The Kevin Sheehan Show - Whose Investigation Is It Anyway?

Episode Date: August 29, 2020

Kevin and Thom react to the many statements issued by Snyder, the team, the commissioner, etc. to the Washington Post story from the other day. They also discussed whether or not Dan Snyder is treated fairly by the DC media before finishing up with the sports postponements of the last two nights. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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It's always worked out. There's no risk if you call Wind Donation at 86690 Nation. You can get a free estimate either online or they'll come into your home and follow all CDC guidelines. That's 86690 Nation or Windonation.com. You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. All right, it's a sports fix Friday. Tommy's joining me for a third day during this week. You're not going to ask me for more money for this week, are you? No, this is public service. Okay, wow. I don't think you usually do or offer yourself up for service unless it involves benefiting you. But I'm glad you're here today because I didn't do a show yesterday. wanted to just see everything shake out here. Rivera wasn't going to speak until later yesterday,

and I thought he said some things that were interesting. We left off the other day before the statement from all the statements that came out from Snyder and the team and everybody else, so we will get to that. We have sports on hold for a moment right now. I think the NBA planning to restart tomorrow. I did want to start with this because I don't know how I'm trying to think about how we got into this conversation on radio this morning. But I'll just ask you the question. In your phone contact list, how many dead people do you think are in it? About five or six. Do you think it's wrong to delete them from your contact list?

It depends if they meant something to me or not. Okay. Well, that's fair. Why? Why? Well, for whatever reason... Will you delete? This sounds like a country western song.

Will you delete me when I'm gone? Well, you delete me when I'm gone. Kenny Rogers, by the way, who, if he were in your phone right now, you didn't know him well enough, you might delete. Yeah. What started the conversation was, now I remember it, is Lude Olson passed away. Lute Olson, the great Arizona coach, built Arizona into a powerful program. They won the national championship in 1997. They went to 23 consecutive NCAA tournaments under Olson at Arizona.

And as I was doing the update at 6 a.m. this morning on radio, CJ said in my ear, well, there's another name in my contact list that I need to delete. And so I just said, you know, I came out and I said, how many dead people do you think you have? And he said, I got to have 20. I probably have 20 in my phone. I just looked at my first one, Birch Sugar. Oh, yeah. I still have him.

Here we, I'll tell you what I remembered right off the bat. It was just a couple of weeks ago. I think I, you know, was searching my contact list, I think, for Gary Williams. And I think I was going to text him something. And Gary Wichard's name popped up on the short list of, you know, WI. Gary Wichard was a long time. NFL agent and I knew him like he had some first of all he was coolies agent which that's not why I knew him I got I I had conversations with him about a couple of the players that he represented for the

redskins um over the years including adam archiletta if I recall and he was a very nice guy like a super nice guy and a well-known agent he passed away in 2011 and I looked at the name when I when I was searching the other day I'm like man he's in my contact list he's dead I'm pretty sure and I looked it up and I'm up and yep and so you know what I did I deleted it and then I wondered well is that disrespectful I don't think it's disrespectful I don't think it's disrespectful I mean like I said I think if if it meant something personal to you then I mean look this is not a measure of your compassion the leading dead people from your phone list no I don't think I don't think it is either I don't think I don't think it is either I just was curious as to how many you probably have.

I guess, I'm going to guess I have five or six, too. C.J. being a producer of sports shows for a long period of time is going to have quite the Rolodex. Like, I have Frank Robinson. You have Frank Robinson? Who's your most famous person in your contact list? Off the top of your head right now, who is it? Probably Sugar Ray Leonard. I have him in mind, too.

Yeah. Trying to think. I mean, I've got John Beck on my phone contact list. God, you loved him. Oh, and so did the Shanahan's. Except they really didn't. All right. Where do you want to start today?

You want to start with the follow-up to the post story? Because we spent, you know, we got on, we got, we did this show right after the post story came out. on Wednesday, and then all of the statements started to come out, and it's a little bit odd that the owner put out a statement, then the team put out a statement, and then the senior VP of media put out sort of her own statement, then the new team president sort of put out his own statement. What did you make of all that? Well, I would say that the paper clips are all not pointed in the same direction. No, they're not.

That's what I would say. They're a little bit disorganized on his desk. Yes. There are some going one way and some going the other way. That would be a problem. He might walk in and go crazy if he sees that. When you read the statement from the owner as opposed to the statement from the team. And for a guy who said he's going to be more hands-on, I'm surprised that there was such a difference in statements.

Yeah. No, what did you think? I mean, I'm ready to go if that's all you got. Well, what did I think? I mean, I thought that it really doesn't matter what Dan Snyder says unless he cops to it. I mean, of course he's going to deny, deny, deny an attack. I mean, that's standard operating procedure. You know, I mean, it's what he wants to.

It's just a pinch of what he really wants to say or wants to do. And I think the team response shows at least a level of intelligence in public relations-wise from the new brain trust over there of Jason Wright and I'm assuming Ron Rivera. Yeah. Well, okay. So first of all, you know, we were just digesting that story the other day. And, you know, I went back and read it again and, you know, then did radio yesterday and did it again this morning. Did you have any other thoughts about the post story? Anything that we didn't talk about the other day?

No, I didn't, but I had some thoughts about Roger Goodell's statement. Okay, go ahead. In response to the post story, you know, I mean, I've been very critical of this. notion of an independent investigation into the football team by Beth Wilkinson. And I still am. I'm still very skeptical of it. But there were a couple of things in Goodell's statement that I thought were noteworthy. An independent investigation into these issues is in process, led by highly experienced counsel

recommended by our office. That part, the recommended by our office part, stuck out to me. Snyder didn't go out and hire this woman. I read into that that the NFL told him to hire her. I don't think they put that language in there if this basically wasn't an order, that this is something that Snyder had better do. So I don't think they just mentioned,

well, here's a lawyer you could use, Dan. she'd be really good. I don't think that's the way it went. All right. So you think now that it may be more independent than you thought before? Well, I think I think that there's a chance that, look, it can't be independent when the owner is paying the bill for it, no matter what kind of language is. But what's the purpose of it? I mean, the purpose of an investigation like this, I said before, is to make sure the owner,

has a condom around them to protect him from all the stuff that's gone on there. Now I think the motivation may be to give the league the vehicle they need to force Snyder to sell. And, you know, I think when you have that kind of an investigation, you know, well, what you're suggesting is that maybe he didn't have a choice in the investigator. I don't know if that's true. but I would also suggest to you that maybe the minority owners had a voice in who the investigative entity was. But I don't know that. It's a, I also, from the league statement, I also, and let me read it for those that didn't read it.

And we're jumping ahead a little bit because I want to go back to his statement here in a moment. But the statement from Roger Goodell on the Washington Post report was, quote, we strongly condemn the unprofessional, disturbing, and abhorrent behavior and workplace environment alleged in the report, which is entirely inconsistent with our standards and has no place in the NFL. An independent investigation into these issues is in process, led by highly experienced counsel recommended by our office, which is what Tommy was just referring to. We will continue to monitor the progress of this investigation and ensure that the club and its employees satisfy their obligation to give full cooperation to the investigators. If at any time the club or anyone associated with the club fails to do so, the investigating

counsel has been asked to promptly advise our office, and we will take appropriate action. Okay, stop there. Yeah. Stop there for a second. Okay? That tells you two things. First of all, it should indicate that these nondisclosure agreements have to go. Anyone who's a red-skinned employee who has been not allowed to, felt they haven't been

allowed to talk about this because of a nondisclosure agreement, this would indicate that the team has to basically get rid of it. Why does that indicate that? Because that's failing to cooperate. Well, I mean, not absolving them of their non-disclosure payment, that's literally failing to cooperate. I don't see that as failing to cooperate. You might be right. I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's not what came to my mind.

Here's the other thing. Okay. The other thing is the investigating counsel has been asked to promptly advise how often. Now, if Dan Snyder hired this woman and she's working for Dan Snyder, why would she be compelled to contact the NFL? Yes. I agree with that. I agree with that. When the investigation concludes... So that indicates to me, this is a league investigation. When the investigation concludes we will review the findings and take any appropriate action at that time.

Yeah, well, I think the fact that it was recommended by our office and the line that you just suggested, the investigating council has been asked to promptly advise our office if the club fails to cooperate, you know, indicates that at the very least the league is at least half involved. They're co-authoring, they're involved with the team in picking this investigator. and we know that the league probably doesn't want a horrible result, but wouldn't mind a result that leads to him being forced out. Because that's, I think, what the league would love to have happen. But I don't know if all the owners want it to happen,

but I think Goodell and the league wants a new owner in Washington. But I want to go back to his response, because we didn't have a chance to do this on the podcast, because it came out afterwards. I don't have a problem with someone defending themselves publicly against what they believe to be false accusations. And specific to the post story, there were three different accusations that involved the owner. The two videos and the proposition on Fight Night in 2004, when he proposed, when he propositions, or asked one of his cheerleaders to go up and get to know his best friend in a hotel room,

much better. As we discussed the other day, there's not a smoking gun recording or an email. It's a he said, she said on those things. And even on the video, even though they've got the videos, you have one person saying that, you know, Larry Michael suggested to him that we're putting this together for the owner. You know, it's still he said, he said in that situation. I don't know if he ordered up these videos or not. I don't know if he propositioned that cheerleader on fight night or not, because there really

isn't any proof. What I keep coming back to is this. In two different stories over a six-week period, 42 women have come forward to claim that they were sexually harassed in his building that he owns by people. that he hired. And that is not one or two or three, you know, he said, she says, that's 42. And apparently, Tommy, there are a lot more. And, and I don't know that we've seen the end of this. You know, if you read this story from yesterday that Lisa Banks and Katz from that law firm, that employment law firm downtown, they sent a letter to Roger Goodell on behalf of a dozen

former employees of the skins requesting an independent investigation into the allegations of sexual harassment, and they ask that Snyder be suspended pending the outcome and that he should be removed if the investigation backs up the claims of former employees. But let me get back to my point with respect to his response. I don't have any problem with somebody who's been, in their own mind, falsely accused, defending themselves. But there are major issues with his. response. We'll start with the fact that he begins by saying that I take full responsibility for the culture of our organization. Well, that's the first time I think he's ever said it or put it in print before. But it really... I think you're right. But it really rang immediately hollow when in the next

paragraph he writes, I've admittedly been two hands off as an owner and allowed others to have day-to-day control to the detriment of our organization. First of all, how many people in the fan base said, two hands off? Are you kidding me? And then he said, going forward, I'm going to be more involved. Well, nobody wants that. But he passes the buck immediately and pretty much blames Bruce, if you're reading between the lines and others. And then he claims about the story that basically it's not true, you know, that it's a hit job. You have to, and then I'll just, add, clearly the paper clips are all not, you know, facing in the same direction because this was not a team that was super organized in their response to this latest story. You've got him with a

response. You've got the team with a response. You've got the team president with a response. You've got the senior VP of media with the response. And by the way, Julie's, Jason's, and the team's response was compassionate, hit the right chords, brief to the point, you know, with the the accusers in mind, Dan's, was completely the opposite. So here's the problem. Again, I think you and I would be much better at helping these people, but it's hard to help somebody who doesn't want to be helped. But the first thing you have to do, you have to acknowledge that there's an issue here,

and we are absolutely apologetic and sorry to ever. anybody who went through this in our organization, and we are working to improve that. And we understand if you don't accept our apology, but we're going to make it anyway. But our goal is to completely make sure that the next female that works for us and the females that are working for us right now have a completely different environment, a welcoming and respectful environment. He doesn't really even mention any of that. It just gets to what he wants to get off his mind, which is how pissed off he is that he was accused in this piece. And it's just the wrong way to do it.

Like you can defend yourself. You know, there's a way to do that. And there's a way to point to the investigation and say, you know, I'll be able to answer the direct accusations when our investigation is done. but for the time being, I want all of those women that were in that story to know how sorry the organization is and how hard we are working to make it a completely different environment. That's where you start. You start by at least acknowledging those 42 women, all right, that were, you know, proposition that were treated and marginalized, treated poorly, ogled at, you know, all. of those different things, you've got to acknowledge that, and you've got to apologize for that, and you've got to take accountability for that. You just have to, and he's not ever able to do that.

You know what? I mean, this could be trying to get into the simple mind of Dan Snyder. He literally, this reaction is like somebody who's cornered, like an animal who's cornered. Somebody suggested that to me today on radio. I mean, that's what it is. I mean, he's got it from all, all area. He's got a city, and I know it never liked him much to begin with, but he's got a city that hates him now in terms of a fan base. He has, I mean, there's nobody in the media right now,

not one person that he could consider a friend, you know. and he's got you know paying now imagine this Wilkinson investigation

now we're up to 42 women and it's growing if she's going to interview all the women and the people involved in all those cases you imagine the bill the legal fees

involved in this investigation that he's going to have to pay for and what's interesting is I found that Adam Kilgore's story from the Washington Post I had passage in it about why Snyder is paying for this lawyer.

The league also wants to force teams accused of misbehavior to pay their own legal fees as a deterrent to creating a toxic workplace culture, another person with knowledge of the league's thinking said. You know what? It makes sense because you're right. this is going to be very expensive. This is a, this is a multi-million dollar

investigation. Yeah, and this isn't, this isn't the, I mean, let me, this isn't the legal firm of TV and company. No. Let's multiply, let's multiply

$2,000, let's multiply $2,000 bucks an hour, certainly $1,500 an hour. I don't, at this point, I don't even know what a super expensive lawyer is, but $2,000 a hour. is probably a guess, right? Somewhere in that range? We could ask Neal and Rockville.

I would think so. I don't know. I mean, this woman has represented Microsoft, Georgia Pacific, heavy hitters in the corporate world. Let's just say that it is a 40 hour a week, which it's going to be more. and because it's 40 hours a week times multiple lawyers. Not all of them billed at the high price point. And I don't know, a 10 to 12 week investigation. So let's just do this, 80 times 12 times 1,500 I'll put in there. That's $1.4 million in billing. Yeah.

And I think we're being conservative. We might be. I honestly. Yeah. The number of people she's going to have to talk to appears to be continuing to grow. Yeah, I don't, I think that's true. And, yeah, I mean, there are going to be some people we know that are not going to be in,

you know, actually, I was wondering this. I wonder if there's any legal action that can be taken on that video thing. By who to who? by those that were shot while they, you know, had bare breasts and then used without their knowledge. That's not legal. No, that doesn't, I mean, that may be. I would suspect that at this point, those who were victimized by that would probably feel better served in the Civil Court of Justice as opposed to the criminal court. I would agree with you.

But, you know, after they pay this law firm, there may not be much left. The other thing about his response is this constant referring to these allegations being, you know, so long ago. You know, that, you know, these are allegations from 10 to 20 that are 10 to 20 years old. So what? You own the team 10 years ago. You own the team 20 years ago. You own the team 20 years ago. And not all of them are that way.

But when he talked about Tiffany Scorby, the cheerleader in the incident on fight night, he said, Mrs. Scorby did not report this alleged incident to anyone at the team in 2004 in her eight years as a cheerleader or at any time in the past 16 years, which, by the way, as we know when it comes to sexual assault, that doesn't mean anything. You know, that doesn't mean anything when you're talking about someone who's been victimized. if that's true on that particular claim. But nothing about, he mentions the, you know, how long ago these accusations were as if that matters.

I mean, they involve him, they involved the team that he owned at the time. I don't know, and, you know, I don't know what the statute of limitations are on this stuff, but I don't know that, you know, I don't know that he's going to go to jail for sexual assault. I don't think anybody in the organization will. But the point here is that this is all about whether or not it was enough, and it is enough for the league to force him to sell. I still come down on the side of, I don't think so. But I don't think he's going to own the team three years from now.

I think it's going to be something else or maybe even his choice, you know, or the pressure from the minority. owners, which obviously he's dug his heels on a little bit right now. Here's the other thing, Tommy. You know, what we really have seen here, you know, with the owner and the different statements, etc. And by the way, Ron Rivera said something yesterday that really sort of distanced himself from the Snyder statement, which I thought was interesting. But what we're seeing here, once again, is an organization that doesn't know how to message its customer base or does know how to message. but it doesn't matter because the owner, you know, or the team president in recent years when

Bruce was there, just have other ideas and convince that they've got all the answers. It's a continuation, though, overall of just an owner that can't get it right because he doesn't know how to do it the right way. And it's this terrible combination of being arrogant and not, you know, that bright when it comes to a lot of this stuff. And by the way, a tremendous lack of self-awareness. Remember we read in a story a few weeks. ago about one of his favorite answers when he doesn't get agreed with is you don't know what the hell you're talking about. And that's what we probably saw here. Somebody may have said, you don't want to put this seven paragraph statement out. Here's another way to do it. And he said,

you don't know what the hell you're talking about. People who tell him no, usually don't work for him long. So that's why anybody, that's why I've had very little respect for anybody. That's high up in that organization who has worked for Dan Snyder for a long time because I know what they've had to do or I have a good idea of what they had to do in order

to keep those jobs. Yeah. No doubt. Poor Ron Rivera. You know? Oh, my God. He just... Oh, my. I mean, just like his world changed. His world

so dramatically has changed. since he agreed to coach the Redskins. The football team, the Washington football team. I'm getting much better at catching myself with that. But you're right. I feel so sorry for him. I mean, he is taking questions on that, on everything that happened in Wisconsin, and the players taking the day off.

And he's been very capable. Very capable. They're lucky. damn right because yeah imagine Jay trying to answer all these questions I mean no he's been you know I think the one thing we've learned about him

and I sort of had this sense about him anyway is that you know he is a decent person who does the right thing and he's got really good instincts but they come from a place I think of the way he really feels I think they're genuine but one of my favorite parts

of you know I mentioned by the way, you know, he sort of distanced himself, excuse me, from some of the other, from the Dan Snyder stuff. And he said, you know, well, I think the first one, obviously, referring to Dan's note was a personal message. And then the second one was from the team. Apparently, I think the thing everybody's got to understand is that Mr. Snyder put one out as a personal note. And then he had us do one as a team as an organization. organizational one. He refers to Dan yesterday. He referred to Snyder as Dan multiple times yesterday for pretty much the first time. A lot of people think that, you know, this is an intentional thing that they,

that Dan, that Ron and Jason and Julie all see it coming and they're trying to distance himself, themselves from him already. They just got here. But one of the things that Ron said at the end of the press conference. He said, you know, he once again, in a very subtle way, he's done it less subtly in the past, is he tried to urge the media to look forward. He said, I know people criticize me for saying it, but guys, please, let's try to get this thing going forward. There's an investigation. We'll wait for the results from those folks, and then based on those recommendations, we're going to go forward. he wants the conversation to be about the football team. He doesn't want to deal with this anymore,

but when you have stories like this that drop, if you're in a coach-centric environment, which he is, you're going to get asked about it, especially when your owner doesn't talk. Yeah. I mean, they need to put Jason Wright out there more front and center. I mean, even though he's not involved in the football operation, He's the president of the business operation of the team.

He seems like he'd be, if I was this football team, I'd have him commenting about everything at this point. He'd be the face of the franchise about everything. That's what they're paying them for. I don't know if that's what they're paying them for. That's what I would tell. Yeah, well, I mean. I don't think that's what they are paying them for.

but perhaps that will he'll evolve into that position but it's Ron right now because God knows the owner doesn't talk he doesn't talk now what's interesting is you know the players

didn't practice yesterday because of what is going on in Kenosha and the furor and the controversies that have permeated throughout the whole sports world.

And instead, they had an open dialogue. According to Ron Rivera, in place of our practice at FedEx Field, the players, coaches, and football will meet as a football family and will continue our open dialogue on issues of racism and social injustice in our country. How much do you think Coach Kicks My Ass contributed to that? I have no idea. Who tweeted last night, he tweeted a Herschel Walker tweet that said Trump Pence 2020. Yeah, well, Herschel was a speaker the other night during the convention.

I know, and him and Del Rio are tight. But the same day. Oh, Del Rio and Herschel are tight from Minnesota probably, right? Yeah, yeah, I think so. So the same day that the football team mostly had this discussion or having it today, was it yesterday or was yesterday?

Yeah. The plan B head coach tweets out retweets Trump Pence 2020. I don't know what its role in the conversation was. I don't know. You know, it probably would work better in a baseball locker room given your assessment that most baseball players are Republicans and are Trump supporters. And I've got to tell you, I'm surprised at the reaction around the baseball.

I'm surprised at how socially active players have decided to be. Because baseball is usually, well, hockey also. But of the major sports in this country, baseball is usually pretty conservative. when it comes to political statements and movements. So I'm sort of surprised at how willing players have been to force the issue of not playing at this point. I don't know that they have much of a choice, Tommy. I mean, it's a sport that has minorities in it. It's not everybody's getting swept up into this.

The Bucks started it and the NBA followed. I think the NBA did the right thing by canceling all of its games. You had the discussion between the teams where the clippers and Lakers were actually trying to push an end to the entire season and not play the rest of the postseason. Baseball teams in Milwaukee, I think Milwaukee started it with the Brewers. I don't know that in this environment, even if players have a different point of view, I just don't know that it would, work, although some teams played last night. Yeah. Why did some teams play?

Did they just as a team vote to play? I don't know. I don't know. But I know in Colorado, I think the Rockies decided to play. Matt Kemp, I think, who played for them, you know, opted out. And then one of his teammates was quoted last night after the game saying, we messed up. we should have sat down with them. So there was already regret, at least in Colorado, for playing the game.

Interesting tweet by Mike Florio that goes to part of the heart of this. You know, President Trump criticized the NBA for this kind of activism, called it, you know, they're acting like a political organization, you know, and Floreo pointed out, but it's okay for UFC President Dana White to give a speech on behalf of the president during a Republican convention. Did Dana White give a speech during this? Yes, he did. Oh, he did. Yeah, during the convention.

I have watched really none of the Republican convention. I watched very little, if any, of the Democratic convention. It's not on my must viewing list these last two weeks. Now, take a break. Let's take a sports break for a second, because I know this is the kind of stuff. you live for. This is from Matt Parrott, from my paper, to Washington Times. At practice right now for the Washington football team, Chase Young just slipped the hell out of a screen pass. He closed out right there. There you go, baby. Good job, Matt. Keep us posted on all of that.

We should get to, you know, some thoughts we have on sports shutting down the last couple of nights to bring more awareness to what happened in Kenosha, Wisconsin. And we'll do that here shortly, but I wanted to mention to you that I had a caller this morning that created, you know, one of those days where the phone lines just immediately light up, Tommy. And he basically criticized me and the rest of the D.C. sports media for being too critical and too harsh on Dan Snyder and not objective enough on Dan Snyder, not being fair enough for Dan Stander.

And he admitted that he's not a fan of Dan Snyder and he thinks that he's been a bad owner, but he said the DC media just can't be objective enough and they just are way too critical of him. And of course I said, well, it's not my job to be objective. When it comes to this stuff, this is my favorite team and he's ruined it. so I don't want him to be the owner. That's by far and away, I felt that way for many years. And so all of this that's been happening,

it's not that it excites me because of the victims involved, but it certainly there's an element where I am hoping it leads to him being forced to sell the team. Of course, most fans are. But what do you? You would have had some fun with this guy had you been on the air. with me this morning when he said you guys are being way too, you guys are being way too critical of the owner.

Yeah. You know, I mean, as much as we want to think that, and I'm included in this, that reporters are objective, and we're not talking about reporters per se. I'm not a reporter. I'm paid to write commentary. But human beings are our subject. to the same kind of emotions and impact from outside forces. And in times like this, when you're in trouble,

this is when you bank the benefit of the doubt you've earned over your time in the public. And Snyder had nothing in the bank. Zero. He's earned the benefit of no benefit of the doubt. And so most people are going to come down to believe whatever negative is written about Dan Snyder because they believe he's capable of it. Has your opinion changed from the other day

about the information in the last story being enough or not? It has not changed. I think now I do think the Beth Wilkinson report is a vehicle the NFL will use to get rid of Snyder. Oh, so you do. Okay. I do think, yeah.

The story from the other day isn't what will drive it. It's the Wilkinson Investigator report. That'll come out, that'll say this guy should, you know, this guy allowed this to happen and that to happen for this culture to exist and did this level of damage. He's got to go. I think it'll be something like that. I think that the NFL is driving the

Wilkinson investigation, and Snyder just has to write the checks for his own execution. That's pretty funny. How long will this thing take? How long did that Ted Wells deflategate thing take? That took a long time. Yeah. I think it could... I mean, how many people did he have to talk to in Deflate Gate? I mean, my God, I mean, I compare it to maybe the Mary White, New Orleans, maybe Bountygate. Yeah. How long did that take? I don't know. Remember, at Bountygate, people walk. their job. I mean, they lose, but they lost time at work as a result of Bounty Gate. I'd be curious how long that took. That might be more comparable in terms of all-encompassing, but I'd be curious to look back at some of the NFL interviews and the scope of them compared

to the scope of what we think this will have to be. But that'll dictate the time. Yeah. I'm looking at the Ted Wells report on Deflate Gate. The report of the investigation was released in May of 2015. The game was played in January of 2015. So that's pretty quick turnaround. On January 23rd, so it went from January 23rd to May. So it was February, March, April. It was basically a near four-month investigation.

She was hired, what, a month ago in July, after the first post report. So if you account for many more people involved and you double it and say that it's going to be an eight-month investigation, then we are basically into the spring next year before we get it. Yeah. Okay. That was interesting. Let me tell you real quickly about my bookie.

Winning season has returned to my bookie. Games will be played, we believe, this weekend, the NBurkey. schedule to resume tomorrow. I think the NHL tonight, baseball, the Nats are in Boston to face the Red Sox tonight at mybooky.ag winning season means hitting all of your parlayes and props with your feet up watching your team trounce their rivals. Rejoice. It's time to celebrate the NFL season. Invest in your intuition and knowledge. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and double your first deposit. New players get up to $1,000. in free play designed to add more excitement to the sports you love and the games you bet.

From live betting to championship futures, every play you want to make is waiting at My Bookiee. It's simple. Make your picks. Win big, collect your cash. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. And you'll double your first deposit. Your winning season begins today only at my bookie. Bounty Gate, Kevin. Yeah. Bountygate supposedly began. The investigation that began, and according to the police report, the investigation began in 2010. It was released. The report was released in March 2012. Yeah. And that doesn't even, that's probably half the amount of people that she'll have to talk to, or even one-third.

More important. I mean, they probably had to talk to everybody on the roster. It may be half. but that took almost two years. More importantly, two tweets from Skins practice, Riannon Walker, the athletic. I'm not sure how J.D. McKissick snuck out, but offense with a good fake,

Dwayne Haskins works back to his left, finds McKissick all by himself, and he takes it all the way up field for the big play. There you go. I don't know if he scored. I don't know if he scored or not. I hope he did. J. P. Finley, Haskins starting to cook.

Couple of tight throws in a row, and quarterback coach Ken Zampeze yells, nice rep, seven. Nice rep. There you go. What's the problem? Everything's going to be just fine. All right.

Let's get to what's been happening in sports and in the world here over the last couple of nights. The sports world has shut down here the last couple of nights because of obviously the events in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Last night there were seven major league games postponed because of the Jacob Blake shooting in Wisconsin. Every NBA and NHL game was postponed last night. The WNBA has been postponed for a few nights.

Golf continued. Some players suggesting that maybe they should have delayed the start of that BMW FedEx playoff at Olympia Fields. but the plan is, as of now, for these sports to resume. First of all, your take on the players deciding to make their feelings known by boycotting or striking, however you want to describe it, whichever verb you want to use. And then I would ask you, what happens next? Where does it go from here?

because as we've seen and as we know as a society now, and it's very sad and it's very tragic, but these things happen, and we all want them to go away, and part of the reason that they are, you know, that they're boycotting these games or striking from these games, taking these games off, is to bring attention to this, so we see this come to an end. But what was your reaction to it? I think they were using, finally using a vehicle that they have at this disposal, maybe the only one at this point for political power in the conversation that's going on in the country. I mean, as many fans might say, oh, I can't stand this, just shut up and play.

They'll still reach a number of fans who will hear their message. but more importantly, these are clients of corporate America, okay, of people in networks and Madison Avenue who want to make sure that their clients are happy. So what they need to do now is to enlist the big company. I mean, Nike's not a problem. Nike will jump on board no matter what. But the power that they have, I mean, if the games don't go on, there's a lot of people. that don't make money.

Obviously, the players included in that, so they have to be willing to make a sacrifice. But, I mean, to have this kind of impact, I think they have to enlist the corporate and business partners that are part of their world to get behind them on this. And I think this is what they need to do with it. Otherwise, and I think it's a powerful statement. I mean, I think it's one that I give them credit for doing. But in order to have an impact beyond today, they've got to make sure that the people that sign checks for them, if they want to see them play, have to get behind them. Do you think the platform's bigger by not playing than playing?

Temporarily, yeah. temporarily. Well, maybe temporary. I think patients would wear it thin, and I think we move on very quickly in this country, and there's certainly enough to occupy everyone's attention for the next two months at least besides sports. So, I mean, that platform is limited in time,

but for the moment, yeah, I think people will pay attention. past Labor Day? I'm not sure. I think the conversation there briefly the other day about shutting it down completely would have been a mistake. Because I think you're right that perhaps in a short moment it brings more attention to it. But had they lost that platform by not playing any more games, I think that would have defeated the purpose in many ways. And, you know, every player has the right to think the way they want to think. I think that's part of the problem in our world right now is that alternative opinion and action isn't accepted enough. I mean, and I think everybody should be all ears right now.

You know, but so if a player wanted to opt out altogether, I think that he should be allowed to opt out altogether. I mean, you know, that's been available because of COVID-19. George Hill was very moved by it. There were other players that just think that what they're doing, you know, by playing these games is, you know, trivial. And it's not what they should be doing. They should be involved in these protests. They should be involved in using and being involved. You know, but I would suggest that they are involved and they are using a platform.

You know, if you've watched an NBA game, my God, I mean, it's black. Lives Matter everywhere. Every single jersey has a message on it on the back of the jersey in addition to the name. There hasn't been a sport that's returned that's done more to, you know, make people aware of, you know, obviously one of the key issues being police brutality against, you know, black men in particular. I think that would have been a mistake had they not chosen to to continue to play. But if a player really feels like he can't do it, like his head and his heart isn't in it,

you know, then let them leave. Let them leave. Overall, Tommy, I think that that's my opinion about all of this, is that there are a lot of people that are essentially, you know, doing the shut up and dribble thing. You know, that's, they're entitled to their opinion just as others that feel the opposite, entitled to theirs. I would just say that typically there's rarely anything that you lose by listening.

Doesn't mean that you have to completely be in lockstep or in agreement with what you're listening to. But there's nothing lost through listening. Look, I've been enjoying the games. So from a selfish standpoint, I want the games to continue. This is the first time over the last week and a half that I've enjoyed sports or team sports since it restarted. But I don't know, Tommy, I looked, you know, what happened in Kenosha, seven, I mean, my biggest takeaway more than anything else, and I've got a lot of opinions on it, but is seven shots is a hell of a lot. That just doesn't seem right.

There seems something wrong about somebody being shot in the back seven times. Was it George Floyd, which was an absolute no-brain? No, I think there's more complexity to it, but seven shots is too many. At the same time, like I've said to you before, many times when we've had this conversation before, you know, it's simplifying it. I'm pro good cops. I'm anti-bad cops, especially bad racist cops. And I recognize that there are some out there.

You know, I want those bad cops eradicated. I want them gone, but I want the good cops recognized for the job they do too, because they're very necessary, in my opinion. Very necessary. I agree with you about that. Listen, part of the problem is the good cops haven't gotten a message that it's in their best interest to help police themselves. I mean, as far as most police unions are concerned, there are no bad cops. Everything the cops do is right, and they should never be put on charges for anything.

That's basically the philosophy of most police unions at this point. So part of the problem here with the image of the police in terms of course there's so many more good cops than there are bad cops. but, you know, the thin blue line, however you want to describe it, they're reluctant to acknowledge the bad cops. The people in that industry who make a living doing that do not want to acknowledge that some people around them should not be police officers. Look, these play... This is Jackie Robinson Day, by the way, of all days.

Right. Because it was supposed to be April 15th, but obviously there was nothing going on. So this is the day everybody wears four. Right. And this was actually the day of the March on Washington in 1965 with Martin Luther King's famous speech, and also the day that Jackie Robinson first met with Branch Ricky, which led to him playing for the Brooklyn Dodgers. This is a great quote from Jackie Romance. I think that says it all. It is no time for business as usual. I think that's right. Whatever that means.

Well, we haven't had business as usual for six months. No. But I understand the point here. Look, I think that it's an incredibly difficult conversation, but not everybody believes it's as difficult. And that's where I have the problem. I like people to be open-minded on both sides. These players are asking their customers,

if you will, their fan base to just listen. If your automatic, if your default is get the hell back out there and play, this was a man who was resisting arrest. I don't know if you saw the Brian Erlacher tweet, the former Chicago bear. I just think it takes a measure of compassion. It takes a measure of compassion. It takes a measure of self-confidence in some ways to listen and be open-minded about something

that you are absolutely convinced you're right about. Because this is so complex, the whole police reform thing. You know, there's been progress here. The data suggests that since Ferguson, there's been progress. But it doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a lot more, you know. And it also, on the flip side, obviously, doesn't mean that everybody, you know, just gives up and goes home. And all of a sudden, everybody's, you know, there's a ton of unintended consequences, like a lot of people who rely on these sports to be played to make money to take care of their families.

You know, they have a responsibility in many ways to play these games. and I think they can do that and use this platform to also make people who aren't as open-minded, hopefully become more open-minded and aware of what they believe in and what they want you to know. Using that platform. I don't know, Tommy. I don't have all the answers. I just, I thought it would have been a mistake had they shut down the season. I think it would have been, too.

But now, you know what, if they start to play again, the Black Lives Matter T-shirts and logos, that you see don't fade into the background for a while now. Well, I don't know how they... I think for a lot... At some point, they fade into the background in people's minds. Now they're back to the forefront. I've always felt like in watching these things that I'm not going to deprive myself

of things that give me pleasure because of politics or because of activism. You know, have I gone to concerts where I'd prefer that the lead singer or somebody in the band not spend 10 or 15 minutes of the show telling me to, you know, conserve more water. Yeah, I would prefer that because I came there to see a show. But I'm not going to let somebody's political beliefs or, you know, off-the-court activism deprive me of enjoying the sport. I'm also going to be, as I have been with the NBA, open-minded to to what's turned off a lot of people.

People I know have been turned off from the NBA with all of the signage and all of the activism in games. But to me, it hasn't distracted from the actual games themselves, which have been phenomenal here recently. I'll tell you this, Tommy, when it comes to week one of the NFL, if the NFL players decide they're going to make a statement and not play week one of the NFL season, that will be in many ways, Tommy, that could be much more problematic because the NFL appeals so much more to a base and a political belief that is more in line with, hey, don't be active, don't be political,

don't be outspoken politically during my Sunday afternoons. The NBA appeal. to a different demographic for the most part. The NFL appeals to all demographics. They're never going to reach those people. The impact has to be in corporate America, corporate boardrooms, people who need to make millions of dollars. You're missing my point. You're missing my point.

I think those of us that have been watching the NBA are going to come back and continue to watch the NBA even after this two nights off. after making this statement and trying to bring more attention to these issues. I think if they do this in the NFL, they're going to lose a lot of fans again, and it's going to impact the business of the NFL as Kaepernick did in 2017. I don't think it will with the NBA. Now, the NBA ratings have been down anyway, but, you know, there are a lot of reasons for that.

Well, yeah, because one thing is because the product sucks. That's one reason. Well, it hasn't the last week and a half. it's been phenomenal. But yes, that nine-game stretch of playing out the regular season I didn't think was very good. And look, people learn to live without it, and it's weird to sort of consume it in August, you know, from August-October. Everybody's off a little bit.

But I think if the NFL, you know, takes off week one when people have been waiting for this, as long as they have, I think they're going to lose people. I think it's going to impact the business of the NFL. If that's the case, if it's that powerful, then that's the statement they should make. If you think it's that powerful Don't you? Yeah, I think they'll lose some. No, no, don't you think that the NFL players have a much bigger platform?

Yes, I do. Yeah. This is why I think that they should probably sit out the first week if they want to have influence in this. Let's take a break. I think they should. I think the cost is worth it for them. I think it has a bigger impact for them than the loss of fans. look and it's going to be bizarre two months no matter what in this country.

So it's going to be hard to measure pluses and minuses. I think that's probably true. I mean, it all may get, you know, it'll all get come out in the wash anyway or get washed out in the wash with what will be happening in October and November anyway. Let's take a quick break so you can hear from one of our sponsors. All right. I did have one more thing that I just wanted to ask you about because there's thinking about this, and I wanted to circle back. Why do you think, you think now that the investigation

is more league influenced than team influence, that this is not a team-controlled investigation. Why then do you think this law firm, this Lisa Banks and Deborah Katz, wrote this letter to Roger Goodell representing more than a dozen, you know, former employees of the Washington football team asking for an independent investigation. Well, for one thing. Yeah. I mean, you want to turn the heat up as high as you possibly can. Yeah, but it seems to me that they believe that this is more of a team investigation that

will produce nothing. Well, okay, I'm reading between the lines, and that doesn't mean I'm right. But I think you are right. Well, I may be. But initially, from the outside looking in, it does not look like an independent investigation when no matter what kind of language they come up with when the checks are going to be signed by the owner of the football team. So I understand the call for it.

I mean, you know, they need to keep the heat on Dan Snyder right now. And an easy way to do that is to point out the full. flaw in this so-called investigation and to demand for more. Even if they, you know, they don't know, and I don't know what the real purpose of the league is in this. I'm guessing, I'm guessing based that there's reasonable people in the NFL that recognize that there is no value, no value at all in keeping Dan Snyder as an owner of this football team. But I don't know if there's reasons.

people in the NFL who believe that. So, I mean, I think they're doing, they're just turning up the heat. The other thing about that letter sent is they asked for Snyder to be suspended pending the outcome, which, you know, we've just sort of gone through, could take months, if not more than that. Do you think the league would consider that? I didn't even, I didn't bring this up when we were talking about it, and I didn't even think to bring it up on the radio show this morning.

I wonder if Goodell has considered suspending the owner. I wonder if he can suspend the owner for this. It's conduct detrimental to the league. I mean, all of this is. I think he can. And I think they have to, I mean, I think they've got to wait until the investigation's done. I think they, I mean, yeah, I think they have to wait.

But as far as suspending them, maybe that will be the outcome of this. Maybe they don't force them to sell, or maybe to suspend them while they're trying to get the team sold to somebody. And what the hell does suspending an owner mean anyway? I mean, to the fans. What does it mean? I get that means.

I mean, he's got to stay away from the team. but who's let, you know, nobody's allowed to go to games this year. Right. What would be the point? Yeah. That's true. All right. Are you done?

I'm done. Have a good weekend. I'm done, baby. All right. You'll have a good weekend, too. I'll talk to you later. We're done. I'll be back on Monday.

Tom, you'll probably be back in his normal Tuesday, Thursday, rotation. Have a good weekend. Stay healthy.