The Kevin Sheehan Show - What's Wrong With Wentz?

Episode Date: March 10, 2022

Kevin with much more on the Carson Wentz trade today. He had Zak Keefer (covers the Colts for The Athletic) on the show to discuss why Wentz didn't work in Indy. Then it was Sam Monson/Pro Football Focus to discuss Wentz's 2021 season and compare what Washington got with Wentz to others that they may have had a chance to get. Kevin had thoughts on the Landon Collins release as well.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. Two guests on the show today. Zach Kiefer will be on the show. Zach covers the Colts for the athletic.

Zach wrote a column about the Carson Wentz trade. That column started with these two sentences. No, this decision wasn't just about Jacksonville. And it wasn't solely about the way the season ended either. He wrote a column that basically outlined and detailed why the Colts were willing to move on from Carson Wentz a year after trading a first and a third round pick, and it wasn't all about performance. The Jacksonville game for indie fans is a memorable game. They lost to Jacksonville in the season finale is a 15-point favorite in a game that all they had to do was win to get.

into the postseason. Zach Kiefer will be our guest. Sam Monson will be a guest on the show. We've had Sam many times on the show before. Sam, the lead analyst for pro football focus. We'll find out what PFF thought of Carson Wentz's season in Indy, what they're projecting moving forward. And then with Sam, we'll get into kind of comparisons, alternatives that Washington may have had and see what he thinks, you know, Carson Wentz or Mitch Trubisky as an example. We'll do that with several of the potential alternatives that Washington had. None of those were guarantees. And in fact, that may have been the reason they made the move on Wentz.

I want to thank all of you that continue to rate and review the show. It's really helpful. Here are a couple of the reviews on Apple. this one from Vince. She and Tom Cooley have become the fabric of our sports lives. Sheen is the best. There are some great local and national podcasts, but this one is entertaining and finds a way to stay relevant every single day.

Thank you, Vince. This from MC Niles. DC native and sports fan who recently moved to NYC, love the thoughtful and opinionated takes on D.C. in sports particularly love Kevin and Tom together, particularly when they argue an absolute must listen for any D.C. sports fan if you live out of town. And they keep coming. I mean, I'm just reading through a lot of these. This one from Skins 1978, favorite podcast, I tune in daily. only show I have rated and left a review for.

You're welcome, Kevin. Thank you, Skins, 1978. This from Skyman 89. I live in Texas, and this is the closest I can get to my hometown teams. Kevin's great. He tells everything like it is his passion, which he openly admits is less than what it used to be for the Washington commanders is undeniable.

I love the off-topic stories with him and Tom or even Cooley. I listen to this show daily. All of these are really helping. They really are. The ratings, lots of five-star ratings, lots of reviews that are even beyond the one to two sentences that I've asked you for. So it's much appreciated. We still, as a percentage of the overall listening audience,

it's still at like 12%, which is excellent, as I've mentioned before, 12% of the audience rating and reviewing the podcast is a very, very high number. By the way, that's one of the reasons that advertisers like the show, which is a huge help for us. But it still means that 88% of you haven't rated or reviewed the show. So for those of you that haven't done it, if you can find a spare 30 to 60 seconds, rate us five stars and write a quick review on Apple or Spotify, much appreciated. So before we get to our guests on the day, a couple of news items related to the trade. First of all, I just saw this. Ben just tweeted it out moments ago. Ben Standing.

Washington got more than what we thought in return for Carson Wentz. They also got a seventh round pick. So throw the seventh in there. So the deal now stands at Washington received Carson Wentz, and a seventh round pick, and they gave up a third rounder this year, a third rounder next year that could become a second rounder and probably will become a second rounder if Carson Wentz plays at least 70% of the snaps in the upcoming season. And then they also swapped second round picks in the upcoming draft, Washington moving back five spots.

to number 47 overall, and the Colts moving up to Washington's spot at number 42 overall. So at a seventh round pick in terms of the overall compensation package that Washington got back. But still, I still contend, as I did yesterday, for those of you that missed it, we did an emergency podcast. Yeah, a trade for Carson Wentz after we had already published the original podcast, certainly called for an emergency podcast. So if you miss that, it's available. We did two podcasts yesterday. The emergency pod was roughly 40 to 45 minutes.

It was kind of like a quick post game of the trade. I've got additional thoughts, which I'm going to get to here momentarily. But the one piece of news was, you know, the trade compensation formalized here with the seventh round pick, also back to Washington. Also, Diana Rusini reported this morning, and I texted back and forth with Diana, while she was on Mike Greenberg's show, Get Up. Diana comes on the radio show frequently, and she reported that Washington was not the only team bidding for Carson Wentz via the trade route. Now, she did not report what the other teams were, but she was told, and it's been, I think, confirmed by a few people out there that Washington was not necessarily negotiating against themselves, that there were other teams, or at least another team that was also interested in trading for Carson Wentz. Despite the fact that the Colts believed that they were more likely than not going to have to release him,

this speaks to on some level the desperation right now for some teams. I don't know what the other team offered. I don't know who the other teams were. There were reports earlier this morning that Tampa was also bidding for Carson Wentz. Diana Rusini said that that was not true, but I don't know who the other team or teams were. It's comforting on some level to know that Washington wasn't negotiating against themselves, because I think they've done that probably once or ten times over the last 22 years.

Certainly in those first nine, ten years with Vinny and Dan, they were fleece central when it came to trades. People lined up to trade with Washington and to deal with Dan and Vinny. I don't think that was necessarily the case with Bruce Allen. And I would doubt highly that Martin Mayhew and Marty Herney and Ron Rivera can get fleeced in a deal. I don't believe that. But I did think, and I said yesterday, you know, two thirds and really a second and a third more likely than not, five spots back in the second. eating the entirety of the $28 million guaranteed salary for the upcoming season

was to me a deal that Washington lost. You know, again, and I think I emphasized this yesterday. If I didn't, I'll emphasize it today. Clearly, if Carson Wentz turns out to be the Carson Wentz of 2017, and they have stumbled on to their quarterback of the national. next five years? Well, the price looks very inexpensive in hindsight. You know, a second, a third, $28 million, control over him for three years at $26 and $27 million. No risk on a one-year flyer on him because you can get out of this deal at the end of the year. They'll look like geniuses.

But you can only evaluate it today or yesterday in the moment. It just seems to me like a guy that may have been released. And again, if Washington really wanted him, they probably couldn't allow him to get released because they may not have been the team that Carson chose to play for. So they needed to trade for him to ensure that they got him. But I just thought that the price tag,

compensation-wise, the picks, and then taking on all of that salary for next year, when I'm sure the Colts, if they only had one team interested in dealing for him, would have taken some of that salary back, you know, would have been a better deal for Washington. But again, reporting out there, including from Diana, that Washington was not the only team in the hunt for Carson Wentz from a trade standpoint. So, a day later, how do I feel? The same way I felt yesterday.

I'm not a big fan of this deal. I understand that they've upgraded at the position. I agree that they've upgraded at the position. Those of you that don't agree, you're entitled to your own opinion. I think they've upgraded over Taylor Heineke. I think the upside upgrade is much bigger than Heineke. Like if Wence could get back to what we all thought he was in 2016 and you believe that that upside still exists,

well, his upsides much greater than Taylor Heinekees. They upgraded the position. Now, the question is, you know, could they have upgraded it better with a Mitch Trubisky or with a Marcus Marieto or with a James Winston or with an Andy Dalton or with a trade for Garapolo? I don't know. I think all of those things are debatable. I think the real problem here is what I talked about yesterday. And that is the negatives or the concerns associated with this deal. You know, this is a team that's really been, you know, promoting culture change.

Ron's looked for high-quality individuals. Ryan Fitzpatrick last year was a high-quality guy. You know, he didn't want Dwayne in the organization. He wanted a guy like Fitzpatrick. Obviously, they wanted a guy like Stafford. They wanted a guy like Russell Wilson. You know, they signed John Allen to a big contract extension last year. They're hopefully going to sign Terry McClorn to a big contract extension this year.

Well, based on everything that's been said about Carson Wentz in Philadelphia and in Indy, they're not getting that kind of culture guy. They're getting a guy that Ruben Frank from NBC Sports Philadelphia, who was on the radio show this morning, said, isn't a bad guy, but he said he's, you know, everybody's talked about him being, entitled, narcissistic, difficult to coach, difficult for everybody to get along with, or some people to get along with, a guy that kind of always had the answers. And is this the group that can change that?

We'll see. I mean, you know what I think about the coaching staff. I like Washington's coaching staff. I don't think it's elite. I don't think it's top 10, but I think it's a decent coaching staff. I think Scott Turner's done a pretty good job. I don't think Del Rio is a terrible defensive coordinator, and I think Ron Rivera is a solid head coach and a solid leader.

I'm kind of surprised that they went down the path of trading for a guy who was essentially run out of two places at a huge expense to both teams. teams. Philadelphia absorbed the largest salary cap in NFL, salary cap hit in NFL history, 33.8 million when they dealt Carson Wentz to Indianapolis. Indy traded a first and a third for Wentz, and they're out of the Wentz business even before Philadelphia is able to use the first round pick that they acquired from Indy. Major red flags all over Carson Wentz. You can't can't deny that. It's, it's kind of like a pyramid scheme in many ways. When you think about it, it's kind of like a Carson Wentz pyramid scheme. Like Philly realized they couldn't sell the product,

so they went out and recruited Indy to sell the product. Indy realized the product wasn't very good. They've recruited Washington into the business to sell the product. I don't know. I just, his last two employers couldn't wait to get him the hell out of the building, period. That's true. We did a poll this morning on Twitter. You can find it at Kevin Sheen, D.C. Just a simple gauging of the reaction to the deal. 2100 votes in so far. 43% have a mixed reaction to the trade. 41% don't like the trade. And roughly 16% say that they like the trade. That's kind of where I thought it would come in. I thought that it would be an overwhelming, you know, mixed or don't like it reaction. You know, it's not the Carson Wentz from 2016, 2017. You know, that's the bottom line.

And I think everybody, you know, I think everybody's got their eyes wide open. If it didn't work with Frank Reich, the guy that really liked him and really worked well with him, why is it going to work here? Maybe it will. Maybe it'll turn out great. I still want to emphasize that for me, the deal yesterday should not prevent them from drafting a quarterback if they really like a quarterback. At 11, trading back for a quarterback or trading up for a quarterback. They should still be in the market for a long-term solution at quarterback because I would bet you that even they understand that this is a bit of a one-year flyer. You know, it's a flip of the coin. Maybe we can make them work. Nobody else has. But if we don't,

we're out of it after a year. So they should still be thinking about the quarterback of their future. And if they think that quarterback exists in the draft and they can draft him, they should do it. All right, we will get to Sam Monson. We'll get to Zach Kiefer next, actually. But there is breaking news as we are recording this podcast. Not a shocker this week. It has been a busy week. exciting week. I've enjoyed this week. Ben Standing just tweeted out, the commanders are expected to release safety landing Collins after failed contract renegotiation talks, according to a source close to the situation. Washington saves $6.5 million towards the salary cap. They now have roughly $12.4 million in cap space.

A lot less than they had yesterday before the Carson Wentz deal, but you knew that they were not going to bring Landon Collins back on his current deal. But you also knew that they wanted Landon Collins back. I don't know if Landon Collins wanted to come back or not. I don't know if Landon Collins thought he could get a better deal on the open market. He will soon find out. But Washington, if Landon Collins strikes out on the open market, it wouldn't surprise me if Washington still was interested somewhere down the road. I don't know if their offer changed after the Carson Wentz deal in the renegotiation attempt with Landon Collins. But the bottom line is they weren't bringing Landon Collins back at his current salary cap hit. They needed to restructure

that deal, pay him less, have him count less. But I think they wanted him back. But it looks like they are releasing him because they couldn't get a new deal done. So there you go. That is today's breaking news, at least for now. Up next, Zach Kiefer from the Athletic will be my guest, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, our guest now is Zach Kiefer. Zach covers the Colts for the athletic. As I mention all the time with all of our athletic guests, Ben Standing in particular, it's worth it. I'm a subscriber. You guys should be too. The guys that do the NFL beat stuff are great. Zach wrote a very good story on the trade of Carson Wentz to Washington that started.

This decision wasn't just about Jacksonville, meaning the final game of the year where the Colts were 15-point favorites and lost in a game they had to have to get to the postseason. Zach joins us right now. You can follow Zach on Twitter at Z K-E-E-F-E-R. So let's start there and then we'll work our way back to the actual trade and what you thought of it and what you thought about what Indy got back. Why did Indianapolis bail on Carson Wentz after one year? I think it's pretty simple. I think they lost trust in him. And it's not that Carson is a terrible quarterback and it's not that he can't play good football because at times this year he did. It's because they don't believe in him to be the guy. And it was that simple. And he lost he lost the faith of the top decision makers in the organization.

And I think it's very telling that this team moved on from him without a plan B in place. Now, they've got to go find a quarterback, and there's a trade option, there's free agency, there's a draft, I don't have a first round pick. So I think it's very telling that this team moved on with him. They were very determined. They were going to cut him if they didn't make the trade with Washington. So this team was moving on from him. And it wasn't just Jacksonville.

It wasn't just Las Vegas. It wasn't just how the season ended. but that was sort of the punctuation mark on just how there's just this doubt that some inside the organization had that he was the guy that didn't feel like they could trust him and at the end of the day you know the decision was made in January it wasn't made yesterday it wasn't made a week ago it was made in January this guy was not going to come back and and they decided that and it wasn't just about the way it ended it was about they just didn't believe in this guy moving forward Zach, what specifically made them lose trust in him?

Yeah, I will say this. Some of the stuff that I heard was kind of what we heard coming out of Philly, right? That he wasn't the greatest teammate, that he wasn't the greatest leader. Now, I heard both sides of the argument, and I want to make that clear. I don't think this was a unanimous decision within the organization. And I'm throwing players in there as well. I think we know that Jim Mercy wasn't a fan, and I know some players that love playing with Carson Went,

and I know some that weren't the biggest fans, so I don't think there was a universal consensus that he was one thing or he was the other, and I don't think Carson Went is a bad guy by any means. He just wasn't the right fit in some people's eyes. A little bit hard to coach at times, and I've heard that about a lot of quarterbacks. I think he related to some players on the team well,

and some others he wasn't the great. greatest, didn't have the greatest relationship with. Not to say they disliked him, but I just don't think they believed in his skill set at time. And then from a football standpoint, and I want to overlook this, Carson makes the easy things really hard in a football game. He's a really talented quarterback, and he made a lot of great plays for the Colts this year.

He really did, and he deserves credit for that, and he's tough as hell. He really is, I believe that. He came off two ankle sprains in a game against the Rams in week two and made it back to play in week three. I mean, no one thought he was going to do that. That's tough. This guy's tough. That's objectionably true.

But I think some teammates just didn't believe. They just didn't believe. Some did, some didn't. But that's kind of where we got to this point. But so the bottom line here is when you bail after trading a first and a third, a year after the deal, I mean, Philadelphia hasn't even used the first round pick that they got back from the Colts. and he's already gone. I mean, that's a major red flag, is it not?

You know, it's a bigger red flag is the fact that Frank Reich, Frank Reich, the guy who stuck his neck out for Carson Wentz, pushed for this trade a year ago, is moving on from him. And, you know, I think all things considered Frank would probably have kept Carson for a second year in light of the fact that there's nothing great out there to go get. Maybe Jimmy G., I don't know if, I don't know if that's better.

I don't know. I don't have time for that argument. We'll get into that if that's what happened. But, yeah, I mean, they lost the first-round pick, and they don't have an answer. And that's very telling. And I think you can make a case on both sides. One, if you're the Colton, you do not believe this is the guy. You don't run it back in 2022 and just hope for better.

Because, look, this team lost, you know, they were two and five in one-score games last year, and Carson had a lot to do with that. He played well in some. But for the most part, he made the mistakes that cost them big games. And in big moments, he shrunk. it was never more evidence at the end of the season, but that wasn't just it. So I can understand that. The other side of it is, look, this team's been in a hamster wheel for three years,

ever since Andrew Luck retired, and they don't have an answer, and they're going to start their six different week-one starter. They're six in a row come September. Yeah, join the club. Yeah, you guys know. You guys know. It's just, it's like, I talked to somebody from Philadelphia on my radio show this morning, and, you know, he's like, God,

he's got so much talent and he wasn't a bad guy. Some of the same things that you've said. But he's like there's no doubt that there was this sense of entitlement. There was a bit of narcissism. There was a bit of having all the answers and being difficult to coach. And you've sort of touched on some of those things. To me, like those have to be the things. Because he wasn't terrible, as you said, all season long.

You'd give it a run back year if you felt like you felt like you've, could deal with him in the building. Right. I'm with you. And I understand this is kind of the hard thing on Orion because we're not in the locker room, right? Like the media always talks about like leadership. And it's really hard to quantify that, right?

It's really hard to like, it's that intangible that's just really hard to describe. And some of the things you just said, like hard to coach, narcissistic, like literally you could describe those things about Peyton Manning, who I covered here. Like, Peyton was hard to coach. Peyton was an asshole at times. But he was maybe the greatest to ever play the position, so you kind of overlooked that. And that's sort of the thing with quarterbacks is when things go well, you overlook that. And that's how it goes, and they get a ton of credit.

When things go poorly, they don't get overlooked. And Carson got probably a little bit more of the blame than he probably deserved for the way this season ended because I've said for weeks, like, look, this team doesn't have a great receiving court behind Michael Pittman. They don't have anything at tied end. The offensive line fell apart. So it wasn't just on Carson at the end, but I think the end exacerbated some of the unease those in the organization had about the quarterback. And I think it was decided in the next 48 hours after the Jacksonville loss, under no circumstance, were they going to run it back with him.

Yeah, and by the way, you know, I went and watched that Jacksonville game last night. I mean, the Colts clearly gagged the game and Wentz was really tight. But defensively, they couldn't get Jacksonville off the field. I mean, Jacksonville, Trevor Lawrence had one of his better games of the season, and they did offensively against the Colts defense. We were talking to Zach Kiefer. He covers the Colts for the athletics. So two things, and then we'll wrap it up. Number one, what did you think of the deal? You knew, everybody knew the Colts were going to move on.

I mean, they had telegraphed that since the end of the season. So what did you make of the overall deal that the Colts got to? back from D.C.? I thought the Colts got way more than I thought they would. Can I just be honest? I just don't say I didn't think they were going to get anything close to two-thirds. And maybe a second and that third, right? If Wynch

plays a certain number of SNAP, that was impressive on my end. But I don't fault Washington. I understand they were aggressive. They obviously would prefer Russell Wilson over Wendz. But I think Washington's in the same boat. They're tired of running it back. They're trying to, you know, running on this treadmill and not having

an answer. And Carson can play good football. He's going to be up and down. It's going to be a roller custer. You're going to have snaps where three, four seconds into the play, you have this feeling in the back of your mind where something disastrous is going to happen. But the dude can make plays, and he lifted the Colt's offense at times this year, and there's no way to get around that. So with the weapons Washington has, and they have some, there could be some highlights next year. That's for sure. It comes back to what Chris Ballard said after the season, the Colt's gym, in a meeting with Carson, Lance a couple of days after the season, they were talking about the things that held Carson back,

and Ballard told him, just make the layups, man. Just make the layups. And you watch that tape in Jack DeVille. Yeah. He didn't make the layoffs. He tried to force it 30 yards down the field into double coverage. Meanwhile, Jonathan Taylor, who's one of the best five players in football, maybe, is wide open in the flat. And I know it's not as sexy to hit an eight-yard dump, but sometimes you've got to do that to move to change.

And there's a lot more to it than just that. but to answer your question, I was surprised the Colts got what they did, but again, the Colts are in a predicament that's not fun. They've got to fill some of the toughest positions in football. They've got a lot of money to do so, but they don't have a lot of options to fill those needs. So we'll see how it plays out, but it's going to be a fun game to watch next year when the commanders play the Colts. Don't say that. It's hard for us, Stephen.

It's hard for me to even say that name. I almost wooded it. What did you say? I almost butchered commanders. It's kind of difficult for some of us who have been lifelong fans. Anyway, last one, it was reported. Diana Rusini reported it. Others reported that Washington actually, because one of the things I was fearful about

was they were essentially negotiating against themselves, because I agree with you. I think the Colts got the better of the deal for a guy that might have been on the verge of being released. Now, Washington was hesitant because if he had been released, then he may not have come here. You know, to get him here, they almost had to trade something for him. But it's been reported now, I think, more than once, that there was at least another team, if not multiple teams, that were interested in trading for Wentz.

Do you know who those teams were? Could I tell you that? I cannot speak to that. I know the coach were going to release them if they couldn't come to a trade. I heard Washington for the first time was a serious student Wednesday morning. So that was a couple hours before the trade was done. But that was the only team I heard. I can't speak to that.

Yeah, I mean, it's funny because everybody I've talked to as well said they didn't hear anything about Washington and Wentz until the Wilson thing was done. And it was kind of floored a lot of us as well. I guess that's it I mean I guess my last one would just be what is your prediction for Carson Wentz here in D.C. And really, you know, do you think there's a chance he can resurrect a career that's really tanking right now? There's a chance, sure.

But I'm doubtful because if it didn't happen with Frank Reich, I'm not sure it's going to happen with anybody else. And that's not a shot at anybody on the Washington offensive staff. But they have talent. And for the most part, everything was set up for him in Indianapolis. Everything was set up. It's a pretty good offensive line. I'm not calling them a leap the way they finished.

The best running back in football, not named Derek Henry, Michael Pittman is a stud on the end. And I've said that they need some weapons to add. But with Frank Reich, Frank designed a lot of good plays that the Colts didn't capitalize on. And by the end of the year, it was very obvious. What they weren't saying publicly, they were saying with their play calls. And by that, I mean, the. One game was carrying this team, and they were afraid of what the past game might do.

I mean, they weren't calling passes because they were afraid that went with throwing interception. And that's a tough way to call a game. That's a tough way to play. And the Colts became one-dimensional, and the quarterback was holding them back in a set. Maybe that changes in Washington. He's got all the talent. He's going to make some highlight plays. But he's going to make some plays that scratch your head and that really, really frustrate the offense and the fan base.

It's a roller coaster. That's all I can say. It's a roller coaster watching him and covering him because it's so up and down every week. Zach, thanks. I really appreciate it. Take care. Have a good one. Thanks for having me.

Sam Monson from Pro Football Focus will be our guest next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. March is here in the madness has officially begun. It's time for you to shoot your shot and score big on the nonstop action with MyBooky. Predict winners in each round of the MyBooky bracket contest for a chance to win a Bitcoin. a doodle NFT currently valued at over $50,000 and over $100,000 more in cash prizes. Whether you're filling out multiple brackets, betting the national championship winner, or simply looking for player and game props, MyBooky has you covered. Sign up today with MyBooky.

Use my promo code Kevin D.C. to make your first deposit, earning a free entry into the My Bracket contest. Selections for the bracket will officially begin on March 13th and close, March 17th at noon, so make sure you get your deposit in now. Again, my promo code Kevin D.C. to secure that free entry. Bet anything, anytime, anywhere with my bookie. All right, let's bring on to the show Sam Monson. Sam Monson is pro football focus, is lead analyst.

You can follow him on Twitter at PFF underscore Sam. I have always enjoyed my conversations with Sam here on the podcast and the radio show. And I wanted to get your thoughts, and pro football focuses thoughts on the Washington trade for Carson Wentz. So let me just begin there. Give me your overall thoughts. What was your reaction to the trade? Yeah, I mean, I think the first two thoughts I had is, one, it speaks to the desperation that the commanders had at quarterback. You know, I actually quite liked the approach they took last year, which was looking at the landscape,

realizing that they didn't really have a great answer, a quarterback, they didn't have a great opportunity to get one. So they decided to kind of tread water, and they thought that the team was good enough that if you bring in a guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick and he gives you average quarterback play, you're probably in a good spot. You're probably contending for the playoffs and maybe capable of making some noise if Fitzpatrick goes on a run. Now, obviously it didn't work out that way. The defense didn't live up to the way it was playing the year before. Fitzpatrick only lasted a handful of snap before he went down. But I think the process was sound. But one year of that appears to have, you know, shaking them so much that they've just gone out and done something drastic.

And the drastic move they made, I think, is a little bit concerning. And then the second thing it says is it just sort of speaks to how the NFL views this crop of rookie quarterbacks that are about to hit the NFL draft. Yeah, so I think you're on to something there. I think one of my first reactions was this reeks of desperation a little bit, a little bit of panic. They didn't get Russell Wilson. Trebisky all of sudden looks like there's going to be demand for him and maybe a front runner in the Giants. What about the player concerns you, whence? Well, realistically, we've seen, you know, one outstanding season from him back in 2017, and even that season was characterized by a bunch of different data points and aspects to it that screams unsustainable at the time, you know? So immediately you're looking at him and you're saying that 2017 season is not even a realistic ceiling for Carson Wentz.

That's an outlier relative to what you can expect from him, even in a good, optimistic year. Even last season when the Colts traded for him, Frank Reich was talking about getting him back to the 2019 version of himself, not the 2017 version. So I think that is your realistic ceiling for how good Carson Wentz can be, but he hasn't even hit that level for a while now. And, you know, this was, the offensive he was playing in last season with the Colts was a very sort of protected training wheels version of what they won't. wanted to run. They were desperately trying not to create the Carson Wentz implosion that happened in 2020 in Philadelphia, and they weren't able to do it. They did it for most of the year, but

ultimately the wheels did fall off and they fell off at the worst possible time, and it cost Indianapolis a playoff spot. Because when you look at the 27 and 7, you know, TD to interception ratio, if you didn't pay attention to the games, you may have thought that you, you may have thought that Carson Wentz had a decent year last year. I read through some of your ratings on the show yesterday. So just define the kind of year that he had last year with more of your rankings and some of the key numbers like big-time throws and turnover-worthy throws, et cetera. Yeah, I mean, sometimes interceptions just don't tell the story about how often a guy is putting the ball in arms way. And, you know, Carson Wentz's turnover-worthy play total and his

turnover-worthy play rate were much higher than that interception total. I'm not 100% sure what it is for the full season, but somebody was making the case that from, you know, weeks four through 16, Carson went to the top five player. But over that period of time, he had five interceptions and 15 turnover-worthy play. So he simply wasn't being punished the times he was putting the ball in harm's way, at least in the box score. But that's the difference between, you know, grade, a PFF grade where he was ranking, you know, somewhere in the low 20s, and those box score numbers that can be a little bit misleading sometimes. And that's an example of how Frank Reich was doing a good job of trying to protect Carson Went.

He was minimizing the opportunity he had to screw it up and maximizing the overall production of the offense, but Wenz himself was not the driving force there. Yeah, he had 18 per PFF, 17th in the league, turnover-worthy throws. Heineke had 27, which was the fourth most of the 38, I think it was 38 quarterbacks that you guys ranked for the year. How much do you think they upgraded at quarterback with the trade? Forget about the compensation and the contract at this point. pure production potential for 2022.

How much did they upgrade the position? Over Taylor Heineke, I think they upgraded, you know, significantly. I think Wendt is a better quarterback than what we saw last season from Taylor Heineke. You can make the argument that Heineke underachieved last season relative to what we were expecting from him, and that would probably change that calculation a little bit. But based off what we saw last year, even last year's version. of Wentz, I think, is a better player than Taylor Heineke and a notable upgrade.

But I think the real key is the opportunity cost, right? It's what were the alternatives? What else could you have got other than Carson Wentz? And as he said, they didn't get the Russell Wilson thing. They missed out on that deal. But I think there are comparable quarterbacks available to Carson Wentz that you could have had without having to go up draft picks without having to pay them $28 million a year this season. there's also the prospect that you still could have found a better quarterback than Carson

went next season for potentially less outlay in terms of draft picks or salary. But he will be a better player for than Tanner Heineke would have been. All right. Perfect segue, because that's where I was going next, and that is comparing some of the alternatives. And understanding that, you know, in Washington situation, not everybody wants to come here, Sam, you know, it's not the number one destination for players with choices. And you can draft players and they don't have a choice. And then you can trade for players that don't have no trade clauses and they don't have a choice.

And that's ultimately what they did. But all things being equal with respect to sort of production potential, would you have considered Garoppolo to have been a better move than Wentz? I think Garoppolo is probably a comparable move. I don't love that one either. I think he maybe give you a slightly better baseline than Carson Wentz, but he comes with his own different issues in terms of an injury history, and that kind of thing that's very concerning.

Not that Wentz has a complete clean slate in that regard either, but Jimmy Garoppolo's injury history is very extensive to the point where you pretty much have to bake in the idea that he's not going to be playing for a couple of games in any given season. The guy I keep coming back to is James Winston. because the league basically gave up on James Winston. For very similar reasons that Carson Wentz is now the punchline to a lot of jokes on Twitter and that kind of thing because he makes way too many bone-ed of mistakes.

He makes more mistakes and he can make up for with his good throws, which are spectacular when he makes them. But the difference being, you know, Carson Wentz is still, people are still rolling the dice on him as a viable starting quarterback. James Winston basically couldn't get a job the last time he hit free eight. agency had to sign with New Orleans for like a million dollars just to hang around for a year and be first in line to try and replace Drew Reeves when he eventually retired. Eventually did win that starting job, started seven games or whatever it was before getting hurt.

But James Winston has almost zero marketplace right now, and I don't know that he's any different than Carson Went in terms of the overall level of play you're going to get from him. So you bring up a good point that it's not as easy as you make. make it seem in terms of somebody has to want to go to Washington, right? But James Winston is a guy that couldn't buy a starting job a couple of years ago. I don't think we're in a dramatically different place this time around than we were then, and he wouldn't have cost $28 million. He probably gives you the same level of play as Carson Wentz. He might even have a higher upside than Carson Wentz, and he doesn't cost you any draft picks.

You know, it's funny because for whatever reason, I've always felt like James Winston is going to have a second act to his career. I just think he's tremendously talented. And I think part of it for me, Sam, is the reaction that the Tampa fan base, the Tampa media, the Tampa, his Tampa teammates, his Tampa coaches gave him after they signed Brady. The things they said about him were actually somewhat surprising based on the narrative. He was very much beloved in Tampa, very much looked up to as kind of a leader. And I think he's got so much talent. And it sounds to me like you do too.

So why didn't it work with Sean Payton? And why is there right now, as we're discussing him, very little market for him? Well, firstly, I'm not sure we know yet if it was going to work with Sean Payton. You know, he was playing, I don't know that he was playing dramatically better over the first few games before he got injured. but his production was certainly different. Like he had that Carson-Went's thing of a very flattering touchdown interception ratio. He was producing for the Saints, and this was basically without any wide receivers whatsoever. So I think there's actually a reasonable chance that Sean Peyton could have gotten something

much more impressive out of James Winston than the narrative was following that Tampa Bay career. But I think ultimately similar to Carson Wentz, his flaws are, inherent and they're unavoidable and they're probably not going to go away. He just makes too many mistakes. And if you look at James Winston's kind of profile of PFF throughout his career, he's always right up at the top of the NFL in terms of percentage of positively graded plays. Just how often he's making a positively graded throw, always right up there, like top 1, 2, 3, you know, not just top 10, top 5, right up at the sharp end. but he's also number one or number two in terms of percentage of negatively graded

throws. So there's nobody that has a wider distribution of plays good and bad than James Winston. And ultimately, he just makes too many of those bad ones to offset the good ones that he makes. All right. Back to some of the comparisons of what they could have done. Mitch Trubisky or Carson Wentz. Forget that Trubisky was a free agent. You wouldn't have had to give up draft compensation.

would have been a lot cheaper, more likely than not, although maybe there's a multi-year deal for eight figures that is now sort of seems to be materializing for him. But player for player, Trubisky or Wentz? I think Wens is probably the better player, but I am intrigued at the prospect of a Mitch Trubisky reclamation project, and in particular, if he goes to the Giants with Brian Dayball there as his head coach, you obviously just coached him in Buffalo.

I think that would be, it's an endorsement, right? There's no way Brian Debo makes that move unless he believed in what he saw from Trubisky over the last year. And we know the kind of the magic that DeBall has just worked with Josh Allen. I think that would certainly make it a lot more interesting. If the market for Trubisky materializes and he goes somewhere other than New York, I'm a little bit less intrigued by it. What about Marietta or Wentz? So again, it's the last time we saw Mario da starting, he was bad enough that he basically played his way to the bench, and they threw in Ryan Tannahill and the rest, as they say, is history.

So Mario, by the end of that time, starting in Tennessee, was a disaster, and I think you would take Carson Wentz now over that version of Marioita. But again, the narrative on Marioita now is that some time on the bench has been a reset to him. It's allowed him to reboot. and get back to where he was when he was the number two overall pick in the draft and a talented prospect. So it's about where you project him. And I'm a little bit, again, more intrigued by the upside of Mariotta after that time to reboot and to reset himself than I am of Carson Wendz coming off the season that he just came off. I'm giving you names of people that we've been discussing before yesterday's resolution to the QB1 answer here in D.C. And there's one more, and that's Teddy Bridgewater.

Yeah, again, so Teddy Bridgewater, I think, is probably playing at a similar level to Carson Wentz right now, but at least Wentz brings that upside, right? Teddy Bridgewater's problem throughout his NFL career has been a lack of impact plays and field flipping big time throws down the field. Wents at least still has those, and it's a case of whether you can get the right ratio between those and the negatives, but Bridgewater is just too conservative, too middle of the run,

road doesn't bring enough big throws to the table. So I think I would take Wence over Bridgewater independent of what it costs to get them. Am I missing anybody that you, other than the James Winston, which you went right to, am I missing anybody that you think would have been a better option than Wence? I mean, honestly, again, factoring in the cost, I'd be intrigued about talking Ryan Fitzpatrick back for one last go-around. The plan last year, I don't think. was crazy and obviously Fitzpatrick got hurt and who knows if he wants to play anymore at this stage. But I don't think that was a crazy idea or a nutty suggestion given the play that he'd

been showing the last couple of years. And then of course, there's the draft. So let's talk about the draft. Do you think they still should be interested in drafting a quarterback? I think it's a strange year for quarterbacks in that the NFL does not love this group whatsoever. And there's probably five guys in a tier, maybe three of which will go in the first round. But because the NFL doesn't like them, maybe one or two go in the top ten, but the rest are going to slide, I think. And if they start to slide, it's going to be, it's going to depend on where you rank these guys. And I think every team is going to have a different ranking on them. And if one of the guys that you think is the best or the second best quarterback in

this draft slides down the first round, absolutely jump on them and see if you're right, see if your ranking is correct, and the rest of the league is too low on these guys. And it's not. Most of it isn't because they don't think they have tools or the upside or any kind of potential. It's just that we haven't seen them all put it together. And that scares teams. Who do you like in the draft?

Who do you consider to be a guy that would be worthy of taking a top half of the league pick like Washington has because he's got a big ceiling? I think Malik Willis is the most obvious one, but the closer we get to the draft, the more it sounds like he's the one that's going to go high. The teams are going to talk themselves into his ceiling and his potential. His arm is absolutely incredible. He's got a massive floor in terms of what he can do, running the football on the ground, and then teams are going to try and work out the rest, you know, on the fly as they go.

So I think Malik Willis from Liberty is the guy that's going to go the top of these quarterbacks. But then the two, I think, that are intriguing are Kenny Pickett from Pitt, who's probably going to slide because of his very small hands and these kinds of things. But he's the one guy coming into this draft off the back of a good year, off the back of a year that actually improved his draft stock relative to what it was a year ago. And then Desmond Ritter from Cincinnati is, I think, another interesting one, because he was a guy who, when you looked at his tape, you got the feeling of, I mean, everything is good, but nothing is great. And then he goes to the combine and actually post some pretty spectacular workout numbers.

And all of a sudden you're saying, well, maybe that athleticism in the arm is a lot better than we thought it was. And, you know, we can potentially move him a little bit higher up the board based off him showing up better athletically than we thought. So I think either of those guys would be worth that kind of pick. All right. Two more for Sam Monson from Pro Football Focus. What positions in free agency, which starts, you know, a week from today, are really strong, which are weak, and who do you think Washington should target? I think the offensive line is pretty strong. Not necessarily right at the top.

There's a couple of guys that are sort of potential stars on the interior, on a tackle as well. But the depth in offensive line, I think is pretty spectacular. And one of the things that I think Washington absolutely has to do now that we've got Carson Wentz is make sure that the offensive line stays as good as it was a year ago. So if they're not going to pay Brandon Shurf, then I would go into free agency and find a capable starting right guard. And there's a few of them around, guys like Alex Kappa from Tampa Bay. Just grab somebody that is not going to be a liability. And then, you know, if you need to go into the draft and get some depth lower down, fine.

but don't put yourself in a position where, you know, a second round guard has to come in and start and be good from day one because it's just adding risk that you don't need into the bargain. And, you know, obviously, quarterback is not a strength, and that's why they went after a guy like Carson Wentz. I think generally edge rusher is not a massive strength either, an interior defensive line. Those are positions where Washington is pretty strong. Last one for Sam Monson from Pro Football Focus.

Sam, it's been a busy week, obviously, with Wilson, with Rogers, with Wentz yesterday. Give me the next breaking news NFL story. Yeah, I mean, I think the next dominole to fall has to be Jimmy Garoppolo now, and the Colts make an awful lot of sense, given the position. They just put themselves in. The only other guy that's potentially out there, if that happens and teams get desperate enough, I think it's Kirk Cousins. You know, if Carolina starts looking at the landscape and realizes they're the team standing there when the music stopped,

they might have to make a move that aggressive and go after Kirk Cousins. Do you really think Minnesota with COC coming in is going to trade Cousins? I don't think they necessarily want to, but if Carolina phones them up and says number six overall is on the table and we'll take that contract off your hands, I think they absolutely would. Sam, great as always. Really appreciate the time. Hope you're well. well. Thanks, guys. Take it easy. All right. That's it for the day. Thanks to Sam. Thanks to Zach Kiefer. Back tomorrow.