The Kevin Sheehan Show - What A Difference A Year Makes

Episode Date: May 18, 2022

Kevin on the NBA Playoffs to start followed by the breaking news of James Bradberry signing with the Eagles. Kevin then talked about the difference in expectations a year later for the Commanders. Last year, it was defense, defense, defense. This year, is it the opposite? Scott Van Pelt called in from Southern Hills in Tulsa to talk PGA Championship, Tiger, Phil, and the Caps.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. On the show today, Scott Van Pelt will join us from Southern Hills in Tulsa, Oklahoma. That's the site of this year's PGA championship. Tiger Woods is there.

Phil Mickelson is not there. I will ask him about both of those individuals. And we'll get his picks and even maybe a sleeper pick. or two. I know he wants to talk also about the caps going out and six to the Panthers. I know he was disappointed about that. I have some Washington commanders stuff for everybody to think about coming up here in a moment. But I wanted to start with how much I enjoyed watching the Miami Heat last night in the second half against Boston. Boston came into this game one of the Eastern Conference Finals, limited. They were without Marcus Smart. They were without Al Horford last night. Horford was in

health protocols, and Smart is battling a foot sprain. And, you know, they had the emotional weekend with the game six win, and then the seventh in deciding game on Sunday in Boston, where they blew out the defending champion Bucks to advance to the Eastern Conference finals, and Miami's had more time and more rest waiting. But they were just, down the heat were at halftime by 8, 62 to 54. Tatum had 21 in the first half and was sensational. And then came the third quarter. Jimmy Butler's been one of my favorite players in the NBA for a while. I've mentioned before that I think Kawhi Leonard is not only my favorite player in the NBA. He is one of my favorite players right now in all sports. Now he's been hurt for over a year

and clearly the Clippers missed him. They didn't. make the playoffs. They were in the play-in, and then they lost Paul George, so they didn't even make the final eight. I would expect if Paul George and Kwai Leonard are healthy next year and back, that the Clippers will be a threat in the West. But Butler to me is also one of these incredible two-way players, and sometimes is kind of underrated because of his style, and maybe sometimes because of the lack of aggressiveness offensively. But he led a Miami Heat defensive effort at the beginning of the third quarter that was just incredible to watch. It was suffocating. Boston could not get close to scoring. They had put up 62 in the first half, and they didn't

make their first shot from the field in the third quarter until four minutes and 53 seconds remained in the quarter. that point they were already down double digits and they went from an eight point half-time lead to a 17-point end of third quarter deficit being outscored 39 to 14. 39 points is a lot of points to score in a quarter. But make no mistake, if you were watching this, this was all about Miami's defense and the incredible aggressiveness and physicality that was taken up multiple notches to enter that third quarter. And it was really fun to watch.

Jimmy Butler went for 41 in the game, but his defense is what led. Bam had four block shots. There were 20 blocked shots in the game last night. 12 by Miami. Three by Jimmy Butler. Butler had three block shots to go with, you know, an incredible overall performance.

As I mentioned, 41 points in the game. for Butler, including 17 in the third quarter of that game. But Butler also added an incredible overall box score. Butler finished with the 41 points, had three block shots, as I mentioned, four steals, nine rebounds, and five assists. He was great. He was unbelievable in the game last night. Love watching him play. Now, that third quarter was epic. The Celtics were two for 15 from the field. It was their worst shooting quarter over the last four seasons, playoffs, and regular season. Also, I mentioned that it took Boston seven minutes and seven seconds to score in the third quarter from the field.

The last time it took Boston that long to score in a quarter was back in 2002. and something got mentioned during the course of the game, and I went to look it up after the game, and I was amazed at what I found. The last time it took Boston seven-plus minutes to score in a quarter was game three of the 2002 Eastern Conference semifinals against Detroit, a game in which the final score was 66 to 64. In a playoff game in the NBA,

the final score of the game was 66 to 64, Boston over Detroit. I did a double take when I heard it. I still didn't believe it until I went to basketball reference.com. I pulled up the game box score. These were the Celtics of Paul Pierce, Antoine Walker, Kenny Anderson, etc. It was the Pistons of Stackhouse and Cliff Robinson and Ben Wallace before they had their championship nucleus with Rashid Wallace and with Chauncey Billups. 66 to 64, a game in which the Pistons shot 34.

34.8% from the field. The Celtics shot 34.6% from the field. and the two teams combined to go four for 39 from behind the arc. Four for 39. The score at halftime was Boston 37, Detroit 33. The score at the end of three quarters of an NBA playoff game was 48 to 48. I mentioned the other night when Phoenix, or I mentioned the other day about Phoenix having just 50 points at the end of the third quarter in game seven at home. against Dallas. They ended up scoring 40 in the fourth period to end up with 90 overall,

but that I just could not remember a team having only 50 points through three quarters. Well, the NBA back in 2002, pre the elimination of the hand check, pre the defensive three-second rule, I think. It was really the elimination of the hand check that created a more free-flowing game. Remember, the NBA was in trouble. You know, we were now at the point where Jordan was gone. The three-peat of Shaq and Kobe was in the rear view a little bit. And we were into that stretch of San Antonio and the nets and the pistons and some ugly, low-scoring basketball. That, you know, teams were being stymied with hand checks and with overly physical play on the perimeter. 66 to 64. In that series, by the way, which only went

five games, Boston won that series in five. Nobody scored 100 points in a game. Nobody did. The most points scored in a game was Detroit scored 96 in game one, but the scores after that were 85 to 77, 66 to 64, 90 to 79, and then 90 to 81. Basketball was in a tough spot then. I mean, as much of an NBA fan as I have been my entire life, that was a painful stretch of basketball to watch. It really was. You know, I've said many times, and I think we even talked about it yesterday, that really 2004, the Pistons win in the NBA finals with Chauncey Billups and Rashid Wallace and Ben Wallace and Tashon Prince, Rip Hamilton, et cetera. that's the last time that a team won the title without an obvious top five player in the league. And it was just a different game there for that stretch of years.

Jordan was in the rear view. God, the Showtime Lakers were very much in the rear view. Teams were defending and they were able to get away with anything until they loosened up the rules. and allowed for a more free-flowing game by essentially more than anything, eliminating the ability to hand check on the perimeter. Anyway, I love the game last night. I love Jimmy Butler. I still think that Boston healthy, as long as they are healthy,

and get back to being at full strength. I still think they'll win this series, but God, Miami's so fun to watch if you are into really well-coached basketball teams. They have more than just one person involved, and their offensive sets. Everybody understands their role offensively. Jimmy Butler is not overly aggressive. He got 41 points last night on 12 of 19 from the field.

When I say overly aggressive, he got to the free throw line a ton. But he doesn't hunt his shots. The ball moves offensively, and they're so, so well coached by Eric Spolstra defensively. They're exceptional defensively. Boston's a very good defensive team as well. Game one tonight between Luca and Steph, Golden State, and Dallas. I mentioned yesterday, I like Golden State to win the title,

but this should be a fascinating series, and how they guard Donchich will be fun to watch. Do you double him? Do you just help off of him? You don't want to leave certain shooters wide open, You got to be careful when you help in this league, even though Dallas doesn't have the greatest necessarily of supporting casts. I would expect personally, Clay Thompson, maybe Draymond Green, guarding him and more help defense versus just outright double teams. It's hard to double in the NBA on a guy like Luca consistently.

you will end up playing, you know, being at a deficit. It'll be four on three basketball, and that's just, that's death. And usually it's death with a dunk or a wide open look. And then you're just praying that the other team misses. But I bet you that there is consistent every possession help on Luca to try to get him to either shoot contested shots or give the ball up kind of later in the shot. We'll see what happens. All right, up next, we're the commanders rank on the latest ESPN Seth Walder Analytics Football Power Index rankings.

We'll get to that next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, some breaking news, actually, in between recording the first segment and getting ready here to start this second segment. The Eagles have signed James Bradbury to a one-year deal. So Bradbury, the corner in New York last year, drafted by Ron Rivera and the Panthers back in 2016, had a high-quality year, is a high-quality corner. I mentioned this when he became available, that Washington not only should be interested, but they should try to make it work that he would be the best cornerback on their team. Bradbury signs, according to Schefter, a one-year, $10 million deal, $7.5 million of it guaranteed. So roughly two and a half million in incentives. The other thing Schefter reported is that James Bradbury initially had 11 teams reach out.

His agents whittled it down to three teams and eventually he chose the Eagles over the others. I have no idea if Washington was one of the final three, but I would bet big money that Washington was one of the 11 to reach out. Washington probably was looking for what Bradbury was going to command. The spot rack projection was like 12 million, so he got a little bit less than that. He got 10 million and really 7.5 million guaranteed roughly. And Washington was probably looking to see what the market would be like and whether or not they could afford them. Because the bottom line is, once you took on $28.3 million in salary cap hit for next year in the form of Carson Wentz in that trade,

it limited your ability to be more active in free agency. Well, Kevin, what about A.J. Brown and all the money he just got from Philadelphia. Well, his cap number next year in Philadelphia is roughly $5.5.6 million. So longer-term deal, able to structure it around the cap, had some cap flexibility with it. With the Carson Wentz deal, Washington didn't opt. to restructure. And now don't we know more than even before that this Carson Wentz trade really is about a one-year flyer no matter what they say? Because if they had significant interest in James

Bradbury and thought that they really needed to have him, which I think they should have felt, they could have restructured Wentz now and made it work with Bradbury. Maybe they did offer to do that. Bradbury chose Washington, I don't know. And there's still a chance that Washington wasn't interested at all, but I would bet a lot of money that they were one of the 11 teams to reach out and at least express some interest as long as the price got to within their range. Washington didn't restructure Carson Wentz's $28.3 million salary cap next year because it would have then meant they would have taken on more dead cap money in 2023 and 2024 if it doesn't work out with Carson Wentz in 2022. That's why. They're hoping. They don't know for sure. Most of you who are fans of the team,

and from my seat as well, there's hope. There's certainly not any sort of guarantee with Carson Wentz. I certainly expect better quarterback play than they've had in recent years, but I am not sure. And I would bet against, as I've said since they traded for him, that Carson Wentz is the long-term answer. I would bet against that. Philadelphia now has a loaded roster. They have done a hell of a job. Offensively, they've got playmakers everywhere. In the backfield, at wide receiver at tight end, the big question, of course, is at quarterback.

Their offensive line is outstanding. On defense, they're going to get Brandon Graham back to go with Fletcher Cox and Derek Barnett and the rookie Jordan Davis. They also drafted Nacobi Dean at a spot that was considered by most to be high value. They added Hassan Reddick. I think that's an underrated offseason signing. And now they're corners are James Bradbury and Darius Slay. If Jalen Hertz is the answer, Philadelphia is a Super Bowl contender in 2022. I believe in Jalen Hertz. I actually like him as a player. And I think they made the playoffs in part because Jalen Hertz's dual threat ability. They ran the ball on everybody. And Jalen Hertz is a very good running quarterback. I think he's more than that, and I think we're

going to start to find that out this year. But he did completely s the bed in that playoff game against Tampa Bay. Philadelphia is loaded with draft choices next year as well. This is a team right now that has a chance to win the NFC East and win a bunch of games. And if Hertz really steps it up here in year three, I think Philadelphia is a sleeper, NFC championship contender in 2022. That leads me to this. So I put out, I took a call this morning on the radio show and it made me think of something and I just said it out loud, even though I didn't do any research on it necessarily.

But I said to somebody at some point this morning, you know, Washington a year ago defensively was supposed to be, you know, incredible. I mean, many people thought top five defense. I saw people predict Washington's defense to be the best in the league next year. And here we are a year later. And I said, you can make the case that Washington's defense on paper anyway in terms of the talent it has is dead last in the NFC East. Philadelphia's defense is better. Dallas's defense is better.

And the Giants defense is probably at least the same as Washington's. Washington's strength is still in the defensive front. If Chase Young bounces back and continues the trend, the career trajectory, that we thought he was on after year one. If he's healthy too, Montez Sweets, same thing. I don't think we have any concerns about John Allen. Duran Payne is playing in a contract year. He's got to step up and be big.

They're going to have to get some help from their second round pick Phil Mathis. But Philadelphia is defensively, is more talented on all three levels than Washington. So is Dallas. And look, the Giants, first of all, they added Wink Martindale as their defensive coordinator. You know, they got a completely new coaching staff. But don't forget, they've got Leonard Williams and Dexter Lawrence up front. They drafted Kvon Thibodeau. They've got Martinez and O'Gillari, who I think is a star on the rise.

You know, Washington has major questions at linebacker, obviously, and questions about their secondary. And so I asked the question on Twitter this morning, and we took calls. This time last year, most fans of this team, most observers and experts commenting on the team, expected the defense to lead the way. It expected a defense it was going to be, you know, top five, maybe elite, you know, maybe the best in the league. I expected it to be improved, but we all had an understanding of the course. quarterbacks that they would be facing and that there would be, you know, perhaps an improvement,

but maybe statistically not what it was in 2020 because there was a major difference in the offenses and the quarterbacks that they were facing on their 2021 schedule versus their 2020 schedule. And this year, you can just make the case very easily that you're more confident in the offense than you were on the defense. And that's the NFL for you, man. When you don't have the answer at quarterback. Things change year to year week to week. Last year, it was the defense. It was going to carry them and hopefully Fitzpatrick would be better than what they've had and they could win nine or ten games and get back to the postseason after making it in 2020. But it was going to be the defense that led the way and it didn't. And this year, the offense. 63.6% of the people

believe that the offense will lead the way this year, not the defense. 36.4% think it's the defense. What a difference a year makes. Last year, defense, defense, defense, this year, offense, offense. No, it's not as loud this year as it was last year. There was a certainty to the conversation about the defense last year that does not exist this year. There are a lot of question marks around Carson Wentz in particular. Reasonable, justifiable concerns about about Carson Wentz. He could be better, but will he be good enough? But last year, defense, defense, and people were 100% convinced that this was going to be a very good defense, if not an elite defense, and it wasn't. And this year, as the poll reflects, people are more inclined to lean in the direction

of the offense leading the way. So that leads me to this before we get to Scott. So ESPN does its power rankings, which are really voted on and discussed by the beat reporters for each of the 32 teams like John Kime here in Washington. But Seth Walder, who writes for their analytics group at ESPN, he puts together something that's more predictive based on a lot of different metrics. He calls it his ESPN. called the ESPN Football Power Index. And it uses a lot of predictive kind of statistical modeling, no matter how much you believe in that. This is just something that's thought out a little bit more. And it's the first thing that I have found, really, that's out there already post-draft that ranks defenses and offenses for next year. And I was just curious as to what anybody was saying

about next year's teams offensively and defensively, because, as we just discussed, there is a belief now that Washington's offense is better than its defense. And I mentioned that I think Washington's defense could be on paper the worst defense in the division right now. I certainly don't think it's as good as Dallas's or Philadelphia's defense, and the Giants defense as mentioned isn't terrible either and has a new defensive coordinator. So this was the first thing that I found that kind of predicts offensive and defensive rankings for next year. Now, they're overall, if you're curious, rankings of the teams, the football power index

rankings has the Bills as the best team in the league, the Packers, Rams, Chiefs, Bucks, Cowboys, Chargers, Colts with Matt Ryan Cardinals and Browns as the top 10. They've got Washington at 20. ahead of the Giants by two spots, and behind Philadelphia by two spots. Philadelphia is at 18, the Giants are at 22. If you're wondering if Washington's overall football power index ranking of 20th is good enough to make the playoffs in the weekend NFC, it isn't. They've got Washington as the ninth-best NFC team. They've got the Packers, Rams, Bucks, Cowboys, Cardinals, Vikings, Eagles, and Saints. ahead of Washington and their overall football power index rankings for next year.

Now, as it relates to where their defense is supposed to be, at least based on this, that's what I was looking for. I was looking for something, you know, in terms of what people out there outside of this area are thinking about Washington offensively and defensively this year. Well, Washington defensively, according to Seth Walder's foot Football Power Index will have the 26th ranked defense in the league next year. 26th. Now remember the football outsider's DVOA metric of where they ranked last year, 27th. They were 27th last year at the end of the year.

They were third the year before in the football outsider's DVOA metric. But in this football power index predictive ranking for next year on ESPN, produced by Seth Walder in his team in the analytics department at ESPN, Washington predicted to have the 26th best defense in the NFL next year, tied with the New York football giants. The Eagles are ahead of them. The Eagles are projected to have the 23rd ranked defense. Man, I would have thought that it would have been higher. and Dallas projected to have the sixth best defense in the NFL. So there is, you know, somebody outside of our world looking at all 32 teams and saying today on May 18th, and maybe the Eagles will be higher after acquiring Bradbury, that Washington will have the 26th best defense in the NFL this year. what a difference a year makes.

If you're wondering, offensively, 19th, the 19th best offense in the league. Dallas is predicted to have the fourth best offense in the league, Philadelphia, the 17th best offense in the league, and the Giants, the 23rd best offense in the league. So Washington, third best offense in the division, tied for the worst defense predicted in 2022 in the division. There was something else, too, that I wanted to look for if I found the kind of predictions

on offensive and defensive rankings for next year. Last year, defensively, with all of the positivity and optimism around its defense, we all really focused in on the fact that they were going to face a, you know, group of quarterbacks that seemed almost unprecedented in terms of a schedule. You know, Washington facing all those great quarterbacks. And by the way, not just great quarterbacks, highly skilled offensive teams. And if everybody stayed healthy for the most part, it was going to be murderers row. And we acknowledged that while the defense was going to be great, or we thought it was going to be really, really good, you know, they had a challenge last year.

So this year, if we flip it around and say we're more optimistic about the offense, well, what will the offense be facing in terms of defenses on their schedule? Is it possible that the defenses that the offense, the improved offense is going to face, are just so good that maybe we won't see the results? Or is it so bad that it should absolutely thrive next year? So based on this ESPN Football Power Index and the rankings that, you know, drove the overall team rankings, offense and defense, et cetera, I wanted to look at what they were predicting Washington's schedule to be next year defensively. And the results are kind of mixed. You know, they face, the best defense they face based on, again, Seth Walters' predictions for next year, is Indianapolis's defense, predicted to be the third best defense in the NFL. That's followed by two games against Dallas predicted to have the sixth best defense in the NFL. They'll also face Green Bay, the 10th best defense in the NFL based on these predictions.

Tennessee, the 11th best defense in the NFL based on these predictions. And believe it or not, Atlanta, who is predicted to have the 16th best defense in the NFL. So that would be five of their seven. games against defenses predicted to be in the top half of the league. Indy, again, two against Dallas, Green Bay, Tennessee, and Atlanta. Every other game, okay, the other 11 are against defenses in the back half of the league based on this prediction. San Francisco's defense is supposed to be, for whatever reason, much worse.

this year. 17th best. That's followed by some teams that really start to get into the lower end of the league in terms of predicted defensive rankings next year. Philadelphia, two games against them at 23. Then you go following that, the Giants at 26, we've already talked about they're tied with Washington for 26th. You get two games against them. Then you've got Jacksonville predicted to be a terrible defense at 28th. Then at 30th the Bears, and then at 31st, Detroit, and 32nd, Houston. Washington has four games against teams that are predicted to rank between 28th and 32nd in the league. And they'll play the 30th, 31st, and 32nd ranked defenses, if this turns out to be true. In Chicago, Detroit, and Houston. So six games against the predicted top half of the

league, 11 against the predicted back half of the league, and several games against teams ranked 23rd and lower. Two against Philly, all right? Two against the Giants. And then you get Jacksonville, Chicago, Detroit, and Houston. That's eight games against teams that are predicted to be 23rd or lower in the NFL next year. So offensively, and again, it might not work out that way. But offensively, it's not really what the defense was facing going in to 2021. All right, Scott Van Pelt next, right after these words from a. few of our sponsors.

Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. Doesn't cost you a thing. Rate us and review us, especially on Apple and Spotify. It's a big help for us. Scott Van Pelt is at Southern Hills in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where he has been all week long getting ready for the PGA championship this weekend at an iconic course. First of all, before we get to the course, which the players seem to like, for those who have never been to Tulsa.

What's Tulsa like? It's fascinating. I'm actually, as we speak, I'm on my drive-in, and it was this drive-in the other day that just my head was all a swivel, just trying to process it all. It's just a, it seems like it's kind of an eclectic mix of all sorts of things. There are lots of dispensaries if you need it. If you need weed of any kind, you're good.

plenty of those options yeah i don't know why we actually had a meal a meal last night fantastic a meal with a local this is actually a great story um it there's a guy on twitter named bunkey perkins who's who i followed is a very funny follow and um we met him out last night he's a local resident he set it up at this great restaurant i'll give him a pop called smoke if you're in Tulsa, go to smoke. It's really good. And we were laughing about it going in because it's like, who knows who this person could be an insane person. I mean, we could wind up, you know, in a hotel and Broken Arrow with our Oregon carpenter. Broken Arrow, yeah.

Well, no, no, no. We met the real monkey Perkins. He's a real life person who's a fantastic guy, great company. He set us up in this great back room at this place called Smoke. And, you know, he was given it kind of a lay on land of Tulsa. And the funny thing, Kevin, is years and years and years ago, I used to come out to Oklahoma because my grandpa was from the town in the northeast corner of this day called Miami. And so I've been to Tulsa and then driven out. And I know some of the local things I mentioned this spot where we used to go. And this guy was just laughing.

He's like, you know, Grand Lake? I'm like, you did my family, my great-granddad had a house out there and blah, blah, blah. Anyway. So I think it's a, I mean, it's. I mean, I don't pretend to know a lot about it. We drive to the golf course and then we go back to our hotel. But it's an incredible golf course. I think they're going to have a phenomenal week here.

So tell us about the golf course. The players seem to be raving about it. It's fantastic. I'm just, I walked the front nine on Monday with Brian Harmon. I walked the back nine yesterday. It was a fun group. It was Max Homa. A guy named Taylor Gooch,

Zander Shafelay, Patrick Cantlay. And it's just, it's just visually, I think it's fun to look at, because Gilhance, who's the golf course architect, came in here and about three years ago and kind of redid some things. The creeks are more pronounced,

the bunkers are more pronounced, but just what you're looking at visually, I think it presents itself well, and it's a big ballpark. It's a big golf course. They've taken off the rough from around the green so that's all run off. So it's almost in some ways reminiscent of, like, say, a Pinehurst in that way. Right.

But the Greens aren't Pinehurst, because Pinehurst Greens, as people listening that are golf fans know are like these upside-down saucers. So it almost repels a shot, even one that might be hit pretty well. It's not like that here. If you had a good shot, you're going to stay on Greens. But if you hit a poor shot and it's running, it's going to run through. So short game is going to be massively important here this week because you're not going to hit all these dreams

because it's supposed to be windy. It's hot now, but it's going to be on the weekend, like, in the 60s, which is odd. By the way, I'm going to be 97 at home on Saturday. Yeah, 97. Yeah. What are we doing? Very hot. That's no good at all. But it's just, it's big.

You know, you always talk about score and, like, with the wind, you don't know. No one's ever got to double digits here. This is the eighth major they've had. And I think somebody could, because I think someone, these guys are so good, Kevin, if somebody shot, you know, 64, you know, even 63. I mean, would I be shocked if someone did that? No, that's what these guys do. But if it gets windy and it gets the green that do get a little bit faster, which they could because they dry out quick when the humidity's gone, then it'll be a massive battle.

Well, what do you think that, what is the projected winning score this week? No, no clue. I mean, like I said, talking to Andy, I mean, this is all just sort of the kind of, like, for instance, I had a talk yesterday with a guy named Scott for Plank, who, of course, a well-known name from, who's not on the tour now, but played for many, many years, lives about an hour away and has played here a bunch. In fact, I think in 2007 on the weekend, he might have been in the group with Tiger on Saturday for playing plays. well in 07, but he was, you know, we were having this conversation. I said, I said, you think somebody could shoot this? And he said, well, sure, but he said the wind's the great unknown because when the wind blows and the temperature drops, because it's like 90 today.

But when it gets to the 60s, as Scott said, and the humidity goes away, the greens do get quicker quickly. And then all of a sudden, you know, anything under par becomes really hard to find. I think whatever Tiger shot in 2007, almost it was seven or eight, most of it was done in one round. He shot a 63 and had one round of that. So almost all the damage was done in one day. So I keep thinking somebody's going to shoot 10, but I could be completely wrong if the weather's not conducive to shooting something in the 60s. That was his only round of 63 in a major, right?

That sounds right That sounds right What are you 53 forever is the lowest Yeah Go ahead What are you expecting from him this weekend That's what a lot of people want to know

I mean Anything I say is a gush Because the last time we saw him He was shooting 78 78 At a gust on the weekend And And did it with a smile Because

You know I think it represented Some significant And we haven't seen him Since since then And so I don't know how you can possibly know. I mean, I know, I think he's a little, my understanding is he's a little better physically. I mean, he's maybe a little stronger.

But this walks no treat either. It's not august, but I mean, there's some significant hills. I mean, it's called Southern Hills for a reason. You know, after that first D, I was joking the other day when I was walking with Brian Harmer, I said, I just want to lay down and roll down the hill. It seems it could be easier. like it's straight to you broke up there it's straight down it's straight down hill yeah yeah yeah i mean it's like it's elevated tea and you walk you you got you walk straight down a very steep

pill off of one tee but i mean the thing like for instance the last time we saw jordan's piece um he played at augusty missed the cut well then he won at harbortown he finished second last week um in texas so you have some idea of where he is well We haven't seen Tiger since the Masters. So what do I expect? When I say, well, I think he'll do this. I don't have a frigging clue. So, I mean, I'm happy to say something if you want me to make it up.

Well, I don't want you to make it up. But how can I answer that question when I had no idea? I haven't seen him and I don't know. Okay, I still think it was a decent question and one that people would want the answer to, even if the answers you don't know. No, no, no. I'm not talking your question. No, I know you're not.

I know you're not. I'm telling you. I'm telling you, I don't have an answer. for your question. I have no answer. Here's the thing that we know, don't we? I mean, he could injure himself again this weekend and there could be a back injury or something, but it does appear given that there was speculation that he might not play this. And now all of a sudden there's talk that he might play the memorial that Tiger for what we've, you know, Tiger's back to a certain degree, isn't he? Well, he's back playing golf. I mean, like the whole definition of back,

is, I mean, has been all the, you know, it's been Tigers back. What was that mean? Back to being Tiger? Like, back to being the Tiger Woods that was the guy that won, like, 7 of 11 majors. No, he's not back, but he's back playing. That's all that's all you can ask for. So, I mean, yes, I'm with you, because when he left Augusta, I thought, you know, maybe he doesn't play until St. Andrews.

But the, the, the kids, his competitive fire is such that he's not just going to sit around if he's able to do it at all. So, I don't know. I mean, I was told that he was very, you know, enthusiastic about, hey, man, let's go. I mean, that I know, just in terms of being his appetite to get out there and compete is there. He's not here. Again, it's not ceremonial.

It's not just because he's got nothing else to do it. It's because he wants to try to compete. So I think that's optimistic. And, I mean, the golf, the golf looked pretty good early at Augusta, And then I think the toll of the weekend, and it was very cool and the walk and all the rest of it by Saturday, Sunday. I mean, you know, 78, 78. I mean, I think that's the one time you'll ever see him shoot that

and smile walking off a golf course. I don't think he's not here hoping to do that. I know that much. But I just haven't got a clue about what's reasonable to think or what his form is because we just don't have anything to go off of. Yeah, I wonder when we will, as golf fans, get to the point where it's not exciting or we don't think deep down somewhere that he's actually got a chance since he's playing.

Like, I hope it's still years from now. I hope we still have like a three, four, five year run of Tiger playing enough to think that he's got a chance because I just think it makes the overall event just much bigger. Totally agree with that. And I do think that what Phil did last year, winning at 51. I think, or he was just about 51, his birthday's in June, that Tiger's physical fitness outside of all of these been through, in terms of surgeries and all, gives you, gives you the hope that you'll get that.

I was interesting. I was talking to one of the players about sort of about Tiger and, like, what do you think in terms of how long? And I said, I don't know. I think his hunger to compete is never going to wane. but it is a tricky kind of a deal for the game because there's a ton of players who are exciting and guys that people like to watch.

You know, Max Homa, the one in our neighborhood. People really like Max. He's a fantastic guy, and a likable guy, and a guy worth rooting for, and there's so many different types of players like that in the game, but they are the... would be the first to say, none of us are that guy.

None of us to captivate people's imagination and attention like Tiger. I mean, look, there's a reason why our ratings were, what they were for the Masters. And CBS is rating for what they were because, you know, because he's in the mix. Everyone knows that. So let's talk about Phil for a moment, because I think a lot of people start paying attention for the majors. And I know this question was asked prior to the Masters, but, you know, he had a chance to play this weekend and defend his PGA championship. In the simplest of terms for people who haven't been paying attention, why isn't Phil

Michaelson playing golf right now? Well, I can only guess. I mean, he was linked to this Saudi back tour. He made comments to an author named Alan Shepnuk who wrote a biography, unauthorized biography, which I guess came out this week, where he made the comments

about the Saudis and they were pretty inflammatory. And then he ended up releasing this lengthy statement apologizing pretty much everybody other than, I guess, the PGA tour for what he had to say, and then he basically put himself in exile saying he was stepping away, and he hasn't come back. And so why is he not here this week?

Well, I don't know. And is it because he didn't want to have to, as a defending champion? And, well, just as Phil Mickelson, he would have had a press conference. Well, had he had a press conference, Kevin, and it would have been packed, and people would have said, what exactly did you mean by all the different things that you said? And then he had to answer them. Putting out a statement, you control the narrative,

and you avoid being asked any pointed questions. And I just, my sense is that his appetite to be asked questions about what he had to say is nil, or he'd already done it. And so it creates this fascinating dual storylines where a year ago at Keowel, he's the oldest major winner ever. And he's always been a beloved player. And when we left Keel, Kevin, had you told me that a year later, Tiger Woods, who'd just been in this horrific accident, would play at Southern Hills.

And if Phil wouldn't, I wouldn't have believed either. But both are true. And so at some point, Phil will resurface. And I just, I don't know when it will be. Is it going to be at one of these Saudi events where he's going to be. to play. Because at some point, somebody's going to ask him questions about what his story is and what he's doing. But he hasn't answered any questions yet. All he's done is put out a statement. They're going to ask him about the $40 million reported $40 million in gambling losses during a

five-year period as well, among other things. It's weird to me this situation right now. And this is obviously from afar, but I'll try to explain it as best I can. Phil's always struck me as a guy that, you know, has all the answers and is rarely wrong in his own mind. And this just seems to me like, you know, people are getting, you know, essentially forced into exile for just a lot worse than what he said or what he was contemplating with respect to the Saudi tour or any of the other stuff that's in this book. And I guess my feeling is it's like really weird that he hasn't just stepped up and faced the music and explained it away the way, the way he believes he can explain it a way, you know, where he gets very philosophical and sort of his answers and

explains as a guy that, you know, kind of comes off as a guy that thinks he's smarter than everybody in the room. And yet, what is true right now is what you said. He's in exile. And right, so here's what I don't know. Is that self-imposed? Did the tour ask him to sit down for some period of time and suspended? If so, for what? Like, over what would he have been suspended? It seems, like, that's the thing is that there's these questions you don't know.

I mean, it seems like he stepped away. I mean, he said he was stepping away to work on, I don't know the exact wording, something about to try to be a better, this, that, and the other thing. And, okay. And look, somebody's playing on this tour. I mean, Lee Westwood was asked some questions about it, and he explained how or a bunch of different sports that compete there, and golf certainly has through the years.

And, you know, there will be players who turn up to play at this event, at these events, I should say. I think, you know, the way Phil described them and, you know, you know talking about the Saudis in general I mean everyone knows the comments you made the shipbook I don't know that those on their own would have they wouldn't have prevented him from being a defending champion here

but it would have required him sitting down and being asked questions about it and he didn't want to do it he didn't put out that he didn't say I'm not planning he told the PGA on Friday afternoon late and the PGA of America put the statement out so it's just I don't know it creates a very it gets it gets curiouser

and curiouser, right? I mean, the longer that he says nothing publicly on the, you know, on the record, then the more you just are left to wonder,

well, what are we doing here? Maybe Bunky Perkins has the answer to all of that. I don't know. Bunky knows where to get a good meal

and pulse. I know that much. Yeah, smoke. All right, real quickly, who do you like and why? And then give me

like a sleeper that people aren't thinking about that you think's got a really good chance. Well, I think the conversation has to start with Scotty Sheffler. It's a very simple fact that he's the number one player in the world. The last major was the master's. He showed up ranked number one and one. And he won when the Big 12 played here back when he was in college, he played an event here, one. He's played, he's called this his favorite golf course in the world.

I mean, he's that guy, right? I mean, you show up number one at the Masters and win. I mean, that's only ever happened once before. It was Ian Woosden many years ago. And it's a course where you have history and you fit your favorite. I mean, sometimes I've said this a lot about this question what I've been asked. Sometimes, Kevin, I think we work really hard to try to be clever and figure out like a sneaky answer. Sometimes you just say what's obvious like that.

Scotty Shefflin. You start with him. But as I've walked it, the last couple of days, I'm getting ready to head out and take another stroll. I mean, the fairways are massive. Good drivers of the golf ball are going to play well. Good ball structure is going to play well. And short game is really important. I really like Speed.

Since the Masters, he won at Harbor Town, and he finished second last week. and his short games is clever as any in the world. He can really rely on that, and it would be a tremendous storyline. No one's ever finished the slam with the PGA, which is with Speed now, is going to spend the rest of his career trying to do. It wouldn't shock me at all if you were to play well and win. Ball hitters, like guys have really are known for ball striking. Amorakawa, I would expect to play well here.

I think Zander Shafley is a guy who off last week where he shot 61, very different kind of golf course, but he played great on Sunday. And he's the kind of player, I think, at some point, has to just bust through in a major. A name that probably you're not going to hear said it necessarily, but is a really well-regarded player and has some of the things you want to lean into this week, maybe a Daniel Berger. I think Berger's the guy that can play well in this golf course.

So I wouldn't call him a sleeper per se. I just don't think you'd hear that name necessarily mentioned on ours. air or even maybe even the golf channel beforehand, but if you're in one of those pools and you're picking a guy from this column and that column and the other column, I think he's a name that might be a decent name to lean in, too.

I like Harmon, too. Now, granted, I just want to be honest, I told Steve this on our podcast, Kevin, whoever I walk with, I see him hit it, and I go, wow, fine harm is good. He could play well here, but he drives it great and has played well in majors.

He's one of those sneaky guys that you don't think about him first or last. He's a little guy, isn't he? He's not a big guy. He is a – we were laughing about, you know, about my height and his height, and we made a good combo. But he's just an awesome dude. Huge sports fan. We had a great walk just talking about sports.

And you watch this guy kind of, you know, absent-mindedly. Like, I mean, he's doing his work. But, I mean, the chatter is – we're engaged in conversation the whole time. I'm trying to make sure I'm not bothering him, right? But you're just watching him not really grinding seemingly, but just effortlessly hitting fairways and greens and rolling in putts, and you just think, Jesus Christ, these people play a game that is just so astounding, man.

And when you see it up close, it just makes you realize it, you and your buddies and me and my buddies, I mean, we like to play, but oh, my gosh, we don't do anything resembling any of what they do. So back to Sheffler, so is that our new thing? We're going with the obvious now? No, I'm just saying that like... No, I actually think going with the obvious now is the contrarian move. I think so many people now are on to this, oh, it's too obvious, can't go there.

Maybe that's the new contrarianism, is to go with the obvious. I don't know if it's the contrarian. I just, I think that we all, and by we, I mean, people like you and me, Kevin, who spend our time in the content of sports and how, presenting it however we do, I think we can sometimes try too hard to figure out something to make us seem smart. And in this case, I'm just saying it isn't necessary. You can, you can point to the guy who's number one who won the last masters who, who says, says this is his favorite course and go him. Let's start with him. And, okay, we got him? Okay, good.

Now you want to, now, I mean, look, John Rom's just as obvious. Could he win? Of course, I think I picked him for ESPN.com. I mean, I get asked so many times by the end of the week. I've got everybody. The winner somewhere, you know what I mean? So I just think, Sheffler maybe isn't the most, you know, you're supposed to have some kind of insight that's beyond the obvious, right?

and I don't know that I do here. He's the guy. I mean, and it's amazing how quickly he became that. He's earned that kind of, those kind of bona fides. Have you gotten over the caps or not? Sure. I mean, you can make fun of me, and you do. I'm not making fun of you.

I know how upset you were last Friday night. I just am asking a simple question. I think the Stanley Cup playoffs are fascinating because the difference between winning and losing is incredibly minuscule. I mean, look at the – look at the – look at Sunday in the NBA, and look at Sunday in the – The overtime and the playoffs. Two NBA games blowouts both.

Two Stanley Cup playoff games, overtime both. Look at the caps. They're up two games to one. They're up two to one in game four. they hit a post with an empty net. If they make that, they're ahead three to one in the series. Instead, they don't. The Panthers tie it, and they lose in overtime.

The caps are up three-nothing in game five. The Panthers who have the most comebacks in the NHL, come back and win that. The caps have the lead in game six. Overtime, they lose that. I mean, the difference between the one-seat beating the caps and the caps being the team that moved on was fractional. And I just think that that would be an incredibly painful existence. and it's not exclusive to the caps.

Look at the Toronto Maple Leafs. They haven't won a playoff series in almost 20 years, and they have a great team, and they couldn't beat the lightning, because you can't beat the lightning. You have to kill them 26 times for them to die. It's... I really love them.

I can't skate. I've never played hockey my whole life, but I find the Stanley Cup playoffs to be the most compelling theater in playoff sports. I think it's true. You know that I love watching these Stanley Cup playoffs, these, you know, these overtime games, these seventh and deciding games. I think one of the real ironies of the conversation about hockey, especially with people like the two of us,

where we'll say there's this incredible fine line and, you know, and they've had all these game seven losses, the caps. And if not for those, maybe Ovechkin's got three Stanley Cup appearances and one Stanley Cup title. And it's random and this and that. And I think there's a certain truth to that. And at the same time, it's hard to find a sport with more dynasties than the NHL, you know, long runs of Stanley Cup winners. That's interesting. And I mean, that's what makes this Tampa Bay team incredible to me.

And we've had their coach, Coach Cooper on a number of occasions. I really, he's got a really interesting story, how he got where he is. and the first year they won. I had written down Virginia. I was going to ask him about Virginia because they had been the one, of course, the number one seed, and they lost. And just like that, Tampa Bay had been the one seed

the year before they won their first cup, and they got swept by the eight seed. It was the blue jacket. And as he was getting ready to come on, I saw he had a Virginia hat. And I said, is that a Virginia hat? And he said, oh, yeah, and I said, that's incredible. And that's where we started,

about how he kind of embraced that notion with his guys that, look, you can have expectation. And something goes wrong, but you've come back from it and you win a title the way Virginia did. The UMBC thing for people who aren't following, following, when they lost the UMBC as a one versus a 16. Right, Virginia, yes, that's what I'm trying to say. Virginia basketball team lost as a one. Then they came back the next year and they won a title. And so Cooper had kind of embraced that idea with his team. and since then they've won two Stanley Cups in a row,

and they were down to Toronto, a team that was expected to finally win a series, and they went up in Toronto and won a game seven. And I just, it is interesting that, I mean, there are two in a row in this era is dynastic. You know, we haven't seen a team win three in a row in any sport since the Lakers in the early 2000. So that is fascinating that a sport where the margins are so narrow, it seems to be so well i mean you know i did i did this more common than other sports yeah i did i did this a few weeks ago it's like if you start with like montreal and in the 70s then the islanders 70s into the 80s then edmonton and gretsky and then lemieux in pittsburg and then detroit and then

you know you had you know the penguins in the in the black hawks and and now you've got the lightning with two in a row it's just um you know you obviously had the blues in the cap and you obviously had the who had never won it. Well, maybe the Blues had won it many, many years ago, but it had been forever. But it's just, it's a sport where everybody talks about, me included, knowing nothing about the sport, how, you know, pucks bounce off a pad and off a post and go either in or out,

and that's the difference. And yet there have been so many dominant teams in the history of the sport. True. But I do think what makes it such incredible theater is to go back. back and retrace the steps and see how close it was to being, you know, yeah, a loss. The other outcome. How, how, I mean, look, Colorado Avalanche played Nashville in the first round,

and they swept them, and they were up five-nothing in the first game in the first 15 minutes, and they, you know, they swept, and it was easy. And they happened to win an overtime game last night against the Blues. But, like, mostly, it's series like the Caps and the Panthers. where it could be anything. I mean, it could have been, the other team could have won, and had the Capitals won, nothing about that outcome would have felt inappropriate.

Nothing about it would have felt like, well, they shouldn't have been the team that won. It was very close to being just that. And I guess that's what makes me so compelled by a sport that I have absolutely no understanding of how I couldn't do any of what they do. and I do enjoy it. And I was bummed for them. I like this team.

They're an older team. You know, you're only going to get so many more of these with that kind of core group of guys that were part of that cup winning team. And maybe that's the problem. I mean, you know, the chatter from other people's eye,

you're old, you got all your money sunk into older people, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, people have explained it to me. It's funny about that because people have explained to me over the last week. The irony is that,

you know, the window was closing when they, won it in 2018, you know, according to a lot of the hockey people. And then they won it. And then it was, well, you know, if they're going to take advantage of it, Ovechkin's got to keep up the pace. And he has, you know, he has not fallen off. And yet they've gone out in the first round four straight years now. But I mean, again, look at how they've lost. I mean, how they lost the Carolina, how they lost this. And, you know, you lose Tom Wilson in the middle of that first game. Is it a different series if you have him? Is it a different thing?

series of Boveschkin, but completely right. I mean, who knows? It doesn't, I guess in the end, it doesn't matter because it's, you know, it's over and it's over. So, I mean, but there's a very long answer to it. I was bummed for them. I really enjoyed, we went down to that game. I look forward to going to more in the future. My kids had a blast, and I explained on the, I explained on my podcast, and my little guy's like, who's over chicken? and when Charlie saw the jury. Charlie said over churkin, over chicken? Yeah, he goes, who's over chicken?

Yeah. And then Sam got mad. He goes, he's your best player, Charlie. And so in our house, number eight is over chicken. Well, I'll tell you this. I think I've told you this before. You know how much my boys loved going to games, Maryland basketball games in particular.

But for a truly young person, and by the way, I think this goes for, any age. I think hockey is the best sport live. Like, I think it's much, or the disparity between live and television is the greatest with hockey. It is so great live. And it's good on television, and we just talked about how we're both, you know, into the NHL playoffs, especially, you know, I think somebody should build an app that indicates, you know, that basically tells you when a game is going into overtime in the NHL playoffs and what network it's on. and where to turn to right away, because there's nothing more dramatic in terms of the ending

than a hockey overtime playoff game. But it's a great product live, really good product live. Truly, and I think I haven't been to a ton of Capitol games, but I always lead there thinking it's a great building, there's great energy. They do a tremendous job with just the lighting and the atmosphere and the mood that's created, right, with the production. I think, I mean, I don't know that it's unique to them. I just know that they do it really well in terms of what it looks like and what it sounds

like. And it's, you know, the kids are just, it's so loud. I feel it's loud because they scored six goals. I mean, it's not always, you don't always have this many eruptions. But it is, it's breathtaking the speed of it and to see it, to see plays executed live. I mean, it's not unlike walking right next to these. players in the fairway and seeing things and realizing what they're capable of. And when you sit down there close and you see these athletes on the ice doing what they're doing, you just

shake your head and amazement. It's incredible that sport up close. It's just, just breathtaking. All right. I know you have to go, but I would just thought of something because I was just looking at TV. And Patrick Beverly's been on... So you don't care that I have to go and are going to ask me something else. Yeah, exactly. Patrick Beverly's been on your network all week long and he's made headlines all week long. And I remember, and it was just recently, for whatever reason, in a conversation we were having, Pat Beverly's name came up. And you said about him as an interview, what? That I found him to be one of the most interesting people that I've ever talked to in all of my time, because he's interesting, and he asks questions about you, because he's interested

in you, and he's sincere about that. At least that's the conversations that he and I have. had, and I mean his story of how he came up and how he kind of had to go overseas and really create a lane for himself, which he has, I've always appreciated. And he's last couple of days he's just going on TV with a flamethrower, I guess. It's incredible what he said about Chris Paul called him the cone. But, you know, it's so interesting about guys like him. First of all, he's one of these crazy competitive dudes. I've always loved watching him.

But I think guys that have played overseas for a long period of time before they make it, there's a more well-roundedness to them than just the guy that goes straight to the NBA, especially like at a high schooler from the G-League. I think you get that from... I also think there's an appreciation that's different. If all you've ever known is being a five-star who went to a high-level program, who was a lottery pick, well, then this was always ordained from the start.

And I don't fault that player for not having perspective because if all you've ever known is, you know, high thread count sheets and fillet, you know, you sleep comfortably and you eat well, all right? If you have not, if you've not known that and you've had to go play abroad and you've had to create some kind of a path for yourself and are doubted and are traded and whatever else, then I definitely think that the chip that you put on your shoulder that becomes, I mean, in his case, it's a boulder. My God, he's like Santa Claus with a bag full of rocks he's carrying around. That's real.

It's not manufactured. Now, I've been out here working, so all I've seen is sort of the chatter on Twitter or whatever. I mean, and I say this thing, I like Patrick Beverly because I do. At some point, I don't know that we need days and days of him going on TV and just think. Everyone sucks. I don't know if that's what he's been doing. He has not been doing that. But I've been, I've been. It seems like he's got a, he's got a bone to pick with Chris Paul.

Right. Yeah, and others, but I think he's been highly complimentary of others as well. All right. Enjoy this weekend. I will talk to you soon. Thank you for doing this. It's my pleasure as always be well. All right. We are done for the day. I'll be back tomorrow with Tommy.