The Kevin Sheehan Show - What Comes Next?

Episode Date: January 8, 2026

Kevin opened with everything including the latest news related to the Washington Commanders' openings at Offensive Coordinator and Defensive Coordinator. Tom Schad/Washington Post joined Kevin to discuss why Kliff Kingsbury is gone and what might happen next. ESPN's Stanford Steve jumped on to preview the College Football Playoff Semifinal games tomorrow night and Friday night. For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it, you don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show, here's Kevin. I've got two guests on the show with me today. Tom Shad from the Washington Post, he covers the team, he'll jump on with me in the next segment to talk about the Kingsbury departure and a lot more. Following Tom, my guy, Stanford, Steve, will join me. He'll be on his way to ever. Arizona and the Fiesta Bowl for tomorrow night's first semi-final game between Miami and Ole Miss.

Can't wait to watch that. He'll jump on in the final segment of the show to preview both the game tomorrow night and the Friday night game in Atlanta at the Peach Bowl between Oregon and Indiana. Window Nation is the presenting sponsor of this show if you need new windows. My recommendation is to call Window Nation. 86690 Nation, WindowNation.com. Mention my name,

they'll take really good care of you. This from Will to kick off the show, and I love this question from Will. By the way, Will writes initially, I'm a fan of the show living in McKinery, Maryland. You've probably never heard of it. Actually, Will, I have heard of McKinery, Maryland. if it's the same McHenry, Maryland that is in Garrett County,

you know, Deep Creek Lake, God's country out there. I know McHenry, Maryland, beautiful out there. By the way, for anybody who's never spent time in Western Maryland, in Garrett County, Deep Creek Lake, Wisp, the ski resort, it is gorgeous, and it's literally a different climate altogether. Garrett County, Maryland, it's two and a half, hours from D.C. averages over a hundred inches of snow every winter. I mean, that is a different climate altogether. And in the summer, no humidity. I doubt that it ever gets above 85 degrees. And if

it is hot, temperature-wise, it's not humid. It's at elevation. It's at, you know, 2,500 to 3,000 feet, and that's why they get a completely different weather pattern and situation. But anyway, Will writes a good one. He writes Kevin. I was thinking about old Danny boy. If Snyder was still the owner, would Dan Quinn be the coach today? Will, that's a good one. And my answer immediately is no, he would not be the head coach today. In fact, I'll give you the last you know, 48 hours if Dan Snyder were still the owner. The Eagles game would have ended. Jaden's mom would have called Dan because, of course, she would have had the access to call Dan,

and she would have said, Cliff needs to stay. And Dan would have then gotten on the phone with Adam Peters and said, Adam, I want you to fire Dan Quinn and elevate Cliff Kingsbury to head coach. And by the way, if you don't want to do it, you're fired too. The one problem with that whole scenario is Adam Peters would not be here if Snyder was still the owner. But let me play it out that way. Anyway, yeah, I think Dan Quinn would be gone. And I think it's very possible given how much Jaden Daniels loves Cliff Kingsbury that Cliff would be the head coach.

Thank you for that, Will. wasn't that fun. Gerald isn't happy about the way this season ended. Who is? Gerald emailed me. Kevin, we're back to the clown show days again. A bottom barrel season followed by a house cleaning of coaches. I can't believe we're back to this again after last year.

Yeah, Gerald, there's a big difference between this situation and, you know, know, olden days, olden times, the way it used to be. All right, the clown show. The big difference is the clown is gone. We don't have Dan Snyder. And by the way, we have a quarterback. I can't get to where some of you are with that. And it's not the first time I've heard it, where some of you are like, this is back to the way it used to be, total, you know, idiot show, total embarrassment clown show. No, it's not. It's totally different. You've got a chance to climb out of that bottom of the barrel with different ownership without Dan here. Dan's not here anymore.

So there's a chance to climb out of this thing. In fact, I think there's a really good chance, assuming you don't have the carnage that you had this year, injury-wise, that they'll be a competitive good team next year. I certainly think they will be that on offense, no matter who they hire. as an offensive coordinator because they do have the quarterback. But time will tell on that one. And then this from Scott Jay, Scott Jay writes from Fairfax, Scott Jay in Fairfax. He writes, Kevin, I think you missed the biggest part of the story with Kingsbury.

Jaden will be on his second offensive coordinator in three seasons. And if Cliff's replacement is a good one and Jaden doesn't get hurt next year, That guy will be gone, and Jaden will be on O.C. number three, entering season number four. Not a great situation, which is why Harris should have hired an offensive head coach to begin with. So, the first thing I would say, Scott, is I don't think that that's the biggest part of the Kingsbury story. I don't think I missed the biggest part of the Kingsbury story. The biggest part of the Kingsbury story is that Kingsbury isn't here anymore, and Dan Quinn, this is what I believe, more than anything now, you know, a day after it happened, my belief is this was a Dan Quinn decision. I do believe that. The fact that Dan Quinn didn't want him anymore, that he's gone and Dan Quinn didn't want him after two seasons.

that's the story. That's the biggest part of the story. Let's not act like we saw this coming. There was some conversation here and there, including on this podcast, you know, at various times, especially late in the season, specifically after that Minnesota game, where I do think that that game was a pivotal moment.

Like, I'm not sure that it was top of mind for Dan Quinn in terms of moving on from Cliff Kingsbury, until that Minnesota game where he was annoyed by the play calling Cliff fell on his sword we talked about this the other day and took blame for it and said he called a terrible game they had pass protection issues

against Brian Flores' defense remember Steve Suter pointing out the fact that they kept going with the same cadence which just allowed their pass rushers to tee off that game I think really got to Dan Quinn I think it may have been a pivotal moment. You know, it may have been the first kind of legitimate thought, hey, I might want to go in a different direction.

But the biggest part of this story is that Cliff is out, and he's not out because he left for a head coaching job. I mean, he might get a head coaching job. And, yeah, nobody saw it coming until some of the reporting from over the weekend, from Diana Rusini and then Ben following that. And yeah, some of the conversation we had during the season, especially after that Minnesota game, you know, and look, I'll admit, I was frustrated at times with some of the Cliff play calling, especially in that game. I've been frustrated at times with Cliff. I think Cliff's very good at what he does, I do. But going back to that Green Bay game, why not try to run the ball more when you can't protect against Green Bay's dominant defensive line that night? But I think that, you know, is the big story. I do know. know what you're saying, Scott, but look, the fact that it happened and we're here trying to figure out why it happened is the story. And let me just repeat this because I do believe this

now more than perhaps I did yesterday that Cliff is gone because of Dan Quinn, more than anybody else including Adam Peters. You know, I think it's because Dan Quinn just believes that Kingsbury's system style isn't what he wants moving forward you know on some level dan quinn making that decision when anybody would look at kingsbury's job in dc objectively and say he's done a really good job you know uh so dan quinn moving on from him carries i think more risk than reward and is in some ways ballsy. I do think that it is in some ways ballsy. I'm not saying that he's going to be right about this. But I do think it was Quinn's decision. And I think at the end of the day, Quinn,

you know, certainly brought him in because he liked him, thought he was difficult to game plan for, and that he'd be a really good fit for the quarterback that they were going to take. And he wasn't wrong about that. But moving on from him after two years, I don't think is a great thing overall. But I also can simultaneously say it's kind of ballsy. And I think for Quinn, he's like, look, if I'm going into my third year on a warm seat, I'm not going to have regrets after next year that I should have done what I felt like I should have done in the moment. I'm in the moment now. I'm going to do it. And I think that Adam Peters supported him on that. And I do think that it was Quinn because he just isn't as comfortable with the system,

with the play calling in some of these games, probably felt like they should have run the ball a little bit more, maybe married up, run and pass a little bit better, whatever. But look, to move on from Cliff, I'll say what I said yesterday again, to move on from Cliff in the eyes of, I bet many around the league is surprising. Cliff did an excellent job here. Year one, top five NFL offense, elite level offensive coordinator in 2024. Year two, this past year, overachieving when you consider the number of key players lost to injuries, and of course, you know, losing his starting quarterback for basically

three-fourths of the season. You know, that dooms basically any team. By the way, I mentioned something yesterday or the day before that I want to update. I mentioned that Washington finished 7th in red zone offense. Actually, that was the number going into the game. Sunday in Philadelphia, they went three for four in the red zone. And Washington's red zone offense finished in 2025, ranked fourth in the NFL.

Fourth, you know, Kingsbury's 2025 offense with, you know, a me. makeshift, you know, group of players out there. Majority of the key playmakers, skill position players, lost for much of the season. He finished fourth in red zone offense, 12th in yards per play, fourth in overall rush offense, and in many of the other top offensive categories, traditional and advanced, top half of the league. Cliff did a nice job this year. He did. He's a good offensive coordinator, and he is, and we'll get into this shortly,

he is an odds-on favorite right now per, you know, my bookie and other spots to be the head coach in a certain place. I'll tell you what that place is here in a moment. But back to Scott's email. So when Scott says Jaden will be on his second offensive coordinator in three seasons, and if, you know, whomever comes in is good replacing Cliff and they have a good season next year, that person maybe is gone and gets a head coaching job in 2027. So Jaden will be on OC number three when we get to 2027. I'll agree with you, Scott. That's not a great situation,

which is why the team, you know, I said I would have preferred an offensive head coach in 2024. You know, I liked the Dan Quinn hire. You know, I was more adamant about those that were saying that Dan Quinn was like option number seven or four or three. That wasn't true at all. But I did like the hire of Dan Quinn, but my preference, if you recall, was an offensive head coach, preferably somebody from the Shanahan ilk. But I don't disagree with you that hiring an offensive coach in 2020,

in 2024 with the second pick in the draft, knowing that you're going to take a quarterback, would have been preferable. But it happens, man. It happens. John Harbaugh, who, by the way, you know, that happened after the show yesterday with Tommy and I. Wow, that was quite the bombshell.

I mean, I think you kind of had a sense that it could happen. But the fact that the parting wasn't mutual, that it was, it's pretty wild when you think about it. You know, Harbaugh after all of that time. I had Bobby Trossett, a friend of mine who covers The Ravens, has a podcast, a YouTube show called The Vault. I had them on radio today. It's actually a good listen. Bobby's always a really good guest.

And, you know, he said, I said, do you think it's similar to the Andy Reed reign in Philadelphia where when it finally ended, people were okay with it? And he said, yeah, that was the sense kind of leading up to it. But in the moment, they were like, can we actually do better? It might be hard to do better than John Harbaugh. Yeah, be careful what you wish for because the grass ain't always greener on the other side. But think about Harbaugh's years with Lamar Jackson. Lamar Jackson's on what, offensive coordinator number four, I think, because Harbaugh's not a defensive head coach, but he was more of a CEO coach. He was a special teams guy coming to Baltimore when Steve Vashati.

him. Jalen Hertz, I think, is on number five O.C. for him in five years, right? As the starter, Sean McDermott and Buffalo as a defensive head coach. Josh Allen's on offensive coordinator three or four in his career. C.J. Stroud with D'Amico Ryan's as a defensive head coach, is already in year three on O.C. number two. So it happens a lot, you know, when there is great offensive success, and the head coach isn't an offensive play-calling head coach. So you're not wrong, but it's also not unique, Scott. Also, remember this about 2024, and I just went back after reading Scott's email to refresh my memory. There weren't a ton of offensive head coaching options.

It was really in 2024, the year of defensive head coaching hires. there was Quinn here, McDonald in Seattle, Rahim Morris in Atlanta, Gerard Mayo in New England, Antonio Pierce, getting hired after being the interim in Vegas. Washington's interviews in 2024 were mostly defensive guys. Quinn, Rahim Morris, McDonald, Aaron Glenn, Anthony Weaver. They interviewed Bobby Sloick. That was basically the only offensive guy other than Ben Johnson, who they did have an initial, you know, Zoom interview with,

but then he turned down the live, you know, in-person interview when they went to Detroit and ended up, you know, interviewing Aaron Glenn. By the way, after watching Glenn in New York this year, that seemed like a bullet dodged. And remember, Rahim Morris said, I want this job, but you have to offer it to me now or I'm going to go on other interviews, and they didn't offer him the job.

Morris is out after two years in Atlanta. So it was just kind of a defensive coach year with the opening being what it was, when it was, here in Washington. All right. A few more things to get to here in the open. So number one is this. Who's going to replace Cliff and who's going to replace Joe Whit Jr.? So let's start with some news on this topic. The news today is that the commanders, according to Adam Schaefter, requested to interview Raiders' defensive coordinator, Patrick Graham.

So that's the first name for either one of these two openings that we've heard as of the recording of this podcast. Patrick Graham has been requested to interview for the Washington opening. Remember, Pete Carroll fired, so that whole staff now has the opportunity to move on. Graham, for those of you who don't know, longtime coach, long-time defensive coordinator in the league. A defensive coordinator now for seven straight seasons in the league with three different teams. The last four years in Vegas with the Raiders as their D.C. Before that, you probably remember him more when he was the Giants defensive coordinator for two years,

2020 and 2021. And then he was with Miami as Miami's defense. coordinator in 2019. He spent his first seven years in the NFL coaching under Bill Belichick in New England. He was a linebacker's coach and a D-Line coach with the Patriots. The last three years in Vegas, just as an FYI, his defenses per DVOA have ranked eighth in 23, 18th in 2024, and 14th this past season.

Look, he's been in a S-show organization. And they haven't had much. They've had Max Crosby, had Jeremy Chin this year. But 8th, 18th, and 14th per DVOA for a team that's been pretty bad for three straight years

is pretty good. He's very bright by all accounts, went to Yale, played football, at Yale, and he's been a solid defensive coordinator. I think the one takeaway on interviewing Graham, or requesting an interview with Graham, is that

it's an indication that Quinn he's not going to mess around this time with someone who doesn't come with a ton of experience. Joe Wit Jr. was a first-time defensive coordinator. If Quinn decides that he's going to hire somebody, because I guess

there's still a chance, I don't think it'll happen, but there's still a chance Quinn could say, I'm going to go back to being not only the head coach, but the defensive coordinator and play caller. By the way, I think that's slim and none. I'll ask our guest, Tom Shad, if he thinks that's a possibility. But, you know, somebody like Graham is not a first-timer. He's the opposite of that. And I bet that's where Quinn would turn. Oh, there are no ties, by the way, with Patrick Graham and Dan Quinn that I can find in terms of having coached in the same place at the same time.

You know, the guys that I've mentioned since the move back in November away from Joe Whit Jr., I think are guys still to keep an eye on, especially given that, you know, we were talking about the possibility that Rahim Morris could lose his job in Atlanta, and he did. You know, Rahim Morris coached with Dan Quinn in Atlanta as Dan Quinn's defensive coordinator, so did Jeff Ulbric, meaning he coached with Rahim Morris. Dan Quinn in Atlanta. Jeff Ulbrook was the defensive coordinator this year in Atlanta.

And then Al Harris, who's in Chicago. By the way, Rahim Morris, if Chris Shula, the defensive coordinator with the Rams, gets a head coaching job, my guess is Rahim Morris would go back to L.A. where he won a Super Bowl as the defensive coordinator and coached with Sean McVeigh before coming here. I've been told that Rahim Morris reveres Dan Quinn, loves Dan Quinn. But I think Rahim Morris loved being on that Ram staff living in L.A. And let's face it, it's probably a better situation, although the quarterback is much older. The quarterback's much younger here.

A guy like Graham, you know, not part of that Quinn family, a guy like Jonathan Gannon being out there, not part of the Quinn group. You know, Jim Schwartz, he may end up getting a head coaching job, who knows, or being retained in Cleveland if they were to hire an offensive guy, which I'll get to here in a moment in terms of who the favorite is for the Cleveland opening. Offensive coordinator, all right, here's, I know I went through some names yesterday, but here's the list, all right, that I've come up with for now, all right? you start with your own guys you know Anthony Lynn is on the staff David Blow is on the staff we've talked a lot about David Blow when they hired him I think everybody in media and beyond was told this dude is the next thing he's going to be an OC quickly he's going to be an eventual head coach He's in their building right now.

He has a good relationship with Jaden Daniels. And it wouldn't surprise me that the next OC is somebody that's got a history with Jaden Daniels. It's brief, but it's a history. David Blow coached in Detroit with Ben Johnson. David Blow's already been requested to be interviewed for the OC availability in Detroit. They fired Johnny Morton. Remember, Dan Campbell took over play-calling responsibilities, starting with the Washington game, which was a joke.

Not a bad game to start off calling plays. As Souter said, anybody could have called plays in that game and moved the football and scored points against our defense. But, you know, in the building, and Anthony Lynn, a Brian Johnson's been an O.C. before in Philadelphia and a David Blow. You know, if you told me right now, they hired a guy. from inside the building, I would tell you it was David Blow. No disrespect to Anthony Lynn, who's been a head coach in the league, or Brian Johnson. But it might be one of those situations where they didn't want him to leave the building. You know, Adam Peters and everybody was so impressed.

It's like, we can't lose this guy. This guy is a star. You know, I always go back to Sean McVeigh and Cooley when he was a tight ends coach saying he's going to be a head coach. They should make him the head coach and move on from Jay Gruden. You guys remember when Cooley said that to me and I was like, who? What? What are you talking about? And he said, I'll never forget it.

He said the first time Sean McVeigh goes on an interview, even if it's for an offensive coordinator job, he's going to get hired as the head coach. And sure enough, his first interview, head coach at 30 whatever years old, he was. in that moment. So that's in the building. Okay, that's in the building. And Blow is going to be sought after and is being sought after. So keep that in mind as it relates to him outside of the building. You know, the easy one would be if Mike McDaniel became available. As of now, he's not available. But with John Harbaugh out there, what if Harbaugh got the Miami job? Then to me, it's a no-brainer. You go get Mike McDaniel.

and you make him the offensive coordinator. Mike McDaniel and Quinn worked together. Mike McDaniel was with Kyle in Atlanta when Dan Quinn was the head coach. Bobby Sloick, you know, they interviewed him for the head coaching job. Sloick is back. You know, he's part of the Shanahan tree. He was, you know, with Peters in San Francisco. That's a possibility.

You know, the Shanahan tree is where I'm going right now, starting with Mike McDaniel. You know, Bobby Slowick. I mentioned yesterday a guy like Mike LaFleur. He is Sean McVeigh's current offensive coordinator. Some think he could get a head coaching job this cycle. He was with Quinn and Kyle in Atlanta. He doesn't call plays, which is why perhaps he might jump to a job in which he could get OC, assistant head coach, title, and call plays. Zach Robinson in Atlanta.

You know, I watched Zach Robinson a bunch because he was coaching You Know Who last year and even this year, Kirk Cousins. And, you know, he is part of the McVe, you know, Shanahan, everybody, you know, off of the Mike tree, but was with Sean in L.A. And I'll tell you what, like if they really want an under-center Shanahan guy, that's not him. they were in the pistol pretty much all year and this year, although he went much more under center when Kirk replaced Pennix Jr. this year.

Last year, they were in the pistol because in part, Kirk was coming off the Achilles injury and they thought it would be easier for him. Clay Kubiak, who's in San Francisco right now. Clint Kubiak, who's in Seattle, is going to get a head coaching job, it would appear. Man, it's funny about Clint Kubiak when he was in Minnesota coaching. Kirk. I never viewed him as a head coaching guy. He is so reserved, so laid back, just doesn't appear to be a front guy, a head coach. But who knows? I saw Daryl Bevel's name mentioned a bunch. Now, that's not a Shanahan guy. That's a Seattle Quinn guy. Remember Daryl Bevel was the Russell

Wilson, Zone Reed, running quarterback, OC for Seattle, when Pete Carroll was the head coach and Dan Quinn was the defensive coordinator and they were great. He's in Miami right now with Mike McDaniel. Beville is. So I saw that name thrown around a lot. I just, you know, look, he's been with McDaniel, so he may be now part of the Shanahan style. But when he was with Quinn, they watched what RG3 was doing with Kyle and Mike here and they're like, we're going to do that. And Russell Wilson became

a zone read, you know, big time running quarterback. Who else did? I mentioned yesterday, anybody from the Jacksonville staff, Liam Cohen staff, Grant Udinski who was with Kevin O'Connell by the way in Minnesota, he's being talked about as a potential

head coach. I mentioned Spencer Whipple because when I went through that staff, Aldrin's on that staff, too. He was in Seattle. Spencer Whipple, whose father is Mark Whipple, was a longtime college coach at places like UMass. He's been in the NFL. I've had him on the show because he's such a good guest,

such a great guy talking about quarterbacks and draft stuff. Apparently Spencer, his son, is kind of a rising star. You know, Todd Munkin, Kevin Stefansky, of course Kevin Stefansky, you know, off of the Shanahan tree. I think Stefansky is going to get a head coaching job. Munkin now is available. Interesting. Brian Dable, I've seen his name out there a ton.

Brian Dable is hiring Cliff Kingsbury. I mean, that's not the under center. That's not the run first. That's not protect the quarterback. I don't want my quarterback to run a lot. And I'm not saying that that's what really Dan Quinn is looking for. I think Dan Quinn probably would prefer, you know, a bit more. of feeling the game

when you're running the ball well like they were in Minnesota like feeling the game a little bit more in Green Bay like we can't protect you know protecting better against Minnesota you know and Brian Flores' scheme

I think that's ultimately Quinn just wasn't comfortable and so if he wants to go with something that he's had a difficult time defending by the way but a lot of those guys were with him in Atlanta and Kyle was his offensive coordinator

so he certainly knows what the Shanahan scheme looks like up close and personal. He was the head coach of Kyle Shanahan's offense that went to a Super Bowl. You know, those are a lot of the names. Brian Daibel would not be that kind of a fit. So, yeah, if it's off the group they have now, you know, it would probably be a David Blow. If it's outside the building, who the hell knows? but it would probably come from the list of names that I just gave you.

But I'm going to give you one more name. And let me preface this by saying this is not something that I've heard. It's not even something that I think will happen. But I was thinking about the possibility that the higher is going to be somebody that has ties to Jaden Daniels. and the only people that I've mentioned so far that have ties to Jaden Daniels are people on the staff currently. All of the names of potential outside hires, I can't find any ties with Jaden Daniels or anybody that would be obvious as an outside hire, you know, in the NFL anyway, with Jaden Daniels ties. He's only been in the league for two years. And the ties that he has are with,

a guy like Anthony Lynn, Brian Johnson, and David Blow. And again, let me reiterate, if they end up making a hire from their current staff, it's going to be Blow, I would guess, just because he's been talked about as being so dynamic, so smart, so much of a future kind of superstar coordinator and head coach. And he's being sought after from outside the organization, including. by his former team, Detroit. But there's this one name that I found in just kind of looking at people with Jaden Daniels ties that I thought was interesting.

This person's name is Mike Denbrock. Mike Denbrock is currently the offensive coordinator at Notre Dame. He has been for the last two seasons. But prior to that, he was the offensive coordinator at L.S. shoe. For Jaden Daniels, two seasons in Baton Rouge, 2022, and the 2023 season in which Jaden Daniels won the Heisman Trophy. His offensive coordinator was Mike Denbrock. Shortly before the draft in 2024, Jaden wrote a story for the Players Tribune, titled A Few Words For My People Who Got Me Here. And there's a paragraph that speaks to the

relationship that he had with Mike Denbrock. He writes, I went into the transfer portal and my phone blew up. I'm getting calls from coaches everywhere. But there was something about Coach Kelly, Brian Kelly. I was really just looking for a new home, but I also wanted to go to a bigger program to be on a bigger stage. And I remember when we first met, he said, man, I really want you to be here. But it wasn't just him either. The offensive coordinator at the time that now at Notre Dame, Mike Denbrock, I was on a Zoom call with him, and he was like, man, I just want to help you get to where you want to go. My parents taught me a lot about recognizing who's genuine and who's not, who's trying to bluff me. And I don't know, everything just felt

super authentic. He could have pitched me like, I'll make you a first round pick, or I'll make you a Heisman trophy winner. But he was just like, I just want to help. help you achieve your goals in your life. He had full belief in me. That was from Jaden Daniels about his offensive coordinator at LSU in 2022 and 23. Just throwing it out there, Mike Denbrock, because he's familiar with Jaden Daniels. And nobody right now of that list outside of the organization that I can find has ties to

Jaden Daniels. And no, I don't think Herm Edwards is going to come back and be an offensive coordinator in the NFL. One last thing before we get to Tom Shad. So after yesterday, there are now seven NFL jobs open. Arizona, Baltimore, Vegas, Giants, Falcons, Browns, and Titans. I'm going to give you the odds at my bookie for the next head coach in those places because I think there's a surprise here. Clint Kubiak is the favorite to be the next head coach in Arizona. Clint Kubiak is the current offensive coordinator in Seattle. Jesse Minter, the defensive coordinator in L.A. with Jim Harbaugh, John Harbaugh's brother, is the favorite to be the next head coach in Baltimore. By the way, the second favorite in Baltimore is Cliff Kingsbury. Jesse

Minters the favorite to be the Ravens coach, Cliff Kingsbury, is the second choice to be the head coach. People view Cliff Kingsbury as like a perfect fit with Lamar Jackson. Brian Flores, man, Brian Flores, I'd love him to be my defensive coordinator. He is the big-time favorite to be the next head coach in Vegas. By the way, Kingsbury is the fifth favorite to be the head coach in Vegas. The favorite to be the Giants head coach now, and a heavy favorite, is John Harbaugh. The next Atlanta coach, Kevin Stefansky, is a big favorite over Clint Kubiak and Mike LaFleur. And then in Tennessee, Matt Nagy is the favorite.

More on him in a moment. And the favorite to be the new head coach in Cleveland, Cliff Kingsbury, a slight favorite over John Harbaugh. I can't imagine Harbaugh would go. Baltimore to Cleveland. But Cliff Kingsbury, the current betting odds favorite to be the new head coach in Cleveland. Matt Nagy is currently in Kansas City. If Matt and Aggie got a head coaching job, let's just say with the Tennessee Titans, you know who'd be looking for an offensive coordinator? The Kansas City Chiefs. You know who their quarterback is, Patrick Mahomes. you know, who's super close with Patrick Mahomes, Cliff Kingsbury.

If Kingsbury didn't get a head coaching job and Matt Nagy leaves Kansas City, how about Kingsbury back to Kansas City to coach with Andy Reed and to coach Mahomes? Ben Standing played this out, by the way, on Twitter last night. But the other piece of that would be Marcus Mariotta with Cliff to Kansas City, because Mahomes is probably not going to be ready to start the 2026 season. So there's going to be a lot of moving pieces, and I want Marcus Marietta to be the backup quarterback here next year, but Marcus Marriota loves Cliff Kingsbury, so does Jaden.

And Marcus Marriota probably has never been better as a quarterback than he's been here in Washington in Kingsbury's scheme. So if Kingsbury ends up going anywhere to be a head coach, think about Marcus Mariotto going with Cliff. If Kingsbury ended up in Kansas City because Matt Nagy left, that would be an obvious fit because Mariotto would be the starting quarterback until Mahomes comes back. You know, he'd be the bridge to Mahomes. Also, I think I mentioned this already if I didn't. But, yeah, Rahim Morris to the Rams. Chula leaves. That would take him off the board here. I think he'd prefer the Rams over here, but I don't know for sure. Dan Quinn, you know, for whatever you think he is, is a head coach. There's a lot of belief and there's a lot of respect and there are a lot of people that would love to be back on his staff if they're not a head coach in other places. Cliff might end up being the head coach in Cleveland. And if he is with Shadur and Dylan Gabriel,

Marcus Marriota goes with him, don't you think? And he ends up starting in Cleveland next year with that defense. Actually, with that defense? And Kingsbury and Marietta, they'll win more games than they won this year. That's for sure. All right. What else do I have?

That's it. Let's get to Tom Shad. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, Chime is changing the way people. bank. It's fee-free and smarter banking built for most of us, not the 1%. Chime's not just another banking app. Chime Unlocked smarter banking for everyday people with products like MyPay, giving you access to up to $500 of your paycheck anytime and getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Some old banks still don't do this. Forget overdraft fees, forget minimum

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mention my name and come out and take good care of you. Joining me right now is Tom Shad. Tom Shad's covering the team for the Washington Post. Tom has only been on the beat for a while, a few months now.

He went to A.U. He worked for the Post briefly. He worked for the Washington Times. For a little while, went to Memphis and now is back in town covering the team. And we'll get to the craziness of the last 24 to 48 hours, but I'll start with, you know, how's it going so far? You didn't get the best of seasons to start back with the post, but how's it gone so far

for you? But it's been a busy year. It hasn't gone, I think, like I and a lot of people anticipated, but it's been interesting. I mean, there's never a dull moment with this team, and that's held true this year, and obviously a lot of questions moving forward that will make the offseason, I think, even more interesting in a lot of ways than the season. Let's start with the season, and then we'll get to what's next. For somebody that didn't see the season and only saw 5 and 12 and asked you, so what happened, how would you answer that? so I think you kind of look at it in terms of like a I don't want to say like blame pie but there are lots of different factors involved right I think a large chunk of it you have to say was the injuries which you know we heard players get a little more open in terms of talking about as the season went on and kind of the reality set in you know they never want to use it as like an excuse for what happened but um my colleague chan reed and i wrote a story kind of at the end of the season where we essentially conducted exit

interviews with players and Tyler Ott told us like when you lose impact players you lose impact plays and and that's kind of really how I would sum up they lost a combined I think it was 158 games of production between the 32 guys who were injured this year which is just you know crazy so I think I would start there and then you know from there I think there are a couple other areas I mean one it's just the defense um you know the inconsistency on defense and there were different issues kind of at different points in the season. There were times where they were pressing. There were times where they were just

undisciplined. Some of that goes back to injuries as well, but I think just really poor defensive play all around and then offensively just a lack of execution in critical moments. I think if you look back at the season, you can point to

a handful of games and a handful of specific plays where, you know, if Evo Samuel comes down with a catch or, you know, they hang out of the ball, they don't throw pick, you know, things change. So it's a very long, complicated way of answering your question, but I guess I would say it's injuries as probably the crux of it and then a couple other factors in there as well. Yeah, I mean, your top two, or I think anybody that watch this thing has to start with your number one. I mean, when you don't have your best players playing for you,

and if you just want to start at the quarterback position, I've said this many times, Tom, But if you aren't going to have your starting quarterback for essentially 13 games, he only played in four start to finish, only played in three start to finish healthy, 98% of teams are doomed in that scenario to start with. But then you get to everything else that was lost, and it's impossible to overcome. And then to your point, like I've talked a lot about as bad as the injuries were, even if they hadn't lost the players they lost on defense, I think in retrospect, I believe the defense was still going to be pretty bad. Like if Dietrich Wise and Dorrance Armstrong and Marciaun Latimore and Trey Amos and Will Harris and the list goes on and on, if they were all relatively healthy for 17,

I still don't think this defense was going to be very good. I tend to agree with you, and I think we saw that honestly, even early in the season, like even, you know, against a team like Green Bay, which don't get me wrong, is a solid offensive team. It's not necessarily a juggernaut or it hasn't proven to be a duggernaut, and they still struggled there. So, yeah, I tend to agree with you. I think the injuries make things worse, particularly the injuries along the defensive line, but I think the issues that the plague them would have been there no matter what. Yeah, I think I went back and looked at this the other day. You know that Gino Smith's best game of the season,

QBR-wise was against Washington. His best passer rating of the season was against Washington. I know that was a lopsided game, 41 to 24, but it was actually like 17 to 10 late in the first half, you know, and the Raiders were moving the football pretty much up and down the field. They just ultimately, you know, couldn't, you know, score enough or couldn't keep pace with Washington's scoring. So I agree with you.

I think we saw signs of it even before. all of the injuries hit defensively. All right, let's get to the last couple of days. Clearly, Joe Witt Jr., being dismissed, was not a surprise. But where on the surprise, you know, level of, you know, one, not surprised at all, 10 super shocked were you when it first became clear that Kingsbury might lose his job? I guess I would say about a six or a seven. I mean, I think in like a binary sense, I was surprised.

I know that there were some reports out there and some scuttlebutt. When you look back at it, you can clearly, or at least I can clearly remember some moments where Dan Quinn, you know, made comments about having wished that they had stuck with the run or wanting to do things differently, wanting to control the ball a little bit more. All that stuff kind of stands out in retrospect, but it still is a pretty significant move on his part to kind of blow up. the offense, given the success that it had in 2024, and then all the injuries that it had in 2025. And even with so many of those injuries, there were still moments where the offense was being pretty efficient, you know, even with Marcus Marriota and Josh Johnson at quarterback. So from a philosophical standpoint, I think it makes sense, and it makes sense that Dan Quinn would want something a little bit different on that side of the ball, but it still

counted, I think for me as a surprise just because of the uxiness of it and the amount of turmoil that it creates, or not, maybe turmoil is not the right word, but having to replace both coordinators and essentially, you know, implement a new, what at least I expect will be a new different offensive scheme on top of the changing on the defense, the changes to personnel. The fact that Dan Quinn would go for all of that, I think, is a little bit surprisingly. So, I mean, you kind of talked about maybe looking for something different, but spell it out. Why do you think this happened? So my kind of working theory is that, you know, it's just about play style. And I think it's as much as anything about a desire to run the

ball. You know, there were moments in kind of goal to go situations where plus Kingsbury would dial up passes and just kind of, as a general rule, he, he, he, liked doing that. He liked kind of having short passes and playing fast, and he viewed kind of short passes in a lot of ways like runs. There were also moments in games where the defense was getting

crushed or having a hard, and the offense would have a three-and-out, the defense would go right back on the field, and it made some of these games that were, you know, maybe in the 17-10 range, like, very quickly two-score, three-score games, and kind of got out of hand. So my

hunch is that that's what Dan Quinn is looking to change, you know, something that's a little bit slower pace. He always talks about complimentary football. I think time of possession and ball control is definitely part of that. And then it's no secret that the strength, at least the offense, was the offense's line, one of the strengths. And, you know, we saw a lot of games where Chris Rodriguez would average eight yards of carry or whatever, and they would drift away from the run.

And so I think that's kind of at the heart of the decision is just, you know, maybe some more balance, maybe a different philosophy in terms of the speed, and then ultimately just running the ball and maybe being a little bit more, a little bit more smash-mouthed, you know, for all the reasons that I mentioned, and then also just to take a little bit of the pressure off Jane Daniels. Obviously, he's part of everything they want to do, and I think that's probably a factor too. So I've got a bit of a working theory on this as well, and it goes like this. While it may have been on his mind prior to the Minnesota game,

It was the Minnesota game that legitimized the possibility that he would move on from Cliff. If you recall, he was annoyed. Quinn was annoyed after that game with everything, because everything was a disaster in that game. But he was annoyed with not running the football. You know, you sort of referenced it. And that sequence on the opening drive where they threw three straight times after they ran the ball with Rodriguez at eight yards of carry down to the two-yard line. And then, by the way, three or four days later, in the coordinator press conference, Cliff Kingsbury pretty much fessed up and said he called a terrible game and took responsibility for it.

What do you make of that, that the Minnesota game was kind of the moment where Dan Quinn decided, yeah, this isn't going to work out with Cliff? It's hard for me to say one way or the other. I'm not inside DQ's mind on that. It could have been something that was, you know, in the back of his mind before that or something that, you know, didn't really kind of hit him until later. To me, the Minnesota game was just kind of a continuation of other instances. You know, one, we were a story about it after the Kansas City game

where, you know, that was a really close game in the first half, and then the commanders go down and just really get away from the run there in the second half. So, yeah, I don't know for sure that that was a turning point. I think it was probably just an accumulation of things. I mean, one thing about that sequence, though, that you brought up, that was like the quintessential time where a year ago you would see Jane Daniels on a design run. Sure. And at that point, I think it's clear now that they, you know, were committed to not calling those design runs.

And so maybe that, you know, in that way had an impact on Dan Quinn, that, you know, maybe they wanted to get away from some of the stuff that they were doing in 2024 in terms of using Jaden as a designed run kind of guy in addition to the brilliant scrambler that he is. And so, yeah, maybe in that way it played a role, but it's hard to say that that was the specific turnpoint. All right. Let's take a break, and then we will, with Tom, get to what's next? Who are the next offensive and defensive coordinators in Washington? We'll do that after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, I'm always happy when Harries is on the list of sponsors for this show.

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What comes next? It's going to be fascinating. You know, I think a lot of us were kind of trying to read the T-Elees on the defensive side of the ball for a while now and looking for guys who are kind of of the Dan Quinn coaching tree or ilk or similar philosophy. On the offensive side of the ball, it's kind of, of a clean, clean slate. You know, I think whoever they hire is going to have a lot of freedom, you know,

within the general centers of what I was talking about in terms of ball control and philosophical stuff. I mean, I think they're going to have a lot of freedom to run what they want to run. You know, I know the logical thing in this area is something kind of in the Shanahan tree and those guys have had a lot of success. I mean, the thing that's success to me is that both Quinn and Peters have a lot of ties to that group, right? I think there's a guy like Michael Flore and Los Angeles

who had some experience with Quinn and Atlanta, had some experience in San Francisco and Adam Peters was there. To me, that's like a very logical candidate. And then obviously some of the guys who just had head coaching jobs, you know, or it didn't work out for him, Kevin Stefanski or Brian Davel, you know, struggled as head coaches, but it's hard to argue with their, you know, resumes as an offensive coordinator. So I think, I don't know if that's kind of a meandering way to answer your question.

I think it would probably, if I had to place a bet, I would say somebody from kind of that Shanahan style or old, who maybe had some sort of familiarity with Dan Quinn, but, you know, again, would have some freedom and things could change, I think, depending on how the rest of the coaching landscape shifts here. How do you view Dan Quinn's seat in 2026? making this change at offensive coordinator versus not making a change at offensive coordinator. That's a really interesting question. I don't know that it necessarily raises the stakes because I think this was already going to be a pivotal year for him.

And I think, you know, a lot of it is going to hinge on how the defense works because for as much as much of the attention as was on, you know, Joe Witt. Like Dan Quinn cut his teeth on that side of the ball. And so I think that's like the area where they really need to show improvement next year to kind of keep this thing on an upward trajectory. Again, I think changing offensive coordinator is risky. Maybe adds like a slightly higher degree of risk. But I don't know that for me it significantly makes his seat any warmer.

I think, you know, given kind of the performance this. year, and just the dramatic shifts from 24 to 25, I think the stakes for 26 were already pretty high. Where do you think Kingsbury lands? No idea. And I hesitate to even, like, venture a guess, because, you know, as we saw the other day, you know, we think that we have a good sense of who's going to stay or go, and then Harbaugh gets canned in Baltimore, and suddenly everything shifts. It depends on what some of these teams with vacancies do in terms of hiring or not hiring some of the young,

up-and-coming offensive types. I think historically we've seen some of those guys like a Liam Cohen or a guy who's going to be a hot name this year, Clint Kubiak. If teams bets on those guys, I think you could see Cliff probably just taking another offensive coordinator wall somewhere with like a mobile quarterback, you know, that would fit his system. But it's really impossible to say this early in the process just because there are so many moving pieces that I think will dictate where he ultimately lands.

Do you think there's a good chance that Kingsbury moving on being dismissed here means that Marcus Marriota won't be back and that he'll follow Kingsbury wherever he goes? Not necessarily, I'd say. I mean, I know Marcus loved playing in this offense, and it fit him very well, but he's also a really good support system for Jaden Daniels, you know, and they get along pretty well. And so I could see him returning just, you know, again, kind of as like a continued mentor figure for Jaden Daniels, who, you know, when Jaden was in high school or early college, said that Marcus, in a newspaper article, said that Marcus was his favorite article. quarterback, one of the guys to be idolized. So, you know, I think that relationship is important, and if

the team is able to retain David Blow, you know, I could see Marks Marriota coming back. I think from the team standpoint, you'd certainly have interest in bringing Marks back after how he fared as a fill-in this year. But I don't necessarily think he'll automatically follow Cliff. That said, that's

to contradict everything I've just said. It would not be surprising if he, you know, whatever Cliff now ultimately lands either. So what do they do? with the defensive coordinator position. And I'll start before you give me names with this. What are the chances that Dan Quinn decides I'm going to take it over like I did midseason or before the Madrid game from Joe Witt, Jr., and I'm going to be the coordinator

and play caller. I'll bring somebody in to be the D.C., but I'm going to be the play caller. What do you think the chances of that are? and then that's a better, you know, lead in to whether or not you think it's going to be a full-fledged DC or somebody to just support the head coach. Yeah, I guess I'd say I think it's unlikely that he calls plays again next year. You know, it was interesting as we asked him about it at news conferences kind of as the year went on. Yeah.

He started out talking about how much he, you know, enjoyed it and how great it was. And then a couple weeks in he started talking about the challenges in terms of managing his own time. You know, it's a lot of extra meetings, putting together a game plan, figuring out what's called, what situations. It's a lot on top of all the other responsibilities that he had as a head coach. And part of the thing when he was hired here was, you know, after getting fired in Atlanta, he looked back and said, you know, I want to be more of a CEO type of figure. And so I think in an ideal world, that would be the outcome. I think he would hire, you know, somebody who's going to call the defensive plays, somebody that he trusts, still have influence. put in the game plan but not have, you know, all of the responsibility for that side of the

ball on his shoulders. So I get that I think is the most likely outcome. Now that said, if something changes in terms of the candidate pool or, you know, what they're looking for and they decide to go super young or something and he feels like he needs to call the plays. I mean, he's obviously shown over the course of his career that he can do that. I just don't think that's the most likely outcome. So what is the most likely outcome? So I'm really intrigued with this hire if he goes with somebody who's very much of his tree or somebody new with new ideas. And he was asked about that exact philosophical thing on Monday at the press conference and said, you know, things change and you have to be able to adapt.

And I think there's a tendency for us and the media and everybody when you're trying to look for potential fits to just look at who they, you know, worked with in the past. and pick off that list. But I think if anybody were to go outside of their immediate circle, Dan Quinn would be one of those guys. You know, I think he has kind of an appreciation for different schools of thought, and so to hire somebody who has a different kind of idea and they, you know, sit down, hashed out and figure out how they want to proceed, it wouldn't totally shock me.

Now, that said, I think, you know, the guys who have been mentioned around here from your Rahine Morris's to your Jeff O'Brick's, you know, also will be really strong candidates, depending, particularly with Raheem Morris, how his head coaching opportunities shakeout. Yeah, Patrick Graham, just, you know, a little while ago, Adam Schaefter reported that Washington has reached out to interview Patrick Graham, who was on Pete Carroll's staff in Vegas this year. And in just sort of going through the history, there's not, you know, I don't think, a tie to Dan Quinn there. Do you have any thoughts on Patrick Graham,

just initial thoughts? Yeah, no, I mean, incredibly smart guy and respected guy. It's been hard to evaluate just with how things have gone in Vegas. Sure. You know, for the past couple years, but obviously he's been retained by a couple of new coaching staff. I don't think Carol was the first, the first guy to keep him around. that's these volumes, right? And that's a good example of somebody who might have a slightly different philosophy. But clearly, having played them this year, Dan Quinn might

have seen something on film and said, oh, hey, this is interesting, and see that as a guy who you could sit down and pick his brain. They could come up with a slightly modified system, but something that could improve on the sorts of things that Quinn has been over the course of his career. Last one, and I appreciate the time. Do you sense that that, you know, some of the reporting here over the last several days that there is, you know, there was a disconnect between the front office in Kingsbury or perhaps just, you know, a little bit more meddling from the front office into football matters. Do you sense that's an issue or not?

I don't know if it is an issue. I don't think that it is the main issue. I guess it's the way that I would put it. I think that in terms of the Kingsbury stuff, for example, there was a report in the athletic about Kingsbury having beef basically with Adam Peters. I think the philosophical differences were more so with Dan Quinn on that. Now, whether there was some degree of meddling or conversations about playing guys, not playing guys, you know, I don't know.

And I don't know how significant of an issue that was, but at least, with regards to Kingsbury, I don't think it was the main issue. But, you know, that sort of report that you reference, to me, one of my big takeaways is it signifies the pressure of this upcoming year, right? Like when you have stuff like that come out, it's typically not after a 12-and-5 year where everything's hunky-dory, you know, it's more at a time where people realize that they need to produce something. No doubt.

You get turned around, and that's where they are at this point. doubt. I mean, that kind of stuff usually isn't at the center of a post-12-and-5 regular season. Tom, thanks so much. You're doing a great job. Really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks, I appreciate that. Tom Shad, everybody from the Washington Post. At Tom underscore Shad on Twitter. Shad is spelled S-C-H-A-D. Stanford, Steve, next to preview the two college football playoff semifinal games. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

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in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That's Code Sheehan to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. Prize picks, it's good to be right. Semi-final game number one tomorrow night at the Fiesta Bowl, Miami and Ole Miss, 7.30 kick for that one, and then on Friday night in Atlanta at the Peach Bowl, semi-final game number two, top-seeded Indiana against Big Ten foe in a rematch, Oregon. Here to talk about what's already transpired and what will come over the next two nights is my friend Stanford, Steve from ESPN, of course, part of Scott's Sports Center, but a big part of college game day as well.

He'll be present as part of the college game day crew for both of the games. to both of the games. Let's just talk about the games that have already been played. We've had eight of them so far. A, what was your favorite game? B, what do you think we learned from the first two rounds more than anything else? I was at Alabama, Oklahoma, which was tremendous. The ability to come back. I mean, Kevin, that building was as live as you can be with this pre-light show. thing and everybody getting juiced up and Bama going down, 17-0 and coming all the way back,

I thought it was incredible in that environment, no one to what they had been up again, knowing how good Venables and that defensive have been. But the next morning, we flew overnight, and the next morning we were in Cowell Station and to people have their thoughts about great games and what

they like and what they don't like, but that game had everything. The physicality of A&M and Miami not budging either of them, either way, both sticking to their guns. I didn't love the game plan from A&M offensively, not moving the quarterback around. But that game, that environment, knowing what those people were up against and then seeing Miami come in, having been at that game, I towards to favor that, even though the Sugar Bowl was absolutely incredible. And that's where we have Miami playing Ole Miss out of those two games.

And then as far as what have we learned, I think that the buy week or the buy in the bracket is a little bit overblown. Indiana, obviously, the only team that has won in the last two years. But when you go back and look at the numbers, two of those teams were double-digit dogs. You know, last year with Arizona State and Boise. Georgia didn't have their quarterback last year. I thought they were in a brutal situation against a really good Notre Dame team that ended up going to the final. You know, you look at this year, you know, Indiana comes out, you know, looks a little rusty that first series, but they're Indiana, man. They play mistake-free football, and that's part of the deal.

And then, you know, what we have the day before, you know, Ohio State, I thought Miami just dictated. You know, I thought Ohio State got away from the ground game when they finally got success. but the way that Miami has perfected in shrinking games, I think it's been really, really evident and a thing that really works. Like, you know, I'm sure you're in stock NFL playoff. That formula has worked forever in playoff football, no matter what level it is.

And then I got a chance to, you know, fly and travel with Coach Saban and ask him about what's the deal. And he swears the bi-week teams practice too much. and it's a very fine line, you know, with the way these things are. And, you know, kids, you know, jumping in the portal January 2nd, but keeping their attention span and not practicing too much. And, you know, he tended to think the more success he had was at the end of his career and going to these glorified walkthroughs where you're doing everything on the board

and in the film room and then you're basically just walking through everything and saving the kids' bodies, which I think has come to fruition. Because when you look at who's left, they're as physical as there is. but they're playing their best ball of the year in Oregon, Miami, Indiana, and Ole Miss. Yeah, I think your point about the, and for those that aren't following it, the, you know, four quarterfinal games are played at both sites, not home venues like the first round. And out of the eight quarterfinal games in the two years of the 12-team playoff,

we've had seven lower-seated teams beat higher-seated teams. teams. Only Indiana has, as a higher-seeded team, won a quarter final game. But to your point, last year, we didn't have a seating based on strength. We had automatic seating with conference champions, Arizona State and Boise State. They were big underdogs. And you already pointed out Georgia's injuries against Notre Dame. And Ohio State, I think a lot of us thought Ohio State was better than Oregon in that other game. And then, you know, this year, you know, we just, we had some great games. Look, you mentioned the A&M Miami game. I want to point out that very early in the season when you were on with me, and you convinced to me, and I rode this horse for like

four or five weeks, you said you thought Miami might be the best team in the country, that up front in the trenches, both sides of the ball, that they were just a grown man team. And I was like, you know what, they'll have an experienced quarterback who can sling it. Whatever you say about Carson Beck and whatever the intangible, you know, lacking thereof is with him, he can spin it. Like, he can make every throw. If you protect him and everything's good around him, it works. So I was on Miami and then they lost a Louisville with him throwing four picks and they lost SMU and overtime with him throwing that pick.

But that game against A&M, it's not for everybody 10 to 3, but I thought that was start to finish one of the most intense, physically hard-hitting games. You mentioned the A&MOC. I was screaming the whole game, just give the ball to Fletcher between the tackles because it worked early and they got away from it. And then they got to it in the final drive of the game. But that's one of the best 10 to 3 games I've ever watched.

It was so intense. And then by the way, so was Miami's win over Ohio State. That game was a grown man. game in the trenches too. I loved it. Both of those games. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the biggest factor is Miami dictated. When you look and dissect these games, I watched the Cotton Bowl back. I mean, God, five times now, Ohio State didn't have many chances. No. And, you know, that's because of what Miami did. And people are talking all year about, you know, and that's why you really don't know until these teams get here. You know, we heard historical defense. And I'm

thinking about all the defenses we've seen in Ohio State, the talent they put in the NFL. And my whole thing all year with Ohio State was, I didn't see the NFL difference makers up front on the defensive line. And then this Arvel Reese comes into the mix

and he's a freak show. He's probably going to be a top 10 pick, maybe top five. But Miami walked in and it manhandled them. They did whatever they wanted. And I thought Dawson learned a lot from that A&M game seven, because he He learned to truck.

It's really hard to do, man. When you're on the road, I mean, there's $110,000. A&M's as good of a fan in the home stadium as there is. And you're, this is a one is done for you, man. And he found, he found his guys. And they leaned on him. And then Malachi, Tony fumbles, and Fletcher goes over to him and says, don't worry about this. I got this.

Give me the football. And when I look at Beck, I'm with you. Uh, you know, he's shown that he can do it. But look at this, he's thrown for 241 yards in two games combined, two touchdowns. One of them was the flip to Tony that ended up winning the A&M. Right, yeah. He has one play, one play, one pass play over 20 yards, and they've looked dominant. You know, so Mario has a team that he absolutely loves.

He's this big bravado guy in the former offensive lineman. He loves the trenches. He loves it because he knows that goes on the road and wins games like it did at A&M and it wins big games like it did against Ohio State. So, yeah, the physicality that Miami has brought to, I look at that as being the biggest challenge for Ole Miss in this Biesta Bowl. They have to find a way to compound that because with Ole Miss, you know, people want to talk about styles of fighters. I've heard Floyd Mayweather against Tyson. But at some point, the guy who likes to dance around and spread things out, they have to. to attack. Now, how do you attack? Do you throw the football down the field and have success,

or do you pound it right at them and use Miami's girth against them? Can you run it wide? But Miami's been so sound defensively, and the new defense coordinator, Heatherman, has been incredible. They are as simple as there is. They line up their four down guys, and they beat us. So that's the biggest matchup to me with Ole Ole Miss's offensive line and Trinidad against that Miami defense. You know, back to Carson Beck for one moment. moment. He did not necessarily participate in a big way in the win over A&M, but stats aside against Ohio State, where he only threw for 138 yards, he was crucial on a lot of those third down conversions. I think they went 50% on third down. And with his arm and with his legs, he made

big play after big play in that game. Don't you agree? Absolutely. No doubt. And we're sitting there last year, and, you know, Penn State, your name game, and it's a really, you know, the time is there, you're backed up, and, you know, do you go for this? And Penn State and James Franklin, they went for it. And what happened? The quarterback made the biggest mistake of the season. And I believe when you have a team built like Miami has, the court just don't turn it over. You know, there's a couple three and outs. Our defense could buckle down in the red zone and get us three, you know, when we need stop. But you can't keep giving the ball. You can't give, especially Ole Miss.

I mean, look at what they do with extra possessions in any of these teams. Indiana is the king of the turnover margin. Oregon feasted up in the Orange Bowl. So as long as... And you know what else? Miami's so comfortable with that. Now that you've seen

it, now if they've gone through a couple losses, why do they lose? Because they turn the ball over like crazy. They really found themselves. And I give them a lot of credit. And Mario has had plenty of detractors. I give him a ton of credit, man. He went out and got two great coordinators, and the system is working, and they're playing by how they play. You know, they didn't have one penalty against Ohio State, and I think they went for over 90 penalties this year, not one.

Well, there were hardly any penalties called in the game, period, which was one of the best parts of the game. Look, I am still waiting for Mario Cristobal to step on as you know what when it matters, you know, with a clock management or, you know, something of a game impacting decision from the sideline. but he hasn't done it yet. Real quickly, before we get to your thoughts on each of these matchups, because Rubin Bain had this dominant game against Ohio State, and he's had an unbelievable season, and he's going to be a top 10 pick, and Washington now has number 7 overall.

Just give me your thoughts on Rubin Bain as a pro prospect. It's all going to come down to Rubin Bain and Mezidore, his teammate, and then David Bailer from Texas Tech. everybody, it's going to be Victor Poison. I think it's a lot like the quarterback situation when they took Daniels and May was out there, Taylor 1st, the whole thing. The one thing I will say is

Bailey from Texas Tech has more twitch. Yeah, agreed. Better pass rusher. Bain is a physical power. You know, a lot of bad words are used to describe a guy that good. He's all of it. But the best part is talking to the Miami staff.

and how he goes about his business. He's an old-school kid. He wants to be coached hard. He wants to be yelled at. He wants to know what he did wrong. And I found that so refreshing to hear in this day and age, and we're in the middle of the portal right now, and all we hear about is who wants, how much money.

So you're not getting a diva kid that's been a five-stared a whole way. This kid's worked his butt off. And I don't see any of those three guys being bad picks. He's going to come down for preference of a defense. I totally agree with you on Bailey. He just strikes me much more as the quick twitch edge, you know, the guy that's going to beat you, you know, with speed as much as he does anything else. All right.

Let's get to the two matchups. I mean, you picked Miami early in the year. I thought they were the best team in the country, too. I rode you on that, and then they disappointed us in the Louisville and the SMU games. hell. The truth is they were lucky to win a couple of other games they were involved in, including what was

the game that they barely won at the end? I'm kind of forgetting right now. I'm blanking. Florida State. They barely beat Florida State. Oh, yeah. They held up. Yeah. So the matchup between Miami and Ole Miss

Thursday night in the Fiesta Bowl, who wins and why? I mentioned how important the Ole Miss defensive line is. My biggest factor for them and I thought that one of the advantages was Golding taken over and put more of an onus on the defense because when I look back Kevin, I guess I was at the first game with Ole Miss in Georgia. The middle of their defense, the kid

Dottery linebacker and Perkins, their playmaker who runs all over the field. In game one, Dotteries played 86 snaps. The other night in the Sugar Bowl, he only played 69. Eccles, Perkins, played 70 in the first game, 50 the other night. Eccles and Harris, the two D-tackles played 75 and 73 snap. In the Sugar Bowl, they only played 60 and 52. They found a way to get those guys' reps, and look how much better they were in the fourth quarter.

If you remember that first game, they got worn out. Trinidad was going to find a receiver, and Georgia blasted him in the fourth quarter. So right away, it didn't look pretty with Golding in the first half. You saw him ripping his defense, but I'll tell you what, man, in the heat of the moment where he's never made decisions like that, he was spot on with making adjustments. And if you remember, going back, I watched this game too, when Georgia out of his back-to-back national championships, they go to Ole Miss 24, back against Golding, and Golding shut him down. He really confused Beck.

and Beck only averages 7 yards per target. So when I went back and watched that game, I charted, against that Old Miss defense and golden calling the shots, Carson Beck was 5 at 10 for 92 yards with a pick, no touchdown. Wow. On 10 plus yards throws. That was 24. That was last year?

Yep. Yep, that was at Ole Miss, and Georgia's only lost in that whole win streak before they got beat by, who did they lose? They lost two on Notre Dame. Yeah, in the finals. Or in the playoff. So there is familiarity.

I do think that Ole Miss defense in 24 is better than this one in 25, but give me Trinidad Jamblest compared to Jackson Dart. I love what I've seen from this offense. They know who they are. They're not afraid. They have plenty of weapons. Lacey is the key. Can they run the football to keep that defense off the field?

Because that defense is to Miami's point. they wanted to run the football, they're going to have to be fresh. Special teams are kind of even. The kid from Ole Miss kicked the hell out of the ball. The kid from Miami, I thought, made a couple big kicks against Ohio State off of that wind tunnel down in college station. But I believe the physicality wins over, Kevin, with Miami and how they have dictated. I think it's way harder to do than people say. You know, like the Raven Steelers game the internet, right?

Oh, I'll just give the ball to Derek Henry 40 times. Well, he didn't do anything in the second half, right? So you've got to find, you've got to have another plan B. And Miami has been so persistent in that run game that I think it's going to be too much to handle for Ole Miss over the course of 60 minutes. It's boring. Miami's the favorite, but I like Miami. All right, let's go to the Peach Bowl, Friday night, Indiana, Oregon, and the rematch.

I think that was even more. than the last, you know, the last, you know, fourth quarter game-winning drive against Penn State. That was the moment when they went on the road and beat Oregon this year where you're like, wow, they're good again this year. So do they make it two times in one season over the same opponent does Indiana win? It's hard to be hold back your recency bias, but being at the Rose Bowl for Indiana, that was my third or fifth game in two years. just watching them and how sound they are, Kevin. When you look at them pregame, there's no BS with headphones and dances,

and this guy's got to throw at this guy. Like, everybody is just so focused on the goal, and that's winning a football game. The one thing about them, seeing them in person, and I think it really stuck out against Alabama, their skill guys are way better than people give them credit for. I mean, Sarat, I don't think he's going to run a great time in a 40, but, man, he is so dead on in contested catches. Cooper's a guy, you know, you saw him make the catch against Penn State, but he's, he's got pro-good, and then this Becker has come out of nowhere.

You know, Surrott doesn't play against Penn State. Cooper makes that catch on the sideline before, or no, Becker makes the play on the sideline before the Cooper touchdown. So Mendoza has full trust. I love what they do with their tight-end and offensive lines. I think it's great. All their runs are straight downhill. So these teams that want to move around, they're going to catch you. And you saw that as the game wore on with Alabama. With that lack of size, they're trying to move around.

They're buttoned up an operation as there is in their defense, getting a chance to know their defense coordinator, Brian Hayes, who is making a lot of money for himself. He told me before the game, I was talking about him. I said, you know, I feel like you should be confident. you know, against Alabama's offensive line, no, that's the weakness. And he's like, yeah, but we lost our stud in that daily kid

who got hurt in the celebration after the Big Ten title game. And he said, well, I just want to keep my goal, the main goal. And he said, my goal every game is to make the opposing offensive line not be able to sleep because of what just happened in the game. And he did it again against Alabama. So the familiarity in this game is being at that game. And Eugene, I thought Oregon was taken back by the physical. I mean, Indiana lives off of making place in your backfield,

and Indiana lives in Dante Moore's face. They had six sacks, seven TFLs. They dictated on the road in that environment. And I think there's a sound confidence with Indiana that comes from a head coach and goes all the way down. So, again, it's boring. But everybody's going to throw, you know, hard to be the team twice. that team that's been beaten the first time

as that success, as we've seen in the playoff with Alabama winning, Ole Miss winning. But I just trust Indiana a lot more. Oregon's been a great story. I thought they've done a great job of adapting, losing receivers, and then getting going with the run game. But that offensive line didn't look good against Texas Tech and Indiana has found that there is on a defensive side.

So I side with Indiana. If you had the number one pick and had a quarterback need, Mendoza or Dante Moore. the way it has been tracking, I have to go Mendoza. Now, and that's just because of the success that NFL teams have had in drafting quarterbacks that have played a ton. And I believe, now, I'll give you this. I've been at four Oregon games this year, and the Raiders have been at everyone.

So do they prefer Dante Moore? I don't know. Is he even going to come out? I don't know. But I sensed a liking of the Raiders to Dante Moore. But I trust Mendoza because he's played more football. I heard Daniel Jeremiah does a great job with the draft. Just talking about he is worthy that Mendoza is of a number one pick.

Now, is he the upside of a Jane Daniels, Drake, May, Caleb Williams? No. But, you know, there's plenty other spots in the league, man. After watching NFL quarterback playing in Week 18, I'll take a shot with Mendoza. But just from a trustworthy standpoint, he's seen more the bravado. Yeah, of course he's a nerdy guy.

He went to Cal, what do you expect? Those guys are all nerds. Sometimes nerds are good for you. So I side Mendoza slightly with Dante. All right, with Mendoza. I hope you're right that we get to see Indiana, Miami. I know it's not the sexiest matchup for just, you know, general sports fans.

but to see Miami's offensive line and defensive line against Indiana, that's the matchup I want. And to be honest with you, I think of the two teams, Miami, including Oregon, the three teams, Miami has and would have the best chance at beating Indiana. Yes. I totally agree. And I'll tell you what, if we do get that, the bolt equipment staff better bring some extra tin straps.

But they're, I mean, you want to talk about people say traded paint on the helmets or cracking shoulder pads? I mean, look, I just, I watched the Cotton Bowl again back last night. The physicality with what Miami's secondary tackles with, like Carnal Tate, I thought he kind of tapped out

on the game, and he might be the first rider receiver taking in the NFL track. But that physicality wears on you, and that's why I'm really interested to see. After watching Ole Miss get hit a couple times in the first half the other night, you know Mario's going to have a lot of

a message for a secondary. I think both games are going to be kind of chippy, too. At Stanford, Steve 82, on X, on Twitter, he will be at both games, part of the college game day crew. He'll be making his picks on that show, but you just heard him. He likes both favorites to win outright. Are you picking both of them to cover, three and a half and four and a half? Yeah, I believe so. You know, Kevin. Actually, it's three. and a half and three and a half now. I'm seeing mostly three and a halves with Indiana. You got young kids. Just throw them in a

money line parlor. They never lose. Never, never. Three team teasers never lose. You're getting nine points, ten points, you're good. All right, great job, safe travels. We'll be watching. Thanks. Appreciate you, bud. All right, that's it for the day back tomorrow with Tommy.