The Kevin Sheehan Show - Will '26 Be Terry's Final DC Year?

Episode Date: March 5, 2026

Kevin opened the show with a few emails before getting to something NBC's Matthew Berry wrote about Terry McLaurin's upcoming season perhaps being his last in Washington. Steve Czaban joined Kevin to discuss atomic bomb drills from the 70s, the Tush-Push, and to share some ideas for Washington's free agency and draft days ahead. Josh Robbins/The Athletic jumped on to discuss why the Wizards are debuting Trae Young tomorrow night against the Jazz and more.   For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match For all your garden needs: fastgrowingtrees.com/sheehan To ship iconic foods from across the country, use: https://www.goldbelly.com/ For everyday daily wear, use: http://quince.com/Sheehan Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Two guests on the show with me today. Steve Zabin next segment. And then following Zabe, Josh Robbins from the athletic, he covers the Wizards.

And I want to find out why the Wizards have decided to start playing Trey Young. I thought he wasn't going to play at all this year. He is set to make his debut tomorrow night. at home against Utah. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, Window Nation, 86690 Nation, or WindowNation.com if you need new windows. This is from Lisa to open up the show,

and Lisa's not happy with me. Lisa writes, Kevin, don't take this the wrong way, but I can't believe the things you know, and then sometimes I can't believe the things you don't know. I'm happy that you discovered Alyssa Loo. during the Olympics, but how does someone whose job is in sports not know who Alyssa was before last week? She was the reigning world champion and twice winner of the U.S. championships, including being the youngest winner ever at age 13. She was also the gold medal favorite

heading into the Olympics. I'm not sure I believe you that you didn't know her. It seemed to me like you just wanted us to think that you were too cool for school when it came to women's figure skating. I love everything about your show, but this was not a good look.

Thank you, Lisa for that. Lisa, I swear to you, I swear on my three sons, I had never heard her name before her final skate at the Olympics. Never heard her

name. The only reason I watched that final, it was really by chance. I was flipping channels and the Olympic coverage on NBC was running a profile on her. I left it there. I watched it. I found her story to be very interesting and that preceded her final skate, which I watched and like the rest of the world, was blown away impressed. I swear to God. I swear to God, I had never heard her name before. Didn't know anything about her. And look, I had talked about not really paying attention to the Olympics. I was not following the Winter Olympics until really that last part of the second week.

The Michaela Schifrin story and her interviews following her slalom win got me sort of into it a little bit. But, you know, women's figure skating, Lisa, is not really, you know, a needle move. for people like me, no offense. It's not like everybody in sports broadcasting talks about covers, pays attention to every sport. I think you know that. I mean, by your logic, I guess I should be embarrassed for not knowing who the U.S. badminton champion is or, you know, even slightly more relevant than that, who the MLS reigning champion is. I have no idea who that is. No idea.

I probably should know who that is, but, you know, this isn't exactly your go-to for soccer show. But look, she was incredible. And the part of her that really got to me was the story and then the flawless performance. But, you know, I tried to describe this as best I could last week. I just thought the way she competed in a non-competitive way.

You know, she retired at 16. She came back two years later, and it wasn't about competition. It wasn't about winning medals, et cetera. She just wanted to be an artist on the ice. And I think that, you know, watching her perform in that pressure-packed environment, but really compete in a way that was so flawless but didn't seem to carry, you know, the pressure or the weight of the moment is like something sports psychologists should, you know, do a case study on. I mean, what she did and the way she did it was for so many athletes, like, wow, I can only imagine, you know, the individual, Olympic sport athletes.

When you watch the Olympics, it's like four years they're training for like one three-minute performance. And sometimes it's even faster than that. And it just always seems like the pressure, you know, the weight of the moment is just so heavy. And for her, there she was putting on a performance that skating people say was a performance for the ages. and she didn't seem to be carrying any of the weight that went with it. I thought that that was really like it was pretty cool to watch. But anyway, I promise you, I promise you, Lisa.

My reaction was 100% genuine. I had never heard of her before a few weeks ago. And by the way, you know, most American sports fans had neither. Let's be honest here. I read the other day that her. Instagram followers went from like 300,000 to 7 million overnight. So I don't think I was alone in not knowing who she was. But thank you. This from Squitty. Squitty writes, Kevin, please tell me that you're all in on Stefan Diggs. You loved him in the draft.

You've loved him as an NFL receiver. He's a terp. It's time to bring him. home. So what Squitty is referring to is the news that the Patriots are going to release Stefan Diggs after just one season. Now, the reason appears to be that his salary cap number was going to rise from 10.5 million to 26 and a half million. If he was on the roster by the end of next week, he would have had an additional $6 million of his contract guaranteed. Diggs posted a message on social media, quote, thank you for a hell of a year. We family forever, closed quote. Diggs signed last year a three-year $69 million deal with the Patriots.

And look, he had a hell of a year, man, as that team went from 4 and 13 to the Super Bowl. He had 85 catches for 1,013 yards, four touchdowns. During their postseason run, 14 catches for 110 yards in a touchdown. There are some, you know, situations that he's dealing with right now. You know, there were criminal charges out there. He's facing a felony strangulation charge from an alleged dispute with his personal chef. He pled not guilty to the charges, but there is, I guess, a hearing or maybe even a pretrial event on April 1st. We'll see what happens with him there.

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I actually want to talk about wide receiver here for a moment because I'm going to share some nuggets from somebody that was at the Indy Combine last week and wrote about it. I'll get to that in a moment. As far as Diggs goes, he's 32 years old. I did love him coming out in that draft. I really was a big fan of the skins taking Diggs. And I think we've talked to, you know, McLuhan about Diggs. There were a lot of, you know, concerns. There were red flags all over Diggs, injury-wise and otherwise coming out.

They ended up taking James and Crowder in that draft. But Diggs just had, you know, one hell of a bunch of, career, but also has had, you know, his off-the-field issues. And by the way, you know, eventually Diggs appears to be a guy that, you know, gets a bit old, you know, in Minnesota first, Buffalo, and then just one year in New England. I was kind of happy to see him get to a Super Bowl. And Scott Turner, remember, was on with us a few weeks ago and talked about being the first college coach. He was on the staff at Pitt, and he was the first college coach to offer Stefan Diggs a scholarship when Diggs was at Good Counsel. It was a great story that Scott Turner told. I mean,

just, you know, summing it up, he went to see another player at Good Counsel, was watching the film with this guy that's been at Good Counsel forever. And Stefan Diggs is, you know, performance as, you know, a freshman just kept popping up over and over again. And he thought he was watching the kid that he went to watch. And then the guy that was watching it said, no, no, that's not him. Number 13's him. Number seven is Diggs. And Scott Turner said, well, I want to talk to him.

That's the guy that I want to talk to. And he developed, you know, a long relationship with Diggs over the years. He was the first offered him on the spot. when he met him. But do I want him here? Look, there's a lot of the personal stuff that needs to get figured out. There's a lot of that due diligence that has to be done. You know, we'll see what kind of deal he gets.

But Stefan Diggs, even at 32 years old, would be a nice ad. I mean, look, right now, and I think I mentioned this the other day, and I want to get to this. Right now, Washington basically has two, three receipts. under contract. Terry McClorn for just one more year, you know, realistically, Luke McCaffrey and Jalen Lane. That's it. That's all they have under contract. They've got to make some hay here over the next couple of months at wide receiver. And that brings me to this. So Matthew Barry, I think you guys probably know who Matthew Barry is. He was the fantasy football guy at ESPN for a long period of time. And then I think in the last year or two has been a fantasy football guy and a

reporter for NBC. Well, he was at the Combine over the weekend and he wrote a column on NBCSports.com titled 35 of the most interesting things that I heard or he heard at the 2026 NFL Combine. and he had three of the 35 items were Washington related. Now, let me just mention, I'm pretty sure I'm right about this. Matthew Berry is a huge skins fan, always has been. So he's been, I don't know that I've ever had him on this show, because, you know, over the years, fantasy football was not the thing that I spent a lot of time on, on the radio show in particular.

We would have Charch on. Charch was my radio guest when it came to fantasy football. football and one of my favorite guests. And he was on the show yesterday. If you miss that, he was good talking about Jonathan Grenard and other things. But Matthew Berry, a lifelong, I believe, Skins fan. And here were the three items that he wrote about after the combine. The first one was this.

I'm told the Washington commanders want a thumper. And by that, I mean a true early down star. running back. They felt like once Austin Echler went down last year, the run game struggled. They think Chris Rodriguez is a nice back, but don't like him in the passing game. And they clearly found something in Jacori Kroski Merritt, aka Bill, but think of him as more as a two or a three than a true leadback. My guess is the running back who leads Washington and touches next year isn't currently on their roster. That's interesting. We've obviously talked a lot about running back.

That's his guess. You know, I certainly think it's possible that they take Jeremiah Love at number seven if all of the defensive players are gone. I certainly think it's possible that they sign a running back in free agency. But I also think, you know, it's possible. And I would put this at a third, a third, a third, like a 33% chance of Jeremiah Love, 33% chance of a running back in free agency, and by the way, we'll know about love based on what they do in free agency, or we'll have, you know, we can rule them out if they spend real money on a back in free agency. And I think there's a 33% chance that they don't do much at all,

that Roger, other than, you know, tender Chris Rodriguez as a restricted free agent. And you go with McNichols, resigning him, Kraski Merritt, and Rodriguez. Would I, would I, I like a better running back room? Yes, but I think they've got much bigger fish to fry, many other areas that are priorities. So that was item number one from Matthew Berry. Number two was asking a team source about new offensive coordinator David Blow, I was told to expect the offense to look like a Ben Johnson offense. A lot of motion, play action, strong run game, and some trick plays. Yeah. I mean, the Ben Johnson, the Kevin O'Connell influence are going to be there.

And there's probably going to be some Cliff influence as well. But to me, and I've said this going back to the moment they elevated him, David Blow comes from, you know, Kevin O'Connell, Ben Johnson stock. And those guys are every year among the league leaders in play action pass attempts. And that's what Dan Quinn wants. He wants a run game married with a play action passing game. Play action from the pocket, play action via bootleg. But Washington was 20th in play action pass attempts in 2024 and 27th last year. With David Blowd, they are going to be one of the top five play action teams in the league.

That's my guess. And I think that's where we're going to really be able to, from a quantifiable standpoint, under center snaps would be the other one. But, you know, at the end of 2026, we'll be able to say, what were the big changes and quantify them, play action, pass attempts, and under center snaps will be the two big quantifiable differences. And then this last item from Matthew Berry. I don't expect Debo Samuel to return to the team.

All right. I agree with him. I think I said that on Monday show, I don't think Debo's coming back unless there's no market for him and then maybe, but he's not going to be signed before free agency starts. He's going to be allowed to go test free agency. And I don't think that there is a major desire to pay Debo Samuel for another year. I think they've got, you know, bigger wide receiver needs. Anyway, he writes, I don't expect Debo Samuel to return to the team. And then he writes, the team will look to add to the team.

the wide receiver room with an emphasis on speed, and don't be surprised if 2026 is Terry McCorren's last year with the team. To that end, one source told me that while almost everyone expects Washington, everybody expects Washington to go defense in the first round this year, if the top three edge guys are all gone by number seven, don't be surprised if the commanders take Carnell Tate, closed quote. That from Matthew Berry. So that's what I want to just talk about for a few minutes. So I agree with him on Debo, and I think I talked about that on Monday.

I kind of have a strong, strong hunch that he's not going to be brought back, especially in this first wave of free agency. And I'm sure Debo will get a deal somewhere and be playing somewhere next year. And I don't think it'll be here. But when it comes to the team's going to look to add to the wide receiver room, yeah, I mean, we've all talked about the need for another receiver and really a true, you know, receiver, not, you know, more of a, you know, playmaker or gadget guy like Debo is. I think when he writes, don't be surprised if 2026 is Terry McCorns last year with the team, I do think that for some people that read that, they'll be very surprised. by it. I know that I have spent some time talking about Terry's contract just a little bit since last summer, and I would not be surprised if this is Terry's final year. Terry's contract

was structured in a way that for all intents and purposes, as we talked about when it finally came to light in terms of what the real details were of the contract, this was a one-year contract extension. So he had last year, which was the last year of his last deal. And then this year, and then this coming year will be the one year extension. And for that, he is getting paid $44.6 million guaranteed. So roughly $22 million on average per year. All right, in guaranteed money. But the cap number for him in 2027 goes to $34 million. and then in 2028 to $39 million. He is technically under contract beyond this upcoming season, but there's no more money

and the cap hit is extraordinary. So it was very clear when you got the details of that contract last summer that this was a one-year contract extension unless Terry killed it in 24. end in 26, and they had no choice but to bring him back at that point 32 years old as a dynamic star wide receiver. And I'm sure at that point they would have tried to restructure, et cetera, to get the cap number down and maybe even extend them beyond, you know, the end of the deal. But if he doesn't go out and tear it up this coming season, it's going to be his last season. and even if he does tear it up, entering his age 32 season in 2027, we know how this team feels about, you know, the position and aging analytics. That's why another reason why Steph Diggs may not be in consideration. Somebody, by the way, my radio producer mentioned that somebody had Washington as a potential destination for Mike Evans. Mike Evans is 32 going on 33.

Now, superstar wide receiver, but I don't expect them to pay big money, certainly for anybody that old. But I do think that there's a chance that Terry's going to be playing his final year. Look, he's not a superstar wide receiver. He's never had a superstar season. I mean, he's never had a 187 catches is the most he's ever had in a season. He's 1,100 plus yards. the 13 touchdowns in 24, exceptional. But he's never had a 100 plus, you know, reception year,

1,500 plus yards, you know, double digit touchdowns all in the same year. Now, if he has that in 2026, yeah, maybe. But what it illustrates here and highlights for me is, while we've been talking wide receiver, they have to get wide receivers, plural, because of the possibility that Terry's not going to be back in 2027. Right now, your 2027 wide receivers would be Luke McCaffrey in the final year of his deal, and Jalen Lane.

You know, they're obviously adding to the room, but you're not just, I don't think, looking for that number two receiver to Terry. you're looking for a guy that can be a number one. And so everybody in free agency that we've talked about is on the table. Everybody who may get released or be tradable like Brandon Ayuk is on the table. And Carnell Tate at number seven is on the table for sure. And every other receiver that is out there, you know, when they get to night two where they only have a third round pick. But they've got to add so many pieces.

to this roster. But let's not forget that the move or moves at wide receiver won't be just for this coming season. They have to be for the future as well, because the one true, legitimately really good wide receiver you have may be playing his final year in 2026. All right. There was a big trade in the NFL today. How about the Rams trading picks, including a first rounder this year to the Chiefs for Trent McDuffie? You know, an all-pro corner, man, this reeks of Jalen Ramsey, even though they did that, I think, during the season. They have really, you know, when they go all in, man, they go all in and it starts with a corner.

But they traded the following to Kansas City. Their first rounder this year, number 29 overall, they actually have two first round picks this year, the Rams do, because they traded last year's first round pick to Atlanta, and Atlanta selected James Pierce, the pass rusher, who's now in a big mess legally off the field after a great rookie season. So they still hold Atlanta's number 13 pick overall, but they traded number 29 their own along with a fifth rounder, a sixth rounder, and a 2027 third

rounder for McDuffie, who is a star corner. There's no doubt about that. Trette McDuffie is versatile. He is a phenomenal tackler as a corner. He is a great press corner, man corner. He can do everything. And the Rams are all in once again. I mean, that obviously means that they know that Matt Stafford's coming back, I would certainly assume. They've done basically this every year. Since Sean McVeigh arrived, they have traded a first round pick every single year except for the pick a few years ago where they selected Jared Verse, who's been an outstanding pass rusher.

Rams, look, at the end of this year, I actually thought they were the best team in the league. They lost two heartbreakers to the Seahawks, the one. on Thursday night, that 3837 game late in the season, and then, of course, in the NFC title game 31 to 27. All right, let's get to Zabe. We'll do it right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, I'm addicted to Goldbelly. I've been telling you about it now for a year, maybe a little bit longer.

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since we've had Zabe on the show. He's been doing a bunch of radio for WJFK 1067 The Fan on weekends. Of course, he's got his podcast, the Zabcast. We've got a lot to talk about. And I actually, and I just told you, I was just scrolling through your Twitter. Yeah, your X timeline. And I'm going to start with this one because you and I were talking briefly before we started how much we love Charge, Paul Chartian, who was on the podcast with me yesterday. And you had him on your podcast, it looks like about two weeks ago. And you tweeted out, how realistic a chance is it that AI hacks into the news

nuclear codes and deniolates us all. I'd like to say zero percent chance, but I'm afraid the number is at least a tick above pure zero, but still, but still you said, I've got a good plan just in case. So what's your plan? Well, the plan was, I've got a sturdy schoolboy desk that I saved from Mrs. Heinlein's first grade class, Spring Hill Elementary. And I was reliably told, Kevin that if you hunker underneath that, it will protect you from even a nuclear blast. You're my age. You remember these drills back in the 70s,

early 80s. It was crazy. It's amazing. We're not scarred this generation by this kind of nonsense. Like, okay, we've got to do our nuclear drill. Everybody get under your desk. What was that going to do? It's so true.

Mrs. Kemp, Woodacres, you know, mid-70s, and they were all doing the under the desk drill in case of a nuclear attack by the Russians. And you know, that was, well, exactly, what was that going to do?

What about like all of the remember the shelters and that yellow and that very, very ominous, yellow and black, you know, indication that this is a bunker. This is a nuclear fallout shelter. What was that going to do?

Exactly. I tell people now, whenever this discussion comes up about potential nuclear war. And, you know, for those that say, well, you know, I've done a little bit of prepping. You know, I'm not a total prepper, but I've done a little bit. I always say, hey, if the nuk starts flying, I hope I'm underneath one, literally underneath one. Because trust me, the post-nuclear world is going to be zero fun. Zero stars on Yelp would not recommend.

like it'll be everything the movies about a post-apocalyptic future look like. I'm like, please let it just wipe me out right away. What do you mean? We could do this. I go, when do you think your next tea time will be? Yeah. Post a nuclear event. Just let me know that.

You know, we can't even get the whore influencers out of Dubai right now. Which is a hilarious. Yeah, that's pretty funny. Have you been into any post-apocalyptic? TV shows, like the two that come to mind for me are The Last of Us, which I actually really enjoyed, and Silo, which I did not get to the second season yet, but is very good. Do any of those shows interest you? Because you and I typically enjoy the same kind of television shows and movies. Yeah, I don't watch much television, which will come off as a very pseudo-intellectual flex,

but I can assure you it's not. I'm not an intellectual. I'm not reading books. I will rather go into YouTube and hunt for other content that excites me, including big eight, 12-minute clips of my other favorite shows from back of the day, break in bed, Sopranos, etc. Deadwood, that kind of stuff. Or just dumb things like camera reviews or golf stuff. So I don't really watch TV shows per se. I tried. I watched a good chunk. The last TV show I watched a good chunk of was Yellowstone, and then I kind of lost the plot on that.

got to figure out, wait, what episode did I leave off at? The one before that was Better Call Saul, the prequel to Breaking Bad. I liked that. It was slower, but I've got to pick up and try to figure out, okay, where did I leave this? I do want to watch the whole Game of Thrones prequel, which... I have not watched the prequel. Yeah, I haven't watched it yet. Right, they're all...

I have a ton of Netflix documentaries that are stacking up like Plains Over O'Hare. during a snowstorm that I haven't watched. There's a whole full swing series. It's a lot of stuff out there to watch. So I'm sorry that I cannot speak television. No, you've already mentioned a bunch of them. You know, every time I see one of those lists of like the greatest television shows of all time, I'm like, damn, I miss that one.

Like for me, well, I'll ask you first, what is your biggest miss television-wise that everybody keeps telling you about? Easily, the liar. That's mine too. Oh, my God. Yeah. Well, you know, yeah. So, I mean, obviously, I get it to do it.

Part of it is, I believe the wires started out in standard definition. And that's a bit of a deal breaker for me, you know? Interesting. I don't remember if it did or didn't. I assume you're right. But that Tommy. You go to Brock and ask about this. Yeah, but, you know, it's, I understand it's the gritty nuances of inner city drug dealing

Baltimore and the interplay between the dirty cops and the dirtier cops and the codes of the streets and everything else. What Sopranos did for me was there was so much humor in the goombie of those pizons that even though there was brutal action and scenes that made you go, oh, my God, there was also comedy. I don't know if there's that element in the wire. It seems grittier to me. If I had a dollar for every single time our good friend Tom Levero has said to me over the years,

until you watch the wire, until you've watched the wire, I'm not going to talk to you about Game of Thrones. I mean, he, and by the way, all three of my boys have told me over and over again. Like, they've all watched it. They're like, Dad, that's your biggest, you know, miss. It's right there with Breaking Bad. It's right there with the Sopranos. It's right there with Game of Thrones, all the shows that I love, you know, over the years.

And, yeah, I don't know why I haven't done it. Like, Piki Blinders is another one. I don't know why I haven't done it. It's right up my, you know, alley. Here's the answer, according to Grock. Yes, the wire originally aired in standard definition. It premiered on HBO on June 2nd, 2002, with a four-by-three aspect ratio, the classic square TV format. that it eventually was HBO offered to switch to high definition around season three,

but the producers declined wanting to keep the look uniform. The show then was later re-released, re-released controversially in 2014 with a remaster by HBO, which used extra film negative barrier to make it 16 by 9, but David Simon, the producer, described it as a, quote, alternate version, rather than the intended original, and he shunned it. So the reason the Sopranos doesn't fall under the same category is there was no, you know, there wasn't anything other than standard definition when the show began. So you had a choice.

I believe, well, let's see. The Sopranos started three years earlier. Yeah. So there was. But it, well, okay, so it was delivered in standard death. but the aspect ratio was cinematic. It was 16 by 90s. And it was shot on three.

What do you allow for that? I don't know. You're geekery when it comes to these things. Yeah, it's just... Well, okay. Okay. So, yeah. So it was shot on 35 millimeter film in a widescreen protected format.

Right. The first seasons were actually aired in standard death four by three, but beginning with season three, HBO began airing all new episodes wide. screen and then, of course, if you get the DVDs, it's all. I love it. It's all 16 by 9, but, yeah. I love in your tweet about, you know, nuclear Holocaust, you've got war games as the backdrop

because I love that movie, which I'm going to guess, I'm going to guess, was that like 85, 1985? I'm going to guess it was somewhere around there. And that was when, for a brief moment, Ali Sheedy was actually kind of cute as part of the whole Whoa, whoa. I will not sit here for Ellie Sheetting Splander. You mean briefly? She was kind of cute.

Yeah. Cute as a button for her entire John Hughes run of classic movies, including Breakfast Club, you even. No, the breakfast club was the first time she started to look a bit weathered. And a little bit haggard. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. I think so.

of the John Hughes movies, what was your favorite? And of the John Hughes Rat Pack actors, who was your favorite? That's a completely trick question. The answer is all of them. John Hughes was an artistic gift of the modern age from the gods. And I thank the Lord that he was able to make so many great movies. And I did a deep dive on Home Alone around Christmas time. because it was Hughes who ended up getting that movie.

No, I think it was somebody else who got it because there was a thing. I don't know how it worked out, but John Hughes is brilliant in terms of the stuff that he has directed. He also did planes, trains, automobile. Brilliant. Would be another one, the original vacation, 16 candles. Well, Ferris Bueller's Day off, right? Fridian Pink, Ferris Bueller, some kind of wonderful. she's having a baby, Uncle Buck,

the great outdoors, Christmas vacation, home alone. I mean, come on now. Yeah. I actually always, I always kind of liked Molly.

I always had a thing for Molly Ringwald there for a while. Listen, Molly Ringwald is greater sign Alley Sheedy, but they're still both, I think, the life. Well, I'm glad you went greater. But I got a thing for Redheads. Yeah.

All right. NFL rules changes start to come into the conversation this time of year. We've got a league meeting, I think, at the end of next month, and we saw the competition committee last week at Indy. Were you as surprised as I was that the tush push and the banning of the tush push is essentially dead? it's one of the most low-key not talked about in our business phenomenon that I'm surprised nobody else is more curious about but of course you with a curious and sharp mind are on it like I am to me it blows me away that it was one vote short and nobody even brought it up again this year as if either it was a one-time plant to push the Packers the only two team without an owner who would have to take a lot of shit from other owners, like, oh, you're

trying to legislate our best play out of the game, it was either a plant to push them to just say, okay, nominate it and we know it'll lose, and then we can just watch it down the river, or because the Eagles' proficiency in it slipped, the other owners said, yeah, you know what, don't think we have to worry about this so much, or maybe add this to the mix, it could be all of the above. The fact that other teams have started using their own version with tight ends taking snaps, not worrying about their quarterback getting beat up and being somewhat effective, maybe these teams are like, you know what, we're getting good at our tight end version. We don't want to ban it now. We may have this. What do you think?

Well, let me just say, after week two, when Philadelphia went to Arrowhead in the Super Bowl rematch and used it like three or four times and we had all of the shots of the, you know, defensive offsides, offensive offsides, you know, neutral zone infraction, you know, and everybody said, okay, that is it. I was 100% convinced out of that after that game, which was a hyped week two Super Bowl rematch game that got bogged down with like at one point, I think, three straight push attempts. And I just said, well, they could vote on it today and we'd get those extra two votes easily. That's what I thought as well. And I don't think they got much better at officiating it as the year went on.

They got a little bit better. But at its core, because it's so hair-trigger with everyone on a nice edge ready to fire off to get that little bit of leverage to make the play work, it's, I think, Kevin, a wholly unofficiatable play, period. Full stop. So it sounds to me like you don't want it either, right? You hate this play? No. Oh, I hate it.

I hate it. I hate it, but I also have what I think is a simple and elegant fix because you and I are old enough to remember when you could not assist a runner by pushing. Right. And that has gone by the way side. Here's my civil rule fix. You ready? You cannot push the player who receives the snap. period, that's it.

Every other player, every other runner, you can push them. You take that out of the play, now the tush push has been neutralized. Yeah, I mean. You want a tush push? You want a tush push after a handoff? Go for it. But whoever receives the snap, whether it's a quarterback running back tight end, they cannot be pushed.

Boom. Tush push is over, Kevin. It's finished. Okay, so you, but you want it banned. So we're in the same. What do you think of my... Well, I think that's simplifying what I would suggest and have suggested before, which is... How would you bet?

Well, you cannot push or pull the player with the football behind the line of scrimmage or at the line of scrimmage. That's against the rules. And so it's... Downfield when there's like a runner that's stacked up and here comes a couple big linemen to push the pile, you're fine with us? Well, to be honest with you, when you think about it, I don't, in the last five, six years, we've seen this, you know, oh my God, it's in a scrum, the play's not over, and all of a sudden, here goes this running back who was actually, we think progress was stopped after a three-yard game, but now every big offensive lineman is pushing, pulling, and almost carrying him into the end zone.

And there is a rule that does not allow you to pull a runner. in the field of play, but they just have not, they've not enforced that rule. I don't like that. I actually saw, I think we saw a little bit of pushback to that in that we saw plays get whistled almost too quickly as progress stopped. But with respect to the tush push, the reason I think we got to where we got to, although I still don't understand how we got to this point where they're not even going to vote on it, is what you said.

There is a perception that the play got stopped. finally and people figured out how to stop it. And for some reason, the number of attempts went down as well. The actual numbers are the number of attempts were up this year. The percentage of success... League wide? Yes, league wide. No, league wide.

And it was still Philadelphia and Buffalo leading the way with attempts. But the success rate dropped slightly. It dropped by, I think about, you know, four percentage points, I think it was from 82 something to 77 something. So 5 percentage points. That's not a big drop. No, it wasn't. Yes, then, my theory that the teams had thought that it had been neutralized is not true.

It hasn't. No hell of a weapon. Now, next is this, your favorite thing, because I thought of you when I saw this report last week. I'm sure you've seen it. when Troy Vincent said that of the 171 reviewed plays, whether that be by review or replay assist, all but five they thought were correct. Five they would take back.

And of the five, four of the five that they got wrong, happened in the 1 p.m. window where because of the high number of games going on simultaneously, It makes it harder for the NFL to review plays accurately versus standalone games or four o'clock window games. Assess. Yeah. It's just ridiculous. My stance has been if you want to slow the game down and you want to microscope the game, every frame of every video to make sure you get every call right, then you damn well better never miss.

because the intrusion and the friction on the entertainment product itself is so great. You can't fail. And they failed five times, according to Vincent, I would argue other people could look at 10 more plays and go, Are you sure about this one? But on top of that, three of the plays were the most impactful plays of the season in one of the hotly contested divisions, the AFC North. And it tipped the outcome of the division.

They all went against the Ravens. Right. And there was the unfortunate suspicion of who did benefit. Oh, the Steelers. Oh, who do they have as quarterback? Oh, the legendary Aaron Rogers in what might be his last year. Oh, wow. That sure does smell interesting.

And it's just crap. And they're turning correct calls into wrong calls. And that was the case they admitted in the Isaiah likely three steps down, touchdown. They turned a dead correct call into a wrong call because as they looked at it, their nerds up in New York go, well, yeah, did he make the football move? And I just don't know how, who does this benefit? Who gets excited about this? As a sports fan, do you really want our sports, which are just bread and circuses for the masses, to be done this way? I mean, make the call stand on and move on.

Yeah, well, that's, yeah, you've been losing that battle. years. But you know, you said it, man. And when we're not having games, I don't know about you, but as I get older, the other sports, I love basketball. Don't get me wrong. But when the Terps are terrible, I don't even pay attention as much to college basketball as I usually do. The NBA is a, you know, is a playoff sport only. College basketball is a March sport only. When football season's over and these games are over, man, I'm struggling. I, the rhythm of the rhythm of the football season and being able to sit down with that on television and have it as an option, I don't think they can oversaturate me.

Can they oversaturate you? I mean, it's interesting because it is two different tracks. Look at this. One is from a professional task with talking about stuff that interest people 12 months out of the year. and as that person, no, the NFL always has interesting storylines. Hell, yesterday three of them dropped. One, the Bengals admitted they completely screwed themselves in the Trey Hendrickson handling, gullies. Two is the transition tag on Daniel Jones and Indy, which is weird because it's never been used on a quarterback before,

and they don't use that tag often. And the third one was Dolman, their center retiring at 27 in Chicago. Yeah. The game a bunch of money. Those were like, bam, bam, bam. all three very good interesting stories you can definitely talk about on a podcast on a sports radio show. Are they things, though, that can fill up the entertainment hours at night when you're home from work? I don't quite think so.

So there does need to be games. You don't watch as much college hoops now because the Terps are down. Is it harder for you to watch college hoops because it's become such a shamelessly mercenary endeavor? Not really. I think all of the college sports issues, which I have always thought initially were going to be deterrence for a lot of people, including me. The bottom line is when the games are on, like college football, even though teams are in different conferences, and I don't know where players went during the off season in the portal, when the games begin, man, I'm not enjoying them any less at all. This college basketball season, although I've gotten to it later than usual, has been an exciting one with a lot of freshman players that have played at a high level. And when we get into these March games, I don't think the portal or how much money guys are making. Look, the biggest problem for me has been, I don't in the Big Ten have the same, you know, experience that I had as a

DNA ACC guy my whole life. Think about this, Abe. For somebody like me, you can feel half of it. In the last 11 years, I've lost the ACC for my favorite basketball team, and I've lost the name of my favorite football team. And you are talking about true. It's hard. These are true visceral, emotional attachments that branding

experts will tell you until the cows come home are severing. You know, they're disconnectors. And this is why I get very frustrated with people who don't understand the name issue. I know. I'm glad you said that because I sent out a tweet after the post-nuked sports section. And I said, you know, there's a work shopable theory that I have that had the name of Redskins not been changed to commanders, they might have kept some skeleton of the sports section together. And people, some people just roasted me for that and, you know, boom or take,

whatever. And I replied to those, you know, clapbacks, including from guys who we like and our former colleagues like Mike Callow, Calo just clapped me up one side and the other, Aaron Oster, same thing, like, well, this is a wild take. I just replied with, and this is where that word you just used comes in, I said, well, you either believe in branding or you don't. And if you don't believe in branding, God love you. But guess what? It's a multi-billion dollar industry that is obsessed about by the best brands, what they represent, how do they look, the logos, how it's deployed and everything. What does the brand make you feel? Brand loyalty. And sports teams are no different than tied.

turgent or McDonald's hamburgers. So yeah, that's been a blow we've had to absorb, which sucks. And it sucks from a college basketball standpoint losing the ACC. Now, as far as the money of the commercial craft commercialization of college hoops has gone, I too don't care quite so much about the money that's being thrown around. I just don't like the churn. I don't like that. No, I'm with you.

You don't know where anyone comes from. Like if these guys made the same amount of money, but they stayed put for two or three years, and I could follow them like, hey, last year, Johnson was really good at the point guard for Alabama. And now you're like, he's even better this year. That would give me some sense of place. I agree with that. I agree with, I totally agree with that. I wish that this annual, if not bi-annual, you know, unrestricted free agency could be limited.

And if they're going to commit that there can be multi-year commitments, where you can grow with the players. But I don't know. I think that ship sailed. But back to the branding thing just for a moment. I've gotten to the point where, you know, I've fought this for so long. I'm actually tired, to be honest with you,

of the conversation a little bit. I know what the team feels. I know the struggles they've gone through. You know, people like Aaron, and Aaron's, you know, a close friend and has produced this podcast many times. And I know Calo. I think younger people, you know,

have a slightly different perspective. the bottom line is there's no mistaking that this is still the single biggest business issue that the football team has, that the skins have. And that it's an issue that could be fixed very easily by going back to the old name. I don't think they'll ever do it because I don't think the top 10 corporate sponsors of the league would be in favor of it. And because of that, I don't think the league would allow it. I think that ship is sailed.

I do think a change is better than no change. And I'd go to Washington football team and then just we can call them the skins, we can call them, you know, the burgundy and gold or whatever, and go back to the old uniforms, which they are going to do. I can support that. Yeah. I can support that. I think that change again to some new nickname, no matter how well it tests with focus groups,

it's very dangerous. I do too. You're on your one, two, three. You're in your fourth name now. Yeah. And like that's just too much. And I would think the chances of whatever new name, Red Tails, Comanchee, I wouldn't say Comanches, but Red Tails or whatever, would probably fail.

If you go back to football team and you maybe go to a Cleveland Brownsian helmet that's playing like before, then at least you're landing back on a spot that was a semi-dignified retreat. from the politically correct loss of the original nickname. Yeah, but netting it out, when it comes to branding, you're 100% right. And anybody that's been involved in branding or marketing with any consumer product, and it's exactly analogous to Tide or Coke or anything else NFL teams are,

they will tell you you change something significant. With that brand, it is called emotional detachment, and there's very little to save the lost customers from that, except for winning, winning big, winning for a while, and doing it immediately. And of course, that didn't happen here. All right, let's finish up talking some football, what you think our team here should do in free agency and in the draft.

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This segment of the show is brought to you by MyBooky. If you want to bet on college basketball during the month of March, the place to do it is at mybooky.com or mybooky.ag. And if you choose MyBooky, which I would recommend, choose so because you know it's a really good shop, first of all, fair numbers, fair pricing, etc. Secondly, they're going to give you free money as a listener to this podcast. When you get to MyBooky, use my promo code, DC Reload, D-C-R-E-L-A-D, and My Booky will give you a 50% cash bonus.

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DC Reload. If there's something written in the promo code section, just erase it and type in DC reload at mybooky.com or mybooky. We continue with Zabe. Zave's been doing a bunch of local

radio on JFK on the weekends, 1067, the fans. So you've been following our team again. Tell me what you'd like to see him do in free agency. They've got a lot of needs, as you know, and then give me a sense of what you'd like to see him do at number seven overall when we get to the draft next month. The problem with free agency,

and you and I have lived this for many years, that Danny Boy is spending way too much money for guys, who other teams happily let walk by our free agency is, it is so rare to get bona fide hits in free agency. So you've got to start with that premise. Then there are guys like, I laugh because everyone was all horny for Alec Pierce of the Colts, right? They're like, this guy's a really good wide out. He's kind of undervalued.

I bet we'd get them for a good price. Boom. Colts franchise tag. So they were already ahead of it. You know, the guys who are going to be good, the teams are generally speaking, not going to let them walk out the door unless they're the Bengals and they're idiots. Like they did it with Trey Hendrickson, but Hendrickson's coming off an Achilles injury. and he's also 31 or whatever he is.

So you're not going to get any of really good. The Colts did not franchise tag Alec Pierce. I thought they did. No, they didn't. They were considering it, but I'm pretty sure they didn't. I'm looking at it up right now. Yeah.

No, no tag for him. They use the transition on Daniel Jones. Yeah. But go ahead. Your point is still, yes. Okay, all right, they were going to. They were going to. Okay, so he'll be available.

All right. you know, he's going to cost money and he may or may not be good. So I'm just very skeptical about how much can you improve your team on defense. They've got money to spend. They should spend it. I want no part of Brandon Ayyuk, the fact that there are seemingly back channels that are talking them up because of the Adam Peters connection and he's not really a bad guy, misunderstood what happened with him out there in San Francisco.

I'm like, people. This guy's a bag. He's a bag. He walks like a bag, acts like a bag. I want no part of Brandon Lloyd, 2, electric booleau. The wide receiver's people from San Francisco. Yeah, yeah, right. So that is someone I want no part of.

I would spend, obviously, on defense. Defense has got to be surge, triaged with bodies, talent, free agents, draft picks. I was looking at the cornerback market. Rieck-Wollen is apparently a possibility from Seattle. The tall corner from the Chiefs is on that list. You know, I'm not an NFL personnel guy, so I can't really say I'm super horny for those guys. And as far as pick number seven, it's got to be defense.

It's got to be defense. Is this picture that you just sent me, is that Mrs. Shirkens from Main Street Elementary, or is that Ali Sheedy? Nope. Ali Sheet 2025, I've made sure to send it to you because, you know what? It's so not a good photo. No, it's not. Yeah.

The neck area, I mean, you know, this is unfortunate age, and this is why women spend a lot of money on plastic surgery, when a middle-aged woman's neck starts to fall apart with all the wrinkle and creases. All right. Sorry to distract you on that. Yeah. I'm talking NFL free agents. You're like, oh, my God, what did you just send me? It was distracting, but I was hoping it was Mrs. Shirkens from Main Street Elementary School in 1976

and her telling you to get under your desk. Yes, my take is you should probably spend on defense for what's reasonable, and I want no part of Ayuk, and I think you should draft the best defensive guy on the board at number seven. If you can trade down for extra if somebody is super horny and is going to throw some stuff at you, then yes, I'm not opposed to trading down. But I also believe that the shelf of the real blue chippers in the NFL often falls pretty quick, sometimes even before the 10th or 11th pick in the draft. So I don't, I'm not wild about bouncing out of the top 10 unless you're getting a haul

from somebody. My recent and not so new take just this time of year is, we don't know anything. And that's why I love the games, because at least on Mondays and Tuesdays, we can talk about with some level of certainty, as much as we can, as fans, about what we just watched.

And even to a certain extent, kind of project what we think might happen in the upcoming Sunday game, although that gets blown out of the water every Sunday in the NFL, the team that lost by 20, one week, comes back and wins by 20 the next. But this time of year with the draft, the teams that pay their general managers in front offices, millions and millions of dollars to get this right, are considered successful when they hit on one out of three draft picks.

So they're wronged two-thirds of the time. And then in free agency, my God, like I used the example the other day. I said, imagine somebody told you in August that the number one most sought-after free agent in 2026 March was going to be Malik Willis. We don't know anything about this league, which is what makes it so much fun and the best reality show there is in entertainment. It just is. It's totally unpredictable. And I would not pay Malik Willis $30 million a year. nice guy.

But you're really hoping that you're squinting really hard to go. I see a quarterback one in there. You know, Kevin Palm. Yeah, right. There's another one for you. Yeah. I think one of the things that is one of the most often dismissed,

but very important things in sports, is sample size. Too many people on air and fans dismiss or don't even understand sample size. You look at what Malik Willis did. with a limited number of starts with highly tailored game plans. I mean, these were game plans by LaFleur, who did a great job, by the way, to win a good majority of the games he started and pitch hit for Jordan Love. These are bespoke game plans just for him, Kevin.

And a limited sample size. You have to think, what will Malik Willis look like run out over 17 out of 17 games if he's lucky enough to stay healthy and do that for two or three years and then tell me what do you think he is? Yep. It's just, again, I mean, I don't know if the sample size was too big

or too small for Sam Darnold or for Gino Smith or for Baker Mayfield, but this league, you're never, you can't really be sure, especially from the outside, you know, looking in because the guys on the inside get it wrong so frequently. All right. At Zabcast, at Zabe on X. I know you got to run. That was fun. Appreciate it. Let's do it again soon.

Thank you, Kevin. Steve Zabin, everybody. We'll finish up with Josh Robbins from the Athletic, trying to explain to everybody why Tray Young will make his debut for the Wizards tomorrow night. We'll get to that after these words from a few of our sponsors. If you don't mind and you haven't done it, rate and review this podcast. great for us when we get ratings and reviews. Both Apple and Spotify give you a chance to give this show up to five stars if you think the show deserves it. Apple allows you to write a quick one to two sentence review. That's helpful following the podcast is big time for us as well. Just

hit the plus button or the follow button. Joining me right now is Josh Robbins. We've had Josh on the show many times before. He covers the Wizards for the Athletic at Joshua B Robbins on X. So the last time I had you on, we were talking about the Anthony Davis trade. And the reason for reaching out to you today is that tomorrow night at home against Utah, in a rather important game as it relates to the bottom of the standings, the Wizards are going to trot out Trey Young for the first time since they traded for him back in January. Why do you think they're doing it? That's a great question.

And I'm pausing to figure out how to phrase this. I think it's fair to say that the league's eye is on tanking teams more than it's ever been before because of all of the bad press the league has had over the last month and a half about tanking. And rightly so, I get it. The NBA has to protect the integrity of its product, and there's a large segment of fans. who are fans of winning teams and then go to games and see the opponent not try to win, they have right to be upset. And then there's some fans of these tanking teams that are upset.

I get it. Having said all that, I do wonder how much the NBA's watchful eye has impacted the Wizards in this situation. Let's remember, let me just recap very quickly. Frey Young returned from a sprained MCL in late December. he played several games. His final game with Atlanta Hawks was December 27th. He was said to have suffered a quadriceps contusion in that game. Well, right around that same time, both the Hawks and Young mutually agreed to go try to find him a new team. It was clear that they were going to end their partnership and he was going to get traded. And so you spit him out to try to make sure

you avoid injury. Since he was traded to Washington, the Wizards have used the dual excuse that he's still recovering from the MCL sprain, which he had already played on, and from the quad contusion. At some point, if the NBA is looking down your you're breathing down your neck,

you're going to have to play him. And so I think that that's got to be considered here as a very likely possibility. Let me ask you this. If the NBA deemed that he was healthy enough to play and they weren't playing him, I mean, the fine was a half million dollars for, it was like a half million for Utah, I think, $100,000 for the Pacers about a month and a half ago. The penalty would just be a fine.

It's not going to be a docking of draft choices or anything super serious. At what point does it become okay for a franchise to say, sure, fine us, but we're not risking our draft choice. Another great question. So, Pascal Seacum was held out of a game on February 3rd by the Pacers, along with two other starters. Pascal, as a former All-Stars, was considered a star player under the league's player participation policy.

I believe that both Trey Young and Anthony Davis would qualify under that policy. Now, the Pacers were fined $100,000 for that. infraction. Could the Wizards afford that? Yes. And as you and I have discussed, I think the Wizards are doing the best thing in the long-term interest of their franchise. If they lose as many games as possible from here on out, I recognize how distasteful that sounds. These games are NBA games in name only. I agree with all of that. And I do feel very badly for the fans who have bought tickets and hope for something more for their money. I get it.

But the team is tanking because it is trying to win in the long term, which is really what Wizards fans have wanted ever since John Wall started to implode because of injuries. They have to do their best to tank. Now, I hate to say it, but that is my true belief. and I think that they would not be doing what's best for the long-term interests of their franchise. Yeah. They don't.

Of course. I mean, you actually wrote a really interesting story, which I'm going to get to in a moment, because I want to ask you about Anthony Davis, but that, you know, it's not just NBA GMs and owners, but fans are actually okay with their teams tanking. I am okay with what the Wizards are doing as a lifelong Bullets Wizards fan. I'm totally into what they are doing, and there's no guarantee they're going to come out as Oklahoma City or Detroit or, you know, as a championship contender. But for a franchise like Washington, this was the only way. Now, real quickly, back to, you know, I understand what you're saying about, you know, it was starting to become too obvious.

So that's why Trey Young's playing because it's too obvious that he can play. health-wise. What about Anthony David? That's my opinion. That's my opinion. All right. What about Anthony Davis the rest of the way in that hand? Will he have to play at some point or not? Depends on what the medical reports say, because that's the

whole thing here. The NBA, if a team has a medical excuse backed up by a physician, then the NBA is loath to interject itself. Doesn't mean they won't, but past precedent indicates they're not. In the case of Anthony Davis, when the team issued its written update approximately 12 days ago,

they cited a specific hand specialist, one of the best in North America, by name. And that indicates to me that they have legitimate medical documentation that says that he needs to continue to heal. We're talking about a ligament, I believe, in his left hand within one of the fingers. So that does indicate to me that the wizards have more medical leeway and a legitimate medical documentation that would make AD's return less pressing. And there might come a point, and I'm just, again, speculating here, let's say if he's cleared for full court activities, honor around March 10th. Could the Wizards make a legitimate argument, hey, he hasn't played now for three months, why should we ramp him up so quickly and risk injury?

Right. That's an argument that they could defend. Yeah, that's an argument you can defend even if you're trying to win, you know, and you're somewhere in the middle of the standings. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. You know, last night, Juju Reese, I'm a big Terps fan, Juju Reese for you, Maryland fans, got activated and played the last two nights for the Wizards,

the first two games of his NBA career. His first night, by the way, he fouled out, legitimately fouled out of the game in 28 minutes and was just one of three from the floor for two points. Last night against Orlando in the Wizards loss, he had nine points, eight rebounds, three assists in 33 minutes, and did not foul out. So good for Julian Reese. For you, Terp fans, you know this,

but Julian Reese, a rarity in college basketball in recent years, played all four years at Maryland and really had some very good seasons in college park. But, you know, I bring him up because even with Tray Young back in the lineup, even if, you know, you ended up with AD playing a few games. You can always bring up these guys and say, we're looking at Julian Reese, we're looking at, you know, Jaden Hardy, we're looking at, you know, whoever we're looking at,

we're bringing up and mix those players in with some of your potential star players to ensure that there's nobody on the floor that can consistently guard, you know, Palo Bancaro for 35 minutes. And there's just, I think the Wizards have figured out, there's a lot of ways for teams to tank with, you know, without just withholding injured players who really aren't injured. 100%. I agree that even the greatest players in the game

are limited to a degree by the people they play around. Yeah. Play alongside, I mean. and so you could put Michael Jordan is prime, and if you put four Josh Robbins out there with him against a regular NBA team that's trying to win, well, even Michael Jordan's team is going to lose and lose big.

Now, that's an extraordinarily extreme and ridiculous and absurd example. Okay, I acknowledge that. In Juja Reese's case, and I learned the last 48 hours, that's what actually he prefers. So that's why, yeah. He came from the Raptors 905G League team,

which is a good G-League program, but it goes to show that he's coming into the Wizards with very little familiarity with the Wizards and Go-Go's terminology, which is all the same terminology, it's all the same schemes, and he's out there. He's playing massive amounts of minutes. Anthony Gill, by the way, is legitimately sick. I mean, he's really, he's not feeling well.

He's really sick. So as hard as he plays, and he plays very hard, he wouldn't be, he'd be better if he had had, say, a month or two months with the go-go ahead of this. Right. Having said all that, the one negative that a team would have of having all these two-way guys out there, any 10-day people out there, Juju Reese out there, is that they're fighting for their NBA lives.

Sure. And so, yeah, so they're playing. These players, when they're out there, let's be clear, they're not fumbling all over themselves for the betterment of the franchise's protection of its lottery pick. They're trying to get paid. They're playing hard. I mean, that's, I think, the fallacy of tanking in any sport

is that the players are the ones tanking. No, that's not, you know, you're not putting people out there and they're not trying. It's the players you put out there, the mixture of players you put out there, that management, front office, coaching staff, hope give you the best chance of losing based on the opponent. Yeah, you're a professional talker, and you are much more articulate than I am. That's exactly right. I don't know about that.

Yeah. So I love the story that you wrote because I am a fan that's bought into tanking. And with all of the, you know, the angst around tanking, and there is something off-putting, Josh, big picture about, you know, a quarter of the league isn't trying to win games. You know, they're trying to lose games or whatever the percentage is. It's not really what you want to pitch. It's not what you want to sell, especially when you're battling against, you know, in, a behemoth in the NFL where every game is life and death for everybody involved. With that said, as a fan of the Wizards, I've bought into tanking.

You wrote embracing the tank isn't just for NBA GMs and owners. Fans are buying in two. Tell me what you found. Well, thank you to my editors who came up with that headline because it accurately captures the spirit of the piece. and what the reporting, not just the last few weeks, but months and years have shown that more than ever before, fans of all sports, including the NBA, are more attuned to roster construction than they've ever been. Why that is, well, I guess we could debate. Part of it is fantasy sports, I think.

Sure. And when covering the Wizards last two and three-quarter seasons, I've seen that more and more fans actually would like to see the team lose. Now, develop, play hard, play close games, all that's true, but also lose in order to seek the best draft position. Because in the NBA, and I know this is a circular argument, but it's still accurate in my mind, you've got to have great talent. You've got to have potentially transcendent players in order to win big. and the most direct way to do that is to draft early. It's not the only way to do it,

and the Wizards haven't only attempted this, but if you're drafting number one in a year when a Wenbenyama or a Cooper flag or in Cunningham for sure is available, well, then you set your franchise up for nine years, which is something the Wizards would be desperate to do. And by the way, Sacramento Kings, Brooklyn, Nets, Indiana Pacers, they would love to do the same. Yeah, and even then, there's no guarantee because you've got to be really good

at picking the players once you end up with those very high picks. Yeah, but Philadelphia 76ers are the most abject example of tanking in the last 25. years with their process, that would have worked perfectly if they had drafted better. And if Ben Simmons's career and Markell Fultz's careers hadn't folded because of injuries, so even if the Wizards or whoever gets the number one pick, it's still on them to make the right to pick. And that's part of what has seemingly gone right for them so far. They identified Alex Sar months in advance, and they stuck with him through the rocky months of his rookie year.

They saw something there that not everyone saw. They found Kishon George. They got his trade, his draft rights, he was the 24th pick. Well, he seems to be much better than the 24th pick and what was said to be a bad draft. Will Riley has certain abilities that are far better than where he was picked. So, to their credit, they seem to be identifying talent in a way that they're having fewer misses than the other team. And that's one of the things that's got to go right for that rebuild to go right. And if they get fortunate enough to get the number one pick, they're going to have to lean on that skill set again and then prove in a way that they haven't yet proved that they made the right choice.

By the way, I just looked up Simmons and Fultz, those two drafts. So in 2016, the Sixers with the number one overall pick selected Ben Simmons. With the number three pick, the Boston Celtics selected Jalen Brown. The next year, with the number one pick in the draft, Philadelphia selected Markell Fultz, played at Demath here locally. and then at number three, same spot, Boston took Jason Tatum. That...

Yeah, I covered Fultz in Orlando. Just as an aside, he's one of the nicest people I've ever covered. Yeah. And I'm sorry to interrupt you. No, yeah. I mean, it was interesting because I watched him play in high school, and I remember thinking he's going to be the number one pick in the draft. Really?

But anyway, that's just interesting. Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum and back-to-back drafts, we're two spots earlier at number one overall. The Sixers, you can say there are tribal. Certainly it used to be that way a long time ago, selected two players that did not help them come close to winning a title. Josh, thanks, as always. Really appreciate it.

Pleasure is mine. Thanks for having me. You know, Josh is right about some of the players that they have, you know, acquired during this. tanking period. They may not have so far a top five transcendent player, but everything they've done, the process that they've gone through, the trades that they've made, the picks that they've accumulated, that's all been, I think, very well done, but the players, the young players themselves, they've got some real promise in Alex Sar. They have some real promise in Tray Johnson. I really like what Will Riley is doing this year.

I've liked Kishon George since the moment he started to play. So, yeah, they're getting it right. You know, it's hard to land on the top five superstar. That's the piece that's missing. But the, you know, the number two, number three, supporting cast, you know, group is coming together if they can just land in this next draft. the superstar player.

Now, they made a trade, and next year with a healthy Anthony Davis and a healthy Trey Young, two perennial All-Stars when they've been healthy and played, they could make a big leap in terms of the type of team they are. And, you know, it's very important that they start to contend for the playoffs.

It's very important that they start to play meaningful games. It's the way their young core and the player that gets added to that young core via the draft, it's the best way for them to develop as young players. It's an interesting time for sure. And if you're a Wizards fan, the next few years are going to be very intriguing. Like next year they got a shot to win enough games to be in the postseason.

And if Anthony Davis plays a lot of games, they can potentially be a top four, top five team in the east and a sleepy, you know, sneaky contender, depending on, you know, how Davis and Young fit together. I think there's a chance they could fit very well. They've got to be on the court, though, of course, with Anthony Davis. That's always the question. But an interesting and maybe, maybe an exciting contending future for the Wizards ahead of us. All right.

That's enough on the Wizards, and that's enough for today's show. Tomorrow with Tommy.