The Kevin Sheehan Show - Wild Expectation Changes

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

Kevin and Thom today with plenty on the reaction to a team in the midst of a 3-game losing skid. The boys discussed the season's journey that started with no expectations, went to expecting wins, to now not knowing what to expect. Jayden, Kliff, and kicker talk on the show as well. The guys also talked Saquon Barkley as a potential record-setting MVP, Thanksgiving, and Thom made his Titans-Commanders prediction.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Window Nation. Give them a call at 86690 Nation or head to WindowNation.com. If you need new windows, it's going to turn colder.

So if you've been thinking about new windows for winter, call them now. 8669Nation, Window Nation.com. Tommy's here with me. This will be the only show that Tommy will do this week, although I am going to, Tommy, have a Thanksgiving Day show. And my guest will be Billy Kilmer, who will be on with me Thanksgiving Day. Now, we're going to record this in advance, but Thanksgiving Day, Tommy, is the 50-year anniversary of the Clint Long League game. Which really still... You are so spot-on everything, baby.

You're right on top of it. Well, I actually should thank my friend, Tom friend, longtime author, film producer, covered the team many years ago. Tom sent me a note to just say, don't forget 50-year anniversary of the Clint Longley game. I think I would have eventually gotten there because every year, you know, typically I'll have Scott on the show to tell the story about how Clint Longley nearly killed his grandfather on Thanksgiving Day, 1974.

But I didn't, but then it would have occurred to me that it was 50 years. But Tom, friend, thank you, friend, for reminding me. And I reached out to Billy Kilmer, so we're going to record a show remembering that game in 1974. Look, all of the books you've written on this franchise, did you write ever about the November 28th, 1974 Thanksgiving Day game? Like I said, I wrote them, I don't read them, I don't remember. But you ask others to read them. Yes. I wrote it.

Right, right. So, but do you remember writing anything about, you remember writing anything about, Yeah, I'm not sure I mentioned it. Okay. I'm sure I mentioned it. I figured it was a reference to it. It was a bad Thanksgiving with the Sheeans. I can remember that.

I can remember being distraught when Clint Longley came into the game and threw a 50-yard touchdown pass to Drew Pearson to beat Washington. You know, the interesting thing about that 74 season, that was the fourth season for George Allen, right? season, playoff, second season, Super Bowl lost, third season. They went to the postseason and lost in Minnesota. And they were having a really good season. And the irony about that game is that Dallas wasn't having a great season. That was the first Tom Landry team that it broke their playoff string. I forget how many years in a row they had been to the postseason, but they didn't

go to the postseason in 74, even though they won that game. Wow. You know, he seemed impressed. Yes. Speaking of Scott and in the story about his grandfather, I got a little issue with your boy. What? Well, apparently on X, as it's now known, he got into an argument with somebody about whether soda or I guess Coke specifically, is better at glass, cans, or plastic.

And he got an argument with a guy named Tom, Turner Tom, T-H-O-M. Uh-huh. Okay? This was your boy Van Pelt's response. Your name is Tom, T-O-M, and you have an H in it. You don't need to tell me anything. You know?

Yeah, right. You know, again, like I've explained, many times, it's not Tomas, it's Thomas. So why wouldn't it be Tom, T-H-O-M? That's a good point. It's T-H-O-M-A-S. Tom is short for Thomas, and I've never seen. Actually, I do think Tomas in certain... Is it Spanish? Is it Spanish? It is Spanish, right? Yes. So, but here in America, we spell Thomas, T-H-O-M-A-S. That's right. So, actually, actually, T-H-O-M is correct.

Yeah. Makes a long-standing mistake. And of all people, your boy, Van Pelt, sounds like a character from a Harry Potter book. Well, I think I'm going to try to do a segment with him tomorrow, so I will bring it up and get his reaction to being called a character from a Harry Potter book in terms of his name. Well, he's got no room to make fun of anyone's name. Right. Well, yeah. Good Dutchman, that's Scott Van Pelt.

Anyway, Billy Kilmer on Thanksgiving Day, we won't be doing a show recorded that day, but I'm going to record that with him probably tomorrow and run it on Thanksgiving Day. If you miss Cooley on the show yesterday, he broke down. He watched the game and broke down a lot of what he saw from Sundays. game against Dallas and didn't like some of what he saw from Jaden in terms of, you know, sort of, you know, pocket presence in particular. So there was some good stuff from Cooley on yesterday's show if you didn't catch it yet. So. Biller. Billy Kilmer is one of the gifts I've been given in this business. him and Sonny went to a Nationals game quite a few years ago when Dusty Baker was first managing the team.

And they were sitting in the president's club seats. And I managed to wiggle my way in and sit next to him and talk to them for a couple of innings while watching the game. And they wanted to know about the team. They wanted to know about Dusty and all that stuff. So I sat for a couple innings and watched baseball with them. That was a gift. that was definitely a gift you know you and i had some really nice opportunities you know over the years working at the station with sunny with sam um you know with coach thompson of course uh you know

doing the show after ours for so many um years but i still think that one of the best things we ever did was the lunch with a legend that we did with Sonny Jurgensen. Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And Sonny was much more present for us because he was affiliated with this team still, the broadcast network, the station by extension. Billy really has never been in a media role at all, right? Did Billy ever do games after he retired?

Maybe briefly? Maybe he did. God, man, that's the beginning of it. You know, those George Allen years, and I would say that that's the first loss that really was devastating. Of course they lost the Super Bowl, and that's devastating.

But in terms of one of those shocking, like, did that just happen? Like Sunday, by the way, That may have been the first one. All right. You were there Sunday. You haven't had a chance to weigh in. I've done it twice already.

Tell me what you thought. Well, first of all, did you read my column that I sent you? I have not read your column yet. I am in preparation. I know. I have 28 people coming over for Thanksgiving. 28. Yeah, but right now you have me to do you.

Did you send it to me? me? I sent it to you last night, and I sent you a text telling you I sent it to you. Okay. You want me to read it right now while you're talking about the game? I can do that. Well, I'll explain to you what the gist of it is about. Let's do it that way. Well, you can read it while I'm talking. Let's do it that way. Go ahead. Yeah. Okay. The gist of it is, the results of Sunday, while may have not been pretty and certainly wasn't, in a way, what's going on now with the team, is what everyone signed up for it, the beginning of the year.

You know? No one signed up for 7 and 2 and an NFC championship contender. Most people were saying this is going to be a slow, you know, recalibration, rebuild year. You're going to see, yo, you're going to see some points, some moments when they're going to shine, some moments when they're going to struggle, they're going to slow grow over the course of the season, and you'll see a building block towards something more permanent.

You know, we didn't expect to see a quarterback who was going to play the position like no rookie had ever played before. We expected a quarterback who showed promise and who struggled at times. So in a way, where they are now, is still ahead, but partly where we thought they might be. Not that good, but moments

moments of promise, moments of hope. That was the gist of my calm. I think that's pretty sensible. I mean, I don't even think most people thought we'd be here. We'd be much shorter than seven and five. I did predict 10 and 7. Let's not forget that. But I think most people thought six, seven wins.

Look, I mean, I remember how many times do we say before the season started? This season really, unless you want to go out and be crazy like I was and that wasn't total tongue in cheek. I just had a hunch and may not get there. Who knows at this point? There's no guarantee. But it was really about, you know, getting to the end of the season and feeling like they got it right on the quarterback. And we are 11 games into this season, 12 games into the season, 7 and 5. And, you know, there are still five games left to play. and I know that there is some hemming and hawing now. Like, let me, if Jaden had had the Philadelphia game in week four,

and then the, you know, Pittsburgh game in week seven, and then had the game he had Sunday, which was actually a pretty good game, I mean, he was outstanding as a runner, obviously, in week 10, I don't, I think that the overwhelming thought would be, you know, then you take all those other games and scatter them rather than having them in a row. Like there was a little bit more of an up and down nature to the 12 games. There isn't one person, and they'd have to have their head examined if they felt this way,

would say they got it wrong. In the moment now, because they've lost three games in a row, and in one of the games against Philadelphia, he didn't play well. And Bo Nix is, yes, he is closing in on Jaden for the offensive rookie of the year. I was looking at this earlier at my bookie. Offensive rookie of the year, current odds. Right now, Jaden is minus 140 and Bo Nix is plus 125. That's as close as it's been.

So it's getting tighter on that front. But there's a feeling among fans that it's getting tighter. Do you know how many times I've just heard in the last three days? Much of it is right before I start my show and I just look at social media briefly. Well, looks like Caleb Williams, Drake, May, Bo, Nix all might end up being better. Just stop, okay? We've got a long way to go on this quarterback thing. nobody of the other three, none of the other three have had games like he's had, not even close.

None of the other three have had stretches of games like he's had. Yeah. Like I said, he played the position like no rookie we've ever seen before. And you need to do it in past tense. We did not expect that. Yeah. Yeah, you don't need to pass tense because there's still five left. And so we, you know, Sunday was painful.

So I get the gist of your column. I think that's a very sensible way to look at it. I said something earlier today on radio because there were two interesting emails that I got from long-time listeners who really think Quinn effed up by putting Austin Cybert out there Sunday and thought he was compromised. I may get to that here on the show, but the net of it was I'm like, look, you know, Sunday's loss, was a bad loss. By the way, you expect some of those losses in a first season, new coaching staff, rookie quarterback, rosters turned over by nearly two-thirds, and we just haven't had any of them. You know, Pittsburgh was a good football game, winnable game, lost to a really good team.

Philly's just a flat-out better team, and you still had the lead in the fourth quarter. Sunday was a bad loss. Sunday really stung. Like Sunday Tommy was the first time in a long time, I think for me anyway, that it hurt a little bit. It stung a little bit. Left a bad taste in my mouth. It's been a while. And the reason it's been a while, we haven't been good enough to feel like, oh, that's such a bad loss.

I mean, just look at the circumstances. Washington was an 11-point favorite in the game. That hasn't happened in years since 2017. They were playing a bad team, short rest. Washington was on the mini-buy rest. It's been six or seven years since you could legitimately feel despondent, unless you were delusional, you know, and you thought the team was great with, you know,

with Sam Hal or with Taylor Heineke or with Alex Smith or, you know, Dwayne Haskins or whatever. If you were in that, you know, 2% of people that really thought these guys were the answer and the team was good and should be good, if you were like the rest of us, the significant majority of us, it's been probably since that 2016 season finale gut-wrenching loss to the Giants on New Year's Day that cost them a playoff, when the Giants had nothing to play for. That's the last time that I felt like sick after a loss.

No other team since then has been good enough to expect to win. Like, you know, just the hurt. That's the key. Yeah. The key is the expectations for the past eight or nine years were, well, they're going to find a way to screw it up. Right. and we thought this is a new page.

These are new people. You know, it's a new chapter. And obviously the way they were playing, you know, that the past is the past. So I think people were more optimistic than they had been in maybe a decade. Right. But what I'm saying, too, is, you know, nothing should have stung like Sunday. but the reason it's stung Sunday is because it is different. And even though they've lost three games in a row,

including having a bad loss to the Cowboys as part of that, it doesn't change that things are different. The owner is still gone. They still have what appears to be a young smart GM, a really solid head coach and leader, a very talented young quarterback. And, you know, teams that are functional, as this one, you know, we've said it all year long, they are now a functional, a normal functioning organization. And teams that are good and normal functioning, they have bad losses.

You know, these things happen. And when they happen, they feel bad. They leave a bad taste, all of that. but legitimately it's a bad taste now because they are decent and they do have a chance to continue to grow and be good. And this one hurts because, you know, the circumstances were set up for a one-sided beatdown and they didn't do it. They didn't do it. What else? You were there.

That's a big picture look at things as far as the season goes. What else did you think about the game? Well, there are just so many mistakes. Look, I don't, I mean, you say Jayden played well. His numbers would indicate that he didn't play poorly. I don't know how good of a decision maker he was Sunday. But they've got a big, look, I think most people are not coming down on the quarterback. I think they're coming down on Cliff Kingsbury.

I think people are pointing to him whether fair or not has the problem. problem. You know, they see an offense where they've got only one wide receiver that they think is worth throwing to, and they can't throw them the ball. You know, I know they throw the ball to Noah Brown, but it seems like they're very limited in the tools, at least the past couple games that Jayton Daniels has available for him to use. And I think people place the blame for that on the offensive coordinator. Well, there's no doubt that the Cliff Kingsbury narrative is a big part of the current conversation.

And I've got something on that in a moment. But look, there's, you know, Jaden was way down the list. I mean, the good news is at least we can put the conversation of is he or isn't he injured in the rear view. I mean, the guy was electric as a runner on Sunday. and that was, you know, that carry, I mentioned this, I think, on the podcast yesterday. He was the highest rated PFF player in the game, either side of the ball. Now, I didn't give him an A for the performance.

PFF had him as a high A grade. I gave him a B minus because I thought he was Cish as a passer. Thought he missed some things. Thought he, you know, made some big throws. And look, nobody's had now for a couple of stretches. games in a row, more drops. They're now top five in the league and drop passes in the last four or five games,

and he had several key balls dropped on Sunday. That's a problem right now for them. But, you know, I thought Jaden was way down the list of issues. I think what was just incredible about Sunday and still can't get over it, and you've watched a lot of these games over the years like I have, I've never, ever watched any game, let alone a Skins game in which there were that many impactful special teams plays. It was just amazing how many of them there were.

Yeah. And also, I mean, they lost on the off. They lost on the line on both sides of the ball. No doubt. You know? No doubt. I mean, they got beat up on both sides of the ball. And, you know, they're going into a game.

on Sunday hurting. Yes. You know, after 10 days of rest, they're hurting going into Sunday's game against the Titans team that all of a sudden beat the Texans last week. Yeah. Not only did they beat the Texans, they held Joe Mixon,

who rushed for over 100 yards against the Cowboys to 22 yards on 14 carries. Wow. Tennessee defensively is really good. Dallas wasn't. It was the strength of their. team of the two sides of the ball going in, but they were a bad football team going into that game. I wanted to mention the Cliff Kingsbury thing real quickly because I don't want to forget this

thought, because today on the show, radio show, I had Bill Barnwell from ESPN on. And the reason I had them on is I've mentioned for a while now that the Kingsbury discussion about starting fast, fading late on the teams that he's been a head coach on is a little bit dangerous just to assume that the offenses were the reason for that. And I've gone back a couple of times and said, some of those Texas Tech teams fell apart because of their defense. Some of the Cardinals' teams fell apart because of their defense and injuries, key injuries. Well, Barnwell put out a story yesterday, and once I read it, I called him and he was on with me, and you can listen to it at the team 980.com or by downloading the Odyssey app. He's very good in these kinds of things. He

went and did the homework on all of this. And the net of it is Cliff Kingsbury's been a head coach 10 different seasons, six at Texas Tech, four in the NFL with the Cardinals. And it is 100% true that his second half record has been a major problem versus the first half record. But it's also very interesting when you really delve into the details. of the reasons for the swoon or the fade late in the season. Let me just put this out there. We care about his offensive prowess. We don't care about the teams overall that he coached as a head coach.

He's an offensive coordinator. We care about the offense. And I think a lot of people have equated the late season failures to him being an offense, having an offense that got figured out. Well, Barnwell went deep. First of all, there were a couple of things that he mentioned that I didn't even give thought to. You know, at Texas Tech, at any major college, when you start the season, you play a couple of cupcakes, and you generate a lot of offense. Like, they hung 69 on Sam Houston, 61 on Stephen F. Austin, 69 on U-TEP, you know, building up

massive offensive numbers in the first halves of seasons. And then the second half of seasons were dominated with big 12 games. And then he went into, in the second half of seasons in his years at Texas Tech, their defense gave up 41.9 points per game versus the first half of the season giving up 30 points per game. Like if you just go through Texas Tech seasons, you can see they were giving up 70. They gave up 82 in a game to TCU, 64 here, 58 there. But the offensive numbers, they were still scoring in the 30s and 40s. Like you could tell that.

And then he went into the NFL stuff. Well, actually, in his first year in Arizona, the numbers went up in the second half of the season offensively, even though their record failed. And then you had a season in which Kyler Murray played just one game after tearing his ACL in the second half of the season. Then in another season, they lost DeAndre Hopkins to injuries and didn't have him in the second half of the season. And Arizona's defenses kind of fell apart. So the Kingsbury narrative, just understand, it's based on him being a head coach and his team's records being worse in the second half of the season than in the first half of the season. But the reasons for the team's records being worse had to do with a lot of things that weren't

specifically offensive related. And so take it for what it's worth, but that's just what it was. It wasn't his offense is falling apart. That is good stuff. But it doesn't see. speak to, well, I mean, you could argue, and you'd have to need homework for this, too, really delve deep. I don't know if you could. His ability to adjust, you know, I mean, I think that's what we're kind of talking about here, you know. I mean, his, I mean, a second half collapse or, you know, failure, no matter what the circumstances, if it's a pattern, it tends to show an ability not to attack.

Yeah, but he was an offensive head coach, and the defenses failed them as much as anything else did. And the quarterback, Kyler Murray, not being there for a season, accounts for a big dip in offense. Your number one offensive weapon not being there in the second half of the season accounts for that. Look, I'm not saying that it can't be true, too, that his offense is moving forward. forward end up falling apart in the second half of the season because they're more predictable, because Terry lines up on the same side of the field. I'm just saying that those that want to hang their hat on, Kingsbury's got this reputation of his offenses fading.

It's not true. His teams faded, but they were often fading because of injuries and defense more than offense. And we care about offense. You know how things snowball. people flash on to a narrative. Of course. That's why I can appreciate... Yeah, I can appreciate the work Barnwell did.

By the way, he brought up something on radio today that also made so much sense. He's like, look at it this way. He's like, if they had Kingsbury's offenses figured out, then why at the beginning of the next season, after they figured out his offense at the end of the season before, why didn't they just employ whatever they did in the second half of the season to slow down the offenses when they got to the beginning of the next season. So there is an element to that that just doesn't make sense anyway. Like if it was so predictable, if it was so easy to figure out, well, once they did it the first time, then he shouldn't have had great starts to seasons the following years. But a lot of that

has to do with the opponents in college and, you know, a lot of other things. But anyway, it was a good listen, Barnwell was excellent. But look, the fact that we're having conversations, to your point, the fact that we're having conversations about a team that's lost three in a row to

fall now into, you know, a precarious playoff position, the fact that we're having conversations about a team that's lost three in a row and we're wondering why the best offense in the

NFL has now become very ordinary. I mean, these aren't conversations that we've had in a long time. No. No. That's true. You know, I mean, I understand the frustration because, like, people got pumped up like you and I did about the possibilities, you know? Yes, we did. I mean, we were talking about New Orleans in February. Yeah, we were.

I mean, we didn't necessarily believe it, but we certainly thought there was a chance to get, you know, to win a playoff game or two. And these NFL seasons, they change so dramatically, so quickly. For all we know, they pummel Tennessee, they come off the by week, they beat the snot out of the Saints, and the Eagles lose to the Ravens or the Steelers, and we're sitting there talking about a big game like we thought we were going to have against Philadelphia on December 22nd. Let's see. I mean, first year coaching staff, first year system, two-thirds of the players are new, rookie quarterback. By the way, still, you know, and Ben points this out every time he's on. And he's not wrong, and it's not like it's a big reveal, but it's just a reminder.

We knew this roster wasn't ready for Major League primetime contention. They don't have a wide receiver too. they had an offensive line that, you know, is far different this year and has performed well. By the way, to your point, it was my number one reason for the loss. They got beat in the trenches Sunday, period. Both sides of the ball, but especially on offense. I thought it was one of the, for the interior of the offensive line, one of the worst days of the year for them. And what was I saying?

Wide receiver two, offensive line, corner, which they actually went out and acquired. and he's got years left on the deal. Let's hope he plays at some point. You know, I'm going to throw something out there that's going to be, I think, a first for the year. They may need a running back one because as good as I think Brian Robinson, Jr. can be. He's not elite, and we've seen what elite can do in the form of Saquan Barkley, in the form of Derek Henry, Big Night Last Night, et cetera. Christian McCaffrey, we know. He's not that, but we've felt all along.

He's a good back. But look, he's not available enough. And they may be looking at that in the offseason. They may be looking at interior defensive linemen in the off season. They drafted one. Thank God they did. Go best player available in Johnny Newton. They may be looking for somebody to replace my guy, 94.

So we knew the roster. wasn't great either. I hate to do this because when you're in the midst of it, it's like, no, you deal with the reality of today, but it is true. Every single person listening to this podcast would have taken 12 games into the season, a 7 and 5 record in playoff position right now with the leading candidate, odds-on favorite, for the offensive rookie of the year at quarterback. I agree.

Like I said, seven wins, that was maybe, I thought, you know, I picked them to, I think I picked them to win six games. Maybe seven. What was the adjustment? That was the neighborhood I thought they'd be. Your adjustment was to 11, right? And I had them at 12. Yeah. Yes.

Well, Tom, with an age. I have a specific question. What? Again, you know, I try to take the philosophy is that there's a lot of things. that go on and practice that we don't know anything about that coaches make their decisions based on. So in a way, it's foolish for us to really question some stuff because we don't know what happened in practice during a week

to play this guy or to play that guy. Okay. But what is... What are they doing with Luke McCaffrey? I think he had three catches in the last six games. Yeah. Is he that useless? No, he's out there. I'm pulling up the snap count because he's certainly out there a lot. And, you know, there was a point in the season just a few weeks ago.

I'm like, because I was watching the all 22 of one of the games, I'm forgetting which game it was. I'm like, that dude's open. He's always open. Now, he's not getting the toughest matchup. You know, Terry's drawing that, obviously. Right. Let me just see what his snap count was because he's, you know, his snap count, he's in 30-something plus percent, 40 percent of the snaps typically. So on Sunday, so on Sunday 18 snaps, 26 percent of the snaps. So he wasn't out there as much as he's been. Right.

Yeah. I guess I just expected more, you know? Yeah. Especially in situations where you need to move the chains, where, you know, sort of like the quarterback's comfort receiver, I thought that would be Luke McCaffrey. Right. I'll tell you what's interesting, and I don't think I mentioned it this week.

We've mentioned in the past, but his comfort receiver is Noah Brown. I mean, Noah Brown is the guy that for whatever reason he looks to. And to be fair, there have been games where I think Noah Brown's actually got more separation than Terry. But 10 targets on Sunday, number one target. He's got too many drops, though, recently. His targets here, 10 on Sunday, 4 against Philly, 7 against Pittsburgh. I think that led the game. he's been the number one targeted receiver three or four times this year.

And, you know, he joined the team late in training camp. I like Noah Brown. He's a big target. He's too much of a chest catcher. That's been part of the problem on some of these drops. I mean, the throw, the slant the other day should have moved the chains. That was right in his hands. Hit his chest.

The one on the sideline that was a really good throw. It was well defended, but that's a catch. And that's a big chunk play, moved the chains as well on a third and seven. You know, they had to call one of them back on a catch for that Brandon Coleman illegal formation. It is interesting that Noah Brown has been a guy that he really does look for. And I think Ertz almost second. Look, to your Terry McLaren comment, Cooley said at the very end of the show yesterday, he just said, one other thing.

He's like, I'm sorry, but if I'm the offensive coordinator, Terry McCluren better have double digits in targets at the end of the game, period. And he goes, I know that it's easier said than done when you don't have a true number two and they're rolling coverages and they're bracketing, but you've got to get him touches early in the game. I was thinking about it. One of the things that the Cowboys do is they use C.D. Lamb in the backfield a lot. We have not seen any of that. Minnesota does that with Justin Jefferson a bunch too.

It's really hard to cover with a corner when you're lining up a receiver in the backfield and you don't know what's happening. Not to mention they give the ball to CD Lamb. I wouldn't mind seeing – they pitched one to Diami Brown the other day on a reverse. He had 14 yards. But, yeah, I don't know the specific ways that they should dial that up. Cooley had a couple of ideas. But like he said, he's like, look, I'm not in those meeting rooms.

I'm not privy to what their offensive scheme is. You know, I tend to operate under the premise that coaches do not make decisions to hurt themselves. Right. You know? Yeah. And I think we should operate under the premise that Cliff Kingsbury understands that Terry's his best receiver, too. Like, I don't think. All that said, I think coaches are capable of making idiot decisions, too.

Yeah. Well, maybe some of it's on the quarterback. You know, maybe they have dialed up a lot. more than we know of and it's on the quarterback. I thought Sunday that they were most effective until that final drive, the drive that made it 20 to 17, not the 86-yard touchdown pass. I thought they were much more effective, quick game. And I think Jaden gets into a rhythm much faster that way too.

But anyway, it was a crazy, I mean, the 86-yard touchdown pass, Tommy. That was going away from you guys, away from the booth. But, I mean, that was insane. I mean, it was number two. What did you think about going for two or not going for two? You haven't weighed in on that. Okay. This has become the new, like the OJ jury of NFL football, you know?

I mean, and it's usually you can divide it into the geeks and the not geek. Right. You know, because two points, go off. the two-point conversion is the nirvana for the geeks. They think, I mean, there's no higher calling than going for a two-point conversion. In that case, I'm going for the tie. I mean, I think my team is better than the team they're playing. So I'm willing to start the game all over again in overtime and go down and win it.

I had no problem with his decision. Now, in the moment, and I've said this, and I'm sure you haven't heard it, so I'll tell you, In the moment, I just, I'm like, we got number five. He is, if he wasn't 100% before, he's 100% today. So we just scored on a two-point conversion. If they've got another one involving him, let's do this, especially given that it was truly going for the win with 21 seconds left versus going for the lead. But I didn't have a problem with them kicking at all.

Anybody that thinks that that's not a very debatable decision in their pros, and cons each side is just, as you discussed, is just a two-point analytics nerd, you know, who would never think about spelling their name with an H if they're named Thomas. Shortening it up. Would never do that. Yeah, I mean, so real quickly, actually, I'll save this for the next segment. There were some interesting things related to the kicker decision on Sunday that I think needs maybe a little bit more conversation. We'll do that. Also, can Sequin Barclay be the MVP? I'll give you

away, Tommy, that there's no way he wouldn't be. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, no man wants to lose his hair, but for men, it's actually very common. And now with Hymns, the solution is simple. Try Hymns hair loss solutions. You'll be joining hundreds of thousands who got their flowback. Hymns provides you with convenient and access to a range of hair loss treatments that work all from the comfort of your couch. Hems makes treating hair loss simple with doctor-trusted options and clinically proven ingredients. You can choose from personalized chewable, oral, spray, and serum treatments to find out what works best for you.

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That's a free inspection and up to 30% off at L-E-A-Filter.com slash Kevin. See representative for warranty details. This segment of the show is brought to you by MyBooky. My Booky's got plenty of promos for this Thanksgiving week of football. It starts with My Booky's telegram. prize pool contest, which has already kicked off, but you can still get involved. The pool started at $15,000. It grows by $5,000 for every thousand new subscribers.

All you have to do is join MyBooky at mybooky.orgie.orgie. And hit the telegram channel by December 1st to lock in your share. How about this? Thanksgiving night, Miami, and Green Bay. That's the best game on Thanksgiving. Day. My bookies boosting the odds on Devon A. Chan to score the first touchdown in that game. If he scores first, you cash in big. If he doesn't, my bookie's going to give you a full refund on that wager. That's a no-lose bet promo. Take advantage of it. Not to mention when you use my promo code, Kevin D.C., my bookie will double your deposit. They're going to give you a 100%

cash bonus on your initial deposit. I mentioned the odds have tightened on the offensive rookie of the year. Well, remember Tommy a few weeks ago when Dan Quinn was the favorite to win the coach of the year? Three losses will damage those odds. Right now, Mike Tomlin is the favorite to win coach of the year at my bookie. Dan Campbell is second. Jim Harbaugh, well, Jim Harbaugh, actually, this must have been from yesterday. They haven't updated it because I would assume with the Chargers losing last night

that his odds aren't as great. But he was at plus 410. Kevin O'Connell plus 470. Jonathan Gannon at plus 520, the Cardinals coach, and then Dan Quinn, followed by Sean Peyton. I actually thought Sean Peyton would have climbed way up in the odds. Still time for that to turn around. MyBooky.ag, use my promo code, Kevin D.C. Skins right now, five and a half point underdogs Sunday. I'm sorry, five and a half point favorites. Favorites. See, I'm so used to saying underdogs after all these years.

They are a five and a half point favorite against a Tennessee team coming off that win in Houston against the Texans. So let me just read a couple of quick emails that I got. This came from Paul. Paul wrote, Sunday was on Dan Quinn. kickers should have never been out there. They went with a hurt kicker over a healthy kicker. Major F-up. From Denny, Kevin, the head coach took an important game and made his kickers psyche more important than winning the game. Follow this. Cybert was feeling threatened by his replacement, Zane G. As in Gonzalez. He didn't go for the fourth and two in the first half when they've

gone for that all year long and instead thought Cybert could use a 50-yard field goal for confidence. Then the 51-yard field goal at the end of the game on second down? What? Cybert wasn't healthy enough to be out there and the kickoffs were proof. You asked it. Why would you kick the ball to turpin in that situation? Quinn's answer was basically that he wasn't healthy enough to kick it into the end zone for a touchback. Big mistake to have had him out there instead of Zane G, as in Gonzalez.

To me, the second-guessing opportunities that we had, which there were plenty of them, from the fans' couch from Sunday's game, that was the one that, to me, was not really a debate. You can't kick to Turpin in that situation. You shouldn't have kicked to him at all. He was, and I said this on Friday and my keys to the game, Turpin is the guy that could really make you pay in this game if you give him opportunities, don't. He already had a 38-yard return, had a 30-yard return.

The 11-yard return was really a mistake by him. He should have let it go out of bounds, or he should have caught it with one foot out of bounds. They would have had it at the 40. And we got the answer kind of from Dan Quinn, who essentially said it was harder than, you know, it wasn't easy as you think it would have been, which to me implies injury,

that the hip injury was, look, they have loved the kicking into the landing zone all season long. They have the fewest touchbacks of any team in the league, and they have been outstanding in kickoff coverage and in punt coverage. But they gave up a hefty return to Jalen Warren in the Pittsburgh game. Shipley had a decent return for four. Philly on Thursday night. But Turpin's a completely different animal.

You don't kick to him, especially in that situation. And it looks like they didn't have an option to kick it out of the end zone, which... Well, let me ask you that. Yeah. Go ahead. No, which is the reason we have these new kickoff rules to begin with is because 75%, 76% of the kicks last year were touchbacks. And so they changed the kickoff rule to get more returns.

And we still see a lot more touchbacks than returns. But Washington's chosen to cover kicks. And on Sunday, when they needed to make the decision not to cover a kick, even though the kick was very good, it was well done. It bounced. It went through his legs. But you still, I don't, I think that's the easy one from Sunday. All the others are debatable.

You got to have a guy that can kick it out of the end zone. You know, we've seen a coach right in front. of our eyes, make an idiotic decision about the health of a kicker that cost him a game. Yeah, the Giants. Brian Daibble. Yeah, the Giants in Week 2, right. Yeah. We've seen it.

You know, so they're capable of doing this. You know, let's think out of the box for a second. If Dan Quinn felt their best field goal kicker going into Sunday was Siebered, but he was compromised. kickoffs, why not activate two kickers? Well, I don't think you activate two kickers in that situation because you had an option for the field goal kicking because the guy hadn't missed.

Zane Gonzalez hadn't missed. But maybe they felt their best chance for field goal kick. My question, my statement was, if he felt that Sieber was their best field goal kicking option. Right. but was compromised for kickoffs, then you have the other guy due to kickoff. Yeah, I mean. That's valuable.

Yeah, it's a valuable spot, though, being taken up by a kicker, you know? I know that, but you're not taking it up for the season. You're taking it up for one game against the guy, like you said, you don't want to kick to. I think my answer to that, it's not an unreasonable question, because field goals tend to be more important, you know, than kickoffs. and they are a good kickoff coverage team and have been all season long. This was a different kickoff returner in this game. So my answer would have been if he's not healthy enough in the event that we need to employ a different kickoff strategy because Turpin returned the opening kickoff for a touchdown and then broke another one for 50 yards.

So we decided we're not going to kick to this dude anymore, then I would have had Gonzalez up. because Gonzalez had been solid. He had not missed a kick. He had been good on kickoffs. The other thing, I think Gonzalez's leg may have been a little bit bigger too. But I want to make sure that I just respond to one thing. I don't think he was bringing Cybert up because Cybert felt threatened. The boost is confident.

Yeah, no. I don't think that was it. And I understood why they kicked the 51-yard or when they did, even though I thought it was a big risk. in terms of the one that made it 27 to 20. But yeah, I mean, that was the one where somebody said that Belichick was on with What's His Face. You know, why am I blanking? The former punter that has the show.

Pat McAfee. You can see how much I watched that show. That Belichick, they were talking about the game, and Belichick just said, you cannot kick the ball to Turpin. Do not kick the ball. to that guy ever. And so if that was the maybe that wasn't the mindset going into the game

because they didn't think that kicking was going to be a big factor in a game in which they were playing one of the worst teams in the NFL. I don't think that was it either. I don't know what the reason was, but he kind of admitted, right? Didn't he, that Cybert wasn't healthy enough to kick the ball deep enough

for a potential touchback? I think he did. sometimes it's hard to get a handle if you've been paying attention as to who's healthy and who's not. Yeah. Yeah. True. All right. By the way, I'm trying to think, does Tennessee have a big time returner?

They've got Ridley. They've got Pollard as big. I'm trying to think if they've got a big returner. I don't know who their returner is. Is it? I don't know who it is. Here it is. I'm going to say right here.

He's averaging 26.6 yards per return. He's a rookie. I'm going to say it right here. You need to see a lot more Luke McCaffrey on Sunday. Okay. Catching the ball. Yeah, I'd like to. I think I'd like to see more him.

I'd like to see just, I'd like to see the punt issue, which is now an issue the other way, go back to the way it was. I like when they move the football. And again, a lot of that was on third down drop passes. I mean, you had three of them on third down that could have moved the sticks. Yeah. And so it's everybody, you know, it's Kingsbury, it's Jaden, it's, look, it hurt them on Sunday that they didn't have Brian Robinson, Jr., basically. They couldn't run the, they got dominated up front, too.

They couldn't run the football. But, all right, I mentioned, so the odds at. my bookie for the NFL MVP. After what Sequin Barclay did on Sunday night football, 255 yards for those of you, because we really haven't talked that much about other NFL stuff. But the game by Barclay was a Philadelphia single game rushing record, 255 yards.

He is on pace right now to be at 2151 at the end of the season, which would break. Eric Dickerson's record by 46 yards. A long-held record, 1984, Eric Dickerson rushed for 2,105 years. So we're talking about a 40 record that has stood for 40 years. Right now, he is on pace to be the all-time single-season rushing leader. Remember, Dickerson did it in 16 games. Barclay will have 17.

But when Dickerson broke O.J. Simpson's record, Tommy, as you know, Simpson did it in 14. games. Right now at mybooky.ag promo code Kevin D.C. Josh Allen is the favorite at plus 121. Lamar Jackson's at plus 232 and Sequin Barclay is third at plus 500. He's ahead of golf. So why isn't Derek Henry on this list? Derek Henry is only 67 yards behind Barclay in rushing this year. Yes, because Barclay's impact, I think, is even greater. than Henry's impact. I don't know. You know what?

I don't know either. Here's the thing about Philly. Barclay's obviously been a phenomenal, you know, addition. But they're being led as much by their defense right now as they are their offense. Their defense is freaking awesome. And they have better offensive weapons. They do. Than Baltimore does.

Well, but not as good of a quarterback. No. But A.J. Brown and Duvante Smith. Right. Here's what I... By the way, Derek Henry's played one more game, Tommy. That's the reason.

His average yards per game is 110. Barclays is 126.5. So... There you go. Yeah. What I was going to basically say, and I want to know if you agree with this, if Seguan Barclay passes Eric Dickerson and sets the record for rushing yards in a season, it's a slam dunk that he wins the MVP.

I don't care what Josh Allen does. I don't care what Jared Goff does. I don't care about Patrick Mahomes or Lamar Jackson at that point. If he breaks Eric Dickerson's 40-year record in an era of Patrick. passing the football, he wins the MVP. Yeah, you mentioned in an era of passing the football. I mean, you know, running backs went out of style, it seemed like. You know, we've read stories about how the position has been diminished in this era.

And to break it, like, it's like a pitcher winning 32 games or something like that, you know? breaking the Denny McLean mark. I agree with you. It's a slam dunk for me too. Now, Philly is a run-first team, as they have been, you know, included with their quarterback in that. But yeah, I mean, I just, look, Josh Allen's having a hell of a season. And he, if I had a vote in the MVP race, today I would vote for Josh Allen.

I think he's been that good this year. because what has he done this year that he hasn't done before? He doesn't throw picks. He's had an incredible season where he's not throwing the ball to the other team. Lamar Jackson today would be my second choice. The dude is just having his best passing season of his career. And then it would probably be Barclay third. But if he ends up setting the record,

I'd jump Barkley ahead of everybody and just say, no, he's, he just passed the great Eric Dickerson. You know, Dickerson's teams were all about Dickerson. That's true. Phillies teams are about a lot more than just Saquan Barclay or the Philly team this year. Those John Robinson teams just pounded Eric Dickerson, you know, 25, 30 times a game. It's not what Barclay's doing, although he did have 26 carries the other night. All right. You've got a prediction because we've got to get your prediction for Sunday's game.

We can talk a little Thanksgiving and anything else you want to talk about. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Euro step around that hot take and make a play today with Robin Hood. With a 3% boost on your annual IRA contributions with Robin Hood Gold, your money starts working for you. That's an easy assist without the flagrant fouls. Official brokerage in Jersey patch partner of the Washington Wizards. Investing involves risk.

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to the things that we have in this life, the people that we have, the people we treasure, the things we treasure, and I give thanks to Shelley's back room. You know, I love a bar that I can call my own, you know. I love that kind of that thing. You know, I had it in the Poconos growing up in Rudy's. You know, I never really had it in Columbia when we lived in Columbia. there was a bar called Lucky Ned Peppers on the All View golf course, but it was only there a year, and then it closed down. So Shelley's has become, even though it's in D.C. a long way from where I live, that's my neighborhood bar.

That's where I go like I was there Thursday night and saw a lot of my friends. You know, I always see people I know there at Shelly's. And it can be your neighborhood. You can live out in Leesburg, okay? And Shelly's can be your neighborhood bar, just like I live in Frederick, and it's become mine. You might not be able to go there every day, but when you go there, it'll feel like home. It'll feel like your place. Okay.

You can give thanks for that like I do. You find out more at shelley's backroom.com. Neighborhood bars, you know, there hasn't been, there was. was a place in Bethesda when, you know, I was in my 20s, my friend Carl McCarty and Gary Williams was an owner of T-Bones on Wisconsin Avenue in Bethesda. There was like an eight, nine, 10-year stretch where that was a true neighborhood locals bar, and it was great. I know that in Bethesda, Cattie's, Tommy Joe's, you know, but that crowds got. and younger. I'm in D.C. now, so I'm not in Bethesda as much as I used to be. I mean, when I was

much younger, third edition in Georgetown, I worked there, but that was not really a neighborhood bars as much as it was, you know, a young person's destination. You know, Shelley's is unique in this town. I know we've had this conversation before and people then basically sent in a bunch of different bars in various parts of the DMV that were considered neighborhood bars. So I'll take that back. But like where I live, there really isn't a neighborhood bar. I wish there were one. I love when you have a neighborhood bar where you walk in and you're guaranteed to kind of see people that you know.

And you know the bartenders. And they know what you drink before you even sit down. Right. All right. We'll get to Tommy's. prediction in a moment. What are your plans for Thanksgiving because you won't be on on Thursday with me? You going to Philly? Right. Going to Westchester, actually, right outside of Philly. My sister-in-law hosts Thanksgiving every year. She usually has between 25 and 30 people,

and these will be the only, maybe the only 25, 30 people in America that will not be watching any football. Yeah, right. In one gathering at all. Yeah. None. Couldn't care less. Right. And I'll be among them.

You know? What can I say? Well, this year... This is the life I've chosen. Well, I mean, last year and in other years, you had, they had to make accommodations for you because the skins were playing on Thanksgiving. They played a lot... One year. One year they didn't make accommodations for me,

and I had to go downtown to a real-time bar in Westchester and watch the game. I think it was the way Col McCoy was playing on Thanksgiving. Yeah. Oh, boy. Well, that must have been lonely. Well, it was. I was very depressed.

That would have been so depressing. That's true. You know what? You didn't need to watch the game. You could have just recorded it. it and watched it afterwards. Well, I felt like I needed to watch the game because my boy was playing. Yeah, that's true.

And you were going to write about it. Look, this year, you know, I like it when they don't play on Thanksgiving. So much more. And, you know, you have, you do get to see the Lions at 1230. They're playing Caleb Williams and the Bears. And Caleb has had two really good games in a row, and they've barely lost twice in a row to Green Bay and to Minnesota. And then, honestly, I mean, Giants, Cowboys,

it's one of the worst Dallas Thanksgiving Day games I can ever remember. Two horrible teams. The Cowboys have been bad before, but usually they're playing a good team. I mean, this one, who's going to watch this? Well, the truth is, a lot of people will watch it because it's the Cowboys and people will bet on it. The Thanksgiving Night Game is,

a good one now. The dolphins are rolling. They play at Lambo against the Packers. So that'll be a good one. I wonder if there's any weather in Green Bay on Thanksgiving night. Because that snow game last week between Cleveland and Pittsburgh was incredible Thursday night. Green Bay, Thanksgiving night. Yeah, just cold. 20s, but clear skies. All right, time for you. your, oh, what I was going to say is, you know that we host Thanksgiving every year, and we've been doing this for a long time. I don't know. Long, long, long time. And we've had big crowds. We've had moderate-sized crowds, never a really small crowd. The smallest would be like 15, 16. This year, 28. It's not the biggest ever, but in this house that we moved into three years ago,

it's a lot. And I'm looking forward to it because no football responsibilities. I don't have to watch the game. And I was able to convince my wife, Tommy, to not cook for 28 people and get it catered. Big win. Yeah. Huge win.

Doesn't mean that the work isn't there, you know, getting tables and getting set up. And, you know, I went Sunday morning early. Went to Wegmans. early Sunday morning and, you know, loaded up on all of the alcohol that we would need for the bar. But to be able to just, you know, she has always hated buffets and catered events. She wanted to cook. She wanted to do the whole thing.

Have it be sit down. Nope, catered buffet. Big win for all of us, I think. Not that the food that she prepared and others prepared wasn't great. But anyway. What time should I come over? We will, people I think are coming over probably 3.34, something like that, 430. So come on over.

I can get back by. You should be able to get back by then. Stop by for dessert if you want. Please. I'm a big dessert guy, yeah. I will. I'm just saying stop by for if you're on your way back and it's late, we'll still be there. I guarantee you we'll be there until a pretty late hour.

until I start flicking the lights on and off as a hint that it's time to leave my home. All right. What do you got? Tennessee, Washington Sunday. Well, I don't think these guys are going to go in a tank for straight games. I've got Washington winning, not necessarily pretty, but eking out a 23 to 20 win on poor Austin-Seberts' game-winning field goal with 10 seconds left in the game.

that would be nice for him wouldn't it it would be really nerve-wracking if it comes down to an Austin Cybert field goal at the end but um look he was 25 of 27 before Sunday who knows maybe he won't be active Sunday we'll see uh all right um happy Thanksgiving to you you know how thankful I am uh to have you as a part of my life and a part of this show so happy Thanksgiving to you and your family. Right back at you, boss.

All right, back tomorrow.