beale. Beals had it the entire season. But Steph Curry is on a role like we haven't seen before from this position in terms of a shooter.

He is averaging this month in April. He's averaging 40.8 points per game. He's averaging 7.2 made three-pointers a game out of 14.3 attempts. He's averaging 50.3% from behind the arc and 54.9% from the floor, and oh, by the way, 90.9% from the free throw line. In the last five games, he has made 10 or more three-pointers four times. Clay Thompson is second on the list with the most three-point games, most games with 10 or more three-pointers with a career total of five. Steph Curry has four in his last five games.

where he's gone for 53, 42, 33, 47, and 49 the other night in a win over Philadelphia. The shooting percentages are off the charts. In his last five games, his three-point shooting percentage is 55.4% on 46 made threes on 83 attempts. It's ridiculous. He's in the building tonight. you cannot get a ticket to this game. They're 2,100, which is, first of all, makes it impossible. Yesterday, apparently, there were a few tickets on Stubhub for $300 plus.

They're all gone. I'm actually looking forward to watching the game tonight. Baseball-wise, I was glad to see Patrick Corbyn get back on track with a really good night last night and then a wild eighth inning. But Corvin pitching six complete, allowing just four hits. and no earned runs after he had a 21.32 ERA after his first two starts. That was encouraging for them, especially with the injury to Strasbourg and the injury, you know, still no Lester.

Soto went on the 10-day DL yesterday, but it was nice for them to get a win and you get Max on the bump this afternoon in their rubber match against St. Louis. I also wanted to say something before we get to the two years ago, Cooley stuff on the draft or the Cooley and Kevin conversations on the draft. Jordan Reed retired the other day. We didn't have a show yesterday, so we didn't have a chance to talk about it. Jordan Reed was a spectacular player here, obviously too hurt to have turned it into, you know, a real memorable career. But over the last 10 years or certainly before last year when Chase Young was drafted, I thought Washington had two true.

talents on their roster, you know, over the last 10 or so years. And those two players were Trent Williams and Jordan Reed. Jordan Reed had memorable games, you know, in the Code Red game against Tampa Bay, had the touchdown catch at the end to win it. The game in 2015 at the end of the year against Philadelphia, he was totally uncheckable. The game I remember as much as any was when he almost single-handedly kept them in the game on Thanksgiving Day against the Cowboys in 2016. You know, when the offense rolled up 500 yards, the defense couldn't get off the field and Hopkins missed two field goals. Jordan Reed was truly, you know, at his best and healthiest, one of the best two or three pass-catching tight ends in the league with

Gronk and Kelsey. He really was a special player. And I did a phone segment earlier this morning on radio show basically titled the greatest what-ifs in Washington football history. You know, to me, there are two that immediately come to mind, but God, there were so many people that called in and tweeted in a lot of others. Jordan Reed is a great what-if. If Jordan Reed had not had the concussions, which, by the way, were the reason he retired, he went to a, he had a scan recently and he had doctors that told him it's time for you to retire. This is not worth pushing any longer. I mean, you are putting yourself in danger. If he isn't there already, you just pray for him that he ends up having a normal life with the number of concussions he had.

But he's one of the great what-ifs in franchise history. The greatest what-ifs in franchise history in some order are Sean Taylor not dying and what kind of player he would have become? I think he would have become one of the great safeties in the history of the game. And I say this all the time about Sean because so many of you immediately say, you know, Kevin, you overrate him in death. A lot of our fans do that. No, I don't think I do. I think if he hadn't played in 2007, I could understand that argument. But if you watched him in 2007 before the injury that ultimately led to him returning to his home in Florida where he was tragically murdered. He had turned the corner.

He was a great player in 2007. And he was a much more mature teammate and a much more coachable player. I think Sean Taylor was on his way to a Hall of Fame career and on his way to being one of the greatest safeties in NFL history. And look, this franchise has one of the greatest safeties in the history of the game in Ken Houston. And we would have had two of them on that list of the greatest safeties. The other to me, you know, biggest, you know, what if in franchise history is probably the most significant in many ways. And that is, what if Jack Kent Cook had made it easier in his will for John Ken Cook to retain the team?

to continue owning the team and keeping the team in the family, which Jack Kent Cook did not do for whatever reason. He did not make it easy for his team to keep the team. In fact, he made it impossible for John Kent Cook to keep the team. John Ken Cook had to put it up for sale, and the rest is history. If John Kent Cook owns the team, what kind of franchise would it have been over the last 21 years? A franchise that was much better than the one that we've been able, that we've lived through over the last 21 years. I think that's a given.

I don't know if it would have been one of the best franchises in the league like it was when Jack Ken Cook owned it, but it wouldn't have been what it was, which was absolutely at rock bottom, you know, not only in this league, but in all of professional team sports. There are a lot of others, though. Vince Lombardi dying in 1969. What would the Redskins have been like in the 70s with Vince Lombardi? Would it have been like a Packers 60s run? They had had their first winning season in so many years in 1969.

And with Sonny Jurgensen at quarterback, it certainly would have been interesting at the very least with Vince Lombardi. I always come back to something that I've talked about before. It's a really interesting sort of double-headed what if. And it's the game in 1979, the season finale in Dallas, that Washington blew a 13-point lead in the final couple of minutes of the game to Roger Stauback and the Cowboys and lost 35-34. If Washington wins that game, if they hold on to a 13-point lead, they go into that postseason as the number one seed, and they might make the Super Bowl. The Rams ultimately

made the Super Bowl and beat the Steelers. The Rams actually beat the Cowboys in the divisional round when the Cowboys won the game 35-34 and became the NFC East champs. That was a situation where Washington had to win the game, and if they won it, they were the number one seed. If they didn't win it, they were completely out of the playoffs, because earlier that day, Washington needed St. Louis to play Chicago close because it was going to come down to point differential, and they got routed like 44 to 6. If Washington holds on to a 34-21 lead and wins the game, Jack Pardee probably gets a contract extension and they never hired Joe Gibbs. At the same time, if they won the game, they may have gone to the Super Bowl that particular year.

By the way, with the Vince Lombardi thing, if Lombardi doesn't pass away, then you never get George Allen. Also, that means you'd never get Bruce Allen. But there are a lot of what ifs. I mentioned also what if Gibbs hadn't wanted more say in personnel, would Bobby Bethard had stayed? What about Marty Schottenheimer? That's the biggest mistake of the Dan Snyder era. What if Marty Schottenheimer stayed?

What if Sonny never got hurt in 72 and played in Super Bowl 7 against the dolphins instead of Billy Kilmer? There are a lot of them. If you want to tweet me at Kevin Sheen, D.C. with some of yours, go ahead. But Jordan Reed got me to thinking about that. I love watching Jordan Reed as a player. He was uncoverable by almost everybody in the league. And it's a shame that injuries really hampered his career.

People mentioned Larry Brown's career. He had so many knee injuries after being the NFL MVP in 72. That was a good one that many people mentioned. And, you know, the RG3 stuff, what if he hadn't gotten hurt? What if, you know, RG3 ignored Snyder and was mature enough to say no, my head coach is Mike Shanahan and my, you know, my offensive coordinator is Kyle Shanahan. And those are the guys I'm going to listen to. And I'm going to allow them to coach me. What would happen there?

Anyway, lots of what-ifs. All right. Up next, the first of two segments from a two-hour-plus show that I'm going to play back from two years ago with Cooley, right after this word from one of our sponsors. So two years ago nearly to the day, we were getting ready for the 2019 NFL draft. And Cooley came in studio that day, and we did a long show. and I listened to the show and I took a couple of segments from that show. I've never done this before. You could find the show, I think, in past episodes, but it takes a while and I took two pieces

of it because I thought it was interesting to sort of circle back and listen to what we thought in the moment two years ago. The first thing that I'm going to play for you is a conversation that we had about a report that had come out that Dan Snobster. may take the draft over. There were already reports, Grant Paulson from 1067, The Fan, Diana Rusini. People were already starting to talk about, you know, Snyder's had it. He doesn't want, you know, to, you know, to have another bad off season.

2019 was a disastrous ending to the season, or the 2018 season was a disastrous ending. Obviously, you know, we had the Alex Smith injury, et cetera, and that he was going to take over the draft. So that started this conversation as I tried to put it in a way in which Cooley could respond. This is how I would put it. I would put it this way. When the season ended, and it ended in ugly fashion with his stadium being completely taken over by Philadelphia Eagle fans. And I don't know if this was like the moment. And perhaps the moment happened in the opener against the Colts when the stadium was half filled, the home opener, that is. But at that moment, he said, we have to do something in this upcoming offseason to generate interest and to get fans back

and get revenue back. We cannot have another offseason of Bruce, who I believe in, because I think Dan believes in Bruce, and there's this relationship there that is, for whatever reason, comforting to the owner, but I cannot have you hand me Paul Richardson and Geron Johnson and Chris Culliver and Kendall Reyes and tell me we had a great offseason. We need more than that this year. Antonio Brown is available. Let's go try to get him. Golden Tate is available. Let's go try to get him. Landon Collins actually wants to play for us. Let's try to get him. Greg Williams is available as a defensive coordinator. Having Greg back here would generate some interest. Let's try to go to get, let's try to get Greg Williams. And oh, by the way, we have a pick in this draft,

and I don't want it to be an offensive lineman. I don't want it to be a player that nobody's heard of. We need a quarterback. Alex is done. Colts not the answer. Your case Keenum trade, fine. It was cheap to no-brainer, but we don't have him under contract after next year. We got to go get ourselves a quarterback. Now, go do it. Now, does that mean he's taken over the first round of the draft? It doesn't mean he's taking it over literally. But there's been this message since that Philadelphia game to finish up the season where we got to have an off season where it looks like we are, you know, we're making a splash or two here. That's what I think. Dan is saying it's all about winning. I don't care about the rest.

Well, if it's all about winning, I don't believe they should try to draft a quarterback at 15 or higher. That's what I believe he's doing. If he believes that drafting a quarterback is winning, then he's drafting a quarterback because he wants to win. He does not want to drum up interest. No one's going to believe that I say that. And maybe he, maybe he's going to say that to anyone around him and not truly believe it because it's hard to not have your stadium cell. It's hard to look at your television ratings. It's hard to look at a fan base that's diminishing. But you, and I think I believe the same thing, they don't quite,

I don't know if they understand the levity of what's going on with the fan base. I think that there, but that's what you believe, correct? That you believe that there's a group of Redskins fans that you look at letters, attendance to charity events, and say, there's nothing

wrong with our fans. Part of me... I think it's about winning, and that's all he cares of it. Part of me, I want to get back to that, you know, just winning. But I think part of it is what you said. They are fooled by this same group that shows up at these events that they have and will never, ever be negative about the Redskins.

And I do believe that they feel like that the revenue hit and the ratings and the tickets are more about a fan base being disappointed than, you know, first of all, I rate and now apath. I think it's more about them thinking that, you know, Bruce is essentially sent it. Our fans were disappointed. We had injuries and they were disappointed, but we were six and three. I don't think that they understand the extent of the rage and how that rage is turned into apathy and how hard it will be to get those people back. So I would agree with that.

But I also think there's a... But I also know he knows how to read a P&L. And the revenues with this and the corporate sponsorships, and the ticket sales, these are real tangible things that have to be an alarm bell going off in his head. Yeah, but you can read the P&L and you can also make excuses and say there's a lot going around the league that says the same type of thing. So maybe it's a league-wide problem. Not at their level. I think they think there's a lot going on outside of just what they've done that's affecting some of these things.

And I understand why you would do that because you don't want to place blame on yourself. Well, they'll blame Brian Lafamina for, you know, the transparent. You can find anything you want to find. So you can say and spin it any way you want to spin it, but ultimately you can find excuses for anything that you have shortcomings in, and maybe that's a big part of it. But I think they're just going to say it's about winning. Back to your Dan just wants to win.

So no matter who they take, if it's the best player on the board and it's going to contribute to winning, it's fine. What if they take Joanne Taylor, the offensive line in Florida? There's no chance of taking Juan Taylor. Okay, I'm trying to give you a player that, you know, very few people, unless you're really following the draft. I'll give you a- Chris Lindstrom.

I'll give you- I'll give you- You know. I'll give you-earned at 15, the guard from Boston College. What if they take him? Think Dan's going to be happy with that? Let's just say Haskins. Haskins is on the board. So is Locke at 15.

And they take Chris Lindstrom. Think he's going to be happy with that? Oh, boy. No one's going to be happy about that. So that's, like, the football people say this is the best player. I'll give you a better example. If they take Devin Bush, the inside linebacker out of Michigan. Well, supposed to be a short thing.

You're going to say you're going to spin that we're going to continue to build this front seven. We've got a playmaker on defense. I don't believe he's a playmaker. Haskins-in's a lock. We're both on the board. So is Daniel Jones. Devin Bush is taken. Is he going to be happy?

Devin Bush is a bigger name. I gave you Chris Lindstrom, who most people, unless you're really following the draft, don't know, but could be a mid-first-round pick. By the way, could fill an immediate need, too. The interesting thing is, any of the players you named or the player I named, I'm not going to be happy if those two quarterbacks are on the board. But for me, if Marquis Brown was sitting there and you got yourself a real playmaker, I don't know how much I believe in any of these quarterbacks. So I would be fine with that. I know you would be. I'm not asking about you.

So my answer is, my answer is, yeah, if it were Marquise Brown, I think he'll be happy about it. I didn't ask you about Marquise Brown. Markis Brown is a different feel. He asked me about a Schmoe versus a quarterback. Chris Lindstrom could be a top 14 through 23 pick. Let me just. He's the highest rate to player on the board and Haskins and Locker sitting there. And the Redskins take Chris Lindstrom at 15, a guard from BC.

Simple question. Do you think Dan would be happy with that? I know he No, Kevin He's gonna be This is how many times I've talked to Dan in the last four months? Zero.

So I don't know what he's thinking. Have you, just out of curiosity, have you been in their draft war room? Like, have you seen the big bored? I'm not asking you to reveal any of it if you did,

but have you ever seen any of that stuff? I didn't walk in the draft war room this year. I could. Right. Why don't you have a desire to do that and interest to do that? I'm curious. I think it would be really cool.

I do have a desire to do it. I don't belong there. Okay. That's a good answer. I didn't know if that was something. I don't. So here's one of my biggest things. And you know this.

I don't like having information because I'm not. Right. You want to glean my own information. And when I say it, I want to know that I'm not protecting anything or hiding anything or trying to promote anyone's agenda. Right. I don't belong there.

I believe that I'm just as constantly. Upperton and evaluating most of these guys and where these guys will fall, I'm somewhat interested in how much they love the quarterbacks. Other than that. Because you don't love the quarterbacks. And if they love the quarterbacks, you would be at odds with that. And we're going to find out tonight. I love Murray.

By the way, you asked me if there was truth to trading up the three. For Murray? That's the only thing you're trading up to three for. You're not trading up to three. take Haskins or Locke. I agree with you. And so trading up to three essentially was saying the Jets are trying to shop their pick like crazy right now and everybody knows that.

The Cardinals are going to go ahead and stay with Rosen, draft Bosa, which means Alan will go to San Francisco. And now you got a guy at three, which is, what, 750 points on the draft chart down from one. That's a big jump to get to three to one. Yeah. So there was truth in that. if someone said to me, if I was in the room,

would you be interested in trading up to three to get the best player or the best quarterback you eat? Certainly, yes. I had that on my list of things to talk about when we got to the quarterbacks in more specifics. But I mentioned this yesterday. I don't think that any fan, you could disagree with it. But I don't think you could disagree with it on the, you know, whether or not this was a risk.

that you could justify taking. You may not like the player. You may think at 5'8 8 or whatever he might really be, that you shouldn't have a 5'8-195-pound quarterback in the NFL. What did he weigh in it? 205, whatever it was. But if they traded from 15 to 3 because the Cardinals went Bosa and you had to get ahead of the Raiders because Kyler Murray was there,

if that's what happened tonight, I think tomorrow morning I would come in and I would say, I understand what they did. I have no idea if it's going to work out or not, but I understand what they did. Just in the same way, I felt that way about Griffin. When they traded what they traded for Griffin, which is a lot in hindsight given some of the other comp packages in recent years to trade up more distance. But whatever it was, it was 2012. In the moment, I said, if you really believe he's a franchise-changing quarterback, absolutely. So- And that's the thing about it. I would feel really badly and I would criticize heavily if they did that for Haskins or Jones or Locke or any other

quarterback. I think it would be stupidity. You can't do it for any other quarterback because it's not like I'm fully buying every mock draft, but every quarterback could be taken after 15 after Kyler Murray. Potentially. Potentially, any one of those quarterbacks could fall. Right. So that was that part of the conversation from nearly two years ago. The rest of it that I wanted to play for you had to do with more detail on what we were thinking about Dwayne Haskins at the time. You'll hear that right after this word from one of our sponsors. So this part is more about Haskins in detail. Here's how it went two years ago.

I don't like Jones or Haskins with pressure and stuff around them. I can't stand Haskins with pressure, period. This is what would scare me the most, is the pressure, the immobility, the not great feel in the pocket. I don't think he has any touch. Watch him incomplete swing after swing. Here comes the pressure in the first three quarters of that Penn State game,

and here goes a ball 10 feet over somebody's head. But in the fourth quarter, when they started throwing sideways to guys like Paris Campbell, those guys were just zipping around and running into the end zone. And it was fine. So someone said to me, you don't like, Haskins. Watch the Michigan game.

And I had watched it. Watch the Michigan State game. Well, if you don't like Haskins, watch the Michigan State game, you'll go, he's not an NFL quarterback in that game. No, he's far from. And that was a, that was one of the better defenses he faced, that and the Michigan game. Go ahead. So here's the thing.

First thing on Haskins, right now lacks anticipation. He just does. But I don't know how much he lacks anticipation because of lack of, lack of, lack of continuity and scheme. You know, Ohio States come out in Urban Meyer, they're saying, well, we change so much because of what he can do when we ran NFL concepts. What the hell you did?

That Michigan game, they ran what is in West Coast terminology called shallow cross. You have a 10-yard hook over the ball, and you have a crossing route underneath that high lows, and then running backs running a rail with the post over the top. You could throw another shallow cross in the mix from the

other side and empty. 11 times out of 13, They had success on that play. Eight of them he threw the shallow cross. One he threw the hook. One he threw the rail. One he missed the rail. The running back down the sideline and missed him badly.

It was over 240 yards. How many points did they? He threw for like four, like four-seventy. They scored a boatload. Yeah. But, hey, great play. You hit Paris Campbell on a four-yard shallow cross and he took it 45. I actually like Paris Campbell a lot.

I love Paris Campbell. I think. I think Paris Campbell is a dude, man. Yeah. But that's the thing. Like, you have two recent. receivers that Paris Campbell's a potential first. You have the other kid who wore 80 through is probably a second or third.

And you have two other receivers on that roster that will end up being NFL receivers. And you're playing some teams. Not to mention two NFL backs, certainly one in Weber. Right. And you're playing some teams in the Big Ten where you, Michigan State's a good defense. They were very good talent on a couple of these teams. But you don't, it's not SEC talent. That Michigan State game, and the Penn State comeback was all playmakers making plays.

That game I was at. The Michigan State game was ugly. Ohio State's punter won that game against Michigan State by knocking Michigan State inside their five-yard line like five times in the second half. After Haskins and the offense went three and out time after time after time. I don't know how many picks he threw in that game. I just remember a bunch of near picks in that game in that game against Michigan State. All right, so you're still not on Haskins. I would be disappointed if they took Haskins at any point. 15, traded up, traded back.

You know, if they took them in the third round, that's different. It's different if they take them in the second. So the quarterback, your quarterback board, actually. My board right now, I have Murray. I have Murray and Locke in the first round, and I don't really want to take anybody else in the first round. Okay. So that was that. I mean, Cooley was dead right on Haskins.

I was, I guess, in the moment. I sort of changed my mind when I saw him in his rookie season. I wanted to see more of them. But, you know, a lot of this stuff, as we've talked about over the last year, we didn't know what was going on specifically behind the scenes with work ethic, etc.

And on Drew Locke, Hulie really did like Drew Locke. We talked about that I think last week on the podcast. He thinks that it would be worth sending a third round pick to Denver for Drew Locke. He still thinks Locks got a chance to have a career. Anyway, that's the show for today. I hope you enjoyed it back tomorrow with Tommy.