The Kevin Sheehan Show - Who Has The Most To Prove?

Episode Date: July 11, 2025

Kevin opened the show answering an email about him using "stop digging" when he talked about the old name this week. Ben Standig jumped on from Las Vegas to talk Wizards Summer League before talking Commanders and joining Kevin in a discussion about who among the Commanders' players and coaches has the most to prove in 2025. Rich Daniel/Owner-DC Divas was Kevin's guest in the final segment to talk about the Divas' championship game tomorrow in Pittsburgh but to also reminisce about the George Michael/Glenn Brenner/Frank Herzog/Steve Buckhantz days of DC TV sports. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. The show's presenting sponsors, always, Window Nation, 86690 Nation, windownation.com if you need new windows. I've got two guests on the show with me today.

Ben Standing is going to call in from Las Vegas, where the Wizards open up Summer League play tonight. But we'll talk mostly football. and we will answer the following question. Who's got the most to prove in 2025? Players, coaches, anybody in the Washington football organization, who's got the most to prove? Ben and I will discuss that when he is on with me.

Also joining the show today, Rich Daniel, Rich is the owner of the women's professional football team in town, the DC Divans. We'll talk about their championship game tomorrow, but we'll also go back in the day and talk about the heyday of sports TV in this market, Rich was a part of it, when Glenn Brenner, George Michael, Frank Herzog, and Steve Buchance were fighting it out. This from a devoted listener to open up the show. A devoted listener.

subject, listeners upset about your new stance on the name. It's not really a new stance at all. But a devoted listener writes, Kevin, I think the part of what you've been saying the last two days that is primarily responsible for upsetting listeners is the stop-digging comment that I heard you repeat. There are a couple of problems with this statement. First, as always in life, did the virtue signallers who pretended to be offended by the name and lobbied for decades for it to be discarded?

Did they stop digging? I'm about three to four years older than you. I remember three separate huge attempts by outsiders to try to make the team change the name. The first one was diffused by Jack Kent Cook when he hired a Native American woman to sign the national anthem. actually I think he meant to say sing the national anthem at the stadium. Secondly, the absence of the name is a constant reminder that the team was forced to cave to outsiders with an agenda who don't care anything about the team and put those interests above the interests of fans like us who have supported the team our whole lives.

That reminder, which is like a thumb in our eye, needs to go away. Thank you for that, a devoted listener. You know what? I agree with you to a certain degree. Stop digging is probably not the way I should have described. By the way, a position that I've had for quite some time. My position has been Redskins is never coming back. It's not a new position.

I have emphasized that and said that many times. But I did say this week, you know, and added to, that thought, it's time to stop digging. I don't want those of you out there that still believe that the old name isn't dead. I don't want you to stop fighting for it. I really don't. I love the passion. I feel that passion. You know, stop digging means you're just getting deeper and further away from getting out of a hole. And the truth is the hole can't get any deeper on this. Dig all you want. And I appreciate that email because I probably,

I actually thought about when I said it a few times this week, maybe that's not the right way to say it. And you're right about that. Dig all you want. Don't stop fighting for it. Don't stop believing that it can come back. And by the way, I want it to come back. I hope I'm dead wrong.

I think for me, though, what I believe to be true is that the, league isn't going to return to the controversy and challenges business-wise that the name presented the league with for a long period of time, you know, three plus decades minimum. You know, it wasn't always the number one, you know, list of annoyances on the league list, but it was always on the list. And I just don't know that going back to the days of needing to explain a way, that one of their 32 teams has a name that is dictionary defined, in some cases, as racist or insensitive, I just don't think going back to that is a possibility.

I think it's a total non-starter for them because it's a non-starter for their partners who feed them $26 billion a year in revenue. Again, I've said this many times recently that if the name had not been lost, it'd still be here. They would continue to deal with the annoyances. They would continue to deal with the league partners who would be very upset because their shareholders and their customers would be upset. They'd continue to deal with it because it would still be here. But the fact that it's gone, to bring that back, I just don't see it.

And I think Washington's ownership understands that they would never be able to do it for those reasons. And of course, many of us would love the league and the team to say, you know, so what that you feel that way or your shareholders feel that way, Apple or Amazon or FedEx or Anheiser Bush. So what that your customers may complain? You know, they are, you know, virtue signaling. They are in the business of being offended. are pretend offenders, not all of them, including not all Native Americans. But I do agree that many are too conveniently offended or even worse in the business of being offended.

And we all know that there's no slam dunk answer to this debate. There never has been. You know, the other side has been the ones that have wanted to steer clear of a debate because they felt like dictionary defined, insensitive, pejorative, racist was a mic-drop moment, even though we know that that definition, you know, alone is debatable as to whether or not that's really what it meant. But we certainly know for the last 75 years that's not what the words meant. But I think the league recognizes that even if they were able to change the minds of, those that feel like, you know, the dictionary defined, the dictionary definition is a mic drop

moment. Even if they were able to work on it and change the minds with real information and real data, like the data we understand to be factual, you know, that the majority of Native Americans actually feel either the opposite of those that have been fighting supposedly on their behalf to get rid of the name, or they're indifferent to it. Yeah, there's a lot that they could use to go back to their $26 billion worth of partners and say, sorry, but we're going back to this because it just, the reason you feel that way, there's no basis for it. It doesn't matter because there are plenty of others that will stay the course, regardless of what's thrown in their face, and try and succeed in keeping. The annoyance and the controversy alive.

You know, during the time in which they had the name, I remember that one of the arguments from those that didn't want the name, they would say, would you ever start a business with a name that was dictionary defined anywhere as racist or insensitive? And I would say, of course not. But that's not what we're talking about here. We're not starting a new team. This isn't an expansion team.

This team's been around for 80 years, 85 years, 90 years. This is an existing brand that's worth billions of dollars. So it's not really relevant as to whether or not I would start a new business or a new franchise with that name. And that's kind of after it was taken away in 2020. Now we're back to, would you start something? would you bring the controversy when it doesn't necessarily need to be brought? Because the name's gone.

I hate it. I think it's silly. I think it's always been silly. I think 2020, the summer of 2020, a lot of things were silly, including the loss of this name. Dan brought it on himself with a different owner,

with a more tactical, a more strategic, a more empathetic, you know, a more decent, owner, maybe it wouldn't have happened, but it did. But look, I'm with you. I hate this. I would love to be totally wrong on this. I would love, you know, that, you know, the president gets involved. However it could come back, I would love it to come back. I just don't think it is. But I probably

shouldn't have suggested stop digging. I think I stopped digging because I just know that this isn't going to happen. So I've been looking for the solutions. in between. Mine has been Washington football team, logo back, old uniforms back, let's use Washington as the outward, you know, brand, and let's all call them the skins. Anyway, did you see what Mike Rizzo did today? Mike Rizzo, through his foundation, Riz Kids, put out a thank you to Nats fans and then actually provided a gift with that. He wrote, it's been an incredible ride, the wins, the losses, the championships, the celebrations, and everything in between. It's been an honor to be the president and general manager of your Washington Nationals.

From the bottom of my heart, I want to thank each and every fan who has supported my goal to lead this franchise to greatness with integrity, honesty, and professionalism. In the process, it is my hope that we've created memories for you and your family to cherish for a lifetime. DC has become our home in every sense of the word, and I could not imagine a better place to have done it together than right here in the nation's capital. We will remain committed to the district through the Rizzo Family Foundation and continue to support children and families in our community who need it the most. And then, as a way to say thank you to the fans for 19 amazing years, on Monday, July 14th, between 5 and 7 p.m., before the home run derby begins, Mike Rizzo is going to buy a beer for anybody at Penn Quarter Sports Tavern or Walter's Sports Bar. Class Act, he's always been that, God, I wish him the best. And yes, you did provide. and you were a big part of providing and creating a lot of memories.

Eight years, five playoff seasons, the most wins other than the Dodgers and a World Series, is the best run other than Gibbs from 82 to 91 that any of the professional sports franchises, the four majors, has had. Caps haven't had a run like that because their run, you know, look, they won a Stanley Cup and they've been in the playoffs, but they were getting knocked out first round, second round, et cetera, and it's much easier to make the postseason in the NHL. That run from 2012 through 2019 is only bested in this town for major professional sports teams by Gibbs Version 1.0.

That's it. All right, let's get to Ben Standing right after these words from a few of our sponsors. I introduced many of you to Goldbelly a few months back, and I want to keep talking about it today because Goldbelly has the most iconic famous foods from restaurants all across the United States, aggregated on one amazing site, and they ship it free to your door anywhere in the country. They'll ship you iconic Chicago Deep Dish Pizza from Lumal Notties. Had that. They'll ship you New York's best most famous cheesecake from juniors.

had that delivered. If you're craving barbecue, they ship the legendary Franklin's barbecue straight from Texas to your door. And you have to try the one and only world-renowned stone crab delivered from Joes in Miami. So if you're looking for that perfect gift or want to impress your friends and family with an epic meal next time you host, go to goldbelly.com and get free shipping and 20% off your first order with promo code Sheehan. That's goldbelly.com code sheen for free shipping and 20% off your first order. This segment of the show brought you by Window Nation if you've been struggling with this heat and humidity. If your home has been uncomfortable even with the air conditioning on full blast,

you should think about changing your windows because they're probably too old. And right now, Window Nation is running a really good offer. In fact, it's their best offer of the year. 50% off on all window styles and no interest charged until the year 2030. That's right. Zero interest for five whole years. Plus, they'll finish the job in one day with installers who average 16 years of experience. They'll be in and out of your home.

In one day, your home will look nice. than it did when they arrived. This is real easy. You call them at 86690 Nation or go to windonation.com. Mention my name to schedule your free in-home estimate. It doesn't cost you a thing to have them come out to your home when it's convenient for you in an hour or less. They'll leave you with a quote. They won't bother you or pressure you or obligate you to anything.

You can shop the actual offer if you want. but I don't think you're going to work with a better company that has better product or right now has a better deal. Window Nation, 86690 Nation or windonation.com. Joining me right now, Ben Standing from Las Vegas, Nevada. I think I'm going to be heading out there for a quick weekend next month. I haven't figured it out quite yet, but Ben is out there. He's working. It's not pleasure. He's working. He's there for the NBA Vegas summer league, and tonight,

The Wizards play their first of four Summer League games in Las Vegas. They will face the Phoenix Suns. Nine o'clock. You can watch it on ESPN. You can watch Trey Johnson. You can watch Will Riley. You can watch all of these first round picks from the last four years on their roster now. We're going to talk some football with Ben. But this is. has been like a tradition for you, not even when you're working in terms of the NBA Summer League, right? This has been a trip that you've enjoyed making for a few years now. Yeah, I think my first one was John Waldorf, a year 2010, and I've gone pretty much every year since, maybe a couple times I couldn't for whatever the reason, and yet not every time

it's been for work. It's, you know, I know a lot of people that are going there, a couple of my friends typically go. And, you know, it's always interesting to see the first round pick. Sometimes it's really interesting, and sometimes it's Johnny Davis. And, you know, in between. And yeah, so I'm look, Vegas is Vegas. It's a fun time. You can't stay for too long, as you know, but get in, get out, and, you know, have some fun in between. You know what's interesting about the NBA, and I know you'll have thoughts on this. For, I don't know when NBA Summer League basketball became a thing for fans. It wasn't always a thing for fans. But the NBA's smart in that they have their playoffs extend until mid-June. Then the draft is almost immediately after that. And then after that,

they get to see all of these drafted players in Summer League. Because here's the thing, Ben, when they start their regular season, it is somewhat anonymous, just like everything is during football season. In many ways, this is almost necessary because October and November and December and January, in the in-season tournament, I guess, has changed things a little bit. But look, I'm a pretty typical sports consumer beyond the job that I have. But, you know, it's a lot of football and more football. And then I love the NBA playoffs. And I love the NCAA tournament. and I like the World Series. You know, this is kind of where the NBA is.

This is a time on the sports calendar to try to capitalize a little bit, don't you think? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the NFL is, you know, relatively speaking, quiet this time of year. You know, this is the one break where, you know, NFL writers don't have to be somewhere, and the teams can be away as well. So there is that. I think it's also, frank, let's be realistic. I think it's necessary just to have to have.

have the fan base of the individual teams learn more about the guy they're drafting. You know, you didn't need an introduction when Patrick Ewing was coming out of college, and Kristen Leitner, or guys like guys who stayed, you know, multiple years. I mean, even the Fab Five was Weber, Chris Weber stayed at least two years. And they were, you know, one of the biggest stories in basketball. Now, it's a lot of one in Don's, and even then you'd always know too much about the player. And then there's, you know, the international players as well become more prevalent. So this is a really good introduction. And I think, I would just say, like, you know, you can't always get caught up in the hype.

You know, Glenn Rice, Jr. was the Summer League MVP one year. He looked great, and then it's completely fell apart. But the other hand, you can see when guys do not look apart. And when Johnny Davis was there a couple years ago, it took us about five minutes watching the game to realize this was never going to work. And I think that's what's interesting about it. Obviously, hopefully it's all for the good, but you at least get to see. them going up against, you know, other guys who are essentially NBA, going to be NBA players.

There's also older players in this. It's not just, you know, 19-year-olds. There are older guys who come over from overseas or either trying to get attention from the league or, you know, it could be attention from other international leagues that have scouts there as well. So it's a good, it's a good mix, and it's a really good opportunity to see who these guys are. All right. We'll do a little bit more wizards here. Who are you most excited to see for them tonight? Yeah, I mean, Trey Johnson, obviously, you know, the new guy, the first round pick, you know, of all of their, I think they're going to, I think right now that it's like seven first round picks are on the Summer League roster. They subsequently added two more from the Spurs the other day for the Kelly Lillinger trade, but I don't know if those guys are coming out.

They've played a little bit more in the league, Camp Whitmore, also I don't think is coming out. But you've got the three guys from last year's team, the pick, you know, it's Gray Johnson, actually four times, four times, four. from last year, including AJ Johnson, who they got in the Kuzma deal. And then they've just added some other random guys this offseason as well. But Trey Johnson is probably the one guy other than maybe Alexar, who looks like he could be a potential standout. I don't want to go crazy and say star, but like, you know, look like a guy who's got a specific skill set, an excellent shooter,

and, you know, how does that translate? Can he get off his own shot? You know, again, he doesn't have to go out there and score 30 points in a game to be impressive. but he needs to look like he can get his shot, that he can feel comfortable coming off a pick or whatever the scenario is. It looks as you want it to look.

If he can do that, then people will be happy, and that would be a great fit, because the one thing this team, again, it's all potential right now, but they don't have a guy who's like an obvious score right now. He could be that guy, and that obviously would be a big deal. But, you know, I don't know how much we're going to see from Sar or Carrington or Kishon George, frankly. Maybe it's one game.

Sometimes these guys just go out there to practice. with the team and ultimately don't play. But, you know, I can see them playing one game and that being it. But Craig Johnson, I would imagine, would play the whole time. The Wizards have 11 first-round draft choices from the last four drafts on their roster. Not all of them are on the Summer League roster. I talked about this the other day, and I even got this from some of my friends who were just ecstatic over the Cam Whitmore acquisition.

I like it. I think it's a trade worth making. but I, you know, I had a friend of mine say, this is going to hurt them because they've got a protected pick next year. They're going to be fighting for the plan with Cam Whitmore added to this roster. I don't see it that way. How do you see it? Oh, I don't see it that way at all. I think they are, they're like, Cam Whitmore, I think it's turning 21 this month, the next month, something like that before the season.

he's going to be like one of the older guys on the team. Like, I mean, all their kids are exactly that. They're all kids, and they're all learning, but there is, you know, I mean, look, the interesting thing for the wizard in terms of that aspect, that they need to be have a top eight to keep the pick if it's outside of top eight, then they would lose the pick. Is it top eight or top nine? I thought it was top nine for some reason.

I think, I believe it's top eight. Okay. The issue is, though, they have guys like CJ McComb, and Marcus Smart and Chris Middleton, Corey Kisper to a degree, all those guys will not be on this team, I would predict, by week one. I think they're going to have to make some moves. What they can do, who knows? Worst case scenario, they can buy some guys out and let them go find a new home.

Best case scenario, you know, you trade them to some team and take on a crap contract that ends after this year, and you get some sort of draft pick compensation as well. But the Wizards are going to do whatever they can to avoid being a bad team. I mean, look, if Alex Sarr and Bub Carrington and Trey Johnson look like they're Durant, Westbrook, and Hardin,

and they finish outside the top eight, well, that's fine. But outside of that, you know, this team will do whatever they have to do, I imagine, to finish well outside of that range, and, you know, hopefully there's progress. You can't lose every game by 30, like they were doing a lot last year, but I don't see this team being a contender for

being the playoffs or anything like that. All right, let's switch subjects to football. So, you know, this is something we knew was coming for a long period of time. But what was your reaction to the new alt uniforms and the reaction to the unveiling of these uniforms from fans, you know, near and far? Yeah, no, you were all over this topic that there were going to be some notable changes. And look, I think this ownership group has done a very good job of trying to build some goodwill with the fans by harkening back to the past. Of course, we mean the Super Bowl era past.

And going back to a uniform combination of from that era is, you know, obviously a great way to do it. You know, the fact that Jaden Daniels last year wore the Doug Williams' throwback jersey, that's essentially what the jersey is, right, that they're going to be using as the alternate New Jersey's was a, I don't think it was a tri-balloon. I think that was just Jane Daniels doing what he thought was a nice gesture. But it kind of worked out like that. I look, look how cool this is. And I think, I think it's such an easy move.

You know, we talk about this, the name change. Of course, that was, you know, very controversial. I never understood why they felt compelled to go away from the uniform combination. I mean, just like, after, you know, watching the tune for a while, you're like, are they still the Burgundy and gold? Like, I don't really know what this is. That never made any sense to me, knowing you're going to upset a lot of people by changing the name, at least make it look the same, and they're going back to that.

And in terms of the reaction, you know, clearly everybody was very, very excited about that. And again, everything is very positive right now with this organization, and this is just another aspect of that, another opportunity to get people happy by, you know, again, harking back to better days. maybe not better days compared to last year, but better days compared to the last 25 years. So, yeah, no, I think, Kevin is like such a no-brainer. It just goes to show how bad the decision makers were before. This isn't complicated.

It doesn't make it look like it did before. Why is this weird? But, okay, now they did it. Everybody was like, this is amazing. Yeah, sure, of course. Yeah, you know, it's interesting because that's been one of the reactions, which is, okay, but this was so easy, this was so obvious. Yeah, but they never did easy and obvious. And the reason they ended up with what they have currently as the permanent is because you had two guys, Jason Wright,

and got them blanking on the Australian from L.A. that came in to help with the whole rebranding effort. They just didn't know anything about the organization. They didn't have a connection to the fans. they didn't have a connection to, you know, the history. And they butchered it. They butchered every part of it, including the name, which, you know, still exists, unfortunately. Because there were a lot of people that were like me very excited to see. I was hoping for that uniform specifically, you know, the championship uniform as I've always referred to them. And they referred to them as Super Bowl era, not, you know, gold pants or, you know,

burgundy tops says the home. I like the white with the burgundy. Those are, that's what they won three Super Bowls in and went to four in. But, you know, a lot of people were fine with that, but said what you said, but that was obvious. That was easy. But it's still incomplete. And I think, you know, one of the things it's become very clear about the last week, last week, you know, when they teased it on the 2nd of July, and then the response to it on social media, There isn't anything they've done since they last played a game that generated the kind of reaction that this generated. Not the draft, not the schedule release, you know, not any free agent signings. It was, you know, one of those situations that for those that have kind of, you know, stood up and said, you know, stand down, you guys are talking about something that nobody cares about.

It wasn't a great, you know, couple of days for them. But that aside, I think, well, I know what it's leading to. It's leading to something more permanent that will look like this. And that's the right thing to do, the easy thing to do. Do you think, and I don't, I think I know your answer to this, but I don't know if you saw on yesterday morning, Mike Floreo suggested that this was like step one to reclassed. claiming the old name. I don't know if you think that this is anything other than just going back to a look and a branding that makes people feel like they're watching their old team.

Yeah, I mean, look, every time something happens in any capacity that harkens back to glory days, everybody wants to look at it as the first step towards for a possibility that they're going to change the name. I'm going to maintain that I just don't see that. I mean, look, if we're going to take Josh Harris and others at their word, they have said that's not going to happen. And, you know, when Dan Quinn talked about Terry McCorn's contract situation during a mini-camp, he said, you know, sometimes, you know,

the football part and business intersect, and that's what we have to deal with. Well, that's kind of what this is as well. I just think the business side of things is not going to allow them to do this. I mean, the reason why Dan Snyder ultimately caved and the NFL cave was because too many sponsors were saying we're not going to, you know, we're not going to support you with that name. And obviously, there were other factors. Even if some people have softened that stance, I still don't think it's going to change broadly. So I don't see that happening. I understand why people may view it as such. And look, I think the ownership is trying to find how close they can get to the line without, you know, How many things can they bring to the table without the name change to get people as excited as possible?

I mean, you maybe would know better than me because you're talking to fans all the time on the radio. But I'm going to imagine a lot of the people who were holding out because, you know, the name changed. A lot of them probably came back to the fold last year because of the success in Jaden Daniels. This is another step. I imagine people were like, oh, cool, that's pretty good. Okay, I'll get past my hangups with the name. There will always be some holdouts. It is what it is, but I would venture to get there.

It was a pretty good job of bringing people back without the name change. So I don't see the name change happening. To be honest, it's frustrating that it always comes up, but I get it. And I don't see it as a first step towards that. But, you know, we'll see down the line. Yeah, I mean, it's not frustrating to me that it comes up all the time, and I think it's not frustrating to a lot of fans. And I don't think they got everybody back.

But I do think that, you know, what you said, like what would have been really easy, I think, and I shouldn't say easy, because I know how hard it is from their end and how costly it is. But if they really wanted to just please the most amount of people other than going back to the old name, which I don't think is a possibility either, it's Washington football team, logo back, uniforms back, we refer to them as the skins, let's move on. I think that that may have been in play through some of last year, but I think they would have had to finish with like a 6 and 11 or 7 and 10 record, not 12 and 5 with two playoff wins,

which gave them sort of this, you know, path of least resistance on the name front. All right, enough of that. Terry McCorn, I guess, you know, this was another opportunity, by the way, the other day for people to kind of look at the video, and look at the photo and not see Terry anywhere and start to talk about Terry again. I'm sure you know this, but I looked this up yesterday.

He's going to get fined $50,000 a day. You know, there's no forgiveness anymore in the CBA of mandatory minicamp or mandatory training camp fines, and it's $50K a day. So I'm wondering, have you thought about that A, B, if you haven't, do you think like I think, which is the best bet if he doesn't have a new contract is that he's a hold-in, that he reports, but he just doesn't work. Yeah, I think the hold-in is the logical move. We've seen that happen with other players in recent years.

And, yeah, I mean, that seems to be the obvious thing to do. And, you know, we've talked about in the past, you know, where's my angst level on this? And I've kind of been saying I'm not, it's a zero. right now, get me to the day before training camp starts. And if it's still not done, then, okay, we can have a conversation. But that's in part because of the fine aspect. I mean, I don't, you know, he's not going to, he's something we've got to give one way or the other at that point.

The give maybe he shows up, but then, like, you know, holds in, doesn't actually participate. So, yeah, I think that's obviously something to keep in mind. There are occasionally some guys who were just so strong-headed that they're going to, you know, sit out. but I think Terry is a pretty reasonable, logical guy. I don't think, I don't see the point in that, again, especially if you're assuming, like, let's say the worst case scenario, they don't get a deal done.

Well, he still has a year left on his contract. Exactly. He's still, it's still over $20 million. He wants to then get another deal. He's got to go out and, you know, play well. So, like, he's not going to, I would be beyond stunned if he doesn't play this year. So he's eventually going to play one way or the other. Therefore, why would you, why encourage he's fine?

for something you're going to, you know, he's not trying to get traded, you know, at this stage, at least I don't think he would at all. So, you know, I don't, I think that's a good point. The holding is the logical way to go. I will just say this, in terms of like people, if they're holding their breath, I checked, because, you know, being out of town, I checked, I was like, hey, can I turn my phone off at all during any of this or, you know? And I was essentially told, you're probably good, you know, people are on vacation.

So you're probably good, but you know, you never know. So I don't think, I don't see anything happening this week, but next week as we're, you know, ramping up the training camp is when it seems to me would seem if something's going to happen, that's probably when it's going to happen. Well, that's news, everybody. You know, Ben, as, you know, somebody who's been on the beat for a while, you know, they check occasionally just to say, hey, I'm heading out of town. Should I be checking my phone every five minutes or am I good? you're saying that basically you got a signal back that said, you're good for a while, which by the way makes sense. I know Quinn's like in Hawaii.

I think a lot of those guys are out of town and on vacation. It doesn't mean that Adam Peters and Lance Newmark and Company can't negotiate a contract from vacation. But if we see something, you know, done, it's going to be when everybody is back. and, you know, 18th rookies report, 22nd Veterans Report. And that's when it would officially become a holdout if he decides not to show up because he has a contract. Remember what Ben said, and we've talked about this, he's got a contract for another year. That's why he'll get fined if he doesn't show up. And that's why he's really got to go out and play, even if he doesn't get a contract extension.

And I think he will play and get a contract extension. Do you have any update on the Noah Brown injury? No, I really don't. Again, we talked about this before. The fact that there's been no update suggests that he avoided any kind of significant, you know, he's out for several months or things on those lines. It would suggest that. And Noah Brown just looking at his Instagram,

not that I've seen him, or maybe he's put it out there, I haven't seen it, but I haven't seen him, like, showing himself working out, but he's like living life. He's not, you know, he's not hold up in a, in a late cast or anything. So it looks like he's okay in terms of, like, the worst case, you know, whether he tweak something that, I don't know for sure, but no, I haven't heard anything official yet on that status. Obviously, the team doesn't have to state anything until, you know, frankly, they don't have

to state anything for the most part until the season starts, but they certainly don't have to state anything at this stage. And then when is the projected return for Sam Cosmi? You know, if you play out, if you say nine months recovery from an ACL, you're probably looking at like October. Late September, early October. I mean, Dan Quinn, when I asked us, just said, hey, we're not going to get any steps, et cetera.

You know, in other words, it's not all in for week one. As we recall. So, you know, it's kind of where I'm looking at right now that, that, I'm, October 1st sort of area, but, you know, hopefully we get a better feel for that. Maybe we'll even talk to Cosme at some point in camp. And, you know, at a minimum, I imagine we'll see him doing something during training camp. I mean, that may just be working with the trainers on the side, but, you know, at least getting a feel for that.

So don't know for sure. Obviously, they have a decent amount of options because of all their moves is offseason, but, you know, Sam Cosby is clearly the best option they have, and hopefully they get them back soon or the later. All right. We'll take a quick break and when we come back with Ben, we're going to talk about the players that have the most to prove in 2025 on Washington's roster. That more after these words from a few of our sponsors. For those of you who haven't rated, we'll review the show on Apple and Spotify. If you can take 60 seconds to do it, I'd appreciate it. It's a big help for us following the show on Apple and Spotify. Hit the

plus button or the follow button. That's a tremendous help as well. All right, we continue with Ben at Ben Standing on X on Twitter. The last man standing is his podcast and give Ben a follow, especially if you're a Wizards fan over the weekend. So I did this on radio today. Who's got the most to prove? And so the way we'll do it is you'll give me your

number one player or coach with the most approve entering 2025, then I'll give you my number one. Then you'll give me your runner up. I'll give you my runner up and then we'll give a couple of also receiving votes. So who on this roster player or coach or even in the organization has the most approve in 2025? Yeah, there's definitely a few candidates that I could look at. I think it'll legitimately have a lot to prove. But, you know, I want to kind of go with somebody who was here last year, but it's somebody who was acquired last year. That's Marciaan Lattimore. You know, that was the first bold move that they made, you know, to, you know, they recognize that we had a week as a quarterback. We also have a team that looks like they're going to,

we're heading towards the playoffs. Let's get some help. They go for this guy who has been a pro bowl player, but was dealing with injuries. He's had, you know, his career had been sort of stock or maybe even on the downside with the Saints and then he shows up here and you know it didn't go that great missed I think of this eight regular season games he was available for he missed six with injuries you know in in in works by Mike Evans and AJ Brown in two of those games yeah and uh you know a lot of questions now fortunately he came back to a mandatory minicamp and was healthy at least it appeared and was you know he was humble he said hey or the last year was simple it was simply not good enough and all that.

But I think he's got a lot to prove. And also, you know, he's got two years left on his deal, but there's no guaranteed money left either this year or next year, but, you know, presumably he'll be here this year. So, you know, if he either wants an extension or just to have that final year play out, he's going to have to play well for him. And then, you know, for this team,

they need, he doesn't have to be necessarily the Pro Bowl player, but he needs to be a pretty competent guy because this division is now loaded with receivers. So, you know, overall, he needs a good showing either to help the team now or to get a contract going forward. So I'll put March on Lattimore number one. Look, that's my number one.

Average minds think alike. And, you know, if we were doing this segment in New Orleans and he hadn't been traded, he'd probably be number one there too, because of all the games he's missed since the 2022 season, he missed 10 games that year. He missed 7 in 2023. And last year, he missed eight games. among two teams. He's got a lot to prove. He is a long way away from when people thought he was one of the top four, five, or six corners in the game. And because he is in a new place,

it's even more amplified. Marshawn Latimore was my number one. There were a couple that were in the running, but I thought it was hard to make the case that anybody on this roster or coaching staff or in the organization has more at stake and more to prove than Marshawn Latimore, you know, entering his age 29 season where the last time he was legitimately healthy and played at a super high level, you know, at this point was when he was 25 years old, you know, turning 26. So Latimore is my number one as well. Give me your runner up. Yeah, you know, again, I think I've got like three names here that I could kind of go with. I'll go with Debo Samuel here.

This is no fun. You were listening this morning. I know you weren't because you certainly weren't awake after your first night in Vegas. No, I go ahead. I've got Debo as my runner up too. Yeah, I mean, I could have gone to Laramie Tunsel because, look, he got traded from a team that's bad office. defensive line and there's questions, you know, he led the league in penalties and all these things. But there, Remy Tonsel's still viewed as a very good player.

And, you know, Al-Dibos coming off a pretty down season for him. And he's been inconsistent in his career. That's monster years with the 49ers, but he's been down. He's going also into, he's going to his contract year. And he's an odd one because he's not a classic receiver. He's this sort of excellent gadget kind of a guy who could play a lot of different spots. You get him ball in space and let him take over. but that kind of guy, when they lose a step, that game really goes south.

And he's got to have to show that that's not the case. And I'm not talking about the micro video or whatever. The people got worked up on incorrectly I view in minicamp about, you know, he looks slow or heavier or whatever. But, you know, he needs to show it for real on the field, and that's going to be a huge deal. If he doesn't, then, you know, he may be, that may be the end of him as being viewed as a top tier, you know, or one of the top receivers in the game.

And again, for this team, they may do last year with a lot of guys who were far less talented than Diba Samuel, but they made the play to get Diba Samuel. I don't care about the fifth round pick. I don't even care so much about the money. It's the opportunity. They have him positioned to be that guy. And if he's not, then, again, it's Terry McCorn and a lot of randoms. And, you know, that's not ideal, but they need him.

And he needs to show that he can still be a top-tier player if he wants to get another deal. Yeah, all of that, and I would just add in the same way that Marshawn Latimore has to prove that he can stay healthy for a season. Debo plays a lot unhealthy, which is why when you look at his box score, you know, or his stats for the season, he plays in a lot of games, but he is always on an injury report. So it's been, you know, basically, again, like Marchon Latimore since 2021, since they, you know, had a truly healthy, dominant kind of season. So, you know, he's got a lot to prove to, as you mentioned, contract year, new team, the whole thing. So I'll give you my also receiving votes because to me, Lattimore was my easy number one.

But then in contention with Debo for my runner-up were Joe Witt Jr., who, you know, first year as a defensive coordinator, had a terrible defense last year. We don't know how much of it was scheme, was talent, but it wasn't good. And I think two straight years of bad defensive results, it'll start to fall back on him. Because I don't really think it felt like anyway. It fell back on him last year. I also had Duran Payne in the mix of players who have something to prove. This is a big year for Duran.

because he is still at 28 in his prime. We know what he's capable of when he's at his best. Maybe with John gone, in some ways, big brother not, you know, looking over his shoulder, maybe it'll be easier for him. But he could easily go the way of John Allen next year, which is moved on from because one year left, but not a lot of guaranteed money left on the deal. I think Duran's got tremendous ability. I think we're going to see it this year, by the way.

I really do, but he's got a lot to prove. And then I've got one other player from the roster that I'll give you, but I want to hear yours first. I don't want to give you all of mine. So go ahead. Who were your others receiving votes? Yeah, Duran Payne was certainly one of them, for all the reasons you've just kind of slayed out. I mentioned Laramie Tonsul, not again, not at the same level of Debo and Lattimore, but, you know, he got traded. And, again, there were some questions about why he's leaving the league in penalties.

leave, et cetera. I guess another guy for me is going to be Brian Robinson. He, you know, look, obviously he's very effective in short yardage, but,

you know, he's not a three down back, has not shown that. I always think he's a better pass catcher. When I watch practices, then it shows it on the field, but ultimately on the field of what matters the most that he's not a weapon there.

He doesn't give you any real, you know, explosive plays, and that's something that this offense lacked last year out of the, out of the back field. So if he's not able to, you know, show he's more than like that interior runner short yardage back, it's going to be hard for him to be a lead back going forward. This is also his contract year.

So I think it's a big year for him. He's got an opportunity, though. I mean, unless the seventh round pick, Jacori Crosky Merritt really blows up. I don't see where he's going to get, or Robinson's going to get any competition for those heavy duty workload. So he's got the opportunity, but now we've got a. he's got to show it. I don't know. This may be,

prove it may be a bit strong here, but I am a little curious about Bobby Wagner. Like, obviously the intangibles are off the charts. He's a great leader. He's going to the Hall of Fame and all those kinds of things. But, you know,

I think, you know, he does not have the same speed that he had when he was a younger guy. He's not the most effective option you could have in the coverage. And because so much was going wrong last year, I don't think too much of the focus was on him, and nor it necessarily should have been. But with Jordan McGee back, with, you know, if this defense is able to improve, you know,

they may have some other options to say, hey, we don't necessarily need this guy out there every play if we think he's a little bit of a liability in some spot. When I talked to him at minicamp, he said, hey, I feel great. I feel like I'm in great shape. You know, worked hard in the offseason. He thinks he's ready to go. No reason to doubt it. But I do wonder, you know, if it's a time.

some point, if the defense continues to struggle, do they look and say, hey, we think we need a little more speed and athleticism out of that spot? That's interesting. That one did not occur to me. I mean, he was really good last year. He was a second team all pro. In fact, their other second team, all pro defensive player, I actually thought about not from he needs to prove that he can play, but he needs to take that next step. It's more about the next step for Frank Louvo, and that would be becoming a dominant pass rusher, if that's what they have planned for him, but I don't know that they do. I had Brian Robinson, Jr. on the list. I think that's, for the reasons you stated, and this is a big year for him, because if he doesn't, you know,

end up being a significant contributor and a healthy one, his opportunities, you know, after this rookie deal ends are going to be limited. You know, I also, I don't like to think about draft choices recently after the second round as, you know, they've got to prove it to me. So I don't think Luke McCaffrey has anything to prove to me. But I do think Johnny Newton's got something to prove this year. You know, he was taken very high. He was discussed by the powers that be that they had first round grades.

A lot of teams did. that they felt very lucky that he was still on the board. He was coming off injuries, you know, from Illinois into the draft. But this was going to be the replacement for John Allen. And, you know, you hope it's not the replacement for John Allen and Duran Payne. But they drafted him with the idea that he was going to become not just a mainstay, but a mainstay is a playmaker up front. So, you know, I look at him and to a lesser degree, Ben,

Senate because the opportunities haven't necessarily been there for him like they are and will be, I think for sure for Johnny Newton. So those were the people on my list. I mean, I was thinking, will anybody say, well, you know, Jaden's got a lot to prove, really? What? I mean, that he can do it again? Yeah, if you want to look at it from that standpoint. But I'll give you one more. sort of random one. Matt Gay, their new kicker, you know, he was a high in the league a couple years ago, and gets cut. Obviously, Washington was going

through the merry-goer end of kickers last year. They hope this is the, you know, the solution. But considering how it will last year, I don't imagine they're going to have a lot of patience if things don't go well quickly for him. And, you know, obviously, we know, okay, if you prove to be a reliable kicker, you can kick forever. So if he can, if he can do that, then he'll boost his career.

and help this team. If not, again, they may say, hey, we're not, you know, we're not going to sit here and wait again. You know, we've got to find somebody. That's a good one. I did not think about that one, and I should have because I always think about kickers. All right, great job. Oh, I had

one other quick question for you that I meant to ask you in the last segment. If they carry three quarterbacks, is Josh Johnson the third quarterback? Or is it Sam Hartman? Like I was looking before preparing for what we just talked about before the radio show, I was looking at the roster.

And I had forgotten that they had signed Josh Johnson, who obviously had been here before. But if they end up keeping three quarterbacks, which they will, is it Johnson or Hartman? Or are they just battling for that third and final spot? And the other one, and Hartman could go to the practice squad, obviously, again. Yeah, for sure. You know, obviously it's, you know, it's hard to predict the 53 right now because, you know, 100 things could happen. But I was, of course, playing with it the other day.

And, you know, I started getting up to it. I was like, man, I kind of need another spot or two here. Where am I going to take one? Or am I going to get one? So I looked at the quarterback. Here's my theory. I actually talked about this on my podcast that's going to come up on Monday that I recorded earlier.

And here's my theory. It was weird to me that Jackson came here in that. He was in the number two last year for the Ravens. So to come here as the third guy when the top two are pretty locked in, you know, it was like, why would you do that? But then I started thinking the key for a guy like Josh Johnson is to continue to stay at top of mind of all these executives, and that's going to come from playing. I don't imagine that Jayden Daniels and Marcus Marietta are going to play much at all in the preseason.

If you tell me they both get two series and that's it, that might be high, right? So Josh Johnson is going to have the opportunity to get a lot of work. Here's my conspiracy theory on this. You know who Josh & Johnson's agent is? I assume he don't. I don't. He has the same agent as Adam Peters. Now, I'm not saying that Adam Peters is like doing anybody a solid.

The commanders are first and foremost, but his agent would presumably know, you know, from talking to Adam Peters, what they're playing to some degree would be. And this may have been simply a great opportunity for Josh Johnson to, play, and therefore it could be, hey, if another opportunity pops up, they may, I don't know if I let him go, but like, you know, maybe they can even trade a seventh round pick, who knows, but like, I doubt it. But like, I think it's a, I'm going to guess it's just an opportunity for him to play. Maybe it leads to him being the third guy, but I don't automatically think of Hartman, we know last year, made the practice squad, presumably he would get there again if they wanted to, and therefore

that might be the third guy if they want. So I just wonder if Josh, to some degree landed here because of the playing time opportunity, where if you go to other teams, they're not going to have the 38, 39-year-old guy, whatever he is, playing over some rookie that they actually want to develop. So I wonder how much that factored into this. Preseason playing time is a theory, but as you were unveiling your theory on Josh Johnson,

I came up with another one that I think is actually more plausible. Jay Gruden has said, no less than a half dozen times to me over the years. Josh Johnson may have been the smartest player that he ever coached. And you mentioned the connection to Adam Peters. He's 39 years old. He's coming here to potentially get an opportunity to start his next football career as a coach. Or as, you know, in the front office.

I don't know what it would be. but perhaps just being a part of this organization going through this training camp, maybe ending up on this roster this year, maybe, you know, as David Blow, perhaps it's David Blow that gets hired after this upcoming season or Tevita Pritchard or somebody, maybe Josh Johnson is in the mix and they know how smart he is and they know what, you know, that he'll be sought after perhaps, you know, in his next football career. and maybe that's the lead-in. I don't know.

I like that. I mean, David Blau is unlikely to be in the same position next year. He was getting interested from other teams this year. And like you said, you know, if Kingsbury were to go, Blau might go with him or he might get promoted up. And either way, that spot is potentially open. So, yeah, that's actually a pretty reasonable thought. If Josh Johnson says, hey, okay, I got to stop chasing this part of the career.

start focusing on the other part. Yeah, that's a pretty good, Barry. Who knew we were going to get five to ten minutes out of Josh Johnson when we started our conversation here? Thanks for doing this. Enjoy tonight, and we'll talk Monday on radio. Awesome, ma'am. See you. Ben Standing, everybody. When we come back, we'll finish up the show, having a conversation with the owner of another football team in town that has advanced to the conference championship game. That more after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought you by, my good friends and my bookie, if you want to bet on sports, I highly recommend to give my bookie a shot.

Even if you've already got a sports book, take the free money that my bookie will give you when you use my promo code, Kevin DC, on your initial signup. If something's written in the promo code section, erase it and write Kevin DC. They'll give you extra cash into your account on your initial signup. They've got everything you need for the upcoming NFL season. Already the Hall of Fame preseason game, which is at the end of this month on July 31st. That point spread is up. The Lions are one-point favorites over the Chargers with the total at 32 and a half.

I know a lot of people that love preseason football betting. My bookie will have it all. The win totals for the upcoming NFL season are up. The Eagles, Ravens, Chiefs, and Bills all have the highest over-under numbers at 11.5. In the NFC, Philly's at 11 and a half. San Francisco is at 10 and a half along with Detroit, and then Washington, Green Bay, the Rams, and Tampa all have over under win totals for the season at 9 and a half. Go to mybooky.orgie.ag for everything NFL related, but before we get to the NFL season, they'll have all the baseball you want, all the tennis you want, all the golf you want. They've also got a live casino with every table game you can think of. MyBooky.ag promo code, Kevin, D.C.

All right. Joining me right now is an old friend. And by the way, when I say old, he's old and I'm old now. But I've known Rich Daniel since the late 80s when he was producing Frank Herzog at Channel 7. And I was working as one of the two or three producers with Steve Buchance. And of course, Ernie Bauer was at the station. and, you know, the guys at Channel 5, Channel 7, and Channel 9 all got along. George Michael's group at Channel 4, they were a little bit, you know, to their own. They kind of thumb their nose at the rest of us.

But Rich is on with me today because Rich is the owner of the DC Divas. The Divas have been around for a while, and they're playing in a conference championship game on Saturday. in Pittsburgh, and the winner of that goes to the national championship game or, you know, their version of the Super Bowl. But you and I were just talking before, and we'll get to the divas and what's going on there. But man, the heyday of the 80s in this town when it came to local sports on television. George at 4, Buck and Bernie Smilovitz before Buck on Channel 5, of course, Joe Fowler was mixed in. there. Frank, Frank on Channel 7 and Glenn Brenner on Channel 9. But I was right. We all got along,

but the Channel 4 guys never hung out with us. Well, that was early on, and we have to, we have to realize when you've been consumed by the sports machine, right? That can be a little all-consuming. And the fun thing was we did it long enough that there was great relationships built up over time, mutual will respect. And, you know, the Wally Bruckner, the Scott Clark, Stumpo, the Dave Silver's, Lou Charlotte, on and on of all the machine folks that really became, you know, friends and colleagues, even though we were absolutely competing against each other. But what a great, it's like the NFC East of Old, right?

I mean, what a great group of names and talents and different types of talent and how good of a market it was for any of us that grew up here to be part of that in any way, perform, brings back nothing but great memories all the way around for sure. At the Super Bowl in San Diego in January of 88, that was when Buck got everybody together, and it was a Channel 5 thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was Frank, Glenn, George, and Buck all together on the same set. And I'm going to butcher this. Of course, Ernie would get it exactly, but Brenner said something to the effect of, you know, if this, if somebody, you know, blows this place up, Harvey Smilovich is going to become the most famous sports guy in

Washington. And Harvey was Bernie's younger brother who was, of course, the weekend guy at Channel 5. That was my first experience kind of working with Harvey on weekends. But Brenner was just, still to this day rich and i worked for buck you worked for frank for me in terms of my all-time favorite it was glen i was a glen brener guy you know before i ever went and worked at channel five what about you we were all glen breeder guys i mean frank worked with him before he went to seven right what buck would tell you he's a brener guy and george if he was still with us would begrudgingly finally admit that he was always a breeder guy to the point where he was a bruner guy to the point where he didn't like it.

Yeah. We always loved it, right, being Brenner guys, even when we weren't together. I mean, I started as an intern there, so I had the great experience of Frank Herzog, Sunny, Glenn, that whole environment of what you grew up on and what you thought about. And Channel 9 was it. You grew up here in the city, the Walter Cronkite, and all that type of thing made Channel 9 it back in the day, and Glenn made it even more so. So to be able to start with them and see that, see that true humor.

see that work ethic, see that ability to really bring a newsroom together, which later in life I drew on that in the different roles that I had and look back at that. So, yeah, you're right. I mean, an incredible group of entree of people, and that photo you mentioned, that grouping was Channel 5, and Buck had to work like heck to get George to be part of it because there was still that old sense of, you know, you're a competitor and I'm about ready to to knock your block off type of attitude versus everybody else. We just really did get along terrifically well.

And everybody did a lot of great stuff. I mean, you think about it. There was so much good content created about what we all cared most about in the city, which is, of course, the Washington Redskin. And all those had shows. We all had relationships. We all went to all the games.

You know, we were blessed to have Frank as the play-by-play guy. That was special, but it didn't make us the only one by any stretch. It was the best city, I think, of all the ones we've ever traveled to or gotten to see. I'll do respect to Dallas and some other places that had terrific people like Dale Hanson and stuff. But I'm telling you, that that D.C. collective for that 20-year cycle, and then Rennie Knott and other people that, again, they just added to that, right? They built on that versus taking away from it. And, you know, it's just an incredible time that has led to a lot of the experiences that ends up leading me to today and talking to you about, still about football.

Yeah. Still about the same colors, but just in a different, you know, in a different time and a different place. But it all comes out of those experiences to explain how I'm here today or why I'm here also about why we're together because we do have another football team in the city that gets you going. And 25 years ago when this started, there was a lot of doubt. as there was reasonably so about whether women could, should, who are they, will they,

and will anybody watch or support or care about it? And we've gone through all of that through 25 years, much like I would say the NFL in its first 25. 25 years. So much like the NFL, and it's first we all work, we all live, we have families, we don't make our living doing this, but we continue to build the level of the capacity. And I guarantee you the next 25 for us will look markedly done. different than the next 25 did for the NFL. They hadn't even gotten the NFL films yet at the 50-year mark, right?

That was just now starting to unfold at that point. So it's going to look very different as women's sports is beginning to for us, but we've had to put all that work, all that sacrifice and dedication has had to be there. And so the women, basically 600 plus alumni now as well as the coaches and volunteers that have made this happen, give me a chance to talk to you today to say, hey, we had to earn our way in a football city to talk about a conference championship game in Pittsburgh with the right to go to the national championship, our Super Bowl at the NFL Hall of Fame. And so I'm excited.

I'm pumped up. If you don't cut me off, I'm going to keep going like a free game speech. I want you to keep going, but I want to interrupt for one second because, you know, when this thing first started, I mean, 25 years, I was thinking that it was more closer to like 2007, 2008, because I think that's when I first became aware of it when I was back in the business. But you've been a part of this thing, almost from the beginning in various roles. How did it come together? How did it start, Rich?

Well, it started, interestingly enough, it was a franchise model from an entrepreneur in Tennessee, and the league was called the NWFL. So the DC Divas actually played in the NWFL for a couple of seasons before the NFL said, that's one too many letters. And it became the National Women's Football Association. So the first two owners were two women. They sold it to a gentleman by the name of Paul Hamlin, who I became the general manager under and with.

And that was about a 14-year, 15-year experience. And then when he was going to retire the team as well as himself, that's when I decided that it was too much had been put into it to just have it go away. and that whether I would be a great owner or not, we're going to find out, because there was just too much goodness to offer, whether it be the community service hours or winning football games, and all the good things that come from being part of a successful team. So 2019 was my first year.

We moved inside of the St. James, first team to play indoors. It was an incredible experience. And then March of 2020, we realized when the Ivy League decided to stop playing basketball, we're like, you know, they're pretty smart. we have to go to work every day. How are we going to navigate through COVID? Of course, the season was canceled in 2020. 21 and 22 were incredibly difficult.

21, we didn't tackle in practice. I mean, there's all types of things that were just ridiculously challenging to get back to a point where now on the 25th anniversary, we just played our playoff game inside again at the St. James, which was a great win over Tampa. You know, we have this relationship with the NFL Hall of Fame where we're playing on the same field. do a week later. The MVP and the national championship team is represented now in the Hall of Fame.

There's a lot of other building points that have been able to happen, but it's only because we didn't quit. We didn't give up. We didn't take the nose or the disbelief parts. And we just kept leaning in, in my view, of why I'm still doing this, because I've been surrounded by such sacrifice, dedication, talent, and passion. I can't just tell that story. I can't ignore that and say I've already done documentaries. I've already done stories. We've already been on this, this, and this. Enough already versus it's in my blood of being covering it on 6 o'clock news in 2001 of May.

Their first home game, we go. We're like, that's a minute 30. It should be an hour. Sales department said if it's not the Redskins, nobody will watch. We can't sell it. We follow them for our own, Mike Springer. You know, yeah. Right.

So that all led to coverage and PR. helping them and then before you know it I'm taping ankles I'm booking hotel rooms I'm filming games I'm doing internet radio broadcast which is hilarious to think about it now because we called it internet radio then people like what is that yeah it's like what's not on the dial but you can still hear it and here's where you can hear it and so it's just this migration of all the sacrifices that collectively keep motivating I think inspiring me beyond anything else I mean, there's business out here.

There's an evolving ecosystem of women's sports. There's a lot of things to pay attention to, but paying attention to us, that group of 60 women, that coaching staff of about 12, the volunteer group, the booster club, you know, our fans that are getting on a bus to go to Pittsburgh, to back us. Rich. ESPN Plus. So how many teams are in the current league, which is the women's football alliance? How many teams and where do the players come from?

So there are 12 WFA Pro teams. There are over 40 in Division 2 and 3. So imagine a collegiate model, which is not currently existing, right, for women to play tackle football. So you have smaller cities, newer programs, different levels of investment that form the Division 2 and 3 and then ultimately the WFA Pro, which is where we are. And then players come from all over the world. We have three from England this year. We had three from Finland a year ago that are basically exchange players that come for a period of four months. Live cannot work here.

Some have to go back and forth depending on job or family situations and participate in our season. And we're not alone in that model now with 30 countries across the world having either club teams or a country that's represented in international competitions. and basically what has happened in the football word is flag has beaten the women's and the men's tackle game to the Olympics. Right. It's transportability. It's ability to play at different ages, now a collegiate model, all the things that are necessary to create that model at that scale. But as that happens, you're only going to create more interest, awareness, and ability in the sport for women. And that's going to lead to more flag, more tackle, more scholarships, more.

more people owning the league like the NFL now, third of the league is now, right? In the next 10 years, imagine over half of that. Well, you could then maybe see the WNFL versus today, too soon, not ready yet for prime time. We're kind of off Broadway, right? We're a little off still, maybe one off. But we're getting closer to what that reality can be,

which is there's enough women that can do it, play at a high level, and then with the right partnerships like the NBA did with the WNBA, you can see it at a level where you're going to say, hey, that's my Sunday night game or my Saturday afternoon or my Friday night or whatever the version of that is, it's going to be the ability to do it will be there. All right. So again, though, like take the DC Divas' current roster,

were they athletes in other sports? How did they become women professional football players? They're playing everything under the sun, and you ask a great question because I've been asked that a lot over the time of doing this. Where do they come from? Because you're not used to seeing a young girl or a woman play tackle football still. And the truth of it is 50 plus years of Title IX has created an incredible universe and an ecosystem that encourages young girls, parents, counselors, and coaches to go play all these other sports to have your education paid for. but yet we have not as a society and as a business model created enough professional opportunities for all those athletes every year they graduate.

So they migrate to some other challenge. And to some it might be kickball in the mall, some it might be rowing. It could be any number of different things, but the reason we have this amount of women interested about 3,500 in our league, and there are other smaller leagues across the country. So every year there's more and more. They come out of this ecosystem of you've been a college athlete, And then what are you once you're not, you don't just turn it off, right? So the majority of them is how do you apply it?

And so we are a bigger team. We give you a chance to learn something new. They're constantly challenged physically and mentally in this sport. And that speaks to a lot of the competitors that have come out of, as you can imagine, all these different divisions of colleges, different types of sports. Or in some cases, a mother who's had several children and says at 35, I wanted to do that, but it wasn't there when I couldn't do it then. I want to do it now.

Oh, boy. And we've had success with that. Wow. So, yeah. That's fascinating. We just have a four-year collegiate player out of Shenandoah. Wow. She played for us in 2021 and 17.

She played four years on the varsity boys team at Shenandoah. And they has come back to us this year and is playing with us as a 21-year-old. Do you have in this league a true superstar, like an obvious? best player in the league? Well, the quarterback position, as you know very well from covering the NFL, it can be a challenge, right? So it's the highest level of men's professional football, and you easily start to break up starting quarterbacks into categories and saying,

well, these five or six are here, then there's there, and then there's the rest, kind of almost off the charts. And it's not unlike that for us. So in our case, there's two I'd like to mention, defending national champion, St. Louis slam, have Jamie Gaul, as their quarterback. So great game manager, terrific touch, super smart, and very, very efficient. You look at the offensive MVP of the league last year, that's our quarterback, a manate congeality. So a lefty who can throw all the routes, can throw the ball over 50 yards, you know,

can do the Hillmerys or the fly route, whatever you want to look at it as, but it's able to throw it in a way with velocity or outroutes, et cetera, that when guys catch it, they're surprised. They don't, this is unusual, as you said, an outlier type of situation. The thing is, unlike a Caitlin Clark, you haven't done it for four years televised in college before we got excited about seeing you this weekend on ESPN Plus or on ESPN 2 for the national championship. But if you see her play or see highlights of you play like Doc Walker would be a terrific

go-to for a testimony, he'll tell you after doing color commentary on our games, he's like, she is one bad, you know what? and so getting that in front of more people, and then there's some running backs and receivers and other people that, again, you think generally an offensive side now that are going to stand out a little bit more. But the bottom line is the longer this goes, the more investment in support it has,

the level of the athletes that will be attracted to it will continue to rise, which will then continue to rise the level of play, along with what flag is going to do with, you're going to know the game. This is not going to show up and wonder what, know a gap is or whatever I'm going to know the game in a different manner from a very young age likely and then you're going to have a skill set that is unique and then go back to the

quarterback world if we can throw the football which we can i mean it was illegal in the NFL right for how many years before it was illegal to throw the fourth it same for us we have to prove it and i think other than kicking the ball 55 yards which is still a rare you know you don't have that on the regular right right that still will will grow over the same the next 10 to where you will have a complete football game by many more cities and teams to the point where it will be undeniable for more people to want to see it, televise, and talk about it. Tomorrow, 6 o'clock ESPN Plus, DC Divas and the Pittsburgh Passion in the conference championship

game. The winner goes to the national championship game so you can watch this on ESPN Plus. Is there a point spread on the game? You know, that's another part of the evolution of the game. You can go ahead and set it and work with that. I'd love for you to announce it and pick that. I think Pittsburgh might be a slight favorite. We have split the series this year.

They beat us pretty good at home. Two weeks later, we went to their place and beat them by three. I think it's, you know, we probably give them a field goal advantage at this point. You know, Pittsburgh, right, giving up three. But with us on the road, this is the home of our 2016 national championship victory, Franco Harris, who until his passing was co-owner of the Pittsburgh Passage. Oh, really? Wow.

His son and his wife still are, presented our Super Bowl trophy in 2016 on this very same field. I know how bad they wanted after losing the conference championship game a year ago, but I also know how bad we wanted because we haven't been. We've been in the playoffs. We haven't been back to the conference championship game since 2018. So we're overdue. We are due. And if you can't get ESPN Plus at home for some reason or,

wherever you are, there's glory days in Falls Church. You can check out our social. There's a number of places. Crystal City Sports Club, et cetera. They'll have it on as watch party opportunities. And, you know, we really want to bring home some great football championship to have us take off on those commander's season and the best of form. Defenders did what they do. We need to do what we do. And then you'll have three football championships to look at here in the next six month. Good luck to you and the team at DC Divas football on X on Twitter. And again, tomorrow in Pittsburgh for the conference championship. Six o'clock kick on ESPN Plus. Thanks, Rich. Best of luck. Thank you, Kevin. I think Buck and Frank and Glenn and even a sports machine are pretty

smiling a little bit today about what we have the chance to do. Good luck. Thanks. you. All right, that's it for the show. Enjoy the weekend back on Monday.