The Kevin Sheehan Show - What's Next...Watson?

Episode Date: March 9, 2022

Kevin had Ben Standig jump on the podcast for a day-after autopsy on Washington's miss on Russell Wilson. They discussed what they knew, what they thought, and what's next including Washington's probably run at Deshaun Watson. Lots more too on the free agent possibilities like Trubisky, Mariota, and others. The guys discussed Bobby Wagner's availability as well. Kevin finished with the 10-year anniversary of the Redskins' blockbuster trade with the St. Louis Rams that led to their drafting of RG3.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. Rate us and review us please on Apple and Spotify. I appreciate all of your reviews and ratings recently.

And I will read some of those reviews a little bit later on in the podcast. If you missed the show yesterday, I got it out late. I scrapped the show that I had originally done when all of the Russell Wilson news broke. And we did a shorter podcast. But I recapped everything that I knew and that I thought about Russell Wilson and Aaron Rogers. And that podcast, of course, is still available. But you're going to get a lot more of that today. And you're going to get it here at the top of the podcast with my good friend Ben Standing from the Athletic,

who's done a great job of writing about this on The Athletic. Follow him on Twitter at Ben Standing. He's got a podcast, as we've mentioned before, called Standing Room Only. Before we get to this, I'm just curious because I haven't asked you this. Did you watch Winning Time, Episode 1 on HBO Sunday or recently? I did. And what did you think? So I knew what the subject was, but I had no idea.

what the show was exactly or how it was going to be filmed. And immediately, I was like, well, what is it going on here? The characters talking to camera. I like that felt like it was, you know, back in the day, it was the way it was shot. But it was very sort of odd and curious. It was a hoot to see, you know, to hang out with Norm Nixon and Gary Buss and some of these people.

but it was sort of a I don't know I thought it was a little bit of an odd episode I'm going to have to get used to it I think but it was interesting I loved it I recommended it yesterday at the end of the podcast

several of you tweeted me about Jack Kent Cook I mentioned that Jack Ken Cook played by Michael O'Keefe would appear to be one of the worst people that has ever graced God's Green Earth and it's very

it's very much kind of this combination and I was trying to describe it yesterday, and I don't know if I did it accurately. It's like part mockumentary. It's part dark comedy. It's part documentary. But John C. Riley so far is excellent playing Jerry Buss. And the only disappointment was this wasn't on Netflix, and so I couldn't binge it.

Because I think I would have absolutely just stayed up, and I don't care how much sleep I would have gotten. I would have binge the whole thing. I can't wait for the next episode. I was not expecting to feel that way about it, but I really liked it. Okay, enough of that. There's the recommendation. It sounds like you would recommend it as well.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, especially if you, you know, paid attention to that era of Lakers. I mean, it was just so interesting. I mean, the Cherry Webb stuff was hilarious. I actually didn't realize that he was somewhat opposed or very opposed to taking Magic Johnson, and I did some, like, you know, Googling afterwards, and that was an act. actual thing. I just assumed that he was all in.

But yeah, it was fun. Yeah, the Jerry West stuff was definitely a surprise to me too. And I think some of the good stuff coming, you know, for those that remember this era, and I do, is, you know, is Paul Westhead ended up coaching

Magic's first team, the rookie year team, the team that won the title with Magic having one of the great all-time performances in an NBA finals game, game six at the spectrum, with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar out of the game and Magic playing center and scoring 42 points. But Magic didn't like Westhead. So they moved on from Westhead to Pat Riley. So all of that stuff is coming as well. You know, for those of you that were, you know,

reached out to me to say that you really enjoyed it too. And I don't think I had one person that reached out to me on Twitter to say that they didn't agree that it was surprisingly very good in Jack Kent Cook, yes, after selling the Lakers in 79 to Jerry Buss, then took over and bought out Edward Bennett Williams and became the majority shareholder of the Washington Redskins. And look, I mean, Jack Ken Cook may not have been the greatest guy ever, but he was an outstanding owner because he hired great people and let them do their job and he stayed out of the way for the most part. Anyway, all right, let's get to yesterday. So just for the purposes of kind of updating those that didn't listen to yesterday's podcast, and for Ben's purposes, I'll net out my overall kind of thoughts on yesterday. Number one, Russell Wilson not playing in Washington should not be devastatingly disappointing

as Walker tweeted me early this morning. The chances were never that high that Russell Wilson or Aaron Rogers were going to play quarterback for Washington. The Rogers thing was not really even in play ever. The Wilson thing may have been associated with better odds of being traded here, but the odds were still in major long-shot territory. So if you are devastatingly disappointed, you know, based on Rogers staying in Green Bay and Wilson being traded to Denver, then you haven't been listening to most of us, Ben included. You know, the two of us on my radio show for the last two months have every Friday guest on the quarterbacks that were going to be on the 2022 roster.

The new quarterbacks for me and Ben have been Tribisky and Willis, basically for about two months. You know, I think I mixed in Marriota along the way, but nobody, actually Brendan did. Brendan guessed Russell Wilson at some point. But nobody really that's been following this really thought Russell Wilson was going to end up in Washington or Aaron Rogers was. We'll get to Watson later on. Number two, I was ready to really pounce on them yesterday when I saw the offer and I thought it's a really good offer, but it's an offer that could have been topped if you were really being aggressive, if this was really the priority, as we've been told, as we've been sold,

and I was ready to pounce on them as posers. But after multiple conversations in having multiple sources, Washington offered three first rounders plus another pick or two later in the draft and were willing to part with players. They were aggressive in their offer to Seattle. Seattle told them, point blank, we prefer to trade Russell Wilson to an AFC team. We are negotiating with an AFC team. And the offer never got beyond the picks.

So players were not mentioned. Although there is a report from this Jordan Schultz guy that Washington was hesitant to part with Chase Young. I did not hear that. I'm not disputing that report. I heard that it never, I was told that it never got to the point where players were. discussed, but I was told that Washington was willing to discuss players in addition to the picks. Thirdly, to those that say Russell Wilson is in Denver because he wanted Denver over Washington, I agree with you. Both things I think are true. Seattle preferred to trade him to an

AFC team and Russell Wilson preferred Denver over any of the NFC teams, including Washington. and I believe that Philadelphia was another team that was probably making overtures and was very interested in acquiring Russell Wilson as well. You know, both things can be true, and I think they both were true. Why would Russell Wilson prefer Denver? Well, Ben, I think it's because Denver's got a better roster. Denver's got an offensive head coach. Denver is closer to the West Coast where maybe his wife wants to remain. So there, that sums it up for me. Ben Standing is with me. So give me your overall take on all of the events of yesterday.

Yeah, I mean, just to put a bow on the reporting, I mean, since I heard the same things as you, I hadn't heard the other picks. But obviously that's just when you're discussing a deal like this, the headline, you know, you don't really include a fourth round pick in 2023 is a, that's a side note. But obviously, if Denver gave up what they gave up, logically they didn't give up some extra picks or those things could not possibly be deal breakers. And like what you said on the players, it hadn't gotten to the point to specifically say who it could be. One thing I'll just know, I don't necessarily, like you, I heard nothing about the Kate Young or any player. That tweet, what did he say that they were very cautious about including Cage Young? Yeah, where is it? I had it up here a while ago.

Yeah, the Schultz guy said, oh, shit. Oh, here it is. I don't believe any report. Oh, no, no, no, that's not it. Sorry, here it is. Jordan Schultz said, the commander submitted several substantial offers to the Seahawks for Russell Wilson. I'm told Washington was very hesitant to include Chase Young in any package.

So I did not hear that. I heard it never got to a discussion about players. I was told that Washington was willing to discuss players as part of the overall offer, but I didn't hear anything about Chase Young, them being hesitant on Chase Young. So I'm very hesitant to discuss this guy who I don't really know, but he would not be somebody I would definitely trust, I'll just say. That said, just for fun, if in fact what he's saying is accurate that they were very hesitant,

people, what that actually means is they were willing to trade him. Because you can't be very hesitant. If you aren't willing to trade him,

he's not, he's not available. Very hesitant it means you're considering it. So just for whatever it's worth, if the fact that war actually is an actual thing, which I'm not saying

that it is, I didn't hear that, then, but as I reported a couple weeks ago, we're not reported, let me phrase that. As I wrote a couple of weeks ago, logically,

everybody on the roster is going to have to be available if you're actually trying to get a quarterback at that level. anyway. So, yeah, I'm with you on the general idea that it seems like Seattle wanted to move him out of the conference. I was told by an executive on another team that was in the mix for Wilson that they had the same impression that Seattle wanted to move him out of conference. So this isn't just potential spin from people connected or around Washington. and this is what other teams are saying as well.

I think that's an important note. To that end, on some level, it all still did come down to what Russell Wilson want to do because he had a no trade clause. And what I think would be curious to know is, did he say ultimately, hey, I want to go to Denver. They have a setup that kind of looks like maybe what Tom Brady went to a little bit in Tampa Bay,

some good playmakers and a good defense and put me in there and let's go. Or did he say, okay, Russell, here are your options. Let's talk specifically Washington, and he says, no chance, I'm not going. I don't know that that's the case. That would be the interesting part, but based on what I've heard, and it sounds like what you and others as well, the combination of the team and the player wanted him to Denver more or less. So to that end, you know, I don't know how much we can really, you know, crap on Rivera and Washington for not getting him. and to your larger point,

yeah, there's, I don't know why anybody would be disappointed. Sure, it would be fun. As somebody who has to cover this team, I promise you, I would much rather cover Russell Wilson than the other quarterbacks that we're all sort of talking about here would be fun for all kinds of levels. But, you know, that just was never seemingly realistic. Rogers, the same, same with a lot of these guys.

But, you know, so I don't know what to tell you. If you were living in that level of delusion, it is what it is. back in January during the playoffs is when I started to write, hey, you guys are making fun to Jimmy Garoppolo? I'm telling you right now, Washington would be lucky to have a shot at him based on the reality. And by the way, Mitch Trubisky will have options. It's something I wrote in January too much derision.

And now all we're seeing is, I mean, at the Combine last week, I'm telling you, I had far more conversations about Mitch Trubisky with people than I did any of the rookies in the draft. and now we're seeing that other teams are in play for Tribisky. So, yeah, this quarterback thing, it's going to remain quite curious. And yesterday was a bummer just from the same point of, okay, well, you know, somebody else is getting the fun quarterback, not Washington, but it's not disappointing or shocking in any way, shape, or form. Yeah, when you get to a report about Tribusky here in a moment,

I want to just address one thing as it relates to Wilson. There was some sound, which I played on my radio show this morning, from Jay Keeps. Jay is Russell Wilson's personal trainer, and he was on a radio show in Denver. And he said he had talked to Russell Wilson earlier in the day, knew nothing about the trade that was about to happen. but then believes that Russell Wilson said no to Washington and Philadelphia and said he wouldn't accept a trade there. So Pro Bowl weekend, I reported that Russell Wilson told people that he would not be opposed to coming to Washington, and I stand by that.

In fact, I followed up with people that I had that from yesterday, and they said, no, no, he was not only not opposed to it. he was doing kind of due diligence stuff at the Pro Bowl because he knew Washington would be one of the teams coming after him. Now, what does due diligence mean at the Pro Bowl? Well, I mean, picture him and John Allen together with spouses. I'm sure John Allen was probably peppered with questions about Washington and the situation. So I, but again, it doesn't mean that there weren't three or four other teams that he would have preferred to Washington. So if Denver was in the mix, it's very possible he told Seattle, hey, I don't want these

other teams. I want Denver, which by the way aligns with what Denver wanted. So it's kind of in many ways irrelevant because Denver, I don't think was going to entertain an actual trade from Washington or Philadelphia or anybody else in the NFC unless it was like an outrageous offer. and Washington may have been on the verge of making one. And I think that's an important point to hammer home. Because for all the people that say or thought, like I did initially yesterday,

well, guess they weren't trying hard enough. I think they did. I think it's hard to be critical of the team for, you know, in this particular case, getting outbid or not being aggressive enough. or as I mentioned, kind of being posers here over the last month and a half about how important and how big they were going to swing. Because I think they did swing big. You know, the three first rounders in the additional pick or two, it was made very clear to me

that it wasn't just three first rounders in terms of the pick package because the pick package, they said, was superior to Denver's pick package, to which I said, by the way, Ben, well, three firsts basically by itself could almost equate to two ones, two twos, and a fifth. Like if you were putting both of those side by side, would you say that the three firsts were obviously better than the two ones, two twos, and a fifth? They would almost be equal. Maybe the three first you'd say, a little bit better. But I was told that the pick package was much better. And somebody then confirmed to me, no, no, it was more than three ones.

there was another later round pick and perhaps two later round picks. I'm guessing something like a third and a fifth or a fourth and a sixth, something like that. And who knows, maybe they would have gotten a fourth rounder back like Denver did. Because Russell Wilson also came back with a fourth rounder. I love how sometimes you get a pick back and it seems so insignificant that it doesn't even get mentioned, but they did get a fourth rounder back for it. But there are a couple of things about Washington that we've all discussed that make it unappealing for almost any player with choices. It's what we've always talked about.

Like, agents understand this. Players may look at coaches and talent and roster and opportunity and money more than they look at owner, but everybody's been paying attention to all of this. I mean, over the last two weeks, we've had Washington launching into their own investigation and then being emasculated by the league saying, no, no, we're going to do our own investigation of the Tiffany Johnston complaints. You know, we've had the crest issue. Like, they keep sort of self-inploding. By the way, I wanted to mention this real quickly.

There's like some new Sean Taylor thing, you know, push again by the organization. I kind of predicted that. But anyway, yeah, so what's next? Let's focus on Deshawn Watson. But before I do that and get your answer on that, I did want to read this. This from Charles Robinson, long-time reporter at Yahoo. Charles Robinson yesterday, quick note on a QB not named Wilson or Rogers, spoke to a team in the thick of it for a competitive backup QB and free agency.

and they have a strong belief that Mitchell Trubisky is going to end up with the New York Giants and he'll compete with Daniel Jones for the starting job. Brian Dable is the new head coach of the New York Giants. He was the offensive coordinator in Buffalo. He knows Mitch Trubisky very well. That, you know, I don't think I had considered the Giants. Maybe you had. I don't know.

But I just think that, like we've said, We've both been saying for a couple of months now, there's probably going to be some competition for Mitchell Trebisky. He's going to have some choices here. You might have to pay eight figures and guarantee some of it and make it a multi-year deal to get Mitch Trubisky. So let's start with – no, let's not start with him. Let's start with Deshaun Watson because he's the last man standing in the elite franchise quarterback category. I think Washington's interested. Do you agree or disagree?

And then what kind of chances would you give Washington? Yeah, I mean, I guess interest is relative, meaning, obviously, I think from a football perspective, it's a no-brainer, right? You know, what are you 25, you know, young, talented, like that. That would set you up for the next decade. The issues, of course, are the off-the-field stuff. And, you know, it looks like there may be some more clarity on some of his legal issues this weekend. And with some good grand jury and things like that, and my sense has been that, you know, his, you know, people around him are just kind of waiting to sort of see how this plays out before really sort of diving in to what their options are.

Obviously, you know, one one off the board yesterday in Denver, I guess you could say a different one up in Seattle, depending on what they're looking to do. It feels like Seattle is doing a full rebuild, though. So, I mean, to an extent, sure, I mean, they're going to be interested. and all that. But again, he has a no trade call just like Russell Wilson. I don't know why he would come here. The only advantage now, I would think, for

Washington or really any NFC team, is the conference has gotten suddenly weaker, right? Tom Brady, retiring, Russell Wilson, going to the AFC. Now, you know, what do you got? Aaron Rogers, Matt Stafford, and, you know, I mean, Matt Ryan went to a Super Bowl

a while ago. And, you know, you can say whatever you want about that press. It's not that the AFC is far more stacked and quarterback. So Deshawn Watson coming to this conference from a football perspective, you know, could be in a pretty good position. And also he's the young one. Rogers is old Stafford is, you know, up there. So, you know, he could be the lead guy for a while.

So the NFC, I think, could it be appealing. But, you know, he's Washington. You know, this goes back to what we were saying before, you know, for all the reasons, including the quarter of the owner stuff. I mean, you know, when we deal with the players on a daily basis out there during the season, we're not peppering them with constant questions about the owner or all the off-the-field stuff, but obviously once in a while it comes up. But even if we don't ask about it, it's in the news.

They hear it. They're getting asked about it by their family, and I know I was told that some players were, you know, getting frustrated and annoyed throughout the season by just the constant, you know, negative vibes surrounding them. So, you know, all these people talk, you know, for what it's worth, maybe not be worth anything. DeShone Watson's agent is the agent who repned Dwayne Haskins. Now, with the Dwayne Haskins era, put more of the owners of how that went bad on Dwayne Haskins, but, you know, for whatever, I'm just saying he's had insight into this plays with a quarterback,

and, you know, depending on what he thinks, you know, that could be some variable into this as well. So I wouldn't put too much stock into him showing up here. The only question would be, do other teams eliminate him because of the off-the-field stuff? And therefore, the list of potential contenders shrinks to the point where Washington is one of the, you know, a few teams. But I would still imagine he's going to have better options that he's going to find more desirable. Yeah, I think one of those options actually is Seattle. I think Seattle, you know, again, like we were talking about many times prior to yesterday, why are they bringing Pete Carroll and the staff back if they're going to do a rebuild?

And that's why I leaned heavily in the direction of Russell Wilson not being traded, even though, you know, there's been a lot of smoke around it for the last year and a half. But I still felt like once they brought Pete Carroll back, even if Pete Carroll and Russell Wilson don't get along anymore. And I think there's been a lot of discussion about the strained relationship between the two. I just thought if he's back, you know, they're still with Russell Wilson. I'd be pissed off if I were a Seattle fan. That package wouldn't excite me getting, I don't have a quarterback now.

But what would excite me is if Deshawn Watson is ready to be traded and he's going to be eligible and he's cleared of all this stuff, which, you know, there's a big grand jury on Friday. and, you know, eight people are going to be subpoenaed, and the grand jury will probably decide that day or within a few days afterwards as to whether or not they're going to be criminal charges against them. You can't trade until you find out about the criminal charges. But, you know, I think Seattle could be a player for Deshawn Watson.

By the way, there was this interesting note from Sean Michael Duggar. You know him. He writes for The Athletic. I've had him on the radio show and the podcast. He covers the Seahawks. I don't remember this being. a thing, maybe you do. He wrote about Seattle's future at quarterback that John Schneider wanted to trade Wilson and select Josh Allen back in 2018. I don't remember any discussion of Wilson getting traded in 2018. I thought that that was a last year started thing. But that's what

he wrote, he wrote that Schneider wanted to trade Wilson in 2018 in draft Josh Allen. Interesting. Do you remember that? I don't. I don't. I mean, Michael, Mike is

good at what he does and you know, he and I talk during this whole offseason about Wilson. So I hadn't, we didn't talk about that. But yeah, if he has that, I'm sure that's from a pretty good source. He's putting that out. there or maybe was a discussion in public before,

that somehow missed the two of us. But, yeah, I mean, look, Russell Wilson's always been sort of an interesting guy, right? So, you know, to me, he's such an interesting quarterback. I've always said historically that Donovan McNabb was the best, worst quarterback I ever saw. Like, there were times like this guy's just terrible, and yet they won 12 games every year.

But, you know, like, I mean, don't bowl. in the dirt, but somehow he'd make him play. He wins. I wouldn't put Russell Wilson in that category. He's absolutely frightening in the last two minutes of a game, down three, and he's got the ball. But at the same point, like, you know, some

aspects, the opposite to the side thing or whatever, I could see where maybe you're like, well, do we need to go with a more prototype guy, but whatever. So, um, trading Russell Wilson, you know, even up until yesterday morning, seemed like an absolute long shot. Your point about them being the Deshawn

Watson's sweet stakes, It's certainly interesting, and I'm with you. That was my whole point. Why I just kept doubting Seattle to trade him is because Pete Carroll is 70 years old. Why is he going to rebuild? Now, for what it's worth, they did also yesterday release their longtime linebacker Bobby Wagner, who I would absolutely put on the radar for this place because of the nature of who he is, a veteran, the Mike linebacker, Rivera, all that.

So it feels like a little bit of a rebuild, but at the other hand, look, they were kind of, such like Washington, they were disappointing last year for a variety of reasons, and maybe they just felt like, hey, we need to get younger, and it's a little more about that than it is saying we're starting over. Well, they were disappointing in part because Russell Wilson got hurt. I mean, you know, and they weren't very good without him. And when he came back, he came back too early and wasn't very good right when he came back. And then they kind of surged at the end of the year. You know, you said something that's so interesting.

and it kind of is consistent with a lot of callers this morning. And it's shocking to me. I can't believe how many callers I had this morning that said they're glad Washington didn't get Russell Wilson. That he's kind of overrated. That he wouldn't have really been the guy to elevate the team that much. That it would have been far too much to give up for him. and I kind of feel like last year that was pretty much the majority of the fan conversation

that giving up, you know, multiple firsts for Deshawn Watson or Wilson or Rogers was crazy and certainly giving up anything more than like a second rounder for Matt Stafford was nuts. But I kind of thought most of the people kind of had evolved from that position over the last year and understood the importance of this. Look at what Denver gave up. Look at what Aaron Rogers is going to get paid at 39 years old, even though he hasn't won a Super Bowl since 2010 and has fallen short in the postseason. And you, it sounded to me like you said, and I'm going to agree with some of it here in a moment,

but that Russell Wilson may not have been the answer here. Well, no, I mean, I guess I would just say if you're holding Russell, Wilson in Seattle, and you're constantly looking at he's not the biggest guy. We have to sort of tailor things specifically to make it work for him and that sometimes like his highs are very high, but the

other part, sometimes he can look kind of mediocre. And if you're comparing him to a Josh Allen statue S-type quarterback, I could get where he would fall in love with that. No, I would, look, so there's multiple ways to look at this.

In a vacuum, if you just said, you're going to give them all these draft picks for any one player, you might think, well, I don't know, like that's a lot, even if quarterback's the most important position. But that's not what it is just here. This place needs a recharge. The fans are absolutely apathetic. We know about all the negative headlines. Russell Wilson shows up. I don't care if they never make the playoffs. Season tickets are going way up. The Viborat is going way up. And the players in the locker are going to be very excited because Russell Wilson's a Super Bowl champion.

They haven't, you know, once the last time they've had a viable quarterback around here. When I talked to RG3 the other day in Indianapolis at the Combine, I've like said, there's a Wilde, basically, that it's 10 years since you got drafted, and your rookie are so great, and they've been in the desert since, basically looking for one. Like, that's just 10 years.

That's not the 30 years that you and I are more familiar with. So trading for Russell Wilson, giving up all that stuff, is absolutely, a totally fine thing to do. You have, you know, you have no shot at the Super Bowl, basically, in this era. If you don't have a guy that's the top half of the league quarterback, and he is a guy that's shown in the right circumstances can make all the plays to win you the title. So I'm not, no, I'm, I'm, I had no really sure that.

I'm just saying that, you know, because of his size and maybe he's also an interesting personality, that I could get why a Seattle might be like, okay, what else do we have going on here? But, no, I would have no problem with that. By the way, just to say something here, I'm not trying to sound like less need, who just the GM of the Rams, who traded away all their picks to get guys like Odell Beckham and Matt Stafford.

Here's the reality, right, Kevin? Like, we're both NBA guys. If an NBA team acted like the Rams, they would probably be screwed, right? Because if you're a star player that you just acquired, don't pan out, you have nothing to fall back on. You're going to turn into the Brooklyn net, when they traded all those picks for Pearson Garnett.

And you have, because it's only the first round. The second round are guys who need a passport that go play in Europe for the most part. But in the NFL, that's not true at all. If you had an NFL team that just never had a first or second round pick and you only had to rely on the third through seven, you know what that means? That means you get Antonio Gibson and Terry McCorn. It means you get Cam Curl. It means you get Chase Ruey and Cole Holcomb.

Like you get starters. So you can trade away those first round picks. You're not mortgaging your future. You're giving away the better odds of finding a good player because there's just more players to pick from. But you're not giving away your chance of actually succeeding. That is a big fallacy that the Rams kind of like poked many holes through. So trading away multiple first or seconds, I would have had no problem with for a major

upgraded quarterback. Yeah, I totally agree with it. That's well said. I want to make sure, too, on the Russell Wilson conversation, I think, I mean, we talked about this. I forget a few and I talked about it, but I would have taken Rogers over Wilson, you know, even if you only had him for three years. I would, Watson, if everything's, you know, okay, Watson's a much better acquisition than

Wilson, you know, assuming, you know, that he's eligible and cleared and all that stuff. not just because of the age. He's just a better quarterback right now than Russell Wilson. I'm not saying that Deshawn Watson's already had a year that was better than Russell Wilson's year. No, I'm not saying that. But he's already in the conversation of top five to top eight and he's not even entered his prime.

So you're looking at having him for a much longer run. I also, in watching Russell Wilson and being a fan of Russell Wilson over the years, I understand that there are games in which you're like, whoa. I mean, he keeps backing up and there's the ball into the dirt. But there's been very few quarterbacks that with the game on the line have delivered like Russell Wilson. And they've won all of those games because they had a good team, but it was primarily because they had Russell Wilson playing quarterback.

The Denver Broncos went from being, you know, somewhere in the neighborhood of like plus 1,500. to win the Super Bowl to like plus $750 this morning. I'm looking at my bookie right now. They're the fifth pick now to win the Super Bowl next year, behind the Bills, Chiefs, Packers, and Rams. All right. So Washington wouldn't have been the fifth pick with Wilson to win the Super Bowl, but they would have been in the top eight or nine,

which would have been a position they have not been in since the year 2000. When they were, that was the last time they were legitimately in the conversation of Super Bowl contention. If they'd gotten Rogers, Washington would have been in the top five in terms of odds. So Wilson's a massive difference maker. Now, you know, there's always the possibility at 35 years old or 34 years old in the upcoming year that his best days are behind him. But Denver's roster has been begging for a quarterback because they have been a quarterback

away from being a pretty good team. Denver was seven and seven. essentially lost their last four games. They were competitive games, including the finale against the Chiefs, where the Chiefs needed a 75-yard fumble return to win the game. In Denver, if you recall, traded away their best player at the trade deadline, Von Miller, to the Rams. But they were in contention without a quarterback last year with one. They got rid of no-fant. That's a big, you know, that's a big-time player. But they've got phenomenal weapons offensively. And when you, you know, when you're talking

talking about Chub and Sertan and Simmons and perhaps Bon Miller, who looks like he wants to go back to Denver here in the offseason, Denver's going to have a really good chance next year, despite the division they're in where you could argue that Wilson's the third best quarterback in the division behind Mahomes and Herbert. He's certainly not the best quarterback in the division, but he's still very much a franchise quarterback and elite quarterback who started to play better when he got healthier at the end of last year. Let's not forget that he was not healthy and yet somehow almost pulled off a miracle on a 98-yard driver, whatever it was, at the end of that game on Monday night against Washington when Washington didn't have a kicker

to kick a 20-yard field goal. I still don't understand why they didn't have a kicker. That why Tressway couldn't have gone out there and just punched one through from 20 yards out. to give them an 11-point lead. But the coach said they didn't have a kicker that night. So Watson, by the way, is going to have, he's got a no trade clause. And if people are looking at him, there are teams like Philadelphia and Seattle just in the conference alone that are just going to have better situations and more dry powder to go after him.

I do believe that Washington does not fear the PR ramifications. of a Deshawn Watson, that they believe, like I've mentioned many times before, it can't get any worse, you know, we've got to win. And so I think if Watson's legitimately available and going to be eligible, I do think Washington will swing big on that one as well. What did you make of Charles Robinson's Mitch Trubisky thing about him going to New York? Yeah, and I would just echo. I don't think the PR aspect of Watson would be the negative.

here the way people are perceiving that they should think that way. The Charles Robinson thing, well, like I said, I mean, I've been saying for weeks now, almost two months, that he's going to have multiple options. It was just simple math, lay out the landscape of the quarterback, understand how uninspiring this incoming class is, at least from the context of the 2022 season. And then when you see the free agents, you know, if we had to win a game tomorrow, you know, You'd probably rather go with, say, Teddy Bridgewater than Mitch Trubisky. But Teddy Bridgewater is sort of like a Ryan Fitzpatrick.

You know what he is. There's no real upside there. Trubisky, I think there is. And I think a lot of people around the league think that. That's what I heard when I wrote that story. That's what I heard all at the combine. Obviously, a lot of people also are like, hey, slow the roll here. Like, this guy isn't proven to be that much.

But he's got the athletic traits you're looking for to maybe talk yourself into him being your version of Ryan Tannahill, the reclamation project who becomes a viable starter. He's got the athleticism. You know, he had a 29 to 21 record as a starter in Chicago. They made the playoff twice. You know, like for all the negatives, you know, Alex Smith is the only quarterback here in several years. He's had a winning record in games he started. So, you know, we shouldn't discount that.

And like, you know, I've heard good things about him as a guy, teammates, things like that. So he's going to have options. Now, specifically to the Giants, well, I mean, look, he was in Buffalo the last year. Giants just hired a new head coach and a new GM from Buffalo. So if there's anything to this, that says a lot about what those guys think because they were the ones who got a long look at him throughout the whole year. You know, we did have the Giants ownership recently come out and say they're going to back Daniel Jones, but don't quite know how that works with Trevisky, and if you're Tribisky, let's just say the money was equal between Washington and New York,

boy, you really would want to have to stay with Brian Dayball to just want to not come here and have basically a straight shot to start, whereas there, I mean, unless they're telling him you're going to be the starter, and it's not a real competition, I would think Daniel Jones would have, I mean, I would have a decent chance. I think you and I might be the only two people who have Daniel Jones suddenly became available. I would say, sure, I'll take him here. I'll roll the dice.

I still think there's something there. So it's interesting, but again, to me, at a minimum, it's more to the point of he should have options. He's been talked up so much. I don't even know what to make of it anymore. Somebody at the Combine, an executive said to me, why does everybody think Mitch Trubisky has suddenly improved so much? He didn't play last year. that may be, but he also was with the coaching staff that, you know,

helped turn Jack Allen into a question from a question mark to an MVP candidate. So, you know, people can improve. He does have good athletic traits. He's been the guy that I've been – I went back and read my story from the last year about their offensive plan before Fitzpatrick. And I said they – this team needs to go out and find the broken quarterback. They think they can need to fix who has the most potential. Right.

And the two names that said were Mitch Trubisky and Marcus Mariotto. So, you know, it's hilarious. if everybody passed on him last year, now we get the $10 million a year contract, but that's the landscape this year. Ben's going to stick around for a few more minutes because we're going to take our guesses, our updated guesses after yesterday on the quarterbacks on the roster.

I'm going to give you the worst case for Washington over the next few weeks. And I do want to circle back to the Bobby Wagner. And, by the way, A.J. Klein, a player that Ron Rivera drafted in Carolina, also became available, linebacker. We'll get to those things next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. MyBooky right now has a great offer.

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Bet anything anytime anywhere with MyBooky. So let me give you the worst case. Like I was thinking about this yesterday. Philly gets to Sean Watson in a trade. Seattle signs Marcus Marietta and the Giants sign Tribisky. Who's left? See, I think that what I just described is actually a possibility. like Marriota would actually be a decent fit for Seattle if they don't end up trading for Deshawn Watson.

You know, bringing in Marriota to go with Locke and let them, you know, fight it out for the job next year. If they don't go big on Watson. I think Philadelphia... They have the ninth pick now. They have the ninth pick and they could take Willis or pick it, which you would expect them to do. Although I did see Todd McShay's updated mock draft and he had Seattle not taking a course. quarterback and had the first quarterback off the board, Washington, taking picket at number 11. So to me, like, the true, you know, worst case, Watson ends up in the division with Philly.

Tribisky ends up with the Giants. No matter what you think about Trubisky, it would mean that he picked the Giants over Washington. Picked his former coach, too, and his former general manager, more recently his former coach and general manager. Marriota, who's kind of been number two behind Trubisky, I think, on this, you know, Plan C, Plan D area, signs with Seattle. And now you're left with kind of the Andy Dalton, Teddy Bridgewater, Tyrod Taylor, who I'm James Winston. There was a report from that dude Schultz that Washington's one of the teams interested in Winston along with a rookie. Look, the bottom line is only rookies can say, only the rookies can't say no.

I mean, I guess a rookie could say, no, I'm not playing for Washington. I'm going to take the year off and put my name back in the draft next year. But that's not going to happen. That would be the worst case. Have I left anything out? No, I think those are things. I mean, beyond, like, you know, is it conceivable? Like, I was talking on my podcast last night with our pal Grant Paulson,

and he brought up the point, if you're the Raiders now, do you look at a situation where you're in a division with Mahomes, Herbert, and Wilson, does it actually make sense now to give Derek Carr $35 or $40 million? Are you better off maybe actually trading him and sort of retooling? And if so, then maybe he's available. That's just a guess. But it sort of makes some logical sense. And who knows?

Atlanta has got the Matt Ryan Captain is nuts, but they're now losing Calvin Ridley for the year. So, you know, does that change there? approach. But beyond that, beyond taking those bigger swings or hoping, yes, in terms of the basic landscape, that's what they're at. I mean, Bridgewater, like, none of these guys are going to be easy cells, but that one at least, there's some name recognition. He is a pretty decent quarterback if you had to go win tomorrow, right? He's probably the guy you would pick over all these other names. It's just, like I said before, there's just no upside. You're signing him, presumably,

to, like, a one-year deal, I would hope, and then you're back in the same boat. And even if you draft a quarterback at 11. Again, this is a draft. It feels like where most analysts are saying no quarterback is actually worth that spot. You're just going to pick someone that high because of the positional importance. So they still may be in the exact same boat they're in before. Here's my plan, Kevin. All right, you ready? This is what I'm going to write this, so nobody steal this. Here's what I'm going to propose that they do. The goal at this point to me is if you can't get a big guy, you've got to take as many swings as they can. had a long-term answer. They took zero last year,

providing a 30-year-old Fitzpatrick, and then backing him up with effectively Heineke, who has, you know, he was solid and I don't want to get yelled up by the Bob, but, like, you know, basically has no upside. No offense. But, but this time, so like, I know we're saying Trubisky's off the board in this case, but just for

argument to take, if you get Trubisky and take a shot in that, in that space, with him turning into Tannahill, right? You, at 11, last year the Bears had the 20th pick, traded up to 11 for field, they gave up a future one along with some other stuff to do it. Well, right now, Pittsburgh sits at 20, okay?

Now, I don't know if they would be willing to trade up, but let's just say you can talk them or the Saints who have 18 to trade up for picket if you're sitting there or Willis. Now you have a future one and pause there, their first round pick this year. Take whichever one of those other quarterbacks you like, Matt Corral, Desmond Ritter, I think they like, whatever. now you have Trubisky and this rookie. That's two shots to hope. Plus, now I've got another first round pick next year. This means that if everything falls apart... Hold on for a second. Hold on for a second. You've lost me here.

I want to just make sure that I'm clear on this. You are proposing that they trade back pick up a first round pick next year from, say, Pittsburgh, but at 20 still select a quarterback. I just want to make sure I'm clear on that. Maybe it's not picket. Maybe it's not Willis. Maybe it's corral or Ritter or how. But I want to make sure that I'm clear that this is going to be what you write, that your plan is trade back, sign the veteran that has the Tannahill upside, like Trabiski,

which Bridgewater does not have, okay? But maybe Trubisky does. And then also draft a quarterback, taking lots of swings, which would include now the opportunity to swing again next year. Correct. Now in this scenario, yeah, you have a correct. So I'm taking two swings this year with the Trubisky type and a rookie that I'm picking at, say, the 20th spot with this trade with Pittsburgh.

And now, next year, I now have an extra first round pick to dangle if either A, to move up high in the draft to take a Bryce Young, if that's a thing, or an extra first if next year's Russell Wilson becomes available. Now, none of this may lead to anything, but this is kind of where they're at. You have to give yourself as many opportunities as possible. And that, to me, is the most creative thing I can think to do beyond, you know, based on what we know.

Like, that's what I would do. Look, if they think Kenny Pickett or Malik Willis is the next thing, well, then just stay there and take them at 11. But if we're taking the overall assessment of this draft last from anybody I have talked to and anybody we've all heard from, then none of these guys are particularly exciting. So if they're all sort of in the same pot, just pick one of them later, get that extra. first, go with the Trubisky type, and now all of a sudden I've got three shots to solve this never-ending problem versus just signing a Bridgewater draft one rookie. I now have one shot, and that doesn't seem particularly exciting. I like that, and it's, you know, it's a new twist

and a new idea that I haven't heard anybody else talk about. But if the only quarterback in this draft that has a really high ceiling that excites you, is Malik Willis, and I think there's a chance that teams will view Willis as the only guy in the draft with a super high ceiling, even if, you know, there's a big bust potential. I don't know that I would veer away from doing my best to draft the guy with the big upside. Also, by the way, signing, you know, we've talked about this before, signing the guy that could become Tannahill, which really is, tribusical. I don't think it's Marriota. I personally know it's not Teddy Bridgewater or Andy Dalton. And I, you know, I mean, James Winston has always interested me. I just doubt that he's the kind of guy they're looking for coming off ACL.

And also, you know, he's talked about, you know, a true mobile quarterback. I think, you know, James isn't immobile. But here's the problem with next year. You're going to have to get one of the two quarterbacks that right now, Everybody thinks our two can't miss quarterbacks and will go number one, number two in some order. Bryce Young and C.J. Stroud and the 2023 draft. And of course, this is subject to change. It always does. You're going to have to suck next year.

Even if you've got multiple picks, no one's going to trade out of those spots next year. You know, anybody that's bad enough to lose 14, 13 or 14 games or 15 games to end up in those two spots. doesn't have the answer at quarterback, and they're not going to trade no matter how many first you offer. So I kind of think that this team can't really bottom out that low, no matter what they do. Even if it's starting Taylor Heineke for 17 games next year, they've already proven they can win seven with him.

Oh, yeah. You're right. Look, Ron Rivera is not the kind of coach who's going to think that type of big picture. He's going to be like most coaches, and focus on how does he win tomorrow. It's what drove me crazy about Scott Brooks Alston. He's starting guys, they pick on 10-day contract. He's playing guys over their first-round pick who needed reps, right?

I mean, these coaches tend to, what's the next play? That's why a coach typically should not be a GM, because they're thinking short-term, and the GM has got to think long-term. I'm with you. None of these options are great. The best path for Washington to get out of this conundrum is to be terrible this year. Now, I'm not saying, Tank.

not saying to do a Stephen Ross what he allegedly is being alleged up and just completely bottoming them out on purpose. But I am saying that for all the people out there who say they can't accept, they can't stomach a bad season, well, guess what? A mediocre season is where they're headed. It looks like anything if possible. If we're talking about these scenarios, the best path is they get three wins or in position to draft one of those two guys without trading any picks, they're good.

But like you said, their talent is too good. to just completely bottom out because they have some good players. And this is why having this extra stuff gives you at least some ammunition to possibly make a move. That's all I'm saying. Like, yeah, nothing is ideal, but this is the best of all worlds. And just to go back to the specific quarterback from this draft, Willis is the one that everybody talks about has the most upside. But if you look at it in terms of what Rivera has said, what he likes the most in the out of a quarterback,

the guy obviously has to make throws, but he constantly talked about the leadership component of the quarterbacks. How he's said before that that's the most important thing for him, how does that guy lead the locker room? And to me, Desmond Ritter kind of fits that vibe. He was really the heartbeat for that Cincinnati team that, you know, obviously was very, very impressive

the last couple of seasons. His teammates when I was at the Senior Bowl, all to all raves about that. And I could see, if again, in the trade-down scenario, know, Washington saying, you know what, I don't know what these guys are going to do from a pure pocket pastor scenario, but this guy can help us in the locker room and maybe we have a shot of him being good. So I think, like they could talk themselves into that. But yeah, I mean, like I said, all that part is relative to their own individual evaluation. And, you

know, who knows? Yeah, on Desmond Ritter, it's funny, two years ago, I didn't like him at all when people were talking them up. I just thought it was a great defensive. team. I still think the Cincinnati team of 2020 was better than the team that made the playoff this year, the 2021 team. But I thought he was spectacular this year. I thought the jump that Ritter made from sophomore junior year to this past year was sensational. Like, he really did look the part and he really did lead them. I'm trying to pull up right now just, I want to see the difference statistically in the years that I thought he was very average where they were really led by their defense. All right, here it is. In 2019, his sophomore year, and they were good,

he completed 55.1 percent of his passes, 18 touchdowns, nine picks. His junior year, he completed 66.2 percent of his passes through for only 2,200 or 2300 yards, 19 touchdowns, six picks this past year though. All right. 3,334 yards, by far and away, his best passing season, 30 touchdowns, eight picks, rushed for six touchdowns as well. Yeah, he made, I thought, a massive leap. And yes, he was the heart and soul of that team, although they had some very good defensive players, as they have had for the last couple of years.

He was in a program, which, by the way, had great coaches in it. And he doesn't seem to be the guy right now that has a chance of going before 11. And maybe in your scenario would be available if they traded back. But yeah, that's interesting. You've emphasized him now a couple of times in this conversation. Do you feel like you have information that they do like Ritter? You know, I mean, I feel sometimes like these things can be overstated. the notion of who people like.

And, you know, it's like, it's like saying to me, you know, what's your favorite ice cream? Today I might say Rocky Road tomorrow. I might say cookies and cream. Like, you know, I think that all these quarterbacks in general are sort of lumped together. It's, you know, sort of a, you know, individual, even people that in that building may have, you know, Scott Turner may have a different opinion around Rivera than Marty Herney and so on. So I don't know definitively. I'm just saying from a basic, here's the things that Ron Rivera has said.

which of these quarterbacks makes the most sense. I mean, Kenny Pickett would be the most logical one, and he is the one that typically is viewed as the best bet. You know, the quarterback that, you know, when I've asked scouts to sort of rank them, it's typically some version of picket one gap, then take whichever of the next four guys you want from there. So, you know, I think any of them could potentially be in play.

I just think that Ritters, traits make them for Rivera. And yes, I have heard they're interested, but I can't sit here and say, oh, that's definitely the guy they want. One of the things that I would suggest to them for those out there that do listen, you know, to the podcast occasionally, probably listen to Ben's as well. I would suggest that they not market the players that they're really interested in in the draft. That one I would keep to themselves. I wouldn't be telegraphing on, you know, the players that you really like in the draft. This one you keep to themselves.

You don't worry about trying to excite the fan base over Malik Willis or Kenny Pickett. Whatever your plan is, keep it to yourself and maneuver accordingly. It's a little bit different in a trade market for players that you know are going to be traded and everybody knows you're going to be in on, you know, a potential quarterback. it's different than the draft. I wanted to, you said something earlier in this segment that I wanted to follow up on. You said something about, you know, now that Derek Carr is the quarterback in his division, that's clearly number four, and Vegas's chances now to compete in that division have gotten

even more difficult because now Denver is better. That's interesting. I personally would be surprised if Derek Carr got dealt. I would. But then again, I don't think Derek Carr is an elite quarterback. I don't think he's anywhere near in the class of like the Wilson-Rogers-Watson conversation we've been having.

But I do think he's a step above Garoppolo as far as a trade, but I think he's a step to a step and a half below Stafford. That's my own opinion. But I also think you mentioned Matt Ryan. I think that's an interesting one, even though that's not a long-term solution, but they would be a much better team with Matt Ryan at quarterback. Minnesota's got to be thinking in the same way you suggested maybe Vegas is thinking.

With Aaron Rogers back, Kirk Cousins would bring in a haul right now for the Vikings. I'm not saying that this would be Washington's move because Kirk is going to have to commit to signing a contract extension and restructuring it so that the cap hit isn't that big next year. It's $45 million for Minnesota right. right now. And by the way, that would be part of the drawback in a trade is some teams would look at that next year and he'd have to agree to a big time contract extension, which would lower the cap number. But man, with the trade for Wilson, then you look at places like, like you said, Vegas, potentially Atlanta, and Minnesota in particular, where he is a very polarizing figure

in that market as well, just like he was here. And the, and the, haul back for Cousins will never be higher than it could be right now. I don't think they're going to trade them. I think they're going to keep them. I think Kevin O'Connell took the job in part because Cousins was there. But that's another one that could be thrown back into the mix now that Rogers is back in Green Bay. All right. Let me ask you this.

Right now, Russell Wilson's gone. Tom Brady is currently retired. If the 49ers trade Grobolo, we don't know where he'll live. land, but from the 49ers perspective, Trey Lant is effectively a rookie coming in. Isn't there a world where Minnesota is the third best team in the NFC next year?

Well, I mean, obviously the Cowboys and Carliners Rams, Packers, Rams, Packers, Cowboys, yeah, certainly the fourth best team. There is a

world in which they're the fourth best team, no doubt. That's my only thing with that. My sense is that Minnesota's keeping cousins. They obviously have to work out the money, but just having been at the combine and I've been talking to people. That's my sense there. And like I said, this is why if you're Washington,

maybe you do pay up even for a Derek Carl, because if you do get Derek Carl, we can sit here and poke all the holes we want in Washington's roster. There's absolutely a world where there a playoff team at a minimum next year because simply the conference has, losing these other quarterbacks, does change the landscape. I mean, sure, we can take Dallas is better, but, you know, they just lost, they're giving up Mari Cooper, it appears.

Michael Gallup is coming off an injury, so their offense will take a step back. And who knows, the NFL, you know, no NFCE team, right, repeats ever. So, like, I'm not saying this is what I think, but you could talk yourself into it if you're watching and saying, we get their car even, or Matt Ryan, all of a sudden, why not us being one of the playoff teams like for real? Again, that's a different between contending for the Super Bowl, but

yeah, because the NFC I think is that wide open it looks like. Yeah, there's the possibility, though, that Deshawn Watson ends up in the NFC too, so let's not forget that. That's in play as well. And could end up... And if you put Garoppolo on one of these teams,

that could change something. It put Garoppel in Tampa Bay. Maybe they don't have a big drop off. Who knows? Yeah, they're going to have a drop-off with Garoppolo. but Watson to Philadelphia would be, again, I think that would be like the worst case for Washington. All right, March 9th, 2022, your guess on the quarterbacks for Washington when we go to camp in August. Who's on the roster? Yeah, I mean, I think I've had every single time, Trubisky, Heineke, and, you know, I think one time I said a second, like, Ritter in the second round, but mostly I've gone with some sort of Willis at the I had 11.

You know, I don't know. I mean, is Kenny Pickett actually going to be there? If he is, that would be the pretty no-brainer. You know, I still know if Carolina at 6 or Seattle now at 9 would take him. So, I mean, you know, I don't know. I'll say, I know you're not going to hold me to this, but I'm just saying, I guess I'll just say Pickett that he's still there with Malik Willis being the obvious, the other alternate.

So Trubisky, the Pickett-Willis thing, and Heineke, would be my, assumption. I'll say, I think this Tribisky report from Charles Robinson has me thinking, wow, Daibol wants Trubisky. They have not picked up the fifth year option on Jones. The reporting is they're not going to pick up the fifth year option on Daniel Jones. And Daibu's thinking, Trubisky's my guy. And by the way, we don't have a terrible roster either. We could actually make a big jump in this division next year. So, and we have two. And we have two, two first round picks at number five and number seven in the upcoming draft. So I'm going to go Marriota.

I mean, your Bridgewater thing is interesting because of the herney ties. I just don't think Bridgewater is very good. I watched him in Denver last year. And I just saw a guy that, by the way, he's going to get hurt too. He's just, unfortunately, you know, that injury in Minnesota was devastating to a guy that really had a promising career. but he keeps getting banged up since he's been back. I'll go Mario to Heineke and Willis.

Bobby Wagner, what are the chances that they're going to go after him? And what are the chances that Wagner would choose here because there will be choices for him? Sure. I mean, I'd be lying over. I said I knew the full landscape of teams in the middle linebackers. But, yeah, I mean, look, 100%, that's the kind of guy Ron Rivera would want. And I think it makes a ton of sense for them.

I mean, the veteran Mike Linebacker is, you know, the play to me ultimately here. And I do kind of feel like, to be honest, having been at the Combine and talk to people that the Devin Lloyd and the Kobe Dean thing, I think ultimately, you know, before the Combine, a lot of the rankings from the Dane Brewers and Todd McShay's and all in the mock draft are based sort of more on their own personal vibe, what they think of a point. player, but then the reality sets in that teams just don't want to look to draft an off-ball linebacker that high. So I think those guys are probably not really in play at 11, and therefore, you know, you're either drafting a rookie later or signing a vet. And I think they just defensive needs a vet, right? You have all the kids up front.

They need a guy to get on everybody, to be an organizer. I think that's as much what Ron Rivera is talking about. They said last year when David Mayo played, Heather was a judge. different presence there. And it's not like David Mayo is Mike Singletary, but he is an older guy who has, you know, been in the league. And I think having that presence was missed. So I think Bobby Wagner would make a ton of sense for them. And, you know, I don't know to thoroughly know where he, where his level of play is. I have to go check out the tape and things like that. But I think that would make a ton of sense. And, you know, he obviously knows Rivera from having

been around the league. So I think that's an interesting one for sure. Yeah, I think they should be interested in Bobby Wagner. He's only 31 years old. I think the problem is Wagner is going to have a lot of options. And by the way, some of those options could be in the division. Dallas could be a team definitely in the Bobby Wagner market. They restructured Prescott and somebody else yesterday to shave off 20 million of cap hit. I mean, to pair him with Micah Parsons and like Leighton Van deret lookout, you know, Philly could use.

a Wagner on their team. I think there's just going to be a lot of, you know, I was reading something late last night. Baltimore would be interested in pairing him with Patrick Queen, you know, on the inside. I just think there are going to be better situations for Wagner, unfortunately. He'll have a lot of choices and probably end up choosing somewhere else. I mean, he would be a phenomenal ad for Washington and would make so much sense. I just think ultimately he ends up somewhere else. Oh, one last thing, because I don't think we talked about this even off the year. Why do people think, and when I say people, I'm just, it's kind of, it was a vibe I got

after Aaron Rogers said he was staying in Green Bay on this, you know, whatever the contract extension ends up being. Why did I, and maybe you got the same thing, get so many people saying, so now are we going to be in the market for Jordan Love? Have we talked about Jordan Love ever before? We haven't. I, uh, I, uh, I, in, so playing out the long, you know, like I said, I've never really bought into the idea that they would be getting any of the bigger name for whatever the reason. So for me, it's been like, okay, what else is the upside play? And a few weeks ago, I started thinking myself, all right, well, let's, I, if I'm assuming Aaron Rogers is

staying, if I'm Green Bay, I think you got to move on. from Jordan Love or see what at least you can get because now Rogers is your quarterback for the next two or three years that he's not, you know, he's not going anywhere. But by the way, for what it's worth, the people who kept telling me that Green Bay was going to force Rogers out because they drafted Jordan Love was beyond ridiculous. Anybody who said that, and I know a couple people that did, beyond insane. So, I mean, and obviously it's played out that way for a variety of reasons. Also, Jordan Love didn't look great when he played with very, very, the definition of small

sample size. It makes total sense for Green Bay to trade him. Maybe they can only get a mid-round pick at this point because he hasn't done much. But a team should be intrigued by taking a shot. Would you rather spend a fourth-round pick on him than the 11th pick on one of these guys? Maybe. But at the same point, I have no reason to think that Washington would be interested. My sense was as of a few weeks ago that whatever.

But, you know, again, things change quickly. and, you know, again, like to your point of Trubisky, signs of the giant, and you're looking for some sort of an upside play, well, where else is there? Jordan Love would be that type of guy, absolutely, but then it comes down to the evaluation. Does a Green Bay act, or does anybody actually think he's good based on what people have seen?

So that's the question. Yeah. All right. Thanks for doing this. Stand-ing Room Only is Ben's podcast, which you can get anywhere you get a podcast. subscribe to the athletic. It's totally worth it.

It's cheap. Ben's a great writer. I'm telling you, yesterday I was reading primarily athletic writers. There are just so many good writers on the athletic covering these teams as beat reporters, and then there are columns as well. And a lot of guys like Ben basically do both. They report and they write columns. Totally worth it.

And follow, of course, Ben on Twitter at Ben Standing. All right. I will talk to you later on. Appreciate it. Yeah, man. Thanks. See you. The SPN's NFL insider, Adam Schifter.

Adam, how did this deal come about? Linda, they had been working on this deal for quite some time, really, from the time that the two teams had gotten home from the combine. They were able to piece this deal together yesterday. Fox broke the news tonight, and the deal involves, as you mentioned, three number one picks and in number two. And the reason it came together yesterday afternoon, late in the day, is that the, The Cleveland Browns all of a sudden wanted to try to make a deal for that number two pick as well. The Miami Dolphins even inquired about the pick and could not get the deal done because the Rams were able to put together a deal in an agreement with the Washington Redskins

that will be processed on Tuesday that will give the Redskins the second overall pick in the draft and give the Rams a bounty of picks by moving back four slots in the draft. they will have an extra second in this year's draft and then extra ones in each of the next two drafts after this year. What a fascinating story this is and very intriguing and this all involves the Baylor Great Robert Griffin III. Is that what this is about basically? We know Cleveland had an interest

and with the Redskins grabbing this number two pick, does this mean now that their eyes are on taking RG3 number two overall? It means that their eyes are taking whatever, quarterback, the Indianapolis cult don't take at number one. And the widespread assumption throughout the league is that Andrew Luck from Stanford will be the number one overall pick, which would leave Robert Griffin III, going number two to the Washington Redskins.

Now, even if the cults decide to switch gears and change directions and go RG3 at number one, which nobody is expecting, at that point in time, the Redskins would be in position to take Andrew Luck. So this trade has assured the Washington Redskins that they will come out of the draft next month with one of the two potential franchise quarterbacks that they coveted. The Colts are expected to take luck. The Redskins are expected to take RG3, and I think then the Rams will be left with a lot of draft choices to replenish their roster. That was 10 years ago today. Linda Cohn, Adam Schaefter on ESPN, reporting the news that

Washington and the St. Louis Rams had pulled off a blockbuster deal, Washington sending three first round picks and a second round pick to St. Louis for the Rams number two overall selection so that Washington could select one of the top two quarterbacks in that draft, Andrew Luck, were Robert Griffin the third. We all knew then that it was going to be RG3 because luck really was the L way in terms of the evaluation and the Colts were going to take luck. I mean, I remember saying that I prefer luck, but I am okay with Robert Griffin the third. In fact, fact, that's where I want to start with this. I remember my reaction. I was thrilled. I remember getting into a debate on the air with Steve Zabin, who called in during the show I was doing with

Tommy saying, you're in favor of this? And I said, definitely. He said, it's way too much. Three ones in a second for, you know, Robert Griffin III or Andrew Luck. I mean, you can't spend that much. And I said, you have to spend that much. They're in this malaise, which they were at that point. You know, the Zorn years and then 2010 and 2011 with Shanahan. And already, you know, the apathy was starting to build in the fan base. It really started to build, I think, in 2008, 2009. And then there was a lot of excitement with Mike Shanahan and Vinnie Serrato being ousted.

And, you know, the Donovan McNabb trade, which obviously Washington was fleeced on. But those first two years were rough years. Even though I thought they were a competitive team given their talent, they didn't have any quarterback. You know, it was McNabb, it was Grossman, and it was John Beck. They had to get the quarterback, and that was a draft in which the two quarterbacks at the top of the draft were considered can't misses. Luck more so a can't miss, but RG3 evaluated at a very high level. And yeah, there were some reports about what kind of teammate he was, the narcissism, et cetera. I remember, I forget the name of the dude that had that long,

scathing report of the lack of leadership, but whatever, most people thought that Robert Griffin the third had been evaluated at kind of a can't miss level. I remember having this conversation with Mike Shanahan about those days. He was not against the trade at all. He would have been against the trade had he known about the salary cap penalty, the $36 million salary cap penalty. The $36 million salary cap penalty that was coming, you know, a few days later. He would have been against the trade if he had known they were going to have all of that penalty and weren't going to be able to add players and we're going to have to actually shed some salary to get under the cap penalty that they were being hit with by the league that caught them by surprise. And you can thank

primarily John Mara for that. But, you know, you can thank you. You know, Shanahan was not against the trade and was not against drafting Robert Griffin III. You know, he had the warnings that we've talked about many times previously, that he was concerned that Robert Griffin III had never faced adversity, and he wondered how he would deal with adversity when faced with it. And he pointed out the example that in a film session with Robert and his father was in the room as well, they brought up his worst game where he threw multiple. picks. I forget who the opponent was. I think it was Oklahoma State. And Robert and his father

basically fell all over each other, you know, throwing Art Bryles under the bus, saying it was all play calling, that he didn't take any responsibility for it, that that was, you know, a bit of a concern for him. And he also, you know, warned Bruce and Dan that RG3 was not ready from a, you know, the standpoint of being a traditional drop-back passer to play that in the league. And they were going to have to do some stuff offensively to get them onto the field as a rookie. But they were excited about that. And they thought they could take advantage of some things that Kyle was really excited about. Kyle had spent some time with Chris Alt at Nevada,

the innovator who developed the pistol formation with Colin Kaepernick as his quarterback at Nevada. and Kyle had a vision on how RG3 could be used and how it would really be very innovative and pioneering and transformational in the NFL. And they did that. And Robert Griffin the 3rd had, as we know, one of them were exciting rookie seasons in the history of the league.

Won the rookie of the year. They won seven games straight to end the season, made the playoffs. And if he hadn't been hit by Holodi-Nata in that late season game in December against the Ravens at Fed. FedEx Field. It's very possible Washington was in position to make a deep playoff run in 2012. I think they would have beaten Seattle. Hell, they were up 14-0 when he tweaked the knee.

And if he had been healthy, I think they would have had a chance to knock off Seattle and maybe go to Atlanta and win that game. And then, you know, maybe get to an NFC title game against the 49ers that year. I think the 49ers were a better team that year all around. They would have played that game in Candlestick, which they eventually did. Or no, that particular year in 2012. Yeah, 2012 was the year they beat the Packers at home and then lost to the Falcons, or beat the Falcons in the NFC championship game on the road. It was the Alex Smith team the year before that had lost to the Giants in the NFC championship,

Jim Harbaugh's 49ers team. But I think the 49ers were a better team, but I'm not sure the Falcons or the Seahawks were, even though the Seahawks starting quarterback was Russell Wilson. who turned out to be, you know, along with Andrew Luck, the two best quarterbacks out of that draft. And Mike Shanahan's told us many times that if Wilson had been there when they selected Kirk in the fourth round, he would have taken Wilson before Kirk and thought about it in the third round. But ended up taking cousins instead. But that trade, I remember being thrilled, thinking it was the right move, thinking it was their way out, and being excited.

excited about Robert Griffin the third. I'll never forget the first day of rookie minicamp, which came, you know, a month later, three weeks later, whenever it was, after the draft in April or May. And I remember sitting there with a bunch of people, I forget who the people were and I'm like, they've got him lined up in the pistol formation. That's what Nevada runs. They're going to use him as a runner. I never envisioned how they would use him. I never envisioned shock and awe in the opener against New Orleans when they were running zone read and lots of designed runs. I thought that look out, they're going to use him in a lot of the college stuff in the red zone, which by the way, Carolina, with Ron Rivera's the coach,

had really done the previous year with Cam Newton. You had really started to see some of the college stuff with dual threat quarterback play the year before with Cam Newton, but they primarily ran that stuff in the red zone. It wasn't, you know, 15, 20 percent of their offense, which it became with Washington in 2012. That trade, I also remember thinking, you know, it's not really fair to present it as three firsts and a second, because it's really two firsts and a second. Because it's really two firsts in a second because one of the first is essentially a swap for another first and a better first. But that was nitpicky. You know, St. Louis did not make out, you know, ultimately in the draft with all those picks,

which they turned into more picks, you know, the players that ultimately played for them out of that hall, which again, they use those picks to trade and gather more picks. Michael Brockers, Janoris Jenkins, the two best players, really, that came out of that for the Rams. Then it was guys like Isaiah Peed and Rocavious Watkins, and Alec Ogletree was a decent player. Stedman Bailey, Zach Stacey, Greg Robinson, who really, you know, they drafted very high in 2014 with Washington's pick. Second overall. You know, Washington gave up 2012, 2013, and 2014. The last of the first rounders was.

that second overall for Greg Robinson. You know, he started 12 games as a rookie, but, you know, turned out not to be, you know, worth the number two overall pick in the draft. So, you know, the Rams ultimately didn't turn that trade into, you know, a hall of players that would lead to, you know, significant things. Washington was probably smart to take the big swing in that spot. Little did they know that they got a talented guy, but a limited guy and a flawed guy. And that bringing him into an organization with Dan Snyder as the owner was going to be problematic.

Anyway, 10 years ago today, there you go. Anyway, four quick things to finish up the show with. Number one, congrats to Alex Ovechkin, two goals, Last night he ties Yarmir Yager for third on the all-time goals list. Number two, the Caps put out a statement yesterday, monumental sports and entertainment did. It reads as follows, monumental sports and entertainment in the Washington Capitals joined the National Hockey League in condemning the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the loss of innocent life. We urge and hope for a peaceful resolution as quickly as possible. The capitals also stand in full support of our Russian players and their families overseas.

We realize they are being put in a difficult situation and stand by to offer our assistance to them and their families. Closed, quote. That statement may have been a little bit too late for some of you. I'm not going to beat them up for that. I think this was a very insightful statement as to the situation with Alex Ovechkin. and in particular, Alex Ovechkin, out of all the Russian players in the NHL, has been on the spot here because he was an ardent supporter of Vladimir Putin. In 2017, he campaigned for Putin.

He started a social media movement called the Putin team. His Instagram profile featured photos of him posing with Putin. And that's why Ovechkin's been the target of media. But I think the Capitol's statement really tells you the situation, that these Russian players are in, and maybe more so a player like Ovechkin, but probably no different than a guy like Kuznetsov and others around the league that we haven't necessarily heard a lot from. It's very hard for them to comment on this.

They have families in Russia who could be at great risk if they denounce publicly Putin here in the United States. And I think the team did their best to take the pressure off. the players and explain why the players can't come out forcefully against Putin. There's too much risk to loved ones. Anyway, I thought that was an interesting statement. And I think it was in some ways, I guess, for a player like Ovechkin that's done so much for Ted Leonis and this organization, and you could argue, is one.

one of the top three or four athletes, pro sports athletes in the history of this town. And the organization, the capitals are in the position they are with, you know, a rabid fan base and a Stanley Cup because of Alex Ovechkin. I don't know. I think it was the right thing to do by the team. It sort of struck me as I read it as they're really understanding of the situation in it. situation that Ovechkin and Kuznetsov are in. And regardless of Ovechkin's politics or previous politics, this is somebody who's been family to us, and we're going to help them out. We're going to tell everybody why they really can't talk and what their situation is,

and we're going to stand by them. I don't know. Just riffing on that after I read it earlier this morning. Next thing. Virginia Tech better win tonight in the ACC tournament. against Clemson, and it won't be easy. They're a five-point favorite. Clemson has been playing very well recently.

If Virginia Tech loses the game, they're out. They are on the bubble right now. They're listed in the first four out in Lunardi's latest bracketology. Virginia Tech, for you hockey fans that listen to the show, they better win tonight, or they're out. They're not going to the tournament. And they're a good team, and they're a well-coached team. So they better get it done by beating Clemson, and they may have to win another game tomorrow. night. Virginia meantime has to win the ACC tournament. They start that trip if they're going to

make it tonight against Louisville. Last thing real quickly, because it just came across on ESPN, the headline on ESPN.com right now, Giants likely to make run at Tribisky. Jordan Renan, the writer that has the same position that John Kime has for ESPN covering the Giants. I know that we talked about this earlier with Ben, but this is coming from ESPN and Jordan Renan. He says the Giants are expected to make a run at free agent Mitchell Tribisky when the negotiating window opens next week. According to his sources, if Tribisky were to sign with the Giants, it would be with the intention of pushing incumbent Daniel Jones. The idea would appear to be to let the best quarterback win. A key selling point for the Giants is having him reunite with Brian Daibble.

Dayball's strong relationship with Tribisky, because Daibol was the offensive coordinator in Buffalo last year, is a big factor in what New York can offer even more than just the opportunity to start. So there is more on Tribusky to the Giants. Charles Robinson had that report that we read and discussed earlier in the show with Ben. And there is ESPN.com, Jordan Renan, having the same information. Again, worst case for Washington is no Rogers, no Wilson, we already know that. Watson ends up in like Philadelphia. Marriota ends up in, say, Seattle.

Carr stays in Vegas and Tribusky ends up in the division. So the division adds Trubisky and Watson, and Washington goes into next season with Heineke and Pickett and Garrett Gilbert, unless they go out and sign Teddy Bridgewater or Andy Dalton. Heading somewhat in the direction of the worst case for Washington. Okay, that's it for the day back tomorrow.