The Kevin Sheehan Show - Who Said "Commanders Need A QB"?

Episode Date: April 25, 2022

Kevin and Thom today on a buffet of topics including "Football Outsiders" suggesting that Washington should be in the market for a quarterback early in the upcoming draft. They also talked Tyson Fury, Vegas, the Nats, Ben Simmons, and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here on a Monday because he can't do tomorrow, which is fine. I'm glad you are here on this Monday because I've got lots to talk to you about, including the heavyweight championship fight, which you had mentioned briefly last week.

I watched it. I'll tell you why here in a moment. Let me just thank all of you that have been sending in reviews and rating us here. recently. This is from Guy via Apple Podcasts. The Buffalo Nickel of podcasts. That's perfect.

Guy. Kevin, Tom, and friends do it all. Sports entertainment, snack food, opinions, and more truly deserving of the D.C. Sports Podcast Association's award. Rate us and review us, especially on Apple and Spotify, when you

can do it. Much appreciated. You know, we don't do that much snack food talk. However, it's perfect timing that Guy wrote that because remember I said to you a couple of weeks ago that I had to take my car in and because I was going to be out in Rockville that I was going to maybe perhaps make a trip to Roy Rogers, one of our favorite spots. I remember that conversation. Well, I didn't because I ended up having to bring it in, but they didn't get done everything they needed to get done. And so they sent me back early. And I just, I never got around. It was also further out, you know, Rockville Pike. Today, however, I had to bring

the car back in this morning. And I had the option of Roy Rogers, which we both love, but also right across the street from the dealership, the service department that I was bringing my car into, was Mission Barbecue. And I haven't done that in a long time since we were out in Rockville. And so I opted for that instead. Either one was a winner, but the Mission Barbecue was pretty good.

That's understandable. I mean, I certainly understand that. Absolutely. So to our friends at Roy Rogers and Mission Barbecue, we love you both. We love you both. Tommy, This is one where it's not going to be Tommy get off my lawn versus Kevin's,

you know, whatever contrarian or opposite side I choose to take. I think we're going to be in much agreement on this. My son yells to me midday Saturday or late Saturday afternoon. Did you know that Tyson Fury was fighting for the heavyweight championship of the world against this guy white? I said, Tommy mentioned it to me last week, but it wasn't. conversation, but I didn't know about it until Tommy told me about it. And he goes, well, we get the fight because we're ESPN Plus subscribers.

Look, you've got to come down here. Fury's entrance into the ring is outrageous, which is like, it's like a 15-minute entrance into the ring. Anyway, long story short, I sat there and I watched the fight. It was one of the worst. anybody that paid for that thing legitimately got ripped off in a major way. Now, Tyson Fury's knockout punch was a good one. This was six rounds of the least action packed into six rounds I have ever seen.

None of these fighters. I don't care what any of you young people tell me about Tyson Fury. Lennox Lewis, for me, is the last great, like I think he was underrated as a heavyweight champion. That's the last great heavyweight I've watched, period. And now, you know, what are we 15 years removed from his last fight? Every bit of it. These guys stink. It was an awful fight.

Did you didn't watch it, did you? I didn't watch a fight. Pay for a fight to watch Dillion White? I mean, are you kidding me? Fury. I'd rather go down on, I'd rather hang out outside a bar and wait for a fight to take place outside on the street corner. Would have been more action.

you know and people falled over over it they went nuts on Twitter because they don't know what they're looking at you see you have a generation that has grown up that

doesn't really know what good boxing is they can't they you know they've never seen it and all they have what's been put in front of them and as long as somebody gets knocked out that's pretty much all they care about they don't understand the rest of it

this I mean Billy and White wouldn't be a sparring partner for any of the great heavyweight. He wouldn't be good enough to be a sparring partner. And Tyson, and Tyson Fury, you know, people want to rank him among one of the greatest heavyweight champions of all time. I mean, he didn't fight anybody.

His three signature fights with Deonté Wilder, Deontay Wilder may be the worst, one of the worst heavyweight champions I've ever seen. he couldn't box. No. He had a punch, but he couldn't box. He had a great punch, but there are a lot, there are football players who probably have great punches. Did you say people were fawning all over this fight on Twitter? Yes, yes.

What were they saying? This was, this, this, this fight had zero. The what? The greatness of Tyson Fury. That he demolished this guy. Tommy, he didn't hit him until the knockout punch. There were no punches thrown. I swear to you.

It's a joke. And one of my least favorite broadcasters was doing the fight, Joe Tessator. And listening to Tessitore, like this third round, he's like, oh, the electricity. And he's going on and on. I'm like, electricity, I understand there were 100,000 people in Wembley. And it looked like quite the spectacle, no doubt. And I bet if you were there, you probably got caught up in the spectacle of 100,000 people all fired up to see Tyson Fury fight. But he at one point said, oh, this fight has turned into a compelling matchup.

I'm like, what are you watching? I'm waiting to see the first punchland. There's absolutely no flurries from Fury. And poor White, because of the reach advantage, that Fury has, which by the way is 84 inches. You know, the difference is these heavyweights of the day now, they're also, they're 6-8, they're 6-9. So when you get a white who's 6-3 or whatever he was,

he can't even come close to hitting Fury. And it just was the most boring fight I've ever seen. And the fights that I watched, and I paid for a couple of those, wilder fights. Totally not worth it. None of it's worth it. Do you agree with me that Lennox Lewis is underrated as a heavyweight champion? Yes. And I think to me, people will say the Klitschkos, particularly Vladimir Klitschko. He was heavyweight champion for a long time. But again, I saw Vladimir Klitsko lose to numerous fighters that had no business being in the ring with him before Emmanuel Stewart finally straightened him out.

So, I agree with you that Lennox Lewis is the last great heavyweight champion. The last talented, real deal, heavyweight champion. No doubt. This was a waste of money. Yeah, I have a Lennox Lewis story. Okay. I mean, it's not great one. It's a brief one.

I met Lennox Lewis before pretty much anyone knew who he was. Well, not anyone, but most people. He was about to fight Razor Ruddick, Razor Ruddick, who had lost twice to Mike Tyson in very contested fights. You know, and Razor Rudic had built a reputation on losing those fights to Mike Tyson because he gave Tyson all he could handle. And Lennox Lewis at the time was training at Sugar Ray Leonard's Boxing Center out in Palmer Park. Yeah.

He was training with Yanks Morton, who had been one of Lennox, one of Ray. Sugar Ray Leonard, yeah. Yeah. And I went out and I did an interview with Lennox, and this is before he was heavyweight champion. And he was so gracious and so decent to talk to. He was just so pleasant and smart to deal with. And also was curious, in the gym at the same time, was an unlawful. unknown amateur heavyweight about to make his debut later that year,

Haseen Rockman from Baltimore. I was just going to tell you that I saw Lennox Lewis knock out Rockman in like the fourth round. I think it was the fourth round. Oh, yeah. At Mandalay Bay. It was the fourth round. I was there.

I think we've mentioned this before that we were both there. We didn't know each other at the time. This is. I'll never forget this weekend because that particular weekend was a big time football weekend. Washington was playing Denver with Tony Banks at quarterback, but he got really cold. And then Kent Graham came in. This was the day after the fight. The fight was on Saturday night.

And he knocked Rockman out in four rounds. That was a rematch, if I'm not mistaken, Tommy, because he had lost to Rahman the previous time and lost his time. title. Am I right about that or not? I think that's true. Rockman, here's the deal. Rockman fought Lennox Lewis in South Africa, and I think it was like in June or July of that year. Or maybe it was April in that year. Okay, April 2001, in South Africa. And Rockman was a long shot. And he knocked out Lennox Lewis in, where did he knock him out?

Basically. So it was a rematch. Rockman was a 20-to-1 underdog. He knocked out Lewis with a fifth round uppercut. I mean, just Lewis was out, gone, hit the pan canvas, finished. And just like that, Hussie Rockman became heavyweight champion. So this was the rematch. and Lewis really gave Rockman a boxing lesson in that rematch.

Oh, it was, but here's what I remember about that weekend. So I was out in Vegas. It was one of those, it was back when I was frequenting Las Vegas far too much for my circumstances. But there was a group of us that would go out, and I've told you this before, we would go out for at least one fall football weekend. We'd go out there usually Super Bowl weekend, and then we'd be out there for at least the Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday of the NCAA tournament, or the Sweet 16. And sometimes we'd come back in May for another fight in Derby weekend and NBA playoffs and the whole thing.

But I remember specifically the circumstances of this weekend because Maryland, there are two big games. Maryland was clinching the ACC regular season championship in Ralph Freedon's first year against NC State on the road. And so in the, by the way, the Mandalay Sports book was always a good sports book. Back then, I don't even know what it's like now.

But I'm sitting there and everybody's like, the fight's going to start soon. I'm like, I'm watching the end of this Maryland NC State game. The fight's not going to start soon. The fight is like an hour and a half from starting. You got, you know, we had a couple of newbies out there that didn't understand that the time of, that was on your ticket didn't mean that's when the main event started. And so Maryland beat NC State at the end to win the ACC Championship. All right.

That's with Florida State in the league. Maryland won the ACC championship. That was Freedians' first year. That's when they went on to the Orange Bowl and lost to Spurrier's Florida team with, Rex Grossman at quarterback, and they got blown out in the Orange Bowl. And then the fight was that night, and then the next day was an NFL Sunday. And we, some of us were taking the red eye back. Some of us weren't, I had to stay on the West Coast. So I stayed that Sunday night. And I remember because Washington played Denver, this was the Marty year, okay, when Marty, by the way,

had them on rolling after starting 0 and 5. Remember they started 0 in 2001 and they were at Denver after having won I think the Philadelphia game was the game that they went 5 and 5 on so the Denver game was probably the game that they made it won their fourth in a row so they had won three in a row they were playing at Denver it was sleeting and raining in 35 degrees and and the skins were a big underdog. But the way they were playing, I bet them, I bet them on the money line. They came back with Kent Graham and won the game 17 to 10 in the fourth quarter. And then that night, Tommy, the Sunday night game was New England and the Rams.

Nobody knew it at the time, but it would be a preview of the Super Bowl. Okay, this is the first Patriots Super Bowl season. and they were playing the Rams that night, and I had been watching the Patriots, and I'm like, I like this team. I think they're pretty good. I think this Brady guy's decent. And I think they were getting nine, nine and a half points,

and I bet them against the spread and on the money line. They didn't win the game. They did cover. They covered in the game. And I just remember having a massive weekend with the Patriots and the Skins as big underdogs covering with the skins winning outright. And that ended up being the preview. I mean, no one knew that in the moment.

I mean, the Patriots, I'm going to look it up right now because I bet they were, if the skins were three and five, I bet the Patriots were like four and four or five and four. Because remember that first Super Bowl year, they made the late run late in the season and then into the postseason. Pro football reference. Um, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. New England. New England. Okay. Sunday, November 18th. They lost to the Rams 2417. They were five and four. That dropped them to five and five. That was their last loss of that year. They won their final six games to finish 11 and 5, won the tuck rule game against the Raiders in the snow. beat the Pittsburgh Steelers at, you know, at Heinz Field.

It was Heinz Field, right? It was November 18th, not December 18th. Yeah, it was November 18th. The Rockman fight was the night before. If you look it up, I bet you... Yeah, it was. Yeah. And the Maryland win over NC State was Saturday, November 17th, 2001.

And, you know, you know, it's... I don't know if you read... Yeah, go ahead. I don't know if you remember this or had the same impression, but this is true. This is how it was. This is two months after 9-11. I know it is. I was just going to say the same thing.

I don't remember being a ghost town that weekend. Oh, it was. It was a ghost town that weekend. I mean, I remember talking to taxi drivers, and they were saying how desperate all the workers are and how bad things are and that nobody was in town that weekend. That was a ghost town weekend for a heavyweight title. fight going on in during NFL team.

Well, the Brits were there. I remember that night. They were there and they were singing, you know. Yeah, the Brits were there, but Vegas was in pretty rough shape that weekend. Well, put it this way. We had a large group. I don't remember, I don't remember it being that, but you're probably right because it's exactly two and a half, you know, two months later, you know, after 9-11. And, and, yeah. So anyway. Well, getting back to that one thing I talked about, it stunk. I mean, it wasn't any good.

The thing about Rockman was, here he was in this gym as an amateur fighter with Lennox there. Right. And both of them, like six, seven years later, would change each other's history, at least briefly. I mean, Rockman became a heavyweight champion and a millionaire because of that upset. I mean, and here they were. They didn't even know each other in that gym. Rockman's still being just starting out as an amateur fighter at the time. So that was why I told that story.

Is he alive? Why do I, am I thinking about the right guy? Okay. He is alive. He's alive. Okay. For whatever reason. He's a lot of Baltimore, I think.

Yeah. Yeah, you know, that Mandalay, like you and I have been together at the MGM Arena. which is a really good arena. It's very, very good for big events and boxing events. But that Mandalay Bay event center was smaller and more intimate and was a great... I think it was smaller. I could be wrong about that.

I think it was stronger than the MGM. The MGM was pretty big, right, or not? Why aren't you answering me? I don't think so. I think they're about the same size. I think Mandalay Bay might be a little smaller. but the MGM Grand Garden was my favorite place to cover boxing. Yeah, well, you and I went to a couple of fights together.

We didn't sit together because you were always, you always had a media pass. And actually, no, that's not true. I did sit with you for one of the fights. I can't remember what fight it was, but we did sit together for one of the fights. MGM Grand Garden is 17,000. And the Mandalay Bay is 12,000, yeah. And of course, the MGM in terms of hotel space and casino floor space much bigger than Mandalay Bay. Yeah.

Okay. So I'm glad you didn't watch a fight or even attempt to. You didn't miss anything. I can't believe anybody actually watched that fight and found it to be, you know, an exciting fight. It was a terrible fight. And then Tyson Fury did throw an uppercut that was with incredible speed. And it knocked, you know, white completely out. So over the weekend, I had Vinnie Serato on the podcast.

I don't know if – did you know that or not? Did I tell you that? Did you lose a bet? So it's really funny, and this is why I wanted to bring it up with you, because it's – That's why I said it, because it's really funny. It's – no, I didn't lose a bet. And I've had Vinny on the podcast before. I've had Vinny on the radio show before over the last couple of years.

You know, Vinny knew how critical I and others on the air were, and he didn't like it much. And then Vinny absolutely shredded me on his show when I was doing the Maryland basketball and Maryland football games for Johnny Holiday for those few years when there was a conflict or that one year where he wasn't healthy and I did like seven Maryland basketball games. I mean, he just kept screaming, get sheen off these games and get Holiday back. But that's fine because a year and a half ago or whatever, two years ago I called them up. And I said, hey, why don't you come on the show? The draft's coming up. We can talk old stories. Because I've said this before about Vinny.

He was not a good general manager, obviously. But he was a very nice person, always was. And he's had, you know, he's been on the air now for many, many years in Baltimore doing a radio show. But anyway, that's not why I brought it up. I brought it up because I just loved the reaction from people. And there were two stories in particular that people want clarity on or, you know, some sort of clarification on. Number one, the reaction from everybody is, well, why? And then the next tweet from the same person is, did he really say that?

So people clearly listen, which is, I know what they would do. And I knew people would complain about it. And getting, you know, draft information from Vinny for some people is, ridiculous. With that said, we put people on the air that have blogs on the draft that have never gotten paid nickel one to be in charge of picking players in a draft. So it's okay that we got Vinny's take on this upcoming draft. And you know, over the last couple of years, one of the things I've learned about Vinny's tenure, Vinny didn't have the final say most of the time. There was a guy he was working for that pretty much had the final say. But anyway,

There were two stories, he told. And people think that I tripped him up on something. And I didn't, and it certainly wasn't done intentionally. But somehow the conversation came to Jake Locker. I don't even recall specifically from Saturday, because that's when I recorded the interview. It's a long time ago now, two days ago. I can't remember specifically how we got to Jake Locker.

but Vinnie said I was out scouting Jake Locker before that draft. And Dan called me to see what I thought and I said he hasn't even completed 50% of his passes in the 7 on 7. I said to Vinny, I go, 2011 Vinny was when he got drafted. You weren't with the organization. You'd been gone for basically a year and a half. Mike Shanahan got hired along with Bruce Allen Bruce Allen got hired at the end of 2009

and Mike got hired at the beginning of 2010. So do you mean he was Danny Boy's private scouts? So that's what people are absolutely convinced of. And I did say to him, Vinnie, you couldn't have been scout. No, I was scouting for the team.

I was still with the team. No, you weren't. You weren't with the team in 2011. And then he got, he pulled back a little bit and people said, it sounded like I had busted him. And I said, well, maybe you went out to scout him in 2009 because Jake Locker had a big junior season, a huge junior season. And he was still the general manager in 2009. So personally, I think he just got confused with the years. and that he had scouted him the year before when he was still with the organization.

But if he had done this right before the 2011 draft, no, he wasn't with the organization. He wasn't. I think you're probably right. I think he probably got his years mixed up. Yeah, because really a year into the Bruce Allen, Mike Shanahan tenure, Dan's got Vinnie out there scouting on his behalf. I mean, it's believable. No, no, no. The way you say that, that only gives it credibility.

Actually, I'm back on the other side now. I just switched over. I think Dan hired him to be his private scout and didn't tell Bruce or Shanahan anything about it. I don't, I honestly, of course it's believable. Of course it is. That's the side I'm on. I don't think that happened.

You just convinced me. I know, but I don't think that's the way. I think he got confused. because when I got done with him, I went back and I looked at Locker, and Locker had a massive junior year, and there was some talk that he was coming out. So, subject to change. I might change my mind, too. But for the moment, I don't think that Dan had Vinny working on this side.

The one thing he did say is he said, and I said to him, I go, yeah, but Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan were in there. And he said, well, Bruce wouldn't have gone out to see him. There were some really good stories, and Vinny's actually a good storyteller, because I remember this from when I had him on two years ago or a year and a half ago, whenever it was. But he told, you know, we've all heard this story about Sean Taylor and Kellynne Winslow Jr. in the 2004 draft. By the way, for those that haven't listened, trust me, the people that are saying, why did you have them on? they're also saying, I can't believe Vinnie to mention the Jake Locker thing. I think, you know, and they're mentioning multiple parts of the interview.

Anyway, he said that Kellynne Winslow Jr. Kellyn Winslow Jr. was really Gibbs's preference, which, by the way, Clinton Portis has told me before. Clinton Portis was teammates with both Sean and Kellynne Winslow Jr. at Miami. And Portis was there for the 2004 draft. and Gibbs wanted a tight end. He wanted to go offense. He wanted to go Kellynne Winslow Jr.

But a week before, Winslow Jr. came in for his visit, and Gibbs was supposed to meet him for breakfast at a hotel near the park. Gibbs is down there waiting for him. He doesn't show up. Vinny tells the story. He goes up to the hotel room, knocks on the door, and he comes to the door, and he's completely out of it groggy. So that was strike number one against Winslow Jr.

Strike two came later in the day when they were supposed to. to get together at the park. And nobody could find Kellyn Winslow, Jr., because he was sound asleep in the wait room. So strike number two. And then Vinny told the story, you said when we all sat down and started looking at Sean Taylor again, a week before the draft,

all of the offensive guys who hadn't spent the coaches, bugues and bro and all of them, all of them started watching Sean Taylor, and they just said, oh, no, no, no, no. We can't take anybody but him. We're not taking the other guy, even regardless of his, this guy is clearly the best player we've seen on tape as offensive guys. And Portis has told me the story many times over.

He got wind about Gibbs liking Winslow over Sean Taylor, and he went up there and he said, he said, I just want to find out, is that true? And Gibbs said, yeah, I'm really looking for offense. And Clinton Portis said, well, if you're looking for offense, take Sean Taylor. and Gibbs said, okay, and he said, if you want the, Sean will create more offense as a defensive player than Winslow Jr. And I think, you know, they all knew Winslow Jr. is, he's in jail, right? I think he's in jail.

Yeah. And anyway, lots of stories from Vinny, many more than that. And his thoughts on the draft. And for those of you that enjoyed it, I did too. And I'm going to have him on. again before next year's draft probably, or maybe even next week to get his evaluation of the draft. We have people. Kevin doesn't care what you think. I don't. I don't because I know how many people listen to that because I've seen the numbers already on the podcast from the last two days. So we've got some things to get to. Tommy wrote about the Nats weekend, which was a disaster.

and there is a group out there that believes that Washington should be targeting a quarterback on Thursday night. No later than early Friday night. More on that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Football Outsiders is the creator of the DVOA metric. That's the one advanced statistic that I use on occasion on the show. I think it makes a lot of sense and I think they do a pretty good job of evaluating teams and evaluating players.

I'm actually a subscriber to football outsiders and football outsiders wrote a story yesterday which was published on ESPN. I don't know if they're like a partner of ESPNs. I don't think they are. But they had a story titled NFL draft guides for all 32 teams. Biggest position needs,

underrated holes, and prospect fits. So you scroll down to Washington, and the biggest need, according to football outsiders, is quarterback. And when I read that, I was wondering,

I wonder if this is old. I wonder if this was before the Wentz trade. And then I read what they wrote, and I'm going to read it to you right now. Normally, when we do these follow-up pieces, we have to be cognizant of the noise around the team, and the noise around this team, is that it's all but quit evaluating quarterbacks after acquiring Carson Wents.

However, with the way this offseason has unfolded, it feels like the Wents trade is already a disaster for Washington. Similar quarterbacks like Baker Mayfield and Jimmy Garoppolo remain available and likely won't command anywhere near the two third round picks, one that could potentially upgrade to a second, that Washington spent. Wence is a stopgap and the commanders need to act like it. If they see a quarterback fall to them at 11 and they have a first round grade on him, they should strike. If a quarterback with a second round grade is there in the second round, they should strike.

We don't think they will, but it's what they would do if they were honest about what Wentz is. And when I read that, I was like, other than the Baker Mayfield part, similar quarterbacks, it's spot on. It's exactly what I've felt since the trade for Carson Wentz. If I'm wrong about Wentz and Wentz turns out to be the answer, then they're going to look great. And it'll be great for every fan of the team because you would have gotten them for what will, you know, in hindsight, maybe be perceived as a bargain. Although you really have to judge it in many ways, in many ways about what the price was at the time.

Washington basically was the only team interested in Carson Wentz, and they gave up two draft choices, swap five spots to a worse position in the second round, and ate all $28.3 million of his salary cap number, which, by the way, Vinny's not a big fan of the trade and said you certainly can't take all $28.3 million of the cap. By the way, as somebody pointed out, this from the guy that was going to offer Cincinnati two first rounders

for Chad Ocho's single. go. Yeah, I understand. But this is the issue here. And the last line, it's what they would do if they were being honest about what Wentz is. They would be thinking quarterback. Now, if they don't like the quarterbacks, this is a moot point. If they really don't think that Pickett or Willis or any of them are worth any kind of investment because they see bust on all of them, that's fine. Look, that may have been the driver to trade for Carson Wentz in the first place. But if there are people that believe that Malik Willis has a big, big upside, even though he might

have a big, big floor, I said at the day the trade happened. It would not preclude me from drafting a quarterback at 11 overall. Because Carson Wentz, to me, the chances are greater that he's here for a year than more than one year. Yeah. I have to agree with all that. I mean, if they don't like a quarterback, it would be foolish for them to take that first-round draft pick on a quarterback that they don't think that is going to help them pretty quickly.

You know, and I think they made the Wendz trade with that in mind. I don't think they like any of the quarterbacks that much. Okay. If they like the guy, we have to figure that they'd be smart enough then not to trade for Carson Wens, right? No, we don't have to think that. That's what Ben thinks and others think, but I would argue that point. I think that if they liked somebody in the draft but didn't love somebody in the draft, but let's just say they think that Willis has, you know, a lot of potential, even though he's high risk as a pick.

I think that they needed very much to have an answer for this coming year that was definitely an upgrade. even if they thought that there was a guy that was a developmental guy that had a big upside. My point is, if they do feel that way, just let's use Malik Willis as an example, they should still draft him because you're going nowhere until you figure out the quarterback thing. So I'm swinging at all, any quarterback that I like until I find the answer. And with Wentz, the bottom line is, I've said this a million times since the trade, and really in the last couple of weeks. If they were absolutely convinced, as Nikki Javala reported the other day,

that they don't consider him to be a bridge quarterback at all, then they would have restructured his contract already. And they wouldn't have lost Eric Flowers and potentially not Matt Ionitis, and they'd have more room on the Terry McClellan contract extension. If they were 100% convinced that he was not, you know, it was much more than a bridge quarterback, that he was like the answer for the next five to ten years. They would have already restructured his deal, and they haven't.

Listen, you draft a quarterback in the first round, and you have just torn the sliver of whatever is left of Carson Wentz's heart right out. Yeah, well, man up. I mean, that's what you've done. Man up. No, no, no, no, no. I mean, not this guy.

Man up doesn't work. It hasn't helped. It apparently was a big deal when they drafted Jalen Hertz in Philadelphia. But you know what? If they've got that same guy, well, they're already done. Well, they are already done. Because Indy didn't have any pressure on him. They had Sam Ealinger, a running quarterback backing them up.

There's nobody else on the roster for them. Listen, he's going to have enough to deal with Taylor Heineke. behind them, let alone drafting a number one quarterback. That would just be, well, I'm rooting for it, because I think that would just be, you know, out of, off the charts, drama, you know? As fans chant the number one picks name, well, the few fans who were at preseason games, chant the number one pick's name. And he turns out to, like, look somewhat impressive in a meaningless preseason game.

Oh, hell, it's going to break loose. in this town you've seen it you've seen you've seen this time after time again it's not going to be any different there will be a quarterback controversy even if there's nobody there let alone if you bring somebody well again my my my mode of operation is keep swinging for for guys with big upside until you land the right one and carson wents is talented and you know maybe Washington is the place where he's able to resurrect his career and become the player many thought he would be in 2016 and 2017. It hasn't worked out for most players here over the last two decades. This isn't where they find, you know, they find their careers. So I'm counting on a year from now

them needing a quarterback. I'm not saying that it's like overwhelming odds, but I would say that there's a 55% chance that at the end of this upcoming season that, you know, Wents is gone and they're looking for another answer. I think this is a flyer on Carson Wence. And they can get out of it, which is the good news at the end of the year without any pain moving forward. But if they like somebody in this draft, you know, if Scott Turner or Marty Herney or Martin Mayhew have been trying to convince Ron, hey, this Malik Willis, He could be the next, you know, Josh Allen. He could be the next Lamar Jackson.

He could be the next whatever, like real good quarterback. He's got to, he could be a bus too. There's high upside, big time downside. If they feel that way organizationally, they should take him. Football outsiders is right. Let's really carve Carson went up here while we got him on the table. Okay. let's try to speculate what Dan Snyder thinks of him.

And we know what Dan Snyder is like. We know how he thinks of himself, a real guy, a guy's guy, you know, who likes guys with slagger and, you know, who likes those kind of players. And now his quarterback that he's paying a ridiculous amount of money to is a reject from two other organizations. This is not the kind of guy that Dan Snyder, racist. Okay? So I got to think that Dan Snyder is not warm and fuzzy about Carson Wentz based on Dan Snyder's track record of behavior. There's one difference. He also likes guys that have kind of name recognition. And Carson Wentz has name recognition.

And so because he doesn't know anything, I mean, knows nothing about football. He's a bad name recognition. That's true, but he was also a borderline MVP or was headed to an MVP in 2017. You know, it's not like Dan's going to ask, it's not like he's going to ask the right questions, you know, to his football people. Like, well, why didn't it work out in Philly? Why didn't work out in Indy? He's probably salivating over the fact that he was the number two pick in the draft, and he was at one point, you know, an MVP candidate and favorite.

He's, it's, oh, I think, I think, I think, I would. rather go with Snyder is not happy about settling for thirds. Here's a more important question, and I don't know that you and I have discussed this. Maybe we have. But, you know, Ron talks about the third year, you know, being this third, all-important third year. By the way, he did an interview with Scott Abraham from Channel 7 on Friday that I played some of the cuts on the radio show.

He keeps talking, you know, in terms of the draft this week. mentioned multiple times. We've got to protect Carson and give them playmakers, give them weapons. That's what's on their mind as number one overall. And if you missed the podcast

from over the weekend, I gave out some, you know, information. Drake London is the number one wide receiver on their board and there isn't a close second. Again, I said this on Saturday. I don't know if they would take Kyle Hamilton

if he's there over Drake London, but I think Drake London, but I think Drake London, would be their first choice. I'm leaning that they will take him if he's on the board at 11 if the board falls their way. Because I think, you know, I was told the board falling their way means Drake London's there at 11. That's who they like. But he mentioned multiple times about protecting and providing Wentz with playmakers.

He needs Carson Wentz to work out. But the issue is, what does that mean if Wentz doesn't? doesn't work out and they don't have a good season. Is he done? I don't think so. Do you? No, not done. Is he fired? Yeah. We don't even know how long as contract is, do we?

Five years. This is third of five. Five years. He's not going to be fired because Dan does not fire guys typically with a lot of money on the table. Yeah. And there would be a lot of money on the table. So, I mean, as much as we criticize him, he doesn't fire guys at a whim. I mean, I think if the relationship sours significantly, that will affect the whole organization. That will affect the way they do business on the field and off. It already does if they get along, let alone if they don't get along.

So if this is not his year to save his job, it's his year to hang on to whatever chance. he has left to do his job without interference. I agree with you on that. I don't think that he's going to get fired at the end of this year. I mean, would 2 and 15 or 3 and 14 change things maybe? But this has been a long-term project from the jump, and he's talked about, you know, the military needing, you know, the three to five years, et cetera.

Would we be talking about the fourth year being a hot seat year? if they, you know, were to go, say, six and 11 this year, and all of a sudden he's 20 and 30 over, you know, over a three-year period. Yeah, I think we might be talking about it then. But I think I think Dan's just got way too much on his plate right now to even think about that. I mean, I'd be surprised. I mean, Ron told me obviously during the season that he talked to Snyder and talked to him in the building. and that was brought up recently when Goodell said that he didn't think he had been in the building. But whatever.

I don't think, you know, Dan's pressing run. I think at this point the football operation is, you know, it's down the list for the Snyders. They got much bigger issues. But when football starts, it'll move to the forefront. Speaking of Rivera, one of the comments he made to Scott Abraham in that interview, It was the last cut I played on radio this morning was, you know, him talking about all of the off-the-field stuff. And once again, Ron went down that path of saying, you know,

it's just, you know, dealing with that stuff just isn't fair to us. This is now a different group of people. We weren't here for any of this. And that's bullshit. And, well, it's bullshit on two fronts. go ahead. Tell me the fronts that you think it's bullshit on. Well, Fair has nothing to do with it. I mean, you don't get to walk in, take the job, and talk about the legacy of Joe Gibbs

and all the Super Bowls that this organization's had without inheriting the bad stuff. Great point. You get it all, you know? And this is the 80th year of the anniversary of the franchise. They are going to, they'll probably do it badly, but they are going to tout the history of this team throughout this entire season, except the last 20 years. Well, they didn't even know it was the 30-year anniversary of the 91 team. So how do you know they're going to remember that it's the 80-year anniversary? Oh, they've got plans.

Okay. I know they have plans, probably bad plans, probably embarrassing plans. but plan. Your point is so well stated. You don't get to sit there and talk about the glory days and bringing back the glory days. And you remember with being a Chicago bear in the 80s and playing at RFK Stadium and bringing up Joe Gibbs and the Lombardi trophies and then say, hey, you know, the past, that was a different group of people. That's not fair to us. You know, I understand what he wants. He doesn't want distractions for his football team and his players. But I would debate that it's that much of a distraction. Like how many people are really asking Terry McClorn about the House

Oversight and Reform Committee? Like somehow he would have a good answer to that. You know, nobody's blaming. His family, his wife, his friends. Media-wise. Media-wise, no. But when he leaves that building, You know, I'll bet you there's a segment of the people that he runs with who knows them that have questions for him that have nothing to do with football unless he's told them all to shut up about it already. Okay, fair enough. What he'd be right to do. Fair enough. I guess for me, though, it's a bit of a straw man when you start talking about like how much it's impacting.

Nobody's sitting there asking players. It's not a media horde asking players. I asked Ron twice during the regular season with all these stories coming out if it was really hard. If he and Stephanie kind of look at each other saying what the hell do we get ourselves into. And he laughed about it. And he said, yeah, we have talked about it a little bit. We've heard him say since the season ended, he'd like us all to just forget the past and focus on the future that the commanders don't have anything to do with it. Well, you know, when he said it's a different group of people, yeah, it's football people are different.

and the business people are different, but there's one constant. Dan Snyder's still there. When you took this job, you knew what you were getting. Marty Schottenheimer, Joe Gibbs, Mike Shanahan, Hall of Fame coaches, or should be Hall of Fame coaches, and it didn't work out for them because of the owner.

What makes you think it was going to change with you? And that's before all the stuff about the sexual harassment started and the name and everything else. I know he's had to deal with even more than what he thought he would have to deal with. That's number one. Number two, so don't tell us it's different people if the owner's still here. If the owner's gone, then you can say, all right, the guy that caused all these issues, he's gone. Now it's a new day.

And by the way, people would celebrate that. But as long as he's here, it's not different people. It would be like a Super Bowl parade, almost. I mean, literally, people would. people would celebrate like, I mean, like they haven't celebrated, well, since then that's one in the World Series. Let's also not forget that part of the, you know, ongoing every week or twice a week or every other week, depending on the stretch we're in of scandal and investigation and raids, let's not forget that the DEA rated the building because the guy he brought in to be the head athletic trainer, Ryan Vermillion, did something wrong.

We still don't know what it was, but that is part of the new group. I mean, you know, it seems insignificant compared to everything else, but we don't, we still don't know anything about what that raid was about. No, we don't. But sorry, Ron, you're a nice guy and you're a good guy. You're in a shit organization with a shit owner. And so as long as he's here, this stuff is going to, you know, rear its ugly head more often than you would like.

It's just the way it was for, it's been that way for years. It's been a lot more recently. The concentration has been greater recently over the last two years, but everybody's had to deal with it. Jay Gruden, Mike Shanahan, Jim Zorn, Joe Gibbs, Steve Spurrier, Marty Schottenheimer, Norv Turner, all of them have had to deal with working for the worst owner in professional sports and what comes with that.

So you can't unfortunately run away from it or ask everybody to cover their eyes and just focus on all the new people. I'll tell you what would help, though, something better than 14 and 19 in your first two years. You know, if you actually have a winning record in your third year, you can get a lot of people to start. paying more attention to that.

But if you want people to stop, you know, reflecting on things that didn't happen when you were there, my best advice is go out and win big. Don't go 14 and 19 over the next two years. I agree. How bad is our baseball team? Like 2008, 100 lost season bad. You had the over 70 and a half. Would you reconsider?

Are you reconsidering that? Oh, yeah. Yeah, because I tell you why, because one thing I did, so I'm not backing down that I've overestimated how good they would be, okay? But I also did say that they would need a lot of things to go right for them. Right. Okay. That has not happened. Just the opposite has happened. Patrick Corbyn is one of the worst starting pitchers in Washington National history. Why is that? What happened? I don't know.

I don't know. He can't, I mean, you know, batters aren't fighting on that sinker ball that he has, and he's just walking guys, and it's a disaster. I mean, they're starting pitching as a disaster, which puts a good bullpen, not a great bullpen. Let's not hold a parade for them. They're a good bullpen so far, but it's taxing them. Now, I mean, you know, they're really going to start to feel,

because they're starting pitchings for the most part. Don't go more than four inks. Well, his Friday game was just a disaster. Yeah. I mean, I mean, yeah, go ahead. And yesterday, I'll tell you, well, it was so bad yesterday that Lucius Fox, their starting third base and wound up throwing up on the mound after two pitches. I saw that.

Oh, my God, it looked like some pop art, the still picture of the vomit in midair. And the unbelievable part is they didn't clean it up until after the inning. Oh, they didn't. They didn't stop the game and go out and clean it up. Jonah Donn kept pitching with a puk about, you know, seven feet from them. Well, that's what happens in football games. That's what happens in football games all the time. We've heard this stories, guys vomiting and just leave it on the field.

I know. I know. I know it happens in football, but traditionally it doesn't happen. It's happened a few times in baseball. Usually the pitchers. not usually the position players look in wrestling you know I wrestled in high school I wrestled very

badly but I wrestle guys used to throw up before matches all the time right I never did because I figured I was going to get my ass kicked so why get all worked up about it right but the good ones I mean they'd be in that in that stall just even

before matches and then they go out and clean somebody's clock what about Juan Soto so far three RBI's total I know he's hitting second, and so you need your nine hitter and one hitter to be pretty good, and they haven't been very good. But, you know, he's hitting 242. He's got, you know, three homers, three RBIs.

I think all three homers came as insignificant homers. I may be wrong about one of them. It's not a good start for him. Well, I'm not worried about him per se in this. I mean, you know, he is a victim in part. of the lack of talent around him, I'm more worried about the mental fatigue of being surrounded by losing this year

with two more years left here in Washington. Now they have hopes for big things next year with young pitchers like Cole Henry and Kaye Cavali and the minors. And I don't know how much longer they're going to be in the minors because they're, I mean, this starting rotation, as it exists, it's not going to cut it.

I mean, they're 6 and 12, and April isn't even over yet. And they, unlike 2019, when they start, look, they forever have that 19 and 31 start as a flag. But they were injured. They were injured in that 1931 start. They got injured. They got some injuries right now. Right. And I'll go through them.

But, and they earned that the right to have that flag of hope to waive whenever they want, okay? But if you stack up the talent when they're all healthy, it's not the same talent. You know, this is not the same. Like, look, Stephen Strasbourg, they talked about Strasbourg and Joe Ross. They're missing two of their starting pitchers. You know, they're down in Florida, still rehabbing from operations. And I don't even know if they face life hitting yet down there. But he mentioned that as, you know, two guys they're missing. Well, Stephen Strasper, has pitched 26 innings in the past two seasons. We haven't seen him be Stephen Strasbourg since the World Series in 2019.

Yeah. This is 22. And Joe Ross, for all the moments and glimpses of excellence, has not been very good overall. Right. I mean, I mean, there's no one's going to hold a celebration when Joe Ross is healthy, and back on the mound, until he proved something. So, I mean, and look, they just lost Sean Doolittle to an elbow injury.

He's been their best reliever. They had to hold out Josh Bell, one of their primary power hitters because of a hamstring. And they didn't put him on the DL because they think he's real close. And Dave, he wound up at one point during yesterday's game with just one bench player available, Victor Robles, who still has not been to Victor Robles, you know, they have hoped for. So, now it's all those things would have to be different. Strasbourg would have to be back in the rotation, pitching like Strasbourg.

Okay, Corbyn would have to have been pitching like Corbett of 2019. Victor Robles would have to go back to being the Victor Rovoy that team salivated over when they tried to trade for them from the nationals. Those things would have had to happen for them to compete. They have a thin margin for failure, and they have blown that margin so far. And they're in a division with the defending World Series champions and perhaps the National League among the National League favorites in the Mets. Yes. Yes. It's going to be a long year. It's going to be a long year. On the other hand, 20 years ago, there was no baseball.

That's right. That's right. Always try to console yourself. Think how much worse this would be if there was no 2019 World Series title. Oh, my God. Think about the idea of how. Having that span go with nothing to show for it, and now they're starting all over again. You know, think how much worse it would be. I mean, they had quite the run. I mean, it's really, I mean, I don't think anybody even really understands, like over a 10-year period or over an 8-year period. They won more games than any team other than the Dodgers, you know, from 2012 or 2019. team. I'm not excusing them or defending them in this case. I'm just trying to give fans a little

perspective who have to sit through this and watch this. I think they could have done more to compete this year. But like we talked about, like I've written, the learners were not in a spending mood since their business is being slack financially and their baseball team was losing money financially. Now they put the team up for sale and God only knows how that's going to affect the way they do baseball business the rest of this year. Nobody has an idea about that. So will Mike Rizzo be pleasant at your event on May 9th? Thursday going to be in a bad mood? What are we going to talk to him about? Not baseball. I don't know. Help it. There's no guarantee he'll come. I don't want to make sure people know that.

I mean, he's coming to pass. You know, he'll probably be there. And he's been there when Actually, he's never been there when they've been really bad. But he was there in the 19 and 31 start. Tommy, don't you remember that night? Davy and Rizzo were both there. And they were giving away like an opportunity for somebody to go to the game and then come into Davies press conference afterwards. And I made the offhanded comment, which they both laughed at.

I just said, hey, whoever? just got that, you may want to pick a game like in the next week or two. And they both laughed. Because remember. Yeah, I know. Go ahead. Well, because there was discussion in that 2019 season about when they got off to the 19 and 31 start.

And it was, I forget what their record was when you had your event, but they weren't very good. No. No, they weren't. But, you see, they could laugh because they knew what was coming. Yeah. In a way. And they were right.

You know, it won't be quite so much for giggles this time around. Yeah, exactly. All right. Let's take a break. And when we come back, we'll finish up with a few things, including Ben Simmons, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. I have been watching a fair amount of the NBA playoffs, Tommy.

But we won't spend any time talking about the games, other than to say the Brooklyn Nets, one of the preseason favorites to win the whole thing. They are on the verge of being swept by the Boston Celtics. Tonight, Brooklyn's a one-point favorite to avoid the sweep at home in game four against Jason Tatum and the Boston Celtics. Tatum is truly a superstar. He is right now one of the best players in the game. You could certainly argue Jason Tatum's a top three to top five player in the game right now.

And Boston is not going to lose this series. they're up three games to none. They've been beating the snot out of Kevin Durant. He has had a very difficult series. The game Saturday night in Brooklyn that they lost 106 to 100. Durant finished with just 16 points, just 11 shot attempts. He's averaging 22 in the series, but a field goal percentage, 38.5%. He's really had a rough go of it.

Turnovers galore. He's averaging 5.7 turnover. is a game in this series. And Kyrie, after a brilliant first game that they lost, that they had a really good chance to win in that game, has not helped out that much either. In his last two games in the series, he's gone for 10 and 16 points

and also, you know, four or five turnovers combined as well. It's going to be interesting, actually, just to think about Kevin Durant if he gets swept in this first round. and, you know, a guy that I think they really felt like they were going to win a title together, but Kyrie Irving didn't play a lot of the games because he wasn't vaxed, and, you know, they ended up trading James Harden for Ben Simmons. And so I want to get to that. Ben Simmons was supposed to return for game four of this series,

but he's not going to play tonight. He's not going to play tonight because of backsornness. within hours of what would have been a green light for him to play in game four. Not that, by the way, I thought he was going to help out a lot. I mean, he certainly could defensively. But he was still sore and he is out, which means he did not play one second of basketball for either Philadelphia or New Jersey this year. And the reaction to Ben Simmons not playing in this series is really remarkable.

because players, current and former executives, they are all over him. I'm just going to say this and then I'm going to let you have at it. Number one is this. It's really disgraceful the entire situation. Not because he isn't battling some demons and some mental health issues potentially that, you know, specifically it sounds like some of us. them deal with, you know, the mental block with shooting last year, which was an issue, and maybe not being able to get over that. And then, you know, obviously having guys that were on

his team last year, you know, essentially saying, you know, it's time for him to man up a little bit. And, you know, it would be one thing for Simmons to, you know, demand trade and to hold out and to not play all year long. But when he went after his money filing a grievance for the $20 million, in salary withheld by the 76ers this year. That's a bit much for everybody. You know, if you've got issues, if you've got mental health issues, et cetera, you know, don't play. But you can't get paid.

And the NBA Players Association, you know, there's a situation going on with this grievance and we'll see how it plays out. But Stephen A said something yesterday. he, you know, shredded Simmons and said that he's let down every single person, coaching-wise, player-wise. But the biggest issue is that for some reason he believes he deserves to get paid for not playing. And Stephen A's point, Tommy, was this is going to be a big issue in the next collective bargaining agreement, that the NBA is not going to ever allow a Ben Simmons type of situation.

to happen again. Certainly not with any sort of compensation. And Stephen A said that this is eventually going to be called the Ben Simmons Clause or rule, because NBA owners are not going to hear of this kind of situation again. If a player has issues, he can get some help and the league can be there to support that player. If that player demands to get paid when he holds out an entire season, at times just seemingly that he had his feelings hurt by Doc Rivers and some others in Philadelphia in the Philadelphia media.

And then he shows up in New Jersey and he's still not going to play. That's just not going to fly moving forward. I thought it was a really good point by Stephen A. The other thing, too, I just will mention is back soreness for a guy who actually has had documented herniated disc issues. If it were anybody else, he'd get the benefit of the doubt because that's a serious injury, where he could be seriously injured for a long period of time if he were to go out and play and legitimately herniated disc and end up having to have surgery on it. But because it's him and his actions or inaction over the last year,

nobody's giving him a break on this. Look, I don't know what Ben Simmons' mental issues are. We don't know. I mean, he could just be simply a product of the I-do-me generation. and if you don't like it, you learn to live with it. You know, he's not alone in that. I think the outcry in part, and this is my limb, so I'm going to step out on it, is because deep down a lot of these former players and some of these analysts

see him as what the NBA has become, and they hate it. Deep down, I think a lot of people hate what the NBA has become. Oh, I don't think there's any doubt about that. Because they make money off of it. I mean, it's their bread and butter. But they hate what it's turned into. Oh, no doubt. And I think that he has become a symbol of that right now.

Yes. Man, he's not the only symbol. You know, Kyrie Irving's a symbol of that. There are other players. I mean, the other night, too, when Simmons was dressed up like a clown on the bench. It was just, you know, it really is, as you just called it and referred to it, the generation of I do me. I think a lot of these guys, I think you're right. I think they've had it. I mean, you'd be hard pressed right now. I mean, you'll find a tweet or two in sympathy,

being sympathetic to a situation, but for the most part, an overwhelming response from players, media members, you know, former players. This is a situation. that went way too far. And you're right. Stephen A. Smith did have a good point, probably, as to owners will never forget this. Yep, this is not one that will be forgotten when they sit down to collectively bargain the next time. They're not going to be on the hook for somebody that does this to them, because really it comes off as, as Kendrick Perkins tweeted out, you know, one of the heists of the century if he gets his money.

Okay. Are we done for the day? That's all I got, boss. That's all I got to for today. Back tomorrow. Tommy will be back with us on Thursday, unless his schedule changes. Enjoy the day, evening, back tomorrow.