The Kevin Sheehan Show - Who Did Washington Really Want In Draft?

Episode Date: June 2, 2023

Kevin opened the show with a message to NFL Owners...vote already! He also recapped Game 1 of the NBA Finals and had NBA TV's Chris Miles on the show to help. Additionally, the Commanders put out a video that revealed that they were interested in trading up two spots with New England in April's NFL Draft. Who did they want to pick and why? Plenty of speculation on that.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. Yolkits again. Falling away. Got it again.

Back to back buckets by Yokic. And it's back up to 14. 27 points, 14 assists, 10 rebounds. The ninth triple double for Nicola Yokic in these 2023 NBA playoffs. One guest on the show today. We'll talk much more about the game last night with Chris Miles from NBA TV coming up at the end of the show.

I've got a couple of thoughts on the game in brief coming up here momentarily. The show today brought to you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.com or MyBooky.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., for a chance to secure a first deposit bonus of up to $1,000. You have to use my promo code, Kevin, D.C., when you sign up. It's easy to sign up, and then there will be an opportunity to use a promo code if there's something written in the promo code section, erase it, and write Kevin D.C. They've got all of the NFL prop bets already for the 2023 season. All of the week one NFL lines are up. And game two, Denver, is a nine point favorite again in game two. MyBooky.ag, my bookie.com use my promo code. DC. I want to start with something before I get to the NBA game last night in just a few thoughts. And I just want to share this with everybody because, you know, this isn't something that I'm reporting necessarily.

But as it relates to the sale of the team, Tommy and I have been talking together, and I've mentioned this probably even without Tommy, that it's gotten to the point where it's like, come on already. You know, vet the new owners, you know, get the structure of the financing right, and ratify Josh Harris and his group as the new owners of the Washington commanders. My God, I mean, this was a dream come true for all of you in the NFL ownership circle. I mean, if somebody told these NFL owners, the other 31 of them, you know, a year ago or even eight months ago, hey, eight months from now, Dan Snyder will have already chosen to voluntarily sell the team, and then there's going to be a buyer who's going to pay $6 billion for it, and it's a guy that's already a partial owner in the league already, and he owns two sports teams in other sports.

If we tell you that you get that, but you've got to vet him and ratify him faster than you usually do, would you do it? They would have jumped at the chance to do that. To see Dan Snyder voluntarily sell, to get rid of the biggest nightmare in the league over the last 23, 24 years, certainly in the last three to five years. I mean, they were worried that the only way he would go is if they voted him out. And I don't know that they would have ever done that. And so Josh Harris has, you know, a larger group. he has some leverage because nobody else stepped up to buy this team. Tillman Fertita did, but for basically a half a billion dollars less roughly,

there was not overwhelming demand because there just isn't for a purchase of that size with the restrictions on ownership that the NFL has right now. So Dan voluntarily sold. You had a guy that stepped up. You had a guy that stepped up and may have overpay. paid, which by the way increases everybody's home in the neighborhood. He is doing them the biggest favor. And yet, here they are lollygagging on getting him approved, ratified.

So I talked to a few people this afternoon and actually had a conversation with somebody who intimated the same thing over last weekend. The owners could get this wrapped up quickly if they wanted to get it wrapped up quickly. The owners absolutely could vet all of the limited partners. They could work with Josh Harris to get the Finance Committee to approve the structure, which really isn't that outlandish. They don't want leveraged buyout situations for teams. They don't. But the team's going to go up in value eventually.

The team's going to produce ridiculous. cash flow. It's not like they're going to go broke. And they could, if they wanted to, vote on this thing. But I've been told that one of the issues is that right now, they don't want to be inconvenienced. You know, it's June, July, and they're, you know, off to their summer homes or they're traveling the globe or they're on their boat somewhere in, you know, the south of France or on the Amalfi Coast, or wherever they are, wherever they are, wherever they, especially, this time of year. And God bless them. They've earned it. But this is, you know, a unique sale. Like Denver, they didn't approve the Walton and Penner Group, and it was an easier sale to, you know,

accept and vet because, you know, basically they had more than enough cash. But they, you know, got to August before they came back and ratified them last summer. And that's what I'm hearing with respect to this sale as well, is that it could get done now, but it's not going to get done more likely than not until the end of July or early August. One of the reasons is that the owners have to be together to vote apparently. They can't vote via Zoom or conference call? Seriously? I just look at this sale as different. Number one, there wasn't overwhelming demand for it. Number two, the owner that's selling, they have desperately wanted out. He's been an embarrassment to the league for years now in a market that has vastly underperformed.

Like, you know, maybe let's get it done. Let's get it done faster. And oh, by the way, you know, a market that's been dying on the vine for two decades, it was one of your premier markets in the league. one of your premier fan bases, a fan base that was a big part of the NFL's meteoric growth in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, you know, when the NFL became unequivocally the number one beloved sport in this country, in league in this country, and Washington was a big part of it. How about inconvenience yourself a little bit and get the hell back here and get this thing ratified

so that the fan base knows that it's done, and by the way, the organization can start to operate like a functional organization. Like, you know, there are things to do before the season starts. There are decisions to make that Ron Rivera has said, we've got to kind of put on hold right now, Cam Curl's contract extension. What if, what if, you know, knock on wood,

what if Sam Howell got hurt next week during minicamp? and they were interested in Jimmy Garoppolo or even a Teddy Bridgewater who's out there. I mean, would they be able to do it? They can't even communicate with Josh Harris' group right now. Josh Harris has no ability in his group to do anything with the franchise that they're going to own once the owners get off their ass and ratify this deal.

This deal's just different than recent purchases. And we've got a stadium decision to reach, you know, in the coming months. And we're losing two months. Now, is it like, you know, is it a two months that's going to devastate the franchise? No, but my point is it's like, Josh Harris has done you guys a favor.

He understands he's joining a very exclusive club, and they're appreciative of that, I'm sure. But what you're doing to them and what you're, by extension, doing to this fan base, and this organization because you'd be inconvenience to vote on it right now or vote on it by conference call

or by Zoom is just ridiculous. I mean, Josh Harris and his group did you, the 31 owners of the other teams, a huge favor. Huge. There was nobody else willing to pay $6 billion,

which was Dan's asking price. Now, you know, it's part. possible. They just want, you know, Dan to wait for his money. Maybe that's it. Maybe they hate Dan so much. They're like, yeah, we're going to vote on this in August. You're going to have to wait another two months before you get your $6 billion. By the way, what's it costing him in money? Not to have that $6 billion or whatever the net of it will be, $4.5 billion, $4 billion, whatever the net, you know, proceeds are after the sale. Imagine how much that money earns on a daily basis. So maybe they're just, keeping that from Dan. But, you know, they're keeping our fan base and the organization from moving forward. It's time to move forward. You know, it may be inconvenient for all of these owners to get it done quickly, but they can get it done quickly. It's been months now. All right. I wanted to give you my quick thoughts on the game last night, and then again,

Chris Miles will join us and we'll go into detail a little bit more. But look, Nicola Yokic was awesome last night. You know, it's rare when a player completely controls a game without scoring, which is essentially what he did through, you know, the first two and a half quarters of the game. He ended up with 12 shot attempts for the game, 12 for the game, and he scored 27 points. He was 8 of 12 from the floor. He had 10 assists at halftime of the game.

He's such a great passer. That team is so unselfish, of his lead. And it's a really good basketball team. Jamal Murray's a special basketball player. And, you know, he was 11 of 22 last night. I actually thought it was better than that. But if he's going to play that way and Yokic is going to play the way he played,

it's really tough no matter how many ways Spolstra tries defensively to slow Denver down. And he tried a lot last night. They played multiple zones. And by the way, I complained about Boston zone offense and said, oh, my God, there are CYO coaches that could have beaten that zone. And Missoula had no prayer of beating it. Well, you saw what Denver did, right? You saw, you know, there was somebody in the middle. Lots of times it was Yokic.

There was somebody on the baseline or in that short corner, and they shredded it. You know, they played man. They switched a lot of their man to man. and they had a bad matchup early with Vincent on Gordon. I mean, you know, Aaron Gordon was the number four overall pick in the draft back in 2015, 2014, 2013, somewhere around there. I mean, he has had a really good career. He's a great player.

You almost forget because of Murray and because of Yokic and Porter Jr., who is an outstanding player as well. but they attacked that matchup. And then this was what I talked about with Tommy yesterday. I think one of the more interesting things was to see how Miami guarded Denver. And the first part of that was transition defense, which they did a great job. They did a great job getting back defensively. But in the half court, they were shredded.

And I don't know what the answers are. They're not big. And so they're going to be taken advantage of there. You know, I was texting back and forth with a couple of my coach friends that are here locally. And I mean, I thought, you know, maybe like some kind of boxing one on Murray and you just don't double Yokic and you get beat by Yokic on twos with, you know, bam against Yokic in the paint. You can't double Yokic. He wants to pass.

You've got to force him to be a score, which of course he's proven he can do. I mean, he had a game in this postseason where he went for 53. You know, he's gone for 39, 43, 30, 32, 34, 30. I mean, he scores a lot of points. He's averaging 29.9 in the postseason going into game one last night. But you've almost got to force him to think and default to being a score because as a passer, it is, it's devastating. And then offensively, look, the heat missed a lot of shots, you know,

and I think they were open shots. You know, between Caleb Martin and Max Struz, I mean, it was a pitiful night shooting the basketball, and a lot of those shots were wide open shots. Struce was 0 for 10. Martin, who was great in the Boston series, I couldn't miss in the Boston series, one for seven. Duncan Robinson was one for six. I mean, actually, in a game in which I never really thought Miami had much of a chance,

and I'm more concerned after one game, and I don't want the one game to be something that influences the way I thought yesterday, which was this will be a longer series than people think. But, man, it was convincing last night. But even with that said, like if Martin and Struce and Robinson, shoot poorly, not horrifically. They're in the game. Those were all open shots. And then I'll end with this.

And then we'll come back to game one and looking forward to game two Sunday night with Chris Miles in the final segment of the show. Jimmy Butler's been a great player during this postseason, elite. It's been playoff Jimmy from start to pretty much the last three games. Now, I think he was outstanding on Monday night in game seven. He didn't shoot it great, but he was aggressive, and he was great on both ends. But starting in game five and then in game six against Boston, and then for sure last night, he's been so passive. Now, last night, he may have, if Struz and Robinson and Martin had made some shots, Butler probably would have

ended up with 13 or 14 assists in the game. You know, he was trying to make plays. And, you know, he wasn't like staying out of the offense altogether, which is what we kind of saw in game six for most of the night last Saturday night. But Jimmy Butler last night had his playoff low of 13 points. He had 14 shot attempts in the game last night. It's not good enough. He has to be much more aggressive as.

a score. They don't win without him being an aggressive score. They just don't. You look at all of the games they've won in this postseason, and you look at the shot attempts. Milwaukee, 27 shot attempts. He had 35 points. They won the game. They beat Milwaukee at home. He had 19 shot attempts. He was super efficient, 30 points. His 56 point, 56 point performance, 28 shot attempts. 33 shot attempts in the closeout game against Milwaukee. Against the Knicks, the shot attempts, you know, they won games with him shooting 22 shots, 21 shots, 17 and 16 shots. So he wasn't as aggressive in that series, but he really didn't have to be. You know, they won that series going away.

And by the way, he averaged in that series 24 and a half points per game. Then in Boston, in the first two games of that series, 12 of 25, 12 of 25, 35 points, 27 points. He's also not getting to the free throw line here recently. He did in game 6, but a lot of that was down the stretch of game 6. No free throw attempts. In fact, a playoff all-time low for a team, two total free throw attempts for Miami. They weren't aggressive going to the bucket, you know, in part because they had a lot of wide-open jump shots and they didn't make them.

But Jimmy Butler's got to score. And Sunday night, you know, I said this after Saturday night before Monday night's game, that he's going to have to score and he's going to have to be aggressive. And he was much more aggressive Monday night. Well, he's going to have to be aggressive, super aggressive on Sunday night. Because Jimmy Butler is scoring 13 points on 14 shot attempts with no free throws. They've got no chance. I mean, they really have no chance.

Now, last night, again, I would say that weirdly, he could have ended up easily with, instead of seven assists, like 14 assists, if Struce Martin and Robinson had knocked down some of the shots that he created for them. But they didn't. And they lost, and they lost by 11. By the way, Miami did have on that final possession a chance to cover or push. The line was nine. I ended up playing Miami plus the nine, so I lost. Not for real size, but I just took a small, small taste on Miami plus the nine last night. And look, they were down 22 at the end of the third quarter and it looked dead.

And then they came back in the fourth quarter and they finally started to make some shots. They got it down to at one point down to nine. And I think there were still three minutes to go when it was a nine point game. And then they had the ball with 20-something seconds left. And Nicola Jovich off the bench because Spolstra had subbed out all the starters. He drove the lane and essentially had a shot, knocked off his knee and out of bounds. But that could have been for the push there. But didn't get it.

They lost by 11. All right. When we come back, before we get to Chris Miles, did you see? the video that the commanders put out about the entire first round of the draft and what was going on leading up to number 16 overall and what we learned from that video. I want to talk about that when we come back. We will do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. It's a voluntary time of year. I'm grateful for the guys that are here. I think we're getting a lot of good work in. really establishing our culture and putting in a lot of good work, you know, and I'm just appreciative of the guys that are here.

Have you talked to Chase at all, and what can he do when he's not at the facility to help, you know, speed up that process when he does report? What can he do what now? What can he do to maybe speed up the process or help him ease back in when he gets here? Just be here, you know. And when he gets here, get to work. Jack Del Rio yesterday after he was asked if it matters that Chase Young's missed OTA days. By the way, that was the last OTA day of the week.

I think it's the last OTA day overall. They've got a mandatory mini-camp next week. And then I think that's it until training camp. But you don't need a translator. I hope you don't to know what Jack Del Rio thinks. I mean, he told you for all intents and purposes. yeah, it's a voluntary time of year, but I'm grateful for the guys that are here. I think we're getting a lot of good work in, really establishing our culture and putting in a lot of good work,

and I'm just appreciative of the guys that are here. And then when the follow-up question came about whether or not he's talked to Young and what he can do to speed up the process when he gets back, just be here, and when he gets here, get to work. I mentioned yesterday that I think they floated Chees-Young out there before the draft. and that they just didn't get anything with their feelers that was, you know, worthy of even considering it. And the bottom line is not picking up the fifth year option tells you all you need to know about where they are right now, which is their belief is that there is a better chance than not, that at the end of 2023, they're not going to want him back, certainly not going to want him back at $19 million for that fifth year,

19 and change or whatever it is. So that is what they told you by not picking up the fifth year option. If you think it's anything else, I think you're wrong. I mean, if they really thought there was a good chance they were going to want him back after 20, 23, they would have picked up the option. But the bottom line is they think there's a better chance that they're not going to want him back at the end of next year. And again, as we said at the time when they didn't. pick up the option, it may not even be their choice. There may be a whole new staff in place

that'll choose to franchise tag him or choose to try to sign them to a long-term deal. Look, I'm still hoping that Chase Young proves everybody wrong and has a big year and lives up to the talent and doesn't hold it hostage. But my reaction or my suggestion to him when they didn't pick up the fifth year option was to show up for everything and prove that they made a big mistake by not picking it up. But so far, you know, it doesn't look like that's necessarily his mindset, but as we know, the proofs in the regular season putting, not in OTA days. However, Del Rio told you kind of what they, he and I think a lot of people out there really think of the situation.

Now, there was something that I watched early this morning, and maybe some of you have seen it. It's a 21-minute video that the team put out about the drafting of Emmanuel Forbes in the draft just completed last month, or now, you know, end of April. And it's a really entertaining video. You know, it's edited well, and you see Ron starting his day at home and his wife wishing him good luck on the draft. and Ron arriving in the building in the war room, and at the same time you're seeing Emmanuel Forbes down in Mississippi, and it builds up to the time in which Washington took Emmanuel Forbes with the 16th overall pick.

But we learned something from that video. Washington tried to trade up two spots with New England to number 14. And they weren't able to pull it off. New England wanted a third rounder, for Washington to move up two spots. They were going to send a sixth rounder back with the 14th overall pick. So they would swap by two spots. Washington would get a sixth, and then the Patriots would have gotten Washington's third rounder.

But Washington didn't want to do it for a third rounder. They were willing to do it for a fourth rounder to move up two spots. So they would have given up the fourth round selection. Their fourth round selection, by the way, was Braden Daniels. They used that fourth rounder. But New England wanted their end of third round pick, the compensatory pick that they got for Brandon Sheriff, losing Brandon Sheriff. And Washington didn't want to part with a third rounder. And in fact, you see Marty Herney on this video going, nope, we're not moving.

We're not moving. By the way, at almost every turn during these conversations that Martin Mayhew is having with New England, Martin finishes every conversation with, I've got to talk to coach about it. Ron Rivera has the final say on all this stuff. I'm not suggesting that that's breaking news, but you really see it play out in the interactions between Mayhew and the Patriots and then Mayhew and Ron. Ron's got to sign off on it.

And Marty Herney's kind of in there, you can tell, as a bit of, you know, almost another very senior voice on this. So what did Washington want to do by trading up two spots to New England spot at 14? Well, one of the things you learn is that, you know, by watching this video, Emmanuel Forbes is definitely on their very short list. They love the player. And by the way, when they picked him at 16, the celebration, Jack Del Rio, Brett Vistelmeyer, all the defensive coaches, oh my God, they are through the moon over the selection of

Emmanuel Forbes. They are super excited about Forbes. But would they have taken Forbes at 14? Were they trading up with New England to 14 to select Emmanuel Forbes? Ben Standing doesn't think so. His hunch is that they were interested in moving up to 14 to select Lucas Van Ness, defensive end, Iowa. Now Lucas Van Ness got picked at 13 by the Packers.

So Washington ultimately, if Van Ness, if they got in a fort, you know, if New England had come back and said, we'll do it for the fourth rounder instead of the third. Washington wouldn't have done the deal. They would have held firm at 16 and taken Forbes there. I don't think they were trading up to 14 to take Forbes. You know, I kind of agree with Ben.

Ben spelled it out. Like, they were going to get Forbes at 16. They were going to get them at 14. New England, by the way, eventually traded that pick to Pittsburgh. and Pittsburgh gave up, by the way, in that trade, a fourth rounder. They actually moved up three spots and gave up a fourth rounder. So Washington would have given the fourth rounder to move up to. New England eventually took 17 overall, one worse than Washington's position,

and Pittsburgh's fourth rounder. Now, Pittsburgh's fourth rounder may have been a better fourth rounder. I actually didn't check on that. But anyway, the bottom line is New England. traded out of that position anyway. But imagine if Washington had decided with Lucas Van Ness on the board, if he had been on the board at 14, if New England had said, all right, we'll take the fourth, Washington makes that trade, they take Lucas Van Ness.

I'll tell you what it means. Just the fact that they may have been interested in taking Lucas Van Ness. And there is a spot in this video where they learn that Lucas Van Ness is. has been picked by Green Bay, and they say, all right, Lucas Van Ness is gone. That means we'll end up with more likely than not the choice of two corners, Forbes and Gonzalez. But if it was Van Ness, who they were thinking about at 14 in pulling off a trade, if he had fallen to 14, that tells you even more about their feeling on Chase Young.

And by the way, if that had happened, like let's say the Packers picked Broderick Jones and then Washington pulled off the trade to move up two spots with New England, and Washington takes Lucas Van Ness, defensive end to Iowa. I think Chase Young wouldn't be on this roster right now. I think there's a chance that they would have just, at that point, dealt him, you know, for somebody's fourth rounder in the draft, or whatever they could get in the midst of the draft. Interesting.

You know, maybe it's possible that they just wanted to move up two spots to ensure that they didn't miss out on Forbes, that they thought New England might take Forbes at 14, or maybe that the Jets might take. I mean, the Jets weren't going to take a corner. They took Soss Gardner last year. So they knew the Jets weren't going to take a corner. Anyway, something to just think about.

You know, putting these videos out, you learn some things. I love the video. But, you know, that is, to me, if Ben's hunch is right, and I kind of agree with Ben, that tells you even more about the current state of how they feel about Chey Shung. And by the way, I would add this. If they do feel that way about Chase Shung, like their expectations are super low,

if that's true that they are. They drafted two defensive ends. I mean, that's kind of further proof, right? They ended up taking two defensive ends in the draft in the fifth and seventh rounds. So if they didn't get the guy they wanted, there are some edge pass rushers still available. Leonard Floyd's out there. Frank Clark is out there. Those guys are probably too expensive. But Ingaquay's out there. In Gokwe's out there. In Gokwe, Terp, Jacksonville, had a couple of rough years in Minnesota and Baltimore, and then the last two years,

nine and a half and ten sacks. I think you could get him for one year. I don't know. eight, nine million bucks with some incentives to get them up to, you know, 10 to 12, um, somewhere around there. I don't, you know, they're, they're going to create more cap space with the Norwell stuff here. Um, if they really, look, I want this defense to be dominant this year. And I think sweats are really good player and we know how good their interior is. You know, if they don't feel like they've got a legitimate, you know, game changing pass rusher, at the other defensive end, why not go get In Gokwe? I mean, right now, I mean, I just kind of have this hunch that if somebody offered,

you know, now you're talking about next year's draft. But if they had gotten Van Ness, I don't think Chase Young would be on the team right now. I could be off on this. And Ben's hunch on Van Ness, and that's what they wanted by trading up, you know, had he been there at 14, and he wasn't there. But all of that, you know, this is, you know, tea leaf reading time of the year. But it's interesting. And that video was actually worth watching.

It was well done by the team. All right. Chris Miles will join me. We'll get back to the NBA to finish up the show right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right. Jumping on with us right now from NBA TV is Chris Miles. Chris was in the market here in D.C. a few years back. He does a great job covering the NBA for NBA TV.

You can follow him on Twitter at Chris Miles TV. So let's just start with last night. Describing your words, what happened last night? I mean, truly, it just feels like, you know, the bigger, better team during a regular season is healthy and came out after having nine days off and prove their dominance. I mean, the Denver Nuggets, you know, they had the best record in the NBA last year. You got a guy who's a two-time MVP could have been, you know, three times in a row in Nicole Yolkich and Michael Porter Jr. Aaron Gordon.

I mean, they're just bigger and better essentially at every position and it showed in game one. Yeah, it did. And, you know, I thought, you know, it's interesting because I want to get into the game last night and then talk about the rest of the series. But I've said this a few times, Chris, in the last. couple of weeks with various people, including, you know, Legler and I were talking about it on this podcast last week. I don't know if they're getting enough credit. Maybe they won't until they win it, and I think they're going to win this series. I think they're one of the better teams that we've seen in several years. They're selfless. The ball moves. All five men are involved. All five of

their starters are outstanding players. I mean, have you thought about Denver in terms of of just how good they are if they're on their way to a title compared to recent champions? Yeah, really, I look at it as if they're healthy, they would have played in the finals before them. This is a team that went to the conference finals in 2020, you know, and essentially LeBron and the Lakers were, it was their time as opposed to the Denver Nuggets. And then, you know, Michael Porter Jr., when they drafted him, he had injury concerns. set a career high in games played this year. Of course, Jamal Murray. We all know the bubble Jamal Murray jokes, right, of how Grady was there. This is the first season

where he's back to being that caliber player. And Nicole Yokic has emerged. It's an MVP, right? And the perennial all-star and all-M-V-A and all that stuff. So when you look at this team, this feels like the start of something special, that this should be a championship. And, you know, we should see them and maybe, you know, you know, you know, you know, in the box or another team battle it out for the next five and six years. Yeah, I agree with you. And it's funny because, you know, at the trade deadline, remember how much activity there was and how much the West changed.

And it was like, wow, Denver has had this great regular season, but now Phoenix has KD and the Lakers improved and, you know, will the Warriors get healthy, et cetera? And it's been a wild postseason. But the nuggets ultimately were the most consistent team all year. And I think you're right. That's a good way to look at it. They just haven't been healthy. And losing Murray, obviously, was a killer in previous postseason.

So back to last night for a moment. So Denver has the long layoff. They look like the fresher team to me. But there's something about Jimmy Butler in the last three to four games. You know, really starting probably in game five, but more so game six in the Boston series. And look, I think he had a great game seven. but he was 12 of 28. But he's looked incredibly deferential, almost reluctant.

Last night was really the ultimate in this stretch. I mean, he only shot 14 times. The 13 points are the fewest for him in the postseason. You know, he was a playmaker, and if, you know, Struz or Martin could have knocked down a shot, he may have ended up with 12 or 13 assists in the game. But are you sensing and from your seat watching with all of the guys from NBA TV and all the guys from TNT.

What are you guys seeing with Jimmy Butler? What's going on there? There is certainly a lack of aggression, right? And to your point that you're making, they're one and four now in the playoffs when he scores less than 20 points. And so you've got to think if you're Miami, all right, you've got to get to that benchmark

or else we don't have a shot, right? Like, that's just point-blank period. But when the other guys did you just mention, Duncan, Struce, Vincent, right? when they went, what was it, two for 26 from the field, I think it was two for 13 from three-point range, that you're not going to win a game when the guy, I'm sorry, I said, Dave Vincent, Caleb. Yeah, you're talking about Martin. When a guy was a runner-up for the Eastern Conference Finals MVP, right,

when those three guys who have been that critical to your success are getting, you know, destroyed on a defensive event on switches, and have no legs left to hit shot, like you're not going to win. Even if Jimmy Butler tried to have one of those Hercules performances, man, there are just so many things wrong. But I do think coming off a seven-game series as in facing a team that has had nine days off,

these are the results you should expect to see. I know a lot of us say, like, oh, you're fresh, and you get back out there and you play. I don't know about all that, especially when the other team, you know, Denver, this is where they've been the past couple of years, and Miami was an A-C. So I got to take that for what it's worth. But do you, I agree with all that, but do you think there could be something wrong physically with Butler? Remember, he turned the ankle, and he missed one of those games in the Knicks series.

I actually thought in game six on Saturday night, he looked sick. I mean, something was, that was the game where something, he just wouldn't shoot. and I know he ended up with more shot attempts than even you would think, but even last night, the passing on open shots, does anybody think that maybe he's not physically right? I mean, that could be the case, but I feel like that happens, like, you know, team loses and whether it's going to be like, oh, look, I got to pass somebody.

That typically happens. I also think that, let's say that is the case, So let's say it's not the case. When I watch him, when the game is over and before the game, there is his very relaxed, nonchalant way about him that I don't feel like that's a guy that's injured. Right? Like, he could be. No, you're right.

And I would never say, oh. Yeah. But he has come across confident, a healthy, like, I'm playing cards before the game. I'm drinking wine and beer. We're good. Like, that to me is really more his attitude. I just feel like at times he turns it on. I truly think about the game two performance against Boston where they were down

and it wasn't a great William headbutted him and he decided to turn it on. He was being passive that game as well. So I just think he's a guy that feeds off emotion. And when you see him turn it all the way up, you think that's how it is all the time. But go look at his numbers. I mean, what we're seeing right now is typical Jimmy Butler. And when we see those top tier performances, that actually is the outline. Yeah, that's playoff Jimmy.

And the other Jimmy is a good player, but not a great player. So Denver is, I think Denver's an interesting team, in part because they've got a guy that's a two-time MVP, and yet you know this. You know, unless you're an NBA fan like you are and like I am, if you're the casual sports fan or the casual NBA fan, you may be watching. him for the first time. So when you, you know, have to describe Nicola Yokic to somebody in your life that is a casual NBA fan, do you push them to watch them as much as I do? And if so, what do you say? Well, first of all, you know, I played point card, right? And that's how I see the game. So for me, Nicole Yokic is how I would tell someone to play basketball. Right.

So if you can dominate a game and only take five shots, you're way more dangerous than a guy that shoots every time because you have made your teammates better. And whenever I had to Joe Al-N-Beed Niccoli-Yokic conversation with people, I'm like, they're not in the same class. I get that Joel Inde is actually a better defender, but Nicola Yokic brings everyone around him to a higher level. And what I mean by that is remember what Aaron Gordon was before he was playing with Nicole Yokich, right? Yeah. I really do feel like, okay, you give Nicole Yokic Tobias Harris. Devise Harris is going to look like a completely different player because he knows when he cuts he's going to get the ball.

He knows if he moves, he's going to be open, he's going to get the ball. And you see that effort on both ends of the floor. I mean, Michael Porter, Jr., my God, this is the guy that refused to play defense, is now blocking shots and, you know, slamming home putback dunks and being an effort player. That's because he's being rewarded for those efforts. And that all starts with Nicole Yokes.

I mean, Jamal Murray with 10 assists. This is a guy that didn't pass before, right? Like, now he's a guy that can get you a double, double with the assist. So I just think that a lot of credit goes to the Joker and what he brings to the table. And for me, so much fun to watch, but say, if you really want to understand basketball, that's the guy to watch. Yeah, couldn't agree more. And, you know, everybody on that team because of him is unselfish.

It's been a pleasure to watch them throughout. All right. So last night, you know, one of the issues was, I mean, Spolstra played multiple zones. He switched in man. He tried different matchups. Nothing worked defensively. And I think, you know, it's something I talked about yesterday here on the show, is that that was going to be the most interesting thing to watch is how were they going to guard Denver? First of all, by the way, and I said this in the open of the show, I actually thought they did a phenomenal job in transition defense, you know, was something the Lakers did. not do. They got back. You know, the the, the nuggets didn't really shred them with, with their, with their pace or their fast break. But in the half court, it was a rough night. What, what changes between now and Sunday night? I think, man, if anything can change from the heat, they have to dirty up the game a bit, right? Like, one of the things that was missing, if you really pay attention to that game, that felt like a dinner, didn't run up. it didn't feel like a Miami Heat game, right?

Like, I pointed to the Grant Williams incident against Boston, like, barking at each other. Oh, yeah, this is what we're doing now. Like, it just felt as if the Nuggets were running this passing clinic and shooting 60% from the field in the first half up by 17, whereas the Miami Heat were kind of like, should we start playing hard now? Should we foul them on this lap?

Like, what should we do here? It was a tentative nature to everything about them. and I think if they're going to have any shot this series, which I don't think they have a shot this series, they're going to have to be the dogs to bring this fight pulled. Yeah, that's interesting because I was thinking, you know, is this one of these things where they've got to completely change everything? Like they've got to, you said dirty it up. I was thinking at one point, you know, they got to muck this up somehow. And by the way, that may also be on offense where, you know, they let Bam, you know, attack.

you know, in transition, in secondary transition. Everybody had a green light last night to shoot threes even early in the shot clock. Shots that they had made in the Boston series, they didn't make them last night. And by the way, if Struz and Martin make shots last night, like if they just shoot poorly instead of, you know, horrifically, they actually may have had a shot. They would have been in the game more.

But maybe the pace has to slow even more, muck it up, play a lot of, you know, a lot of different defenses, which they did last night. But, you know, I was feel this way, Chris, like when you watch a series and you watch one game, that it's really wrong to come to any sort of definitive conclusion after one game. But after last night, I did feel like Denver just is too good. The one thing I will say that Miami can figure out to at least get a win in this series, or get hot. And that's when, you know, the open shots are not the same as they were in a Boston business, right?

So in Boston, when they would have an open shot, it was pass, pass, in rhythm, catch, shoot. You understand? In Denver, it's almost like this herky jerky, like, who's open? Oh, we're swinging. He's open. And, like, there's a perfect shot. Duncan Robinson was open at the top of the key. And he, like, dribble twice and shifted his leg.

He was so uncomfortable. Yeah, I know the one you're talking about. Yeah. And it's because the offense was out of rhythm. And that is a result of the defense forcing the offense to be out of rhythm. It can't be overstated, right? And so, yes, it's an open shot, but it's not the same open shot. It's not catching in rhythm, running your play, and just taking a shot you're familiar with.

It's like, oh, I'm open. So much pressure to hit this because we're shooting bricks. You see, complete different ball game. Yeah, but I do agree with the part where you said they were open because they missed a lot of open shots, but I completely understand what you're saying. You know, the catching in a rhythm with feet set off of a pass as you're spotting up two passes away, you know, expecting it is different from, you know, Jimmy driving baseline and then coming back the other way and throwing it to Martin who's running into the corner because nobody's there.

We're talking to Chris Miles from NBA TV. So I'm assuming, based on some of the things that you said, that you really liked Denver before this series, did you think it would be a short series before it started? And if you didn't, do you think it will be now? Yeah, I mean, put it this way. I made the joke, so I'm covering the finals in every game that's in Miami. And my joke was, man, I would love to make two trips to Miami.

me. I guess I'm just making one, right? Like, that's how I feel about it. I'm like, all right, game four, maybe a game five, I'd be surprised that there is one, definitively not going to be a game six. That's just how I see it. And I said that before the series, and halfway through game one, I was like, I didn't want to be right about this. You know, I wanted this to be a longer and better series. I just don't think it was. Yeah, I thought it would be before it started, which was definitely more of the, you know, contrarian minority opinion that I thought we had a chance to see a really long series. Last night was deflating, but, you know, it could have been because they played game seven Monday night. They're traveling to Denver. They're getting acclimated. And by the way, if Tyler Heroes back next Wednesday when they get to Miami, that could be a difference for the heat.

I mean, it depends on his readiness and his health. But, you know, he would have been. been a difference throughout this postseason, not that they necessarily needed him to get to get to the finals, but it would have been nice to have Tyler Hero throughout. Well, I tell you this much, coming back from a broken hand as a guy that's supposed to handle the ball and shoot, I feel like that's one of those things that it's going to take him a week or two, right? And they need it immediately. So can he have an impact? Sure. Will he have an impact enough to win the series? highly doubt it. What's the best part about working in those studios with NBA TV and TNT? You get to hang out with Barkley and Shaq and Kenny and all those guys? Yeah, and actually I'll have NBA

final coverage for Miami with Kenny Smith. So we'll have him on shows for the pregame and post game for games three and four. But the best part is actually two things. Well, it's probably 10 things, But I'll put at the top of the list is, you know, a lot of times when they're filming, when inside the NBA is on, I come off the sets from my show because we have our free game before there. And in commercial breaks, the jokes are 15 times better than the jokes than they make air. Right? Yeah. So, like, it's still, we could still hear the air check on a black screen. So it's like a black screen, and it's Chuck, Jack, Ernie, and Kenny.

and typically like, you know, one or two visitors, those visitors can range from like Marky Mark to Chris Tucker, right? Like on any given day you don't know Michael B. Jordan, they'll just be in there, and they'll just be clouded, whoever it is, stuff they would never say on air and that I would never repeat. And I'm like, oh, this is amazing. Like, I wish someone else could experience this.

This is its own TV show that we'll never see, right? So I think that's, I would say, a top part of it. And another part is, you know, watching the games and just like being anywhere else, at work. I mean, you know, if you're at 1067 a fan or, you know, D. May, and you see De Mitch, and he tells you something from, like, a game, and then you can just have

a conversation. I mean, it happens organically here, like, Shaq, I remember in the first round of playoffs, he's watching the Holyokech, and he's getting up mocking not a bad way, but like just copying the Koliokic's like, see that seal, got the best big in the game.

Watch this, and he's like, Chris, look at this, and he's pointing out all these things, I'm like, man, Shaq is more animated and excited and exuberant and breaking it down now than I've ever seen him on the show. I get to experience that. You know, like that's a really great thing to see and to see him at his moment on the show with Nicole Yokic. It's just priceless. I mean, I couldn't quantify that. Yeah.

No, I can imagine that that's so much, so much fun. All right. Last one, and I'll let you run. Tell me what you think, if you have an opinion about what the wizard's, have done with their hires here over the last week. They hired Michael Winger from the Clippers, and then yesterday they hired former Hawks President of Basketball Ops, Travis Schlank, to be the senior VP of player personnel. They still haven't hired their GM.

They're going to hire GM as well. If you don't have a strong opinion about it one way or the other, that's fine. But I was just curious since you've paid attention to this team over the years if you had an opinion about it. well here's a deal right and with front office people you can run the gamut because i'll say this i've spoken to people who travis slink didn't hire on coaching staffs that are like yeah this guy didn't hire me for this reason like and that's all they say about him so it's not really negative um but at the same token i go look at his track record of drafting and it is certainly a lot better than the

wizard's track record of drafting right like um you go down a list he gets credit for or being rapped for Draymond Green, the Trey Young move, which is obviously a win for the Hawks, in the sense of like getting an extra draft pick and, you know, having the success of going to Eastern Conference finals and being competitive again.

John Collins drafted him. Nekka Kung, like a lot of guys who have really hit that weren't necessarily guys that you were sure we're going to hit. So I do like a whole train, a change of train of thought. to the Wizards as well. It was time, and it feels like, you know, having some new faces around there who have had success in other places like the Clippers and the Warriors and the Hawks.

I think it's just, you can't, it has to be better than what it is right now, right? Like, you have 10 teams in the Eastern Conference that make it into the plan, and you're not one of those 10 teams, that's absurd. You should be one of those teams every single year. So especially if you have a guy who makes, you know, top five money in the league in Bradley Biel. So I'm interested in to see what happens in the next two to three years more so than I've been in a while for the winter. I mean, do you agree with me that the first thing they have to do is try to move Bradley Biel in that contract? Well, no.

So here's a thing. Anyone that knows me knows, including Brad, I'm sure he's heard this by now. I bang on me like, all right, this team's going to improve. who are you, right? Like you got to move Bradley Biel. But now the return on Bradley Biel is not what it was. So you lost it, Wizards, you lost the time period to capitalize on it. And what I'm saying is, if you traded Bradley Biel when he was making less money than Otto Porter and was leading to league in scoring, right, 2020 and 2019 in that time period, you could have convinced the team looking to compete for a championship to give you a future All-Star in like eight draft picks, i.e. Shea. Gildeshs Alexander and the thunder

for Paul George, right? But you could have pulled something out, pulled something off like that. Instead, you kind of held, you didn't do anything in the postseason, and now teams look at that contractor, like, all right, we'll give you Kyle Lari, Duncan Robinson, and two late first round picks. Those are the kinds of things you're going to get in return. So it's like, is that what you're trying to do? Well, I totally agree with you. I mean, I sort of advocated this for this, you know, much before now. I mean, they miss their opportunity to truly bring back a haul.

But that, to me, that doesn't mean you continue to compound the mistake. For the next four years to pay him $50 plus million a year, when he's a really good player, but he's not an elite player, you're then pretty much set up to try to win $40, 41, 42 games a year and make the play in. I'd rather, you know, I'd rather start over and take swings in the draft and try to land, you know, a true future top five to top, you know, 10 player that gives you a really good chance. The funny thing, Chris, is, Bradley Beals is a great guy. He's a great ambassador for a franchise that right now might be

dead last in this market in terms of popularity. I mean, they're irrelevant in. I mean, they're irrelevant in this market right now. And it's a shame because you know what kind of basketball town this is. If they were ever legitimately good, I think it's the number two in town personally. But he's been a great guy. He's a very high-level score. But now we're getting into a point where he's just not even available, you know, a lot of the time. And you're never going to contend for an actual deep run in late May and June if he's

your highest paid player and your best player? I concur with that assessment, and look, you can look at the San Antonio Spurs and what they just did and got Wembe Nama, right? I'm not saying you're going to get the next Victor Wimba Jus. Just saying in order to put yourself in position to at least do that. Now, what's really interesting is the draft in two years from now is going to be absolutely loaded, right? Like most teams in front offices kind of look at that like,

you might be able to get two franchise players if you have two top 10 picks. You understand? Like, that's the way they're looking at that draft. That's one of those drafts that if it plays out the way that people think, it will. I'm not paying attention to it. So people that are listening aren't paying attention either. Most people aren't. So who are the players?

Carlos Fuzer's son is one. There's a kid in the NBA Academy that I've called two of his games. he's 7-2, 250 pounds, and shoot threes, right? This is the 20-25 draft you're talking about. Cooper Flagg, who some people think will be really good. I think I kind of have more, the Gordon Haywood. And this kid, I'm trying to get his name right. He's a guard out of Ohio.

I could see his game. He plays with Team Adidas. But, man, I mean, you're talking, some say could be as good as Kobe Bryant. I watched him with Jamal Crawford, and Jamal Crawford said, yes, I think he's Darren Peterson. I'm hearing, like, you know, coaches rave about him the way they ran about Zion and John Moran Salon. Okay? So here you have a class where I didn't even touch on, like, one or two other guys that

I haven't seen myself that people are saying are better than these kids, right? And so to put in perspective, Carlos Boozer's son, Cam Boosur, was a sophomore, and he was named national player in the year. not for his class, but for like he was a sophomore named Naxa player. Right? Um, 16, shoot for three, plays above the rim, all of those things. So my point that I'm making is if you're the wizard going to your point, yeah, man, this is the time to do it. You go ahead and you move Brad, you're bad for a year or two, you develop guys.

And when that draft comes, um, you should have two top five picks in that draft, right, depending on the moves you made. and that does seem like a good plan. Like I could get behind a bad season or two to get the draft capital to make that the move that you're doing going forward because I think those kids are that special. By the way, I pulled it up.

It's actually the 2026 draft, so it's actually three years from now the player's names that you were mentioning, which means by the time you get them and they mature and you're a contender, You know, they're going to be, I hope I'm around for it. But we're talking in the 2030s at that point. But I would love to see it.

Anyway, look, I always enjoy our conversations. Keep up the good work. I've been watching a lot of the NBA TV stuff during the playoffs. It's been great. Hope you're well. Talk to you soon. Yeah, I mean, let's say it this way. When was the last time we were excited about the Wizards in the playoffs, 2017?

Well, that plan may seem for a fact. I mean, better than what we've been seeing for six years. It's true. And, you know, those few years where they were winning series, you know, they actually were winning first round series, and they were close, as you know, the year they lost to Atlanta in the conference semifinals, I mean, John got hurt, and they could have been in the Eastern Conference Finals.

And look, if John doesn't have, you know, a dreadful game seven, By the way, that was one of Beal's best games. Beal, in that Boston series, Games 6 and 7. Wall had the game winner, you know, and jumped on the table and said, this is my town in game 6. But it was Beal, who was incredible in both of those games. And they almost got to an Eastern Conference finals then. But even then, they weren't going to advance to the finals,

more likely than not with LeBron in the way. All right. Thanks. As always, talk to you soon. Great talking to you. All right, that's it for the show today, back on Monday.