The Kevin Sheehan Show - Which Redskin Exec Do You Trust?

Episode Date: April 11, 2019

Which Redskin front office exec or coach do you trust as the final voice on personnel? Kevin and Thom answer/discuss. Scott Van Pelt called in from Augusta. ESPN Senior Hockey Writer Greg Wyshynski was a guest talking Caps-Carolina and the rest of the NHL playoffs. Also on the show, Dirk or Wade? Some Nats and NBA playoff talk too. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. Yep, Tommy's here today. Aaron is here. This show is presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com and tell them that we told you to call. Scott Van Pelt from Augusta coming up shortly, Greg Wasinski, who covers the NHL for ESP. end coming up as well. We've got a couple of things that we want to get to here in the open, including a Redskins question that Tommy has for me and himself, which we will try to answer. Nat's rolled last night. I mean, they've gotten a little bit of offense here, and not only that, Harper was over in the game. Yeah, I mean, you've got to love what you're seeing from Juan Soto and Victor Roeweis. I mean, there's a lot of reasons to love that.

For one thing, they seem to be having so much genuine fun. when they play. I mean, the emotions that they're showing are contagious. And the fact is that for the next five to six years, they're here. They're not going anywhere. That's your future right there. So there's a lot of love in that.

But again, you know, six and five is better than a collapse. You know, winning the series against the Mets and the Phillies is better than losing it. But they lost at least two games early in the season. that they could have won if it wasn't for base running mistakes and errors that had nothing to do with the bullpen. And if they look back on this season and they wind up two games short in the division to the Phillies, the Mets or the Braves. Really? You're going to look back to April? You should. You should because, again, they guarantee there are going to be a few more that they should have won that they don't. But they're playing a 55 game series of season.

a lot of games against those teams. Okay. That's the season that they need to pay attention to. We haven't mentioned, and not that you weren't going to get to it here, but Trevor Rosenthal finally got his first outs, but he came in. I mean, like, I'm wondering, when you come into the ninth inning with a 15-0-0 lead, and all they want is just you to get some people out for the first time all year, how much, there was no game pressure in that moment, clearly, because he wasn't going to be allowed to give up.

16 runs in the ninth inning. But he had to just feel like, I got to get somebody out. Everybody else has played and pitched great tonight. And then Tommy, he walks three people and gives up the only earned run of the night. I know. I know.

Look, my idea would have been to have sent him out of town and let him work this out someplace else, but they can't just do that. They need his permission to do that. And I don't know if they've asked him even, if that's what he would want to do. But they have...

What do you mean they need his permission? They could say, well, if you don't do it, you're out of here. Well, they could do that, but they're not going to do that because he's throwing a hundred miles an hour. I know. I told you that. Last week, he got some bad, you know, bad call. So you don't get rid of guys who can throw the ball 100 miles an hour. You just keep on and hope them that they can find the plate.

I would rather he'd find that plate at Harrisburg than in Washington, but that doesn't seem to be the way they're going to do it for whatever reason. and if it's a control thing and he had a little bit better control last night that he had in the past that will come around he'll get that again it's not a physical thing if it's a control thing

arguably that's the last thing that comes into play when you're coming back from Tommy John surgery so he could look let's do a glass half full thing he could be lights out at some point this season he could be I mean because because when I saw him in spring training, I said he was unhittable. When a scout saw him this offseason convincing the Nats to sign him,

that scout said he was unhittable. Well, he's been unhittable mostly because he can't throw the ball over the plate. He's been very walkable as a pitcher. Once he gets those walks out of the way, he may be unhittable. The NHL playoffs are underway, and Tampa lost game one, blowing a three-nothing lead to Columbus. the team that beat the caps in their first two games in Washington last year in the first round. We're going to have Greg Wyshinsky on a little bit later on,

and we'll start off by asking him about Tampa's first game one loss, because that is the team that is really the favorite to win this whole thing. You know, I love Columbus's coach John Tortorella because he is so... You see the pregame? Yeah, he is such a lunatic. He's nuts. And so interesting and so fun to have a round. in the postseason.

So he always makes life a little bit more interesting, if not maddening. I did turn on the Islanders-Pens game for the very beginning of it, and that arena was unbelievable. That's an insane asylum. You could feel that thing coming through the television, and this was the first game one at home. The first time the Islanders have had home ice advantage in any series since 8788. Wow.

That's how long it's been. That's over 20 years. I know. Barry Trots must be a god on the island these days. Must be. Yeah. The Caps opened tonight with Carolina in game one.

We will talk to Greg about that. I will be there for that game. Good for you. You can read my column in the Washington Times. I wrote about the locker room atmosphere going into this series, and I'll be covering the game and posting on the web as well tonight, Washington Times. The Lockerroom.

atmosphere, let me guess that you wrote about that they don't have to face the feeling. What's the number one question we would ask each other or ask a guy like Greg Wyshinsky or Joe B before every playoff series or every postseason started except for this one? How can the caps overcome their annual collapse? Where will it go wrong, basically? Where and how and why will it go wrong? Yeah, and when. And then nobody felt that more than the players.

Well, it's basically. Because they've got the monkey off their back. Yeah, basically my column starts out saying the coffee should taste a little sweeter in the locker room this year. The skates should be a little looser. Everything should feel better because they know what they've done. And they own up to it. They don't run away from it with cliches by saying, well, last year was last year. This is a whole new season.

They say you'd have to be a fool not to write. recognized. Trots in the GM talked about how the building, remember they urged fans that if you had that moment of getting down at home, you know, we feel it when you're feeling it. Like, please don't feel angst-ridden, be more positive. Like they were really looking for help. They were desperate for it. Yet they overcame all of those. And there were multiple opportunities to hold last year. And they didn't do it. Yes, there were. So they recognize that. They acknowledge that they should feel. feel different, only human nature to feel different, but like I point out in my column, you know, the randomness of postseason hockey could make those good feelings just

a distant memory. You always have to keep that in mind. I mean, I don't think they're going to lose to Carolina. Carolina, and they dominated Carolina during the season. They beat them, I think, in the four games that they played. And this would be a far

worse collapse than losing to eighth seed Montreal when they were the President's Cup winners that year. I don't see them. I don't see that happening. I think they're going to dominate the hurricanes in the series. I think what happened last year makes it, you know, all house money. It's a house money situation.

But I also think because of what you said, and I agree with you, that they will play more loosely, I think they're the most dangerous team in this postseason. Like, it's not going to surprise me if they win a cup. here. You know, remember last year, I think you and I did this together. I forget if we did it together with somebody else, but there was, for me, the Ovechkin comp was Elway. You know, arguably the greatest at his position for a long period of time that never was able to win a title. And it was different than Barclay and Ewing to a certain degree. Elway, because it was late in his career, and it was getting late in Ovechkin's career, Elway finally got it. And by the way, when you

least expected it. You know, they made that run in 98. They ended up beating a favored Packers team. They were a nine and a half point underdog in that Super Bowl. And it was mostly Terrell Davis, which is different from what the caps did because Ovechkin was a massive part of it. Yes. But once he got over it, it's like they won it the next year too. Yeah. You know? Look, they're capable of doing it. A lot of it will depend on last year's postseason hero, uh, uh, Kuznetsov. Um, you know, he didn't have the regular season, I think everyone thought was coming following his remarkable postseason performance, but he just may be a postseason guy.

We'll find out if Kuznetsov and Ovechkin are playing at their at their playoff peak, the capitals are going to be awfully tough to stop as far as scoring. Yeah, I'm looking, look, it's random this postseason. And the caps have a lot of different ways to score. They have a lot of offensive firepower on that team. Agreed. one year ago today, I was at Augusta for the first time, and we're going to have Scott on from August and we'll talk a lot of golf with him. But I don't know that I've ever told you the story.

Did I tell you about the story where Jason Day, his first tee shot on number one last year, hit me? No, you didn't. I didn't tell you that. So a year ago today, I'm down the first fair way. There was that period where you weren't talking to me. Well, that's not true. Sometimes you weren't available. Not as much as you are now that we're working together.

You took me a few days to be able to reach you during those couple of years. We were not working together. But a year ago, at Augusta, which was spectacular, that was a bucket list item for me to go to the Masters. And I'm down fairway number one, and Jason Days on the T-box, and I hear incoming, I couldn't, we were so far away from the T-box, so far down the fairway, and I didn't have binoculars. I didn't care one way or the other. But I heard the incoming, and I just turned, and the ball hit the ground, and nailed the me right in the knee, right in the knee and bounce Tommy right behind a tree. Really?

Yeah. He had no shot. And everybody's like, dude, you got to move out of the way. Now he's behind the tree. I'm like, are you serious? Did you get yelled at? Everybody was joking. It was more, it was very tongue in cheek.

But a couple of guys were like, dude, you got to, we said incoming, you got to move. Now he's got no shot from behind the tree. I'm like, oh, whatever. He gets up to it. He looks at it. And he's like, ah, he had no shot. So he had to chip sideways through the fairway. So he chipped sideways through the fairway, and the chip landed in somebody's beer cup.

They were holding their beer in their hand, and the ball landed in the cup. And that became, it went viral on social media. The guy, by the way, he walked over, picked the ball up out of the cup, and then gave him some, you know, autographed a glove and gave it to him. I didn't ask for it. Apparently, that's the deal if you get hit or if there's some situation. They'll give you a glove, sign glove. I don't want to sign glove.

I don't need his glove. And I didn't ask for it. And other people were asking for it, but he just didn't really pay attention. But the golf ball in the cup filled with beer went viral. So you got upstaged. The only reason it was there is because of what happened on this shot before. forgot about you within one shot. Within 30 seconds. Within one shot.

It's funny because the next day or the next week when I got back, Cooley said, you're lying about the shot hitting your knee. I'm like, what are you talking about? He goes, that shot landed in a beer cup and I saw the guy. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about because I'm at the tournament. I had not seen this video thing about Jason Day's second shot. On the first one, I go, Chris, I'm telling you to God's honest truth. I'm not lying.

He's like, here it is. And he shows it to me. And I said, that's the second shot. The first shot hit my leg. He was chipping sideways because it had hit my leg and landed behind the tree. And then, anyway. This is like the second guy getting the credit for walking on the moon and said, Neil Armstrong.

I was Armstrong. Yes. Anyway, I am very much looking forward. I know you couldn't care less about this, I really couldn't. You're in a pool, aren't you? I'm in golf pool year-round, but I'm so into the majors, and I'll be watching this today tomorrow, Saturday.

Sunday. I'll watch the game tonight. It'll be on after the golf. Watch the hockey. And then we've got NBA playoffs this weekend. The NBA playoff field is that. You were going to ask me a question. No, I wasn't going to ask you a question.

What was the question? I wasn't going to ask you a question. Now you don't want to ask the question. No, I was just going to say I'd rather bet on a quilting beat and bet on a golf tournament. It's not, you're not really. It's just part of a pool you pick players, and it's a year-long thing. Anyway. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Do you have anything left on your bucket list? Yeah. What? One thing. Duke Carolina at Cameron Indoor. Okay. I got a couple college football venues I'd like to go see. I've not been to a Notre Dame game in South Bend.

That's on the list. Okay. For whatever reason, I think when I was betting horses, when I was much younger, my friend Mike and I went to the track all the time. I've told you the stories about that, that the derby was definitely on my list. But I never made it to a Kentucky Derby. I've been to the Preakness a bunch. It's still worth it.

It's still worth it. Zero interest in the Indy 500, zero interest. Have you ever been to that? No, I've never been to that. What's on your bucket list? You've been to both Olympics, even though you didn't really go to anything when you were in Sydney. That's not true. That's not true.

It's just one of them. He wrote a column from a restaurant and a bar. A bar stool. That was the opening ceremony I skipped. You acted like you were there, though, didn't you? I didn't act like I was there. You wrote like you were there. You know, I can't think of anything on a bucket list, a place on a bucket list is, this is remarkable.

I've never been to Dodger Stadium. Really? Yeah, people are shocked at that. You know what, it's actually, it's not that impressive. Like, it's, when you're in there, you realize, but it's old and it's, I went to Dodger Stadium. Now, this is years ago when I was traveling to the West Coast a lot, not for this business, but for another. one. But I, you know, I told you, I went to, I, I, I commuted from here to Boston for a year and a half. This was in early 2000s. I went to Fenway like 25 times.

I've been to Fenway a lot. Yeah. And look, I, I loved it. I, I love Fenway too. I'm very lucky that I've covered so many great events, Super Bowls, NBA finals, Stanley Cups, heavyweight title fights. Is Dodger Stadium on your list? Dodgers Stadium might be the only thing on my list. What about Wrigley? I've never been to Wrigley. I've been to Wrigley. I don't like it as much as Fenway.

I like Fenway more. But, you know, maybe it's the idea of the Brooklyn Dodgers keeping me away from Dodgers. Maybe that's it. You've been to both Olympics, winter and summer, right? Yes, I have. What was the Winter Olympics you went to, Salt Lake? It was Nagano. I've been to Nagano and Salt Lake.

Okay. But the first one was Japan. And then the summer you were in Sydney? Were you in L.A.? No, no. No. No. No.

No. The only summer Olympics I did was, Sydney thing they wouldn't let you back? Well, I'm just saying that Sydney Olympics for the media were the greatest Olympics ever. I mean, because, I mean, the one thing, the exchange rate for money made it like play money. I mean, it was unbelievable. People were trying to spend their expense accounts in the last week of the Olympics because everything was so cheap. And, you know, in Sydney, they're world-class partiers.

And what else? They love Americans. They really do. So that was the Olympics to beat all. Nothing was going to compare to that. My brother-in-law and sister-in-law lived in Sydney and we went over there. The only problem with that is the length of trip, but it is awesome when you get there. Well, you know my length of trip story.

I think I do. Yeah, basically I convinced the PR guy at, I think it was Qantas, to put me on a wait list for first class. I think you've told me the story. And I flew back and forth, first class, even though I paid coach. In fact, when I flew over there, they had these planes, these double-decker planes. I had the whole second deck of first class to myself. Did you really on that trip? And that is a long trip.

Anyway, that was, so we'll talk Masters with Scott. You know, the NBA playoffs, I think it's in part because the Wizards aren't in. And I, you know, I've enjoyed the years here recently when they've been in the postseason. I've gotten much more excited about it. There's one series I'm actually going to watch. OKC got a great draw here as the six seed, and they got Portland as the three, rather than having to face Houston.

Now you've got a Golden State Houston more likely than not semi-final series out West, whereas now OKC's got a chance against Portland and then potentially Denver to get to the Western Conference finals. I'd like to see Oklahoma City Golden State. It's one thing I'm rooting for. None of the East, I mean, I guess I'm going to be interested to see what Milwaukee can do. And Tenacompo, how far he can go.

These finals, they do nothing for me. Absolutely nothing. It's really sad. I mean, I'm very sad about my feelings about the NBA, because I didn't love any sport more than I loved the NBA. I know. And it's becoming a Kardashian side show. Did you see last night the Dwayne,

Wade finale in Brooklyn with LeBron and Carmelo? No, no, God. Here's a question for you. They all love each other and they're all great. Here's a question for you, because what we've seen in the last two nights with Dirk and Wade. Dirk or Wade, which one? Oh, Dirk. Definitely, Dirk.

Come on. Nobody did. Very few guys, you know, it's funny. A guy just went into the Hall of Fame who did it before Dirk, and that was Jack Sigma. Basically, the first big guy. Did Cigma just get into the Hall of Fame? He just got in the Hall of Fame? Tommy, he wasn't a Hall of Fame player.

Well, because of his position as a big offensive center. He was an offensive center, but so was Lambeer. Well, not like, not like Sigma. I mean, he had a move that Lambeer wasn't in the same offensive class. He was a good shooter. Lambeer was a good shooter. I know. I meant Lambeer was a good shooter, but he didn't have the same moves.

Sigma had that set shot. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so I think Sigma got in more for basically his place in the transition of the game, as much as anything, but Dirk did stuff that we'd never seen before anyone that size do. And

look, I'd take either one, but of the two, if I was building a team, I'd want Dirk. Yeah, I'm not minimizing Dwayne Wade. Dwayne Wade's a lock first ballot Hall of Famer as well, but, you know, in years past when we've done, you know, where would he fall and remember

the big thing where I told you Dr. J's overrated. Yeah. Coach Thompson came in and scolded me for 20 minutes. But, you know, if you were to put together, you know, a top 20 list of the greatest NBA players of all time, I think Dirk's on that list. I don't think Dwayne Wade's on that list. I'm not saying Dwayne's far from that list, but Dirk's ahead of Wade. I agree. And, you know, the title that he won in 2011, when they beat, you know, the heat. And LeBron, that was when he was hiding in corners and he had a major anxiety issue going on in those NBA finals. but, you know, Tyson Chandler was huge for that team, but Dirk carried that team. Yeah.

And Wade had Shaq in 2006, and he was brilliant in 2006, and then was brilliant at times with LeBron, too. I'm not going to minimize his contribution to those title teams. They were massive, but Dirk, you know, carried Dallas. I agree with everything you're saying. I just don't have the same juice for the NBA playoffs like I used to. Maybe once they start, I'll get more into it. All right. Ask me the Redskins question you asked me before the show started.

Well, there's so much speculation about what they're going to, how they're going to choose when it comes to their player development challenges facing them. The most obvious is quarterback. But if they don't, if they make a trade for a quarterback, who would they draft then with the 15th pick? And it made me think, you know, my go-to move is, you know, that it really doesn't matter who they pick. But in that building,

you know, part of the debate has been how much influences Jay Gruden have in the decision-making and personnel. Does he have less than he used to? Does he have more than he used to? He made it clear in his post-season press conference last year that they need to be on the same page when it comes to personnel issues.

So of this murderer's row of brilliant, a brilliant talent, evaluators. Let's see. I'm going to include Dan Snyder in this. Dan Snyder, Bruce Allen,

Doug Williams, Jay Gruden, Kyle Smith. Kyle Smith. Eric Schaefer, Eric Schaefer. Those six, if you could pick

the one that you would trust the most to select the talent for this team, to be the final arbitrator as to who they would pick. and it doesn't necessarily mean you think he's good at it.

He could be the least of all the evils. Which one of those group, you can only pick one, is going to be saying, is the final decision-maker in town? And I have to pick one? You have to pick one. I can't trade? No, no, you can't trade. Because there's no one to trade to, because no one wants to come here.

I love this question, because with my answer, I'm going to give some insight here. I don't think it's necessarily a revelation. And I think you're going to know what I'm talking about, but I think some people out there will hear this and not have really felt this way about this particular person. Jay Gruden would be my first choice in terms of, I think he's probably got the best talent evaluating I. But my concern with Jay is whether or not he'd really put in the work. You know, I don't think Bruce would admit that Jay's got the best talent evaluating eye, but I think others,

in the organization would say that, but I think they also might say the concern would be, will he do the legwork that must be done? So you think Jay's lazy? I think that Jay, you know, might prefer to be out playing golf and drinking some beers rather than watching 10 games of a player rather than, you know, a cursory, you know, one or two to say, hey, that guy, that's my guy right there. You told me to watch some games. I watched the one game last year he had against Texas Tech, that's my guy. Rather than doing what, you know, true full-time talent evaluating people do, which is they put in a lot of work.

It's a grind this business. Like a pro-a guy like Kyle Smith probably does. Yeah, Jay, Jay loves, you know, I think that there's a lot of, give me a game to watch. I don't want to watch any more in that. I got, I got golf tomorrow. It's a beautiful day. I'm going to drink some beers. We're going to be good.

I'm not saying that would be his answer. I'm saying that's probably what he would end up doing. So I think Jay has the best talent evaluating eye. You know who said that recently again for like the second or third time with Scott McLuhan on John Kimes' podcast? He actually said about Jay Gruden on Kimes' podcast, Jay's the best talent evaluator of any coach he's been around. Pete Carroll, Holmgren, etc.

So I do think that Jay would be my. selection, but I'm telling you what my concern would be. But the bottom line is, is Jay coming in with a half-hearted effort? Would be better than Bruce, for sure. Would be better than Eric, definitely. I think, yes, would be better than Doug. Kyle Smith, you know, a lot of people like Kyle a lot and would probably give you Kyle Smith as the answer. And I would take Kyle Smith before I'd take Bruce or Eric and probably Doug too. I mean, I want Doug evaluating my quarterbacks, but I just don't know enough about Kyle Smith to say that.

I agree. I agree with that. A lot of Kyle Smith has a lot of the Kyle Smith love, and I don't know what he's like. I've never met him. So I don't know if he's got. Everybody likes Kyle Smith. And everything you hear about Kyle Smith is he's a professional and he's young

and that he's eventually going to move up the ranks. I know that, but you hear that from people who like them. Yes, and you hear that, we've heard that. What's funny is, we didn't hear that from people in the organization necessarily about Sean McVeigh. We heard it from Cooley first before anybody else, and then all of a sudden he's gone. Well, you know, Kyle Smith didn't gone yet. Yeah, I know.

Nobody's plucked him yet. No, no, no, he still worked for Dan Snyder. They did give him an elevated. Did they elevate his title this year? I forget. I mean, we know that they did that with Matt Kavanaugh. All right, go ahead. Part of the decision is easy because you eliminate.

A large segment of the group based on how horrible they are at it, you know, which would mean Bruce Allen, which would mean Eric Schaefer, which would mean Dan Snyder, which would, okay, so you've already eliminated them. Doug Williams hasn't done anything to prove to you that he's a good talent evaluator. The only thing we've seen from Doug Williams that from the outside looking in that we can judge are basically public mistakes. Public mistakes representing the organization. Fair or not, we don't, we have no idea. Public mistakes after he was put in positions

that, in my view, he shouldn't have been put into. I agree. That he should have been, others higher up, the owner or the team president, should have been handling those press, conferences and answering those questions. He was hung out to dry. So I'm not saying Doug Williams, but I put him above the guys that I just eliminated.

I'm going to agree with you. I'm going to agree with you about Jay Gruden, lazy or not, is my talent evaluate. Because I think the chances of Jay Gruden getting it right with a cursory examination are better than the other guys watching film 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Now, I didn't give you an answer that I just thought of, and you're not going to necessarily love my answer. Oh, come on. But he is in the organization. Don't do it.

Well, nobody has a better talent evaluating eye than Cooley in the organization. He's not technically, I guess he technically does work for the organization, but they're never going to give him that opportunity. Or they might. They might at some point. By the way, I want to point out, I said no to Eric Schaefer in terms of a talent evaluator. But Eric Schaefer would 100% be my lead guy on everything contractual, et cetera. Yeah, I would do that. But I would think in this organization, I'd be thinking outside the box constantly because inside the box is nothing.

Right, but that's not what I asked you. I mean, it's not a box, Kevin. It's a prison. That's my favorite line from Tommy all year long. And one of my favorite lines of his in any column he's ever written, when DJ Sweringer was cut, Tommy said if you really wanted to punish DJ Swaranger, you would have made him stay. That was brilliant. All right, well.

So, I mean, I think we both agreed. It would be Jay Gruden. It would be, but I'm just telling you, Jay Gruden, Jay Gruden's an average football coach, and ultimately the results of him and personnel would be average to. Yeah. Well, that would be. Because Jay is, I think he's creative. I think he's got talent.

I just would always wonder whether or not this was going to be the most important thing to him and if he were going to really grind it out. I think if you told Jay, look, you know, we're putting the ball in your hands. You know, you can be the guy that selects our talent. He might not, but remember, part of this whole process when they're picking the players allows him to say, I got who I got. You know what? I got Josh Doxon.

I got a guard. Remember that line? I'll coach whoever's on the dang field. Yeah, right. You know, a lot of people think they can do a better job, and he probably can, but deep down don't want the opportunity to prove it. Well, I'm not looking at one of those guys right now. I don't know.

It depends on what we're talking about. It depends on what we're talking about. But I guarantee you I'm looking at one of those guys right now. All right, let's get to Van Pelt right, after we. tell you about Window Nation. It's Window Nation's annual spring cleaning sales event. Are your windows having issues, cracks,

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10,000 positive online reviews. These are the many reasons when Donation has installed over 475,000 windows and more than 80,000 homes, including mine, twice over the last 10 years. Harley, Aaron, Eric, one of the best companies you'll ever work with, and if you mention my name, they'll take good care of you. 86690 Nation or windonation.com. That's 86690 Nation or windownation.com. All right, let's bring in Scott. Scott's down in Augusta at the Masters. Give us your schedule. What's your schedule like?

I know you were, you know, you and Andy were doing some stuff yesterday for the par three. What's the schedule the rest of the weekend? Tuesday Wednesday, they are our busiest days by far. Tuesday is the press conference day. We're on for like four consecutive hours. Yesterday we did three hours of sports center in the morning. Then we did the par three. Then we did an hour show after that.

My schedule now is pretty much light lifting, but it's, you know, it's the important stuff, I suppose. I mean, we're in the Butler Cabin at 3, and, you know, the broadcast comes on the air, and here we are from the Masters. And it's a CBS broadcast. I think I've explained this through the years with you. I mean, I'm not calling golf per se. I mean, maybe in the very beginning, I will. But we just hand it off to Jim, Nance, and the CBS golf crew, and Curtis Strange and I are mostly just there to kind of reset the scene, maybe do some interviews in the Butler Cabin and whatever. routes. So the heaviest lifting from just hours of work standpoint is done, and now we get to

just kind of watch the golf, which is a treat. But when you're in Butler Cabin today and tomorrow, you're interviewing players that have just finished their round, and Nance throws it to you, right? Yes, absolutely. I mean, look, we're part of the broadcast. I just, I just think, like, for instance, when we would, when ESPN had the U.S. open and we did rounds one and two, that was an, that was an ESPN crew. Like NBC got the weekend, but we would blend the two into one another. Mike Tarrico would be in the booth, I'd be in the booth, vice versa, with the NBC crew. But here, like, you know, it's not like me or anyone else goes into 18 power. I mean, that's Jim Mansus seed, and it's a CBS broadcast, but we are, as I say, we're ingrained in the

broadcast, but it's, as I also said, it's just not a whole lot of the work. So it's a funny thing, Kevin, is, you know, I get caught watching the golf on the monitor, and then all of a sudden Lance Barrow, who's the director and the producer for CBS, who gets my ear and say, oh, we're coming to Butler Cabin, and I'm thinking, oh, crap, I'm on TV, you know, it's like you forget, because you've been kind of just lulled into this hypnotic state, just watching the golf. Hello, friends. Jim Nance has quite a gig. I mean, the last few weeks with the tournament and then to Augusta to call the Masters each year. I mean, I think you've got a good gig, and I think a lot of people in sports broadcasting have good gigs. But does that get discussed among, you heavyweights in the sports broadcasting industry about how good a gig Nance has? Well, settle down with the heavyweights, but I mean, of course, of course it's a, I mean, it's just, it's the kind of thing that when I see Jim, I'll always just, you know, we'll always just smile and shake our heads and say, how about this week? And look, he's, he's self-aware. He knows that calling the national title game on Monday in Minneapolis and then being in Augusta on Tuesday to call the Masters as a start your week on a Monday with one title and then ended on Sunday with another and they're two of the biggest titles in American sports. And you're doing it.

them. I mean, it's been a hell of a run. But Jim has always been really kind to me, and especially in the golf side of things, always been so supportive and, you know, just, you know, just always an encouraging word, which really means a lot because, I mean, you know, he is an actual heavyweight in the business. So it's nice to have somebody like that, you know, pumping you up. You know, Tommy's not a golf guy and he's, you know, made fun of golf, all of all of the golf people and the people that love golf throughout his entire distinguished. But I'm not going to do that here today. I'm not going to do that today.

But I got a chance last year to go to Augusta for the first time. It was, you know, a bucket list item for me, and it was even better than I could have ever expected. You get to go there every year for somebody like Tommy, because you just said that you and Nance look at each other. Nance gets to call everything, Super Bowl's in the whole thing, but this may be the most special week of the year for him. Explain to somebody.

like Tommy, why Augusta is so spectacular and special? Well, I think what it really boils down to is, and I get the eye roll from someone who, and listen, let me be clear. Like, I didn't grow up at a country club, but I grew up playing it. My first rounds of golf in D.C. were at Haynes Point, okay? And I played at Northwest Golf Park out in Montgomery County where I lit. So I'm not some country club guy who grew up, you know, dreaming of playing in the Walker Cup or something. But golf is obviously something that in my professional life became what I did, and then I came here to the Masters in 97 the very first time, and Tiger did what he did.

And the thing about Augusta National is that there is a significant number of people who come back every year. And maybe some of them are members, maybe some of them are, as they are called, your patrons. maybe it's the club rep guys that you see or gal that I have a good friend from tidalist that I see every year and just it's the renewal of friendships. There's this gigantic oak tree that's in the back of the clubhouse that it manages to cast shadows on about 150 yards of ground and people just stand under there and watch the world go by. I just stood out there and watched Tiger walk by not long ago to get ready to go, you know, jump into competition here.

and there's just, it feels different, man. And it's hard to describe it, the aesthetic of it, but it feels different. You feel like you're lucky to be here. I always call it, it's like church. Like, if you wanted, whether you believe or not, when you're there, you act right, you know what I'm saying? I think people just act different here.

They don't scream mashed potatoes when the guy hits a golf ball. The whole thing about it is, and it's just a spectacularly beautiful place when you look around, like it exceeds what you think it might be. So I understand it's not for everybody, you know, but like the beauty of it is it doesn't have to be. If you're not into it, then don't be into it. It's not a problem. Sounds magical. I get it, Tommy.

Okay. Not every looks like the box score either. Okay. Look at a half hours at a baseball stadium and keep score, but some people do. And I try not to mock those people. The reason that people don't scream and yell is because they're afraid of being arrested by the Gestapo there. I mean, come on, let's face it. I read the Steve Palli columnist in New Jersey.com had a great story about a guy a couple years ago who took a cup of sand and how his life was destroyed by trying to take a cup of sand.

And that was a pretty frightening story for me to read. But I'm going to play it straight here. And by the way, Kevin throws around that word heavyweights in broadcast it because he thinks he's one too. Yeah, hardly. So that's why he's so. But we are talking to one. That's why he's so ready to use it. He's just too humble to say it. How long have you been going down there to Augusta?

I mean, how many masters is this? 97 was the first one. I don't think I went to everyone. I want to say there might have been 98 or 99. I can't remember if I missed one or two. So it's been, I'd just say, as a rough estimate, I'd say 20. Okay. What's been the biggest change in the culture or the atmosphere, or is the beauty of it that there's been no change?

Well, I think, I mean, Augusta Nationals changed considerably. I mean, just in terms of, and it's going to change slowly, but it's certainly changed. I mean, in terms of membership, I mean, Martha Burke famously protested. There are no female members, and now there are not, I don't know the number, but it's more than a couple. Condoleezza Rice is a member, which actually is a funny story. I was standing in the grill, and I heard a female voice behind me say, SVP, and I turned around, and it was Condoleezza Rice, and I don't. pause much when it comes to, you know, I'm not a loss for words much, and I just said,

Madam Secretary, and she said, Condi. And I said, okay, so now when I see Condo leaves rice, I smile and I wait and I say Condi, and she says, SPP, which is cool. But like, the membership has changed. They had a tournament with the women's amateur this weekend. They do the drive chip and putt where, you know, kids get a chance to come out here. They talk about growing the game, and it is a private club. And so. So their membership is up to them. But that has changed them being more open to, from a TV side, televising the par three contest, just giving people more of a view inside this place that I think is almost like mythical to those who haven't seen it.

So the vibe of it's the same. The mood's the same when you come here. But, you know, they're evolving. I know there are people that would say that it should happen more quickly. But, I mean, every club makes its own decisions for itself. And I think just from looking at it from the prism of television and what they're doing with the women's amateur and the drive-chip and putt and the par three contest, as I mentioned, all these things are really positive.

And obviously, TV side, we'd love it to be from the minute they tee off until the moment it ends be on TV, but they're a big believer that less is more when it comes to that. The most amazing part of it, Tommy, Kara, my wife, couldn't care less about golf or sports. And it is what Scott said early on, it's aesthetically beyond what you would ever think. There's not a bladed grass out of place. It's eye-popping greens and yellows and pinks. And my wife, who loves aesthetically pleasing, which is I'm sure why she married me, she would have been blown away.

to explain it to her. I'm like, that was the most amazing part. I mean, I'm a huge golf fan, and it was cool to see the holes that I've watched so many times over the years on television to see them up close. And by the way, Scott, that's the other thing for the people that have never been there. It's the steepness of the hills on some of these holes. I mean, it's a, it's a tough walk. I mean, some of those holes. I mean, the elevation of some of them. But it really, I don't know if you would be blown away. You probably wouldn't be, but I think your reaction to it would be different

if you were actually there. Have you ever had a chance to go? No, I never, look, I know a lot of sports writer friends of mine who swear by it. They say it's the most fun they have, you know. And I think it's just because they get to hang out together. I think if they were hanging out anywhere, you know, it would be the same thing.

I disagree just because it's my favorite week of the year, barring on. And you get to hang out with these people lots of places. I mean, when we were doing golf, and we had the first two rounds of the U.S. Open and all of the Open Championship, I'd see these people at St. Andrews, and I'd see them at Congressional for the U.S. Open and the Open. But seeing them here, man, it's just different. And it's, again, I said to somebody the other day, I said, try to tell somebody what your favorite flavor of ice cream tastes like if they've never had a bite. Well, it's just really good, and you've got to try it.

And then until you tell you try it, you'll never understand what it's. is. So, I mean, like I said, I'm not trying to convert those that aren't interested. I just, people that know, no, and they just kind of nod and go, yep, it's better than that. You know that ice cream analogy that you just gave, I would just give to you and Tommy and just say, trust me on Game of Thrones. Just trust me on it. I've been trying to convince both of you, you're the only two holdouts in my life for the last four years. That fire-breathing dragon is a sound thing. I'd say a thing. Same thing for Tommy.

That was a big deal. It was like a free agent. It was like a free agent, dragon acquisition. Big, big deal, man. Yeah, it's the same thing. You know, my wife who watches it says, well, you like Godzilla. And I say, yeah, but I don't think it's Casablanca. That's so true.

That's so true. The guy, the little guy that was dead, and then he took a deep breath, and he was alive. John Snow. Maybe he's going to make out with his sister, and then there's a dragon. actually he's not making out with his sister he's actually sleeping with his aunt he just doesn't know it yet oh why wait he's probably hot yeah well you know many times it was different there was no so the last effort here you know me and you would you have ever guessed that i would have ever been to a into a fantasy show like this never in a hundred years right so it's not about the fantasy it's

about the characters. And a lot of these fantasy sci-fi things are about the fantasy and the sci-fi. This one's heavy on the characters. It's little on the fantasy. But you've got to watch... It's really about the costume that he likes to wear while he's watching. But really it's chocolate mint chip. You just

got to taste it. All right, well, I'm not going to want Tom is coming to Augusta. I'm not watching the game at all. Who are you in a house with? Andy North, Tom Monaldi, and our producer Mike McQuade. It is it is our tradition unlike any other.

Although we were in the same house for years, and this is actually funny. I just cut me off whenever you're bored. But we stayed in the same house for years, and I got to the house last. And so I went to the all the way upstairs bedroom, and it was

a little girl who was like five years old. It was a twin bed. So I'm sleeping in this twin bed bedroom. And for like 15 years, we were in that same house. So over that time, she's like growing up, and now she's a college student. And now, like, the pictures on the wall are of this college student. I think she's at Georgia and all of her sorority sisters.

And, like, we would see her dad would work for the event at the club, and I'd see him. And I just said, man, just please tell your daughter, I'm sorry. Like, I want to sleep on the floor. I feel so odd. I'm a middle-aged man sleeping in this college bed. And it's just, the whole thing just, I wanted it was like sling blade. I wanted to sleep on top of the covers and not make them and not ruffle them. But we, this house over time, like, it was our house.

every year. And then I think they got more money from some other company. And so the last two years we've had to go to different houses. And you know me, Mr. Creature of Habit, like I'm all thrown off. I'm not in the same room. It's a little bit, I'm struggling a little bit, but it's the same core group that's been in the house for years. And these are all, you know, we're 20 years in working with each other. They're like family. So that just adds to the front of the week as well. You know, this is what happens for Hall of Fame weekend in Cooperstown. Everybody stays in people's houses that they rent out. I once stayed in a house in Cooperstown that was owned by the DiMaggio family.

Not related to Joe, but that was pretty bizarre. You know, you talk about the houses and I talk about the camaraderie that the sports writers feel. From what I've read on social media, what they're really feeling, too, is the absence of Dan Jenkins at this event. That's true. He's so legendary. He's so legendary, and I actually, I don't know Sally Jenkins,

but Mr. George Solomon, who's a friend, was kind enough to share an email with me to send her a note because I wanted to send her a note about her dad, and I just wanted to know that I had such respect for him, but of all the people in sports who have ever crossed paths with, I was terrified at Dan Jenkins because I felt like I was this TV schmuck, and he's Dan Jenkins, and I just imagine him looking at me thinking,

look at this idiot. And I said, I want you to know your dad never did one thing to make me feel like I wasn't adequate or that I was offending him. But I just couldn't summon the courage to just say, Mr. Jenkins, you know, it's a pleasure to meet you. And I actually knew his boy, his son Marty, I worked with at the Golf Channel.

So, you know, I failed myself and not just saying hi to the guy because he truly, especially around here, Tommy, is a legend and always will be just because of the way he carried. himself and the way he kind of looked at the event and the people who made up the event. And you're right. The loss of Dan Jenkins, particularly at Augustine National, is palpable. All right. Let's talk about the golf here for a moment. Rory is the favorite and a significant favorite,

but he's never won here before. Do you think this is the weekend? It's the best he's arrived playing. The problem is how crowded. it is with people who I think if you told me Justin Rose one, I'd go, sure, of course, he's been a runner up here twice. If you told me Ricky Fowler one, I'd say, well, sure, it's time that he breaks through. He was second last year. So, like,

if you told me Tiger, sure, I'll buy that. He's played well. Last two majors last year, he finished sixth and second. Then he wanted Eastlake. So there's a long list of people who I think are very realistic winners. Rory happens to drive it better than all of them. And the confidence he's playing with after

the win at the players is is, again, the most confidence he's arrived with, but a lot of things have to go your way to win any major, particularly here, because so many of the best in the world love it and play well here. I get why he's the favorite, and again, if he won, it would shock nobody. The guy I picked, when anybody asked me, I picked Tony Fienow just because I'm looking for, well, here's why. I picked him in our pool. Is that right?

Scott and I are in the same pool, golf pool, and for the majors, you pick two. golfers and Fienau was one of my picks. Why did you pick him? Well, the profile of guys who've won here in the last 10 years is not on the short, short list of favorites. Only two of the last 10 winners here have been like 20 to 1 or lower odds. So it tends to be somebody like a Patrick Reed who, when he wins, you go, oh, sure. Or will it.

Yeah. Sure. Well, Willett was. Was he in a longer shot? Finole? I don't think so. I want to say phenow is about the same as a read, maybe a little bit longer. I just also like the way he, he's a guy that gets incredibly streaky, and like, Danny Willett won because he had one great nine-hole stretch.

Charles Schwartzel won because he had one great five-hole stretch coming home. Like, I'm kind of just taking a stab in the dark here. I mean, there's 80-some-odd guys, and I'm trying to pick one. Who the hell knows who the one is. I'm just trying to pick a name that I think isn't, you know, one of the three or four favorites, because it doesn't seem to be one of those guys who wins lately. Yeah, I just had the Virginia epiphany with Fienau. They got beat by a 16 seed.

They wanted all the, you know, on Monday night. And last year before this tournament started, he jumped up in the air and rolled his ankle. And a year later, I feel like there's some sort of redemption story. Plus, what you said, he's a guy that can get hot, and he hits it a long way. He could make this course easy if he's in the fairways. This is Golf Insider, Kevin Sheehan, with us here on the podcast.

Well, this is what heavyweights do, Scott. They've got opinions on everything. They throw their weight or they throw their weight around. Okay, that's really funny. Am I right or not? You're absolutely right. He hits it a mile in the air as well, and he can bomb it, and he's streaky, for sure. All those things are true.

But, I mean, like, I would counter the – I don't think there's a redemption story for a guy that actually shot 66 on Sunday to finish in the top 10. I mean, it was a hell of a week. It started, strangely. But, I mean, he played well on the – the reason he's back here is because he finished in the top ten last year. I mean, in part, that's one of the reasons he got back is because of how well he played last year. What are Tigers' chances? And how important is today his first round?

The most important part of the week is him playing well Thursday because he – what ends up happening here is that it's like 10 guys get jumbled together. It's really hard to separate yourself out here. He's done it. but normally you end up with, say, three guys at nine, four guys at eight, three more guys at seven, and it's just this pack. Well, Tiger can't be the guy at three because there's just no way you're catching up because you have to pass too many people. And he's gotten off the slow start. So him getting off to a decent start is massively important.

But I was on with Tony and Mike yesterday on PTI, and they said, how realistic? And I said, well, look at it this way. He had the lead at the open. He finished a shot off the lead at the PGA, and he won at Eastlake. That's the profile of any player you'd say has a good chance in the next major, right? Well, that's what his profile is. I know he hasn't putted well this year, but he's still Tiger Woods, and I think his chances are awfully realistic.

Let me ask you this about Tiger. He's had, you know, arguably the greatest legacy in golf history. The only one you could argue with comparable is Jack Nicholas' problem. probably in terms of accomplishments. If he never wins another major, do you think he's comfortable with his legacy or do you think that he'll always feel that he has an emptiness? I think it's more of the latter.

I think winning, I know winning last year was a big, big deal to him after the injuries. Like, you don't come back from this surgery he had. Fused back, he did as a last resort. and to win again after that kind of makes it house money. And there's part of him that would have to look at 80 wins and 14 majors and go, that's a hell of a run. But I do believe that a larger part of him would feel like, man,

I had eight surgeries total. You know, my life got a little sideways there for a while, and it could have been more. But maybe over time you rationalize it away more just with the injuries and think, well, what else could I have done? That's a really interesting question. As I talk through it, I just, I think knowing them as long as I have, I think there's a contentment in his life now that's different. There's a satisfaction that comes from being a dad and it's different. It used to be just this singular focus, trophies, trophies, trophies.

So maybe there's better context now. There definitely is. Not maybe. There definitely is. But, I mean, when he's sitting there on a rocking cheer someday and he's an old man, if it's only 14, I'm sure he'll say, damn, I didn't leave Tori Pines thinking that was the last time I was going to win a major. Is this his best shot, Augusta, to win a major, another one? No, because too many other great players play well here, you know.

And, like, he's won at Beth Page. They play there this year. He's won at Pebble. They play there this year. I just, I feel like the Masters. I mean, it's been 14 years since he won here. And I just, I feel like there's too many great players that love it as much as he does. Like I mentioned the list earlier, you know, the roses, the McElroy's.

And I mean, I could keep going, but I don't just keep saying the names of golfers because I don't think that's really compelling to listen to. But it's, this place is just, it's everyone's favorite place. So that's why I feel like it's, I understand why people think, oh, Augustus, his place. Well, yes and no. It's Bubba's place. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Like, Bobba's best chance every year is going to be when he comes here. Like, he gets to the U.S. Open or the Open

and, like, if he gets sideways, just decides he doesn't like the course, he's got no chance. But like a guy like him, look, Phil Mickelson, he's 48. He'll be just like Fred Couples. He'll play well here into his 50s. I guarantee it. So, I just, there's too many guys here. You've got to be better than. So I don't see this as his best chance. I mean, some random course where he has his

best week is his best chance. All right. Switch subjects real quickly and then we'll let you run. Just your thoughts on Virginia winning the national championship on Monday night. I thought the game was awesome. I admire the fact that against both Auburn and Texas Tech, they had 10-point leads, lost the lead, and still figured out how to win. There's an undeniable kind of role that the officiating played in it. I mean, I don't know what you can say.

I mean, Jerome double-dribbled. guy fell over his own guy and got a free throws, got free throws the other night. But just taking your lens and zeroing it on one call and making that what happened would be totally discounting the amazing resolve they showed. There's no way they were supposed to be Purdue, given what the stakes were late. There's no way they were going to beat Auburn. And you could argue there was no way they were beating Texas Tech after they lost the lead. And they didn't win one or two.

They won all three. and I thought all year, and I said, all year on my show, look, you can make, I said, make your jokes about UMBC while you can, because this team's good enough to win a title. I thought it all year long, and they proved it. So I like Tony Bennett a lot,

and put it this way, it would have felt to me that either team that won on Monday night was a worthy and justified champion, because they both played great in the second half. And, you know, Virginia just, I don't like destiny, because that implies that there's somebody with a magic wand, man. They made their destiny because they kept fighting and they kept making plays when other teams would have crumbled. And I really admire that. You know, Tommy and I talked about this the other day

because we were doing the show the day after the game and I said to him, you know, if you look at Virginia, this isn't a perception thing, but this is a reality thing right now, that they are at the level of Duke in North Carolina in the ACC. And they have been for six years now. They've won four of the six regular season titles. They're a 30 game winner four times out of six. They've got the most recent national champion chip, et cetera. It's what we used to aspire to as Maryland fans. And Maryland was always the number three program in the ACC. But even the best years, you couldn't put up with what UVA's done here for six consecutive years. They're a constant in the top five, certainly no worse than top ten. And I said to Aaron and Tommy the other day, it's, it may not be from a

reception standpoint, but the reality is they are now Duke and Carolina in the ACC. I agree with that. And the one thing that they had on the resume, obviously, that none of that those other teams didn't have, was UMBC. But Duke's got Lehigh and Mercer. And, you know, you're allowed to stumble. And they did. And they did it without one of their best players. Hunter got hurt last year, the game before that. And UMBC played great, give them credit forever. But You're right. Like take, just look at the,

look at the, look at the seeds, look at what they've done in the ACC, best league in America, and now look at what they've done with a banner. I mean,

there's no, there's no reasonable argument to that. And Bennett, Benet doing it mostly without, like, well, doing it entirely without one and done guys. He's got some pros on this year's team.

But he's going to recruit, you know, guys that are what he wants, largely, at least two, three, and mostly four-year guys. And,

And it's maybe not the most aesthetically pleasing brand of basketball. But you know what's pleasing basketball winning? And they do that mostly. And he's only 49 years old. So this could happen and go on for a while. He could be K. He could be K at Virginia. Yeah, he could be.

By the way, when you just mentioned the Duke 215 losses, which have happened, I think, twice, I was thinking, has Roy ever at Carolina lost early, super early? Not that I remember. I don't think it's ever happened with him. He may have it, can't. I think at Kansas, yes, but I think since he's been at Carolina, I cannot remember Carolina exiting in the first round. I don't think they have. Lastly, ESPN just updated their mock draft for the NBA.

Bruno's not even in the first round. Is there a chance that he's coming back? I'm going to talk myself into it. I'm going to talk myself into the fact that, look, I know that he has. a relationship with Mark Turgeon, it's better than people know. They have a good respect and a really good relationship. I know he loves being Bruno Fernando in College Park. You know, he's the guy on campus.

I know he loves all that. Now, push comes to shove and you're going to be a first rounder. Yeah, I love it, but I also want to start being a pro. That might be really hard to. Kevin Herder loved being a college student, too, but he had to go. but he had a lot of momentum in the right direction last year. I don't know how realistic the odds are that he'd stay. I've been working under the idea all year that he's going to go,

but it does seem like maybe the slightest glimmer, but I just don't want to talk myself into it because then I'm just going to be Charlie Brown. Do you know this guy, Jonathan Giovanni? He does your, he does. So he just put out his updated mock, and he's got. I'll text him and then I'll let you know what I find out. Yeah, he's got Bruno going in the second round.

Well, you know, look, if he has a good relationship with Mark Turgeon, Turgeon will give him a good advice. Not only in the second round, the fourth pick in the second round, like number 34 overall. All right, we'll let you go. Thanks. Enjoy the weekend. We'll be watching. I'll certainly be watching today and tomorrow. I don't know about Tommy.

But I'll be watching and I'll talk to you. Thanks, Scott. I appreciate it. Have a great, great Sunday night put on your wizard hat. and get out your sword and go get those dragons, buddy. Go get them. I told you one of these years, one of the two of you, I don't know which one it is. Probably Tommy, because you're in that window of young children and it's just hard to get the time.

But one of these days, Tommy will call me up, where he'll text me and he'll say, I just got through season one, you were right. That's great. All right, see you. Bye. Bye. All right, thanks to Scott for making time for us down at Augusta. Real quick word about my good friends at Ferris, Chrysler Dodge Jeep in Fairfax.

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They're located right there in the heart of Fairfax and Fairfax Circle, and you can find out even before you head out there. You can find out everything Farish has on their lot right now. Live inventory, live pricing, best deals at ferrish cars.com. All right, let's welcome in our friend Greg Wyshinsky, who covers hockey as the senior NHL writer for ESPN and ESPN.com. Before we get to the caps, I mean, I'm going to assume that this hasn't happened very often, that a number one seed, a president's trophy winning team with,

as many points as Tampa had during the regular season, lost their first playoff game after giving up a three-nothing lead. But that's what happened last night when Columbus roared back to win game one, four to three. I mean, were there notes on this as to whether or not it was a first? It wasn't a first. It's the 10th team in the history of the playoffs to blow a three-goal lead in their first game of the postseason.

And the scary part of that for the lightning is that only two. two of those nine teams came back to win their series. So there's a little bit of writing on the wall here that maybe they're a bit of trouble. But, you know, this is interesting because it was a defensive breakdown, obviously, last night. And I talked to John Cooper, their coach earlier this season. And he told me, like, the thing about us is that we need to win games two to one in the playoffs and not all the time five to four. In the last two post seasons they've been in, they lost a game six, then lost a game

seven to the penguins and the capitals, showing an inability, I think, to close out teams defensively when they needed to. And, you know, last night it was a case where the Blue Jackets got their forecheck going. They got their confidence. They got their skates under them. And the Lightning had no answer for it defensively. So it's either going to be a harsh education or it's a harbinger of things that come for the Tampa Lightning. But in other case, it's a pretty bad way to start a playoff. Well, which way would you lean? I mean, if it's two and seven in the first nine times this has happened, is it going to be two and eight or is it going to be three and seven? Because there's still a significant favorite. They are, and I think in watching that

game last night, I'm going to err on the side of harsh education. I mean, the goal that got the blue jackets back into that game was the result of Ryan McDonough getting extraordinarily cute with the puck in his own offensive zone and then causing a breakaway the other way. And there were other examples of that, too, during the game. So, I mean, I err on the side of they're not going to do this again, and that if you get a team down 3-0 in the first period, you best keep them down and not give them any reason to believe they can get back into it. But the one interesting thing from that game from a Blue Jack's perspective

is the fact that after the first period where he got absolutely torched, and part of that was how poor the team in front of him was playing, Sergey Bobrovsky, who's been a complete playoff liability for them in almost every postseason, played really well in the second and third and gave his team a chance to win. And so if he's got his head screwed on straight, then we might have ourselves a series, but I still think that, you know, not only the Lightning and the Superior team, this is also a Columbus team that we saw do this exact same thing against the Capitol last year, and then, you know, you go on to lose the series.

Speaking of the Capitals, the whole theme going into the playoff series tonight against Carolina is the capitals don't have the fear of failure hanging over their locker room anymore. And even John Carlson referred to it as they got some answers about their team last year. In other words, answers that when they're down two to nothing in the series or if they're, if they're, if they're, if they're, having three to one lead in the series and it winds up three to three. Their go-to move doesn't have to be to basically fail. What do you think about that attitude going into the playoffs? Oh, I think it's completely true. And I think it's also going to feel different for the people in the building, too,

when things go sideways. I mean, it's that sort of symbiotic type thing that was happening between everybody in the building when things would go sideways for the capital. which is the foreboding sense of doom and that this is just what happens to us in the playoffs. And I don't think that's going to be the case anymore. I mean, if they go on to play the penguins in the next round, they're going to walk into the series as the favorite and thinking they should win, which is not always the case.

So that's been the X factor in a lot of, I think, the punditry trying to figure out exactly what the capitals are going to do this postseason because without that psychological block, without that obstacle in front of them, the sky is a limit, right? And in a series like this against Carolina, where clearly the best chance that they have is to put some fear into the capitals early and try to bring this thing back to Raleigh with a puncher's chance, you know, I think even if that happens, the capos are going to be confident. On top of all of the stuff from last postseason, also because they've beaten the hurricane's pillar to post this year. I mean, 4-0 against them, plus 9 goal differential. and you know it's it's funny to think about how a number of these guys remember the southeast division and and having those games against Carolina back then but they do and frankly the capitals have never

struggled to succeed when it comes to playing in Raleigh either so it's a pretty favorable matchup for them you know you mentioned the symbiotic relationship in that building when the fear of failure hung over this franchise I mean I think that connection of of players and fans both feeling arguably the same level of pain and distress after what they've been through is what made the connection of the celebration so special I think the players no question I think the players you know having been through I mean they used to deny it early you know when they first got here but eventually I think they connected with the same level of pain that was in the stands

And then I think that's the connection that made it the celebration so special. Oh, for sure. I actually remember Brian McClellan being one of the first guys to actually put voice to the idea that you could feel it in the building when things went wrong. And, you know, that's like acknowledging the psychology that was happening between the fans and the players on the ice. But no, you see, that's, I mean, there's always sort of that cliche lip service given to, you know, our fans are the best. or, you know, the fans are great tonight or whatever. But maybe it's a hockey thing or not. I don't know.

But, like, there's a serious, serious kind of shared psychology and shared motivation between players and fans. Look no further than Vegas last year, where the crowds they had and the community that support they had propelled them to great heights. Look no further than last night, where the Islanders play a playoff game in Nassau Coliseum. And, you know, for the second time,

this year, the other one being when John Tavares and the Leifes came there for the first time, the strength of that crowd and the volume of that crowd, I think, is one of the reasons they were able to knock off the penguins in overtime. It's a real palpable thing, and it's hard to deny in the Capitol's case that they were playing not only for themselves, but also for their city. Yeah. It's, I mean, everything both of you just said is so true, but it was also about Ovechkin last year and his journey and always coming up short. And, you know, it's the same way football fans may have felt about John Elway after losing the first four Super Bowls and then finally getting over the top. No one ever thought that Ovechkin would actually get there and when he did

and then to watch the celebration. And starting moments when game five ended in Vegas with his reaction was really moving for a sports fan, not even a hockey or a Caps fan. Because everybody understood the Ovechkin story. and knew the story. Look, my argument was that, you know, going into last season, you know, there was that famous trip. Barry Trotz took a trip to Russia. It wasn't just to meet Ovechkin.

It was for something to do related with his family, but he went out of his way to go meet with Ovechkin. And they had a heart to heart where basically, you know, Trot said, you know, your hair's getting gray and people were talking about your legacy as about what's missing, not what you've done. and I mean, I don't know for sure, but I think that's what you saw when you saw Ovechkin celebrating. Ovechkin saying they can say whatever they want about me now, but I've got a Stanley Cup. Not only that, but he got a Stanley Cup that he was the central force and winning. Right.

Which is such a rare thing for, you know, an athlete, and especially in hockey that's had a long championship drought. I mean, it's usually they need to leave their team to win one like, Ray Bork or, you know, it's somebody who wins one at the tail end of their career playing an entirely different role than they played throughout their entire career. And in Ovechkin's case, he only got to win one, but got to win one while winning the Khan-Smith and being the absolute driving force behind the team and playing in his prime. So it really sort of took every possible argument and criticism against him off the table outside of, well, you know, SIDS won more, you know, or something like that. Right. Because, you know,

you know, they won the cup because of them. And that's something that certainly is not like, you know, winning your cup when you're 39. Yeah, and, you know, just adding one more thing to this story, you know, and being able to overcome and the feeling in the building. I mean, we all talked about that for every year before the postseason when we would have you on, it would be like, what happens if they get down, you know, three games to two,

or it's a game seven at home and they fall behind one nothing. it's that feeling that it was always going to end poorly, and it had the opportunity to multiple times last year, being down two nothing, two home games to Columbus. They were down early to Pittsburgh in that series, and then when Tampa rallied from two down to win three straight games, and almost everybody, I think, was convinced that they were not going to win that series after Tampa Bay had won three in a row.

It was really, it was ultimately, it was one of the best, sports stories of the entire year. I mean, the Ovecgen story, the Caps story, one of the best sports stories of the year, and it happened here, a place that never wins anything. So let's talk about Carolina. I had Joe B. on the show yesterday, and I was surprised that the Caps weren't this consensus pick by the experts, which you are included, you picked the Caps, but I was surprised to how many people believe that this is, you know, a near toss-up series. Why don't you feel that way? Oh, I just, I just think the capture of superior team. And I think the hurricanes do a lot of things right, especially when it comes to shot attempts and puck possession.

It's just that, you know, for all of the possession that they get, they just don't have enough finishers on their roster right now to really make a difference. And that's the key in this series is that, you know, when the capitals do get their opportunities, I think they're going to be able to bury them in a way that Carolina doesn't. And then you add in the success. they've had against the hurricanes and the lack of any fear that this is going to be a, you know, realistic upset bid. I just think that everything kind of points in the cap's direction. And, you know, the other thing that the hurricanes have had recently in making the playoffs is some

outstanding bull-tending from both Peter Morazic and Curtis McElhaney, but then when you look at Braden-Holt these numbers in April, you're like, all right, that might equal out. So I don't know. I understand why they're being picked. I think there's a certain romanticism to the Scrappy, dog that hasn't played a playoff game since, well, gee, more than a decade, and thinking that this team with the goofy home ice celebrations and stuff is going to continue the sort of Cinderella run, I just think that maybe the capitals are the wrong team for them to play in the

first round. You know, one of the big storylines going into the series tonight, going into the playoffs, period, is everyone waiting for Tom Wilson to lose his mind on the ice again. I mean, you know, I mean, he's managed after he served 15 games of that 20 game suspension to start the season. He managed to at least keep things under control during a regular season. Everyone's given them a lot of credit for that. But you know how, you know how intense relationships can get on the ice between opponents in a playoff game, in a playoff series where things happen.

And then you're right back on the ice with that opponent two nights later. How much, is that being overblown and all? It's not because, you know, we have, we don't have proof of concept yet that he knows how to go through a playoff series without doing the stuff he did last year. I talked to George Peros, the head of the Department of Player's Safety a couple months ago about, where last month about Wilson. And he said, look, you know, we've been really impressed the way he's been hitting. we've been really impressed with the hits that he's not chosen to deliver, showing that he's thinking about the type of things he's doing with his body on the ice and trying not to be as injurious.

But they were lulled into a false sense of security about Tom Wilson last year, too, where he went a good stretch of the regular season without any incident, and then, you know, arguably had one suspendable offense in each round of the playoffs. So I think we're all waiting to see if the new Tom Wilson is, in fact, the new Tom Wilson. I will say that the difference, though, between last year and this year, is that he has that massive suspension now on his record. And I think he knows that the next one is going to cost him upwards of 25 to 30 games if it's the same kind of hit that he delivers.

So maybe that's finally the deterrent. But again, you can't know until you've seen him go through the intensity of a few playoff rounds and do so without incident. I don't want to harp on this. It's the last question I'll ask about it. but if it happens during the playoffs, they'll meet out that punishment right away. That's not something that will wait for next season, right?

Yeah, that's correct. And in some cases, as we saw in the past, with a guy like Rafi Torres who took out Marion Hosa in a playoff series, the suspension will begin in the playoffs and then carry over next season. So, you know, there will be an appeals process if it's a big suspension, you know, and Wilson has, as he did previously, this season has its every right to appeal. But that's only going to mostly affect, you know, what happens down the line. I think, you know, no matter what the situation is with a massive

suspension, he's going to miss a bunch of games to begin with as the process plays itself out. All right. Last one, and we'll let you move on, and we always appreciate it and enjoy it. But you pick the caps to beat Carolina, as we mentioned, but you did not pick them to represent the East or win the cup. Why not? I just think the lightning are really, really good. I think the best offensive team we've had since 1996, best penalty-killing team, best power play, tied the red wings for the most wins in the regular season of all time,

and just not a hole on that roster. If they lose, it's the psychology thing, which I think is an important caveat to remember. But the lightning are under the salary cap, the most well-constructed team that we've had, and the closest thing to a juggernaut that we've had. So it's not an easy sell right now because they poohs the bed in game one. But I still think that overall that's a really special team.

And the capitals, I think the capitals are probably the team in the Eastern Conference that is best set up to take them out, if only because of the confidence that they've built in winning the Cup last year, but also in some of the things that they do well that I think Tampa may have trouble with. But Tampa is my pick out of the east and my pick to win the cup. Greg, thanks as always. Always enjoy it and appreciate it. Thanks, Greg. Anytime, boy, thanks.

All right, thanks to Greg Wischinsky, who's always great talking about hockey, and he'll do so a few times more, especially if the Caps make a big run. All of our Caps coverage here on the Kevin Sheehan Show podcast is presented, by Mama Lucia's. And right now, Mama Lucia's got a Caps Hockey special. It includes chicken parmesan, a chicken parmesan dinner, and a large

pizza. So you get a chicken parmesan dinner and a large pizza. It's priced at $30, typically, can be ordered online at mamaluchia Restaurants.com. But if you use my promo code, Kevin Caps, all lowercase,

K-E-V-I-N, C-A-P-S, you'll get $10 off your order. So use my promo code, Kevin Capps at Mama Luchia's restaurant, at Mamaluchia Restaurants.com, and you'll get $10 off the Caps Hockey Special, which is chicken parmesan and a large pizza. You'll get it for just $20. Pickup or delivery is offered as part of this promotion. Oh, Kevin, you know how my love for Mama Wachia's was legendary back at the old station. When I was heartbroken, when it stopped, literally, I mean, I can't think of a food drop that I loved more at the station than Mama Lucia's. When Mama Lucia used to deliver pizza

to the station, they would do it in the middle portion of the day, which is usually when our show was ending. And the only thing that could get Tommy to stick around rather than high tailing it out of there when the show was over was Mama Lucia delivery. And you'd wait until four or five o'clock. No matter how long it took. Absolutely. Count me in, brother. So, Mama Lucia, right now, you can get a really good special. You can get $10 off the $30 chicken parmesan, large pizza delivery if you use my promo code, Kevin Caps. A quick reminder that we are on a lot of platforms. We're on all the Apple podcast platforms, iTunes. We're on Google Play, Spotify, Stitcher, tune in. Aaron, I think we're on radio.com now. Someone had mentioned that to me. I'll check with our provider, but I think

we're on radio.com now. But if you're on iTunes in particular, subscribe really helps us, doesn't cost you anything, and rate it. That always helps as well. And for those that want to listen to the show, have them go to the Kevin Sheehan Show.com if they're struggling with listening to a podcast, which many apparently do. So it's there on the website. website Kevin Sheehanshow.com or the Kevin Sheeonshow.com both send you to the same place and you can listen to the show there. Sounds good. Yeah. What else did we have today? Kevin, I got a big day ahead of here. I know. So what your day? I got to go write a column. I'm heading over to... What's your column going to be about today? Well, actually, my column's going to be something that we discussed a long time ago.

It's going to be about Josh Rosen and how if he comes to Washington, he's probably going to bring some political opinions with him here too. Because he's got some, particularly from school, some political baggage that he'll bring, and it's very possible that we could be looking at a player for the first time who may publicly speak out about the Redskins name. We've discussed this before. I know we've discussed it before, but do you have any information that you will? No, then that needs to be addressed before they ever deal for him.

Well, because this is a guy who wore an F. Trump hat. We had some concerns that he could be. And he definitely, he's got some strong, he's a strongly opinionated guy, although we didn't hear any of that in his first year in Arizona. I know, but you're writing a column where you don't have information. No, and I'm making that clear. I don't have information, but the idea is at some point, they're going to run into a player who's going to publicly say something about that,

because, you know, only one out of ten Native Americans may be offended by the name, but a lot more millennials seem to be offended by the name. And boy, do they want to tell the Native Americans about what they should be offended by. And he comes from that generation. I understand that. You know, you say that it's going to happen one day. I don't know that it hasn't already happened where the team had a sense of a player they were going to draft or sign in free agency said,

I don't want to come here because of the team name. We don't know that that hasn't happened. And in fact, I would bet that it has happened. You know what? I don't know anything, but I bet somewhere along the way they got an inkling with a draft choice or a free agent that that particular player would have an issue coming to the Redskins because of the team name. That may be. It may have happened already. Look, there was a referee who didn't want a referee games in the NFL that we didn't know about for years because he was offended by the name. He was the guy that ended up being on CBS is one of the worst.

Oh, he was terrible. Why were we blanking on his name? I don't remember his name. He was the referee guy on CBS who was just awful. Every single time he reviewed a play for the broadcast team, he got it wrong. Well, he would have been great for Red. Mike Carey, Mike Carey. He would have been great for Redskins game said.

Yeah. You know, the other thing, actually, you mentioned this to me before the show, but I'll just give you a chance real quickly, is to weigh in on magic. That's right. Getting just abruptly quitting without even mentioning it to Jeannie Bus. You know, my first thought about Magic LeBron? No, was that all this stuff about being this great entrepreneur

is all fraud. That somebody else behind the scenes was really doing the business. And Magic was just the guy put in front. That, you know, this great businessman narrative, does this sound like a great businessman to you? It's funny that you said that. And I did not say this yesterday.

I've thought about that with respect to, a lot of former athletes that have been successful in business before, about how much is it their business acumen versus just leveraging their brand and their name? Remember this. Magic is a terrific face to anything, a positive face to anything, and he is a very good and warm communicator. Like people love magic. You know, a lot of people in business may not have great. business acumen, but they end up being great salespeople because you know what? At the end of the day, everybody likes that person and they want to buy from that person. Magic as a super likable person and with this huge brand to go with it could have been their best salesperson

in the organization coming into a meeting, you know, yucking it up with people, maybe having a, you know, a high level understanding of what the deal is. But without him, you're not going to get the deal done, but he may not have, I don't know what the answer is here, but it wouldn't shock me. That's my thought. My thought that he's not the business genius that he's been made out to be. You know, the business genius thing, though, again, could be what I'm describing. It could be.

It could be. It could be. Now, maybe because of his brand and his, the magnitude of magic walking into a room to close a deal, but maybe he's also what we think, what I think he is, intuitive, which is probably a great guy to sit down and have a conversation with, and at the end of it, you'd probably want to buy something from them. But, you know, that goes for a lot of people in business. Not everybody has terrific business acumen.

They just may be great salespeople. And by the way, more entrepreneur, it's more important to be a great salesperson to be successful in business as it is to be a great, you know, numbers cruncher, much more important. Okay. Because without the revenue, brother, you don't got anything. Okay, all I know is he, I mean, the way he acted here and the... Are you upset about him just quitting up, up, just without...

Well, I don't care because, again, it's the NBA. It's Kardashian level. This is the way they act in the NBA now. It's ridiculous. I was surprised, though. Really? Yeah, I think it's unprofessional. Well, it is.

And again, to what you just said, I guess anything goes. and some people said about magic, well, anything goes with magic. He doesn't need to tell anybody, but he's magic, and everybody loves him and understands, so he'll get away with it. But, you know, when you're there and all the stuff that happened this year, the Anthony Davis thing, the disappointment, the expectations that they didn't come anywhere near to living up to, I don't know, if you're going to abruptly quit, I think it's probably pretty professional to go to one, the person that you claimed is the person that you're closest to.

Right. The daughter of the father that you played for all these years. Did you read the story about her? She found out about it driving to the game and said, turn this car around. This is all you need to know about the NBA. Anthony Davis wore a t-shirt to the arena the other night for the last game that said, that's all folks. When he was questioned about it yesterday, he said, I don't pick out my clothes. They're put out for me in the morning. I don't have a choice in what I wear. I did not see that. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's the NBA.

How juvenile. I mean, seriously, that is a lack. That would make me fearful. I know how great he is. Whenever we have these conversations, people say, are you serious? You don't want Antonio Brown or whatever? But it's like, that is so immature that it's scary immature,

that he doesn't pick out his own clothes. That's his answer to that, which can't possibly be true. But if it is true, it's an even bigger concern. I know. And I'm going to watch the NBA play. Are you kidding? I love the NBA playoffs. I do.

But yeah, the other thought I had immediately and mentioned this is somehow this is LeBron influenced. Like what I'm sure it is? I mean, LeBron says he was floored. Okay. But what organization has LeBron been in over the last decade that if a coach got fired or hired or something else happened in the high levels of the organization, your first thought wasn't, well, LeBron must not have liked him or LeBron must really like this guy. But it is magic.

So, I don't know. I think Tommy ultimately what he said is probably true. He wasn't, he couldn't be magic anymore. He couldn't get on the phone and mentor a young player or have a conversation with an old friend about a team. You know, because it would be a tampering charge. Right. Like he got, it was twice, I think he got hit with tampering charges. So, and the scrutiny, you know, when you're that great of a player, he wasn't a good coach,

and now he wasn't a good front office exact. And that kind of scrutiny, when you're, you know, when you're not, you're not, you're scrutiny when you've been successful in everything, including business, regardless of his true contribution to it, uh, it may have been too much. Well, then he should have, I, I still root for him. Don't you? Oh, so do I. I mean, like you and I have both said he's, he's, he, arguably the greatest player.

He's my number one has ever, ever been. Uh, but, uh, and, you know, if, if, if, I give him credit for getting out, however he got out, which was kind of unseen. rather than keep trying to do the job and diminish his legacy even more. Yeah, it's just that if you, it's hard to get out legacy, you know, tainted free when you quit after an absolute abject disaster of a season. And you don't even, you know, this isn't even something you tell people that you work for that you're doing. And you know, I don't think Laker fans even care of the, because he's magic.

I think Laker fans are just as upset with LeBron. Did you read that story in The Athletic about how LeBron had distanced himself so much that the young players didn't trust him? The Anthony Davis thing was a fiasco. It was poorly handled by everybody involved, including Del Demps in New Orleans who got fired because of it. Alvin Gentry said after their finale the other night, it's the most toxic, worst handled thing he'd ever seen in his 30-plus years in the NBA. But the young players distrust LeBron, and there was a quick story in that athletic story about LeBron and how he was distanced from his teammates, that Rajan Rondo, when he was out with an injury, would show up for practice, would be there to help mentor some of the younger players. And then before a trip, he showed up at the airport with cookies to give to his teammates.

That was Rajan Rondo. No one really liked as a teammate. And they sort of put that side by side with the way people felt about LeBron. You know, LeBron, if I were a Laker fan, I would be pissed because it really does have the appearance. I know there were injuries. He had injuries. He was the most injured year in a long time. But it really, the way he handled the year would have made me think as a fan.

He just came here to start his second career. Yeah, his entertainment empire. He doesn't care about winning anymore. Yeah. But anyway, all right, we done? I think we are, boss. All right, you'll be at the game tonight. I'll be talking about the game here tomorrow with somebody.

We're going to do some draft stuff tomorrow as well. And enjoy the day. A lot of sports going on. Yes. All right, and Tiger just missed a short of money. There's golf going on, which I know you won't watch any of it. Thanks to Aaron, thanks to Tommy, thanks to Scott, and thanks to Greg Wysinski. Have a great day.