The Kevin Sheehan Show - Wilbon on Durant, Wizards, & More

Episode Date: July 1, 2022

Kevin opened with his initial thoughts on Kevin Durant asking for a trade, USC/UCLA to the Big 10, and a follow-up thought on Terry McLaurin's thank you letter. Then it was Mike Wilbon jumping on for the rest of the show to talk Durant, Wizards, USC/UCLA, and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. Wow. Yesterday when we got done with the podcast, there was breaking news with Kevin Durant wanting a trade with USC and UCLA going to the Big Ten.

We didn't cover any of it because the show had been published. We've gotten burned a couple of times by that this week. Terry McCorn's contract extension earlier in the week coming literally moments. after we had published the podcast, but plenty on the big breaking news stories of the day yesterday. Much of it with Mike Wilbon, who will be on the show with me. We'll talk about Kevin Durant wanting out, get his thoughts, where he'll end up, the wizard situation. And Mike will, of course, want to weigh in on the Big Ten expansion with USC and UCLA. Crazy the way college sports is headed.

That was the stunner for me more than anything else. Not that Durant asking for trade wasn't a bit of a surprise, but there's really nothing in the NBA that surprises anymore. But UCLA and USC going to the Big Ten, even the people that are in the know seemed shocked by that news. Where will college sports be three, four, five years from me? now. What will happen to the NCAA tournament if the SEC and the Big Ten end up being two mega conferences with 20 to 25 teams in it and they break off from the NCAA? I mean, the

prized jewel of college sports, the NCAA tournament, March madness. What's going to, what will happen with that? I have to say that as much as I hated it when Marilyn went to the Big Ten, as much as I still don't love being in the Big Ten, although I've gotten used to it and I've adapted and certainly a couple of years ago when Maryland had all of those big games during the 2020 season, the pandemic season, which prevented them from playing in the NCAA tournament, there were some cool matchups.

And I've been getting used to the Big Ten a little bit more as it relates to basketball. But, you know, Maryland, when they moved, I don't think then-Chancellor Wallace Lowe was prescient enough to predict that, you know, eight years later he would look like a genius or look like the smart guy. I think it was all about a money crunch that the athletic department was in when Debbie Yow overspent because of Ralph Friedgen's success with the football program from 2001 through 2010. and they, you know, they refurbished the stadium and they took on a lot of debt.

And the Big Ten came calling because the D.C. market, the Baltimore market, were two massive markets for the Big Ten network. And Maryland took the money. And now, you know, I had John Orand on the show earlier today on the radio show. And John said, you know, Maryland's sitting back watching everybody else play musical, musical, musical chairs without a worry in the world. And there's a lot of truth to that. Now, I think Maryland would have been a desirable target had they stayed in the ACC over the last few years and now because of the market size, you know, and they draw

from two big markets, certainly D.C. being the biggest, but the combined Baltimore DC market is a Maryland fan-based market and is big for any of these leagues. And so I think they would have always been a desirable target. But it is weird, man. UCLA, USC, this is the all-time, you know, kind of out-of-place conference reshuffle. You know, there have been some, you know, when, you know, West Virginia went to the Big 12. That seemed weird. Maryland and Rutgers going to the Big Ten seemed really weird.

But for the most part, you know, in the ACC moves, which really started a lot of this, when, you know, early on Miami, Virginia Tech and BCC bolted the Big East. to join the ACC. That was in many ways the beginning of all of this. But nothing seems as disjointed or out of place than two beautiful West Coast Pac-12 football powers, UCLA basketball power, obviously as well. And what that always represented to longtime fans like me

and traditionalists for the most part, you know, late November, it's cold, it's dark, it's damp, and you turn on the television, and the Coliseum lights up or the Rose Bowl lights up with the plush, beautiful green grass and the beautiful crisp uniforms and everybody bathing in sunshine as SC and UCLA play each other or play another Pac-12 West Coast team. And now you're going to end up with its early November. and SCs ranked fifth in the nation, and they got a big game, they got to win it to stay in the hunt at Minnesota or at Illinois or at Maryland.

Anyway, it really seems off to me. I think the next moves are going to be really interesting. You know, the Big Ten is eyeballing another West Coast team or two, perhaps Oregon, Washington. and then I think they've got their eyes on Notre Dame and the ACC. And I've been reading a lot since yesterday. North Carolina is a possibility. Duke is a possibility. Virginia's a possibility. That would be the one part of this that for me and for Maryland people might be a bit of kind of a nice,

you know, consolation prize to the eight years of in the Big Ten by ourselves is having some of our old rivals and friends from the ACC join us. And especially if they made an emphasis or emphasized sort of crossover rivals, the teams you played every year twice in basketball, once in football, and it was the old ACC schools that joined the Big Ten. I think that there will be ACC schools coming. Everybody seems to think North Carolina's a really, you know, there's a really good chance the Big Ten's going to go hard after North Carolina.

They went hard after North Carolina when they went after Rutgers. After they had Maryland in the fold, they wanted North Carolina or Virginia before they went to Rutgers. But Carolina and Virginia decided to stay and we'll see what happens. But a crazy day in college sports and the landscape of college sports, it's just all going to change significantly over the next three, four, five years. There are long-term television contracts in place. There's a long-term deal with TNT for the NCAA tournament. I think it goes for another 10 years through 2032, but we'll see how it all shakes out. And then there was the Kevin Durant thing, and we're going to get into this with Wilbon here shortly.

I just, I'm a little bit conflicted. On one hand, and I think most of you would think this would be my immediate reaction, What are you doing? You're ruining your legacy. You're insecure. You're a bandwagon jumper. You're a quitter. All of those things that many people are accusing Kevin Durant of being. My first reaction was, and I'm going to ask Wilbon about this, my first reaction was, wow, Kyrie Irving has become the least desirable superstar to play with in recent memory in any sport. He is ego-maniacal. he is off his rocker nuts, and nobody wants to be around this guy. He is toxic. And Kevin Durant, when he picked up the player option after they couldn't trade him the other day, just said, I can't do another year with this guy. That was my original reaction.

You know, there is a lot of varying opinion on this. Some believing that Kevin Durant, when got really upset when they didn't give Kyrie Irving the long-term contract extension. But why would they? You can't give that idiot a contract extension. When he plays, when he feels like playing, you'd have to build in in that contract. You'd have to put so many ways in which you wouldn't have to pay him

if he decided he was going to take a week off to hang out with his kids and attend their birthday parties and miss three or four games. You'd have to have so much building. that would penalize him severely. And it's not worth it. Nobody wants to do business with Kyrie Irving anymore. LeBron didn't want him, and now I don't think KD wants him. But there's varying opinions on that.

So on one hand, I'm like, it's Kyrie. On the other hand, I'm like, you know, Durant's got to suck it up at some point and stay with it and be a pro. They gave him every single thing he wanted. They gave him Kyrie Irving, they gave him Hardin, they gave him, you know, a half of a coach with no experience. They gave him everything he wanted. And now he's going to bail after winning one playoff series. And then the part of it that makes me just hesitate a little bit is this.

I've grown to like Kevin Durant much more over the last year and a half, year and a half than I did before. I used to believe that, you know, with the burner accounts and, the incredible sensitivity to criticism and jumping on Golden State's team after losing a 3-1 series lead when they were on the verge of going to the NBA finals in Oklahoma City for a second time and they blew the 3-1 series lead. And, you know, remember in game six, he was 10 for 31 at home when they had a 3-2 series lead and they could have put him away. He was terrible in that game.

And then he jumped on Golden State's team. And look, he was the best player on the team. for those two championship runs. He was better than Steph Curry. I mean, the team as a whole, he wouldn't have done it without Curry or without Draymond Green or without Clay Thompson, but he was the best player and the MVP twice. And then he decided to leave Golden State and decided to do it somewhere where maybe, you know, there wouldn't be a debate over who was most responsible for winning the title. But man, he bailed on this quickly, but I also looked at him and what he did in Brooklyn.

He shows up to play these games, man. They took every ounce of sweat and blood from this man's body over the last two and a half years or two years. I mean, the series that he played against Milwaukee last year, when in games five and in game seven, he didn't come out. He played 48 minutes in game five, 53 in that overtime game seven, and really was just a toe on a three-point line away from winning that series pretty much single-handedly. They wore him out in the regular season this year where, you know, there was no Kyrie Irving. And in the playoffs, he got beat up by Boston. And they got swept. You know, they got swept by a Boston team that ultimately lost 10 playoff games.

And they swept Brooklyn. But those four games were close. And Durant didn't play great, but my God, they got every ounce out of him. And I just, the thing about him that I've learned, he is a badass player and a competitive. editor and he shows up. And I'd love to have him on my team. But at the same time, it's like, you got a man up here. You got to stick with a commitment. And if Kyrie Irving's the reason, I don't know. Part of me understands that. But he asked for him and they gave him to him. One other thing to get to get to Wilbon. We got a lot of feedback on our conversation yesterday about Terry

McCorm's letter that he sent out that he tweeted out to family, friends, co-workers, fans, and how classy it was and how happy some of you are that Terry McClearn's going to be with this franchise, you know, over the next four seasons. And I mean, I totally agree. I'm not setting this up for some sort of kill shot on this at all. There's no, there's no criticism. I mean, we talked about this. This was classy. This is who was. he is. And, you know, he said at one point, he said, you know, thanks to the whole organization for believing in and trusting me to be an ambassador for this organization. He really is. I mean, he's one of them. It's rare when like a wide receiver, not, you know, a coach or a quarterback or a middle

linebacker who's, you know, dominant kind of elite kind of a player. I mean, Terry McClorn, John Allen, are right now the ambassadors for this organization. I mean, you know, they've been the players in a lot of these pictures and on 2-22, and they should be because they're really good players, and they really are great representatives for an organization that hasn't had many of those over the years. But I wanted to focus on something that I didn't focus on yesterday from his letter. I'm not going to take a long time with this, but he said in his opening paragraph, He said, from the day I was drafted, I've had the singular goal to win a Super Bowl with this franchise.

This is on my mind every day when I walk into the building. While I am both humbled and ecstatic about this contract, it motivates me to work even harder. I understand and embrace the responsibility that comes with the signing of this extension. To whom much is given, much is required. This is such a mature take. and the reason I just wanted to mention something about it is because last week after the NBA draft, I made a comment that some of you tweeted me about, some of you agreeing and some of you saying that I was knocking the accomplishment of some of the players that were drafted in the NBA draft last week. My comments were, you know, every year I feel the same way in watching,

the NBA and even the NFL draft, that too many of these young people, and by the way, all of the people around them, view it as like the pinnacle, the culmination. They say it. This is the culmination of so much work. This is my dream come true. You know, I've been working for this for my entire life, you know, an 18, 19, 20 year old to be here on draft night and to be selected, you know, in the draft. And I'm not knocking the accomplishment. And if I were somebody that were close to somebody that got drafted, super close to somebody that got drafted, I would certainly be congratulatory.

And I would say this is something to be proud of. However, this is not a conclusion. This is the beginning. This is the start of something. Now that you've gotten there, and in Terry's case, now that you've gotten this big life-altering, generational value contract, now you have to go out and prove that you were worth it.

Because too many people in sports and whatever, you know, I'm not just saying in sports. They come to a moment where they, you know, accomplish something big. And when it's really early in their development, they view it too much as the end. like I finally got here. You know, I've talked about this before, but, you know, I was with a company many years ago. We took the company public, and the day the company went public, there was an incredible celebration and party. I mean, we partied like we had gotten there, like it was over, and we were younger. And the truth is, it was the beginning.

We were now a public company. We were going to have to report quarterly earnings. we were going to have to be, you know, followed by analysts and we were much more accountable. And now the job really began. Like we didn't want the stock to just go from where it was in its, you know, initial public offering down the tubes, you know, but we didn't view it that way. We were younger. We were naive.

And we partied. And it was anybody that's ever been through that, you understand it feels like this massive accomplishment. but the funny thing was at the time the company wasn't even profitable. And we were probably three years away at minimum from being profitable. And it was just this kind of fantasy land of dot-coms that were going public. And that's what I was a part of. And it was very naive, very naive.

And to hear Terry McClure, a week after I said what I said about the players that got drafted, say, while I am humbled and ecstatic about this kind of, contract, it motivates me to work even harder. I understand and embrace the responsibility that comes with signing this extension to whom much is given much is required. I don't know, there's just an indication that this is a guy, a young person, 26 years old, that gets it. And he understands that now he's got to go out, even though he earned the right to get this extension, now it's incumbent upon him to go out and make the people that gave it to him believe that they didn't give them enough

to overperform it because there's another one around the corner if he views this as a beginning which it certainly appears as if he is doing. I don't know. That's all I wanted to say about that. Mike Wilbonne next. All right, joining us on the show right now is Mike Wilbon and yesterday was

an insane day sports-wise. I would like to ask you when we get through the NBA stuff about what your reaction to USC and UCLA leaving the PAC 12 for now our league, the Big Ten. But we'll start with Kevin Durant. And I want to just go through it because I think a lot of people have an idea of what some of these answers are, but I want to hear what your answers are. And I want to start with this. Why did he ask for a trade? What specific is driving this? Well, a lot of hyper sensitivity, ego, selfishness.

I mean, Kevin Durant's a great, great, great, great player. And he's not the most sensitive guy and the most selfish guy, but he's he's not so unlike the others, Kevin. We can think of Kyrie Irving is having all those conditions

and he does, more so even than Kevin Durant. But Durant does two. And you look at this, it's so bizarre. It's just change, all the stuff that's going on with the Brooklyn Nets. And with each of those guys individually, all season, why he left in the first place, why do you leave? Kevin Durant's a smart guy.

Why would you leave Steph Curry for Kyrie Irving? I mean, I just suggest bad judgment on any level. many things going on. You know, I mean, how many deal with directly with basketball? Some very much not. But it's just, it's so bizarre. It's almost impossible to wrap your head around. So my initial reaction, and I don't know if I'm right, but it was, oh my God, this Kyrie Irving has become truly the least desirable place.

to play with in recent memory in the NBA. He's an egomaniac. He is off as rocker nuts. And Durant maybe finally realized it when he had nowhere to go because nobody wants him. And the player option, he picked that up. Durant's like, I can't do another year with Kyrie. That was my initial reaction. Am I right or wrong?

Well, if I write, that's my reaction too. I mean, at some point, I guess we'll hear, you know, directly from Kevin Durant. It may not be until the season starts, maybe before that. But I don't know if it's right or not, but that's my reaction as well. Look, LeBron James threw out, Kyrie, threw him out, after winning a championship with him, Kevin. So now it's LeBron and KD who said, I just, I can't deal with this guy. no. He's not the only one, but he's, you're right.

He's the guy of the moment with that distinction. Kevin Durant and LeBron James said, no, can't do this, don't want to do this. To your point, though, your original thought, and I hear, you know, in your answer and in your tone, this level of sort of resignation slash disappointment with Durant's sensitivity, with his, you know, borderline unprofessionalism. I mean, this is a guy that they gave everything to. Every single thing he asked for, they gave it to him. And now he's bailing. So what does this do to him? What will people think of him? You know, how does this impact, you know, the way we think of Kevin Durant? Because, Michael, I felt conflicted a little bit because I always felt him to be way too hypersensitive,

the burner accounts, the whole thing, you know, the joining Golden State after blowing the three one lead and him going 10 for 31, by the way, in the game in OKC in game six when they could have put him away and gotten back to the finals for a second time. All of that, except the way he has played and the way he has shown up for that team last year in that Milwaukee series, he had two of the historic performances ever in games five and game seven against the bucks. And if not for a toe on the line, maybe they go to the finals last year, you know, a year ago, basically. and the wear and terror this year, he looked worn out in the Boston series, playing 46, 47 minutes a night. So I felt like, you know, in some ways conflicted because I'm like, he's 34, he knows, he realizes with Kyrie, it's not going to happen here.

But what do you think people are going to think of Durant now that he's bailing again? Well, it depends. I mean, it depends on point of view. There are people who will make excuses for Kyrie Irving. One of them lives in my house. I mean, you know, I found out about this, because we did not have part in the interruption yesterday. I found out about this whole thing. When my son texted me and just says, it wasn't Kyrie's fault. This is KD's fault.

I'm like, what is he talking about? Depends entirely Kevin on point of view. A lot of people will see no harm in what Kevin Durant is doing at all and won't attach what he's done to sort of his profile, his behavior, his resume. And it's just what the NBA does. James Hart has done this three times. You just say, I'm done. I'm done here.

I want to go somewhere else and do it. And the culture of that sport allows it. I mean, how much of this is going to attach itself permanently, Kevin Durant? Depends on who you are. It depends on how you see the world, how you judge him, how you judge behavior. here. And, you know, I don't know that I will, yeah, I'm going to see Durant differently. I guess I am. I guess I already do. Would I want my team to get him? Yeah. I would. Right? Yes. I mean, ultimately, you still are going to say, this guy's so great, we're going to forgive him most things. Maybe not everything.

but we're going to take, we're going to say, yeah, I'll take him. Well, he shows, he shows up on game day. I mean, there's no problem with that. He does. You know, but this is so, Kevin, this is so crazy. The whole. It really is. You know, it's been close to 24 hours now and I still carry up my head around it.

It's funny, because I'm listening to you, and you, you love the NBN, and you know that I've loved it for a long period of time. And we have a mutual friend with, he works with you every day who doesn't like it nearly as much. And he makes fun of the fact that you love it so much and that I love it so much. And I'm hearing in your voice kind of the way I felt this week. And it wasn't just yesterday. It was John Wall, which by the way, I'm excited that he's going to the Clippers. But the fact that he got paid $47 million this year not to play, that Russell Whisper,

Westbrook picks up, you know, 47 million in a player option. These numbers are outrageous. The Bradley Beal numbers outrageous. And I think I, and then Durant yesterday, it's like, what is this doing to the NBA? And it's point of you. It makes it bigger. These guys are the biggest celebrities in sport. Nobody in the NFL other than Tom Brady has this kind of cachet of other people you just

mentioned. Nobody, Kevin? I mean, in the finals, I was talking to a couple of people. I ran into a couple of people who live in the United States, live and work in the U.S., but their parents live in work in Asia and are Asian. And the parents follow all this stuff. They follow every move, every word of it. and the only people who are bigger global celebrities,

not bigger, as big are soccer players. Right. Yes, true. So not only does it not hurt, it helps larger than life. It does not hurt the league. But you don't like it. I don't find it sort of comic, but I don't, it doesn't turn me off from it.

I look at it and laugh like you do and say, kidding me? This guy has won like one playoff series in his life and he's making $47 million. How many playoff series is Bradley Bill won? He's a one or two. They've won three series. They beat... It's three? They beat Chicago, they beat Toronto, and then they beat Atlanta before they lost to Boston. I think it's three, yeah. Wow, wow. Okay. You know, I like Bradley Bill a lot.

I mean, is he, he's not, he can't be the best player on a championship contender? No, no, no, he can't. Of course not. I'm not even sure he's at number two. I've said that before, too. And so, so, but does it mean he can say the league is flawed? I mean, maybe on some deeper examination, but, you know, I still make that judgment. and still

understand that what drives it Tony said the media today speaking to Tony Cornizer Tony's like where does this money come from it was just like

you know he just it boggles his mind and like your boss is in mind it comes from television networks doesn't come from box office it comes from TV where

how can UCLA and USC leave in something being crazier than the Kevin Durant Kirey thing It was stunning yesterday. The FC and UCLA are now in the big 10, Kevin.

I know. I want to get to that with you because I knew you'd have a big reaction to it. But yes, I mean, the money comes from the $9 billion with far fewer players, even though the NFL has more money in television revenue, they have many more players to spread it around. And so it's in, to your point, though, like obviously I think everybody understands, the global superstars that NBA players are. And for those of you who don't understand that, soccer is the most popular sport in the world.

The NBA's, you could argue, is number two. I think in some parts of the world, cricket might be number two. But NBA stars are global stars. But that doesn't mean that for people like you and me who love the game and are from here and watch it all the time, that a move like this with Durant and the money won't make us think differently about them and their legacies? And not that they

care or they should care, but, you know... Well, it might, it might make us think that way, even in terms of just strictly basketball. It might. I mean, you know, does this, will this dent, will this stick to Kevin Durant if he now

just sort of fades away in terms of what happens in May and June, and he's not part of the big action? It might. Depends on where he winds up. If we don't see him, if he got, you know, and that's kind of unthinkable because he can still impact the game that way. And you would think he wouldn't go somewhere that he can't be Kevin Durant. You all know who I am.

It may. It may, Kevin. We got to see where he winds up. Well, that's the next question. Yeah. I have no idea. No idea. None.

I mean, I was listening to Bobby Marks of our network explain why he really cannot wind up in Miami or Phoenix. Right. I was listening to that last night. And the New Orleans possibility that he brought up. Oh, I missed that. I didn't hear the New Orleans possibility. He thinks that the sleeper would be a team like New Orleans because they actually have something that Brooklyn might want back.

I mean, let's get to this. And I want to hear what you think about what's next. Because if I am the Nets, there is no way in hell that I am just trading Kevin Durant for a bag of don't. Like this is an opportunity that rarely comes around. You've got a superstar player. Forget how old he is. You can win a title if you get him in the next, or contend for the next two years, which if you aren't doing that now, you'll want to do it. But I'm not trading him unless I get Devin Booker back from Phoenix. I'm not trained Devin Booker. Well, then I wouldn't trade him to Phoenix. Yeah. Yeah, you can't because Kevin Booker, I mean, Devin Booker cannot be on the same team as Ben Simmons. because of, you know, rookie contract extensions. And I think the same thing is the case with who's on my, oh, with Bamar.

With Bamai. There's such a yes. Yeah. Exactly. And I didn't, Kevin, as much as I followed us, I wasn't instantly aware of that. Right. Me neither. But New Orleans, who am I taking back?

Is it, you're not going to trade Zion. Why not? The question is you're going to. Why not? Because I'm not sure that Kevin Durant at 34 years old, as opposed to Zion at 22. You're training up 12 years. Well, from Brooklyn's standpoint, I am only dealing him if I get back a potential next great young player that is going to... Wow.

And that's Zion Williamson or Devin Booker in Phoenix. But Brandon Ingram was the other possibility that Bobby Marks... I mean, I might do it as if I'm in... If I can get Brandon Ingram back. But what if he doesn't want to play in New Orleans? I mean, he probably may not. I mean, as we start to speculate on where Kevin Durant is going to wind up or want to be with fit or where he could win, I don't know if he has.

I don't know his contract. Dance you have to do if you're Brooklyn. You're right. You have given up. You've waved goodbye. to three first ballot Hall of Famers. Within like five months, Hardin, Duran, then Kyrie's got to go.

You can't have Kyrie by himself. He'll be 20 and 62. Kyrie couldn't lead a group of Boy Scouts. He's terrible. Well, he won't be 20 in 62. The games he plays in, they'll be like 10 and 28. Because he's only going to play half the games. He's not even, yeah.

He's not even, dedicated enough to his craft or anyone else give himself to a team. The Durant thing, again, I'm looking for Anthony Davis kind of compensation back, or you know what? Sorry, Kevin, you're playing here. Yeah, but I don't think they feel that way. I think they're looking at this from what we've heard. Why would the owner, Joe, why would he agree to this without first feeling he could get that?

And how many teams can give him that? How many? Four? I'll tell you a place he could give him to all that. And I'll tell you a place that I would think he might go. Oklahoma City. How can you imagine? You put him out there right now with Josh Giddy.

Yeah, they have those picks too. They got all those picks and, um, with, uh, they just, Gilgis Alexander, just the three of them. And they drafted home? Those three guys. And they drafted Holmgren.

And didn't they just signed Dort yesterday? They did. And they just keep him. Big money deal. That seemed crazy. Okay, that's a five-sum right there, Kevin. Say now that he can't go back to Oklahoma City, are they going to see him as flawed in some way?

You know the community would die to have him back. And you get the picks. I mean, you could just, I mean, Picks alone might interest, Brooklyn. Why do you think? he has never wanted to come home? There are a lot of players who don't want to go home. I remember saying to Grant Hill when he was a free agent back in like, I don't know,

2001 or something like that, before he went, when he left Detroit and went to Orlando, and I said to Grant, what about coming home? He said, I'm never coming home. And he loves, Grant loves D.C. And he, he just, I'm never coming home. And the complications, Kevin, are just, there, you know, there's so much that's going to be asked of you.

Yeah. And depends on your relationship with your family. And Grant has a wonderful relationship with his parents. I don't have to speculate on this. I know. I know that family and have most of my adult life. I covered the end of Calvin Hill's career. Yeah.

So at all of Grant's, and Grant has said, oh, no, no, no, no, no. no, no. And I think there was some attraction there. Grant talks with loving pride about Reston, Virginia, Northern Virginia, the DMV following Georgetown basketball growing up. All of it. And yet, again, the answer was, oh, no, no, no, I'm not doing that. And I get that. And Grant's not the only one. Grant comes to mind in the context of you and me and our discussions and where we live, and where we work and have, in your case where you're from, he's not the only one,

but Grant, of course, can articulate his position better than just about anybody. But never, he was one of them. And Kevin, Kevin, he didn't say it that definitively,

but it was kind of, you know, back, I was at Kevin Durant's house and we were sitting around talking about home. And I had hosted Kevin, enormous charity fundraiser

at his home and the money that he raised Kevin Terrent raised a lot of money for unbelievable purposes that relate to education and opportunity for children

in Prince George's County. Boys and girls. Trust me. And Kevin said to me, hey, can you host this? And I'm like, yes. Period. And we talked about home.

He loves this whole. but he also knows there's a set of demands that are enormous that a lot of guys don't want to do it. Some people do it and they regret it. Yeah, right. And Kevin, to me, I brought up Grand Hill

because Kevin seemed like he was on that path. By the way, Oklahoma City has just an unbelievable number of picks over the next five years. They have like 19 first round, picks over the next five or six seasons. Why wouldn't you try to get four of those and one of those young players and then go to town? Real quickly before the USC, UCLA and then we'll wrap it up.

What do you make, you spoke to it briefly, but this was the plan all along. If it wasn't the plan, then they should have traded him a year ago, talking about Bradley Beale. Five years, $250 million. You know, they've added. added a couple of pieces. They added Monta Morris. They added Will Barton. They added Dillon Wright last night. You know, they, I mean, what's their upside here with this situation? You said what I said and have been saying, Bradley Beal, I don't think, I think they're 15 players I can count right now that I would take in front of him. He's a really good player. He's an elite score, but he's not a number one on a championship contending team.

No, no, he's not. I mean, look, I vote for the All-League. honors. And I've voted Bradley Biel 13, maybe twice? So, no, he's not. He's a wonderful player. He's a wonderful guy to have on your team. A franchise wants to attack itself

to somebody like Bradley. There's no question. I love him. They're going to move any of this move them in the neighborhood of Philly, Boston, Milwaukee, Miami? No, no, no, no, and no. Are they

do they pull even with the team I thought they should have been at least even with last year the Bulls? No, not really. I mean, they're, how high can they be right now with that roster? A six seed, the highest they can be, right? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, if Porzengis, which is the big if, if he can play, you know, the majority of the games, and Beal can play the majority of the games. Sixth seed. You know, it's like a five or a six seed, you know, maybe 46. wins, 47 wins.

As high as they can go. Yeah. And if anything goes wrong, they can't get there. No. Or if other teams emerge. And so, you know, you've got to, the one thing you can do now, Kevin, is you can have a first-round draft pick who exceeds everything.

Of course. That's the, that's the, because you could have Joker with the second round pick. Right. You could have Janus, who was, what, 15? Wasn't Janus 15 or 13? Yonis, Kawhi, Butler. Kau? You know, yeah.

Yes. You can do that because guys stay only one year, and so people miss on these draft picks. Or people are MERS, people are late bloomers. So you can go into the draft. Now, you don't need the one, two, or three to draft a franchise star. You've got to get a little lucky, but you can do that. Even at 6-7, yes, you can do that. Devin Booker.

But the Wizards haven't had that stroke of luck slash genius just yet. And Bradley Bills a really nice piece, and he can be a nice piece of an ensemble. But, you know, the best player on a team that's seriously going to contend. You know that going into the season. No. You nailed it. Like, if you are the Wizards or any of these teams that haven't contended in a long, long time, some of it's been bad luck, some of it's been bad decision-making.

But if Rui Hachamura, who has some talent, if all of a sudden he were to explode into a Kauai, you know, people have compared his sort of physical stature and the way he plays to Kauai Leonard. He's no Kauai Leonard to me. But if he blew up overnight into a monster number one elite superstar, well, then you've hit on it. You know, I don't think that's Johnny Davis from Wisconsin who they drafted. It's certainly not Corey Kispert from last year or Denny O'Dia. But that's what you have to do. I mean, like we've talked about this before, but Oklahoma City that when they went, you know, Durant and Hardin and Westbrook and, you know, and the Warriors had Curry and Thompson and Draymond there.

And there is a certain amount of good fortune in that, and they've never had the good luck. You know, they've never picked the guy that no one else kind of wanted and all of a sudden he blew up into a superstar. Well, they did it once. Well, no, they traded it for. They made some good trades. Yeah. I mean, trading for Gilbert Arena. Right.

As crazy as that ended, it looked like for a while, he was going to be that guy who was a second round picking. They got him shrewdly. But no, they don't have Buddy Davis. Could he be, I guess? I mean, John Wall was overall number one, but he wasn't, he's not a player with that kind of impact. How about John? I'm kind of excited for him. I know that he, I mean, getting paid $47 million not to play,

getting paid more than almost any other athlete in any other sport not to play is an all-timer. But, you know, for him, if he's healthy, that team, they can win it all next year. And I'm not saying because they added, John, it's obviously because you get Kauai back, you know, healthy. And Paul George, Kevin, I don't see it. And part of it is one of the things is people don't, you realize this, but people following the sport in general or even very, very closely, they don't realize how great an organization Toronto was, is, is. Toronto is, every day. With a great head coach, too.

With a great head coach, a great team president, money. it's a national franchise. The Toronto Raptors, look at what, look at what Nick Nurse has been able to do subsequently one. He's a great coach. But look, they were a threat, man.

They did, listen, they were one quarter away from beaten Philadelphia in that series. And so. But Tyloos is a great coach. Tai Loo is a great coach. Yeah. But I don't,

I don't know that greatest Kauai is, I got to see his personality lead to him and different. I mean, Kyle Lowry was a much greater part of Toronto's championship victory than people understand. And they already had him,

and yes, they let DeMarre Rosen go, but they kept the more important of the two players with Kyle Lowry and the other guys they had on that team. And so Kauai didn't have to lead. He had to play. Yeah, but he did.

With the clippers, Ian Paul George, who was the great leader there? John Wall? I love John. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not saying. Who's the leader?

See, that, to me, it's not about playing. Who's the leader? So you got people in the Western Conference who can lead. And we don't even know yet. Like, where's Doreg going to wind up? Well, I know. The Doreb somehow wound up on the Suns. Okay, people think they were good last year.

If he's playing with Devin Booker and Chris Paul, guess what? for one year you're looking at a team that could win 68 games where it's going to wind up I don't see it with the clippers and people do and I know Vegas is going to proclaim them very shortly as like you know the second or third if not the favorite but you know you know I never thought Brooklyn was the favorite I never thought that I just think it's too hard people just want to put together these super teams and think they can win it's too hard

yeah so many things they have to happen and be in place I mean first of all let's just assume that Durant doesn't doesn't end up out West because obviously that would change this conversation. I mean, already, like, you know, Denver, you know, gets Murray and Porter Jr. back. And, you know, you get Memphis on the rise with John Morant. Golden State's coming back. They just won a title. Minnesota's young and good.

You know, New Orleans hasn't had all their players on the floor. There's a lot of good teams. In Phoenix, by the way, I know that you follow them very closely. I actually think if they don't get Durant, let's just assume that they don't. that the window might be shutting on them. I agree. You know what? It depends on what they get for Aiton.

Let's just say, by the way, they get with the trade out there that looks, I look at, and I think, wow, they could be better, is if they get, oh, my goodness, the kid from the center of 610 from Atlanta. Yeah, Collins. And no, no, no, red velvet and. Oh, but the only reason I brought up Collins is there's like a rumor for, floating around right now that the wizards somehow are trying to pull off a deal for John Collins.

And I can see John Collins being dealt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you're- I can see him being dealt. Right. But you're talking about Capella? I'm talking about Capella. Yeah.

If Chris Paul and Devin Booker are playing with Capella, who doesn't need the ball to be effective and is a better defender than Aiton, and they get red velvet to shoot it, seriously, how do you guard that? How do you guard that? And if you trade Aiton for that, and you still have front-line players, goodness. That's a lot. I mean, Phoenix becomes a different team then.

They become probably even more potent offensively. But there's so many teams that Clippers, I don't make Kevin, look, we may talk about this in January and I'll be dead. wrong because Kauai Leonard has been that great in his career. Oh, my God. But I'm skeptical. I, you know, you talked about the leadership.

I mean, Kauai obviously, is not an extroverted leader, clearly, but his game leads. And I think, you know, even in the years, you know, in the bubble and then last summer before he got hurt, I mean, he had some epic games with, you know, in the Dallas, in the two Dallas series with those series on the line. I mean, the game he had in game six against Dallas last summer where he went for 45 and was just brilliant over the last quarter and a half when Paul George could not get it done. I mean, Paul George was the problem the last couple of years for them. But I give George some credit this year. Look, if he didn't get COVID, I think they would have been in the postseason and the play in. And I think Kauai would have been back.

But anyway, no, Kauai wouldn't be back. We've, we, seen enough of him now to know. He's going to be Uber cautious. He just did it. I'm not knocking him for him. Right. Okay. But I know he's clearly a different cat. Yeah.

Enough about them because everybody listening is probably like, all right, just the clip, we're not going to do Clippers talk or Western Conference predictions talk for much longer, but it is a loaded West next year. There is. There's so many teams. There's so many in the East.

Yeah. That, you know, just having one player or re-signing your guy doesn't change who you are in your fortune, which is crazy for this week these next few days coming up as we listen to all this crazy news. It is amazing, though, just one last point on the Wizards. Do you know that they have not been beyond the Eastern Conference semifinals since 1979? I mean, I just, you know, I was watching your network, and I was watching Legler. and Jefferson and Kendrick Perkins and Zach Lode, you know, during all the stuff yesterday as it was going on. And Richard Jefferson was talking about Bradley Beale. And he said, you know, it's a lot of money and I would never knock a guy for taking the money.

But, you know, it is weird in this day and age that a guy that, you know, has been sought after by other superstars hasn't gone for the ring somewhere. And it is strange. And Jefferson said, think about the wizards. Like they may, they may be, he didn't say this, I'm paraphrasing, but I know what he was trying to get at. They've been maybe the most irrelevant team in the NBA for ever. He's like, when's the last time they can, when's the last thing? He goes, he said, they've never been a contender. They have not been a contender since 1979. I mean, they really weren't a contender with, you know, Gill and Antoine, et cetera. No, you know, they were never good enough defensively. We thought they would peek into that territory, but they didn't. Right. So, it lost one game in Cleveland that prevented.

that from even from being a contender, not a champion. Everybody else. I agree with that. Everybody else in the East has contended or gotten to a finals. Right. That's right. All right, more with Mike Wilbonne joining us on the show. This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky.

Go to mybooky.orgie.com. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and they'll match your first deposit, dollar for dollar, all the way up to $1,000. $1, MyBooky's got all of the NFL prop bets before the season starts that you would want. MyBooky.com, my bookie.orgie.orgie. Again, my promo code, Kevin, D.C. If there's something already written in the promo code area, erase it, right? Kevin, D.C. And they'll double your first deposit all the way up to $1,000. All right. USC, UCLA to the Big Ten, your reaction? It's just about TV money. But you know what?

It is, it is a shocker. But ultimately, we shouldn't be surprised at anything that happens down in college sports. It's college sports is going to become irrelevant. Because in basketball, you're going to have more and more people who go to the G League. They stay one year. You don't know how good they are. By the way, they're more and more international players. So a Joker comes and you don't even know who he is.

You know, Dodgers comes. You don't know who he is. So Yonis comes. You don't know who he is. So the last three MVP, you don't even know who they are until they're in your league for like year four. In college sports, in college football, it's just going to be two leagues, the SEC and the Big Ten. But what does it matter? Like, what does it matter whose conference they're in?

All right. I'm a Big Ten guy, born and raised. I sit here now in Chicago, the seat of the Big Ten, a neighbor of the commissioner. and I'm sitting here going, I don't care about that. I don't, I don't, UCLA and USC don't resonate with me. It's sort of a HCCC,

as great as it is and it's the best football conference. It doesn't know how to make money like the Big Ten. They're not as smart as the Big Ten. The Big Ten Television Network is the entirety of that attraction. Yeah. It was the entirety of the attraction for Rutgers in Maryland. And so last night, the number, Kevin, I heard, I don't know what's being reported this morning, I haven't seen, I haven't studied this story yet, the way I will later in the day. But I'm told the numbers $100 million per team per year.

So that's why you take it. And the PAC 12 will become irrelevant. In football. Yeah, I mean, the ACC might become irrelevant. I mean, I had John Orand, I think you know John from Sports Business Journal on this morning. And he sees, you know, an SEC and Big Ten with 20, around 20 teams and a breakaway from the NCAA. And, you know, we started talking about the teams that will be added to the Big Ten after SC and UCLA, which will make, you know, 16 teams. And then you'll get, you know, another Pac-12 or two.

And then it's Notre Dame and maybe like a North Carolina and or a UVA from the ACC that would jump. You know, you said something that is pretty, you know, out there. College sports is going to become irrelevant. I mean, given the amount of money that these networks are paying for the college football packages, they better hope it doesn't become irrelevant. Well, okay, let me rephrase a little bit. Okay. The conference is going to become irrelevant.

I'm not sure they're relevant now. Yeah. I mean, you know, because they're not what we grew up with and not what we got used to. they're not what people became attracted to. And so people, Matthew's age, will, my son's age 14, they become attracted for an entirely different set of reasons. And I wonder how long it's sustainable.

We're the only place on earth that cares about college sports. People in Europe get an absolute laugh out of how we treat college sports. But so what? I was sitting with a guy on a flight. I was in Las Vegas doing something this week, and I'm flying back to Chicago. And I was sitting with a guy who was a very appreciative, sophisticated, no-it-all. I'm using no-it-all complimentary here.

And he just said, explain to me a Brit, explain to me the college situation and what is going on. And this is the day before the news about USC and UCLA. And this guy, he knows all. He knows it all, and he's trying to figure out why we are the way we are, because Europe obviously is not that way. Europe and Asia are not that way. And I just wonder, like, how long is this sustainable? That people are going to have the same interests in two conferences.

Maybe. Maybe they will. Maybe they'll just do it indefinitely. I have my doubt. I think you're right about the conference thing. College sports are uniquely American, and I think, that there's just way too much tradition in history in some of these football and even basketball schools for it to ever die, even if the conference shapes look much different.

You know, Penn State's not all of the sudden because they're in a big 10 with USC, UCLA, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, and Rutgers, they're not going to all of a sudden stop selling 110,000 seats to their games on Saturday. I mean, it's cultish up there, as it is in the SEC in so many of these different places. So, I don't know. I mean, the thing that always bothers me is I don't know if it was all necessary. I've always felt this. I don't know if we've ever talked about this. I always felt like if you go back 20 years and you get out of this, you know, bowl, you know, obsession,

and you say right then and there in 2002, 2003, we are going to create a college football playoff with 18, teams, and maybe it's grown to 12 or 16, the money would have been so massive that it may have prevented all of this. It could have, but then, I don't know, but greed knows no boundaries. And so, the irony is this, you know, Boston College is patient zero. And the ACC is where this really took flight. And so now, yes, the Big Ten is out there because of the competition with the SEC. but the ACC is where this took flight. Syracuse, Boston College.

Miami, Virginia Tech. Miami, they're the primary offenders, if you view it the way I do, that they've sort of That was the beginning of this. You're right. I went through this on the radio show this morning. In 2004, Miami, Virginia Tech, and then BC in 2005, and that was really the start of this incredible wave of conference reshuffling that, you know, obviously Oklahoma and Tech. Texas last year and now USC, UCLA to

yesterday and who knows what's coming next. It's just unthinkable. And when I first heard this yesterday and somebody said, this is impossible. I'm like, no, it's not impossible. It's about television money. And when you talk about any kind of money, but particularly television

I live, no, it's not impossible. And if people think that the lived discussion is going to go away or it's going to quiet down, they're insane. There are professional golfers out there who make a couple million dollars a year, who have on their plates in front of them the possibility of making 25 or 30 or 50 or 75 guaranteed million dollars.

It's nuts. Why is this going to stop? It's nuts. It isn't. Are you playing any goals? That's where we are with college sports in a different way, different way. Not quite that bottomless pit. But if you're sitting there looking at Big Ten money,

and what it does for your campus and your institution, UCLA and USC are rich schools by any definition, and they were swayed by this. Well, I talked a lot about this earlier, but you know, I hated when Maryland left the ACC. I understand. I still don't like it. I miss what it used to be.

Duke, Carolina, Virginia, NC State basketball, obviously for Maryland alums. I mean, we're a basketball first school. But in hindsight, whether the chancellor at the time, Wallace Lowe envisioned this or not, I don't think he did. I think they just weren't a big money crunch and they took the money from the Big Ten. But in hindsight, they looked like visionaries jumping to the Big Ten when they jumped to the Big Ten because they're sitting back watching the musical chairs without a worry in the world.

Now, I think a school like Maryland in the market that it's in would have been a desirable target for the Big Ten or the SEC, even though the football's not great. Although Loxley's got, I mean, you're probably not following it. They could be really good offensively this year. I mean, one of the better offensive teams in the Big Ten. Anyway, that is an aside. But Maryland is sitting back watching this, and there are going to be some schools that are left on the outside looking in at this SEC.

And that's what I mean. There are so many places where they're irrelevant. Because they're a part of this perceived the cool crowd. Right. I don't know what, you know, maybe I'm misreading it, you know, the forecast. Maybe I am. Well, I, wow, I just don't know what it's going to look like and seem like. How many places are going to be irrelevant?

How many bowl games can you have that make alums, people like me feel good enough about their institution to continue to just give money, money, money, money, money. I don't know. The single biggest event in college sports, the biggest product, the biggest revenue generator, is the NCAA tournament. And John Oran said this morning, and I didn't even think of this yesterday, he said, if we are headed towards an SEC and Big Ten with 20 to 24 teams each breaking apart from the NCAA, what will that mean to this coveted thing called March Madness? It'll kill the golden goose. It'll kill it. Now, something else could spring up in his place could.

I'm not convinced to that. You had a couple of big parties in the end of the end. So between the 20th of December and New Year's Day, you had one long, huge party in which a lot of people made a lot of money. Now, they're making more money, which is why they go into this new format, but you had the big party that is March. And I'm going to tell you, Kevin, I don't believe. that March Madden has been nearly as good the last few years as it used to be.

Yields more money. So how long does that go? How long is that sustainable? Maybe. Maybe it's just like professional sports salaries. Maybe it's like the NBA where you can pay, you know, a guy who should be your second best player, $51 million a year. Yeah.

Maybe it's so sustainable just because of the television dollars. Maybe that's the answer to my question, and nothing is going to suffer. maybe. You know the irony of all of it is that we are entering an era with NIL where more likely than not, players will stay longer in college and play than they have because of the money available to them to stay. Well, there'll certainly be players who can stay who are not good enough to be great pros. And that could change the landscape. That could make it make certain teams and certain programs more relevant. But I'm just looking at. looking at what we saw yesterday, how much room is there to celebrate and indulge anything beyond

college football and college basketball? How much room is there? Yeah. I'm wondering. I'm waiting. I'm sitting here waiting to see how this starts to play out with UCLA and USC. Unbelievable. What does a schedule look like? What is... I don't Like, I'm sitting here wondering, you know, what am I going to, as a season ticket holder, I'm a season ticket holder to three sports at Northwestern. Like, what am I going to attend? What's the third? Women's basketball.

Okay. Football, men's basketball, women's basketball. Okay. Yeah. I don't know, I don't know where it's all heading. I just, yesterday, out of all of the moves, U.S.C. and UCLA, moving into the Big Ten is the most jarring. First of all, it was stunning news to even. It is.

Yeah, it just doesn't seem, like there of others that haven't seemed right. I mean, West Virginia in the Big 12, Maryland and the Big 10 doesn't seem right. But USC and UCLA in the games in November when it's dark and it's cold here and you get to turn on the TV and see the beautiful green grass and just the beauty everywhere associated with those two programs playing Pac-12 games that, I don't know, all of a sudden you're going to get, Well, we get USC in Minnesota in the Twin Cities for a big one. Imagine what they feel like when they get off the plane in the Twin Cities on November 10. I don't know. As a big 10 guy, I don't know.

Weird. All right. It's going to take some getting used to. Thanks for doing this. Hope you're well. Kevin, happy to as always, man. My pleasure, I hope for people like us, who, you know, love sport in general,

that these enormous landscape-changing developments, like, you know, the NBA and free agency. And I just hope that we can see relevant events locally where we live. Yeah, because there aren't any promising big-time events on the horizon. No, they have to develop. Yeah, I mean. They have to become that way because a team is better. because you, Hachamura, because Hachamora and somebody else emerge and become, you know, maybe this kid, Johnny Davis, and they become a big deal.

I mean, Bradley Biel emerged. We didn't know he was going to be this player. Right. Nobody had Bradley Biel being this when he was in his, even his second year with the Wizards. But he made himself, he himself has maxed out. Kudos, huge standing ovation to Bradley Biel for making himself. this kind of professional basketball player. And you hope there's somebody else to go with him

so that there's the kinds of big events that you have in San Francisco and Milwaukee and Boston, that we can have those in Washington again. Because right now we had some with the capitals and the nationals, but it's been a couple of, and we're moving. We're moving far afield from that right now. It doesn't feel great.

Nobody's close. but, you know, the one sport, and you love it, and I like the playoffs, the one sport that is totally random in its results year to year, and you always have a chance is hockey. You know, so if you get into the postseason, you can always figure out a way to make a big run. But the NBA is the longest shot. Like that, if you don't have a top five player,

forget about winning a championship. Yeah, but at least getting one seems more. possible than just winning the lottery or finishing one, two, three. And so you hope that the team where you live so you can get to see it be part of that excitement that it happens while you're there and while you can enjoy it. So I don't know where this leaves the Wizards. I really don't. But they kept their star and they go on from there.

It leaves Maryland with home games in football against Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, USC and UCLA maybe one year. That should be, I don't even know what that means. It just seems like an exhibition schedule, but that would be fun. I'm sure if you're part of the college park crowd, you're part of whatever Maryland nation is and how that extends now, how that's re-identified and rebranded. Well, what does that mean? The only, I mean, I love Mike Loxley, and I'm rooting for Mike Loxley,

and I would love Maryland football to be really good. But for me, basketball being nationally relevant, being a legitimate Final Four contender again soon, is the number one priority for 95% of Maryland sports fans. Basketball will always be number one. Always. I guess it will be. I guess it will be.

And this may reposition that even position even higher. Well, they're playing UCLA this year anyway. Kevin Willard scheduled home and home with UCLA. They play UCLA in College Park in December. Wow. Wow. All right. Thanks for doing this. You're always very generous with your time.

Kevin, appreciate it much, man. Love it. Love the conversation. Much appreciate it. Mike Wilbonne, everybody. So much news yesterday, NBA-related. So much to talk about. And it's always good to catch up with him on all of these things. I want to let everybody know that Windonation right now has a new deal.

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Enjoy the holiday weekend. I'll be back on Tuesday with Tommy unless there's some big story between now and then.